Wikipedia:Peer review/The Monster (novella)/archive1

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The Monster (novella)[edit]

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A short novel/long short story by Stephen Crane, which has received a bit of revival over the past forty years. The article was recently promoted to GA, and I hope to bring it to FAC by the end of the month. Any comments or suggestions regarding the FA criteria would be very welcome! Thanks, María (yllosubmarine) 13:41, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Yomangani

I don't know much about the FAC requirements now (it's all MOS and citation violations, isn't it?), so the comments aren't about that in particular well, that's useful considering that was what was requested:

  • Why is "Judge" in quotes in "Port Jervis resident "Judge" William Howe"?
  • "Judge" was a nickname, as he was in fact a lawyer. María (yllosubmarine) 15:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • How do you feel about footnotes? It looks odd as it is but I don't think it warrants any more explanation in the main text and it would be a shame to drop it. I never feel an article is complete unless it has sections for Notes, Footnotes, Citations, References, Sources, Bibliography and Further Reading. Yomanganitalk 16:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Footnotes are okay, but I think it would be weird to create a new section for just one little nickname. So as not to drop it entirely, I've added it to the newly created William Howe Crane -- with a source and everything! María (yllosubmarine) 19:37, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Thank you, thank you. He's an incredibly dull man, but at least now I have an idea of what Stevie may have looked like had he lived long enough to hit a mid-life crisis. María (yllosubmarine) 21:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I think the "Background" and the writing part of "Writing and publication history" overlap a little in their scope. (opening sentences: "Crane wrote The Monster in the summer of 1897 while working as a journalist"; "Crane began writing The Monster in June 1897 while living in Oxted, England with his companion Cora".) Perhaps "Background and writing" would be a better fit than "Writing and publication history".
  • Good point -- I've combined the sections as suggested, with some rearranging. María (yllosubmarine) 15:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • "the only recorded lynching of a black man in New York during the 1890s" It would be good to get some more context for this: were there hundreds of lynchings outside New York in the 1890s or in New York in the 1880s?
  • Added this snippet: "Of the 1,134 reported lynchings throughout the United States between 1882 and 1899, Lewis was the only black man to be lynched in New York." María (yllosubmarine) 14:49, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
  • "there were detailed accounts published in both the Port Jervis Gazette and the New York Tribune, the latter to which Crane contributed" He contributed to the account or just to the New York Tribune in general? If it is the former then the tone of this part of the article strikes me as a bit odd - the implication here is that the newspaper reports are further evidence that Crane would have known about the lynching, but if he contributed to the report then it is certain he knew about it and we don't need to heap up evidence that he did so.
  • He contributed to the Tribune, not the reports on the lynching published by it. Made this clearer. María (yllosubmarine) 15:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • The publication history was a little confusing; I've changed English to British to avoid the country/language issue. I was a bit puzzled as to why "novelette" was used there and in quotes, but this is later explained at the end of the Style section. I'd either move the explanation up from the style section or drop the "novelette" here.
  • I added the "novelette" mention in this section because of one of the GAC comments, but I agree with you that it's odd. I've removed it for now, but may play with it later. María (yllosubmarine) 15:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • "he desperately required funds". Why? Is this because of costs accruing from the accident? If so, you need to make the connection clearer. If not, why?
  • See, this is what happens when you've written so much about a particular person -- you tend to assume that everyone knows what you know! Crane was always in need of funds, which is what generally spurred his prolific creative output at this time. I've made this clearer, using material from Crane's main article. María (yllosubmarine) 15:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • These first edition descriptions may or may not be useful: [1] [2]
  • Using "African American" in the plot summary struck me as a little anachronistic.
  • Political correctness comes second nature. The story uses "negro", so I'll switch to that for the plot. María (yllosubmarine) 15:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • In the Style section. I wonder how long "some critics" will escape a "who?" tag.
  • "The Monster relies heavily on Crane's signature irony, imagery and symbolism. For example, fire—both literal and symbolic—features prominently throughout the story." This seems a little clunky, both in the flow and as an example of "irony, imagery and symbolism". Perhaps it just needs expanding a bit.
  • What is the "major" climax at the end of the second section? There's Henry's accident at the end of the first section but Tresscott's wife no longer receiving visitors doesn't strike me as comparably climatic.
  • I find "paradoxical" a little strange in "paradoxical themes of deformity and monstrosity" and the subsequent explanation. It isn't really paradoxical - as far as I can see, while the townspeople are monstrous in their treatment of Henry, they were never presented as paragons, and Henry isn't an angelic monster either. Does the "paradoxical" appraisal come from a critic?
  • Yes, that's from Mitchell. I'll see if I can make it clearer. María (yllosubmarine) 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "Henry does not stay far from a racially-implicated stereotype". Is "stay" right there or should it be "stray"? Also, what is a "racially-implicated stereotype"? Is that just a racial stereotype?
  • Doh, it's supposed to be stray -- slip of the finger. Changed. María (yllosubmarine) 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • "The English edition of The Monster was the last volume of Crane's work to be published during his lifetime." The edition published in London was posthumous and the US edition was not the last volume of his work published according to this, so either I'm missing something or this is wrong.
  • My fault; according to Weatherford, The Monster and Other Stories (1899) was the last volume of Crane's work published during his lifetime. María (yllosubmarine) 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Weatherford is wrong though according to the bibliography. Last major collection maybe? Yomanganitalk 15:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Ah, I see what you mean. Changed to "collection", much better. María (yllosubmarine) 16:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • There are quite a lot of "upons" (based upon, set upon, call upon, spilling upon). Fowler hates "upon", he thinks it is "elegant variation". I'm not that keen on Fowler myself but you might want to de-"up" a couple.
  • The first edition image might have to be brought over to en WP if the image checkers are being particularly picky, as it is not a 2D reproduction (and therefore the photographer is said to have some creative input). Borderline case though - you'd have to be a real pedant to insist on that (Yes, that is directed at you, person checking the images at FAC and looking back at the PR)
  • TK said as much during the GAC. I personally think it's silly, so I'm hoping it won't come to that! I'm prepared to simply substitute a portrait of Crane if need be, but I won't be happy about it, grumble grumble. María (yllosubmarine) 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • And lastly: it's an interesting, comprehensive, well-balanced and easy read. I'd let it have a star after a little dusting (applications for my rival FA programme will be invited soon).

Yomanganitalk 13:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

  • You're awesome like a hot dog. Many, many belated thanks! María (yllosubmarine) 15:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)