Wikipedia:Move review

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Administrator instructions

Move review is a process designed to formally discuss and evaluate a contested close of a requested move (RM) discussion to determine if the close was reasonable, or whether it was inconsistent with the spirit and intent of Wikipedia common practice, policies, or guidelines.

Prior to requesting a review, you should attempt to resolve any issues with the closer on their talk page.

While the requested move close is under review, any involved editor is free to revert any undiscussed moves of a nominated page without those actions being considered a violation of Wikipedia:No wheel warring.

What this process is not[edit]

This review process should be focused on the move discussion and the subsequent results of the move discussion, not on the person who closed the discussion. If you have ongoing concerns about a closer, please consult with the closer or post at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Move review requests which cast aspersions or otherwise attack other editors may be speedily closed.

Do not request a move review if someone has boldly moved a page and you disagree. Instead, attempt to discuss it with the editor, and if the matter continues to be unresolved, start a formal WP:RM discussion on the article's talk page.

Do not request a move review simply because you disagree with the outcome of a requested move discussion. While the comments in the move discussion may be discussed in order to assess the rough consensus of a close, this is not a forum to re-argue a closed discussion.

Disagreements with Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions (WP:RMCI), Titling Policy, Manual of Style and Naming Conventions, or Consensus Norms should be raised at the appropriate corresponding talk page.

Instructions[edit]

Initiating move reviews[edit]

Editors desiring to initiate a move review should follow the steps listed below. In the reason parameter, editors should limit their requests to one or both of the following reasons:

  • [Closer] did not follow the spirit and intent of WP:RMCI because [explain rationale here] in closing this requested move.
  • [Closer] was unaware of significant additional information not discussed in the RM: [identify information here] and the RM should be reopened and relisted.

Editors initiating a Move Review discussion should be familiar with the closing instructions provided in WP:RMCI.

Steps to list a new review request[edit]

 
1.

Before requesting a move review: Please attempt to discuss the matter with the discussion closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision. If things don't work out, and you decide to request a review of the closure, please note in the review that you did first try discussing the matter with the closer.

2.

Follow this link to this month's log and paste the template skeleton at the top of the discussions (but not at the top of the page). Then fill in page with the name of the contested move page, rm_page with the name of the move discussion page, and reason with the reason why the page move should be reviewed. For example:

Copy this template skeleton for most pages:

{{subst:move review list
|page=
|rm_page= <!--Not needed if the move discussion is on the talk page of the page-->
|rm_section= <!--Name of the section with the move request.-->
|reason=
}}  ~~~~
3.

Inform the closer of the discussion by adding the following on their user talk page:

{{subst:move review note|PAGE_NAME}} ~~~~
4.

Leave notice of the move review in the same section as, but outside of and above the closed original move discussion. Use the following template: {{move review talk|date=20 July 2018}}. Do not tag the article.

6.

If the current month discussions are not already included in the discussion section below. Add the new log page to the top of the discussions section.

{{Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2018 July}}
7.

The discussion with closer and notices required above are sufficient notification; you are not required to individually notify participants in the prior move discussion of the move review. However, if you individually notify any of them, you must individually notify all of them by posting a message about the move review on each participant's respective user talk page.

 

Commenting in a move review[edit]

In general, commenters should prefix their comments with either Endorse or Overturn (optionally stating an alternative close) followed by their reasoning. Generally, the rationale should be an analysis of whether the closer properly followed Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions, whether it was within administrator discretion and reasonably interpreted consensus in the discussion, while keeping in mind the spirit of Wikipedia policy, precedent and project goal. Commenters should be familiar with WP:RMCI, which sets forth community norms for closers of Requested Move discussions.

If the close is considered premature because of on-going discussion or if significant relevant information was not considered during the discussion, commenters should suggest Relist followed by their rationale.

Commenters should identify whether or not they were involved or uninvolved in the RM discussion under review.

The closer of the Requested Move under discussion should feel free to provide additional rationale as to why they closed the RM in the manner they did and why they believe the close followed the spirit and intent of WP:RMCI.

Remember that Move Review is not an opportunity to rehash, expand upon or first offer your opinion on the proper title of the page in question – move review is not a do-over of the WP:RM discussion but is an opportunity to correct errors in the closing process (in the absence of significant new information). Thus, the action specified should be the editor's analysis of whether the close of the discussion was reasonable or unreasonable based on the debate and applicable policy and guidelines. Providing evidence such as page views, ghits, ngrams, challenging sourcing and naming conventions, etc. to defend a specific title choice is not within the purview of a Move Review. Evidence should be limited to demonstrating that the RM closer did or did not follow the spirit and intent of WP:RMCI in closing the Requested Move discussion.

Closing reviews[edit]

A nominated page should remain on Move Review for at least seven days. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists to either endorse the close or overturn the close. If that consensus is to Overturn Close, the administrator should take the appropriate actions to revert any title changes resulting from the RM close. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at Wikipedia:Requested moves. If the consensus is to Endorse Close, no further action is required on the article title. If the administrator finds that there is no consensus in the move review, then in most cases this has the same effect as Endorse Close and no action is required on the article title. However, in some cases, it may be more appropriate to treat a finding of "no consensus" as equivalent to a "relist"; administrators may use their discretion to determine which outcome is more appropriate. Move review discussions may also be extended by relisting them to the newest MRV log page, if the closing administrator thinks that a different consensus may yet be achieved by more discussion.

Use {{subst:move review top}} and {{subst:move review bottom}} to close such discussions.

Also add a result to the {{move review talk}} template on the talk page where the original discussion took place, e.g. {{move review talk|date=April 24 2015|result=Closure endorsed}}.

Typical move review decision options[edit]

The following set of options represent the typical results of a Move Review decision, although complex Requested Move discussions involving multiple title changes may require a combination of these options based on the specific details of the RM and MRV discussions.

MRV Decision RM Closers Decision Article Title Action at RM Close (By RM Closer) Article Title Action at MRV Close (by MRV closer) Status of RM at MRV Close
1. Endorse Close Not Moved Not Moved No Action Required Closed
2. Endorse Close Move to new title Moved to New Title No Action Required Closed
3. Overturn Close Not Moved Not Moved Option 1: (If RM consensus is unclear or significantly divided) Reopen and relist RM
Option 2: (If Consensus to move to a new title is clear) Move title to new title and close RM
Open or Closed as necessary
4. Overturn Close Move to new title Moved to New Title Move title back to pre-RM title, reopen and relist RM if appropriate Closed or Open and relisted as appropriate
5. Relist Not Moved Not Moved Reopen and relist RM Open
6. Relist Move to new title Moved to new title Move title to pre-RM title and reopen and relist RM Open
7. Don't Relist Not moved or moved Not Moved or Moved No Action Required Closed

 

Active discussions[edit]

2018 July[edit]

Atmel AVR[edit]

Atmel AVR (talk|edit|history|logs|links|cache|watch) (RM)

I have relisted the RM because I feel that it had insufficient consensus and would better require relisting. But Frayae prematurely closed the discussion anyway. I believe that the closure was incorrect. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 19:40, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

  • Endorse insofar as this could have just been a procedural close. The target is occupied, and the request wasn't formatted as a multimove request, and there was basically no case to answer in terms of moving to simply "AVR" despite the other 17 entries on the disambiguation page. The close correctly picked up on this. The original seven-day period had expired, and there is no requirement that relisted discussions be left open for any particular length of time after relisting. That said, I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be a subsequent, new request to move to a non-AVR title at any time if someone is interested in proposing it. In fact, simply doing that would be easier than going through a long move review here in order to get a relisting. Dekimasuよ! 20:13, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
  • At first glance, this looks like another case in which the closer wasn't contacted until the move review was filed. A clarification of the close stating that a new RM would be welcomed seems like it would be sufficient, and it's possible that could have been solicited through the closer's talk page. Dekimasuよ! 20:15, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I boldly moved the page to AVR microcontrollers, hopefully addressing the concerns from the original malformed proposal. I hope that it saves further procedural brouhaha. If it matters, I endorse the original close, but I hope my move makes the issue now moot. No such user (talk) 09:02, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Gjon Kastrioti[edit]

Gjon Kastrioti (talk|edit|history|logs|links|cache|watch) (RM)

Multiple editors who supported renaming presented numerous valid arguments based on vikipedia policies. I am sorry if I am wrong, but I did not see a single such arguement presented by the oppose party. I tried to discuss this issue (diff) with editor who closed this RM discusssion (BD2412). I asked them what arguments of the oppose party grounded in wikipedia policies they took into consideration before they closed this RM discussion. Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions clearly says that arguments should be evaluated giving due weight to arguments as reflected in applicable policy, guidelines and naming conventions. That is also request of the Wikipedia:Consensus which emphasizes that Responses indicating individual explanations of positions using Wikipedia policies and guidelines are given the highest weight. Here is their reply (diff) which I think do not justify their closure nor it follows above mentioned policies. That is why I propose RM review. Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:58, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Subtropical Storm Alpha (1972)[edit]

Subtropical Storm Alpha (1972) (talk|edit|history|logs|links|cache|watch) (RM)
Subtropical Storm Nicole (2004)
Subtropical Storm Nicole (2004) (talk|edit|history|logs|links|cache|watch) (RM)
Subtropical Storm Andrea (2007)
Subtropical Storm Andrea (2007) (talk|edit|history|logs|links|cache|watch) (RM)

The opposing side doesn't seem familiar with the WPTC naming convention. When there is only one named storm of that intensity, we removed the year as we don't need disambiguation. Also, the suggested title "Subtropical Storm Alpha, 1972" from the opposing side doesn't meet the WPTC naming convention. B dash (talk) 02:54, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

  • Closer comment. I was notified of this MR, but User:B dash made no move to discuss this with me before starting the move review. On my talk page, I had written to another editor, "I dislike preemptive disambiguation, but there was no consensus in favor of removing the years in these move discussions. The title guidance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones is not a naming convention with guideline status, and the editors opposing the move cited recognizability, which is one of the naming criteria in WP:AT policy.☆ Move requests are assumed to attract a general cross-section of the user base, so we should not assume that the move discussions represent a local consensus that is unrepresentative of the community. Rather, WP:C explains WP:LOCALCONSENSUS in terms of WikiProjects attempting to set rules without establishing consensus guidelines. Hopefully the result of the discussion might turn out differently in the future if the WikiProject's advice is elevated to guideline status, but on the basis of the discussions at hand it is not clear that they currently enjoy that support. ☆(Presumably they do not believe the distinction between Subtropical Storm Nicole and Tropical Storm Nicole, etc., is sufficient, which is borne out to some extent by the fact that Tropical Storm Nicole does not redirect to the only article called 'Tropical Storm Nicole'.) Dekimasuよ! 15:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)." That was upon the close about three weeks ago. The related discussions show that editors were aware of the WPTC guidance and had questioned its status before the close of the request. To reiterate, it is not a guideline. Dekimasuよ! 05:41, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Can someone please help the nominator here, B dash, with copy-editing their rationale, for English, and for clarity for the unencultured. WPTC? “doesn’t familiar”? —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:38, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
    • WP:WPTC: Wikipedia project tropical cyclone. --B dash (talk) 12:09, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Endorse. These closes were good calls based upon the arguments of the debates.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  12:39, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment. Call for a procedural speedy close. We have been a bit lax about MRVers not first discussing a closer's rationale before coming here to MRV. The more this breach is allowed, the more it happens, and many of these reviews can be avoided if editors first take their disagreement with the RM outcome to the closer's talk page for an initial discussion. This is not taking a hard line, since the MRV instructions are crystal clear: "Prior to requesting a review, you should attempt to resolve any issues with the closer on their talk page." That is in the lead at WP:MRV in bold and italics. The more editors are allowed to ignore that, the more we will see it being ignored.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  21:46, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
Before requesting a move review: Please attempt to discuss the matter with the discussion closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision. If things don't work out, and you decide to request a review of the closure, please note in the review that you did first try discussing the matter with the closer.
This is not just etiquette or good manners, this is a MRV required step.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  09:37, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
You’re right, of course, but I’m looking at it as being in the MRV nominator’s interest to clarify the point(s) of disagreement. It helps to build a persuasive rationale. I oppose Speedy close per WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY, and prefer to see it closed decisively. Once closed, it is too late for the nominator tonhave that conversation and then come back here and start again. Here, the nominator has completely failed to make a case, but MRV should not have barriers to nominator’s bringing issues, occasionally, this might be important. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:10, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
It's true that such barriers should not exist; however, in my estimation such barriers are minimal, and to have editors discuss RM outcomes informally can be so much better for all involved than to open a formal move review. Moreover, if this were to be closed "procedurally" and the nom speedily sent to the closer's talk page, there would be nothing to stop the nom from resubmitting here if the nom and the closer cannot work things out.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  11:30, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
That’s true. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:55, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Endorse. The standing of WP:WPTC was explicitly challenged in the discussion. There is no evidence of one side not understanding, just a difference of opinion. Disclosing that I was a major participant opposing in the poorly participated discussion, still, I think the nominator of the RMs failed to make the case. User:JHunterJ May like to make a fresh proposal soon, but a moratorium should apply to User:B_dash renominating. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:17, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Archive[edit]

2018
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May June July August
September October November December
2017
January February March April
May June July August
September October November December
2016
January February March April
May June July August
September October November December
2015
January February March April
May June July August
September October November December
2014
January February March April
May June July August
September October November December
2013
January February March April
May June July August
September October November December
2012
January February March April
May June July August
September October November December


See also[edit]

Subpages