Wikipedia:LGBT notice board/Archive 1
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This page has archived postings to the LGBT NOTICE BOARD from 2005.
Archived talk pages for 2005 can be found at:
Please do not edit this page or add new comments other than to add archived discussions.
- 1 Articles with disputes
- 2 Requests for comment
- 3 Ongoing discussions
- 4 Category for deletion votes
- 5 Templates for deletion
- 6 Resolved disputes
- 7 Recent articles
- 8 Articles needing work
- 9 Missing articles
- 10 Missing Categories
- 11 Relevant user conduct disputes
Articles with disputes
- Heterophobia - An anon user is repeatedly inserting POV claims that heterophobia is rampant among "gynosupremacist" lesbians. Bearcat 03:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- Matthew Shepard. User:SpinyNorman re-wrote the article and is trying to delete the hate crime category. The article is almost entirely (99.9%) based on the murderers account that it was for drugs. It did not even mention the fact that their girlfriends testified Matthew was selected because he was gay and the two men thought a gay man would be easy prey for robbery until I did some work today. Up until now if you had read the article you would have concluded that the murder was random (nothing to do with sexual orientation, with the exception that Matthew may have tried to rape them) and done because the two killers needed drug money and Matthew also did drugs.
- Batman again. A motivated user ("the gay thing is ofending" and "don't spoil this one for us") first deleted all references to a gay reading of the comic, and then changed tack and went on a full scale "pedophilia" assault. He has belabored the article beyond recognition at his point, perhaps to make reverts awkward. Haiduc 04:40, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
- Is Westboro Baptist Church a "cult"? Guanaco 03:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
- Cisgender is a kind of obscure term that's fairly important to trans issues. The problem is that there aren't many good references online, and it's hard to find them without access to a good database or queer studies journals. There's somebody threatening to AfD it because of the lack of Google hits, even though there are a few good references already named on the page. Help out with some academic references, maybe? Dave 02:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
- Cultural appropriation - I added a short paragraph on the metrosexual fashion being an example of the appropriation of gay culture by straights; it was removed with the argument "No substantiation -- and pretty flimsy. Let's not trivialize or distort the phenomenon. Being fashion-conscious isn't proprietary." I've restored it and expanded a bit, but it's true I haven't been able to substantiate it with outside references. Anyone who can help provide some, please do! --Angr/tɔk tə mi 21:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
- Historical pederastic couples - user focused on sphincter-based definitions of same-sex relations persists on removing Plato from list, despite evidence and references supporting the entry. Haiduc 23:07, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
- Heteroflexible --- some users want to move this page to either bisexuality or bicurious. There's apparently been a vote on this already, but there are still, I think, some objections and some good reasons to leave it where it is. Exploding Boy 19:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
- Homophobia -- a single user insists the term is inherently controversial and is attempting to insert that point of view into the article. Exploding Boy 16:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
- Please add American Bison to your watchlists, it is undergoing a spate of deletions of the male buffalo's sex life. Haiduc 19:42, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
- Robert Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell Axe-grinder busy blurring gay side of Boy Scouts founder. Haiduc 03:26, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
- The Aesthetic Realists who would prefer to suppress the information that Aesthetic Realism publicized itself as the "answer" for those who wanted to "change from homosexuality" have taken to silently removing information from that article. It would be very helpful if you'd put it on your watch lists and help prevent this.
- Ongoing problems at Anal sex have resulted in the page being protected. See talk page.
- Reparative therapy anonymous user edit warring, attempting to include dubious evidence using biased sources that the decision to remove homosexuality from the DSM was due to "intimidation". Anonymous user is also editing the Homosexuality article with his anti-gay POV.
- Talk:Transsexual#critical perspective? somebody who claims "transexualism to be one of the most horribly perverse and ludicrous ideas in the world" complains that the article is too "fanboyish"
- Gwen Araujo revert war about whether her murderers detected "that Gwen was in fact a pre-operative transsexual woman" or "that Gwen had male genitalia"
- Genderqueer and genderfuck have a POV warrior who really does not like the concepts.
- The Fred Phelps of Wikipedia (or is he the "homophobia denialist"?) has once again turned his attentions to things gay. Have a look at his contributions and see if you can undo some of the damage.
- Transgender Repeated anon attempt to make up a dichotomy that just doesn't exist; namely, that there are two contradicory definions, one by some "transsexuals" who tried to "hijack" the term or something.
- AIDS in the United States Uncle Ed has "worked" on that one and removed quite a bit of content.
- Ciara Usual removal of the TG/IS bit; a few more eyes to spot that would be nice, but no big business there.
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedians for Decency - attempt at censoring Wikipedia. ~~~~ ( ! | ? | * ) 11:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
- Heather Stilwell, User:Gcapp1959 is opposed to the inclusion of this page on LGBT rights opposition category, yet goes on and on about Stilwell's opposition to LGBT rights on the talk page--BillC38 05:35, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
- Talk:List of famous gay, lesbian or bisexual people, controversy as to whether to add Julius Caesar and Sigmund Freud
- User:Paul August suggests that Caesar denied his relation with King Nicomedes but is unable to find a citation for this claim
- User:Willmcw suggests that Freud may not have believed in his own theories that all humans are at least somewhat bisexual and even if he did he would need a corresponding sex act to be listed
- I suggest that they both be added unless someone can provide evidence that Caesar denied his relation with Nicomedes and that Freud did not believe in his own theories.
- More broadly I reject Willmcw's assertion that you must partake in a sex act to be listed. This is incorrect. The dictionary defines sexual orientation by attractions not sex acts. Otherwise if a heterosexual was raped by a homosexual the heterosexual would now be bisexual for merely being raped.
- Mashhad Article about Iranian city is subject to a concerted cover-up campaign by users of Iranian background invested in suppressing information on recent executions of Arab boys for making love. Haiduc 10:58, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
- Barebacking --- dispute over the actual meaning of the term: does it refer mainly to unprotected anal sex among gay men, or does it mean any for of unprotected sexual activity among people of any gender? Exploding Boy 21:22, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
- Heteronormativity User:Uthar Wynn 01 attached the NPOV tag. Problem is, s/he seems to be complaining about what heteronormativity is rather than what the article says about it. Seth Mahoney 14:54, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
Also, edit war about a rewrite that was below par. AlexR 05:00, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- Anti-gay slogan User:Sam Spade has attached the NPOV tag to the article, claiming it represents a pro-gay POV. Seth Mahoney 01:00, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Update: Sam now wants to use references from the Family Research Council and Fathers for ... something or other (I keep forgetting), two notoriously anti-gay organizations. Exploding Boy 03:54, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
- Homosexuality Haiduc 03:43, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
- Paraphilia over the definition of transvestic fetishism AlexR 04:20, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- Batman Anon deletes academic discussion of history of homoerotic interpretations of Batman and Robin, and no one bothers to revert it, as though it was dirt. Here is the entry on the deletion: 15:38, 17 Jun 2005 126.96.36.199 (Removed homosexual stuff) I do not want to get into a revert war with this bigot, I hope some people here will pay some attention to this. Haiduc 01:31, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I actually am very interested in this sort of interpretation of comic art. I just don't have Batman on my watch list. Thanks for pointing it out. -Seth Mahoney 02:47, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)
- Articulate editor newly re-deletes Batman panel with homoerotic overtones. His reason? "The panel is fcuking stupid. It should not be in here." Haiduc 01:12, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
- Gay Batman in the news: DC Comics files cease and desist order - Outerlimits 04:26, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
- Homosexuality and Christianity
- Gender, particularly ; User:Njyoder made some rather sweeping edits, and he isn't known for accepting other people's opinion.
- The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln (previously titled Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln; POV, weasel phrases, title and article's existence are disputed
- Eli Siegel founder of Aesthetic Realism which promised to "cure" homosexuality. Several supporters of Siegel, or perhaps one supporter from a dynamic IP, persistantly revert the Siegel article to a puff piece and remove any critical info or sources.
- Patpong and Nana Plaza: use of the phrase "kathoeys (transwomen) instead of, or in addition to, women", See discussion at Wikipedia talk:LGBT notice board#Kathoey
- List of transgendered people an AOL editor with a past history of vandalism has been systematically removing three "Catholic" entries on the list over the last few months, by covering over the edits with other edits in the article. The individual has now reverted to the old tactic of strategically placing internal notes within the article to hide the three entries from public viewing.
- Anti-gay slogan - User:Thomas Aquinas believes the article is biased against people opposed to same-sex sex.
Requests for comment
- Peppermint Patty and its Talk page: Trouble dealing with the characterization of Peppermint Patty's relationship with Marcy.
- Pederasty in the modern world; Material of long standing broken out of overlong Pederasty article and set up in its own article is challenged by a user. It would be good to have some people familiar with the topic look over things to make sure that one bias is not replaced by another bias. In particular there is disagreement over integrating conflicting definitions, one more general and another more restrictive.
- Wikipedia talk:Categorization/Gender, race and sexuality is hammering out a tentative policy on this type of categorization; basically, it would allow such categorization if an encyclopedic article can be written about the topic. (Frex, this would permit Category:LGBT writers, since LGBT literature has a particular cultural context which can be encyclopedically summarized, but would not currently permit Category:LGBT linguists.) Discussion is trying to wrap up; could interested parties please offer final comments?
- Heteroflexible - I was unhappy with the neutrality of this article, so I've flagged it and put my suggestions on the article's talk page. Please feel free to contribute any input of opinions.
- Biology and sexual orientation & Choice and sexual orientation, both articles are poorly written and hardly readable. Could use some contributions, a possible source could be this week's eleven page Boston Globe article, "What makes people gay?". I recently renamed the two from "environment, choice, and sexual orientation" to "choice and sexual orientation" and "genetics and sexual orientation" to "biology and sexual orientation". Clearly the prenatal hormonal theories (which contradict the choice crowd) do not belong on the same page, the genetics and hormones are more appropriately pasted together under the umbrella of biology. I also suggest that all contributions from this point forward be required to have footnote citation similar to that seen on intelligent design. This would do wonders to improve transparency and accountability as well as provide a deterrent against original research.
- Category talk:Homosexuality in Singapore vs. Category talk:Sexual minorities in Singapore - Yep, this old debate again. The category was moved to the latter title this morning. I've posted to the user's talk page (User talk:Groyn88) to ask for clarification.
- Image:TGirlsMoviePoster.png and the only article that still uses it, pornography, over the caption of the pic - "ladies" versus transwomen, currently. Problem user is most likely the same person who is engaged in that mindless picture-throwing recently.
- Anal sex -- a user wants to include a lot of irrelevant, poorly written, unnecessary information, some of it speculative. Exploding Boy 19:38, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
- Bareback -- disagreement over the meaning of the term. One user insists that bareback applies to any form of unprotected sex between persons of either gender; I disagree. Bareback is a term that originated and still refers to unprotected anal sex between men. Exploding Boy 19:47, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
- Talk:Clay Aiken - Heated discussion in process about a) whether or not to include a paragraph stating some people think Clay may be gay and b) whether or not to include a link to what may be a website with questionable content. 7 July 2005 16:26 (UTC)
- Now there's a revert war in process over that link in the article. Please help. 8 July 2005 20:45 (UTC)
- Talk:Natalie Wood — one editor has added references to Wood's friendships with gay men, backed up by a citation. Another editor insists on excluding it as "gossip". -- 5 July 2005 11:07 (UTC)
- Another take on the problem might read: One anon editor has added references to Wood's friendships with gay men, backed up by a citation. Another editor insists on excluding it as a disingenious and misleading effort by the anon to ultimately support an assertion in the Elvis Presley article that Presley was gay. 5 July 2005 11:41 (UTC)
- Talk:KJ, Talk:Jamie Denton - are their inclusions in Category:Gay icons (and Category:Sex symbols) verifiable, NPOV and encyclopedic? Samaritan 02:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- talk:International Lesbian and Gay Association. Editorial consensus is needed on how to handle the previous membership in the ILGA of NAMBLA and other pedophile groups. Currently, about 2/3 of the article is devoted to these groups which were expelled in 1994, with very little attention given the the bulk of members or the aims of the ILGA. A better balance should be possible. -Willmcw 23:35, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
- ILGA (talk) I'd like to bump this up. Ongoing dispute related to alleged links between pedophile groups and the gay rights groups that founded the ILGA. User:Lmno continues to add poorly sourced content into the article that would, IMHO, seem to be original research and NPOV - a non-significant minority viewpoint on the evidence. Any comments that would help resolve the impasse would be gratefully received. Axon 21:43, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
- "Around the world" articles: I am currently merging the tables in Gay rights around the world into the table at Homosexuality laws of the world. But there are a slew of "Gay Rights in Foo" articles to link. I'm reluctant to do so until the names are fixed. We certainly need to lowercase "Rights", but I'm wondering if "gay rights" is the right name. Thoughts? Contributions to individual country articles are also very welcome. They were written by an anonymous IP who is not a native English speaker. Most or all of them are also listed in Category:LGBT stubs. -- Beland 06:33, 21 May 2005 (UTC) See discussion at Wikipedia talk:LGBT notice board#Naming of country articles
- Talk:Transsexual, particularly "Requirements Changes", for those interested, also the "treatment" topic. Nick proposes writing parts of the article in a way that I fear violates NPOV (although in other texts I have done pretty much the same thing - only those were political documents, not WP articles). Would like a comment before I edit the text again; if more people agree with Nick, then me edting won't be necessary. -- AlexR 11:26, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
- Categories for deletion/Supercategories and Subcategories - slightly off-topic, a proposal to change how entries are added to multiple categories. I believe this may address the problem underlying the LGBT category controversy. -- Samuel Wantman 19:53, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
- Talk:David Dreier (scroll down a bit, and it's a lot of reading) if you wish to see an experience of consensus that I found worthwhile. If anyone wants to fine tune the David Dreier article further, thinks it doesn't report on the situation of the 2004 election accurately, or still has comments, they would be very welcome: probably best on that article's talk page. Moncrief 19:33, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
- Talk:Set (mythology) should Set (Egyptian god) be described as "gay" or as "homosexual", and should Ash (Egypto-Libyan god) be described as Set's "boyfriend" or "partner" ? ~~~~ 14:45, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
- The Bible and homosexuality numerous issues, including "us" vs. "them" layout. ~~~~ 08:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Note: Please link to discussions on other pages. You can start discussions on the talk page.
- I just started a discussion on Talk:Sex symbol regarding that article's linkage between gay icons and gay sex symbols. Its pretty vague at this point, but I feel that maybe there's something wrong with the way the article connects the two. More discussion would be great.
- Template:Sexual orientation and Template talk:Sexual orientation - besides problems mentioned with the content on the talk page, so far nobody questioned whether this is all that useful in the first place. More comments would be useful.
- What is the correct name? is it LGBT or something else:
- Wikipedia:LGBT notice board/Archive 1#LGBT, queer and definition - about topic names in Wikipedia
- Talk:LGBT - older discussion about topic names in Wikipedia.
- Talk:LGBT#Transgender or Transgendered Which is preferred?
- The ethics of outing on Wikipedia.
- Talk:Oscar Wilde - controversy as to whether to describe Wilde as "gay" or "homosexual."
- Wikipedia:LGBT notice board/Archive 1#Mergers and renames - proposed article renames and mergers.
- Wikipedia talk:LGBT notice board#Categorization of articles proper categorization of LGBT articles
- It hasn't been requested yet, but there's a suggestion that Category:LGBT rights opposition be changed to Category:LGBT political issues, which I fully support, though it does leave certain figures like Fred Phelps without any appropriate category.
Category for deletion votes
- Category:LGBT murderers listed for deletion again (CfD log 2005 December 29) Previously post(CfD log 2005 November 25)
- Category:LGBT criminals also listed for deletion agin (CfD log 2005 December 29) Previously post (CfD log 2005 November 18)* Category:LGBT rights opposition (Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 September 29) -- The result was No consensus (keep).
- Rename Category:Transgender-related topics to Category:Transgender (Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 September 24) -- The result was rename.
- Rename Category:Topics relating to transitioning to Category:Transsexual transitioning (Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 September 24) -- The result was No consensus (keep).
- Rename Category:Topics relating to transitioning to Category:Gender transitioning (Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_October_4 -- The result was Rename.
- Merge Category:Queer Wikipedians and Category:LGBT Wikipedians 20 October 2005 (UTC). The result was No change.
- Category:LGBT philosophers (CFD log 2005 August 30) — The result was defer to Gender, race and sexuality
- Category:Gay icons (CfD log 2005 August 26) — The result was no consensus (keep), unsurprisingly, as it was renominated more or less on "I didn't get the answer I wanted, so I'll just try again" grounds
- Category:Queer Wikipedians and Category:Bisexual Wikipedians (CFD log 2005 August 18) — The result was rename to Category:LGBT Wikipedians
- Category:Gay superheroes (CfD log, 2005 August 9) — The result was rename to Category:LGBT comic book characters
- Category:Limitations on freedom of speech (CfD log, 2005 August 14) — The result was delete; listed here because of "one man's political opinion on Egale Canada"
- Category:Minor Singapore LGBT articles (CfD log 2005 August 1) — The result was merge with Category:Homosexuality in Singapore
- Category:Gay icons (CfD log 2005 July 29) — The result was no consensus (keep)
- Category:LGBT identities vs. Category:Sexual orientation and identity (CfD log 2005 July 26) — The result was no consensus (keep)
- Category:AIDS victims (CfD log 2005 July 25) — The result was No consensus (keep) even though most people did not like the name of the category. Renamed to Category:AIDS-related deaths by User:Bearcat; see discussion here.
- Category:Anti-gay rights legislation (CfD log 2005 June 19) - The result was to rename as Category:LGBT-related legislation
- Category:LGBT rights opposition (CfD log 2005 June 19) - The result was no consensus (keep)
- Category:LGBT Ancient Greeks (CfD log 2005 June 14) - The result was delete
- Category:Homosexual philosophers (CfD log 2005 June 14) - The result was no consensus (keep)
- Category:Philosophers by sexuality and gender (CfD log 2005 June 14) - The result was delete
- Category:Bisexual philosophers (CfD log 2005 June 14) - The result was delete
- Rename Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people to Category:Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender people CfD 2005 May 4 - The result of the vote was rename.
- Reinstate all deleted subcategories of Category:LGBT CfD 2005 May 7 - The categories had been deleted after a debate without most of the people who worked on creating and populating the categories. - The result of the vote was reinstate all.
Templates for deletion
- Historical pederastic couples Haiduc 02:16, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
- Willem de Mérode Haiduc
- Jan Hanlo Haiduc
- Malik Ayaz Haiduc
- The Cairo 52 Exploding Boy 17:02, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
- Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni Exploding Boy 03:44, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
- Male prostitute --NYArtsnWords 19:06, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
- Straight acting
- Guerilla Gay Bar
- Should this one be listed among the Transgender in non-western cultures as well, like Kocek? AlexR
- I think so, though what is not quite clear to me is to what extent the boys were naturally transgendered, versus adopting the transgender role as a professional accomodation. Haiduc 03:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Articles needing work
- Axel and Eigil Axgil plenty of room for expansion; see source website linked from the article SP-KP 23:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
- White Night Riots - expansion requested since May, 2004. -- Beland 07:08, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
- Jonathan Ned Katz - I just created this article. It could probably use a copyedit, and I don't have my copy of The Invention of Heterosexuality handy, so if someone does, it might be useful to check my summary. Also, some info on his other works would be nice, too. -Seth Mahoney 20:28, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
- Euan Sutherland — I just created this article, as I was surprised it didn't exist, but I have work in the morning and it's now 1am, so I don't have time to research the article properly (and my memory of the mid-1990s isn't that great) — OwenBlacker 00:03, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
- Gay has suffered from bizarre and rambling edits and still needs serious work to improve the article.
- David and Jonathan is extensive, and David, but Jonathan is a stub/disambig
- Two-Spirit was either previously Berdache or merged with it or something - the article still can't decided what term it is about. Fixed at least first paragraph, but still not good. Maybe somebody with personal knowledge can help out here. -- AlexR 12:36, 14 May 2005 (UTC) (discussion here)
- LGBT literature - rough ouline of the subject, needs a great deal of work.Ganymead 06:08, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
- Legal recognition of same-sex couples in the United States
- Societal attitudes towards homosexuality
- Sexual orientation and military service - I just created it. -- Beland 02:25, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
- Pedophilia and sexual orientation
- Same-sex attraction -> Terminology of homosexuality. Discussion here
- Pseudo-homosexuality -> Situational sexual behavior. Discussion here. (11 June 2005)
- Anti-gay slogan -> Merge with Societal attitudes towards homosexuality, keeping the list of accusations whole, at the request of Haiduc
- Crystal and sex. I just started this article and have a lot more to add. Exploding Boy 21:28, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
- I think the title "Crystal meth and sex" would be clearer and more precise for the above. Moncrief 07:25, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
- See discussion of page moves on Talk:Crystal and sex.
Religion and heterosexuality -> Merge with Religion and sexual orientation and Religion and sexuality.(done) Religion and homosexuality -> Merge with Religion and sexual orientation(done) Sexual morality -> Move to Religion and sexuality, which is a much more self-descriptive title.(done) Pejorative terms for failed gender roles -> Gender role(done)
- for discussion on the above topics, see Wikipedia talk:LGBT notice board#Missing Articles
Relevant user conduct disputes
Users consistently making edits that could be perceived as homophobic
Blatant or admitted homophobia
- 188.8.131.52 (talk · contribs) - has repeatedly added Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people to articles on serial killers. Many are already filed in Category:LGBT serial killers (which is a potentially problematic category itself), but the user has also applied the category to some articles which contain no indication in either the article or its references that the person ever identified or was identifiable as LGBT, other than a generalized aura of deviant sexuality.
- Aidan Work (talk · contribs) - states at his user page that he hates homosexuals and transsexuals. There is an RfC (Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Aidan Work) on his behaviour which LGBT wikipedians might like to comment on. Adam 21:50, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- 184.108.40.206 (talk · contribs) - persistently adding homophobic POV to articles about historical people who may have been LGBT. Also adding homophobic disinformation to articles on pederasty and Ancient Greece. —Guanaco 02:04, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
- WritersCramp (talk · contribs) - "I am a proud homophobic!" See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/WritersCramp —Guanaco 23:20, 27 December 2005 (UTC)