Wikipedia:Peer review/Sodium/archive1

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(more info)

This peer review discussion has been closed.
Finally, another peer review for a chemical element after some months. Sodium is the next target of ELEMENTS after a short discussion on its talk page. Getting this article to GA status will put the nomination of the entire set of articles about alkali metals one step closer - a GAN for alkali metal itself is underway here.

FREYWA 07:16, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Comments by RJH[edit]

  • The citations need work. For example:
    • "De Leon, N.." -- double period
      •  Done FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Newton, David E.. Chemical Elements. ISBN 0-7876-2847-6. -- year? page range?
      •  Done although the page range can't be found. FREYWA 07:45, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Lide, D. R., ed (2005). CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (86th ed.). Boca Raton (FL): CRC Press. -- page range?
    • Eggeman, Tim. Sodium and Sodium Alloys. Kirk-Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology. John Wiley & Sons, Inc. Published online 2007. -- page range?
      • Seems like the text is restricted access. A note has been left near the Eggeman source. FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • "Merck Index, 9th ed., monograph 8325" -- from what I can tell, this is from 1975. Don't they have a more up to date reference? Could you expand the citation a little?
      •  Done No references to the commercial production of sodium from its azide, so removed. FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • "van Rossen, G.L.C.M." -- needs spaces between initials.
      •  Done FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • "Geleijnse, JM; Kok, FJ; Grobbee, DE" -- initials need periods and spacing.
      •  Done FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • "Milonni, Peter W; Eberly, Joseph H ", "Harris, Jay C" and "Lindsey, Jack L" -- missing periods after initials.
      •  Done FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Stampers, National Association of Drop Forgers and (1957). Metal treatment and drop forging. -- page range?
    • Lindsey, Jack L (1997). Applied illumination engineering. pp. 112–. ISBN 9780881732122. -- full page range?
      •  Done FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Kane, Raymond; Sell, Heinz (2001). Revolution in lamps: A chronicle of 50 years of progress. pp. 241–. ISBN 9780881733518. -- full page range?
      •  Done Removed due to redundant sources. FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Campbell, Neil (1987). Biology. Menlo Park, Calif.: Benjamin/Cummings Pub. Co.. p. 795. ISBN 0-8053-1840-2. -- this one lists the publication location. To be consistent, all book cites should either list the publication location or they all should not.
      •  Done All citations in the article will not include locations. FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
    • "Citron, M. L. et al. (1977)." lists one author followed by 'et al', while "Lloyd-Jones, D.; Adams, R. J.; Brown, T. M.; Carnethon, M.; Dai, S.; De Simone, G.; Ferguson, T. B.; Ford, E. et al. (2010)." lists 8. The FAC reviewers will want you to be consistent about the point where the 'et al' is placed.
    • "Published online 2007." -- the 2007 is in bold face.
      •  Done FREYWA 09:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to add more comments later. Regards, RJH (talk) 17:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, no offense, but some of the writing needs work. For example:

  • "Freshly exposed sodium ... if left exposed to air": redundancy.
  • "Although the density of alkali metals generally increases along with atomic number, sodium is denser than potassium and is a fairly good heat conductor": The reader may need some context here. Is Sodium the odd element here or is Potassium? What does the heat conduction have to do with the topic?
  • A number of the entries lack context. For example, "At 1.5 Mbar, sodium becomes black,...": it would be helpful to clarify to the reader that pressure is being applied beyond STP. What is the reader supposed to make of: "these high pressure allotropes are insulators and have the electron as an anion"?

Regards, RJH (talk)

  • All fixed. FREYWA 04:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Comments by stone[edit]

The whole Botany, Biological role, Dietary uses, Precautions for metallic sodium sections look odd. The Botany section should be part of a other section. Should also be a animals section be somewhere? The biological role and Dietary uses is very much like the same section in salt. The Precautions for metallic sodium is very odd, it makes it looks like there is no adverse effect of sodium salts. The LD50 for sodium chloride should be mentioned, because there is the chance to reach it especially for children.

--Stone (talk) 22:09, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Botany section has to be moved into the right place.
    •  Done FREYWA 16:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Lethality of sodium salts especially sodium chloride should be mentioned.
  • If there is a difference between Na-Extract and sodium fusion test this should be mentioned or both things should be combined.
    • They're identical.  Done FREYWA 20:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
  • The historic production methods can be moved to the history section.

--Stone (talk) 12:57, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Please wait a moment. This thing can't be done in one day, let alone a sitting. I'm still Doing... it, but the dietary section has been shortened and the botany is up next. FREYWA 16:07, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
This is not a problem that fixing the article takes time. I will help in a very slow pace. --Stone (talk) 22:58, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Yankeesrule3[edit]

  • The lead seems overly short, and could use much more information, especially on its properties.
  • The spectroscopy section needs MAJOR cleanup and only has three refs, all in the same para. It's probably best to remove the section and instead split the information between the characteristics and applications section.
    •  Done FREYWA 03:10, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
  • The isotopes section needs expansion; section used in our guidelines and references page seems to work well.
    •  Done FREYWA 04:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Images in compounds section need work on formatting, and the section itself also seems overly short.
  • It looks weird that the history stops at 1860; it needs reordering of the facts and expansion past the 19th century.
  • Creation does not get its own section, but should probably be merged into occurrence or production, aptly renaming the production section if the latter is chosen.
    •  Done FREYWA 11:46, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Botany should be merged with biological role section, as should dietary uses, but economic impact subsection should be moved into production, again renamed appropriately.
    •  Done FREYWA 16:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
  • See also section looks awkward with only one entry not in the table; maybe should be linked to somewhere else in article, and see also categories are already linked
    •  Done FREYWA 11:46, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Yankeesrule3 (talk) 01:02, 17 November 2011 (UTC) BTW, if someone could review my Alkali metal GAN, I would be grateful.

Comments by Smokefoot[edit]

I am not so expert on reviewing methodologies, but I know the chemistry reasonably well. Here are the issues that caught my eye:

  • Botany and biology might be unified, they deal with the same issues - the role of Na+ in life. Anyway, the comments within botany seemed generic.
    •  Done FREYWA 16:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
  • The applications section needs help. The section mainly deals with Na metal, which is small stuff compared to the big applications of sodium compounds. Possibly applications should be divided into "Sodium metal" (which we knowningly emphasize in element articles, since this is the only article that will deal with such) and "sodium compounds" (billions of kg in use here).
    •  Done FREYWA 20:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
  • ionic radii. We should construct a figure showing a gradient of circles corresponding to the relative ionic radii of the M+ ions. Certain assumptions are required (coordination number, mainly, I think, but all readers of alkali metals should be left with an impression of the relative sizes of their cations. I can do this.
  • Diet: my guess is that most readers will be looking for information about the impact of Na+ in their diet. User:SBHarris is an MD (or at least talks like one) and possibly he could help this section.
    •  Done FREYWA 16:53, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Small but notable chem factoids. We need the reduction potential (the Na+/0 couple). We need to mention sodide (Na-), which always surprises readers. Maybe I missed these in the current draft. I can do this too.

I cannot help very much with these items for a few days, unfortunately. But I will when my traveling is completed.--Smokefoot (talk) 20:58, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Some stuff about the usage of Na as a reductant, either as a metal, amalgam, Na/K alloy, or Na/napthalene or similar compounds should be added. Nergaal (talk) 19:47, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Comments by R8R Gtrs[edit]

I wanted to review it for some weeks, so now it's time.

  • Infobox: Oxidation states +1, 0, -1 really? the article does not name a Na(0) compound. I realize it's common for, say, 3d-metals, but sodium?
    •  Done FREYWA 19:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Lead could be a bit longer.
  • The same ion is also a component of many minerals, such as sodium nitrate. Would it be more correct to name NaNO3 a fertilizer? Always thought that a mineral is something that comes from rocks; sodium chloride is a compound/halite is a mineral.
  • Would like more refs (sometimes it's obvious, but still). Say,
    • forms a white oxide layer.
    • they turn it bright yellow.
      •  Done FREYWA 06:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
    • The conversion of sodium ions to sodium metal required -2.71 volts.
      •  Done FREYWA 05:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
    • Other alkali metal cations reduce at slightly more negative potentials.
      •  Done FREYWA 11:17, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
    • it is viewed as a weak but "hard" Lewis acid.
      •  Done FREYWA 06:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
    • alkali metal exists in a negative oxidation state.
    • which function by interfering with the transport of Na+ in the infecting organism.
    • For example, 360 g of sodium chloride will dissolve in one litre of water at room temperature. This one is a number, so needs a ref more than any other one.
    • Crown ethers, especially 15-crown-5 may be used as a phase-transfer catalyst.
    • sometimes called "soda" in English Soda (a disambig page) doesn't list soaium as a possible meaning, I never thought anyone called sodium "soda."
    • Metallic sodium is mainly used for the production of sodium borohydride, sodium azide, indigo, and triphenylphosphine.
    • Hence, sodium is the most prominent cation in extracellular fluid: the 15 liters of it in a 70 kg human have around 50 grams of sodium, 90% of the body's total sodium content.
    • The renin-angiotensin system and the atrial natriuretic peptide regulate the amount of fluid in the body. Reduction of blood pressure and sodium concentration in the kidney result in the production of renin, which in turn produces aldosterone, retaining sodium in the urine. Because of this, the osmotic pressure changes and osmoregulation systems generate the antidiuretic hormone, causing the body to retain water and restore its total amount of fluid. Receptors in the heart and blood vessels sense the resulting distension and pressure, leading to production of the atrial natriuretic peptide, causing the body to lose sodium in the urine; the osmoregulation systems detect this and remove water, restoring the total fluid levels. At least something, please
  • tmelt, tboil, density, atomic/ionic radii?
  • A practical use for lasers emitting light can be transferred to the Applications section
  • This is because the heat excites sodium atoms and moves Sounds extremely non-understandable since this point for most readers. Do we need this at all?
  • it mainly forms Na2O2 as well as some Na2O. In moist air, sodium hydroxide results.[6] Name all either in formulas or in names.
    •  Done FREYWA 13:51, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Acute neutron radiation... also goes to Applications?
  • Many organosodium compounds have been prepared. May I use this to say the section on organosodium needs to be longer?
  • a compound of sodium with the Latin name of sodanum has the history saved the formula and a ref to prove?
  • meaning headache -> meaning "headache"?
    •  Done FREYWA 13:51, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Smaller quantities of sodium, such as a kilogram, cost far more, in the range of US$165/kg. Merge with the previous para?
  • Though metallic sodium has some important uses, the major applications of sodium use it in its many compounds; why then so little on compounds and so much on the metal? Don't call to cut anything on the metal, but compounds deserve a longer text. Or at least more refs, one for each
  • These ions have a filled 4s shell. 3s maybe? Also, I'd like to see Electrides and sodides cut into two paras, one on electrides and one on sodides

Great respect to the reviewers, they found good points. I've got more to say (unsatisfied how the article reads at some points, such as Commercial production, Physical, Analysis, Applications, but have nothing to offer at the moment), so I hope to get some time and then write more.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 10:34, 5 December 2011 (UTC)