Wikipedia:Peer review/Lee Choon Seng/archive1

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Lee Choon Seng[edit]

(more info)

This peer review discussion has been closed.
Fellow Wikipedians, I humbly present for peer review, this article about Lee Choon Seng (1888-1965), a philanthropist, Chinese community leader and Buddhist pioneer in pre-independence Singapore! In 2007, Aldwinteo wrote many short, but interesting, articles about the history of Singapore, and since he stopped contributing, I have been trying to help his articles attain GA status. Please support the quest to counter systemic bias on Wikipedia by reviewing this short, but interesting, article, which I hope you will enjoy reading! Thanks, J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 11:07, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I've made some minor copy edits to the article myself. A few points that need to be followed up on:

  • "He continued to serve the Chamber of Commerce in various capacities until 1967 owing to poor health as one of their Honorary Presidents." - reword. this is awkward and doesn't make it clear how long he was honorary president, or how long he suffered from ill health.
  • Paragraph on Overseas Chinese Association - seems a bit off topic. Could be reworded to focus more on his involvement. At the moment it seems he was simply a member.
  • During an OCA assignment - paragraph needs rewording. First sentence has no subject.
  • Go through the automated checker in the toolbox. There's a few minor problems listed there.

In general I think the article comes of a little bit too complimentary. It is not exactly POV, but it certainly seems to focus on all the good stuff he did. Is there any more possible information from sources maybe less friendly to him? Any criticisms to be found? Are there any Chinese language sources available? MOre sources in general would be good, though I recognise there might not be that many. Also, a little bit of background context regarding the state of Buddhism in Singapore during his lifetime could be useful. Is there any information about why he converted and exactly when? Any information about his philosophy, both religious and political? It is mentioned that he supported the Kuomintang, but perhaps info could be expanded on this aspect in his personal info section. His relationship with the Japanese authorities could be made more explicit. Why is the OCA listed under the SCCC section? In general I feel that the flow of the article could be improved, to make it seem less like disconnected sections each on a different achievement. Overall it was fairly well written and seems to outline his life reasonably well, but more could certainly be added if the sources exist. Peregrine981 (talk) 20:37, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I have copyedited the section about the SCCCI. Could you have another look at the article? Unfortunately, I do not have access to the sources Aldwinteo used and I doubt more exist. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 17:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments: per talk-page request, I'm throwing out some comments. Overall, this was a great effort and naturally written.

  • Redundancy: avoid additive term like "in addition" and "also" as they are just fluff.
  • Clarification requested I believe their removal would affect the flow of the prose. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
    • Considering the E.S.L. readers, I'm fine with not removing them. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 20:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Clarification: What is meant by a "permanent" memorial hall?
    Done Not sure what Aldwinteo meant, but I doubt there are temporary memorial halls, so I removed the word. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 15:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Redundancy: "Not much else is known about his personal life, except that he had two wives and at least fifteen children, lived at Pasir Panjang Road and died on 5 June 1966" – the "not much is known" part is not necessary—just state the facts. The length of the section will convey the amount of information known about him.
    Done Removed the "not much is known" clause. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Section heading: "Business activities" can be condensed to "Business".
    Done For more efficient business! --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 15:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Grammar: "From 1927, Lee was actively involved with their SCCCI, initially as General-Secretary, then as their President." – perhaps you meant "the SCCCI"?
    Done Thanks for spotting the typo!
  • Redundancy: No need for "officially" here – "In 1943, the Singapore Buddhist Lodge (新加坡佛教居士林) was officially set up with about 100 members, mostly from the Chinese social elite."
    Done Redundancy eliminated. Thanks! --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 15:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Redundancy: or here – "Lee invited representatives from all Chinese temples to the Singapore Buddhist Lodge to discuss the formation of an umbrella organisation, and on 30 October 1949, the Singapore Buddhist Federation was officially registered, with Lee elected as its chairman and Venerable Hong Choon as its vice-chairman."
    Done per above. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 15:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Redundancy: "This temple still stands today in Sarnath and it is called simply The Chinese Temple in Sarnath." – cut "it".
    Done It has been cut. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 15:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Chronology: I'm wondering if the "died on 5 June 1966" can be moved to the Commemoration section and if the section could possibly be renamed "Death and commemoration", as that would improve the chronological flow of the article.
    Done Excellent suggestion! --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • General question: I agree that the article may focus a bit too much on the positive, as it seems that he had success after success. Were there possibly any controversies, failures or criticisms to discuss?
    Not done The article was written by Aldwinteo, not me, and I do not have access to the sources he used. Chinese culture does not encourage the publication of criticism of people like Lee and since he lived in pre-independence Singapore, I doubt sources for failures or controversies would exist. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Citation formatting: Preferably "The Strait Times" should be italicized.
    Done Italicised. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

This article was a nice read, and with the suggestions above in mind, it can be a great candidate for GA. As always, let me know if you have questions. Cheers. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ] 22:08, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Second Review: On my second review a couple of new points I would make:
  • What is Wan Qing Yuan? It isn't really explained? Why is it relevant that the secret meetings took place there?
    Done, please check Is "a two-storey villa" sufficient explanation?
Yes, fine.Peregrine981 (talk) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • It says that he was "involved" in "secret meetings" with Sun Yat Sen. Do we know more than that? What was the nature of his involvement? When did these meetings take place? What is the relevance of the meetings? Did his involvement go beyond these meetings?
  • In the section on the OCA assignment to Endau Settlement it says that the convoy was "shot". But this is not very clear. You cannot really "shoot" a convoy. You can shoot the members, or shoot all of the members, or execute the members, or attack the convoy, but it is not clear exactly what happened here.
    Done, please check Everyone in the convoy was shot. Only Lee survived. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, fine.Peregrine981 (talk) 09:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
  • In the Chinese Temple at Sarnath section, the timeline could be clarified. When did Venerable Tao Chiai die? When was the pilgrimage? How long did the restoration take?
  • I still think that more context could be provided about buddhism in Singapore. What was its status in pre-independence Singapore? Why was Lee Choon Seng's contribution important?
  • I would ideally like to see more information about why he converted and when.
  • The overall timeline should be made more explicit.
  • Overall, reads fairly well and good improvements made. I recognise that some of my points may be difficult to find information on, and/or require original research, so they may not be achievable. But if the information does exist it should be included. Peregrine981 (talk) 10:28, 3 December 2012 (UTC)