Wikipedia:Peer review/Shackleton–Rowett Expedition/archive1

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Shackleton–Rowett Expedition[edit]

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This rather sad little expedition is frequently overlooked in Antarctic histories, coming as it did rather late in the day, when the main work of the "Heroic Age" was over. It was intended to be Ernest Shackleton's last hurrah, but he died in South Georgia before it was properly under way. The expedition carried on without him, but achieved little and soon returned home. A general review requested, please: prose, images, sources etc. I'll be grateful for all comments and sugestions. Brianboulton (talk) 16:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as the expedition's one real achievement was definitively disproving the existence of New South Greenland it really should get a mention (ludicrous as its existence may have been thought even then). Even the SPRI site mentions it [1]. It is a pity not to have some of the original photographs, but it's going to be difficult to get hold of them and check their status. I always wonder why the trans-Antarctic idea fell out of favour after Endurance (until the 1950s at least) but maybe this belongs in the ITAE article rather than here. Apart from that, I think it is now a cracking article. Yomanganitalk 17:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
While looking for info on the photos I've just found this which states that the ITAE disproved the existence of New South Greenland. Ho hum. Yomanganitalk 18:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, well...I'm pretty sure that the SPRI meant to say that Quest proved the non-existence of Ross's "appearance of land", which is fully covered in this article. Maybe someone should tell them. Brianboulton (talk) 22:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This photo is "Kerr (Chief Engineer) Examining the Lucas Deep-sea Sounding Machine" from facing page 13 of Wild's book. Presumably Bee-Mason was the photographer and he didn't die until 1957, so I assume it isn't PD, but it might be worth further investigation. Yomanganitalk 18:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Have you gone and bought Wild's book? Zzzzzzzzz..... I'm not sure I like the pic enough to go through a lot of hassle, I've got two FU rationales in the article already. Might mention in the prose that they had a Lucas Deep-sea Sounding machine, though. Brianboulton (talk) 22:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the pic was rather nice as a Heroic Age meets Mechanical Age illustration (though it would be better if Kerr was bearded and dirty), but FU doesn't cover it. I'll do some more digging. Yomanganitalk 11:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Both the British and US versions of Wild's book were published in May 1923, so miss being PD by 5 months. The photos are mostly by Wilkins and Macklin who died in 1958 and 1967 respectively so they won't be PD either. The book does have some better photos of Rowett and Quest though (as you already have these under FU rationales). A better online copy of the book is here (actually there are s lot of nice pics in there that can grace the article in 30 years or so). What do you think about having a map of the Antarctic voyage? Yomanganitalk 12:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If I am still editing on Wikipedia in 30 years I will bear those photos in mind. As to the map, can you do them? I seem to remember hijacking one of your sketches for the James Caird voyage article - you were AWOL at the time so I couldn't ask. It would be great if you could do it - it's beyond me, however. Brianboulton (talk) 23:43, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see if there is enough detail in the Wild book to knock one up on Monday. Yomanganitalk 16:12, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Not the most exciting map in the world, but the land is too far away to feature without making the course tiny. Yomanganitalk 12:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much for the map, but there is a problem with the longitudes. The voyage started from South Georgia, Long. 36°W, and proceeded east and south to Long. 17°E. That's approx 53 degrees of longitude eastward. Elephant Island, at the end of the westward return journey, is in Long. 55°, so the westward journey covered 72° of longitude. The total distance covered on the round trip, ignoring detours, was about 6,000 miles. I'm not sure what point the westerly end of your red line represents, but if it is Elephant Island, you have it too far south - its latitude is 61°. When the longitude problem is sorted out, it should be possible to indicate parts of the coastline they sailed near, when returning from their farthest south, and also key points such as South Georgia, Elephant Island etc. Since the journey started and finished at South Georgia, the journey line should return there, with directional arrows. I do appreciate the time and effort put into this, and I'm sure that once the longitude problem is sorted out the map will look fine. I thought I had better delete it, temporarily, in case it confuses someone. Sorry! Brianboulton (talk) 17:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It only shows the attempts to break through to Enderby Land (from 3rd to 25th Feb), so there isn't a problem with the long or lat, just the labelling of the image. I'm trying to hunt down more detailed info on the rest of the trip, so it doesn't end up being highly detailed for that section and a couple of lines for the rest. Yomanganitalk 18:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I misunderstood, didn't notice the dates. I've restored the map, with what I think is an appropriate caption. Would it be possible to have a brief message at the 3 February end "from S. Georgia", and an arrow at the other end with "to Elephant Island"? The map will do fine then. The alternative, a map on a much smaller scale for the whole voyage, would probably be less useful. Brianboulton (talk) 20:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done (just about visible to the keen-sighted). Yomanganitalk 13:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I've forced the size, which I think you are allowed to do. It looks great!. I will cite the caption to Wild's book. Brianboulton (talk) 13:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've uploaded Image:Rowett.png which you may like to use instead of the existing head-down, hat-on, no-photos picture of Rowett. Let me know if not and I'll have it deleted as it's in with an FU rationale. Yomanganitalk 13:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yours is the better image, so let's use that one. Mine, the hatted one, is also with FU rationale, and that can be deleted. Brianboulton (talk) 17:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I gave this a copyedit; it's looking good (and I am happy to see that you haven't run out of expeditions yet, as I had thought!). I also went looking for images, as I am wont to do. I didn't find anything for this one, but I did find some beautiful RGS maps:

You surely know more than I do about the copyright status of RGS works, but I hope you can use them—they are just gorgeous. Maralia (talk) 17:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Maralia, for the copyedits and the pictures. I'm not out of expeditions just yet, although the main Antarctic ones are all done, now. There's still the Australian one - some exciting things happened there - but at the moment I'm likely next to turn North, as I am researching Nansen's drift. The maps would look great in their appropriate articles; whether they can be used is something I will investigate. RGS guards its UK copyrights, but sometimes their images are free under US copyright laws. A couple of months ago I would simply have asked Elcobbola, and he would have given the answer. As it is I will have to dig around. Brianboulton (talk) 19:24, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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