Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 November 14

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November 14[edit]

A Corporate question[edit]

I went into a Corporation (LLC) with my brother and my husband . I am the President my Husband is Vice President and my brother is Secretary. We bought a property. A triplex. Two, three bedroom apartments,and one effeincy. He just guided us through settlement since we had to get a second mortgage on our house, and found the property. He got 50 % of the stock and my husband and I got 25% each , (50% together ).We have spent over $70,000 in renovations to the property of our own money, My husband and I. We also both work there renovating. My brother moved into the upstairs apartment which was compleated first. The bottom is still under renovation almost finished. He hasn't paid any mortgage moneys in three months,refuses to move into the efficeny,(so we can get moneys for the mortgage that is in my husband and my name)He is alone, no family. We have paid all the renovating costs and now must be burdened with the mortgages on both our home and the rental property. My question is ,If I call A Shareholders meeting, and we vote on his moving to the effeincy, so we can get rent for the three bedroom and pay the mortgage, We call a motion to move him, my husband seconds it, and my brother refuses, what will be my next step? We live in the state of New Jersey, United States of America

Contact a lawyer.  --LambiamTalk 00:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
If the dispute can't be resolved among you, you would wind up having to bring a court proceeding against him, either in landlord-tenant court or in Superior Court. I can imagine a variety of legal theories that could be used, but Lambiam is right - this isn't the sort of situation that calls for legal advice over the Internet - the corporation will have to hire a lawyer to deal with this. Newyorkbrad 00:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Please sign your questions with four tildes. The reference desk cannot give legal advice. State law varies and your situation is complicated because of the ownership of the property in question. Contact a lawyer who has experience with these issues. You might ask the manager of an apartment building or complex who they use. Good luck. -THB 00:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
New Jersey? Can't you get him rubbed out? Vespine 01:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Please help me understand American terminology. What is an "effeincy", or "efficeny"? JackofOz 01:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
An efficiency or studio apartment is one that does not have a separate bedroom from the living room (lounge). Sometimes the kitchen is along one wall or in a closet, so there is no separate kitchen either. If it has a large alcove that can be walled off to make a small bedroom, they call it a "junior four" in New York City. (Four refers to four rooms-bath, kitchen, living, bedroom.) A "classic four" is a true one bedroom. A "classic six" has two bedrooms, a bathroom, kitchen, living room and dining room. -THB 02:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Yep. See apartment for more. ("efficiency" is a disambiguation page but leads to "a one-room apartment" as one of the meanings) Y'know, this isn't a bad encyclopedia, sometimes. Newyorkbrad 02:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. We still use the UK word "bed-sit" (presumably short for bedroom-cum-sitting room). JackofOz 02:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
According to the Bedsit article, a bedsit does not have a full kitchen and shares a bathroom with other apartments. In the U.S., that's an SRO (single room occupancy), more like a monthly hotel for poor people. Here in NYC the government usually pays the rent for SROs to house homeless people. You probably can't buy a decent studio in Manhattan for less thatn $300,000 so poor is a relative term. -THB 02:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
With the shares split 50/50, a shareholders meeting would be useless. However don't despair, there are a variety of alternate remedies available to you. All you need is a decent lawyer who understands the basics, and s/he'll be able to figure it out for you. Without going into detail, I'll just assure you that according to law you've been "wronged", and even a mediocre lawyer should be able to figure out the proper way to deal with the situation. Loomis 03:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I've been thinking about this some more. It takes forever to evict someone in NY and in NJ as well. Your best bet is to convince your brother to move out voluntarily. And don't do business with family members again. (Or buy a car from them, either.) -THB 09:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
That's true, and the law may be different in my jurisdiction (Quebec), but exception is made where the landlord is evicting a tenant in favour of him/herself (or a family member) taking occupancy personally. Of course your "tenant" is a "landlord" as well, AND a family member, so I'm not sure even in my jurisdiction which way the law would point. In any case, I still think you have a valid legal cause of action (perhaps in unjust enrichment?) to be successful in getting things straightened out in your favour. Still, see a lawyer. Loomis 13:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The next step is to bring an action for oppressive or unfair conduct on the basis that the conduct of the company's affairs is contrary to the interests of its members as a whole. Your brother is a bum. You will win. Get a lawyer. Personally, get a lawyer. Someone above said "the corporation" needs a lawyer. Uh no. She needs a lawyer. The corporation is indirectly the target of the claim: the brother is refusing to use his share in the company to benefit the members as a whole and therefore the application is to remedy this. There are many remedies. Basically, you are trying to establish a FRAUD ON THE MINORITY. If you can establish this then you are entitled to bring the action as a member and get a remedy. I study Australian law not American but it looks like you will win if everything you are saying is the truth and there are no other material factors. - sincerely, some random australian guy

Han Dynasty envoy??[edit]


I would like to know which western Han Dynasty envoy (206BC-AD9) is credited with making first contact with the kingdom's of the Tarim Basin, would it be BAN CHAO??

Thank you for the time taken to help me with this question

Have a great dey Pierre

Hello, Pierre. First and foremost Ban Chao was soldier rather than a diplomat or envoy. It was he who took control of the Tarim Basin, though this is not to say that he was the first important officer of the Han Dynasty to visit the area, or make contact with the local chieftains. Clio the Muse 06:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I guess this also answers the classic koan, "What is the sound of one Han clapping?" Clarityfiend 07:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Maybe Zhang Qian? —Charles P._(Mirv) 17:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

"obverse/reverse" in laymen's terms?[edit]

My query is on the Numismatic terminology Talk page: I need suitable terms for "obverse" and "reverse" for describing medals and coins on display in a museum exhibit. The exhibit captions will be viewed by visitors, non-native speakers of English among them, to whom these proper terms would be unfamiliar. -- Thanks, Deborahjay 08:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Front and back. -THB 08:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
In the US, Canada, and the UK, the obverse of a coin is commonly called the "heads" side and the reverse is the "tails" side. But in a museum exhibit, I would be surprised not to see "obverse" and "reverse". --Anonymous, 09:15 UTC, Nov. 14.
I've certainly heard and used "heads/tails" for coins (e.g. " flip"), but not medals... Deborahjay 09:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Front and back are surely more universal than heads and tails, plus those are still pretty much slang, and only used when flipping, but not appropriate for a museum exhibit. -THB 09:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I would say that if a museum were to use any terms other than obverse/reverse (which I'd actually prefer if viewing the exhibit myself), front and back would be best with top/bottom being third. Dismas|(talk) 10:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

The museum is in Israel, where English serves as a lingua franca -- prompting my reluctance to use terms that may be obscure to non-native speakers. Frankly, prior to this translation assignment, I myself didn't know the word obverse! -- Deborahjay 11:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Why wouldn't French be the lingua franca?Edison 14:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Because it should be Low Frankish.  --LambiamTalk 15:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
What about saying obverse and reverse, and explaining what the terms mean by saying front and back? | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 13:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Likely only 10% of the people would read the explanation, half of them would forget it, so 95% wouldn't know and 90% of those couldn't figure it out, so 85.5% would ask what the terms meant. -THB 16:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Some people say that 64.8% of statistics are made up by 37.4% of the population 76.9% of the time - but I don't believe them. JackofOz 04:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Did you just make that up, Jack? ;-) | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 19:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Making it up as I go along has worked for me all my life, so why stop now.  :) JackofOz 00:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
<aussie accent>Goud oun you muate!</aussie accent> :-) | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 13:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Stalin quotation :ru:en:[edit]

Moved to Language

band with no original members[edit]

I'm searching the answer to the following question: which band had already no original members, when releasing the first album? that means that no original member of the band participated in the creation of the first album, they all left before the releasing, but the name of the band stayed the same. i would appreciate any help thank you in advance kat

From what i can remember I think the Borodin Quartet played in Sydney lately without any original members. Jpe|ob 10:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
This question seems awfully familiar...have you tried searching the archives? --WikiSlasher 10:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
You may find this useful: List of bands with no consistent members. --WikiSlasher 10:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Turns out you already asked the question over a month ago but no-one responded. Sorry 'bout that. --WikiSlasher 10:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

thank u for help, i checked the list but could'nt find any band of those characteristics.

Not quite what you asked for, but the second side of Napalm Death's first LP 'Scum' features none of the original members of the band (the first side was was recorded earlier). Cheers, Sam Clark 16:17, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Milli Vanilli's album was recorded and being mixed when the two guys who became "the band" were chosen. To my knowledge, none of the performers in the original band toured with the two guys. While that is an extreme case, replacing studio people for a new band is not out of the question. It happened a great deal in the 50's and 60's. For example, Motown records would get a group together and get a hit song (just one). Then, they'd get 4-5 groups with a hit song each and send them out on tour. Commonly, the people in those groups were also the talent behind recordings for other groups and needed to be replaced so another act could go on tour. --Kainaw (talk) 17:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
United States Marine Band had no original members when it released its first album. A number of community bands can make the same claim, and most high school and college bands.Edison 18:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

another clue about the band I'm searching for is that the singer is married to the bassist' sister --Katerini 12:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

no! the bassist is married to the sister of the singer.. --Katerini 13:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

are you just asking this for fun? I mean, do you already know the answer?

Is it Steak?<Xiaden's Homepage> 19:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

my boyfriend asked me this question and gave me the clue. i just had to find out. but i couldn't find it and yesterday he told me the answer. it's judas priest. thank you for helping --Katerini 10:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


what is the changes in the promotion level and mix in the different stages of the product life cycle? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

See Product life cycle management as a starting-place. Cheers, Sam Clark 15:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
(oops, edit conflict) Try Product life cycle management and Marketing mix, I'm not sure exactly what your question is. -THB 16:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
What it is is an essay question. I can't understand why these questioners don't bother to even try to disguise clear homework questions as actual questions of interest, or, otherwise, at least honestly admit that their question is indeed some form of homework, and that they're honestly asking for a few tips and guidance as to how to get started. It's so easy! Rather than copy the essay question verbatim, had the questioner at least showed some simple respect for our intelligence, and showed us that s/he does have at least a grasp of the question, let alone the answer, I'd be much more willing to be of some help. For example: "I'm taking a marketing class and I've been given an assignment regarding the relationship between a product's stage in its life-cycle, and the level of capital invested in its promotion, as well as how the choice of the appropriate mix of promotional media evolves along that life-cycle. Any help or guidance would be geatly appreciated. Thanks! :)" :--( Loomis 18:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'll write essays at a discounted rate of $50/hr because I can do it at home. -THB 18:38, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
However, were this 30 years ago, and you were then in the "plagiarism services" business, you wouldn't have wiki, or the internet for that matter to make your services known to such a wide audience. Therefore, your promotional budget at that particular stage in the lifecycle of the "plagiarism services" industry would necessarily be a lot greater, and the "promotion mix" would definitely be quite different. (Perhaps costly print ads or radio/television adverstising spots, rather than a free quote on wiki). Obviously a joke, I wouldn't want anyone to think that I assumed THB was serious. :--)

How would you like women's nipples to be?[edit]

I was said recently that some African women have nipples whose size would be more than 1 inch in diameter. Is it true? Is bigger the better in the case of nipples? Is it the sexiest thing to have a 1 inch nipple? Will nipples too enlarge in size while sex? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

You must be confusing the nipple with the areola. I can't possibly imagine a human being having a nipple of that size. For starters, breastfeeding infants would be an impossibility. You must have been misinformed. Loomis 18:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
""Sexiest" is subjective, so whatever size nipple/aereola you like best are the sexiest. Ditto what Loomis said. See erectile tissue and breast engorgement for info regarding nipples enlarging during sexual intercourse. -THB 18:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Language richness[edit]

I've often heard people describe languages in terms of their overall richness. For example, English was not considered a rich language until Shakespeare elevated it with his innovative and poetic writing. We didn't have an English translation of the Bible until his time, apparently because it was considered a poor language, but then people agreed it had improved, and was suitable for rendering the word of God. Has anyone (philosopher, linguist, historian, poet or scientist) investigated what it really means for a language (rather than the particular use of it) to be "rich" or "elevated"? What determines such qualities? The Mad Echidna 19:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Your question makes two false assumptions. Beowulf predates Shakespeare and is written in a very poetic form of early English. Passages of the Bible were translated into English as the demand increased. Initially, French translations were used to translate into English, then better Latin/Greek texts were used. Shakespeare's influence on the language had nothing to do with the demand for English Bibles. --Kainaw (talk) 19:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict...) The first modern English bible was William Tyndale's translation, published in 1523 (see Early Modern English Bible translations). Shakespeare was born in 1564, and produced most of his work between 1586 and 1616. The reasons for the rise of vernacular bibles (in English and other languages) were complex, but probably not much to do with 'people agree[ing] that [English] had improved, and was suitable for rendering the word of God'. Protestantism probably had something to do with it. But in answer to your question, I don't know whether anyone has tried to give a precise sense to 'richness' of language. Cheers, Sam Clark 19:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
One objective measure of richness is the size of the vocabulary. Estimates put the number of English words (excluding esoteric, technical stuff) at around 500,000. Compare this to German (185,000) and French (less than 100,000). These numbers came from the PBS companion book for "The Story of English". Clarityfiend 22:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I think "richness" is a term open for interpretation, so is "elevated." Different kinds of languages conjure up different images to the minds of people, even when referring to more or less, the same word or object. Even a language with a limited vocabulary could produce rich meanings if employed in the right manner. The Weltanschauung of a people could explain these linguistic differences. I think the more appropriate term for the "richness" of a language is its "specialization." More specialized languages are able to express more varied and abstract ideas. Moonwalkerwiz 23:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I am puzzled by the contention that English was not considered a 'rich language' prior to Shakespeare. On whose assessment, may I ask? There were no vernacular translations of the Bible before the Reformation for the simple reason that such translations were considered heretical, as you will discover if you read the link on William Tyndale. Shakespeare certainly added to the overall richness of English, but it was still a vibrant and poetic language well before his time. I suggest that if anyone doubts this that they dip into the work of Geoffery Chaucer, the Canterbury Tales in particular, or William Langland. Clio the Muse 23:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
English has 5x more words than French? I didn't know that. I doubt that's what gives a language it's richness however, grammer may have something to do with it. Remember that words can mean different things with different sentences. Portuguese, German, and Latin have complicated grammer. Wouldn't this be better on the Language reference desk? | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 12:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Having more words means it's easier to convey nuances, e.g. subtle, intellectual words derived from Latin vs. direct, vigorous ones with Germanic roots. Winston Churchill made a point of using the latter in his speeches. Clarityfiend 17:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

meat processing regulations[edit]

Who is responsible (if anyone)for regulating cleanliness, waste disposal and pollution issues in meat processing premises in England? Do premises have to be checked on a regular basis or just if there are complaints? If they are not doing their job properly, is there an ombudsman? Thanks in advance for any info --Vonspritz

The Food Standards Agency(FSA).This is their site[1]. I'm more an FDA guy myself, so I don't know what they're policies are. I'd be reading the same site as you to find out.--Mabris 22:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

romans and cyclical time[edit]

I've read that the Greeks had a cyclical view of history, believing that its forms and patterns repeated over time, whereas the Romans were the first (major?) civilisation to believe that history was essentially progressive. I took this on faith (I believe from The Complete Idiots' Guide to the Roman Empire) until I read the following passage from Marcus Aurelius' Meditations: "...all the cycles of creation since the beginning of time exhibit the same recurring pattern, so that it can make no difference whether you watch the identical spectacle for a hundred years, or for two hundred, or for ever." Did the Stoics believe in this view generally, or am I taking it out of context? Did other Romans share this view? The Mad Echidna 21:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the Stoics held a cyclical view of time & history (followers of Heraclitus in this). The world began in fire and will end in fire, to be reborn again. Skarioffszky 22:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I realise that the thrust of your question was about the Romans, not the Greeks. However, it should be pointed out that the term "the Greeks" appears to assume that all Greeks had the same opinion, which is a false notion. Homer and Hesiod propound a directional view of History. It is that things are going downhill. B00P 08:49, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

roman games[edit]

could you please help me with the following

How did the ancient writers react to the roman games? How would you explain their different attitudes? writers in particular-Martial, Seneca, Apuleius, Pliny the younger, Suetonius, Cicero, Statius and St Augustine

Many thanks petramelville

Is this a homework question? Do a little basic resarch here first and then come back with more specific questions. The Reference Desk cannot write essays for you. -THB 22:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Cicero didn't think much of them: "If it was ill health that kept you from the games, I congratulate you on your good fortune. But if it was your dislike for such diversions that detained you, I rejoice doubly: that you are well, and that you are sane enough in mind to scorn the silly admirations of the people. (...) Why should I suppose that you missed the athletic games when I know that you scorn gladiators? In these performances even Pompey acknowledges that he wasted his money and his pains. The final event consisted of hunting shows, two of them, continuing through five days, magnificent to be sure; but what pleasure can a gentleman take in seeing a puny man torn to pieces by a monstrous beast or a beautiful animal pierced by a spear?" [2]
Skarioffszky 23:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Homework question? It looks more like a sketch for a possible PhD thesis! I do not want to discourage you, but this is a big topic, I and I do not think that you are going to find simple answers anywhere on Wikipedia: even the individual articles on the authors in question will probably not be a great deal of use to you. You will really need to look out some books on the subject in a good library. However, to help you along, I will give you one small clue about one of the authors on your list. Prior to his conversion to Christianity, St Augustine of Hippo was an enthusiastic participant in all of the Roman vices. Have a look at the Confessions, where he describes his love of blood sports. Clio the Muse 00:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course it's a Homework question, it's Essay 3 on the Open Univesities Introduction to the Humanities course.