Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 September 1

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September 1[edit]

Downloading Text Messages onto a Computer[edit]

My text message inbox on my LG EnV 3 cell phone is nearly full. Is there anyway I can download and save these messages onto my computer? Or must I delete all my old messages? Acceptable (talk) 00:16, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

There might be a cord you can buy to attach the EnV3 to your computer and download the info - for most newer phones there is, and I think I had it mentioned while considering purchasing that. The sure-fire way is to forward all of them to your email address, although that will certainly take a lot of time and, depending on your text message plan, cost you a ton of money. ~ Amory (usertalkcontribs) 05:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
LG has a Windows application that talks to its phones (I've not used it, but if it's like the Nokia equivalent then backing up, copying, and selectively-deleting messages is just the kind of thing it's for). You can get it from the LG Mobile website for your country (the UK one is here). -- Finlay McWalterTalk 12:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Wrong section, this belongs in computing. If this type of warning is not alowed hear, please post on my talk page, but DO NOT flame me, thanks!Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 14:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[edit]

What is the pin-out (live, neutral, ground)? (talk) 00:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I do not understand your question. Nowhere in this article does it mention a "pin-out" or any variation thereof. This may be a language barrier issue, in which case, could you use the wording used in the article? Intelligentsium 01:33, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I take the pin-out query to mean, which wire is to be connected to which terminal, in terms of live, neutral & earth - see Pinout. I think the OP wants information similar to that contained in the 13amp plug illustration to the right. Sadly I don't know the answer. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Um, what more answer is there than the illustration? Seems to cover everything to me. (To be completely clear, "earth" is the UK term for "ground".) (talk) 07:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I removed the image. It was very bad advice. Judging by their IP address and the BS546#5 A 3 Pin article link provided in the header, the OP is asking about wiring a plug in India. Whilst it could be the same, to provide a wiring diagram for a newer UK standard plug is potentially dangerous. Astronaut (talk) 11:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
From memory the top pin is earth (100% certain) and when looking at the back of the plug when you are wiring it the right hand is live and the left neutral (90% certain). -- Q Chris (talk) 12:00, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Agree with Q Chris. Modern British wall sockets are mandatorily wired[1] thus

                     Neutral    Live
and the plug mouldings are embossed correspondingly. However the OP refers to the older BS546 standard where plugs do not identify N and L (hence the question. EARTH is obviously the big pin.). The standard even includes unpolarised 2-pin connectors which are oblivious to any L/N convention. Advice to the OP is to use a mains (not automobile!!) Test light to see whether wall sockets are wired as expected. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I have found a document confirming that this was the case for Irish wired BS546 three pin plugs[2]. I am now 99% sure that this was the case for the old British plugs, and probably 90% sure that it would be the same in India. -- Q Chris (talk) 14:40, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

This "live on the right" convention has been the de facto standard in the UK (and probably the Commonwealth) for a very long time, but does anyone know how long? It was certainly the standard in the 1950s, and I think long before that. Dbfirs 09:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Cellphone trouble[edit]

Is there anyone here who knows how to get the battery cover off of this particular cell phone - the Sony Ericsson z130a? I'm having no luck with mine. I need to take the battery out because the phone won't turn on, and I think the battery may be the problem.--WaltCip (talk) 01:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I was looking on the Sony Ericsson website for a user manual, but that particular phone is not listed. Maybe it was only available in a specific country or is very old and no longer supported through the site. So, perhaps you can tell us more information, like when and where did you get it? Astronaut (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Any chance that the model is "Z310a" instead of "z130a"? A web search turns up orders of magnitude more hits of the former than of the latter. If the model is "Z310a", try searching using '"sony ericsson" z310a manual' as the search terms. -- (talk) 02:38, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
You may want to look at the 'Support' section of your cellphone provider's website (if the phone was originally available from your cellphone provider) to see if there's a section on the phone and how to remove the battery cover. Typically speaking, if you look on the back and sides for ridged areas or depressed areas, you may see where to push in/up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:46, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Photo of an Engrish banner in an Asian Marketplace[edit]

In big professionally produced lettering, it declares something like 'The translation application is not working at this time. Please try again later.' Does anyone know this one? Can they find it for me? I saw it years ago, and wanted to show it to a friend.

Adambrowne666 (talk) 05:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know that one, but this was recently in the news - a translation into Welsh reading "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated". Warofdreams talk 09:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it is this one you are looking for? --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, both of you - and yes, Saddhiyama, that's the one - well done! Adambrowne666 (talk) 07:02, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Google fonts[edit]

In this logo, what font is "maps" in? I know the "Google" part is in Catull, but I can't figure out the second part. Thanks for your time. (talk) 09:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Google maps logo.png

Have you tried What The Font? Dismas|(talk) 10:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
What The Font doesn't seem to match it, at least when I tried. It looks like a variant of Univers [3][4], but I'm not absolutely sure. You could try the Font-finder forums. --Nigelpackham (talk) 10:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I think it's some variant of Calibri. The "m" and the p" are spot on but the "a" and the "s" are slightly different. I doubt that you will be able to get an "automated" process that can tell the difference between this font and a million other humanist fonts. -- (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
According to [5] it's a bespoke font designed for Google by Hoefler & Frere-Jones. It's not (legally) available to anyone else. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 00:01, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Well, it could be, if someone reverse engineered it. You can't copyright typefaces in the USA. -- (talk) 00:54, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I've heard Toby Frere-Jones himself lament this very phenomenon (long before co-founding his own firm), of rogue, plagiarising type-vendors fiddling with the scale so they could legally rip off the very hard original work of his colleagues (and himself). I can't even get started on the elementary introductory exercise of tracing or copying one letter from a classic font like Baskerville; can you imagine how laborious, even with computer assistance, it is to create a whole type face? —— Shakescene (talk) 04:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I guess that's why you shouldn't make a typeface in advance. -- (talk) 13:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
In advance of what? Using it? —Tamfang (talk) 09:15, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


If we have an Overseas identity card is it ok to travel even if the passport validity has expired, that is, is it as good as a passport with a visa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

You don't say what kind of travel you have in mind, which might help somewhat. However, I really wouldn't take the advice of anyone on this forum on a matter like this, even if they are (or profess to be) knowledgeable on the subject. Check with your airline, travel agent, or the appropriate immigration authority. --Richardrj talk email 10:14, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Many countries will not allow you to enter and will send you back at your own expense if your passport is going to expire in less than 6 months, let alone one that has already expired. If you don't have your visa, you might have problems getting back in to the country you left. That said, one anecdotal story: a friend and her mother came to visit me in Morocco and the afternoon she was due to travel realised that she had mislaid her passport, but had her French national card (carte d'identité). The airline reluctantly let her travel after much negotiation by her mother (who is a lawyer), and the immigration official at this side came to find me, checked my residency permit and made me sign a written document to attest that I was legally responsible for her throughout her stay. He finished by saying to her "you are very lucky young lady". It was 11pm and there were no return flights to Paris so he let her off very lightly. Despite this unusual occurence my advice is don't risk it! -- Александр Дмитрий (Alexandr Dmitri) (talk) 19:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

First question: Which country are you talking about ? DOR (HK) (talk) 03:18, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

More precisely: what country are you a citizen of, what country are you in, and what country do you want to go to? --Nigelpackham (talk) 12:44, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
The OP's IP is in India. Anyway, If you need a visa to enter the country, then it goes without saying that you will need your passport, as your visa will be in the passport. I don't understand what you mean by 'overseas identity card'. Do you mean an identity card of the country you wish to travel to? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 02:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


Any recently based advice welcome. My wife and I are UK based and going to Cuba in January for 2 weeks - first week is an organised tour staying in several 3-4 star tourist hotels followed by 3 nights in a similar class hotel in Havana. 2nd week is on the beach in a purpose built all inclusive 4* Hotel. So, we don't smoke, we don't drink too much and all our food and transport is included, unless we want to break-out. We know Cuba is a poor country with not a lot of opportunities to buy fashion, cosmetics, jewellery etc. And we will visit famous Revolution sites and museums - possibly a late show or two (all of which we shall need to pay entrance fees for). We also know about Pesos and CUC's, and the inevitable hustlers and fake cigar salesmen etc., but we don't mind tipping for good service. So my question is, given we can't use Amex or US-based plastic, and given therefore we will neeed to take UK Sterling or Euros (which poses a significant security risk), how much cash should we take with us? As I said, any recent advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. (talk) 12:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I haven't a clue as to the amount, but I will just note that usually, if you have large sums of money (or other valuables), there are ways to store it safely in your hotel. Either your room will have a safe in it, or you can store it in the hotel's safe, to withdraw as you need it. If I were traveling somewhere with a lot of cash, I would probably do that, to avoid being totally broke if I were robbed. (I might also store copies of my passport in there—obviously they would not be legal but they could be of some use in expediting things.) -- (talk) 14:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
This page says you can use your debit cards in ATMs and this Guardian story says the FCO advises you check with your bank (it's always a good idea to do this anyway, as it can prevent them stopping your cards when you're abroad, leaving you high and dry) and to take travellers cheques. The FCO's advice about travel to Cuba, which includes details about money and finances, is here. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 15:04, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
A similar question was asked at the end of July here. My offer made there still stands. // BL \\ (talk) 00:38, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


how do i insert a picture from my computer into a question(i e a question in refernce desk) ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:32, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Best thing is to upload it to a free image hosting website such as this one and then provide us with the link in your question. --Richardrj talk email 14:41, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

When a Briton say: "my country"[edit]

What does he mean? I suppose the Scots don't include England, but do the English include Scotland? --Quest09 (talk) 17:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

It depends on the context entirely. He may be refering to the U.K. as a whole, or only to his Home Nation. You'd have to know who he was talking to and what the general context of the entire conversation was about to deduce which he meant. --Jayron32 17:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
It's very confusing to be honest about it, and that confusion can be used perversely to cause dissent. I was born in England but when asked, I always respond that I am British. My wife was born in Scotland but she too considers herself to be British. But my son-in-law will never admit to being British, instead asserting his Scottishness, even though he has English blood in his veins. But some news reporters will play the political game, especially in Sporting events. Take Chris Hoy, the olympic cyclist and gold medal winner. He entered as a part of the British Olympic Team but was lauded by both Scottish and English reporters as "their" champion until Hoy himself silenced the argument by saying he was proud to be Scottish by birth but British by his inclusion in the sporting world. And look at Andy Murray the Scots born Tennis player who played at the All England Gentlemans' Tennis Championships (Wimbledon) but went on TV to say in public that he hoped that any football team "except England's" would win in the European Football Championships. Needless to say he is still remembered and remains unforgiven for that xenophobia - which he now claims was a misunderstanding. As to my Wesh friends, they have no difficulty in proclaiming their Welshness and Britishness - they simply have a much more mature approach to the matter. And the Irish? How many stars are there in the sky? (talk) 18:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Technically all the stars are waaaaaaay further out then the sky. Googlemeister (talk) 19:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Murray's comment, if taken in context, was very clearly a joke. I think most people accept that now. --Tango (talk) 20:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
It varies from person to person and from situation to situation. I think, as a rule, the English are more likely to refer to themselves as British than people from the other Home Nations. --Tango (talk) 20:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Tango, if I could know that you were Scottish, I would accept your glib generalisation that Murray's comment, taken in context, whatever that means, is now glossed over as having been a joke - in Scotland. But having lived here for over 30 years, and been in bars and private homes during many international football matches, and having repeatedly listened to such disparaging remarks, made in earnest, I am deeply aware that Murray's anti-English and oft-repeated remark (albeit by others) is indeed no joke, it is said in all sincerity by many many many Scots, both young and old. So come on, where are you from? (talk) 22:33, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
All football "fans" do this. Hateful spite is part of the "beautiful game". Vimescarrot (talk) 00:13, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. I know a Manchester City supporter who will support any team playing against Manchester United. -- Q Chris (talk) 07:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
That's not just a Manchester thing. Most people I know will happily support anyone opposing Man U (and now Chelsea also); this kind of hatred is very much part of football fandom, as Vimescarrot says. Algebraist 11:21, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Not only Man City. Why exclude the millions across the world who support their opponents? (talk) 08:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)DT

That's a common sports joke. As with shirts that say, "My favorite teams are the Chicago Bears, and whoever's playing the Green Bay Packers." And vice versa, of course. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 10:47, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Maybe a more relevant comparison to Man U is to the New York Yankees. Fans of the Boston Red Sox are born hating the Yankees, but a lot of folks outside Boston hate the Yankees on general principle. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Follow-up question: Where is Tango from? We know that he is from the UK, not only due to his Wikipedia-is-also-British crusade, but also because he explicitly admitted it. --Quest09 (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

That's a pretty irrelevant and ad hominem attack. FWIW I'm 50% English and 50% Welsh, and I call myself English (never British). --Richardrj talk email 10:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
No no Richard - I too understand the nature of an ad hominem attack - but my attack is not aimed at Tango - it is aimed at discovering the source of his generalisations that "Murray's comment, taken in context, is now seen as a joke". All I seek is some factual justification for those (Tango's) comment; an explanation of "taken in context" in the context of this discussion, and maybe his perspective of both of those remarks/justifications based on his own nationality. Maybe if he came down from the ivory towers of Durham University to explain his comments we could move on. As to Manchester City v Manchester United etc., I see that as an example of global rivalry (I was an avid supporter of Leeds United when I lived there) - but in the context of two adjacent member countries of the United Kingdom, I see such comments, in either direction, as Xenophobic. (talk) 10:52, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with opposing the England football team. I support anyone who can knock England out of a tournament, because it's the only way we (in England) get any competent sports journalism rather than mindless nationalism. Algebraist 11:21, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I am English and graduated from Durham several months ago, not that I see the relevance of either of those is to this discussion. I suggest you look at wikt:context if you aren't sure what the word means. I am basing my assessment primarily on the media - since people usually base their own opinions on what the media tells them, such a basis is usually very reliable. --Tango (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
While we're doing anecdotal answers to the original question, I'm a man of Kent and I don't think I ever say "my country". If I did, I would be talking about some political or legal point, so I would be referring to either England and Wales or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Algebraist 11:21, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Well, so people won't explicitly know what you are referring to. If you were abroad, you probably were asked how things are in "your country." So, there is plenty of people saying in "my country".--Quest09 (talk) 11:39, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Especially as that question would likely be preceded by, "Where are you from?" Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I've always been curious as to why people (usually people who are not native monolingual English-speakers) use the term 'my country'. Does anyone know the reason for the prevalence of the expression? AlexTiefling (talk) 11:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

It's personalizing your homeland, which can either be by birth or by choice. Other terms are "fatherland", "mother country", etc. Patriotism. I'd've thought was obvious. Or is that not what you're asking? FYI, the American song "This Is My Country" puts that concept to music.[6] But it's not just the USA. For example, I recall seeing gold-medal winning Soviet skaters with tear-filled eyes on the Olympic podium when the Soviet anthem was playing. Patriotism. Homeland. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 12:00, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that non-native speakers use the expression "my country" more frequently. Probably foreigners talk more about their country, hence the disparity. If you are in your own country, you can just say "here".--Quest09 (talk) 12:01, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
This is what "My Country" means to me. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:07, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I mean, why not just say the name of the country? When I am abroad, I don't say 'in my country...', I say 'In Britain', 'In the UK', or 'In England', as appropriate. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
You can say that, and many people do. But if you're trying to convey not only that something happens in <Country X>, but also that you are a citizen of that country and can be expected to speak with some authority about it, then "in my country, <Country X>, ..." would be what you'd say. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:51, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
No it isn't (for me anyway). I'd say something like "In Britain ..." and leave the fact that I'm British out of it. Or I'd say "I'm British. There we...". Or just conceivably muddle two entities up with "I'm British, In England we...". The phrase "my country" isn't in my standard repetoire. -- SGBailey (talk) 08:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
I agree that few from this side of the pond would regularly say "my country" we would, perhaps sub-consciously, think we were adding "right or wrong". I might say "where I live ...", but I would be referring to my home region, not "my country". Most of us just don't have that sort of national identity, despite being proud of where we live. Dbfirs 23:51, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

violated hippa rights and fraud[edit]

my 40 year old son grandma has guardianship over son by fraud and his aunt violated his hippa rights she is a nurse at a vets hospital,no disability org,has been any help legal aid refused me help because of my sons money.NEED HELP —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imani victory (talkcontribs) 23:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

The reference desk can't offer legal advice. We've got a disclaimer at the top of the page. Vimescarrot (talk) 00:14, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
That's correct; sorry, we have a no-legal-advice policy, even if we knew where to start. You didn't mention where you live, but if it's in the US, and you lack the $200 for an attorney's hour of chatting with you, you could always try a longshot and go to the Bill Handel website here, where you can describe the situation and try to actually get on his radio show and get him (he's an attorney, unlike us) "to tell you that you have no case." (USA! USA!) Tempshill (talk) 05:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Vet hospital sounds like the U.S. government has some responsibility, so write your Congressman. His minions can make things happen. Edison (talk) 15:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Is your son a veteran? Or is it just that his aunt works at a VA hospital? If your son is a veteran, perhaps it might be worth talking to any relevant veterans' group, especially if he's already a member (e.g. the American Legion, American GI Forum, Disabled American Veterans, Vietnam Veterans of America, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, etc. See Category:American veterans' organizations). I'm assuming that you're in the United States; if not there are similar organizations in other countries, like The Royal British Legion and the Royal Canadian Legion. —— Shakescene (talk) 05:15, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
One thing that might help your search is knowing the right spelling -- it's HIPAA, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. --Trovatore (talk) 05:26, 3 September 2009 (UTC)