Wikipedia:Peer review/Luc Bourdon/archive1

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Luc Bourdon[edit]

This peer review discussion has been closed.
Article about former NHL player Luc Bourdon, who died in a motorcycle accident back in May. The article passed the GA process back in July, and I've recently expanded the article in hopes of an FA nomination soon. Particular attention to the prose, one of my weaker aspects, would be most appreciated.

Thanks, Kaiser matias (talk) 01:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

  • Good job with the article, took a quick look but will look closer into it soon. Only suggestion I have right now is that you write a playing style section, it could considerably increase your chances at an FAC. —Krm500 (Communicate!) 02:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a brief mention of what type of defenceman he was near the start of the playing career section, and that is about all there is written about him. There wasn't that much written about his playing style, and his career was a little short to provide some major depth in describing it. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Brianboulton writes: I will do a full-length review as soon as possible, hopefully within next 24 hours. Brianboulton (talk) 00:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've done my best to read through and to understand what I was reading. A problem with most sports-related articles is the need to use terms unfamiliar to those who are not acquainted with the sport or its organisation and structure. Though many of these terms are unavoidable, the article needs to be written with an awareness that it is for a general encyclopedia readership rather than for a knowledgeable sports readership. This is particularly so early in the article, or the reader will be put off. I had difficulty, in the lead, in understanding what "third overall in the 2003 (QMJHL) draft" meant, and the following sentence: "The Canucks drafted Bourdon with their first pick, tenth overall in the 2005 NHL Entry draft" - I found incomprehensible. Words like "pick" and "draft" obviously have specific meanings in ice hockey circles, but as these were unexplained, I began the main article in a sense of confusion.

Some specific points:-

  • Lead: I believe this needs to be expanded, partly by clarifying of some of the jargon. More dates are needed, to establish a clearer chronology.
  • Early life
    • "francophone" should be linked (I've done this)
    • "bantam" and "midget" presumably relate to hockey played at early ages. Could we know what sort of ages we are talking about?
    • Give date, or at least year, that Bourdon turned professional
    • Some explanation is required as to how an 18-year-old had $10,000 that he could anonymously donate to the local hockey association. Was it his money?
    • Clarify that this is Canadian dollars.

Need to take a short break here. Will return in a while.Brianboulton (talk) 22:42, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

  • (Note: I'm happy to continue the review, but would like first to see some response to my initial points.) Brianboulton (talk) 11:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

:Sorry for not responding, I've been out of the country for the last week and have had limited internet access. I will return home on the 8th, and will go over everything then. I greatly appreciate that you've taken the time to go over the article, an don't want to leave the impression that I'm totally ignoring this review. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:54, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

And everything should be taken care of. Kaiser matias (talk) 03:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

More review comments

  • Still no date for his turning professional, nor information as to how a teenager had C£10,000 to give away - surely unusual, and worth explaining?
  • The article still feels as though written by a hockey enthusiast for other hockey enthusiasts, to the exclusion of the general reader. There are (see below) jargon-laden sentences that need to be rewritten in more accessible prose. At the very least, much more use should be made of linking at first mention, to provide some explanation of terms used. Examples:-
    • draft - link to Draft (sports)
    • points - link to Point (ice hockey)
    • playoff
    • assists - link to Assist (ice hockey)
    • defencemen - link to Defenceman (ice hockey)
    • traded - link to Trade (sports)
    • shootout - link to Shootout (sports)
  • The following are examples of incomprehensible (to non-hockey fans) sentences or phrases that need to be rewritten to extend the appeal of the article:-
    • "...a fourth round pick QMJHL draft and a first round selection in 2008..."
  • "Bourdon was regularly mentioned in rumours of trades for more offense at the forward positions". These are examples - there are other instances. The habit of writing in exclusive sports shorthand should be avoided.
  • Other points:
    • North American skaters - presumably Skaters
    • Numbers below 10 should be written, e.g. eight, seven in first sentence of Playing career. Other instances further on - obviously, this does not apply to scores.
    • As mentioned before, the lead needs extending to comply with WP:LEAD

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I felt somewhat out of my depth with this article, due to a lack of specialised knowledge. Good luck with it, anyhow. Brianboulton (talk) 11:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Bamsefar75 writes: Just made a quick read of the article. Mainly I noted that...

  • The sentence The Canucks drafted Bourdon with their first draft selection in the 2005 NHL Entry Draft, the tenth player selected in the draft. contains not less than four (4) occurences of the word draft/drafted.
  • The phrase the rookie-maximum might need to be clarified (I'm not very familiar with the general contract business terms of the NHL). Is this significant or unusual for a player, and is it the NHLPA that sets a limit, and maybe the term rookie needs to be linked...

--Bamsefar75 (talk) 01:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Should all be good. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Comments
  • I see the age groups for bantam and midget hockey have been added per request above. As a thought, might it not be simpler to state that "Bourdon played his minor hockey with the Peninsule Acadien Lynx from age 13–14 and the Miramichi Rivermen from 15–17." As noted above, the usage of bantam and midget would be confusing for people without a good understanding of the minor hockey system in Canada.
  • You got some endash poisoning.  ;o) "14-year-old" should use hyphens, not endashes.
  • Link C$ to Canadian Dollar. Trust me, someone will nitpick that at FAC.
  • "In exchange for Bourdon, the Wildcats, who were hosting the 2006 Memorial Cup, sent Ian Mathieu-Girard, Jean-Sébastien Adam, a fourth round pick QMJHL draft and a first round selection in 2008 to Val-d'Or." The statement on the Wildcats hosting the Memorial cup seems disjointed in the middle of that sentence.
  • There was some variation between the usage of Canadian English and American (i.e.: usage of both "defence" and "defense"). I've changed spellings to consistently use EN-CA where I've found them, but you may want to give it a quick look in case I missed any.
  • It is stated that the Canucks are considering producing the guitar pins they wore during the Draft. Given that passage has been in this article for some time, is there any update on this possibility? Resolute 18:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Otherwise, looks very good. Resolute 18:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Everything should be good now. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

  • More comments
  • The prose was overall pretty good, compelling, I'd say. In one spot it was really really choppy (typos/bad grammar), but I've given the article a thorough copyedit.
  • I delinked common terms.
  • I deleted (a bit boldly, a bit out process, but I firmly believe if I send it to IfD it would be deleted) Image:Bourdon2005draft.jpg as it failed WP:NFCC#1, as a free image can possibly be found, WP:NFCC#2, as the source is Reuters; [WP:NFCC#8]], as its omission will not heavily decrease the understanding of the subject.
  • I transferred Image:LucBourdon2007a.JPG to Commons.
  • I fixed two deadlinks.

--Maxim(talk) 15:48, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I had a feeling that the image wouldn't survive. BUt I felt that it was worth a shot to try and get it in. Thanks for going over the article. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)