Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

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This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.

A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.

Yuhei Nakamura in 2011
Yuhei Nakamura

How to nominate an item[edit]

In order to suggest a candidate:

  • Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated).
    • Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process.
  • Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4 header (====) when doing so.
    • Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb should be written in simple present tense.
    • Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of posting.
  • Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN note}} to the corresponding article's talk page.

Purge this page to update the cache

There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN.

Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template.

Headers[edit]

  • Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with (Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer active.
  • Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the header.

Voicing an opinion on an item[edit]

  • Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do not...[edit]

  1. add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead, explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.
  2. oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive.
  3. accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN.
  4. comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
  5. oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page.
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Archives[edit]

November 29[edit]

Politics and elections


November 28[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

  • 2021 Amazonas earthquake
    • A 7.5 magnitude earthquake strikes northern Peru at 131 kilometres (81 mi) of depth, killing one person and injuring 12 others. 75 homes are destroyed and around 220 homes are damaged. The earthquake is felt as far south as Lima. President Pedro Castillo orders the deployment of relief and also viewed the area in a military aircraft. (Infobae)

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections


2021 Honduran general election[edit]

Proposed image
Article: 2021 Honduran general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Xiomara Castro is elected President of Honduras. (Post)
News source(s): LA Times, Reuters, DW, El Heraldo (in Spanish)
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The counting is halfway through, but she has a 20 points advantage. She already claimed victory and some news outlets in Honduras are stating that she's virtually electedKacamata! Dimmi!!! 07:41, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Wait, Castro and Asfura have both claimed victory, and while Castro is clearly in the lead at the moment, nobody is certain how this election will turn out with such a volatile situation. I would support the blurb when counting has reached the point where it is undeniable that Castro has won and more than a few news outlets have acknowledged the win. Especially given that this would be the first time since 2009 where the National Party loses the presidency. For the time being though, its best we wait on such a contentious election. Ornithoptera (talk) 08:48, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait While it seems likely that Castro will win the election, considering the history here that is not a certainty. Additionally, her article could use some serious work, especially if she is to be a head of state. It's practically a stub! BSMRD (talk) 09:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait I don't see any sources saying Castro has been elected, even if he won the most votes. Also, how can we know a winner if only 50% of the votes are counted, that seems premature to call the election now? Also added a couple of cn tags which should be fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait until final results are clear. The article needs improvement: cn tags, lack of prose in the preliminary results, missing at least the "Conduct" and "Aftermath" sections, and it would be great if the "Candidates" section would explain at least a little bit about the proposals of each one. And maybe talk a little more about the candidates to the National Congress and to the mayoralties, at least to the one in Tegucigalpa. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 10:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now and wait, way too early to call. Only 50% votes counted and both candidates have claimed victory. In the last election, Orlando caught up in the end to win (opposition was leading in the beginning). Oppose on the ground that we only nominate after a winner has been declared by the electoral comission. BastianMAT (talk) 10:34, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Virgil Abloh[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Virgil Abloh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: American fashion designer Virgil Abloh dies at age 41. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​American fashion designer Virgil Abloh, best known for his work with Louis Vuitton and Off-White, dies at age 41.
News source(s): LVMH
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Leading figure in fashion, received numerous awards and accolades, notably "the first American of African descent to be artistic director at a French luxury fashion house" and "named by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world in 2018". Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 18:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  • RD Support Although the "Death" section has no sources. He's not a great transformational fashion personality and doesn't pass "Mandela/Thatcher". _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:48, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • NYT describes Abloh as transformative, barrier-breaking, and that his "ascent to the heights of the traditional luxury industry changed what was possible in fashion". Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 21:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • As the so-called resident fashion expert here, I support RD. No blurb. Trillfendi (talk) 18:55, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • RD Support - not blurb though.BabbaQ (talk) 21:10, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • RD Support but no blurb; also pretty knowledgable on fashion. He was important no doubt, but not super influential. Karl Lagerfeld did not have a blurb, and from what I can tell Hubert de Givenchy was nominated but not even featured under RD. Blade Jogger 2049 Talk 22:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Norodom Ranariddh[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Norodom Ranariddh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Cambodian prince and former Prime Minister Norodom Ranariddh dies age 77. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​Former Prime Minister of Cambodia Prince Norodom Ranariddh dies age 77.
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Cambodian prince and politician. Scaramouche33 (talk) 14:50, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support Article looks great. In this case we could consider a blurb, perhaps. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:50, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good to go, indeed.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:10, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support The article is FA. Hanamanteo (talk) 02:15, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 02:52, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Added blurbs and image think this FA-level article deserves a blurb. The country's first democratically elected leader, a prominent and politically active of the royal family, plus a longstanding FA-level article, deserves a blurb as well as a RD listing. Arcahaeoindris (talk) 10:41, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Frank Williams[edit]

Article: Frank Williams (Formula One) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founder and long-time manager of one of the most successful Formula One teams/constructors. Not sure who to list as update given how many IPs and users jumped on this. 5225C (talk • contributions) 14:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support referencing good, death could do with a bit of expansion. Expect this will be done as more sources report on this. Mjroots (talk) 14:53, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Notable enough for rd, not only because of his motorsport exploits, but being one of the longest living paraplegics. User:Jsalty254 — Preceding undated comment added 15:07, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Count Iblis (talk) 16:00, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good to go. Hanamanteo (talk) 17:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 19:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

RD: Phil Saviano[edit]

Article: Phil Saviano (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP, NYT, WaPo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the first Catholic Church sex abuse whistleblowers. Levivich 06:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support Good depth of coverage, referenced. SpencerT•C 06:50, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

November 27[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment


(Posted) RD: Lubomyra Mandziy[edit]

Article: Lubomyra Mandziy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Ukrayinska Pravda
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ukrainian educator and civil servant. TJMSmith (talk) 01:17, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support A bit short but Start class. Fully sourced and ready.--BabbaQ (talk) 09:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good to go. Hanamanteo (talk) 09:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 17:52, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Almudena Grandes[edit]

Article: Almudena Grandes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Barron's
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the greatest Spanish writers. I have fixed the article, but a few tweaks are needed. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support Comprehensive article and well-sourced. KittenKlub (talk) 09:43, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. Thoroughly referenced. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:16, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 17:54, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) 2021 Japan Series[edit]

Proposed image
Article: 2021 Japan Series (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​In baseball, the Tokyo Yakult Swallows defeat the Orix Buffaloes to win the Japan Series. (MVP Yuhei Nakamura pictured)' (Post)
News source(s): The Japan Times
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 16:46, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Anybody? Bueller? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:16, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support: Every game has a game summary with refs. However, I don't think it's a good idea to put much emphasis on Nakamura as the MVP on MainPage as the wikipage (thus far) has not explained what Nakamura did to become the MVP (batted 7-for-22 with three RBIs?). --PFHLai (talk) 20:58, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    PFHLai, I wasn't clear either on why they named him MVP, but this article goes into it some and I'm going to add it. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:24, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support seems fine. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 02:57, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

November 26[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime


RD: Marilyn McLeod[edit]

Article: Marilyn McLeod (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Soul Tracks
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American singer-songwriter. Death announced on 11/26/2021. Lede needs to be expanded. TJMSmith (talk) 01:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose Article is no longer a stub, however it still quite small. I also assume that the exact date of birth and death can be determined after some searching, because there are bound to be some obituaries.KittenKlub (talk) 09:47, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support in principle An important figure in Motown. I don't know whether the article is ready or not. -TenorTwelve (talk) 20:53, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment: With only 1287 characters (220 words) of readable prose, this is a stub and not eligible for RD. As an "important figure in Motown", there should be more materials to include in this wikibio. Please expand the article. The {Lead too short} tag also needs to be addressed before this RD nom can proceed. --PFHLai (talk) 21:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) Ukrainian coup d'état plot[edit]

WP:SNOW. No chance. A non-event.
Sca (talk) 13:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
(non-admin closure)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021 Ukrainian coup d'état plot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announced thwarting a coup d'état plot backed by Russia (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announces that an alleged coup d'état by Russia has been thwarted.
Alternative blurb II: ​Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announces that an alleged coup d'état has been thwarted.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
 NoonIcarus (talk) 23:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose - for a start, it's a bit one sided claim so far that the coup plot actually existed, but regardless I'll say the fact that they were caught before anything happen makes it not notable enough for ITN. Sucessful coup definitely. Troops or whatever actually made the move but was beaten back by loyal security forces probably. Arrested before anything happened not so much. -- KTC (talk) 00:27, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose I don't think it was thwarted as much as exposed. Basically, Zelensky alleged that there will be a coup on December 1 involving the opposition. So let's just wait till then.Scaramouche33 (talk) 06:13, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support, also added 2 more neutral blurbs Article's in a decent shape 5.44.170.26 (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose, one-paragraph stub with WP:NOTNEWS problems, not major international news, and most importantly there hasn't been an actual coup yet. Sandstein 12:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted blurb) RD/Blurb: Stephen Sondheim[edit]

Article: Stephen Sondheim (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​American musical theatre composer Stephen Sondheim dies at the age of 91. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, The Guardian, Express
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: American composer and lyricist dies at age 91. Wrote the music and/or lyrics for many well-known Broadway shows. Article needs more refs. Davey2116 (talk) 22:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose on quality. Needs refs and I would like to see an improvement of tone before it hits the main page (but the refs are a must). Kingsif (talk) 22:30, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb in principle The article's not quite there yet, but he was unquestionably the biggest name in a big field for an incredibly long time. -- Kicking222 (talk) 22:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb in principle Musical theatre giant. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:41, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • References improved. No cn tags remain. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:55, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose quality is way below standard. Once we get it there, perhaps we can look at blurb. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:46, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb in principle This guy is widely considered the greatest musical theatre composer of all time. However, as noted above, the article is not yet ready. NorthernFalcon (talk) 22:50, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb in principle, since the article's own lede kind of gives him that (provided it's sourced properly, of course). rawmustard (talk) 22:56, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment: Perhaps someone should first propose a blurb and post it here on WP:ITN/C before any more people vote "support" for a blurb? Perhaps we need separate voting on article quality and readiness? --PFHLai (talk) 23:16, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    To your first point, no. Everyone knows the formula for an RD blurb, whether they see it or not (national job description Someone Surname (pictured) dies at the age of x). That second idea is intriguing. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    I don't understand how one can decide to support a blurb, or not support it, without knowing the vocabulary used for "national job description". I think Sunshineisles2's blurb got it right, though. --PFHLai (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment: Proposed blurb, and I would additionally support blurb in principle when the article can be sufficiently improved. Few figures from the theatre world would qualify more than Sondheim as a transformative name in the field: the article leads on quoting the Medal of Freedom ceremony crediting him with "[reinventing] the American musical," there are theaters on both Broadway and the West End named after him, and there was literally a quarterly journal solely dedicated to his work that ran for over two decades.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 23:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality until that's fixed, it's a moot point, as it can't go onto RD or ITN blurb unless it's sufficient quality. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • No Blurb Big name in a big field, which will draw attention to itself in RD (pending article fixup). Nothing at all newsworthy about his age. Photo RD as an honorary gesture, if that's the goal. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:13, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb Of the theatre/film composers, Sondheim, Morricone and Williams are definitely at the top of the field and all deserve a blurb. However, considering that Morricone was dismissed for a blurb as an "old man", it'd be unjust to bypass it and give Sondheim a blurb (the same would be the case for Williams).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:45, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    To be clear, the only reason I didn't say "old man dies" for this one was because I said OMD in the summary. Nothing personal. They were equally old and expressive in my books (and all subjectively beneath Carpenter, Elfman and Johnston). InedibleHulk (talk) 08:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb in principle A giant in the theatre world. Created so many masterworks, influenced so much culture. The top of his field. Passes the "Thatcher/Mandela" standard we sometimes use regarding world leader RDs. Transformational global leader. -TenorTwelve (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – (My 2¢) – I would oppose a blurb via the old-man-dies theme, but I don't know enough about his field to gauge 'transformativity.' Must admit he probably qualifies as a household name among the culturally aware – which, alas, may be a minority. – Sca (talk) 14:31, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb because of his prolific career at the top of his field. Him dying naturally as a nonagenarian doesn't disqualify him. Jim Michael (talk) 15:19, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support either blurb or Photo RD in principle: ("in principle" because I leave others to judge quality). Sunshineisles2 has pointed out above that we posted this Photo RD 2 years ago. Basically something to mark the passing of a very notable individual, so either a blurb or a Photo RD.Tlhslobus (talk) 20:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Neutral, but why is his name not in the RD namelist already? -DePiep (talk) 20:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • No not the blurb. Just his name in the RD list. -DePiep (talk) 21:36, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
As with Colin Powell: d. 18 Oct, only 20 Oct name in RD. -DePiep (talk) 21:43, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Because there are multiple paragraphs that lack a single reference. Stephen 22:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
The WP:ITN/C § intro says:
"A blurb needs ... target article ... check the quality of that article ... updated, ... reliable sources demonstrate the significance...": about quality for blurb article then. Then it says:
"RD line ... can include any living thing whose death was recently announced".
iow: no restriction by article quality for RD inclusion. Personally I find it reasonable that an article that was obviously BLP-conformant and that has an RS death announdement, can be linked to from RD. Anyway, an omittance, just as with Colin Powell (who was added to RD without blurp-quality articele— 2 days later b/c of similar blurb discussion). -DePiep (talk) 05:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
We don’t post sub-standard biographies as a blurb or to recent deaths. Stephen 05:24, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
Is what I am questioning. So far, only the blurb is explicitly mentioned for such a requirement. Also, I cannot find the reasoning that forces us to have such an omission on MP. -DePiep (talk) 05:32, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
For any section on the Main Page (which includes ITN), any featured article is expected to demonstrate the quality with which WP editors can write. We don't expect FA quality for ITN featured items, but an article on an RD better be up to BLP specifications as a minimum standard, and that means large swathes of text missing sourcing is not a demonstration of our best work. --Masem (t) 05:37, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
WP:ITNRD point 4 says "Of sufficient quality to be posted on the main page, as determined by a consensus of commenters." The linked section on article quality says, in part, "Articles should be well referenced; one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article, but any contentious statements must have a source, and having entire sections without any sources is unacceptable." Thryduulf (talk) 14:44, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb One of the most notable living people in the theater world before his death. Blurb is warranted. Thriley (talk) 06:41, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb, top of the field. --Clibenfoart (talk) 09:16, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Note: Citations now improved. Any more required, or can this be posted? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:16, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
There are still at least eight paragraphs without a single reference, and many more with content that isn’t sourced by refs present. So, not by a long shot. Kingsif (talk) 21:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
Would you care to add appropriate cn tags, or even add a reference or two? Or perhaps you could improve "the tone"? Thanks so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb now. I respect the application of WP:BLPRS to this project. However, it's counterintuitive to demand further refinement of a very long, good article with 200 citations while posting other articles so short they barely pass AFD. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:37, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    • That's not a valid argument given that many of the CN tags are on opinions/subjective statements. Even if it had 1000 citations, having those CNs on those types of statements is a no-go for main page posting. --Masem (t) 02:39, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose So much tags. Hanamanteo (talk) 02:21, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support RD or blurb Certainly top of his field; The NY Times describes him as a "titan of the American musical." Article is comprehensive and well-referenced. I just sourced the last 10 [citation needed] tags. Ackatsis (talk) 07:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Note: all cn tags have now been answered. In fact, User:Ackatsis answered the last one over two hours ago. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 11:20, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant[edit]

No consensus to post at this point. --Tone 18:35, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​The SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant is labeled a variant of concern by the World Health Organization. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​Travel between several southern African states and others worldwide halts for concern over the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant.
News source(s): The New York Times, AP, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Major development in the course of the pandemic. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support The recent mutation in SARS-CoV-2 found in the Southen African region have recently been assigned a name. This new information is very important due to the mutations in the variant TapticInfo (talk) 20:06, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose we have COVID in ongoing. We have no real data other than how mutated this variant is. If it is the "end of days" variant, I'd support a blurb, but in the meantime, ongoing covers it well. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I concur with TRM. I think every variant is concerning, but there isn't yet anything unusual about this one. 331dot (talk) 20:26, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    Ok, a momentary pause: it is unusual in that the UK (for example) has already banned flights from southern Africa. No-one could land from there in the UK from midday today (and I know someone now stranded in Botswana as a result). So that is highly unusual. But it's purely precautionary based on what the UK didn't do with the delta variant. So there's a spectrum of "usualness". The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:29, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support This is the first VOC since Delta (and we all know how that one turned out). Covid is on ongoing but this is I think a big enough update.  Nixinova T  C   20:57, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait The WHO said that it will take a few weeks to assess the impact. Until its impact becomes clear, it should stay off the front page. NW1223(Howl at me/My hunts) 20:53, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment. I wonder if the EU, US, UK and Canada imposing new travel bans on various African nations as a result of the new variant is noteworthy enough for the front page. Calidum 21:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. It took the WHO all of two days to dub this the first VOC since Delta in May, and every news site I've checked has Omicron as its top headline. --Xarm Endris (talk) 22:54, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Per TRM, 331. We have an Ongoing venue for Covid developments, and my impression is remains that not enough is known about this variant to warrant separate promotion at ITN. – Sca (talk) 23:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support, this is headline news worldwide with major impact on travel, financial markets, etc. -- Tavix (talk) 23:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Confirmed cases already in Europe. This is an escalation. BabbaQ (talk) 23:49, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Lots of variants (including those that fizzled out) had confirmed cases in different countries in various parts of the world. As of now coverage about this variant is mostly speculation. 2607:FEA8:E31F:FBC1:2D79:6E12:60A:10C4 (talk) 15:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment the article is written in British English, so why is the blurb being proposed with American spelling? Labeled is labelled in British English, which would be consistent with the article. This isn't American Wikipedia, no matter how much Americans want to whitewash the rest of the world. Joseph2302 (talk) 01:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Could you Assume Good Faith Joseph2302? No one is whitewashing anything; likely the author who proposed the blurb uses American English. I'd make the same mistake. Also, I dunno about the validity of "labeled" in British English, but in American English, "Labelled" is a valid (but less common) spelling.-- RockstoneSend me a message! 01:47, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I'll stop complaining when ITN stops getting spammed with Americanism. [2] shows my point on spellings. And we get way to many spurious, non notable ITN nominations about American stuff, compared to very little from other countries. Joseph2302 (talk) 03:07, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Well, this isn't an American story, so your complaint is irrelevant. Cut it out. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
There'll be L to pay over this ridiculous rhubarb. – Sca (talk) 14:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Absolutely ridiculous rant. wow Belugsump (talk) 19:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • So Britons seemingly hijack an article that seemingly should have been written in some form of Southern African English and then decide it's very wicked of Americans to accidentally fail to go along with this. Great to see how Brexit has restored British self-confidence. Face-smile.svg Tlhslobus (talk) 20:14, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support -- this is getting attention that even the Delta variant did not get. It's the top headline worldwide (although, it is a slow news period since it's Thanksgiving/Black Friday weekend). -- RockstoneSend me a message! 01:48, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    For about eight billion people worldwide, there'll be no figgy turkey and cheap electronics this weekend. Just headlines, everywhere, slowly repeating "Omicron". Omicron. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support The existing ongoing doesn't provide anywhere near sufficient coverage in my opinion, with ctrl+f only finding the name of this variant used once. I second BabbaQ, the situation is escalating, significant, and merits separate coverage. Canadianerk (talk) 01:52, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Covered in ongoing; all we know is we don't know much yet, and like general COVID, learning more could take years. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support several countries have already taken action in response to this variant. It is clearly highly newsworthy. Banedon (talk) 05:40, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Just as a possible alternative for the blurb, as there's nothing else on the Ongoing line presently, but this is a significant aspect to COVID we could add a parenthetical link to the Omicron variant page in Ongoing, assuming that that target is of quality. --Masem (t) 06:02, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Altblurbed If anyone knows how many those "several" are in real numbers, feel free to fill me in. I still oppose both blurbs. Just think this one is less routine advisory, more headline. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:19, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. This new variant has a large probability of becoming a new pandemic, COVID-21 that will exist parallel to COVID-19. So, we're then back to square one. If we then repeat the same mistake of not containing COVID-21 using strict lockdowns like the Chinese did in Wuhan, we'll end up with the same outcome a few years later: COVID-23 and back to square one yet again. Count Iblis (talk) 06:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    None of that somewhat alarming and rather sound advice is in the blurbs or target article, though...yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    WP:CRYSTAL. Jehochman Talk 13:43, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    ITN isn't a forum for probabilities of any size, however many alarums may divert us from editorial probity. – Sca (talk) 14:57, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Now this is definately IN THE NEWS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.44.170.26 (talk) 08:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is a WP:MEDRS matter and so unsuitable for ITN which posts uncited blurbs on a highly visible but protected page. The news is quite tentative and based on a press-release rather than solid science. The WHO statements are not consistent – that the variant is concerning but that measures such as travel bans should not be used and that we should use the alphabet to avoid stigma but not follow its order to avoid Xi. It appears that the variant will not be well understood for at least two weeks and so we will have to wait for reliable information. See also mu. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    Variant of concern is a formal designation, and we have posted medical news plenty of times before (e.g. when COVID-19 was declared a pandemic; I'll save folks the embarrassment of digging up who opposed that one) in addition to medical TFA blurbs, so I don't think your argument that we should avoid anything MEDRS on the main page has precedent. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 18:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Add to ongoing where COVID-19 is already listed. Yes places have suspended flights, but they've been doing this on and off for almost 2 years now. And it's based more on the fact they don't know enough about this variant. ALT0 is dull and doesn't explain why this needs posting, when no other variant did. ALT1 is a knee-jerk reaction to countries not knowing enough about it, that will likely be recinded in a couple of weeks. And not sure the article meets WP:MEDRS either. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:09, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per all above. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:27, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – Very widely reported on Saturday, with suspected cases in The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. However, vaccine makers say tweaked Covid vaccines could be developed quickly against the Omnicron variant. [3] In the circumstances, it's too early to play Omnicron as a blurb. – Sca (talk) 13:16, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
This new virus is actually mentioned all over the news. And confirmed cases is starting to be reported daily.BabbaQ (talk) 13:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Seems to me I've encountered the phrase "all over" all over the place lately. – Sca (talk) 15:16, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Skeptical because there is only suspicion at this point. Nothing is actually known other than that there's a new variant of concern. Unfortunately science does not lend itself to breaking news. Rather, it's a long slow progression. This can be covered in ongoing. We should not chase the latest COVID speculation, much of which eventually proves to be wrong. WHO has named 5 variants of concern, but only Alpha and Delta appear to have become dominant in their time. We do not know if Omicron will be another Delta, or if it will go the way of Gamma. How many times have we previously posted a WHO announcement about a variant of concern? If we didn't post the last five, why should we post this one? As for the alternative blurb, is the travel disruption between southern Africa and the rest of the world significant enough, or is it just more the same that's been happening here and there for the last 18 months (which would suggests this should be covered in ongoing). Jehochman Talk 13:37, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose, per TRM above. —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:39, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support because travel between many countries has been severely adversely affected. The news of the variant caused a huge fall in the oil price & stock markets on Fri. Jim Michael (talk) 15:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Even if it turns out to be fairly harmless it has already caused significant disruption, including the cancellation of a major WTO conference in Geneva, etc. Tlhslobus (talk) 20:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Jehochman above. Unfortunately the news here is not what's IN the news, but the fact that so many ill-informed people are getting stressed and excited about something they know so little about. HiLo48 (talk) 21:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    It's not our role to judge whether the top headlines were chosen appropriately. And I'd argue that a new variant that could prolong the pandemic, potentially leading to millions of deaths and billions in economic losses, is absolutely a story that deserves to be getting the attention it has, even if we don't know everything yet. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 18:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. Like it or not, Omicron is THE biggest story in the world right now and that will continue to be the case for a while. Even if it turns out that the variant is not vaccine resistant, the real world implications in terms of the response by many countries have been major, and there will be further discussions either way about what to do next, including likely implications for speeding up vaccine distribution to the developing countries. We should post items to ITN based on what's actually happening rather than on what we'd like people to think. Nsk92 (talk) 01:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    As I hinted at above, the news here is not so much the existence of this variant, but the fact that so many ill-informed people are getting stressed and excited about something they know so little about. HiLo48 (talk) 05:10, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I follow the experts that says that the new variant is highly dangerous and even have basically closed down the UK and South Africa. Excited? come on.BabbaQ (talk) 09:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Indeed, as we can read here: "The variant harbors a high number of mutations in regions of the spike protein that antibodies recognize, potentially dampening their potency. “Many mutations we know are problematic, but many more look like they are likely contributing to further evasion,” says Moore. There are even hints from computer modelling that B.1.1.529 could dodge immunity conferred by another component of the immune system called T cells, says Moore.....Moore says breakthrough infections have been reported in South Africa among people who have received any of the three kinds of vaccines in use there, from Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer–BioNTech and Oxford–AstraZeneca. Two quarantined travellers in Hong Kong who have tested positive for the variant were vaccinated with the Pfizer jab, according to news reports. One individual had travelled from South Africa; the other was infected during hotel quarantining." Count Iblis (talk) 09:40, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Did they get severe disease, hospitalization, and death? That is what actually matters, not mild / asymptomatic infections. There were lots of cases of mild breakthrough infections with other variants. 2607:FEA8:E31F:FBC1:2D79:6E12:60A:10C4 (talk) 15:34, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • If omicron escapes immunity and spreads better than delta, then this will cause the number of omicron cases to explode but without it replacing the delta variant, because immunity against omicron does not lead to immunity against delta. So, we'll then have two parallel pandemics. Because Delta alone causes capacity problems at hospitals, omicron doesn't need to be worse than delta. If it spreads more rapidly than delta, then even with a smaller hospitalization rate you can still get a huge peak in hospitalizations. Even if it is so benign that such a peak is relatively small, this will still add to the hospitalized delta-variant patients, so even in that case it will be bad news. Count Iblis (talk) 15:59, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Any claim that it is a complete vaccine escape variant is speculation. Lots of people said the same about earlier variants like the mu variant and beta variant, there was a drop in neutralization effectiveness but the vaccine was still effective. 2607:FEA8:E31F:FBC1:2D79:6E12:60A:10C4 (talk) 16:28, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • A suggestion to those who support posting this: try reframing the blurb. The news here is not a science story, but it might be a social story about governments panicking (or grandstanding) after being burned before. Unfortunately the travel bans will solve nothing because this variant has already dispersed, and the variant doesn't care whether somebody is a citizen of one country or another. (The travel bans have exemptions allowing expatriates to return home.) If it's bad, it's going to trigger another wave. If it's not that bad, then this is much ado about nothing. We cannot know at this time which scenario will follow. Jehochman Talk 13:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
There is now an altblurb to that effect, but the problem is that there are a large number of small consequences, which arguably justify posting collectively but probably not individually (the current altblurb is mentioning what arguably looks like "just another travel ban, which happen all the time"), and it's seemingly hard to phrase an altblurb to say this acceptably. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Coverage about this variant is mostly speculation. Not everything is bad, for instance there are preliminary reports that this variant tends to produce less severe infections (like the other stuff, this is preliminary, it will take time to confirm or disprove). Many of the support votes are speculating, see WP:CRYSTAL. 2607:FEA8:E31F:FBC1:2D79:6E12:60A:10C4 (talk) 15:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Time to close? I'm a 'Support' but, if I have not miscounted, I make the current count 13 Supports to 11 Opposes (counting the Skeptical and Add to Ongoing as Opposes), so seemingly not much likelihood of a 2 to 1 Supermajority for posting, and closing may help editors focus their efforts on more productive work. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    An unsuccessful close would be yet another piece of evidence that In the News is utterly incapable of actually posting news. There is a slim majority supporting, but this is not a vote, and I think the opposes are largely uncompelling: they say it's just speculation, ignoring the fact that just the reaction to the speculation alone is notable enough to be the top headline worldwide. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 18:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • One more oppose, per Andrew, TRM. Innisfree987 (talk) 18:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2021 Solomon Islands unrest[edit]

Article: 2021 Solomon Islands unrest (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Australian Federal Police take control of the Solomon Islands capital, Honiara, as protests continue for a third day. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​Following a request from the Solomon Islands government, Australian Federal Police take control of the capital, Honiara, as protests continue for a third day.
Alternative blurb II: ​Following a request from the Solomon Islands government, Australian Federal Police and Defence Forces take control of the capital, Honiara, as protests continue for a third day.
News source(s): [4], CNN
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The Solomon Islands capital has been taken over by Australian police. An ongoing section may also be acceptable. Scaramouche33 (talk) 16:56, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support A... friendly invasion? merits a blurb for sure This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 18:09, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment. The Australians were invited in per a treaty, they didn't take over anything and say they are neutral in the dispute. 331dot (talk) 20:04, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. Until the significance of this event is established. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 01:49, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment the infobox and text don't match on the causes (text doesn't mention economic or COVID factors). And blurb seems incorrect, as Australia were invited in, they didn't take over. Joseph2302 (talk) 03:03, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    I used the term "take over" because that's the term used by Reuters and Australian Financial Review. I added an alt blurb for clarification.Scaramouche33 (talk) 06:10, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
    Sadly the AFR is now owned by Rupert Murdoch, a man who has always had a stronger interest in stirring political troubles rather than reporting facts. Using it as a source is little better than using Fox "News". Reuters may well have simply copied the language used the AFR. HiLo48 (talk) 21:46, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I expanded the Background section to include economic factors. The first deaths were also reported from the unrest.Scaramouche33 (talk) 08:24, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – Not largely in the news. – Sca (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. There is more than enough continuing international coverage e.g WaPo, CNN, NYT, Al Jazeera, Guardian, etc. The intervention of Australian troops already makes it much more than an internal unrest story. Plus most of the properties burned are apparently China owned businesses and there are likely to be implications for China's Belt and Road projects in the Solomon Islands. Nsk92 (talk) 02:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    The Australian Federal Police is NOT Australian troops. HiLo48 (talk) 05:07, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    I believe the Australian Defense Forces were also deployed.Scaramouche33 (talk) 05:53, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    Then the proposed blurb is wrong. And we need different sources. HiLo48 (talk) 07:29, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    CNN explicitly says that both Australian police and Defense Force have been deployed. Nsk92 (talk) 10:43, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    Then the proposed blurb is wrong. HiLo48 (talk) 21:45, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Neutral on Posting, but, if we do post, Support Altblurb (or variants) and Oppose Blurb: The blurb makes it look like "Australian Imperialism", which it seemingly isn't (although it may well eventually come to be perceived as such by many, as happened, for instance, with British intervention in Northern Ireland in 1969, and with the Indian intervention in Sri Lanka that eventually led to Rajiv Gandhi's assassination, but we're not in the Crystal Ball business). I may or may not add an altblurb that mentions the Australian Defence Forces per above discussion, although the altblurb may then get a bit long.Tlhslobus (talk) 19:05, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support: Switching from neutral on posting to Support, after giving further thought to the geopolitical aspects, as this seems to be a clear instance of Sino-US rivalry in action. Tlhslobus (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Its now stale as most of the violence and "action" was from 2 days ago. Also cognizant that this seemed to be a protest with a few hundred people, notwithstanding that the country does not have a high population to begin with. 2607:FEA8:41E3:EA00:D9D6:8C9A:90FA:F356 (talk) 01:16, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

(Ready) RD: Aron Atabek[edit]

Article: Aron Atabek (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Eurasianet, Al Jazzera
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Kazakh poet, author, pan-Turkist, and a longest serving political prisoner ShadZ01 (talk) 05:26, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support A well referenced article with a lot of information. --Seyyed(t-c) 06:54, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose looks alright but awards are unreferenced, and I'd have to AGF on the non-English sources. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    Comment: Referenced the Awards section. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 02:44, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good to go now. BabbaQ (talk) 08:40, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support The article is in good shape and well-referenced. Hanamanteo (talk) 10:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment/Suggestion: This wikibio is certainly long enough and carries enough footnotes. However, the prose, particularly some of the longer sentences, could use some copyediting before the link to this wikibio goes onto MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 13:10, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

November 25[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: Dieter B. Herrmann[edit]

Article: Dieter B. Herrmann (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Berliner Kurier
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German astronomer who made astronomy accessible to the public, running a major planetarium in Berlin and appearing on TV. Article created by LouisAlain in March, and referenced then by Grimes2, - not much work was left. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) Listvyazhnaya mine disaster[edit]

Article: Listvyazhnaya mine disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​Over 50 people suffocate after coal dust catches fire in a coal mine in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​At least 50 people are killed in a coal mine fire in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia.
Alternative blurb II: ​At least 50 people are killed in a mining accident in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Reuters, DW
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major disaster in Russia. Currently working on the article Scaramouche33 (talk) 10:53, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support because it's easily important enough & the article is sufficient. If it had happened in the Western world it would be posted within a couple of hours. Jim Michael (talk) 11:54, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • The sad story with a high death toll is ITN material. The wikiarticle, with 250 words of prose, is a bit too stubby, though. Any more to add? --PFHLai (talk) 12:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support as this seems to be a pretty big disaster. As Jim Michael said, if this had happened in the European Union or North America it would already have been posted. GWA88 (talk) 12:11, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality barely more than a stub. Also RT is a depreciated source, so shouldn't be used, ergo more sourcing is needed. Also, how is the deaths in infobox 52, but 11 in the text? Joseph2302 (talk) 12:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    I added a better source. As for the death toll, I believe 11 is the number of bodies recovered (excluding the rescuers who died), but the Russian Authorities state that 51 died because the missing miners are presumed dead. Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I added a few sentences to clarify the death toll. Scaramouche33 (talk) 12:26, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – With the discovery of a survivor, several RS sites put toll at 51 – including 11 bodies found so far. – Sca (talk) 13:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Major disaster. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 20:32, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. Seems to be the 4th most lethal mining disaster in this century. Article is ok. — Alalch Emis (talk) 20:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support article looks better now. Joseph2302 (talk) 03:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted altblurb2. --PFHLai (talk) 04:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Oleksandr Omelchenko[edit]

Article: Oleksandr Omelchenko (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Interfax
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Andrei (talk) 18:24, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support. Everything looks good. Very solid. BD2412 T 03:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Looks ok for RD.BabbaQ (talk) 08:41, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 10:00, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) New Prime Minister in Romania[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Nicolae Ciucă (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Nicolae Ciucă (pictured) is elected by the Parliament as the new Prime Minister of Romania. (Post)
Alternative blurb: A new coalition government led by Nicolae Ciucă (pictured) as prime minister takes office in Romania, ending a nearly three months long political crisis.
News source(s): Politico RFERL
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: ITNR. He becomes head of government after (another) political crisis in the country and has already been sworn in. I'm working on his wikibio, but it is close to being ready. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Romania is a semi-presidential republic, with more limited presidential powers than in other countries with this system, so the PM assumes part of the “administer the executive of their respective state/government”. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Head of gov change is an important event.--Seyyed(t-c) 06:55, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Head of Governmemt is definitely notable. Article looks ok for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 07:33, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good to go. Hanamanteo (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak support change of government is de facto ITNR, and article is just about long enough. Surely there's more that can be said about his government roles though, like what he did in the roles? Joseph2302 (talk) 09:40, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Question: Is "elect" the correct verb in the blurb? It was more of a negotiation than an election. Is altblurb better? --PFHLai (talk) 12:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Agree, there doesn't appear to have been an election to trigger this, so think ALT1 is better. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Yes, but what I mean is that he was elected by a vote in parliament. The same way it happened with Andersson. But I like the altblurb anyway. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:26, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted altblurb. --PFHLai (talk) 19:00, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Ahmed Naser Al-Raisi elected president of Interpol[edit]

Article: Ahmed Naser Al-Raisi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Ahmed Naser Al-Raisi is elected president of Interpol. (Post)
News source(s): The Independent, Euronews, BBC, France 24, AlJazeera, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Election of the president of the world's largest police organisation. Attracted attention due to the questionable human rights record of both the UAE and Al-Raisi. Quite a bit of in-depth coverage of both the election and the run-up to it in international media. 15 (talk) 14:36, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Needs work The election is in the news as I heard a radio bulletin about it myself. But the article needs work as it's currently too much about the controversy with not enough about the man for a biography. For example, I find that he wrote Social & Security Impact of the Internet but the article says nothing about that. I wonder what it says about Wikipedia... Andrew🐉(talk) 09:32, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    I thought about including the book you link, but it was published by a governmental security think tank, so I'm not sure about it's quality and DUEness. I can't say much more about the work, given that it is only held by Abu Dhabi University in print [5]. See my reply to Joseph for your first point below, which I hope can address your concerns. 15 (talk) 12:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    On second thought, I have added a sentence on it in the early career section. 15 (talk) 12:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality the article is way too focused on his controversies, to the point that it violates NPOV in my opinion. More needs adding on the rest of his career- he has worked since 1980, but the only thing mentioned in the first paragraph of the Career section is a controversy. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    Hi Joseph2302, I have added some information on his pre-candidacy career, education and non-policing activities with this edit. Unfortunately, most sources (at least those that I can read) write almost exclusively about his candidacy, with information on other aspects of his life being mostly confined to official puff-pieces with dubious reliability (e.g., https://anr.ae/). 15 (talk) 11:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

November 24[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections


RD: Hermann Bausinger[edit]

Article: Hermann Bausinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Cultural scientist in Tübingen, heading an institute for more than three decades. He had no article in English so far. Sorry for being late, - I was on a short vacation, and two others came first (on the Main page now). Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:41, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Weak oppose Career section a shade too brief to meet minimum standards; body of article with 1.5 paragraphs when 3 is considered the minimum standard. SpencerT•C 11:47, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
    I added a bit. No more time right now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:31, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Mārtiņš Brauns[edit]

Article: Mārtiņš Brauns (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): slippedisc.com, eng.lsm.lv
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Andrei (talk) 18:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

  • A bit short but long enough to not be considered a stub (>300 words) and with enough footnotes across the prose, this wikibio is READY for RD. I wish there were more to read about his music, but what is currently on the wikipage meets the basic requirements for RD purposes. --PFHLai (talk) 22:24, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 22:42, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) Murder of Ahmaud Arbery verdict[edit]

It is unlikely we will reach a consensus to post here. Closing. --Tone 10:44, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Murder of Ahmaud Arbery (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​All three men, George McMichael, Travis McMichael, and William Bryan Jr., are found guilty in the Murder of Ahmaud Arbery (Post)
News source(s): CNN, The New York Times BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Ending to a major court case related to racial issues in the US. Andise1 (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Is it really necessary to discuss such a case again? I refer to here. Yet another case with zero international impact and interest, yet another case of a purely local trial. Far from being akin to the conviction for the murder of George Floyd. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:46, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Alsoriano97 If "international impact" was required for postings, very little would be posted. 331dot (talk) 20:47, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes, but it should be much more decisive when it comes to court rulings than in other cases (sports, science, elections...). If the follow-up of a trial has a very low international coverage/interest, will you tell me that it's not an important requirement to take into account when determining whether a court case is blurb-worthy or not? So many people are condemned every day in this world... _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Respectfully, we aren't talking about someone convicted of robbing the corner store, but a black man who was murdered basically for being in the wrong neighborhood in a part of the United States where convictions for this sort of thing are rare. And as I said, this incident has influenced changes in laws. 331dot (talk) 21:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes, laws of a single U.S. state (as far as I know). If it were at the federal level I might come to support it, but not at this one. And many are the events that trigger legislative changes. And without a doubt, the article is in excellent shape. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:35, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. This was a highly followed trial in the US, and even before the verdict this incident resulted in changes in Georgia law(the elimination of citizens' arrests). 331dot (talk) 20:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Article is also of decent quality from what I can see. 331dot (talk) 20:57, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support -- this verdict is likely to influence future trials of this type in the United States, and it is an historic decision in an area of the country known for its virulent racism. I doubt a jury would have reached this verdict in that area even 20 years ago. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:47, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support High profile case with notable legal impact, quality article. SpencerT•C 21:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a newsworthy verdict, and the article is in good shape from a skim-through. -- Tavix (talk) 21:56, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose people found guilty of crime that they themselves were stupid enough to video. Seriously. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:18, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose It's gotten a lot of attention for emotional reasons, and on a human level the crime was shocking. But its long-term significance is likely to be minimal. People are murdered every day all over the world. Some get a lot of press attention. We almost never post them. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
It's already had long term significance, both legally and perhaps socially. This was not a garden variety murder. I don't understand this line of thinking more generally. If this event is not notable due to not having "long term significance", it should be proposed for deletion. 331dot (talk) 22:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Not at all, there does exist a middle ground between ITN and AFD. This is a prime example. It's the result of a clear-cut murder case which the perps videoed themselves. A no-brainer. What would have been newsworthy would have been this ending in a non-guilty verdict and the no-doubt ensuing riots. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:34, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
They taped it because they were in their mind attempting to make a citizens arrest(which was banned after this incident) even though they had no evidence of a crime. And in Georgia and elsewhere this is, rightly or wrongly, not clear cut. Even 15 years ago these men might have got off. And there was doubt Derek Chauvin would be convicted for killing George Floyd even though that was on video. 331dot (talk) 22:45, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes, it's nuanced and emotive but ultimately it's just another crime story. It's been whipped up with publicity and is precisely the reason that we need to apply some common sense to these kinds of nominations. It is of minimal long term significance. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:49, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
If this crime had occurred in the 1960s or earlier with the same verdict, I'd support posting due to its obvious significance. But it's not 1961. It's 2021 and in this day and age racial lynchings, when they happen, typically end up with long jail sentences. The man was murdered. His killers were tried and convicted in open court. Where's the long term significance? Again, this is not 1961 where there would have been a great deal of shock at this outcome. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:35, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Then it should be proposed for deletion. I am going to now withdraw from this discussion as I am finding it frustrating that we are drifting away from our mission here. This is on me and me alone, no one else. 331dot (talk) 23:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
I don't think there is any question that this passes WP:EVENT and GNG. But ITN has traditionally had higher standards for posting events. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:31, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Exactly right. There is a middle ground between AFD and ITN, and this article falls squarely in there. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:54, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Article is in good shape, well referenced, and story is currently being adequately covered by reliable sources. Meets all requirements. --Jayron32 22:38, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Similar to the Rittenhouse verdict - limited notability, outcome that isn't nationally or globally significant in any game-changing or important way. Prism55 (talk) 23:21, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose This wasn't a case with the same scope as the George Floyd killing , it had no ties to terrorism and did not create any major unrest from the original event (nor the verdict), and outside of the event, none of these people are notable. This is the type of thing we absolutely should NOT be posting to ITN. --Masem (t) 23:51, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
I vehemently disagree with the idea that there must be global protests and riots in order to post a highly notable criminal conviction. We are supposed to follow the news at least somewhat and we have a great article to feature. 331dot (talk) 23:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
This isn't a notable criminal conviction - all parties involved are BLP1E. It's a highly-covered story, but given the bias our sources have towards US-based stories, this is not a surprise. And no, we're not supposed to follow the news - we aren't a news ticker. That's what the Current Events page is for. --Masem (t) 23:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose this kind of case is fairly common in the US. The focus tends to be on race, not on the facts of the case or the law. If the focus were on the last, then perhaps the law might change in which case there is a long-term impact; since it isn't, if we post this we might as well put "bias in the United States legal system" or some similar article into ongoing. Banedon (talk) 02:18, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
    The law did change in Georgia in response Arbery's murder. The Georgia legislature repealed their statute allowing for citizen's arrest. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Hmm. It's still only one state though. I would prefer to see something at country level. Banedon (talk) 03:24, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Every Black Lives Matter adjacent case isn’t news for the In The News section, unless we come to a consensus that Black Lives Matter should be given special consideration for the section. Trillfendi (talk) 04:40, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • No, we shouldn't be doing that, as it's a WP:BIAS towards American news stories. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:43, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose we don't need to post every murder verdict on ITN. If this wasn't an American murder trial, it wouldn't even be considered here. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:43, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) English Channel disaster[edit]

Article: November 2021 English Channel disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: 27 people die whilst crossing the English Channel (Post)
Alternative blurb: 27 people die whilst crossing the English Channel, in the channel's worst disaster in modern times.
Alternative blurb II: 27 people die when their dinghy capsizes in the English Channel.
Alternative blurb III: ​At least 27 people die when their dinghy capsizes in the English Channel.
News source(s): Telegraph, AP, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Article needs work but clearly a serious incident which should be posted once the page is ready Llewee (talk) 18:54, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Wait ... pending development of article, now a 150-word stub, more than half reactions. Whilst?Sca (talk) 19:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    Yep, whilst.[6]  — Amakuru (talk) 10:38, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Dost thou say 'whilst' in conversation? – Sca (talk) 13:32, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Sometimes, yes. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:33, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Was asking Amakuru. – Sca (talk) 13:41, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Well perhaps next time start chatting on his talk page. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:11, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
I wasn't "chatting," I was asking a question relevant to ENGVAR usage.
(Kindly desist from tutelage, however well meant. Thank you ever so much, TRM.)Sca (talk) 19:00, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
I responded knowing the ENGVAR used by Amakuru would allow "whilst". And in any case, you asked "whilst" in general in your opening post. Good grief. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
WP:TLWSca (talk) 19:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
almost. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:16, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Not quite. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:32, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Since it seems my answer is required here, I'm pretty sure I do sometimes say "whilst" in conversation. There are times when it scans better in the sentence than "while".  — Amakuru (talk) 22:19, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
I only use that word whilst trying to educate lesser breeds without the law. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Forget Stadler and Waldorf, bring in the dwarves. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:15, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. Article is not developed enough to be ready for the main page. If that is fixed, it can be posted. Also, none of the blurbs link the article. That will need to be fixed. --Jayron32 20:04, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    • fixed now Llewee (talk) 21:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Update Toll slid instead of climbing, down to 27. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
    Still thin, with only 112 words of text devoted to the actual event (out of 315 words of total verbiage). – Sca (talk) 13:39, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

  • Oppose on quality the actual section on the Incident itself is too short, as not enough details are known yet. This article is inflated by an overly long background section with tangential relevance to this event (and which is covered in the article on the wider issue anyway), and too many reactions for an article of this size. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
    Agree. – Sca (talk) 13:43, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Question Is this a particularly unusual or notable event? I'm think of SIEV-X. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support once the issues are resolved. Ainty Painty (talk) 03:16, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support because it's important enough & the article is of sufficient quality. Jim Michael (talk) 12:04, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Has now also been the initial cause of a diplomatic rift between UK and France, thanks to our great leader. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:11, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    A s(n)ide show. – Sca (talk) 13:32, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – On article quality. Still too thin (and topic is getting stale). – Sca (talk) 13:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
    Not at all, the topic is front and centre in Europe, and has caused issues between France and the UK. The "migrant crisis" is ALL OVER the news. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support: Looks a bit on the thin side but good enough for ITN. I'd stick this in as the 3rd item. --PFHLai (talk) 08:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 22:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

(Removed) Ongoing removal: 2021 Belarus–European Union border crisis[edit]

Article: 2021 Belarus–European Union border crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: The article has not has any significant updates for a week, and thus fails the ongoing criteria: In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. If there have been significant updates in the last week, these should be added, but right now, this article fails the ongoing criteria. In particular, the last significant update is older than the day of the oldest ITN event (21 November), which is a general rule for something not being updated enough for Ongoing. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Remove. I think Belarus cleared out migrants from the border; Putin must think he made his point. 331dot (talk) 12:28, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Remove. The migrants have been moved away from the border and the situation has calmed down. No longer an ongoing event. Modest Genius talk 13:05, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Although the situation appears to have been at least partially defused, there have been reports in recent days that in some cases Belorussian guards have continued to help migrants breach the border into Polish territory. [7], [8] [9]Sca (talk) 13:27, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Removal from ongoing is based on the article being updated frequently, which isn't the case here. If it gets some regular updates, then it can stay on ongoing. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Remove the existence of news coverage that Sca notes is a necessary but not sufficient condition for maintaining an ongoing link. The article also needs to have been continuously updated. That clearly didn't happen here. --Jayron32 20:06, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – I have read the reports mentioned by Sca. It appears as if the situation have slowed down, but not ended. So still Ongoing.BabbaQ (talk) 20:23, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Removed. SpencerT•C 21:57, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Post-removal comment: – Still going on. A group of about 200 migrants sought to break through the border from Belarus Wednesday night. – Sca (talk) 13:49, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Clearly you're ignoring the bit of ongoing that says In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information. The article is not being updated, which is why it was removed. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Just letting the users know. Część.Sca (talk) 15:09, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Lukashenko went to border on 11/26. [10] [11]Sca (talk) 13:24, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Please add to the article rather than here in ITN/C. --65.94.214.139 (talk) 13:34, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
MYOBSca (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) Magdalena Andersson[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Magdalena Andersson (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Magdalena Andersson (pictured) is elected by the Riksdag as the first female Prime Minister of Sweden. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​Following the resignation of Stefan Löfven, Magdalena Andersson (pictured) is elected by the Riksdag as the first female Prime Minister of Sweden.
Alternative blurb II: Magdalena Andersson (pictured) is elected as the first female Prime Minister of Sweden.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITNR, as it falls under "Changes in the holder of the office which administer the executive of their respective state/government, in those countries which qualify under the criteria above, as listed at List of current heads of state and government except when that change was already posted as part of a general election". First female prime minister of Sweden. BastianMAT (talk) 09:59, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment she takes office on the 26th (according to her article). Until that point, the blurb isn't correct, as she only becomes the first female PM of Sweden on that date. Is it usual to post when it's announced, or when they take office? Joseph2302 (talk) 10:04, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Usually when they are elected but yeah with the blurb of being elected. BastianMAT (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - First female PM in Sweden. But change blurb to ”is elected” instead becomes.BabbaQ (talk) 10:06, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes. BastianMAT (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Significant as new PM and first female. Perhaps the blub should be "elected by the Riksdag" since she didn't gain office through a normal election (by the people). cart-Talk 10:15, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    That's normal in a parliamentary system. – Sca (talk) 15:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment The blurb should probably start with "Following the resignation of Stefan Löfven, ..." to provide context, since this was not an election outcome but a government reshuffle. --Tone 10:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support now the blurb has been changed to "is elected" seems fine to run now. Agree with Tone that we should make it clearer that this wasn't an election that caused this. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Her article looks great, is ITNR and altblurb, although somewhat long, it's the most complete and clear of all. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posting. --Tone 11:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Would suggest that we use the image of Andersson at the front page.BabbaQ (talk) 11:49, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Agree with this, we usually use the image for the newest blurb. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:32, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Post-posting support This is historic. -TenorTwelve (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Since Sweden's in the EU, perhaps she'll become the next Merkel. – Sca (talk) 15:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Then again, maybe not. – Sca (talk) 20:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Update by the nominator Things are looking bad for her and her party now. The Center Party (liberal) voted for the opposition’s budget and it got through. The Center party did not agree with the goverment’s budget, stating it was way too left. That would mean Magdallena now has to rule with right wing economic politics, which she accepted. However their junior party the Green party did not accept it and have left the goverment meaning a new Riksdag election for the prime minister post shall be held. Interesting development. SVT BastianMAT (talk) 16:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Update 2 by nominator Magdallena Andersson has officially resigned. We might have to pull the news back as she won’t be assuming office. She will only assume office if she wins a new prime minister vote, which might take place in a few days/weeks, depending on how the talks with the speaker goes. SVT BastianMAT (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Pull (or update the blurb). Her resignation is quickly making international news. 142.182.136.105 (talk) 17:38, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Update blurb Move over Kim Campbell, there's a new sheriff in town. Or more precisely, there was one for a few hours.Scaramouche33 (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Pull until it's confirmed whether she will now be the leader or not. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose pull What is ITNR is that a few hours ago she has been elected by the Swedish parliament. However much she has resigned. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    • What updating with "and immediately resigns" or something? This is a really weird sequence of events. --Tone 18:21, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Pull - The blurb, as it currently stands, is false.--WaltCip-(talk) 18:50, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Updated to Magdalena Andersson (pictured), shortly after being elected as the first female prime minister of Sweden, resigns. Any further changes, please? --PFHLai (talk) 19:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    • I think this is fine now. --Tone 19:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    • I'm not a big fan of blurbs that contemplate the resignation of a prime minister...But knowing a bit of precedent, it's very likely that in a few days/weeks she will be re-elected, as happened with Löfven in the middle of this year. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 19:48, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    • For the record, I support this new blurb. It will work until she is finally elected the new PM in a few days or at the longest a week.BabbaQ (talk) 20:21, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
      • Thanks. Hopefully, we'll have an update about her taking office soon. That would be a simple update to do. --PFHLai (talk) 20:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Pull -- wait until she actually is seated. She just resigned. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:22, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    The blurb already says that. It's fine. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    It's probably just my own bias here; but it seems silly to post this when she just resigned. Forming coalition governments in a parliamentary system is weird. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:45, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    It's a fascinating and encyclopedic story. Unlike the myriad legal cases being spewed out of the US these days. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support new/current blurb ("Magdalena Andersson resigns shortly after being elected as the first female prime minister of Sweden.") The story remains encyclopedic and newsworthy. Chrisclear (talk) 07:57, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) Double Asteroid Redirection Test (DART)[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Double Asteroid Redirection Test (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​NASA launches DART – the first attempt to change the course of an asteroid (pictured) (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​The Double Asteroid Redirection Test spacecraft is launched on a mission to the asteroid Didymos and its moon Dimorphos (artist's impression pictured)
Alternative blurb II: ​The Double Asteroid Redirection Test spacecraft is launched on a mission to attempt to deflect the course of the asteroid Dimorphos (artist's impression pictured)
News source(s): BBC, Guardian, NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: There's going to be a follow-up launching in 2024 and arriving in 2027 so it's quite a long-term plan. But it's in the news now. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support important mission with global implications, good article. Polyamorph (talk) 08:18, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment. This may be notable as the first mission of its type (to post now); it will be ITNR when it arrives as well. Just saying. 331dot (talk) 08:19, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • This may be ITN/R per "first ... launches of any type of rocket" as it's the first mission to use the NEXT drive but that's debatable. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:09, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • The NEXT is the thruster on the spacecraft, not the rocket that put it up there(a Falcon 9). 331dot (talk) 12:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Such missions usually have multiple stages and each stage has separate rocket engines. The first stage is usually more spectacular but there's no scientific reason to prefer it. For deep space missions lasting years, the efficiency of the final spacecraft will be most important and this is a new design. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:54, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support important global mission (even if it does sound like DART is copying the plot of Salvation (TV series)). Added 3 cn tags to article, but apart from that, it looks more than good enough article quality for the front page. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Everyone in the world should be happy we'll finally have a way to stop any doomsday asteroids from wiping us all out. Dream Focus 11:15, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    If it works, of course... _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:39, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support is ITNR from what Andrew says and the global impact of this mission is undoubted, so it's clearly notable. In fact I think it should be one of the most important scientific news of the year. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:39, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    Global impact?? I thought the idea was to avoid that! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    This event can't be notable, its only impact is on a small unpopulated asteroid! WaltCip-(talk) 14:17, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Impactfulness nonapparent at this pt. in time & space. – Sca (talk) 15:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment the proposed blurb is a mess. I've added alt1, though for some reason that's messing up the template formatting - I can't work out why. Modest Genius talk 13:11, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    Also, this is not ITNR, as it's not a new type of rocket and interplanetary probes are ITNR when they arrive at their destination, not when launched. But the gap here is long enough (ten months) that it's reasonable to post both launch and arrival. Modest Genius talk 13:15, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    @Modest Genius: I fixed the formatting issue. Adding italics to either of the blurbs breaks it, because italics are already applied by default.--WaltCip-(talk) 13:26, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    Thanks. Modest Genius talk 13:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    The fact that the mission is attempting to alter the course of the asteroid makes this particularly notable. Added alt2. Polyamorph (talk) 13:40, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    Alt2 is incorrect. It won't 'deflect the course' of the asteroid. The impact will modify orbit of the moon around the asteroid, not either of their orbits around the Sun. Modest Genius talk 13:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    Dimorphos is an asteroid (albeit a minor one compared to Didymos). It will deflect its course. Nothing to do with the Sun. Polyamorph (talk) 13:46, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    It may deflect its course. – Sca (talk) 15:06, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
    It will deflect it, even if by only a negligible amount. But this is covered by the wording of alt2 "on a mission to attempt to deflect the course". Polyamorph (talk) 15:37, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – From what I've seen, this is such a complicated, long-term project that any significant results may be years off. – Sca (talk) 13:30, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose - no mention of Bruce Willis, Ben Affleck or Michael Bay. But seriously Support, though I'd recommend that gallery be trimmed down. --Masem (t) 15:03, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
You forgot to mention Taylor Swift. – Sca (talk) 15:07, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
@Sca: You mean Liv Tyler :) Brandmeistertalk 20:05, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Guess I spaced her out. – Sca (talk) 15:06, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support ALT2 Very significant, and definitely should be in ITN. Heythereimaguy (talk) 17:36, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support ALT2 – significant, interesting science story. Can "artist's impression pictured" go in the caption not the blurb? User:GKFXtalk 23:22, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support ALT2 Nice addition to the news . --Frmorrison (talk) 00:59, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 01:47, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Very Strong Post-Posting Support - This mission on its own arguably justifies all humankind's entire space budgets to date, and I only heard about it because it was on our front page (I missed most news stories yesterday for medical reasons). Thanks, Wikipedia, and thanks also to all the editors who contributed to the article and its posting. Tlhslobus (talk) 13:47, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

November 23[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime


(Posted) RD: James Fitz-Allen Mitchell[edit]

Article: James Fitz-Allen Mitchell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): News784, The St. Kitts & Nevis Observer, Loop News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Prime Minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1984-2000). Joofjoof (talk) 10:50, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support article looks fine for RD, there's enough content about what he actually did as PM (which is what is sometimes lacking in politicial bios). Joseph2302 (talk) 11:52, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support article is in good shape. KittenKlub (talk) 12:07, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 13:23, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

RD: Omar Malavé[edit]

Article: Omar Malavé (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Nacional, Efecto Cocuyo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Venezuelan professional baseball player, coach and manager. NoonIcarus (talk) 22:37, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose article is a stub (851 characters), needs to be expanded before it will be accepted on RD. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:15, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Bill Virdon[edit]

Article: Bill Virdon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MLB.com
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: GA article – Muboshgu (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support Marking ready. Not sure if there's a consensus for the "managerial career" table needing a ref right in that section in baseball articles but the second external link covers that. SpencerT•C 23:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 01:24, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) Bulgaria bus crash[edit]

Article: 2021 Bulgaria bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​At least 46 people are killed in a bus crash in Bosnek, Bulgaria. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​At least 46 people are killed on the way from Istanbul to Skopje after a bus crashes and catches fire near Bosnek, Bulgaria.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters, dpa
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Needs expansion The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:11, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support once the article is expanded. This is clearly a major tragedy which receives front-page coverage (ended up in an edit conflict while trying to nominate this myself). I've added an alternative blurb to mention that the bus caught fire following the crash as reported in the news.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:20, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment another of my articles nominated by The Rambling Man? Now you're just spoiling me Scaramouche33 (talk) 08:31, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Top news story and completely tragic loss of masses of life. What's not to nominate? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:33, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality right now the article is a stub, but I expect more information will come out at some point today, so article can be expanded. Event itself is ITN-worthy. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:00, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose It's a bus plunge and so just routine news. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:10, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Nope, it didn't "plunge", it crashed into a barrier and then caught fire, killing dozens of people. That's not routine anywhere. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:35, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Over a million people die on the roads every year – that's over 3,000 every day. The coverage of this case says that "there were often accidents in the area". It's routine. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    There may have been many accidents, even some fatalities. That section of road has probably been in need of improvement for decades. But not Europe’s worst bus crash for a decade. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Oh Andrew, if you don't like it, perhaps you should nominate it for deletion? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:58, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support on the merits; major tragedy receiving coverage, something which readers may be interested in learning more about. 331dot (talk) 10:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak support for now. Article is short, but just barely over stub stage. It appears to be fully referenced and not missing any details from what is known now. If the article is expanded as more information comes out (i.e. investigation etc.), consider this a full support. Reliable news agencies are covering the story. --Jayron32 13:11, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - per high number of deaths. Kind of short but expansion is very possible.BabbaQ (talk) 13:13, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Start-class article. Hopefully this story and article will develop further given the significance.--WaltCip-(talk) 13:22, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – Spot news quite widely covered, with substantial fatalities – but general significance may be questionable. – Sca (talk) 13:40, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm not opposing it. – Sca (talk) 15:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Exceptionally awful crash, as bad as many airplane crashes. Jehochman Talk 13:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Awful event with a high number of deaths. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 14:14, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose - no long-term impact, will be gone from the news entirely in a week. Banedon (talk) 14:22, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support now the expansion work has been done. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 14:29, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support the number of victims makes this accident one of those blurb-worthy. And the article is in good condition to be included in the Main Page. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 14:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted  — Amakuru (talk) 15:39, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Pull only significant to Bulgaria - not international news KingOfAllThings (thou shalt chatter!) 20:32, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
I would think that you've been around ITN long enough to know "please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive."--WaltCip-(talk) 20:38, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
It's also untrue - it also substantially affects North Macedonia. Jim Michael (talk) 20:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

RD/Blurb: Chun Doo-hwan[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Chun Doo-hwan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Former President of South Korea Chun Doo-hwan (pictured) dies at the age of 90. (Post)
News source(s): AP, Reuters, NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Comoelto  (talk) 04:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Article is almost entirely unref'd. However, if it can be brought up to scratch in time I'll support blurb. Davey2116 (talk) 05:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality The article needs some ref work. Once its fixed up, I would support a blurb. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:18, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • No Blurb Nothing but death at 90 (but I've nothing against a photo RD). InedibleHulk (talk) 07:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Large swathes of the article have no clear references. Agnostic on blurb vs. RD if the article quality is fixed. --Jayron32 12:54, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose massively undersourced. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:16, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality article is far from ready: needs a lot of sources. Neutral on blurb: I think that being treated as a "dictator" it has enough notability to have a blurb, but I prefer to read what other users think. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:34, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality Roh Tae-woo died a month ago and that article had no chance of being sufficient quality for the main page. This article also has massive gaps right now. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 22:39, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per everything mentioned above. Ping me when fixed and I change to support.BabbaQ (talk) 11:36, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment Citations needed fixing required (cross-cites can be helped through sub-articles), otherwise looks blurb-worthy. Gotitbro (talk) 05:47, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

November 22[edit]

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections


(Posted) RD: Volker Lechtenbrink[edit]

Article: Volker Lechtenbrink (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ + many others
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German actor with a unique voice, used for dubbing and country rock songs, also stage director and theatre and festival manager, remembered for his role in Die Brücke (film) at age 14 (or 15). Article was there but substantially expanded and sourced. Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Support - Fully sourced and ready.BabbaQ (talk) 12:03, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 22:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Babette Smith[edit]

Article: Babette Smith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Australian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian colonial historian, mediator and business executive. TJMSmith (talk) 18:00, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

  • This brand-new (thus DYK-eligible) wikibio has 1838 characters (300 words) of readable prose (thus just long enough, not by much) and enough footnotes at expected spots. I wish there is more to read, but it meets the minimum requirements. This is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 04:14, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support looks okay for RD. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:00, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Indeed, looks good to go.BabbaQ (talk) 12:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 22:35, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Doug Jones (baseball)[edit]

Article: Doug Jones (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 23:07, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

  • I would point out that Doug Jones is a relatively common name(including a former US Senator and a Star Trek actor) so I don't think we should just post "Doug Jones" We discussed this issue once before but there doesn't really seem to be a consensus there. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support looks okay for RD. Neutral on whether we should list it as "Doug Jones" or "Doug Jones (baseball)" as there isn't a clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the name (if there were, we should post with disambiguator, instead of being an WP:EASTEREGG. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:50, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted with his middle name (Reid) included in the link. --PFHLai (talk) 17:41, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

RD: Hilda Múdra[edit]

Article: Hilda Múdra (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): News Agency of the Slovak Republic
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Austrian-born Slovak figure skating coach. TJMSmith (talk) 18:32, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

  • Weak support it's just about longer than a stub. Everything is well sourced (AGF on non-English language sources), would be good to add a little more content if available, though I imagine that may be difficult if sources are all in Slovakian. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:05, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Article lacks 3 complete well-rounded paragraphs for minimum content; one of the paragraphs is 3 sentences and another has 2. Could use a couple additional sentences in Career section for depth but close. SpencerT•C 22:00, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) 2021 Waukesha Christmas parade car rampage[edit]

Discussion is longer the article, time to close. No consensus to post. --Tone 09:32, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2021 Waukesha Christmas parade car rampage (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​Five people are killed and at least forty are injured in an apparent vehicle-ramming incident during a Christmas parade in Waukesha, Wisconsin (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​A Christmas parade car rampage in Waukesha, Wisconsin leaves five people dead and at least forty injured.
News source(s): CNN, AP, BBC, Guardian, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Credits:
 Thriley (talk) 03:03, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Well referenced, vehicle ramming attacks do not occur regularly in the US, and major RS across the world are reporting this. 99.247.176.90 (talk) 03:23, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait only to have more details (eg confirmed number of fatalities, suspected reason for what happened (eg was this intended as an attack , etc?) --Masem (t) 03:33, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Not Ready Support While I agree that this is probably significant enough for ITN, the article is in the midst of a page change discussion and, while there are descriptions of the attack circulating the internet the section on the attack itself is currently only 1 sentence. Rockphed (talk) 04:50, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    • Seeing how the article has improved and that some information is starting to come out, I think this is ready. Rockphed (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait Notable but article lacks information.  Nixinova T  C   05:21, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support alt blurb. In the news and significant. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 05:32, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Article will be updated once more information is known. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose article is barely a stub, appears to be a tragic accident. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:40, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Strong oppose apparently the fall-out from a domestic dispute. No different to a minor (in US terms) mass shooting, while tragic of course. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:21, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose I don't see how is this more notable than 2018 Mishui vehicle attack or 2020 Trier attack, and the article in its current shape doesn't convince me at all. This is most definitely not in the same league as 2016 Nice truck attack, 2016 Berlin truck attack, 2017 London Bridge attack and 2017 New York City truck attack.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:43, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support -- although we should wait until (at least) a suspect is released; as we still don't know what the motive was. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 08:03, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality article is just a stub. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:35, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not terrorism, according to "sources", so whilst tragic, it appears to be a worse-than-usual crime gone wrong. Black Kite (talk) 08:44, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support -- It seems that around five people died in the attack. The perpetrator has been reported by a few media outlets as Daniel Brooks, a black man who raps under the name "MathboiFly" and has tons of social media posts supporting BLM, and this was in the aftermath of a very notable event where Rittenhouse was cleared as killing two black men in self-defence. OldPeace7068 (talk) 09:33, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Complete extrapolation. Police have said they believe he was on the run having committed a separate crime, nothing to do with Rittenhouse at all. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:35, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Wikipedia is there to report the facts. Police and many members of the public initially considered the possibility of Islamic terrorism due to similar incidents in the past involving Muslims, the targeting of a western festival, and the recent rise in Islamic terrorist activity, but police have now confirmed that this is not terrorism related. Similarly, there have been widespread links/controversy made between the rapper and his connections to BLM, and it has been linked to Rittenhouse whether you like it or not. It is part of the story. The killer is a major supporter and activist of BLM. And this happened in the aftermath of Rittenhouse's acquittal. It's all part of the background and developing story. OldPeace7068 (talk) 09:45, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Not at all. The police have stated he was fleeing a separate scene. Conflating this with BLM/Rittenhouse is pure crystal balling. Thanks. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:47, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    "two black men" and you'd think we were on a website about facts... CharredWaffle (talk) 14:04, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Calling this an "attack" may be a misnomer as it appears that the suspect was fleeing the police, not that it was a preplanned attack or terrorism. 331dot (talk) 12:50, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Maybe so. OTOH, at least one report quotes a witness as saying the vehicle seemed to be "targeting people" as it veered from side to side. Also, reports say it crashed through barriers to reach the parade, which seems to indicate that it was indeed an attack, though possibly not a pre-planned one. – Sca (talk) 16:20, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment The blurb should (and currently does not) mention the country in which this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 12:56, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose - It's not at all clear that this is an act of terrorism, and thus not something that would be imminently notable.--WaltCip-(talk) 13:09, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose both on merit and article quality. As of this comment, the incident does not appear to have been a deliberate attack. I would be open to reconsideration if contrary information comes to light. Also, at present the article is little more than an oversized stub. It's not ready for the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support ... pending expansion of article, which presently comprises a mere 250 words, i.e. a stub. Seems to be the No. 1 story on main RS sites today. Note 40+ injuries. (Please spare me the de rigueur "U.S.-centric" harangue. This event is unusual and widely covered.)Sca (talk) 14:34, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Not sure this deserves to be on the main page and the article doesn't look very good. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 15:31, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment If the incident turns out not to be terrorist motivated, I honestly don't see it in Main Page, and if it's , with five dead, I 'mnot very clear, although the number of injured is dantesque. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:51, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    • If this is confirmed as an unfortunate series of events with no purposeful motivating factor (driver escaping from knife fight and inadvertently ran through parade crowd), then I would agree this is not really something that should be posted. This doesn't mean motiveless events can't ever be posted but I would expect the results to be more devasting (like the various major building fires or collapses that we had). --Masem (t) 16:36, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait – As an AP update seems to suggest this was the act of a lone nutcase with a record, I've withdrawn my provisonal support. However, it seems we're still in a wait situation, since nine of the injured are listed in critical condition. If the toll were to rise to double digits, we might still want to consider a blurb about this very nasty event. – Sca (talk) 18:33, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support if the motivation turns out to be terrorism, neutral if otherwise. Mlb96 (talk) 19:04, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    A post – by an IT user with no other contributions – on our article's talk page posits racial motivation. Seems highly dubious at this point, though. – Sca (talk) 19:08, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    See WP:RS. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:11, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Please see expanded comment above. Thanks. – Sca (talk) 19:16, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. This event is in the news and the article looks to be in good shape. -- Tavix (talk) 19:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment: – Since perp's been ID'd & police say he'll face five counts of first-degree intentional homicide, this is looking potentially more significant. – Sca (talk) 20:02, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    Per The Independent this guy had a domestic dispute, and drove his car like a lunatic. Not terror-related, just an idiot behind the wheel. Not significant, tragic, but will never make the top 1000 things that happened on Planet Earth in 2021, let alone the top 250. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:20, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - a mass-casualty event, receiving international coverage (e.g., BBC), a suspect is being charged, and the article has been improved to sufficient quality. Levivich 20:04, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - rare (even in the US) mass-casualty event. Article quality is decent. Destroyeraa (Alternate account) 20:28, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment a road traffic accident in the US is not rare. Mass-casualty events in the US are far from rare. It's pretty obvious that giving this tragic yet non-terrorist/non-BLM/non-protest/non-deliberate accident undue prominence is not what the encyclopedia was designed to do. Of course, you can dig into the BBC website and find coverage, it's all "shock and think of the children" in the US, but the rest of the world has moved on the moment it was clear it was a sad instance of a crime somewhere else having shitty side-effects, and literally nothing more. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:16, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
    • The last time I remember a similar incident happened in the US was late 2017 when somebody plowed into a crowd in Virginia after a violent demonstration got broken up. We posted the event that it was tangentially related to, largely on the strength of somebody plowing their car into a crowd and killing someone. You supported posting it. Rockphed (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
      • If you're referring to Charlottesville car attack, that was about a man deliberately setting out to ram people. This is about a man trying to escape the scene of a domestic incident and getting into a road traffic accident. The two are incomparable. But good try. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Agreeing with previous posters, posting this event would seem to be giving undue weight to a tragic traffic accident. Comparison with the Charlottesville incident from several years back is unfair, given the explicitly political motivations of the earlier event. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 01:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Neutral and Wait Yes, with the additional details that have come to light, this is literally a domestic issue that had decidedly more tragic consequences. However, that is additional details. The initial response, and the fact there were several fatalities during a celebration, caught on camera and shared around the world before anyone knew what was going on, has made this major news and a source of intrigue. I think we need to wait to see if the news stations drop their coverage now that there is less intrigue and crisis; if it has effectively left the news cycle by end of day, take this as an oppose, but if it is still on the news banners, take this as support. Kingsif (talk) 01:42, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • 4 of the 12 paragraphs in this article start "On November 2X". Typical anti-American bias from the Brits (which is far from rare) notwithstanding, the quality is not there yet. GreatCaesarsGhost 02:23, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Tragic, criminally-induced mass-casualty. Significant details are now known. CoatCheck (talk) 03:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait It's very clear that there won't be consensus as is, but there may be more of one as things develop. Wait for now. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:46, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Strong Support. This is the deadliest vehicle ramming incident in the United States or Canada since 2018 and the deadliest in the US since 2017. 142.182.136.105 (talk) 07:37, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I see there's been a tragic bus crash in Bulgaria which has killed at least 45 people. It would be safe to presume that supporters of this accident would support the posting of the Bulgarian crash, right? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:09, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Nominate an article on it so that I can assess the quality. Without knowing what we are posting on the main page, it is impossible for me to know if the article is appropriate. --Jayron32 12:56, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Four hours ago.... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    Of course. My incompetency continues to be my defining attribute and sole notable trait. Carry on. --Jayron32 13:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Ha!Sca (talk) 13:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
There's no need to laugh. You, Sca, among all people, are fully aware of my incompetence. --Jayron32 13:50, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment Support – Still in the news. [12] It's a complicated story but a notable event, IMO. Leaning toward support, for all the diff that would make here. – Sca (talk) 13:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Support for multiple fatalities, high number of serious injuries, and widespread news coverage. Jehochman Talk 13:50, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose A tragic event, but it is not a mass-casualty event. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 14:11, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment - We have support and oppose !votes that directly contradict each other in terms of the notability of this event. Some say this is very notable. Others say this is not at all notable. How is an admin supposed to derive consensus from this? --WaltCip-(talk) 15:05, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
By executive fiat. – Sca (talk) 15:44, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Well most of the support votes are from Americans (of those who have userpages), and almost all of the opposes are from non-Americans. So I guess it'll be a coin toss on whether an American or non-American admin decides... Joseph2302 (talk) 15:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
How about one from a neutral country, say Liechtenstein? – Sca (talk) 16:19, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
I voted to oppose as an American ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Oh, you must be from Manchester, N.H., then. – Sca (talk) 16:24, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This at first got attention because it might have been terrorism related, no problem there. But all we are left with now is an accident which leaves 5 death: while tragic, this is sadly an everyday occurrence. We have e.g. this week a ferry accident in Sri Lanka (at least 6 death)[13], 7 death in Greece when migrants flee the police[14], 22 deaths on Lake Kivu[15], nine deaths in a fire in Bulgaria[16], 10 deaths in China after a car crash[17], ... I see no reason to post this, as it is not exceptional, has no lasting importance, and isn't even very interesting (without the terrorism angle). It's a sad tragedy, but a very common one. Fram (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
    I think it is WP:TOOSOON to make a determination as to whether this was an act of terror or not. Terrorism or not, the ramming appears to be deliberate, and it has