Wikipedia:Peer review/Dennis Johnson/archive1

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Dennis Johnson[edit]

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I want to improve this to FA status. Thanks, —Chris!c/t 19:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. I will take a look later today. Speech is a bit flowery at firsy glance but I actually think it works rather well...more later and I will explain what I mean then. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot.—Chris!c/t 20:27, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Giants2008 comments – The first thing I am going to focus on is the sourcing, because this is so important for any article that is being prepared for FAC. If the references aren't high-quality, an article isn't going to pass. I found a couple of concerns there that should be addressed as soon as possible. I'll also do a quick scan for prose issues.

  • What makes http://www.celtic-nation.com/interviews/dennis_johnson/dennis_johnson_page1.htm a reliable source? The title makes it sound like a fan site, which will quickly be detected and questioned at FAC. I recommend finding replacements for this site, especially considering some of the things it's sourcing, such as his "choking" (the worst thing that can be said about an athlete's performance).
  • I believe this qualifies as RS because it records an interview with Dennis Johnson himself. I will try to replace some but it will be difficult.—Chris!c/t 18:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Be very careful with the Dennis Johnson bio on NBA.com. That would be considered a primary source and should be used carefully, and not for interpretations. The NBA is naturally going to present their players in the best possible light. This is one problematic example: "and was finally named NBA Finals MVP." The "finally" comes off as POV, which could be unintentionally reflected from the source.
  • "finally" is gone now. I will double check to make sure it is pov free.—Chris!c/t 18:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Not sure the bit about his NBDL coaching needs to be in the first sentence. It's not nearly as important for him as his playing career, and the mentioned job wasn't his only NBDL job. In fact, it's curious that this is in the lead and his stint as an interim NBA coach isn't.
  • "A prototypical late bloomer, the 6'4 Johnson overcame early struggles and had a successful NBA player career." I can guarantee that "late bloomer" will be seen as jargon at FAC, and I'm not even good at spotting it. Also change "player" to "playing".
  • "He eventually led the Sonics to their only NBA championships in 1979". "championships" is incorrect and should be singular.
  • Consider linking some things like All-Star and All-NBA Team in the lead.
  • "Johnson was known as a clutch player who made several decisive plays in NBA Finals history." I'd consider making a change to better match the source, which seems to be referring to the playoffs in general, not just the finals. Makes sense, since that includes the 1987 Detroit game.

The sourcing issues will require some thought, so I'll stop after reading the lead. Let me know when this has been looked at and I'll leave more thoughts on the writing. Giants2008 (17–14) 21:58, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

  • Fixed most issue. I don't really think "late bloomer" is a jargon because it is often use. I can't think of another way to say this.—Chris!c/t 20:12, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Came back to read beyond the lead, aiming to find prose issues.
  • Link Little Leaguer since that may not be clear to non-sports fans.
  • "This is a trait which would follow him through the next years of his career." How many years? This comes off as quite vague, and should be expanded upon if the source allows.
  • "However, the Sonics finished with a mediocre 40–42 record". "Mediocre" might be seen as POV by some FAC reviewers, even if it's largely true. Eliminating this word won't change the meaning in any way, so I suggest doing that.
  • Remove hyphens in "Hall-of-Fame".
  • "Remarkable about this period was the fact that Johnson played shooting guard and was then known for his aggresive slam dunking, in contrast to the more cerebral roles he played later in his career." "Remarkable" may be overstating things slightly. Go a bit easier on the hyperbole.
  • Any suggestion?—Chris!c/t 23:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Replace the beginning with a simpler "During this period" and possibly drop "then"? Giants2008 (17–14) 02:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
  • "in which the sophomore guard missed all of his 14 field goal attempts." Should "sophomore" be changed since he wasn't in college anymore?
  • Several POV concerns in the 1979 section: "strong 52–30 record", "powered their way", and "inspired Johnson" (like he wasn't inspired to perform well in 1978?). Sports articles often have language like this that needs to be altered. The best approach is to simply describe what happened.
  • "smothering defense" may be lost on non-NBA fans. If it seems like I'm emphasizing possible jargon, it's because I am. Avoiding confusing language is vital for professional prose, and sports articles often have problems with this.
  • Little tip: Having a link to shooting guard isn't necessary when there's an identical link in the previous section.
  • "before disappointingly bowing out in the first round in Johnson's last year." Another POV word in this context: "disappointingly".
  • "Like in Seattle, he often clashed with coach John MacLeod". This could be misinterpreted to mean that he clashed with MacLeod in Seattle. Try tweaking the wording to eliminate this vagueness.
  • Any suggestion?—Chris!c/t 23:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Perhaps something like this: "Like in Seattle, he often clashed with his coach, John MacLeod." Still not ideal in my mind, but an improvement nonetheless. Giants2008 (17–14) 02:05, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Choose between All-Defensive First Team and All-Defense First Team. I see both at various times.
  • Looking ahead a bit: "the Celtics succumbed to the Los Angeles Lakers 2–4 (flip?) because Lakers playmaker and Finals MVP Magic Johnson was unstoppable." I'm sure he wasn't literally unstoppable. Needs rephrasing.
Hopefully these will show what FAC reviewers are looking for on the prose side. The best thing you can do before FAC is to secure the services of a good copy-editor, who can help smooth out the writing where necessary. Good luck. Giants2008 (17–14) 00:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Boston Celtics: Inconsistent usage of "Hall of Fame" and "Hall-of-Fame" is present. I believe the former is correct.
  • "Johnson described this loss as one of the toughest". Of his career? That's not clear as the sentence stands now.
  • Have you thought of using a quote box for the Johnny Most game call? I've seen centered boxes with quotes in other articles, which would be a perfect way to present this quote.
  • Comma after "In the 1987 NBA Finals".
  • Magic Johnson doesn't need to be linked twice in this section. It would be a good idea to check for similar overlinking throughout the article, as that is commonly checked for at FAC.
  • "and his team made the 1989 NBA Playoffs on a meager 42-40 record, but were immediately eliminated in the first round." En dash needed for won–loss record, and "were" should be "was" since "team" is acting as a singular word.
  • Hyphens needed in "35 year old".
  • What does this mean: "Johnson played 'rejuvenated'"?
  • The image of the green number 3 is cutting into the Legacy section header. Try moving it so that it appears alongside the first paragraph.
  • "Hall of Famer known for strong defense rather than spectacular scoring, like Johnson". An "a" should be placed at the beginning of this, inside the dash.
  • Capitalize "colleague" in the next sentence. Giants2008 (17–14) 01:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Done all—Chris!c/t 02:48, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Casliber's comments - prose is not looking too bad. I have made some alternatives as I read through- revert any tweaks you feel worsen instead of improving the prose.

In Phoenix, Johnson further established himself as a quality player. - is a bit 'fluffy'
What do you suggest?
the Celtics had repeatedly lost in the previous NBA Playoffs campaigns to the Philadelphia 76ers - what, lost to the same team to bow out of the playoffs...how many times?
Did I make it flow better?—Chris!c/t 00:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I am still left feeling a little curious/unsatisfied for more information on why Johnson hasn't been inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame too. Is there any more on this?
Let me see if there is more to add here.—Chris!c/t 00:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)