Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 August 9

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August 9[edit]

I think someone is vandalising an article[edit]

I've noticed that a user keeps coming back to the Liverpool Gay Quarter article and is changing my edits all the time. I only have an issue with this one user. I made a list of notable lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people from Liverpool and Merseyside with clickable links to their individual wiki pages. The user in question then removed all of the people on the list and stated there were no sources to prove they were LGBT. After explaining that all a user has to do is visit their page to see numerous sources, I then took the liberty of adding sources to the article myself. He has now deleted most of the people again and stated that there were no sources stating these people were from Merseyside. Again, all a user has to do is visit their individual wiki page where the person's place of birth is clearly stated. I suspect this user is vandalising the article, countless of his edits seem to be on gay pages in particular and on his talk page not a lot of people seem happy with his edits. I asked why he could not add sources himself instead of deleting my contributions? Is there a way I can stop this user destroying the genuine encyclopedic information that I'm trying to contribute. He's also added a tag to the article stating the article reads like an advert? The article has been in tact for three years and no-one else seems to have taken this view. Does the opinion of this one user count above all others? Need help please (talk) 02:04, 14 August 2011 (GMT)

How do you rate an article?[edit]

I want to rate this one article, however, it already has a rating (not by me). How do I give it one? I read the articles retaining to rating, yet I cant find instructions. mystery (talk) 02:17, August 8th, 2011 (UTC)

Are you talking about the rating box at the bottom of the article or the rating that is on the talk page for whatever WikiProject has rated it? And it always helps if you tell us what the article is instead of being vague. Dismas|(talk) 02:26, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Im talking about the infamous sport of Parkour. I meant the "Rated X-Class, X-Importance" thing on the talk page. I do, however, thank you about reinforming be about the bottom of the article. Does that contribute to the one on the talk page?mystery (talk) 03:04, August 8th, 2011 (UTC)
Talk page ratings are called "assessments" and instructions for their use are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ. --Jayron32 03:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
No, they are completely separate. As for the talk page ratings...
  • If you're referring to the article being a good article at one point, you can follow the link in the notice to have it reassessed.
  • If you're referring to the France WikiProject rating, you can re-assess the article yourself if you feel it's justified. Their assessment guidelines are here.
  • If you're referring to the Sports WikiProject and their assessment, it's the same as with France and their guidelines are here.
I hope this helped! Dismas|(talk) 03:16, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
The "Rate this page" feature at the bottom of articles is for all readers and unrelated to the WikiProject rating on the talk page. You should usually sign up as member of a WikiProject before rating articles for it. Look for rating information at the WikiProject such as Wikipedia:WikiProject France/Assessment and Template:WikiProject Sports. Click the "Edit" tab at top of the article talk page and set the rating with code like {{WikiProject Sports|class=b|importance=Mid}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:21, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I meant cast a vote (I dont just want to go ahead and change it based on my opinion, is there another way how?) on the Sports WikiProject "(Rated B-class, Mid-importance)". mystery (talk) 03:32, August 8th, 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia has around 3.7 million articles and a WikiProject rating only displayed on a talk page isn't considered important enough to spend time on a vote. Featured and good articles have icons on the article page, and there is a nomination procedure for them. Other ratings are mainly just meant as a tool for the WikiProject members. See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports/Assessment#FAQ. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) No one votes on those talk page assessments. They are determined when an editor, in good faith, reads the article and applies the standards layed out at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ. The ratings are not determined by vote. Please read Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ and look at what each grade means, if you disagree with the ratings of a current article, you may change it yourself, if you can explain on the talk page why you are changing it. But it has nothing to do with voting. --Jayron32 04:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Will it blend, AWB?[edit]

I have been repetitively performing this task, converting:
 {{Foo and parameters}}  
:more junk

To this:

:more junk 
::my junk

Is AWB right for me? I tried to look at the usermanual to figure it out, but it was a bit unclear. Thanks. Cliff (talk) 03:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Why are you taking out section hatnotes templates (see Wikipedia:Hatnote). Because that's what it looks like you are trying to do, from above? These templates are useful in many cases, and shouldn't be removed willy-nilly. --Jayron32 04:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
If you look at his contributions, he is removing {{requested move}}s from user-space draft talk pages and adding a comment to use AFC instead. —teb728 t c 05:35, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Cliff has received an offer of help at Bot requests. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:57, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Vandal editors[edit]

How do one make a complaint about an editor, that is clearly vandalizing the topic by not allowing changes to the article. Imagine that the article state 2+2=5. Obviously this would call for a change, but the editor will not allow this. After much discussion, it has not been possible to have 2+2 be 4 instead of 5. What can be done, if an editor is the vandal, corrupting the data of an article?

Pethol (talk) 08:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

It depends.
In the case of a user changing "2+2=4" to "2+2=5", that would be considered vandalism. Thus, the user could be warned and if they persisted, reported on WP:AIV.
However, most disputes are not so clear-cut, such as, the associations of chinese characters [1]. Note the section in the VANDAL link, regarding What is not vandalism. In that type of case, it is necessary to try and form a consensus through discussion on the talk page. If an agreement cannot be made, there are dispute resolution processes. If any editor does not abide by consensus, or keeps insisting on their preferred version without awaiting agreement, then we're back to warn/block.
If you have a specific concern, see the suggestions on Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Resolving content disputes.
Please note that, in any discussion, you should comment on the content and not comment on other editors (as you did, here).  Chzz  ►  08:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
If the problem is an incompetent editor, then it is not at all wrong to comment on that persons professional ability.... Provided you're in a professional environment, where people welcome criticism in order to be able to correct the errors.
I presented evidence of one of my claims, and my comment with evidence was removed. That means that the editor is not fit to be seated in that position. It should not be wrong for the users to be able to "vote out" a bad editor and get a replacement. The editors are supposed to be there as a service to the users, not as a pain in the butt.
Pethol (talk) 12:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
You seem to misunderstand how things work on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Wing Chun (like all article) does not have one editor; it has over 50, including you. Since none of the editors has any more authority than any other, content is determined by a consensus of editors. If you want to make a change, you need to persuade the other editors to accept it. It does not help you persuade if you throw around false charges of vandalism. Instead argue for your changes persuasively but civilly. —teb728 t c 23:12, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
When you combine your arguments with a personal attack as you did here, you destroy the impact of the arguments. And the post is properly removed because Wikipedia has a policy of No personal attacks. —teb728 t c 23:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I keep getting a message that my article has missing end reference tags, & I need ((reflist)) at the end.[edit]

I proof read my article carefully and each reference is inside the <ref></ref> format. Also, I typed ((reflist)) at the end of my article, but I still get a message that it needs to be typed there. What am I doing wrong? I do not understand. I went to the new users page but it didn't help. I tried live chat, but no text would enter when I tried to type. HELP. ---- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Janetfix (talkcontribs) 08:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The {{reflist}} needs to go at the end of the article, not the beginning. I've moved it; see [2]. For more help with referencing, see WP:REFB.  Chzz  ►  08:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I would add that in its current form, the article is way too promotional and unencyclopedic in tone. It even has a curriculum vitae section -- that is not appropriate for a biographical article. Please take a look at WP:SPAM, WP:RESUME and WP:MOSBIO for further guidance, and the message on your talk page. – ukexpat (talk) 13:57, 9 August 2011 (UTC)





  • Please do not type in ALL CAPITALS, because it sounds like you are shouting. - you should be able to make the text bigger by pressing Ctrl++, or clicking "View, Zoom" or "View", "Text-size", or similar.
(I've written this message in a larger font, to try and help)
  • For printing: On the left of each page, you should see a link to Print/export. Within that, you can choose Printable version, to display a printer-friendly page.
Then, from within your web-browser, you should be able to choose "File", "Print Preview" to see the page layout, to see how many pages would be printed, and you can choose which pages to print.
The exact method depends on your web-browser and operating system, but when you select Print, you should be able to choose "all" or "pages x to y".
If you need further help with anything, please tell us which web-browser you are using (e.g. Internet Explorer, or Firefox, or Safari), and we may be able to give more specific guidance.  Chzz  ►  12:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Why was a subject removed?[edit]

We put together a Wiki on a legendary wrestling coach at our high school (Waterloo West High School, Waterloo, IA). His name is Robert (Bob) Siddens. This was probably done a year or so ago. Now, there is no sign of this information on Wikipedia. We'd like to know why it was removed.

Thank you. Rick Smith — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickalo (talkcontribs) 12:37, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The reason the article was probably deleted is that he did not meet our notability guidelines. I have looked for a previous article with possible names, Robert (Bob) Siddens, Robert Siddens and Bob Siddens but have not found any deleted articles. Do you know the exact name of the article, if so we can give better advice as to what happened. GB fan please review my editing 12:51, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I think I've found it - if you mean this text, which was added to the article Waterloo West High School by JDRick (talk · contribs) on 24 December 2009: [3].
It was removed on 6 July 2010, with this edit.
a) It looks like the text was copied from that website mentioned, which is a copyright violation, b) It had no references - we cannot accept information without reliable sources, c) it did not maintain a neutral point of view.
There was also a picture, File:B. Siddens.jpg - which was deleted 7 days after notifying the user, because it didn't say where it came from (no source)  Chzz  ►  13:53, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Can an admin please open Gabriel Obertan again[edit]

Hi to the Admins, football player Gabriel Obertan has moved to Newcastle United and we now have the sources for it, so can someone please open it again (remove the lock) so we can edit it as its no longer disputed so it is safe to edit it. thank you.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 12:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Unprotected It's best to ask at WP:RFPP rather than the help desk, as that's where the page un/protection admins tend to hang out, but this was a clear case. BencherliteTalk 13:01, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Should I close the RFC?[edit]

Resolved: I will not take any action at the moment. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:41, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I started an RFC at Talk:Galaxy class starship#Should articles on ship classes include ships from video games or novels?. However, it does no longer seem to be listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Unsorted. It was added to that list by RFC bot with this edit. However, the following edit seems to have removed it as 'Maintenance'. So what am I supposed to do now? Should I close the RFC and remove the entries that have only appeared in a single novel or video game? Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 15:00, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

It is listed, but for some bizarre reason, it's under Wikipedia policies and guidelines :-) Can someone fix it?  Chzz  ►  16:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Toshi Yamaguchi, clearly it has been mis-categorized (by the bot); I'm not certain how to fix it but no, please don't close it.
I asked one person online, and also asked the bot owner on User talk:Harej#RFCbot miscat. So, one of those - or someone else - will probably sort it out, in the near future. So, hold on, ちょっと待ってください。
...and, I'm told it has now been fixed, with this edit, thanks to harej (talk · contribs).  Chzz  ►  18:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much to both of you, Chzz and Harej. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 19:41, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

editing the page name[edit]

I need to change the Charles Wedemeyer page to Charles A. Wedemeyer I put {{DISPLAYTITLE:Charles A. Wedemeyer}} at the top of the text, but it did not work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 15:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Our Manual of Style is to use the name that is most widely used. I've created a redirect from Charles A. Wedemeyer - if you have any sources that his middle initial is used more-often than not, then we can move the article. You may want to post those sources (and discuss the move) on the related talk page. Avicennasis @ 16:09, 9 Av 5771 / 9 August 2011 (UTC)
FYI, {{DISPLAYTITLE}} can only change the style of the title; it can't add or remove characters. — Bility (talk) 16:46, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Page view statistics question[edit]

Is there a way I could find the page view statistics of categories of different ratings? For example, if a start class article or a stub is getting 1000 views a day it would be a good candidate for improvement. Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:59, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I do not know of an existing tool to get that, but you could ask on tswiki:Query service; I believe it could be done with a database query.  Chzz  ►  19:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


Hi! I've been working on the List of bog bodies article for around 6 months. There are certain pages that redirect to my article because they were too short, for example Elling Woman redirects to the page, but the section about her is far down on the long list. Is there a way for the redirect to go to the part of the list about the Ellling Woman and several others? --GouramiWatcher (Gulp) 19:01, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Maybe using the {{anchor}} template? – ukexpat (talk) 19:06, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I would use {{Anchored list}} Ryan Vesey Review me! 19:44, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
That won't work in a table tho?  Chzz  ►  20:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Like this, Gourami Watcher. Once you add that, the link List of bog bodies#Elling Woman will work, which means you can do this. Hope that makes sense.  Chzz  ►  20:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Thank You! --GouramiWatcher (Gulp) 14:46, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Help! What to do?[edit]

Eric444 (talk · contribs) David829 (talk · contribs)

I stumbled across a non-notable country music single stub and upon investigating found that these two users appear to be prolific creators of the above (well not just country music but mainly).

Am I the Only One, My First Taste of Texas, Will the Wolf Survive (song), Go Away (Gloria Estefan song) as some examples.

What does one do? Can more experienced editors give some feedback, talk to the users? I just had a quick look, but I'd say there are a ton of this type of non-notable single article being created, we are not talking Thriller (song) or Hey Jude here, are we? CaptainScreebo Parley! 19:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Um, what? I just checked "Am I the Only One" and "My First Taste of Texas", and both of them look like good articles about notable songs. They're both actual singles, and they both charted highly on the Billboard charts. "Am I the Only One" is developing into a pretty decent article. The answer to your question "What to do?" is: Leave these people alone and let them get back to their good work. --Jayron32 19:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Oh well sorry for asking, but I don't think we've read the same guidelines then, or have the same conception of notability. Wikipedia:SINGLE and Wikipedia:NSONGS both state:
"Most songs do not merit an article", "Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, [...] are probably notable", "Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article"
Sorry, but The song is an uptempo about a man who wants to party, but finds that his friends have other interests. In the chorus, the narrator asks, "Am I the only one who wants to have fun tonight?" does not appear to me to be either a) noteworthy or b) the makings of a really good article.
First thing that popped into my head, try searching for Making Plans for Nigel, biggest 80s new wave hit for XTC, it redirects to the album article, although it was an absolute smash and one of the defining records of that period (imho of course). I am only trying to flag up what I see as a blatant disregard for the guidelines, notable songs should be songs that are a reference, charted highly, had an impact, have been covered by many bands/people and so on, but if you take a look at Gloria_Estefan_singles_discography, there is no way that 95% of the singles that have their own article qualify under the notability/verifiable material criteria. CaptainScreebo Parley! 21:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
If one of the articles bother you, start a merger discussion on the article talk page. But editors trying to expand Wikipedia with more verifiable content aren't doing anything wrong. Feel free to improve Wikipedia as well, but given the tone of your opening post here, it looks as though you are just trying to "take down" other good faith editors. Please don't do that. Again, if you are just interested in merging the existing content in these articles into the articles about the albums, start a discussion per Wikipedia:MERGE#Proposing_a_merger. But there's no need to undo the good work of others (see WP:PRESERVE) and there's definately no need to demonize or otherwise call for sanctions against editors doing good work. --Jayron32 23:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
You're misunderstanding WP:NSONG - Although it begins "Most songs do not rise to notability for an independent article, it goes on to say that Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts [..] are probably notable and, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article. Most songs don't get into charts; all four of those did.  Chzz  ►  14:10, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
@Jayron, I just came here to ask for advice about what I genuinely thought was the creation of trivial song articles, I don't think there is any trying to "take down" other good faith editors, now that yourself and Chzz have clarified the guidelines, I am much the wiser. I don't really see where I am trying to demonize anybody or call for sanctions, if I came here it's because I wasn't sure and didn't wanrt to just wade in with my 20-league boots on and say to the people concerned "stop this songcruft at once!" Anyway, thanks for your replies. CaptainScreebo Parley! 14:35, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
The key point is, we'd happily have articles on every piece of music ever, every person, every house, every bus-stop Iff they had "significant coverage in independent, reliable sources".  Chzz  ►  19:23, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Katharine's son?[edit]

The question is in the headline. The R. j. Reynolds family seems to have obliterated any record of J. Edward Johnson and the son she and Johnson had prior to her death. Katharine and Edward Johnson went to New York after they married with the idea that he would learn banking. When the son was born Katharine suffered a setback in her health which led to her death. Since that event the memory and existance of Mr. Johnson and his son has vanished. My curiosity is killing me. What became of them.

The marriage Between Mrs. Reynolds and Mr. Johnson occurred about 1921. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:49, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

P art.png This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Humanities reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link and ask away. You could always try searching Wikipedia for an article related to the topic you want to know more about. I hope this helps.Avicennasis @ 19:51, 9 Av 5771 / 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not perform original research; we only document facts that can be verified in reliable sources. If it isn't on-record, we cannot help.  Chzz  ►  19:57, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

University of Liverpool Logo/Crest[edit]

Somebody has uploaded an old University of Liverpool crest that is no longer used at all (see

I have discussed this on the Talk:University of Liverpool page but nobody can replace it.

Can somebody remove this old crest from the page and put it back to normal with the new logo at the top?

This old crest does not represent the university.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I see that this is being discussed, on Talk:University_of_Liverpool#Crest/Emblem. Therefore, we should await an agreement between editors before actually changing it.  Chzz  ►  19:59, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Error: no |title= specified when using Cite web[edit]


Does anyone have an idea what this error means? It rears its ugly head in Aaron Avshalomov. The two instances it links to are both just simply "<ref name=ACA/>"; I can't see anything wrong with that. I also checked surrounding references for any mising slashes, but I didn't see any. — Sebastian 20:24, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

It was at "<ref name=Naxos>" and it meant excatly what it said. I have fixed it [4] by adding the missing |title=. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! — Sebastian 20:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Registered accounts, IPs and Checkuser[edit]

If a checkuser has the IP of a blocked account, even though the account that is blocked is registered, can checkuser find other named accounts (assuming the same IP) that may be being used to get around a block? Bielle (talk) 21:16, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes they can, and they commonly do. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:21, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Useful to know. Thank you. Bielle (talk) 21:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

article about Mike Hudock Jr.[edit]

Mike Hudock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

My name is Julie Hudock I am the daughter of Mike Hudock Jr. and I wanted to let you know that you have his date of birth wrong. His correct date is September 29, 1934. My family and I would appreciate a correction in this matter.

Thank you,

Julie Hudock — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:39, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Jayron32 22:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Multiple edits at one time[edit]

I have about seven edits in a row I want to remove; I know exactly the day, time and place I need to be if I can just make these edits.Please give tell me how this is done so I can restore the page. I have tried making the edits manually and nothing happens. This is critically important to a grade for a class and would appreciate a response as soon as possible — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhr12 (talkcontribs) 21:47, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Go to the article's history page and find the version you like, then edit it and save the page. Voilà, you've just reverted to an earlier version. Hope that helps, — Bility (talk) 21:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Tool that ranks top contributors to a specific article[edit]

Quick question: what is the tool that ranks the top contributors to a given article? I remember seeing it somewhere a while ago. Zagalejo^^^ 22:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

wikidashboard. Avicennasis @ 22:28, 9 Av 5771 / 9 August 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) If it exists, you can probably find it at Wikipedia:Tools. --Jayron32 22:31, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! Zagalejo^^^ 22:34, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
You might want to look at this, You can put any article in that you want. GB fan please review my editing 23:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I think the best way is to go to the history of the article, then go to either "Revision History Statistics" (my favorite) or "contributors"
Here is an example route for Google
PageHistoryRevision History Statistics or contributors
I hope this helps. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. I never even noticed those history page features before. Zagalejo^^^ 03:28, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation redirect title question[edit]

How do I title a redirect to Stoke-on-Trent (UK Parliament constituency)? Stoke-on-Trent (UK Parliament constituency) (disambiguation)? Stoke-on-Trent (UK Parliament constituency disambiguation)? UK Parliament constituency of Stoke-on-Trent (disambiguation)? I ask, because I think the link on Official names of United Kingdom Parliamentary constituencies in England N-Z should go to the disambiguation page, and usually I'd do it through the redirect, except it doesn't appear to have one. Or should I just use the Stoke on Trent (UK Parliament constituency) redirect? — Bility (talk) 23:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll go with the simplest: Stoke-on-Trent (disambiguation), redirect Stoke-on-Trent (UK Parliament constituency) (and permutations thereof) to the dab page, put an {{Other uses}} hatnote on Stoke-on-Trent (and include it in the dab page). Basically, forget about making it specifically for UK Parliament constituencies. Instead make it a dab page on all usages of Stoke-on-Trent, that means including Stoke-on-Trent Garden Festival, Stoke-on-Trent College, etc. The parliament constituencies can be included in a subsection on the same dab page.
Least common denominator.-- Obsidin Soul 00:35, 10 August 2011 (UTC)