Wikipedia:Non-free content review/Archive 21

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File:Akali dal logo.png

File:Windows 8 Start Screen.png

Original issue resolved, if other issues persist feel free to open a new request Werieth (talk) 13:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It's used in five articles, but only has a non-free use rationale for one of them. It seems to violate NFCC 10c. David1217 What I've done 20:33, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

  • Interestingly, the image appears to violate Microsoft's permission. See {{Non-free Microsoft screenshot}}, in particular #5 where it says "Do not use screen shots that contain an image of an identifiable individual." This image contains 9 identifiable individuals. I'm not saying we can't use the image because of that; rather, that using {{Non-free Microsoft screenshot}} as the license is most likely inappropriate, and {{Non-free software screenshot}} would be a preferable license. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
    • I wonder if MS is trying to cover the issue of personality rights with that requirement. That said, are any of the people in that shot "recognizable"? I mean, I'm sure we spend enough time, someone can name who they are, but we're not talking about an easily-identified person like a celeb or politician. (Also, I wonder how other sites get around that then since I've seen that Metro-style used all over the 'net for Xbox and Windows Phone reviews). As to the uses, I think that if rationales were added they could be justified (given the dramatic shift the interface has over past iterations, its use in History of Microsoft Windows and Start Menu would make sense, in addition to of course the basic allowance at Windows 8. I'd be iffy for the Metro article since there's already one of the phone with the similar interface. --MASEM (t) 21:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
      • I have a different read on it; that identifiable means if a person's features are clear enough to be recognizable, not whether they are a celebrity or not. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
        • Yea, I don't know for sure, but I would definitely play it safe to find an screenshot without the face images (if one can be had...) --MASEM (t) 22:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
          • On Commons, people generally seem to slap Commons:Template:Personality rights on photos if you see the face of a person, although I suppose you could sometimes tell who the person is even without seeing the face. I'd say that these people are identifiable: if you know the people on the photos, you'll be able to see that they are the ones on the photos. In some cases, e.g. File:11-05-19-landtag-thueringen-making-of-01.jpg, you have to zoom in quite a lot in order to tell that the people are identifiable. Another thing: "Do not use screen shots that contain third-party content." Were all photos taken by Microsoft? --Stefan2 (talk) 23:51, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
  • (Unindent) I have uploaded a new version of the image without the profile image of an individual. (I would think the person in the News tile cannot be identified due to his face cover). This is the default Start menu experience on a PC running Windows 8. This means that it is also different from the three-tile width layout seen on a tablet running Windows 8. I also feel that this is more encyclopedic, as it represents better a Desktop system experience, being more of a reference system of Windows 8. Please advise on whether the non-free media data has to be updated as well. Optakeover(Talk) 05:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
    • I have uploaded my third version with definitely no identifiable faces. Sorry for the repeated uploads, I am just trying to make sure there are no loopholes. Optakeover(Talk) 05:28, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
      • I have just uploaded a fourth version with no third-party material. I'm not sure how far we can push the interpretation of the clauses in the Microsoft's conditions, so please advise. Optakeover(Talk) 05:38, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
        • Well, the main issue is not what the image contains, but how it is used. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:26, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
          • That's correct. But fair-use rationales are easy to write. The guidelines on the use of non-free images doesn't say the limit of the number of articles the image is used on, though I assume that it should preferably be a small number of articles only. But if there are missing fair-use rationales for the respective articles, I don't think that it is a major problem requiring that the image be removed, for example. But since personality rights were brought up, I think it made sense to mention about it. I suggest that the revision of the image at [1] should be used, since you don't seem to have any worries about third-party material used on the image (my concern is the info on the Market tile, which is pulled from syndicated news sources, and the travel tile). If you think it is okay, I will upload a completely new image this revision, with an even smaller res (now 800*450, going for 600*?), and I'll write the fair-use rationales for all five articles. Optakeover(Talk) 14:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
            • Uploading a width 600px version. I think it's small enough, it's the threshold of readability of the small text. Optakeover(Talk) 15:04, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
              • That's still probably too large (you can always call out what the text is on the image description page). A 1/4-size (1/2 in each direction) would do the same job.
              • The issue that started this was the 5 uses, which are, History of Microsoft Windows, Metro (design language), Microsoft Windows, Start menu, and Windows 8. That seems too many for a screenshot of an OS. It is reasonable in Windows 8 (btw, should that not be "Microsoft Windows 8" per the same language that the Microsoft license requires for images?) as a screenshot of the OS. It is reasonable in either History of Microsoft Windows or Microsoft Windows but not both. There are other ways to display the Metro style, and similarly, I'm not seeing a need on Start Menu (particularly when there is the History article, where I think the image is second-best suited on). --MASEM (t) 15:11, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
                • About image size, see Category:Rescaled fairuse files more than 7 days old:
                  • "The largest dimension should be at most around 300–400px." The largest dimension is currently 600 pixels, which is much more than "300–400px".
                  • "The resolution should approximately fit the intended use in the article." The purpose is to show small images in articles, the largest of them being 300 x 169 pixels. --Stefan2 (talk) 15:16, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
  • (Unindent) Well, my opinion is that the text of the tiles should be at least barely visible as it provides some context on the kind of features available on Windows 8's Modern interface. Understood on image size. I will resize it as accordingly. As for the number of pages it is used on, I am of the opinion that the image could probably be removed from History of Microsoft Windows, but I think the rest should stay, especially on Microsoft Windows. I feel it is important in Start Menu as it will illustrate how it is different in this version as compared to the traditional Start Button and Menu, and in Microsoft Windows for the same reason, as the article is about Windows, and the image is about a major revision to Windows.
As for question about the article name being "Microsoft Windows 8" instead of "Windows 8", because it's a fair use rationale for a specific article and that specific article's name is Windows 8, it passes Wikipedia's FUR. The only concern is with the article's name itself, as according to the license conditions, the use of Microsoft's trademarks must conform to their guidelines of their use. However, according to [2], all is good. In the page,
  1. Properly Identify Windows Products and the list of Microsoft products in the list doesn't mean that all names used in Wikipedia must be used similar to the names as written in the list (e.g. Windows XP operating system, as opposed to just Windows XP), as the list is just meant to give an example of the products covered by the guidelines of the page. But,
  2. Do Not Shorten, Abbreviate, or Create Acronyms for the Windows Trademark states that names shouldn't be shortened, like Windows8, Win8 or W8. Since Windows 8 is the name of the article, I think that it passes. Optakeover(Talk) 15:31, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I have uploaded a completely new image, to further comply with Microsoft's use of trademarks, as the previous file name didn't have capitalized letters for Start Screen. Resolution now conforms to rule of thumb, but use on articles have not been ironed out yet. Image descriptions, NFURs and related templates has been copied over to the new image. Optakeover(Talk) 15:48, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
    • First as a piece of advice, you can always upload a new image that is designed to replace an old image over the over image. (If you go near the bottom of the file page, there's a "Upload a new version of this file"; it will not overright the licensing/rationale, and simply replace the existing uses.
    • Copying over rationales like you did to satisify NFCC#10c is reasonable to start, but per NFCC#8, it is very difficult to accept that the image is being used for the same purpose on all 5 pages, and we would reasonably expect a more detailed rationale for each. For example, its use at Windows 8 is basically to demonstrate the appearance of the software, presumably as a lead/infobox image, which is generally accepted for an article on software. But its use at something like the Metro design is different - it's not to show W8, but to show how the Metro design is structured, with boxes and readable text. This is where the question of "do we really need this image 5 times" is being asked. Remember that we're seeking minimal use (via NFCC#3a) so we want to be sure its being used where it is absolutely necessary, and only on those pages. --MASEM (t) 16:09, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
      • Okay. In that case, I'd like to ask for consensus regarding which specific articles the image should only be used on. I'm tired now and I'm nursing a headache, so I'm done for the night. I'm still okay having it on four pages: Windows 8, Microsoft Windows 8, Metro (design language) and Start Menu but if anyone objects, I won't fight it, because I think I'm not too picky on the article selection already. But once we do reach a consensus, I would appreciate if someone would edit the fair-use rationales, do the removal of the images on the articles to be excluded, and to delete the deprecated image. Oh, and I uploaded a completely new image because I realize I couldn't change the file name. I'm not sure if I made a mistake on that, but that's what I gathered when I tried to do so. I uploaded a new image to coincide with Microsoft's guidelines for trademarks, as I felt a properly capitalized Start Screen is compliant. Optakeover(Talk) 16:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
        • An administrator or file-mover could have moved the file to the new name. Please see WP:MOF for instructions on how to request a file be moved. I have nominated the lower-case version File:Windows 8 start screen.png for deletion {{db-f5}}. -- Dianna (talk) 23:32, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

File:The Open Championship.svg

resolved Werieth (talk) 14:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tagged as non-free and violating WP:NFCC#10c in 2011 Open Championship, 2012 Open Championship and 2013 Open Championship. Appears to be a textlogo with a relatively simple shape and is thus possibly below WP:TOO. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 16:02, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I think it's not free but with a proper rationale could be justified. There's a single Open Championship each year and the use of the logo helps establish the context for the article in each case. (Too busy at the moment myself.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 17:07, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Removed from all but main article per WP:NFC#UUI #14. Werieth (talk) 14:37, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

White Castle (restaurant)

Removed per WP:NFG Werieth (talk) 13:56, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This concerns the nonfree logos

Their current usage appears to violate WP:NFCC #3 and #8 and WP:NFG. RJaguar3 | u | t 14:38, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

The current logo is always acceptable (though the gallery use is not needed). There's a current discussion about historical logos at WP:VPP that would relate to the second logo. But yea, there's no gallery need here. --MASEM (t) 14:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The logo depicted in File:Whitecastle.png might be in the public domain depending on whether the copyright expired before the enaction of the Copyright Act of 1976 or not and whether the intial copyright had been renewed or not. -- Toshio Yamaguchi 15:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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