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October 3[edit]

What happened to the annual September monument photo contest this year?[edit]

I realize this may not be the best place to ask this question, but I couldn't find a better one.

I have participated in this contest since 2012, when I believe it was called Wikipedia Loves Monuments. I have contributed photos to the NRHP list for several central Iowa counties. I was only able to view Wikipedia on my smart phone during most of September and could not see the full main page.

I know I can add photos to this list anytime, but I looked forward to the contest. Was it cancelled this year? Cancelled for good?CelticClicker (talk) 04:03, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

@CelticClicer: It's here. Dismas|(talk) 04:13, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
How do you get around "Freedom of Panorama" restrictions? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:39, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
@Baseball Bugs: What restrictions are you talking about? Dismas|(talk) 01:52, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
That the USA lacks "Freedom of Panorama", so for example I cannot upload pictures of statues and tombstones and the like, as they will be deleted by FOP watchdogsd. As I understand it, some European nations are even stricter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:37, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
The US does allow FOP for buildings. Also there are all monuments too old for any copyright protection. Note also a number of countries are also less strict than the US (most commonly, allowing 3D artworks and often 2D as well). Surprisingly the us WLM page doesn't seem to mention FOP at all [1] but the general WLM FAQ does Commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2015/FAQ#What is the minimum setup for a national Wiki Loves Monuments competition?. I presume when the Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places list was drawn up, attention was already paid to FOP issues. Nil Einne (talk) 03:51, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
@Dismas:A related question about uploading photos. I have uploaded two photos, one each to the NRHP lists for Clay County and Palo Alto County, Iowa respectively. When I click the upload photo link in the list it takes me to the upload wizard for Summer of Monuments. Should I continue to use this wizard? Will using it land my photos in a Wikipedia black hole until the next time the USA participates in the Wiki Loves Monuments contest? What would you suggest?CelticClicker (talk) 21:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
@CelticClicker: I have no idea. I just found the link with a little sleuthing. I don't know very much at all about the event. Dismas|(talk) 23:58, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Could placing enough climbable things amongst big crowds prevent disasters?[edit]

Maybe ladders securely rooted in the ground and oriented to not block traffic? How does processionary asphyxiation still happen even in industrialized nations (Love Parade). It's just simple geometry, it seems like there's got to be simple way(s) to stop these tragedies. Are there any problems with this idea? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:02, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Of course I understand that fully understanding the physics of crowd disasters is not as easy as ameliorating them but stopping people from dying is more important. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:08, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

One type of crush injury is when a crowd moves up against a solid object, and those in front are crushed to death. That risk can be reduced by using fences designed to fall over if enough force is applied. Of course, this provides some extra area, but eventually the crowd will push into the next barrier. And the fallen fences must not present a trip hazard.
When people are rushing the stage of a concert, you can pull those in front up onto stage, but that might motivate those in back to push even harder.
Another type of crush injury is when panic causes everyone to try to run, and they trample those who fall.
Ultimately, you just need to limit the quantity and density of people to prevent such injuries. Having small groups separated into "pens" would be one way to keep the total crush pressure low. Another simple solution is to have seats and no standing room area. With seats you can only pack in so many people. If anyone attempts to remain standing, they will be yelled at by everyone who's view is being blocked.
For something like the Hajj, they could have a continuous train with seats and no standing room, that circles the Kaaba the required number of times and then departs. If one isn't enough, they could have several at different elevations. They might also want to extend the Hajj to 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Of course, much of this might run into religious objections. StuRat (talk) 19:17, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
The circling of the Kaaba is usually pretty orderly. Most of the crowd disasters during the hajj occur elsewhere. The most dangerous by far is the stoning of the devil ritual, which is where the latest disaster occurred (as have many previous ones), because a lot of people get channeled into very narrow areas. -- (talk) 05:56, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
OK, they could have trains take people past those 3 walls, then, with open sides so they can throw their stones. StuRat (talk) 20:49, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • It's worth pointing out that at the Love Parade disaster, the steps and ladders played a major part in the catastrophe - they caused bottlenecks and were easy to fall from, especially when things were chaotic and quite a few people were drunk. Simiarly, the awful Victoria Hall and Bethnal Green disasters was caused by people hurrying on stairs, tripping, and causing a chain reaction. The only disaster I can think of where people did manage to successfully escape by climbing was the Hillsborough disaster, where fans inside the fenced-in terrace were able to climb the fence to safety. Ultimately, the answer to these disasters is to design areas where the exits are larger and easier to use than the entrances, but that's often easier said than done, since a perfectly engineered building may still be poorly organised (if you believe Saudi Arabia's side of the story, the disaster at the Hajj was caused by one of the exits becoming unexpectedly blocked by a group of pilgrims leaving without permission). Smurrayinchester 21:33, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
(Misremembered the Victoria Hall disaster - although it happened on stairs, and tripping played a role, the disaster was ultimately caused by an unexpected locked door, and led to the introduction of the crash bar door). Smurrayinchester 14:51, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

October 4[edit]

Hurtgen Forest[edit]

From a tactical POV, would the Battle of the Hurtgen Forest be considered an example of jungle warfare? 2601:646:8E01:9089:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 00:14, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

No, because it's not a jungle. KägeTorä - () (もしもし!) 08:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • There are some similarities - Hürtgen Forest was very dense and rough (the article mentions the use of "tree burst" artilery fire, targeting trees to produce large amounts of dangerous splinters), and wet, poorly maintained roads were nearly impassable. However, there are also some differences: it took place in the European winter, so snow and cold were bigger threats than heat and mosquitoes. Smurrayinchester 16:44, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I was asking more in terms of troop movements and other combat-related matters, not in terms of non-combat health hazards. 2601:646:8E01:9089:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 08:38, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Looking for a specific Iron Man scene on Youtube[edit]

I think this scene is from Iron Man 3 but my roommate says it's from Iron Man 1. Tony Stark has lost his suit, and so he has to build a bunch of homemade contraptions and infiltrate somewhere. The scene I'm specifically looking for is when he uses a Christmas Ornament that explodes and fills the guard's face with shards of glass. Can anyone find that scene? If I have to use Youtube's "link to a specific time in the middle of a video" that's okay. --Aabicus (talk) 01:02, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't recall that scene, but it's definitely not from the first movie or the second. It could be from the third movie, but it's not mentioned in our plot synopsis. I haven't seen IM3 since it came out and it was mostly forgettable, so I can't definitely say whether it was in the film or not. Are you absolutely sure it was an Iron Man flick? In any case, we're not going to link to a copyrighted movie. (talk) 16:08, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
It's likely from the third movie when he loses his suit in that kids garage and has to infiltrate Mandarin's lair without the suit. Dismas|(talk) 16:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
There's a toy set called "Tony Stark the Mechanic" for Iron Man 3 and it comes with a Christmas ornament among other holdable tools, so its definitely from 3. 2600:100C:B01D:63B8:E3F8:317D:B1AA:1B83 (talk) 16:44, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

How many airplanes have crashed in Alaska but never been found according to the Rescue Coordination Center records in Anchorage, Alaska?[edit]

Thank you very much in advance for your time and efforts....they are so very much appreciated. This is a topic that I have followed for years as an aviation enthusiast here in Alaska. At the last updating of my records, my figures indicated the number to be approximately 63 including both civilian and military aircraft missing combined total. Your assistance in updating my information as well as supplying any useful links to continue said updates on my own again would be so gratefully appreciated! Rodney J. Rainey Eagle River, Alaska [Redacted] — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:04, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Not really a proper answer but this indicates that before WW2 no records were kept. Also it seems that all the records prior to 1994 have been lost. Finally an aircraft may have departed from a place in Alaska, never arrived at its destination but could have crashed in Canada. Does the Alaska RCC have any information? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 12:33, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Here's a news report about four missing in 1935. And another five from that winter. Have you counted those? InedibleHulk (talk) 07:20, October 7, 2015 (UTC)

Human chess[edit]

User:Minorfixaccount asked this question about human chess almost two and a half years ago: "Piece captures are represented by choreographed fights that determine whether the piece is actually taken or not." How would this work? If a piece moves onto another pieces square, it's captured. It's completely deterministic, the stage fight wouldn't deliver the capture information, the piece's movement would. For example, if a pawn moves to another pawn's square, and they have a stage fight, the moving pawn should always win. So what is there to determine? Are the rules of the variant of Human Chess being talked about somehow different from Inanimate Chess? AFAICS, Minorfixaccount never received a reply. I have to ask the same question. The only difference between human chess and normal chess is that the pieces are represented by actual living humans. The actual rules remain the exact same. So what is there to determine? This is not exactly Archon, but your bog-standard, common-or-garden chess. JIP | Talk 20:38, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it would be a pretend battle with the outcome already determined, like a Civil War battle reenactment. Note that depending on the size of the squares and the costumes, there might not be room for both on the same square, so the battle would need to take place when they are on adjacent squares. (Human chess seems problematic for knights, which can jump over other pieces, as actually jumping over people with horses is rather dangerous.) StuRat (talk) 20:43, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. Minorfixaccount doesn't seem to have edited anything for almost two years, so I'm not sure if this will help him/her, but it does help me. I have personally seen a human chess match (see the second picture in the article, with the body painted people). There were no horses, the knights were simply designated with pictures. The actual playing was done by two professional-league Austrian chess players, who told the pieces what to do. Battles were elaborate displays, but with pre-determined outcomes, and no actual physical contact. JIP | Talk 20:50, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Right, but they still can't jump over other players, so that means the knights would have to shuffle past everyone in their way, which wouldn't look much like chess, IMHO. StuRat (talk) 20:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
If the squares were considerably larger than the space taken up by a person (eg suppose they were 5'x5') then it would be easy to walk or run between other players when performing a knight's move - and there would be room within a square for a credible hand-to-hand combat. As theater - I could see it being workable. There have been many computer game chess implementations that pull off the hand-to-hand combat trick quite nicely. This YouTube video: shows some of the hilarious animations in "Battle Chess", for example. SteveBaker (talk) 13:30, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
"I suggest a new strategy, R2. Let the Wookie win." Deor (talk) 22:54, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Tangentially, Edgar Rice Burroughs' novel The Chessmen of Mars featured a combination of Gladiatorial combat and (Martian) Chess in which the capture or not was determined by the outcome of fights to the death between the 'pieces' concerned. {The poster formerly known as} (talk) 13:40, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello old boy! You might find the Star Trek novel The Final Reflection interesting. A large amount of the opening chapters is devoted to the Klingon equivalent of chess both on the board and with living pieces and the games with living pieces are actual fights and can go either way. For example in the board game a "blockader" piece can't be taken. In the living game this doesn't apply and blockaders who try and rely on the board game rules learn otherwise the hard way. Hope this helps old bean! Quintessential British Gentleman (talk) 22:17, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

October 5[edit]

Is Japanese informal attire Western‐based?[edit]

I had another interesting dream tonight, and it made me wonder if business wear is a Western invention. Suits are, as I just found out tonight, but I don’t know if the Japanese people have an equivalent. I thought that if they did have one, it would be archaic by now. Are all Japanese business clothes copied from the West? --Romanophile (talk) 01:17, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, men's clothes are copied from the West. Interestingly, some girls and women wear clothes inspired by Western sailors, as in the manga Sailor Moon.
And yes, there is also traditional Japanese formal and informal attire, although it would tend to vary by class, etc., which wouldn't be appropriate for business. StuRat (talk) 01:42, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
You may be interested in our History of suits article. Western dress seems to be almost universal for Japanese salarymen; a quick Google search brought up a mass of images like this and this. The transition to western styling came with the Meiji Restoration during the 1870s, when there was a concerted drive, led by Japan's most powerful feudal dynasties, to modernise the country, particularly in the areas of trade and industry. I believe that Japanese men often dress up in traditional costume for their wedding. Alansplodge (talk) 15:10, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
The Japanese word for a (Western) suit, sebiro, is written with Kanji 背広, meaning back broad; but it is certainly a loanword. The origin is not certain, but the most common origin given is that it is from English "civil", i.e. a "civil" uniform, as opposed to the military uniforms which were adopted at the same period. --ColinFine (talk) 17:14, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
From my memory of what that delightful rogue, possible love-child of Lafcadio Hearn and Ambrose Bierce, and Order of the Sacred Treasure recipient Jack Seward wrote in one of his many books, sebiro was a wry Meiji period pun on "Savile Row".
Yes, yes, Seward was what I was reading when I should have been studying my Tōyō kanji.
--Shirt58 (talk) 10:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
That is an alternative theory, but I think it is less favoured by the sources. In my opinion, if that were the origin, it would be sebirurou. --ColinFine (talk) 13:53, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Run through the jungle ;-)[edit]

In jungle warfare, what's the maximum distance a small unit operating behind enemy lines can reasonably travel in 1 hour? (Assume that they are not under artillery fire at any time, that they can easily bypass any likely minefields and therefore don't have to minesweep, and that the main threat to them is from snipers and the occasional (well-concealed but non-overlapping) pillboxes and machine-gun nests.) 2601:646:8E01:9089:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 08:47, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Is this really "jungle" if there are pillboxes? Itsmejudith (talk) 09:22, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
See Battle of the Gifu, Battle of Mount Song, Battle of Tarawa, Battle of Saipan, Battle of the Hurtgen Forest, Battle of Iwo Jima, De Lattre Line, Battle of Na San, Battle of Muong Khoua, Battle of Dien Bien Phu, Battle of Ia Drang, Battle of Dong Xoai, and numerous others. 2601:646:8E01:9089:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 12:19, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I've been to Vietnam and am still not convinced that pillboxes are found in thick forest, not in great number anyway. Itsmejudith (talk) 18:09, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
A typical range will vary from perhaps a hundred yards in thick jungle to perhaps six miles on foot, depending on the availability of tracks and roads and the time taken to avoid the dangers. Dbfirs 09:31, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! So the main factor is how many snipers/pillboxes/etc. they're up against, right? (Condition #2 (or is it #4?): they can't use the trails because these are enfiladed by enemy machine guns which must be taken out first.) 2601:646:8E01:9089:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 12:19, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Maybe, but a major factor (I would have thought the main one) is the thickness of the jungle. If they cannot use trails, then cutting their way through thick jungle is going to take a long time. My top limit of six miles was "scout's pace" along clear tracks, not achievable in your circumstances. Dbfirs 15:45, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't know much about military action, but I know a few things about moving through forests. Consider that not all "jungle" has dense understory requiring machete work. E.g. I could sustain 6 mph movement through this [2] but not through this [3]. Both photos are from Barro Colorado Island, a semi-typical neotropical forest AKA "jungle". For Asia, some young-growth forests are very open in the understory, like this Thai example [4]. Here's another example of a very open "jungle" in India [5]. Mainly, I agree that terrain and cover type are a huge factor, independent of any suppressing fire. If OP has never spent time in a tropical forest, I suggest touring a bit via google images. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I did not actually have in mind a real tropical jungle -- rather, I had in mind a temperate "jungle" like this place. (Yes, I know that technically it's not a jungle -- but tactically it's very similar to jungle warfare, except that most non-combat casualties were from frostbite rather than malaria.) 2601:646:8E01:9089:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 03:33, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Train speed limit[edit]

In the video at this source regarding today's derailment of a train in Vermont, governor Shumlin mentions that the speed limit at that point in the track is 59 mph. Why not 60? Do train companies not like round numbers? Dismas|(talk) 19:17, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a ref for why, but Rail speed limits in the United States notes common limits at 49, 59, and 79 mph, so the 10n-1 pattern is commonplace. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 20:11, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Since it's so much like the 99 cent pattern at the end of prices to make prices seem lower than they are, I have to suspect that the goal is to make the speed limit seem like less than it is (to make the townspeople feel safer than they really are). StuRat (talk) 22:02, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
No, you don't have to suspect. You can look it up. That's what we do here. See Tevildo's answer. -- (talk) 04:41, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
His answer takes some fact, in his case where various speed restrictions apply, and then speculates that this is why speed limits are set just below that limit, to avoid those restrictions. Similarly my answer takes some fact, that retail prices are set like that to make them seem lower, and then speculates that this is why speed limits are set just below that limit. The fact I used (why prices are set like that) is so widely known as to not require a reference. StuRat (talk) 16:03, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Ok, but maybe when you've received the Nth complaint about guessing/speculation/not looking things up/not citing references, you might consider that the criticisms may have some validity... SemanticMantis (talk) 22:44, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I would not be surprised if the reason is that somewhere someone wrote a law / regulation that says something to the effect of "and under these conditions trains must travel less than 60 mph" rather than "and under these conditions trains must travel no more than 60 mph", such that an injudicious phrasing resulted in allowed speeds of "59 mph and below" rather than "60 mph and below". Dragons flight (talk) 22:08, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
The regulations (linked from the rail speed limits article above) actually say "where a passenger train is operated at a speed of 60 or more miles per hour, or a freight train is operated at a speed of 50 or more miles per hour [various restrictions apply]". So the 10x-1 rule is to ensure the train stays in the "low speed" part of the regulatory regime. The speed could be legally as high as 59.99999 mph, but when it reaches 60, it's into the "high speed" region. Tevildo (talk) 23:18, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Dismas|(talk) 00:29, 6 October 2015 (UTC)


October 6[edit]

Why are the sides of pages on a dictionary coloured with dots?[edit]

Why are the sides of pages on a dictionary coloured with dots? —Skyllfully (talk | contribs) 13:22, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, they should match up with the letters that they cover. So one dot would be the A section, another would be the B section, and so on. Dismas|(talk) 13:27, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I thought Skyllfully meant the "sprinkled edges" you will find with some older fat books. Wikisource has a description of the technique in Joseph Zaehnsdorf's The Art of Bookbinding (Chapter 16), for example. I don't know why some reference works still do this, while most other types of books don't. ---Sluzzelin talk 13:58, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Sluzzelin that was what I was looking for! —Skyllfully (talk | contribs) 19:57, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

What is a "romantic relationship with an owl" and is this right?[edit]

I saw my niece today she is a very intelligent young woman in her early 20s and I have always been proud of her. Today she told me that she was in a "romantic relationship with an owl", and asked me to accept it. Am I being old fashioned - what does she mean? Question of owl (talk) 13:52, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

She means it's none of your business who she's in a relationship with and don't hassle her to find out! --TammyMoet (talk) 14:12, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
That's certainly possible. Another possibility might be that she is romantically involved with human person who identifies as an Otherkin, and considers themselves in some sense to be all or part owl. See also Roleplay. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:55, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Ask her if she has recently read a book by Anahareo. Could be a literary allusion. (talk) 15:07, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Could be an older, wiser lady, but she could also be involved with a jock from Temple University, a member of a secret fraternal society, a member of an indie rock band, or any of several other things. Why don't you just ask her "What the heck's an owl?" Deor (talk) 15:47, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your replies so far even the person who told me to mind my own business! The impression I had when I asked her about it is that by "owl" she means the feathered bird of prey if that helps, although I still do not understand how and what this means. Question of owl (talk) 16:04, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Googling "urban dictionary owl", various possibilities arise, none of which have to do with actual owls. If someone tells you they're dating an owl, ask them what they mean by "owl". And if they say, "It's none of your business", your response should be, "Then why did you bring it up?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
She probably means that she's single and has an owl as a pet. --Viennese Waltz 17:49, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
By what wording did she convey that "by 'owl' she means the feathered bird of prey"? You obviously have more information than us mere Reference desk habitues. Could you ask her if she means literally an owl or figuratively? Ask her if her relationship with the owl is pleasant. Ask her if the owl has talons. Ask her if the owl's trait for wisdom rings true in her relationship with the bird. Bus stop (talk) 17:58, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Googling the acronym OWL, I get a LOT of hits for "older, wiser lesbian." I'd say in the context of the OP's post, that's what we're talking about. Dating (say) the starting quarterback at Temple University's football team wouldn't lead the OP's niece to ask for "acceptance," unless the OP was a Princeton fan or something similar.
Dating an actual bird seems a touch far-fetched, OP, but if your niece is sticking to that story... our article Alex_(parrot) tells the story of an African Grey parrot named Alex who (according to animal psychologist Irene Pepperberg) had the intellectual capacity of a human two year-old. Dr. Pepperberg wrote a touching article about Alex, describing her profound grief over his premature death (at the age of 31 - African Greys can live to be sixty) and, apart from his remarkable level of cognitive development, his endearing personality - they'd worked together for thirty years.
So a dating relationship with an actual owl, while outré, isn't entirely out of the question. loupgarous (talk) 18:18, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
"There was a young lady from Exeter..." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:41, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Still another meaning for "owl" is a simply person who keeps late hours, as opposed to a "lark", who keeps early hours. -- (talk) 01:02, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

List of birds displaying homosexual behavior might be useful. That powerful owl sure seems proud. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:02, October 7, 2015 (UTC)
She could be dating a Sheffield Wednesday fan.--Ykraps (talk) 21:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

October 7[edit]

what is the reason why the coins of Brazilian real looks the same like the Euro Coins?[edit]

the brazilian coins are only s bit bigger, but they look very identical--Hijodetenerife (talk) 00:43, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm not so sure they look "identical", but here are File:1 Real Brasil 2007.jpg and File:Common face of one euro coin.jpg. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:33, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
The only real similarity is size and the two-tone effect. I think this is more a case of 'convergent evolution'. There are perhaps 500 to 1000 different coin designs in circulation around the world - and there are only so many ways to have them look, so I'm sure you can find DOZENS of coins with broadly similar designs. For example, the UK two pound coin is also kinda similar to the Brazilian and Euro coins.
There are only a small range of sizes for coins that are large enough to handle conveniently but not so heavy that they weigh down pockets - so it's not too surprising that their sizes would be similar. Two-tone coins are a nice way to suggest higher value than single-color coins - and with the trend to eliminate paper money, it's inevitable that more countries will do that. There are Russian coins that have the gold color in the center and silver on the outside...but those are really the only two options - so it's kinda inevitable.
SteveBaker (talk) 05:16, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
They appear to be using the same font style for the number, which probably makes them superficially more similar than they really are. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
All the machines, tooling and designs are now done by just very few companies. EG. Schuler. They do everything right down to the design. The previous traditional look of the original coins of any particular sovereign state has thus, vanished into oblivion. Look at all those countries that still have their banknotes printed by De La Rue. They all look like they came out of the same stable (typographically) – because did! So as with modern coinage. Also, two-tone coins were introduced to make counterfeiting more difficult. In the days before cheap steel was used to increase a state's Seigniorage it was not realy profitable to counterfeit coins with alloys that gave the same weight for their size. I haven't seen a modern US Quarter for some years now but they had a two-tone milled edge for the same reason. --Aspro (talk) 13:20, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
  • The US coins that were formerly silver are now (since 1964) made of a sandwich whose middle layer is copper. I don't think the two-tone effect was a desideratum. —Tamfang (talk) 00:00, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Wait a minute, you are only discuss about the 1 Real coin and the 1 Euro coin, I wanted to say, that the 1 cent, 2 cent, 5 cent also look identical to 1 centimo 2 centimo 5 centimo coins and the picuture with the 1 euro is really bad made, the 1 euro coin has a more Gold-Silver color and not like on this picture yellow-white. Use better google pictures to compare them--Hijodetenerife (talk) 20:14, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

According to this page, the first coins actually minted in Brazil were struck in 1994, so it's plausible that they either had help from a European mint or that the dies were actually made in Europe. An example of this is that the Royal Mint in the UK still mints coins for less developed Commonwealth countries and before WWII, made the dies for the mints in Canada and Australia. However, we wisely steered clear of those funny Euro things, so it wasn't us in this case. Alansplodge (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

October 8[edit]

Operating washing machine at high altitude[edit]

Typically, a washing machine's highest temperature setting is at 90C/95C/200F (in my experience, that is - may differ from country to country). Just below boiling point, in other words, which makes sense. It occurred to me just now, though, that that'd already be above boiling point at higher elevations, due to the air pressure dependence - I'm too lazy to research it in detail now, but unless my memory deceives me, it drops to somewhere in the 70s C atop very high mountains, so such a scenario isn't even all that far-fetched.

So, if one were to use a typical modern washing machine at that hot setting someplace high-up, what happens? Does the water get heated to a correspondingly lower just-below-boiling temperature, or to the nominal temperature, and in the latter case, what would be the physical effects? I'm guessing this depends in large part on the operation of the kinds of heating mechanisms used in such devices? Any insights?

- (talk) 14:08, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I've only seen washing machines that reach those temperatures in Europe, where consumer markets tend to be well regulated. I have not seen those machines here in the United States, where interstate commerce is unrestricted and there are populations living above 1800 meters, where the boiling point falls below 95C. If they are sold here, I would think they would have to be printed with warnings about use above that altitude. I would think that a country would not allow the import of machines with such high temperatures unless 1) all inhabited parts of the country are at a low altitude, or 2) consumer markets are well enough regulated to prevent the sale of such machines above a certain altitude without mechanical/electronic adjustment or at least a warning printed on the equipment about use above that altitude. I doubt that these machines are equipped with altitude sensors. Allowing the water in the washing vessel to boil would be dangerous because it would create a risk of hot liquid escaping and injuring a person. With repeated use, the steam produced could also cause water damage to surrounding structures. Marco polo (talk) 15:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Can I assume you are talking about dishwashers? "Washing machine" in the US usually refers to a clothes washer, and they smply run off the home hot-water line. Whatever you are referring to, I assume it is not a clothes washer. μηδείς (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
No, most washing machines for clothing have heating elements and regulate the temperature. Some also have an option of utilising an existing hot water supply to safe electricity, but will still use internal heating elements to reach the desired temperature. Normal settings for European style machines are 30/40/60/90 ℃, although modern machines tend to support even lower and sometimes in-between temperatures. Using only the building warm water supply is very rare, and I think essentially unheard of in Europe. Most domestic warm-water supplies don't provide more than 50 ℃, if that. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:52, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
For that matter, dishwashers commonly have internal heating elements also—at least, all the ones I've owned have had them, but none of those reached a temperature near 90℃.
This chart shows that the boiling point passes 90℃ at about 10,000 feet or 3,000 m elevation. In the US, the city of Leadville is about that high, and in countries like Nepal and Bolivia there must be considerable numbers of people living at such altitudes. However, whether washing machines capable of high temperature are sold in these places is another matter. -- (talk) 17:03, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Well, that's odd, in the US I have never used a clothes washer in a house or a laundromat that had water too hot to put your hands in on the "hot" setting. I would imagine there are industrial models that approach boiling, and dishwashers seem to normally have an internal heating unit. μηδείς (talk) 18:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
It suggests about 1524m for 95℃. Based on that and List of highest towns by country, it would at least be a potential problem in France, Italy, Switzerland, Armenia, Austria, Andorra, Spain, Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan for such machines. Nil Einne (talk) 17:43, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I also found [6] which is a 95 degrees C machine apparently sold in Sri Lanka. (The language used makes me thing it's not simply something appearing on all LG sites. Also [7].) I'm also thinking it is or was sold in India [8], another place where it could easily have problems. On the other hands, if the description isn't misleading, the washing machine is designed to deal with steam in at least some cases, although probably not when used for a normal clothes wash. On the other hand, it seems likely this machine is or was sold for the relatively high end of the market, and I'm not sure how likely they are to be used in places where it may be a problem in Sri Lanka. Possibly for India too. Nil Einne (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
(EC) Do (front loader which I believe are the norm in much of Europe) washing machines in Europe even have hot water inlets? Most front loaders in NZ don't, and [9] seems to suggest it's the same in the UK. The reason AFAIK (also supported by that source) is similar as for dishwashers, most use so little water that unless you have very well insulated pipes (and probably even then) it's quite ineffective to use supplied hot water as you're mostly taking cooled down water from the pipes. Perhaps if your hot water supply is every cheap (e.g. solar, or very occasionally I guess heatpump or non-eletric) but these cases are considered rare enough most manufacturers don't bother. Top loading machines here still seem to often still have dual connection, occasionally with internal heating as well. Nil Einne (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
This datasheet from Toshiba does indeed specify a maximum altitude of 1000 meters AMSL (in the microscopic print at the bottom of the page). Tevildo (talk) 17:18, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
At least Toshiba recommending Windows 8.1 is in bigger print Nil Einne (talk) 17:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Personal bank a/c details[edit]

I’m 'planning only' to create a website in the near future and or insert my personal bank a/c details in any website(s) - only ‘how to send money in the a/c’ information of the country I’m living in so that I could receive money from any other country, including the country I’m living – probably without opening up a company, be it for charity/whatever; I definitely need donations. I would like to know the risk factors associated with this methodology. If this post fall under the ‘legal advice’, then please assist me with a ‘list of risk factors’; would be sufficient in order for me to grasp/analyse. Regards. -- Space Ghost (talk) 18:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Electronic_funds_transfer has information several different ways that money can be transferred. But I don't know what you mean by a/c. Here in the USA that usually means air conditioning. ac also doesn't have anything that looks relevant to money transfer.
Paypal claims to work in 190 countries [10], so there's a good chance it might work for you. I don't know if they can work internationally, but you might look into Patreon or crowdfunding more generally.
If you care to share what country you are located in (or your bank is located in), we might be able to give you better references and information on transferring money to that country from other countries. (N.B. I do not think this is a request for legal advice. This is a request for information about mechanisms of transferring funds. It can be answered and referenced without giving any legal or professional advice. If anyone tries to provide legal advice here, I may remove it.) SemanticMantis (talk) 18:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
a/c simple means account, see wiktionary:a/c. Nil Einne (talk) 18:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
D'oh! Thanks. I don't think direct bank transfers are usually recommended for this kind of thing, but I don't have time right now to look for further refs. OP may well find a useful and functional alternative among the links above. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)