Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 August 28

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August 28[edit]

Newfoundland Breed Pull Strength[edit]

About how much weight can a fully grown Newfoundland(dog) pull? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

That would depend greatly on the surface that the weight was being pulled across and the method used such as with a sled or a wheeled vehicle. Could you be more specific? This link provides some historical references to work that they have done which may give you an idea as to the weight that the average Newfie could pull. I don't know if you'll be able to find an exact or even approximate figure. Dismas|(talk) 09:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Pornography Industry[edit]

When was the Native American midget pornography industry created? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:39, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

You know what they say, Native American midget pornography is the world's oldest profession. (I hope you weren't looking for serious responses...) Plasticup T/C 02:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The start of your quest is you need to look at is when midget porn started. (Gidget the Midget?) Amazon's got porn history books. -- Guroadrunner 09:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


What is a gradian? And is metre the same as meter but with a weird pronunciation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:51, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

"Metre" is just the British spelling of "meter" in certain senses: specifically, the "metre" of a piece of poetry or the "metre" that equals 100 "centimetres". It is pronounced the same as "meter".
"Gradian" is another name for the grad, a unit of angle measure equal to 0.9 degree.
--Anonymous, August 28, 2007, 01:15 (UTC).
There's another sense of the word "meter" - a device for measuring certain kinds of things, eg. electricity usage. This is always spelled "meter", never "metre". -- JackofOz 03:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
An easier way to think of the grad is as a kind of decimal angle measure where 100 grad is a right angle. This sounds like a good idea until you start to use it in practice. The angles of 30 and 60 degrees come about so often in common usage that having them be recurring decimals (as they are in grads) is a major inconvenience. Incidentally - the reason that most scientists use 'Celsius' for temperature units instead of 'Centigrade' is that a 'centigrad' is 1/100th of a grad - which could be exceedingly confusing!
Also, it's not just the British who spell it metre with an 're' (also litre, etc) - the French (who invented it) spell it that way too. The SI system of units uses the 're' version - the American spelling ('meter') is the odd one out - although I see a lot of British people spelling it the American way (I certainly do). SteveBaker 12:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Steve gives the right reason for the wrong fact. The use of the term "degree Celsius" is part of the SI standard (although I think he's right that the confusion with "centigrad" was given as a reason why it was adopted). But the standard does not specify the spelling of units in different languages; it only specifies their symbols (like "m" for the meter). "Meter" is not spelled "metre" in French; it is "mètre". In German it is "Meter"; in the Scandinavian languages and Dutch it is "meter"; in Hungarian, "méter"; in Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, "metro"; in Finnish, "metri"; in Russian the Cyrillic equivalent of "metr"; and so on, as you can confirm in the "other languages" section of the metre page. There may be others that spell it "metre", but I don't know of any. --Anonymous, August 28, 2007, 14:59 (UTC), confusing typo removed later.

Smelly Shoes[edit]

How do I keep my shoes from smelling? I have clean feet, but for some reason my shoes smell!! And I feel like powders and spray just keep making it worse! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Feet and shoes aren't supposed to smell good. Its really not a big deal if your shoes smell, but if you don't wear socks, wear them. It would probably help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Railfan242 (talkcontribs) 03:18, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

I question the statement that feet aren't supposed to smell good. Surely it depends on what they've come into contact with. If one spends one's days walking barefoot on rose petals - as most of us in the civilised world surely do - they'd be just dandy. -- JackofOz 03:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I also question that statement. Confining feet in shoes which hold in moisture and heat is what allows bacteria to grow that make both the feet and shoes smell bad. Take those shoes off whenever possible (say under the table at a meeting or under your desk at work), don't wear shoes at all when home, and try to get shoes that "breathe". They now make "airator" shoes for kids, with an air pump actuated by walking, I hope they come up with something similar for adults soon. If you can't take shoes off completely, loosening the laces and possibly slipping them part way off can help a lot. StuRat 03:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The whole reason that feet smell is because of shoes! If you never wore shoes, your foot wouldn't smell any worse then your arm. Wearing shoes makes feet sweat, and as StuRat said, allows bacteria to grow. Grango242 03:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Foot odor discusses this. I buy cheap insoles and replace them regularly. Occasionally I throw my trainers in the washing machine.--Shantavira|feed me 07:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Wear sandals - problem solved. They are a good compromise between bare feet (as nature intended) and having some protection against stepping on pointy stuff! Wear socks when the weather is cooler. SteveBaker 12:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
People write in to the doctor's column in the paper saying that antiperspirant on the feet works. Not just deoderant, antiperspirant. Haven't tried it myself. Gzuckier 16:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, wearing sandals doesn't always get rid of foot odor. The odor is not as strong as it would be if you were wearing shoes, but there is still a stench.Grango242 16:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Steam Trains[edit]

What are some good steam tourist railroads in the Northeastern United States? I'm looking for railroads in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, and Delaware. Grango242 03:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

As no one else has come forward, I can you only suggest you browse our list of heritage railways and follow links.--Shantavira|feed me 12:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

1. Buy a ticket for the New Jersey Transit. 2. Buy a hot plate and a kettle. 3. Fill the kettle with water. 4. Get on the train, use the hot plate to heat the kettle.

Viola! A steam railroad in the Northeastern United States. --M@rēino 13:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

A few that I can think of:
Atlant 15:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Strasburg Rail Road. For added fun, make it an overnight trip and stay in an actual caboose. --LarryMac | Talk 14:22, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, the Essex Steam Train in Essex, Connecticut. --LarryMac | Talk 14:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I think there's an echo in here. ;-)
Atlant 17:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
oops. I got distracted by the thought of getting "Day Out With Thomas" tickets for my nephew. --LarryMac | Talk 18:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah the Strasburg Railroad is definetly the best. Go in the summer whenn they've got 2 steam trains running.Domster22 18:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Lunar Eclipse[edit]

When will the lunar eclipse begin in Melbourne time? -- 07:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Approx. 6.51pm. See here. --jjron 07:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Its going on NOW!!!! Can someone report this ?! 09:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I know this is no forum. Just came in from outdoors. The moon is 1/2 covered in the Earth's shadow. 09:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Zzzzzz. See 28 August 2007 lunar eclipse, which will probably turn into something like 3 March 2007 lunar eclipse if anyone's taking photos of it. We do not need a ball by ball account, thanks, The moon is 1/2 covered in the Earth's shadow. Uh-huh. That'd be an eclipse, then. --Tagishsimon (talk)

H.M. Queen Beatrix Of The Netherlands[edit]

Where was H.M. Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands born? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:29, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget to try using a search engine eg for the search "Queen Beatrix Of The Netherlands born" gives or etc
from the hello! link : quote "Born on January 31, 1938, at the Soestdijk Palace in Baarn, Beatrix Wilhelmina Armgard was just two years old when her family fled to England" 08:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Just two when her family fled to England ? She must have had a bad case of "the terrible twos", if they went that far to get away from her :-) StuRat 11:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

African Oil refineries[edit]

How do i best find the working condition ( Preferably as a percentage of the nameplate capacities) of african Oil refineries? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naya c (talkcontribs) 10:20, August 28, 2007 (UTC)


Under Capitation and Federal Taxation it says: In Pollock the Court held that income taxes on income from property, such as rent income, interest income, and dividend income (but not income taxes on income from wages, employment, etc.) were to be treated as direct taxes. Because the statute in question had not apportioned income taxes on income from property by population, the statute was ruled unconstitutional.

Finally, ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1913 made possible modern income taxes, by removing the requirement of apportionment with respect to income taxes.

These 2 statements dont have anything to do with income from wages. As it says above the pollock case had nothing to do with income from wages, and employment. So how can the sixteenth amendment make it so that the government can tax wages and employment, if all it was meant to do was to overturn the pollock case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:50, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

The situation appears to be clarified at our Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution article. The answer to your question appears to be a combination of legal interpretation and political mood. — Lomn 13:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
There's also Tax protester constitutional arguments which may be of interest. --Tagishsimon (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tagishsimon (talkcontribs) 13:07, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

The simple answer is that the 16th Amendment makes it so that the federal goverment can tax incomes because it says "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes...". --Anonymous, August 27, 2007, 15:03 (UTC).

Apollo Moon Landing[edit]

Is it true that at the time of the Apollo Moon Landing the moon was facing Australia but when the astronauts looked at the Earth the film showed America? -- 13:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe you're referring to a version of the Parkes Observatory "controversy" about Apollo 11? The article doesn't address your version of the controversy, but the simple answer is that no, nothing like what you describe happened during any of the six Apollo missions to land on the moon. --M@rēino 13:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't tell what the poster is describing. "The film showed America"? What film? --Anonymous, August 28, 2007, 15:12 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)
...also, the Apollo 11 Lunar Module was on the Moon's surface for nearly 22 hours (see this mission timeline), during which time the Earth rotated through almost a complete revolution - so the Moon was "facing" most of the Earth's surface at some time or other during the landing. Gandalf61 15:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

What film are you talking about? I don't know of any film that specifically shows America.Grango242 16:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Presumably he's conflating video footage of the moon landing and Armstrong's initial descent with (separate) video footage showing the Earth from the moon. The two are not one and the same (and there are lots of video/photo materials of the Earth from the moon and its vicinity, taken over the course of years). — Lomn 17:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
It's a peculiar claim - from the point of view of someone standing on the Moon, the Earth rotates once every 24 hours (roughly) - so you can't say that the moon was facing a particular point on the Earth's surface throughout the mission. So I'm betting that there is simply some confusion as to precisely when during the mission that photo was taken - and when during the mission that Australia and America were visible from the Moon. Since you can see an entire hemisphere of the Earth at one time, there will be times when both Australia and America were in view at the same time. People who claim that these kinds of things are 'anomalies' and that therefore the moon landings were all faked have been completely and carefully debunked many times over - it's really not worth the effort to do that over again. SteveBaker 23:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Ornithology Question[edit]

If Toucan Sam and Sonny the Cuckoo Bird got in a fight, who would win? XM 13:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The reference desk is not a place for debates or forum discussion. Leebo T/C 14:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Cuckoos are carnivorous and occassionally eat other birds. No contest. --M@rēino 14:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
One thing is for sure: If they got in a fight, XM would unjustly receive a ticket that he can't afford and therefore shouldn't have to pay. Donald Hosek 17:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Ooooh! Wait! I know this one!'s Ninjas. (or maybe Pirates)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talkcontribs) 17:54, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

World Service[edit]

Is there no watershed on the BBC WorldService? Cos its just past 3.30 and i heard an author read out the 'F-word' from his book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naya c (talkcontribs) 14:37, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, the watershed applies only to television. (How many kids listen the World Service?) In any case, again as far as I am aware, the BBC World Service broadcasts in different countries simultaneously, so any watershed would be pointless. Please use the "ask a new question" link at the top of this page when asking a new question.--Shantavira|feed me 15:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Doktor Paul Joseph Goebbels[edit]

What is this image on his sleeve? Is there a wikiPage on it? [image found here- ] Thanks Specialagent777 21:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Just a guess -- it might be an alternate form of the Thule Society logo.--M@rēino 17:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Looks like someone crudely photoshopped it over his swastika. Marco polo 17:52, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes - they did (it's pretty obvious because they did a crappy job of it) - here is an unmolested version of the original photo. It looks to me like this page is the original source of the messed up image. Notice that the same logo appears in the flag and logo at the top of the page. My German is non-existant but from what I can tell using Altavista/Babelfish, ("The combat federation of German socialists is a party - and organization-independent union on the basis of the confession to people and homeland.") this is likely to be some kind of Neo-Nazi organisation who is trying to claim an older heritage than they really have...but I'll happily defer to anyone who can read german and get us the correct answer. SteveBaker 17:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
From further nosing around on the web, I see that Thomas Brehl seems to be involved in this group - our article about him makes it clear that this is a Neo-Nazi group by the name of "Kampfbund Deutscher Sozialisten" (Fighting Federation of German Socialists or KDS). The image on the sleeve is their logo. The group was formed in 1999 - so we know that your photo has definitely been tampered with. SteveBaker 19:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The group is not even a party. More a club or association. These guys are absolutely unknown in Germany and I cant believe this weird mixture of Nazi and Communists attracts neither side. The reason they photopped their symbol could just be the law against showing it de:Verwenden von Kennzeichen verfassungswidriger Organisationen--Tresckow 10:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

They can't be that unknown - the German Wikipedia has a fairly substantial article about them: de:Kampfbund Deutscher Sozialisten which at least a dozen people have contributed to and which is linked to by a dozen other articles. But yes - it's likely that the KDS photoshopped out the swastika because public display of the symbol is illegal in Germany. However, the fact that they replaced it with their own symbol is telling. I imagine most people wishing to display that photo would simply have blurred the symbol into oblivion and left it like that. Anyway, I think we've nailed this one for the OP. SteveBaker 11:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Windows and Paganism[edit]

Window Treatment Expert and/or Pagan Shape Meanings possible Saturnian in Nature

I'm sitting in the Beverly Hills Library Reading Room. I look at the window at the end of the room, reminds me of almost triptic church stain glass windows, although just normal windows. I'm thinking, I see this shape a lot. These 3 elongaged rectangulars with rounded top on center and smaller side panel forms. I made up a superpaint vers. and put on imageshack for question. [image here- ] What is the name of this style, is there a name for this exact form of window placements?

Also, I see these forms in Comic books, and I read an old Key to Solomon book with odd diagrams on possible spells or summons. I'm thinking summoning a memory locked in our subconscience maybe. I bring up Comics because the boxes are called windows, and in the sense they play on old paganistic ideals, that of course falls into opinion, but a true artists of any kind cannot deny pagan roots in art of all kind. Hence this maybe a question on what is art and what is pagan, but basically, does this same window frame have any link to exact saturn like stuffs? Sorry, I'm trying to connect stuff that maybe just coincedence, but isn't wikiquestioning just this? Possible rhetoric, but valid nontheless. Thank you. Specialagent777 21:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Canopus vanaf serapium.jpg
Villa adriana canopos.jpg
My architecure history professor called these hadriana windows, they have something to do with Hadrian. I am probably mispelling that because I can't find anything on google or wikipedia that uses that name. I think there were other (perhaps more common) names for that configuration also. I wouldn't be suprised if there is pagan symbolism. edit: I added some pics from commons of hadrian's villa. Also I found this picture but I don't know what it is -- Diletante 22:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I do know what it is a picture of, it is a ruin in Ephesus, the Temple of Hadrian. Also, I think that windows in the style you are describing are sometimes called Palladian windows. Crypticfirefly 04:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

"Law" page[edit]

I'm looking for a page (I was there before) where people have written clever things about Wikipedia. Rules or "laws"
eg. Example's 1st law: If you do something then something will happen
I'm pretty sure that it's one of Raul's subpages. It was quite funny. Could you answer on my talk page?--Pheonix15 18:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Raul654/Raul's laws. Jon513 18:32, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Looking for a Sound Effect[edit]

Hello, I'm trying to make a [computer] greeting card and I'm looking for that one sound effect people usually play to symbolize the character snapping back to reality. You know, it sounds like several sounds played together, like buzzing and mixing records. I was told it was on the movie Mean Girls, but I'm not sure since I've never seen it.

I'm also looking for a place to find free background music. Can you guys help me? --JDitto 21:38, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

If I know the sound you mean, usually it is just something like a cymbal being played in reverse, which leads to a fuzzy-lead in and then a quick WHACK before. Take a look at the varieties of reverse cymbals at the bottom of this page and see if it is what you are thinking of. -- 15:15, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I picture the sound also having an element of "needle being dragged off of a vinyl record". jeffjon 20:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Take some sounds, run them on backwards and speed them up progressively. That might make the sound effect you are looking for. Background music? for a bunch of stuff in the public domain. -- Guroadrunner 06:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Harvesting Walnuts[edit]

I have a voluteer walnut tree growing in my yard with a boutiful crop. The nuts are covered with a reatively smooth green husk. I would like to know if they are edible and how and when to harvest them.

Assuming that your tree is a black walnut, according to this source, from Minnesota, near the northern edge of the black walnut's range, the nuts are ready to harvest in late August or early September. If your growing season is longer than Minnesota's, your nuts should be ready to harvest now. As for how to harvest them, you can try shaking the tree. Otherwise, you can wait until they fall from the tree, or you can go at it with a ladder. If you have a black walnut, the nuts should be edible. The same website offers tips on removing the husk and extracting the nuts. Marco polo 02:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

A sports question, why do cyclist in an individual time trial start in reverse order?[edit]

Why do they start in reverse order? Is it as a kind of reward for having done well before? Yet while this could kind of hold true during a stage race, during say the world champs or the olympic games this is not the same because neither of those races are part of a larger race. Mathmo Talk 22:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I think most competitions where individuals compete one at a time has the leader go last. As the linked article says I think this is just to make things interesting for spectators, If the frontrunner went first no one would stick around to see the lower ranked competitors finish. Also there will be more exciting lead changes when run in the normal reverse order. -- Diletante 22:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I think (and I'm not entirely sure of this) that in races like the Olympics where riders won't hold a place as part larger race such as a Tour, then the starting sequence is determined on current world rankings. --jjron 05:42, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

In motor sport the leader goes first for the obvious reason that slower drivers will unwittingly block a faster vehicle. That's why Formula One establish a grid by each driver setting a best time ahead of the race. 14:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)DT