Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

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This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.

A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.

Uttarakhand tunnel
Uttarakhand tunnel

How to nominate an item[edit]

In order to suggest a candidate:

  • Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated).
    • Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process.
  • Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4 header (====) when doing so.
    • Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb should be written in simple present tense.
    • Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of posting.
  • Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN note}} to the corresponding article's talk page.

Purge this page to update the cache

There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN.

Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template.

Headers[edit]

  • Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with (Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer active.
  • Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the header.

Voicing an opinion on an item[edit]

  • Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do...[edit]

  1. Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
  2. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. Maybe the previous reviewer has missed a problem, or an identified problem has now been fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes may also help administrators identify items that are ready for promotion to the ITN template on MainPage.
  3. Point out problematic areas in the nominated article and, if appropriate, suggest how to fix them. If you know exactly what to do, by all means, go ahead and fix it as you see fit.

Please do not...[edit]

  1. Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead, explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.
  2. Oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is generally unproductive.
  3. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN.
  4. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
  5. Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page.
  6. Use the discussion section of an item as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome of a nomination and are potentially disruptive.

Suggesting updates[edit]

A posted ITNC item that needs correcting can be addressed in two ways:

  • Simple updates, such as updated death tolls in a disaster, linking issues, spelling or grammar corrections, or otherwise anything that does not change the intent of the blurb should be discussed at WP:ERRORS in the ITN section.
  • More complex updates that involve a major change in the blurb's intent should be discussed as part of the current ITNC nomination.
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Archives[edit]

November 30[edit]


November 29[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

  • The 15th-century painting Madonna delle Grazie by Sandro Botticelli, which was believed to be missing, and which had an estimated value of €100 million, is recovered from a residence near Naples, Italy. (The Guardian)

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports


(Pulled) RD/blurb: Henry Kissinger[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Henry Kissinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  American statesman Henry Kissinger dies at age 100. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former U.S. secretary of state Henry Kissinger dies at age 100.
News source(s): WaPo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Been waiting for this day. Davey2116 (talk) 01:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

now now, this is still Wikipedia let’s not turn ITN/C in to a place where we celebrate somebody’s death. We can do that in the privacy of our own homes. nableezy - 01:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No it's not. He was 100! His death is no surprise at all!! HiLo48 (talk) 02:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • OMD He was 100. The update is currently four words and two numbers long, so mentioning this would bring it to five and three. Should be "29", too, not "29th". InedibleHulk (talk) 01:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Longer than the blurb now, but still, a big name like this in RD speaks for itself. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Blurb - An exceptionally influential and well-known figure. But oppose the currently proposed blurb. "Statesman" is not a neutral term. It implies a level of renown and respect. Kissinger is, to say the least, a controversial and infamous figure in contemporary American politics.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 01:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Not a head of state, not a head of government, so not sufficiently notable. This is exactly the type of death for whom a Recent Death entry is sufficient. Chrisclear (talk) 02:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • We post individuals who were considered at the top of their field, not just at the top of their country. Kissinger was, for better or for worse, one of the most powerful and effective figures in geopolitics.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 02:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What evidence do you have that he was "one of the most powerful and effective figures in geopolitics"? Chrisclear (talk) 02:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I defer to the biographical article proposed for a blurb. The lede contains multiple sentences noting that Kissinger held a very prominent role in the foreign policy of the United States during his tenure and as such became regarded as a highly effective and influential secretary of state, with some even regarding him as the most effective in the last half-century. I can think of few other geopoliticians whose decisions had so much sway over a nation's foreign policy, and whose ideas continued to influence future leaders even after his time in government came to an end. I'll even go as far as to say this isn't necessarily an Ameri-centric blurb — how many nations' histories have been touched by his decisions?  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 02:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alt blurb. Maybe American-centric, but hugely notable and controversial. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 02:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Hold on Let's not let ourselves be carried away by emotions. There are unsourced paragraphs and lines. I will support the blurb once this has been resolved; this is the time before a politician who is not HoS or HoG. His work in diplomacy did change the Latin American heads of state, without a doubt… _-_Alsor (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Support blurb Support alt blurb Internationally known US diplomat whose name is likely more well-known than that of many US presidents abroad. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 02:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support blurb obviously not for most secretaries of state, but a remarkably important figure. Eddie891 Talk Work 02:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support blurb - obviously one of the most influential and well-known figures of the late 20th century; definitely a leader in his field until today. — Knightoftheswords 02:08, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, he is certainly notable but not at that level. Otherwise Charlie Munger should probably get a blurb too. - Indefensible (talk) 02:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Charlie Munger is an obviously different case. I mean for god's sake he's being called America's most famous diplomat, as someone who fundamentally transformed Cold War history, America's most notorious war criminal, etc. ~ F4U (talkthey/it) 02:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Kissinger was a colossal figure in American diplomatic history and a giant on the world stage during the cold war. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:39, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    You're comparing Kissinger to Charlie Munger? I'm...kind of speechless. Maybe it's because I lived through the 70s? Valereee (talk) 02:50, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb Kissinger was one of the most important and influential figures of the twentieth century. CJ-Moki (talk) 02:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support either blurb. Kissinger is one of the most (in)famous people of the twentieth century. As Tom Lehrer said, "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel peace prize." --RockstoneSend me a message! 02:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb. Huge global story, currently atop of the homepages of Le Monde, Der Spiegel, El Pais. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong Support Highly influential and infamous. The world should know about this wonderful news in whatever form is most appropriate, a RD and/or blurb.Zombie Philosopher (talk) 02:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb Large and very notable. -- LemonSlushie 🍋 (talk) (edits) 02:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak Oppose solely on article quality. A few too many gaps in referencing. Strongly Support Blurb on merits. Kissinger was one of the giants of the Cold War. His death probably marks the passing of the last great figure of that era. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support alt blurb as per what others have said above. Alt blurb is a bit more descriptive and neutral than OG blurb. For five more minutes...it's just a single vice 02:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support- His legacy was important in US geopolitics during the Cold War. In addition, his death was recent so it would make sense to be in the news. Rager7 (talk) 02:39, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support, obviously. BilledMammal (talk) 02:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support blurb or alt blurb. Hate him or love him, he was immensely important on a world scale. Valereee (talk) 02:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb, per those above. BD2412 T 02:50, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on quality Support !votes without addressing quality need to be ignored before even considering a blurb. --Masem (t) 02:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Looking at the article I don't see any quality issues so significant that they would prevent the posting of this blurb; while quality is important, it doesn't need to be perfect, and the more significant the topic the further it can be from perfect to still be appropriate to post. BilledMammal (talk) 02:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      There are "citation needed" and at least one unsourced paragraphs. Those are dead stops if we are considering a blurb. We do not sacrifice quality to rush something like this to post. Masem (t) 02:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      Given the length of the article, the number of "citation needed" tags appears to be appropriate per WP:ITNQUALITY, and I'm not seeing any entire sections that lack sources or red/orange tags. BilledMammal (talk) 03:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb one of the most influential persons of the 20th century. --TheDutchViewer (talk) 02:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • No blurb A major person. That's why he has a lovely big article. But his significant actions were all many decades ago. Nothing new to be said. And we must obviously ignore every comment that effectively says he obviously deserves a blurb. That's NOT an argument! HiLo48 (talk) 02:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
By that logic, Nelson Mandela and Margaret Thatcher would not have been blurbed. starship.paint (RUN) 03:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kissinger was never a leader of a country. HiLo48 (talk) 03:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Pelé was never a leader of a country either, we blurbed him. starship.paint (RUN) 03:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
People really shouldn't live this long after their career ends. Valereee (talk) 03:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You'll need to bring that up to God. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
God's got a lot of explaining to do, in my book. Valereee (talk) 03:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support blurb obviously, current cover of NYTimes 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 ☎️ 📄 02:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb One of the most influential foreign policy leaders, controversial figure who remained active until the end and arguably the top of his field in terms of foreign policy. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb once quality is fixed. One of the top diplomats ever, influential internationally. starship.paint (RUN) 03:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb - widely notable and consequential figure, and not just for the US. ULPS (talkcontribs) 03:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted alt blurb per strong consensus above. WP:ITNQUALITY appears to be minimally met. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Pull article is NOT ready. There was no rush. We have to look at the quality issues, not just the notoriety! _-_Alsor (talk) 03:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Pulled >10 CN tags, including contentious material in a BLP. SpencerT•C 03:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Spencer: It's not a BLP; WP:BDP only applies if there is an editorial consensus for it to apply. Further, I'm not seeing any consensus here to pull; can you explain why you see such a consensus? BilledMammal (talk) 03:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Spencer: I strongly object to your reversal, which was done in contravention of a clear consensus above. My read of that consensus is that editors were unconcerned with the approximately 5% of the article's words being uncited, and ITNQUALITY states that a few citation needed tags do not disqualify an article from being blurbed. Ed [talk] [OMT] 03:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    +1 Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 03:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Was it really so expensive to wait a few hours to finish fixing the quality of Kissinger’s article? We are not going to make exceptions. _-_Alsor (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    We don't need to make exceptions; WP:ITNQUALITY allows for a few Citation Needed tags. BilledMammal (talk) 03:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    No need to keep this from the front page over a few cn tags. None of the uncited material is contentious. Thriley (talk) 03:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Uh... Kissinger would play a key role in bombing Cambodia to disrupt raids into South Vietnam from Cambodia, as well as the 1970 Cambodian campaign and subsequent widespread bombing of Khmer Rouge targets in Cambodia.[citation needed] The pull was just. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      I wouldn't call that contentious, given Kissenger's position and broader positions. BilledMammal (talk) 03:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      Citation policy no longer functions in this way. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:50, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb once tags are handled. Highly prominent in world affairs and atrongly polarizing. DrewieStewie (talk) 03:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb once CN tags are fixed per all above. Kanyewestlover999 (talk) 03:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on Quality. Yes, the portion of Kissinger's article that is uncited isn't massive, but it's enough, IMO, that deserves note. No rush here. It's not like we need to post his death imminently. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support alt blurb once quality is resolved. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Sticky Vicky[edit]

Article: Sticky Vicky (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): LadBible Joe
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

NAEGABYEONHAE (talk) 12:49, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support The article looks fine. The nomination could use some credits for the editors who worked on it but that’s not a show-stopper. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support No big problems and no longer three minutely glaring ones; the show must go on. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 28[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime


RD: James Douglas-Hamilton, Baron Selkirk of Douglas[edit]

Article: James Douglas-Hamilton, Baron Selkirk of Douglas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Scottish politician. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 19:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Mali (elephant)[edit]

Article: Mali (elephant) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rappler
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

KTerPalmers (talk) 01:57, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support i see no quality issues. JM (talk) 03:24, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose A lot of the content is completely unsourced. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support I checked out the "only elephant in the Philippines" claim and it seems sound. There was another popular elephant, Goyo, owned by Rafael Roces which was donated to the Mehan Garden but it died during the Second World War. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Charlie Munger[edit]

Article: Charlie Munger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 21:12, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support Article looks good. Davey2116 (talk) 22:03, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - article is missing a couple of references currently but seems to meet requirements overall. - Indefensible (talk) 22:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support "Of all the deadly sins, the dumbest is envy. It's the only one you can't have any fun with." Charlie Munger -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:45, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support article looks good and Munger was a very prominent figure. —Panamitsu (talk) 22:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support . Count Iblis (talk) 23:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Hold on there’s (only) two cn tags. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    i thought 1 or 2 CN tags was fine for RD JM (talk) 01:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Agreed. The overall quality of the article is solid. The two CN tags are not attached to especially controversial claims. If someone can fix them that would be good. But the article is in better shape than most we see nominated here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yes, you’re right. But I prefer to see articles posted without any cn tags especially when the few that remain seem to be easily fixable (personal preference, of course). _-_Alsor (talk) 14:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Support I fixed one tag but can't associate Munger's saying with the specific quote without viplolating WP:SYNTH. I don't think there's an easy-to-find source. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 17:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support per above JM (talk) 01:22, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) India tunnel collapse rescue[edit]

Proposed image
Article: 2023 Uttarakhand tunnel rescue (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ All 41 workers who were trapped in the under construction Silkyara-Barkot tunnel are rescued after 17 days. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After 17 days trapped in a collapsed tunnel in Uttarkashi, all 41 workers are rescued.
News source(s): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/28/indian-rescuers-reach-41-men-trapped-in-tunnel
Credits:

Article updated
  • Support some good news Fdfexoex (talk) 15:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Article looks good and this is making some headlines. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. But as per e.g. Tham Luang cave rescue, should the title be changed to 2023 Uttarakhand tunnel rescue? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. Not crazy about the phrasing of either blurb, but I would take Martin's suggestion either way. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support preferably altblurb, article looks good. Maybe include the rescue operation name? mike_gigs talkcontribs 17:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Some very minor copyediting needed, but article overall seems good enough for ITN. Would prefer a different blurb, though - the wording feels off with the current two. The Kip 19:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support - Wow! Absolutely incredible story, definitely deserves to go up! Change of pace from the usual depressing news stream PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 27[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


NZ New PM[edit]

Proposed image
Articles: Christopher Luxon (talk · history · tag) and Sixth National Government of New Zealand (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Christopher Luxon becomes Prime Minister of New Zealand after forming a coalition government. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In New Zealand, Christopher Luxon is elected prime minister after his New Zealand National Party wins a majority of seats in New Zealand Parliament. Factually inaccurate.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In New Zealand, Christopher Luxon becomes the country's prime minister after the New Zealand National Party forms a coalition with 2 other parties in the New Zealand Parliament.
News source(s): AP News Radio New Zeland New Zealand Hearld
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Kiwiz1338 (talk) 00:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support - granted, this is skimming through due to limited time, but I don't see any unsourced sections. Oppose - already posted election, there's a longstanding consensus against posting inaugural type of events. — Knightoftheswords 15:29, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • I think that the election was posted, we don't normally post the mere assumption of office. 331dot (talk) 15:35, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • ITNR election was posted, we do not blurb formalities of their aftermath. Gotitbro (talk) 16:21, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Forming the coalition was not a formality. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:27, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    It kinda was, as it was known after the election who National was going to have to partner with. That they now crossed the T's and dotted the I's is a formality. 331dot (talk) 20:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    With Spain and the Netherlands there is/was much less certainty about what the coalition will be. 331dot (talk) 20:36, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We posted both the Italian election and Meloni's government formation earlier this year, so it is not a "we do not" situation, but rather a "is this an appropriate case to double-post" situation. Curbon7 (talk) 22:17, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Needs work Work done This is WP:ITN/R because he had to form a coalition to become PM – see recent discussions about Spain and Netherlands. But the target article needs work to explain the coalition. For example, the big news which the BBC is highlighting is reversal of the policy of banning tobacco as "...National's partners in the governing coalition- the populist New Zealand First and libertarian Act - had been "insistent" on reversing the laws. Despite election victory, the centre-right National party has struggled for weeks in policy negotiations to form a government with the two minor parties." Andrew🐉(talk) 16:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per Gotitbro. The Kip 18:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Good work has been done by Andykatib and others, creating a substantial and detailed article about the new coalition government. I have added this to the nomination which looks good to go now. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:27, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment We don't "elect" a prime minister in New Zealand and therefore, the altblurb is wrong. What happens is that the leader of the largest party that is part of the governing coalition becomes prime minister by convention, and that is not necessarily the leader of the party with the most votes (as was the case after the 2017 New Zealand general election). Schwede66 21:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    i just copied the Jacinda Ardern one that got onto the news. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 00:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    And to be fair, I did not write the altblurb. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 00:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose this is not even ITN/R since the election was covered. And also like Schwede66 says the altblurb is factually incorrect, the PM is appointed by the governor-general, not elected by anyone. JM (talk) 22:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The choosing of the PM can be posted outside of the election, but there was no doubt here that Luxon would be the PM. In the case of some other countries elections, it was not at all clear who the PM would be at first(Spain and now the Netherlands) 331dot (talk) 22:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I wonder in gov't systems where the Prime Minister is selected by a coalition or majority of the elected Parliament at some point after the general election to elect those Parliament members, that the ITNR should be the selection of the PM, and not the results of the general election. I am sure that a near majority of the time, the likely PM can be predicated off the results of the general election, but if there is this official process of the second election/vote getting to actually being named PM, that seems the more significant result. Masem (t) 01:15, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose -the election was already posted, so it's incorrect to post that this is ITN/R. --RockstoneSend me a message! 00:39, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment FYI I didn't write the alt blurb, and it isn't factually correct either so whoever added it, wasn't me. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per above, election was already posted. Ornithoptera (talk) 02:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. I don't think there is anything objectionable about posting a government formation, even if we had the election. Assuming the formation of a coalition government feels very CRYSTAL to me. Granted, I see SNOW falling already on this nom. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. The coalition article is worth showcasing. Moscow Mule (talk) 02:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support We just posted the same story recently in regards to Spain, so I see no reason not to post this one either. The article appears to be good as well. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 03:12, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Basically because the person who won the elections and the person who became PM are not the same. The political context in Spain is far from being comparable to that of NZ. _-_Alsor (talk) 04:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Also due to the surrounding internal strife in Spain as well. 86.188.230.178 (talk) 11:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    In Spain the second place party made a deal with Catalan parties to stay in power even though they did not win the election. It was not at all clear that would occur beforehand. 331dot (talk) 11:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Considering it took a month for this coalition to form, one could also say "it was not at all clear" what would happen in New Zealand either. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:26, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    It took a month to agree on the particulars(such as agreeing to end the cigarette ban even though National did not campaign on that), but there was little doubt those were going to be the partners or that Luxon was going to be the PM, as the alternative would probably have been a new election. 331dot (talk) 17:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak support - Only because we already posted the election, but I think this is notable enough in of itself to slap on the front page. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak support for the topic on the basis of notability and good article quality. Oppose altblurb since it's incorrect: the National party didn't win a majority of seats; they formed a coalition with two other parties. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:47, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Added altblurb 2 which is just altblurb but correct. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 16:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    No, it’s incorrect! We do not elect a prime minister. That position is appointed by the governor general. Schwede66 16:39, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Maybe make it …becomes prime minister? Aaron Liu (talk) 18:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    You would either say "appointed" or "sworn in". The former is what the GG does, and the latter is what happens during the formal process. Schwede66 18:47, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Jalapeño Would you like to change it? Aaron Liu (talk) 18:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yes. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 19:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Done. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 19:15, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per JM. The elections have already been covered and there are no changes. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose- As consensus states, the election already occurred hence it's no longer a current event. Rager7 (talk) 00:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The election isn't a current event, but the forming of the government is. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 05:16, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The ITN/R event is that Luxon has become PM, which is a separate entry there. We did not report him becoming PM in the election blurb which just said "The National Party, led by Christopher Luxon, wins the most seats in the New Zealand general election." Now the other shoe has dropped and we have more news to report. Now that the shape of his government is settled, it's generating headlines and we have a detailed article which explains it. That article did not exist at the time of the election. "That was then but this is now." Andrew🐉(talk) 12:20, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. ITNR and article quality is sufficient. Luxon did not win an outright majority of seats in the election, so this is not just a formality. Also, the election was last month. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 15:42, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Jean Knight[edit]

Article: Jean Knight (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, People, The Guardian
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
R&B and soul singer from New Orleans, Louisiana, best known for her 1971 hit single, "Mr. Big Stuff" on Stax Records. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose: Orange needs more references tag, which I agree with Aaron Liu (talk) 14:57, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose Valid orange maintenance template. Article needs more references. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 07:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 26[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Sports


(Posted) RD: Geordie Walker[edit]

Article: Geordie Walker (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NME
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Freetown attacks[edit]

Article: 2023 Freetown attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sierra Leone declares a nationwide curfew after attacks on military facilities in Freetown. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Sierra Leone's capital Freetown, militants attack barracks and a prison.
News source(s): Reuters, The Guardian, France 24
Credits:

Still a Start-class article, hoping to bring a bit of attention to help bring it up to ITN quality. Very recent development, possible attempted coup, identity of the group responsible still unknown. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 18:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Oppose for now, due to the lack of info about it. We don't know who the attackers are, how many of them there are, how many prisoners they released, nor how many casualties there are. X2023X (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Wait due to lack of info and stub state of article. The Kip 20:47, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Wait until it becomes clearer what happened. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 21:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support on notability, but wait for more information becomes known. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 07:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support on notability but more info is needed - consider this a full support when its considered to have enough info JM (talk) 07:30, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Wait - From what I'm seeing nobody knows what on Earth is actually going on here. Coup d'tat, terrorists. Completely unknown at this point. We can't post something like this when we have so little information PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:15, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Pulled) 2023 MotoGP World Championship[edit]

Proposed image
Article: 2023 MotoGP World Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorcycle racing, Francesco Bagnaia wins the MotoGP World Championship. (Post)
News source(s): Autosport
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Acticle waiting for updates. Unnamelessness (talk) 14:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In the fourth series in Spain, Bagnaia won the sprint race, then in the main race despite the drama of the red flag on the first lap due to an incident that occurred between Miguel Oliveira and Fabio Quartararo, finally from the race that was repeated Bagnaia won his second victory at this season. Followed by Brad Binder and Jack Miller.
Further examples abound ("Bagnaia made a mistake that crash in the gravel trap"). This isn't main page quality. Moscow Mule (talk) 15:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Pull - I agree with the comment above. One of the ITN criteria for article quality is that the article should be "well written with clear prose". The season summary is well-written in places but not everywhere - the section about the Australian race is still in the future tense, and from the Qatar race - "The next round is in Qatar, Luca Marini secured seconds career pole positions with all new time lap record at this track.". This isn't suitable quality for an article linked from the main page, sorry. There is excessive linking too - e.g. Jorge Martin is linked 11 times in the season summary section. Bcp67 (talk) 16:10, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Pulled – please ping me when the quality issues have been resolved (but I'll be out of coverage for half a day, so someone else needs to reinstate this if it gets resolved quickly). Schwede66 18:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support now @Schwede66:. The season summary looks a lot better, credit to User:Grdijk for their work on it. --Bcp67 (talk) 20:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comments. Excellent work by Grdijk on the summary prose. But per Bcp67 a lot of the names are still linked repeatedly. And the article is still largely impenetrable to the uninitiated: compare the introductory sentence here with other blurbs currently up:
The 2023 FIM MotoGP World Championship was the premier class of the 75th FIM Road Racing World Championship season.
The 2023 ICC Men's Cricket World Cup was the 13th edition of the Cricket World Cup, a quadrennial One Day International (ODI) cricket tournament contested by men's national teams and organised by the International Cricket Council (ICC)
The 2023 Booker Prize is an annual literary award given for the best English-language novel of the year published in either the United Kingdom or Ireland.
I'd like to see a mention of the vehicles involved, or some useful links, at the very least. What exactly is going on here? A bit more context.
The Calendar section tells me this is a competition that takes place in various places across the world over a number of months. That should be explained at the start of the Season summary, too. And some of the 20 races listed don't get a mention in the summary, which smacks of over-reliance on the tables. The first sentence draws a distinction between the "sprint race" and the "main race" (with the former an innovation, as we learn later) but doesn't explain that distinction. The article as it stands still assumes too much on the part of the reader: What does a "red-flagged race" entail? And "the black flag with orange disk"? What is "P2"? (Link or explain, please.) And tonally: does this read like an encyclopedia article or motorsports journalism? ("Legendary", in particular, is listed on MOS:Words to watch.) Moscow Mule (talk) 21:15, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You are requesting details of a kind that would never be included in an article on F1 motor racing, Word Cup Football, or the Superbowl. If people want details like that, they can click on links to find out. HiLo48 (talk) 00:13, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are no links to click on to find out. "The 2023 FIM MotoGP World Championship was the premier class of the 75th FIM Road Racing World Championship season": nothing other than the expansion of the acronym for FIM. Compare it to the introductory sentence of the Cricket World Cup article. 2023 MotoGP World Championship doesn't even have a link to motorcycles in general, let alone the specific class of motorcycle that's eligible to compete. Moscow Mule (talk) 00:24, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK< so it needs links, but I still believe you're asking for details that the fans already know. I can assure you that when I see articles about some American sports, I often have no idea what some of the terms mean, but I don't complain, because I know that fans do. HiLo48 (talk) 00:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I normally don't look at sports articles, but are they really meant for fans only? No casual/curious readers allowed? Because elsewhere (eg. Milei and the Argentine election) we explain the electoral system, the structure of parliament/congress, the rules governing presidential terms & eligibility, the parties' ideological leanings, immediate historical background, etc., etc., etc. And anything opaque or potentially so (ballotage system, d'Hondt method) is linked or glossed. Nothing is assumed: even 2024 United States presidential election tells us "Voters will elect a president and vice president for a term of four years" -- well, duh. And no one would assert an article like either of those is for fans of elections and politics (or of South and North America) only. Moscow Mule (talk) 01:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
WP:TECHNICAL: Wikipedia articles should be written for the widest possible general audience. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) Karachi mall fire[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.



Article: 2023 Karachi mall fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 11 people have been killed and 35 injured in a fire at a shopping mall in Karachi, Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): Guardian, Reuters, NY Times, AP News, Al Jazeera, FOX News, ABC
Credits:

Ainty Painty (talk) 05:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Oppose for now. The article does not provide sufficient information. Maxxies (talk) 08:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose on both notability and quality, minor disaster and the article isn't up to shape. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 13:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose At this point, seems like an unfortunate fire, but details are too thin to know if there are other major issues. --Masem (t) 15:10, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per Chaotic Enby. Article’s a stub and disaster seems fairly small-scale/non-notable. The Kip 19:19, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose on notability --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Terry Venables[edit]

Article: Terry Venables (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
“Meets all requirements” The entirely unsourced sections don’t bother you? 83.80.192.174 (talk) 18:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support with 2 refs added to the above queried section, I thinks it's covered now Josey Wales Parley 20:15, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted I Opposed this, but I think this is now good enough to post; I removed one sentence that was unsourced and looked a bit trivial. Black Kite (talk) 08:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) 2023 Booker Prize[edit]

Article: Prophet Song (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The novel Prophet Song by Paul Lynch wins the Booker Prize. (Post)
News source(s): [1], [2]. [3]
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
  • I believe it's 2023 Booker Prize that is ITN/R, not the article of the book itself. Neither is ready for the main page. Both are stubs. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:57, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Muboshgu see the quote below, even though the event is what’s ITNR the target article would be what won the award. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:35, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We really should have one of either the author or the book as a bold link. The update to the Booker Prize list is a trivial matter, so we should see a quality article on either or both the author or book. Here, I see all but a couple of awards that Lynch would need to be cited to be ready, and the book article just needs some more expansion (for example, Lynch's explanation of the book from here or perhaps from here. There's clearly more sourcing available to expand the book a notch more. Masem (t) 01:03, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can we add primary sources, ie. interviews with Paul Lynch? Golan1911 (talk) 01:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Lynch and the book are both independently notable via secondary sources, so adding primary source interviews to add more information is completely fine. Primary sources are not something to avoid, you just don't want an article based only on primary sources. Masem (t) 03:58, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Wikipedia page/article for the book was expanded upon. Golan1911 (talk) 03:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on quality it's just a stub. Definitely not enough for ITN. Support per below JM (talk) 07:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose - Article is terrible. Essentially just a list at the moment PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - Because of the significant updates to both the book article (for Prophet Song) and to the Paul Lynch article. And because the updates include references and citations to credible sources. So both articles can be used for the blurb. The article for the 2023 Booker Prize is Ok, too.Trauma Novitiate (talk) 13:21, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak support: Prophet Song article is of good quality. Not sure about the prize. It doesn’t have much but doesn’t have much potential either. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Now that the target article is the great book article instead of the not-so-great prize article, Im changing my vote to support. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Weak support Prophet Song and Paul Lynch articles are short but adequate. Booker Prize article is a disaster length-wise, but as mentioned above I'm not sure it can really be expanded further than its current state. The Kip 18:19, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Updated vote now that BP article is de-targeted. The Kip 23:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment - Correct me if I’m wrong you all, but I just want to reiterate what Masem said above: “The update to the Booker Prize list is a trivial matter, so we should see a quality article on either or both the author or book.” That’s correct because per ITN/R “both the author and translator, as well as the work, should be included in blurb”. It seems to me the oppose votes above (eg., JM & PrecariousWorlds) are to the quality of the 2023 Booker Prize article (or just now “weak support“ from Kip), but that shouldn’t factor in here. So can we get these changed to Support? Thank you.Trauma Novitiate (talk) 18:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    At the time of writing the articles for both the book and the writer weren't great, I should have clarified that I was referring to all three, not just the Booker Prize (though I did think that a little more was needed apart from the list). They've much improved now and could be put up. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The article for the 2023 Booker Prize was also expanded upon. Golan1911 (talk) 20:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thank you PrecariousWorlds for taking another look at this. - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 20:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thank you for calling it to my attention, should have clarified before PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I noticed that. Thank you for your work on this Golam1911 - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 20:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Depends. @Golan1911 may I unbold the booker prize article and change the target to be the book itself? Per ITN/R usually the target article is the winner and not the prize. That would make this a whole lot easier. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I think that would be great. Thank you. Golan1911 (talk) 20:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Can anyone add the article to the In The News section? If it is ready. Golan1911 (talk) 14:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Per ITN/R usually the target article is the winner and not the prize @Aaron Liu: While it seems to have been the de facto practice for Booker blurbs, I don't think it is formally noted anywhere. —Bagumba (talk) 15:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    WP:ITNAWARDS: Unless otherwise noted, the winner of the prize is normally the target article. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thanks. It's what I get for skimming it all these years. —Bagumba (talk) 17:44, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. The novel's article passes muster; the other two are unobjectionable. Moscow Mule (talk) 02:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted Consensus exists that the blurb is supported. Schwede66 16:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment - Thanks for posting Schwede66. However my fellow ITN editors: this could’ve been posted 24 hours ago, and should’ve been. I marked it as “Ready” before the MotoGP World Championship item was marked Ready and posted. As the editor of the nomination Golan1911, I don’t know what your opinion is. But I checked back thru the archives. Two years ago is the last time the Booker Prize winner was posted to ITN. Here’s the link. The same argument that happened 2 years ago happened again now. Check out the archive for November 3, 2021. I see that Masem gives a very detailed explanation of how this ITN/R should work, just as it was above explained by this same editor. The target article in each case is the article about the novel that earned the prize. The book itself. Just like 2 years ago. Not the author and not the Booker Prize article. Per ITN/R “both the author and translator, as well as the work, should be included in blurb.” Can we get this altered to read that the book itself should be the target article for the Booker item if (or when) it is posted so that we don’t go another 2 years before we post this to ITN? Trauma Novitiate (talk) 17:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I unmarked your ready because when you marked this item as such, it definitely did NOT have consensus to post. Even if the opposers were opposing due to confusion about the proper target article, you do not post if we don’t have consensus to post. As for the blurb itself, I do not see what needs alteration. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I never said the blurb needs alteration. I said the ITN/R rationale needs alteration. You very clearly understand what the issue is here: and you already addressed it above with Muboshgu: “even though the event is what’s ITNR the target article would be what won the award”.
    I’m saying that in future, ITN editors should be able to go here Wikipedia:In the news/Recurring items and under the Booker Awards section see something like this:

    “even though the event is what’s ITNR the target article would be the work that won the award. Both the author and translator, as well as the work, should be included in blurb.”

    Clearly there’s a lot of confusion about this issue, both now and in years past. Muboshgu’s statement is the first comment made under this nomination and, imo, led to the initial confusion and many oppose votes.
    Yes it’s true I did mark it Ready, and I did it two different times. The first time I marked it Ready, there was not consensus. I was incorrect. However, I did mark it Ready a second time but only after consensus was reached, maybe 12 hours ago: it was at the same time editor Black Kite posted the RD for Terry Venables but before Bagumba posted the 2023 MotoGP World Championship winner (perhaps prematurely). - Trauma Novitiate (talk) 21:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The entire awards section in ITNR says the target article should be the prize winner unless otherwise noted. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:47, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yeah and that’s the point. Because in the case of the Booker Prize it’s not otherwise noted. The Booker Prize is awarded to a single book of fiction. So that’s what needs to be the target article. And it needs to say so explicitly in the ITNR. But hey it’s all good. I take it that now we’re just talking past each other, anyhow. So see you this time next year when we’ll be debating the same issues. Because I looked back through the archives re: Booker ITN nominations and it happens almost every year, the confusion, except last year when the nomination went stale. I’m finished talking about this unless anyone can tell me who’s the arbiter I can petition to get the wording changed on this ITN/R for the Booker, so as to help us out in the future. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 23:39, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Thank you to the editors for your thoughtful suggestions and assistance in getting these articles reading for the ITN section.Golan1911 (talk) 22:41, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Golan1911Reply[reply]
    My pleasure. I enjoyed the process. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 23:42, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 25[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports


Smoking ban scrapped to fund tax cuts[edit]

Article: Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products (Smoked Tobacco) Amendment Act 2022 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The incoming New Zealand government scraps the world's first generational smoking ban to fund tax cuts. (Post)
News source(s): New Zealand’s New Government Says It Will Scrap Smoking Ban The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated

This is causing quite a stir in New Zealand and the reason I'm nominating this is that last night's main TV news led with this article, focussing on the strong and widespread international reaction. Given that, and that the rather recent New Zealand legislation has already been copied by the UK government, indicates that it's got an impact far beyond domestic politics. Nominated for 25 November as it was on Saturday that the link to the tax cuts became known. Schwede66 08:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support per nom. Aaron Liu (talk) 13:05, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose until it happens, per the article this is what the incoming govt wants to do but nothing has changed yet. --Masem (t) 13:12, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem, it doesn't make sense to post this to ITN until it's actually passed and enacted. ~ Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:33, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem, it's WP:CRYSTAL until it formally happens. The Kip 20:16, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Marty Krofft[edit]

Article: Sid and Marty Krofft (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MSN, Variety{
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The World of Sid and Marty Krofft trippy children's program producers. He and his brother Sid were a major part of why the 70s was the best decade to be a kid. CoatCheck (talk) 06:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • The prose has a handful of {cn} tags. The Works and Awards sections are largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 08:32, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Russell Norman (restaurateur)[edit]

Article: Russell Norman (restaurateur) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent restaurateur in Britain. Abishe (talk) 04:27, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support, New, autopatrolled, start class article. Pretty well referenced with some behind paywalls (to me anyway) so AGF. Maybe could use a reference where it is stated his first book received the inaugural Waterstones Book of the Year award. Josey Wales Parley 20:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Re: Waterstone’s Book of the Year Award, the reference is Amelia Hill’s Guardian piece from November 24 which was already a reference being used, so an easy fix. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 13:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • @Admins willing to post ITN: BangJan1999 22:42, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - Excellent work done on this article. It holds up well. Yes, some of the citations run up against paywalls. I’ll check to see if the web archive & the Wayback machine have anything available. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I tried to find some archived versions for the few references running up against a paywall, but no luck so far. However, not having access to these paywall articles doesn’t hurt this BLP’s accuracy, credibility, or legitimacy. It’s already very well sourced with references available to the ordinary reader. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 13:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment - @Trauma Novitiate: @Joseywales1961: I apologise for citing paywall backed articles as I initially found those sources as credible references to the article and I obtained the information based on such paywall articles. I really understand that such paywall articles are not readily available to everyone due to limited access. I tried my best to add more references to the said article and hopefully it can match with the expectations of the readers and viewers. I take the blame and responsibility for not making more efforts in finding accessible references and citations when creating the article. I just messed up a bit there and I am sorry for that. I can guarantee that I have taken the information from such paywall sources. Abishe (talk) 13:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    You don’t need to apologize. Using paywalled sources is not wrong at all as long as you’re not making the information up or replacing free sources with paywalled sources. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:28, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I second that. You certainly don’t need to apologize. Your work as an editor is first-class as your starting and editing of this article indicates. You have integrity, obviously. You even meticulously use ISSN’s in your references. I’ve not done that before, but maybe I need to. Thanks for your work. Trauma Novitiate (talk) 15:57, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 15:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Someone has added a yellow move tag. It has really flowery prose "paradigm shift" etc. Secretlondon (talk) 17:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Move tags are purple and do not prevent an article from being on the main page. That paragraph is the only one with flowery language so it should be good enough. Aaron Liu (talk) 17:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

November 24[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology


Rd: Douglas Ahlstedt[edit]

Article: Douglas Ahlstedt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Lyric tenor, who appeared in leading (and small) roles in the Americas and Europe, a member of the Met and the Deutsche Oper am Rhine. Long list of roles, and theatres. The article was already detailed and sourced! I exchanged a lost ref by something better, and a copied ref by the original. Private info was found in the obit. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:20, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Support: article seems good enough. There’s an unsourced sentence at the end of the United States section about how well he performed on the gameshow, should we remove that? Aaron Liu (talk) 18:45, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I commented it out, couldn't find a ref. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:20, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Somalia joins the East African Community[edit]

Proposed image
Article: East African Community (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Somalia is admitted as the eighth member of the East African Community. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Somalia joins the East African Community as its eighth member.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Major geopolitical development in East Africa, with the East African Community admitting Somalia after 11 years of negotiations. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 09:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please consider crediting (co-crediting?) ItzSyther if possible, who noted the need for updates on the talkpage before I edited the page. CMD (talk) 09:38, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done, thanks for noting! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 09:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support I think this is ITN-worthy as this is a pretty significant change to the political landscape of East Africa. LynxesDesmond (talk) 13:40, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Weak Support - I do think this can potentially be notable enough to warrant a blurb, but only just. With the ongoing project of the East African Federation I think this could have quite a significant effect (though at risk of POV I would mention that it's very unlikely Somalia will be integrated into this IMO due to how unstable the state is, same as South Sudan or DRCongo) PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:16, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose only on the basis of the two orange tags in the article. These must be resolved first, but this is appropriate for posting otherwise. --Masem (t) 15:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support on notability but the article is not ready per Masem. Moazfargal (talk) 15:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Support per above as in Moazfargal Lukt64 (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on quality per the aforementioned orange banners. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 21:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Support. Good work, CMD. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 02:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose The BBC report says that "To be admitted into the EAC, new countries are supposed to show that they adhere to the principles of good governance ... Last year, Somalia was ranked the most corrupt country in the world by Transparency International." But the EAC article says little about this discrepancy. And the EAC article appears to need some significant fact-checking as the things it does say include "Tanzania has more land than all the other EAC nations combined ..." – a claim which seems about 15 years out-of-date. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support on notability but quality must be improved. Andrew says there is "a claim 15 years out of date". JM (talk) 00:31, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment I have boldly added more information to the two tagged sections and removed the tags. The outdated information noted relates to the early integration period (pre-expansion), I added a bit on the end of that enthusiasm before expansion began. I've also removed a bunch of cruft that had little to do with the topic. A general outdatedness in some areas may remain (not sure how this interacts with ITN requirements), although it's worth noting that in some cases issues simply stalled and continue to stall forever. CMD (talk) 02:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Congratulations, thanks a lot! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 13:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose Relatively unknown organisation without much influence.
Do we always post ascensions of countries to some organisations, even not famous?
I don't think so. Kirill C1 (talk) 15:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It has a ton of influence on East Africa. It's famous enough. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:11, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is the equivalent of the European Union for the African states, so definitely significant that a new country is introduced. Just because its not in the news as much as the EU doesn't make it less significant. Masem (t) 16:54, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The European Union is a massive confederation of global powers, the EAC is little more than a small regional forum PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:24, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's among the most influential African organizations (with the African Union), with a much higher level of integration between members and prospects for federalization (although the last three members complicate that point). ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 17:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • the core group of the EAC makes some sense but Somalia's accession seems more like annexation of a failed state than a marriage of equals. See Eurasia Review for an eye-opening critique. A key issue is that Somalia is not part of the Swahili language region. Our article does not explain this. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    In term of personal opinions, I'd say everything past the first 5 members was an absolute mess that only prevented the "core" EAC from progressing towards a federation. In terms of Wikivoice, I don't think that's what belongs in the article (also the link doesn't work for me, unfortunately). ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 19:42, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Wikipedia is supposed to summarise secondary sources with some analysis, rather than just presenting PR platitudes as if they are a sure thing. Note that the EAC has collapsed completely before and so the success of its plans can't be taken for granted. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Of course no future plan should be taken for granted (WP:CRYSTAL after all) but using the argument of "it collapsed before" to support this point is in the range of being OR ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 00:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree, to me this excessive rate of expansion to barely-functioning states is only jeopardizing prospects of a Federation, but I'll leave it at that PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:17, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support on notability, oppose on quality. Article needs a lot of work. The Kip 19:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    What should be improved most urgently? I see that the last two sections are basically just tables, but the rest appears pretty clean? Thanks! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 21:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Ross McDonnell[edit]

Article: Ross McDonnell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Irish Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Irish filmmaker. Article was recently created and needs work. He was missing for two weeks before parts of his remains were discovered on a beach in Queens, NY. Thriley (talk) 14:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Ron Hodges[edit]

Article: Ron Hodges (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://apnews.com/article/ron-hodges-dies-obituary-mets-fbf289ed74be7079624f16ac20f63451
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 240d:1a:4b5:2800:d95:482e:96cf:9ffa (talkcontribs) 18:01, 2023 November 24 (UTC)

November 23[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


(Reviewers needed) RD: Fathima Beevi[edit]

Article: Fathima Beevi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian jurist. First woman judge of the Supreme Court. Ktin (talk) 22:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Comment: Close, but seems a little bit of undue weight to the controversy section, without much detail about her legal career or judicial contributions. Also not sure what it means when it says Beevi "gave a clean chit to the law and order situation", which could use some clarification, as the rest of the section depends on understanding what this means. SpencerT•C 15:13, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RD: Charles Peters[edit]

Article: Charles Peters (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 14:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Needs ref improvement currently. - Indefensible (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, article includes unsourced information. Suonii180 (talk) 23:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • There are several unreferenced sections and a handful of {cn} tags elsewhere in the prose. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 22:31, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Posted) RD: Harald Hasselbach[edit]

Article: Harald Hasselbach (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  2-time Super Bowl champion and Grey Cup champion has died. Notable enough to have his name on the ticker (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Blurb not really necessary, but eligible for ticker.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:29, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Weak Support for RD Article is adequate for RD, if barely. Oppose blurb A prominent athlete but not on a level justifying a blurb and article quality is also not up to scratch for a blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:53, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oppose blurb, notable life, non-notable death. Also not a household name for a non-American/Canadian like me. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 23:06, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, oppose blurb on notability. The article should be expanded, I find it too short for someone who, apparently, was so notable in his field. But he is far from having a blurb, from what Chatoic says. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:20, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose RD on quality, oppose blurb on notability per all above. Article's 6 paragraphs (if you count two sentences as a paragraph). qw3rty 13:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • We've got no consensus for a blurb - no more voting for that as that is just going to bring down the RD nomination. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. Six decent-sized paragraphs and over 2,500 bytes of prose is definitely above stub class and enough to post – a currently featured item (Claude Kahn) is actually shorter than this (if you don't count a list of works). BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Article is adequate enough for RD, if only barely. The Kip 19:43, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose The claims of quality do not seem well founded. For example, one of the sources is a fantasy site and the link doesn't work for me. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:58, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    If it's just the one, tag it, but that alone doesn't seem like a showstopper, unless there are more. —Bagumba (talk) 14:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Agreed. Nonetheless, I've replaced the dead link with another source that mentions the information. Tails Wx 16:52, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The replacement citation does not fully support the existing sentence. This is not quality; it's fudging. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:11, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Which part of the sentence isn't supported? Aaron Liu (talk) 22:31, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I misread the source, originally the part to have been a part of a winning team wasn't supported. I did modify the sentence thereafter per the ESPN reference, sorry about the confusion. Tails Wx 00:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I mean, if you win a team sport, you were part of the winning team, but sure, this reads better. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson This is not quality; it's fudging: Gentle reminder to assume good faith. Otherwise, be prepared to show diffs that an individual's behavior is habitually and intentionally deceiving. Thanks. —Bagumba (talk) 04:08, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I’m pretty sure it was not really an accusation and trying to say there was a mistake in the sourcing. Aaron Liu (talk) 11:59, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Fudge can mean to fake, falsify or cheat... —Bagumba (talk) 15:14, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    wikt:fudge#Verb To alter something from its true state, as to hide a flaw or uncertainty, deliberately but not necessarily dishonestly or immorally. There’s also a dated definition of botch, which I thought was the main. It’s weird how we need to do this in an AGF discussion. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. Article has been expanded sufficiently past stub-class and is well-sourced. Good to go for ITN posting. Tails Wx 16:52, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • If any other editor wants to pitch in to qualify this for a WP:DYK co-nom, we still have 4 days to get this to 3100 characters. I don't see that much more that needs to be added, but welcome help in that regard.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:56, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 22:26, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(Closed) Dublin riot[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Article: 2023 Dublin riot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Dublin, a riot occurs after a woman and three children were stabbed outside a school. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Protesters riot in Dublin after a woman and three children were stabbed outside a school.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Dublin, a mass stabbing is followed by a riot.
News source(s): RTE News, Irish News, Irish Independent, BBC News, New York Times, CNN, ABC (Australia), ABC (US), Al Jazeera
Credits:
  • Pretty widely reported in Irish and international news sources. This level of rioting is fairly uncommon in Dublin, and the Garda Commissioner has said that the protestors were "driven by far-right ideology". I could use some assistance with the blurbs, as I'm not an ITN regular and I'm not sure what the style is here. We expect there will be more to add tomorrow afternoon, particularly surrounding the actions of a Brazilian Deliveroo driver who reportedly intervened in the stabbings, we're just waiting on stronger sourcing for that. Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Anyone know what the last time a riot was posted was? I fully doubt this is greater than that, even if it's getting a lot of press right now. Mebigrouxboy (talk) 02:46, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Garda sources told the Irish Times that level of violence and criminal damaged "far eclipsed" the 2006 Dublin riots and was "unprecedented in the modern era in Dublin". Otherwise the most recent riot that I know of was 2021 Dublin riots. Unless I've misunderstood the question, and you're referring to the last time a riot was posted on ITN? Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yes, I was referring to all demonstrations in ITN. - Mebigrouxboy (talk) 02:59, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Looking through the archives I've found a June 2023 Honduran prison riot. It also looks like the 2021 Northern Ireland riots were added on 8 April 2021, but I can't find a discussion for that one. Sideswipe9th (talk) 03:08, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    FWIW, the Honduran one was between 2 well-known gangs and killed 46 and the NI one only ran on its tenth day. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 06:00, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose An unrest of about 200 ppl (based on our article) is very small in the larger scope of things, particularly in response to a domestic, non-terrorism related crime, is not really notable in the larger scale of things, at this point. If the unrest continues for several days, that might be something. --Masem (t) 03:18, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Procedural oppose. Article is now at RM. RM has been closed. I'll give this a proper review later. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 06:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I don't think that is much important as it's only changing "unrest" to "riot". Aaron Liu (talk) 14:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Support alt. This was a pretty major event in Ireland; they don't have riots like this often. Also per Nableezy. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 01:34, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose riots are not ITNR per se, wherever they occur. They are usual and ordinary. In this case, I don't see that they have a remarkable impact even if the motive is execrable. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    This isn't usual and ordinary. Secretlondon (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose article fails to explain why this particular stabbing incident led to riots. Though careful to mention the national origin of the person who helped stop the attacker, and quick to blame "right wing ideology" it suspiciously doesn't state the national origin of the attacker despite the attacker being a naturalized citizen. This is likely a key detail as to why the stabbings resulted in riots and is missing from the article. --142.116.102.110 (talk) 12:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The media is doing the same. Secretlondon (talk) 14:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Strong Support - Front page news, high quality article, major event. This is the quintessential ITN blurb PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Strong support altblurb: A lot more out of the ordinary than elections or sports. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
^^ PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support: Article is of decent quality and event is highly covered in the news. Moazfargal (talk) 15:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Support: Seeing as how this is the biggest riot Ireland has seen in modern times (besides the 2006 Dublin riot), I think that this deserves a spot LynxesDesmond (talk) 18:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But it was only 200 people, which is quite small compared to other protests or riots like those in Hong Kong, India, or the US. Masem (t) 19:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But that's still larger than what we currently have in the ITN column. Plus Ireland has less people than any of the places you listed, so it logically follows that the rioter count would be smaller. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We don't force things into ITN because other blurbs are stale or lacking. And yes, with Ireland being a small country, a riot that involves a larger proportion of their population is still small scale. Masem (t) 21:11, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since this event does have a bigger impact than every current item, I don't see why we shouldn't "force" it in. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We do not force news to happen, simply to progress stale blurbs out of the box. That's been discussed multiple times on the talk page before and rejected. Masem (t) 21:48, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's not forcing news to happen, it already is news. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:08, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is like saying "There's only 24 footballers in the Grey Cup Finale, so we shouldn't post it". It's the international reaction and significance that makes this notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Oppose. Small-scale incident that didn't last very long. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:23, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    It lasted longer than the Grey Cup. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    C'mon Aaron, you know that argument makes no sense. Obviously sports events rarely last as long as riots, but duration and volume or persons in a riot tends to have a big impact on the incident's effect. And you asked a question below about "damage" that I will answer. That answer is "no". A small-scale tropical storm can do that damage and might actually kill people. No one died, and while I can't say that this is a "small" incident for anyone effected, the effects seem fairly contained and the impacts of this event going forward are indeterminate. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The point is that sports events rarely have as much impact as better news. If there was a small-scale tropical storm in this month, that would be news! If there was one during the hurricane season, it wouldn't be because there are a ton of other, similar and larger news. The same does not go for these weeks, which is why we should post this. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support major event, lots of destruction, significant as a flash point of anti-immigrant sentiment in Ireland. Many politicians are reacting strongly negatively, so this is having repurcussions in Irish politics. Although I think we should have a blurb which explains the reasons ("stabbed by an Algerian immigrant") regardless of whether the reason is valid; the entire event is being characterized as a far-right anti-immigrant protest and the blurb ignores that. JM (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    On the proposed change to the blurb, the nationality of the suspect has not officially been released by the Gardaí. Conversely there are several reliable sources (New York Times, Daily Telegraph UK, The Guardian UK) who have reported on this being misinformation that precipitated the riot. As with other details surrounding the stabbings, until the Gardaí release the information and it is published in reliable sources, we cannot report upon it. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Interestingly the article now states: He was later reported to be a man in his 50s who had lived in Ireland for 20 years, had become a naturalised Irish citizen in 2014, and had been living in homeless accommodation in Dublin’s north inner city. The origin country of the attacker has not been announced by the authorities. So we could at least put immigrant for context, or, like I said below, specify that the rioters believed the attacker was a MENA immigrant. I believe it's important to clarify that this riot is not just over a stabbing, its motivated by anti-immigrant sentiment. JM (talk) 23:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]