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April 23[edit]

SF Bay Area TV and Philly soul connection[edit]

Sometime back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, when I was a kid, KTVU would air Super Sunday Cinema and KTVU Presents. They each had intros and outros with songs by MFSB. The latter's song was, "T.L.C. (Tender Lovin' Care)." (That song was also used in commercials for the Oakland Zoo.) I'm trying to figure out the former's song by the same artist. If anyone out there has more information on what I'm talking about, please let me know. Thank you.2604:2000:7113:9D00:49A1:292B:E3FB:1FAE (talk) 06:57, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

mike ehrmantraut-like characters[edit]

friends, I would like to know the movies that has characters like Mike Ehrmantraut (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul) - a fixer and wise guy. I also see Mike's similarities with Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem from No country for old men). What are the other movies/tv shows that have characters like this? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.207.191.148 (talk) 10:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Winston Wolfe, Harvey Keitel's character in Pulp Fiction would fit your description. Grutness...wha? 10:25, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
The article Cleaner (crime) lists a few more. Grutness...wha? 07:54, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you Grutness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.207.188.58 (talk) 20:11, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Pace makers in marathons[edit]

Hi all - I'm currently watching the London marathon, and wondering why this marathon and some others (e.g., Boston, Berlin) use pace makers. They're not used in Olympic competition, and surely in a race that is as tactical as a marathon can work against individual athletes strategies. Is there any reason I can't think of why they're still used? Thanks in advance, Grutness...wha? 10:24, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Pacemaker (running) explains it quite clearly. Wymspen (talk) 12:23, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Gah - I looked under marathon but didn't think to look for that! Thanks! Grutness...wha? 02:26, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

April 24[edit]

Soap opera editing cliche[edit]

Hi all - I'm looking for the name of a specific film/television editing technique which has become a bit of a cliche in TV soap operas. When there is a discussion or argument between two on-screen characters and one walks out of the room, the camera will often pause in a close-up on the face of the remaining character for a longer time than would be natural, in order to focus on the emotions they are (often badly) portraying. If there is one, what (other than, potentially, long take) is the name of this technique? Thanks in advance, Grutness...wha? 07:46, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

The technique has been around for a while. Mike Nichol's used it (sort of) in that memorable final shot of The Graduate and repeatedly in Carnal Knowledge. I hope these help others in tracking down the info that you are looking for Grutness. MarnetteD|Talk 14:34, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
TV Tropes subsumes it among reaction shots (including more specific variations such as the eye take, the loud gulp, the shrug take, and so forth). Aha, we (as in WP) even have an article on reaction shot. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:28, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Excellent - thanks! (PS - Reaction shot wasn't in Category:Film editing, which I hunted through, so I've added it there) Grutness...wha? 01:38, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

What does a film story look like?[edit]

So take the film Mr. Bean's Holiday. It credits its screenplay writers, but it also credits "Story by". My question is: what does this 'story' look like on paper? Not a script presumably. Amisom (talk) 20:35, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

I imagine it varies. For a film based on a novel, the novel itself is the story. More typically it might be a Film treatment. Staecker (talk) 20:57, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
In many cases it's an actual script. If the script is heavily re-written the original author may not receive a script writing credit, but the author of the original script is entitled to at least the "story by" credit", under the principal of the Irreducible Story Minimum. (See WGA_screenwriting_credit_system#Story_by, "Screen Credits Manual", and this helpful summary from NextVEntertainment blog.)
ApLundell (talk) 21:45, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

April 25[edit]

Spanish spoken on Ingobernable[edit]

I have started watching the series 'Ingobernable. I'm finding it a little bit suspicious how easy it is to understand their spoken Spanish (say, compared to the Spanish spoken on other series, eg. Club de Cuervos ) Is it just me, or are the actors being very careful to speak very proper standard international Spanish? Does it sound natural to a native speaker of Spanish? Duomillia (talk) 17:22, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

It is a drama about politicians - well-educated, affluent people in any culture tend to speak the standardised version of a language, not the dialects and slang of the poor. Wymspen (talk) 13:49, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

name of the film with men in keffiyeh or ghutra[edit]

I remember there was this film, a Hollywood film, with I think Danny Devito or Robert DeNiro and an African-American actor and they were speaking fake Arabic and wearing the Ghutra, the Arab headscarf for men. Does anybody know the name of the film? I remember this film was released in I think early 2000s like from 2001 to 2003. Donmust90 (talk) 20:31, 25 April 2017 (UTC)Donmust90Donmust90 (talk)

You really confuse DiNiro and Devito ? (Well, one was a Taxi Driver and the other was a Taxi dispatcher, so I can see the confusion.) :-) StuRat (talk) 00:33, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The Jewel of the Nile?
ApLundell (talk) 02:30, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

April 26[edit]

What film was that please?[edit]

In one scene a proud father introduces the pair of his offsprings to a visitor. The son can barely speak, even in his gibberish mumble-jumble due to insanely high number of piercing-rings he is wearing on almost every part of his face (including eyelids) - which are almost hidden behind 'em.

As for the girl, when dad mentions her talent at dancing, she gets inspired rather too quickly, fortunately finding a miscellaneous pole nearby, instantly starts showing off her talent thru a comically energetic form of strip-dancing of a most cheap style.

Can someone please be kind enough to let me know it's title?2405:205:408C:49B5:0:0:21BE:E0AC (talk) 03:49, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

What's your guess on when it was released? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Given the subject matter, it's unlikely to have been a silent film. We're obviously looking for something in the 21st century. Matt Deres (talk) 12:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Maybe the OP could tell us whether it was closer to 2001 or closer to 2017. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Also don't assume it is an English movie. Questions from IPs in that region are regular here, asking many questions about movies from India. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 17:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)


OP: No, it was a Hollywood for sure, I saw it on Star Movies or HBO. I remember clearly the cast was white. Saw it in late '80. 2405:205:4082:5214:0:0:22DD:40AD (talk) 08:48, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

The ballad of the green beret, the butcher's boy,[edit]

In the article Ballad of the Green Berets, one line reads "The tune is borrowed from a traditional American folk song, The Butcher Boy." I've listened to multiple versions of both and can't hear the resemblance, the chords for both ("The Butcher's Boy" chords, "The Ballad of the Green Berets" chords) do feature a similar CGC sequence, but comparing the sheet music ("The Butcher's Boy" sheet music, "The Ballad of the Green Berets" sheet music) and admittedly my ability to read music is somewhat lacking, the two don't appear to be the same. I've tried googling "The Butcher Boy" and "Ballad of the Green Beret's" together and all the top ghits appear to quote the two involved Wikipedia articles.

So my questions are, are the two tunes in fact the same and there is a transposition that I can't hear or see, or if the tunes I've found are different, is there another American tune of the song "The Butcher's Boy" that differs significantly from the Irish and English traditions. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this.--KTo288 (talk) 12:39, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

"Nature I loved, and next to Nature Art, and Art, you know, was the butcher's boy". DuncanHill (talk) 15:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
You are correct in your assessment. The problem is, we really don't know the "American" version of "The Butcher Boy" as much as we know the "English" and "Irish" versions of the tune. If you try and match up those melodies with "The Green Berets" you will be shaking your head. The chord progressions and tunes are completely different. Listen to the Clancy Brother's here: [1] who reference this tune as an English tune but better known in America as "Tarrytown" [2]. The format of the original lyrics for "Butcher Boy": [3] definitely served as a model for the "Green Beret" lyrical format and structure; and I would imagine if you heard the original American Folk Song; there would be a better alignment between the two that inspired Staff Sgt. Barry Sadler to model his lyrics after. I think the article, though, needs a reliable source to back up the claim since most online sources tend to cite WP / Wiki. In the end, I think Sadler wrote a set of verse, and with a faint familiar tune in mind (not being a songwriter); and someone wanted to cash in on it. So they hired an arranger who tweaked the melody and chords (and feel) to make it into the hit song we know today. Which is far from the original "tune": Butcher Boy. Maineartists (talk) 17:42, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Kelly Harrell's 1925 American version sounds more like Green Berets to me. Listen on Youtube: [4] Rmhermen (talk) 15:29, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

British accents in films[edit]

With my American ears, I can distinguish three different kinds of accents in British actors - fancy accent (spoken by the upper class), not-so-fancy accent (spoken by the lower/uneducated class), and pirate accent. The fancy accent type is extremely widespread. If you want a stereotypical British person in a movie, then that is the go-to accent. The non-so-fancy accent type is manifested in the Artful Dodger in Oliver! (1968). The Artful Dodger says, "In me own carriage . . . I'll do anything for you deah anything!" He just doesn't talk or sing like a typical British person in film. Are actors all required to audition in that fancy accent during auditioning regardless of origin? 50.4.236.254 (talk) 13:07, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

The fancy accent is usually received pronunciation, which is often called posh. There are numerous "lower-class" English accents including Geordie (northeast England) (Brian Johnson), Cockney (Michael Caine) and other dialects of estuary English (Adele) (southeast England), Mancunian (Noel Gallagher) (Manchester area), Scouse (Paul McCartney) (Merseyside/Liverpool), Brummie (Ozzy Osbourne) (Midlands/Birmingham), and many more. The Pirate accent is West Country English; that spoken along the southwestern peninsula including Devon and Cornwall. --Jayron32 13:17, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
I disagree with you (and with the posh accent article). RP is not posh, the whole point is that it's a neutral accent stripped of class and regional associations. Brian Sewell did not speak in RP. --Viennese Waltz 13:59, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
Then you're going to have to find citations and fix it. I will note that this article and this discussion at quora, and this article and this article. Those were random selections from the first two pages of a Google search. If you have competing sources, please fix the relevent Wikipedia articles using information from them. --Jayron32 14:04, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
I've added some well-known speakers of each dialect, so you can pull up youtube videos and listen for yourself. --Jayron32 13:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The West Country English article has a sound clip in it, but I can't say she sounds much like a pirate. The typical movie pirate accent seems to be a strange mix of middle English, as in "ye", and ebonics, as in "Where ye be ?" StuRat (talk) 13:49, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The referenced citation in the article West Country English states, and I quote, "The West Country accent is probably most identified in film as "pirate speech" – cartoon-like "Ooh arr, me 'earties! Sploice the mainbrace!" talk is very similar." It is cited to reference #24, which is the book Piracy, The Complete History. Here, on page 313, it discusses the West Country Accent being used for Robert Newton's portrayal of Long John Silver, which became the type-standard for the "pirate accent" in popular culture. --Jayron32 13:59, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
That accent is Bristol - head down to Devon or Cornwall (which was where many of the sailors came from) and it gets quite a lot stronger. You must also distinguish accent and dialect - "where d'ye be" is dialect (which you could say in any accent. There are also a lot of specifically nautical phrases like "splice the mainbrace" which can also be said in any accent. Wymspen (talk) 14:03, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The Bristol accent is very different indeed from those of Cornwall or Devon, and even from those of Somerset or Gloucestershire. No one would mistake a Bathonian for a Bristolian. There's a blogpost with some interesting links here. DuncanHill (talk) 14:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

April 27[edit]

Was Sulu a botanist in Star Trek TOS episode The Man Trap ?[edit]

Later on he worked on the bridge, so this seems like an odd career path. But, he was seemingly working as a botanist in this episode. Was this just supposed to be a hobby, or had the writers not yet decided on the final role for Sulu ? (Note that this was the first episode to be broadcast.) StuRat (talk) 00:37, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

According to our article Hikaru Sulu, it was one of his hobbies – see Section 2.1 Depiction: Original series and films, which includes the text:
"Throughout the series, Sulu is shown having many interests and hobbies, including gymnastics, botany,[14] fencing,[15] and ancient weaponry.[16]"
{The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.217.249.244 (talk) 04:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
That's nott necessarily correct. The reference after the word botany is a link to The Man Trap and in the plot section it says "Yeoman Janice Rand (Grace Lee Whitney) into the botanical laboratory as she brings Lieutenant Hikaru Sulu (George Takei) his lunch". So it isn't clear why Sulu the physicist was there. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 05:34, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Maybe he wanted to branch out! Oh, I amuse myself! According to Memory Alpha, evidence of Sulu's interest in botany extend to two other episodes (ref), The Naked Time and Shore Leave. Matt Deres (talk) 16:49, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Warcraft lore: has any character changed race?[edit]

I know that in the lore of World of Warcraft, Thrall at some point deleted his warrior character (which he was playing in Durnholde Keep) and rolled a shaman, but he was still an orc. Likewise, Arthas went from human paladin to human death knight. Have any characters in Warcraft lore changed their race when they rerolled? NeonMerlin 22:24, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Garona the halforc was a half human in the original game (Orcs v. Humans), later retconned into a half-dranai by one of the WoW expansions, and as of the recent movie appears to be half-human again. Iapetus (talk) 08:35, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

April 28[edit]

Shotgun Radio - Black Water lyrics[edit]

Can't find lyrics for Shotgun Radio - Black Water. If this is the case, could someone email me by hearing? Can't discern myself. Thanks. Brandmeistertalk 16:25, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

April 29[edit]

Threatened Editing Warring[edit]

This is not a forum for allegations of edit warring. Please see WP:EW and if necessary take it to WP:AN/EW
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Hi,

I'm having a problem with another editor who keeps reverting my short edit.

A British TV show uses a significant chunk of a Christmas song that has been wildly popular in the United Kingdom for the last 50 years. But this song is almost entirely unknown outside of the United Kingdom.

The other editor, AlexTheWhovian, who is from the United Kingdom thinks my short sentence about this song trivial. And trivial is not worth Wiki.

As someone from the 90% of the non-United Kingdom world, I was disappointed to not see the song on the British TV shows page. And added it.

The other editor is now threatening to report me for editing warring.

What can I do?

The TV show is Doctor Who, the episode is "Last Christmas".

The sentence I wish to add is "The song that Shona dances to is Slade's 1973 number one single Merry Xmas Everybody."

My citation is http://www.vulture.com/2014/12/doctor-who-christmas-special-2014.html

The article states, "One of the most thoroughly foreign flourishes of the Who Christmas specials — to pretty much everyone living outside the U.K. — is the repeated use of Slade’s “Merry Xmas Everybody,”

Please advise.

Thank you.

KenJacowitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 02:06, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Would have appreciated being notified of this. (Is this even the right place for this?) The editor has been notified that the content being added is trivial, and simply because a song is apparently "unknown" outside of the United Kingdom (which I do not, in fact, live in), it does not mean it needs to be added to the article. It's a song she listened to. And? How does that have relevance? We are not a site to just list every detail that crosses our heads; however, the editor above continues to add it after being warned by myself and another editor. -- AlexTW 02:39, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


Alex, you threatened "be reported for edit-warring. (TW))" I made a small add for the 90% of the world that was unfamiliar with a quintessentially British perennial Christmas song. The edit-war you started is trivial. I did not revert anything you added. I have made a hundred edits and have always had good relations with other editors. Wiki I've read many pages that mention use of songs from modern television shows to use in period historical adaptations of Shakespeare. I've always thought of them as added content, not trivia. Which is why I would like to ask a third party.

Alex, sorry, I'm on the other side of the Earth, and tired and about to go to bed. Yes, Australia has not been a part of the United Kingdom for many years. I meant Commonwealth of Nations.

The other editor did not say my add was trivial. He rightfully disagreed with a citation I wished to use about tracks on a CD. He explained, I agreed. And I reverted that add myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KenJacowitz (talkcontribs) 03:57, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

You are continuously attempting to force you disputed content into the article - that is edit-warring per WP:EW. Again: one song being in an episode irrelevant, we do not add every song in every television episode that has ever aired. It brings no further understanding to the content of the article. Me being part of the "Commonwealth of Nations" really has zero standing here, I'm not sure how it was even raised. Furthermore, when posting on talk pages, please sign your posts with ~~~~. Cheers. -- AlexTW 04:12, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Dr. Sevrin's Ears[edit]

In the Star Trek episode The Way to Eden, the leader of the hippie band, carrier of a deadly plague, has deformed (or manipulated) bat shaped ears. Is this ever explained? It is not in our article, nor is it addressed in the episode itself. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 03:18, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

He's supposed to be Tiburonian, and that's how that species looks (males are also bald): [5]. Funny how they switched from weird ears in TOS to gluing silicone on the forehead for every new species in TNG. StuRat (talk) 05:06, 29 April 2017 (UTC)