Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Humanities/December 2005

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December 1[edit]


What is the difference in the 9 candle menorah and the 7 candle menorah. This is a question that I can't find a complete answer to. Which one is traditionally used? Why use one over the other? Thank you for your help. Christie

Please read the Menorah article, it may help. --hydnjo talk 01:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

song on tv ad[edit]

Does anybody know who performed Kids in America on the fall 2005 Targe tv ad? -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 09:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the commercial you mention, but there is a (relatively) well-known song called Kids in America by Kim Wilde. It was a big hit in the early 80s - it could well be that. — QuantumEleven | (talk) 12:00, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Although without hearing the actual commercial, I can't help name the artist confidently, I also want to point out that the song has also been covered by Kim Lian, a female Dutch singer, and the American Juniors. Maybe it's one of them? - 13:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Nah, I am something of a fan of the song and have (I think) eight or nine different covers of it. Just not this one. So I'm wondering who it is... -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 07:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Movies in which a black man dies first[edit]

I'm trying to compile a list for an article.

Lotsofissues 10:33, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Would you have a list of movies in which a white man dies first? These lists are ridiculous and are always very incomplete. Superm401 | Talk 15:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
No help here either but I do wonder what the point is. Some political agenda? And it brings up the question, at least in my head, as to what happens with movies whose cast is predominantly black like Boyz N the Hood? Also, you may want to read over WP:POINT Dismas|(talk) 15:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Zhe may be referring to the fact (and joke) that in movies with death, "The black guy always dies first". I think I heard this joke in Evolution. 20:39, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Found the quote at the IMDB -

Ira Kane: Snag it! Harry Block: Snag it? Ira Kane: Yeah. Come on, it's for science. Harry Block: I've seen this movie, the black dude dies first. YOU snag it!

Christopher Brookmyre's wonderful novel One Fine Day In The Middle Of The Night has a lovely take on these conventions. Whilst trying to escape from a gang of armed terrorists, Our Hero is thinking that he mustn't mention his wife, at home, is pregnant - everyone knows, after all, that talking about your wife and kids is a good way to die in the next reel... Shimgray | talk | 21:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

New York photographer Irving Chidnoff[edit]

Hi, I am loooking for information (more specifically: the year of death) of New York City celebrity photographer Irving Chidnoff (active in the 1920s/1930s). I tried all spellings I could imagine on google, in the World Biographical Information System, in a huge German artists' encyclopedia, with library OPACs and with the databases of the LOC that I am aware of: to no avail. The name does pop up as the creator of photos of Marlene Dietrich, Dolores Del Rio and the likes, but no dates whatsoever are to be found. I would like to illustrate an article on the famous cantor Yossele Rosenblatt at de.wikipedia (de:Jossele Rosenblatt) with a photo made by Chidnoff. German wikipedia (sensibly) does not allow fair use, hence I need to know if Chidnoff was alive or dead in 1934 (or 1935, then I'll have to wait for a month before inserting the image). Thanks in advance. --AndreasPraefcke 17:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't found his death year yet, either, but since he did take pictures in 1936, he must have been alive then. So forget uploading any of his images at least until 2007. Lupo 08:30, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
The Chidnoff Studio did even take pictures in 1944... if that was a one-man business, it would indicate that Irving Chidnoff still lived in 1944. Lupo 09:12, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
RootsWeb has one Irving Chidnoff (1896 - 1966), but whether that's the photographer, I do not know. If I interprete the information correctly, that SSN was issued by the state of Florida, which strikes me as unlikely for a New York photographer. But since I know nothing about where he was born, nor how U.S. SSNs work, I cannot tell if that hit is a false positive or not. Lupo 09:35, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Here's another description of an image of William Christopher Handy taken by Irving Chidnoff. So whatever his precise year of death, I think all this establishes pretty well that his works remain in copyright under a "70 years p.m.a." rule for at least another couple of years. Lupo 09:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Good for him, bad for us. But thank you very much, Lupo. --AndreasPraefcke 16:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Late update: According to a relative that wrote me an e-mail, Irving Chidnoff died in the mid-late 1960s. -- 12:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

December 2[edit]

playing the guitar[edit]

I can play songs by following tabs, but I seem to lack any musical talent for 1)detecting the proper chords to play, or "figuring out" a song and 2)improvising my own songs. For this reason as far as I'm concerned I can't really play the guitar. All of the lessons I've seen online only give tips on chords, strumming, or how to read tabs, which I can already do fine. Is there anything to do to develop musical talent?

Usually you develop a feel for what should come next simply by learning many many songs very well. It's time consuming but it works.
I don't know about guitar, but an equally time consuming way to learn to improvise on drums is to write and learn multiple simple measures. You play each measure over and over by itself until you think you'll go insane, then play them in a preplanned variety of combinations with other measures you've learned to practice transitioning. Last you try playing them in unplanned succession. Undoubtedly some will sound cooler together than others, but the idea is that you should eventually gain a natural feel for what will sound good next without having to think too hard about what you're playing. I'm sure this strategy can be adapted to the guitar.
Your problems could also be helped by studying music theory. Most every rock song out there has a very formulaic chord progression. — Laura Scudder 02:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
That's what I was about to say (the last thing). Many songs are simple chord progressions that are expounded upon. For example, the basic progression i iv V (ie C/F/G chords) and then expounded on with 6th,9th,7th etc. Also, after working very long with other peoples' music you'll see that you can develop a feel for it. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 02:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
To detect the proper chords to play, follow the bass line to find the root notes. Also, get to know the relationships between chords - A minor is relative to C major, E minor to G major, etc. Count up six notes from a major root (eg C,D,E,F,G,A or G,A,B,C,D,E) to work out the relative minor for any major chord. A song in the key of G major will often start (and end) with a G chord, and there's a very good chance that there will be a E minor in there.... TheMadBaron 21:50, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Identification of a paiting[edit]

Can someone please identify this painting? It was taken at the Australian Naitonal Art Gallery Canberra.

Thanks, --Fir0002 01:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks like this one [1]. Yours has got better saturation. MeltBanana 01:53, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! --Fir0002 04:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Very nice Peter, obviously with your proper camera. --hydnjo talk 03:40, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I could take that two ways, but I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt --Fir0002 04:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
A compliment of course.  :-) --hydnjo talk 20:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure this out.....[edit]

My question is: How long is a term for a Supreme Court Justice?

I'm sorry that i'm ignorant and can't find the answer.... please help!

Sincerely, Brielle

I assume you mean the United States Supreme Court, in which case, until death or resignation. — Laura Scudder 01:47, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Or, impeachment.Brian Schlosser42 20:38, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

superintendents use of technology[edit]

Where do I find information about superintendents use of technology and its impact on their role as district level leaders? Thanks T.S.

Do you mean superintendents in terms of school administration? Is this a homework question?--Commander Keane 17:51, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Domain in Medieval Era[edit]

What does domain mean when used with medieval references?

How can someone nominate an author for the Whiting Writers Award?[edit]

See the Whiting Foundation FAQ. --Canley 05:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
In other words, if they don't contact you, you can't nominate someone. Sorry. Superm401 | Talk 00:21, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

fire walk with me[edit]

This quote is associated with Twin Peaks...However, I would like to know where the quote came from

Thru the darkness of future past
The magician longs to see
One chants out between two worlds
Fire walk with me.

  • The passage is actually originally from the Twin Peaks television show, it's not a quote or traditional poem if that's what you mean. The poem was recited by Mike (the one-armed man) in Agent Cooper's dream in the second episode. Laura Palmer's locket was found under the traincar where she was murdered on a pile of dirt with a note reading "FIRE WALK WITH ME". Leland Palmer quotes the poem when he is arrested. --Canley 05:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Homosexuality laws in Africa[edit]


I'm writing in behalf of Behind the Mask, a webbased organisation on LGBTI matters. I found the scale of homosexuality laws in Africa and I'm wondering about some details. For example, for Benin you're writing that laws against homosexuality exist. We assumed that homosexuality is not mentioned in law, except regarding sodomy which is mentioned in law. Do you include sodomy in your scale of laws against homosexuality? Perhaps we're not uptodate; so my other question would be: where do you got all these information of homosexuality laws in Africa? We would be very thankful for any information in order to update our website.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards, Ines Gontek

(formatting fixed by Creidieki 21:55, 2 December 2005 (UTC))

  • Unfortunately, since Wikipedia is not centrally managed, it can sometimes be difficult to find exactly where a piece of information came from. See Who writes Wikipedia for more information on how material is written. If you have a question about the material from a specific article, you're best off asking on the Talk page for that page; you can reach that from the "Discussion" tab at the top of the page. You might also be able to track down the individual user who wrote certain material by looking at the History of the page (tab at the top), and asking on their User Talk page. Ideally, every article should have citations and references, but we still have a long way to go. It sounds like you've found some articles with weaknesses, and constructive comments on the Talk pages are always appreciated. If you have any questions about using Wikipedia, you can ask at Wikipedia:Help desk; good luck on finding the answers to your questions. -- Creidieki 22:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Entitlement to Coats of Arms[edit]

Hello, Can you please tell me in the UK who is entitled to have a coat of arms? I can't find an answer in Wikipedia (but I may be looking in the wrong places). There is some doubt as to whether William Ewart Gladstone had a coat of arms, similarly for Winston Churchill as in wikipedia & commons there are pictures of them. For the former I suspect it is arms of his son (a Viscount) in the latter I don't know but haven't seen any mention in biographies that he had, or was entitled to, a coat of arms. Any help would be much appreciated. AllanHainey 11:46, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

WSC was the grandson of the Duke of Marlborough, so probably had some entitlement to arms though I don't offhand know. It may also be the arms for the Dukedom of London, which WSC was to have been granted but later declined. Shimgray | talk | 11:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
My understanding was that they didn't get arms till they got the title officially, (in any event the Dukedom of London was, according to Roy Jenkins, an honour which was only offered when it was clear he would decline it), I think there is some dispute over this though. I don't think his acceptance of the Dukedom (if he did) got as far as drawing up a coat of arms. As to an entitlement through his grandfather, sons of Dukes get to be called Lord & a few other things, I don't think they get coats of arms & certainly grandsons don't (otherwise there would be millions of them). AllanHainey 12:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
As the younger son of a Duke, wasn't Churchill entitled to bear his father's arms with a differencing label? User:Zoe|(talk) 03:33, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Lord Randolph Churchill, Winston's dad, was the younger son of a duke, not WSC himself. -- Arwel (talk) 02:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Basically, with some simplification, if your family wasn't already using arms by the 17th century, then you need an official grant from the English College of Arms to legitimately bear English arms (of course, Scotland is completely different from England). Arms descend in the paternal line (with some exceptions). You can look at AnonMoos 00:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Paul Revere[edit]

What did Paul Revere say as he rode thru the night? Was it "They're coming?"

The common phrase is, "The redcoats are coming!" However, it is more likely that he yelled nothing. He (and two others) were told to alarm the militia - not alarm everyone, including the nearby British. So, he probably went specifically to the houses of the militia and woke them up. In the end, he was captured at a roadblock and detained (losing his horse) and walked back to join the battle. --Kainaw (talk) 19:15, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I've heard "The British are coming". Superm401 | Talk 00:22, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

And of course any answer to this question should include Longfellow's famous poem.

Not necessarily. Was Longfellow there? Did he hear what Revere actually said? His report is poetical, not historical. JackofOz 02:36, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

About Pharaohs[edit]

Which Pharoah is generally considered to be first? Menes or Narmer? I'm taking Western Civilization CLEP exam December 15, and I was wondering what the general population believed? ;) Thanks in advance! --ViolinGirl 18:56, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

As it says in our Pharaoh article, It is unknown who was the first king of Egypt. It may have been Menes or Narmer. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:36, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Zoe...I looked over the Pharoah answer before asking, and realize what is written there. I was just wondering what the general consensus was...are more people leaning more toward Menes or Narmer?......--ViolinGirl 23:33, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Feces produced by eating nothing but strawberries and water a delicacy?[edit]

I have a vague recollection of reading something online about a (possibly asian?) culture and their choice of desserts. I seem to recall reading of a fecal delicacy that involved feeding a woman nothing but strawberries and water for a prolonged period of time, and serving the feces she produced as a dessert. I can't say I consider this appetizing by any means, so I'd like to satisfy my curiosity instead. Has anyone heard of such a thing, and have links to more information? --Silvaran 19:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't the unfortunate folks who ingested such a concoction have become violently ill as a result of ingesting feces? It seems highly dubious anyone would want to consume such a dish. --Impaciente 20:28, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
See our article on coprophagia. JackofOz 02:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Public Relations terminology[edit]

Hello Wikipedites!

I have come across a couple of public relations terms lately and wonder what they mean. I heard then read a reference to a "matte story" (I think that is how it was spelled) and also the question of how many impressions - when dealing with media coverage.

Can't seem to find what they mean and woud appreciate some guidance!


I think an "impression" is one view of an advertisement. The question is probably how many are needed for someone to easily remember the brand and product, but not become annoyed.Superm401 | Talk 00:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

social studies[edit]

What is Mohenjo-Daro.

Mohenjo-daro was a city in what is now Pakistan. See TheMadBaron 22:14, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

3 December[edit]

English Bill of Rights 1689[edit]

A reader sent the following e-mail message to the Wikipedia Help Desk.

Hey, you guys are really great! I'm a history professor and I really have enjoyed your information about the most historic Bill of Rights, from which many other great documents drew their inspiration. One question remains: where is the original document kept now? The Tower of London? The British Museum? The Houses of Parliament? Any help you can give me on this would be greatly appreciated!

I have posted a copy of this on the Bill of Rights discussion page.

Capitalistroadster 00:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Since the image shown on the page on the Bill of Rights 1689 comes from the UK National Archives, I would think that they have the original document, too. The BBC says it was held at the Parliamentary Archive, in the House of Lords Record Office in the Victoria Tower at Westminster. This is confirmed by searching A2A for "bill of rights", which yields it as the last search result with reference number HL/PO/JO/10/1/417/174, dated November 23, 1689. Lupo 08:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

proselytic relgion[edit]

What is a proselytic religion? Thank you!

One in which the believers actively try to spread their faith. That is what "proselytize" means. Examples of proselytizing religions are Christianity (with some denominations being far more so than others) and Mormonism. A classic example of a non-proselytizing religion is Judaism. alteripse 01:27, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

FOSS geography/cartography editing software recommendations?[edit]

I'm pretty sure geography is more or less humanities, sorry if this isn't the right category otherwise. Anyway, I'm wondering if there's any reasonably powerful freeware, open-source geography editing software out there (preferably for Linux) that is capable of allowing the user to create cartography from scratch (also having geographic data of real life maps would be a nice bonus too); essentially geography software that would both allow for creating detailed, labeled maps of fictional worlds as equally well as it is for working on data for real-life maps. Most importantly, such that it can also discern and associate labels/names with-in defined borders (so if I move anything physical or otherwise representative around, the text won't look displaced afterwards).

Any highly-recommended recommendations for a non-geographer RPG nerd such as myself? (drawing it by hand is not an option... I'm just picky like that) --I am not good at running 00:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Generic Mapping Tools certainly allows folks to make some very impressive maps, although the process is nontrivial. User:Captain_Blood/GMT_Example has an excellent, and very impressive, example. As to creating the dataset yourself (I'm guessing you're talking about making a Narnia/MiddleEarth type deal), there may be a free dataset that some other nerd has already made). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:10, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

9/11 center or databse[edit]

Are any universitoes or organizations planning to put together a comprehensive collection of data and artifacts relating to the events of September 11th? It'd be nice to have a center for those sorts of things. -- 01:58, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a memorial planned for the site of the World Trade Center. See also World Trade Center Memorial for a bit more info. Dismas|(talk) 12:32, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
There is also a September 11 wiki, I haven't checked it out, so I don't know what's it's like. But it should have info on where to find this stuff out. - Akamad 12:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

western civilization[edit]

Try asking a question if Western civilization isn't helpful. --Kainaw (talk) 05:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Graham Greene's Brighton Rock First Edition[edit]

Wikipedis user Peter has posted the following question to the Wikimedia Help Desk.

I am just starting to get into GG's works and am at present reading Brighton Rock. I ache to see the dust wrapper that comes with the first edition book but cannot even find an image of it anywhere on the internet. I wondered if you would have any idea of where I might look. I would be delighted if you could help me.

Thanks for any help you can give him. Capitalistroadster 05:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Response to Question:

The "true" 1st edition of Brighton Rock was published by Viking (U.S.) in June, 1938, followed by Heinemann (U.K.) in July, 1938.

For pictures of dust jackets try: /


Cheerio, Gary Croft Arlington, WA, USA

Acts and Regulations[edit]

I am working on a project about legislation. I need to explain the difference between Acts and Regulations in Canada and how they work together. Can someone assist in providing me with a simple way of explaining this?

Specifically, I'm interested in British Columbia. Thanks in advance for your help.

In the general sense, a regulation is a rule made by a regulatory group. An act is a rule made by a legislative body. I don't see why Canada would be different than anyone else on this. --Kainaw (talk) 02:14, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
The Australian experience is that most laws allow for the making of regulations that relate to how the act is implemented from time to time. This means that the government can decide to change the way a certain law operates in practice, without having to go back to the Parliament for further approval (because the parliament has already given its approval for such regulations to be made). The government needs the Governor-General's approval for the regulations, but since he\she operates on the advice of the Prime Minister, this is usually a given. Most (? all) regulations need to be tabled in the parliament. Some new regulations (including amendments to existing ones) are subject to disallowance by the Senate - this must happen within a specified perid (usually 15 sitting days), otherwise the regulation automatically comes into effect. Cheers JackofOz 02:29, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Things are a bit different in Canada. Parliament, or a provincial legislature, authorizes the actions of the government by passing legislation. In order to give the government more flexibility, Parliament or a legislature can delegate authority to draft certain rules through regulations. This may be done where the rules are going to be very complex, or where the details of a policy are uncertain at the time Parliament/the legislature deals with them. In a province, the delegation of authority can be done either to the "Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council" or to a particular Minister of the Crown. If the authority is delegated to the LGiC, the regulation must be approved by Cabinet, and signed by the Lieutenant-Governor. If it is delegated to a Minister, the regulation must be signed by the Minister concerned. It may then be reviewed by a committee of parliamentarians. If approved, the regulation is then posted in the Gazette, which is the official record of government business. I expect that things are similar at the federal level, substituting the Governor General for the LG. Ground Zero | t 20:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

belly revealing tops[edit]

when did this fashion first appear? is there a name for this form of clothing? when and why did it become socially acceptable to reveal belly (usually along with "rear cleavage"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zzzzz (talkcontribs)

Bellyshirt has some info, I don't know how accurate it is though.--Commander Keane 17:39, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

St. John Chrysostom and pretended ignorance[edit]

St. John Chrysostom read Mark 13:32 as pretended ignorance? Is this true?

Margaret Ferguson.

In Homily on the Prayers of Christ, St. Chrysostom claims that ignorance was claimed only to keep the audience from asking for an answer, not because the answer wasn't known. Therefore, it was a pretended ignorance. He says it is similar to God asking "Where are you?" to Cain. It was not possible for God to not know where Cain was. --Kainaw (talk) 02:24, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
There will of course be different viewpoints on this. My own view would be that for Jesus to say "I don't know" when he does is a lie, which would deny Jesus' perfection. That's not the same as the Cain example above - asking a question to which you know the answer is not lie. I would not interpret the 'oneness of Jesus and the Father as implying that Jesus was omniscient - Jesus was also human, and a property of humanity is non-omniscience. DJ Clayworth 20:27, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Did the Nazis want war at all costs?[edit]

What do you think - Did the Nazis really want war at all costs?

  • Probably they would have been perfectly happy with domination of Europe, disintegration of Russia, disarming of Great Britain and France, displacement of millions of Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks, etc to make room for German expansion, Anschluss of all areas of Europe with German populations... Oh, and let's add elimination of Jews, Bolsheviks, Gypsies, homosexuals and a few other unwanted minorities. Then they would have been willing to concentrate on their mystic ufo program in peace. alteripse 18:19, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
But since it'd be pretty hard to achieve all those goals in any peaceful way, I'm betting that yes, they did want a war :-) Not to mention that Nazism was based on constant dynamism; they probably would have started attacking something else in the event they'd have achieved victory. The Nazis were bad folks. --Impaciente 20:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

As with any country that wishes to be imperial (e.g. US, England, France, Japan,etc) all engaged in warfare. After their lost in WWI, Germany suffered greatly. Employment and inflation were very high esp after the crash of 1929. Socialism/Communism,labor unions were a great threat to the business elites throughout the world. War allows societies to repress its dissidents, moblizies its workforce and of course industries will prosper. However, regarding the Nazis, since they did not raise taxes (to keep the German people content and willing), it probably was necessary for them to continue to conquer and steal wealth.

A.J.P. Taylor is worth reading on this, though by no means definitive. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:01, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

  • If I remember correctly, the film adaptation of the book Der Untergang (about the last days of Hitler) indicates that while Hitler tried to win the war until the last moment, there were several generals who upon knowing loss was imminent didn't want to continue. So in general I don't think all Nazis wanted war at all costs. They had families too and the war was destroying the country. - 09:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Hm. Be careful about conflating Nazis with all Germans, also. Even at the end of WWII, there were German generals who were professional soldiers first; yes, they were doing the bidding of the government, as good soldiers are supposed to do, but they were soldiers and Germans more than they were Nazis. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 17:49, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I think that they wanted VICTORY at all costs, not war at all costs. Mareino 20:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
This is an interesting answer. The fact is that imperial nations want to subjugate their nations without great guerilla warfare and resistance. The Nazis wanted more land to expand their empire. They tried to form a network of Nazi spies and training camps in the United States for example, and wanted to infiltrate the government with their short-lived American Nazi Party, participating in our American political system without any armed struggle. Who actually wants to compete for land or resources? Wouldn't you rather have the United States vote in Nazi leadership than have to come and fight for it? Wouldn't any nation wish that they could subdue a nation or come into a friendly territory and take it over? These questions seem obvious, because war is never fun or easy.
Many of the nations of Europe debated the Nazi's intentions, asking "What does Hitler want? More 'room to breathe'? Does he want to start up a war?" and they concluded that they should appease Hitler because they felt he only wanted some more land, like the Sudentenland, which was a large German area of Czechnoslovakia. Then, he had to take Poland (it wasn't given to him) which was not a largely German populace, demonstrating that he wanted total conquest. So, his intention wasn't "room to breathe" or "living space." Rather, it was domination of Europe. As far as the war question goes, you must remember that no nation really wants to send its soldiers to fight to the death for more land. They would rather that the land was free to settle or that the denizens of the desired land would leave it without a war.
So, they would have loved to continue appeasement and expand without having to work through a war. But, if need be, they knew they would have to fight for Eastern Europe, Western Europe, North Africa, and the Balkans.--Screwball23 talk 21:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
And, to best answer the question, the answer is Hitler wanted to win at all costs. He ordered his soldiers to fight to the last man in the USSR. He wanted to do anything to avoid losing the war and killed himself to put an end to his troubles. He would've hated giving his land and all his territory to the Allies. As far as what the German people wanted or what the Nazis wanted, you can look at different approaches to victory, which were actually slightly different in Germany's legislature; not everyone thought like Hitler. Even among the Nazi followers acting independently, the methods of the spies and Nazi youth camps wanted to achieve victory, but some didn't want war at all costs. Others thought there were other methods out there to pick out and use for victory. If they wanted a war no matter what, they would probably have sped up to war without using the diplomatic tactics they employed early on.--Screwball23 talk 21:53, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Where can I find this poem in Spanish?[edit]

I have been searching, in vain, for the full text of a poem in Spanish. I only remember the first few lines, which are:

De aquel amor guardo siempre, Como reliquia sagrada, Una rosa y un recuerdo, Un suspiro y una lágrima.

Misterios de mi ternura, Guardo lo que nadie guarda.......

Can anyone help me to find the rest? Many thanks.

Tom Garnier -- 18:57, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Have you tried asking at the Spanish Wikipedia? Trying asking the question (in Spanish) at their reference desk. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:09, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

December 4[edit]

trinitarian and non trinitarian churches[edit]

See Trinity, Nontrinitarianism, Unitarianism. DJ Clayworth 20:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Dutch[edit]

Please state a short history and development of the Pennsylvania Dutch language.

See Pennsylvania German language - Nunh-huh 03:23, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


Since the US is so far in debt, is it possible that they could get foreclosed on? 03:46, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The U.S. was in debt from the very beginning. It is a requirement. While the reason isn't in the Constitution, it was explained to me that if the government was forced to operate in debt, it would be more difficult for it to become corupt. Regardless, Congress regularly meets and sets the debt level that the government will work at - increasing it on a regular basis to make up for inflation.
A common mistake is to think a budget profit means that the U.S. is out of debt. For example, Congress had a positive budget in Clinton's last year (which resulted in a very big swing to debt when old bills had to be paid the next year). The U.S. was never out of debt.
As for foreclosure, a country cannot be forced into foreclosure. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank will assist in negotiations between nations and their lenders if necessary. --Kainaw (talk) 03:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
In general, when a country can't (or won't) pay back its loans, it simply defaults. If the U.S. were to do this, there would be some pretty serious consequences for the international financial system, possibly resulting in worldwide depression, but the U.S. govt. would continue on as it was--the govts. it owed money too couldn't just come in and seize the title to the Washington Monument or anything like that. Meelar (talk) 23:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
It is not necessarily a requirement for a country to be in debt, but I can think of case case where it isn't true. The Province of Alberta recently paid off all of its debt, and it doesn't seem to have made much difference to the curroption level. DJ Clayworth 20:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Some countries do operate out of debt: Switzerland, Norway, and Brunai come to mind. In my opinion, corruption is attributed to power, not money. I used to think you needed money to be corrupt, but lack of money with power can cause corruption just as well. I think the hardest thing would be to find a government that isn't corrupt - regardless of national debt. --Kainaw (talk) 20:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Indonesian photos[edit]

Could someone please tell me where the best places to put the following photos I took at the Indonesian Embassy im Australia are? I know the general subject of the photos, but maybe they have more significance than I am aware of. --Fir0002 04:40, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Try Wikimedia commons]. --JWSchmidt 03:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
See gamelan. --Robert Merkel 04:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Sister Maria Faustina[edit]

Who is Sister Maria Faustina?

That would be the Blessed Sister Maria Faustina Kowalska of Divine Mercy. Our article on her is at Faustyna Kowalska. I'll make some redirects. - Nunh-huh 15:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Humans and Emotional Securities[edit]

What is the truth behind wife of Jesus Christ..and why should it affect human psyche?--

The truth on issues like this will never been known, so it seems unlikely to be relevant to anyone but the most fundamentalist of Christians. Shantavira 19:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
It's certainly relevant to Dan Brown's bank manager. smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 20:05, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
As always, the answer to the question depends on the asker. Certainly it would not be unusual for, say, a Jungian psychologist to suggest that in this case the fiction is more true than the facts, or that a patriarchal archetype like Jesus would call its enantiodromic opposite into consciousness, which might take the form of images of Jesus's wife. - Nunh-huh 22:53, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Do you mean 'wife' or 'life'? DJ Clayworth 20:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

1950's rock song[edit]

I recall a song from the mid to late 1950's played on Hartford, CT. rock n' roll radio stations that I believe was titled or contained the lyrics "rockin' on the hardwood floor".

I would like to know if I have recalled the title/lyrics correctly, who the artist was; and was it a local, regional, or national hit? -- 22:41, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

What does piedmont mean[edit]

Our piedmont article explains. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
"Pied" = foot. "Mont" = mountain. "Pied" + "mont" = foothill. -- Mwalcoff 01:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

December 5[edit]

HELP ME!!!!! please!![edit]

I need to find "primary sources" for an assignment in one of my classes. Does any one know where I can find some. An example would be like an eyewitness to an event and their writings describing it. This is on 20th century Pacific Rim States, Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. Help me please!!!

Don't Panic. First you should narrow down what you want to write about - an entire century is a bit much to deal with. Then you can determine what primary documents exist for your subject. (The Treaty of Portsmouth for example, is a primary source which concerns Russia and Japan in 1905, for example). - Nunh-huh 02:31, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm the one asking for help and that treaty is helpful, thank you. I'm supposed to find documents for this prompt like if this were a DBQ on an AP world history exam. I'm also writing a paper along with finding documents and I'm doing that, but if you or anyone else has any ideas as to some documents that would help that would be very, very helplul.

Well, assuming I'm translating the educational jargon correctly, that's a "document based question" on an advanced placement exam. I don't know how that works, because it seems to me if it's an exam they would have to supply you with any documents rather than having you find them. So if you could explain how it works, I might be better able to help. One general source for primary documents would be Yale's Avalon Project, where you can (for this question, for example), click on "20th Century" and get a list of what's available there. You might also want to take a look at this guide.- Nunh-huh 04:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

you're right, on an advanced placement test they would provide you with the doucuments in a document based question. my teacher tends to like us to do more than we would need to do on the AP exam. what I need to do is find resources backing my paper up. Those websites look like they will be very helpful, thanks.

Glad to get you off to a good start. Enjoy your project! - Nunh-huh 02:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Visit a public library. Go to the Reference Desk and tell the librarian on duty what your need is. They will be happy to direct you.
  • While at the library, or on the Internet, check out historical maps of the parts of the world you interested in to see what names were given to various sub-groups of people, and do cursory reading about them.
  • Identify the nations names as used today. Locate and visit their embassies,asking for access to primary sources about their nations that are available to the general world public.
  • Using the data from your overview reading about the history and culture of those nations, where you got the names of sub-groups, seek out immigrant communities whose ancestors used to live there, and may have had more recent immigrants from there. Contact some of those sub-groups (there are thousands) and seek to interview those primary sources.
  • Use Google News and Google Advanced Search to locate Newspapers and News magazine sources in English, that are produced by and for the people of the nations and regions of interest to you. This is an excellent primary source of info from the perspective of what those nations permit their journalists to write.

AlMac|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 02:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Jan van Eyck's Arnolfini Wedding--interpretation by Panofsky[edit]

I don't know how to send information on this article: There is a section about symbolism where a reference is requested. All of the information in that section is from Erwin Panofsky's analysis of this painting, first in a 1934 article and then as a chapter in his 1953 book "Early Netherlandish Painting" ISBN: 006430003X according to Amazon.

--lily_durona @

Unfurl Flag[edit]

Till which year indian Chief Ministers could not unfurl the national flag?

See above and also at India. But why didn't they manage to unfurl it earlier? Had it gotten so badly crumpled and tangled up in the "culmination of this path-breaking struggle"...?? Lupo 10:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC) (Just kidding. Go take a look at India, though.)

This is about the tenth time this question or a slight variant of it has been asked. It's got beyond the point where this can be different people. I suggest we just delete related questions in the future. DJ Clayworth 20:12, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Car Insurance in the United States[edit]

I was recently told that not having any type of car insurance is a violation of federal law. I thought, even though I believe all states require an individual to have some form of car insurance, it was a only state law. Can anyone elaborate on this? Thanks.

I'm pretty confident that it is only a state issue, but I'm not an attorney and I wouldn't know where to look to give you a truly definitive answer. I suppose in DC it could be sticky as to what laws it was under, but in any state, driving and financial responsibility laws requiring insurance are handled by the state. - Taxman Talk 13:54, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
No, not all states require you to have insurance. Wisconsin does not, for example. All states do require you to be able to prove financial responsibility. Meaning that if you get into an accident, you have to be able to prove you can pay the liability. (And the simplest way to do that, is to have insurance). In any case, no it's not a federal law. See, for instance: [[2]] --BluePlatypus 14:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

USA PATRIOT Act, Title II[edit]

All, thanks everyone for being patient with me! I'm currently at the stage where I am documenting the criticism and support for Title II of the USA PATRIOT Act. I am documenting EPIC's concerns (this is pretty easy - they've made their website easy to understand). Now I am looking for more significant commentary (not unnotable people who write blogs - no offense to those people, but we can't document every viewpoint!).

I'm looking for:

  • Notable organisation (the ACLU is one, I know)
  • Law journal articles
  • Senator commentary
  • News commentary
  • Government viewpoints

Please note: I would like to find out about support and criticism!

Can people point me in the right direction? One thing I'd like to note is that I'm actually finding the ACLU website hideous to navigate... - Ta bu shi da yu 13:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Anyone?! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
A trip to a local law library could get you started. Their reference librarians are very good at showing you how to find information, especially if you go at an off peak time. Even down under you should be able to access law journal articles and enought to get started to find published NGO viewpoints, etc. Or see if you can ask an attorney. Some Wikipedians are attorneys, though I won't out them here in public :). - Taxman Talk 15:21, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

an old law[edit]

i am looking for information about an old law that specifies that in a certain part of Britain it is still ok to shoot a scotish man with a bow and arrow. I am trying to prove to a friend that this law --Heathery 15:11, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I've heard of this one, I think it is York or possibly Newcastle, though it may not be. Speaking as a Scot I would urge you not to put your legal rights into practice, wherever it is.AllanHainey 16:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I should have said it is, as far as I can recollect, only a city by-law specific to one city & has probably been superceded by national laws against murder. AllanHainey 16:29, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
In fact, it's a law of Chester which states that it is only permissable to kill a Welshman within the city walls, after sunset, and with a bow and arrows.... and AllanHainey is quite right, these days it would never hold up in court. TheMadBaron 17:30, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
As a Welshman who lives near Chester, I am very pleased to hear this! -- Arwel (talk) 21:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I beleive that there is also a similar law regarding Scotsmen in York and Welshmen in Cathedral Close, Hereford (but only on a Sunday). I vaugely recall something similar regading the Scots in Lincoln as well, but I'm not 100% certain I'm not imagining this. I seriously doubt that these would stand up in court these days. The tour guide we had when I was in Chester a couple of years ago mentioned something about the limit of legal memory(?), but I don't remember what exactly he said. Thryduulf 02:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

life for germans after ww1[edit]

i'm doing this projact and i need to find out what life was like for german women and children after the surrender of the first world war i've checked ask jeeves and it won't tell me plz help

Have a read of our articles aftermath of World War I and post-WWI recession. You'll also find a useful infobox at the bottom of the World War I article. You may also like to read the Treaty of Versailles article for the terms placed upon Germany after the war. --Gareth Hughes 17:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Orange Flavor Chicken + Pig's Blood / Nullaby[edit]

In Sichuan cuisine is there an orange chicken dish prepaired with coagulated pigs blood? My question is basically, is the article orange flavor chicken (as opposed to orange chicken) accurate? While I can find references to pig's blood being used in food in various parts of the world, including china, I can't find anything on this particular dish, or the "Xu Bird" the author mentions as an alternative to chicken.

And related to this, in that it was written by the same anonymous user, are there any culteral traditions which include the Nullaby? Its given to be an "anti-lullaby" meant to "keep away the eternal sleep of death." The only reference I can find for this is an indy rock song by Denali. thnx.Jasongetsdown 18:52, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

kenneset, israeli parliament[edit]

See Knesset. DJ Clayworth 20:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Coinage of the British Empire[edit]

As places became part of the british empire, they would have their own system of money with coins unique to that country, but they still had a picture of the current british monarch (for example, India). Were the coins of the british empire minted in the area they were to be used, or were they all minted in Great Britain and then shipped to where they were to be used? --KForce(talk) 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Australian currency#Issues of currency indicates that in Australia we used the British currency, minted in Britain and then shipped over, until we got our own mints up and running. --Commander Keane 21:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Initially, and for the smaller colonies, they'd have been produced in Britain, but eventually mints were set up in Sydney and Perth, Australia; Ottawa, Canada; Bombay, India; and Pretoria, South Africa. -- Arwel (talk) 21:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Don't forget that the current British monarch was usually the current local monarch as well, and was appearing on the coins in the latter capacity. - Nunh-huh 02:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

December 6[edit]

Is dishonesty an inherent human trait?[edit]

It seems to be an inherent animal trait. The extrapolation to humans is left as an exercise for the reader (but every parent knows the answer). alteripse 01:35, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

  • The real question comes down to exactly what "honesty" is supposed to mean. I find it hard to believe that anything that can make decisions about possible outcomes of scenarios would always take the road defined by ethicists as fully honest. Even generally honest people are often dishonest for the sake of social conventions. "Yes, your baby boy is... just charming, I swear." --Fastfission 04:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
    • So are you one of those people who think, "he looks less like Winston Churchill than most" is an appropriate compliment? alteripse 04:27, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
    • It would be difficult for dishonesty of all things to have evolved. Suppose an individual was dishonest all the time and became like the boy who cried wolf. Finally, society would turn away from deceptive individuals and wouldn't want to have them around. The matter, in my mind, is a philosophic question, asking "What is human nature?" instead of asking "why is there dishonesty in the world?"--Screwball23 talk 21:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Will to survive is an inherent human trait. An honest act or a dishonest one is judged based on situations. One who betrays a comrade during interrogation is an honest person (as he is telling the truth) or a turncoat (as he is betraying the trust) depending on who is judging him--Tachs 08:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Don't forget that your article demonstrating dishonesty as an inherent animal trait might be itself biased, misleading, or otherwise scientifically dubious. For example, you should be worried about unintentional anthropomorphism by the author. Mareino 17:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I have 2 opinions on this question. (1) Creating such concepts as "honesty" and "dishonesty" is an inherently human trait, because the evidence is superabundant that humans have done so. (2) Whether humans themselves are inherently honest or otherwise is an unanswerable question. JackofOz 02:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

First meta-acting[edit]

What is the first known play in which an actor plays a character who is also an actor? —Keenan Pepper 02:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

While not a complete answer to your question, the "Play within a play" section of Story within a story suggests that the first known play in which another play appears is The Spanish Tragedy by Thomas Kyd in 1587. Chuck 03:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Okay, we have something from the 1580s. Anything earlier (maybe classical)? —Keenan Pepper 18:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
You could make an argument for The Clouds by Aristophanes as being the first self-referential play, which is a similar idea. There is a scene in it where the "Leader of the Chorus" addresses the audience directly as the playwright. Crypticfirefly 06:01, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


What's the question?--Aolanonawanabe 03:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC) what id due??? sukka

18th century Italian history[edit]

See History of Italy and/or ask a specific question. Thryduulf 10:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Horns Of Consecration[edit]

What are the horns of Consecration? Is it a minoan symbol? what does it mean? who gave it that name?

  • Perhaps an imitation of the double peak on Mt. Jukus, the "horns of consecration" (given that name by Arthur Evans) are a prevalent theme in the architecture at Knossos. Whether the horns represent the mountain (which had an important sanctuary on its peak) or not, it is impossible to deny the resemblance to the horns of a bull, which appears as an important creature in other Minoan art and Religion. There is evidence suggesting that these horns adorned the top of many of the architectural structures of the palace, including the central court (where the bull-leaping was believed to have occured). [3] --Yardan \ Talk

Christopher Columbus and sea monsters[edit]

Didn't Christopher Columbus encounter opposition to his plan to sail to the "Indies" based on the idea that the Atlantic was infested with sea monsters? How long were Atlantic sea monster myths held to be true? I really need to get this confirmed or denied for the article on Himilco the Navigator, as he originated some of the accounts of sea monsters. I'm wondering how long people believed Himilco the Navigator, if it all. During Columbus' time, would no one be worried about sea monsters? I was going to write in Himilco the Navigator that his myths stood until Columbus and others shattered them, but I won't post til I can verify this. I posted the issue to Talk:Christopher Columbus but they are too busy flaming each other to reply. Please help.

  • There is a referance to this here, here and here. Hope some of them contain what your looking for. (CTRL+F and search for 'monsters' will make it easier to find the specific content in the texts.) --Yardan \ Talk


Please re-post with a specific question. Or, call your state's or nation's bar association; most have a free referral service that will find you a lawyer who can help.Mareino 17:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Who was Paule Maurice?[edit]

Hello. I've been searching the internet extensively, and have found practically nothing in regards to her (Paule Maurice) biography. As a great woman composer for the saxophone, I find it rather odd that, although she died not too long ago (1967), the internet does not contain a substantial amount of information pertaining to her. She was a very influential french composer, who worked with the likes of Marcel Mule. Is there anything else regarding her life? I am intrigued by her composition "Tableaux de Provence" after playing it. I would like to know more about this great composer. If Wikipedia could help in this regard, I'm sure many saxophonists (including myself) would greatly appreciate it. Could you please help?

Thank you very much.

--Michael Landry

First consider the spelling might be different, so we may actually have an article, but if the internet doesn't know about her you'll have to find other written material. You seem to know the basics, so look for newspaper articles or books that might cover her. After you find some information, please write an article for us. - Taxman Talk 20:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
She gets a lot of Google hits (including a website with her correspondence). The spelling seems to be consistent. I've started an article based on her 1960 biographical notes (see Paule Maurice), so let's hope it grows. I might write something about her husband, Pierre Lantier over the next couple of days. TheMadBaron 21:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

why do carolers in I reland blacken their faces?[edit]

Perhaps, like mummers, it's to make themselves unrecognisable.

Pope John Paul II Illness/Death[edit]

The recently deceased Pope had a variety of health problems including arthritic joint disease that are associated with Hemochromatosis--iron overload disorder. In 1985 I read an international edition of Time (Newsweek?) that said that the Pope had refused the usual treatment of a condition he had that required bloodletting (phlebotomies)on the grounds that a Pope could not have his blood taken for that purpose. Does anyone have any information as to whether the Pope had a diagnosis of Hemochromatosis? (posted by

According to this page, having hemochromatosis puts one at greater risk for getting Parkinson's Disease, which we know John Paul II had. --zenohockey 04:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


Is it possible anywhere on the Internet to find a recording of John Lennon's song Imagine with both the melody and the lyrics? Thanks, anon.

iTunes? --Diderot 21:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Your actually talking abot the song itself? Download Limewire and download the song? *runs & hides* --Yardan 21:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC) \ Talk

I am very doubtfull that you can get it legally on the web. I doubt even iTunes would have it since there is a long running legal battle between Apple (the computer company) and Apple Corps (The Beatles' company). - Akamad 08:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Lady Justice[edit]

Why does she wear a blindfold? It seems rather ironic that justice should be "blind". -- Natalinasmpf 22:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I think this is the third time this year we have answered this question. Because she is supposed to be blind to who the parties are, blind to wealth, influence, etc, concerned only with accurately weighing the merits of the two sides in the scales of justice. alteripse 23:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
In the documentary The Thin Blue Line by Errol Morris the murderer David Ray Harris, who had managed to pin his crime on someone else, said she wears a blindfold so that she doesn't have to see what is going on in the backrooms of the courthouse. David Sneek 06:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Rap song about computing[edit]

Does anyone know the title and artist of a rap song about computing? It is an old-schoolish type rap, and I feel like it was recorded in the late 1990's because the singer makes references to an OS from that era like Windows 97. Microprocessors, megahertz, the guy was upgrading his OS, all that stuff. If it helps, I heard it on a show called the Hip Hop Project on WLUW FM 88.7 Chicago on November 26, 2005, around 10:00 p.m. Thank you. 22:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)Weber

There's a whole genre of rap songs about computing - try the Nerdcore hip hop article for some links that may help. Natgoo 22:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
It sounds like "It's All About the Pentiums" by Weird Al Yancovic. --Kainaw (talk) 22:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
You may also find contacting the radio station and asking to be a good way to solve the problem. TERdON 12:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, I believe he was looking for the group "Deltron 3030 (album)". It's a futuristic rap album about computers/viruses /and sci-fi battles. See if the songs "Virus" or "3030" were the songs you were looking for. --User:demuth
i hope the person who asked the question comes back and says if this helped, personally i had to think about weird al at once. Boneyard 13:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Historical (or ancient) development of a system of writing[edit]

In what part of the world did people first develop a system of writing and approximnately when did that happen (what year)?

See Writing and the articles linked from it. I haven't read it in detail but it appears from a glance that writing was developed in Mesopotamia in the 4th millennium BC and the first written language was Sumarian. Thryduulf 22:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
That would be Sumerian with an 'e'. - Mgm|(talk) 10:05, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The oldest piece of writing on my desk as I type this is a Sumerian clay tablet (just a piece of one). I must be more diligent in cleaning out my in-box.-Mr Adequate 22:40, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
According to Derrida, all language is writing because it tears the signifiant away from its bond to the signifé to create a persistent text. But you means scratching marks on stuff. It depends - the use of systematic marking as a memory aid was clearly the origin of writing in some cultures and may have been the origin in Mesopotamia as well. You might also take a look at Writing system#History of writing systems. There is some debate about exactly at what point a semiotic scheme becomes a writing system, and which systems of inscriptions might and might not qualify. Early Sumerian or even Mesepotamian origin is not uncontested, and it's probably impossible to be certain. --Diderot 22:55, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

references for the " east west " concept[edit]

i need refrences for the history of the concept of the ' east ' , i need them urgently , i wonder why the writers of the articles dont list their refrences ?

Are you asking about the concept in geography of our planet where one dimension is North South and another is East West, and you want to find out from the history of Geography who invented that concept?
Or are you asking about the political cultureal concept where Asia is thought of as being the East, or Eastern Culture, while Western Europe and the Americas is considered to be Western Civilization. I think that concept goes back at least to Marco Polo.

AlMac|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:02, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

December 7[edit]

Questions about Cultural Customs of Gabon?[edit]

Hi! I am in Middle School and need help finding 5 cultural customs used in Gabon. And what is the most popular sport. Help on finding more information would be appreciated.

-- 00:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi! Are you the same person who asked about a recipe for food from Gabon? How did that go?
We are still lacking an article on Culture of Gabon (which you are heartily encouraged to write), but we do have articles on specific things. I would definitely include the religious use of the hallucinogenic Iboga plant in Bwiti. I am pretty sure the most popular sport is football (soccer). Also see Music of Gabon and List of Gabon-related topics. —Keenan Pepper 00:51, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

President Franklin[edit]

Why wasn't Ben Franklin ever President?

Because George Washington was chosen first, and served until 1797, by which time Benjamin Franklin had been dead for seven years? - Nunh-huh 01:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
As for why he didn't run against Washington, aside from the political futility there was his age -- at the time of Washington's election, Franklin (born 1706) was already in his eighties. JamesMLane 01:21, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Would he have won an election? While he was well known, he wasn't well liked. Many of his requests were voted down by everyone else. --Kainaw (talk) 15:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

any information re: Jack Wolfgang Beck of New York[edit]

  • Try searching the web first. Then you will get results like this [4] --Tachs 07:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

filipino violinst[edit]

Can I have complete information on filipino violinist chino gutierrez? Thanks

The article seems to have been deleted: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joaquin Ma. Gutierrez, although he might be more notable now. His real name is "Joaquin Maria Gutierrez", which might get you further in search engines. —Keenan Pepper 08:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Full name apparently "Joaquin Maria Sebastian Gutierrez", nicknamed "Chino". Even searching for "Chino Gutierrez" gives a couple of links. For starters, try these: [5], [6], [7]. Didn't we recently have a question about a photo, where he turned out to be the depicted subject (shown during his studies at Munich, Germany)? Lupo 08:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The deleted article gave "Joaquin Maria Fernando Sebastian Gutierrez" as the full name. I'll have to read it to make up my mind whether that's a candidate for undeletion. Lupo 08:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The old reference desk question about the image is here. Lupo 09:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The deleted article is on WP:VFU now. Lupo 09:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Spam in Hawaii[edit]

Why do Hawaiians eat so much SPAM? I read through the SPAM and Hawaiian cuisine articles and didn't find any particular reason.

  • Where did you get that idea in the first place? - Mgm|(talk) 10:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, both the Spam and Cuisine of Hawaii articles mention a link between Hawaiian's and spam. From the former:
In the United States, the residents of the state of Hawaii and the territory of Guam consume the most Spam per capita
I'd hazard a guess that it's because of island induced isolation. It's a lot cheaper to send canned spam out to an island, rather than pigs, so spam will be inherently popular. Once established a food can become culturally entrenched (eg meat pies in Australia). Just a guess.--Commander Keane 12:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
In Hawaii (before mass shipping by aircraft), meat was limited. You had fish and ham. Ham spoils quickly. So, to preserve it, it was commonly caked with salt and and pineapple slices. You ended up with a salty sweet ham. Spam came out as a salty sweet ham - much cheaper than getting a ham and preparing it yourself. In the end, Spam is a perfect fit for the Hawaiian taste. --Kainaw (talk) 14:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I think the connection began around World War II, when the Hawaiians suddenly had too large of a population to feed without exports, but faced severe wartime restrictions on imports because of naval warfare. Ironically, you can find lots of memoirs from soliders complaining about eating spam, which is why it sold so poorly in the Continental U.S. and Europe as soon as supplies of fresh meat returned. Mareino 21:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The Right Stuff[edit]

What role did the Right Stuff have on the early American space program?

Read it. I liked it best of Tom Wolfe's books. alteripse 10:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

But as to the question, The Right Stuff was written long after the "early space program", being released many years after the Mercury program that it described was completed. As to the effect that "the Right Stuff", the concept that lent its name to the book title, had on the program, it resulted in much more control being handed to the human pilots to satisfy their ego than was actually necessary for the missions. Like Alteripse says, read the book. --Robert Merkel 12:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Which Carlyle?[edit]

The Satanic School article refers to an opinion of Carlyle, but does anyone know whether it is Thomas Carlyle or Alexander Carlyle? --Spondoolicks 11:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Thomas, from the Sartor Resartus. Filiocht | The kettle's on 11:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
It's Thomas - I've dabbed the link in the article. Natgoo 11:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

christmas gifts for a super max prisoner[edit]

i have a brother in a super max prison in florence,colorado and i would like to send a christmas present to him--what is allowed? thank you

  • I'm sure the local prison staff can tell you in detail. You could try asking them. - 13:35, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I presume the prison you refer to is this one. The regulations with regards to sending him things appear to be very strict; this page has a list of policies pertaining to the prison, and the policy on "Inmate personal property" (it's there on the list) states that you basically can't send parcels of goods to a prisoner until they are within 30 days of release (and if your brother is in that facility I don't imagine his release date is any time soon). You can, however, send them letters and personal photos, as well as money with which they can buy goods. But I suggest you read the policy yourself carefully, to make sure anything you do send gets through to your brother.
If you want further information, there are a number of ways you could probably go. One is to contact the prison directly for information on this topic; their contact details are on the webpage. However, without being too cynical, it's possible that their interests are in making the prison easy to manage rather than ensuring your brother can get everything he is entitled to, so I'd certainly try to check what they tell you against the written policy, particularly if the answer is "no you can't do that". Also, this page lists some resources for family members of prison inmates; there may be people there who know their way around the prison system and exactly what rights you and your brother have and how to utilize them to the fullest. If it comes to the stage where you get into a dispute with the prison system about what you're entitled to do, it's also possible that the ACLU might be of assistance.
I hope you are able to bring a little Christmas cheer to your brother, whatever his reasons for being incarcerated are.--Robert Merkel 13:36, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

My brother just got out of prison in Oregon and gifts of any kind were NOT allowed except books mailed directly from the book store (like Barnes and Noble) You have to pay more to have it shipped from the book store - and ONLY books could be sent. What I was able to do is send him money on his account - you are not allowed to send it directly to him - but must go through the account channels. Then he can buy the pproducts that are available to him in prison that make his life a bit nicer. like candy and sodas or even food items other than prison food. I pray that your brother finds peace and that yoy are able to bring him a bit of Christmas cheer during the holidays by letting him know how much he is loved. ~Maria

Have a bible sent to him & tell him to repent his evil ways or meet with the fires of hell. jp

herr drosselmeyer[edit]

dear sir or madam, my son was asked a trivia question for extra credit. what is the first name of the benevolent godfather in the nutcracker. i could only find him listed as herr drosselmeyer. i am very obliged. (E-mail removed.)

Well, to find it out, you'd have to read the tale! There's E.T.A. Hoffmann's German original version, and Alexandre Dumas' French adaptation. Only the German version really gives his first names away; in the French version, there's just a character named Drosselmayer who tells a story to children in which incidentally a character named Drosselmayer appears... The same story-within-a-story also exists in Hoffmann's version, but there the author makes it clear that Drosselmeier's first names are the same as those of the Drosselmeier appearing in the story Drosselmeier tells. Confused? Hint: his initials are C. E. Oh, and BTW: note the difference in spelling between Hoffmann and Dumas. Lupo 14:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Buddhism & Christmas[edit]

I am getting ready to send out Holiday Cards. I am Christian, but since I have several friends who are Jewish, I have chosen a card which reads "Holiday Season" instead of "Christmas". My question is, is there a Buddhist holdiay around this time? Should I send a holiday card to my buddhist friend? If so, how should i wish her a happy holiday season?

Thanks so much!

Try this. Filiocht | The kettle's on 13:47, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

You apparently haven't seen the Simpsons episode in which Lisa becomes Buddhist and Richard Gere explains that while Buddhists do not celebrate Christmans or Hannukah, they accept and enjoy the happiness and good will of the holiday season. If it was on the Simpsons, it must be true. --Kainaw (talk) 15:01, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I think someone would have to be seriously strict not to enjoy the expression even if they don't celebrate the holiday. For example if there happened to be a tradition of sending out cards for Eid ul-Fitr, I certainly wouldn't be offended if I got one from a Muslim friend even though I'm not Muslim. I would just take it as being included in a part of their tradition and celebration. That said, I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are touchy about holidays, but I'm not sure if they would be offended either. Then again, you never know what might offend some people. - Taxman Talk 15:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Several online greeting cards sites offer Eid ul-Fitr cards, I don't know if this is a tradition of the holiday or just the sites' attempt at capitalizing. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:58, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Strange enough, I can't find a single Buddhist holiday listed on Wikipedia. I don't know what holidays they celebrate, but it might just vary from culture to culture. Try looking into the ethnic background of your friends and maybe you'll find some good holidays to celebrate with them. I would like to know what Buddhist religious holidays exist, however...--Screwball23 talk 17:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Try looking at [8]. I wonder if there are any tantric holidays? For a great tantric orgy, I'd gladly be a Buddhist for a day. --Kainaw (talk) 20:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Vesak is the biggest holy-day in Buddhism, which occurs in May. As a Buddhist, I am very happy to receive Christmas cards from my Christian friends. - Akamad 07:29, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
There are no Buddhist holidays, as such, at this time of year; the only holidays in Buddhist countries (other than those which are specific to an individual country) are New Years Eve and New Years day. Christmas is observed, though not as a holiday [9]. Christmas decorations are in evidence in the malls, but cards and gifts are not traditionally exchanged. TheMadBaron 16:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Thank goodness the "Happy Holidays" cards are seldom seen on the UK side of the pond. If anyone is going to be offended by receiving Christmas or Hannakuh greetings (and I have personally yet to meet one from any faith appart from Jehovah's Witnesses) stick to a Happy New Year Card. "Happy Holiday Season" screams desperation to be PC Dainamo 00:45, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Error in History of Poland: Images in Partitions article[edit]


In the help section, I couldn't find info about how to report an error, so I'm using these means. The borders of Austria shown on maps of the Partitions of Poland are incorrect for the second half of the eighteenth century. E.g.: the Silesia region was at that time part of Prussia, not Austria. Silesia passed from Austria to Prussia in 1742, after the war of Austrian succession.

Sincerely, Piotr

This is a wiki. If you see an error, correct it. The error you are mentioning is an image. Do you have a correct image you can upload? --Kainaw (talk) 15:03, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Be sure to produce some reliable sources to back up your claim so people can check it. - Mgm|(talk) 09:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, if you have an error (or suspected error) related to a particular article, a good place to bring it up is on the talk page for that specific article. Chuck 17:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

autonomous religions[edit]

can you tell me the names of some autonomous religions? thank you!

What does it mean for a religion to be autonomous? —Keenan Pepper 07:32, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I can't think of any subordinant religions...Brian Schlosser42 21:06, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

David Cameron[edit]

How appealing to the public is Mr. Cameron? Unlike his last three predecesors is likely to become prime minister anytime soon.

Only time will tell, but he will not become prime minister before the next general election, which is very unlikely to happen before about May 2009. Thryduulf 23:26, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
NB spelling mistake corrected and heading linked. David | Talk 23:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
David Cameron is not particularly appealing to the British public in general, being a rather snobby public schoolboy who gives the impression of trying too hard to be 'cool'. But he is extremely appealing to the upper-middle class, who make the decision on who leads the Conservatives. The Conservatives would have been better placed to win the next election with David Davies or Kenneth Clarke, but one was too 'common' (Davies, who is from a working class background and actually served in the territorial SAS), and the other too pro-Europe. I would suggest that Cameron won't even be in charge of the Conservatives by the 2009 election, but if he is, they won't win (he's just too posh to win back the number of working-class areas the Tories would need to regain control). Proto t c 14:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


Stalin - given his foreign and domestic policy was he a genuine revolutionary or a pragmatist?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)


hello, please to say difference with socialism and national socialism, thank you very much.

Have you read our socialism and national socialism articles? Thryduulf 23:24, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

His general motivations seem more his personal power than any ideology

Movie character deaths[edit]

Has anyone put together a list of actors and actresses who died after their final film, in which their final character also died?

Not an answer, but a thought: every dead actor died after their final film.... - Nunh-huh 03:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Also not an answer, but I believe there've been instances in which an actor died after a film was shot but before it was released, and so died before his or her final film rather than after. Anyway, my guess is that the questioner might mean "immediately after" or "soon after" -- close enough in time so that the deaths of the character and the actor seem eerily coincidental. JamesMLane 16:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
There are also occasions when an actor has died during the filming, e.g. Oliver Reed died while filming Gladiator. Thryduulf 18:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
In television, on the recent show 8 Simple rules, John Ritter's character was deceased in the show following his death.
Brandon Lee's death during the filming of The Crow, in which he plays someone resurrected after his murder is certainly one of the weirder ones. Guettarda 21:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


Why was Jesus crucifed?

Do you want a historical explanation (as to why some people at the time might have seen him as a threat), or a theological/Christological explanation? AnonMoos 23:50, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

As an aside, read the chapter about Jesus/Messiahs in Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches : The Riddles of Culture (ISBN 0679724680) by Marvin Harris. 21:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Pretty much everyone agrees, even non-Christians, that he was crucified for teaching a new religion, which means he committed the crime of heresy. Why that was such a big deal is a matter of debate. If you want the official Christian response, pick up a Bible. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all kill off the Son of Man just a couple pages before the end, with very passionate narratives that make it pretty clear who (weak-willed Roman rulers and jealous rival rabbis) is responsible for Jesus's death, and why (because his followers treated him as the Son of God). Mareino 21:55, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Paul taught a new religion. Jesus spoke out against the existing religion and gave teachings about how people should behave. There is no teaching in the Bible about Jesus building churches, hiring preachers, assigning deacons, taking tithes, having bingo night on Saturday... --Kainaw (talk) 17:47, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Jesus died to bring mankind back to God not to start a new religion. --Jcw69 18:39, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I find the question interesting in light of my interest in logic, about which I have my own question a little further down the page. So much of this question is context sensitive it is amazing to see the quick answers relating to biblical teaching that were posted: Jealousy, crowd-control, etc., etc. And yet, the question might easily be seen as WHY was Jesus crucified, Why was JESUS crucified and Why was Jesus CRUCIFIED, with different answers for each. If the last emphasis is the intended one, the issue is to evaluate being crucified as opposed to being stoned, beheaded, hanged, or killed by any other means. I believe the method of choice for the Jews would have been stoning, while crucifixion was the standard method of the "civilized" (Roman) world where there was also a desire to have a public reminder visible for some days. It suggests a mixed message on the part of the Romans, who were not above taking well-known subversives and, having killed them by any means, dismembering their bodies and leaving them displayed until the remains rotted.

December 8[edit]

dietary restrictions of certain Thai-Chinese religion[edit]

I seem to recall a certain religion popular among Thai-Chinese women that involved a dietary restriction on eating beef. I'm thinking that Kuanyin may be what I'm thinking of, but the article didn't mention anything about not eating beef. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? --Pravit 05:31, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Many Buddhists are vegetarian in general... —Keenan Pepper 18:00, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Origin of music notation[edit]


when was the tennis originated?

According to our article on tennis, it started around the mid 19th century, possibly 1874. You do know how to search for articles, don't you? (type "tennis" into the Search box on the left side, and click on "go"). — QuantumEleven | (talk) 08:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, but court tennis dates to the Middle Ages. -- 16:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Francisco Gerau[edit]

Hi, I'm searching for information about the Spanish Baroque composer Francisco Gerau, but I can't find anything at all. Can somebody help me? Just a few major facts are ok. I haven't found anything in Wikipedia, nor elsewhere on the Internet (apart of two site mentioning nothing more than his existence). Does somebody have other sources? Thanks. David Da Vit 10:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

That's the one indeed. Thanks a lot. David Da Vit 17:24, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

first artist[edit]

who is considered as the first artist in history of this world?

  • Some anonymous African artist Filiocht | The kettle's on 14:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
  • So drawings by cave men don't count? AlMac|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:05, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
  • No one can possibly know. What is art? What is history? What is this world? ;). However, as AlMac suggests, the drawings on prehistoric caves are certainly among the earliest known. Halcatalyst 03:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
  • The very first artist? How about "In the beginning God created heaven, and earth." Ojw 13:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


When taught this game as children, we used a rule that meant a capturing piece was frozen on taking the opponent's blot. For example, if a three and a four were thrown and the piece captured on four, it could not move the other three and another would be moved instead. Quite interesting to the game-play, often focricng the capturing piece to be open to attack unless another can cover it, BUT it is nowhere in any official rules I have read. Does any one know of the origin of this rule or, if not, at played it at any time?. I doubt it was simply made up by the person who taught me and must have been a variant. Dainamo 15:11, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Odest American colleges and universities[edit]

There seems to be a flaw in your system. The following simple factual question is not answered: List of oldest American colleges and universities. Neither is, Ten oldest American colleges and universities.

Partly, this is because it isn't a simple factual question - it depends how you define "oldest" (and, indeed, how you define "colleges and universities"). However, have a look at Colonial colleges. Shimgray | talk | 16:24, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that that isn't even a question at all. Questions end with question marks and begin with words like what, where, when, why, who and how.--Goshawk 12:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Are you sure that this is covers all types of questions? ;) Flag of Europe and Austria.svg ナイトスタリオン 12:14, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I was but not any more!--Goshawk 17:25, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Can?, did?, may?, will?, has?, shall?, should?, could?, does?, is?... On a side note, I love the attitude expressed in the question/demand: "I want you to do my work for me, AND I'm going to be rude about it AND I'm going to gripe when you don't jump when I say frog AND I'm going to slam the very purpose of your service! Brian Schlosser42 21:19, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Exactly. I know we're not supposed to bite the newcomers but if there going to be rude i say get chomping! oh and i've just thought of two others would and if. I guess that puts me in my place!--Goshawk 11:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Book throwing in the canadian parliamant[edit]

Not sure if anybody can help. I'm looking for the name of the Canadian MP that threw a lawbook (you know these things named by color?) on the floor of the commons while in session. Can anybody help? Circeus 16:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Converting US GPA to Canadian Percentage[edit]

I received an undergraduate degree in the United States, and one of the graduate schools I'm applying to is in Canada. I received a 3.71 GPA (on a 4.0 scale) in undergraduate. The Canadian college, however, is asking for a percentage average. My college didn't have a policy on what percentages corresponded to which grades; it varied wildly between classes, and some classes didn't use percentages at all. Do they just want me to report 3.71/4.0 = 92.75%? Or is there a conversion scale? I couldn't find any information on this at Grade (education). -- Creidieki 19:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

  • The 100% guaranteed method of success is to call your desired school's department of admissions tomorrow morning.Mareino 22:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
We had a discussion about this here on the Miscellaneous reference desk. Basically each college (even within the USA) chooses their own GPA scoring system, so it's only an indication. Follow Mareino's advice.
I would call the Canadian university. I'm sure they've had this issue come up before. I worked at a Canadian university, and we used grades, not percentages. -- Mwalcoff 23:13, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


I have tried to find out what information is needed on a petition to the Candian Government. Can you tell me what info I would need for a signed paper petition? Thank-you very much.

There is, as far as I know, no legally defined procedure for presenting petitions, since the government is not obliged to pay any attention to them. On the assumption that you want notice to be taken of your petition, you should probably include the name, address and signature of everyone petitioning. DJ Clayworth 02:56, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
You are incorrect. There is in fact a very specific procedure to follow if you intend for a petition to be presented in Parliament. See here: If you have more than 25 signatures, you should be sending it to your MP so that (s)he can present it to the House during the allotted time for petitions. --Comics 13:45, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Bush at Harvard[edit]

Everyone has heard that George W. Bush got C's at Yale. But how did he do academically during the time he studied for his MBA at Harvard? Halcatalyst 21:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I wondered that too when I found out he went to Harvard for a business degree. According to [[11]], Bush's lowest marks back in Yale were a 70 (of 100) in Sociology and a 71 in Economics, while his highest scores were High Passes in History and Japanese. Economics is an important subject for business, so I'm not sure how he could have accomplished well in Harvard with a weakness in that course. I don't know how he did in his MBA program, but if you look at his business sense, you might want to look into how he ran Texas's economy or his baseball team and see how good he was at business in the real world, which is very different from college. And I've looked for the MBA grades; since his Yale grades were confidential, his MBA grades may not even have been released yet. Hey, don't be discouraged; maybe you can look into it and find out what his grades were.--Screwball23 talk 04:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


While I was wikifying the article about the Buffalo Bayou, Brazos, and Colorado Railway, I came across this sentence: "After the Civil War and foreclosure, the charter was amended." This is obviously a reference to the American Civil War, but I was wondering if the term foreclosure has a specific meaning in relation to that period of American history, or whether it is the usual meaning (i.e. that the railway company's ceditors sold its property (presumably the railway itself) to cover unpaid debts.) Thanks, AJR | Talk 23:31, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

  • "Foreclosure" hasn't changed meaning. In this case it means that the Buffalo Bayou, Brazos, and Colorado Railway went bankrupt (the bank foreclosed) and the railroad assets were bought and reorganized into the new railroad company. Halcatalyst 03:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Headline text[edit]

Bold text

December 9[edit]

Anyone can help me find the details about "intermediate punishment", please?[edit]

This site provides some info. If you google "intermediate punishment", you'll get plenty of info. - Akamad 23:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Jerusalem site[edit]

Please people who live in Jerusalem or travelled there. I need to know the Jewish name for St.Mary's well, or Fountain, right outside the Old city wall. What does it sound, and the spelling, too. It also would be very good to know the Russian transcription for it. Thank you!

Do you mean the Hebrew-language name? I have a fairly large-scale map of Jerusalem with some Hebrew and Arabic annotations here, and I don't see any such place. Do you mean the Tomb of the Virgin Mary, or the Dormition Church/Abbey? AnonMoos 16:54, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I need both the Hebrew name and the Arabic one. On Jewish maps of Jerusalem you'd find it as Gihon spring. But it is also known as a tourist site by some other name (Arabic) which in translation means Virgin Mary's well/spring. It might sound like Aim-Sitti-Maryam, or Aim-ed-Daraj, or the like. Thank you.

socialsim and conservatism[edit]

What's the similarites and differences between socialism and conservatism? --- 14:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like an essay question, but read the articles I just linked for you, and any related ones they link to that you need. Then read the source the article cites as needed. - Taxman Talk 15:00, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

can anyone understand the other person, for example her friend[edit]

can anyone understand the other person, for example her friend?

Sure! People are not complex, at all. People are terribly simple and have their behaviour modulated by very simple things, so all this is just emergence. Just pay attention and you'll understand them. That's what I always did, and it works, even too damn much if you ask. Just keep in mind that most people don't really like to be understood: they get paranoid and freak out, and treat you like you had second intentions. ☢ Ҡieff 14:58, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Oh my, what a complex question. Unlike the previous contributor, I'm not so sure. I think on a day-to-day basis you can understand the people you're close to pretty well. You know what sorts of things your freinds and family like and don't like, what their relationships with other people are like, and so on. That makes it pretty easy to get along very well with them. But to understand a person in a really, really deep sense - well, if it were easy I don't think we'd have so many psychologists, sociologists, anthropologists, biologists, doctors, philosophers, and theologians, all working very hard to understand just one little part or another of people. But I don't think that has to worry you. I think you can understand those close to you pretty well if just put a little effort into it. -- George 00:33, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
You 2 guys are braver than me - I don't even understand the question. What other person? "other" in reference to whom? whose friend? Are there 3 people in this scenario? This is like a surreal Monty-Pythonish quesion such as "does your wife go?" answer: "she sometimes goes". JackofOz 00:56, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Are lyrics sites fair use?[edit]

Is there a court case that states that posting lyrics is against the law? I would think they would fall under fair use.

Fair use generally lets you quote a small part of a work (like a few lines), but most of those lyric sites reproduce the entire thing. You could question what proportion of a song the lyrics comprise - frequently lyricists and composers will take equal billing and equal compensation for writing a song, so that's a pretty strong case that the lyrics are about 50% of the creative, copyrightable, work. I don't think most lyric sites fall remotely inside fair use. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
And what's more, neither does the recording industry: [12]. David | Talk 17:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The recording industry seem to think that everything from iPods to PCs to singing in the bath is illegal, so I wouldn't use them as the ultimate authority for copyright matters. Ojw 19:17, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
That's true, but they are the ones who will sue you about it. And you probably won't have the money to defend yourself in court. And you'd probably lose anyway, in this case. So they are worth taking into consideration for that reason, even if their views on copyright and fair use are problematic on the whole. --Fastfission 05:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Exactly because of this, I also don't think the recording industry falls inside fair use. — JIP | Talk 08:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, to the lyricist, a separate copyright holder in many cases, they represent 100% of their work. Just as an album cover is 100% of a designer's/photographer's/artist's work. Don't really understand how fair use can be claimed on these either. Put it another way: what possible reason could there be for claiming that reproducing all of the lyrics of a song is fair use? Notinasnaid 18:37, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
There's no ambiguity in U.S. copyright law. A person owns what s/he writes. Copyright registration does not change or add to that fact, but it does make for a stronger potential court case. The moral case is well put by Notinasnaid above. Don't put lyrics on your web site without permission from the copyright owner(s). Halcatalyst 21:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Then my question is, why are there so many lyrics sites out there? I think the reason is this: printing the lyrics of a song is undoubtably copyright infringement and thus illegal, but does not signifigantly lessen the value of the song. The damage is so small, it seems to not be worth worrying about. Really, who would really look up the lyrics to a song and say to themselves "Well, now I don't need to buy the album"? Brian Schlosser42 21:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
It's not a matter of buying albums -- it's about sheet music. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
That, and it's about the potential for selling authorized lyrics books. Nobody will buy "The complete lyrics and wonderful wizardly of Bob Dylan" if they can just download it, presumably. But yeah, on the whole, the damage is probably very low, which is why most lyrics sites aren't getting sued in the way that mp3 distributors are. --Fastfission 05:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Having legally bought the music, my tired old brain needs some help with the lyrics. I can figure out the chord and melody lines just fine (on my twelve string) but because of the way my brain is wired, I need help with lyrics. Pearlyrics and Kara Tunes do a fine job of searching the stuff available online and saving me the effort of searching myself. And this is bad? --hydnjo talk 03:57, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
No, it isn't. If it's there, use it. But don't put it out there yourself. Halcatalyst 04:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Once upon a time, there was a little Swiss website called the International Lyrics Server, at It contained by far the largest collection of song lyrics on the Internet (over 100,000 songs -- it was somewhat like Wikipedia in that just about anybody could add lyrics to it). Now, keep in mind that this was a .ch site, and it was physically located in Switzerland. But the people who own the copyrights to lyrics complained to the Swiss police, and they stormed into the location where the computers were located and confiscated them. After much legal wrangling, the owner was allowed to bring his site back up, but it was nothing like what it was, and now no longer exists. User:Zoe|(talk) 05:07, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

is the Greek mythology based on facts or it just the creation of homer?[edit]

is the Greek mythology based on facts or it just the creation of homer?

I'm not sure what you mean. Greek mythology isn't based on facts any more or any less than any other mythology. Regardless of that, it is a fact that people in ancient Greece believed it. Homer is a semi-mythological figure himself. The mythology as a whole existed both before and after whenever Homer existed, if he did. --BluePlatypus 20:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
It was Euhemerus, a 4th century B.C. Greek mythographer, from whom we get the word euhemerism, which is the interpretation of myths as traditional accounts of historical events and persons. The Epicurians believed euhemerism was impious. -Nunh-huh 22:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
It could be argued that the Greeks developed a more "fact-based" form of mythology due to their gods being early examples of anthropomorphic deities. At any rate, "Homer" was certainly not the "inventor" of Greek Mythology. It's generally accepted (or at least it's a major argument) that Homer was the inheritor of a long oral tradition of poetry. Besides, if anything can be called a "primer to Greek Mythology" (though no such thing really exists) would the Theogony of Hesiod, another poet working within the framework of an oral tradition. I would hope this and the above spark some interesting research. Good luck! -- riansnider 02:46, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Ancient Macedon Celebrations[edit]

What celebrations did the ancient macedonians have? could i get a brief description too please? thank you 16:14, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

You can get information on the subject in Macedonia (Roman province) (historial orientation) or in Macedonia (region) (geographical emphasis). Halcatalyst 21:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

U.S. law[edit]

when was the first immigration law controlling or restricting immigration passed in the United States?

  • Look here. Halcatalyst 21:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The Legends of King Arthur[edit]

Is there any literary or symbolic significance to Lancelot being led through "the 12 doors" by Morgan le Fay in the tale by Malory "Lancelt du Lake?

Sure. You could link it to the 12 apostles. Or the zodiac. Or any popular current in the air in England in the 15th century which Malory might have taken an interest in. Halcatalyst 05:03, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

December 10[edit]

Attorney Profile[edit]

What doed the PLLC-of Counsel, mean when an attorney has it behind his name?



Professional Limited Liability Company. Natgoo 12:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Thai movie: "Seven Peoples' Mahha?"[edit]

On Japanese television I saw clips of a Thai action movie which had the title 七人のマッハ (Ruby: 七人(しちにん)のマッハ), which as far as I can guess, would translate most closely as "Seven Peoples' 'Mahha'" or "The 'Mahha' of Seven People." I'm hoping to find the "real" English title so I can look up more info on the movie; the clips featured some really outrageous stunts and I'm curious as to what extent those stunts are "real."

If the Japanese name and my translation doesn't help, you can find the trailer here; click "Enter," then "Skip," then "Trailer" (all in English). Garrett Albright 12:01, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Update: I thought it was just a proper name or something, but I just checked a dictionary and it looks like "Mahha" may be the katakana-ization of "mach," if that helps. Garrett Albright 12:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
The English title's on the first page from your link, right above where it says "Enter". This is Kerd ma lui (Born to Fight), produced by Prachya Pinkaew and directed by Panna Rittikrai, the 2004 remake of the director's 1982 movie. Google " Thai movie "Born to fight" ".
You'd probably also enjoy Ong Bak.
TheMadBaron 12:56, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Ah, okay, thanks. I tend to ignore English text in Japanese media because more often than not it is meaningless decoration, as I thought was the case here. Garrett Albright 13:14, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

About Sahara India Pariwar, a Business organization in India[edit]

Is the chairman of Sahara India Pariwar (a Business organization based in India), Mr Subroto Roy the owner of that group? Is it a not-for-profit organization or is it simply like any other busines group? Is the company owned by Mr.Subroto Roy and his family or is it owned by depositors in that financial group? Do you know how much is Mr.Subroto Roy worth?

A few questions about heavenly souls[edit]

Do heavenly souls have birth and death? Do they have parents and relatives? If they dont have birth and death, how come they did not come to earth all these days (of billions of years of earth's existance)

One possible explanation might be that neither heaven nor souls exist. David Sneek 14:43, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
They don't have birth, parents, or relatives because there's no sex in heaven. They don't have death because, well... where are they supposed to go, Detroit? (Stolen from South Park, I know.) Your third question doesn't make sense to me, could you explain it? —Keenan Pepper 17:56, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
=You're not likely to find anything like definitive answers to questions like this in an encyclopedia. However, the article on Soul certainly addresses many of the ideas people have had about the soul. Halcatalyst 02:29, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
All this is shown in the 1940 film The Blue Bird (film). Herostratus 16:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

international relations[edit]

can someone tell me anything about international relations. Ive chosen this subject for higher studies but i don know anything about it. so , will anyone help me?

  • It's usually considered a good thing to know something about what you are devoting your life to. Why on earth would you choose "higher studies" in something you haven't a clue about? --Nelson Ricardo 16:52, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


which book or play begins with the first line :

" I disappeared before the night of my 12th birthday. July 28th. 1988 "

Most grateful if you can answer this question.

It is from Kensuke's Kingdom by Michael Morpurgo. (From Google Book Search) --Think Fast 18:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


Might the phrase " Red Tape " be described as " Oficial formality or rigid adherence to rules and regulations " ?

Grateful your reply. Hubert.

Yes, see Red tape. David Sneek 16:04, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
No, you have just defined "punctilio". Red tape is a different concept and refers to official procedures which seem excessively elaborate or obstructive, or requiring excessive expenditure of time or paper. alteripse 22:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


Try Wikisource? —Keenan Pepper 18:06, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

is the accounting profession useful?[edit]

No. —Keenan Pepper 18:07, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

It depends on what you need done. --Think Fast 18:32, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Herostratus 16:15, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Accouting, whether companies are in good or bad times, will always be necessary. Accountants, like taxmen, will have jobs at any point in the economy because there will always be someone hiring.--Screwball23 talk 04:07, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

strengths and limitations of the accountancy profession[edit]

See Accountancy. WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 18:50, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I want dance music[edit]

I want dance music. Please recommend some to me.

I hate music which mentions romantic love every 15 seconds.

I want maybe remixed classical, or, better yet, public-domain dance music (if there is any out there).


I'd start by wading through the links at Dance music to narrow down what you're after to a specific sub-genre. If that fails, a specific Google Search may help. has a section on dance music, as does the BBC. All of these have links off. Hope this helps. ➨ REDVERS 19:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
I was going to suggest Johann Strauss II who composed some lovely dance music in the 19th century. David | Talk 22:25, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
What kind of dancing do you mean? I mean the good kind of dancing. --Juuitchan
  • Try It is a site which will try to suggest music based on songs you like. - Mgm|(talk) 11:01, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
    • William Orbit did a great album of classical music remixed in a dance style-ee. Some of David Arnold's albums are that kind of genre, also. Proto t c 13:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Alaskan Creoles Treatment by the russians in Russian Alaska[edit]

Hello...does anyone know what was signifigant about the Russian's treatment of the Alaskan Russian decendant Creoles in Russian Alaska. I know that the children of the Alaskan women and Russian men eventually had much power in the Russian settlements. But how did the Russians treat them? Thanks so much if anyone can elaborate I really would appreciate the help. Anna

Song texts and copyright[edit]

Are Song texts (Lyrics) copyrighted material, or free as the bird? I thought why not make a wikipedia lyrics project...

  • They're subject to copyright, unless you're talking about really old lyrics. (How old "really old" is depends on the vagaries of copyright law as well as what country you are located in.) See above. --Metropolitan90 00:43, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

December 11[edit]

chuck knoblauch[edit]

Does anyone know where he is? Does he have Dystonia?

Joanna M>

He is retired. He has had (and may still have) homes in Houston and Las Vegas. I have never heard him state he has dystonia, but it has been blamed for his gradual loss of throwing accuracy. --Kainaw (talk) 05:41, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Law re: crossing forest service land to reach private property[edit]

Does anyone know if it is legal for the US Forest Service to prevent a person from using a Forest Service Road to reach their own private property if that is the only access? Background Info: I have a piece of property on one side of 13 acre parcel - the Forest Service is on the other side of the 13 acres. I won a court case whereby I do NOT have to allow the owner of the 13 acres to cross my property to reach his land because he has access vis the Forest Service side. The man is now appealing - stating that the Forest Service might someday decide to lock him out and not allow him to cross to get to his property. How can I find a law or Case law pertaining to this? PLEASE HELP ME - thanks in advance ...Maria

Wikipedia is not a legal resource. However, the forest service does have the authority to enforce no trespassing on their land. You may as well ask why you can't drive through your neighbor's backyard to get to your house. --Kainaw (talk) 05:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Kainaw - You say the forest Service does have authroity to enforce no trespassing (is this just your thought or do you have case law to back it up?) By what I read in maria's question - if it is the only access too the 13 acres, then NO the forest service cannot lock them out of their property. Just like a "neighbor" cannot keep you off his/her property if they have the only access to a land locked piece ajoining thier property. 09:58, 11 December 2005 (UTC)~Matthias

It should be obvious, but you can type "forest service no trespassing" into google if you like. As for your assumption that a neighbor cannot block access to landlocked property, you are wrong. It is perfectly legal for a person to deny access to their property - even if that property is the absolute only access to another owner's property. That scenario played out near my home a couple years ago. A developer purchased land to develop on an island. He planned to extend a road through undeveloped land and build a bridge to the island. After building the bridge, he finally contacted the owner of the undeveloped land: the SC Dept of Natural Resources. They said no. It was protected wetlands. So, the developer wasted a lot of money on development and bridge-building and ended up with nothing. Similarly, by grandfather owned land in the Ozarks that had no road access. You could only get to it by boat. He had no right to put a road through his neighbor's property. Also, when I walked to school as a kid, I could follow the road up a steep hill, turn right, then right again, and go down the road to school - or I could cut through a guy's fenced-in backyard and skip the steep hill. It was trespassing, but I did it every time I didn't see him on his porch yelling at all the kids for jumping his fence. --Kainaw (talk) 17:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

If you want specific case law I would try or some other legal search website. -- WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 18:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe Kainaw enjoys making up stories as he goes along. After reading some of his other comments on here it appears he just like to see his comments in print no matter how inaccurate or absurd. I assure you Maria - not one word of what he has told you is true. The USFS has a form by which you may obtain written permission to access your property. (STANDARD FORM 299 (6/99) Prescribed by DOI/USDA/DOT P.L. 96-487 and Federal) you fill it out and they absolutely must grant you access to landlocked property. (Provided it isn’t protected lands such as a marsh or bird sanctuary) It’s a federal law that the USFS cannot prevent anyone from reaching their private property if there is no other access. And I am nearly positive (but it may be State by State) that private landowners cannot block you from reaching landlocked property either as long as it is, in fact, the ONLY access available. ---UpTake John---

I'll go tell the Beech company. You just rescued them from a huge investment loss. Just fill out a request and nobody can stop them from putting a road through federal land! Damn lawyers - who needs 'em when you've got UpTake John! --Kainaw (talk) 20:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you John for your help. I greatly appreciate it. I know what you mean about Kainaw - he's always cruisin for a bruisin! I will go online and look for the form you suggested. Again, Thanks Maria

It isn't hard to find: [13]. But, you should read the instructions carefully. It is not, as UpTake John claimed, free access to federal land. It is an information gathering sheet for use by the government to use in deciding if they will grant access. They are nice enough to list many of the laws governing access through federal property at the bottom in very small print. --Kainaw (talk) 01:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Maria you need to find out if there has been use of a USFS road to the property in question during the past 10 years. If there is already a road in and the USFS has never denied access before then they never can. It's called perscriptive easement - similar to Adverse easement when the owner doesn't use the property and you do. I suggest you simply go visit the nearest USFS office in the county where the property is located and request permission to pass. If you aren't doing something illegal on the property then it won't be a problem. As you may have guessed I work for the USFS and they by Federal law cannot deny you access to you own property in most cases - with few exceptions. Martin X

  • Sounds like a lot of lawyering up here. Can't you just sell the guy an easement along one side of your property or something? Why don't you want this guy to go through your property to get to his property? If the situation was reversed wouldn't you want him to work out something? Herostratus 16:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

What is the origin of the word 'Iron curtain'[edit]

Try typing Iron Curtain into the "Find" box and clicking on "Go". --Kainaw (talk) 05:49, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
It's actually 2 words & Winston Churchill thought up the phrase, using it initially in letters & then in his famous Fulton, Missouri Speech (I believe in 1946)
  • Churchill popularised it (and applied it to post-war Europe in that speech) but it had been used by the Nazi German Propaganda Minister Goebbels and others before. Jameswilson 23:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, iron curtain has been used in a general sense since 1819, and was used to refer to the edge of the Soviet Union's sphere of influence in 1920. [14] ᓛᖁ♀ 00:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

what type of food is eaten in New Zealand?[edit]

the preceding unsigned comment is by (talk • contribs) 06:59, 11 December 2005

Cuisine of New Zealand. —Charles P. (Mirv) 07:11, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

How to enrol as a candidate in an Australian federal election[edit]

I've looked all over the internet for information on how to enrol as a CANDIDATE in the next Australian Federal election in either House. I havn't been able to find anything, but hopefully someone out there will be able to provide me with at least an email address or webpage. Cheers.

This page talks about the process in the past tense, regarding the 2004 Federal Elections. Perhaps that will help start you off. The Australian Electoral Commission's main website is here. Hope this helps. ➨ REDVERS 14:57, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Battle Iwo Jima[edit]

We have found maps and some other significant pieceses of the battle front in what seams to be a battle bag from the battle of Iwo Jima and we are wondering the importeance of this finding. To me this is a finding of our histoy and toutching this bag is toutching that battle reading these maps puts me in that time in history. I am new at this discussion page can someone help..Fatty1

You just told us what the importance is to you of what you found. We have an article on Iwo Jima. What help are you asking for here? alteripse 16:14, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Order of the golden fleece[edit]

Who is the current holder of The Order Of the Golden Fleece.--16:29, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Most likely Juan Carlos I of Spain. See the article at Order of the Golden Fleece. ➨ REDVERS 16:34, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Unless of course you mean the Order of the Golden Fleece at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. JamesMLane 07:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Poverty point[edit]

I have the same question 19:42, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The name derives from the Poverty Point plantation, which included the site's land in modern times. See An Overview of Poverty Point from the Louisiana state government. WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 21:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

most boring English monarch[edit]

A subjective question, obviously: which king or queen of England had the most boring reign - the fewest wars, revolts, colonial conquests or uprisings, the least interesting personal life with the most unexceptional details of coronation and death, and last but by no means least, the most uneventful period of history to rule over - the least progress made as a country technologically or culturally, and fewest discoveries or advancements of individual citizens? I believe this last part in particular would exclude, for example, Elizabeth II from the list of most boring English monarchs. Thanks!!11 -- 23:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

How about Lady Jane Grey? She certainly had the shortest reign for anything else to happen in! -- Arwel (talk) 23:35, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Not a direct answer to the question but King George V was noted for his comments on the boring aspects of Kingship - such as "When you've met 150 Lord Mayors, they all begin to look the same" and "Never miss an opportunity to relieve yourself". David | Talk 23:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Among those with slightly longer reigns very little can be said for William IV (though he still has rather a long wikipedia article). 05:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

How can I reset my laptop to shutoff using the shut off button[edit]

On my old laptop - windows xp - I was able to reset my computer's hibernation settings and shutdown settings - but I can't seen to figure out where to do that on this new laptop. It's a HP Pavilion dv/4000 Windows Xp I'd appreciate any help.

Control Panel -> Power -> "Advanced" tab. Fiddle to your heart's content :)
(although, no matter how I twist it, I can't see how this can possibly be a Humanities question...) — QuantumEleven | (talk) 23:54, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps he is thinking about the philosophy of the proper function of a power button. "Computer, turn off." "Turn off? Wouldn't like it if I just hibernated?" "No, turn off." "Perhaps I should wait while all hung programs run into infinity." "No, turn off." "Honestly, you don't want me to actually power down!" "I said, turn off, damn it!" "Don't get angry. Just hold the power button for 5-10 seconds - isn't that obvious?" --Kainaw (talk) 01:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The most obvious thing to me is that you, Kainaw, need to get a life! Amiga OH YES - and thank you ever so much QuantumEleven for answering my question without making me feel like an idiot. :)

December 12[edit]

What legacies of Roman law and Roman politics live in the contemporary USA?[edit]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:|User:]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs) 12 Dec 2005

Roman law influenced Continental European law far more than U.S. law. Many of the U.S. founders were very aware of the history and institutions of ancient Classical city-states (Aristotle's study of constitutions, etc.), but it might be difficult to identify any very specific borrowing into the U.S. constitution (other than the name "Senate"). AnonMoos 03:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Though the founders of America were certainly schooled in Latin and in Latin histories, with particular heroes such as Cicero, Cato the Younger, Brutus, Cassius and Cincinnatus. The historical legacy of those who died for freedom and fought for the republic is probably more important than any specific borrowings of law. - Nunh-huh 03:40, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The Justinian code is more or less directly at the root of French civil law (as opposed to Common Law), which still exists in Louisiana, and which was one of the guiding principles behind the compilation of the US Code. --Diderot 07:00, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Girish Karnad[edit]

i am doing my research on the plays of girish karnad my question is "how many theses have so far been written on his plays and what are the thrust areas of the research" —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:|User:]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs) 12 Dec 2005

"I would like to enrich myself on the topic mentioned in the title, also if possible, the links on the net to know about the major crux in this field" —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:|User:]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs) 12 Dec 2005


Do you know A.J.Ayers argument on Robinson Crusoe? Thanks alot —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:|User:]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs) 12 Dec 2005

This article (I think it's safe to scroll down a little) offers an overview of Wittgenstein's position on "private languages," followed by (in section 3) Ayer's response, albeit from a strongly critical perspective (and the yellow highlights and black background don't do it any favors).
If you want Ayer's real words, his Crusoe argument can be found in full under the title "Can There Be a Private Language?" in Canfield, ed., The Philosophy of Wittgenstein, New York: Garland, 1986; it was originally published in Proceedings of the Aristotelian Society in 1954 (Hat tip: [15], which gives especially clear background on Wittengstein's position). If you need an intro to the private language debate in the first place, see here. --zenohockey 04:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
No. Do you? JackofOz 04:16, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


can you please tell me when does this world or the life started? what was happening before and before that? how long the circle of births and deaths will revolve? and what will happen after that? if we go to heaven or hell after death, how long do we stay there?

  • You could start with A Brief History of Everything by Ken Wilber. Then follow up on all the references. Another good place to start is Galileo's Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems and also follow that trail to the end. Somewhere along the path you're bound to find the answers to your questions. Halcatalyst 04:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • If this were the Science desk, we would tell you to RTFM, but as it's the Humanities desk, we'll be humane and let you in on the big secret: most of us make it up as we go along. alteripse 04:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Of course, the many branches of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and other religions usually claim they have the answer to your questions. Some particularly relevant links for you might be Creationism, eschatology, heaven, and hell. Philosophers usually just give up; solipsism is perfectly logically consistent. Finally, if you want science's answer to that you might have a look at Big Bang, Origin of life (short answer: science really doesn't have much useful to say about this, yet), and Ultimate fate of the universe (mostly speculation). Science has no opinion on whether heaven or hell exist. --Robert Merkel 05:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • However... "A Scientific Proof of Hell":

A thermodynamics professor had written a take home exam for his graduate students. It had one question:

"Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Support your answer with a proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So, we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving.

I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities.

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Therese Banyan during my Freshman year, "That it will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true, and so Hell is exothermic.

The student got the only A.

Halcatalyst 21:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Benefits of being a United States Senator[edit]

A long time ago I heard of a factoid about one of the perquisites of being a United States Senator, namely that, once you're a Senator you forever after are exempt from federal income taxes. Many searches on the web and asking friends that work at the Library of Congress did not reveal any conclusive evidence either confirming or refuting that factoid.

This question also led me to ask further questions: What are the benefits of being a Senator? What kind of health care do they get (I heard it's free at Bethesda Naval Hospital - again no one can confirm nor deny this)? Do they have a retirement plan? 401k? Are their blackberries paid for with my tax dollars as benefit of the office or does it come out of their salary?

Of course the same questions can be asked about US representatives and Supreme Court Justices.

Anyone with firm information on this??

  • The factoid isn't true. Currently, rank-and-file congresscritters (Senators and Representatives) make $158,100 per year in salary; leadership positions about $20K more, and Speaker of the House $203,000. They get the same health plans other federal employees get. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 06:34, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Don't forget franking privileges. Free mail (sort of) is a cool perk. In addition, certainly, the staffs and day-to-day expenses of the Congress are paid by the tax payers, in the same way that the President's food and housing costs aren't deducted from his 400k/year, right? Brian Schlosser42 21:08, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Members of Congress also get really great parking spaces at National Airport. -- Mwalcoff 00:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
This probably came from the rather popular email that had made various rounds through the internet. It was covered on [16] - which explains that it is not true. --Kainaw (talk) 02:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
You can also drive strange women into the river and get away with it. And I thought the president only made $250k yearly. (There are still people at Microsoft that make more money than he does if the figure above is correct, though, and I'm not talking about Bill Gates.) Cernen 20:45, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
There are *lots* of people who make more money than congresscritters; most senior lawyers do, for instance. In fact, there's a substantial argument to suggest that their salaries should be *raised* substantially, to make them less susceptible to corruption. --Robert Merkel 23:41, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Could you identify this song?[edit]

File:Unkownsong.ogg - Me whistling a part of the song in question (a couple times because I really couldn't remember much more of it)

This song may come from a film or tv show featuring a car chase. It is apparently from the 60s or 70s. It has no lyrics making it hard to identify. Please help!

Theshibboleth 09:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Could it be "Classical Gas"? - Akamad 10:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes that's exactly it. Thank you so much.
Theshibboleth 04:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome. - Akamad 06:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Audrey Munson[edit]

Hello, I have a request. There was a modell named Audrey Munson. Could someone move the images from English WP to Commons? I am not very fit with the licences here. Thank you very much. -- Simplicius 09:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


Hey, has any one heard of the Old Apostolic Church? especially outside of africa? i was wondering if it really is a CULT and not a religious denomination as some say? are there any Wiki's who share this amazing religion and could you tell me more about it or where i can get more info? Thanx beforehand! ME--

there are german and dutch articles on it it seems, but not an english one. Boneyard 13:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Roger McGough poem[edit]

When was Roger McGough's poem The Lesson written? What book(s) of his was it published in, if any? —Slicing 15:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure it's by McGough? The Kingfisher Book of Funny Poems (ISBN 0753454807) is edited by him, and contains a poem called "The Lesson," by John Ciardi, which is copyright 1993, and also appears in Someone Could Win a Polar Bear] (ISBN 1590780124). If it is by McGough, try his Collected Poems (ISBN 0141014555). --zenohockey 02:36, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

First atomic bomb[edit]

During the civil war I once read about a farmer who had designed a dirty atomic bomb. He was supposedly assassinated by the north before he completed it. Do you have any information on this? - unsigned

You read this during the American Civil War (1861–1865)? Amazing. -- Ec5618 15:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Assuming he learned to read at birth, and was born in the last year of the civil war, this makes him 140 years old. Perhaps we should contact the Guinness Book of Records. — JIP | Talk 19:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Assuming you are talking about the American Civil War this is unlikely because radioactivity was not discovered until 1896. Its deleterious effects on the human body were not documented until some time later (Marie Curie died of leukemia from handling the nasty stuff). Jasongetsdown 16:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

This kind of question suggests we need to shore up the walls between the alternate universes again, guys. alteripse 17:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Sounds to me like a very distorted partial memory of Vernor Vinge's short story "The Ungoverned Lands". AnonMoos 18:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Or a Harry Turtledove novel? He's fond of anachronistic alternate history and the Civil War... Shimgray | talk | 21:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Why is everybody assuming this is the American Civil War? It could have been the Spanish Civil War. Zoe ( 18:50, 13 December 2005 (UTC))

Even if we are talking about the American Civil War, if you are defining a "dirty atomic bomb" as a dirty bomb then there is no reason why a farmer couldn't gather some radioative ore and blow it up. You don't need to understand the science behind something to get it working.--Commander Keane 19:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
You couldn't consciously design a "dirty bomb" of any sort during this point because radioactivity was not known at all. You wouldn't know what radioactive ore was versus other ore, much less have any idea about the negative health effects of radioactivity. --Fastfission 02:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I guess people are just thinking "If in doubt, assume Merka". Europeans are usually more aware that their question might be read by foreigners, so they indicate which country they are talking about. — JIP | Talk 07:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Or it could be because the original question makes a reference to "the north" —Slicing (talk) 08:22, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The question is a bit too incoherent on a number of points to make any sense of. In any event, it seems unlikely on all interpretations, in my opinion. --Fastfission 02:24, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
The north may also refer to Korea (an area situated in Mission Impossible II) or Vietnam (I assume some american people can remember where). Altogether in Paris we usually do not assassinate people because we're on strike. --Harvestman 23:17, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Is the candle proverb really a Chinese proverb?[edit]

‘Better to light a candle, than to curse the darkness.’ This is widely quoted in English as being a Chinese proverb. But my impression in Mandarin leads me to give the following counter-attribution, easily flowing from the tongue: ‘西諺有云:與其詛咒黑暗,不如點燃一支蠟燭。’ Am I being facetious? – Kaihsu 17:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what those Chinese characters say, but one possible origin is a newspaper article in the Frederick Post on July 8, 1940:

"Strength For Today" by Earl L. Douglass, D. D.

China has been suffering a great deal the past few years as the scourge of war has stamped the life of its people into the earth. What many do not realize is that Chinese leadership, driven from the seaboard, has led a great trek into the interior and has there set up a new and better empire. One of the leaders of new China said to a friend of mine recently, "I had

rather light a candle in the darkness than to curse the darkness."
Slicing 18:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

History of the "Sullivan Slave School"[edit]

I have a Patch from an unknown origin. I’ve exhausted all areas I could think of to try and research its origin and/or history but have come up empty. I tried the Google Search Engine, wrote to the State of Texas and several Colleges but to no avail. Consequently, I now look to you for any historical factual data on its origin or history. What I cal tell you is that this Patch measures 7.5 inches long by 8 inches wide. It is made of felt and appears to be hand-done, machine embroidery. The Patch reads: “Sullivan Slave School”, “Class of 1949 – 50”. There are 3 symbols in the center of the Patch on a black background. They are a bottle of Whiskey (white on black); a ball and chains (black on red); and a cat-o-9-tails (white on black). Could you provide any historical background/history or was this a hoax?

Not a hoax, just obviously a joke or a prank, like a fraternity gag. alteripse 18:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Agatha Christie[edit]

Who is Agatha Christie?

Did you try using the search button at left? — Lomn | Talk / RfC 19:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

john f kennedy[edit]

the last paragraph under domestic policy makes a statement i've never heard before. are we sure that kennedy founded nambla?

When you viewed it, the article had recently been vandalised. It's since been fixed, and the vandal blocked from editing. Thanks for noticing the problem. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:11, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Cathedral in Genoa?[edit]

The Holy Grail article mentions that one of the supposed locations of the grail was "at Genoa, in the cathedral" (Holy Grail#Four medieval relics). There isn't a cathedral mentioned at Genoa in the list of cathedrals#Italy, but the Genoa article makes a very short mention of a St. Lawrence Cathedral (no article). Is the St. Lawrence Cathedral noteworthy enough for an article, listing on the list of cathedrals, etc.? Is that the catherdal with one of the Holy Grails in it? -- Creidieki 20:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Speaking as a bit of an inclusionist, I'd have to say definitely! A google search turns up "Results 1 - 10 of about 887 for "St. Lawrence Cathedral" genoa. (0.40 seconds)", then another "Results 1 - 10 of about 553 for "San lorenzo Cathedral" genoa." and finally an astounding Results 1 - 10 of about 10,400 for "Cattedrale di San Lorenzo" genoa.
All of these are referencing the same cathedral, just in English, Italian and a form of patois between the two - so not only is it apparently quite a monument in itself, the fact it's tied to the Grail legends makes it an even more important location :) Best of luck! Sherurcij (talk) (bounties) 22:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Real killer ?[edit]

In 1993, the band Macabre published an album entitled Sinister Slaughter. Every song on the album is "dedicated" to a real-life serial-killer or mass murderer. Except apparently song 12, "White Hen Decapitator" - Michael Bethke, dedicated to Michael Bethke: I can find no trace of the gruesome murder described in the lyrics of the song on Google. There are some hits for a Michael Bethke murderer, except that this murder happened 3 weeks ago. So, can any trace be found of the "White Hen Decapitator", and if not, why is it the only fake killer in the album ? Thanks :) -- Ze miguel 22:24, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Michael Bethke does exist. I found a short reference to him in the May 21, 1993 issue of the Chicago Tribune at page 3. The story states that Michael Bethke of Calumet City, Illinois was found not guilty by reason of insanity in the slaying of 49 year-old Joseph Lesinski and that a hearing regarding his mental condition and future prognosis would be held on June 3, 1993. The story also states that the slaying occured on June 6, 1991, slaying of Joseph Lesinski while both were working at the Burnham White Hen Pantry. According to the story, "Bethke admitted to decapitating Lesinski with a knife when the victim bent over to get a pack of cigarettes." The July 9, 1993 issue of the Tribune reports that Bethke was ordered to spend up to 49 years in a state mental institution.
There are several other stories to be found in the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times archives. Bethke was described by Assistant Public Defender Paul Brownlee as suffering from "chronic paranoid schizophrenia." He used a 14 inch kitchen knife to behead Lesinski. A detailed report of the crime scene can be found in the June 8, 1991 issue of the Sun-Times, at page 12, which noted that the victim apparently had the word "repent" scrawled on his forehead. No mention of a price tag. Hum. Someone should probably add all this to the Bethke article. Crypticfirefly 05:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks a lot, Crypticfirefly. You just saved a valid article from an AfD. -- Ze miguel 07:34, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

December 13[edit]

Anyone can offer me the labor law of Netherlands in English?[edit]

I am a foreign investor in Netherlands, and I met some labor questions that I have to solve, if someone can offer me the labor laws or regulations of Netherlands in English, please mail me the English edition to the following address : [E-Mail removed], it will be very helpful for me, thanks for your enthusiasm and Merry Christmas.

You could check the site of the Netherland's Ministry of Social Affairs and Employment. And I would be worried I was a foreign investor and needed help from Wikipedia... — QuantumEleven | (talk) 08:47, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

martial arts dancing[edit]

Hi, my daughter wants to take a dance class that she saw some other girls doing that was a combination of break dancing and martial you know the name of the dance? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Are you thinking of Capoeira? — flamingspinach | (talk) 04:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • As far as I know, Flamingspinach's answer is the only thing that comes close to what you describe. BTW, great name, Spinach! - Mgm|(talk) 09:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
    • They do some sweet bodypopping kung-fu in Zoolander, although I have my suspicions about that being a real martial art. Proto t c 11:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Haha, thanks MacGyverMagic. — flamingspinach | (talk) 17:17, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Status of Wikipedia[edit]

I remember Wikipedia being referred to somewhere as the largest encyclopedia ever written in the history of the world. However, I can not find this in the Wikipedia entry for Wikipedia. Is this fact true, and what are some other figures that may put the scope of Wikipedia in perspective? Thanks -JianLi 03:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it would depend on how you count it. Theshibboleth 04:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
See Encyclopedia and List of encyclopedias, and the individual encyclopedias those articles link to, to get a perspective.-gadfium 04:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Names and Contact Details of defeated MLAs in last Maharashtra assembly election[edit]

Please let me know names and contact details of defeated siting MLAs in last Maharashtra Assembly elections?

The wonderful election archive by Adam Carr (he's a Wikipedian, too) has the list of winning MLAs from that election, but, unfortunately, not a full list of candidates. For that information, the only source I can find is the Election Commission of India's database listing. Unfortunately, all of that information is in Microsoft Access database file format; whichever bureaucrat decided to make this information available primarily as an Access database should be reincarnated as krill or something similarly low on the pecking order. If you don't have a copy of Access, but have a high degree of computer expertise MDB tools are geek-level tools for getting access to the data. Sorry, but I don't have time to play with it myself to see if I can extract the relevant data. Sorry. In any case, you'll have to dig up contact details yourself. I presume prospective MPs are the kind likely to have phone lines and are therefore listed in the phonebook. --Robert Merkel 13:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


if an individual pratices in a homosexual relationship does it make them less of a person?NO it does'nt!So why does society condemn these people to their ability of being beautiful and far as i know the bible states that man and female should be partnered, but nowhere does HE pass judgement on people of same sex preferences!so is it a sin?

Um, the Reference Desk is not for rhetorical questions. —Keenan Pepper 07:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
See Societal attitudes towards homosexuality.-gadfium 08:02, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with you that being homosexual doesn't make anyone less of a person, but is "the Bible says so" your only criterion of whether something should be done? — JIP | Talk 08:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
In any case, there's no such thing as being "less of a person". An animate being is either a person, or is not. There are no part-persons, just as a woman cannot be slightly pregnant. JackofOz 02:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Islam prohibits this pratice as this is not natural practice. God has created man for women and vice versa.


In Canada and the United States, what are the criteria for a school to become a university? Also,what are the differences between a university, college, institute of technology and a vocational school?

Well, I don't know the answer to your first question, but the difference between the schools colleges are much smaller than universities i.e. community colleges are about the size of some malls but universities can take up several blocks. Institutes of technology are simply one of these but they deal specifically in the technilogical studies, and a vocational school teaches you a trade like welding or automechanics.

A university (in the usual sense) is composed of colleges specializing in particular areas. For instance, my school had colleges of Arts, Engineering, Business, and Nursing to comprise the university as a whole. However, any institution can call itself a "university"; academic legitimacy is gained via school accreditation. — Lomn | Talk / RfC 16:48, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Traditionally, a university offered doctoral degrees in addition to lower qualifications. A college in Canada has often meant a high school, but in the US usually means an institution that offers undergraduate degrees but not doctorates. An institute of technology is usually a fancy name for a vocational school - a school that offers some form of diploma in a specific trade, but not a liberal arts education. Nowadays, none of these criteria are really very fixed and the exceptions are now too widespread for these rules of thumb to be of much use. The terminology has no particular legal definition, and nothing prevents a vocational school that teaches auto repair from billing itself as a university if it so chooses, nor is there any barrier to an institute of technology offering doctoral programs. --Diderot 22:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Just to clarify: A "college" in Canada is usually like a community college in the U.S. Some Canadian high schools call themselves "collegiate institutes," and at least one private high school in Toronto calls itself a "college," even though it isn't.
In the U.S., a vocational school is an alternative to a standard high school that focuses on teaching a trade. Generally, vocational schools prepare students for work after graduation, while other schools (in theory) prepare students for college (university). But not everyone who graduates from a regular high school goes on to college, and some people who go to vocational school do go on to college
An "institute of technology" may just be a trade school for adults, but some universities -- such as MIT -- also use the term. -- Mwalcoff 23:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Who is this man?[edit]

I stumbled accross this image at the commons, and replaced a low quality version of that very image at wikipedia. It was used in 2 articles, Jan Cornelisz Vermeyen and Mercurino Gattinara. The deleted image Image:Mercurino Gattinara.jpg claimed it was the only surviving portrait of Gattinara, yet the description page from the Yorck Project claims that the name of the painting is Porträt des Kanzlers Jehan Carondelet, and so theres a discrepancy. The deleted image was posted by User:Thames, and whose source of the information was (italian). This really isn't my area of expertise, so if anyone knows anything about this, then could you clear it up. - Hahnchen 16:06, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Porträt des Kanzlers Jehan Carondelet means Potrait of the Chancellor to Jehan Carondelet in German. The Italian page seems to indicate that this is a picture of Gattinara (the chancellor), painted by Vermeyen. --Fastfission 03:09, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Fallacy in logic[edit]


I have read elsewhere that there is a recent analysis of logical syllogisms which states that all properly formed logical trains (major premise, minor premise, conclusion) contain by their nature and inherent to the premises, such language as can be considered begging the question. This in large measure makes logical statements less useful as a heuristic process, although for explanation there is still value of course.

I did not see any reference to this development in Wikipedia articles about logic and fallacies and wondered if it appeared in that area or some other, or whether Wikipedia was unaware of the issue.

By way of example:

  • All live trees have roots.
  • The maple on my front lawn is a live tree.
  • The maple on my front lawn has roots.

...requires, a priori, the realization that we wish to state "A live maple has roots", and the syllogism is merely a deconstruction of the desired conclusion into forms of general statement (major premise) and sub-statement (case within class; minor premise) that can mean the conclusion.

An alternative, starting with some major premise and adding a minor premise might randomly reach the desired conclusion given enough time, but this is not a practical experiment. Another alternative is to start with a generic syllogism

  • All x have y.
  • A z is an x.
  • A z has y.

and create the desired conclusion by adding referents as needed. But this produces nothing new, since the formulation of the generic form already included the conclusion "revealed" by the syllogism as elements of the premises.

I do not recall the original source for this insight and will be looking for it on line, but wondered if Wikipedia had some information about it.


William A. Hoffman III

I repaired your formatting; hope you don't mind. —Keenan Pepper 17:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe you're referring to the paradox of analysis. Wikipedia doesn't have an article on it, but see Michael Clark, Paradoxes from A to Z, Routledge (2002), pp. 5-7 (or view the pages on here. As Clark puts it:
We can analyse the notion of brother by saying that to be a brother is to be a male sibling. However, if this is correct, then it seems that it is the same statement as 'To be a brother is to be a brother'. Yet this would mean the analysis is trivial. But surely informative analysis is possible? (p. 5)
--zenohockey 03:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
KP, thanks. WAH
No, the paradox of analysis is the curious situation of imagining if the Nets beat the Bulls and the Bulls beat the Knicks then the Nets ought to beat the Knicks easily, or the related one that head to head polls show Candidate A elected over Candidate B, and with a choice of B or C, B wins, yet when the comparison is presented for A vs C, C wins. The issue I've raised is the one stated that the syllogism is inherently flawed: it can't show anything new and will only "prove" what is already known to be true. I recall Captain Queeg (Caine Mutiny) declaiming that he had established that the strawberries were stolen by one of the galley mates by "...geometric logic...", which word (logic) was meant to imply that it was fully established and beyond question. But the syllogism is not a proof or a basis for a proof. It's just a formal rhetorical structure.

cf: A little deeper into my original maple tree syllogism, for example, it is clear that the maple tree on my front lawn was already in my mind when I said "all live trees have roots". Indeed it must have been among the "all" trees I evaluated to make the major premise. WAH

Living Past Presidents?[edit]

I note that we currently have four former Presidents still living (Ford, Carter, Bush, Clinton). Is this the greatest number we have ever had at one time? What about First Ladies? Thanks, K. Allen

During the entire Clinton administration, Reagan was still alive, so there were still at least four; until mid-1994 Nixon was also alive, making five. After Clinton left office, but before Reagan died, there were again five. I don't believe there's ever been six. Shimgray | talk | 19:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
There were also five living ex-presidents during the early part of the Lincoln Administration: Martin Van Buren, John Tyler, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan. This was the case from Lincoln's inauguration, March 4, 1861, until Tyler died on January 18, 1862. Regarding the first ladies, we have six former ones living now: Hillary Clinton, Barbara Bush, Nancy Reagan, Rosalynn Carter, Betty Ford, and Lady Bird Johnson. However, this is not a record, since there were seven living former first ladies at the beginning of the Clinton administration, when Pat Nixon and Jacqueline Kennedy were still alive -- this was the situation from January 20, 1993 until Pat Nixon died on June 22 of that year. I don't know if that's a record, though. --Metropolitan90 05:13, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Before Tarja Halonen was elected as President, all ten Presidents had been alive simultaneously. But currently, we have one less, because Kyösti Kallio died three years before Halonen was born. — JIP | Talk 06:46, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Good call. :) K. Allen, please specify what country you are talking about. Wikipedia is a global community. — flamingspinach | (talk) 17:14, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
To be fair, K. did say "we" and named four presidents. I think it should be possible to determine from that which country was being referred to. --Anonymous, 01:45 UTC, December 15, 2005

Leonardo DaVinci and ADD[edit]

Hello, I am a student in Pennsylvania and I am currently writing a research paper on Leonardo DaVinci. In my quest for research, I have found some sources that state "Leonardo DaVinci had Attention Deficit Disorder." I was simply wondering if there is anyone who can either prove or disprove this query. Any websites, either for or against, or books, articles, etc. would be very helpful and much appreciated! Thank You! - Chloe

You might want to take a look at Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#Positive_aspects, which sounds a note of caution about historical diagnoses (though perhaps not a loud enough one in the case of applying a diagnosis to a person when that person died hundreds of years before the disease was even thought of. I think if you consider it, you wil find that the answer to your question is "No, no one can prove or disprove the assertion that Leonardo would have been diagnosed as having ADD had today's diagnostic criteria been applied to him", and I would suggest to you that unless you have a special interest in ADD your time would be better spent researching some other aspect of da Vinci. - Nunh-huh 20:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Strictly speaking, I believe the DSM requires data from childhood to officially diagnose someone with ADD. So unless there's historical evidence of childhood distraction/malacting, it's not really possible to "diagnose" him. --zenohockey 03:44, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
On a tangentially related note, he is correctly referred to as "Leonardo da Vinci" or "Leonardo", not "da Vinci". —Slicing (talk) 02:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
And if you're interested in the perils of historical psychology, esp. in regards to da Vinci, take a look at Freud's analysis of da Vinci's The Virgin and Child with St. Anne. --Fastfission 02:20, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Looking for an album of Pandit Hari Prasad Chaurasiya[edit]

Hi, Some years ago I heard an album of Pandit Hari Prasad Chaurasiya. (Probably) the first track of that album comprised of Flute, Pakhawaj and Santoor. All these Instruments initiated a scene of thunderstorm with lightning. I would be really thankful, if somebody tells the name of that album. Thanks...

I don't know, but googling for his name gets a lot of hits. You may be better off looking for a forum or website of his fans. The searh also leads to what looks like his official website with contact information. They could probably help you. - Taxman Talk 14:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

The Lakes, Nevada[edit]

What is The Lakes, Nevada? It seems to have a major credit card payment processing center, as lots of my credit card bills go there, but it doesn't seem to be a city of its own. I tried looking it up on Google maps and it seems to be near Las Vegas, but it wasn't delineated on the map. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

"The Lakes" is a made-up place. Citibank didn't want to use "Las Vegas" in its addresses, so it asked the Postal Service for permission to use "The Lakes" instead. Kind of like how the address for FedEx Field was originally "Raljon, Maryland," named for the Redskins owner's sons. -- Mwalcoff 23:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The heck it's a made-up place! I live less than a mile from it! The Lakes is a housing development in SW Las Vegas (I'm not sure if it's in the City of Las Vegas proper or right on the other side of the city limits like my house is). Artificial lakes (with a remarkable resemblance to a kiddie wading pool) provide the houses in the development with "lakeshore" property. The whole place smells like chlorine. Here's the Google hybrid map of The Lakes (you might need to pan the map a bit to the southwest.) The Citibank processing center is, oddly enough, on Citicorp Dr. (As my smarter half points out, it was indeed created for the convenience of Citicorp, who were one of the first non-gaming-related national companies to set up a major operation in Las Vegas; Nevada even changed some laws to make it happen, with the unintended consequence of a vast proliferation of "payday loan" places in Nevada.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:19, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Jp. Is it a subdivision, or an unincorporated part of Clark County? Or something else altogether? Zoe ( 21:23, 14 December 2005 (UTC))
  • It's within the limits of the City of Las Vegas, as it turns out. From the map, it looks to me like the city annexed the land when the project was developed -- The Lakes is the southermost extent of the city proper. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 06:17, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
My apologies for knocking the town, or whatever it is, of The Lakes. -- Mwalcoff 23:56, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • JP's story is a huge hoot! And some people still maintain that the economic playing field is level? Halcatalyst 23:20, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I've done a bit more research. Las Vegas worked pretty hard to get Citibank's processing center to come here in 1984 -- and it was followed by other companies' data-processing and call-handling centers, nicely providing some diversity to this mostly one-industry town. As far as knocking the town-or-whatever-it-is, feel free to - it really is just a post office name with an associated housing development with a dumb concept, but it's convenient to me solely because when locals ask where in Las Vegas I live, I can say "near the Lakes". (I actually live much closer to a 100-acre gravel pit. This is an odd town.) It's also not to be confused with another amazing example of hubris, Lake Las Vegas. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 06:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

December 14[edit]

What is the polymorphous model?[edit]

Have you tried a search engine? Halcatalyst 19:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


I cannot seem to find any clear answers to the dilemma I find myself in.

I have heard on many occassions that when Britain signed up to the European Union, they signed the free movement and free trade agreements, yet Britain still imposses severe restrictions on the people of Britain as regards to free trade.

Is there such an agreement, and if so, what weight does it have in law as opposed to British "Guidlines" in the amount of european purchased goods brought back to Britain.

Is there such an agreement for the whole of the European Union, which includes Britain, and if so, how can a British Citizen uphold his right to free trade in all it's European Constitutional meaning and stop the government of Britain "riding rough-shod" over our basic human right to do as we please within the law, and not within "trumped up Guidelines" that gready Politicians dream up in their sleep?

To help us understand the sort of answer you are looking for, perhaps you could give us some examples of your particular concerns: how the British Government places severe restrictions on its people in connection with free trade within the EU? Notinasnaid 09:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The HM Revenue and Customs travel page might have some of the information you're after, if you're asking as an individual and not as a business. Personally, I've never had any issues with customs coming into the UK, but I do know that Customs can seize items even though you have kept within the legal limits if they suspect that the items aren't for personal use, and can even impound your car (for eg) if they think it has been used to procure the items to sell for profit. This page also has some good links and criticism. Natgoo 11:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
As Notinasnaid says, it might help to know your specific situation. Have you been prohibited from bringing items into the UK, is it a specific amount of goods you have been prohibited, or are you talking about being charged a levy or duty for imports or those exceeding a certain amount? As far as I know, the EU is a single customs zone, so there is no customs levy to import from another EU country, but member states are entitled to charge excise and/or VAT on imported goods. --Canley 23:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
As you may well be aware, there is an ongoing dispute between Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and the European Union Commission about this. You are allowed to import quantities of alcohol and tobacco into the UK from other EU countries, local tax paid, for your own personal use. Personally I find the limits far more than I could use (3200 cigarettes, 200 cigars, 400 cigarillos, 3kg tobacco, 110 litres of beer, 90 litres of wine, 10 litres of spirits, 20 litres of fortified wine (e.g. port/sherry)) particularly when you can just take a day trip to get more. If HMRC find more than that then they will suspect you of importing for commercial reasons and attempting to evade payment of UK duties; not only will they confiscate the booze and baccy and prosecute you, they will also confiscate the car or van you're using to import the stuff. I suspect that eventually the Commission will prevail over HMRC, but not easily, as there's a HELL of a lot of tax money involved. -- Arwel (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

what was the first church?[edit]

I'm afraid that's far too vague to give an answer to. What do you define as church? A place of worship? A place of worship for a particular religion? In a particular area? A religion? A specific religion? — QuantumEleven | (talk) 11:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

  • If you're looking for the origins of the church in Christianity, see Acts of the Apostles and related articles for information. --Metropolitan90 05:55, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Although perhaps the simplest answer is Jerusalem -- assuming your definition of a "church" is a gathering of individuals identifying with each other through their belief in Jesus as the son of God. The description of Pentecost in Acts (if not the earlier gatherings of the disciples of Jesus post-crucifixion) would qualify. Any answer other than Jerusalem would strike me as suspect, unless you're referring to a religion other than Christianity, or unless you're referring to the first building built expressly for the purpose of housing Christian worship services (in which case I doubt any answer can be satisfactorily established). Jwrosenzweig 07:26, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Each of Paul's epistles are to various churches, mainly in Asia Minor and Greece - Corinth, Colossos, Ephesus, etc. So all of those cities had churches established very early. Zoe ( 16:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC))

Simple Theories of Communism[edit]

Can anyone point me to an indepth outline of how communism could be carried out, for example how everyone contributes to the society and the society benefits everyone equally? Just trying to get some casual theories and discussion without all of the wordy and biased propaganda that normally comes with it. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 05:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there aren't really that many large-scale examples of where Communism *does* work as intended. That's why it has been largely discarded (in practice if not name). You could have a look at egalitarian communities and kibbutzim for some successful small-scale examples of communal philosophies in action. --Robert Merkel 05:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Try John Roemer's For a New Socialism (Harvard University Press, 1994) for one of many models contemporary socialists/communists have proposed to attempt to overcome the failure of large, exclusively centrally-planned economies. --zenohockey 18:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Company Mottos[edit]

Which company is responsible for quoting or using the motto "Stock Up On Quality".

Where is the middle of the Bible[edit]

Where is the middle of the Bible?

Depends on a lot of variables. Whose Bible? In what language? Middle word? Middles sentence? Middle verse? Middle letter? (And, as long as we're asking questions, why do you think it matters?) - Nunh-huh 07:26, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
According to this site, the middle of King James Bible is Psalm 118:8, which reads: "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man." - Akamad 08:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The masoretes kept track of some of stats of this nature (though probably not in the particular form that you want). For example, there's a letter Waw which was written larger than usual in the Hebrew text of Leviticus 11:42, because it was considered to be the middle letter of the Pentateuch. I'm not sure that the masoretes ever calculated the middle of the Hebrew Bible as a whole, since mostly they dealt with the three divisions of Pentateuch, Prophets, and "Writings" (see Tanakh), and the order of books within the "Writings" was not completely fixed. AnonMoos 15:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
At "B", I would say. (Sound like a trick question to me. If you exclude the "The ", it would be at "b".) Lupo 15:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
And if you count the space and consider "the Bible", the "b" is in the middle again. Coincidence? I think not--if that's not a clear sign, I don't know what is. - Taxman Talk 20:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
No, that was the first part of my answer. If you do count the "The ", it's at "B", not at "b". :-) Lupo 10:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I cant understand whats interessting in that bible mathematics its quite random. But quite interessting is the mathematic in most of Johann Sebastian Bachs works. Altrough im not shure if there is already a article about this, if not I consider writing one. helohe (talk) 12:13, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

information please[edit]

Dear Sir,

Could you please be kind enough to pass on to us all the information about ...

West Africa Development Community ( WADECO), Benin

What kind of organisation is this ? Whats its nature of business & affiliation with local government ?

we have been asked to visit lome togo & benin to enter into contract agreement against a payment of USD 6500 for registering our products with the above organisation.

we are not sure whether we should go to these places and hand over such an amount unless we authenticallky know about them and even such an organisation even exists or not ?

we think this is nothing but a FRAUD ......kindly comment. Sincerely, James peck

  • Were you contacted by e-mail? Did they address you as "Dear sir" or "To the company director" or something without directly addressing you by name? If this is the case then I very much think it is a hoax and they are just trying to steal money from you. Delete the e-mail without replying. — JIP | Talk 08:18, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I am in total agreement with User:JIP, this is a common form of an email fraud, I beleive something along the lines of advance fee fraud, more specifically. For the record, googling "West Africa Development Community" resulted in zero matches. You are definately correct in assuming it is a scam. And like User:JIP said, do not reply to the message, it will only invite more spam. - Akamad 08:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

African email scams have been rife in the UK recently (Dec 2005) if any user has unsolicited offer totally leave alone! - My personal message is "if in doubt - Don't!"BigWill(UK) 21:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

What was life like for the german women and children during world war one at the home front?[edit]

Probably rubbish. Please do your own homework. Try starting with History of Germany. Proto t c 15:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Try to imagine what life is for any country at war. - Mgm|(talk) 20:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Probably it was DEATH, because the death rate for the soldiers was astronomical. Any civilian in an area that got overrun by the war, needed to evacuate the area as fast as humanly possible, or get dead very rapidly. AlMac|[[User talk:AlMac|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 22:26, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Widespread food shortages were common, if that helps. Meelar (talk) 21:33, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

What's legal advice?[edit]

Is "legal advice" a technical/legal term? I've seen a lot of disclaimers that things people say "are not legal advice", which makes it sound like there's an actual definition of "legal advice". But the link only redirects to lawyer, and that article doesn't cover it. Are there restrictions on who can give legal advice, or how it can be used? -- Creidieki 14:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

The disclaimers are required because it is illegal to offer legal advice without a license to practice law. It's called unauthorized practice of law here in the States (and I presume in other common law jurisdictions). The problem is that what constitutes "practice of law" is not clearly defined, so what in one situation would not be considered giving legal advice would in another. My cynical thought has always been that lawyers passed that to keep a monopoly for them and they purposefully keep that definition shady so they have some room to nab somebody on it if needed. The guideline is advice that reasonably requires the expertise of a professional attorney should only be given by an attorney. So it's open to interpretation. Hopefully an attorney can offer more details. - Taxman Talk 14:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
But answering the question might be considered legal advice, and they wouldn't want to inadvertently enter into an attorney-client relationship over the Internet. :-) Part of the problem in giving a precise definition is that different U.S. states define what constitutes the "practice of law" differently. Crypticfirefly 05:39, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

"We Three Kings Of Orient Are"[edit]

What are the words to this carol?

See here. Filiocht | The kettle's on 15:48, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

  • One in a taxi, one in a car / one on a scooter, 'ooting 'is 'ooter / following yonder star. At least that's the way I used to sing it in school. --Bob Mellish 15:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
We three kings of Orient are
Bearing gifts we traverse afar
Field and Fountain, Moor and Mountain
Following Yonder Star
Oh, Star of Wonder, Star of Light
Star with royal beauty bright
Westward leading, still proceeding
Guide us to thy perfect light

Born a king on Bethlehem plain
Gold I bring to crown him again
King forever, ceasing never"
Over us all to reign
Frankincense to offer have I
Incense owns a Deity high
Prayer and praising; all men raising
Worship him, God on high
Myrrh is mine, its bitter purfume
Leads a life of gathering gloom
Sorrowing, sighing, bleeding, dying
Sealed in a stone cold tomb
Glorious now, behold him, arise
King, and God, and sacrifice
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Earth to Heaven replies.

smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 16:49, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I was taught a slightly different version by my father:

We four Beatles of Liverpool are
John in a taxi, Paul in a car,
George on a scooter, beeping his hooter
Following Ringo Starr.

Thryduulf 17:39, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Another one to make the five year olds giggle:

We three kings of Leicester Square
Selling ladies underwear
It's fantastic, no elastic
Buy your granny a pair

AJR | Talk 19:34, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

And then there's:

We three Kings of Orient are,
trying to smoke an exploding cigar.
It was loaded, it exploded ...

... BOOM! ...

Silent night, holy night ...

Zoe ( 21:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC))

Addressing a Bishop.[edit]

What is the proper way to address a Bishop? Your Eminance?

  • "Your Excellency" or "Your Grace", apparently. Eminence is a Cardinal. Shimgray | talk | 15:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Speeding Ticket on an Indian Reservation[edit]

What happens if I do not pay a speeding ticket that I received on the ponderosa reservation in New Mexico? Is it different from not paying a ticket received off of a res?

Who issued the ticket? City? County? State? Federal? Reservation? Rent-a-cop? --Kainaw (talk) 16:48, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The Indian Reservations are Federal territory. I can't understand why you shouldn't have to pay a ticket you got on a road, especially since the big roads are usually interstate highways. Depending on the road, you might have had a county sheriff or a state patroller or some other government crime enforcement agency give you the ticket.--Screwball23 talk 04:24, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
  • If you don't pay your tickets, regardless of where they came from, it could land you in jail. Instead of wondering what happens if you don't pay, I would recommend you just pay it, or challenge it if you believe you were not there or not speeding. Not paying isn't going to help. - Mgm|(talk) 20:34, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
But read this before you pay up. --Shantavira 16:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

The Michael/Jesus connection[edit]

Good morning, I am currently in a debate with my wife (she is a Jehovah Witness) and we are discussing many differences between her believes and mine (mainstream Christian). I am currently putting together information on how no one before the Jehovah Witness organization (that I’ve been able to find anyway, hence why I’m here) has believed that Michael the Archangel is Jesus or vise versa. That is to say at least in the way they believe. I do understand that the 7th Day Adventists believe that Michael and Jesus are the same but they still believe in Christ’s deity (again in my limited understanding).

So my question is, who in history were the first to believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel prior to Jesus’ birth on earth?

Any and all information on this topic would be great.

Thank you,


I know of no other religion that considers Michael and Jesus one and the same. Don't the Latter Day Saints believe that Michael and Adam were one and the same? It isn't the same, but a similar belief. --Kainaw (talk) 19:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually Urantia also identifies Michael and Jesus. I don't have any date, but I'd be extremely surprised if this went back any further than the late 19th century. Certainly the 1911 Catholic Encylopedia has nothing on it. [17]
  • This was all part of a "Great Awakening" which started in the "burned-over district" of the US in the early 19th century. A good place to learn more about these trends is in the article Restorationism. The Mormons, Millerites, Jehovah's Witnesses and other sects were all part of this movement. Halcatalyst 22:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!! So it would be safe for me to say that prior to the late 1700's to mid 1800's were the first to develop this line of thinking, correct?

  • Right. The Great Awakening, like the Romantic movement, was a counterreaction to the Enlightenment. Of course, the Restorationists claim special access to primitive Christianity either through direct revelation (as with Joseph Smith) or the correctness of their own biblical interpretations as against all others. Generally all these, including Jehovah's Witnesses, like to use the Bible to attack opponents' beliefs and defend their own positions. I call this "Bible thumping." Halcatalyst 21:13, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Famous musicians that started late?[edit]

What are some famous/influential musicians that did not start practicing a musical insturment in their childhood?

  • Hector Berlioz only started at age 19. Within months he was turning out respectable compositions. Halcatalyst 21:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • That's not true at all. The question was not about composing music but about practising musical instruments. In his childhood, Berlioz played the guitar, flute and piano, although he was never much good as a pianist. But if we're also talking about how late composers started composing, Berlioz started well before 19. According to my Grove 5, he was given a guitar by his father and "... even as a child insisted on composing some trifles in a clumsy way, which he played or caused to be played in the family circle. ... In his adolescence he wrote a quintet for flute and strings ... as well as certain songs, one of which he was to make use of, 12 or 13 years later, in the first movement of the Symphonie Fantastique. When about 16 he began to write rather more ambitious things, notably "un pot-pourri composé de morceaux choisis et concertants pour flute, cor, deux violins et basse", which he did not hesitate to submit to the Paris publisher Pleyel." JackofOz 23:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for setting me straight. Halcatalyst 21:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
  • U2 bassist Adam Clayton only started playing the bass after the band was formed, which was when every member was in their late leenage years.

Wow, thanks for the help, I'm suprised there aren't more examples.

Wholeshot ? meaning[edit]

Hi there - typical question from a Brit - what does "wholeshot" mean? - I've heard it referenced in racing sports and on (sadly) computer games - it seems a totally american expression (for totally American - see not English!). I and my 5 year old would love to know - thanks.. Will BigWill(UK) 20:58, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it's a common term and I'm not sure an American would be more likely to know it than a Brit, but I do think it's "holeshot". One definition from the web: "This term is usually only used when talking about drag racers. The driver who gets the faster reaction time out of the box is usually said to have pulled a holeshot." - Nunh-huh 21:33, 14 December 2005 (UTC) offers no definition and I (19yr male american) haven't heard of it. Therefore, it isn't common slang. 21:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Holeshot is used reasonably often in describing motorcross or supercross racing starts; like in the drag racing sense, it means the guy who gets the fastest start off the line. In these racing forms, all the riders start in a line so the rider with the fastest reaction time and most accelerative bike will get to the first corner first, a considerable advantage particularly on tight supercross tracks. --Robert Merkel 23:26, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Bush at Harvard Redux[edit]

Everyone has heard that George W. Bush got C's at Yale. But how did he do academically during the time he studied for his MBA at Harvard? Halcatalyst 21:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Wasn't this answered the first time you asked? - Mgm|(talk) 11:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
    • No, it wasn't. No responses at all, at least that I saw (and I checked back pretty frequently). I'm just curious; if they don't quit or flunk out, most people get better grades in graduate school than as undergrads. Also, MBA school is more "hands-on" than most undergraduate study, and of course the students are usually older and presumably more mature. Some schools require work experience before admission and so student motivation might be improved. Actually, I don't know when Bush attended Harvard nor how old he was. In view of these considerations, I'm wondering if he might have done better academically at Harvard than he did at Yale. Halcatalyst 20:55, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

storia sofia[edit]

The famous Swedish ship " Vasa " sank in Stocholm harbour in 1628. It seems a coincidence, but did another ship sink in Gothenberg harbour in the same year, and, if so, was it named the " Storia Sofia ".

Most grateful any answers. Hubert.

No. But there was a ship called Stora Sofia which sank outside Gothenburg (or Göteborg) harbour on May 25, 1645. Lupo 08:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Reporting Credit[edit]

How do you go about reporting to a credit agency when someone you have a lease agreement with defaults?

Assuming you are in the US, call one of the three credit bureau's and ask. Actually that would work wherever you are that has a credit rating agency. - Taxman Talk 20:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

December 15[edit]

value of 1929 20dollar bill[edit]

We are looking to find the value of a 20 dollar bill. Do you have any idea how we can do this via internet?

We've tried everywhere we can think of but are completely stuck. If you have any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Bonnie @ E-Mail removed

If you mean "how much is $20 in 1929 worth in today's money", the answer is $216.09. If you mean "I have a 20 dollar bill printed in 1929 and I want to know its value as a collectible" then I can't help you with that. —Slicing (talk) 01:18, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
A quick Google search yields this page which states that it would be worth about $30 now. Of course, that's probably assuming it is in good condition. —Slicing (talk) 04:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Note that my previous answers assumed you were referring to US currency. —Slicing (talk) 11:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Vague memory[edit]

Can anybody recall a film/tv programme - possibly fictional, where a character tricks a computer into thinking the crew are dead, in order to access restricted personel files? It's been bugging me for days. Dmn 01:42, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Red Dwarf? David | Talk 12:01, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


I am doing some research on the Universe as related to Philosophy. I have the dictionary and scientific definition of the Universe, but am looking for a philosophical definition of the universe. Does anyone know where I can find one?

You could take a look at this page. It's fairly brief, but it's a start. —Slicing (talk) 06:55, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that considers the universe as a whole. This article is a good place to start. It has lots of links and references to follow up on. Halcatalyst 19:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Music(1960's) ; One-Hit-Wonders[edit]

It is customary to ask a question, specifying a country where appropriate, and to sign your comments. Assuming you mean the United States, the information you seek is here. TheMadBaron 13:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

kaaba- was it hindu temple?[edit]

It was a pre-Islamic house of native Arab worship before it was dedicated to Islam, according to Kaaba. - Nunh-huh 04:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Ka'aba is the the place where muslims faces to it while they pray to God. This is a place on earth which is just beneath the God (Allah's) a'rsh is there over the seventh sky. Alla's Mercy always come down upon it, of which muslims take advantage of it while they go to ka'ba in Mecca and they take seven rounds of it, which is called as tawaf e ka'aba. This is also a big worship for which they will be rewarded a lot by the God Allah swt.

Canadian Politics[edit]

In what ways does women's representation in Canada's politics need to be expanded?

For this point I was planning on arguing the historical significance of how women have been in the shadows in Canadian politics, i.e. stats on how many women hold seats, etc.

I was just wondering how exactly this should come about and answer the above question. education? change POV on politics, emphasis intellect above power, etc.

Thank you for the help!

The most important principle to consider when answering this is the necessity of doing your own homework. If you are asking about our article, the best place to talk about how to improve it is at the appropriate article talk page. DJ Clayworth 16:35, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


how is this cult practised?could someone explain the significance of the red string? do they worship a superior being? im just curious about it and any info is better than none.thanx! me-- 10:55, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Are you sure you're not looking for Kabbalah? - Mgm|(talk) 11:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Oops! my bad.thanx for the link! do you believe in "kabbalah"?

I think that's a reasonable misspelling, so I'm going to create a redirect if there isn't one. DJ Clayworth 16:33, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I've seen Kabbala, Kabbalah, Kabala, Kabalah, Cabala, Cabbala, Cabalah...most correct would be QBL or Qabala... --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I need info on a type of button and I hope some one can help me.[edit]

Hi, Thank you in advance for your help. I'm looking for the history of what is called the "Bethlehem Button". Here is what I know about it. It is made of mother of pearl, came only from Bethlehem and was hand carved by___________? They are also sometimes refured to as Bethlehem Pearls, or Bethlehem Pearl Buttons.

I was told that at one time whey were called Jordan Buttons, but I'm not sure that is true.

Here is what I'm looking for,

When were they first made? I.E. year, as in 1900 or before. Where were they first made? Were they actualy first made in Bethlehem or in Jordan or were they made be the sea of Galilee? I am looking for the who, what, when, where, why, and how. If at all possible.

This may sound like a joke but it is very important to me. This is the business I'm in and everything I've learned has been passed down to my from my suppliers. And I need to find out more detail and I've looked every place I can think of. And I have no one else to turn to. So please help me, please?????

Thank you for your help. I hope whoever you are you have a great Holiday Season and a safe and Happy New Year. My name is Mar. Thanks again-- 11:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Perl button? Oh wait, professional deformation alert! Googling for +pearl +button +bethlehem gives quite a few relevant results. Among the first are [18] (with images), [19] (also with images, plus an e-mail address of someone who might know more), plus many eBay listings. The American Museum of Natural History has some general background, and there's a site on the U.S. pearl button industry. (I know, that's only tangentially relevant, but interesting all the same.) Don't know if that helps you any... Lupo 15:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

English/Latin Rivalry Question[edit]

There are a few links there that say the rivalry is the longest constant high school football rivalry in the U.S (a few local papers, the NFL), and there are a few on the talk page say it isn't (USA Today, Boston Globe). There also may be issues over the term "ongoing" since other rivalries have been going on for longer, but have stopped at a certain period. What's the "longest"? I'm almost wondering if this is more worthy of an rfc, but I figured I'd go here first. karmafist 19:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Ruislip, Middlesex[edit]


I understand that "Ruislip" in Middlesex has been spelt in about sixty different ways since the original entry in the domesday book in or around 1066.

I know of about five different versions to date. It would be much appreciated if you could either provide me with a listing of "Ruislip" spellings, or direct me to where I may best continue my quest. (I am interested specifically in a spelling which has only six letters or less. All the ones I know have seven or more.)

Both my wife and I lived in South Ruislip between 1945 and 1961 (the year we were wed) and we emmigrated to Canada in 1967.

Thank you

Robert D Norman - Ontario, Canada

I could only come up with three - Rye (from the Domesday Book), Riselip (from an 1868 Gazette) and the current spelling. The lovely people at the Ruislip, Northwood and Eastcote Historical Society may be in more of a position to help - the contacts page is where you'll find the secretary's email address. Good luck! Natgoo 12:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

World eggs[edit]

Aside from Chinese, Egyptian, Finnish, and Greek mythology, which cultures have world egg creation myths? ᓛᖁ♀ 22:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

In the Hindu religion, Brahma hatched from a golden egg, which was the birth of the world. This page might also have some useful links. Natgoo 12:27, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

December 16[edit]

Is there potential for a resolution to the conflict in Kashmir?[edit]

No question beyond the section title.

That isn't really the sort of question we answer here, this is for factual questions, not open-ended discussion topics. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:31, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

All signs point to yes Sherurcij (talk) (bounties) 11:07, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

You might start with Wiki articles on the topic such as History of the Kashmir conflict then go to discussion of what content improvements have some consensus such as the prospects for peace there. User:AlMac|(talk) 08:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Global Economy[edit]

Why is it that there aren't many countries in the world that are neither rich nor poor?

You are referring to the Second World nations. Well, those nations do encompass a huge chunk of the world as well, and they extend in just about every region of land in the Soviet Union's reach. It is interesting that these nations are all pretty poor but not extremely poor. That is because they all experimented with industrial communism--and failed--but reached an economic system where individuals were limited to certain wealth (as in China before free trade loosening) and the government helped to provide to level out the extremely poor. You can see these nations are gaining some wealth in the new economic system of capitalism and are experiencing some growth. You can devise your own opinion of communism based on these nation's histories and economic success rates.--Screwball23 talk 04:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't believe that to be true. "rich" and "poor" are highly subjective terms. If you take the very poorest nations of the world (mostly in sub-Saharan Africa), then most people in the world are significantly better off. And if you take the very richest countries in the world (mostly in Europe and North America) then most of the world is significantly worse off. The largest countries in the world (China, India, Russia, Pakistan, Indonesia) belong to this group in-between. It's not an even distribution. The richest countries are much farther above the global average than the poorest are below it. So it only looks like there are no in-between countries if you define "rich" as "as rich as the richest". If you define "rich" as "above average", most people are in-between. --BluePlatypus 13:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
  • To only name a few representative nations, Mexico, Poland, Qatar, and Malaysia tend to conduct their foreign relations as if they do not consider themselves to be among the wealthy or impoverished nations. If you would categorize any of those nations as either "rich" or "poor", then you're probably not leaving much of a middle ground at all, and defining your way into this dichotomy. If you would consider them all to be "neither rich nor poor", well, then, there's a representative answer. --Mareino 19:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The term "second world" although descriptive, is not accurate and should not be used. It was formed during the Cold War by the US government to refer exclusively to communist nations and their allies.

The Asteroid Threat[edit]

People have talked alot about the possibility of an asteroid,comet, or meteorite colliding with the earth and destroying it.I have 3 questions about that:

Is it possible for a giant asteroid or comet to destroy the whole world? If yes, than how serious is the threat an asteroid collision? How much should we people be concerned about it?

See the article Impact event. It depends on whether you mean actual total destruction of the planet, or just the extinction of mankind or all life on Earth. The former is extremely unlikely, but an impact event which throws up so much dust into the atmosphere as to block out sunlight is more likely, and such an event is believed to have wiped out the dinosaurs. --Canley 03:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Also see gravitational binding energy. The biggest impact event in Earth's history created the Moon, and that took a Mars-sized object. It's extremely unlikely that a similar event will happen. ᓛᖁ♀ 04:03, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
PS, this would probably be more relevant in the Science Reference Desk than the Humanities one. --Canley 04:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The third question is a social question, and all I can say is that NASA doesn't seem to be very concerned. As for the questions about the seriousness of impact, play with this [20]. It's generally regarded as well researched and consistent with our limited observations. --Mareino 19:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible... Absolutely yes. The Permian extinction was probably a complex set of disasters, with a 5-mile diameter rock's impact/explosion as a prime factor, and in that event (about 250,000,000 years ago), it is thought that over 90% of all *species* were destroyed. See Permian-Triassic_extinction_event. By comparison, the ~3 mile rock that wiped out the dinosaurs (KT boundary) took out maybe 90% of all life (but not of all species). These kinds of events did their damage in forms of destruction and violence with no recent example for comparison, and reference to "dust blocking the sun" is simply inadequate to describe the process.
Fragment G impact scar
Energy released: six million megatons
Diameter: 12,000 kilometers
There is one event we can look to... comet Shoemaker-Levy 9. When it struck Jupiter, it left giant blotches in Jupiter's atmosphere. The largest was the size of Earth. ᓛᖁ♀ 22:42, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
How serious is the threat... There's two parts to this. The potential for destruction is very serious. The probability of the event is still small. But it is not vanishingly small. The Tunguska, Siberia forest was flattened just 97 years ago by a relatively small object that by a very minor trajectory change could have crossed into Europe. The flattened area is about the size of Rome, Italy. Several large iron-nickel meteorites are buried in Saudi Arabia ([Wabar]) having fallen there just 450 years ago. Pictures of bolides over Colorado and just last week over Australia have been published. Such things are near misses that could have done great damage.
How much should we people be concerned about it? One respondent says it's a social question. If you blithely can say Katrina was a social question...implying that such are not for the likes of us to work on, I most strenuously disagree and acting on that have developed and patented a system for monitoring space. It still doesn't solve the problem, but early detection and constant monitoring is a useful first step. Building on the earlier respondent's link to NASA, I would point out that they have a goal of detecting 90% of the 1 kM diameter NEAs by 2011 to generate a catalog. Good idea...if only the NEA's would stop bumping one another and changing orbits...
How much should we people be concerned about it? So. Katrina. And yet, there are two parts even here. Katrina happening over Patagonia is not the event it was in New Orleans. Tunguska is and was unpopulated. The major portion of the earth is water, so the big targets are oceans, not land, not little targets like cities. And besides, if something the size of Manhattan heads our way, what could we do about it? So maybe the best answer is that we shouldn't be concerned, in the same sense as we don't really worry about being struck by lightning. But my take is that just as we want the weather report to tell us about Katrina, knowing we can't stop it, we want to know if Something Wicked This Way Comes (apologies to Ray Bradbury), if only to try to step aside.
I really enjoy this topic, but will hold off to see if the subject has "legs", and also to see if the Wiki wonks ;) want more links to statements, etc.

William A. Hoffman III
16 December 2005

If it comes close, we'll nuke it. If this is the most serious thing you have to worry about, mix a drink and consider yourself lucky :-)

  • I find this topic very interesting and hope that Mr. Hoffman or others will make sure the information gets into Wikipedia (as opposed to here). Halcatalyst 03:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • No weapon ever used would do much to a nickel-iron asteroid of more than a few dozen meters if it were not found early. If it comes close, we will simply watch it. On the other hand, the so-called "rock pile", a loose aggregation held together by gravity might be well-handled by a nuke or three, or ten, although some of it would still make it. Wikipedia has an article on Novaya_Zemlya, where the largest nuke ever tested was detonated, but you'll need to search the net for pictures to see how little real damage was done.
As for making sure the information gets into Wikipedia, I'll work on it. OTH, why "as opposed to here", where the object is to have questions asked and answered?
  • OTH (and now I'm an economist <g>) I'd like to move it into a more specifically science or technology focused discussion area and if the Wiki folks would agree, perhaps we could take the whole Q&A to another board. William A. Hoffman III 18 December 2005
  • I said "as opposed to here" because then it would be part of an encyclopedia article rather than the reference desk, which goes back only a few days before being archived and, uh, lost in space. Halcatalyst 00:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I hadn't realized it would be scrolling off the top, even while finding it easier and easier to get to... As an article, would it be subject to review and editing just like this is? How about references to original work or original thinking (scientifically based and justifiable, but not necessarily proven)? I presume an archive can be retrieved, but haven't done it. Any guidance would be most welcome. This topic needs a full and open review. WAH 20 Dec 05
    • All articles can be edited by anybody. Some are peer reviewed. This is a Good Thing, IMHO. References to original work are highly desirable, though original work itself is prohibited, for reasons I don't fully understand. I'm inquiring about this at Help. Halcatalyst 05:16, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
    • And behold, the answer appeared there seven minutes later. Halcatalyst 05:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
    • As I was informed over there, the correct term for what we are not to do on WP is "original research," because like any encyclopedia Wikipedia is a tertiary source. Articles are indeed original collective work. Halcatalyst 14:11, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Auroville compared to Anarchosyndicalism[edit]

In howfar can Auroville be compared to a Anarchist/Anarchosyndicalist comunity? --helohe (talk) 09:45, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

  • You can compare everything, but I don't see how Auroville has any anarchist qualities, so personally I wouldn't compare the two. - Mgm|(talk) 10:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Ok thanks. Do you know of any active anarchist comunities? --helohe (talk) 10:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Freetown Christiania is pretty anarchist. smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 18:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
JesusRadicals is an active on-line community. Halcatalyst 00:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Industrial Revolution[edit]

I was wondering where I could find a lot of info on the Industrial Revolution including why it occured first in England.

Thank you

Battle Of Troy.[edit]

What are the measurements of the trojan horse?

Dear Sir and/ or Madam,

My name is Lorenzo Damiani and I am in dire need of an answer. I am taking part in an excelled course for school and for a project it is my task to make a scale model of the trojan horse. After viewing your page I have seen that you have an immense amount of information on the subject itself. After thorough investigation of many websites, we have not been able to find any information on the measurements of any replicated trojan horse. I would be greatly thankful if you would be able to provide us with the measurements of any replicated horse known. It would be greatly beneficial to our project.

Much thanks, Lorenzo Damiani.

  • If you need to make a scale model, it should be easy. The Trojan Horse was roughly built to scale to resemble a real horse. Therefore, your model can also be based on the rough dimensions of a real horse.--Mareino 19:21, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I hope you are aware that the story is based on Homer's Odyssey and our best available evidence is that Homer never saw the horse, and reported legends that might have been centuries old when he wrote them down. No dimensions are provided in his three brief references, so you get to make it up and no one can disprove your version. Good luck.alteripse 19:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
  • A scale model implies a scale factor. The same model, say LxWxH 18x6x12 (in ANY units: cm, inches, or sugar cubes) would be useable for the "real" Trojan Horse if it were 54 feet long, 18 feet wide and 36 feet high. So as Mareino and Alteripse say, you decide on the "real" dimensions and just keep the ratio of LxWxH. On the other hand, state in your report that you've had to make an estimate because there are no facts known, and then reveal how you made your estimate. It will look like a better job. To make an estimate, get a toy horse from somewhere and see how many smaller (not rider size) soldier figures you could fit into it. Use smaller and smaller figures (you may have to make your own from clay) until you could expect to fit enough into the horse to have a fair chance of beating the forces inside the fortress. Would you take a chance with just 5, even if they were champions? When you're satisfied with that, assume your small soldiers are 65" tall and do the multiplication for the horse size. Recheck your thinking by imagining how many soldiers with spears you could get in a car...pickup...jitney. ReRecheck by thinking about how heavy the "horse" will be made with shiplap 2" thick and containing all those men (what if the Trojans decided it would make a good entry-way ornament and left it there?). Try to imagine it was really you doing the design back then, and the victory was important to you, and you will have a model and report on its design that will be a first rate piece of schoolwork. And maybe even fun to do, if it's not due Monday.

WAHIII 17 December 2005

Dear Lorenzo, Did you read the information posted above? Did it do you any good?


Possession of a firearm with a felony firearms charge[edit]

I have been searching for information on what my rights are if I have a conviction of a felony? I had been robbed several times at my business and the suspects again showed up to rob my business. I had told them several times to get away from my equipment; they had at that point gotton back into their truck and tried to run me down. I fired a shot between the two men causing them to stop for a moment. My question would be can I also be charged with felony firearms charge while trying to protect myself? There have been no charges brought against me. Thank you for any information -- 18:20, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

As a lawyer I am telling you anything you say to a police officer can be used against you. If you tell the story you told on wikipedia you will be arrested and most likely go back to prison. If you just even tell them you own a gun you will go back to prision!

Perhaps you should consult a lawyer, and also ask the police. In many jurisdictions there is a big difference in your rights if the perpetrators are hit by your bullets while they are in the process of doing the crime at your place of business, as opposed to if you go chasing after them out of your premises. User:AlMac|(talk) 18:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
  • A lot would depend on the jurisdiction and country you are in. Not every country allows people to own fire arms, let alone use them. - Mgm|(talk) 09:44, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

What can I write in a novel without being demanded or persecuted?[edit]

hi! i was wondering if i could mention band names, critique political groups, critique religious practices, mention famous people and stuff like that in a novel without running much risk besides maybe being excommunicated from the catholic church. (cause i don't really care much about that, and if i get excommunicated it's fine with me!)


(posted by; according to Community Geotarget IP Project, the question-poster is in Peru. This might help focus your answer. --Mareino 19:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC))

  • This very much depends on what nation or social group you fear persecution from. Here in the United States, the First Amendment allows you to write just about anything and not face government persecution -- especially if you're writing a political or religious critique. Whether a band persecutes you depends on the band. I hear that Metallica doesn't have a sense of humor. --Mareino 19:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

thank you, well i fear persecution from the catholic church first of all, then, from leftish political groups in my country, then from people i have based my characters on ( but they don't worry me much since i've used other names, but they'll know right away it's them i'm talking about) and also from some bands and famous people i'll mention, but i wont critique, just mention, and/or praise.

I doubt bands or famous will mind, as long as they don't actually appear as characters, nor will family or friends provided the characters portraying them do not portray them disfavourably. Unfortunately, religious groups (of any faith) tend to be rather less lenient (see Salman Rushdie, Dan Brown or Jerry Springer: The Opera). smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 13:01, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
I doubt very much this information will matter much to you, but part of the duty of the Reference Desk is to educate and inform people not only of the things they asked, but also of what they didn't. I just wanted to note that many people seem to feel that excommunication is a risk run by people who oppose the Roman Catholic Church, and they are misinformed. Excommunication refers specifically to a member of the church being barred from participation in the Eucharist (also called Holy Communion....hence ex-communicate). If you're not a communicating member of the church in question, excommunication will not occur. You might be denounced in other ways, but since the Middle Ages, it's been my general impression that the traffic in denouncing heretics has abated somewhat as far as the Vatican is concerned. I doubt very much this knowledge will impact you directly, but as you seem to believe that you will run afoul of this denomination, I figured a little additional information might be of assistance to you. Jwrosenzweig 07:11, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Of course, during the Middle Ages, it was used quite enthusiastically as a political tool... in Durham, there were four seperate attempts to excommunicate the chapter of monks between 1153 and 1283 - twice over money, twice over power disputes - and the Bishop was excommunicated at least once. One of these excommunications was prevented by an armed mob chasing the Archbishop of York out of the city. Ah, ecclesiastical culture... Shimgray | talk | 18:43, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you so much Jwrosenzweig!!! u rock! :)


how do I register a pseudonym and still have the rights to my work without risking being known? and also, can I, being peruvian, register my pseudonym and novel in the US? or is there any way I can register it 'internationally'? and also, if I register my pseudonym under my real name and ID ( and I have to do that)do I risk being known because of someone investigating in indecopy ( a peruvian institution for intelectual property) or something?

We don't give legal advice here, but for what it's worth I have never heard of the concept that a pseudonym has to be registered, and I think I would have heard of it if it existed in the major English-speaking countries. Peru might be different. --Anonymous, 06:50 UTC, December 17, 2005

Actually I don't know if I have to register it!...i just thought i had to if latter on I wanted to claim ownership of the book, because if I don't register my pseudonym somehow...someone else can take the credit and i won't be able to win the trial u know...i'm just planning everything, because i do not live in a tolerant society.

Perhaps the best way would be to prepare an outline of the work and bring it to a publisher. Ask them how publication would be done to protect your identity. You have many mixed-together issues that need to be clarified by speaking with a professional - copyright protection vs identity theft, ensuring fame or fortune vs retaining anonymity are just two.

thank you, I was thinking of publishing my work in the US, or online instead of in my country the traditional way, so that way i don't risk anything, but is there any way I can do this? like publish online under a pseudonym and still claim my work whenever i want to, with some sort of document that says I am the person with that pseudonym?

  • As far as I know, you don't need to register pseudonyms. They're meant to protect your identity. Only your publisher is supposed to know it, so you need to make a deal with the publisher to make sure they don't reveal it. - Mgm|(talk) 09:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

December 17[edit]

Place Names[edit]

How many places have been named from the indigenous peoples' word/phrase for "I don't understand you" or something similar?

I've never heard of any cases of this particular misunderstanding; there is a story that kangaroo has that meaning, but it's false. It is true that the name of Canada derives from a native word that means village, but that's a different misunderstanding. --Anonymous, 07:00 UTC, December 17, 2005
According to our article on it, the name Yucatan is derived from something similar to that, but I don't know if this is confirmed. I can't think of any others. -- Vardion 07:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
The story that Yucatán derives from one of the Mayan languages —presumably 16th C. Yucatec Maya— as an expression similar in meaning to "I don't understand you" can be traced back to at least c.1541, where it appears in the History of the Indians of New Spain written by Fray Toribio de Benavente, a.k.a. Motolinia; variations of this tale also appear in Francisco López de Gómara's 1552 biography of Hernán Cortés, and also in the c.1566 Relación de las Cosas de Yucatán by Diego de Landa. However, an alternative etymology is given by Bernal Díaz del Castillo, one of the original conquistadores, who says in his The True History of the Conquest of New Spain that it derives from the word yuca, meaning cassava, out of which bread was made. A third explanation (one supported by the OED) has it that it comes from a word for "language, speech" in Chontal Maya, yokotan, which also signified the region. See also Francisco Hernández de Córdoba (discoverer of Yucatán), which contains a discussion on the origin, as well as a quite detailed account of the first Spanish expedition to the Yucatán peninsula. --cjllw | TALK 13:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
See List of tautological place names for places whose names are derived from native language terms for a type of feature, such as the Mississippi River (Mississippi meaning "Big River" in Algonquian languages) or the more extreme case of Torpenhow Hill in Cumbria, England where successive invaders took the existing residents' name for the hill and added their own word for "hill", giving us a name which literally means "Hill Hill Hill Hill". -- AJR | Talk 01:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Album sales[edit]

I just wanted to know how copies of cherrelle firstree albums sold thanks

south park[edit]

sorry for asking so much, i was wondering if i could talk about south park in a book, (like not exclusively about south park i mean, just comment on the show for a couple of scenes maybe). or they could sue me somehow...

A, B, and A+B are possible states of the universe, perhaps in descending order of probability as A>A+B>B. And it isn't so much to ask unless you want extensive speculation on imagined details. alteripse 19:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

haha :( ...mmm..well nice sense of humour dude, but i need a real answer, please :(
The obliquity of the answer was supposed to make you realize how vague and poorly constructed your question was. Anyone can refer to a television show in a book. Anyone can file a lawsuit (at least in the US). If you wanted a discussion of whether the way you want to "talk about" South Park material is likely to attract litigation you will have to provide a whole lot more details than you did. What I gave you was the best anyone could do with what you offered. alteripse 18:22, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
  • The creators of any American TV show, movie, novel, or other creative work can sue you for infringing upon their intellectual property if you copy their material. Merely discussing it is OK, even if you use examples. --Mareino 00:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

literary Villains[edit]

What literary villain was never charged for his crimes and why?

Captain Crocker killed Sir Eustace, and Holmes caught him (Abbey Grange), but was satisfied with his story, so never revealed it to the police. Holmes let a couple of others go as I recall. It's literature, but perhaps not Literature, and the most obvious answer to your original question is that many villains were never charged for their crimes throughout even Literature, because they were killed, not captured. So how about a hint, year or decade of publication, story venue, genre, hmmmm, a clue?


Who is the French Author who wrote Carmen on which the opera was based?```~

Yale University 1929[edit]

Did any of the graduates from Yale 1929 become famous?

-- 20:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

"The first Yale class to award degrees to more than 700 graduates, '29 produced many notable alumni, including two whose contributions shaped Yale intellectually and culturally in the 20th century more than any other -- Paul Mellon and A. Whitney Griswold." [21] For what it's worth, I'd heard of Griswold, so I suspect that means fame of a sort. Shimgray | talk | 20:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

sitting tara[edit]

What is the significance of the sitting tara?

See Tara. Seated is her usual posture. --Shantavira 08:50, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

why is it[edit]

Why are nearly all the popes buried in rome (including non itailians) (posted by

  • First off, that's where most of them died. Second, Pope John Paul II was the first non-Italian Pope since the 1500s. Until very recently, transporting dead bodies over long distances was rather difficult to do because of rot. And finally, for the devout Catholic, being buried in the Vatican is quite an honor.--Mareino 00:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Just as a side note, many (individual) popes are buried in more than one place - that is, with the corpse in one site, and the viscera in another. Many churches in Rome have pope parts. - Nunh-huh 00:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

December 18[edit]

Orthodox Churches in Zagreb Croatia[edit]

I am trying to research data on my grandfather. He died in 1908 and would like to search church registries. Please advise. Thank you, Norma 01:44, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

  • You may please try this site [22] where there are a few links on genealogy, ancestry and churches --Tachs 08:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

need to decipher Japanese pillar in Mongol_Invasions_of_Japan[edit]

can anyone help me identify this image, lowest bottom right? Mongol_Invasions_of_Japan it is either critical....or deletable...we don't know since we can't read Kanji. it has no caption and needs one bad. can anyone help me or send me to a wikijapanese person who can help?

  • It says this: 史跡元寇防塁 . Now you just have to figure out what those symbols mean. — 0918BRIAN • 2005-12-18 03:15

Thank yoo!!!

How Many Teetotalers?[edit]

The page on Teetotalism includes an external link that says 30% of Americans are "abstainers". That's a much larger number than most people would guess (I wonder if they're counting people who "seldom" drink rather than people who "never" drink). Elsewhere I've heard 20%, which is still a very large number.

It would be interesting to get some better numbers on this-- somebody must have the data, but a quick google search didn't turn up anything useful. Anyone have any ideas? -Rbean 06:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

  • This could be a case where you need to go to a good library rather than Googling. There you could find (with the help of a reference librarian) standard sources in medicine and social sciences which would help you get to your goal faster than on the Internet. Halcatalyst 19:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't followed the links, but if the page really refers simply to the percentage "of Americans", well, that would include children, wouldn't it? So if someone wanted to inflate the statistics... enough said. --Anonymous, 05:45 UTC, December 19, 2005


What were Malcolm Xs and Reverend MLKs opinions about each other? Did they ever met,and if they did when and where? Please answer,Thank you

Try the MLK and Malcom X articles.

I tried looking at them before to answer this question, but the answer doesn't seem to be there. MLK and Malcolm X did live during the same time period, but the only link between them I could derive was some sort of march MLK was in that Malcolm X didn't approve of or something. Quite vague.--Ridge Racer 07:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
See this page from MLK's "autobiography". -- Mwalcoff 06:10, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


Can you tell me more about word "Mausberg" and also about the late rapper using that name(Mausberg),because there is mentioning of him in couple of articles on wikipedia,but I cant really find out more about him or the word "Mausberg Thanks

[23] is an article written shortly after he was murdered that has quite a lot of information about him. —Slicing (talk) 08:11, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

c-sharp major[edit]

Hello, this is KeeganB. Why is c-sharp major so rare in classical music?

The more sharps or flats in the key signature, the harder it is to play the music, because the player has to remember all of the "rules" from the key signature and apply them, where relevant, to every note in the whole piece. C sharp major (and the very rare A sharp minor) has 7 sharps (F,C,G,D,A,E,B), and there are only 7 notes altogether, so every single note is sounded differently than it appears on the printed stave. Any accidentals (which could only be double sharps, flats, or naturals) would just further complicate an already complex intellectual task. Same problem for C flat major/A flat minor, which have 7 flats. JackofOz 13:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Another reason is that the enharmonic flat key, D flat major, has only 5 flats and is easier for musicians to read. Most composers who want these sounds to be produced would tend to ask the player to think of the piece as being in D flat major rather than as being in C sharp major - but there are some exceptions, obviously. Either way, the music sounds exactly the same. See C-sharp major. JackofOz 02:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Navy of the ancient world[edit]

In my study of ancient history, I read over and over of Carthage's legendary sea power, of Vandal naval dominance...but what ships did these civilizations use? what were they called? what did they look like? how did they attack other ships? I can't find this anywhere.

Nick Nick 15:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately both Vandal and Carthaginian history is poorly documented and often written by their enemies so there is little fine detail. The Galley and Trireme articles give details of the kind of shipping used in the general era. MeltBanana 22:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Also check out Greek fire. User:AlMac|(talk) 15:32, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Hospital Workforce Diversity[edit]

I am exploring the creation of a list of "Best Hospitals for Diversity." It would focus on workforce diversity. There are several lists for corporations, but none that I know of in the healthcare business. Does anyone know if such a list presently exists in healthcare?

Most hospitals in big American cities have a great deal of workforce diversity simply because they have a whole spectrum of jobs from minimum wage to educated professional and middle to top management. Diversity lists are usually compiled by companies to brag about their social consciousness or by those who wish to pressure companies into changing hiring policies, but in large city hospitals a breakdown of the total workforce by sex or ethnic group or disability or whatever categories you wish to privilege doesn't tell much about the distribution of those categories in the different types of jobs from doctors to janitors. That is rarely published by hospitals and is relatively difficult to come by. alteripse 18:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Gambling losses tax deductible?[edit]

The article on tax deduction states that under U.S. law, gambling losses are tax deductible as long as they are not in excess of winnings. Can I ask why? Is gambling really that big a source of revenue for the U.S. government? -- MegamiX 16:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

This is sort of a wild guess, but I assume that the reason this is so is because like tax exemption due to state/local taxes, the money simply ends up getting to the government. If they already have x amount of your money from gambling then thats simply x in taxes that you have aready paid.--Ridge Racer 16:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I think it works like this: (a) There's money to be made taxing gambling winnings (regardless of whether the gambling is legal or illegal.) (b) If you're going to do that, you really need to offset winnings with losses -- how else are you going to calculate actual winnings? (c) But allowing deductions for a gross losses (i.e., you lost a million bucks last year total) would encourage people to gamble more. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't know. The way the article phrased it, you get deductions for net profit (losses not in excess of winnings), but not for net loss. Not that it'd make much difference anyway: I can imagine our casino addict thinking "now, if I can just recoup my losses, I'll get a net gain and tax deductions!" Ahh well - thanks, both of you. :) -- MegamiX 08:17, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • No, the way it works is the winnings go on the front page of your 1040 as income. Then if you itemize your deductions you are able to claim the losses as a deduction to that income, but not more. They don't want to let you use overall gambling losses for the year to save any taxes on other income. See the form 1040, Schedule A, and the instructions for those forms. i1040sa pg 9 Get the rest here. The upshot is if you can't itemize, you'll pay taxes on the winnings but get no deduction. I actually think the article is clear about gambling losses, but you have to know how deductions work I guess. - Taxman Talk 16:09, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
A friend of mine got in trouble with the Internal Revenue Service (US federal tax authorities) over a related issue.
  • They found out that he had won some trophies in a Chess Tournament and not declared their value on his Income Taxes.
    • He argued that the amount of money that he invested in his hobby of playing chess was astronomical compared to the value of winning some tournaments, and asked if he could deduct costs like the price to enter the tournament, subscribe to magazines of chess playing tips and so forth.
    • He was told (I not there, I got this from him afterwards) that when your activity is a Hobby, you may not deduct any expenses, and you must declare any income you get from it, and pay taxes on that income.
      • Gambling was specifically mentioned as an example of a popular hobby.
  • My friend was also involved in stamp and coin collecting, but he had got himself incorporated as a business to buy and sell the products involved in this hobby. Some years he made a little money. Some years he lost money. He had not started this to be a real business, but to get various discounts to get at stuff for his personal collections.
    • The IRS treated his stamp and coin collecting not as a hobby but something where he could deduct business losses and pay taxes on the profits.
  • I accept that over time, the government can change the rules. User:AlMac|(talk) 06:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


I wanted to know is vanessa williams African-american or half black or white december 18, 2005 by jillina

You realize those are social categories, largely a matter of self-identification, and not at all exclusive of each other, don't you? And you understand by the way you have phrased the question, the answer is almost certainly "yes"? alteripse 17:57, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

It is unclear whether you are referring to Vanessa Lynn Williams or Vanessa A. Williams, but both are African-Americans. As alteripse points out, this does not exclude the other possibilities. TheMadBaron 11:44, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Movie Posters[edit]

Most movie posters have a section in where the name of the producer and actors etc. is written. Does anyone know what it is called? (Henningklevjer 17:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC))

  • I usually call them credits as they are pretty much a shortened version of the list of people who worked on the movie (as shown at the end of the actual film). I'm not sure if the section on a movie poster as a separate name. - Mgm|(talk) 19:45, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


did any of cherrelle albums sales any units like the first three (affair, high priority etc.)

                                               december 18. 2005 JAMES

Knights of the Templar[edit]

With regard to the surcoats worn by these and other knights or soldiers, I am curious about who made them, who put the red cross on them (for the Templars)? Was this a cottage industry or did it involve any kind of mass production? Was someone in charge overall, or locally? Was it done by men or women?

It's Knights Templar. That article may help. JackofOz 01:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Coat of arms was heavily regulated with respect to what families could use what symbols and color schemes. User:AlMac|(talk) 15:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Rob Roy MacGregor[edit]

Hello. My name is Vanessa and i'm looking for information regarding the children of Rob Roy MacGregor. There are four boys. James, Ronald, Coll, and Robert. Is there a way to find out who there children are? Thanks so much, V.

There is more information about McGregor's sons in the novel Rob Roy by Sir Walter Scott. The book is freely available on the web at Project Gutenberg and other places. It should be noted that the book is semi-fictional, so some parts may not be completely historically accurate. --Canley 02:45, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I wouldn't trust any novel by Walter Scott for historical accuracy. As to the sons unless they are famous in their own right we (& all other encyclopedias) won't have entries on them. You might want to try local history projects around Rob Roy's local area as they're probably more likely to be able to help than enyone else AllanHainey 09:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee: already requested stamps[edit]

There is a Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee that helps select future stamp designs. When searching on the web, one can see several letters that have been submitted to the committee. Is there a govenrnment website that makes all letters that were submitted to this committee available for viewing? is there any way to see what ideas have already been submitted and how they were evaluatesd? which ones were rejected and which ones were accepted? and the why's for each?

are the discussions of the committee available for viewing/reading on the web?

if they are not on the web? is there a way to ask for a specific document from the committee? or some other govt publishing house that keeps track of their work? and their decisions?

basically I want to find out what ideas have been submitted for new postage stamps, and what the deicsinns were on each, and why?

help, please.

with most sincere gratitude and appreciattion for your time and response to this inquiry -- gratefully, rosanne

The webpage of the CSAC is here. This page contains the criteria used for approving stamp designs, and a contact address. --Canley 02:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Filipino and German Pedagogues[edit]

Some complete information (i.e. birthdate, schooling, awards, career, etc) on German-based Filipino violinist and conductor Oscar C. Yatco, as well as on German pedagogue Jens Ellermann, would be greatly appreciated. Igor the Lion 21:20, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you trying to rewrite the article on Chino Gutierrez? Anyway, check the extlinks given in the current AfD: the ABS-CBN link has some info on Yatco. On Ellermann, there's his own website (beware of hype!). He does seem to be fairly famous in violinist's circles. I've also found a brief bio-sketch, and the music academies where he worked mentioned on his web site might have something on him. Lupo 09:30, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Among other things, yes. Actually, I'm trying to write some articles on Filipino classical musicians who are recognized in the music community over there. Oscar Yatco, for one, is conductor laureate of the Phil. Philharmonic Orchestra, won internationally, teaches in Hanover, and so on. Jens Ellermann used to teach with him there in Hanover. Aside from that, there are also other notable musicians such as soprano Camille Lopez, pianist Cecile Licad (whose current article needs cleanup), etc. Anyway, thanks for the links. Igor the Lion 16:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

How did the playbill get its name?[edit]

How did the playbill get its name?

  • The word "bill" has meant "advertisement" since the 15th century, and the word "playbill" has meant "advertisement for a play" since the 16th century. There's not a complicated history of the word, according to the Oxford English Dictionary. --Fastfission 05:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
The word bill is still used for advertisement in many legal areas, such as the warning Post No Bills. --Kainaw (talk) 01:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

December 19[edit]

Marco Polo[edit]

Does anyone have any information on the game Marco Polo? Like who invented it? The background history?

You can refer to our brief article on the subject at Marco Polo (game). The article suggests an origin of the game which strikes me as plausible, but as the article lists no references I'd encourage you to look for corroboration of that tale (although perhaps someone will stop by and let us both know if it's accurate). Jwrosenzweig 06:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


I've heard that some people who are against globalization say it will increase the amount of poverty and economic inequality in the world.Why and how would globalization increase the amount of economic inequality in the world?And are those anti-globalization protesters saying that globalization is bad for developing countries?

I've also heard that globalization will make environmental problems in the world even worse.Why and how would it do that?

See Globalization and Anti-Globalization for a start. Dismas|(talk) 03:32, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
you might want to read International Economics: Theory and Policy by Krugman and Obstfeld if you're in an appetite for some dry econ rationale. __earth 17:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

in the movies..........[edit]

How come africa,including south africa is usually refered to as the'jungle' people are 'barberians' and society seen as 'uncivilised' in most western movies? (this question is asked after observing this unsubstantial critism too often)

Africa is not, in fact, mentioned in most movies at all. To which movies do you refer? TheMadBaron 13:00, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Most western movies take place in the American west & I don't think I've seen one that refers to Africa. If you mean movies made in Hollywood I'd just chalk it up to one of many hollywood standard images/stereotypes/misrepresentations/etc. AllanHainey 16:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Japanese called westerners as barbarians back during meiji era. The point is, ppl are/were biased. __earth 17:04, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

  • "Barbarian" is also "a Greek word used in the New Testament (Rom. 1:14) to denote one of another nation. In Col. 3:11, the word more definitely designates those nations of the Roman empire that did not speak Greek. In 1 Cor. 14:11, it simply refers to one speaking a different language. The inhabitants of Malta are so called (Acts 28:1,2, 4). They were originally a Carthaginian colony. This word nowhere in Scripture bears the meaning it does in modern times." Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary ( Halcatalyst 00:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps the questioner was referring to films that take place in the African jungle. --Kainaw (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Fork Dinner[edit]

What exactly is a fork dinner. I heard the expression used in England recently. JanW

I live in England and I've never heard it. At a guess it denotes a dinner (normally the evening meal) where food substantial enough to require a fork is served, as opposed to a "finger buffet" where canapés and suchlike (edible with the fingers) are served. Have you any context as to iwhere you heard it? Tonywalton Pentacle 1.svg | Talk 14:59, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Helpful to the blind.[edit]

I have been working in the restaraunt business for 4 years. I was trained on the job to place the salt shakers on the right and pepper shakers on the left, "White on right." This was to make it easier for the blind. Just recently at my new job, still in restaraunts, I was told that salt on left, pepper on right. They never heard of "white on right." Is there something to that affect that is helpful to the blind?

Any information would be GREATLY appreciated. THANK YOU very much. signed,-- 15:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC) David Collins.

Wouldn't this matter which side of the table the person were seated on? Or is this on a counter with seats at the counter? Dismas|(talk) 20:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I know nothing of this, but two possibilities present themselves to me: 1. if I were blind, maybe I would try to smell whichever one I had first, or run my fingers over the top (salt and paper usually have different types of holes), or something else of this sort (do they sound different if you shake them?), 2. at the moment, I usually apply salt and pepper in roughly equal arbitrary amounts when I use them -- perhaps it doesn't matter much. --Fastfission 03:07, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

liberal political platform[edit]

what is the old political platform, has it changed and if so what generals ideas have changed and is there any thing else changed throw the years.

Which Liberal Party in which country are you referring to? Possibly the Liberal party of Canada? DJ Clayworth 16:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

"The Claddagh Boatman" poem verse[edit]

Where can one read or obtain a copy of the poem, "The Claddagh Boatman", written by Dr. Jeremiah Dowling? The poem is noted by other sources to have been published in newsprint in The NATION and The IRISH PEOPLE - perhaps anonymously at that time.

James Dowling, Michigan, USA -- 16:37, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know by you could try Umich libraries in Ann Arbor. They have quite a collection (really, one of the largest in the US). __earth 17:07, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
UMich don't have The Irish People - well, they do, but not old enough to be the journal in question. They have a New York publication called The Nation, old enough to be our one - it's from 1865 - but I don't know if this is the relevant journal.
If he was in Ireland at the time, The Nation was an Irish journal between 1842-1897, and possibly longer; do these dates sound right? There was an Irish People printed in Dublin from 1863-65, nothing else in the right timeframe. Can't help you more without knowing when it was actually published, though... Shimgray | talk | 17:32, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Malaysia Forever by Bobby Gimby?[edit]

Hey, does anybody know the lyrics to an old song Malaysia Forever. A Google search says it's written by Bobby Gimby but I couldn't find anything more than that. Also, it seems that the song was sang in Singapore in 1963 on the day Singapore joined the Malaysian federation. Thanks. __earth 16:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

where can i get an interpretation of british poems?[edit]

  • By reading them and thinking about them. - Mgm|(talk) 19:45, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
And yet the fate of all extremes is such,
Men may be read, as well as books, too much.
And observations which ourselves we make,
We grow more partial for th’ observer’s sake. —Alexander Pope
  • And by discussing them with others who are interested. Maybe even in a poetry class at school, though schools are not absolutely necessary for the understanding of poetry, except maybe for Modernist poetry (see also Modernist poetry in English). Halcatalyst 23:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Where Is the Young Love Comic Page?[edit]

When I hit the link in the DC Comics Titles list for Young Love, I was put on a page with the details of a Janet Jackson song of the same title. Do you have a page for the comic Young Love and how would I find it?

Currently there is no article about the DC Comics title Young Love. I fixed the link on that page so that it no longer points to the Janet Jackson song, though. Thanks for pointing out the error. —Slicing (talk) 22:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Walter Brennan[edit]

Recently my Uncle John passed away. His nickname was Wally which he recieved from a Walter Brennan quote which went something like this, "I've been in the woods 100 times before but never this far."

I was wondering if you know what movie that quote was from, and how I could go about obtaining a recording of it.

Thank you,

Patrick Dolan

  • It's probably a better idea to ask at WikiQuote who specialize in these things. - Mgm|(talk) 12:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Or Google books, but for that one I found nothing in one minute. --Harvestman

English Monarchy[edit]

In 1807 who was on the throne ? Thank you. Jim Stewart

Homework questions from[edit]

How was the Congress of Vienna both Successful and unsuccessful?

The Congress of Vienna forced you to do your own homework. --Robert Merkel 21:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

What's the difference between a socialist and a Communist?

In the West, we were taught that socialism is economic and communism is political, but after the fall of communism in Eastern Europe, I got to communicate with someone who had lived under communism, who seemed to talk like socialism and communism were interchangeable words, except that the communist party and the socialist party were two different organizations with similar goals. User:AlMac|(talk) 08:49, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Why was Nationalism an especially serious issue for the Austrian Empire?

I suggest you watch the movie The Sound of Music then ask yourself why the Captain and the family had to run away. User:AlMac|(talk) 08:51, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Isn't that a bit cruel a punishment, even for somebody misusing the Reference Desk? --Robert Merkel 10:23, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Why did Eropean Powers turn to Imperialism as a way to expand their power?

Because everyone kept getting them mixed up with the European powers. smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 16:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

What were the doctrines of Splendid Isolation and free trade, and why were they the basis of British 19th Century policy?

What was Romanticism, and what was its relationship to Nationalism?

What was the political/philosophical basis for Bismarck's groundbreaking social welfare programs?

Search first: there are articles on things like Romanticism, free trade, and so on. And do your own homework. --Robert Merkel 21:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I suggest that the next time we get a question like this we create an area of Wikipedia where we can write articles specifically for people who want us to do their homework for them. It would be very like this summary of the Lord of the Rings and we could direct people to it as required. DJ Clayworth 17:45, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

What is the term used for describing social loafing but happens when someone is in mortal danger?[edit]

Does anyone know this term? My sociology teacher wanted to know what it is and now so do I. So if anyone knows please answer this for me.

See (in french) : non assistance. Is this a related concept ? Does it help ? --Harvestman 22:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • As in what happened in the Kitty Genovese case? Perhaps Diffusion of Responsibility? Or maybe Bystander Intervention (or lack thereof)? Those are the headings in my psychology notes on that topic; hope it helps...

Sputnikcccp 22:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Found this following links from the aforementioned french article : Alert Diver I Quarter - 2002

"... quatre états – le Minnesota, le Rhode Island, le Vermont et le Wisconsin – ont des lois qui font de l'assistance à une personne en danger, un devoir dans certaines situations. Toutefois, en général, ce devoir n'est pas obligatoire si la vie du secouriste est en jeu. En revanche, le Rhode Island et le Wisconsin ainsi que cinq autres états, possèdent des lois qui punissent le fait de ne pas signaler un crime grave" daneurope They say that a good samaritan law exists in some US states. Like it ? --Harvestman

Thanks guys this really helped me out.

See Bystander effect.-gadfium 00:57, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Just to say after all : the article is extant Good_Samaritan_Law--Harvestman

December 20[edit]

mental health[edit]

isn't mental health really subjective? how does a mentally healthy person behave? what kind of beliefs does he/she have?

  • Well, it depends how you look at it. Our article on mental health discusses this a bit, though looking at the page on the anti-psychiatry movement has more on the "critique" of notions of mental health, though a more directly related topic for discussing this might be social constructionism. --Fastfission 03:02, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Mental health is as objectively definable as physical health. It means:

  • to think for most of your life that life is worth living and there are some things worth doing,
  • to have more positive than negative relationships with, and effects on, the people around you,
  • to avoid doing things or believing things that thwart your own intentions.

That may sound pretty simple, but real mental illnesses usually interfere with one or more of those things. The types of mental states that are controversial types of mental illness do not (like diagnosing a political opponent of the government with a mental illness solely because he speaks against the government). alteripse 11:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't get that last point; if I intended to buy something, but gave the money to charity, that doesn't make me mentally ill, even though I have thwarted my own intentions. What does it mean? smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 16:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
There are lots of examples of self-defeating behavior that thwarts wishes: anxiety attacks or depression or delusional beliefs that keep a person from holding a job or maintaining a marriage, or succeeding in school. alteripse 23:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm no expert on the subject, but I think it would depend on whether (and how) you also intended to give the money to charity. If you wished to both buy the something and donate to charity, and made a rational choice to be altruistic, make a sacrifice this once, and give the money to charity, that would be fine. But if you found that you were constantly denying yourself anything, or living in near-poverty, out of a compulsive desire to give every penny you ever made to charity, that might well be a form of mental illness. Steve Summit (talk) 16:45, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Leonard Shoobridge[edit]

Reader Peter sent the following question about Leonard Shoobridge who had a poem included in The Book of Bodley Head Verse in 1926. What information & pics do you have on Leonard Shoobridge?

We don't have an article on him currently and a quick Google shows he co-wrote a book on Herculaneum. Capitalistroadster 04:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Neutral countries in World War II[edit]

What kept Hitler from invading Switzerland and Sweden? Dismas|(talk) 06:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, the proposed Nazi invasion of Switzerland was called Operation Tannenbaum, and we have an article on it. The article implies that the reasons it didn't go ahead aren't definitively known, but it suggests the difficulty of fighting in Switzerland (mountainous terrain), and the fact that there wasn't really any military or economic advantage in it. I'd suggest that the "no advantage" reason might work for Sweden, too — Sweden provided Germany with raw materials anyway, so why waste troops fighting it? There wasn't any real reason for Hitler to bother with either Sweden or Switzerland when he had bigger things to worry about. (Although he may well have planned to invade them both later, once he had won the war.) Just my take. -- Vardion 06:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Hitler sez to the leader of Switzerland, "We have two divisions for every one of yours!" And the Swiss leader replies, "No problem. Each of our soldiers will shoot twice." Halcatalyst 18:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The vietnamese year[edit]

In Vietnam the months of the year are connected with different animals. Which animals? What do they symbolize?

The animals are the rat, the ox, the tiger, the cat, the dragon, the snake, the horse, the goat, the monkey, the rooster, the dog, and the pig. (These are almost the same as the ones in Chinese astrology, except that the Chinese have a rabbit instead of the Vietnamese cat.) I imagine that the meanings used in Vietnam would be fairly similar to the ones used in China, but I couldn't guarantee that. I would guess the months to which these animals are assigned are the traditional months of the lunisolar calendar calendar, not the modern one, but I suppose the names could have transfered to the modern months as well. -- Vardion 08:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Starting a Religion[edit]

I would like to know how to get my religion out to the general public, without the fear of death.(coming from a heavy religious area) If I reach others who are willing to try, I know I can make it work. So if you know how to get it out, then keep it consistant, or if the government can top me, then pleases tell me.

Hmmm. I'm tempted to ask why your omniscient God or Gods didn't bother to explain that part to you...but pardon my rudeness.
More seriously, perhaps you should look at what Falun Gong have done, or maybe the work of Ayatollah Khomeni, two examples of successfully proselytizing under threat of death. More generally, Missionary might have some useful information for you. You could also have a look at, for example, Jesus, Apostles, Gautama Buddha, Mohammed, and Joseph Smith, Jr. to borrow some ideas from your historical predecessors. --Robert Merkel 10:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Comment: why is it that I can give a plausible answer to a question like this, and can't help the guy working with aluminium who worries that the sparks from grinding steel might damage his work? --Robert Merkel 10:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
This would also depend on where you live. - Akamad 11:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Scientology seems to have worked surprisingly well. But if you want to have a real impact try dying for your followers and coming back to life. DJ Clayworth 17:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
The easiest thing to do is join up with the Discordians. You could be a pope right away. Halcatalyst 18:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
If you're afraid of death you are probably not the best person to promote a new (or locally new) religion, at least not successfully. AllanHainey 15:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Buddha managed it. Zoe ( 16:54, 23 December 2005 (UTC))
  • Why not ditch your "religion" and become Catholic, you know.. avoiding the eternal damnation and all... --Shanedidona 04:03, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

crusades & the industrial revolution[edit]

i became intrested in the crusades after watchig the movie 'the kingdom of heaven' and i started reading wikipedia's article on the crusades but enventually i got it all muddled up in my mind .can u help

i wanted to make a model of the spinning jenny and a trebuchet for my school exhibition .i ve got around a month to make these models but i need to get started now so please help.

OK, my first advice is that if you are "muddled up in the mind" pick just one of the two devices or you might accidentally make a gadget that hurls bales of wool at your teacher. The two devices have little in common other than being machines. Trebuchets date back to the late Roman Empire if not earlier, while the Spinning Jenny was invented in the middle of the 18th century. Our computers arguably are closer to a spinning jenny than a trebuchet is, and so is our culture. Hint: it will be a lot easier to build a trebuchet than a spinning jenny. There was a great article on trebuchets in Scientific American a few years ago. If you are in the US, your local library probably has it. alteripse 10:56, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


where is the holy grail?

Lost. Filiocht | The kettle's on 14:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Read The Da Vinci Code. —Keenan Pepper 16:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Or wait for the movie. - Akamad 06:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
See the Wikipedia article at Holy Grail. Halcatalyst 18:19, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Before you can find out where it is, you first need to decide for yourself if it actually exists. There's still disagreement over that. - Mgm|(talk) 20:38, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
You also have to decide which theory you accept on WHAT it is.
  • There's a heretical sect believing that Jesus really had a wife and children, and the HOLY GRAIL are those descendents, who need to be protected because there is some mission they have to do, if the human race lets them survive.
  • There's the notion that it is some object that he used, that has mystical powers.

User:AlMac|(talk) 10:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

In Castle Aaarrrgghhh on an island in a lake to be found across the Bridge of Death, which spans the Gorge of Eternal Peril. Be forewarned: its immortal guardians are possessed of fearsome taunting skills. Jwrosenzweig 23:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Inside a temple in the Canyon of the Crescent Moon in the deserts outside Iskenderun. Be forewarned: there are several fearsome death traps protecting the Grail (which can apparantly be bypassed using clues in the Chronicles of St Anselm). --Canley 00:33, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
In our minds! or in the Pyramid Inversee. --(Aytakin) | Talk 03:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
In a warehouse of mythological objects, on the shelf above Jason's Golden fleece, next to Thor's hammer. --BluePlatypus 07:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Found it. It was in the bottom of the kitchen dresser behind the rice. Filiocht | The kettle's on 08:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I KNOW! — it's at the end of the valley of the cresecent moon in a temple that has now collapsed but you can't not take it beyond the great seal for the that is the limit of its power--God of War 04:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

self development[edit]

how do nurture the youngsters with values and not to focus them only money.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

  • Try letting them develop their own values. Deltabeignet 17:58, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

teach them that reason and science are good values to start with, and also a sense of humour and tolerance.

  • Make sure you spend with them out on family fun days and show them there's more to the world than money. Encourage artistic endeavors and let them enjoy the countryside and teach them the importance of close friends. Is this question by any chance related to the recent news report about the study that British kids find money the most important thing in life? - Mgm|(talk) 20:41, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I think you need to decide which values you want to impart. "Not focusing on only money" is pretty vague, since there are thousands of other values you could instill, not all of them compatible with each other, and not all of them noble. (Side note: when I first typed out this comment, I wrote "install" where I meant "instill." Would that it were that easy!) Chuck 16:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


Do you guys think Love exists? or is it just something biologycal maybe? or is it something more abstract? by the way ... I 'love' all of u wikipedians :)

Love: A term which has no meaning if defined.John Ralston Saul in The Doubter's Companion
  • At a biological level all feelings are simply a chemical or electrical signal, but I do think "love" exists. How much of it is biologically determined and how much is influenced by our environment, I don't know. - Mgm|(talk) 20:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
You should have went to the love article ;), yes and I think it does exist, but not in a way most of us think of it

CuBiXcRaYfIsH 03:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Love is something... Love in reality is chemical reactions as described above, but it is also something much deeper in the soul. It is the care that we give to the one we care and cherish. It is not something we tell our girlfriends after 3 months just to get lucky, it is something we have with the one we will always care for. Okay I think I have got in touch with my feminin side for today, now lets go get some beers. hehe --(Aytakin) | Talk 03:24, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

As much as I respect Wikipedia, I have to say that if you look in an encyclopedia to find out whether or not love exists, you're probably looking for love in all the wrong places. Good luck in your search. (oh, and yes, it most definitely exists). JackofOz 03:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
(link removed) Love - Akamad 06:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Various mysteries in Wandering Jew article[edit]

In the section on 'The Wandering Jew in Literature' I have been trying to do some disambiguation but I simply can't find a number of the writers named despite my best Googling efforts.

Does anyone know who Koehler, Franzhorn, Oeklers, Klineman and Heller are in this context? --Spondoolicks 18:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd suggest on a slender thread of conjecture the poet Sandra Kohler for the first name, profiled here. But I don't know that she ever wrote about the Wandering Jew. The rest are a mystery to me. Jwrosenzweig 23:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Update This section came from the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia. I checked out the online version here and tried looking up all the names. Heller is Seligmann Heller but the rest only appear in this one article. Unless of course they're normally written in a different way. --Spondoolicks 13:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Lupo 15:58, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Well done for finding these - I think it may have been the copy-editor's day off when that article was written in 1906! I have updated the Wandering Jew article (including Ludwig Köhler although you are not 100% sure) and translated that German article on Klingemann. It's still a bit of a hodge-podge at the moment though and should probably be re-written - perhaps with the more obscure works not being highlighted quite so much. --Spondoolicks 11:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


I was looking for Renaissance and I spelled it wrong on the first attempt, I decided I would fix the incorrect spelling and stumbled onto the Francisco Demarzo , after 30 minutes of searching, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that either he didn't exist or is not notable at all. Simarly I tried to find the painting to no avail

Help would be apprearciated

CuBiXcRaYfIsH 22:23, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

  • This article is now listed on AFD. - Mgm|(talk) 08:50, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

December 21[edit]

Vitenam Draft Resitors[edit]

ARe there any good sources for this subject (web sources), not on Wikipedia.

You ask for sources not on Wikipedia, but I'll give you the most detailed article I could find here anyway (assuming you're talking about the US draft): Opposition to U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.-gadfium 04:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

History of the Bong[edit]

Hello, I am interested in adding a history section to the bong article. I've searched online and have not had very positive results. I would appreciate links to references that can answer the following questions:

  • Who invented the bong?
  • When was it invented?
  • When did the bong become so ubiquitous in the cannabis culture?

Thank you very much for your time. Triddle 03:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The bong (as we know it) wasn't really 'invented', since it's really just a simplified Hookah (water-pipe). Nobody knows who inventor of the hookah, but it's been around for centuries. (at least 500 years) Same thing goes for the cannabis. Hashish has been used with hookah's equally long. The word for tobacco used with hookahs is 'shisha', which I think derives from 'hashisha'. So there's no exact answer to this question. As for when people started smoking cannabis in water-pipes in the western world, I'd say the 19th century, and revived during the 60s. --BluePlatypus 07:42, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


why is it deemed impolite to wear a hat indoors?

This will be one of many possible origins, but I believe that it goes back to the Middle Ages. Taking off your hat while indoors was a sign of respect for the home to which you were visiting and thereby its owners. It was similar to saying "I know your house is well built and I'm in no danger of any leaks dripping on my head so I'll take off my hat." Gallaghp

Horace Mann[edit]

I am told that Horace Mann got his ideas for schooling from Prussia. I am told that Prussian compulsory universal schooling was for the purpose of producing "obedient soldiers and uncomplaining workers" If this is so I thirst for details. If not I need to make space in my understanding for more accurate info. Can you help me?

Well, if Mann himself said he was inspired by Prussia, there's no reason to doubt that. (although I'll have to plead ignorance on this point). As for the purpose of the Prussian school system, it's not really an answerable question. It's a matter of opinion and interpretation of history. Having obedient soldiers and uncomplaining workers is certainly part of the ideals of Prussia at that time, for sure. This means just about anything Prussia did could be described as a part of furthering these ideals. But that appears to be an oversimplified way of describing the motives. No doubt the economic realities of industrialization were just as important as lofty ideals. The Spartan system of Agoge may have been an influence as well. --BluePlatypus 10:00, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


what does the cryptex mean?

Try typing "cryptex" into the search field and clicking "Go". —Keenan Pepper 08:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Impacts of economic activity on climate change[edit]

  • Methane Gas from domesticated cows farting
  • Commercial Jet Fuel burned at high altitude contributing to Ozone depletion.
  • Smog User:AlMac|(talk) 10:58, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
More economic growth, more travel, more industrial production, more energy use. If you want to use it in your homework, go find a source that says something like that. --Robert Merkel 23:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Acid rain. Zoe ( 16:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC))
  • Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed (2004), by Jared M. Diamond, is stunning in its comprehensive treatment of "societal collapses involving an environmental component, and in some cases also contributions of climate change, hostile neighbors, and trade partners, plus questions of societal responses" (p. 15). Halcatalyst 01:28, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


I need the definition for the word "SKIRRET" as it applies to Freemasonry.

According to, a skirret is a string or cord attached to a spool and a centre pin, which is used by builders to ensure a straight line. --Canley 11:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Blazing Saddles[edit]

When I researched for the article Moe's Southwest Grill, I only found one source to explain where the "I Said Posse" item originated from. [26] However, it is also a punchline from a dirty joke. [27] Has anyone seen Blazing Saddles to confirm? It would make sense if it did, because the majority of Moe's menu items are from TV/film. Ross Uber - Talk - Contributions - 19:39, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Presidential and VEEP Homestate Requirements[edit]

Must the President and Vice President be from different states? If so, has this always been the case? If not, was it ever so?

Thank you, Don Carter

I don't think that they must be from different states, but I do know that, according to the 12th amendment, an elector cannot vote for a Presidential candidate and a VP candidate that are both from his home state. At this website (an article from the Texas Observer) there is information about whether both Dick Cheney and George Bush are both from Texas. (It's in the next-to-last paragraph.) --Think Fast 21:37, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

If I recall correctly there was a legal challenge to Dick Cheney's residence in Wyoming at the time of the electoral college meeting in January 2001, but it was turned down. David | Talk 23:31, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Even before the 12th Amendment, the electors voted for two candidates without specifically identifying them as being for president or VP, and both candidates could not be from the same state as the elector. (See the U.S. Constitution, article II, section 1.) But there was never a requirement that the president and vice president be from different states. It was always possible that two candidates from the same state could win election as president and VP even if one of them would have to do so without his home state's electoral votes. --Metropolitan90 02:28, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Also note that there is a tactical advantage to picking candidates from different states; the chances of winning those two states are quite high. If those states are populous, such as California and New York, those two candidates will be well on their way to winning the election just with those two states. StuRat 09:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

American Revolutionary War[edit]

I would like any information on the First Pennsylvania Regiment of the Continental Army including a roster of names and battles fought.

Sin and Christ[edit]

I had a question posed to me, and I am looking to you for opinion. If Christ was (and I believe that He was) both divine and human, born of the virgin, did He have the "inbred sin" attributed to Adam's race based upon this humanity?

Do you believe in original sin? --Think Fast 21:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
As I understand it, general Christian doctrine is that original sin decends paternally; the virgin birth then provides the original sin escape clause. — Lomn | Talk / RfC 22:00, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, original sin isn't just paternal; it's a human thing. That's why the Roman Catholic Church has the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception - it's commonly misunderstood to refer to Jesus, but it's actually Mary. --George 23:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
  • IOW, Mary's immaculate conception (being conceived without original sin) made it possible for her to be the the human vessel to carry the Christ child, who did not share the "inbred sin" of Adam's race. Halcatalyst 05:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Original sin refers to the inability of a human being to achieve moral perfection (to carry out God's instructions or to maintain an unashamed relationship with God) by his or her own efforts. It is one of the most fundamental insights of Christianity into human nature and dates back to the early centuries of the church. Orthodox Christian doctrine since the First Council of Nicaea in 325 and the settlement of the Arian controversy is that Jesus was of the same substance as the Father and by that definition (as an aspect of God) did not have the characteristic of original sin that the rest of the human race has. The immaculate conception has nothing to do with the issue of Christ's capability of sin and is largely an aspect of 19th century Roman Catholic Mariolatry. alteripse 01:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • "Roman Catholic Mariolatry" -- not exactly NPOV. Halcatalyst 05:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
It is an accurate description: it simply refers to worshipping Mary-- praying to her as if she were an aspect of God, which is a pretty common roman practice. What would you offer as an NPOV alternative description? alteripse 22:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • The definition on [28] from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, reads, "excessive veneration or worship of the Virgin Mary." An old Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language has "worship of the Vigin Mary, regarded as carried to an idolatrous extreme: opprobrious term."
  • Catholics don't worship Mary but rather, with some other Christians, venerate her. The accusation of worship is an old canard. See the article on Mary. Halcatalyst 04:10, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
To whom is the rosary prayed? And how much overlap is there between worship and venerate, especially when you toss in sinlessness, evasion of mortality, and ability to answer prayers? A lot of Christians find that a pretty fine distinction, and that degree of worship excessive or extreme but thanks for explaining it more clearly than I could. alteripse 18:57, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Your argument is all POV, not suited for this reference page or any encyclopedia page, but OK on talk pages. But I'm not interested in any further discussion on the topic for now. No hard feelings, of course. God bless you, and Merry Christmas! Halcatalyst 19:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
No hard feelings. We can agree to disagree. Merry Christmas and may God bless you as well.
We can't have this argument "Mary must have been without sin to have her son similarly begotten" : what about Mary's parents, ad infinitum. Anyway, Roman catholic theologians are not trying to be that logical. One can prefer the stories of Aphrodite born from a brainless shell (correct : sea foam) and having eminent qualities, &c. --Harvestman 21:52, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanksgiving Day Observed[edit]

Because the actual date of the first Thanksgiving Day is unremembered, modern observance of the fourth Thursday in November has been chosen.

Why was the fourth Thursday in November chosen?

How often does November contain five Thursdays?

  • See Thanksgiving -- it discusses the fourth Thursday issue rather completely. As to how often November has five Thursdays, let's see. Thirty days has...ok, November has 30 days, so for there to be five Thurdays, the 29th or the 30th has to fall on a Thursday, so the month has to start on a Wednesday or a Thursday, making a fifth Thursday on either the 30th or 29th respectively. So approximately (though not exactly), 2 out of 7 years has five Xdays, no matter what X is. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:10, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
As to the exact answer, the Gregorian calendar happens to repeat with a 400-year pattern (because there are 97 leap years in every 400 years, and 365x400+97 happens to be a multiple of 7, the number of days in a week). In this 400-year cycle it happens that November starts on Monday or Wednesday 56 times each; on Friday or Saturday 57 times each; and on Sunday, Tuesday, or Thursday 58 times each. (Easily computed by running a program such as "cal" on UNIX, on the years 2001 to 2400.) So there are 56+58 = 114 Novembers with 5 Thursdays: that is, it happens 57/200 of the time. --Anonymous, 07:18 UTC, December 22, 2005
Nice. That's 1/1400 less than 2/7. So while you're there -- how more or less common than 1/7 is Friday the 13th? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 19:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
If you'd made Friday the 13th a link, you would have found the answer. Actually, by a similar tiny margin, Friday is the most common day for the 13th. -- Anonymous, 00:26 UTC, December 23


i have heard this statement somewhere " if u think that education is expensive, try Ignorance" can you please explain me what does it mean? Thanks!

I've always understood it to mean two things. First that if you are ignorant then people can more easily take advantage of you. And secondly that with education usually comes a better paying job. Dismas|(talk) 21:57, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I've always assumed the saying to work on a societal, not on an individual, level, i.e. if society as a whole thinks that it is spending too much of its budget on education, then it should try the alternative and see which is cheaper/more productive in the long run -- Ferkelparade π 12:53, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


which one is oldest language, French or English?

There isn't really a set date when you can say "This is when English was created," so it's difficult to say. French is a Romantic language (originating from Roman Latin) while English is a hodgepodge of German, Anglo-Saxon, Spanish (another Romantic language), etc. Ross Uber - Talk - Contributions - 22:41, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
English went through a major transition between Chaucer (ca 1390) and Shakespeare (ca 1600). As a result, Chaucer's Middle English is almost a foreign language to many native English speakers, while Shakespeare's Early Modern English is much more accessible. In graduate school I actually found the contemporary French sources for some of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales easier to read than Middle English. "Old French" was easier to understand than the beginnings of my native tongue. So I could make the argument that English is"older" than French. But I won't. Halcatalyst 05:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
(Please check the Wikipedia articles Old English language and French language - the following is a brief summary.) Old English was being spoken by the 5th century. Middle English was a transition language to Modern English. Middle English is more specifically dated from 1150-1350. Old French is arguably from the 5th-6th centuries. While English borrowed heavily from other languages early on, Old French was mainly three distinct languages (none of them French). They were merged into a common language and became French around 1300. So, if you are talking about modern English and French, English came in around 1350 and French came in around 1300. --Kainaw (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Another factor is that English nearly died out as a written language after the Norman invasion (1066), becoming a "vulgar" language. Middle English with its west Germanic base was heavily influenced by French as well as by Latin. The Great Vowel Shift was largely responsible for differences between the language of Chaucer and that of Shakespeare. In France, on the other hand, since the early 17th century the French Academy has been a force in the slower evolution of French. So for that reason one might argue that French is older. Halcatalyst 19:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Environmental Racism - Transporting of toxic waste through US Urban Centers[edit]

Good Evening,

I am in the process of researching two topics that refer to Environmental Racism (it is for a paper). In particular, I am most interested in the transportation of toxic waste material through minority (Black) neighborhoods and the impacts of lead poisoning in urban centers. I am also looking into the remedies for these areas (for example legal cases, community solutions and governmental action, etc.) I am focusing primarly on the urban centers of the United States. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Anna Ellis-Muhammad 22:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)~~

Kevin Drum, the resident blogger at the Washington Monthly, has posted on several occasions on lead poisoning related issues; use Google's advanced search to get them. I'd also have a poke around using Technorati's blog search and see who if there's any other bloggers who post regularly on the topic (a quick search suggests there are a number).
I presume you've also done some searching with LexisNexis and some basic googling, which seems to turn up a number of useful links straight away on lead poisoning.
With regards to the transportation of toxic waste through black neighbourhoods, one thing to consider is whether this actually has any health impacts - there's no doubt that lead poisoning is damaging a lot of kids; I'm not so sure about waste in sealed containers. In any case, some of the research tools I've suggested will probably turn up all manner of useful sources.
Good luck with your project. --Robert Merkel 23:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Anectdotal memories from reading stuff about this kind of topic over the years, but not remembering which sources.
  • The actual transport is not the main problem, because very little leaks ... the huge disasters of this kind are typically when a railroad car derailment is carrying dangerous stuff, and they have to evacuate a goodly distance around, and this could be anywhere when it hits.
  • The high risk is the stuff that is there in the neighborhood all the time.
    • Do you know how come New Orleans got contaminated in aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and the flooding. It was not the transport, but the storage, of chemical facilities getting flooded, the sewage disposal getting flooded, etc. etc.
    • There was something similar in New York after the WTC came down ... asbestos dust in the air, to be breathed by people in the neighborhood.
  • Poor neighborhoods tend to have older buildings, which tend to have environmental hazards not found in newer buildings.
    • Lead based paint, peeling off walls. Little children put stuff in their mouths.
    • Asbestos
  • There is also an issue with respect to where high power electrical lines go. There is allegedly some health hazards associated with living in close proximity to them, or having schools for young children, or day care centers where children spend a lot of time each day in close proximity.
  • Stuff becomes secret or confidential if it is involved in a law suit, or some interests lobby the government. Often some settlement is to pay off litigants provided they promise to keep their mouths shut. It can be very expensive for people to get legal representation and research claims, so many people not even try it.
  • Radioactive waste is being transported to Yucca Mountain to be buried underground. Some scientists say that it has not been proven that this is safe. Alleged risks associated with earthquake, comparable to if a tornado hits a nuclear power plant. Also issues about storing too close together and need to inspect for leaks. I not know enough science to know how legitimate this is. Due to fear of terrorism, where this stuff gets trucked through which neighborhoods is national secret. I have not yet heard if there have been any spills of that in transit.

User:AlMac|(talk) 10:08, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Why does the question make the assumption that all poor urban areas in the United States are black? Is there some free housing plan for whites, hispanics, asians, native americans... that keeps them out of the poor black neighborhoods? --Kainaw (talk) 19:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
No, but the demographics are such that in general most poor urban areas in most parts of the country are overwhelmingly African American. In a few, limited parts of the country these assumptions don't hold (you get different demographics in many parts of California, for example). --Fastfission 01:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe the pt is that this is not racism, per se, but rather discrimination against the poor. In cases where the poor are hispanic, Asian, Native American, or white, the same discrimination occurs. In cases where the blacks, hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, or whites are middle class or rich, they are able to file suit and stop environmental degradation. Over time, polluters figured out that they can get away with polluting poor areas, while middle class or rich areas are able to defend themselves. Therefore, they target poor areas. An example of poor white areas which have been targeted is strip mines in Appalachia, which have scarred the land and polluted the water supply. I wouldn't expect to see a strip mine anytime soon in Beverly Hills. StuRat 09:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
If the post was not about racism against blacks, why did the question specifically state "minority (Black) neighborhoods"? It is clear that the author believes that only blacks are the poor minority.

December 22[edit]

What ever happen to?[edit]

picie straws and rootbeer koolaid

You can still buy Pixie Straws at stores that specialize in old-fashioned candies. Zoe (00:38, 22 December 2005 (UTC))

Dalrymple Arbuthnot[edit]

"Baronet of Edinburgh"? Do Baronets have territorial titles? Zoe ( 00:38, 22 December 2005 (UTC))

  • List of Baronetcies - looks like it. This seems to be the specific Baronetcy. I get the impression it's very rarely used, though... Whitaker's doesn't mention it. I don't have anything like a Debrett's or DNB to hand to check, but someone on one of the relevant WikiProjects probably does. Shimgray | talk | 01:25, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • This and this suggest that, as far as I can tell, he's not (Arbuthnot, (Baronet of Edinburgh)), but (Baronet (Arbuthnot of Edinburgh)), if that makes sense. Shimgray | talk | 01:35, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanks, Shimgray. Using "Baronet" in front of the name is very rare, isn't it? User:Zoe|(talk) 04:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
      • You usually see it just as Bt after the name. For Trivia's sake, it might as well be noted that his title is actually not Baronet Arbuthnot of Edinburgh: he (like all other baronets) is simply "Baronet Lastname", with a disambiguating location tacked on: properly, there should be a comma between the Lastname and the "of God-Knows-Where" as a sort of recognition that the title ends at the comma, so that our titular friend is properly "Sir Dalrymple Arbuthnot, Bt, of Edinburgh", or "Sir Dalrymple Arbuthnot, Bart, of Edinburgh". - Nunh-huh 06:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
        • Aha! So, to put it in terms that we'd all recognise - he's Baronet Arbuthnot, with a disambiguation added! :-) Shimgray | talk | 14:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
          • But despite my carelessness above, he'd never be called Baronet Arbuthnot: He's Sir Dalrymple Arbuthnot, Bart" on an envelope" and "Sir Dalrymple" (first name, not surname!) in direct address. (The exceedingly rare female baronet would be "Dame Florence Henderson, Btess" and "Dame Florence".) But yes, the placename is disambiguation, not part of the title. - Nunh-huh 20:37, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

wall surrounding pyramid[edit]

Does anyone know what the thirty-foot wall surrounding the base of the great pyramid is called? Thank you very much.

Jack Lord[edit]

Question;, Did the Actor Jack Lord wear a wig or hairpiece?

Not according to this site. Dismas|(talk) 09:18, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

islam-christian dogma[edit]

22-12-05. As a Christian in Australia I would hope that well informed Muslims and Christian should have an intellectual look at each others beliefs. For example most Christians acknowledge the Nicene Creed and most Muslims have the Koran.l How about some dialogue about -GOD-ALLAH] How much do we hold in common? THE ONE GOD

The Reference Desk is not a general discussion forum. Unless you have a specific question, please take your theological debate somewhere else. —Keenan Pepper 06:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
If you google islam christianity similarities you will get a whole bunch of links. It seems similarities between the two are common. - User:Akamad Merry Christmas to all! 07:33, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Well if you are going to mention some similarities, perhaps they should be accompanied by a reminder of a few minor differences.

  1. Followers of only one of the two in recent centuries have killed thousands of people in the name of their concept of god.
  2. Only one of the two teaches that unbelievers do not need to be treated with the same love, respect, and charity that fellow believers deserve and that it is ok to lie to them, kill them, and abuse their hospitality in the name of their concept of god.
  3. Followers of only one of the two teach that females should be restricted from public life and kept concealed in the name of their concept of god.
  4. Followers of only one in recent centuries have, in the name of their concept of god, been willing to put people to death for insulting their religious figures or having the wrong kind of sexual relations or thinking about changing religion.

A large number of people think these differences are far more important to the rest of us who share this earth with them than the theoretical similarities. alteripse 11:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Um, guys, let's not start a flame war. As Keenan said, this is not a discussion forum to debate the merits or otherwise of Islam or Christianity, though I'm sure we've all got our strong opinions on both. Might I suggest we draw this discussion closed at this point?--Robert Merkel 13:37, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


I am a student of history and I am in a fix about the location of the Lines of Chatalja. i wonder if you can tell me what and where these lines of Chatalja are.

They are near Istanbul. Filiocht | The kettle's on 11:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

christ's birthday[edit]

On what day of the week was Christ born

It was not recorded by anyone. alteripse 12:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
December 25, 1AD was a Monday. --Canley 12:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
  • It may be, but there's diagreement on the actual date he was born. - Mgm|(talk) 12:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
    • In fact, there's disagreement as to if he was born at all. Filiocht | The kettle's on 13:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
      • In fact, if he was born at all, it would have been sometime between about 6BC and about 4AD. Anyone who claims to know more precisely than that when he was born has probably had too much Christmas cheer. There are numerous theories. But they are all theories. JackofOz 22:34, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Early Egyptian theologians believed he was born on May 20. A common theory is that December 25 was chosen because people were celebrating the winter solstice and it was proving difficult to kill off the pagan holiday. So, the Catholic church made it a Christian holiday and encouraged people to celebrate it. --Kainaw (talk) 14:56, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
It is not known exactly when he was born, othern than that it was not in the winter. For one thing, shepards would not have been "keeping watch over their flocks at night" in the winter. - Pureblade | Θ 20:48, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but... Weren't the sheperds were from an area that it now in modern Turkey? Sheep are kept there all year round, right? Also, they saw a star - not the birth. Does the Bible state that the star appeared the instant he was born or does it say that a star appeared to signify his birth (at or around a time convenient for a star to appear)? There is a lot of wiggle-room in what I know of the story. --Kainaw (talk) 22:27, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I had thought that it was not a REAL star but either a supernova or a bunch of planets in conjunction. User:AlMac|(talk) 06:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
There is a high probability that they saw a supernova, I heard this somewhere too. helohe (talk) 07:41, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
There has for the last couple of centuries in the West been a popular intellectual game whereby someone takes an improbable or miraculous story from the Bible and postulates a naturalistic cause. It sort of sounds like science but it isn't quite because there is usually nowhere near enough evidence to support or refute the hypothesis. The hypotheses range from the plausible to the ridiculous (like extraterrestrial atomic bombs destroying Sodom). In most cases all we have is a one sentence mention of an event, with few details. By the rules of the game you assume (a) the story describes a literally true event and (b) that you have to incorporate as many details from the Bible as possible. You get extra points if you can rope in at least one shred of extra-Biblical historical or scientific evidence (this doesnt make it necessarily true, or even convincing, of course). This game can be amusing, but the intelligent reader never forgets that it is a parlor game. Occasionally the proposer hits the jackpot and his explanation becomes widely accepted in popular or academic circles for a generation or two (like the theory that Noah's flood describes the formation of the Black Sea). alteripse 08:02, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
If the supernova theory was true, we would expect records from around the world of a supernova at about that time. One problem with such a theory is that a supernova, like anything in the sky (except at the poles), will appear to change position as each hour passes. Thus, it "pointing the way to Bethlehem" doesn't seem very plausible, unless the way was due North, which doesn't correspond with what the Bible said. It could only point the way for a brief moment in time, then would point elsewhere. Typical supernova bright enough to be seen by the naked eye happen every few centuries and are visible for a few days.
As for the other part, the Black Sea deluge theory seems to have a great deal of evidence to support it, but perhaps a bit less to show that it was the basis for the Noah's Ark story. I suspect that a great many things found in ancient literature, such as the Bible and the Iliad, are based on a grain of truth. The Trojan War, for example, does appear to have happened and the site of ancient Troy has been found in Asia Minor (now part of Turkey). The Temple of David also appears to have existed, with the modern Wailing Wall being the only remaining part. Thus, we should neither accept the contents of ancient books as true or reject them as false, but should investigate each as a possibility.StuRat 08:41, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Might it have been a comet instead of a supernova? Zoe ( 16:59, 23 December 2005 (UTC))
You're still faced with the same problem of the comet moving across the sky as the Earth turns on its axis. As alteripse said, these theories tend to be based on a great deal of speculation. — Trilobite 20:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


Chicanery is not listed in Wikipedia. This word appears in politics, and in the titles of books, but what does it really mean? And has its meaning been changed/corrupted over time? American Heritage Dict. says 1)Deception by trickery or sophistry. 2)A trick; a subterfuge.

"Chicanery" isn't in Wikipedia because Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Wiktionary is a dictionary, however, and it has chicanery. — Lomn | Talk / RfC 14:44, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


Do you know of any famous Iclanders? Thank you for your help.-- 15:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)AnonymousInsert non-formatted text here

Björk. -- 15:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
See Category:Icelandic people and List of Icelanders. —Keenan Pepper 17:13, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Macdonalds and war[edit]

Who said that two nations with a macdonalds in them have never been at war? (Or something like that?) Is there a formal name for such a belief/philosophy? And does wikipedia have an article on it?-- 16:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

See McDonald's#Emblem for globalization. Zoe ( 17:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC))

It's an amusing notion - which I thought must certainly be false. But apparently Iraq is Happy-Meal free. This page quotes a column by James Langton calling the phenomenon the "Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention". - Nunh-huh 22:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
And it was Thomas Friedman of The New York Times who apparently came up with the idea in 1996, as quoted in Langton's column and this web site. The war between the U.S. and Panama in 1989 is the only exception known at the time of Friedman's column, but since then there was the Kosovo War in 1999 between NATO and Yugoslavia, and the Kargil War in 1999 between India and Pakistan, both of which violate the Golden Arches Theory. --Metropolitan90 02:18, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I think if the theory were true, the only wars would be against small chunks of rock in the middle of the sea, and if McDonald's keeps on going, maybe not even there. smurrayinchester(User), (Ho Ho Ho!) 17:50, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

American Military Bases in Iraq[edit]

How many military bases are being built in Iraq? When the US military forces finally leave Iraq does the Bush administration plan on turning the military bases over to Iraqi forces? If not does anyone know what the Bush administration plans on doing with them? Also, I have heard that Bush is building a billion dollar embassy in Baghdad. This seems way too large and out of scale and perspective to me. Can anyone shed some light on the issue?

Anyone who claims to know what the future will hold is only guessing. Using the past as an example, how long did it take to pull out of, say, Germany or Japan? (check a list of American military bases if you don't get the joke.) As for what you've heard about Bush building an embassy, he has spent very little time in Iraq. I doubt he built anything more than a little tower out of beer cans while he was there. Are you referring to an embassy that Congress would vote to budget for construction? You can check the official U.S. Embassy of Iraq hompage --Kainaw (talk) 19:02, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Building an embassy which is impervious to suicide bombers and other ground and air attacks might very well take a billion dollars. In particular, I would say it should be built underground with remote control (by wire) guns above ground which can be used to kill any attackers before they infiltrate the compound. To put it in perspective, that's only a few dollars per US taxpayer and insignificant relative to the cost of the war so far. StuRat 08:00, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Political Climate in 1950s[edit]

How did McCarthyism, Dynamic Conservatism, Politics of Consensus, Consumerism, Civil Rights and Southeast Asia war impact the political climate of the 1950s?

They ensured a consensus where conservative parents dynamically watched their children very closely to ensure that, no matter what their skin colour, they did their own homework before they were allowed to watch their brand-new TV. --Robert Merkel 00:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Very impressive I must say. :) That's one of the best do your own homework responses I've seen. I've also added some links to lead the asker or another reader to some of the info. - Taxman Talk 17:41, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

December 23[edit]

Pennsylvania geography[edit]

Do you know 10 major rivers in Pennsylvania?

No, not personally anyway. An atlas might. --Robert Merkel 00:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
See List of Pennsylvania rivers. Zoe ( 00:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC))

Removal of a foreign leader[edit]

Does the United Staes have a law prohibiting the assassination or removal of foreign leaders.

The issue seems to have been addressed thru executive orders. See [29]. - Nunh-huh 02:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe the current policy is that it's only permissable to target leaders of other countries for assassination during a war, or what passes for a war these days, since we no longer seem to bother to have the Senate declare war. StuRat 05:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
It is the function of the President to declare war. It is the function of the Senate to pay for it.
Not according to the Constitution. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:39, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

The US has had policies and laws that get changed as a result of events, and reaction to them.

  • There was an allegation or belief that the CIA tried to assassinate Castro, then failed. Then there was an allegation or belief that Castro was behind Oswald's assassination of JFK. This led to a law against the US doing this kind of thing in the future, without acknowledging whether or not any such thing had been done in the past.
  • There have been a number of allegations before and during the War on Terrorism, that the CIA and other US paramilitary departments, deliberately targeted various people for military action.
    • The embassy of China in Bosnia, where rebel radio had been broadcasting from inside the safety of the embassy, and US bombed the source of the radio signals.
    • Bunker busting bombs aimed at bunkers where Saddam was thought to be that nite.
    • The Iran Contra scandal which was not just weapons to Iran, but also mining Contra harbors with damage to Europena shipping. Apparently there was some US President finding saying that the US laws and International laws did not apply, if we were not caught in the act of doing whatever, but of course we were caught later.

User:AlMac|(talk) 16:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Langston Hughes' "Weary Blues"[edit]

When was this poem composed and where was it first published?

Written in 1923, the poem won an award from Opportunity magazine in 1925 (which then published it). It became the title of Hughes' first volume in 1926. --Kainaw (talk) 03:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

hours of all beatles recordings[edit]

If one were to continiously play every recorded Beatles song, how many hours or days would it take to complete?

You could find a Beatles Discography and add it all up ;)

CuBiXcRaYfIsH 07:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

You'd also have to be careful about definitions of "recording". Do you count the Christmas records? The BBC radio sessions? --Robert Merkel 09:22, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The Simpsons - Lisas Intro[edit]

At the start of the simspsons, does lisa's solo change for each episode? id swear its different everytime


See Simpsons#Opening_sequence-gadfium 08:44, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

She plays several different peices, including the Simpson's theme song. StuRat 09:04, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


This question was left at the Scientology talk page. I have moved it here and notified the anonymous poster. -Parallel or Together? 10:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I have heard that people who have used LSD are not able to join the COS.

Is this true?

If so, why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

They will gladly take their money. Perhaps it would even be a head start. alteripse 12:05, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Bias all the way
Oh what fun it is to write
In the neutral kind of way

(That said, I agree with the letter of the statement if not the intent. I don't think that previous drug use would preclude someone from joining, although they might have more cleansing to do.) WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 15:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

You know, if you couldn't tell my POV, it would have been a wasted, ineffective sentence, wouldn't it? Why don't you relax and enjoy the refreshing diversity of clearly owned opinion here at the ref desk instead of caviling at the occasional POV that doesnt match yours (it's not like most of the answers don't express some pov)? And if you want to testify how the scientologists saved your sanity and you feel almost "clear" after only $15000 worth of treatments... I won't censor you. alteripse 18:46, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Mahabharata novel[edit]

Hello, this is KeeganB. Years ago I was browsing at a bookstore and I found a book by an Indian author. According to the description on the book's back it was a retelling of the Mahabharata set in modern times and dealing with issues that India is (or was) dealing with. I don't remember the title, and I'm hoping this book sounds familiar to some one here. Any ideas?

This page talks about a "modern-day Mahabharata-revisionist retelling", The Great Indian Novel, by Shashi Tharoor. Zoe ( 17:04, 23 December 2005 (UTC))

homework help with an essay[edit]

my english teacher has given me this weird topic to write an essay on

"In all Commonwealth societies, customs and traditions help people to navigate a passage through life. In your experience, does this statement ring true?"

please help me with it by giving me a few ideas or atleast a start because the word limit is 1200-1500 words .please help me

This is indeed a slightly weird topic, so I guess you can be excused for asking homework questions :). I'd probably tackle it by arguing that while customs and traditions do indeed help one navigate through life, this is not only true in Commonwealth countries but basically in all societies anywhere, anytime - after all, societies are mainly defined by a set of common customs and traditions, and it's a bit hard to see what should make the Commonweatlh countries special in that respect. -- Ferkelparade π 12:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The only weird part of the topic is the word "Commonwealth" because the statement is equally true of non-Commonwealth societies and the inclusion of the word almost implies the teacher thinks not. If you want to be a smart-ass, write on that aspect, which might make it entertaining, but you had better be a good judge of your teacher's receptiveness for foolishness. If you want to play it straight, just describe some customs and traditions in your society that "help people navigate a passage through life". The latter phrase includes things like: how a newborn is welcomed into the famly, how a newborn or small child is welcomed into society, how a child is taught to get along with others outside the family, how a child is protected from the hazards of early life, how a child becomes a member of the society in a formal sense, how a person deals with sexual feelings in adolescence, how a person is taught the basic information needed to be a functioning member of that society, how a mate is found, how a job is found, how a person establishes a new household, how a person deals with loss of family members, how retirement is handled, how diability or illness are handled, how death is handled. You have your whole essay right there. You are welcome. alteripse 12:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I think I would write "no", because I haven't experienced "all Commonwealth societies". The teacher's wording leaves much to be desired. Zoe ( 17:05, 23 December 2005 (UTC))

Within the context of the question, the teacher is only interested in Commonwealth nations, not all of humanity. So what you looking for is some kind of a "net change" depiction of how culture, child rearing, and adult society, varies across those nations. User:AlMac|(talk) 04:55, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Will Amerie release a new single in 2006?[edit]

do u know if amerie is going to release a single in 2006?? if so can u post it in her artical thanks

Why don't you post this question on her official web forum? Zoe ( 17:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC))

i tried but i can't get in

Why don't you post this question on her official web forum? Zoe ( 17:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC))

i tried but they won't get me in


Q-What is it that keeps the developed nations from accepting the responsibility for the sorry state of affairs in the developing and the under developed nations? Why is there a strong reluctance to undo the faults of past? Being more specific, the current stand off at WTO is an example of the strong headedness of the few developed nations.

Consider the quality of education to new generations of future leaders, with respect to all that which the nation did in other nations in the past. It is largely absent. We were there, we are no longer there, is about all that is commuincated. Then as the new ignornant generation elects new leaders, the leaders are expected to carry out the wishes of their voters, which does not include doing something about something that the voters are ignorant about. The victim nations need to lobby through the foreign office of the former imperial nation, to try to get some chunk of text added to secondary school text books that describes the damage done, that has not yet been resolved, in the eyes of the developing nation. User:AlMac|(talk) 16:53, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Music and Emotions[edit]

Music and generate emotions, for example, Handel's Hallelujah Chorus creates a feeling of majesty and the (Star Wars') Imperial March creates a sinister feeling. I want to know, it the emotions generated by a piece universal? And also are those emotions inheriant or learned?

They're certainly not universal. I've never experienced any sinister feelings from (I presume you're talking about Elgar's) Imperial March, so that's a counter-example already. I believe feelings evoked by music are both inherited and learned. JackofOz 00:20, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually I think he/she meant William's Imperial March. —Keenan Pepper 01:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I think some aspects are universal - for instance the experience of a minor interval as melancholy. More subtle aspects are surely subjective. TheMadBaron 06:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Arrest authority for game warden[edit]

Who is authorized to arrest a game warden? JR end70.248.27.114 22:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

This depends which country you're in. In the UK, formal arrest can only be made by a constable. A member of the public can only makean arrest on a person who is obviously commiting an arrestable offence, and then must hand the person into the custody of a constable. Game wardens have no additional legal rights under law in the UK. --Gareth Hughes 22:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

How about in the United States?


has it been settled if we have a soul? or we are just products of our brain?

No, this has not yet been settled, and most likely never will. - Akamad Merry Christmas to all! 23:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
It's not even a question of it being "settled". It's outside the scope of the things that human science can prove, or disprove. One either believes in souls, or one does not. That is all, really. JackofOz 00:23, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
However, you might like to read the article on Consciousness. Halcatalyst 01:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Do we have an article on the experiments of people losing a few grams of weight at the point of death? User:Zoe|(talk) 01:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
  • A few weeks ago a woman was discissing her recent book on the subject on the Daily Show. I can't remember any of the details of that, but a quick web search turned up another book, Beyond Death: Empirical Evidence of the Human Soul, by Timothy Owe. [30]
See Duncan MacDougall and [31]Slicing (talk) 18:30, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
You might also be interested in reading on the philosophy of mind which, while not directly concerned with souls (that's the realm of metaphysics and theology), does have to deal with a similar problem: Whether "mind" is a different sort of thing from physical matter. --George 03:27, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

December 24[edit]

Jason Alexander Playing Gandhi?[edit]

Hi all...

on Mahatma_Gandhi#Artistic_depictions, someone has wrote that Playbill recently gave the news that jason Alexander of Seinfeild fame was going to lose 90lbs to play the role of Mahatma Gandhi. Can someone confirm this for me? I googled and googled and googled, but no result. Thanks --Spundun 01:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Playbill Online has no mention of that at all, and I couldn't find any other sources of this "news", so I removed it from the article. —Slicing (talk) 02:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
While I hate to give credit to any intentional Wikipedia hoax/inaccuracy, that one was actually damnably inventive. -- The Confessor 00:45, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

publishing a book[edit]

How would a 15-year-old go about getting a book published? How would one start this process, and what types of books are on demand nowadays and therefore more likely to be published?

--Shadarian 02:46, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

The most labor-intensive way is to make manuscripts and send them out, unsolicited, to editors at major publishing companies. Sometimes, the rejection slips will contain constructive criticism. You can also consider paying a vanity press company to publish your book, or do it yourself using the instructions at Wikibooks:Bookbinding.--Joel 03:11, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Reading Publishing will give you a good start. Spoiler warning: it isn't easy for anyone, far less for a teenager, to become an author unless s/he has something really unique to offer. The question you ask -- "what types of books are on demand nowadays and therefore more likely to be published?" -- would stump even most people in the publishing industry. Good luck. Halcatalyst 03:19, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Whatever you do, don't share your age if the publish doesn't ask. Let your manuscript speak for itself. Publishing is basically he same no matter what your age. You need a story written down and printed on paper per the submission guidelines of the publisher you want to submit to. Try to find books that are similar to your own and note their publisher. Those are your best bet. has loads of information regard submitting your work to publishers and the cover letter that should accompany your manuscript. You should also make sure your book has had a few extra eyes look at them. I had great experiences with myself. That site allows you to share your work with other writers and get constructive criticism on how you could improve it. Finally, if you decide to go the self-publishing route, I can recommend They don't have huge upfront costs and only charge for ISBN numbers and additional services. If you spend the time to learn the system and do the publishing yourself there, you can safe A LOT of money. Probably a good thing for a 15-year-old. The last two sites I mentioned have extensive forums where fellow users share publishing knowledge. Hope this helps. - Mgm|(talk) 20:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

what if I submit my work to critique circle and expose myself to it being stolen before I publish it? I mean, there's no way I could ever prove I wrote it...

  • That's the dilemma (with respect to mathematical work) of the Gwyneth Paltrow character in the movie Proof. It's the same with any creative work: You can keep it to yourself or you can let others know about it. If you do reveal it, they might steal it. But probably not. Halcatalyst 20:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Addresses of Prime Ministers[edit]

Hi.all Wishing U Merry Christmas and New year./ I want to know the Official Office Addresses of Presidents and Prime Ministers of various countries.can anyone help me.

The address for the President of the United States is:
President George Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington DC 20500-0001
Dismas|(talk) 15:19, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
The address for the Prime Minister of the UK is
The Rt Hon Mr A. Blair
10 Downing Street
[[Sam Korn]] 15:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Hate to be a nitpicker, but you never use "Mr" after "Rt Hon". And you should use his postnominals. It's "The Rt Hon Tony Blair MP"
You might have to be more specific, otherwise this list will get very long. - Akamad Merry Christmas to all! 01:07, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree, please be more specific. To add to the list, Prime Minister of India:
Dr. Manmohan Singh
7, Race Course Road
New Delhi - 110011
deeptrivia (talk) 04:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

legal question[edit]

lets say i`ve been arrested for defrauding the chruch what i want to know is does the chruch count as a chartible orgnization therefore can the prosecutor argue that it is.

In the USA, all churches are organizations that can receive charitable contributions. This definition is part of the income tax code. User:AlMac|(talk) 17:44, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't think the criminal codes of the US generally distinguish between defrauding a person and defrauding a corporation (let alone between profit and non-profit corporations). The prosecutor may go after you with more zeal for defrauding a church. alteripse 19:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
allegecly defrauding, until convicted, unless got a good defense. User:AlMac|(talk) 04:58, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
First of all, we cannot offer legal advice of any kind. Second of all, you do not specify under which jurisdiction this charge is being brought (though it seems everyone's assuming it's the United States). If you are fine with hearing some general information that is not legal advice, please tell us what country and what court is hearing these charges. Jwrosenzweig 08:26, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Wired magazine list reference: Mothers of/Fathers of[edit]

From the Wired magazine article on Wikipedia: "...lists more than 230 people known as fathers and mothers of idea, movement, or invention." > For a kids' book of lists I'm writing, I'd like to see that article for research, but I can't find it on the Wikipedia site. Can you send me a link to it or tell me how I might search for the article/string/stub that is mentioned in the Wired magazine article. > Thanks. > Jim Buckley Shoreline Publishing Group (email address removed)

List of people known as father or mother of something-gadfium 00:54, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

C19 US trader with plains natives[edit]

Can you name a C19 US trader with plains natives? I have some of the letters of his name (it's a crossword clue with 10 letters. _ O _ A _ C _ E _ O

Many thanks -- 22:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I ran those letters through a piece of software on my machine (TEA Crossword Helper 2.6) that checks such patterns against an internal dictionary, and it came back with comanchero... which, given it's obvious surface relation to a particular Indian tribe, would appear to be correct. -- The Confessor 00:37, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

December 25[edit]

Wallis Simpson, Queen of the Golden Gummet?[edit]

The indepth article on the abdication crisis precipitated by Edward VIII's affection for Wallis Simpson quotes from a letter calling her a 'Queen of the Golden Gummet,' and infers from that description that the letter-writer was referring to a preference for female sexual partners.

Being quite fascinated with lesbians (heh!), I immediately began searching for any other online documentation that would provide a more in-depth perspective into the nature of this description and its history, only to find that Wikipedia is basically the only source of note... a Google search for gummet and lesbian finds nothing else of note.

Can anybody help me out here?

Thanks in advance, -- The Confessor 00:32, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Well, this is the Wikipedia reference desk. You might try asking at your local library. Halcatalyst 01:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


What is the origin of the name Toorak? It doesn't sound Aboriginal to me, but that could be because I'm used to New South Welsh Aboriginal names. —DO'Neil 00:37, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

The only entymological data I've been able to find is on this page. -- The Confessor 00:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Must be the silly season. You're confusing "etymological", which is about word origins, with "entomological", which is about the study of insects. Cheers JackofOz 23:19, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


I've tried to find it, but I can't find why Russia won't just let Chechnya be it's own country....why? Why? Thanks, Ruby

I do not know the answer to this either, but you might check to see if the Russian constitution even permits part of the nation to secede from the union.
I checked the WP article on Chechnya and there are reasons given there. Have you studied that article?
  • The Russian constitution does not allow part of the nation to leave.
    • If Chechnya wanted their independence by methodology that is legal within the Russian system, one way to do it, without the blood bath that the rebels chose instead, would be to lobby to get the constitution amended to legalize their independence.
  • Oil Pipelines, and Oil Reserves are important to the Russian economy, so Russia would be hurting if Chechnya was allowed to secede.
  • Let's look at a map. Would the removal of this part of the country cripple the rest of the country?
    • A parallel is Quebec which does have the right, under the Canada constitution to get their independence. Looking at a map, if they split off, it could destroy Canada, which is why the total nation of Canada made such dramatic efforts to identify what was the grievances of the Quebec independence movement, and try to fix the problems.
      • And yes, there has been some violence there, but not as serious as rest of the world, with independence movements. Eskimo Indians living in Quebec were inspired by the Quebec independence movement, and just as Quebec wanted independence from Canada some Indian tribes wanted their territory being independent from Quebec and there was some sit down protest blocking major river bridges to protest some development of lands that were ancient burial grounds.
    • Another parallel is Northern Ireland and the Irish Republican Army. How long has that conflict been going on? Why doesn't Britain just grant independence, like they done with India and other Commonwealth nations? Well one reason is that the Rebels do not speak for the whole population. There was a vote a long time ago, and the losing side became sore losers.
        • One reason the Brits don't grant independence to Northern Ireland is that, for every person who wants it become part of the Republic of Ireland, there's another person who was born there and calls it home and thinks of themself as British first and Irish second. As much as I want the land of my forbears united once more, I can't deny the Northern Irelanders who consider themselves British that this is their right too. JackofOz 23:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Perhaps like with Puerto Rico in the USA there should be additional such votes every generation or so.
        • If you look at US History, you will find that there was an assassination attempt against a US President by someone involved in the Puerto Rico separist movement. By granting vote in Puerto Rico every generation or so, whether to go Independent, become one of the states of the USA, or continue with their present status (which is how all the votes have gone), the political interests that favor a change ,,, they move into the civilian debate arena to try to convince their fellow citizens of the rightness of their position. This debate is extremely peaceful when compared with how other nations have not allowed their separist interests to have such a peaceful dispute resolution approach.
  • If Russia gives into the Chechnyan ethnic minority, then there are many other ethnic minorities in Russia that would also demand independence.
  • Russia, and the Former Soviet Union, has a long history of not looking favorably upon independence movements. The natural knee jerk reaction is military.
Consider civil wars in other nations. The same question could be asked of many other nations. For example, the American civil war ... how come the North did not let the South just secede from the Union of the states? Why did they have to fight a bloody civil war? Look at the death rate at the battle of Gettysburg in the context of the history of warfare of the time. That was catastrophic! Of course it happened because the military leaders trained troops in tactics based on gunpowder weapons development in history prior to this war, and the art of war of the time had real lousy command and control for communications between the military leaders.

Also look at the terrorism by the British against the Americans in the War of 1812 and the horrible stuff done on the US side, like letting all the criminals out of jail in some Canadian cities, and encouraging them to join in the looting.. The same question could be asked. How come the British Monarchy wanted to fight the US Revolutionary war over again? I have read that part of the reason is they were scared by what they were seeing happen in France with its revolution and did not want to see that happen in Britain. That makes no sense to me. It would have been much easier to declare war on France, and try to effect a regime change there.

But just as the British leaderhip of a couple centuries ago were totally ignorant about the form of government that today we know as Democratic, and the Monarchy had no idea how to achieve the kind of wonderful marriage we do have today, there are governments around the world today, France and Australia for example, struggling with the aspirations of its Islamic civilian population clashing with traditional former values of those nations.

User:AlMac|(talk) 05:06, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Almac, that is a gross oversimplification of the issue in both France (reportedly) and Australia (more certainly). On the Australian case, read 2005 Sydney race riots for some background. That article doesn't really make the point that the "Islamic" male youths who had apparently been causing trouble on Cronulla beach (prior to the rampage by a bunch of drunk, mainly white rioters on Sunday) are not particularly religious; they take 2Pac far more seriously than Mohammed. --Robert Merkel 11:32, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Re British trying to effect a regime change in France: have you looked at the Napoleonic Wars article?-gadfium 07:17, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. I knew a little about the subject, that it took a huge coalition to defeat Napoleon, and that there was no regime change in the sense of Republic back to Monarchy. User:AlMac|(talk) 08:00, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Huh? There certainly was a regime change in that sense - the pre-Revolutionary Bourbon monarchy was restored after Napoleon, in the form of Louis XVIII, followed by Charles X, who made such a pig's ear of running the country that they had another revolution in 1830 which installed Louis-Philippe on the throne. Then in 1848 they had yet another revolution, threw out Louis-Philippe as king and elected Louis Napoleon Bonaparte, the old emperor's nephew, as President of the Second Republic; after four years he emulated his uncle and had himself proclaimed Emperor of the Second Empire. When he in turn was thrown out in 1870 they got round to declaring the Third Republic, which lasted until WW2. -- Arwel (talk) 00:52, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Quelle était la situation de la Jamaïque en 1800 ?[edit]

Geographically, a tropical island in the Caribbean. Politically, a colony of Great Britain. Economically, poor with subsistence farming and some large European-owned plantations with slaves. Psychologically, there was lots of ennui seasoned with some existential angst that year. What else did you want to know? alteripse 12:50, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

S'il vous plaît consultez fr:Wikipédia:Oracle, ici parlons seulement anglais. (did that make any sense?) —Keenan Pepper 12:55, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it's missing a "nous" - "ici nous parlons seulement anglais." --HappyCamper 14:03, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


what is the religion of Valencia?

Valencia is a city in Spain, which has been almost exclusively Christian (Roman flavor) since about 1492. alteripse 15:57, 25 December 2005 (UTC)


can u guys give me the translation of this 'christus vinchit cristus reinghtat christus cristus e emperat" & "kyrie elesion krie eleson" & wHAT LANGUAGE IS IT????

The first is horribly misspelled Latin, the second is equally mangled Greek.

I presume the original of the first line is Christus vincit, Christus regnat, which means "Christ has conquered; Christ reigns". The second line is more obscure and seems either post-Latin, or too mangled for me to recognize although obviously it continues the theme of the first line with three of the words suggesting "Christ rules from..." or "Christ rules and..."

The second quote is obviously intended to be Kyrie Eleison, Lord have mercy, one of the oldest phrases in Christian liturgy. And a Merry Christmas to you. alteripse 15:55, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

You may find the article on the Kyrie moderately interesting. Jwrosenzweig 08:16, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


I think that even if we get to a point of knowing 'everything there is to know' and get to the last frontier...maybe we are being decieved and that is not so. what do you think?

ps. philosphy can be a mental health hazzard, like I read in a question in the science reference desk about creationism vs evolution.

That's a rather unanswerable question, I think. To give you a place to start, though, you might want to read about philosophical skepticism. Arguments of that sort can be used to assert that we can never even possibly know everything - indeed, that we may not ever be able to know much of anything at all. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy also has a very fine article on skepticism [32]. That should occupy your brain for a while. :) --George 05:25, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

thank u :) the way, how old are you? (I don't know if this kind of question is allowed anyway)I'm 20.

Can't imagine it being against the rules. I'm 25 and a grad student. You click on my name to read my user page, just as you can with any user. --George 21:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

3rd 4th century visigoth society & slavery[edit]

I have searched in many places and cannot discern whether the Visigoth in Dacia in the time of Constantine had slaves, as did the Roman Empire and a lot of societies of that era. I am interested in the time frame of 325AD, as I have written a novel which is in the Historical Reconstruction genre, and being able to site this fact would be very helpful.

This site [33] as well as this one [34] may be of help to you. Both have contact links, too. --Tachs 08:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
These are some decent-to-excellent books dealing with the Visigoths, as well as the Gothic tribes as a whole-
  • Heather, Peter. "The Visigoths from the Migration Period to the Seventh Century: An Ethnographic Perspective." Boydell Press, 2003. ISBN 1843830337
  • Ferreiro, Alberto. "The Visigoths: Studies in Culture and Society." Brill Academic Publishers, 1998. ISBN 9004112065
  • Wolfram, Herwig. "History of the Goths." Thomas Dunlap (ed. & trans.) University of California Press, 1990. ISBN 0520069838 (highly recommended for a good general overview of the Goths in history, but heavy reading if you are unused to academic writing. I always check this book first in referencing anything about the Gothic tribes.)
  • Wolfram, Herwig. "The Roman Empire and Its Germanic Peoples." Thomas Dunlap (ed. & trans.) University of California Press, 1997. ISBN 0520085116 (another wonderful text, much like his 'History' from 1990, but the same caveat applies also to this one)
An author I do *not* recommend is Malcolm Todd, as far as Germanic history and ethnography is concerned. His works in those subject areas are more like high school treatments, with the number of errors and overgeneralisations far outweighing any facts squeezed inbeween those problem areas.
P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 10:34, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Czech Slovak Splitting[edit]

Why did Czechoslovakia split into 2 countries, Czech Republic and Slovak Republic? Why is the revolution called "Velvet"

Velvet Revolution gives some info. - Akamad Merry Christmas to all! 00:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Then read Velvet Divorce. Basically, the top Slovak politician at the time wanted greater power for Slovakia, and the top Czech politician wanted to get Slovakia out of the way so his party could proceed with rapid economic reforms that were less popular in Slovakia. Most of the population was quite ambivalent. The events were called "Velvet" because there was no violence (at least, on the part of the revolutionaries). -- Mwalcoff 04:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

December 26[edit]

Did Fidel Castro ever attend Harvard?[edit]

Did Fidel Castro ever attend Harvard?
Mary Ann Mulet

Not according to Fidel Castro. Perhaps you were thinking U of Havana? Also, I've removed your e-mail address. See "How to Ask a Question" up top. Jasongetsdown 01:10, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • He once wanted to attend Harvard to study economics but was not admitted, apparently.[35] [36] --Fastfission 16:12, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

who wrote Brave New World?[edit]

First sentence of Brave New World. —Keenan Pepper 02:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
by Aldous Huxley. User:AlMac|(talk) 10:04, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
(You shouldn't just give the answer like that. It encourages people to come back to the RD with more trivial questions.) —Keenan Pepper 21:42, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


Review and comment whether the existing laws in the following areas are adequte to protect a claimant injured by a defective product:-

  1) Contractual liability.
  2)Liability under the tort of negligence and.
  3)Criminal liability.
There's no clear answer here. Ralph Nader would likely say #3 only (at least if it were beefed up), while more market-oriented people would say 1 and 2 are sufficient. Surely data exist for this sort of thing—for example, look at countries with strong corporate liability laws vis-a-vis those that don't, and see whether there's a significant difference in the relevant categories of casualties. --zenohockey 04:09, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Depends on nations involved and what's in the contract. It can also vary from state to state within a nation.
It may be neccessary to prove that the damage came from a defect in what product. Often damage also damages the evidence. Consider a fire due to a faulty product that caught fire, but how to you prove what started the fire? The cost of litigation to prove the product fault can be excessive for the victim. User:AlMac|(talk) 10:06, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
You'll find some useful information in the Product liability article. JamesMLane 05:37, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Nepolianic Wars[edit]

Date of war with Russia

Napoleon (note spelling) invaded Russia in 1812. See the article on Napoleon's Invasion of Russia. --zenohockey 04:13, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Music in Léon the Professional[edit]

There is this really cool scene in leon the professional where the crazy police cheif guy breaks into the guy's apartment and kills his entire family to the music of beethoven. There is this quote - "I like these calm little moments before the storm; it reminds me of beethoven" Then he kicks down the door and murders the entire family with beethoven's music in the background. At the end he corners the guy that is holding out on him and says "you don't like beethoven - you don't know what you're missing" then he kills him.

I love this song as it is so powerfull and fits the scene so perfectly. However, it is not listed in the credits and I can not find it anywhere. Has anyone that has seen this movie recognize it?--God of War 07:15, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

If I recall correctly (it's been a while since I've seen it) it's Symphony No. 9. I remember thinking it was a reference to A Clockwork Orange (film), in which the same piece is used. Natgoo 11:26, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Wasn't the police chief drinking milk in that scene? David Sneek 11:42, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
  • The Ninth symphony is very long. Do you know which movement the movie uses?--God of War 02:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The Fourth (Ode to Joy)? Or perhaps the Second. Natgoo 11:58, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

List of persons awarded tiltles such as Rai Bahadur etc. during British rule in India[edit]

The British Govt of India used give titles such as Rai Bahadur etc to prominent Indians. I would like to find a source where I could see a list of such awards, with names, dates and other details if possible.

Thank you

There is a list of many of such titles here. Do a search for the text "awarded with a decoration during British rule" --Canley 11:46, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Just William (by Richmal Crompton)[edit]

I would be grateful if you could please answer the following questions about the story “William and the Nasties” which appeared in the book “William the Detective.”

1. You write that “Crompton herself [who died in 1969] decided that the story was inappropriate and had it removed.” From which impression of the edition published by George Newnes did it stop appearing?

2. You also write that it appeared in the Armada Paperback edition published in the 1970s. Did it appear in all the editions brought out by Armada?

3. Macmillan Publishers said in 1999 that they had withdrawn this story “several years ago.” In which year did they do this?

Thank you.

(Dr.) C. Simons

  • I have posted your questions at Talk:Just William where someone who knows maybe able to help. adamsan 22:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


how safe are indian workers and professionals in islamic countries.

  • As safe as anyone else. If they happen to be seen as American or as a spy for Americans in countries like Iraq, they might risk being abducted or killed, but I would expect them to be relatively safe in countries like Egypt and Algeria. Why do you ask? - Mgm|(talk) 15:44, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
    • There's an Indian migrant worker who's about to have his eye gouged out with the full approval of Saudi Arabian justice after he got into a fight with a local. The local lost sight in one eye in the fight although the Indian says it was result of self defence when he was attacked. It's been a big story in India and their government is appealing for clemency or for the local to accept the blood money instead. From other stories I've read, I get the impression a lot of low status immigrant workers get a rough deal in the Middle East. adamsan 13:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Majority of expat population in Gulf countries such as Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and Kuwait are Indians which testifies their safety in these Islamic countries--Tachs 06:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Muses in cult practice[edit]

In the Wikipedia article on "Muse", under the subheading "Muses in myth", is the following statement (in reference to the three original muses):

"Together they form the complete picture of the preconditions of poetic art in cult practice."

Can anyone provide me with more information about this specific statement? The article on "Cult" does not mention anything about the three muses importance in cult practice and I would like to know more about it. Does anyone have a reference that I could track down which might address this specific point?

Thank you for any help you can provide me. Basil

I do not know the authors of that article, but I suspect that they were referring to "cultus" rather than "cult," that it was a suggestion that the Muses were an exceptionally primitive feature of the Greek mythos and that they represent deferred aspects of creativity and artistic production in a cultus. However, that statement does beg for a reference in comparative mythography and comparative religion. Geogre 23:29, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Musical works by Genre by Key[edit]

We have an article on each of the major and minor keys, which in some cases provide a few examples of well-known works in that key. What I'm after is a place where I can find a list of all, say, violin sonatas in D minor, or B major, or any other key, and any other genre I care to name, with works listed by key. Is there such a list anywhere? JackofOz 20:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Apparently not. I'll have to create one some time. JackofOz 23:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Canadian Constitution[edit]

Has the not-withstanding clause of the ever been invoked? ---20:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

See Section Thirty-three of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, aka the notwithstanding clause. Search first next time, it's quicker. --Robert Merkel 12:15, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Fine Art - Surrounding Modernity.[edit]

Hello, I am hoping to have some feedback and general opinions, or if anyone can direct me i would be hugely greatful!

The Term ‘modernity’ represents a state of mind induced by conditions of social and economic change. In what ways has this been expressed in art?

Thanks for anything relevant in which you can provide me. Laura

-- 21:22, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Expressed in the form of Modern art. --Menchi 22:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


What kind of musical instrument is accordeon?

See accordion :-) --HappyCamper 21:54, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Greek kite inventor[edit]

I read somewhere a few months ago that the first known kite in western history was invited by an Ancient Greek philosopher. Anybody here know the philosopher's name? --KeeganB--

Not greek, not a philosopher, and not the inventor of kites, but Aulus Gellius might be who you want. He was a Roman who spent time in Greece in the 2nd century AD. His Attic Nights, written in Latin, is a fascinating and quirky collection of accounts of things and people and events and opinions. I think he mentions kites and it may be the earliest western account of a kite but he does not claim to have invented it. The most enjoyable but generally unknown classical work I have ever read-- sort of a cross between Pliny and Herodotus, Gellius has no overall theme or progression, just a long series of interesting items. I highly recommend it.

More info. I found the Gellius passage (book X, chapter xii). He describes a Greek of Tarentum (i.e. a Greek in southern Italy) named Archytas who was a Pythagorean who devised a dove-like thing out of wood that flew on the winds but could not rise again after landing... and at this point there is a hole in the text. So, here is a Greek philosopher, probably around 400 BC, credited with making something that flew by itself out of wood. Some people think it sounds more like a rocket, but I'll bet it is what you were looking for. alteripse 00:31, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

December 27[edit]

A Question Based Within Fine Art[edit]

Hey people

I have 2 questions, based within the subject of fine art. I'm having difficulty finding anything specific to the questions i have. I looked on the side, but nothing seemed overly relevant, so if anyone can give me any help or information, i would greatly appreciate it!!

1) Explain and discuss the reason for the widely held assumption that 'mass culture' is inferior to 'high art'

2) In what ways have the 'travelling cultures' that accomapny glabalism influenced the way we see ourselves and others?

Thankyou! Laura

-- 01:37, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Maybe you're looking in the wrong places. Try the article on Popular culture (rather than "mass culture"), in particular the Criticisms section. Also, see Fine art rather than "high art". For the second question, try Globalization. There's not much, but it depends on how long your homework is meant to be. --Canley 04:07, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Ignoring the fact that those look a lot like homework questions, which the reference desk doesn't answer, they have the further disadvantage of being really complex and controversial. Good answers would require a lot of reading in several topics. For the first question, I suggest you drop by your local library and look up books on cultural theory and popular culture. There are a lot of introductory textbooks. I've had good luck with the text and reader by John Storey. You'd also want to read on aesthetics. I'm not so qualified to talk about the latter question, so I leave that to others. --George 21:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Interesting that there is another user with similar interests and spelling to my own. One thing to remember about the dichotomy between "high" and "low" culture is that it is quite common for professional cultural workers to quote or co-opt low culture, either ironically or not. For example, Pop Art ironically praised mass reproduction as a central fact of low culture and suggested that all art is now disposable. On the other hand, Soviet realism and various offshoots of Marxist art praised the aesthetics of the worker and the folk, and "high" culture was a troubled recreation of the "low" proletariat's taste. Generally, however, the distinction between high and low culture is one of presumed intention. If art is created with the intent of being art, it is high. If it is created with the intent of performing some other function (e.g. selling perfume), it is low art. Commerce, in other words, is one distinction. The other is training. Although folk art] and primitivism and various neo-primitive movements praised and quoted the untrained artist, since at least Classicism we in the west have had an assumption that art made by those who have studied art (and this is true of literature) is superior to art made by those who have not. This is because the trained artist will achieve the goals of compression, greater mimesis, and high "finish." These criteria for art go back, somewhat, to Aristotle and the Poetics: How like is the artwork (and mimesis is a goal even in abstract expressionism and surrealism, although the mimesis is not of sensory reality)? How well executed is it? How much meaning is compacted into the work? (This last is a modern criterion.) The trained artist will achieve these things better than the untrained artist. Add to this the artist as vates that came along with Romanticism and intensified with most types of Modernism, and you get a dark line between the "real" artist and the "uncouth" artist. Geogre 23:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Assuming you're a college student, go to the library and look at Noel Carroll's A Philosophy of Mass Art (NX180.M3 C37 1997; also look at other books with that call number). It should provoke some thought, at the least. --zenohockey 05:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

church of the subgenious[edit]

hi! I have read the article about the church of the subgenious and the panphelts, I find it really funny, but I wonder if the people who belong to that 'religion' take it as only a parody or do they take it really seriously...because it sometimes seems they do, specially when they talk about this..jeovah 1 haha... u know... anything can be, so I'm just wondering...

That's Church of the Subgenius (but if you can't spell it, Bob wants you). Certainly no one at the core of the group sees it as a serious religion, but it would be hard to promise that none of their "followers" do. -- Jmabel | Talk 09:16, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Hal Bevan-Petman[edit]

hello, I am looking up material for my website on the British painter Hal Bevan-Petman. I have started a website and am interested in locating people who have info or paintings done by him. any input is welcome I would be happy if the link on his website is put on your site. At the moment, a search on his name did not yield anything Romano K Yusuf

I suggest starting an article, and watching it grow. You can add your link yourself. Just click Hal Bevan-Petman (or is it Hal Bevan Petman?), and start editing. TheMadBaron 07:30, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Tourism Industry[edit]

Dear Madam or Sir, I am a lecturer in University.Could you please inform me a bout the following question:

IS a Journalist a tourist? Is it correct that Iran is the 10th country (in WTO prespective)of historical area?

Journalism is vocation for a journalist whereas tourist is a person on vacation unless he is travelling for professional reasons--Tachs 07:29, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Occasionally, however, foriegn journalists will claim to be tourists for the purposes of gaining entry to a country that refuses to allow journalists to enter, or to enter without attracting attention (and thus the ability to investigate issues which that country would prefer to keep hidden). However, this is just a "white lie" - by definition, a working journalist is not a tourist (though, occasionally, journalists will combine a holiday with the opportunity to write about the places they visit).
As to your second question, I can't understand what you are asking. Could you please rephrase your question? Are you referring to the World Trade Organization? Secondly, what do you mean "of historical area"? I presume this is a piece of jargon, but I think something may have gotten lost in the translation. --Robert Merkel 11:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Exhausting possibilities[edit]

Alphabet contains 26 letters (don't forget punctuation: ! ? , ; - " ) é à : ), printing machines date back to 1440, and at that time, around 1000 books were printed each year (nowadays it is around 700000). Could you tell me when all combinations will be exhausted ? When will literature be redundant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

  • Possibilities are not limited to just alphabets or punctuations, but to words, combination of words, sentences, paragraphs, combination of them and so on and so forth; the good news is that literature will never be redundant. But individual books can be redundant based on their forms and content --Tachs 10:44, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Short answer: not before an asteroid wipes out humanity.
Long and rather mathematical answer:if there are n different possible characters in your set of legal English characters, there are possible two-character works, three-character works, and possible works of length . Only a tiny fraction of those are legal and meaningful English. Seeing that there is no exact definition of legal English, determining exactly how many there are is impossible. However, some experts in data compression and linguistics have done some studies to estimate this for their own purposes, and their calculation is that, on average, there are about two possibilities for each character in a work of English (for the technically minded, the entropy of English is about one bit per character). Therefore, if the work is characters long, there are possible works of that length. If we take the average length of a book as one million characters, there are roughly possible books of *exactly* that length. That's approximately , or 1 with 300,000 zeroes after it. That's a ridiculously enormous number. By comparison, according to the Wikpedia there are approximately people on the Earth. If they all wrote one book every second for a million years, that would be approximately books, an infinitesimally small fraction of all the possible books just of the exact length.
Exponential growth is a big thing to get your head around; it apparently fooled an Indian king once [37]. --Robert Merkel 12:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Alternately, Wiktionary has 108,900 entries; the OED more than twice that with 301,100. The Hobbit, a fairly average length book, has 97,470 words. If I were to pick 97,470 words at random from the Oxford English Dictionary, I could get 29,348,217,000 different books. Most would be meaningless, but millions of these would still be understandable literature. And remember literature can vary in length from a few well chosen words to hundreds of thousands, if not millions. So if even only a tiny fraction of those books were meaningful, there would still be enough possible books to bore even the most committed bookworm. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 14:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Um, what? 301,10097,470 is a helluva lot more than 29,348,217,000. In fact, it should have about 534,010 digits. It looks like you just multiplied 301,100 and 97,470, which makes no sense. —Keenan Pepper 16:52, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Oops! That was stupid of me. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 17:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
See the Infinite monkey theorem. --hydnjo talk 20:52, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The above answers are rather practical, but in fact literature can never be exhausted. In any language there are an infinite number of valid sentences, and indeed an infinite number of infinitely long valid sentences. To rudely swipe an easy example from one of my old textbooks: "Mary gave the book to John, who gave it to Helen, who gave it to my friend, who gave it to the teacher, who gave it to Joe, who gave it to Albert, who gave it to his mother..." and so on. This fact was central to Noam Chomsky's thought when he was doing early work on generative-transformational linguistics. So even with a finite number of characters and a finite number of grammatical rules, literature will never be exhausted. --George 22:33, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe a young John Stuart Mill was quite worried about this, too. --zenohockey 05:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
There are an infinite number of variations. Jorge Luis Borges toyed with this idea in his short story "The Library of Babel", in which a library contains every possible 410-page book. This library turned out to be the size of one whole universe, so I guess that has to be quite a lot of books. And if you expand that to a library containing every possible n-page book, I guess it will have to be infinitely big.... In the story, most of the books contained nonsense, too, such that the librarians would rejoice when they found a single meaningful page or even a word. Igor the Lion(Roar!) 07:14, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, as our article The Library of Babel points out, if the books are of a particular length (or even if there is a maximum length) the possibilities are not infinite; just dauntingly large. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Oh yes, how silly of me. I stand corrected. Igor the Lion(Roar!) 15:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
On the silly side of the same concept as Borges, Terry Pratchett worked up the concept of L space for his Discworld novels, where libraries of finite size are actually infinite in reality. Geogre 12:27, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
There's something I've never heard mentioned in a discussion of this sort, which is that books take time to write, and language changes. Even in a few years, there are enough changes just in everyday vocabulary that Webster puts out new editions. That completely leaves out technical language, which grows as the fields they describe do, and the complexities of grammar. Add to that that the symbols used to represent the language change over time, and the acceleration of all these processes that has been caused by the widespread use of Netspeak and 733t, and last of all, that the ideas being expressed progress from one generation to the next, albeit slowly in some areas. This means two things. First: the books being actually written are confined to a certain large area of language and concept, and that area grows and changes as time goes on. Second: Even the mathematical analysis of how combinations of symbols can be printed changes as new symbols are made up that aren't equivalent to old ones, and as old ones are phased out. In other words, even if through some infinite orgy of publication all books that can be written using today's many languages are written, in a few hundred years the languages will have changed enough to allow more. Black Carrot 19:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Norman Edwards[edit]

I am attempting to find brief biographical details of the above, who was editor of TV Mirror in 1955 and Everybody's Magazine 1956. Can anyone please assist

Are you sure about the title "Everybody's Magazine" and the date "1956"? According to our library, "Everybody's Magazine" ran from Sep-1899 - Jul-1921. It then went on as "Everybody's" from Aug-1921 - Mar-1929 and as "Everybody's Combined with Romance" from Jun-1929 - Jan-1930. --Kainaw (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hulk v.s. Abomination[edit]

How many times has the Incredible Hulk fought the Abomination?

It looks like this site lists them all. --Canley 14:16, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

December 28[edit]

Review and comment whether the existing laws in Hong Kong in the following areas are adequate to protect a claimant injured by a defective product:-

a) Contractual liability.

b) Liability under the tort of negligence.

c) Criminal liability.

I will be very thankful for your review and comments about Hong Kong Laws

a) That's not a question, professor.
b) Is this homework? --Canley 14:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

If i was a professor why would I ask a Q like that.

Because beginning a question with "Review and comment" requires the student to think, connect words to make sentences, and then connect those sentences to make complete thoughts. Although, you will mostly just get: "There are like some laws in Hong Kong and stuff and they like do stuff and stuff."
Regardless, the ability to sue for your own stupidity isn't as easy in Hong Kong as it is in the United States. Thats what makes it frustrating I don't want a comprehensive answer I need to get a little bit of info to starte and then It would be fine. If u can do that--Kainaw (talk) 19:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Southern Football League[edit]

In the Southern League (football) (also here), how is the number of points determined? Thelb4 13:48, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Almost certainly the same as in every other English football league - three points for a win, one for a draw. Morwen - Talk 16:46, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

social factors and issues affecting number development[edit]

why do some adults in society have limited numeracy attainment?

Another topic where I have opinions but no good citations. I believe skills in adulthood have a lot to do with environment to which children are exposed, such as encouragement to fully participate in schooling intended to help kids become competent in certain things, combined with some genetic predispostion to be particularly good at certain things. User:AlMac|(talk) 21:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

danilo gonzales vega of san antonio zambales[edit]

im looking for this person named danilo gonzales vega of san antonio zambales only son of gloria bautista gonzales,if anyone known this person plss kindly tell them as soon as anyone read this messege,this will be a big help to her brother (elpidio bautista gonzales)

In the USA, the Salvation Army has a program to help families get reunited. You might check whether there is an equivalent service by charitable organizations in whatever nation you in. User:AlMac|(talk) 21:19, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

midevil literature[edit]

in which way did the arab empire influence the midevil literature?

  • Please see the note above about doing your own homework. Here is a start: you should try researching "medieval literature". Ground Zero | t 22:15, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Also look into Granada and the Fall of Granada and/or reconquista, depending upon which of those links is blue. Geogre 22:44, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia even has an article called medieval literature. Try using the search function at the left of your screen next time. Ground Zero | t 17:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


has there been any progress in philosophy in the history of mankind? or are we always left with the same questions? I mean, even if it was just a slight progress, was there any?

Define what you mean by "progress". A number of useful concepts have been collected over the last 2500 years. See history of philosophy. alteripse 22:28, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

yes, that is progress indeed, but I meant more like, solving some logical problem, or has that not yet been acomplished?

Many "logic problems" have been solved. I don't understand what you are asking. alteripse 22:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

exaclty THAT, I want to know WHICH logic problems have been solved.

Tell us what you mean by "logic problem"; over the centuries many different kinds of problems and solutions have been considered "logic problems". Solved logic problems range from trivial to so abstruse they must be expressed symbolically or mathematically. Aristotelian logic provided verbal and thought systems (e.g., syllogism) for ordinary deduction. These were expanded, systematized and applied to solvable and unsolvable problems by the scholastic philosophers. If you look at the questions they tried to address by logic (e.g., the existence of God), you will recognize that their answers did not satisfy everyone because of the dubiety of their starting premises, and this type of logic problem was allocated to the Queen of the Sciences. By the 19th century, many logic problems had been considered mathematical problems if the systems of mathematical reasoning seemed more applicable. By the early 20th century, logical positivists like Bertrand Russell tried to turn all meaningful problems into mathematically solvable logic problems. Ludwig Wittgenstein, among others, demonstrated how some problems were meaningless artefacts of language. In the last three decades, a huge amount of effort has been put into expressing everyday questions in computable language so that logic machines (computers) can contribute to the solutions. There are examples of questions in every one of those topics that could be considered "logic questions" but I have a suspicion that your idea of it is far narrower, so before I spend more time on coming up with things that don't fit your concept of a "logic problem", I would like to have a better idea what that is. alteripse 12:18, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

thank you,I meant just that, what you are saying, logical problems or paradoxes like the existence of god, or the existence of 'polar opposites' and stuff like that, like 'existence and non existence' or 'love and hate' (eventhough maybe those are only part of our psyche and don't have any separate existence of their own)...What did Bertrand Russell conclude on the existence of god for example? through his logical way of trying to answer that? I'm aware that he was an agnostic, as I am too, but correct me if i'm wrong. wow I also didn't know they called Theology the Queen of the Sciences !! That's cool, I consider it the pillar of knowledge also, of course.

Russell was an agnostic/atheist - see our article on him for that info. However, he didn't approach the question of god's existence as a problem of (say) mathematical logic. Rather, his opinion arose because 1) he didn't find arguments for god's existence compelling, and 2) he was an early analytic philosopher.
In any case, it sounds like you're asking more about the grand old questions of philosophy than about problems of dry logic - that is, you're more concerned with ethics than with the Peano axioms. I think, in that case, there has been some progress. Certainly there are arguments widely accepted today that were not known at some point in the past - the skeptical arguments of people like Descartes and Hume spring right to mind, though admittedly most working philosophers don't spend their time trying to prove that they are not in fact just dreaming all the time. Similarly, some things that were once widely believed are now widely and properly agreed to be tenuous at best - the conventional arguments for god's existence spring to mind. So that's progress, I think. --George 19:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC) for the 'dreaming' thing, I think the pyrroists (I misspelled it I guess)already knew, it's not only from descartes on, and about the 'God' thing, I don't have any compelling arguments for his/her/its existence but I feel that nature is way too paradoxical for it to not have some deeper meaning, but then again... maybe that is just my subjectivity as a human being and it has no objective existence of its own. and yes I do not mean the logical mathematical problems, but I mean, the paradoxes of existence, and besides that 'fact' that we can't know 100% acurately if we are dreaming I don't know anything that can be that irrefutable.


I have not been able to find an explanation in Wikipedia of the different functions of the senate and house of representatives.

Is the only difference that (and I quote from Wikipedia)

"there are some special powers granted to one chamber only. On the one hand, the Senate's advice and consent is required for presidential appointments to high-level executive and judicial positions, and for the ratification of treaties. On the other hand, bills for raising revenue may originate in the House of Representatives alone?"

What is the purpose of establishing the two houses?

If the senate is is not a "chamber of review," like the British House of Lords what is it?

Is the senate considered superior in any way?

Is a senator more prestigious than a mere congressman? If so why?

I would appreciate it if you would please elaborate on the distinctions.

Thanks Maurice

The Senate gives equal representation to each state (2 senators each). The House gives equal representation to the population (a single representative to approximately equally populated groups). Combined, they are intended to cancel out the inherent problems with each system. In general, the Senate is more powerful than the House. The main reason is in the number of people in the House. It is easier to pay off a few senators than it is pay off a hundred or so representatives. --Kainaw (talk) 23:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
The Senate is simply another legislative chamber. Bills have to pass both of them.
The idea for the Senate came from the House of Lords in London. The Senate was to be the more-aristocratic upper house to restrain the democratic excesses of the popularly elected upper house. This dichotomy has been less of an issue since the 17th Amendment established direct election of senators. The two chambers also allowed for a compromise between those who that wanted equal representation for all of the states, as was the case in the old Continental Congress, and those who wanted representation by population.
Unlike the House of Lords, the Senate has never seen its power dissipate.
Although the Senate is the "upper house," it's tough to say which chamber is more powerful. The House of representatives is more partisan, so gaining control of the House allows a party to ram legislation through more easily. But in the Senate, only 40 dissenting voices can stall legislation, so you need to be on the Senate's good side if you want important legislation passed. Only the House can introduce appropriations bills, but the Senate ratifies treaties and approves executive appointments. Also, senators traditionally have great influence on judicial appointments in their states.
Being a senator is certainly more prestigious than being a member of the House, because there are more than four representatives for every senator. Senators get far more publicity, which is why people like John Kerry and Bob Dole could run for president. -- Mwalcoff 05:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Let me emphasize a point mentioned briefly above. The House of Representatives was always an elected body, but until the 17th amendment took effect in 1913, Senators were appointed by their state legislatures. Further, members of the House are elected for 2 years while Senators serve a 6-year term (the amendment did not change this). So the makeup of the House would reflect changes in the public mood relatively rapidly, while the Senate would not only reflect the state's interests, it would also change more slowly, dampening out short-term fluctuations in public opinion. --Anon, 10:25 UTC, Dec. 29

There are also technical differences between the chambers for certain functions such as Impeachment and when no candidate receives a majority of the electoral votes for President. In impeachment, the House serves as the prosecutors and the Senate serves as a panel of judges. When nobody has a majority of the Electoral votes, the Senate elects a Vice-President with each Senator casting his or her own vote, but the House elects the President with each state getting one vote (meaning that you could have fractions of votes if all the Republicans from California, for example, voted for one candidate and all the Democrats voted for another candidate). User:Zoe|(talk) 19:49, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

vietnam protests[edit]

I am writing a paper exploring whether -- or how -- the anti-VietNam protests, such as those organized by the Berrigan brothers, lead to change in government policy and decisions. ==

Greetings, Reference Guide -- I feel that my paper on the Viet Nam protests, and their influence on policy, would be more alive and relevant if I could consult Father Daniel Berrigan on the subject. Could you please tell me if Father Berrigan keeps an email or postal address where I might approach him?

With many thanks in advance, ~ D. Berger

Father Daniel Berrigan lives at the West Side Jesuit Community, 220 West 98th Street, New York, NY 10025-5669. --Canley 04:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I assume you mean anti–Vietnam War protests, not protests against Vietnam. Vietnam is a country, not a war, you ignorant retard. If you really are writing a paper on the topic you ought to at least get this straight.
  • "Ignorance and stupidity and not the same. If you call a person stupid, and he is merely ignorant, you are stupid." Quote from P. J. Plauger, admired by Halcatalyst 01:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC).

December 29[edit]

What do you have on Quietism?

Have you looked at quietism? Please remember to use the search bar on the left. Flea110 06:00, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

geoge lucas[edit]

I saw a tv show on George Lucas and one of his mentors was a man (Ithink) named Jonathon Powell a visionary and writer. Is this correct or can you help me out with his name??? Thank you, Char

Is it Francis Ford Coppola? Flea110 06:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Kirsty Kruger[edit]

Was there, in the late 1800's early 1900's a famous person called Kirsty Kru(e)ger? My late wife was a child in the 1930's,always asking questions,and her uncle used to recite:- Kirsty Kruger there she sat. "Tell me this and tell me that.

Some questions about U.S. law[edit]

A few questions:

  1. If I wanted to see a bill, and see all the ammendments that led up to it becoming law, where would I look? If I then wanted to see any ammendments that were done on the law AFTER this, where would I look this up?
  2. Where do I find legilsation before the 100th U.S. Congress? doesn't carry public law before then!
  3. Where can I find the record of the debates in Congress over legislation?

If I could get info on this, it'll make it SO much easier to document the USA PATRIOT Act! - Ta bu shi da yu 15:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions to help you get what you desire:
  1. Sign up with your cable TV provider, or Direct TV (via satelite) or whatever, to get all of the different C-Span offerings. This way you can watch the process live.
  2. Link to the web pages of the US Legislative bodies, and their committees, which have markup of the bills, hearings, etc. on them.
    1. Spoiler Warning ... this can turn into a full time job of an army of people ... one person cannot possibly follow the whole process.

User:AlMac|(talk) 16:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Go to Thomas and search for H.R. 3162 in the 107th Congress. Click on "Bill Summary & Status File." You'll see that H.R. 3162 was the combination of three bills, H.R. 2975 (the PATRIOT Act), S. 1510 (the USA Act) and part of H.R. 3004 (the Financial Anti-Terrorism Act). Click on each, then click on "Text of Legislation." You'll be able to access the text of the bill at different stages of the legislative process.
  • For a more-detailed look at the bills' changes in committee, click on "Major Congressional Actions" for H.R. 2975 and then "H. Rept. 107-236." Then click on "Purpose and Summary" and read on. You can do the same thing to get the committee report for H.R. 3004.
  • I don't think there's an easy way to find changes made to the law since 2001. The law changed many parts of the US Code, so you can't just go to a point in the code and look at the footnotes. One thing you could do is to do a search on Thomas for other legislation that has passed Congress that contains the words "Patriot Act" or "Public Law 107-56" (or "P.L. 107-56"). You could also note down the code sections (such as "28 USC 509") listed in the GPO's online copy of PL 107-56 and then look up those sections individually on Cornell's US Code page to see if they have changed, using the "Notes" and "Updates" functions on that service.
  • Thomas does carry laws passed in the 100th Congress. Click on "Public Laws," then click on "View 100-93."
  • To see the debates for a bill, go back to the bill's Summary and Status page in Thomas, click on "All Congressional Actions," then click wherever you see a link after the letters "CR." That will take you to the Congressional Record page for that discussion. -- Mwalcoff 00:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


Does anyone know who or what was ishbabibl? Thank you.

Ish Kabibble was a Jewish-American comedian whom we don't seem to have a page on. See the imdb entry at The name derives from a Yiddish phrase which means, believe it or not, "What, me worry?" User:Zoe|(talk) 19:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

We have the article now... however small. Dismas|(talk) 21:27, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

non muslims and mecca?[edit]

when were non-muslims prevented from entering Mecca? (posted by

  • I assume you noticed that on the Mecca article. There is no proof of that assertion, so I'm tagging it for an expert to verify and correct. Thanks for asking, and hopefully an expert on the subject will fix the article in a way that answers your question, too. --Mareino 22:23, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Britannica states "Non-Muslims are not permitted to enter its gates." - Akamad Happy new year! 22:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Then again, how trustworthy is Britannica? - Akamad Happy new year! 22:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
What I've heard, and just verified by asking Muslims I work with, is that during the pilgrimage time is when access to Mecca is restricted. It is highly overpopulated and there are a lot of people trying to make a quick buck off the pilgrims. Outside of the pilgrimage time, Mecca is open to all. --Kainaw (talk) 00:00, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
From the page of the Saudi embassy in London: "Makkah and Madinah hold special religious significance and only persons of the Islamic faith are allowed entry." ([38]) -- Mwalcoff 00:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes Thats right Only Muslims are allowed in Makkah and Madinah becuase They Are special religious places.

thanks guys :) but my question was "when were non-muslims prevented from entering Mecca?"

My understanding is that pretty much since non-Muslims began to travel through the Arab world and were physically able to reach the place. Certainly, Sir Richard Burton had to disguise himself when he visited in 1853. --Robert Merkel 11:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

where was WW1 armistice signed?[edit]

(no body text)

Muslim burial[edit]

According to our article on Qibla: After death, Muslims are buried with their faces in the direction of the Qibla. So are Muslims buried laying on their side? If a person is buried while laying on their back then they're facing the zenith, not any earthly place. So could someone explain this? Dismas|(talk) 18:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

This site states that: "The dead body should be laid in the grave on its right side so that the face remains towards the Qibla," and "If a non-Muslim woman dies with a dead child, or soulless foetus in her womb, and if the father is a Muslim then the woman should be laid in the grave on her left side with her back towards Qibla, so that the face of the child is towards Qibla." - Akamad Happy new year! 22:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
That reasoning implies a fetus always faces its mother's back, which of course isn't true. Interesting, though. - Nunh-huh 17:43, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Norwegian Chocolate Company[edit]

I've been trying to Google a specific Norwegian cholocate company without luck. They produce relatively cheap chocolate bars in Norway and the logo is a dancing purple cow. Does this ring a bell with anyone? --Kainaw (talk) 20:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure it's Norwegian? Milka[39], originally a Swiss company, use a purple cow in their ads. Natgoo 22:54, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Yep. That's it. I thought it was Norwegian because I've never been to a Swiss grocery store. --Kainaw (talk) 23:02, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


(no question)

If you wish to donate to Wikipedia, please look here. - Akamad Happy new year! 22:25, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

More Men or Women Worldwide?[edit]

What is the ration of men vs. women worldwide?

Roughly 1% more men than women, across the entire population. Shimgray | talk | 23:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Where did you hear that, shimgray? (not that i'm saying you're wrong). Does anyone know why there are more men than woman? I would think that there would be more women, as us men throughout history have tended to be killed a lot in wars and whatnot... Though in some countries having boys has been considered to be better than having girls. Hmmm, anyone able to shed any light on this? Flea110 07:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
This statistic has been roughly consistent through time. John Arbuthnot was the first to try to explain why birth rates do not follow the laws of probability. He figured that boys die sooner but girls die in childbirth, so God adjusted the birth rate accordingly. Ironically, evolutionary biologists and anthropologists suggest something similar: you need fewer males to inseminate and more girls to bear children, so it's good to have more girls than boys. Biologically, there are other explanations. Y-chromosome sperm use more energy and swim faster, so they die more quickly, and their production depends upon warmth. Hence, they simply don't make it to the egg as often as x-chromosome bearing sperm. At any rate, the general production of girls is slightly higher than boys and has been for a long time. However, the question is which sex survives childhood better (girls) and which maturity and child bearing (boys) and to adult children (girls), so whether there are more women than men is different from whether there are more girls than boys and more middle aged boys or girls. Geogre 12:43, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm confused. If it has been consistent throughout time that there are roughly 1% more men than women worldwide, how does that fit with there being more girls born? 23:34, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't. See the article sex ratio: more boys are born (about 51% of births, in the absence of sex-selective abortion). If boys and girls survived equally to reproduce, Ronald Fisher's work predicts a sex ratio of 1:1 (Roughly speaking, if there are fewer males than females, then males on average have more offspring than females do, so genes associated with more male births tend to do better in the population. And vice versa, leading to equilibrium.) However, boys and girls do not survive equally well: more boys die before reproducing. So the equilibrium is not at exactly 1:1.

However, looking at births only is a bit of a red herring, since the question asks about total population. The World Bank population projections [40] estimate that in 2005 there were 3.23 billion males and 3.19 billion females: that's about 50.3% male. Gdr 14:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

More Light Skinned vs. Dark Skinned Persons Worldwide?[edit]

What is the ratio of caucasians vs dark skinned persons worldwide?

What is your cutoff? Are Sicilians light or dark? What about Panamanians? Are you really just asking if there are more people who are clearly of African descent than those who are clearly of northern European descent? --Kainaw (talk) 23:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
In response to the question-
The region identified as being 'the Caucasus', according to that Wikipedia article's outline of such, has a total population (based on census data and estimates for 2005) of 30,286,069 humans.
Aside from that figure, an attempt to identify a group of humans as 'caucasian' is meaningless. Caucasian does not equal 'white', 'mostly white', or even 'kinda-sorta-beige'. It is an antiquated term when used for that purpose. If you want to know how some scientists actually pigeonhole groups of people according to genetic data, see the articles for haplogroup and haplotype. That kind of data does not categorise humans according to something as silly as the amount of melanin that their bodies produce (phenotype). Rather, it sorts them out according to specific series of chromosomal markers that tend to correlate with the migration of large amounts of people throughout history, which has some relevance for ethnographical studies like that which seems to have spawned your question here. I hope this helps you direct your research in this subject. For a more general background, check out this Wikipedia article catagory.
P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 10:10, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Caucasians can be reasonably dark skinned. See the definition. deeptrivia (talk) 18:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Did you mean Caucasoids? Again, they can be quite dark, and Mongoloids can be fair. deeptrivia (talk) 19:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

December 30[edit]

18th century european authors[edit]

who were the most influential and popular authors in europe and the u.s. between 1770 and 1870?

thank you!

A good place to start would be with our List of years in literature. --George 04:49, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I won't try to answer the question of who was most "influential", far too subjective. Many authors who were virtually unknown in their lifetimes became enormously influential in the 20th century -- Emily Dickinson and Herman Melville for example. Popular authors of that time period that come to mind include Charles Dickens, Victor Hugo, and Mark Twain -- each of whom attained rock-star levels of fame in the 19th century. The romantic poets (William Wordsworth, Samuel Coleridge, Percy Shelley, Lord Byron) were also enormously popular. --דוד ♣ D Monack 02:09, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
George Lippard (1822-1854), the brilliant but erratic 19th century American novelist, journalist, and playwright, though almost completely unknown today, was during the decade between 1844 and 1854 the most widely-read author in the United States. He befriended Edgar Allan Poe, advocated a socialist political philosophy, was an unheralded writer for the proletariat, and founded a secret benevolent society. As a writer he is, perhaps, deservedly forgotten today, yet in attempting to use seduction as a metaphor for the oppression of the helpless in his most popular The Monks of Monk Hall (1844), immediately pirated as The Quaker City (1844), he managed to outrage his readers with lingering descriptions of “heaving bosoms”, though such description also drew readers, and he sold many books. EdK 21:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

The Mayan Calendar[edit]

Would like to know...according to the Mayan Calendar, what is considered the seventh day...or Sabbath related to our present day calendar of Saturday or Sunday....Thank You

Off the top of my head, there's no "seventh day" in the Mayan Calendar, which has two kinds of weeks: a 13 day numbered week, and a 20 day named week. There are probably more details at Mayan calendar - Nunh-huh 03:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

British Army in Seven Years' War?[edit]

Were British troops ever deployed within Europe during the Seven Years' War? For example, were British soldiers ever deployed to reinforce or assist Prussian units? Or was the land war entirely left up to the Prussians? Thanks. --Brasswatchman 06:55, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

The website lists several battles in which British troops were engaged in the European theatre during the Seven Years War. --Canley 12:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Legal responsibilies of my parents towards me.[edit]

I live in BC Canada and I'm an 18 year old male. What, if any, are my parents legal responsibilities towards me? For example, must they provide food, shelter, etc? Flea110 07:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't have an answer for you, but would like to remind you that the editors of Wikipedia are not qualified to give you legal advice, per Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer. WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 07:58, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Do you have a job, or are you actively looking for one? - Mgm|(talk) 10:48, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I do have a job. A fairly low level one, but I've kept it for years. Flea110 01:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

In the US, according to a family law attorney with whom I am closely acquainted, parents have no legal obligation to provide anything to an offspring who has turned 18 (unless some unusual conditions prevail, e.g., that the child is too disabled to be independent). Obviously, Canadian law may differ. And obviously, most cultures consider there to be numerous ethical obligations both directions. alteripse 01:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

According to Age of majority, you are not an adult in British Columbia until the age of 19. I presume this means your parents are still required to house and clothe you until then, but I don't know enough about Canadian law to say exactly what's required of them. --דוד ♣ D Monack 02:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Heterosexual men and lesbians[edit]

Why are so many heterosexual men apparently so aroused by lesbian sex? Heterosexual women do not appear to be simlarly aroused by male homosexual activity. Has there been any sociological or psychological research into this phenomenon? Is it confined to all or part of the West, or is it a common phenomenon occuring in many of the world's cultures, perhaps connected somehow to men being more sexually aroused by visual stimuli than women? You can see that I'm speculating here, because is that even biologically rooted or is it a social construction in Western society? Has the fascination for lesbians amongst heterosexual men been present for a long time or is a recent phenomenon, perhaps fuelled by pornography? Any ideas? Maybe this deserves an article. 07:31, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I don't think it's about them having lesbian sex. A heterosexual man is simply aroused by seeing two attractive women. Nothing more. - Mgm|(talk) 10:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, lesbian sex satisfies the "one penis" rule. Some men do not want another penis in their fantasies. --Kainaw (talk) 13:22, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
This is pure speculation. But perhaps, looking at it from an evolutionary viewpoint, it's because with two women there is the possibility of producing two offspring. Whereas with a heterosexual woman, like you said: "Heterosexual women do not appear to be simlarly aroused by male homosexual activity", perhaps this is because they can only still have one offspring even if there was two males involved, thus making it no more appealing than a single male. - Akamad Happy new year! 15:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
It's not strictly true that no women are aroused by male homoeroticism. Yaoi manga is primarily targeted at women, for instance. GeeJo (t) (c) • 17-02-2017 23:42 (UTC)

To some extent this must depend on the person as well. I (male) personally am not terribly aroused by lesbian activity, while I do know several women that find gay sex extremely hot.

Well, it's really hard to say. Is it biological? I tend to say no, but there's notoriously little good historical data on lesbianism specifically, and few men commented in writing on how aroused they were by it. Ovid and Lucian wrote on the topic, but it's impossible to say how aroused they were by it. Certain writers in the Middle Ages commented on it, either unfavorably as a sin or just as a curiousity, but no one that I know of seemed turned on by it. The Chinese playwright Li Yu wrote at least one play about lesbian love in the mid-17th century (Pitying the Perfumed Companion springs right to mind) - but was he aroused by it? Presumably the Marquis de Sade found it worthwhile, because he wrote a fair amount of it (see, e.g., Philosophy in the Bedroom, late 18 century) - but again who can say how aroused he was by the numerous perversions he wrote about. There are homoerotic pictures of women from ancient history, but the earliest assuredly pornographic lesbian stuff I've seen is from the early 20th century, though it wouldn't surprise me if the folks at the Kinsey Institute have some earlier stuff in their archives. Point: We have a lot of writings about sex from around the world, but very few people have talked about being aroused by lesbianism until recent years.
So if it's not biological, what is it? Well, the folks above have hit the high points, so I won't repeat it. Some people have said that those straight men aroused by lesbian sex like to imagine themselves stepping in to be pleasured by two women, but I know of no research to support this; I've also queried a number of straight male friends, and none of them were consciously aware of such an urge. (Though I'm certain they wouldn't object if it happened.) So it's a bit of a mystery. --George 00:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I remember hearing Germaine Greer say it was because lesbian sex is the least threatening form of sex for men. No other fit men making lardy wankers feel inadequate. MeltBanana 02:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Of course, Ms. Greer also said that homosexuality was caused by "the inability of the person to adapt to his given sex role." So I'm not gonna cite her expertise on lesbianism. --George 05:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Lyrics to El Llorar[edit]

Where can I find the lyrics to the song El Llorar, as performed by the Kronos Quartet on their album Nuevo? Most of them are hard to make out just by listening, especially because they're basically yodeling for most of the song. =P —Keenan Pepper 07:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, the lyrics aren't in the liner notes and I got no hits when I googled my best guesses at certain phrases. Also, it's a traditional Mexican song so it should be public domain — I think I'll post the lyrics on Wikisource when I find them. —Keenan Pepper 07:48, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Continent of North America[edit]

Who were the first visitors to the Continent of North America?

Please see History of North America and Discoverer of the Americas. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Both of which start rather late. Anthropologists generally believe that the migration across the Bering Land Bridge was about 13,000 years ago. -- Jmabel | Talk 10:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, more recent research (both genetic and archaeological) suggests a much earlier first migration, about 30-40,000 years ago, not across Beringia, but by a coastal route.--Pharos 16:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


Layers of atmosphere

how high does the sky turn black

It appears to me that you are asking what altitude is required to be able to look up and see black instead of a blue sky. If so, none. Just wait until night. It is dependent on the time of day. In the middle of the day, it has to be much higher than aircraft normally fly at. --Kainaw (talk) 20:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't "turn black" at once, but "changes color" gradually. deeptrivia (talk) 03:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


What kept Hitler from invading Switzerland?

Short answer: Hitler. It was entirely up to him which nations he invaded.

Longer answer: Consider the difficulty of conquering a mountain nation where 100% of the adult males were trained in military defense of their homeland. Consider the value of Switzerland to the Third Reich in laundering national treasures, holocaust victims, and other war loot that neutral nations would not have paid for had they known where it came from. User:AlMac|(talk) 21:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I asked this question earlier this month. The answer that I received can be found in the archives here. Dismas|(talk) 21:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Cycladic Art[edit]

The articles on ancient Greece and Greek art are extensive and interesting, but I believe that a good article on ancient cycladic art is missing (see e.g. Museum of Cycladic Art).

Jesus Movement[edit]

Hi, did the Jesus Movement guys tend more toward socialism? or toward capitalism? to my understanding they tended toward some sort of socialism or comunism,but I just don't know, I find the socialism/capitalism thing really confussing since I equate capitalism more with non religious thinking and socialism with idealistic thinking which tends to be religious, but everyone seems to think this is backwards so...:| I mean, people equate capitalism with religion and socialism with atheism, but I sincerely think that is no more than a prejudice because it just doesn't make any sense to me but capitalism being rational, and socialism being some sort of idealistic thinking makes much more sense to me, seriously. by the way, I like capitalism , obviously.Cosmic girl 18:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi, Cosmic girl. You can learn more about the Jesus Movement by clicking on the link.
  • Some of these things you're interested in can be looked up on Wikipedia using the same words you used. Socialism, capitalism, atheism, religion... the relationship among these things is complicated. Socialism is an ideology (system of thinking) about politics and the economy. Capitalism, also an ideology, is about the economy and politics. Note the order of emphasis. Socialists and capitalists may be religious or atheists or agnostic (sort of in between). Atheism (not-god) is an ideology which rejects the ideology of religion, although most religious people are not ideologists. In a sense, anybody who thinks is an ideologist (interested in, perhaps driven by ideas). The word "idealism" is also obviously related to "ideas." Halcatalyst 01:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you :) --Cosmic girl 03:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Law Question: What is a "conditional discharge"?[edit]

I have tried to research exactly what the term means but many resources are quite vague on this topic. Wikipedia has an article on conditional discharge but it only covers Canadian and British law. My main question is: In the state of the New York, is a conditional discharge an agreement to wipe the defendant's record clean, assuming he or she does not violate the conditions laid forth? Any information and direction to further legal (publicly available) sources would be *very* much appreciated. Thank you.

Maybe this link will help. --Kainaw (talk) 02:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Kainaw, but I'm speaking of someone who has committed an offense, not of someone who's been institutionalized and released. I'm now hearing that "conditional discharge" is essentially the same thing as probation. Still not entirely sure what it means, but thank you.

As per Findlaw, "conditional release" is a release from custody, without the payment of bail, which imposes regulations on the activities and associations of the defendant." It's not a punishment or sentence. (The condition might be "stay within city limits, don't talk to your fellow gang members" etc.) "Probation" on the other hand, is a sentence for an offense. If you've gotten "conditional release" you're innocent, at least for a little while longer: if you've gotten "probation" you've been found guilty. Both are revokable (if you don't fulfill the conditions, back you go to custody). Used for less serious crimes like drug offenses. Neither is an agreement to seal the defendant's criminal record (an "expungement": if you want one of those, you need to apply separately (depending on how it goes: right after you are acquitted, or about a year after you're convicted). Anyway, if this relates to an actual real-life situation, you need to talk to a lawyer, especially if the conviction would involve civil disabilities - (for example, if you want to work for the government, you'll need a Certificate of Relief from Civil Disabilities.) - Nunh-huh 07:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
The inquirer asked about New York law, under which conditional discharge is a sentence. It's different from probation; in fact, one of the conditions for imposing this sentence is that the court must decide "that probation supervision is not appropriate." N.Y. Penal Law § 65.05(1)(a). The basic idea is that "when the court imposes a sentence of conditional discharge the defendant shall be released with respect to the conviction for which the sentence is imposed without imprisonment or probation supervision but subject, during the period of conditional discharge, to such conditions as the court may determine." N.Y. Penal Law § 65.05(2). If the defendant completes the time period specified in the sentence without having violated the conditions, then he or she has served his sentence. On the other hand, "if the defendant commits an additional offense or violates a condition, [the court may] revoke the sentence at any time prior to the expiration or termination of the period of conditional discharge." N.Y. Penal Law § 65.05(2). The device works similarly in the juvenile justice system. N.Y. Family Court Act § 353.1.
The foregoing is what I found in a very quick cruise through a proprietary database on New York law. I emphatically agree with Nunh-huh that, if this concerns a real-life situation, you need to discuss it with a lawyer -- specifically, a New York lawyer who practices criminal law. JamesMLane 22:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

December 31[edit]

Iowa Real Estate Exam[edit]

I am looking for free sample questions that might be on a Real Estate exam (preferably in Iowa). Can anybody provide a link? thanks a lot!! 02:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I googled the words in your title ("Iowa Real Estate Exam") and got about 995,000 references. You could do the same. Halcatalyst 01:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC) (also from Iowa)

I did do the same and I didn't find a single link to free sample questions. Lots of advertising junk though.

  • You're right. There is a lot of advertising junk. Therefore, I'd say any Internet search engine at this point is a waste of time for you.
  • Hmmmm. I went through this a couple of years ago for another type of certification. The local chapter of my professional society was very helpful. Is one available to you? Do you belong? They might be able to provide free resources. Do you know any real estate agents who have passed the test, who might give you some leads? (I know the business is very competitive. For that reason, the value to you of this advice might be what it costs you to read it. <smile>.) Halcatalyst 02:51, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


Any word on what happened during Sollog's scheduled December 6 trial? User:Zoe|(talk) 02:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I could only find two things on Google News, both of which briefly touch on Sollog's predictions about the Elizabeth Smart incident. --King of All the Franks 08:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

New Year's tradition[edit]

(header added by hydnjo for clarity)

When did the tradition of eating blackeyed peas, collard greens and pork on New Year's Day begin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

auglaize county courthouse[edit]

i would like to know the history of the auglaize county court house in specific is the story of the figure that was atop the courthouse in the 1960's thanks for any help you can give PS: pictures would be greatly appreciated thanks TONY

Hi, Tony. The statue is not of a real person, but Lady Justice. In this case, the statue was known locally as "The Copper Lady". You can read more here. A decent drawing of the courthouse is here. --King of All the Franks 08:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Question in probability, leading to a question in the existence of miracles and God[edit]

Given: Let us suppose that an 11-year old boy is playing ball with his friends near a street. Suppose a taxi cab is travelling at approximately 50 kph in the direction of the boy. Suppose the ball rolls out into the street, and the boy runs out to catch it. The taxi rams into him at approx. 50 kph, he flies into the air, rotates twice, lands on the other side of the street on his buttocks just in time to see another oncoming car stop right in front of him. He may then be rushed to the hospital, and his unsuspecting parents alerted.

Q: What are the chances that the boy could have survived? What are the chances that he escaped unscathed, with only very few and minor scratches, while the front of the taxi became dented? What are the chances that he suffered a concussion, got bruised, wounded, abraded, etc.? What are the chances that he did not?

N.B. Please answer rationally, and according to all the laws of motion, energy, thermodynamics, quantum electrodynamics, etc. AND please don't give answers like "That's impossible" or "That could never happen" or put useless and irrelevant "analogies" or stuff because, for now, this is purely hypothetical. For now. Igor the Lion(Roar!) 13:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Well I think it's hardly necessary to invoke fundamental physics here. I'm not an ER doctor or an experienced traffic cop, but I think it safe to say that the odds that he could have survived are reasonable, if hardly sure. The odds that he would escape with only minor scratches (with the taxi dent) are very, very small - getting smashed at 50 kph by an object that weighs over a ton is hardly good for your insides, and flying through the air isn't so good either. The chance that he got more severe wounds is quite good; the chance that we got no severe wounds is small, just as discussed above. I leave specific data to whatever experts we have around here. --George 19:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
See Idikulous R. Survival odds after being struck by taxi. J Hypothetical Traumatology 16:232-8, 1956. Study design: Twenty-eight hypothetical 11-year old boys were positioned in the middle of the street playing ball. Each was struck directly by a theoretical taxi moving at 50 kph. An fantasied ambulance was standing by and a make-believe full autopsy and/or trauma evaluation (depending on survival) was performed within 1 hour. Outcome: 21 died instantly or within one hour. Seven survived, but 6 required major surgery. Survival odds were greatly increased (P<0.05) if the taxi was yellow, but no boys struck by blue taxis survived. The last 14 boys required considerable coercion to complete the study. Conclusion: It is possible for a hypothetical 11 year old boy to survive being hit by a taxi moving at 50 kph. Applicability to 11 year old girls is uncertain and more research is called for.
Oh heck, you've got all the parameters wrong. You might just as well have said that his chances of survival were (1/10000)/0 or infinite. Leave it be. ;p Igor the Lion(Roar!) 08:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Here is an event that took place a few 100 years ago.

A cleric was once challange to debate on the existance of God. People set a date and the place for the debate to take place.

The place agreed for the debate to take place was on the other side of the river. On the day of the debate the cleric was late, he did not reach the place on time. Every-body asked why. He said when I reached the river there was no boat to bring me to this side of the river so I had to wait. Then after some time suddenly a tree was chooped down automatically and cut into appropriate pieces and the pieces started helding togather and started to form a boat. When the boat was complete I got into it and rowed to this side of the river. (note the boat was not made by anybody it automatically formed.

Now my question to you is do you or will a sensable human beleive something like this happened? If yes Why? and if not Why? Please answer these questions. I know u are a sceintific minded guy but just answer me please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Well, first of all, this anecdote is quite irrelevant, because it details something that allegedly happened a few hundred years ago, and because it could not possibly have happened, unlike the scenario I laid out in the above paragraph. Now, I don't really believe this happening is possible, firstly because it defies the laws of gravity and plain old common sense. Trees do not cut themselves down, with or without divine influence. Secondly, this supposedly happened in the Middle Ages (or not at all, being fictitious), a time far back when people were doing every possible thing to promote Christianity. The time span between then and now, and the circumstances make this very hard to verify. However, if there is a record of this in the Catholic Church's archives, well, you can never really tell if it's real or not...
Now, can you answer my questions? Igor the Lion(Roar!) 18:45, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


Were gold and silver invented or discovered? - Aidan, Age 8

Gold and Silver were discovered not invented.

These elements were discovered. See Gold and Silver for more information. Dismas|(talk) 15:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I think given the heading, Aidan was referring to the colour gold, or perhaps gold/silver paints. The elements and colours were discovered, but the paints were invented - or at least the methods for producing the gold leaf used in metallic paints or the pigments in Gold colour paints were. GeeJo (t) (c) 19:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Furthermore, it could mean "which was named after which", and in that case the colors were named after the elements, as it usually goes. ☢ Ҡieff 00:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

town names[edit]

why do many towns have the word hall in them?

Easy. Because there was a hall there. "Hall" in its older meaning could refer to any large building or a temple. In German "halle", Dutch "hal". (And there are indeed several German towns named simply "Halle"). --BluePlatypus 19:32, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Archeology iron-age Greece site of Sparta[edit]

I recently heard that a site near the village of Pellana(sp?), outside the modern city of Sparta has been identified as a likely site.Is this accurate? What if any field study is being conducted? Are there papers or news articles published?

Christmas Candle arches/Schwibbogen[edit]

Does anyone know the significance of the 7 candles on a candlearch or Schwibbogen

The candles themselves represent the guiding lights to a mine entrance, as a gesture of respect to the history of mining areas (See Striezelmarkt). The number 7 isnt really that important (though some see it to be lucky), you can find Schwibbogens with anything from 5 to 11 lights on the arch [41]. GeeJo (t) (c) 19:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Being polite in India[edit]

My husband is going to Patna, New Delhi and Calcutta. What are some ways to express his appreciation to his hosts and be a polite guest?

Regular politeness mostly suffices, I guess. In some homes, you have to take your shoes off after entering, especially if you plan to enter the kitchen. deeptrivia (talk) 20:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
My guess is that the question might be whether it would be ususal or unusual to present a gift to his hosts, and if usual, what sort of thing that should be. - Nunh-huh 21:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Usually stuff to eat, chocolates, sweets, etc (avoid wine), especially if there are children in the house. deeptrivia (talk) 21:11, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I've often heard that even small gifts that are uniquely from your home country are appreciated. Find out what religion the hosts are and learn a bit about what is polite in that religion. For ex. in Hindu households and temples it is considered impolite to point your feet towards someone or a religious item. Depending on how long he is going, it wouldn't be a bad idea to learn some basic greetings, as showing interest in their language is generally polite. You don't want to go to far, because it is generally obvious when you don't speak the language, and as long as you try people appreciate it. See List of common phrases in various languages for some greetings. If he learned nothing but how to pronounce namaste and assalām alaikum, that would help. There are plenty of free audio lessons on the web. - Taxman Talk 18:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

For Theologians and/or Christians[edit]

Hi,...I'm aware that acording to the scriptures, God casted Adam and Eve out of paradise because they wanted to KNOW, basicly.( I know,I'm not mentioning the snake and all, but I'm making a 'sumary') so...they wanted to eat from the tree of knowledge and they where casted out... but then... I'm also aware that theology says God wants us to be like him... now my question is, how do this two statements not contradict each other? thank you.--Cosmic girl 23:09, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

That's a heckuva question. Theologians of various sorts have argued for millennia about what exactly was going on with that whole "eating the fruit." I'll let someone who knows more about it provide the details.
The short answer, and the one you'd probably get if you asked a mainstream Protestant, would probably be about like this: It was a sin because God explicitly said not to do it. Doing what God says not to do is the definition of sin. As for God wanting humans to be like him, that means that God wants humans to be, in Jesus' words, "...perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). It's a moral injuction, not a command to be knowledgable or, for that matter, incorporeal, omnipresent, or named YHWH. --George 23:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I consider myself protestant; an "informed one" I guess you could say. I believe the problem you speak of was not that Adam an Eve wanted to KNOW as you say; it was because, as the parent said, they did what God told them not to. That was only on the surface, however. The real problem was that THEY (and all of us today, as well) wanted to determine what was right for them; they did not want God telling them. A pride issue. There wasn't anything wrong with the tree, and the tree didn't symbolize sex, it was simply wrong because God said so.--Electrosoccertux 22:44, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

haha! I wouldn't wanna be named YHWH, thanx! I meant... that a lot of theologians say that we should strive for perfection(see theosis) and hey! Adam and Eve where doing just that! sometimes... a little rebelion is good. and what did u mean by a heck of a question if it is what I think it is, thank you, I think it is a heck of a question too ;) . --Cosmic girl 23:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

You needn't search very far in the Bible for contradictions. Nelson Ricardo 00:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I know, but I just take those minor contradictions with a grain of salt...I only give importance to transcendent theological contradictions, the others just make me laugh.--Cosmic girl 00:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

This is one of the most powerful wisdom parables in the entire Bible. Nothing else we have preserved for 2500 years comes close to it for understanding of the human condition. We have a glimmer of the knowledge of right and wrong and with that comes the ability to sin and the awareness of our inability to live up to that given our finite lives and our biological nature. This is what makes us neither animal nor divine, but able to partake of both. All of Christianity derives from our knowledge of our mortality and our inability to achieve moral godliness by our own efforts. The story does not make sense to children or the shallow but if you are young you can spend the rest of your life thinking about it and I promise your understanding and appreciation of it will grow each decade. There are entire books of commmentary on Genesis and the interpretations of this story if you are curious. alteripse 01:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you:)--Cosmic girl 03:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

We could debate this forever, I know, but I believe that, rather than being neither human nor divine, we are actually both. We are spiritual beings having human experiences. JackofOz 00:48, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Why do you believe that? why can't we be just humans having the illusion of being spiritual just because of our biological thought processes? --Cosmic girl 15:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)