Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

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This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.

A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.

Abdelaziz Bouteflika in 2012
Abdelaziz Bouteflika

view — page history — related changes — edit

How to nominate an item[edit]

In order to suggest a candidate:

  • Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated).
    • Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process.
  • Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4 header (====) when doing so.
    • Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb should be written in simple present tense.
    • Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of posting.
  • Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN note}} to the corresponding article's talk page.

Purge this page to update the cache

There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN.

Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template.

Headers[edit]

  • Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with (Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer active.
  • Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the header.

Voicing an opinion on an item[edit]

  • Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do not...[edit]

  1. add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead, explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached.
  2. oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive.
  3. accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN.
  4. comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
  5. oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page.
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Archives[edit]

September 21[edit]

Current events of September 21, 2021 (2021-09-21) (Tuesday)
edithistorywatch

Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

Court ruling on Litvinenko's poisoning[edit]

Article: Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​The European Court of Human Rights rules that Russia was responsible for the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Article is GA but more update is welcome. Per court's ruling, "there was a strong prima facie case that, in poisoning Mr Litvinenko, Mr Lugovoi and Mr Kovtun had been acting as agents of the Russian state" and that it's "beyond reasonable doubt". Brandmeistertalk 11:13, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment The mere outcome of the ruling has no long-lasting impact, unless it results in something that will affect the guilty party, so let's wait to see if the international community follows up by imposing sanctions against Russia.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Agree. By itself, this ruling is more a footnote to the larger story. – Sca (talk) 12:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support we all knew this was the case, but a supranational court declaring it to be the case and even suggesting that it was sanctioned by Putin is noteworthy. If we had a story suggesting that Trump had sanctioned the assassination of Greta Thunberg using nerve agents in Stockholm (for example) then this place would be utterly mad for it. Serious news and high encyclopedic value. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:22, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose This court has no enforcement capabilities, and Russia is not a voluntary member. If it pays the fine, I'll switch. But it won't. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:35, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • Glad you're here for the lulz, just one thing, as per the ECHR article, "International law scholars consider the ECtHR to be the most effective international human rights court in the world". But hey, why let that get in the way of a genuinely encyclopedic news article. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:42, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    I wish you would learn what a joke looks like. I seriously doubt this verdict will be effective. But if I'm wrong, I'll admit you were wiser than me. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    I can help but associate "joke" with everything you and Statler post. There's very little consideration of the encyclopedia in most of it. Whether the "fine is paid" or not, is not really the point, is it? It would be like suggesting that UN sanctions against Israel are of no encyclopedic value. This is an supranational body declaring that Putin sanctioned a nerve agent attack on foreign soil. Meh, perhaps that's just so de rigeur these days, like school shootings in the US, that we can shrug it off. Never mind. The blurb should also indicate the court's decision on Putin's complicity. That would wake up some of the world. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Yes. If a court has no authority to impose its sentence, it's basically a think tank. And this one didn't symbolically fine Putin. It fined Russia. You can't help telling those apart, either, both habits annoy me. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:29, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    I'm not sure how old you are, but it is abundantly obvious that the "fine" is not the point here in any sense. We have an international court now saying that the President of Russia sanctioned the use of a weapon of mass destruction on foreign soil. And yet you think it's just about the fines? It's clear we're talking about different things. Probably best for you to get back with Statler in the peanut gallery. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Can you link a source mentioning this court finding Putin guilty of anything? InedibleHulk (talk) 17:46, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    No, I can't. But I guess it's 2 plus 2, sky is blue etc. Fair enough, but suggesting that the only way this becomes notable is if Russia pays a fine is patently absurd, regardless. Let's get back to new Tube stations and Gaelic football then. Well done everyone! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:29, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    It's libel. And no, I'm not threatening to report you for it, I'm just unilaterally finding you guilty and ordering you to perform 60 hours of community service. I don't care where, when or what. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    "It's libel"? Ok...! See you in another universe where you start taking this place seriously. Of course, you don't. Your contributions rotate around trying to be funny and make no tangible improvements anywhere really. But you've found a Muppet bromance and that's great for the people who tolerate your "input". You do you, I'll keep writing articles and improving Wikipedia for our readers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:26, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    I'll have you know Bailiff Evans is just a guy from work, and I remain steadfastly loyal to my lovely civil partner of 35 years, Mokey Fraggle. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    I guess this is an attempt at humour, from one of our regular muppets. Just highlighting it for those who aren't aware we have a couple of characters who do this kind of thing at ITNC. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Bingo. Small text is attempted humour. Regular text is normally just a plain statement of fact that you can't understand, agree with or appreciate as such and insist on heckling obnoxiously instead. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support posting this determination of an international body. 331dot (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose on update quality; would be full support if more information had been added to the target article. The total added text involves one sentence in the lead and about 3-4 sentences to the body. If this is a major, newsworthy event, surely our article we're going to post to the main page can tell more about it, no? If this is all that can be said on the subject, it isn't newsworthy. If there is more that should be said, but the Wikipedia article isn't including it, then the article is not properly updated. IF this is fixed, consider this a full support. --Jayron32 17:37, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose As per Kiril Simeonovski. Sheesh, "who knew", alas. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

2021 Russian legislative election[edit]

Article: 2021 Russian legislative election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​In the Russian legislative election, the ruling United Russia retain their majority in the State Duma. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, dpa
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I know it's a totally expected and uninteresting outcome, but it's still an election in the largest country in the world. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment The article is in great condition. But the results section needs prose, there is some cn tag out there, the summary should include the results and maybe the "Reactions" section could be expanded. I guess in no time it will be completely ready. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 08:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose Tonight at 11, gravity continues to function This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    And it still rains more or less vertically in Canada, despite our legislature staying mostly the same, so what's the difference? InedibleHulk (talk) 16:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Exactly - article quality issues notwithstanding, this qualifies as ITNR even if the expected status quo remained, and so we would post it regardless. --Masem (t) 16:51, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

September 20[edit]

Current events of September 20, 2021 (2021-09-20) (Monday)
edithistorywatch

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

  • Volkswagen submits an offer of €2.5 billion for French car rental firm Europcar. The deal, which would give Volkswagen 66% of Europcar's shares, has been accepted by the board but still needs to be accepted by regulators in France. Volkswagen previously owned Europcar and sold it to French investment firm Eurazeo for €3.3 billion in 2006. (RTE)
  • Twitter agrees to pay $809.5 million to settle a shareholder class action lawsuit that accused the social media company of painting an overly rosy picture of its future. (Bloomberg)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Sarah Dash[edit]

Article: Sarah Dash (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR, USA Today, NBC News, AP
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Female artist. Article isn't acceptable at this writing. SusanLesch (talk) 17:01, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose per nom. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Let's wait. No need to rush in an assessment, which can begin upon notification here that the article has improved sufficiently. --PFHLai (talk) 17:22, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Hey, we said "at this writing". If dashing in turns out foolish later, any vote can be dashed out. I might even regret that pun when I'm sober, who knows? InedibleHulk (talk) 19:28, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Sure. There are merely 5 footnotes for almost 2000 words of prose. I hope someone can dash in and add more refs soon. --PFHLai (talk) 22:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

2021 Canadian federal election[edit]

Proposed image
Article: 2021 Canadian federal election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​In the Canadian federal election, the ruling Liberal Party, led by Justin Trudeau (pictured), is re-elected to a minority government. (Post)
News source(s): CBC, CTV, AP, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: They might still be counting the ballots but every major news organization in Canada has already called the election; the Liberals will win, and they will not win a majority government. Article is currently undergoing heavy updates. NorthernFalcon (talk) 03:29, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Wait until the morrow Detailed election results (a major part of the article) are still very incomplete at this time. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait until full updates to the article are made per RandomCanadian. Added Trudeau picture as was added for 2019 blurb. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 05:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment Results need prose and there should be a section on "Reactions" and/or "Aftermath". It would be interesting if somewhere there was also a section/sub-section on the anti-COVID-19 measures that have been implemented for the election day. At least when I edit articles about elections I try to put this kind of information. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 08:28, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Several sources relate criticism that this snap election was expensive and a waste of time. – Sca (talk) 12:53, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Agree that this is lacking, and should be added by anybody who has time later today, but the rest of the article, once we can at least put the final number of seats, seems OK enough (the standard for ITN is not FA); and this is a major enough event (national elections) that it probably warrants a wee bit of leeway. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:33, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose I don't care if it's "R" or technically "in the news". Nothing changed. As a voter, I can confirm earlier reports: This snap election was expensive and a waste of time, and that's it. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Strong support once final results come in This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 16:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on article quality. There's no prose synopsis of the election, its results, etc. It's a giant article of tables. If we want to post this article, someone should fix that. --Jayron32 16:11, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Still quite thin – mostly tables & background. – Sca (talk) 22:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Strong support WP:ITN/R is pretty clear that all general elections of sovereign states should be included. No exceptions for snap elections, or re-election. The 2019 UK snap election was included and nothing changed. Arecaceæ2011 (talk) 22:26, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Paul Rusesabagina convicted of terrorism[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Paul Rusesabagina (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​In Rwanda, Paul Rusesabagina is convicted on terrorism charges for the actions of FLN, the armed wing of his political party. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, NYT, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Interesting development for the famous hotel manager, including that he was essentially kidnapped by government agents in order to be tried. Human rights groups are calling this a show trial. Davey2116 (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Leaning oppose - the guy was arrested last year, claiming he was abducted by the Rwandan government, and he's been an outspoken critic of said government for some time. I don't regard today's development as at all unexpected, to be honest; the Rwandan government has a bit of a reputation with Amnesty and Human Rights Watch and so on, for locking up political opponents.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:46, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support It's like the case of Raman Pratasevich which we posted in May. And it's certainly in the news -- I was listening to a report on the radio just now. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak Support but oppose blurb as written. Paul Rusesabagina is considered a political prisoner by the European Union, and his arrest was essentially the same thing as Roman Protasevich, as both involved hijacking a flight. I think the high-profile nature of this arrest makes this noteworthy enough for ITN. However, political neutrality in a blurb will be difficult to achieve. To fail to mention that his conviction was controversial is to give legitimacy to the Rwandan regime's show trial. On the other hand, to do the opposite would be biased in favour of the west. A good, neutral blurb that mentions the controversial aspects of the trial is best here. NorthernFalcon (talk) 18:14, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose article which is a BLP is under-referenced, amongst other issues. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:17, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose sourcing is lacking and also quite a chunk of refs are to his autobiography Bumbubookworm (talk) 02:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) Northern line extension to Battersea[edit]

Consensus to post will not develop.—Bagumba (talk) 08:54, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Proposed image
Article: Northern line extension to Battersea (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​London opens its first tube extension this century, serving Battersea Power Station (pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​The London Underground opens an extension to Battersea
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: This is the most popular news story on BBC News currently. I know this because they have a Most Read sidebar which is a good way to find the best stories. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:56, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Congrats, London. Great news, Govey (irony alert). Martinevans123 (talk) 09:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC) p.s. "first major expansion of the underground since the Jubilee Line Extension opened in 1999"
  • Oppose ITN is not WP:TOP25, nor should it be. Two new stations on top of nearly 300 which already exist. Of very limited parochial interest and practically zero encyclopedic value. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose I'm certain that a tube extension is surely one of the least blurb-worthy things to be nominated. Not even the linked article has any page other than the English one. And just because it's the most popular story on the BBC doesn't mean it can be globally. Good luck if you manage to change my opinion. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • It doesn't have much competition. We've been blurbing a Gaelic football match for over a week now. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:29, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • SFC is blurb-worthy because this was decided by the users of Wiki, who surely did so considering its notability and popularity. Feel free to propose to remove it from that list. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:38, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - the first new stations to open for more than 20 years, on one of the world's most notable rapid transit systems, is significant enough for ITN I would say. This is the kind of encyclopaedic topic which it's good to cover. I would include Nine Elms in the blurb though, as the extension doesn't only serve Battersea Power Station.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:50, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support The first extension to the oldest metro system in the world in over twenty years, and reading Northern line extension to Battersea it is obvious the project has had sustained news coverage and attracted attention both good and bad. "Zero encyclopedic value" is subjective, I completely disagree with The Rambling Man's comment and point to the 89,000 byte long encyclopedic article that has been written about this topic. Alsoriano97's comment appears to oppose inclusion due to a lack of global appeal, one of the arguments to avoid listed above. NemesisAT (talk) 10:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Disagree with me by all means, but don't feel obliged to ping me. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Ah, then I'm sure when the Kongō Gumi opens a new headquarters in I-don't-know-where, there will be blurb and you will support it. It doesn't make sense. This is not for a "London Main Page". _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:30, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Had they considered Battersea?? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    What a bizarre comment. The London Underground is not only old, it is an iconic system and I reckon the trains, stations, roundel, etc would be recognised internationally. However, as I already pointed out, items do not need international interest to appear here. NemesisAT (talk) 11:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Well, if it's truly ICONIC, it's a shoo-in. Has the International Iconography Commissiion certified this status?
– Sca (talk) 12:44, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
London Underground is a Level 4 Vital article. That has to count for something, right? WaltCip-(talk) 12:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
I guess you'd have to ask the three or four people who own run the vital articles "project"... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:00, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I guess a link to Level 4 Vital article might help to get a blurb on Main page. But if the proposed bold link was to a new article for man spills another cup of coffee on the Northern Line, maybe not. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:24, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
It depends on how hot the coffee is. WaltCip-(talk) 17:20, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak support. It's a fairly underwhelming story but we do need new blurbs and the article is in good shape. I've added an altblurb - it's not appropriate to use an image of the power station to illustrate a blurb about a railway line that was built decades later, nor to WP:EGG link to the tube station and call it the power station. Modest Genius talk 11:09, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Yes, it doesn't just serve the power-station-which-is-no-longer-a-power-station anyway? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I can't recall the last infrastructure blurb we posted for comparison, but an extension to an already-extensive network feels far less groundbreaking than where the bar, at least on gut instinct, should be—something on the scale of the Øresund Bridge would probably merit inclusion but not this, for me. 𝄠ʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ꭗ 11:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Agreed - a good example of a metro/subway in the news would be something like "an new extension to the XYZ Subway has made it the largest network in the world" or "first Metro in region ZYX opened today" Turini2 (talk) 11:19, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose Personally a big fan of this extension - I did a big 5x expansion on this article in the last 2 weeks or so. But an extension to the London Underground surely isn't one of the most important news stories around. Isn't the Canadian federal election today? Turini2 (talk) 11:17, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Absolutely. We would post major renovations to New York's metro system, especially if it came to something like replacing its outdated switching system.--WaltCip-(talk) 12:33, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • No, we wouldn't. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:57, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    We absolutely would, because it's New York. It would at least get nominated and last long enough to not be SNOW-closed. WaltCip-(talk) 17:20, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • If it's any consolation, my opinion would be exactly the same. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Per TRM. Not even middling whelming. – Sca (talk) 12:50, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose being probably more interesting than gaelic football isn't a reason to post this(we should judge on ITN-worthiness rather than comparison to other articles). If this were an extension to any other country's large metro system, don't imagine we'd consider posting- Paris is planning 4 whole new lines in the next few years, NYC had multiple extensions in last few year, and I doubt anyone would consider nominating any of these for ITN. Outside of London/England, there is almost no coverage of this event, and the coverage inside England shows this isn't an "earth-shattering" event. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Good for Londoners but irrelevant for the rest. I don't see how this affects 99.9 per cent of the world population living outside of the city, and the benefits measured in 20,000 new homes and 25,000 new jobs can't change my opinion. The article is in excellent shape, though.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Um, do we have an agreed residency percentage criterion for posting new infrastructure projects? Might prove a little contentious? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:37, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • I can't remember to have ever supported posting the completion of an infrastructure project, and that would probably happen if the final product has the distinction of being 'largest', 'longest', 'tallest' or 'deepest'. In this case, nothing makes this extension, not a completely new project, even close to it. Beijing and Shanghai have rapid transit systems with 13 times the total annual ridership of the London Underground, but we didn't even consider posting their most recent expansions a couple of months ago. Similar extensions with much greater impact are being carried out around the world all the time.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Did they make the news? Did they even get updates in our articles? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • It's probably worthwhile to point out that (nothing wrong with this) WP has a number of railfans here that have worked to extensive build out articles on the UK rail system to this level of depth that doesn't happen in other systems. So that this new line has a well developed article is of little surprise while similar expansions elsewhere probably got one or two sentences at most. But that's why we're trying to judge on the overall impact here, and the expansion of one metro public transit system has rather limited world impact. --Masem (t) 14:30, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak support Trying to understand the standalone clarity ("tube" or "line extension" because of the power station mention) of the blurb. Is this something to do with trains or electrical infrastructure? Maybe something to the effect of " In rail transit, service of the London Underground is extended by two miles to the south London district of Battersea" CoatCheck (talk) 13:18, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose, per Rambling Man. "very limited parochial interest and practically zero encyclopedic value" 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:10EC:7D8E:A977:ED64 (talk) 14:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per TRM. One would have to ask if there would be a similar level of support if the NYC Subway opened a new station in a similar fashion. --Masem (t) 14:08, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Sure, I personally would find that more newsworthy than some of the items on the main page today. NemesisAT (talk) 14:17, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose Transport networks are routinely expanded everywhere, especially as population generally is increasing. No indication of any technical/engineering advance or notability Bumbubookworm (talk) 14:57, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment it's interesting to note that the OP's suggestion that being in the BBC's "most read" is a good way to find the best stories, but it's no longer in the top ten, even just a few hours later. I suppose it's all about "today's news is tomorrow's fish and chip papers" with respect to this particular piece of rail trivia. To be fair, it is the 30th story on the UK page of the BBC News website, but so far "below the fold", and way below "BBC Weather presenter pulled over by dog on live TV"... I'd be surprised if it remains there much longer.... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Has made the Evening Standard. Am tempted. Ticks many boxes. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    TBH I would support the nomination of this "doggy affair" for the Main Page. Worse things we've had to see around here. And dogs are cute. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:19, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    As predicted, the Tube story has now rolled off the bottom of even the UK page, and is now 15th on the England page. This is one of the "best stories"? I think the weather presenter/guide dog combo has edged ahead.... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:11, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose because a rail line being extended is commonplace & nowhere near important enough to post. Jim Michael (talk) 16:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support per Amakuru.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment @WaltCip: in fact, we would not post the same thing if it happened in New York --LaserLegs (talk) 21:04, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
The newest NY subway thing was Ida or amongst subway-only things, the yearlong partial L shutdown to repair hurricane damage which wasn't posted. Besides weather stuff it was a replacement NYCS-bull-trans-1-Std.svg station (which was 20m from Twin Towers, far closer than any other subway, crushed by their east wall(s) and was the final train thing to return to normal), it was closed @ 6 opposed no support. The newest besides that was the aforementioned phase 1 of the second East Side Line which had been vaporware for 100 years, relieved massive overcrowding of the East Side Line (25% of the rides in like 4-5% of the miles) and wasn't posted. The newest thing before that wasn't nominated and allowed NYC's 3rd biggest skyscraper forest+3rd tallest building to be built in a subwayless area by connecting it to the busiest subway nexus and completing its 8-way intersection of subways (9-ways including "double bonds"). The new thing before that was an all-new 2009 station that replaced an old one in the same location (meh) and wasn't nominated. The new thing before that was a short stationless bypass cause the wealthiest Queens line was approaching capacity of 2,000 adults/train, ~2 trains/minute and this was cheaper than becoming Earth's first 6-lane subway (hexuple-track/dodecuple-rail). ITN didn't exist then (2001, the first new subway thing since 1989). Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:20, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per many above, does not seem remotely notable enough for ITN. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 05:06, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose I'm disappointed but not surprised that this even got nominated. If there are two things that ITN loves, it's mundane U.S. news and mundane UK news. Mlb96 (talk) 05:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Perm State University shooting[edit]

Article: Perm State University shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​At least six people are killed when a gunman opened fire at a university in the Russian city of Perm. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Developing. Blurb will be updated as more news pours in. Sherenk1 (talk) 08:25, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

  • We've not had a school shooting which killed 8 or more people in the US since 2018. Russia had one this year. This is disingenuous. --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 10:40, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Not at all. The statistics speak very clearly for themselves. You have literally had hundreds of school shootings in the last couple of decades. That is simply not the case anywhere else on the planet. Defending the indefensible once more. Thoughts and prayers etc. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:51, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Yet very few of those resulted in deaths. We already posted a school shooting in a Russian school just 4 months ago. --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 10:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
MissingThePoint.com. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
2008 Jerusalem yeshiva attack (8 dead), Yeshivat Otniel shooting (4 dead), Ma'alot massacre ("When they broke into the classroom where the students were being held, Haribi grabbed a student, Gabi Amsalem, and held him at gunpoint on the floor. Rahim was shot dead but Linou managed to reach the classroom, grab several magazines from the teacher's desk and reload his weapon. He then sprayed the students with machinegun fire and tossed grenades out the window. When a burst of fire broke his left wrist, he threw two grenades at a group of girls huddled on the floor. Several students leaped from the windows to the ground, some ten feet below."), Avivim school bus bombing (3 gun deaths in school bus), Shaar HaNegev school bus attack (27kg missile, 2kg tube). Likely incomplete, with 57 times more population this is equal to 285 similar school gunmen attacks since 1970 in USA or 5-6 per year. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:10, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
All of this is true, and yet has no bearing on the current discussion. Naming random other school shootings neither a) produces news coverage about this school shooting or b) produces quality, referenced prose in the Wikipedia article about this school shooting. Those are literally the only things we need to assess in order to decide whether or not to post this on Wikipedia's main page. There's no need to discuss other matters. --Jayron32 16:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
My mistake, wrong indent. Was giving counterexample to "School shootings anywhere on the planet except for one notable exception are incredibly rare.". Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Still not actually relevant to the discussion on this page, which is where we are trying to decide a) are reliable news outlets covering the story in an appropriately in-depth way and b) is the article quality good enough. --Jayron32 16:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the counter-examples. The rarity of them in locations other than those which are almost literally warzones is more than amply exemplified by your list. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
So can you say except warzones and near-warzones when you say we're the only ones? Thanks. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Peruse the list; the last school shooting in the United States that killed at least 6 people was the Santa Fe High School shooting in 2018. Before this shooting, the last school shooting in Russia that killed at least 6 people was the Kazan school shooting in May of this year. How is a school shooting which kills 6 people notable in Russia but not in the US? -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 22:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Because literally of the sheer volume of school shootings. If you have a hundred a year, then you'd statistically expect one of them to be be bad. If you have two per year, or like in the UK, one per decade, you report them. They're unusual, anomalous events. School shootings in the US are just part of everyday life, regardless of the outcome. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:17, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
6 people is 0.0000041% of the population in Russia. That's equivalent to 13.628 people in the USA! And of course, everyone in the US has a gun. Several, I think. Russians just have those old Soviet guns that don't work very well. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Yes everyone, even premature babies. Except me, I must be the only one. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment This is clearly more notable than similar events in the US where shootings are a daily routine, so the set of criteria for posting shootings there is simply not applicable to this. However, the article is a one-line stub with absolutely no relevant information and there's long way to go even if consensus develops on its notability.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:46, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per now Agree with TRM and Kiril. There's a lot of work to be done on the article so that it can be on the Main Page. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:48, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality obviously we won't post a one-line article, but unless people actually improve it then the discussion of importance is moot. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Agree with Joseph2302. The article is a stub. Unless that improves substantially there's no point in discussing the importance. Modest Genius talk 11:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait – Pending expansion of article. Arguably significant due to rarity, but motive unknown at this pt. – Sca (talk) 12:30, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Strong support This thread is embarrassing. I get that the democratic party operatives writing this encyclopedia would much prefer this massacre to stay hidden because it runs against their narrative of school shootings being a product of lax gun laws, but the arguments these people try to come up are embarrassing. This event doesn't deserve a mention because it's the second major school shooting in Russia in 2 years? Come on. This is just lazy Daikido (talk) 12:54, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Most of the opposes so far have been on quality grounds, so your indignation here seems a little misplaced.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:56, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    What did I just read? _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:59, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Your !vote violates WP:NOTFORUM and not incidentally WP:NPA. I urge you to strike it before it becomes hatted. WaltCip-(talk) 15:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – If the shooter – who was wounded – turns out to be a stereotypical 'disgruntled' loner, it probably isn't ITN/significant. – Sca (talk) 14:25, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Not sure that matters much to the dead people (or their families)? Better to be murdered by a nice family man? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:14, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Well, if his motive was personal rather than ideological, which seems likely since he was a student there, the import of the event would seem somewhat less weighty. (My personal choice: Being blown away by a jilted ex-lover, if I had one. Alas...) – Sca (talk) 15:40, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
I think you can get them ready jilted (for small extra fee). Martinevans123 (talk) 16:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak support pending article expansion. Article is a bit on the short side, would be full support if it were more fleshed out, but it's long enough for the main page and fully referenced, IMHO. The topic is receiving news coverage, so it passes the significance criteria as well. --Jayron32 15:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose because a killing with a single-figure death toll that doesn't have an ideological motive is usually not important enough to post. Deliberate killings of this size happen many times every year. Jim Michael (talk) 17:04, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Many times a year. In which countries? Black Kite (talk) 17:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
I mean in the world as a whole. They're far more common in some places than others, but its relative rarity doesn't make it notable enough to post. Jim Michael (talk) 17:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Ah right. I thought you meant in Russia (where it would be rare). Obviously a shooting like this would be inherently non-notable in the US. Black Kite (talk) 18:04, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Where are all the "other" countries with all these regular school shootings please? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:05, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Jim Michael sorry, perhaps you missed this, where are all these "many times a year" school shootings happening? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
So by this logic, we will post the first school shooting for each of 200 sovereign states, as they are rare in that state. And each state gets one train derailment, and a flood, a military coup...what else? A common place event does not become notable because it's been awhile since it happened here. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:38, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
"its relative rarity doesn't make it notable enough to post." this is literally the best thing I've ever read at ITN. It supersedes anything I've ever read before. By an absolute mile. I guess this was written ironically, but good grief, some of us reading this would think this was utterly insane. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:44, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
I said killings with a similar death toll happen many times a year in the world - I didn't narrow the scope to school shootings. If the same number of people were killed in a house or bar anywhere in the world, it's unlikely it would have an article & even less likely to to be nominated. Twenty people killed at any type of location by any method in Maiduguri, Mogadishu or Parachinar would be ignored by the vast majority. Its tiny stub article would have no chance of being posted. Jim Michael (talk) 22:29, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Well your "scope" is irrelevant to this context then. This was a school shooting. And yes, we know it happens all the time in the US. It happens, but rarely, anywhere else in the world. It's a complex equation, I know, but when I'm looking at the context of a news story, it involves context, and for school shootings, if it's not in the US, then it's almost certainly significant. If it's in the US, then it's business as usual, unless the death toll gets to maybe more than 20 or 30. I think that's just standard here. And suggesting that "Twenty people killed at any type of location by any method in Maiduguri, Mogadishu or Parachinar would be ignored by the vast majority" is utterly missing the point. It's context that's important. And the ignorance of the "vast majority" is not something we should be using as a gauge against which we decide what is and what is not of encyclopedic value. The "vast majority" of readers live in a country where gun crime is accepted and a daily routine, where kids are taught how to deal with "active shooters" etc. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:19, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Do you have any evidence backing your claim that the vast majority of (English language) Wikipedia readers live in the US? Jim Michael (talk) 18:20, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
You first, do you have a shred of evidence that "Twenty people killed at any type of location by any method in Maiduguri, Mogadishu or Parachinar would be ignored by the vast majority"? Let's see evidence for that and then we can go on and discuss that Ameuricans are the most likely readers of Wikipedia. After you. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Last time I checked a long time ago only 46% of readers were American and it was decreasing. That's not a vast majority or even a majority at all. Also I've never been taught active shooter survival ideas at school or had shooter drills or over-the-top wargames with 14-year old girls with a fake gun wound on their head and I'm a millennial, I think that's a modern thing. I did have monthly drills of walking out of the building to practice combustion escape (even if the building is brick) and some places have earthquake and/or tornado drills. In Florida and the Gulf alligators are almost everywhere and can even kill grownups so they teach primary schoolers to zig-zag if one's trying to eat you. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:36, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
46% would be a massive majority ahead of all other demographics. Wow. Thanks for letting us know that. 22:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
I once heard it said that two thirds of readers are American. Or perhaps it was two thirds of editors? I have no idea of the truth of it, anyway, so this is a pointless comment, but that would be in keeping with quite a bit of this thread.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:07, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Uh, what? Of course it would. For example, a earthquake in the UK that killed 20 people would be notable because it literally hasn't happened before. Black Kite (talk) 21:50, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
In 1931 one woman in Hull had a heart attack. And Dr. Crippen's head fell off at Madame Tussauds in London. Does that count at all? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
I mean, a coup, even in a country where they happen often, is inherently notable. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 22:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Successful coups (but not attempts) should be posted. Jim Michael (talk) 22:23, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
More incredible opinions. If there was an attempted coup in the US (!!) it should probably be posted, right? Or in the UK, or France or Germany or Switzerland? Are you being serious? I think we've heard enough from you about these kinds of things to judge your opinion going forward..... The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Still a stub.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Still opposing; barely enough stub level but not enough detail to post.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:54, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support What is in the article should suffice for the time being and this is not the US. Brandmeistertalk 07:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Lacks broad significance. Suggest close. – Sca (talk) 12:57, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm only seeing 6100 bytes of readable prose, we're usually looking for around 15000 to get out of stub range. --Masem (t) 13:25, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
The readable prose tally is currently 1794 according to the tool I use, with 1500 being the threshold at which we usually no longer consider it a stub. The article is still sorely lacking in detail of the event, however, so I wouldn't advocate posting at this stage.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:37, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm now about 10 times more or less confused than before. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
If it's a shrink you need, I can recommend Dr. Pangloss He even made me feel good about DYK.
– Sca (talk) 22:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Beyond a stub, and there may not be much else to add at the moment. Event is more notable than some of the other shootings we have posted in recent times. Hrodvarsson (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    Still less than 400 WORDS (as opposed to meaningless bytes) – no longer a stub, but pretty thin for a supposed internationally significant event (which it ain't, IMO). And what's up with "at least" – don't the Russians know how many were killed? Not good enough. – Sca (talk) 22:16, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
    The article says six; the proposed blurb just needs to be modified. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:02, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

September 19[edit]

Current events of September 19, 2021 (2021-09-19) (Sunday)
edithistorywatch

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Sylvano Bussotti[edit]

Article: Sylvano Bussotti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Stampa
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mostly composer of stage works, but also painter, set designer, opera and festival manager, professor, writer and much more. Died days before his 90th birthday on 1 October, which will be celebrated anyway by a 5-day festival in Florence where he was born. They were practically no references when I looked, it's better now but not perfect. I need a break. the image - cropped from another - is horrible. The Italian Wikipedia has one when he was younger but it's not on the commons (yet). GRuban? Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:40, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Eh... I looked around a bit and couldn't find anything obviously public domain. In my humble opinion, the current photo doesn't look that bad, especially compared to the one on the Italian Wikipedia. Sure, he has (some) hair in that one, but it's much lower resolution, and he's looking off to the side somewhere. It is marked as if it could be copied to Wikimedia Commons, on the theory that it's a "simple" Italian photo before 1976, so if you really want I can do that. It'll be debatable but probably survive review, though the rules for https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-Italy are a bit vague on what it means to be "simple". (For example, it's clearly posed, costumed, etc, but film frames, which are usually posed and costumed, are specifically called out as simple.) --GRuban (talk) 20:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for looking, but don't bother if you don't like it. From the article I get that he was a fascinating vital man, and on the crop I don't see that, mostly to those reflections in his eyes. As you probably saw we have one more on the commons but that seems sort of stretched. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:56, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
ps: I wouldn't take the "young" one for the lead, but for illustrating work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Several more refs - in English! now added. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Primetime Emmy Awards[edit]

Proposed image
Article: 73rd Primetime Emmy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​At the Primetime Emmy Awards, The Crown becomes the first series to sweep the major drama categories while Jason Sudeikis (pictured) wins an award for his role as Ted Lasso. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​At the Primetime Emmy Awards, The Crown wins Best Drama Series, while Ted Lasso wins Best Comedy Series.
News source(s): BBC, NYT, The Wrap,
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Netflix's first big win at the Emmys Andrew🐉(talk) 07:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose lots of unreferenced tables, practically no prose. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:31, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per now ITN worthy, but article is not ready. And why the blurb focuses only on Jason Sudeikis and not also on Jean Smart, who also won the same award but as Lead Actress? _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:32, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • The news coverage highlights The Crown and Ted Lassoo as the two outstanding shows at the awards. The Crown doesn't provide an appropriate picture so Sudeikis seems the best choice, as he's the creator and title character for Ted Lassoo. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    It's usual only to mention the best picture for hooks of this nature, or the one which "sweeps" the awards. If we're going to mention best actor then we certainly have to mention best actress too.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:23, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • It's probably better to mention Ted Lasso as the comedy winner rather than single out Sudeikis, although both shows were able to win all the acting categories for which they were nominated (maybe next season Ted Lasso can get a leading actress nom). rawmustard (talk) 13:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Suggested altblurb reading the headlines, there's so many different ways that the news is focusing on how the wins worked out (victory for the streaming services, sweeps for the Crown, etc etc.) that compared to other cases in recent past where we are calling out a notable factor beyond just the ITNR part (the qualifier winning grand slam, first female jockey to win a major horse race) that it was clear that notable factor was singularly called out by the media, there's just no singular agreement what's the big first here for the Emmys. As such, it is probably best to fall back on how we usually do it and not try to second guess what is important. That is, Best Drama + Best Comedy. --Masem (t) 13:27, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose no prose Bumbubookworm (talk) 15:00, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Needs serious expansion of prose in main body of article to be main page ready. If someone fixes that, it can be posted. --Jayron32 15:57, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Cumbre Vieja eruption[edit]

Article: 2021 La Palma eruption (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​The Cumbre Vieja volcano in La Palma, Canary Islands, has erupted. (Post)
News source(s): El Espanol, The Guardian ABC News, AP, Reuters AFP via Radio France Internationale
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Ongoing event, the eruption started this afternoon, no idea how long it will last for. Mike Peel (talk) 15:29, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Wait I was going to nominate this as the last eruption of this was 40 years ago, but the extent of the eruption is yet known. --Masem (t) 15:38, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Definitely something that's rapidly evolving - not sure at what point the extent would count as big enough?. Anyway, I'd recommend not driving near it... Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
      • Oh this could potentially be an issue, and I know they are evacuating people now, just that could be an interesting thing to watch live streamed, or could be the fear of that major tsunami if it really went. --Masem (t) 15:46, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Reuters has a vid too, but so far it's just smoke. – Sca (talk) 17:19, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
I'm watching [1] (in Spanish), definitely not just smoke - easily visible lava flows!). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait I agree that we have to wait to see what impact it has if we conclude that the eruption of a volcano for the first time in fifty years and in a very little volcanic and seismic country is not noticeable enough. In fact, until a few hours ago it has been a bit "missing" in the national news in Spain. In any case the quality of the article should be fixed. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait – Developing. About 1,000 to be evacuated, says AP. – Sca (talk) 17:16, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    @Sca, Alsoriano97, and Masem: As far as I can tell, over 1,000 people have now been evacuated, with more expected. The eruption is continuing, and has affected properties and roads. Still not sure what the threshold for this being ITN is. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:16, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    A volcano causing evacuations is not a surprise. There is the concern, slim as it may be, this could cause tsumanis that could hit the US east coast if the eruption is large enough, but that hasn't happened yet. --Masem (t) 19:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    @Masem: This is 'In The News', not 'This Is Surprising'. Tsunamis seem unlikely, and I've not been focusing on any of that here - just that there is a significant eruption. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    Mike Peel According to some sources, there are already 5,000 evacuees [2] and this figure is likely to double [3]. Several houses and banana crops are burning, so it could be serious also because this will be for many days/weeks or months. It would be great if more users would join this discussion because I find it very interesting. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:11, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    @Alsoriano97: Europa Press says that the evacuation of 5,000 is under way (not completed), which is consistent with what I've said above (1k so far) + added to the article. It's now night here, so I suspect most of the evacuations will happen during the day tomorrow or a bit later. The total number depends on the area affected, so it's not a final number (worst case is if the flow goes north towards Los Llanos). Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    Thanks for the clarification. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:39, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait untill death count becomes clear. NW1223(Howl at me|My hunts) 20:48, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    The AP report, updated about 21:50, says 5,000 evacuated, eight homes destroyed, but doesn't mention any casualties. Reuters, updated around the same time, mentions "at least three incandescent orange rivers" of lava, but likewise no casualties. – Sca (talk) 22:14, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment: If the Cumbre Vieja wikipage is going to be the boldlinked article in the blurb, please address the {off topic} tag under Cumbre Vieja#Historical megatsunamis soon. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 22:20, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Glad to see that the bolded link in the blurb is now pointing to 2021 La Palma eruption. --PFHLai (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Ongoing I've been following the similar eruption in Iceland which has been evolving for months now. These things can last for years and seem quite unpredictable so ongoing is probably the best place for them. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:24, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    • That's a good idea. I don't think there's a blurb-worthy impact here (yet), but it's certainly in the news and events are continuing to unfurl. Modest Genius talk 11:18, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support as either blurb or Ongoing: at least 5,000 evacuations, 20 houses already destroyed by lava flow.[4] New article 2021 La Palma eruption should be the boldlink IMO. 46.114.1.172 (talk) 09:31, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I just fixed the blurb nomination. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:45, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    I've removed the image: Crater del Hoyo Negro isn't the same as Cabeza de Vaca, I think that was from an older eruption. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 11:23, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Real news, at last. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:29, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Note, however, that Spanish Tourism Minister Reyes Maroto called it "a wonderful show." – Sca (talk) 12:35, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
    Yes indeed. There's No Business Like Volcano Business!! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose At the moment, no demonstrable impact beyond any run-of-the-mill storm or bushfires that never get posted Bumbubookworm (talk) 15:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Not only bushfires [5] [6]. A volcano has erupted near villages, not a little rain has fallen on an island. Let us not trivialize something that is serious. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Its not so much trivializing it, but people residing on a island with known volcanic activity are already at risk. The specific factors here would have been if there was no time to conduct an orderly evacuation (like if the volcano created a lahar), and the potential impact on the surrounding area including the eastern US if it created tsunamis. That homes were destroyed and flora burnt, but no other major lives lost makes this a curiosity in terms of larger news for the time being. But it is still spewing lava and thus far from over. --[[[User:Masem|Masem]] (t) 16:48, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Well, at least from my point of view, the point to take into account is that, although it's a volcanic archipelago, its low level of activity makes an eruption of this magnitude historical and disastrous, even if there are no fatalities (and I doubt it will happen because the management of the warning to the population has worked wonderfully). At least this is how it is being perceived in Spain (something obvious, of course). So I do not think that the possibility of a tsunami reaching the coasts of the American continent is what is remarkable because the probability of it happening is extremely remote. Let's wait and see. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak Oppose for now. The text of the article does not indicate that this eruption has had enough impact to make it a major story in reliable sources, it's barely above a stub. There are some stories out there, but this does not appear to be getting the level of coverage I'd expect from an ITN item. Significant expansion of the article would likely convince me otherwise. --Jayron32 17:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Per Jay, Bumbu – Impact much less, so far, than many other natural disasters. – Sca (talk) 17:39, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Short-and-sweet quality, hot like volcano news and there's more to this world than death. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:12, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment This is still in the news and the article is being updated by colleagues and me. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

RD: John Challis[edit]

Article: John Challis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): onlyfoolsnews@Twitter, Wales Online, ITV, Sky News, BBC, The Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English actor. RD only. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment needs a lot more sourcing. And date of death not supported by sources (which say he died over the weekend). Joseph2302 (talk) 13:15, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Agreed. Date uncertain, but looks like a choice of two. (It is still the weekend). Feel free to improve sourcing. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:19, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose in current state: page needs serious work from dedicated authors. His entire TV career pretty much is condensed into a list sentence. One would think there would be more to write about somebody who published two autobiographies which, presumably, covered his TV work. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:21, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Are you a dedicated author? Do you have his autobiographies? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:08, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • I never said I was either, and I don't see why that prohibits me from making a vote on the suitability of posting this to the main page. If you are defending the quality of the page and believe this is post-worthy, I disagree. Nothing against you or Challis Unknown Temptation (talk) 07:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Your Talk page suggests that you are more than just a drive-by ITN voter. Any improvements you could make would be very welcome, whether or not that amounts to "serious work" or not. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Also shouldn't be posted until date of death issue on talkpage is actually resolved, rather than people just assuming that it happened on 19 September, as that was the date is was announced. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:01, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • The way I'm reading this, the exact date may not be known for a few days, the family kept the death quiet to have a few days of mourning to themselves, and so unless its resolved in a few days, ITN is fine with posting on the date the death was first widely reported. --Masem (t) 23:04, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Yes, but the article states outright that his date of death is 19 September, and keeps getting reverted to this. Which is not acceptable for ITN to out on front page, when there's currently zero reliable sources for that death date (that's the announced date, and The Sun (United Kingdom) also claims it's the death date, but they're a depreciated source). Joseph2302 (talk) 23:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Just to clarify, there's a written rule that says we cannot post until a date of death is fully sourced? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:52, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
No, but we shouldn't be posting an article with an unverified death date on the front page. Would have no objections to it being changed to September 2021, if no source currently exists. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:01, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Date now verified by independent.ie source. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:04, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
This discussion belongs at the article talk page
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I’ve added The Times to the article, which says 19 Sept. (See here) for verification. - 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:4F7:4D9C:9851:1878 (talk) 06:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
That's behind a paywall. The current source, which was SkyNews, did not seem to give a specific date, so I have reverted it. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:45, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
If someone with subscription could check out the Times source, would be good thanks. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:01, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
I have, which is why I added it. There is nothing to say behind paywall sources can't be used. - 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 11:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
It might help if you added a relevant quote from the article into the ref. The date is also now supported by the indepedent.ie source, which has no paywall, anyway. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:07, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
No, there's no point in adding a quote: it's just a date, nothing more. Repeating it in the reference just needlessly bloats out the sources section. Just because you can't see what it says, there is no basis for you to remove a reliable source - just don't do it please. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 12:32, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
WP:PAYWALL is pertinent here and explicitly states not to discount a reliable source on account of cost to access. 𝄠ʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ꭗ 12:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Adding a quote shows that someone who has access has verified the pertinent fact?. It's standard practice. I don't see any "bloat" problem. When did I remove a reliable source there? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:38, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
"Quote=19 September 2021". That's not at all useful to anyone. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:AD17:2D47:C820:DC4B (talk) 12:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Jimmy Greaves[edit]

Article: Jimmy Greaves (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: England footballer, died age 81. Article is a GA. RD only - not blurbworthy 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:4F7:4D9C:9851:1878 (talk) 09:22, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Support - Article is a GA, no issues I can see. Mjroots (talk) 09:42, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Good quality article. Govvy (talk) 10:15, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - Article looks good for RD, RIP Greavsie JW 1961 Talk 10:22, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good and high quality. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:17, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment some lines need sources. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:48, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support there are 3 citation needed tags on an article that long. That shouldn't hold up this RD, as per Wikipedia:In the news#Article quality: one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article. It's a GA after all, so clearly good enough for front page. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:41, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Two {cn} tags left. Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 13:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment RIP Greavsie, a staple of my Saturday viewing as a child. In future, though, could we please fix the citations before posting. That line quoted above does not match modern practice, which is that all uncited material needs to be fixed before posting. GA or otherwise, this is a nadic basic requirement of material we're presenting to our readers on the most visited page of the project.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:38, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Shall we get Wikipedia:In the news#Article quality rewritten? --PFHLai (talk) 22:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
      • Yeah, as Joseph points out above, on an article of this size, a few CNs, particularly on statements that are more factual than subjective in nature, and where the rest of the article is impeccably sources, isn't a holdup for an RD posting. Posting was reasonable. --Masem (t) 22:34, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
        No, it really isn't reasonable. There's no excuse for posting articles that aren't fully cited to the main page, and fixing the citations isn't hard at all when there are only a few of them left. (Unless the facts concerned are unverifiable or inaccurate, of course, in which case it's a much more egregious error to be posting with them included). As PFHLai says, let's change the guidelines because they're out of date. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:25, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
        A small number of {{cn}} tags in a long and otherwise high-quality article is not a reason to hold up posting. It doesn't have to be FA standard. Wikipedia:In the news#Article quality is correct and does match current practice. The same thing happened with Clive Sinclair just a few days ago. Modest Genius talk 11:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
        This just isn't correct. If the article has cn tags, then that means someone has actively identified claims in the article which require citation and don't have one. It's not the same as saying a few odd unimportant details are uncited, it means that more citations are actively needed. We have a template for this, which is {{More citations needed}}, and that's an orange-level tag and therefore an automatic blocker for ITN. DYK and OTD operate on exactly the same principle. If I had seen Jimmy Greaves before posting, then I would certainly have opposed and asked for the necessary cites to be provided, as Alsoriano97 did above. This isn't rocket science, it's a basic main-page standard.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
        Yes, if the situation is bad enough that the orange-level tag is (correctly) applied, that would preclude posting. But three {{cn}} tags on unimportant details in a 4000-word article, that was already assessed as GA, does not justify the tag. Modest Genius talk 16:52, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
        Only 1 {cn} left! --PFHLai (talk) 16:57, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Dinky Soliman[edit]

Article: Dinky Soliman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Filipino Times, CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Member of two president's cabinet in the Philippines. This wikibio needs more refs, but is already close to be ready for RD.--PFHLai (talk) 06:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC) Now, no more {cn} tags left. --PFHLai (talk) 14:32, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Posted to RD. CN tags addressed. SpencerT•C 00:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

September 18[edit]

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(Posted) RD: Jolidee Matongo[edit]

Article: Jolidee Matongo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article looks okay for someone who was in office for one month Joseph2302 (talk) 16:38, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Long enough and has enough footnotes at the expected spots, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 22:08, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak oppose While it's okay not having additional info for his final position since he was only in office for a month, the article should have a little more detail/depth about what Matongo accomplished in his prior roles. SpencerT•C 00:17, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Spencer I have added a few sentences on some things he did as MMC of Joburg. Let me know if that's enough- cannot find much more. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:39, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Sabina Zimering[edit]

Article: Sabina Zimering (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Polish-American ophthalmologist, memoirist, and Holocaust survivor. Died Sept. 6 but not announced until Sept. 18. TJMSmith (talk) 15:14, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Long enough and has enough footnotes at the expected spots, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 23:46, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 00:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

RD: Ali Kalora[edit]

Article: Ali Kalora (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SCMP, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of the most wanted terrorist in Indonesia. Any blurb possibility? Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 13:39, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Support - short but Start status. Looks good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Thanu Padmanabhan[edit]

Article: Thanu Padmanabhan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Padma Shri winning Indian theoretical physicist and cosmologist. Pachu Kannan (talk) 05:00, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Support - fully sourced and ready for RD.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 00:49, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

September 17[edit]

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(Blurb Posted) RD/Blurb: Abdelaziz Bouteflika dies[edit]

Proposed image
Article: Abdelaziz Bouteflika (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Former President of Algeria Abdelaziz Bouteflika (pictured) dies at the age of 84. (Post)
News source(s): France24
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article has been updated and well sourced. President of Algeria for twenty years until resigning in 2019 due to mass protests against his presidency. Influential Arab World political figure. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:27, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Support RD - Article is well sourced. I don't feel this is blurb-worthy, but it is undoubtedly RD-ready. - Floydian τ ¢ 01:13, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Blurb Massively influential figure in Algerian history since the 1960s, and a longtime head of state. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 01:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Probably blurb. What I am missing are some sentences about his life after the resignation. Otherwise, the article is immediately ready for RD. --Tone 07:24, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • @Tone: From what I understood from obits and some articles dating after his resignation, he made few appearances before his passing due to failing health. His BBC obit says that after his resignation he became a recluse. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:26, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Yes, please add 2-3 sentences on that and we have the section covered, until we get the details on the reactions and funeral. --Tone 07:52, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • @Tone: I did a few minutes after your first comment :) backed with the BBC obit. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:59, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb. A 20-year executive president is someone who does pass the unofficial Mandela-Thatcher test for blurbhood. Article looks in decent shape too.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb he was not only notable in his country, which he ruled in an authoritarian manner for 20 years and his resignation marked the end of an era, but also in the entire Maghreb. If he is not blurbworthy, I no longer know who should be. The wikibio is in good shape. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:20, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb A notable politician who ruled a country for 20 years is a textbook example for a blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:22, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support blurb article is in good shape, and long-time leader is blurb worthy (especially when he only left office two years ago). Joseph2302 (talk) 10:48, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Blurb Posted --PFHLai (talk) 14:13, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Post-posting weak oppose blurb I don't think Algeria is one of those "autoblurb former executive" countries like the US, UK, Russia, or China are, and I would not take this posting to set a precedent to that effect. That said, Bouteflika seems to have had a transformative impact on Algeria from its independence all the way to his resignation so this isn't terribly egregious, and I would not pull unless there is strong consensus to do so given how bad a look it can be.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 15:25, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
    Algeria is not a small country, and this guy was its leader for 20 years. He's had a much larger effect on the people he ruled than Gordon Brown, say, even though you're apparently set to "autoblurb" the latter.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:19, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
    I'm generally against autoblurbing deaths, but he was leader for 20 years (which is unusually long), in a country of 44 million people, and he only left office a couple of years ago (which makes it better for the blurb than someone who left office and has been out of the years decades ago, in my opinion). Which is why I supported it, and I think why others did too. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:31, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
    I am aware of that, but I wouldn't consider Algeria a "top-tier" country like the US/Russia/China, where such long tenures are in any event uncommon.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:28, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
    @John M Wolfson: But also it is important to take note about the individual's impact on not only their country but on a global region in which Bouteflika has through his peace treaties with African nations, his grip on Algeria and was deposed during the 2018–2021 Arab protests (a notable protest in the Arab world. His tenure as president is also important to keep note (we posted Hissène Habré and he'd been leader of his country shorter than Bouteflika but nonetheless had a notable impact in Chad and the African region). --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose blurb The guy was convicted of massive embezzlement and his last term was a sick joke as he was almost dead. He was clearly a figurehead for a corrupt elite and so fairly feeble for an African dictator. The idea that he was in the same league as Mandela/Thatcher is ridiculous. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:09, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • All this doesn't in any way exclude having or not having blurb. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:20, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • @Andrew Davidson: per Alsorian97, this isn’t a valid justification for opposing a blurb. The merits for a blurb isn’t if a person has been a good or bad guy, it’s about how influential the person is. When we compare someone using the Mandela/Thatcher rule we are not comparing them based on their “morals” but influence and impact. This man’s influence on the Arab world, African politics and Algeria is evident in his article and global obits being published. Your opposition reasoning holds no merit to exclude him from a blurb. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:00, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Indeed, he wasn't as bad as Thatcher, but few are! GreatCaesarsGhost 23:41, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
I looked through The Times yesterday and it didn't mention him whereas the death of Sir Clive Sinclair got a special entry in the editorial. Even with a blurb on the day after his death, the Abdelaziz Bouteflika page only got 27,590 readers. That's not much more than Thatcher or Mandela get on an average day, years after their death. For our readership, this guy is less significant than Clive Sinclair or Boris Johnson's mother whose peaks were both higher. While the really big death lately is Norm Macdonald. He's the one in the big league, getting over a million readers per day. But, of course, ITN is not running him at all. It's broken. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:44, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
As you are well aware that’s not how ITN works, or is even supposed to work. The only thing that is broken is the broken record of your comments when you don’t like the consensus of how ITN works. Stop whining about it all the time and open an RfC. If it still comes down against you, carrying on not whining. 2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:4F7:4D9C:9851:1878 (talk) 09:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
You must be kidding us. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Please be encouraged to fix up the "broken" Norm Macdonald page so that ITN can run him. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 13:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Maybe The Times gave special attention to Clive Sinclair for being British, as I don't imagine there was the same coverage in the New York Times, Times of India or let alone a non-English newspaper. Johnson's mother and Norm MacDonald also appeal to English Wikipedia's English-speaking audience. Should ITN stop covering science and world politics that get comparatively low viewer counts, and instead cover what's in the WP:TOP25 - the guy from Blue's Clues making videos again, a new Matrix movie, wrestling and Marvel? Would that make it less broken, because we have to cover the most-viewed pages, not the best-written ones? Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:26, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
There's usually a lot going on but ITN covers little of it because it's so broken and unproductive. For example, the top read page yesterday was Robert Durst because of his high-profile murder conviction. That page was read by about quarter of a million people yesterday because it's in the news but it wasn't even nominated for ITN. That readership was about ten times the supposedly big news about Bouteflika. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:46, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
ITN is not meant as a most-read-article list. If you want to replace ITN with an automated ticker of the most read articles, please formally propose that. 331dot (talk) 23:01, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
That has already been done in the Wikipedia app which I browse every day on my phone. That doesn't show the ITN list; instead it shows the top read articles. They are a different mix due to a variety of factors. For example, yesterday the top 5 was Robert Durst; Sex Education (TV series); Michael Schumacher; Norm Macdonald; Cleopatra. I understand most of these but don't know why Cleopatra is attracting so much attention currently. Anyway, ITN is not just missing stuff like Durst. Its other problem is that it's listing stale stuff which just about no-one is reading. For example, the blurb item 2021 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship Final only got about 1000 readers yesterday. That event wasn't very popular to start with and that was over a week ago and so it is no longer in the news. We shouldn't be telling people that something is in the news when it isn't. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Editors often argue events are not in the news. You are free to do so. If you prefer an automated ticker of most read articles, power to you. ITN is not that and should not be that. It's a way to highlight improved articles about topical subjects. 331dot (talk) 23:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
ITN is certainly not ticking; it's more like the stopped clock that's only right twice a day. Here we are another day later and Bouteflika is still the top blurb. The readership is already dropping from his low peak and this shows that his death is no longer in the news. This is not quality; it's misinformation. No other main page section runs the same stale stuff day after day and it's embarassing that the one section which should be following the news cycle fails to do so. The volcano looks like a good story but that's already yesterday's news. I'll help you out with another nomination to get this thing ticking again... Andrew🐉(talk) 07:36, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the nomination. ITN is not and never has been a continuously updated list of news stories deemed the most important. It is a way to motivate the updating of articles and highlight said articles as examples of decent work on topical subjects that happen to be in the news. I again stress it is not a most-read articles list. We can only make new postings when articles are nominated. If you want to see faster turnover, or different things posted, please continue to participate. Thank you. 331dot (talk) 07:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
I think the ITN guidelines make it clear that it is for "notable" topics which have recently been in the news and which have decent articles. The nom process might be a bit slow agreed, but that is reasonable to bring articles up to shape and consider their inclusion. This might disclude a number of articles which gets tons of views and are technically in the news but that is hardly "misinformation" (not to mention that most of the articles that are receiving views would not be notable). Gotitbro (talk) 14:30, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Blurb - after posting. Definitely blurb-worthy. Very notable politician.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:14, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • If Bouteflika is so notable then how come people aren't reading the article? Here we are three days on and the African dictator in the news now is Paul Kagame and his latest victim Paul Rusesabagina, who inspired Hotel Rwanda. We have a nomination for that story but it's mired in negativity, nitpicking and nonsense, just like my nomination of the Emmys. That's what's actually in the news and our readers know it because Emmy-related topics are dominating the top five, as the Wikipedia app tells me. Ted Lasso is doing best because I suppose many readers, like me, hadn't heard of it before as it streams on Apple TV. The key concept of Ted Lasso is that someone who knows nothing about soccer is put in charge of a Premier league team. The idea is he will be so incompetent and dysfunctional that the team will fail. ITN seems to be trying the same strategy! The funny thing is that we just had a football story in ITN too. But that wasn't soccer, it was Gaelic football. So we ran it for over a week, even though no-one was reading it! It has been pulled now – presumably to spare further embarassment – but no other blurb has replaced it. Someone should really make a comedy show about Wikipedia... Andrew🐉(talk) 08:07, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • I see you still don't understand anything, even when so many users have tried to explain it to you in the best way. And that's fine, we all have the right to understand things the way we want. If you think Wikipedia is a comedy to laugh at, you have the "Log Out" button at the top right of your monitor. And don't take this the wrong way, it's humble advice. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • We've told you, Andrew, what the purpose of ITN is and how things work here. If you want to work to change that, to force us to consider what articles are trending at any moment instead of the current purpose, or taken to the exteme, just replace ITN with a ticker of the most-read articles, please go to the talk pages. Note that you are free to support or oppose a nomination based on article readership if you so choose. 331dot (talk) 09:17, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

September 16[edit]

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RD: Casimir Oyé-Mba[edit]

Article: Casimir Oyé-Mba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Citizen, Direct Info Gabon
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former prime minister of Gabon. Joofjoof (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment: This article is really close, but there's a huge gap in coverage between 2010 until his death in 2021 when he was (from what I can tell) in a political role. What happened during this time? SpencerT•C 00:53, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

RD: Jane Powell[edit]

Article: Jane Powell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, People
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article looks to be well-cited other than Stage Work section. rawmustard (talk) 13:49, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment I've added some more tags. The "Filmography" section it's a bit unsourced. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 09:52, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

2021 Bahamian general election[edit]

Article: 2021 Bahamian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​In the 2021 Bahamian general election, the Progressive Liberal Party, led by Philip "Brave" Davis, win the most seats in the Parliament of the Bahamas. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 --Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 06:00, 17 September 2021 (UTC))

  • Oppose on quality and length. Besides, how many seats did the PLP win? I can't find any info here or on Google about that. FWIW, the article about Davis has 3 unsourced sections out of 4 (though it's not bolded). Tube·of·Light 09:36, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose needs basic information like the actual results- the infobox needs updating, as it's saying the winner has 5 seats out of 38? Joseph2302 (talk) 09:49, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment while the PLP has won a majority, not all seats have been declared [9]. We should probably wait until it is completed. Joofjoof (talk) 19:47, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Clive Sinclair[edit]

Article: Clive Sinclair (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pioneer in home computers, founder of Sinclair Research (ZX line of computers). Article is about 75% the way there for sourcing. Masem (t) 18:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment I went in a Sinclair C5 once, back in the 80s, so blurb blurb blurb! (Just kidding).  — Amakuru (talk) 20:38, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    I had a rubber-keyboard 48KB ZX Spectrum. Best. Thing. Ever. RIP Sir Clive. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 20:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    The Rambling Man, It's what I learned to program on. (Even now, off the top of my head without thinking I can tell you that LD IX,#4000 LD DE,#1B00 LD A,#FF SCF JP #556 will load the screen from tape). In some way, the Raspberry Pi is its spiritual successor. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:13, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    @Ritchie333: I never had a ZX Spectrum myself, my parents managed to secure a fancy Macintosh Plus machine from their work instead. You could program on that, but only through an IDE such as Microsoft QuickBasic, which lacked the raw joy of the command line. There were BBC Model Bs and Masters at my school though, connected together via the ubiquitous Econet, so lots of fun to be had there.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:22, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Spent the last hour+ buffing up the article and referencing it. It should be better (I know it can be improved). --Masem (t) 23:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment - I wonder how big of an impact Sinclair has had on the world. The only reason I know his name is because of a passing mention in a printed encyclopedia. Personally, I would be inclined to get this blurbed once quality is improved, but still, are there any people who can give a more detailed tl;dr on the most important things this guy did (I'm guessing he is the UK's most well-known inventor from the late 20th century)? Tube·of·Light 01:56, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    Didn't impact Canada, even to Commodore levels, and only later became marginally interesting here, as a retro gaming figure. No blurb. Still a great keyboard, though! InedibleHulk (talk) 02:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
The ZX Spectrum was really what he is best known for. Represented the dominant low cost microcomputer in the UK market. They were widely knocked off in eastern Europe. The ZX Spectrum had almost no impact on North America but given the highly balkanised computer market at the time not really surprising. Hemiauchenia (talk) 02:40, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
Aight, so he wasn't really as well-known as I thought he was. And for some reason, I forgot that Tim Berners-Lee could be considered to be an inventor! :-P Tube·of·Light 09:23, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
And I just learned Rick Dickinson invented that fantabulous Spectrum keyboard. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:00, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Well written and meets the criteria. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 05:13, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support more than good enough for RD. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:03, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose There are several tags in the article. Hanamanteo (talk) 10:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    "Several" is an exaggeration (unless it can mean anything above 2). I found 3 cn tags all for relatively minor statements, so it's almost ready. Tube·of·Light 10:52, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. The small number of {{cn}} tags are acceptable in an article of that length and they're all on minor points. Good enough IMO. Modest Genius talk 10:47, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 10:54, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I have addressed the remaining "citation needed" tags. I can't really support a blurb because Sinclair wasn't big globally, just in the UK and later on in Europe, as opposed to Steve Jobs who was well-known just about everywhere. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:11, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Dušan Ivković[edit]

Article: Dušan Ivković (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SportKlub, NovaTV
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Basketball player and coach. One of the 50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors. Elected to the FIBA Hall of Fame and also named a EuroLeague Basketball Legend in 2017. DragonFederal (talk) 07:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment needs a lot more sourcing, have orange tagged for more sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Now just the "Career achievements" section that needs sourcing. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:50, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
      • Others have added some general references.[10] The English source seems to cover most except the assistant coach ones; the other two sources are non-English.—Bagumba (talk) 08:56, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 02:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Antony Hewish[edit]

Article: Antony Hewish (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [11]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize-winning radio astronomer, who jointly discovered pulsars (with Jocelyn Bell). Died on 13 Sept but announced on 16 Sept. The article is short but in good shape. Modest Genius talk 12:06, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Support, there is no major problems with the article and it is quite long. Sahaib3005 (talk) 15:02, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Posted --PFHLai (talk) 17:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Post-posting comment it should not go unnoticed that the coverage of the professional career of this Nobel laureate, exclusively, are four lines. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    • I find it thin, too, but not bad enough to disqualify the nom. --PFHLai (talk) 02:55, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    Your monitor must be extremely wide for those two paragraphs to fit on four lines. The article could certainly be expanded, but he really was famous for a single discovery. Modest Genius talk 10:52, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

September 15[edit]

Current events of September 15, 2021 (2021-09-15) (Wednesday)
edithistorywatch

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

  • Property giant China Evergrande Group admitted it is under "tremendous pressure" and may not be able to meet its crippling debt obligations. Angry protesters have been gathering outside the real estate firm's headquarters, demanding to know about its future. Evergrande is holding $305 billion in liabilities on $147 billion in assets reported in 2020. (DW)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

  • Russia demonstrates the use of unmanned ground vehicles in combat formations during the weeklong Zapad joint military exercises with Belarus. The two vehicles demonstrated were the Uran-9, a tracked vehicle equipped with a 30 mm autocannon, machine gun, anti-tank missiles and a flamethrower; and the Nerekhta, equipped with a mounted machine gun and a grenade launcher as well as cargo capacity. (Military.com)

(Posted) RD: Satoshi Hirayama[edit]

Article: Satoshi Hirayama (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Fresno Bee
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Japanese-American baseball, an All-Star twice in Japan. --PFHLai (talk) 10:06, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Lou Angotti[edit]

Article: Lou Angotti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NHL.com; The Philadelphia Inquirer; WLUC-TV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 11:57, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment: This wikibio is long enough and has enough footnotes at the expected spots, and therefore is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 15:27, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • @Spencer and Stephen: was ready to go before the last 3 RDs posted. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:32, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 02:11, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Norman Bailey (bass-baritone)[edit]

Article: Norman Bailey (bass-baritone) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ENO
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Internationally known opera singer, all the big houses and roles. The article was begun in 2006 by Smerus who had forgotten about the then unsourced stub. Many contributors, strange layout, few refs when he died. It's better now I think, actually there's much more detail in sources if someone wants to add. POD vague. Can we assume his last-mentioned residence. There's a cute detail towards the end about his 75th birthday as Sarasto there, which is likely true, but I couldn't find a ref besides blogs such as this. Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:15, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

  • adding: in the list of Deaths we see "death announced on 16 September", however, an IP had posted 15 September as DOD on 15 September, without a ref. Quite likely, if you ask me. So I leave him here for now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    • There's a supporting ref now.—Bagumba (talk) 09:00, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - all looks in good shape to me. Marking as ready.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:23, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posting, all good. --Tone 09:07, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) Aukus[edit]

Article: AUKUS (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​The United States, United Kingdom and Australia make a security pact that will provide Australia with nuclear submarines. (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Latest instalment in geopolitical tensions involving China. The first item in all Aus outlets, the BBC and also CNN Bumbubookworm (talk) 03:13, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Wait Article doesn't yet explain what the US gets for the subs, or how the UK even figures in, nevermind the arguably bigger "key areas" the lead just casually rattles off once, in passing. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose The article does not explain why this is impactful, apart from boilerplate diplomatic statements.130.233.213.141 (talk) 10:25, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support in principle based on this Guardian report which shows it's a major development in international relations and has nuclear proliferation implications. However I agree with comments above that the article is not ready. What's there is well cited and long enough on first glance, but there's very little information about the actual agreement, most of the content is diplomatic reactions. The focus is entirely on the submarines - which are only part of the deal. There's a blurb-worthy story here, it just needs a more informative article. Modest Genius talk 10:57, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment – The global impacts of this deal seem likely to be quite limited. – Sca (talk) 12:38, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I’m pretty agree with Sca (again lol). Why is this agreement more relevant than other international agreements that may be concluded daily? Affecting in the end only Asutralia, what international implication does it have? Is it really the most important thing that this country can build submarines? _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:08, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Article is of sufficient quality, and news sources are covering the topic in a prominent way. Meets all criteria. --Jayron32 12:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support there is ongoing coverage of this (not least because France are pissed about it), and article is good enough now. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:14, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment I don't think this is ready. The reactions from the US and UK would fit in, if there are reactions from Australia. Also, are the subs the key thing? According to the intro, they are one of the things in this pact, together with artificial intelligence, cyber warfare, underwater capabilities, and long range strike capabilities. The blurb should reflect that. --Tone 12:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    The subs were a major point of contention and the main focus of many of the news stories, as the dust-up with France over the matter; Australia suddenly cancelled a large order for French submarines upon signing the pact. See, for example [12], [13], [14]. It's the part of the treaty receiving the most news coverage. --Jayron32 17:24, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Status update I've been busy yesterday, but I've expanded the article, and added a para on computer technology. I could only find one analysis article on it, since everyone has been preoccupied with subs, but not surprisingly the countries are worried about Huawei, Chinese hackers etc etc Bumbubookworm (talk) 21:24, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support article is in decent shape, and currently causing a very big international relations scandal, with France recalling their ambassador. I suggest mentioning that in the hook if this is posted. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:59, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Article in good shape and this is developing international coverage/reaction. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:12, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted. SpencerT•C 03:49, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment Considering the diplomatic fallout of the deal is at least half of the story here, I think the blurb should be updated to include something about the reaction from France, which is unprecedented. Yakikaki (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Agree. What has ended up being more remarkable is the diplomatic crisis with France (and thus indirectly with the EU) than the fact that Australia can build nuclear submarines. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:50, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Yep. The EU also has its "panties well and truly in a bunch" over not even being informed [15]. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) Inspiration4[edit]

Article: Inspiration4 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​SpaceX launches Inspiration4, the first orbital launch of a 100% private crew (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​SpaceX launches Inspiration4, the first orbital launch of an entirely civilian crew
Alternative blurb II: ​SpaceX launches Inspiration4, the first all-civilian orbital spaceflight, as part of a fundraiser for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Crewed orbital launches are ITNR. Planned altitude has not been reached by humans since Gemini and Apollo program in the 60s and 70s. Please feel free to improve blurb and the article. Launch is scheduled for about 3h from now. 2A02:2F0E:D31E:5B00:CDA1:9A50:3A1C:F745 (talk) 21:13, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Support alt blurb Support alt blurb II Very important mission for spaceflight industry and history. Alt blurb sounds better in my opinion; '100%' seems a bit of an odd thing to say. I would prefer if it says "orbital flight" instead of "orbital launch." Lyrim (talk) 00:45, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support as per Lyrim above — prefer "orbital flight" to "orbital launch". Also, replace "entirely civilian" with "all-civilian"? [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 00:49, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support. @John M Wolfson, NightWolf1223, Lyrim, and Osunpokeh: "the first orbital launch of an entirely civilian crew" can be truncated to simply "the first all-civilian orbital spaceflight". It would also be in the best interest to include a mention of St. Jude's fundraising efforts, as it's an important part of the mission; something along the lines of "​SpaceX launches Inspiration4, the first all-civilian orbital spaceflight, as part of a fundraiser for the St. Jude Children's Research Hospital." — Molly Brown (talk) 00:54, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 01:41, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    • @Stephen: Any reason St. Jude was ignored here? — Molly Brown (talk) 01:55, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    • I would also like to see St. Jude mentioned. Lyrim (talk) 02:56, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
      • The notability is that 4 civilians went into orbit, the charitable aspect is incidental. Stephen 04:37, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
        • I agree it would be inappropriate to mention the hospital. Is 'entirely civilian' correct though? The article phrases this as 'private citizens' - it's unclear to me if there's a deliberately distinction between the two. Modest Genius talk 11:03, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
          • Yes, "Civiiian" (and "all-civilian") seems correct, per Reliable Sources. "Civilian" currently appears 10 times in the article, each time in the title of a RS being cited (but currently never in our own editor-created text). By contrast "citizen" currently only appears 3 times, each time in our own editor-created text. So any problem (if there is a problem) would seem to be with "citizen", not "civilian" (but the place for any discussion about that possible problem would be the article's Talk Page, and not here).Tlhslobus (talk) 13:00, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Post-posting comment – How does this affect life on Earth? – Sca (talk) 12:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
    That's not why we post things on ITN. We post things on ITN because they are in the news, AND there is a quality article about them. This meets both qualifications. --Jayron32 12:43, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Post-posting Support – per Jayron22, and per the fact that there was (and is) a clear consensus to post. Tlhslobus (talk) 13:04, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

September 14[edit]

Current events of September 14, 2021 (2021-09-14) (Tuesday)
edithistorywatch

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Ida Nudel[edit]

Article: Ida Nudel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times; Associated Press; The Times of Israel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 22:36, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Long enough and has footnotes where refs are expected, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 03:57, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • @Spencer and Stephen: was ready to go before the last 3 RDs posted. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:31, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted to RD. Sorry Bloom6132 was interrupted when reviewing ITN/C earlier. SpencerT•C 01:33, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • @Spencer: no worries! Thanks for replying promptly. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

(Closed) 2021 California gubernatorial recall election[edit]

Consensus to post will not develop. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article: 2021 California gubernatorial recall election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​Gavin Newsom survives a recall election, the second governor to do so in American history. (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: While generally state-level elections aren't considered important enough for ITN, I think this is an exception. It's the forth recall election in all of American history, in a state with the population of Canada. This has attracted significant media coverage across the US and at least some coverage abroad, such as in the BBC - it's not just a run-of-the-mill statewide election. Elli (talk | contribs) 15:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment The article currently lacks any prose for the results section which is a must for election articles. Agree in the historic nature of the election as it only happened the second time. Even though it may not be a national election, it may be notable enough because of California's size and economy. Showiecz (talk) 16:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose primarily because the status quo was retained, and by a rather healthy majority (63% to 36%). I know there was concern it was going to be tight, and if it actually went to recall as to lead to a potentially GOP governor of California, would drastically flip the US situation around, but that scenario wasn't even close. --Masem (t) 16:07, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose as a non-national election, we have rejected Indian state elections with similar populations for the same reason. The BBC source isn't on the general front page (which encompasses all the important/breaking news), only accessible in the subsection for world news. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:08, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose on quality Lacks prose in the results section.—Bagumba (talk) 16:13, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose - It is, in fact, a run-of-the-mill statewide election - and not even technically an election at that. It may have been newsworthy if the recall had succeeded.--WaltCip-(talk) 16:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
    I'm opposing too but... what? A special election cannot by definition be "run of the mill," which means ordinary. And California has officially called it a "Gubernatorial Recall Election [16]. Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:37, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
    Take a look at this list and you'll see that, while recall elections have only been brought to ballot twice in California, there have been many, many attempts by California assemblymen to recall the Governor or a similarly highly-ranked elected official in the state. This is not an especially uncommon practice in California. WaltCip-(talk) 19:13, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
    I realize the argument I'm making is a stretch even for myself, so I've struck the offending part of my comment.--WaltCip-(talk) 19:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose There has to be a very good reason to post a non-national election, and as this was a comfortable victory for the governor I'm not seeing the significance. Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:27, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose, suggest close regardless of the result; we don't post any subnational politics, and if Cuomo didn't get posted neither should this. Nor are Newsom's statistics as impressive as they initially sound; he's only the fourth Governor in a recall election in American history because only a handful of states even have recall provisions. Also, while I agree that California should be a Level-3 Vital Article and isn't due to what I consider stupid BS, many Chinese provinces and Indian states have "populations bigger than Canada", and we've never posted their subnational politics before.  – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 16:40, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose any sub-national politics or elections. There are other issues with the nomination, but that's the fundamental one. Modest Genius talk 17:56, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above, we don't post sub-national political elections. I could maybe see the argument for posting the election of an autonomous region, or a region that is independent in all but name (e.g. Somaliland), but California is not that. NorthernFalcon (talk) 19:02, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Norm Macdonald[edit]

Article: Norm Macdonald (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Comedian and ‘Saturday Night Live’ star, among other TV appearances. CoatCheck (talk) 19:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment Patchy referencing, as is common of entertainment bios. Hrodvarsson (talk) 20:01, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Longer articles will always have worse referencing, which is why RD is usually filled with crappy stub-adjacent articles about people no one has ever heard of because those articles are incredibly easy to source. Mlb96 (talk) 04:51, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Honestly, article is more than adequate. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 22:17, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Many citations needed, including that filmography section, and the tone tag needs to be addressed. There seems to be too much in the section about his leaving SNL. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:28, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose Nearly all of Works is unreferenced, and deserves the {{unreferenced section}} orange tag. I disagree that the SNL details are UNDUE; That was a significant event in his popular career, which was otherwise a pretty standard one for a stand-up comic.130.233.213.141 (talk) 07:07, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose almost unsourced filmography, and "Leaving SNL" could be shortened slightly as it is too long for one incident- even if that incident is important, seems WP:UNDUE to me. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:44, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Wait As the only comedian who ever inspired me to better myself, and my second-favourite peripheral celebrity of the 20th century, I can't in good conscience oppose getting his name out there. But yeah, our feature on the man, the myth and the legend isn't one of the better the Internet has assembled, to date. Keep on Googling and "borrowing" Norm Macdonald material, though, and I think there's hope for our profile yet! InedibleHulk (talk) 09:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support The article will be swiftly improved, it's Norm Macdonald man. As it happens I feel like this rule should be lightened Comrade TruthTeller (talk) 16:51, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
    The intent of ITN is to improve articles. The incentive is posting to the main page. Posting without fixing is counterintuitive. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:03, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose There are several tags in the article. Hanamanteo (talk) 10:17, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Support -- this article seems ready now. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 02:17, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment There are still 8 {cn} tags. One of the sections carries a {tone} tag. The Works section and the As performer section are largely unreferenced. This wikibio is not ready for RD yet. --PFHLai (talk) 04:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: George Wein[edit]

Article: George Wein (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR Boston Globe
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founder of the Newport Folk Festival and Newport Jazz Festival, some reliable sources (including NPR above) credit him as influential on the development of the modern contemporary music festival. Article almost certainly needs updating and sourcing.  Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 04:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Support – article is well-referenced; now meets minimum depth of coverage for ITN after my edits. —Bloom6132 (talk) 08:40, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Posted Stephen 23:53, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

References[edit]

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