Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 July 24

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July 24[edit]

British green roads[edit]

I have no idea about green roads or green paths in the UK. I know there are green ways in the US, but they should be different from green roads in the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:06, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Greenway (landscape) includes UK examples. StuRat (talk) 02:26, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
A "Greenway" is not the same as a Green Lane in the UK. The latter are usually unpaved ancient roads which are often byways open to all traffic, but increasingly restricted to bridleway status to avoid damage from motorised vehicles. Dbfirs 05:58, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
The sport of driving on these lanes in off-road vehicles is known as "Greenlaning". This is something of an anathema to those who want to walk or ride horses or mountain bikes along the same roads, and can find them churned into an impassable morass by a convoy of Land Rovers. Ditto farmers who use them to move their livestock and farm vehicles from A to B. See GREEN LANES ROW We have a very brief mention at Off roading#Green laning. Alansplodge (talk) 15:57, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Exit wound from a .50 BMG?[edit]

I've heard from anecdotal sources online that a .50 caliber BMG round from an M82 sniper rifle will leave you with an exit wound the size of a watermelon. Not sure if this is accurate or not, but in general, will high-powered rifle rounds leave a larger or small exit wound with increasing engagement distance?

I'm thinking that if someone was shot point-blank with a .50 BMG, the bullet will pass right through them easily right? Leaving a hole the same as the diameter of the bullet? Or would the bullet fragment and leave a much larger wound upon impact at point blank?

On the other hand, I'm thinking that if the engagement distance was greater, the shooter would have to arc the bullet and hence, hit the victim at a downward angle, leaving a much larger wound.

Are the scenarios accurate?

Acceptable (talk) 02:39, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

It matters less what size the round is and more how it is constructed. An Expanding bullet can leave a very large exit wound even if it is a small caliber. If I understand correctly, a frangible round such as the Glaser Safety Slug will leave smaller exit wounds. RudolfRed (talk) 03:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
AFAIK every .50 BMG round I've ever seen is mil-spec full metal jacket. Shadowjams (talk) 03:56, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
According to Mythbusters, a round impacting at high velocity will tend to fragment and do much more damage than an equivalent round impacting at low velocity. Rather than leaving a neat hole, I'm pretty sure that a point blank .50 BMG round will tear apart the bullet and create a very large exit wound. Dragons flight (talk) 04:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
It's not just the hole that the bullet makes. You have to think of the flesh that's in the immediate path of the bullet having to move out of the way (or be very compressed) at some sizeable fraction of the speed of sound. That creates shockwaves that radiate outwards in all directions - but as the bullet progresses through the flesh, those shockwaves build upon each other in the approximate direction it's travelling so in the end there is a roughly conical region of very fast motion withing the body that's tearing the tissues apart. This shockwave is doing the damage - not the bullet itself or the fragments it produces. Hence you get a relatively small entry wound and a very large exit wound - and immense amounts of trauma spreading outwards from one to the other. SteveBaker (talk) 15:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
There is not any appreciable arc to the bullet at any range where you could reliably hit something. At 1000 yards it still passes through a body in less than a millisecond. Rmhermen (talk) 15:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but when something that's a half inch in diameter passes through a distance of (say) six inches in a millisecond, a couple of cubic inches of flesh have to move a quarter inch to the side in much MUCH less than a millisecond. That creates crazy rates of acceleration - unbelievable g-forces - and a large amplitude supersonic shockwave that radiates outwards - and that rips and tears delicate cellular structures with extreme violence. SteveBaker (talk) 16:01, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
There's a "50 BMG VS DEER" video on youtube showing the exit wound... Ssscienccce (talk) 16:51, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

What kind of bow is the Sagittarius centaur using?[edit]

I think it's an Asian bow of some kind but that's all I've determined so far. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Googling 'Sagittarius image' shows that Sagittarius is shown with different types of bow, sometimes 'recurved' and sometimes 'straight' - see our bow shape article for the difference. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

'Straight' bow'recurved' bow

(Images added by Andy, reformatted to save space) μηδείς (talk) 03:33, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Reformatted your image as a link so it doesn't enroach into the question below. Astronaut (talk) 11:39, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Most of the images I viewed before posting this and the images I'm viewing now are of the archer holding the composite (edit: recurve) bow. Somehow I think this bow is the original or correct one. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:03, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

People crossing river in SA in the1800[edit]

What did the people use to cross the river in the olden days when there was no bridges in South Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:02, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Boats or swimming. And if they were on horseback, they might have stayed on their horse and encouraged it to wade or swim the river. Astronaut (talk) 11:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
At a ford or drift if they could find one. Rmhermen (talk) 14:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Agreed; see "Crossing a river with ox waggons". "Drifts" were of strategic value in wartime - notably Rorke's Drift. Alansplodge (talk) 15:45, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Multi-sports events[edit]

Are multi-sports events amateur, pro-am or professional, and why? Armbrust The Homunculus 12:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, to all. Why? Many different reasons, which may include money, quality of competition, and more. See the Olympic Games for one major example. Mingmingla (talk) 14:41, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay, but what if there is no prize money? Armbrust The Homunculus 18:13, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
In that case, no one wins any money. People will still compete for the sake of competition. Mingmingla (talk) 19:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
There is no prize money at the Olympics, but it's not an amateur event. The status of an event, professional or amateur, depends on the status of the competitors, not whether there is prize money. HiLo48 (talk) 23:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

What happened to your previous article in which you list the names of many famous people with a lisp?[edit]

Is there a way to access - as by going to your archives - the article you once had in which you listed the names of famous individuals who have been affected by lisp - as you now have a comparable article listing the names of famous individuals who have been affected by a stutter?

As someome with a speech disorder himself, can you tell me why it was taken down, and whether it can, or will, be recreated?

Thanks (especially if you can bring this article back) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know for sure - but our WP:BLP guidelines are pretty strict about having solid references for facts we present about living people. It's quite likely that if there was insufficient proof of the entries that the entire page could get dumped. SteveBaker (talk) 15:53, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Not exactly what you are looking for, but we do have Category:People with a speech impediment. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:00, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
  • It is not the ref desk's purpose to go on a fishing hunt to collect names of living persons who may suffer what they see as an embarassing/problematic condition. Nor, in almost all cases, do we have reliable sources. See WP:BLP. μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Nobody has ever suggested the ref desk go on such a fishing hunt. The question was about (a) why an article Wikipedia used to have was removed, (b) whether it can be accessed in the archives, and (c) whether it will be recreated, which I assume means restored to the state it was in when it was deleted. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:05, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
There used to be List of famous people with lisps from mid 2007. However it had no worthwhile content, one famous actor and a musician and no supporting references. The speedy delete was basically invalid, but it is not worth having back. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:46, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


I recall donating after a recent banner heading seeking funds for Wikipedia. I have not seen if this achieved the required sum for the organisation. Anybody know please? (talk) 16:33, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

According to, "Year-to-date [May 31, 2013] revenue is $50.56MM versus plan of $45.79MM, approximately $4.77MM or 10% over plan". Mitch Ames (talk) 01:43, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

So THAT's OK then….. (talk) 08:50, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


My Grandfather (in the UK) used to make delicious Parkins, a type of ginger biscuit if I remember correctly 50 or 60 years back All one can buy now are Perkins, they do't taste as good. Are they supposed to be the same as Parkins or are they a different biscuit? (talk) 17:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I've always known it as Parkin (singular), and never heard it called Perkin(s), but our article gives both spellings (as does the Chambers Dictionary). The OED only gives the -a- spelling, but cites some plural examples (meaning "a piece of parkin"). It's more a cake than a biscuit - there are plenty of recipes online if you want to make your own.. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 17:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
... and of course nothing tastes as good as it did 50-60 years ago. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 18:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Too true! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:08, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

With Or Without You[edit]

Since English is not my first language I am asking this question... I know all U2 lyrics, but I always have had this on my mind... the lyrics of that song says With or without you I can't live or With or without you I can leave, I hear it as if Bono says I can't Miss Bono [zootalk] 20:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I think you'll find the lyric is "I can't live with or without you". --TammyMoet (talk) 21:07, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
So, I was right? Yay! My english is not that bad, then :) Thanks Tammy. Miss Bono [zootalk] 21:12, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
But it's live, not leave! Rojomoke (talk) 22:12, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I have always sung "wither without you". (I.e., marchitar) Mondegreen. μηδείς (talk) 00:58, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
I hear if you play it backwards, there's a hidden positive message about the sun coming up tomorrow and plenty of fish in the sea. Probably just an urban legend. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:49, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I know it's live, I spell it wrong above, sorry... As for the hidden message... I guess we have to ask Bono? lol Miss Bono [zootalk] 12:01, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Video date[edit]

I have a Live video on U2's Until The End Of The World. I was wondering what's the exact date of that video. It is for sure the ZooTV period. Bono is not wearing shades, Edge is wearing a violet (or pink) sleeveless shirt. In some part of the video Bono takes one of the camera and approaches it to his pants (yeah, that part of the pants- don't ask), before that he kisses the camera... Any ideas?? Miss Bono [zootalk] 21:15, 24 July 2013 (UTC)