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June 24[edit]

Wiki article for *Karen Handel* - possible issue of "circular sourcing"[edit]

I believe I may have encountered some circular sourcing (where A is a source for B, B is a source for C, C is a source for A, and so on) or general dearth of information regarding a statement on Karen Handel's page. It states: "she served as deputy chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle's wife, Marilyn, where she worked to promote breast cancer awareness and research." The cited links all either (a) route to broken links, or (b) don't actually provide that information. When I tried to do my own research (ie googling), I get a lot of circular sourcing, with every newspaper article/media outlet regurgitating the same generalized information: that Handel worked for Marilyn Quayle. I can't find a direct source, nor can I find any additional information (when did she work for Marilyn? for how long? in what exact capacity? etc.) Given the recent election, I think it'd be great to find a better source and clarify things. I appreciate your help! UltravioletAlien (talk) 05:47, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

If someone doesn't come up with one, I think you should post something on the article's talk page and tag the statements with {{better source}} ("[better source needed]") or {{failed verification}} ("[not in citation given]") as applicable. See those templates. --76.71.5.114 (talk) 06:03, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
There's an article in the Indianpolis Star 24 October 2012, Wednesday, page B3 that quotes Handel making a speech: "When I worked for Dan and Marilyn [Quayle] as a young staffer, I was extermely impacted by their faith...." and goes on to describe Handel's experience "as she tried to cut grant funding for Planned Parenthood." She supported "Susan G. Komen for the Cure"'s (initial, later reconsidered) decision to cut grant funding for Planned Parenthood because they could get more money and the Planned Parenthood studies were "poor-quality grants that weren't helpping the fight against breast cancer." So there at least we have the Quayle connection in her own words. Handel resigned from Komen to protest the reversal of their decision about Planned Parenthood. - Nunh-huh 06:50, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Another article in the Baltimore Sun, 4 February 2012, Saturday, page A14 quotes "Rob Simms, a close friend [of Handel] who aided Handel's political career saying that "Handel had worked as deputy chief of staff to Marilyn Quayle, wife of Former Vice President Dan Quayle, as part of her breast cancer awareness outreach efforts." "Simms is now [i.e. in 2012] chief of staff to Rep. Bill Shuster, a Pennsylvania Republican." - Nunh-huh 06:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Thank you both. UltravioletAlien (talk) 06:04, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Creation of fantasy names[edit]

In the Hunger Games, there are the names Katniss (feminine) and Peeta (masculine). In the Game of Thrones, there is the name Daenerys (Dany, feminine). Real-life names often imply a person's culture, but in a fantasy world, these names apparently have no culture. Instead, they seem to be derived from real-world names like "Kat" (short for Katherine), "Peter", and "Danielle" (feminine form of Daniel). Do fiction writers ever take into account of the language and naming pattern of a particular culture? Maybe a person's given name is "Tree-Stump", because his parents think it's a good idea to name a kid "Tree-Stump". The person's family name may be "Ugga-ugga", which is the Romanized form derived from an archaic word in the kid's native language that means "grunting". And the author writes in English, because English is a real-world language and the audience understands English. So, as a whole, the person's name is Tree-Stump Ugga-ugga. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 17:05, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Fantasy is well-known for created names in fictional cultures, not culture-less names as you claim. Even your example show this. Katniss is the name of a flower with an edible root (she is known for her hunting and foraging) - her sister's name is Primrose (a medicinal herb name for a healer). Tolkien was the most elaborate: Languages_constructed_by_J._R._R._Tolkien. See also Characters in Earthsea. This page looks at George R.R. Martin's naming system. Rmhermen (talk) 18:36, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
I think it's noteworthy that the name form of the original language is kept, but somehow, in the process of Romanization, the name is spelled a particular way, such as "Daenerys". When it comes to East Asian names, for example, a person named 洋洋 may use the pinyin spelling, "Yang Yang". A literal translation of the name would be "Ocean Ocean". To reflect the one-syllable original word, "Sea Sea" may be the translated name. Practically, many native Chinese speakers simply choose an English name that bears no connection to the Chinese name. By the way, "Sea Sea" sounds like "Cece", which is actually a recognized name in Western culture. It is short for Cecil or Cecelia. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 21:36, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
[For anyone confused by this non-sequitur, it appears to be a misplaced response to answers in another thread on the Language Ref desk, also initiated by 50.4.236.254. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.221.82.167 (talk) 15:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)]
Noted that this is a non-sequitur, but thought I would mention that "洋洋", "Yang Yang" almost certainly does not mean "Ocean Ocean". Chinese parents who choose this name are likely to have in mind the four-character idiom "喜氣洋洋", "xiqi yangyang" "to be full of happy spirit", where the "yangyang" bit means being satisfied or smug. It would be quite weird for this to be "translated" into "Ocean Ocean" or "Sea Sea", no matter how closely the latter sounds like Cece or Sissi (which, by the way, is popular as an "English" name amongst Chinese people due to the cultural influence of the film depicting Empress Elisabeth of Austria). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:43, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
IMO, the master of fantasy naming is Jack Vance. While others often invent names that just sound fake and made up, his often odd-sounding creations still have a verisimilitude that nobody else comes close to. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:12, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

June 25[edit]

Infinite Wealth and Happiness[edit]

Would an infinite amount of money make people happy? -- 05:15, 25 June 2017 14.202.204.226

Money can pave the road to happiness, but it does not provide happiness in and of itself. Some of the most famous philosophers have espoused the idea that the fewer possessions one owns, the more time and focus one will be able to dedicate to discovering inner peace and true happiness. See Teachings of Jesus, Dharma, Francis of Assisi, Taoism to explore related philosophies and theologies. UltravioletAlien (talk) 06:04, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Then there's the "middle road" proposed by the Buddha, who argued that it's hard to focus on spiritual matters while starving to death or while managing a fortune. StuRat (talk) 06:13, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
No. First, it would be meaningless to say that everyone could have infinite wealth, as "wealth" is largely a relative measure comparing the resources of one person with another. If everyone had a trillion dollars, then nobody would be willing to work for anyone else (or would charge billions of dollars to do so). But, if you mean just one person has infinite wealth, that would mean they would own everything, and effectively everyone, on Earth. That situation seems unlikely to create happiness, too. For one thing, they would always be paranoid that others might try to take their wealth, say by kidnapping. StuRat (talk) 06:02, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
I think its important to distinguish between money and "stuff". With Fiat money, money isn't really wealth - its just a way of measuring wealth, and determining who owes what to whom. If you doubled everyone's money, no one would be any better off, because inflation would make the money half as valuable. But if you doubled the amount of "stuff" everyone had, they would all be better off. Iapetus (talk) 14:23, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
To some extent, yes. Having two cars is better than one, in that you have a spare in case the primary breaks down, or if two family members want to drive different places at the same time. But even here there's reduced utility with each new car. So, 3 may be better than 2, but not by as much as 2 was better than 1, and that wasn't as much as 1 was better than 0. When you get to a difference between owning a trillion cars and a trillion and one cars, or even 100 trillion, at that point additional cars do you no good, unless you can sell them, and if you have all the wealth in the world, there would be nobody to sell them to. Indeed, they would become a massive burden, in just finding places to store them, trying to keep them all operational, etc. So, there's a certain ideal number, somewhere between 3 and a trillion. Indeed, the only source of happiness in having so much wealth may be found in giving some of it away. StuRat (talk) 14:47, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
For example, if someone literally had all the world's gold, gold would cease to be of any value as money. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:25, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
And if everyone had an infinite supply of gold, it would no longer be much used in jewelry, as being rare and showing off your wealth is part of the charm. Sure, it's a nice material that doesn't tarnish, but so is surgical quality stainless steel and few people buy wedding rings made out of that. Gold would be useful for electrical wires and as cladding on cars, silverware, etc. (solid gold isn't as useful because it's too soft). So, it would become something like nickel-plating. StuRat (talk) 14:27, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
14.202.204.226 -- There are several well-known science-fiction stories (such as The Midas Plague) about what might happen if economic scarcity is no longer relevant. AnonMoos (talk) 12:28, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
I forget who said this: "I've been both rich and poor; and rich is better." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:23, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Usually attributed to either Sophie Tucker or Joe E. Lewis, but Beatrice Kaufman seems better attested than either. --Antiquary (talk) 21:32, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
You may be interested in A Classic Psychology Study on Why Winning the Lottery Won’t Make You Happier by Melissa Dahl and Lottery Winners and Accident Victims: Is Happiness Relative? by Philip Brickman and Dan Coates (Northwestern University), and Ronnie Janoff-Bulman (University of Massachusetts). Alansplodge (talk) 14:11, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
There was a widely reported US study just after the 2008 banking collapse. It concluded that money makes people happier, only up to a certain income (then about 75k $). See Wall Street Journal for example. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 16:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Imagine if you suddenly inherit $50 million, or win it in the lottery. You're set for 10 lifetimes. Then your only child is kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered. Of what value is the money then? Are you still "happy"? There's a good reason why these sorts of impossible hypothetical questions should not be entertained here on the Reference Desk. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:12, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a Happiness economics article.Pacostein (talk) 21:41, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
@JackofOz: I see a lot of interesting references and links; so far people are answering the question pretty well. Though we could use further discussion of StuRat's cogent objection that an infinite amount of money is impossible because money mostly is measured in the ability to tell other people what to do. For example, during slavery in the United States, ownership of human beings made up a large fraction of the overall wealth in the South; even today, there is a very substantial amount of intellectual property, pretty much the same idea in smaller slices. I think you end up having to drill down what "wealth" can and can't be in some detail. It surely is a very very basic question in philosophy, insomuch as economic ideas e.g. Marxism are considered to be part of philosophy. Wnt (talk) 23:12, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Also, having a large sum of money often involves having done something bad (or your ancestors having done so). At best, that might be ruthlessly crushing the competition, while at worst we have running a kleptocracy, slavery, etc. So, it's difficult for most to be happy while spending money taken, or stolen, from others. StuRat (talk) 14:56, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
you mean: generally suffering unhappiness, is retribution for bad deeds and sins, yours or your ancestors. This is a very broadly adopted belief. Hence you contradict yourself: being rich or successful is sign that you are on the right path, approved by whatever god you believe in, not a source of unhappiness but of happiness. eg: Calvinism and Weber's thesis The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism
Gem fr (talk) 16:33, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
define "happiness" first. It all depend on it.
Alain (philosopher) defined happiness as "total engagement of personality", taking example of a dog attached but forever trying to detach itself (a situation most people would find unhappy). USA constitution as a pretty similar point of view, stating the ultimate political goal is to let everyone have his "pursuit of happiness" according to his own definition.
Obviously with such definition, wealth just do not matter. Gem fr (talk) 16:48, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
For a science fiction society where material wealth has been even more obsolete than in Star Trek, see Ian M. Banks's The Culture. You can, quite literally, have anything that you want there. People are respected because they are clever, smart, funny, or interesting, not because they have more small pieces of paper or bars of gold pressed latinum. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:50, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

June 26[edit]

A guy where I work contends that CSPAN is actually harming democracy and functioning of usa legislature.[edit]

He says because of cspan, politicians can't make deals, and can't have personal friendships across party lines. Is this true? Also, are there political scientists and journalists who have discussed this claim, either pro or con?65.103.249.243 (talk) 00:00, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

(Question transferred from the Science Desk by 76.71.5.114 (talk) 00:30, 26 June 2017 (UTC))
In the wake of the shooting of a Republican congressman, I heard some members of both parties talk about how they all get along personally, they just differ over policies. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:34, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
C-SPAN seems like an odd thing to blame, as they remain neutral and just broadcast US Congressional votes, etc. Highly partisan broadcasters, web sites, social media, etc., are more the problem. Back under the Fairness Doctrine, everyone was at least exposed to the opposite opinion, but now they can completely avoid it, and this leads to radicalization. If all you ever see and hear is that person X or group X is evil, then you may believe it. I am reminded of the radio broadcasts in Rwanda just prior to the Rwandan genocide. StuRat (talk) 01:24, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
C-SPAN#Public_and_media_opinion have ref to critics.
I have few trust for "political scientists and journalists", but for sure ZERO trust on the matter. Obviously, this kind of people say that media is good for democracy, but [insert names of particular media they have grudges against] does its job so badly, it hurts democracy for this or that reason, so you better trust [insert names of media they work for/with].
The fact is, any media (gov-backed media not the least) can be broadcasting propaganda, lies, very biased information etc. with dire consequences ("manufacturing consent" to stupid politics or economics, war, genocides, etc.)
Gem fr (talk) 15:15, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
  • This is not a request for references, we have no idea why "some guy at my job" would spout any opinion--ask him. μηδείς (talk) 17:06, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
    • Of course it's a request for references. The original poster asked "Is this true?" and asked for discussion of the claim. --76.71.5.114 (talk) 21:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
I remember some robust discussion in college concerning the effect of the Government in the Sunshine Act on politics in general. The idea is that since everything is now out the the open, politicians can't do the hard "wheeling and dealing" of compromise because all of their actions are now essentially campaign fodder. Part II of this article entitled "We reformed closed door negotiations" is worth a look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.225.116.25 (talk) 23:00, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't agree that this is the source of the problem. After all, we could always see which Congressman voted for what, and who added which amendments. And closed-door negotiations are still possible, as in the most recent would-be replacement for Obamacare. Just read the Congressional Record. The transparency part has more been a change in what government departments do. StuRat (talk) 05:36, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Rosie inspiration artwork[edit]

I was looking some Rosie the Riveter images on Internet. When I looked at some images, this particular one [1] caught my eye. The only problems is I can't make out the artist's signature. Could somebody help me, please? Thank you.2604:2000:7113:9D00:B81E:C008:E611:FADF (talk) 01:31, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Your link: http://www.gothamgal.com/2014/12/women-entreprenuers-3 goes to "page not found"; however, there is a page for /women-entreprenuers-2 which shows the image "We Can Do It!" by J. Howard Miller. Is that it, or ... can you find another link to the image you are referring to? — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:90BF:36D1:C424:982A (talk) 04:16, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Odd, that address also gets me "Page not found". On the other hand the slightly respelled http://www.gothamgal.com/2014/12/women-entrepreneurs-3 does take me to a picture, which however has a signature that I can't read either. --Antiquary (talk) 09:11, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Okay. The file name is we_can_do_it__by_abranime-d7atri5-600x580.jpg; "abranime" search leads to a number of hits related to DeviantArt, e.g.:(image on pinterest) -I hope this helps. — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:90BF:36D1:C424:982A (talk) 10:02, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Just to confuse things, it looks like ABR is an abbreviation for Anime Brasil, which has a Facebook account: ABR (Anime Brasil), a website: anime-brasil.com, and multiple accounts using abranime and abranimebrasil. What I cannot tell is if ABR is really short for "A"nime "BR"asil or if ABR is a person who works for Anime Brasil. They way they use it, it looks like it is an abbreviation, not a person. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 16:22, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

(1) Information on Norwegian immigration to America (2) Norwegian whaling industry[edit]

Hello, I'm trying to gather some information for a family project. My father's side of the family is Norwegian, and I was really hoping to learn more about the history of Norwegian immigration to America. Also, my great great grandfather who came to America in the late 1800's was a whaler, which is why my family's last name is Hval (Norwegian for whale). So, I was also hoping to see if someone could gather information for me about the history of whaling in Norway. I would really appreciate it if someone could either send me some information on these subjects or refer me to other books, articles, or resources that could help me understand these topic better. Thank you very much. 2601:640:4000:ABF8:6085:2B80:3C3C:9D0 (talk) 04:22, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Have you seen Norwegian Americans & Whaling in Norway articles yet? The 'Sources', 'See also' and/or 'External links' sections might be useful. — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:90BF:36D1:C424:982A (talk) 04:50, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Has it ever taken this long to form the UK/British/English government?[edit]

It took a week longer than the time between the election and when the Queen's Speech was supposed to happen. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:16, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

The government was formed after Theresa May became PM in 2016. Under the U.K.'s (uncodified) constitution, an incumbent government remains in office until the PM resigns or the House of Commons expresses no confidence in it. The Conservatives don't necessarily need DUP support to stay in office; for as long as they can survive votes in the House of Commons, they can remain in charge. 211.23.25.61 (talk) 06:43, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
There's a difference between coalition governments, where the ministry arguably isn't fully formed until the coalition agreement has been reached, and minority governments with a confidence and supply arrangement, where the government will be formed already and the confidence and supply agreement is only to shore it up. This particular government is of the latter kind - there was even a Secretary of State already negotiating the future of the nation in Brussels before the confidence and supply agreement with the DUP had been agreed.
The amount of time required to negotiate either type of agreement will vary. The 2010 coalition agreement took 7 days. In this case, there was no realistic prospect of Labour commanding a majority in the House of Commons and even if they could the Tory minority government would not have been brought down by a vote against them until around 28 June (because of how long it takes to debate the Queen's Speech), the two parties had some time to play with. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:54, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Note that Theresa May visited the Palace the day after the election, when the Queen invited her to form a government (which she did). 94.195.147.35 (talk) 10:13, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Secondary question What is the longest governmental hiatus since the Civil War? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:21, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
I'm presuming you're not interested in the wartime Coalition? --TammyMoet (talk) 10:29, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
TammyMoet I probably don't understand your point, Chamberlain resigned on 10 May 1940 and Churchill was confirmed as the new PM on the same day - thus the hiatus was a few hours at most. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:31, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Oh I get you, I thought you'd be talking about time between elections rather than time between an election and one party forming the required Commons majority. --TammyMoet (talk) 16:45, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

June 27[edit]

Eligibility requirements for UC Board of Regents[edit]

What are the eligibility requirements to be appointed to the board of University of California Regents by the Governor of California? Does one have to be an United States citizen to be appointed or they can be permanent residents of the U.S. or be a Non-citizen US national, (e.g. American Samoan citizens)? Are the officeholders consider to be politicians and/or very important persons (VIP)? WJetChao (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Man of steel ad for Trump[edit]

Does anyone know what this "Man of Steel ad for Trump" is referring to here[2]? Could I find a clip of it on youtube? Scala Cats (talk) 01:48, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

"America Soaring", an ad run by Rebuilding America Now, got some media attention (e.g. "Donald Trump, Man of Steel" in the NYT). That ad does show "pensive workers in hard hats, all in super-slow motion", but not the exact slow motion images shown in your AM Joy clip. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:55, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Oh. That's a shame. I was hoping The Donald was going to take up rugby league and try to win Man of Steel. That I'd love to see. Bigly. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:59, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Name of this law[edit]

It is often said that hospitals are required to provide service regardless of the ability to pay. Does this law have a name? Or is this simply a statement in the law code? How prevalent is this type of law? 50.4.236.254 (talk) 01:51, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Duty to rescue? †dismas†|(talk) 02:18, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
In the United States, this is regulated by the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:41, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. The second link answers my question. I really like the Effects section. Like I expected, such a law does provide medical care for the uninsured but that means the hospital has to bear the burden of the costs! Denying medical care may seem uncompassionate, but from a fiscal perspective, it seems fair. Giving medical care to people who can't afford to pay is like giving away to moochers. Fortunately, this leads hospitals to treat patients first and then bill the patient for emergency room services. Though, there should be a requirement to notify the patient or his family that they will be billed. That way, they can refuse treatment on their own instead of being actively denied treatment. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 11:42, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
As to "how prevalent is this type of law", I think you will find that most countries either have universal health care or are not sophisticated enough to have comprehensive legislation that covers this type of thing, so it's quite rare. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:23, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Not law as such, but the Hippocratic Oath and its "decendants" form the basis of modern medical ethics - refusing to assist in cases of dire need is a profound breach of such ethical codes. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:40, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

What’s the point of anything if we’re all going to be dead someday?[edit]

??????????????????? Count Iblis (talk) 08:11, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

You might start with Quora where "What is the point of living if we are going to die and not remember anything?" gets 100+ answers. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:20, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
There is no point after you are dead, so live it while you are alive. manya (talk) 08:22, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict)See Hedonism. 94.195.147.35 (talk) 08:23, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
And Ecclesiastes 815. 94.195.147.35 (talk) 08:30, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Don't forget Nihilism... Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:47, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Do you need a point? I think people are too goal oriented. I feel sad for people who go to a gym and work out so they get some exercise but don't enjoy it. Plus quite a large percentage of statisticians have never died so the chances look quite good in that profession :) Dmcq (talk) 12:26, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Reincarnation.--Shantavira|feed me 13:37, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Gurkha Error[edit]

Hello I checked an article about Gurkha and I disagree with a small portion of the Article. The information which is there related to Gurkha soldier recruitment is incorrect. The Gurkha regiments whether they are from India or The UK, they recruit only ethnic Gurkhas as soldiers. Tharus and Madhesis are not Gurkhas. This information is wrong and needs to be corrected. I am not sure who edited that article but it's incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theeverest (talkcontribs) 08:19, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Anyone can edit the article - you can do it yourself if you can provide a good source for your statement. Alternatively, you could raise it on the article's Talk page, where those who have worked on it are more likely to see it. However, the official recruitment documents do not specify ethnic groups - any Nepali can apply. Wymspen (talk) 08:51, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
This is currently a debated topic in India and Nepal, which have a difficult relationship. To simplify, the Gurkhas are soldiers in the Indian army who were recruited from Nepal (in other words, the Nepali army). That is the modern definition. There is currently no ethnic definition for Gurkhas. If you use Gurkha as an ethnic term, you are referring to Indian people who speak Nepali. The Medhesis were mentioned specifically in the issue above. The Medhesis people have been settling in Nepal. When they join the Nepali army, they are not instantly transferred to the Indian army. They are part of the Nepali army, the Gurkha. I mentioned that this is a debated topic because it came to a head last year when the PM of Nepal visited Delhi. Nepal, opposed to the incoming immigrants, banned Medhesis from joining the Gurkha. He was asked why they made the ban and replied that the ban was on Medhesis immigrants who were not yet citizens. He also asked why India didn't enlist the Medhesis in their own army. There are still a few good articles about the interaction without heavy slant towards India or Nepal, such as this one. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 12:47, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

For those not in the know, the relevant article is Gurkha. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:57, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the Indian Army, but recruitment of British Army Gurkhas does not involve the Nepalese Army at any stage. As the Indian and British Gurkhas were the same force before 1947, it seems likely that similar arrangements apply, but I stand to be corected on that. Peoples of Eastern Asia, Volume 8 (p. 454) says: "The Gurkhas are not a separate ethnic group but are drawn mainly from Tibeto-Nepali peoples, such as the Magar, Gurung, Limbu and Rai". Alansplodge (talk) 12:14, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Hmm but as to the OP's specific comment, it does sound per 209's refer that at least for the Indian Army, there is some controversy over who can join

Tarai-Madhes Sadbhawana Party (TMSP) Chairperson Mahendra Ray Yadav demanded a rethink of the Indian policy that allows the recruitment of people from only the hill communities in the Gorkha regiments. “Entry of Madhesis should also be allowed,” Yadav told the Indian ruling parties.

Nil Einne (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Your list (Magar, Gurung, Limbu and Rai) is four of the five (missing Chhetri) primary ethnic groups of Nepal. As for the British Army Gurkhas, they were Indian Army Gurkhas. They were Nepali. Some may technically be citizens of neighboring countries, but they are ethnically Nepali and most likely speak Nepali. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 18:35, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Well, their units are descended from units that were previously British Indian Army units 70 years ago. My point is that they are not connected with the Nepalese Army as you appeared to state. However, the crux of the issue is, can we prove whether or not Madhesi people are recruited into Gurkha regiments. The statement in our article that they are recruited is unsourced, and has been queried by the OP who believes that they are not. So we need to find a reliable source to settle the issue. Alansplodge (talk) 21:43, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Swiss farinet[edit]

News sources are reporting that a complementary currency, the farinet, will be used in Switzerland. The denominations will be 1F, 5F, 10F, 13F, 20F, 50F, and 100F, each worth the same as the amount in Swiss francs.

My question is, what is the point of the 13F denomination? It is rather an odd and arbitrary choice, and there is no corresponding franc banknote.211.23.25.64 (talk) 09:01, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Selection of note and coin denominations is an application of the change-making problem. For coins (in decimal systems) I've seen suggestions or a 37 cent, 27 cent or 18 cent coin, but not 13 as a suggestion for either coins or notes. It may be someone has has decided what kind of transactions this new local currency will be used for, and used that as parameters for the optimisation algorithm linked above. But what little information I can find doesn't explain their reasoning. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 09:28, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
I finally found one reference. It mentions that 13 is a "tribute to the star flag", which I presume is the flag of the Valais canton (where these banknotes are issued) as that flag has 13 stars. The banknotes were also introduced on May 13, at 13:13. I suspect they also did it to attract attention and it seems to have worked, as other sources state that there is a shortage of the new currency and the 13 is, in particular, popular with collectors. No longer a penguin (talk) 09:37, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Yes, and the stars represent the thirteen districts. And I agree that they also did it to attract attention, all part of the tourist marketing strategy. Note (as explained in the Italian article linked by Nlap) that the currency itself is named after the Valais' (and probably entire Switzerland's) most famous counterfeiter of money, the legendary Joseph-Samuel Farinet (remembered, not least, thanks to the novel Farinet ou la Fausse Monnaie by Ramuz who, in turn, is depicted on the current real and official 200 franc note. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:46, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Right. And the 13F actually carries a picture of the flag. This is not a new phenomenon - the British post office issues stamps for some very obscure amounts. On investigation these usually turn out to correspond with entries on the current price list for posting items. A 99 pence coin has often been proposed as it corresponds to the "pence" part of the amount shown on many price tickets. 94.195.147.35 (talk) 10:20, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Stamps are a bit different - all postal organisations have always issued stamps valued at the most used postal rates - and also for the amounts needed to make one rate up to the next one - so if the main rates are 67p and 53p there will probably be a 14p stamp as well (or at least a 10p and a 4p). Odd values for bank notes is very unusual. Wymspen (talk) 12:00, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Speaking of stamps, in the US, after the price of a stamp changed to 3¢ in 1851, they introduced a 3¢ coin that continued in use for some decades. About 100 years later, when the Coca-Cola company found itself under pressure to raise its longstanding price of 5¢ for a small bottle, they actually asked the US government if it would introduce a 7½¢ coin, even though coins in fractions of a cent had not been issued since 1857. Probably fortunately for everyone else, the answer was no. --76.71.5.114 (talk) 06:56, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

June 28[edit]

AFL-CIO[edit]

Does AFL-CIO get any government funding? Benjamin (talk) 00:49, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Not in any direct sense. Unions are funded by dues paid by their members; a number of government employees are AFL-CIO members and hence it could be said that there is "indirect" funding because money is directly deducted from federal employees' paychecks and sent to the union, but that could be said for literally anything whose employees have decided to join a union. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
What about this? http://washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/30/labor-unions-awarded-millions-from-federal-agencie/ Benjamin (talk) 01:00, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Those appear to be competitive grants for particular purposes such as job training which unions (among other organizations) have competed for and been awarded. Unions often operate apprenticeship and training programs in the trades, so it stands to reason that they could successfully apply for federal grants that support job training. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:04, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Would it be reasonable to say that they receive some public funding? Benjamin (talk) 01:06, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Depends on what you're writing. The AFL-CIO is not a single union, but an umbrella organization of unions, and it's unclear whether the AFL-CIO itself has received any public funding. You'd need to speak of a specific union receiving a particular grant — that grant doesn't go to the AFL-CIO, but to the Carpenters Union or SEIU or the IAM. It would also be reasonable to note that those public funds have been provided for specific public purposes, not simply as a general subsidy for the union's operations. It's pretty common nowadays for government agencies to provide grants to private organizations to carry out government work, rather than directly hiring government staff to do it. It's like the government and Lockheed-Martin; the United States Navy can't build its own F-35 fighter jets, so they contract with Lockheed-Martin to build them. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 01:12, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Care for an AFL-CIO link anyone ? StuRat (talk) 03:40, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I had no idea what that was. That's a horrible acronym. Surely they must be able to come up with a better name and rebrand. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:20, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Compare SPEBSQSA. --Trovatore (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
The "A F of L" was formed in the 1880s. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:36, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Dweller -- the AFL and CIO were originally distinct organizations with divergent philosophies. The groups that made up the AFL tended to represent highly skilled "aristocrats of labor", often without much interest in other workers who didn't possess that particular skill. The CIO was based on an approach of recruiting all workers within a given industry (auto workers etc.). The Wikipedia articles are craft unionism and industrial unionism... AnonMoos (talk) 14:31, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I wasn't aware that craft unionism required horrible acronyms, but I'll go edjumacate meself now. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:47, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Here's another: SEIU 32BJ. It's the largest property services workers union in the country (i.e. janitors, doormen etc.) and makes me wonder why they chose to end it with BJ. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:22, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
What's so horrible about it? It's only 6 letters. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:16, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
And 6 or 7 syllables, since the "of" continues to be pronounced at least sometimes! But there is a history of labor unions using long names. Reading an old newspaper story from 1959 recently, I noticed that the labor union representing public transit workers here used to be called the "Amalgamated Association of Street Electric Railway and Motor Coach Operators of America". --76.71.5.114 (talk) 17:16, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
That's fewer than WWW. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:13, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
76.71.5.114 -- The naming of unions is a whole sub-area of onomastics. In the 20th century, a lot of unions which had members in both Canada and the United States put "International" in their names (on the same principle as the baseball "World Series" SFriendly.gif)... -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:12, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Dweller, we do it over here too, see NASUWT. Rojomoke (talk) 17:14, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Apparently the longest pronounceable acronym is MOTFOFATUSA (Member Of The Federation Of Free African Trade Unions Of South Africa) [3] Alansplodge (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Voice of transgender woman[edit]

Are the voices of transgender women something that they train to do, is it something that you reach after an operation or is it caused by female hormones? Could they speak with a male voice of they wanted? Do they do it? For example when talking on the phone, to avoid any discrimination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.7.125.186 (talk) 17:59, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on that: Voice therapy (transgender)2606:A000:4C0C:E200:90BF:36D1:C424:982A (talk) 18:56, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
The most relevant sentence from that article is: "While hormone replacement therapy and gender reassignment surgery can cause a more feminine outward appearance for male-to-female transgender individuals, they do little to alter the pitch of the voice or to make the voice sound more feminine". I'm sure such people are often working hard to do their best, but the result is sometimes a Dustin Hoffman "Tootsie"-ish type voice which is perhaps not all that convincing. In past years, I picked out M-F transgender voices several times while listening to NPR, before being told the speakers were transgender. AnonMoos (talk) 20:06, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
See falsetto. StuRat (talk) 21:38, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

June 29[edit]