Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/July 2004

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Habemus Papam[edit]

Various sources differ on the appropriate form of the Latin sequence for announcing a new Pope. Unanimously, they begin "Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum: habemus Papam." Thereafter, however, they continue differently. (link removed) gives "Eminentissimum ac Reverendissimum Dominum, Dominum ... Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalam ... qui sibi nomen imposuit ..."; the WAV file (see link) referring to John Paul I's election confirms it. But for John Paul II, I've found "Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum. Habemus Papam, Carolum Wojtyla qui sibi nomen imposuit ..." more often (see [1], [2], [3], [4]) but I've also noted the alternative (see [5]). I would be much obliged if informed of which is correct. -- Emsworth (Talk)

== Justitia, Themis, Lady Justice ==kikikikikikikkiikiki


What does the sword, scales and blindfold of greek goddess Themis - Lady Justice represent?

Regards Stephen

For sure, I know that the blindfold means that justice is blind - everyone is treated equally under the law. I'm not sure about the sword and scales - probably the scales means that justice is balanced and suchness. Dysprosia 13:17, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

  • Off the top of my head, the scales represent the accurate weighing of the two sides of a dispute, the blindfold indicates she is blind to extraneous factors (like power differences), and the sword is the power to back up the decision and punish the guilty. Alteripse 13:21, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Thank you.
davidzuccaro 09:17, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC) (for Stephen)

Girl in Advert[edit]

There is an advert currently running on TV in the UK for Lux Shower Gel in which a girl morphs into Sarah Jessica Parker. Who is the other girl (who IMNSHO considerably outshines SJP but that's a different question :-)? --Phil | Talk 13:51, Jun 14, 2004 (UTC)

Not that I know her name, but is this [6] who you mean ? (maybe the photo will stimulate someone's, err, memory) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:04, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Not that this helps, but you're not the only one asking, and I'm not the only one asking why anyone would pay to turn into SJP: [7] -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:11, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes, that's her. While you're on a roll, how about the girl in the Spirito di Punto advert (who drives her sleeping boyfriend all over town, up and down stairs even, and he only wakes up when some steamy hunk offers her a coffee)? --Phil | Talk 14:35, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)

Stephanie March[edit]

Moved from Stephanie March by [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

I am looking for information about the female that played a lawyer before the one that is on the program now. Her name is Kelly Lynch and noticed her on the movie Curley Sue and wondered why the computer won't show her on this program or Elias Koteas (note--s/he mentioned Law and Order:Special Victims Unit in the edit summary)
Internet Movie Database shows Stephanie March started on Law and Order SVU in 2000. The only acress who left the series in 2000 or before was Leslie Hendrix [8]. There is no record of Kelly Lynch or Elias Koteas appearing there, even as guests. IMDB is very rarely wrong on these matters. DJ Clayworth 18:51, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Note: An anonymous user (Kirky) created an article asking this question. I've deleted the article and moved the question here.  – Jrdioko (Talk) 04:15, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Anyone know what the old Frisian (female) given name "Siebrje" means? Sorry about that. Oh, and apparently it's spelled "Siebrigje", I remembered it wrong. Kirky

Siebrigje has Germanic origins. "Sie" meant "victory" and "brig" derives from "burg", which meant "protection". Thus, the name roughly stands for "she who guarantees victory". (The "je" is a just a diminutive thing.) Alternative forms of the name, all female, are Siburg, Siberchje, Siberkje, Sibrechje and Sibrich(je).

I should point out the existence of a treacherously similar set of names: Sibrecht(je), Siberdina, Siberta, Sibertsje and Sibetsje. (There are also male forms.) In these, the second part means "shining", so that the names mean "shining as a result of victory".

In case you need a formal reference, I based the above on page 227 of "Woordenboek van voornamen" by J. van der Schaar, published by Het Spectrum in 1970. 18:31, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Does anyone know who invented reflexognosy, when, and what techniques reflexognosy uses? Thanks Elpenmaster

If you can be bothered to trawl through Google:Reflexognosy you're welcome to it: looks to me like yet another way to separate poor benighted people-in-pain from their ready cash (but what do I know? I'm just a poor benighted cynic-in-pain tired of being ripped off). --Phil | Talk 09:31, Jun 15, 2004 (UTC)

Answer: Reflexognosy was developed by Sandi Rogers, who is the owner of the National College of Traditional Medicine in Melbourne, Australia. She continues to develop the profession internationally. I'm currently a student at her college, studying Massage and I have no doubts as to the efficacy of this technique especially when combined with other forms of therapy. NCTM's website can be found at, where she offers a Diploma course.

To quote from that site: "Reflexognosy is the application of appropriate pressure to the feet and legs by the hands of a trained practitioner to bring about physiological and psychological change, stimulating subtle energies. Reflexognosy is a system of healthcare that focuses on the whole body." --JuxtaPozer 10:55, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

British Broadcasting Corporation[edit]

Does the BBC have a motto (say in Latin or otherwise)?

"Nation Shall Speak Peace Unto Nation" [9] -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:13, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's the UN motto isn't it? Mark Richards 15:33, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

A google for "bbc motto" finds numerous occurances of "nation shall speak peace unto nation", with no UN hits. A google for "UN motto" and "united nations motto" doesn't find anything worthwhile. Moreover, here's a picture of the crest with that motto, from the BBC's website [10]. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:52, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fascinating, I always thought that was written under the UN fig leaf log. Clearly I was halucinating... Mark Richards 22:08, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Why is snot green?[edit]

Why is snot green? -Anon

Only infected snot is green. I heard that this is because of white blood cells called Neutrophils which engulf the bacteria and digest them. One of the digestive enzymes is lactoferrin (the "ferrin" referes to iron. I.e. this enzyme is dependent on iron for it's activity. Now any chemistry teacher will tell you that iron compounds are usually green. theresa knott 11:26, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I heard it was the result of two bacteriae present in the snot; one is blue and the other yellow. I shit you not.--[[User:HamYoyo|HamYoyo|TALK]] 16:02, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

Bacteriae? That's a funny fake-learned plural! Turia Sediento 18:02, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Curry powder vs. Garam Massala[edit]

The article Curry claims, that curry powder, aka Massala powder, is a spice mixture invented by the British. My cookbook, however sais, that Garam Masala is a genuine Indish spice mixture and not the same as curry powder. So, who is right? Simon A. 12:34, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

As I understand it: There are loads of different garam masalas (trans. hot mixtures) and they vary from dish to dish and region to region. Masala can be a dry spice mixture or a sauce. The curry powder you see in the supermarket is a bastardised version originally pioneered by the Victorians to add an exotic flavour to the food they made back home and is now used by their descendants to perk up baked beans, cheese on toast and the rest of our proud, epicurean tradition. The British can also be directly blamed for Beef curry, some people's disconcerting habit of sticking sultanas and much of the fruit bowl for that matter, in an Indian dish and the Phal. So I suppose curry powder is a kind of masala and the British have to take responsibility for it. Real Garam masala was used in Indian cusine long before the Europeans showed up though. adamsan 23:10, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Can u help me with a translation?[edit]

I would like to add a motto in Latin to literature I am producing for my football (soccer) team. the motto I would like (in English)is:

We are working, we are beautiful, we are glorious

Can you provide the Latin? Happy for suggestions - perhaps the imperative (let us work, let us be beautiful, let us be glorious).

Thanks for any help you can give

Eamon Doyle

Odds are I'm butchering this, but..."Sumus laborantis, sumus pulchri, sumus magni" is "We are working, we are beautiful, we are glorious" (or close to it, anyway--my Latin vocab is only slightly better than my Latin grammar). Note that this construction only works if your team is all-male--otherwise, it would be "pulchra" and "magni" (neuter form). On the bright side, no matter how much I botched this, not a lot of people will be able to tell. I'd definitely get a second opinion before using this, however. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 13:26, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The problem is that (though it's not obvious in English) the first part of the motto is a verb and the second and third parts are adjective phrases. Latin would never use the verb "to be" and a present participle for "we are working": it would just use the present tense, "laboramus" ("we work"). Unfortunately this would be very odd in a list of three things, so you could alter the sense a bit and make it something like "pulchri gloriosique laboramus" ("beautiful and glorious, we work"), or alternatively you could use an adjective for the first part and have something like "diligentes, pulchri, gloriosi" ("hard-working, beautiful, glorious") (Latin would probably leave out the verbs there, as they can easily be understood). If the team consists entirely of male players or a mixture of male and female players, the words should be as above (in the masculine); only if it consists entirely of female players should they be in the feminine (either "pulchrae gloriosaeque laboramus" or "diligentes, pulchrae, gloriosae"). Proteus (Talk) 22:49, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
1) "We are working" is indeed a verb phrase, with are working consisting of an auxiliary verb plus a progressive participle. 2) and 3) The second two occurrences of are, the ones preceding adjectives, are not auxiliary verbs but copulas (aka linking verbs, link verbs), meaning that they link the subject of the sentence to subjective complements, phrases completing the meaning of the verb and mandated by its subcategorization. If we wanted to say "We are humans", then the noun would be considered a predicate nominative?a restatement of the subject and a complement to the copula. Because of the differences in the grammatical structure of the various independent clauses (which when strung together without coordinating conjunctions are the members of an asyndeton, by the way), the three are not parallel and therefore need some reworking in the Latin translation.
I'd just like to offer advice. Please rethink the motto. It stinks. In English at any rate. And even once it's in latin you'll still have to explain it to people. --bodnotbod 22:01, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)
The best Latin mottoes are terse - usually 3 words max. How about Labor Decor Gloria (Work, Beauty, Glory)? (...and don't let anyone try to tell you that means "you did a fantastic job repainting the lounge") -- Picapica 19:30, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

poetry contest?[edit]

Any chance of some more specifics on this one? Thanks! Mark Richards 22:10, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Specifics from you would be helpful....  ;) Try Poetry Scam Warnings for a start. Catherine | talk 16:06, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Tony Iommi[edit]

Does anybody know how to pronounce Tony Iommi's surname? Thanks in advance. --Auximines 07:49, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Eye—Owe—Me. HTH HAND --Phil | Talk 09:10, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)


This is to certify that Mr. John Doe (age 36) is suffering thyrotoxisis since 1997. Which is pathilogical proved. He want to take needful trteatment in your hspital. so plase help him aAnd now extra case of Dagmsed case of #both bone distal 1/3rd of Lt.forearm /c Thyrotoxisis.During the admition, Medical consultant say his surgery not done now until TFT is NWL.

Present history of patient

Tammer. Palpitation, wegiht lose, Appitite high,Both neek swelling. Differe thyroid swelling both lobe.B.P. 160/80 His pathology report as flows,

T3 2.8 (Normal rate 0.69 -2.02mg/dl, T4 18.9(normal rate 5-11.4)microg/dl TSH 0.6(normal rate 0.6-6.2)micro g/dl I refer my patient for some treatment in your hospital.

1) Complete patient evalutation. @) 1-131 update study. 3)possible 1-131 thyroid ablation. 4) Test for human thyroid stimulation immuneglobion. 5) Opimization of medical Therepy.

Thamks Dr.Papshupati Regmi Director B.P.K.C. Hospital. Nepal,Chetwan

I don't know where you think you are posting, but this is an encylopedia not a hospital. We don't treat people here. theresa knott 10:04, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
When will they learn? That pile of dead bodies out back is starting to smell. --bodnotbod 22:05, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)
Now now, I bet some of the best Wikipedians came here initially searching for some sort of therapy. --Fastfission 03:12, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The profile of the prime minister of trinidad and tobago Mr Arthur n r robinson[edit]

The profile of the prime minister of trinidad and tobago Mr Arthur n r Robinson

Wikipedia doesn't seem to have a page for him as per Robinson. Politics of Trinidad and Tobago can be a good starting point. Jay 10:55, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
We have the current Prime Minister as Patrick Manning - I will check to see if this is out of date. Secretlondon 19:28, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
ANR Robinson was Prime Minister from 19 December 1986 - 17 December 1991. We don't yet have an article on him - see List of Prime Ministers of Trinidad and Tobago Secretlondon 19:32, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I've made a very small biography - A.N.R. Robinson. Secretlondon 19:43, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"Tukong Musool" Spelling[edit]

I wish to write an article about the Korean martial art (I've recently written two linguistics articles, a field I know nothing about, and I think it's time to vary my ignorance) Tukong Musool, which is derived from Taekwondo. However, a Google search for the term comes up with 35 results, which, to me, means that I'm spelling it wrong. Does anybody know what is the correct spelling? -- Itai 14:52, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Li said "A man who googles for the wrong thing finds it". Only when you have lost your desire to find this will you find it. Or you could look here: [11], [12] -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:23, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
W.C. Fields said: "Madam, there's no such thing as a tough child - if you parboil them first for seven hours, they always come out tender." Nevermind that, however. You are wise and sagacious, Sensei (if we are all one, then so are Japan and Korea), and have managed to convince me that it may be advisable at the moment that I stay off areas of which I know absolutely nothing. <cue gong> I must say I was more than a little shocked when I saw some of the names of the martial arts were trademarked, which means that at least some of the masters got fed up with uncooked rice. (I think I cracked the system, though. As you'll notice, there are but a few component words, which are jumbled together to create the full name of the martial art. Thus, I am master of Han Sool, the Way of George Lucas.) <cue Far-Eastern Star Wars theme> theme I shall now abandon this unholy goal of mine, and settle instead for mastery of that new South Korean martial art, that of getting a home bandwidth connection thrice as big as the one used by Project ECHELON and using it all on MMORPGs. -- Itai 22:38, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The fact that it is trademarked should not stop us from writing an article about it (see Kleenex, SPAM). The mark needs to be treated slightly carefully, but that should do it. Mark Richards 20:54, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Brazilian Federal District[edit]

I cannot find details of the districts population or area on Wikipedia, or Google... Anyone got these to give me?--Oldak Quill 15:31, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Brasília's population is about 1.75m inhabitants according to [13]. -- Itai 16:16, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
According to it's even more - 2,051,146 (2000 census). Seems like Brazilian Federal District needs work, as that article should list the number... andy 19:23, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Actually, I'm not sure whether the BFD and Brasilia are the same thing. I know that the BFD was formed so that Brasilia can be founded - very much like the American District of Columbia, or the Australian Capital Territory - but it could be that it encompasses more than Brasilia alone. -- Itai 00:11, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Brasilia and BFD are the same thing. AlissonSellaro 22:03, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Transit of Mercury from Mars: camera resolution of rovers Spirit and Opportunity[edit]

On January 12 2005, there will be a transit of Mercury from Mars. If Spirit and Opportunity are still functional, they could observe it. Opportunity would be able to watch the first half of the transit from the start until local sunset, while Spirit would be able to watch the second half of the transit from local sunrise to the end.

The question is, what is the resolution of their cameras? Opportunity was able to photograph a transit of Mars's moon Deimos, with an angular diameter of 2', but Mercury's angular diameter would be only 6", or about 20 times smaller.

Does anyone have any contacts at JPL who might know if they're aware of the transit of Mercury, if there's any chance that Spirit and Opportunity might still be functional at that time, and if the Rover's cameras are capable of photographing it? -- Curps 18:20, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

This link indicates that the angular resolution of the cameras is 0.27 m/rad per pixel , which I presume is a milliradian. If that's correct, a pixel covers about 55", way larger than the figure you quote. --Robert Merkel 02:45, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Even if they can't resolve Mercury during the transit, they may be able to measure the drop in intensity for the obscured pixels. I guess it would be about a 1% reduction in intensity for an individual pixel. -- Solipsist 14:02, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)


China is showing signs of becoming the next superpower. Its economy doubles every 8 years, it has a huge trade surplus with the U.S.A. and if this trend continues it will replace the U.S.A. as the world's leading economic power in the next decades. If China becomes a superpower, will this create another cold war scenario? Will it be a peaceful coexistence? China has even send a man into space, clearly it wants to become the second superpower.

This is quite possible. However, I think politically, China is not entirely stable (granted, it's not as unstable as, say, Iran). →Raul654 18:49, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)
It's important to realize that the USSR was largely self sufficient - it did not rely on the US until quite late in its life. China and the US, however, economically rely on each other - inasmuch as I recall, America is the biggest market for Chinese goods. I'm not sure who would stand to benefit from a cold war. As for the EU, which you didn't mention, it too should be watched. While at the moment it seems to be stagnating, all member countries have too much to lose if its potential is not realized. Non of this is very encyclopedic, by the way. -- Itai 19:17, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
China has huge numbers on it's side, and may well become the world's largest economy within a short period of time. This is somewhat different to becoming a superpower, since that implies a wide-reaching influence with the rest of the world. Additionally, China's unprecedented growth may be limited to the short term. IMHO opinion, neither China nor the European Union will have both the motivation and ability to initiate a cold war with the US in the next few decades. akaDruid 14:13, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Bear in mind that the profit system in the United States, as well as worldwide, is increasingly inefficient and unattractive. It is increasingly based on a vast difference in wealth between the richest 1% and an impoverished majority of "working poor." Profit economics has proven itself to the onlooking world as the greatest producer not of goods or wealth but of homelessness, joblessness, inadequate medical aid and increasing malnitrition. So the idea of there ever being another cold war is quite ridiculous. America itself is rejecting profit-based economics even as China is experimenting with or flirting with profit-based economics in a delimited geographical area. The experiment, while producing wealth for some is also producing increasing poverty for many, and this has been noticed. It is very unlikely that any "communist vs. capitalist" standoff will ever occur in the world again. The very notion is restricted to a small minority of so-called radical conservatives in the United States to whom anything liberal, anything that has economic policies which put the needs of people ahead of profits for corporate owners and executives, must be "stamped out." To this conservative minority, a cold war mentality is the same as the salvation of their profits and so they are for it. But it is aberrant in world thought and unlikely to confront, in the future, a powerful China whose economic base is in the public ownership of industry and resources.

China will need someplace to market it's goods. The U.S. and the Euro are the only places that have enough money to buy China's goods. I disagree with the comments above. The free market is the only system that will allow countries to rise above their poverty. All these countries need is an education on the value of free trade, something that is not being taught here in the good old U.S. We have people graduating from high school and college that wouldn't know a free market from a fish market. China has a huge population that is increasingly more aware of what is possible from growth. What China doesn't have is raw materials. You ask why gas prices are going up? We are having to share the scarse oil reserves with an exploding Chinese demand that will cause the price to rise even higher than it is now. China will have to purchase all of the resources to build all of it's economy. There is increasing pressure from the Chinese population to get into the 21st century with it's cell phones, tvs and refrigerators. The number one thing these people have going for them is education. The more education the more they learn what is possible. China's population will soon demand a more democratic say about what is going to happen to themselves. That is what comes from having soo many people that are well educated. The more education the more freedom is demanded. A fee market economy is the best way to finance a free education.

Doric and Ionic Order[edit]

I'm looking for a high resolution digital image that matches (an exact match would be perfect) for the image on this Wikipedia page: Does Wikipedia license images for use in other sources? I'm desperate. This is for a book I'm working on and I can't find this image anywhere!

If you click on those images, the image description page states that they are in the public domain, so you could use the images there, without permission, if you wanted. However, if you want access to higher-resolution images, the Wikipedia doesn't keep those; everything that we have is public by the very nature of Wikipedia. You'll have to contact the user who uploaded the images to see if they have a higher-resolution version available. If you click on the image and bring up the image description page, you can find out the user (Liftarn) who uploaded the image. If you click on their name, you bring up their user page. You can then contact them by either leaving a message on their discussion page, or clicking on the "e-mail this user" link on their user page. Hope this helps. --Robert Merkel 02:28, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Note there's a book published by Dover, [14], The Architectural Plates from the Encyclopedie, which should have that illustration. Since the Encyclopedie is very much public domain, there would be no problem scanning it from that book. -- DrBob 02:36, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)
There's also a somewhat higher resolution copy of that plate here, but I doubt it's detailed enough for re-printing. -- DrBob 02:44, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Richard M Nixon's Funeral[edit]

I don't recall President Nixon being laid out at the capital rotunda in D.C. before his funeral at Yorba Linda.

Was this his choice or not?

I did a Google search, and it turns out this very question was discussed about 10 days ago in [15], according to which it was according to his and his family's choice. (See the link I provided for details.) -- Itai 23:56, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think that there was a worry from his family about the potential satirical amunition that his 'lying in state' might provide... Mark Richards 22:03, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Nixon was, literally, a lawbreaker, a criminal, when he left the presidency -- in disgrace. For his body to be in the capitol rotunda would have been a mockery.

The Nixon family published a memo about it. Nixon himself felt that Washington, DC was too hostile against him and that it was the "enemy's turf." Instead he was laid in state in California. He also didn't want his presidential library to be governed from Washington, DC. That is why his presidential library is one the only libraries that is run by a private corporation that the former president established. Gerald Farinas 16:23, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

articals on the body building compititions held in camden[edit]

which Camden ? I can see 15 of them in Camden. Jay 15:12, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Banana juice?[edit]

I know that you can't get banana juice, since squeezing bananas only makes them mushy, instead of producing juice, like most fruits. But I understand that recently there was a way discovered to have banana juice, that circumvented this problem, but I can't remember how they did it. Anybody know? Rhymeless 05:37, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

This article looks like it has found your answer, Rhymeless. The way they do it sounds quite efficient, something like 1mL of juice for every 2g of banana. DO'Neil 12:39, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

Neil, good material ! I've added the stuff in banana article in the 'Properties' section. Jay 15:12, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Unknown Christopher Walken movie[edit]

I need someone to help me figure out what movie I am talking about. I only saw the first 20 minutes of it, or so. It's set in modern times in a large American city. Christopher Walken plays an eccentric magnate. The opening shows him screwing a prostitute, and then he tries to throw her out without paying because that's how he gets his kicks. (This is where it gets fuzzy) I believe she robs him, so he sends someone to rob her and beat her up. (Again, this is all in the first 10-20 mintues) What movie am I talking about? →Raul654 07:38, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

Genealogy (moved from help desk)[edit]

I am a genealogist and normally assist italians and english descent persons seeking their family genealogy. I have recently been requested by a family in England to trace the family immigration to Chile and,specifically, Valpariaso where a child of english parents was born and the family appears to have remained in Chile on or about the 1850's. What links or databases can be accessed by computer,e-mail or snail mail?? Thank you. Peter Timber, Los Angeles.

  • Unfortunately in the majority world the only genealogy that tends to get done is by Western settlers and even then it only tends to be those that are descended from peerage, or by western descendants who no longer live there. However you may wish to try any of the following links for your research:

British Broadcasting Corporation[edit]

Does the BBC have a motto? B.T.Edwards

"Nation Shall Speak Peace Unto Nation" [16] -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:13, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Solar system's orientation in galaxy[edit]

Is the plane of our Solar System parallel to the plane of our galaxy? -- Heron 21:34, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Nope, it's inclined about 60°. If it was parallel, then the Milky Way would be aligned alone the ecliptic (which it isn't). -- DrBob 22:12, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Gay Football Players[edit]

Are there any gay football (that's - grits teeth - soccer) players? --bodnotbod 00:12, Jun 19, 2004 (UTC)

Justin Fashanu (but he's retired, I think) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:54, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Justin Fashanu sadly killed himself, partly as a result of the negative reaction he got from his colleagues and family after being 'outed' by The Sun. Although there are likely to be other gay footballers, his experience has meant that none have openly admitted it in the English game. adamsan 06:41, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about him. --bodnotbod 19:38, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)


What are the best Universities in the World, in terms of pure teaching and researching quality alone?

It depends on how you define "pure teaching." For example, "pure teaching" for me means "well-rounded" and free of dogmatic pressures. This is a hugely biased opinion but I'm going to mention it anyway. I think the Jesuits have come close to perfecting the institution of academia based on their ideals of liberal arts as a base, complemented with character, service and leadership education. They also were the first to champion free-thought education, allowing students to wander from philosophy to philosophy, religious value to religious value, to allow the student to come up with his or her own conclusions about a particular issue without setting limits as defined by the Jesuits' Catholicism.
If you're talking about "pure teaching" as in teaching strictly from facts without discernment (and minimal discussion of challenges to theories), then what you're looking for doesn't exist today, I think.
Pure researching quality? Depends on what subject. Universities tend to specialize in certain areas of research. Major academic journals and the media claim that University of Hawaii has the most advanced marine biological research methods of exquisite quality. Just last year, I remember a story that CNN did about the University of Hawaii making strides in challenging Harvard Medical for superior medical research quality. University of Chicago is thought to be the best in anthropology, archaeology and sociology. Gerald Farinas 16:37, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I remember a reference to some list like "the top 100 universities" during discussion about reduced funding of Australian universities. Google finds 1880 sites with that phrase, but they're mostly talking about more specialised or localised criteria. -- Mark Hurd 17:51, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The question as posed is pretty much impossible to answer meaningfully. Many comparative lists are published, the ones I am familiar with are annual lists of universities in the US and UK. They are rated by research and by teaching, and possibly by other things too, but the criteria vary between lists. If your question is part of a 'where should I study' type of enquiry, I would say that you should try to articulate more clearly what you want. If your question is one of general interest, I would say that more clearly articulating what you mean by 'best' both in teaching and in research. Mark Richards 15:44, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Even within a broad field, the strength of a university can vary greatly based on the particular interests and skills of its staff. In the IT department of my university, the software testing group, of which I am a part, is probably the best in Australia in this area. The molecular simulation people are also apparently very good. Down the road at the University of Melbourne, they have some excellent groups working on data compression and logic programming, where we don't have any specialist expertise.

Secondly, it's my experience that quality research and quality teaching are not necessarily all that well correlated. Many of the most brilliant researchers are very average teachers. They regard it as a drain on their time to be minimised, have no clue about the actual capabilities and learning process of the average student, and often aren't up with the practice of the discipline outside their own field of research. Another thing to consider is that there are far more factors to consider than just teaching quality when selecting a place to study. The location, costs, the academic and social culture; all of these are very important.

Finally, if this is for the purposes of selecting a university for your own or your child's education, don't get too hung up on finding the "perfect" university. In most large Western countries, there are many universities (heck, in the United States, there are probably hundreds) where an enthusiastic student can get a good education. --Robert Merkel

Yeah, it's a very individual thing, like asking who is your perfect spouse, there are things that people might be able to point in the direction of in terms of identifying compatability, and things to avoid, but no right answers. Mark Richards 07:19, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
On another forum somebody posted this ranking list. Can't vouch for it in any way, but it's relevant to this thread: [17] --bodnotbod 14:25, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)

Pot Noodle Adverts.[edit]

Is there an Internet archive or depository for Pot Noodles T.V. Adverts for both the United States and the United Kingdom?

Hehe. This might be a silly question, but what is Pot Noodles? Gerald Farinas 16:41, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Pot noodles sounds like slang for ramen.Rhymeless 02:37, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The nearest US equivalent is maybe Nissin Cup Noodle, although Pot Noodle has fewer recognisable ingredients and (even) more chemistry. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:30, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Pot Noodles are a brand name for an instant noodle product. Mark Richards 15:46, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Here's the UK ads. It's dirty and you want it! Do they even have Pot Noodle in the US? Under the same product name? --bodnotbod 19:42, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)

trying to find out how to translate a web article into english from albanian[edit]

i am having no luck trying to get this translated. it is this web article i have been looking for my maiden name and stumbled upon it in this article.,and am hoping you can help, thank you!!!

Ruth Ksilander Diercks
From the looks of the article, I'm pretty sure you meant "from Albanian into English." You could try asking the folks at the Albanian Wikipedia (though having enough skill to pose the question there implies having enough skill to translate the web article.) I don't know enough Albanian to help you further. --Ardonik 00:19, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

Orwell's list?[edit]

Is there an online version of Orwell's list of crypto-communists? A google search just brings up reviews of it, not the actual list itself.

It would be very useful for this article to see his views on his peers. I have only been able to see a review of his list at , not the list itself.

Naelphin 06:15, 2004 Jun 20 (UTC)

"Steinberg Clean" Programme[edit]

Have you used the Steinberg Clean programme?

I have been told that it does a great job making scratchy vinyl records sound as good as CDs but although I follow the instructions everything still sounds the same. The firm I bought the programme off say that many people have bought this programme and they have had great success with it. They want to charge me US$40 an hour for instruction! That will most probably work out more than double the cost of the programme.

Hopefully there is someone who lives near to me, biut if not, are we able to work something out online?

                   Ross Lambourn
                   New Zealand
I doubt that it gets old recordings as good as CDs, but it should be able to remove most of the clicks, scratches and surface noise. Have you tried asking for advice on the forums at Sound on Sound magazine? You will probably find a more focussed audience there. You can also find there original review of Clean at [18], which might give some clues about what to expect. -- Solipsist 13:04, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

lava lamps[edit]

Does anybody know if it's possible to fix a lava lamp when it's wearing out? This one is about 8 years old, and it seems like it no longer heats up as quickly as it used to, taking, by my count, about 10 hours before I see any independent movement inside. I've checekd and made sure that the light bulb I'm using conforms with that recommended by the instructions. Rhymeless 14:32, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Is the light bulb new? One issue might be that light bulbs have become more efficient in recent years, giving out more light and less heat. When you say that the one you are using conforms to the recommendations, what are they? You might want to try using either an older bulb, or a higher power one. Obviously, do that at your own risk etc. Mark Richards 15:50, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It may well be the canister of gloop you need to change. I've got a popular brand of lava lamp and they sell the lava bits separately. I've noticed a deterioration in performance of mine over time - the lava seems to age somehow. --bodnotbod 00:03, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

language learning[edit]

sir, i need to learn english through malayalam. do u have any programme free of cost for me to download in my system and learn english. kindly let me know. bye pradeep

No, the Wikipedia is a volunteer-run encyclopedia. It does not offer any form of English instruction. Maybe some of the material on this directory page may be of help.--Robert Merkel 03:45, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

cello diagram[edit]

Battle of the Alte Veste[edit]

Can somebody give me a clue as to where to look for information about the Battle of the Alte Veste, fought during the Thirty Years' War? RickK 21:58, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)

escalator psychology[edit]

I've started to notice that people almost invariably walk down the last few steps of an escalator, despite having let the machine do the work for the rest of the descent. Any psychological terms for this kind of 'the end is in sight' behaviour? --Chopchopwhitey 23:35, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It's the mentality of "I must rush, or I'll not get there in time. I believe rushing for the last 5 steps will save me 10 minutes of my life". If I rush, I walk the whole way. If I'm in a lazy day, I never walk any steps at all. People are just impatient. And of course, children are always in fear of got stuck in the escalator, and people always told them to jump off the last few steps really fast. That education carries on I guess. You don't wanna get rolled under the escalator into a blood trail. --Menchi 00:58, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I was never told to jump off the last few steps, but I walk the last 4 anyway. My theory is that you need to be at escalator speed at the end (to avoid falling over), so you need the last few steps for acceleration. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 01:16, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe it's not so much speed, as simply the fact that you're walking. I've certainly experienced on the deck of a rolling ship that it seems to be easier to keep my balance when walking (carefully) than when standing still. Perhaps whichever hind brain ganglion it is that takes care of balance has a "walk mode / stand mode" flipflop, and it isn't so good at handling external pushes when one is in stand mode. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:25, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Another escalator-related phenomenon of interest that I've noticed is how I nearly fall over when stepping on to an escalator that isn't moving. How come? (And it isn't alcohol-related.) I assume the subconscious must make some kind of automatic speed adjustments when we step onto an escalator, and when the escalator is out of order the adjustments are unnecessary and cause us to lose our balance slightly. I find it fascinating that my brain must be making all these adjustments without me even having to pay attention. Any names for this kind of automatic compensation? Any other examples? --Chopchopwhitey 04:54, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Just sneaking this in here...The automatic adjustments I guess are part of your prioperception which we appear not to have an article on. There's a guy, I think, in the fantastic book The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat who has lost his prioperception. This means that in order to walk he has to look at his legs and feet all the time, because he does not have that natural sense of where they are in space. Is his foot high enough to get up the kerb? Or does he need to lift it higher? He doesn't know unless he looks. Terrible way to live, most draining. --bodnotbod 00:10, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)
chocolateboy 01:10, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Its an interesting observation. I would primarily go with the 'getting up speed' theory. It is certainly possible to get off an escalator by waiting to the last moment and stepping off, but it takes more active thought and you usually end up doing a small hop for the first step. There could also be elements of
  • compensating for very slight motion discomfort as the escalator rounds out
  • reacting to the person in front of you starting to move as they get off the escalator
So one thing to check is exactly when people start moving (about 1 step before round out?) and whether this changes if there are people in front of them.
Also of interest (if you have never tried it) is making a small jump when a fast lift (elevator) starts to slow down to stop at a floor. If the lift is going up, you will suddenly feel much lighter, and if its going down you feel that someone has turned the gravity up. I suspect that Einstein liked this game. -- Solipsist 10:30, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I've started to notice that people almost invariably walk down the last few steps of an escalator [ ... ] Any psychological terms for this kind of 'the end is in sight' behaviour?
"escatology" [19] [20]
chocolateboy 03:01, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Because when you make contact with the ground, zooming along with the combined momentum of your walking and the escalator is pretty darn cool. :) --NeuronExMachina 04:49, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Gateway screens for Web sites[edit]

I've noticed that some Web sites (thankfully, not many)foist upon the user what may be called gateway screens. The ones I have in mind are those that carry no links except one to another page on the site. These are analogous to splash screens for programs, in that you can't do anything with them--they're just another screen to get past. But they're a considerably bigger annoyance than programs' splash screens, in that (a) while the programs' screens serve a promotional purpose for the program or publisher, that doesn't seem to make much sense for a Web site, since the first page of *any* Web site would be expected to prominently identify the site, and (b) the programs' splash screens will remove themselves almost instantly, while the Web sites' gateway screens will typically hang around until the user finds and uses a link to proceed to a functioning page on the site.

My question is:

What possible reason can Web site developers have for making us users wade through these opening screens before we can use the site?

Sometimes it seems to be that the designer has some fancy graphic or design idea that they can't think where else to work into the site. Or perhaps they believe some users will find a nice-looking and fairly simple splash page more of a draw to a site than an introductory page filled with lots of that annoying content you sometimes have to read.
One analogy that I can think of is how sometimes in bookstores I'll pick a book off the shelf simply because it has a nicely designed cover, with lots of bright and fancy colours and a lovely font, and then once I've been reeled in by the peacock feathers of the marketing department I'll actually read what the back has to say about the book itself. --Chopchopwhitey 05:12, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I suspect there are two reasons. One comes from CD-ROM developers who migrated to web site design. This carries the view that this web site is a self contained 'garden of delight', walled off from the rest of the internet and the opening page is the entrance to the site, or the 'cover' as Chopchopwhitey says.
The other reason would be that a web site developer usually has to present the finished site (or working drafts) to the client. This tends to involve sitting in a meeting room with a laptop and the web site on the local hard drive, because you can't guarantee an internet connection during the presentation. The opening page is then on display for much of the preamble to the presentation, so it helps if it looks good and is a little dynamic because that creates a good impression with the client no matter how bad the rest of the site is.
Of course both of these approaches rather miss the point of the internet and irritate genuine users. Perhaps there is an argument for the former with flash dominated sites which promote a band or a film. -- Solipsist 10:18, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I don't mind a simple, fast loading, striking graphic as a "cover". It's bloody flash animations that get me. I feel that as an expectation increases that the average user might have broadband this sort of heavy content is liable to increase. Sigh. --bodnotbod 23:43, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

permutations of a digital clock[edit]

My combinatorics isn't up to much, so perhaps someone could help me figure out how many permutations there are of both a 12-hour and a 24-hour digital clock face (excluding seconds)?

I'm not sure what you are asking, if you are talking about legit times. there are 60 mins in an hour and 12 ( 0r 24) possible hours . Just multiply the two times together. If you are talking about all possible times even the ones the clock will never actually show e.g 68:92 there are four digits - that means 9999 possible numbers that could be shown. theresa knott 10:46, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Doh! Of course. I did mean legitimate times, but for some reason had convinced myself it would be far more complicated than the obvious solution. Thanks! --Chopchopwhitey 11:11, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

(Also of use would be any mathematical arguments as to why my repeated viewings of the time 12:34 over the past view weeks when glancing at the clock isn't lucky/proof of a higher being in any way, and is just a strange coincidence to do with what hours I keep.) --Chopchopwhitey 09:15, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Is your clock brand new? Sometimes clock manufacturers place a strip of plastic over the face with a sample time on it. Remove this, put some batteries in and turn the clock on ;-) theresa knott 10:46, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
repeated viewings of the time 12:34 - This one is usually down to psychology. You are probably subconciously glacing at the clock quite frequently, but only really stop and notice when you see combinations of digits that you regard as interesting. There are not so many interesting patterns of numbers on a digital clock - 11:11, 12:34, 00:00, 01:23, 22:22 (possibly 12:21). Only the first two occur at times when you are at work and clock watching and arguably 12:34 is the best combinations of the lot. Also you may be starting to feel hungry at around 12:30 and start glancing at the clock more around that time.
Similar arguments can be used to explain what many people consider coicidences, especially I was just thinking about them and then they phoned. In practice you are thinking about many different people all the time and you are also receiving many telephone calls. But you don't remember the particular occaision when you were thinking about John when Mary phoned.
You could also astound your friends in a reverse way. "Isn't it odd. Whenever I think about my mother she never phones for the duration of my musings.  ;o) --bodnotbod 00:16, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

Lottery probability[edit]

I once tried to convince someone that in picking numbers for the English National Lottery, they might as well just pick 1,2,3,4,5 and 6, as probabilistically those numbers have as much chance of coming up as any other set of 6 numbers.

They of course refuted this as being ludicrous, and asked why then did there, in general, seem to be a fairly even spread of numbers each week (e.g. 3, 10, 12, 23, 33, 42, which for some reason looks a little more reasonable).

I know there's a reason but can't for the life of me figure it out mathematically. Why is it? --Chopchopwhitey 09:35, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I suppose it's entropy. 3,10,12,23,33,42, is a highly unlikely possiblity of being a winning combination! but it looks like any old random set of numbers, so we can stick it in our "random looking set of numbers" pot, along with 22,23,34,38,40,49 and 1,7,9,33,46,48 and so on. 1,2,3,4,5,6, is just as unlikely as all the others, be we stick it in a different pot based on what we think is a random looking set of numbers.

Incidentally, even though 1 through 6 is just as unlikely as every other combination, you should still avoid it! This is because people have a habit of picking this combination, so if it should come up you are more likely to have to share your winnings. The same goes for the low numbers, (<12) people go for bithdays and anniversaries. But these are not random, they will only have numbers <31 and are likely to have numbers <12. By going for high numbers you will ensure that you don't have to share your dosh with a birthday choosing punter. theresa knott 11:04, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I doubt I can remember my Combinations and permutations correctly, but I think the reason is; a ball can only be selected once, so the chance of each subsequent ball falling into the same decade is reduced as the decade gets filled up.
For the UK Loto, you have to select 6 numbers from a range of 49. So the total number of combinations is C(49,6) = 49! / (6! * (49-6)!) = 13,983,816 or a probability of about 14 million to one that your numbers will come up.
The number of possible combinations of six numbers in the first decade is C(10,6) = 210. Or about 13000 times less likely than if you had thought you could divide the 14 million combinations between the five decades.
You would have said Wow! if the all the balls had fallen in any one decade, but the probability of that happening is approx (5 * 210) / 14,000,000 or about one in 13,000. If the lottery has been going on for ten years with twice weekly draws, there have been about 1000 games so the odds are 13:1 that we would have seen this happen. (There must be a small complication, because we would count 10 in both the first and the second decade).
You are right that (1 2 3 4 5 6) is as likely to come up as any other combination to help highlight how unlikely you are to win, but it is not good advice to choose numbers from the first two decades. A lot of people select their 'lucky' numbers based on significant dates, so most people favour the lower numbers. As such, if you did win the jackpot it is more likely that several other people would win at the same time and you would have to split the prize. Conversely, you might be better off select runs of consecutive numbers because no one believes they can come up, on the other hand you may have to split the prize with a group of mathematicians. -- Solipsist 11:12, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Better to split with mathematicians then some 'birthday choosing punter' Ilyanep 14:26, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'm coming in late on this discussion again. Trying to put it in another plain-language mathematics description rather than formulas as to why it looks as if there is a better chance of getting spread-out numbers: If there are 49 numbers, then there are only exactly 44 sequences of numbers that will give you 6 in a row (1 thru 6, 2 thru 7, etc.). Meanwhile, there are thousands of combinations where the numbers are, say, at least 5 numbers apart from each other. So it's true to say that there will be more draws where the numbers are separated by, say, at least 5 values (1,6,11,16,21,26; 1,6,11,16,21,27; etc.) than there will be draws where there is a set of numbers in sequence. HOWEVER, that's comparing apples and oranges--that's asking whether the odds of getting a specific set of numbers is less likely than getting some random set of numbers. Well, yes, of course it is. However, saying that any one *specific* set of numbers (e.g., 1,8,16,21,27,40 and no other possibility) is more likely than getting any other *specific* set of numbers (e.g., 1,2,3,4,5,6) is just wrong-- we're talking about a specific set of 6 digits in either case, for which the odds will always be 14 million or so to 1, no matter what they look like. The issue is clouded by people's perception that the numbers themselves have something to do with it. They don't. What if the balls were labeled with 49 different icons, to which no order could be implied? It would be clear that the odds of getting any specific set of 6 icons is exactly the same as getting any other specific set of 6. Hope that helps. (If you want to browse thru the last 200 California lotto numbers, see [21].)Elf | Talk 02:17, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Euglena gracilis as a prot5ozoan ?[edit]

Why were they classified in this catogory? plz email me with the answer,or

You might want to check out Pr0t0504n, which explains the criteria for clasification. Mark Richards 17:53, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Why are we using Leet to write protozoan?
I believe it's Mark having fun with the fact that luckygirl2 accidentally hit the 5 key while typing protozoan. Jwrosenzweig 20:39, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. ;) Mark Richards 17:08, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fire Walking[edit]

What's the deal with Fire Walking and people who walk on hot coals?

Hmm, not the best standup routine i've ever heard, but here's your answer anyway: - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:39, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

From what i heard anyone can do it(although im not saying you should try it). All you need to do is keep the coal under 1000'C and walk briskly. Then your feet won't get hot enough to be painful. 22:15, jun 29, 2004

Literary Technique[edit]

What is it called when an author or screenwriter writes themself into the script as a character? Examples are Borges in The Book of Sand, Paul Auster in The New York Trilogy and Charlie Kaufman in Adaptation (movie). It seems like there would be some literary or cinematic term for this. Anyone have suggestions? - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:28, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

Is this something to do with breaking the fourth wall? Mark Richards 14:15, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I always thought that the fourth wall was more about a character acknowledging that they were in a play... which doesn't necessarily mean that it's the author. The concepts are definitely inter-related though. If there's no term for the concept, I might as well just call it self-reference. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 14:50, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)
It's not what you're looking for exactly, but the concept of "author surrogate" is moderately close -- an author surrogate is a character who embodies the thoughts and opinions of the author. Jwrosenzweig 17:34, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I don't know what it's called either, but Kurt Vonnegut uses it very well in Slaughterhouse Five. moink 17:38, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It's decades since I read Slaughterhouse Five, but as I remember it the material there about Vonnegut himself is something very close to non-fiction: he was, indeed, a POW in Dresden during the firebombing. I don't know the Paul Auster work in question, but both Borges and Charlie Kaufman use far more clearly fictional characters who are on some level supposed to be themselves. That is, the events described as happening to them in their stories did no happen in their real lives. -- Jmabel 21:18, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, he was where he said he was, etc. But rest of the story and the character who encounters him a few times are fictional. Not exactly sure if this particular literary technique could even have a name, since it's so rare.moink 22:24, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Whoever knows it please add it to the narrator article. Jay 18:11, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Argh this is driving me crazy. Particularly, Paul Auster's character in the new york trilogy isn't even the narrator. The narrator is looking for a fictional "Paul Auster" and mistakenly looks up the actual author, and visits him in his brownstone in manhattan. It's quite bizarre... Perhaps 'author surrogate' is as close as I'm going to get here. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:32, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)

Autobiography? Mark Richards 22:31, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

When a novel has fictional characters who correspond to real people then it's a roman à clef. When a narrator appears to embody the character and opinions of the author, that's an authorial voice. In fan fiction, a character who represents the author for the purpose of wish fulfilment is a Mary Sue. But there seems to be no widely-used term for this. "Author surrogate" doesn't sound right to me: the character is a representation of the author, not a surrogate for them.

So I suggest the new word autagonist (from Greek autos, self, and agōnistēs, actor). Gdr 13:44, 2004 Jun 23 (UTC)

Greek agônistês meaning "actor" comes from agonis-, the stem of agonizesthai, "to act" (from agôn, "struggle, contest", + -izesthai, a verb combining form corresponding to English -ize, having the stem -is- in common with -izein, and related to -izein > Latin -izâre > French -iser > English -ize), plus the agentive suffix -tês also found in the English agentive combining form -ist (from Greek -is-tês). --Gelu Ignisque

What is it called when an author or screenwriter writes themself into the script as a character?
chocolateboy 03:08, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cold War[edit]

Where did the Cold War get its name?

  • According to Cold War, "The term was first used by the American financier and presidential adviser Bernard Baruch during a congressional debate in 1947." Cheers, Kingturtle 01:32, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
    • I think what the chap means is why did they use the name "Cold War", rather than when the appellation was given to it. The name was a description of the relations between the USSR and the USA: icy, but not red hot warfare. Hope that answers your question. DO'Neil 11:45, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)

Identify these items[edit]

A friend of mine asked the following question, and now I'm really curious. moink 01:48, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

We're moving, so we're packing. I find, in one of the cups on the tea cup shelf, some odd little items. I remember putting them there when I lived across the hall. I remember knowing that they were when we moved over here, thinking, when I found them then, "Oh, yeah, these things. I should keep these, just in case." I remember not knowing what they were when I first saw them, when they came with a new product I'd bought. There was no explanation given. J and I both stared at them strangely and then, like a flash, it dawned on me what they were for.
But now it's gone. Completely gone from my head what these little things are, what they're meant for, and what product they came with in the first place. Photo can be found at [22].
ps: there was also a washer in the cup with them, which may or may not have anything to do with them.
pps: I have the weird feeling that they were for threading something through something ...
What they look like is some lengths of PTFE (Teflon) tape, wound around bits of plastic straw. PTFE tape is usually wrapped around threads of pipework (before tightening a joint), to make a better seal. Something left over from plumbing in a washing machine, maybe? -- DrBob 15:54, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Thanks! I think that's exactly what they are. She says that yes, it's slippery, and they may well have come with her showerhead attachment. And she's never used it, and her showerhead leaks. moink 17:32, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Can I also suggest you buy a moisturiser for your hands? --bodnotbod 23:49, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)
Agreed Ilyanep (Talk) 02:57, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Continuing offtopic: I moved recently, and found that my hands became much drier than normal during the pre-move time, while I was packing. In my case, I was folding many boxes by hand, so I assumed that the cause was prolonged contact with the abrasive, dry cardboard.Lisa Paul 22:34, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"Oh, yeah, these things. I should keep these, just in case." [ ... ] and then, like a flash, it dawned on me what they were for.
chocolateboy 03:14, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Ultimate Goals of the Rote Armee Fraktion[edit]

What exactly was the ultimate aim of the Rote Armee Fraktion (aka the Baader-Meinhof Gang or the Red Army Faction)? Did they seek unificiation of Germany under East Germany's terms?

Or did they want to take over the West German government and set up a parallel communist German state?

If anyone knows, it'd be very helpful. DO'Neil 04:15, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)

You could try asking this guy, who's writing a book about them. From reading the introductory chapter of his book, you get the impression that the people behind the RAF hadn't thought that far ahead. --Robert Merkel 02:44, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Time zone?[edit]

What is the time zone of Texarkana, Texas? And does anyone else think that articles about cities should include time zones, so that people like me can find it? moink 22:26, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, ok, the background to this is that Texas actually straddles two time zones, most of it is in Central Time Zone, with a small western part in Mountain Time Zone. I can't find articles for those, but they must be there somewhere, so the question is where is Texarkana. Hang on. 22:36, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Nevermind, I eventually found it in the Texas article. It's in the Central time zone. moink 22:35, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Too slow... Never mind. Still - we should include the time zones! Mark Richards 22:36, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ah, all the time zone names redirect to Time zone. Is there anything to say about each one I wonder? List of places in the Central Time Zone anyone? ;) Mark Richards 22:39, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Mark. Actually, the info that it straddled two zones and what they were would have been enough, since Texarkana is at the very East edge of the state, on the border with Arkansas. moink 22:42, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Interesting that it spans two though - the western part is very small. I wonder why it does this? Mark Richards 22:44, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Usually when small segments of states/provinces are in a different time zone from the rest, it's because that segment is economically attached to a city in another state/province. So it's quite possible that there are significant numbers of people who live in West Texas and work in, err, whatever state is West of Texas. moink 17:35, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
New Mexico. :-) Jwrosenzweig 18:02, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Vocabulary help[edit]

moved from main page talk

I'm looking for a word to descibe two situations:

1) When a plane is accelerating for take off, it reaches a point of 'no return'. That is, regardless of what warnings may be displayed, the plane must take off, as there is not enough run way left over to come to a safe stop. Does anyone know if there is a word to describe this threshold when the 'point of no return' is reached/exceeded?

2) When mixing two groups, often an instructor will draw two cricles side by side — though each circle will partially overlap the other. This overlap provides an area where the two groups come together. Does anyone know if there is a word to describe this overlap?

The intersection? -- Kaihsu 09:45, 2004 Jun 23 (UTC)
The diagram itself is called a Venn diagram or an Euler diagram. The first is to show relationships, the second is to diagram set theory. In either case, the "intersection" would probably be the appropriate term. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:03, Jun 23, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. You may respond directly to:

Hi. We don't usually reply to e-mail addresses, but on the page itself. That way we share knowledge. — Chameleon 08:38, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

On Q 1), I don't think it is really a point so much as a velocity. I don't fly powered planes, but I think the sequence during take off for a fixed wing powered aircraft is something like;

  • Initial ground roll - full throttle, maximum acceleration
  • V1 - The take off decision velocity. Before V1 you can shut down all engines and stop safely within the remaining length of the runway. After V1, you should proceed with the take off even if you lose one engine. I suspect you don't continue under any failure condition, you would still abort if you lost all engines (you won't reach VR) or you lose control to the elevator (you won't be able to rotate), however you would expect to crash off the end of the runway.
  • VR - Rotation velocity. The point at which you pull back to lift the nose and begin to leave the ground.
  • V2 - Is the safe take off speed or initial climb speed. The point at which you start the optimal climb properly. A very heavy aircraft might lift off the ground and fly parallel in ground effect for quite a while, still accelerating until it reaches V2 and can start to climb safely.

V1 is probably the term you want. All of these values have to be calculated before each flight. They depend on the type of plane, its loading, and the environmental conditions (rain on the wings etc). Later in the flight there is also the Point of no return when the plane no longer has enough fuel to return the original airfield, usually a little over halfway through the flight for a commercial jet. -- Solipsist 11:57, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I've just found that there is also a less common term, called the Accelerate-stop distance, which is something like a point on the runway at which you can stop safely. See Section 25.109. -- Solipsist 12:19, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I believe "accelerate-stop distance" is the correct term. The speed V1 mentioned above is also called "decision speed" as it is the speed at which the decision in case of an engine failure changes from "abort takeoff" to "complete takeoff anyway." Interesting factoid: During the takeoff run of a commercial airliner, it is the captain's job to fly the plane. It is the co-pilot's job to watch the airspeed indicator and announce this speed, V1 or the decision speed. The captain then switches his mind from being prepared to shut off the engines and abort the takeoff to being prepared to complete a takeoff with an engine failure. moink 17:25, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

star on England football uniform in Euro 2004[edit]

During Euro 2004, the England national football team's uniform has a yellow 5-pointed star in front, under the team coat-of-arms. What does this mean? A championship they have won? Or just decorative? -- Kaihsu 09:43, 2004 Jun 23 (UTC)

It shows they have won 1 major football tournament (the 1966 World Cup Final). It is not unique to England, several other countries have followed this trend recently, although there is not a standard. It was started by Brazil as a celebration of the fact that they have won more World Cups than any other nation1. Some countries include regional tournament wins such as the UEFA European Championship or the African Nations Cup in their star count. akaDruid 10:30, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I thought the stars were exclusively for World Cup wins. Anyway, observant TV viewers will notice that France also has one star, Germany has three, and Brazil has five. -- Arwel 22:35, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
There are mostly used for World Cup wins. I heard a commentator say recently that at least one country has stars to represent UEFA wins too but unfortunately I don't remember which country. Perhaps someone else can help? akaDruid
Frank Skinner and David Baddiel's Fantasy Football said that the common usage is for World Cup wins but pointed out that a couple of teams had done their own thing, giving the impression of enhanced status compared to reality. I don't remember who the naughty teams are. --bodnotbod 23:53, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)
Indeed, the star is an unofficial (as far as I am aware) way of indicating world cup wins. The Danes I believe have a star on their shirt in recognition of their shock win at Euro 1992 (which they only qualified for as a result of Yugoslavia's disqualification), as do some African nations. Seeing as it is not an official practice, it is debateable whether or no it is "naughty" (as an England fan I would say it is though :)). I believe England have only recently introduced (or re-introduced) the star on their away (but not home) shirt above the three lions. Ed g2s 16:57, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)


I'm writing a book, Exiles Are Assets. Its aim is to show that exiles and refugees are good for their host countries. I wish to include information about Huguenots who fled from France to England. May I quote from your material?

The short answer is 'yes', but doing so may place certain obligations on you depending on how you use the material. For more information, see Wikipedia:Copyrights, and Wikipedia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License. Mark Richards 17:09, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
You can quote short extracts from Wikipedia as you would from any other source, following the rules of fair use in the jurisdiction where you plan to publish (see Wikipedia:Copyrights). See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia for advice on how to cite your Wikipedia source. If your quotations are so big that they can't be justified as fair use, or if you derive sections of your book from Wikipedia material, then your book is a derived work and you must license it under the GNU Free Documentation License (this doesn't mean you can't also publish it conventionally, but some publishers might be unhappy that they don't own the copyright). Gdr 17:15, 2004 Jun 23 (UTC)


Shouldn't Denmark+Greenland+Faroe be the world's 14th largest country(+dependancy) totalling up 2,210,580 km2? Nichalp 20:22, Jun 23, 2004 (UTC)

  • Under the 1979 law establishing Greenland and the Faroes as autonomous regions, the two dependencies are technically governing territories of their own. The only reason they are considered dependencies is because they share the same Foreign Ministry, foreign affairs apparati and policies. To consolidate the territories as one super-state is technically considered an attempt to usurp the self-governing authorities' powers, something the Danish wouldn't want to do. --Gerald Farinas 00:37, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Adoption - District Court[edit]

Adoption - District CourtI am looking for any references on the court system in Olawa. My wife and I are adopting twin boys from the region and have experienced significant challenges. Any information on the district court system located in Olawa would be helpful.

Thank You for your assistance.

Jeff Cox

Jeff, my father used to work for Mercer, and my sister currently does -- small world, I guess. :-) I take it you are referring to Olawa, Poland? I'm afraid I can't help you. If you leave a note on User:Ausir's talk page (he's the only editor I can think of around here who is Polish, though I'm sure there are more), perhaps he can help with some ideas. Good luck! Jwrosenzweig 16:26, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Ah, also User:Przepla wouild be a good choice -- his talk page is here. Jwrosenzweig 16:28, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

How long the Black Sea been called the Black Sea?[edit]

Answer: according to Black Sea, "The name (initially Pontus Euxinus) was coined by the Ancient Greek navigators, because of the unusual dark colour, compared with the Mediterranean Sea. Visibility in the Black Sea is on average approximately 15 feet (as compared to up to 100 feet (30 m) in the Mediterranean)." So, somewhere between 776 BC and 323 AD.

Cheers, Kingturtle 20:39, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Jesus Prayer in Japanese[edit]

Can someone please transcribe the following into romaji?


Thanks. --Xiaopo 22:57, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

You can use Jim Breen's WWWJDIC to translate and romanize words in Japanese. Your sentence romanizes (in the Hepburn system) as iesu kirisuto, kami no ko yo, watashi o awarende kudasai. あわれんでください is written 哀れんで下さい using kanji. Gdr 13:10, 2004 Jun 25 (UTC)


Is it true that there were trains during Roman times? Plus did the Romans invent the train? Thank You!

The train as in the thing on railway tracks? Who told you that the Romans had those? DO'Neil 01:06, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)
While I doubt you'd call it a train, apparently the Romans had horse-drawn tracked vehicles of a kind; see Wagonway. --Robert Merkel 01:14, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Clever chaps, those Romans. They also invented (well, had, at least) traffic calming. If memory serves, the roadways discovered in Pompeii are crossed by stepping stones. Primarily these allowed pedestrians to cross the streets without getting their sandals dirty, but the size of the gaps in the raised stones meant that some hotheaded puer in a stolen chariot couldn't go peeling around the streets (at least not without a few tooth-shattering jolts). Just like council estates today. Hey, you travellous wikipedians - does someone have a photo of said stones, so I can add it to traffic calming? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:24, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Maybe this question comes from a garbled version of the rather silly old tale that the standard gauge of railroad tracks in England (or something) is descended from the width of Roman carts, which determined the width of the old Roman roads, which were used for ages afterward, and so on. So somebody who has half-heard the story says, "The width of a railroad train coms from the Romans", and person to whom that sounds weird—it is weird, after all—directs a query here. 04:52, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC) [wrong name because my login went bye-bye]

Artist Parkinson Fox?[edit]

My mother inherited a painting from my great-grandmother signed by artist Parkinson Fox. Does anybody know anything about this artist, or where I can find out something about him? She lived most of her life in Arkansas, Tennessee, Oklahoma and California. RickK 05:07, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)

civil rights denied through Ca. workers comp and funded by the federal government[edit]

Ho, I am Kathleen Chase, proudly desended from the Hupa Tribe in Northern California, and not only do I seek help but to share what Grandfather has shown me. I was hurt while working as a certified nurses aid in 1997 repeatedly, my attorney was paid over one hundred and sixty thousand dollars to shaft me and drop me as a client. In mid 1999 I began to investigate and research in the law books what was happening to me, this search took back to 1992 and farther.My work comp files are full of documented evidence medical negligence, fraud, to an attempt to perform unnecessary spinal fusion and prosecute me for fraud. Unable to go to a law library because of my pain and they are an intimidating place if you don't know what your looking for or where to look. I found the books I needed, did you know a lay person can not just walk in a buy law books? I found them anyway and walking with Grandfather in the medicine wheel he showed how people of authority can file under the fraud prevention act with the Control Board or some unknown court that the person they are filing against is guilty of commiting unprosecutable frauds, like when you work and get welfare, that is an unprosecutable fraud, even though the person did nothing wrong and reported their income like they are suppose to. When this happens the accused is not informed or notified, and have no opportunity to defend themself. The people who filed the claim recieve a judgment, for each judgment they are given 2 to 4 years to legally engage in criminal activity to entrap, in my case me, in a prosecutable fraud, and prosecute. During the time period my citizenship status was altered. I was found to not to be entitled to the benefits of society, and no longer entitled to protection under the law or due process. Because of this my complaints of criminal acts commited against me in my work comp cases are not valid. To report this type of crime you can not guilty of even an unprosecutable fraud. They can take a levy against your personality, and a lien against your reality when I first learned this I laughed but I soon realized this was no joke. My phones were sencured, my computer corrupted, my credit cards ran up, my home entered and my notes and records taken. I am followed and video taped and electronicly eves dropped on. They can end your life if they want with the approval of the system, which they attempted to do, but following my gut at the time I discovered this I picked up the phone, it was tapped and making that tell tell beep beep sound, I began to call anyone I could think of telling them I believed a lawyer I had upset had taken a contract out on my life, I recieved a phone call from a friend confirming this and telling me I needed to make a safe tape of what I knew, I also wrote a letter to the presiding judge informing him that I knew my life was in danger and that I was binding my life to his and if I died the truth of my case would move forward. I recieved a sign that I would live for a time. Not only have I suffered these things and more, but my children and grandchildren, my man, my friends,and anyone who assists me have suffered. So I stay alone and have no close relationships with anyone but my man. Over the years I have written many places to file my complaints, last year during a work comp trial the judge told me "Things were changing in the work comp system because of me just how much would change depended on what I did." I didn't know what he meant, he went on to tell me I am the first person in California to discover what was happening. When I told him I was trying to report a crime commited against me, he replied "yes we know about you but we don't know what we're going to do." I just realized to night what it was I did. One of my complaints went to the attorney general, I never heard anything back and had forgotten about it. I found their web site and read how the attorney general is agressivly enforcing civil rights laws and how they were taking legal action civilly. Then read how they would accept complaints from people but would not an individual such as myself. Even though my complaint caused them to investigate my claims, and make changes to the system. The legal statute that allowed this to be done to me and many other people was repealed last year, but my situation has not changed. I am seeking legal help or guidence. What has been done to me is a violation of the 1972 Hayes act in which I was granted federal recognition as a Native American although I am not a tribal member. I believe they have violated many treaties and discriminated against many people of all races, anyone who has received public aid is a target. In case I can't reconnect to your web site I want you to be able to contact me by e-mail or by phone but please do not include it when you post my message <deleted by Jwrosenzweig>. May the sun warm your face on the cold winter days and a cool breeze be with you through the heat. Kathleen

Kathleen, I am sorry to tell you that we are not lawyers here -- this is a free online encyclopedia project, and we are all volunteers who are helping to build it. Any legal advice you get here would be offered by people who mean well, but who likely won't know enough about your local area's laws. You seem to have had a rough time with your lawsuit, and I hope you can find someone to give you aid. I suggest contacting community organizations like the YMCA to see if they know of legal professionals who help in situations such as yours. I believe the term you should be looking for is pro bono -- unless I'm mistaken, it's a phrase used to describe a lawyer who takes a case for free out of a desire to do good. Perhaps that will give you some help. Keep checking locally -- I wish you well in your search for justice. I have deleted personal information you posted above because you said "please do not include it when you post my message" -- around here, all messages are posted instantly. Thank you for your warm blessing, and if I may return it, may the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, and until we meet again, may God hold you in the hollow of his hand. Jwrosenzweig 16:45, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Beautifully put you wonderful person, you. --bodnotbod 22:11, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)


 Are pigs native of Asia?

They are part of the Chinese zodiac, so they have been there a long time. Not sure of the original birthplace of pigs and whether they were brought with or brought to asian cultures. - Tεxτurε 15:31, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Quick, grab the Guns, Germs, and Steel. Jared Diamond says they were first domesticated in Southeast Asia. In any case, yes, the wild boar that gave rise to the modern pig is native to Eurasia and North Africa. Dandrake 05:04, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

There are indigenous species of boars and pigs found throughout Asia. --Gerald Farinas 00:45, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Dodge ball[edit]

What is the history of dodge ball?

Dodgeball (or Dodge-Ball) was invented in Akron, Ohio in 1897 by cousins Clarence A. Ball and Hubert Dodge, who patented the game under its first name, Clarence-Hubert the following year. Shortages of vultanized rubber following the 1902 Sino-Caledonian war meant that the pair were forced to play with a broken housebrick. It was during this era that the game, then generally known as "DeathBrick", enjoyed its golden age. By 1910 DeathBrick was played at colleges including Princeton, Yale, and the DeVry Institute, and the increasing popularity of the sport saw the formation of the National Deathbrick League in 1912 and the United Negro Deathbrick League the following year. In the prosperous years following the First World War, deathbrick became the first american sport to integrate, and in 1928 the unified leagues replaced the regulation six pound housebrick with a lighter solid latex ball. The name Dodgeball, by then genericized, was adopted at the same time. Some critics believe this marked the advent of commercialisation of dodgeball and the end of the gentleman's game. Some amateurs continue to play deathbrick with reproduction equipment, and the traditional thunk of brick on cranium continues to be heard in council estates and in bus shelters the world over.
Man, we need an article about this. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:00, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Finlay is having a little fun with you, which I fully enjoyed and appreciate. :-) But if you want the actual answer to your question, I suggest reading the Dodgeball article. Jwrosenzweig 17:12, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Hmm, can we somehow promote this to BJAODN without actually creating an article? Ehh... n/m. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:49, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)
Oh, don't encourage me. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:44, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
If we posted every funny thing Finlay wrote around here to BJAODN, he'd have his own namespace. ;-) Jwrosenzweig 22:29, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

help finding an old Wired magazine article online[edit]

Steve Steinberg's "Net-Heads vs. Bell-Heads" Issue 4.10 October 1996 Wired Magazine article used to be online at and and now the full text is not there anymore. Does anyone know where else it archived? - Bevo 16:28, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wired Magazine was founded in 1917 in Toulouse by cousins David Wi and Etiene Red ... Oops, sorry, force of habit. It's at -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:16, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Thanks! - Bevo 19:46, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

River City[edit]

As far as I know, there are several cities that are referred to casually as "river city". Among these are:

Does anyone know if the "River City" in River City Ransom refer to any of these actual cities? Are there any other instances of a "River City" in literature or other media? - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:00, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, Mason City, Iowa claims to be the River City from a famous old musical, Music Man. Alteripse 22:36, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

calcium to ephedra[edit]

Is it possible to chemically alter calcium to become ephedrine chemical name of [(methylamino)ethyl]benzene-methanol. C10 H15 NO

Only with a philosopher's stone that transmutes elements. Alteripse 22:39, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It would appear that Ephedra is a far more complicated substance than merely altered calcium -- specifically, it appears to me that ephedrine alkaloids are added to calcium to make ephedra (although more, it appears, is involved). Furthermore, I doubt any such processes are available to the public, seeing as they are probably lucrative for the pharmaceutical companies who no doubt protect their patent. But perhaps a biochemist can help. Alteripse's suggestion of alchemy is as noble and tantalizing as it is whimsical and antiquated. :-) Jwrosenzweig 22:42, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
To clarify Alteripse's statement, calcium is a chemical element. Ephedrine, according to the chemical formula you gave, does not contain calcium but contains the elements carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, and oxygen. A chemical reaction can combine atoms of elements in new ways, but cannot convert atoms from one type of element to another. moink 22:44, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Precisely, Moink. I'm guessing that the gap between the science types and humanities types is yawning here? Alteripse 02:42, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

What's it called when a word has more than one spelling?[edit]

For example. Spatial - and - Spacial. What's the word to express the multiple spellings, if any?

Thank you, any help is appreciated.

The word you want is variants. --Gelu Ignisque

When they sound the same, but are spelt differently? They're homophones. When they are spelt the same, but have different meanings, they're homonyms. Dysprosia 03:58, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The Guardian (british newspaper) has a thing called Homophone corner in its errors and clarifications section. I'm trying to think what the common journalist's mistakes are... but I've been typing on and off for 36 hours without sleep now, so I'm struggling. --bodnotbod 05:48, Jun 26, 2004 (UTC)
alcohol, consumption of, excessive and persistent, from the journalists I've known... oh, you mean spelling errors? m.e. 10:03, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I actually thought you was putting me on the analyst's couch. --bodnotbod 18:54, Jun 26, 2004 (UTC)
Well although they are homophones that is usually used to describe different words that sound the same. In this case (and many others thanks to Webster's rationalisation) they are really the same word. Following the pattern of heteronym, I would suggest hetrograph but that doesn't appear to be a word and heterography has a different meaning. Interestingly, before Samuel Johnson set the standard for English orthography, spelling was not well defined. The phonetic variations in spelling is one of the methods used to trace the evolution of pronunciations and language. -- Solipsist 11:48, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Your word would have to be heterograph, from the Greek heteros, "other," + graphos, "writing." --Gelu Ignisque
Some other related thoughts, what is it called when the same word is both spelt and pronounced differently, e.g. aluminium vs. aluminum. Or is that just confusing two languages that appear the same but are now diverged.
What is it called when the same word in the same language can be written in more than one script, e.g. the kanji, hiragana, romaji example Jesus prayer above. -- Solipsist 14:01, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Writing a word in another script is transliteration --Greg K Nicholson 01:46, 2004 Jul 14 (UTC)

I'd just call it having acceptable variant spellings. -- Jmabel 17:43, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

"Written dialect"? --bodnotbod 20:41, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

Brushing your tongue[edit]

I put a question on the tongue talk page, but answer came there none. I asked (of course, for a notional friend) why a tongue can be persistently coated. What does it mean? Brushing my, I mean his, his tongue... why is it that when he brushes his tongue it comes out looking a bit healthier then returns all coated and turgid next time I poke... I mean he pokes it out? Does brushing the tongue damage the taste buds? Or does it make them more vigorous and healthy? --bodnotbod 04:12, Jun 26, 2004 (UTC)

Dentists say: "Don't forget to brush your tongues!" So I assume it will not damage the taste bud. I mean, there are so many of them. Killing a few probably will just decrease your appetite a little bit and make one less voraciously unappealing at dinner parties. --Menchi 05:11, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Don't worry about your taste buds, but you've got to stop licking the cat. Alteripse 05:15, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Dentists say: "Don't forget to brush your tongues!" - jeez, I'd find a new dentist. Most people I know have only got one tongue. If he's using the plural I think he might be sniffing his own codeine. Either that or you speak, quite literally, with forked tongue. Next time you go in for a check up say "how many teeth am I holding up?" If he says anything above zero then either he's out of it, or you've already let him extract one too many. --bodnotbod 05:44, Jun 26, 2004 (UTC)

I think there might be something to this though - there are products for cleaning the tongue - scrapers and the like. I have never used them - anyone know whether they are snake oil? Mark Richards 06:48, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

snake oil and patent medicine are two of some favourite articles I've found since I've been hanging around this place. --bodnotbod 07:11, Jun 26, 2004 (UTC)
My friend recently bought a toothbrush which had some ridges on the reverse of the head designed for 'tongue scraping', which might suggest that the normal bristles shouldn't be used, but then again it could just be a gimmick to sell a few more toothbrushes. I also once read somewhere that you could scrape the white gunk off with a teaspoon, but that feels a bit weird of the taste buds too. Plus you should always remember to wash it before you put it back in your neighbour's cutlerly draw. --Chopchopwhitey 07:28, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, there are designed tongue scrapers. Like a... thin horseshoe. Stainless steel. I remember they had them on some tawdry British breakfast show. I think the cold feel of steel on the tongue is kinder than a shovelling of bristles. I'm not really...I mean my friend isn't really happy with the answers so far. Where's the Wikipedia Dentistry Arbitration Committee?--bodnotbod 19:01, Jun 26, 2004 (UTC)

Did you know toothbrushes before 1938 were made of animal hair ? Wonder if dentists then used to suggest brushing the tongue. Maybe this could be put in the "Did you know .." section on the Main page. Any Wikipedian here who has brushed his teeth before 1938 ? Jay 14:11, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

LOL! Well, I bet they're not still brushing them now. Perhaps rubbing them down with brasso... --bodnotbod 20:43, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)
Scientific evidence has proven that halitosis and other foul breath circumstances are caused not so much by bacteria between teeth but moreso from bacteria on the tongue. Plaque collects on the tongue (the white layer of stuff) and begins fermenting sugars and whatever else they can find in your mouth. That is why it is recommended to brush your tongue lightly (no, it doesn't damage your tastebuds) or to gently use a scraper. Tongue scrapers have been used since ancient times by the Chinese. They were ahead of their time and understood that bad breath was caused by that layer that builds up on the tongue. --Gerald Farinas 00:52, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Oh great. And I've got a date tomorrow. Surely there must be other things I can do to it? At least I've got some mince. Er, I mean, mints. A mouthful of ground cow isn't going to help my snogging, is it? --bodnotbod 02:29, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)


An ancestor, Minnie Armstrong Barrie lived in Battleford at the time of her death, 23 May 1957. She was buried in the Moose Jaw, SK Cemetery in the Armstrong plot. She had previously lived, in Moose Jaw. She was the widow of Alexander Ingram Barrie. Was she also the former widow of Charles Ernst Armstrong? Can you send me her obit or any information about her?

I want to make arrangements for mailing of any obit or newspaper clippings you might have.

Please give me the address / E-mail of the local newspaper.

Bernard J. Diedrich 1140 Windsong Lane Sarasota, FL 34242 U. S. A. 941 349-8001 E-mail//

You may find this site helpful: [23] moink 01:55, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Hey latin-speakers. If my (google-based) latin is correct, "endo-rheic" means roughly "acid inside", yet an endorheic lake is invariably alkaline. Does rheic really mean "caustic" rather than "acidic", or am I missing something? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:21, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, your basic problem is that endorheic is Greek rather than Latin, and means something like "flowing in" because they have no outlet to the sea. I don't think it has any relationship to pH. Alteripse 00:01, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"relating to or characterized by interior drainage, i.e., the condition of a region in which little or none of the surface drainage reaches the sea" --Merriam-Webster's Third New International Dictionary Unabridged on CD-ROM. --Gelu Ignisque
The roots are Greek endo-, "inside" (maybe from en, "in," + domos, "house"); rhein, "to flow"; and the English combining form -ic, from French -ique, partially from Latin -icus and partially from Greek -ikos.

Classics Rhyme/Awful pun[edit]

Can anyone fill in the blank in this half-remembered couplet?

Scotland, how thee a double darkness _____, For thy name is Scotia and thy teacher Knox

Scotia and nox being Greek and Latin respectively for night. It has to rhyme with Knox so a process of elimination should work but I can't think of the word. The meaning is something like 'curses'. Any ideas? adamsan 01:48, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

From a rhyming dictionary: bloc's, bloch's, block's, blocks, blocs, box, boxx, brock's, brox, clock's, clocks, cocks, cox, coxe, dock's, docks, flocks, fox, foxx, frocks, jocks, knocks, kroc's, locks, lox, mocks, ochs, ox, pocks, pox, rock's, rocks, rox, sachs, shocks, socks, sox, stock's, stocks, stocks', vocs, vox moink 01:51, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps mocks? moink 01:52, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Wow that was fast, it is indeed 'mocks'. Thanks moink I can go to bed now!adamsan 02:00, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Scotia isn't Greek for night. It is Latin for Scotland, e.g., the dear province of Nova Scotia. --Menchi 03:16, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

skotos in classical greek can mean shade, shadow, or dark night. Modern English cognate is scotoma, for a blind spot in one's vision. Alteripse 03:21, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

For the record, scotoma isn't a cognate, it's a derivative; the word was consciously formed from the ancient Greek elements, not simultaneously derived from Indo-European?English wasn't around back then! --Gelu Ignisque

  • Wow, I've been out-nitpicked! You are absolutely correct, derivative is the right term. I doff my hat! Although you may not believe it, there is no sarcasm in this note. You wann join our nerd club? Alteripse 22:16, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hence for searchable clarity, couplet is:

"Scotland, how thee a double darkness mocks,
For thy name is Scotia and thy teacher Knox"
Who is author? Mervyn
This may indeed be a pun, since Latin Scotia meaning "Scotland" could be identical to Greek *scotia, "darkness" (from skotos, defined above, + -ia, a suffix forming abstract nouns). --Gelu Ignisque

I thought Latin for Scotland was Caledonia and Scotia was Ireland. Or am I just confused?

  • Hibernia was Ireland. You are correct about Caledonia, but Scotia became used in the middle ages for Scotland. Alteripse 22:17, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I made a small change but messed up and didn't do an explan ..[edit]

.. ation, which I would like to add. How can I add my explanation to the history?

You can't, but you should be able to make the change on whatever page you messed up, and explain if necessary on the talk page. Mark Richards 07:15, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
You can also do any kind of little edit just after the first, putting something like "prev edit was major" or "prev edit expanded on the history section and also took out silly POV" in the edit summary. ✏ Sverdrup 01:37, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't this query be posted on the village pump? --Gelu Ignisque

Probably. Mark Richards 23:32, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)


What are phosphenes (the shifting glow that one sees when one's eyes are closed)? What causes them? --Eequor 04:37, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

What's wrong with your eyes?; our eyes don't do that... just kidding. Phosphenes are nerve signals from the neurons of the retina to the visual cortex of the brain which are interpreted as lights and visual patterns, but are not caused by visual light. They can be produced by a variety of things, including pressure stimulation to the eyeball, and less commonly various diseases of the retina and nerves. Perhaps some may even be "constructively perceived" in the dark in the same way that we can begin to "hear" vague noises in a completely quiet room. Goodnight, I'm going to go watch some phosphenes. Alteripse 04:57, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)


I want to learn everything about fine wines. Where do I start? --Jiang 01:34, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, for a start, it depends on the purpose of your learning. If you want to learn for professional reasons, there are professional courses on the topic. Heck, in some countries you can do a university degree in winemaking (you can in Australia and presumably France), and our technical colleges offer certificates in wine for sommeliers and chefs.
However, if you are seeking to learn about wines as a hobby, there are several ways to learn about wine. You could start with a beginner's tutorial, these can be found on sites such as or you may find that an introductory book on the topic might be helpful. However, to learn about wine the most enjoyable part is trying lots of them and discovering which ones you like! One obvious way to do that is to visit wine growing areas, visit a number of wineries, and taste their wares. The winemakers will be very eager to tell you all about their products, and while there's an element of marketing BS in their spiels you should learn a few things when you compare what your taste buds are telling you to the maker's description of the wine. If you're not so lucky, many retailers and other organizations organize wine tastings, sometimes as part of "wine appreciation" courses.
Oh, and if you're able to go out to a good restaurant, talk to the waiter about what wine goes best with the meal. They should be experts on their restaurant's wine list, and from osmosis you should be able to pick up some guidelines for yourself.
Finally, remember, it's all about what you enjoy. If you think it tastes good or bad, that's your perogative.
Of course, you may be interested in winemaking, which is a whole different sport. Again, a good book or a local club will be able to help you out. Mark Richards 17:26, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the info...It's mainly for personal enrichment purposes. I'm still two and a half years short of the legal age in the US, so I'll have to wait before making a trip to Napa. I do, however, have a couple hundred bottle of the stuff sitting in my house...

At this point, I'm mainly interested in introductory books on the topic I can look at this summer.--Jiang 07:43, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well if you have the wine but can't drink it in public, the best option might be an online wine course (random Google example [24]) which could lead you through the tastings. Probably best to gather a group of like-minded friends though. -- Solipsist 09:19, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I want to learn everything about fine wines. Where do I start?
"We want the finest wines available to humanity; we want them here; and we want them now."
Withnail and I
chocolateboy 03:36, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The Hollywood "Point" system[edit]

Can someone explain what it means for an actor or director to have points for a project? I know that it factors in to how much many they can make, but I'd like to know the specifics. (If possible, could you also put the answer on my talk page? Thanks)--Wasabe3543 06:56, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Unless I recall badly, if, say, Tom Hanks has "5 points" on his next film Forrest Gump II: Armageddon, it means that he will receive, in addition to whatever salary is paid, 5% of the film's profits. Points are usually held by major producers, directors, and lead actors (occasionally actresses, although I fear they have been neglected too often in the past). Obviously, points are of widely variable value -- whoever had points for Waterworld was sorely diappointed, whereas one presumes it would have been wise for Elijah Wood to forgo his entire salary for the LOTR in exchange for a single point on the profits. SOmeone else should give a more detailed explanation, however. Jwrosenzweig 16:44, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

copy of marriage[edit]

You are really asking for quite a feat of mind reading here. But if you want a copy of a marriage certificate and you are British you should visit your registry office, I think. --bodnotbod 20:48, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

A swift google for 'copy marriage <country>' or 'copy marriage <state>' should give you something useful, such as Registry Offices in London, England. or New York City Marriage Bureau. Sometimes you can print out an application form online, or at least they should provide contact details and a brief description of the process. akaDruid 23:37, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
In the United Kingdom, if you visit your local record office they should have an index of all marriages that have been registered in the UK since July 1837, indexed by surname of both bride and groom. It costs £8 (I think) to order a marriage certificate, and it takes about a week to come through. In the US I believe you need to approach the state in which the marriage took place. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 23:40, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thesis about Hypertext[edit]

hi i'm an italian student and i'm interested in hypertext, i'm planning to write a chapter of my thesis about hypertextual encyclopedia and i'd like to speak about wikipedia. All i ask for is a brief interview with someone i could send few questions about this encyclopedia. I think would be interesting for me and nice for you too, I hope you can help me.

My email address is i hope i hear from you soon.

Best regards


Why not do things in the true Wiki way and put up your questions here? Dysprosia 09:36, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'll contact him. →Raul654 16:58, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

Verbed nouned verbs, or nouned verbed nouns[edit]

I was trying to give someone an example of one of my pet peeves: turning a verb derived from a noun into a noun, or turning a noun derived from a verb into a verb. But I couldn't come up with many common ones off the top of my head. I hope to get him a longer list.

The best examples I can come up with right now are actioning: act -> action -> actioning and orientate: orient -> orientation -> orientate. They don't have to be real words, just manglings that get used. moink 16:50, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

My personal vote for most annoying example of this is "to birth" as a verb meaning "to bear" by people who do not understand that birth is simply the noun form of bear. Alteripse 17:03, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

"administer" -> "administration" -> "administrate" -- Jmabel 17:48, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

One attends a party, but should never just "party!". --bodnotbod 20:51, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

I think that this comment exemplifies the reason why gramar mavens are not invited to the best parties. Mark Richards 17:33, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Irrelevant; party is not derived from a verb, so to party would not have the following derivation:
V *to party
N a party
V to party
I actually used to hate parties until I hit on the gambit of starting conversations with new people by saying "I hate parties" which seems to be a surprisingly effective ice breaker (said with a smile, not a frown). I can't actually figure out whether the person who's done all that stuff with the V's and N's is agreeing with me or disagreeing. --bodnotbod 02:38, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

--Gelu Ignisque

"burgle" -> "burglar" -> "burglarize"? Proteus (Talk) 09:31, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

That's taken another step and become an adjective as well- I saw a US reality TV cops show where a suspect was arrested in possession of 'burglarious items'. Burglarization cannot be far away; what ever happened to good old fashioned larceny? adamsan 10:09, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Following some googling I now see that burglarious is a venerable term used at least since the eighteenth century and I wish to apologise to the law enforcement agencies of the United States for my baseless slur on their grammar. adamsan 10:17, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
"burglarization" gets 75 hits on Google. Several of them are people commenting on the same thing we are, but there at least a couple of seemingly serious uses of it. Proteus (Talk) 11:00, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
You get another 26 hits if you say "burglarisation". --bodnotbod 16:27, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)
Just for the record, "burgle" originated as a back-formation from "burglar", so this does not fit.
Unfortunately, I don't actually have any such usages to contribute. Lucky Wizard 22:30, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
That explanation is correct; in other words, burglar independently gave birth to the backformation burgle (primarily a Briticism, I think) and, by derivation, to the verb burglarize (in the U.S.), which are both synonyms. --Gelu Ignisque

My personal peeve is using "reference" as a verb. Whatever happened to good old "refer" or even "cite"? Ambarish | Talk 08:00, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Scrutiny -> Scrutinize -> Scrutinization -- Heron 20:56, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"He believes in an ... ugly: "Creative" as a noun."
chocolateboy 03:45, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

re:grandfather clock (from vuncent masset`s house)[edit]

help me to discuss the grandfather clock that i have that came from vincent massey`s house not sure if it was from the house on jarvis street or the house in por hope ? would you be interested in borrowing it ? please let me know by e.mail or phone at 705 436 3549 thankyou geoff jackson

Hi Geoff. While we have an article on past Governor General of Canada Vincent Massey, I don't think anyone's going to be able to answer your question. You might have some luck e-mailing the Heritage Foundation of Ontario at moink 18:19, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Jambiya knife inscription[edit]

I have an old Jambiya knife that has and inscription on each side of the blade in gold, very legible but in an unknown, to me, language. I am just trying to find someone to translate the inscription into English, Can you help me on this? If you want me to I could paste a picture of the inscription but only if would like me to as I do not want to take up you time needlessly. Thank you Earl G. Beall

I think putting up a picture would be the best way to save time all around. Go ahead. --bodnotbod 20:52, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

the meaning of semantic differential in corporate communucation[edit]

From what I understand, the 'semantic differential' is a measurement of how people percive words. In a corperate context, this is likely to mean what people think of brand names and marketing slogans. You may want to read this page for more technical information. Hope this helps. akaDruid 09:10, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ambassador Title[edit]

When an Ambassador has completed the assignment of Ambassador and no longer holds the post, does he/she keep the title? Is a former Ambassador still addressed as Ambassador?


Probably varies by country, but in the U.S., yes.-- Jmabel 17:31, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)
All United States officials keep the title of their highest rank of public service. For example, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card is still addressed as Mr. Secretary or Secretary Andrew Card, having been a former cabinet officer. --Gerald Farinas 19:06, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

alfred hitchcock books[edit]

How much would some three investigators books be worth now? There not exactly in mint condition (some wrinkles and ballpoint marks on the pages here and there).how much would second hand mint condition books be?

  • I suggest that you research this on -- Jmabel 17:33, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

September 11 personal accounts[edit]

Where is the best place to find personal accounts, and even news reports, if possible, from during/directly after the September 11 tragedy? Rhymeless 18:29, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

We have a Memorial Wiki which might be a good place to start. See also the links at the end of the article September 11, 2001 attacks. -- DrBob 20:35, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

find inmates[edit]

You're not from a certain security firm are you? adamsan 19:22, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Flora image identification[edit]

My knowledge of flowers being somewhat small, could anyone identify these images I've taken? Uploading them as "red flower", "orange-red rose", &c., is rather... useless. Many thanks,
James F. (talk) 22:03, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The plant with lots of heart shaped pink flowes with a white center is a Bleeding heart (plant) theresa knott 11:00, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fastest Human Speed[edit]

What is the fastest speed a human has achieved by running, hopping, crawling, and walking on their hands? Elpenmaster

  • Running [25]
  • Swimming [26]
  • The world's longest, not fastest, crawl... [27]

This is not relevant, but I thought it was interesting! [28]

Mark Richards 23:08, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The fastest time running the 75-yard-dash backwards (in 8.2 seconds) was once recorded by Bojangles (the tap dancer from the Shirley Temple movies)Rhymeless 03:28, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

  • Running 11.9 m/s [29]
  • Walking 4.6 m/s [30].
  • Walking on hands 1.6 m/s [31].

Can't find any data on crawling or hopping. It's possible there is no official record for either of these activities. akaDruid 10:44, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Sept 11 2001[edit]

Hello, In your article about the ___ September 11, 2001 attack oportunists do not show a link in reference to cause and effect to Macroeconomics. I need to know where I can go in your site to find this analysis. Thanks,


Can you clarify? We have articles on macroeconomics, September 11th, and its aftermath; if those are not sufficient, you could help us by adding economic information to one or all of the articles in question. If you're not in that sort of mood, here's a Google search for "september 11" "us economy". --Ardonik 23:54, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Getting from Kos to Ios and back[edit]

Not a very encyclopedic question, but I've come to rely on the Wikipedia community. Can anyone think of a way to get from the Greek island of Kos to the equally-Greek island of Ios, as well as the other way aronud? (There are no direct ferry lines, and while my DK Eyewitness guide to the Greek Islands claim there is a line between Kos and Naxos, as well as between Naxos and Ios, I have been unable to locate online references.) Comfort and the length of the voyage are of no importance, money is. Also, if you feel compelled to divulge any Ios-related horror stories (of which there is an abundance on the web), go right ahead. -- Itai 23:32, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, what you have to understand, young lady, is that the Greeks, not content with dominating the culture of the Classical world, are also responsible for the greatest, some would say the only, work of true creative imagination produced this century as well. I refer of course to the Greek ferry timetables. A work of the sublimest fiction. Anyone who has travelled in the Aegean will confirm this. Hmm, yes. I think so. - Douglas Adams. Mark Richards 23:56, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 :-). That one made me laugh. Gerald Durrell, by the way, has once written quite an amusing tale of Greek seamanship, which I reread in preparation for this holiday. However, it would appear to be that I had best not insult any Greeks who may be reading this, in whose mercy I lie. -- Itai 00:14, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Your best bet is to talk to a travel agency. Not only are the Ferry lines seasonal, they seem to change every season. When I was last in the islands, I couldn't find a single travel guide that had an accurate ferry map. So it may be that there is a ferry between the two now. You may also be able to catch a plane from neighboring Naxos to Kos. Also, you could charter your own boat, if you had the cash on hand or a large enough group. Lots of options, but the bottom line is that you will need to consult with someone who has up to date ferry and plane information. Most websites are pitifully out of date, but this one looks like a good start: Reid 15:48, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)


A colleague at work came out with a phrase I'd never heard of before and claimed it was very common in certain parts of England. The phrase was It were so hot, it were crackin the flags. What does this phrase mean and where does it come from? (They refused to tell me because I'm a southerner...) -- Graham ☺ | Talk 23:43, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It sounds like it might refer to it being hot enough to crack flagstones, or flags - stones used to pave streets. Mark Richards 23:57, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
That sounds likely. 'Flags' is in common use in some areas of Nothern England to mean road or pavement. I've heard in Yorkshire myself. The phrase 'One for t' flags' is common, meaning a last drink before leaving 'for the road'. akaDruid 09:47, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Dharam Singh Karnataka CM profile

Cities, counties and population in the USA[edit]

Hi I found your website through search engines and I think it is excellent. For one of my school projects I need to make a chart of all the cities and their population within each county of each state (any population value within the last 4 years will do). I found entries for the list of cities in some of the states of USA but nothing at all about the counties to which they belong. The population data about those cities appear not to be comprehensive. So here is my question: Can you please guide me where I can find all this info without the need to go through 3000 and more websites? Thank you in advance for you help. Dustin Win Santa Ana College California

This question (and answer) is also posted at the Help Desk.

All of the cities within all of the counties within all of the states in the United States? Either this is a monumental task, or you're going to need to clarify. It is not uncommon to have at least 20 cities in any single county, and most states have 25+ counties; Texas, the second-largest state, has the most counties (254) and likely the most cities (upwards of 40,000 I believe). However, on the entry for each state (see California), there is a listing of all of the counties, or a link to it. Although the pages for the individual counties will list their populations, they may not neccesarily list all of the cities in the county. However, the cities themselves are all listed within wikipedia, with their populations and locations. (see Anchorage, Alaska) Hope this helps; I pray that the project you've been assigned is more specific than it appears to be. Rhymeless 06:16, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Answer from Dustin: I know it is a huge task. I am really looking for all cities from all counties per counties. I already know that there are 3140 counties and over 27,000 cities. This is why I need help to find all this info in one central place/website rather than looking for cities state by state and then county per county... I thought that there may be one or several sites providing this info in one go. Thank you for your answer all the same.

RamMan may have something to say about this - didn't RamBot go through all the census data to produce these pages? It must be available in raw form somewhere, probably on the govt. census site? Would this help? fedstatsMark Richards 17:14, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

How about the census bureau's American FactFinder for a human-readable interface. I think you can also download tables of raw data from there as well. olderwiser 17:26, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Who is Sam Newman[edit]

He appears to be, amongst other things;

  • A blogger [32]
  • Australia's No. 1 Football media personality [33]
  • landlord of the fabled Newman Building at the corner of Camp and Lafayette [34]

Any other guesses? Mark Richards 15:56, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)


...and what is it you wanted to know about them? --Ardonik 23:58, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Public domain for images of artwork[edit]

I know that artwork older than however-many years are public domain, as any copyright that would apply would have expired. However, what about the a photo of that piece of artwork? Many of the photos of particularly famous sculptures are done by famous photographers. There are some sculpture images here that are unlabeled, but I don't want to report them as copyvios if they are public domain. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:47, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)

A simple photograph is not a creative work, and so cannot be copyrighted. Arguably, any creative interpretation could be. It's complex, and IAMAL. Mark Richards 21:08, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Polynomial Remainders Theory[edit]

What is the proof of the polynomial remainders theorem? ie. if a Polynomial P(x) is divided by (x - a), its remainder is P(a). And who proved it for the first time? Is there a wikipedia article on it, and if not, shouldn't there be...?

I wrote a stub at: Polynomial remainder theorem. Samw 04:23, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

UK three pin plugs[edit]

Why is it that only Britain bothers with three-pin electrical plugs? Is the rest of the world under cautious, or is Britain over cautious?

It's not a matter of being cautious. I think that there are some US plugs with earth pins, +plugs in other countries with earth pins also. Certain appliances don't need a connection to an earth pin, which is why they are omitted with those devices. Dysprosia 09:15, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Also mains voltage in Britain is 230V whereas in the Us it's 120V (I think), so that might be part of the reason. theresa knott 09:23, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
3-pin plugs usually have a fuse inside, so they have to be big enough to contain the fuse-holder. That might also be a factor. Plus of course the simple expense of replacing all the sockets if we decided to change. --Phil | Talk 09:34, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)
See [35] for info on earthed (or, as they say there "grounded") 3-pin plugs around the world. -- Picapica 09:58, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
In mainland Europe the earth pin is in the plug surrounding itself. The advantage is that the plugs can be connected also upside-down. Anárion 09:59, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
European plugs differ slightly across the continent. There are plugs with no earth or certain appliances, but also plugs with the earth is various positions (a pin in the wall socket in France, a central pin in the plug in Italy, contacts on the side of the plug in Spain...) for appliances that need it. Are you saying no American plugs have no earth? Maybe it is because the US is still on 120V. Is there no information about this on Wikipedia? Maybe I should photograph some European plugs. — Chameleon My page/My talk 10:15, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps the short answer is 'Yes, Britain is over cautious', particularly with RCD circuit breakers in domestic wiring now. I seem to recall the IEEE being proud that the latest UK plug/socket design is the safest in the world. One problem with it is that it is also the largest and heaviest. So much so that the elderly and other people with poor motor skills have difficulty handling them.
Another features that make the UK plugs safer than average is that the wall plug contains a cover to hide the live connectors from probing by small children (why try and defeat Darwin?). The longer earth pin pushes the covers out of the way as the plug is inserted. Also the live pins are partially insulated so that it is very difficult to touch any live metalwork when the plug is partially inserted.
I'm pretty sure that there are some earth three pin plugs in the US, although they are not typical on most domestic appliances. I think it is design B on this page of world power plugs. -- Solipsist 12:24, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Many US plugs are 3 pin, with an earth (not sure what the criteria is), and all news plugs in the US have notches to stop people putting them in the wrong way round. Some appliances in the US are 220 volts (on a separate line), for example dryers. These have different plugs. The UK standardised on a very safe design, whereas the US has a variety of designs for different purposes. Mark Richards 15:52, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

OK, there is now a Mains power plug article. Go forth and improve it with your dazzling knowledge! — Chameleon My page/My talk 01:10, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There's a brief discussion at Mains power plug (which, incidentally, is something that would probably mean nothing to most Americans, as neither would "earthing", which I had never heard up till now--it's a "ground" or "grounding pin"). A little more detail & illustrations at Electrical socket. The grounding pin is usually required on items from which there is a higher likelihood of one being seriously damaged by a short, probably because of higher voltage (or amps, I guess)-- so refrigerators, microwaves, electric lawnmowers, power tools, and such normally have a 3-pin plug. Two-pin plugs are polarized; I don't think that anything legit is sold any more in the U.S. with an unpolarized 2-pin plug. Which can be somewhat frustrating for people with somewhat older houses with unpolarized outlets--or even older houses without even the 3rd hole for the ground pin. You can replace the outlets with new-style outlets but, if there's no grounding wire in the wall (or if the outlet isn't grounded somehow), you're short-circuiting (no pun intended) the safety of the polarized plug or the 3-pin plug. For outlet safety, most building codes require ground-fault interrupts on each circuit in a house so that a sudden draw of power--like from a short circuit or a finger in an outlet--cuts the power. Elf | Talk 01:23, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Incidentally, the reason the UK 3-pin plugs are so big is that there used to be a range of plugs IIRC from 2 Amp all the way up to 15 Amp. So your desk light would be on a small (about 3/4 inch across) three round pin 2 Amp plug (I was in Kenya last month and they were still using them), whereas your kettle or oven would be on a large chunky three square pin 13 Amp plug. For safety, you could get adapters so that you could plug the 2 Amp, 5 Amp etc. plugs into a 13 Amp socket but not the other way around. Needless to say, this requires a lot of adaptors and/or different sockets. They somehow eventually decided to wire all new sockets to 13 Amp for simplicity. (Don't know whether this still applies in the UK, but in Malaysia we still have special 15 Amp sockets for A/C units: the plug is slightly bigger than the 13 Amp and has three round pins, and the socket usually has its own circuit-breaker). I don't think we ever had two pin sockets. Andrew Yong 09:34, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Moved from help desk[edit]

How would I go about finding out who is the owner of a Company going under the name of 824389 ONT. INC. (moved by [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]])

You could start with which is the website for company registration in Ontario. Companies with names like this are generally very small companies registered in Ontario where the owner doesn't care about what the name is. DJ Clayworth 15:27, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

natural grass fertilizer formula[edit]

Well, the first thing you can do is to leave grass cuttings on the grass when you cut it, that will provide about 1/3 of the fertiliser needs. Mark Richards 15:54, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Winter sports[edit]

Let's say that I, an untrained individual living in North America, wanted to try luge or bobsledding. How would I go about this? How can one become an amateur luger, and are facilities for this available? I've always wondered how those people in the Olympics get their starts; who goes out and tries luge? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 15:21, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Possibly not the best advice, but you might get some ideas by watching the 1993 film Cool Runnings about the first Jamacian bobsled team. See also [36].
If access to ice/snow and a suitable track is a problem, you might attempt street luge which mentioned in Alternative_culture and has been an event in at least one year of the X Games held in San Francisco.
If access to a suitable track isn't such a problem I think you can get a relatively safe taste for the sport in an articulated bobsleigh which doesn't go too fast and is safe enough to send untutored Alpine tourists down a steep run without assistance. -- Solipsist 20:42, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I've luged twice here in north Chicago where I live. We call it buttboarding. Be prepared to get cut up and bruised on your first try. Anyhoo... There are great luge tracks in most of the big cities of you're willing to do some work to search them out. --Gerald Farinas 01:05, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Firefighters seldom get into firefights. Is there a word for this kind of thing? Mark Richards 15:56, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just to add to the confusion, in Catalan a firefighter is a "bomber". (In Spanish it's "bombero"). -- Jmabel 18:21, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)
By "thing", are you referring to firefight? If so, yes, OED says "fire-fight, Military, the struggle to establish fire superiority over the enemy". --Menchi 21:49, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Erm, I know what a firefight is, I'm looking for a word which describes the situation where you have two words (eg Firefighter and firefight) which, on the face of it, look similar, but in fact have nothing to do with each other. Mark Richards 21:58, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think it's quite what you're looking for, but the term false friend refers to a similar phenomenon. Lucky Wizard 00:43, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Also, similarly, "false cognate", but again that's usually for two different languages. -- Jmabel 06:13, Jul 3, 2004 (UTC)
A misnomer, but that's a general term.--[[User:HamYoyo|HamYoyo|TALK]] 09:39, Jul 3, 2004 (UTC)
The thing is that firefight and firefighter have different derivations. Firefighter is not firefight + -er; it's fire + fighter, the latter of which is in turn from fight and -er. As any linguistic morphologist will tell you, firefight is not a direct constituent of firefighter, so what may seem like strange lack of association in meaning is due to similar linear forms but different morphological hierarchies: [(noun) [(noun) '''fire'''] [(noun) '''fight''']] versus [(noun) [(noun) '''fire'''] [(noun) [(verb) '''fight'''] [(affix) '''-er''']]]. ''Firefighter'' is not *[(noun) [(noun) [(noun) '''fire'''] [(noun) '''fight''']] [(affix) '''-er''']]. --Gelu Ignisque

erm, yes, that's what I mean, is there a word for that? Thanks! Mark Richards 22:23, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

fire fighters fight fires, what exactly are freedom fighters doing?
Buses stop at bus stations, trains stop at train stations; what happens at work stations?

copyright permission for an image[edit]


I am writing on behalf of Thomson Delmar Learning. They are an educational publisher of textbooks and cd rom projects located in Clifton Park, NY.

They are working on a project entitled VisTE: Visualization in Technical Education which shows the student how graphics can be used to communicate scientific and technical education. The intended audience is high school students in grades 8-12.

They would like to include an image of DNA polymerase ("Taq pol") or Taq Polymerase from the following website: in the project as Fig. 3-1a.

The article cited is from Pubmedcentral of the NIH but it does not contain any photographs. I am assuming that a contributor to the encyclopedia owns copyright to this image.

I would be happy to forward a written request if you could kindly supply me with contact information for the appropriate person/department.

Thank You, Sharon Rounds S&R Photo Acquisitions,LLC 111 Birds Hill Road Averill Park, NY 12018 ph: 518-674-8182 fax: 518-674-0499

If you click on the image in question, it will take you to a page which gives some more information on where the image comes from (this is usually the case with images on Wikipedia). In this instance, the image appears to be in the public domain and came from the Protein Data Bank (PDB). But you should probably verify this for your publication. -- Solipsist 17:09, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)


How would I find the names of former congressmen from Oklahoma by the name of Connelly or Connor, year 1940-1985. Would appreciate your pointing me in the right way. John Cummings, Lawrence, Ks. .........Thanks

  • Well, for starters, this is the kind of thing any librarian could find you quickly, and Lawrence certainly has decent libraries. I wouldn't be surprised if they could tell you on the phone. Your best online bet (I didn't follow through to check for these names) is -- Jmabel 18:26, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)
I would try the U.S. Congress biographical dictionary, searchable at Or look in our article on List of United States Congresses, which should have all the congresses from the years you mentioned. Good luck, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 18:26, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What is Marlon Brando's ethnic background?[edit]

He was English, Irish, and French - his family's last name was originally Brandeau. Otherwise I guess he was just plain old American. Adam Bishop 06:08, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Adamson Act[edit]

Seems to have been passed by Woodrow Wilson, it is a labour act that paved the way for the eight hour work day. Mark Richards 23:46, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Jesus's or Jesus'[edit]

On many different Wikipedia pages, I have seen conflicting ways of showing a possessive Jesus: Jesus's or Jesus'. It may sound trivial, but I would assume rules of English would require it to be Jesus' and if that's true, what should I do if I find articles with the incorrect usage? (Should I edit them and mark them as spelling changes in the comments box?).

Thanks for any help. --Localizer 03:27, Jul 3, 2004 (UTC)

This is a "style" issue rather than a "rules of English" one. Neither spelling is wrong. But most people (and the Chicago Manual of Style (CMS)) follow the rule "form the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's." This includes proper nouns, including those ending in s, x, or z. So "Jesus's companions" is what CMS recommends. (An exception is in expressions such as "for Jesus' sake" or "for righteousness' sake" where the "s" is omitted when the noun ends in an s or an s sound.) The other alternative (simply omitting the possessive "s" on all words ending is "s", ("Maria Callas' singing") is not wrong, but it disregards ponunciation, seems unnatural to many, and is less common. But there's no "incorrect" usage going on here, so there's nothing to correct, and you can probably think of better ways to use your time!<g> - Nunh-huh 06:25, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Yes, both are right. However, I believe only "dogs' love" is correct, while "dogs's love" doesn't work. --Menchi 06:32, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The rules above are for possessive singulars. Possessive plurals usually are formed by adding only an apostrophe. as you note. -- Nunh-huh 06:40, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification. I guess I will have to come up with better excuses for meddling with things that don't need changing. --Localizer 06:53, Jul 3, 2004 (UTC)
I agree pretty much with what has been said, but I'll point you all in this direction: Elements of Style by William Strunk Jr.. It seems pretty authoritative despite being almost 90 years old. Note it says an exception is "Jesus'", so you were right after all, Localizer!--HamYoyo|TALK 09:28, Jul 3, 2004 (UTC)
CMS notes that the general rule is from Strunk, and rejects that exception. Again, this is a matter of style not "right" or "wrong". - Nunh-huh 18:21, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
What edition of CMS is that? The 13th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style gives Jesus' and Moses' as traditional exceptions to the rule of adding 's; also polysyllabic names ending in an unaccented -eez sound, like Euripides. It says that the University of Chicago Press prefers the formally logical rule without exceptions; but it leans over backwards not to be dogmatic about it, so "rejects" seems too strong. BTW, what do specifically English guides to English style say? Dandrake 08:08, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)
That's the 15th edition I was referring to. (5.26, 7.17, and particularly 7.22) - Nunh-huh 21:57, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It's a matter of personal taste, so long as one is used consistently in the article. The alt.english.usage FAQ suggests Jesus', but is uncharacteristically inconsistent in its own policy on this matter, using, for example, both Erasmus's and Erasmus' in the same paragraph!
One advantage of Jesus' over Jesus's is that it avoids "s" overkill. The rhythm of longer words can accustom the ear to the repetition, and can even render the additional sibilance satisfying e.g. "Sisyphus's stone", "Sassafras's bark" &c. However, shorter words don't always have this luxury: e.g. thesis' versus thesis's.
Common usage appears to overwhelmingly prefer Jesus' [37]
chocolateboy 14:43, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Surgical sutures[edit]

Sutures article says "absorbable sutures" are used within the body, whereas for closing external skin wounds "non-absorbable sutures" are used. Are there cases where absorbable sutures are used for external closures ? What are the pros and cons of this ? Jay 17:31, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Since I don't think we have a surgeon on board, I'll break one of my own rules about not posting speculation if someone else here probably has access to facts. As described in the article, the key characteristic of absorbable sutures is their ability to be dissolved by tissue enzymes. The two most important qualities for skin sutures are (1) that the wound not re-open before it is healed and (2) that the scar be as thin and subtle as possible. One of the advantages of removable sutures is that the time of removal is controlled-- the doctor can specify exactly when to remove them. Optimal timing to minimize scarring varies for skin of different parts of the body. Absorbable sutures do not have timed dissolution and so there is more potential variability as to when they disappear. The second thing that occurs to me (speculation) is that there may be a bit more inflammatory response to the foreign protein in some of the absorbable sutures. Inflammation can amplify scarring so if removable sutures are less antigenic it would represent a second potential way to reduce scarring. Alteripse 18:07, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • Not yet a surgeon but I can confirm this - the main reason for using non-absorbable sutures is to reduce scarring - the inflammatory response described by Alteripse will cause quite noticeable scarring with absorbables.--inks 13:10, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thanks Alteripse and Inkypaws, the inflammation and scarring part were missing in the article, so those can be added. However only 1/3rd of my question has been answered. The other two - are there cases where absorbable sutures are used externally and what are the Pros if any. I've copied over this discussion to talk:sutures, so can further discussions be made there? Jay 19:56, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Male watermelons[edit]

A colleague swears that in Russia there are 'male' and 'female' watermelons, and that you can tell the difference by looking at them. I understand there are male and female watermelon plants. Are there male and female fully grown watermelons? How to tell them apart?

A watermelon is a berry, thus it is formed from the female portion of the watermelon flower (the carpel) after the flower has been polinated. The male parts of the flower (stamen) do not form fruit. Therefore, there are no "male" watermelons. Gentgeen 20:35, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You can however buy cubic watermelons, or at least you could. There was a bit of an expensive fad for them in Japan in 2001. The are produced by surrounding the growing melons in a glass cube. The process is similar to that used for making Bonsai Kittens (possibly broken link). -- Solipsist 21:58, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Problems with the Random Page[edit]

It seems that often when I click the Random Page link I come to a short, dull article about an American town or county. Surely there must be an imbalance of stub pages on American local geography to other pages for them to be occuring so frequently?

The reason is that a while back (not sure exactly when) we had a bot add approximately 40,000 articles from US census data - that's about 1/7 of our database, as of this writing. →Raul654 04:45, Jul 4, 2004 (UTC)

The only real solution is to pack the database with interesting articles about other things. Go to it! Mark Richards 16:29, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A different solution would be to use the Category mechanism. I have been looking at modifying a bot to add appropriate categories to the small town and county pages. Then with appropriate changes to MediaWiki it might be possible to use user preferences to exclude certain categories from the random page selection. -- Solipsist 16:38, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

National flower of poland[edit]


  • It doesn't seem to have one. Do most nations???? In any case, this webpage claims there's an especial fondness for poppies...--Nunh-huh 04:49, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
    • I'll email him this, unless someone else has already. →Raul654 04:51, Jul 4, 2004 (UTC)

types of banjo[edit]

Banjo would be the best place to ask, or List of musical instruments. Jay 19:56, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

translation of "Schwedenfeuer" / "Finnenkerze"[edit]

i searched quite a bit but couldn't find a hint how to translate the German word "Schwedenfeuer" or in Swiss-German "Finnenkerze" .. probably this method of cutting/burning wood trunks is mainly known in the South German area and so only given a name there though i doubt it ..

here are some pictures how it looks like .. hope that someone knows the word :) tia ebricca

I'm Finnish and I've never heard of this before. You may just have to use the German words in italics followed by the literal translation in English in parentheses. Sorry not much help.--[[User:HamYoyo|Bendž

|Ť]] 12:48, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)

the only translation attempts i've come across are "Swedish wood block" and "Nordic woodglow" though both don't seem to be that optimal as they don't show up on google .. and i still think there might be a common name for "this kind of wood cut" in English (the idea is fine and so i don't think it only appears as name in the region of South Germany) .. as a second idea maybe the way over the French name may give something (my google search was here unf also not so promising) .. though in Canada it might be known or in the French region that adjects the South German one .. anyone ;) Ebricca 21:42, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Question about 2Step music...[edit]

While disambiguating occurences of the word beat, I came across 2Step, and I can't make heads or tails of what it's describing. Is the example wrong? The description? Can someone who knows the first thing about house music (I don't) have a look at it? grendel|khan 16:01, 2004 Jul 4 (UTC)

    • Found the same article, thought the same thing and swam back upstream to this comment. Yes it looks wrong to me. I am a D&B fan and the example looks like it was written by someone who can't count (fits the 2step to a three beat bar, making a weird two-step waltz or conversely fits 2 and 2/3 'step' beats to a standard four beat 'house' bar, creating a broken waltz). Would like others to look at it too so haven't changed it but have stuck a comment on the discussion page. - Uncle Fester 16 Nov 2004

what is marlon brando's ethnic background[edit]

The Marlon Brando article says, "Brando was born in the American heartland Omaha, Nebraska...He was of Dutch, French, English and Irish stock." — Matt 15:36, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What is a Cantilever Bridge[edit]

Is Little Belt Bridge (1935) a Cantilever bridge? I would think so but this page doesnt quite provide pictures that are alike enaugh. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 15:19, 2004 Jul 5 (UTC)

It looks like a standard girder bridge. A cantilever bridge would have more complex metalwork which would be taller above each pier, tapering to a minimum height between piers, with counterweights at the outer ends of the two outer spans. See the Forth Rail Bridge for an example. -- Heron 15:41, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Financial institution[edit]

Where is to be officially published as recommended information on bank/financial institution called" euro credit union servises, address: euro credit plaza, 4th floor, 73-75 great victoria street, Belfast BT2 7AF - Nothern Ireland, Sorry, I want to avoid scambank and would very greatful for yours assistance.

Yours Faithfully

Włodzimierz Stepków, tel/fax: 4822 7891251, email:

What an interesting question! Firstly, I must emphasise that Wikimedia Foundation is not authorised under UK financial services law to give any financial advice, and therefore it is unlawful for us to do so. The relevant authority is the Financial Services Authority, 24 The North Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London E14 5HS, they operate a customer helpline between 0800 and 2000 UK time, Monday to Friday on +44 20 7066 1000. Their website is
That said, I did a search on the FSA register, and could not find any institution registered at postcode BT2 7AF since late 2001. Looking at the website you quote, I am slightly concerned that the telephone numbers they give are in the 0774 range, which is in the area normally allocated to mobile phones (see UK_telephone_numbering_plan#Nongeographic_numbering), rather than a Belfast geographical telephone number. -- Arwel 20:17, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

How to ...[edit]

Not quite sure what Village Pump catagory this request fits in, the descriptive seems best matched here @ the reference desk, so here goes :

Ok, here?s the dilemma: How do I/we do an entry for ?Humanure?.

A critically important concept, I do believe, as an understanding of the waste, negligence and abuse of our only home Earth, as set forth by Joseph Jenkins in The Humanure Handbook, will likely impart, the word Humanure is a noun and as such has a limited potential for a descriptive of what the focus entails.

Me, I?m not much of a word monger, certainly not when I?m out of my league ( I try, anyways )so I?m asking for help.


humanure Click on the new entry link to the left and it will offer you a chance to enter text and save it. Try a couple of sentences, save it, and come back out here and you will see that the link has changed color and (by a process of technology so advanced it is indistinguishable from magic) and has become a real article. Add some more text and put your web link at the bottom of the new article. Some other people will probably set up some redirects from sewage and manure because of the unusual article term. Happy stinky editing. Alteripse 16:38, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Aethiest animal rights activists[edit]

Is there any officially aethiest animal rights activists organization? Elpenmaster

Not sure if it counts as an "organization", but I was surprised to learn that there is Atheists for Animal Rights. I'm not sure that they consist of more than one individual with a website. As far as large organizations like PETA, they are independant of organized religion as far as I know, but I imagine that they accept people of any religion, as long as they agree with the organization's views on animal rights! The RSPCA, an animal welfare (as distinct from animal rights) organization in the United Kingdom was apparently founded by an Anglican clergyman, but is not a part of the church.
One of the philosophers whose work greatly inspired the animal rights movements, Peter Singer, is well-known for his atheism and his work heavily critiques the philosophies of the monotheistic religions and their ethical distinction between the treatment of humans and non-human animals. --Robert Merkel 07:56, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

need info about fmri[edit]

Dear Sirs

I am starting a novel with fmri and the nervous system as main components. I need to speak to someone who could answer a few hypothetical questions about how these could potentially be used. If you have someone who wouldn't mind swapping some emails, please get in touch. I would be grateful for any help/ideas you could offer.

Tara Allen-- 15:09, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well, folks here are always open to discussing random questions, fire away! Mark Richards 16:43, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Supply and Demand question[edit]

Moved to Wikipedia:Reference Desk from Wikipedia:Village Pump

In Supply and Demand#Elasticity, it says "So, if the price moves from $1.00 to $1.05, and the quantity supplied goes from 100 pens to 102 pens, the slope is -2/-0.05 or 38 pens per dollar. Since the elasticity depends on the percentages, the quantity of pens increased by 2%, and the price increased by 5%, so the elasticity is 2/5 or 0.4." Could someone explain this better?

The price for what exactly? for 102 pens, or for individual pens? How does it become 38 pens in a dollar? I'm totally confused!!! - Ta bu shi da yu 12:23, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The price referred to is the price per pen.
38 pens per dollar is not a price, but a measure of the how many more pens get supplied (produced), per dollar of (per-pen) price increase; that is why slope (of the supply vs price curve) is mentioned.
(There is supply elasticity and demand elasticity; this case is the supply kind.)
You may want to ask another question after walking thru the math. --Jerzy(t) 01:51, 2004 Jul 7 (UTC)
I think I see now. Thanks Jerzy! - Ta bu shi da yu 05:15, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

parton in particle physics[edit]

Can someone write an article on parton? The word seems to be used a lot in particle physics. I appreciate the information I find in Wikipedia, but parton is still not in the vocabulary.

You should take this to wikipedia:requested articles. This page is for specific questions needing specific answers.--[[User:HamYoyo|Bendž

|Ť]] 13:05, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)

Never mind, I've added it to Requested Articles for you. -- Heron 09:02, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

TV ratings[edit]

How do they measure television ratings (i.e. number of viewers for a particular show)? --Jiang 05:00, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Using Nielsen Ratings, apparently. — Matt 05:13, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
What Matt said. Ratings are obtained by randomly selecting a pool of subjects (people who watch TV), sending them a book of TV/Radio shows so they can indicate what they were watching when. Once the book is filled in it's sent back, usually participants go into the draw for a prize. --inks 13:04, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

On a related note, how does one know the viewership count for a particular program, like the Oscars or the soccer world cup ? Jay 19:56, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You don't;) You can never really know how many people watched it, but you can get a raugh estimate by polling. Gallup for example does that, they call pseudo-random people of pseudo-random age and ask them what they were watching at each time. Of course this is higly inaccurate like all polls. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 22:01, 2004 Jul 7 (UTC)
From what I understood, the Nielsen corp randomly selects. They pay them some amount a month, and in exchange, they wire that person's house with a box that tracks TV usage. Every night, the box dials home and dumps the data. →Raul654 22:13, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)

Of course, one wonders whether being watched affects someone's viewing habits, or whether they report accurately. In a recent media survey of all media (print, tv, radio, internet) not one person spent any time looking at porn. ;) Mark Richards 16:29, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

In the UK measurements are taken by BARB - sorry, dunno what it stands for - and they have a black box attached to 13,000 viewers homes that tells them what's been watched. I think the family either have a controller or record who in the family was watching the telly when it was on. I was pretty sure it was done this way in the States since an episode of Roseanne had them being signed up as a Nielsen family. Roseanne: We're not watching any of that game show rubbish now we're a Nielsen family. It's documentaries all the way. No white trash TV!. --bodnotbod 00:29, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

copyright of a object in a image x copyright of the image of an object[edit]


1-there is a old document like the Voynich manuscript. It is free to public, but what about a picture of it? Can I just pick any image from other websites and upload in the wikipedia? Is there a diffrence wheter its a plain scan or a photograph?

2-If I take a picture of a copyrighted object, like a shoe, in a white baclground, do I own the image right? Can i upload it to any copyleft community? Is there a diffrence wheter there's a logo on it? What if i photograph a building then?

--Zero00 01:37, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • To spectulate, with 1) pictures acceptable as long as its mainly used to show the text of the manuscript, not to portray it in some setting. With 2) laws vary between countries as to ownership of copyright. Someone who knows more will no doubt correct me :) --inks 01:44, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • Lots of places (like claim to hold copyrights to pictures which would have long expired if the copyright was just held to the date the picture was taken. Some websites say "Scan (c) Joe Shmoe" which seems ridiculous to me -- suddenly I own a copyright on an reproduction of an image just because I scanned it? Of course not. Which is to say, I don't have a clue, I'd love it if someone would elaborate on this. Corbis says that a picture they have of Mark Twain (who died in 1910) is © Bettmann/CORBIS, and clearly sells "image use" (at a high price, too). So what exactly am I paying for? If I have an original photo, can I scan it and suddenly get control over its subsequent image use? Does that apply ONLY to that scan of it? How could I prove someone was using MY scan in a court of law (assuming they removed the digital signature or whatever it is Corbis uses)? How is that they are capable of selling pictures which were obviously taken by the US government (such as all of their American nuclear weapons tests pictures)? --Fastfission 03:23, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
    • With regards to "...suddenly I own a copyright on an reproduction of an image just because I scanned it? Of course not...". IIRC, New Zealand law says that your copyright to a work is created when the work is created, I suppose in theory if you were authorised to copy it, you would hold copyright to the copy in the new medium, and so you could contest anyone else copying it to the same medium that you just copied it to. --inks 06:02, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
    • I doubt this last part. After all, a copyright is not a patent, but the right to control who makes copies of your work. So, nobody is allowed to copy your scan without your permission, but that doesn't keep anybody from doing a scan himself. Clearer example. You make a picture of a statue, and you than have copyright to it (after all, the photo contains not only the artists work -the staute- but also your proper intellectual work: the lighting, the perspective etc.). Somebody else may still take a picture, but with his angle and lighting etc. (It won't be exactly the same ever again, anyway.). But, of course, IANAL. Simon A. 21:10, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

IANAL either...

In the United States, copyright attaches to a particular copy, and applies anew to "derivative works", which includes copies. The clock starts ticking as soon as the work is "fixed". This means that if you scan a published book that's in the public domain, your scan is copyrighted by you on the date of the scan, but anyone can use their own copy of the book (or the same one, if they have access to it) and make their own scan. This is how private companies can claim copyright to public domain works, like laws and US government photos. Also note that many photos and other works that appear to belong to the US government (which by US law cannot hold copyrights, except those assigned to it by non-government authors) were actually taken by contractors (whether private companies or freelancers or universities), who *can* hold copyrights. US law also grants some additional protections to *collections* or databases, which may apply to a private image library.

Say Alice and Bob each have made their own scan. Can Alice go on the web and download Bob's scan and sell it on the street? No, even though she has her own scan - even if they are exactly the same right down to the pixel. Is it easy for Bob to prove that the scans Alice is selling are his? No, but that's what I understand the law says. Copyright here depends on historical lineage, not on content, so multiple people can have copyright on functionally identical documents in the same medium. It is certainly OK to take your own picture of a public domain work and copyleft it or donate it to Wikipedia.

With regard to taking a picture of a copyrighted book, it's much *less* likely to be OK if you can see the text of the book in the photo, since the text, not the design of the enclosure, is what's copyrighted. You'd probably want to ask a lawyer about what the case law on "fair use" says about the particular use you want to make of the picture before proceeding. Wikipedia's licensing terms are complex, and it's possible that would be OK to distribute such a picture for free online, but if anyone printed the encyclopedia and tried to sell it, that wouldn't be OK. Or maybe both uses would fall into the fuzzy category news reporting; I'm not sure.

In some cases, US copyright law treats digital and analog *music* differently; I'm not sure about images. The differences, if any, may be obscure enough not to matter for your purposes. Consult a lawyer if you want to be sure.

Shoes, in as much as they are "useful articles", are not protected by copyright law. The designs of useful things are protected by patent law, with which I am not familiar. A picture drawn on the side of a shoe, or other artistic aspects may be protected by copyright law, however. Logos may be protected by both copyright and trademark law. I am not familiar with trademark law, either. If you want to publish a picture of a shoe with a logo on it completely on the up-and-up, it would be advisable to consult with a lawyer. The answer might depend on the context of publication, and publication in an encyclopedia is more likely to be OK than some purely commercial or non-documentary use, but you never know.

As far as I know, you can publish without restriction a picture of a shoe (even a patented shoe) if you've taken that picture yourself and the shoe has no identifiable trademark or copyrighted symbols (like artwork or text or whatever).

I know sometimes US state privacy and likeness-rights laws restrict what you can do with pictures you've taken of people without their permission, so be careful about doing that.

With regard to buildings, the US Copyright Office FAQ says:

Does copyright protect architecture?
Yes. Architectural works became subject to copyright protection on Dec. 1, 1990. The copyright law defines "architectural work" as "the design of a building embodied in any tangible medium of expression, including a building, architectural plans, or drawings." Copyright protection extends to any architectural work created on or after Dec. 1, 1990. Also, any architectural works that were unconstructed and embodied in unpublished plans or drawings on that date and were constructed by Dec. 31, 2002, are eligible for protection. Architectural designs embodied in buildings constructed prior to Dec. 1, 1990, are not eligible for copyright protection. See Circular 41, Copyright Claims in Architectural Works.

See also Copyright and Wikipedia:Copyrights. Someone may want to integrate this information into these or other articles.

--Beland 07:31, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

IANAL either but let me explain tradmark law simply. The intent of a trademark is to allow a company to mark a product as theirs. As such, it is illegal to use the trademark in a way that could cause a product to be misrepresented as that company's product. Sometimes it is illegal to *not* show the trademark, i.e., if you tried to claim the product was yours. In general, the use of the trademark is up to the owner, and they (in US law at least) are required to protect their trademark by restricting its use. If they fail to do so, they can lose the trademark as it comes into general use for a purpose other than representing their product. Big companies tend to vigorously protect their trademarks (since Klenex lost theirs anyway). There have been many cases where people have placed company trademarks on websites and gotten letters about it. Sometimes the company will allow it--especially if it is used correctly. Sometimes they will require its removal. More frequently, they will allow it in context AFTER you get permission. The key here is that by requiring you to ask permision, they fufull their legal obligation to restrict its use, and thus preserve their use of it. Obviously, a company will be unhappy if you cast their product in a bad light, and may ask you to remove the trademark in that case even if you are using it correctly. --ssd 05:06, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)



What is gluvine?

A Swiss or Austrian type of mulled wine. -- Heron 08:15, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It's a German word, and it's spelled gluhwein. --Gelu Ignisque
yes, but with an "umlaut" ;) - glühwein -- 15:05, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Heh, I didn't know that?I was only familiar with the word as it has been imported into English, which happens to be without the umlaut. ;-) --Gelu Ignisque
Just enhanced the Glühwein article, so see there. Simon A. 21:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No matter how you spell it, GLUVINE is AWESOME

From PDA checking application[edit]

how to write PDA checking program to enhance existing program? e.g. existig PDA program can perform food order wirelessly then how to write new program to enhance the program to check before order was sending, to check whether the food ready, to check whether the food available, to check whether the food is selling today and so...

thanks... Xman

Your question doesn't make much sense to me... if you want to change an existing program, get the source code and go ahead. You might want to read some books on the specific programming language. -- stw (Talk) 14:57, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Coconut (Robber) Crab

What is the crab with the strongest pincer grip? --Gelu Ignisque

Do you mean the absolutely strongest, or the strongest relative to its size? Mark Richards 21:20, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I mean the one strongest in absolute terms; i.e., the one capable of doing the most damage to a human it pinches. --Gelu Ignisque

I would hazard a guess that it would be the coconut crab, or robber crab. They get bigger than 3 feet from head to tail and can weigh 40 pounds, they use their pincers to open coconuts. We don't appear to have an article about it though. It is huge, and endangered, apparently because people like to eat them. Here is a site that has a photo that is apparently public domain [38]. Mark Richards 02:14, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I uploaded the image (can someone check it and see if you agree with my interpretation, thanks!) here it is:

I think that between the image, the Web sites cited here, and this Reference Desk question, we have enough material for a stub ... If I didn't need to go right now, I'd create it myself. --Gelu Ignisque
I couldn't resist and created the article. Pretty long one, lots of info. Needs some copyedit, however, to smoothen out the wording. -- Chris 73 | Talk 12:11, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Great work Chris - do any of our crab enthusiasts want to take a look at Japanese spider crab? I will sometime, but probably not this week. Mark Richards 20:46, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sunny von Bulow[edit]

Is Sunny von Bulow still on life support?? Thanks.

According to Dead or Alive? Sunny von Bulow is still alive in a coma. According to she was taken off life support (except feeding) within a couple of months after the onset of the permanent coma, and she breathed on her own. So she is apparently still alive, and supported by tube feedings, but not ventilation. Alteripse 20:50, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Difference between "Shots on goal" and "Shots on target" (Soccer)[edit]

Can anyone explain the difference between "Shots on goal" and "Shots on target" in soccer to me? I'm trying to translate the Stat-Page (comp. Talk:2004 European Championship (match stats)) Thx. -- 14:13, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • "Shots on goal" means a shot which was intended as a shot on goal to score, but never made the target.
  • "Shots on target" means a shot which was intended as a shot on goal to score, and hit the target area. It could've bounced off the framework, been saved by the goalkeeper or ultimately entered the goal.
ok, thanks a lot :) -- 11:17, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What was the ALLIED RIBBON awarded by Britain in WW II?[edit]

I have the documents for a WW II American fighter pilot (2nd Air Commandos) who was authorized a British ALLIED RIBBON by the Briish 14th Army Div. No one seems to know what it was (Spink, etc). Too, the British 14th Army Div authorized the same pilot a BURMA STAR service medal. How come American troops were authorized British medals??? Both of the above are noted as being "issued."

Where can I go to find the answer? British 14th Army archives? (address?) ANY HELP MUCHLY APPRECIATED

Vernon Brook =-email

tax rate, bracket, revenue[edit]

Kaihsu 21:34, 2004 Jul 9 (UTC): I wonder and would like to see tables (and graphs where appropriate):

In the 20th century (100-year period) or the post-War era (circa 60-year period), in the United Kingdom (other countries are interesting as well, but I try to be specific)

  1. What is relationship between the (income) tax rate and the revenue (perhaps I should ask: revenue due to income tax)?
  2. How is the population distributed amongst the tax brackets?

Let me know at my talk page if you have the answer, please; perhaps even create a subpage thereof. Thanks.

  *  *  *


Kaihsu 11:34, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC):

National Statistics: Social Inequalities: Income Gaps in income and wealth remain large

The extent of inequality in the income distribution has changed considerably over the last three decades. However, between 1994/95 and 2002/03 the income distribution was broadly stable. Disposable income (adjusted for inflation) grew by over a fifth for both those on incomes at the top of the distribution (90th percentile) and those at the lower end (10th percentile).

Published on 7 December 2004 at 9:30 am

  *  *  *

Inland Revenue: Income Tax Statistics and Distributions

T2.1 - Number of individual income taxpayers

Offset focus on a parabola.[edit]

I am a math dolt who is trying to design a parabolic solar energy collector with an offset focus. The offset focus is desirable to get the heated object out of the way of the sun so all of the collected energy can be used for heat. I don't know where your answer will be posted. Please forward an answer to

I've e-mailed him to say any answer will be posted right here. — Chameleon My page/My talk 14:09, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Actually an offset focus is quite common with smaller satellite receiver dishes. The basic idea is to imagine a larger parabolic reflector, place the receiver (or in this case collector) at the normal focus, but only build one half (or less) of the main reflector. You can find an example about half way down this page and it looks like this site has some software to help with the maths.
An offset focus is used in two telescope designs:- the Schiefspiegler telescope and the Yolo telescope. However, these both use a secondary reflector to bring the focus back to the base of the telescope for convenience. These designs have some advantage in image quality by not having the secondary mirror on axis, but are a little harder to design. Unfortunately we don't have articles on either of them yet. -- Solipsist 18:52, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Vandiveer family disappearance[edit]

On Google if you do a search with (Taswell +Messamore). You get this long spooky article that my family was involved in in the 1940's. But it's the only reference anywhere on the web about it. Since I live on the west coast I was wondering if there is any more information about it anywhere that isn't local? I'm not going there anytime soon and even there the written data must be scarce.

I suggest you contact the local library for the area and ask them if they have press cuttings of the time. I can find nothing else online. Secretlondon 12:59, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Customs laptop swab[edit]

I recently went through Canadian customs, returning to England from Canada, and they took a tiny little swab of the top and bottom of my laptop. That was all. Didn't even ask me to open it up. I didn't question it in case they got suspicious and found the drugs I'd hidden in the floppy drive, but does anyone have any ideas as to what this is for? It doesn't seem like it could reveal much. --Chopchopwhitey 13:08, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I would guess they were looking for residue from handling high explosives. Did you see any of the other testing kit, which might look something like this. -- Solipsist 14:05, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Definitely testing for explosives. I've seen airports in USA do the same thing to carry-on baggage before, and gave me that explanation. I've even offered to open it up and just let them look inside: "No thanks, this will do, thanks though." --Fastfission 01:14, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Vacuum pressure contol[edit]

I used to use a device called a " cartesian diver" to controll the vacuum pressure on a distillation still ,to separart organic compounds. Where can I find a drawing of this apperatus? I have been amaised at what I have found about its name sake , using your system. You people are the greatest. Charles D. Cox , if I may be of some help.

Thanks for visiting, Charles. I have added your request to our Wikipedia:Requested pictures page. -- Heron 11:52, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Word Creation techniques, analogies[edit]

Can the creator of this question please clarify? --Ardonik 23:39, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Campaign spending[edit]

I would like sources for finding out how much the U.S. presidential campaigns are spending in each state (e.g. $24 million in Florida, etc.). What's the best source for this type of information? Thanks, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 19:17, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think this information is explicitly available by state. The Federal Elections Commission ( seems to have masses of scanned receipts, but no mechanism for summarising statewise expenditure. There's also, which has a significantly nicer interface. They provide lists of what each candidate has spent (recipient, amount, date); [39] is Bush, and [40] is Kerry. It might just have to be a matter of scanning through these with some handy computer program. Note that a lot of the items here don't represent statewise campaign expenditure as such: there are payments to ad agencies in one state for ads that might be shown in another, transfers between different campaign organisations, etc., all listed together. Perhaps contacting the individual campaigns would be more effective? --AlexG 22:19, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

XP in British English[edit]

Do people in the UK simply uses Windows in American English? (Does it bother Brits?) Or does a British dialect version of Windows actually exist? --Menchi 20:11, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

At the risk of expressing great anti-Americanism, I must say that the narrow-minded, monopoly-building, power-obsessed, technically-incompetent Yank pricks of Redmond release everything nicely localised for just about every country in the world except in the English versions of their stuff, which they appear (as far as I can tell from every bit of software I have of theirs) to make a point of making as American as possible. If Longhorn came with a default desktop background with a picture of an apple pie, a baseball, a statue of liberty looking angrily at twin smoking towers, and the slogan "one nation under God Bill", I wouldn't be surprised. I think most people in the UK, Australia, etc don't really notice (in the same way people generally don't notice spelling mistakes), but for a minority of us, it's yet another reason why we'd like to give him a kick in the balls. Personally, I have XP in Italian. — Chameleon My page/My talk 20:55, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It's localised in that it defaults to dates, money, paper sizes, keyboard layout etc in UK rather than US conventions but otherwise it's all 'color', 'favorites' etc. Mac OS was available in other Englishes until 8.6, (eg the Trash was a 'Wastebasket') then it went to International English, which Apple interestingly consider to be exactly the same as US English. As for being bothered, it is irksome but the internet means US spellings are increasingly common anyway. Both have had an influence on general orthography here eg nobody being able to discern between license and licence anymore. adamsan 21:07, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You will occaisionally come across a joke email suggesting that there is a version of Windows for Geordies (inhabitants in and around Newcastle upon Tyne with a notoriously challenging accent). See for example this site (warning mildly vulgar). However, that is for Windows 2000 - it is not clear that there is an XP edition.
Heh-heh. I've seen that joke for several dialects in different languages. — Chameleon My page/My talk 17:22, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
... nobody being able to discern between license and licence anymore - or able to spell "any more" correctly any more :-) -- Picapica 21:32, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC) (another smartarse)

femoes' important question[edit]

How would you happen to cite this website. I need it for a works cited page on a research paper

Check out Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. If this is for a school project, you should ask a teacher for guidance as well, as teachers often have a preferred style they want you to use -- and you have no way of knowingwa at style is unless you ask! (P.S. Make sure you "cite" references rather than "site" them in anything you turn in!) - Nunh-huh 02:04, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You might also want to check with your teacher before you cite any reference material such as an encyclopedia, dictionary, etc. They may not want you to cite such sources, unless your paper includes a direct quote from one. More importantly, if you have a certain required minimum number of works cited, they may not allow reference material to count towards that. To be safe, cite it anyway, but don't count it towards your minimum. Triskaideka 06:19, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What is Marlon Brando's ethnic background?[edit]

This question has been asked here twice this month already. I suspect the answer hasn't changed much... -- Solipsist 06:42, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Define Trinidad cusine[edit]

Cuisine of Trinidad. — Chameleon My page/My talk 17:22, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Cuisine in general is food and drink representative of local diversity in ethnic and cultural traditions and is usually exclusively characteristic of the region. In the case of Trinidad, its food is indicative of the blends of Asian, Creole, Indian, Italian and Lebanese gastronomic influences. A main dish from Trinidad is callaloo, a creamy and spicy spinach soup. The creaminess and spiciness is usually attributed to the local Indian population while the use of spinach is typically from the Italian heritage of the islands. --Gerald Farinas 17:37, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Joshua Barney Memorial.[edit]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for information about the Commodore Joshua Barney memorial which is located in the Fort Lincoln Cemetery in Bladensburg, Maryland. I also think that I heard from another resource, that there is a Commodore Joshua Barney foundation. Does anyone know anything about this foundation. I believe that the memorial was dedicated on July 6th 1984. I don't think that the Fort Lincoln Cemetery has an active website. Can anyone give me some more information about this memorial.

Thank you Stephen H.

There seems to be plenty of good info in Google --inks 21:26, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Peace Cross Memorial.[edit]

I am looking for information about the Peace memorial which is located in Bladensburg, Maryland at the intersection of Route 1 and Annoplis Road. Visitors can't miss it, as it is at the center crossway. I would like to find some historic information about this monument, if it is possible. I am looking to find information that might be able to be sent to me. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciate it.

Thank you Stephen H.

  • Evidently, someone (was it you, Stephen?) posted a very similar question to the chief rival of the Wikipedia Reference Desk Google Answers and received a response here. Just posting for completeness. --Ardonik 02:02, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)


When I look at some clouds, I notice that their undersides are flat. Not hugely flat, mind, but compared to the fluffiness of their tops, their bases appear to be very smooth. Why is this?

I'm not a meteorologist, but I have a theory. Assuming the relative humidity is constant in an air mass, clouds form at a particular temperature: the dew point. As one rises in the atmosphere, normally (except in the case of a thermal inversion) the temperature decreases, at a rate called the lapse rate. This is generally pretty constant over an area so the cloud starts at approximately the same altitude.
This doesn't explain very well why the tops of clouds aren't flat though. Really, only cumulus clouds tend to have bumpy tops. Stratus clouds don't. Cumulus clouds tend to exist in areas with turbulent air, that is, there's a lot of updrafts, downdrafts, etc. Maybe that has something to do with it? moink 00:27, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I am not a meteorologist either, but i am a glider pilot and we notice clouds. Your theory about the level base of clouds is, I believe, pretty much right. I don't know about the top of a cloud, but i do know that when a cloud is no longer 'working' (i.e. there is not longer a signficant updraft underneath it) the top and edges often become 'wispy' instead of 'fluffy'. DJ Clayworth 05:47, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Fidel Castro?: "Organization of American States is the USA's colonial office"[edit]

I am trying to find whether Fidel Castro actually said something to the effect that "Organization of American States is the USA's colonial office". Help?! -- Kaihsu 21:41, 2004 Jul 12 (UTC)


This could help: Mark Richards 23:13, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Windows Media File Help[edit]

One of my favourite sites, The All Music Guide has been hyping itself for ages about a complete overhaul and modernisation of its content and display. This has now taken place with the marvellous result that it is now all but unusable if you do not have broadband. (I don't).

Still, one occasionally will sit through the frustratingly long loading times to get at the sound clips. Now, my question is: as it stands my Windows Media Player won't play the clips. To be honest, I don't really want it to. I've got Jet Audio which I had set up to play .wma files. However, clicking on AllMusic's links to the samples (represented by one of those little speaker icons) brings up a (non-functioning) Windows Media Player client.

So, (pauses for breath) does anyone know how I might be able to get the samples to play in Jet Audio? --bodnotbod 12:04, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

This sounds like a codex issue. You might want to either: 1. Make sure you are using the most recent wma codex, if you are, then any player that will use it should play wma files, there are several open source ones. Or, 2. download the most recent version of Windows Media Player. This will include the codex, and Jet Audio should use it if it is available. Let me know if that helps, Mark Richards 15:22, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
How exactly (where?) does one download a new codex? Rhymeless 20:05, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The easiest way is to download Windows Media Player's latest version. Otherwise you can look for the codex you need on the internet, there are some open source and free ones for wma files. I would not really want to recomend a particular one though, since I don't know what setup Bod has. Installing random codeces can cause random problems. There are a few complilations that you can find, mainly on Linux sites. If there is some ethical issue around downloading the latest WMP and you can't figure this out I could take a look and see if I can find the right package. Mark Richards 20:13, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC) This is probably the best bet: wm9 codex. Mark Richards 20:15, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's called a codec (plural codecs). -- Heron 12:45, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Quite right. Thank you - COding, DECoding. Not a large dusty tome that is difficult to handle. Of course, you can understand the confusion. Mark Richards 14:46, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Bah! I downloaded the codec but Microsoft won't let me install it unless I download the whole Windows Media Player 7.0 too. No wonder the world hates them. I think I'll just do without the sound clips... I've always found that - regardless of how I set up my preferences in WMP and other apps - WMP always finds a way of popping up and hijacking my mp3s etc. Bloody thing. --bodnotbod 23:04, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

fixing up plain text files[edit]

I was just wondering if there is any simple way to jazz up plain text files (e.g. from Project Gutenberg) and turn them into nice clean readable PDF flies without fooling around with Word in between. Thanks for any help Mjklin 12:47, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC).

Well, it all depends on what you mean by simple... You certainly don't have to use Word, but I suspect that's not what you mean. You (or someone familiar with it!) could write something in LaTeX that would take a PG text and add basic formatting to it. Is that what you had in mind? There are several open source packages that will make PDFs for you. Mark Richards 15:30, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Any recommendations? --Menchi 08:24, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
There's txt2tex and txt2latex on CTAN. The first does fancy formatting but doesn't seem to fix up paired quotation marks, which annoys me; the second is more minimal but does get quotes right. Then you can use pdfLaTeX to make the pdf, or LaTeX anddvipdfm or something. Lupin 08:50, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Basel Paris RR[edit]

Can you tell me if the above train ran continuously during WW1 and 2? Thanks. I need this information for a book that I am writing.

Jeanette Fusco

wild speculation about WWII: generally Swiss borders stayed open so trains probably ran for most of the War, but there was a war on and that line would clearly cross the front at times, so there would definitely have been breaks in travel (e.g. when the allies had occupied Paris, but hadn't got to the Eastern part of France). That means there must have been breaks for some periods of time. Further, the allies went in for bombing rail lines at times when they might be supplying German forces, and that will have almost certainly caused breaks. I think you probably need a more specific question (when was the line out of service) and the best place to get the answer would be from Switzerland in government and/or railway records.

Reference Desk User Survey[edit]

Hi all. I am a library and information science student who is interested in how people use the Wikipedia Reference Desk to ask and answer questions. If you ask questions, answer questions or simply read the posts here, please fill out my short survey (URL below). All answers are confidential and will only be used for my study of the WP Reference Desk and online reference services. Please feel free to leave questions or comments on my talk page (and please let me know before deleting or moving this posting). Survey URL

Thank you very much --Brassratgirl 19:29, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Are you going to share the results with us? I think they'll be interesting. moink 17:05, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Sure thing! I'm going to give it a couple days as I'm giving a presentation on it this week, and then will post the results (probably a summary here and the full report on my talk page). So far 16 people have replied; thank you, everyone! And please take the survey if you haven't already :-) --Brassratgirl 20:04, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mare Tranquillitatis with two L's[edit]

The official name seems to be Mare Tranquillitatis with two Ls.

Can any Latin scholars out there confirm that it's supposed to have two L's? -- Curps 21:38, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yep. — Chameleon My page/My talk 23:24, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Tranquility is American, and tranquillity is British, according to two dictionaries and two usage guides that I just consulted. -- Heron 19:46, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Tranquilitas is also a medieval variant of the classical Latin word (double letters frequently collapse to one, and diphthongs collapse too, it's extremely aggravating :)). On Google you get almost as many hits with one L as you do with two, but official sites (NASA, etc) use two Ls. Adam Bishop 18:19, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

bones and nutrition[edit]

Why is it that sometimes when you move (and quite frequently with some folks) do your bones or joints click when you move. I've heard this is a nutritional deficiency - but I'm intrigued to know the whys and causes. Helen. 21:39, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The precise cause is unknown (no scientist would ever get funding to investigate it). We sectulate it could be air bubbles forming and collpasing in the potential space in the joint, among other things. However, I doubt very much this is due to nutritional problems.--inks 02:27, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I've heard it's because of air bubble as well. I'm fairly certain it's not because of nutrient defienciency, because overweight people can do it too. --Menchi 08:15, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
(Although it is quite possible and not uncommon for obese people to be definicient in certain nutrients.) Lupin 08:34, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Carlsbad public records[edit]

I will be in Carlsbad on Aug. 17-20. My mother was born on August 6, 1919 in Carlsbad and lived there for several years. If any records exist on my mother or grandparents, I would like to be able to access them while I am visiting. Can you advise me where I could obtain birth records as well as possible addresses and other family information.

Carlsbad alone isn't enough information. Carlsbad, California? Carlsbad, New Mexico? some other Carlsbad? I'm going to guess New Mexico, just because it has the caverns. Statewide recording of births and death began in New Mexico in 1920. Statewide Vital Records can be accessed through the New Mexico Health and Environment Department, Health Services Division, Vital Statistics Office, 1190 St. Francis, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87503. Call them. Calling ahead is your best bet on getting things done. There are microfilmed Federal Census Schedules available for 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930. Probate Records are at the courts. See if you can find the "New Mexico Genealogoical Society" in Albuquerque (or better yet, online) and ask them where to look. Contact the Carlsberg Library. Carlsberg is in Eddy County, which was formed in 1889 and has marriage records from 1895. Its court is District #5, and has land records from 1884, probate records from 1912. County Address is P.O. Box 850, Carlsbad 88221. The Eddy County Genealogical Society (some time ago their address was P.O. Box 451, Carlsbad, NM 882220) may be helpful. Anyway, there's a start. The more research you do up front the more you'll be able to accomplish when you get there. -- Nunh-huh 07:06, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Telephone keypad[edit]

I want to know the function of the following keys found commonly on the telephone keypad.

*, #, Mute, Pause, Flash

Bharath 10:17, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

*, #, no extra functionality (afaik) apart from being "special" indicators for dialing menu services and for special-function features (such as last number dialled etc).
mute - mutes the ringer?
Pause, Flash - for PABX type systems, don't know the details. Call Waiting in Australia uses Flash to switch between calls...
Dysprosia 10:25, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Concur with Dysprosia. Flash is used to pick up a call if you have call waiting, Pause is another name for the "Hold" function. The # key is usually used to indicate the end of a long series of numbers. --inks 10:32, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

These are usually programable. They simply produce tones on your phone, what they do depends on what the exchange is programmed to do with them, and that is somewhat standard, but not always. Internal office exchanges sometimes program them weirdly, and phone companies sometimes use them for special features like call waiting etc. The mute button sometimes turns to microphone off I think. Mark Richards 14:51, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mute simply makes the microphone not work (so you can make cheap asides to friends in the room), where pause mutes both the microphone and the speaker (most useful for sleeping during dull teleconferences). Both of these functions are simple electrical functions, confined to your telephone itself (that is, nothing is sent on the line to the exchange). * and # are dialled, just like 0-9 (more on dialling momentarily) - that is, they result in a tone/pattern being sent down the line to the exchange. Flash is a stranger and more interesting beast. First a primer on how a plain old telephone works - it's simply two wires (which telcospeak calls "the pair" and latterly "the local loop") connected to a relay and some electrical gubbins (in telco "the main distribution frame") down at the telephone exchange (telco: "the central office" or "C.O."). Wired to this is your telephone (telco: "customer premises equipment" or simply "CPE"). A CPE consists of a microphone and a little speaker (and a clever thingy called a "hybrid" of which we won't talk further). Also in the CPE is a single switch - it's that thing that's underneath the handset, and it's called "the hook switch". When you hang up, the phone is "on hook" and the hookswitch is closed. When you pick up, the phone is "off hook" and the hookswitch is open. When the hookswitch is open the microphone and the loudspeaker (and the hybrid) are connected to the pair, and thus to the MDF in the CO. In this mode, sounds are tranfered across the pair to the operator (more of her later) or to the remote party. When you go on hook, the CPE directly attaches the two wires of the pair together (without the usual load of the microphone) - essentially a short circuit. Now consider an old fashioned manual exchange (you know - nice lady sitting at a big plugboard with a headset on, plugging wires in and out). This (telco: "manual branch exchange" or "MBE" - the manual precusor of the automatic MDF) features a little lamp which is lit when a customer's pair is offhook, a lamp that's extinguished when a relay in the MBE sees the CPE's hookswitch close. So to make a call a customer would go offhook; this makes the corresponding lamp light; the operator plugs her headset into a special socket beside the lamp; the customer tells the operator the number he wants; the operator makes the call (a more envolved procedure which we needn't go into). When the customer is finished, he hangs up, making his lamp go out - at this point the operator should (eventually) notice and pull out her patchcable. Now think back to those old Films Noir, where someone is cut off at a climactic moment - they panic and feverishly thrash the hookswitch open and closed repeatedly. This makes the lamp on the operator's board flash, hopefully attracting her attention. So closing then opening the hookswitch is called "flashing the hook" or simply "flashing". In manual days, flashing had no meaning, and no effect other than to attract the operator's attention. Now let's consider the first automatic exchanges, the electro-mechanical exchanges. These support automatic dialling, where flashing the hook opens a relay which fires a solenoid which moves a sizeable metal thing down one notch. Flash it three times in close succession (and then wait for a little cap to discharge) moves the metal thing down three notches, and counts as a dialled number "3". That's how a rotary dial works - dial a three and it makes three little pins flash the hook (and yes, a zero is ten flashes). This is called "pulse dialling". But you can still pulse dial with just the hookswitch, if your timing is in. Doing so is an old jailhouse trick - where you tell the guard the number you want to dial, he dials it for you, and then gives you a handset with no dial on it (this way the guard knows who you called); the trick was to hang up and to pulse dial, using the hookswitch, the real person you wanted to call (1-800-JAILBREAK). I guess most prison phones aren't this dumb anymore. Latterly flashing the hook has acquired some new meanings, the most common being to tell the CO to flip you to another line (such as to answer call waiting, or to dial again in preparation for a three-way call). But many modern phones don't have a conventional physical hookswitch - many have a magnetic on-hook detector instead, or a "line 1/line 2/line 3" etc thing - so these phones generally have a button marked "flash" which performs a hookflash for you, so you can still access the additional function(s) that the CO has mapped onto a hookflash operation. So lastly we come to # and *. If your CPE is set to tone dial (that is, to use DTMF rather than pulses of hookflash to perform dialling) then # and * are just another two tone-pairs in the DTMF matrix. Frankly, I have no idea what happens when you try to pulse dial them (I'm guessing nothing, as I've never seen a mechanical dial CPE with # and *). As folks have noted above, what the CO or a PBX (that's private branch exchange, a mini telephone exchange that your company may have) takes these to mean is up to it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 04:40, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I'm not 100% sure that being "on hook" is a short-circuit or its twin, a "no connect" - on considering how a CO has to work during a power outage, the latter makes more sense. My $120 dollar book on telephone engineering is, unfortunately, in storage 7000 miles from here, so I can't check. Heck, it's the same idea, either way. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 04:54, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Fascinating that stuff about flapping the hook switch to get the operator's attention. Always wondered what they were trying to achieve there. --bodnotbod 14:24, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, fascinating. Thanks Fin! Mark Richards 23:01, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

First public lending library[edit]

Where was the first public lending library opened and on what date?

William James Sidis states in his book The Tribes and the States that the first public library was established in Boston in 1636. However, he provides no reference and I have been unable to find further confirmation.

He might have been referring to the Harvard library: "The oldest library in the United States dates back to 1638, when Massachusetts clergyman John Harvard donated..." [41], but this wasn't a public or a lending library. -- Heron 13:25, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

This is actually a harder question to answer than I originally presumed.

You're right about that. Some say Benjamin Franklin founded the USA's first one in Philadelphia in 1731, but this was open only to paying members, which might not fit everyone's definition of "public". This site says the Boston Public Library ("the nation's first public lending library") was built in 1895, although their own home page says "Established in 1848, the BPL was the first publicly supported municipal library in America". The first one in Britain funded by a local government authority (if that's your definition of "public") opened in Manchester in 1852, but there were privately funded examples (e.g. in Liverpool and London) before that. -- Heron 13:11, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Here's a good candidate: Chetham's Library, near Manchester, founded in 1653, "Europe's first free public lending library" (although it's not clear how they managed to lend their books which were, according to their web site, chained to the shelves - perhaps they didn't start lending until later). -- Heron 13:31, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Books are dangerous. They must be chained to prevent accidental escape of knowledge. --Menchi 16:36, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Um... Books are valuable, and were more so centuries ago. Chaining books prevented their theft, because people will steal valuable things: by chaining books, Medieval libraries facilitated, rather than hampered, the dissemination of knowledge, by keeping it available for scholarly consultation. It is easy to mock, but a trenchant motto shouldn't replace the difficult work of actually trying to understand other times, other peoples, and other practices. - Nunh-huh 17:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Heron, the information you turned up about Chetham Library is interesting for it's early date. I notice that it is still later than the date Sidis claimed for the Boston library though.

When I searched on this topic I also turned up the information on the Harvard library. It fits well in that it was in Boston and the date is close. However as you say it was not a public lending library.

I am particularly interested in this question as in the book I referenced (available online by the way) Sidis makes the claim that there are certain values attached in a way to the land itself which come to influence immigrant culture, particularly through contact with the native people already living there. This effect on the European people who came to America he claims, resulted in new institutions such as the public lending library and the postal service, which were then later taken abroad. Even if it sounds way out, it is an intriguing point of view. Anyway, the question of where was the first public lending library is by itself an interesting one. Thanks for your detective work, Heron. Oh, and I meglected to sign my name to the original question so I'll do it here now -- Oska 00:03, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

I may as well quote the relevant part of the Sidis text:

"A public school was also established in Boston at that time, with similar results. But educational efforts in Massachusetts also, partly as a result of tribal influence, took more individual forms. A town library was established in Boston in 1636―actually the first public library on record. Also, Boston copied the Penacook institution of a post office, which was actually a terminus for the Iroquois-Penacook courier system, and connected the whole with transatlantic vessels, so that, in 1636, Boston had organized a postal system, as part of a Ganowanian organization, long before there was anything of the sort back in England."

I have a lot of respect for Sidis' research skills, so I think there is probably something to the claim he makes for the Boston town library. That is why I'm interested to see whether there is any confirming documentation.

Have decided to start a wikipedia article on this question. First public library -- Oska 05:16, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Created the page first public library and wrote about the two earliest claims, the Sidis one and the Chetham's Library one that Heron turned up. Added a link from public library. However, user RickK slapped a VfD on the article for some unknown reason. Upset about this as I think it is an interesting topic and one that deserves an article. If you agree please add to the article or vote against the deletion proposal - VfD no. 23 -- Oska 06:49, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

I have voted against deletion. Sorry it took me so long, but for some reason I didn't notice that this discussion was continuing. I am sure that the subject of the history of libraries merits a very long article. -- Heron 09:47, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Oldest written record[edit]

What is the oldest written record we have that is not just a picture?

Hard to say. How can you tell with 100% certainty if the 'picture' is not actually a typographical script like hieroglyphs? Cuneiform is pretty ancient (~3300 BC to AD 500), but clay tokens have been used since as early as 8000 BC. Early forms of Chinese Logographs date from the late Neolithic and the early Bronze so may be even older. Markings as found in Sahara caves or on Easter Island may be even older, if those are alphabets (Logographics) at all. Anárion 13:19, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Easter Island has been inhabited for only about 1600 years; it is certainly not the source of the world's oldest written records. -- Dominus 15:57, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the line between a 'picture' and a 'written record' is not as clear as it might look. There is a grey area between pictures that are potentially a narrative record, and their evolution into a more structured written form based on pictorial representations. I think the answer hinges on how tightly you want to define the things. Mark Richards 15:00, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Isn't this just a little bit weaselly? We can certainly debate scribblings that may be some sort of pictographic writing and may not, but there definitely are things (from the 4th millenium BC) that are known to be repsentations of actual sentences in a human language—as distinct from mnemonics for bards to recite the past several generations' history, for instance. Aren't there? SO someone who knows could just tell us what (and where and when) the earliest generally accepted ones are. New on weird disputed ones said to be earlier would just be a bonus. Dandrake 05:12, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

what is a hemangioma[edit]

According to this hemangioma faq, a hemangioma is "from the Latin words hemangio meaning blood vessel and oma meaning tumor with active cell dividing activity. Hemangiomas differ from other vascular birthmarks in that they are biologically active, their growth is dependent from the growth of the child. They are the most common benign tumor of infants. Hemangioma growth is referred to as Hyperplasia, where as other vascular birthmarks growth is referred to as Hypertrophy."

Google give many sites that go into more depth. Mark Richards 16:35, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Geocentric Model & The Flat Earth[edit]

I am researching the geocentric model and Flat Earth theories of antiquity, and am disapointed in the articles on Wikipedia. I am not looking at them as scientific theories, because obviously they have been disproved... They were philosophies, and the key aspects of those philosophies were not the shape of the heavens, but the fact that the heavens were in space. I am disapointed because there is nothing in these articles that talks about this philosophy. It was apparent to these ancient men that the literal heaven was up in space... and if there is a heaven today, and people still believe the ancient scriptures I feel it is important that our understanding of where heaven is stays intact. This idea that heaven is not in space but is a metaphorical place inside ourselves and appart from the world, because the ancient models were wrong seems silly to me. The ancient models were not wrong, they were just a necesary model to understand the astronomy which played a huge role in religious life. People needed to know the exact time of certain celestial events that marked holidays, and know exactly when the sunset was for prayer. These ancient models that are now known to be wrong, were functional for their purposes. Where can I find information on Wikipedia about these ancient beliefs and philosophies relating to the geocentric model and the flat earth theory? Thanks. — 17:33, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC) It would be there if you write it! Those sound like good aspects to elaborate in the appropriate articles. We would welcome your participation.Alteripse 16:55, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

what is gluvine[edit]

Glüwein, (or Gluvine, Gluhwein) is a type of mulled wine from Germany. Some recipes are here: [42], [43], [44]. Mark Richards 19:20, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The correct spelling is Glühwein (to glow = german glüh(en); wine = german wein -> glow(ing) wine (hot red wine with xmas spices) 20:10, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thank you for the spelling correction! Mark Richards 20:40, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Maxwell Anderson's "High Tor"[edit]

I was reading the Wikipedia article about playwright Maxwell ANderson which mentioned his pulitzer prize winning play, High Tor. I am writing a blog post about my childhood experiences hiking this magnificent mountain. But Wiki doesn't have an entry about High Tor. Since the battle for High Tor chronicled in the play was one of the first victories by environmentalists in this country (in 1941), I thought an entry about the place would be appropriate.

I'd rather see someone else do the job, but if you are interested in this topic I could draft a possible entry.

Go ahead - that's what the 'edit this page' button is for! Mark Richards 20:40, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Why would you rather see someone else do it? Often, when you see the quality of the best wikipedia articles it can be a little offputting. If you are thinking "How can I write a good enough article" then stop that train of thought now. Most articles start out pretty rubbishy. Certainly most of my articles start out that way! It's funny but a lot of people are happy to correct an article once some info is there but are unwilling to add large chunks of new stuff or start new articles. So please please please, draft a start of an entry. Your contibutions will be very welcome :-) theresa knott 21:23, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You say "this country" but not which country that is. So you might want to name your page High Tor (Derbyshire) if it's about the High Tor near Matlock, or High Tor (New York) if it's about the one in New York State. I expect there are many other High Tors. Gdr 16:11, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)


I found this formula on the label of a soup can (really chicken soup? who knows). Does anyone know what this chemical is? Is it really safe to eat?

I can't find what it is yet, but here is some information about it...

 Formula (Name)      Mol. Weight   HF298 +/- val     Cp(298)   S(298)
                                   kJ/mole           J/mole    J/mole
 ClC3H4 CH2-C*H-CHCl    75.51746   107.110           74.224    312.545  #

Mark Richards 22:41, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hmmmm. Could be the CH2=CHCHCl anion written in the Hill System. I found it by entering ClC3H4 here. No idea what it is or what it does. IANAC (I am not a Chemist) :) --inks 01:37, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • I agree that it looks like a radical or anion rather than a stable compound because the bonds don't come out even. Could you look at the label again and quote us what is on either side of the formula? Alteripse 02:07, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It's close to chloropropene (ClC3H5) or chloropropyne (ClC3H3), which are both quite toxic and flammable. Maybe a number was wrong? --Eequor 21:41, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

adding a link to an article for my website[edit]

To link to an article on, say, the Death Star, use Generally, you replace spaces with underscores, only capitalize the first letter (unless there are other proper nouns that need capitalization), and replace "en" with the appropriate language code if you don't want the English version.

The easiest way, really, is to type the name of the article you want in the search box and then copy the URL after the page loads. URLs to significant articles in the Wikipedia are rarely deleted. --Ardonik 23:26, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

linking to an article on this site[edit]

specifically the frida kahlo page

Same deal as above: --Ardonik 23:28, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Data error (cyclic redundandy check) error message while using e-mail[edit]

I use window 2000, outlook 2000, ram 128, hd 40g, 30 free, I have not added any new software/hardware, I was just working and this started happening.

I click on send/receive and received this error message "Internet e-mail, Some messages couldn't be retrieved from the server. This usually happens when the connection to the server is lost due the server or network problems. If the problem persists, contact your administration".

Then I tried to delete a file and tried to move a file to a folder and starting getting this error message The file C:\Documents and Settings\Debra\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook\mailbox.pst could not be accessed Data error (cyclic redundandy check)

What can I do?

Debra Glinsey (spam removed here)

Install Linux? Does this happen every time, or just sometimes? Have you tried reinstalling Outlook? Mark Richards 14:55, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Try Experts Exchange Salasks
It is likely that you have a problem with Microsoft Outlook (This is the e-mail client). Try the Google Groups for Microsoft Outlook. The .pst file message is ominous. Good luck recovering your e-mail. There are virus checkers and e-mail recovery programs sold by vendors for Microsoft Exchange and Microsoft Outlook. Ancheta Wis 22:46, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Which beer was advertised with the slogan 'It's what your right arms for'?[edit]

Courage Tavern Ale. -- Heron 08:07, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hebrew Angel[edit]

I have a question regarding a hebrew angel. Specifically the angel that supposedly created the Tome of Knowledge by listening by Gods throne and then gave the book to Adam to help him understand god. This angel was also supposedly one of Gods greatest and is cited in both the King James version of the Bible in revelations and the hebrew scrolls. The question is what is his name? I thought I found a site saying it was Raziel. However, I know that that name is from a video game in the Soulreaver series. So, is the name Raziel? If not then what is this highest of cherbim called? - (unsigned)

You won't find any story about a Tome of Knowledge or angelic writings in the Bible. The only angels named in the King James version are Michael, Gabriel, Satan, and Apollyon/Abaddon (which may be another name for Satan). In versions which include the Apocrypha, there are two additional named angels: Raphael (named in Tobit) and Uriel (named in 2 Esdras). You are looking for something probably from folklore but definitely some source other than the Bible. - Nunh-huh 18:59, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It seems that "Raziel" is a figure from the Kaballah, the personification of the Divine Wisdom or Chokmah. The story about him writing a book of knowledge for Adam will probably be found in the Zohar. - Nunh-huh 23:35, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"happy birthday" in Albanian[edit]

Would someone please provide the spelling and pronunciation of "Happy Birthday" in Albanian? Thanks. Darla July 15, 2004

Gëzuar ditëlindjen! This site has audio of it (here is just the Albanian [45]), and many other languages. Mark Richards 14:59, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
If I remember right, User:Dori is Albanian. Pcb21| Pete 15:22, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

banana chips the best snack?[edit]

I read somewhere that the banana is probably the most nutritionally complete food, and that dried banana chips are the best snack for energy. Is there any way to verify this? Mjklin 15:46, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well, it really depends. I won't touch 'most nutritionally complete food', since I doubt you are contemplating a banana only diet, but, for energy, I presume you mean as an alternative to power bars or gel? For a quick boost, there is nothing like glucose or some other sugar, but this will quickly fade. Energy bars and bananas will both give you a longer lasting carbohydrate boost, keeping blood sugar levels more elevated over a longer period. I guess there must be plenty of research in Sport science literature on the relative eficacy of different types of food, but I would go with whatever you enjoy eating and works for you for energy, and balance the bananas with other things for the rest of your diet! Mark Richards 23:38, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Here is some opinion:[46] and [47].

If you want to get really scientific about energy content, most diet sites will have tables listing how much energy you can get from X amount of X food.--inks 23:39, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but a lot of it comes down to not the absolute energy content, but the form and release curve. It ends up being very personal. Mark Richards 23:43, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have come across claims that bananas provide 'everything the body needs', but frankly I find them hard to believe. I'll keep looking for some hard data on this. Mark Richards 23:45, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Banana weight Protein Carbs Fat Banana Calories

Banana with skin 170g 2g 39g 0.5g 162 calories

Banana flesh only 114g 1.4g 17.5g 0.2g 108 calories

This [48] seems to be a banana company site, but is quite interesting! Mark Richards 23:50, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The meaning behind your name[edit]

What does the name Wikipedia stand for?

Where did you get?

What does it mean?

Curious never heard of such a name before.


Wikipedia is a portmanteau of wiki, a type of computer software, and encyclopedia, a compendium of knowledge, to reflect that this is an encyclopedia built by a wiki. I'm not sure when it was coined, however. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 16:02, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I believe it was Larry Sanger who made up the name. See History of Wikipedia for more details. theresa knott 22:07, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The name wiki to describe the democratic, open-source computer software is in turn a contraction of the Hawaiian adverb wikiwiki, meaning "swiftly, quickly, fast."

Childrens novels and textbooks[edit]

Since I have been laid up for the past year we have found that novels and books in general have been easier for me to get and read by checking them out on the internet. I would like to see a few of the modern pulp fiction as well such as Grisham john and more westerns like louis L'Amore etc. my grand daughter now on the other hand has found it is a lot easier for her to carry an e-book reader with her and read her books as well. she is looking for more movels in her age bracket and she has also requested that I see if I can locate her text books for school seems she thinks it would be easier for her to carry a small e-book reader than twenty five pounds of text books. How hard it something like this to get added to the library.. also magazines.. with my mobility problem this is the easiest way for me thanks for everything ken

Can you clarify? First, are you looking for online versions of children's books in a text file or PDF format? I have a hunch that very few recently published children's books are going to be available for download in an electronic format; generally, projects like Wikisource and Project Gutenberg are only interested in older, public domain works whose copyrights have expired (correct me if I'm wrong.) Secondly, which library are you referring to? Your granddaughter's school library? Your computer? Or perhaps the Wikipedia (which is not a library)? --Ardonik 00:53, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
The best place to ask if you can get electronic books through the library is at your local public library; many libraries are starting to carry subscriptions to commercial e-book companies. Also, there are many commercial booksellers (such as that you can buy e-books from, including popular fiction. I'm not sure about children's books, however.Brassratgirl 23:48, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Old Recording Catalogue[edit]

Where can I find a listing of albums printed/released by RCA Victor? I've been trying to find the year in which several albums I own were released (the sleeves/records don't say) and haven't had any luck. Thanks in advance. Rhymeless 07:07, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A quick search turned up an alphabetical list at Is that the sort of thing you're looking for? --Ardonik 07:34, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
Unfortunately, this isn't quite what I'm looking for, as it appears to be RCA's current in-print catalogue. In general, I'm looking for releases that have been out-of-print. Rhymeless 08:56, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You could try plugging the details into All Music Guide. You used to be able to search the database by label, but since its completely frustrating and pointless redesign you can no longer do so. You might also want to list the albums here and perhaps someone will know. --bodnotbod 14:42, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

Need a synonym for Outside Context Problem[edit]

Recently an entire column of the Logarithmic timeline was deleted on the ground that the concept Outside Context Problem was named by a novelist, rather than a scientist. Is there a synonym for this concept, so that the column can be reconstituted? Ancheta Wis 10:02, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Please contribute suggestions to Talk: Logarithmic timeline. Gdr 15:59, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)

programmer's fraud with rounding errors[edit]

I've once heard a story about a programmer in the heydays of big iron who was working on the accounting and transfer system of a bank. He realized that due to the necessity to work with fixed-point arithmetics there is no way to keep track of what happens to fractions of cents which are cut off by rounding, and hence added some code, which, whenever an amount is rounded to the bank's benefit, a cent is credited to a special account, the content of which was automatically transferred to some other account, in order to land after some further hops, on a personal account of him. So, he got all the rounding benefits that usually the bank got, but nobody could notice because this cannot show up in the balance. Well, it seems, some day, some body did found out, as otherwise, the story would not be known.

Or is it true at all? Does anybody else know it? Would be interested in details, like when and where it happened, how it was done, and how it was found out. Thanks -- Simon A. 12:40, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Richard Pryor certainly tried to do it in Superman III! Maybe the storyline was based on a real event. adamsan 12:53, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It's known in the trade as salami slicing ;). - 15:46, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC) Lee (talk)
Also tried in Office Space. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 16:06, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. I could have guessed that there is already an article in the Wikipedia about it. Petty only that salami slicing has few details about actual cases. It seems that all known actual cases date long back. Does this mean that the newer ones are not known, or that it got harder to do this nowerdays? I'd guess the latter, due to increases system complexity and larger software development teams. Simon A. 14:56, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The speed of light and time.[edit]

Supposedly, if one travels at the speed of light, time stops. Therefore, light would travel from one point to another instantly, but that is not the case. Why? 20:24, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • As one approaches the speed of light, time dilates (for the observer). However, it would take infinite energy for an object with mass to accelerate to the speed of light, which makes it impossible. →Raul654 20:28, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
  • PS - and just for the record, the speed of light is a function of the permitivitty and permeability of the material it is travelling in. It can never move instantly. →Raul654 20:29, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
  • The speed of light, no matter what, is not infinite. And, light is not made up of matter. Time appears to slow down only on a relative physical level. Hope that helps. --MerovingianTalk 20:35, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
  • If I understand the Lorentz transformation correctly, your actual mass at any given velocity v is , where m is your rest mass and c is the speed of light in a vacuum. Thus, if you were traveling at c, you would effectively have infinite mass. The premise "one travels at the speed of light" is therefore meaningless. If I'm wrong, correct me (I probably am.) --Ardonik 22:10, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
    • More to the point (as I said above) - as your speed approaches C, your mass approaches infinity, and thus requires more energy to accelerate per unit of velocity. Thus, it is impossible to accelerate to the speed of light. →Raul654 22:15, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
  • You are missing the point of local time, which is very important in relativity. In the local frame of an observer, light in vacuum always travels with same speed c. So, whatever light "experiences" in its own frame, it will take roughly 1 second to travel 300,000 km. Now, the interesting question is what is actually going on in the local frame of the "photon", the "particle" equivalent of light. Well, its mass is zero and it stays that way (see above), and its speed is constant in vacuum. Since light does not "age", I'm thinking asking for the "progress of time" might be meaningless, here... Anybody? Awolf002 22:23, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • I think everyone is missing the point somewhat. *Light* travels at the speed of light, for which time is at a standstill and therefore gets where it's going instantly. This is what the problem is about.
(Edit - everyone except Awolf002 who's got it exactly right. Only he wrote it just before I hit the edit button the first time and I never saw it till after I'd added my comment!)
If you sat on a ray of light you would get where you were going instantly from your point of view. From everyone else's point of view some time has passed. If you travelled to Alpha Centauri at 90% of the speed of light it would take about 4 years and 9 months from the point of view of someone sitting at home. From your point of view it would only take only about 2 years. As you get closer and closer to the speed of light the time taken to get to Alpha Centauri gets closer and closer to 4 years and 4 months for an outside observer, but the time passing for the traveller keeps on shrinking indefinitely. Ultimately for light itself no time passes at all from it's point of view.
If you like you can imagine yourself staying in the same place and watching a traveller moving more and more slowly about his spaceship as he approaches lightspeed, but the ship still takes the expected time to get from point A to B. That it is impossible to reach lightspeed yourself isn't entirely relevant to the question :-) EddEdmondson 22:26, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


You can tell who is your parents and offspring with genetic testing, but can you tell who's you're grandfather? cousin? uncle? Would geneticists be able to tell that my nephew is my nephew? how much can genes tell me about me? 20:31, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Yes, related people have related DNA. --MerovingianTalk 20:35, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)
Once you move beyond one generation (parents or children), the ability to test for relatedness is, at present, only a theoretical ability, which would involve a lot of samples from a lot of people. Practically speaking, you can identify only two types of relatives: those who share your Y-chromosome (if you have one), who are descendants via male-lines-only from your father's father's father's father's father (etc.) and those who share your mitochondrial DNA. The former often share your surname; the latter are descendants through female-lines-only of your mother's mother's mother's mother's mother (etc.). The reason you can trace so far back with the Y chromosome and mt-DNA is because there's not recombination; the other chromosomes "mix" in each generation, making tracing fragments of DNA impractical at present. - Nunh-huh 22:30, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

IRC software[edit]

I feel I'm missing out. Can anyone recommend a good (free) IRC client so that I can actually access things like #wikipedia? -- Graham ☺ | Talk 00:28, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mozilla - here are Anthere's instructions to me, which helped! [49] Mark Richards 02:21, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Can you name your platform (Windows? Mac? Linux? Other?) --Ardonik 03:44, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)
    • Windows (98). I phoned a friend and he gave me a client name which I am currently using: starchat. Wouldn't know if it's the best or pants as I have nothing to compare it with... -- Graham ☺ | Talk 03:47, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Is there someplace where IRC is explained more fully for those of us who have never done it? Above is still cryptic to me. Alteripse 16:59, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • There's our IRC article, but I'll be glad to answer any specific questions you have. --Ardonik 19:15, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)
    • And, please, if this reveals info that should be added to the article, add it! -- Jmabel 22:50, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

This is what Ardonik offered and it worked for me. I copied it into the IRC article also.

How to set up IRC:

  • I'm assuming you have administrative priveleges on your computer; that'll make things easier to install.
    1. Go to, and click on downloads.
    2. Get Gaim-0.79.exe and install it. (It's Free Software, so you can copy it anywhere you like.)
    3. When it's done installing, it'll ask you to sign in. You'll see an accounts window.
      1. Click "+ Add".
      2. Change the protocol to IRC.
      3. Give yourself a screen name and password.
      4. Make sure the server is
      5. Click save. Gaim will sign you in automatically.
    4. In the Buddy List window, do Buddies->Join a Chat.
    5. Channel:#Wikipedia.
    6. Type stuff. Everyone will see it.  :-)

If you have an internet firewall program like Norton Internet Security you may need to confirm that Gaim is in the list of programs permitted to communicate with the internet, or you may need to add the IRC port 6667. Alteripse 01:07, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Or use ChatZilla in Mozilla. — Chameleon My page/My talk 02:49, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Tiger Salamander?[edit]

I saw a lizard of some sort outside tonight; I snapped this photo.

Tiger salamander?

. Can anyone confirm whether it is a Tiger Salamander? Looks like the right coloration and size, and it's native to my area (Colorado Springs, Colorado). Thought I'd add it to the article if it is. -- Wapcaplet 05:17, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • There's a picture of a tiger salamander at that looks nearly identical to your cute little lizard. (There are other snapshots here.) I'd venture to say that you do indeed have a "tiger salamanda" on your hands, but I'm definitely not a herpetologist. --Ardonik 08:41, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)
    • One final note: Why do you people at Colorado Springs get all the lizards? I've never seen a lizard of any sort in all my years at Thornton. --Ardonik 08:46, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

It's the first lizard of any kind I've seen since I moved here a year ago. I think it only came out because it has been raining for the past few days. It does indeed look like the other tiger salamander photos I've found by googling. I hope an expert can confirm it for me. -- Wapcaplet 15:17, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

about data control language[edit]

could anyone explain me what is data control language

  • Do you have some context for us? It seems to mean different things to different people. --Ardonik 05:26, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)
    • Perhaps you're asking about the subset of SQL known as the DCL; see the SQL article for details. --Ardonik 05:29, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

A City in Iraq...[edit]

An acquaintance of mine's brother is being stationed in Iraq. He wouldn't reveal where, but he did give a clue that the city/town was founded in 680 A.D. So far the closest match I've found is Basra, which was founded in 636. Can anybody give us some help? Thanks. Johnleemk | Talk 09:20, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Karbala was not founded in 680, but the year 680 is important and associated with it because Imam Hussein and his followers were killed there in 680AD, I wonder whether there might be some confusion on that account? There has been heavy fighting between US and Iraqi (and possibly other) forces there, although I am not sure there are US troops presently station in Kabala. Mark Richards 16:41, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Errm, the reason your acquaintences brother is not allowed to say where he is is that someone high up thinks the information might be valuable to the enemy. Not that I wish to interfere with free speech, just that you might like to think twice before publishing the information on a public website. DJ Clayworth 05:57, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Research on crashed RCAF Aircraft, 1`939[edit]

In doing research on Crashed Aircraft in 1939, using a Wright Cyclone Engine the RCAF Crash documentation referred to "an incorrectly installed MUFF. Could you please show information on what a MUFF is and what is its function. Thank You Alen

A Google search gives some eye-opening, but not terribly relevant, sites... This is a picture of one, I think [50]. Mark Richards 17:55, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Elton John's name[edit]

What is the history of Elton John's name. I used to know. These days all I can remember of it is that he took the John portion in respect to Long John Baldry.

  • Elton John's website is surprisingly useless. After a small bit of searching, I stumbled upon (link removed) this article at sing365. According to the article, Elton John's birth name was Reginald Kenneth Dwight. He joined a band called "Bluesology" in '61, and Bluesology became a supporting band of blues singer Long John Baldry in '66. Within six months, Dwight had left the band and changed his name to Elton John, a combination of the names of saxophonist Elton Dean and Long John Baldry himself. I won't vouch for the article's accuracy, but I find it comforting that their account agrees with yours. --Ardonik 19:13, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)
    • Sounds right to me, I heard exactly the same account of the name in the early 1970s. And he definitely is Reginald Dwight by birth. -- Jmabel 22:53, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

Biblical Books of Moses .. How did Moses write them 300-400 years before Hebrew Script?[edit]

Given that Moses lived around the time of the Exodus around 1300-1250 BC ref, and Hebrew Script didn't develop until about 900 BC ref, how do Christian Fundamentalists and more conservative Jews square this with the fact that Moses is supposed to have written the so-called Books of Moses (i.e. the Pentateuch)?

Given that the accepted view is that the Hebrew alphabet derives from the Phoenician one, and that the Hebrews adopted and adapted it only after their arrival in Canaan (the Phoenicians being themselves Canaanites), it would seem to pose a major problem for fundamentalists. Is it head in the sand time for them, or have there been any serious attempts to justify this? Spellbinder 00:44, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Why the confrontational tone? We're all friends here at the Wikipedia. The way I read your question, it looks like there's only one kind of answer you'll accept (namely, "confound it, Spellbinder, you're right!") If you're itching to argue with a fundamentalist, I highly recommend alt.atheism on USENET. Or am I missing the ball here? --Ardonik 01:43, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

May I suggest some possible explanations; you can take any of them:

  1. dating of the development of Hebrew script is wrong;
  2. The books were written by Moses and rewritten in Hebrew script later;
  3. Not all Christians, even Fundamentalists, believe Moses wrote the first five books (most, at least, will admit that someone else probably wrote the passage at the end that described his death);

DJ Clayworth 06:05, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There was a time when the Bible was not written down, but remembered by special people with eidetic memory, like the ones in Fahrenheit 451. Moses spoke the words, just as Julius Caesar spoke his Gallic Wars commentaries. There must have been multiple rememberers so that they could check each other's memories. Islam also accords a special name for those types of people. Anyway, when the Bible was written down, there was a great outcry because "something was being lost" by the capture of the words in script. My reference is the OxfordCambridge History of the Bible. I would have to return to my public library to give you the ISBN. Please respond if you truly care. Ancheta Wis 15:10, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Nitpicker patrol would remind Ancheta that eidetic means "image" and in this context means "remembering by seeing an image of the page in the mind's eye" so use here for preliterate society is incorrect. Correct might be "people with a really good memory" (feeble joke). There is lots of stuff written about techniques for remembering lengthy literary pieces like sagas and epics for oral performance and transmission, by "chunking" the text as "epithets" and short stereotypical but meaningful "stories." I understand memorizing entire books of "sacred" writing is still done in some parts of the world as preparation for killing international aid workers, but it isn't a group practice in the West anymore.Alteripse 15:24, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • I like no.3  ;o) Remids me of a story I wrote at primary school (or Kindergarten for those in the US, I think). It was about an explorer who gets caught by the inevitable, comic book inspired, band of native cannibals and end's up getting put in a pot and boiled alive. Unfortunately I had started out the story written in a diary style. So I found myself putting in his last diary entry: "June 4th 1924 - Help! Aaaaargh! I'm being boiled! Aaaargh!". It's still actually better than the stuff I write these days... --bodnotbod 14:51, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

Or, from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

MAYNARD: It reads, 'Here may be found the last words of Joseph of Aramathea. He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the Holy Grail in the Castle of uuggggggh'.
MAYNARD: '... the Castle of uuggggggh'.
BEDEVERE: What is that?
MAYNARD: He must have died while carving it.

-- Wapcaplet 16:35, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't intending to be confrontational. And I'm not sure of the definitions of 'fundamentalist', I was really using it as shorthand for 'people who believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch'; I did mention conservative Jews too (I'm not sure whether 'conservative' is the right adjective here either).

The question occurred to me after reading up about the alphabet, saying that Hebrew script was developed about 900 BC; the Hebrews used straight Phoenician script about a century beforehand before adapting it, but I've read that before that they were not a literate society (which presumably makes it rather difficult for Moses to write it at all, unless he perhaps knew Egyptian hieratic, though I've never heard a hieratic Pentateuch suggested). Even apart from those 'fundamentalists' (my defn) who believe Moses actually wrote the Pentateuch, there must be plenty of more mainstream Christians and Jews who find it hard to swallow an oral tradition of at least 300-400 years, with all that it entails for the accuracy of the account. It strikes me that this ought to be a big deal, and since there ought to be some scope for arguing about the dating, I would have thought that some more 'fundamentalist' scholars might have countered the generally accepted theory with a theory of their own. What I actually wanted to know was:

  • can anyone point me to such a counter-theory or theories?
  • or has there been a refusal to engage in this debate at all by more 'fundamentalist' scholars?

P.S. Starting writing this before all the replies were in. Ancheta, I'd be interested in that source if you can rake up the ISBN, thanks.

Spellbinder 18:05, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The book that I am referring to, in fact has alphabet letters in it, for the times when Arabia was successively Jewish, then Hellenic, then Muslim. (The man named Moussawi who is in jail in the US for 9/11/2001 reasons has a name meaning follower of Moses, ie. he has ancestors who were Jewish. That was the name for the Jewish religion in at least one of the countries of North Africa; Moussawi is what was on the passports, for example) Ancheta Wis 21:54, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
By the way, the Jews call it Tanakh for TNK (Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim), Torah being the first 5 books of the Bible, or Pentateuch in Greek, or Books of Moses. That's why it's so repetive; there were a lot of people who were remembering bits and snatches of their history as it was being written down. What is amazing is that many of the remembrances were consistent with each other. I'm not a scholar, but there are sure a lot of experts and books in this field.Ancheta Wis 21:54, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC) Try to find something over 150 years old. Christian fundamentalism was only defined in the early decades of the twentieth century; before that the scholars were not quite so polarized. A cleric was supposed to learn Hebrew, Greek and Latin before he was qualified to to speak out or write about it, 150 years ago. Now, it's all English, of course, and everyone feels qualified.
Here is a nice wikipedia link about this.

See the articles on dating the Bible and the documentary hypothesis. Gdr 13:17, 2004 Jul 19 (UTC)

Perhaps 'literalist' would be a less explosive word than 'fundamentalist'? Mark Richards 15:41, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

writing an economic analysis paper[edit]

I am soposed to write an economic analysis paper on an article. Does any one know a structure for this?

  • The whole point of such assignments is that you must do them on your own. If you'd like to use the Wikipedia as a source for your economics paper, you may want to look at our citing Wikipedia article. --Ardonik 18:50, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

You're soposed to write it on a Wikipedia article, or any article? Is there a particular article you are interested in? I'd love to do your homework for you. Mark Richards 15:43, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Your philosophy with regards to school assignments appears to be at variance with mine. --Ardonik 07:16, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)
    • To be fair, he/she has only asked for a structure. But we still need more info to be able to help. --bodnotbod 16:13, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)
      • Scratch my previous statement; my sarcasm detector was malfunctioning. --Ardonik 19:18, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

Where are they now? The Korean Imperial family[edit]

What happened to the lineage of the Imperial family? -- Kaihsu 17:11, 2004 Jul 18 (UTC)

When the Japanese took over the Korean Peninsula in 1910, they forcibly reorganized the last reigning dynasty as part of the larger Japanese royal family. When King Kojong abdicated the throne, the Japanese moved his son the Crown Prince Sun-jong, and the other Crown Prince Yongchin, to Japan to learn the Japanese aristocratic way of life. All the primary heirs to the Korean throne were married into the Japanese royal family. In 1947, the Korean royal family lost their Japanese titles by order of General Douglas MacArthur. The Korean royal family, including the Crown Princes, moved to the United States to raise their families. Yongchin's son, Lee Ku, went to MIT in Massachusetts to become an architect. Relatives of the Korean royal family are all American citizens today, living and working in the United States in the private sectors. --Gerald Farinas 01:31, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Poisoned figs[edit]

I found this question wrongly created as an article, so I've deleted the article and moved the content here. Deb 19:03, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"History Channel says that Augustus Caesar died from poisoned figs; A prof. (local LCC) said he was poisoned with Hemlock. I would like to know what the facts are and who did the deed!

I have searched but I am not Link titlefinding any "answers'.

RSVP to With much appreciation, G.S."

Skimming Suetonius he records that Augustus caught a chill and suffered from diarrhoea which weakened him. Then he died so the upset tum could have been bad figs- any doctors know what the symptoms of hemlock poisoning are? adamsan 19:24, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The story—that Livia poisoned Augustus's figs while they were still on the tree—comes from Dio Cassius (book 56, ch. 30); I don't know anything about hemlock. HTH. —No-One Jones 04:50, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Channel [V][edit]

Channel [V] is a music channel in Asia. Any ideas as to what the letter V stands for? ¶ nichalp 19:54, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

  • I can't find any information about this on the web, but I'm getting the impression that the V doesn't stand for anything in particular. All I can suggest is to contact them and ask them yourself. --Ardonik 02:27, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)
I email them. No reply so far :( [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 19:04, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)
  • As far as I know, V, Z, and X are often used in this capacity, for various reasons. Logo teams like the symmetry of the letters, and they don't neccesarily mean anything in certain Asian languages (Roman characters interspersed seemingly randomly in Asian languages is very common, especially in Japanese), even when the words have been romanised. Another reason, is that, similar to products such as prescription drugs, you see a larger number of these letters, because people seem to find them more representative of "cutting edge" technology. Another reason, which I am less sure of, could be something along the lines of "V for victory". Rhymeless 03:48, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I've heard of 'V' could stand for victory. But for a professional channel, I think they should state the reason why they used that alphabet. [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 19:04, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)
Another guess: if it's a dedicated music channel perhaps it stands for video (or the local equivalent of that word) --bodnotbod 02:42, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Wikipedia:[edit]

I love your work and use it a lot. It's great.

I have written a book about Sara Jane Moore. Most or at least, a lot of the information "out there" is incorrect. Oliver Sipple did not save President Ford's life. That is a myth that has been around for years.

Sara Jane almost killed president Ford. She came within six inches of his shooting him in the head. Sipple knocked her arm away on her second shot.

What I'm looking for is to share URL's if your are interested. My URL is

I'd be happy to have your URL on my Web Site for all your other information about everything you have which is extensive.

Let me know.


Geri Spieler 650/852-9700

  • There's no one person or organization named "Wikipedia"; if you have ever clicked on an "edit this page" link, then you, too, are a Wikipedian! If you want to create an article on Sara Jane Moore, then be my guest, but be prepared to have your writings scrutinized and edited mercilessly, as all articles on the Wikipedia are. The Community Portal links to a large number of resources that will be helpful to new Wikipedians. We'd be glad to have you aboard! --Ardonik 02:03, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)
  • Oliver Sipple did not save President Ford's life. That is a myth [...] [SJ] came within six inches of his shooting him in the head. Sipple knocked her arm away on her second shot. - - I can't help but feel there's a contradiction there... --bodnotbod 02:46, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

hughes tool co. tricone drill bit verification[edit]

i have recently come across a hughes tool co. tri-cone well drilling bit. some say its one of the original from the co. and others say its from the 60-70's era. it does have the HHT marking on the side and a serial number on it. where can i find out more information on the piece. i have contacted baker-hughes with very little help from them. any sites, your site, etc.?

How did you contact Baker-Hughes? Often, when there's no obvious website, Googling part of the postal address helps. Also,m putting the serial no. into Google might yield unexpected results, so try that. --bodnotbod 02:51, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

Disproportionate number of women studying forensics[edit]

I've heard that recently a highly disproportionate number of women have been entering the field of Forensics. First, I want to find out if this is really the case. Second, what are some possible factors to explain why this is happening? --NeuronExMachina 01:22, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

If true, don't you think it's the television shows? I heard a discussion on NPR about how unrealistic the shows are, but how there would be no drama if realistic, so the advisors and forensics people all decided they would rather have a show about their jobs than none even if totally misrepresenting. Not coincidentally I can tell you that "forensics" is right up there with "marine biologist" and "veterinarian" among middle school girls as a popular career ambition (according to my unscientific daily conversational sampling). But I've never heard a boy say that. Alteripse 01:34, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Due to the TV portrayal of forensics I would not be surprised if the entry rate around the world was on the increase. It is shown to be a "good" job, where you catch "bad" people and help the "innocent" go free, what's not to like? However, finishing off a degree in forensics or a related field is an entirely different matter - it is a hard subject to study, both in terms of difficulty and nature - there are 120 students in my Undergrad anatomy class. Only about 15% of these show up to the non-mandatory dissection labs with cadavers, even though most of the learning takes place there. Of those 120 students, 4 (including me) are doing Honors. So although you may have more going in, I'm not sure if the graduation rate has increased hugely in recent history. --inks 14:01, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

For any question about statistics of specific occupations, the best resource would be the United States Department of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook ( which is updated annually or the Bureau of Labor Statistics ( --Gerald Farinas 17:35, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Need help ( Free education in Germany for Engineering.)[edit]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am P.Satish Chandra Reddy from India. I have just passed my M.B.A. I am a Science student and I did my basic graduation in Computers. I am really interested in Doing Engineering. I want to do Mechanical Engineering. I came to know that in Germany they provide Free education. My question is Can I get admission in one such University which provides Free Education? Do they provide Free education even for the Engineering courses? Is the Engineering course for 3 years or is it for 4 years, because I heard that there is one 3yrs course and one 4yrs course? (according to my knowledge in International Standards an Engineering course should be for 4yrs)? please help me in this regard and help me to get into one of the good universities. You can please mail me at

Email ID: Awaiting for your reply, Thanking you,

P.Satish Chandra Reddy.

  • I think you have unrealistic expectations about the sort of things we can accomplish at the Reference Desk.  :-/ --Ardonik 02:30, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)
  • You could look up more information about the German Tertiary education system here and browse a list of German Universities here. Good luck! --inks 14:07, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • I would be very surprised if the free education you mention extended to non-German citizens. In other countries where eduction is free or subsidised it is usually for citizens only. DJ Clayworth 18:18, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mosquitos: Why do they prefer some people to others?[edit]

As probably most of you knwo from first-hand experience, if you spend time in an area with many mosquitoes, some people always get stung every other minute while others are nearly completely spared. In Germany, some people claim that a mosquito senses when somebody has "sweet" (nutricious) blood, but I suppose, this is nonsense. How should it sense it? Maybe it is infrared radiation? People with good circulation have wram blood and their veins glow in IR, attracting the mosquitos. Anybody out there knows the correct explanation? Simon A. 15:09, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think they are attracted to carbon dioxide, but I'm not sure that helps! Mark Richards 16:55, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
There are some old wives' tales that link diet to mosquito bites, but Snopes declares that these are mostly false. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:01, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)
It does seem like mosquitoes choose some people over others, but it's also true that some people just don't know when they've been bitten. Sensitivity to mosquito saliva (or whatever it is) is an allergy: a pretty common one, but not universal. My dad never gets the little itchy bumps, while I'll be covered and scratching all night. moink 17:04, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I've witnessed this firsthand. When I was sleeping in the same room with a bunch of my relatives in Nigeria, they all escaped the night unbitten while I had been targetted several times. And, of course, the mosquitos in eastern Nigeria are the malaria-spreading kind, Anopheles. I don't know why they targetted me alone, but they really can.
Since then, I have declared an everlasting unfriendship with these animals. They disgust me. Having a mosquito bite you is like sharing a dirty needle with all of its previous victims—they're nothing more than flying, heat-seeking hypodermic syringes. Any creature that resembles a mosquito, no matter the species or sex, receives the death sentence if I catch it. I'm of the opinion that each time a mosquito passes away, the sun shines brighter the next morning. Death to polio! Death to smallpox! Death to the mosquito! --Ardonik 17:08, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)

Is it true that they spread HIV? I think it is not. Mark Richards 19:20, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No, they do not spread HIV. Blood flow is one way only in the mosquito.--inks 01:32, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Not wanting to sound stupid, or anything, but how does the malaria get into the mosquito then? I thought it happened when they bit already-infected hosts. --Phil | Talk 08:54, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)
The mosquito gets the malaria from the blood meal. When a mosquito subsequently bites another person, there is no reflux of the prior blood meal, but the salivary glands of the mosquito are infective. I suppose there's a theoretical possibility that blood bourne diseases could be transmitted by biting insects where such a reflux does occur (can't think of any offhand) but the conditions in the insect's mouthparts make it highly unlikely that an organism not expressly evolved to survive there wouldn't last long enough to pose a significant health hazard to the insect's subsequent "clients" -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:50, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

i want to get pictures to teach comparatives and superlatives[edit]

I presume you mean pictures of things that are biggest / bigger, smallest / smaller, offensive / most offensive / more offensive? There should be plenty of pictures on the internet - do you want pictures with some specific form of licensing, or for commercial work? Any ideas of what kind of comparatives / superlatives? Mark Richards 19:41, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)


We have an article on these organisms, if that's what you're looking for. --Ardonik 19:21, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

Info on Artificial Development's CCortex (autonomous cogntive model)[edit]

In a number of places recently I've seen a press release from Artificial Development regarding their CCortex project, "a complete 20-billion neuron simulation of the Human Cortex and peripheral systems, on a cluster of 500 computers - the largest neural network created to date." This sounds quite interesting, but all I've been able to find concerning their work is the press releases and the info on their web page. Can anyone find out any solid information regarding the company, such as which researchers work for them, and any publications they might have?

Similarly, can anyone locate information on Adaptive AI, Inc.? (A friend of mine is considering employment with them)

Do u know about PDR's[edit]

i need to find a medicine by the name of lac-hydrin or also called ammonum lactate? i need to know the classification, contraindications, indications, side- affects, and dosage/administrations. so if you can help i would really be grateful1 thx-u tookie

A brief Google search shows up plenty of sites with information. Here are a couple [51], [52]. It's worth checking out who is giving any medical advise you get on the net though, and bearing in mind whether they are trying to sell you anything. I am not a doctor, and this is not medical advice. Good luck, Mark Richards 22:45, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Lachydrin is a lotion available without a prescription in the US. It is recommended by dermatologists for various causes of rough skin, such as hyperkeratosis pilaris. It's not quite a moisturizer, perhaps an "emollient."? I doubt there are any significant side effects or contraindications. Dosage, like most other lotions, is "slather at your pleasure." It's not in the PDR because it is non-prescription. Are we helping you with LPN school homework, tookie? Good luck. Alteripse 00:12, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sounds like homework for a pharmacy student :) The nearest medical library will have drug consults (ask a librarian) that should be able to give you that information. --inks 14:25, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The Duke and Ducat[edit]

I should be most grateful if anyone can help me find a copy, audio or written, of this play.

Many thanks,


Do you have any more information about author, when it was written, where it has ever been performed etc? Mark Richards 17:15, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

US Army soldier's kit[edit]

Hi, I found plenty of info on Wiki about the food that US Army soldiers carry with them (MRE's), but I was just wondering about the other stuff they carry --kits, packs, etc. Anybody know an article about that? Thanks, Mjklin 16:30, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Length of time stored water is good[edit] the absence of any further constraints, I'd say indefinitely. --Ardonik 23:30, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

Well it does depend on how it is stored, under what conditions, what contaminants are already mixed with it etc. Storing it under certain conditions can act to purify it, but storing it under others can lead to contamination. Is there a specific set of circumstances you are thinking of? I agree with Ardonik that sealed, bottled water should last pretty much indefinately, that might not be true for an open bottle of water left in the sun. Mark Richards 00:18, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'd venture that it would depend on the storage container, storage conditions, and the purity of the water you started out with in the first place. If your container is inert, storage is in the dark near freezing temps, and if you started out with water uncontaminated by bacteria, heavy metals, etc., then your water might outlast you. --inks 02:28, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

FEMA and the Red Cross recommend rotating your emergency water supply every six months. -- Beland 07:51, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think that assumes you are using closed containers of non-sterile water in relatively cool dark places. Mark Richards 21:59, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Factory outlet stores in Maine[edit]

Does anyone know anything about the history of how Kittery, Maine and Freeport, Maine got so many factory outlet stores? -- Beland 07:43, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I know nothing about those specific locations but it seems quite common for businesses in the same trade to group together. It is mutually beneficial provided there is enough distinction between different outlets that they do not lose out in a competitive war with each other. I live in London and the Charing Cross Road is famous for its bookshops, Tottenham Court Road is packed with various electrical stores, Soho is populated with pornography retailers and sex shops as well as various media production companies.
As for how such things are seeded, it may be that you have those clusters of factory outlet stores because of some kind of tax break available to particular types of business. Special tax arrangments have been used in the UK to encourage, for example, Japanese car manufacturers to set up factories in particular areas to kick start the local economy.
Whether any of the above apply to your specific cases I don't know. --bodnotbod 12:15, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
I agree with you general points and unfortunately can't provide a specific answer about Maine either. However your comments about "clustering" reminds me of a little project that might turn into an curious little article - List of luxury good retailer locations or something:
It is perhaps not widely known that there are only about two or three luxury goods companies, each with dozens of exclusive brands that apparently compete with each other. These two or three companies buy a street which then becomes an "exclusive" location. It would be fun (for me anyway) to list these and what shops they have:
Sloane Street, London : Prada, Armani, Fendi, Gucci, Harvey Nichols, Louis Vuitton, Cartier, Versace, Hermes, Bvlgari (and others that I can't remember of the top of my head)
Rodeo Drive, Los Angeles : Tiffany (210), Cartier (220 and 370), Pierre Deux (222), Jose Eber (224), Christian Dior (230), Valentino (240),Van Cleef & Arpels (300), Louis Vuitton (307), Hammacher Schlemmer (309), David Orgell (320), Georgio (327), Ferragamo (357), Cafe Rodeo (360), Harry Winston (371), Chanel (400), Fred (401), Vidal Sassoon (405), Bijan (420 & 431), Hermes (434), Armani (436), Gianni Versace (437), Gucci (443), Polo/Ralph Lauren (444) and The Tommy Hilfiger Store (468)
Fifth Avenue, New York : ?
Place Vendome and Triangle d'Or, Paris: Same as above
PC Hooftstraat, Amsterdam: Seemed to have the same as above
??? more... for an article?
Pcb21| Pete 13:33, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Funny this should be raised. I considered mentioning Bond Street (also London) when I made my initial post. Plenty of high priced goods down there. --bodnotbod 12:27, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)
I eventually persuaded myself to write luxury good. Pcb21| Pete 20:44, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I've added a new little section... it might not justify a section but let's see if it blooms. Wrote it in a bit of a rush, cos I seem to have an upset stomach and I keep having to, well, I'll spare you the details. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod ......TALKQuietly)]] 13:40, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

Why do some birds only hop?[edit]

Hi, I'd like to know why it is that big and medium-sized birds can walk, but small birds seem to just hop. Is it because of the way their legs are? Thanks... Â??Joy 10:07, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Maybe claws are hard to walk on? Webbed feets are probably very comfortable shoes. I cannot picture a swallow walking though. It's a scary freaky image for some reason. --Menchi 10:15, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I've noticed that small hopping birds and large birds have different legs. Small hopping birds have knees that fold in the opposite direction from the knees of larger birds or those of humans. I don't know why they would have different knees; for that I guess you'd need to look to evolutionary biology to find out what advantage is conferred by the knees or the hopping. But I think there must be some relationship. I hope this helps at least a little. -- Dominus 15:44, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
This article has a few answers. -- Picapica 20:22, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC) (generally a walker, though I do the odd sideways hop)
I imagine that if you've got backward facing knees it's easier to fly forwards and then land, gracefully, on a twig, because you're leading with your feet and when you touch down you've got a nice kind of suspension effect of the folded tension beneath you. Picture it the other way around. Your knees are in front of your feet, you hit the twig and your knees have got an irritating forward momentum carrying you over the twig so that you end up spinning around it like a gymnast on asymetric bars.
If I'm right in thinking that birds with forward facing knees tend not to be the same birds that land on twigs (cranes and flamingos etc) then perhaps I'm onto something. --bodnotbod 12:22, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

All birds have forward facing knees like us, but they are normally not very visible - what is being describe as the knee is actually the ankle, at the end of the tibia. Next time you carve a chicken, check it out. jimfbleak 17:32, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Damn. I was so happy with my tinpot, bird-ignorant theory too. --bodnotbod 02:13, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

I have heard that the legs of birds sitting on twigs are constructed so that they automatically pull the toes together when the bird sits down, this way they need less muscle power to stay on that branch. That may be one reason why walking (which needs bent knees) is difficult for them. -- Chris 73 | Talk 12:49, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It is incorrect to assume that large birds walk and small birds hop. Small beach finches (we call them wave-runners) run at very high speed. You can barely tell that they have legs. An identical bird found in Bermuda always hops. Both live on the beach, eat the same food, and are the same size. Perhaps it is cultural. Bermuda is a rocky volcanic peak and the Atlantic shore here is wide and flat. It is easier to hop on rocks, but easier to run on a wide flat beach. ps: Jimfbleack was absolutely correct in stating that all birds have forward facing knees. The 'backwards' knee is the ankle and the 'foot' is merely their toes. Try walking on your toes only and you can see how your ankles become 'backwards knees'. Kainaw 15:20, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)


I'm interested, how You call that microbiological device and if I can find a page in English Wikipedia about this tool. A drawing & definition (but only in Polish) are here Sorry 4 me English. Reytan 17:49, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's an inoculating loop (As you can see we don't have an article on it yet, but there is a diagram of one being used on agar plate). theresa knott 18:09, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thank You very much. Greetings from Czestochowa! Reytan 19:14, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

older federal elections results[edit]

anyone know where i can find (online) elections results for the u.s. house and senate from as far back as the 60s? or i guess ideally, since senators were elected by popular vote? more specifically, who didn't win...Thepedestrian 19:26, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

  • It's unfortunately going to be pretty difficult to find any (free-use) sources for such information on the WWW. The best way to get this type of info is probably to go to the reference section of a local library and ask for a title such as America Votes [Governmental Affairs Institute] or The Election Data Book [Election Data Services]. Hope this helps. ffirehorse 21:27, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Why indigo[edit]

why is indigo specifically chosen as a color in the rainbow. There are others shades like it. Why was indigo chosen .

Thank you

The story I heard was this: Isaac Newton, on writing Optics, saw that there were six colours (ROYGB & purple). But Isaac was very religious (and rather supersitious) and if you'll recall "6" is reputedly the number of the devil, while "7" is the number of God. So Isaac couldn't believe the perfect order of the universe would have any 6s in it, and so split purple into indigo and violet. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:55, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
This story is, BTW, also mentioned in our article on indigo. Simon A. 10:32, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's totally arbitrary, as are the concept of 'colours' as 'pieces' of the spectrum. Mark Richards 21:55, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Colors are not arbitrary: they arise from the physiology and neurology of color vision]. Gdr 08:30, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)
There are also cultural perceptions of what a colour is. In the Welsh language the same word is used to describe the colour of the sky and of grass. In English, have you not heard of "blue grass country"? -- Arwel 09:57, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
In this context, it might be interesting to note that their seems to be a hierarchy of colour names: languages with only one named colour have this name for red, those with two seem to add green etc. (I forgot the details, but it it mentioned in Steven Pinker's great book The Language Instinct.) Simon A. 10:33, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Well, in the Welsh case we have a perfectly good word for "green", we just don't use it to describe grass! -- Arwel 12:21, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
If you look at the colors of the spectrum, you'll see that green falls in the middle. Because it was important for the major color denominations to fall at the same regular intervals as the colors of the spectrum, scientists measured an interval between the blue and purple colors and named it the official color indigo. —Gelu Ignisque

This article suggests that indigo was a fashionable, and perhaps even politically charged, commodity at the time Newton wrote his Opticks. The British and Dutch East India companies had just defeated a European trading embargo against indigo, which competed against European woad. Newton was looking for two new colours to expand his spectrum from the five colours he originally saw to the seven he needed to make his "musical colour wheel" correspond with the seven notes of the diatonic scale. (This web page implies that Newton was a synaesthete, although it gives no further evidence.) Orange, the second new colour that Newton came up with, may also have been chosen for political rather than technical reasons. Apparently Newton was not above bending the truth to support his own POV! -- Heron 09:26, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

GDR - you're right - there is some physiology and neurology in it, but what I meant is that different cultures cut the fine definitions of the spectrum in different places, relatively arbitrarily. Mark Richards 16:59, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Exact Player Positions Euro Championship 1992[edit]

Can you tell me the exact positions for the following German Players, Brehme, Helmer and Frontzeck.The game was against the Netherlands Euro championship 1992. I know all three were defenders-but where exactly ie Right fullback/Left fullback,sweeper etc.Hope you can help.Raymond.

you might try asking this at Mintguy (T) 20:26, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

How many contributors to wikipedia?[edit]

The 'about' page says that there are more than 310,000 wikipedia entries. How many contributors created the collection?

It's hard to say exactly, there are lists of accounts, and lists of edits, but it is difficult to say how many of those accounts actually contributed meaningfully to the articles. Mark Richards 17:54, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Yes, it seems tricky (at least to me) to express the concept of a "meaningful contribution" in terms that a script could use to count. It's probably intractably hard to say how many of those accounts represent unique contributers (see Sock puppet). — Matt 00:22, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
As of this writing, there are 87,828 registered accounts on the english wikipedia. →Raul654 04:30, Jul 25, 2004 (UTC)
And there are an undetermined number of anonymous contributors, some of whom contribute only once and/or make a tiny change, and some who make many edits--but it's hard to say how many of them are unique. For example, I've been Englishizing the work of what I believe is a single non-English-speaking user working on Croatia-related articles for months, and every day that the person logs on, they have a different IP address. And this person has contributed a lot, but it's only one person. Elf | Talk 20:05, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Is it normal for a car radiator to slowly lose water?[edit]

I own a Cadillac Catera (1998). Recently its radiator started losing a lot of water: I'd fill it up one morning, drive it around, and in the evening the radiator "idiot light" would become lit on the dashboard: the radiator was dangerously out of water. After a few days of this, the car was placed in an auto shop where they discovered that the radiator was cracked and needed to be replaced.

The day after it was replaced and the car returned to me, I filled up the radiator, drove it on the freeway, and returned. In the evening there was a puddle underneath the car (arguably from rain, my father says) and the radiator had less water than it had in the morning. Not significantly less, but less nevertheless. My father says that it's normal for a car to lose radiator fluid during summer days especially if I run the air conditioner. He says that every car does it and should be simply refilled when the fluid gets low. However, my dad is far from an auto mechanic—he still pumps the accelerator whenever he starts the car while even I know that this practice has become obsolete with fuel injection.

How true is his point of view on simply refilling the radiator? The Wikipedia entry on radiators does not mention any leaking or loss of fluid. Further, exactly what would cause it to lose fluid? As I understand it, the fluid simply cycles through pipes, cooling the engine, then returns to the radiator. Please, tell me what you think of this whole situation. Thank you. --Cluster

It sounds to me as though you still have issues. All radiators will lose water in the course of their function, but you should not notice this in a day, I would take it back to the mechanic and ask them to look at it again. Mark Richards 17:47, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Exactly how much did it loose in one day (you should be able to find this out by measuring how much you add to bring it up to the 'full' level)? Mark Richards 18:07, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Barring the inevitable (hopefully gradual) leaks, the cooling system on your car is supposed to be a closed cycle, so it really shouldn't be losing water (in practice, hoses and seals are imperfect, so you'd expect to lose some, but a modern car should be able to go months without needing a top up). Assuming the mechanic tested the system at pressure after replacing the radiator, then the hoses and seals etc are okay. One thing that might, however, be complicating your measurement is the overflow tank - when the main coolant pressure rises too high, the release valve (in the cap) opens and squirts some fluid into an overflow tank, thus reducing the main coolant pressure back to a level that isn't going to make the hoses pop off. In olden times this overflow was just vented away, and so you'd frequently have to make up the loss with a topup. But modern cars have an overflow tank, which catches the overflow. After you switch off, the radiator cools and pressure in the main cooling system falls below atmospheric pressure. This makes a little pressure valve open, which sucks the overflow water back into the main cooling system, restoring things to the way they were at the beginning. This will not happen, however, if Curious George (i.e. you) opens the radiator cap before the overflow has been drained (i.e. if you waited until the radiator was cold enough to be safe, but not yet back to the ambient temperature, which would take at least an hour) then Curious George has restored the negative pressure in the cooling system by adding atmospheric air. In that circumstance there's unrecovered water in the overflow tank, and it looks like the cooling system has lost water. Doh! Drain the overflow tank (which may involve syphoning - never use your mouth to suck coolant, use a syringe) and top up the radiator.

I can't really see why running the A/C should make the cooling system lose water (other than the extra strain running the A/C compressor exacerbating whatever pressure-related malaise from which a car already suffers). You will often see water dripping from the A/C unit, but that's environmental humitity condensing on the outside of the cold A/C system (you'll see more of that if you live in a hot wet place like Mississippi or Thailand than you would in a hot dry place like Arizona or Saudi), and a modern car should have the cold pipes insulated to minimise this. Also remember that water drips from the exhaust, but that's made by burning hydrocarbons (i.e gasoline). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:11, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

German Rock band from the 70's[edit]

Hi I can imagine how busy you are but I wonder if you could point me in the right direction. In 1976 I worked for London Records in Calgary, Alberta ,Canada. They were distributing a number of artists including 10cc (polygram records) and a German rock band that was amazing. Of course since I remember very little of that decade, I can't remember the album name or the artist. Is there some archive you could send me to in order to find this group.I Know this must seem crazy to you but I assure you , to me it is of great importance.I would appreciate any help you could give me.

Thank You so much..........Marilyn Berg

The only German rock band of the 1970s I can think of (off the top of my head) would be The Scorpions. But I don't know if you could call them "amazing". Certainly amazing, but not really within any reasonable definition of "rock" is Kraftwerk. Yeah, you probably mean The Scorpions, but buy a Kraftwerk CD instead. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 03:05, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Or maybe it's The Scorpions' fellow travellers on the grim path of widdle-diddle teutonic hairmetal, UFO (band). Urgh. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 03:09, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Krautrock | chocolateboy 16:07, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It's hardly complete, but you can see if anything on Category:German musical groups jogs your memory.... Catherine | talk 18:43, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Marilyn, how about Triumvirat? They're still getting played - see Beaker Street. Catbar (Brian Rock) 04:29, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
See Triumvirat - Official Homepage for more details. Catbar (Brian Rock) 04:39, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I just thought about Nektar, too. Another prog rock group from Germany. Catbar (Brian Rock) 20:34, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)


I want to know the timeframe of when the Iliad and Odyssey were in relation to Greece and what was the period called Do you have any known articles about this

Homer's poems about life in Greece around the time the poems were composed / MAINLY REFLECTING TENTH-CENTURY CONDITIONS OR PERHAPS EIGHTH CENTURY CONDITIONS ?

You can look at Homer and Iliad and Odyssey. The Homeric Hymns were probably not by Homer. See here for a discussion of the problem of dating: 750 BC or so is one guess. - Nunh-huh 04:27, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)


This term is used by conjunctivitis and nowhere else on the internet. Is this a real term? If so, how is gowl produced, and from which parts of the eye is it discharged? --Eequor 09:42, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Some data points:
chocolateboy 19:29, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

bad hair days.[edit]

hi. my names leon and have just moved to russia after staying in egypt fore 8 months. am originaly from the uk, and bought with me on my travels, a hair care product called(DAX WAX- DAX WAVE AND GROOM). its made by the imperial dax componey in the usa. i have, since arriving in russia, depleated my supply, and need more. CAN YOU TELL ME WERE I CAN FIND THIS PRODUCT IN RUSSIA PLEASE? i did see it in egypt at the metro supermarket but it was the wronge dax, i need the dax in the red tin and they only had it in the blue tin. diferent kind of strength,you see? if you can help you would be saving a life. thanks.

Why not buy it online. In one quick google search, I found a long list of online stores selling the red tin. Kainaw 15:31, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Date of Russian Alexander II's death?[edit]

Was it on March 1, as it states in the article on the Russian Revolution of 1905, or was it on March 13, as it states in the Alexander II of Russia article? I'd like to be able to fix up these articles and add it to either of date pages, under the Deaths section - Ta bu shi da yu 13:01, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Both. March 1, Julian calendar, March 13 Gregorian calendar. See here for example. -- Arwel 13:11, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
He's already listed under "events" and "deaths" for March 13, by the way. Arwel
Cool. What do you think about adding his Julian death year to March 1? - Ta bu shi da yu 13:50, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
That sounds rather like overkill to me (sorry! :) ). Since he's already listed on the 13th I don't see the need to duplicate it. Logically, I'd favour having him on the 1st and not the 13th, since that was the date in Russia at the time -- but I can see the sense in converting it to the modern date too (but I doubt that the dates of many earlier Tsars since the introduction of the Gregorian calendar have been converted!). -- Arwel 14:07, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I see no problem having it on only one (or for that matter on both) page, but we should make it clear which dating system we are using where there's any room for reasonable doubt. - Nunh-huh 01:34, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There are rough guidelines on the calendar issue at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Calendars. Gdr 20:23, 2004 Aug 6 (UTC)

Larry Potter book publication year[edit]

I asked this question in Talk:Nancy Stouffer but got no responses. Any idea which year the book Larry Potter and His Best Friend Lilly by Nancy Stouffer was written/published ? Apparently she claimed J.K. Rowling used a similar sounding name for her star character. Jay 18:16, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A few minutes in google [53] dug up this [54] where the year 1984 is mentioned. --ssd 20:16, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)
hmmm.. there is some contradiction here. The website talks about The Legend of Rah and the Muggles (1984) and not Larry Potter and His Best Friend Lilly. The Nancy Stouffer article says the Larry Potter character didn't appear in the The Legend of Rah and the Muggles book. One of the websites is blatantly wrong. Jay 23:04, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Stouffer's site has an offer posted of "$100 for 1st edition Larry Potter books" - exceedingly weird that the author would not have any copies of her own book. (I have nothing to add to the conversation, I just found that odd). -- Wapcaplet 22:44, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Origin of Anointing With Oil[edit]

I was studying in 1 Samuel chapter 16, where Samuel anoints David with oil, and wondered where this practice originated. I understand it was a setting apart of David to be the next king of Israel.

My question is; Where/how did practice originate?

1Sa 16:3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show thee what you shall do: and you shall anoint unto me [him] whom I name unto thee. 1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

Exd 30:23-25 Take thou Also take for yourself quality spices, of pure myrrh five hundred [shekels], and of sweet cinnamon half so much, [even] two hundred and fifty [shekels], and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty [shekels], And of cassia five hundred [shekels], after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin: And you shall make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be a holy anointing oil.

Anointing has some info, also check Anointing with oil and Anointing of the Sick -- Chris 73 | Talk 02:53, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Shooting from the hip, so this comment is probably misleading, but it might move the discussion along — I recall that one of the early stages of Roman bathing is to rub yourself all over with oil (or have a slave do it), then scrape off the oil and accumulated dirt with a strigil. In which case, I can see how anointing with oil could be associated with cleanliness and by extension would be good for the sick. -- Solipsist 10:31, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I believe the greeks also did this. --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 10:26, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think the origins must be much earlier than the Greeks and Romans.

Trust metrics[edit]

What are trust metrics and how are they used? --Eequor 06:16, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Trust metric algorithms adopt a scalable and resilient approach to the assignment of credit (such as privileges or rank) to nodes in a network.
Examples include Advogato's trust metric and Google's PageRank.
chocolateboy 13:30, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The Web of Trust scheme used in PGP and related cryptosystems also contain as kind of trust metric. Other users are assigned 'reliability' scores and a combination of them is used to evaluate whether or not to trust a newly encountered identity certificate. It is essentially an alternative the to public key infrastructure scheme used by (all?) commercial certificate authorities such as Verisign. In those schemes, there is no trust metric, if the CA says this is a correct certificate and belongs to <whomever>, then that's it. ww 17:50, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

three pin plugs[edit]

What kind of three pin plug? Mains power plug lists several. UK three pin plugs (type G) were discussed here not so long ago [55]. Gdr 09:26, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)

United Kingdom Name[edit]

What year was the United Kingdom called United Kingdom? Thank You!

The term united kingdom was first used in the 1707 Act of Union. However it is generally seen as a descriptive term, indicating that the kingdoms were freely united rather than through conquest. It is not seen as being actual name of the new united kingdom, which was the Kingdom of Great Britain. The United Kingdom as a name is taken to refer to the kingdom that emerged when the Kingdom of Great Britain and Kingdom of Ireland merged on 1 January 1801. From History of the United Kingdom. Mark Richards 21:50, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What's that song?[edit]

Da da da da da, free my soul - I wanna get lost in your rock and roll, and drift away....

Arghhh. Help Intrigue 23:54, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Google is the best cure for lyric induced pain: [56] --bodnotbod 01:26, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)
Drift away, by Dobie Gray. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 02:09, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)
Interesting. --ssd 03:18, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Uncle Kracker's was the cover version

You can watch a video featuring both artists on Launch Salasks 16:11, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

Malcolm in the Middle[edit]

Our page on Malcolm in the Middle says there are 5 children, and Malcolm is third oldest (thus "in the middle"). However, I believe the cast list only mentions four. What gives? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 02:09, 2004 Jul 27 (UTC)

According to our wiki article, the fifth child is a baby born at the end of the fourth series. I guess the baby only has a crying part rather than a speaking part and so doesn't get credited in the cast list. -- Solipsist 10:24, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Several babies play the baby part on the cast. --Gerald Farinas 19:55, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The oldest brother is/was away from home (millitary school, awol, etc.), leaving Malcolm the middle of three. Anárion 08:33, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How does someone correct a false definition and inaccurate article content/ (Hapa)[edit]

(Moved to Wikipedia:Village Pump)

Need to know Tongan words translated to English[edit]

(Moved from Wikipedia:Village Pump)

I have a gentleman that only speaks tongan and I need some general works written in Tongan and english for my staff and i to use. Could some one help.

  • Example: Meal time
  • Ride
  • Bathroom
  • Shower
  • Shave
  • Change your clothes
  • join us for walk
  • join us for music
  • here is your medicine
  • here is a snack ie cookie, banana,
  • follow me please
  • lets go now
  • how our you today

Anyone that could hep translate so I can put on flashcards in Tongan and English wouldbe greatly appreciated my E mail me at hcstoney july26,04 Thanks

We don't usually reply by e-mail. You'll be answered here. — Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 05:04, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What you need is a little book called Functional Tongan-English English-Tongan Dictionary by Thomas Schneider. It contains the most used 2000 words of Tongan and English. The copy I have was printed in 1977 by Oceania Printers in Suva, Fiji and distributed through 'Atenisi University in Nuku'alofa, Tonga. I don't know if it's still in print. Look in ABEbooks to see if any used copies are available. The bookstore at Brigham Young University, Lai'e, Hawai'i, may be able to help you. They serve a number of Tongan students and Mormon missionaries going to Tonga.

If you can't get the little dictionary, Churchward's Tongan Dictionary might do, but it's so big and elaborate it might confuse you. Also try your local Mormon (LDS) stake -- they might have a Tongan emigrant who can help you.

I can make a stab at translating for you, but I'm not a native speaker of Tongan, I haven't used it much for twenty years, and there's NO WAY you can figure out how to pronounce the words just by reading them. Long vowels, no dipthongs, and glottal stops can be very difficult for English speakers. Also, I'm not sure what level of formality would be appropriate.

I'll show long vowels like this: [=a] is a long a. Hold for two beats.

  • Meal time -- Taimi ma'u me'atokoni.
  • Ride -- Heka motok[=a].
  • Bathroom -- Fale mal[=o]l[=o] (for toilet).
    • Fale kaukau, or kaukau'anga (for bathing).
  • Shower -- Saoa.
  • Shave -- Telekava.
  • Change your clothes -- Fetongi ho vala.
  • Join us for walk -- Te tau [=o] lalo.
  • Join us for music.
    • Te tau hiva. (Let's sing).
    • Te tau [=o] 'o fanongo ki he musika. (Let's go listen to music).

If there's just the two of you, it's ta instead of tau. Ta is dual, tau is more than two.

  • Here is your medicine -- Ko e faito'o eni.
  • Here is a snack ie cookie, banana.
    • Ko e ki'i pisiketi eni. (Here is a cookie).
    • Ko e fo'i siane eni. (Here is a banana).

I can't think of any good word for snack.

  • Follow me please -- Te u taki, pea muimui koe (I'll lead, you follow).
  • Let's go now -- Tau [=o] fakataha. (Or ta if it's just two).
  • How are you today -- F[=e]f[=e] hake he 'aho ni?

Zora 07:39, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Excellent work, Zora but... Some people are too helpful, aren't they? Imagine the fun someone could have had there with some well chosen phrases and a hidden video camera... It would have been like a Tongan Fawlty Towers. And who wouldn't want to see that? Especially with all the dual - ta and many - tau farce opportunities --bodnotbod 02:35, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)
We have Wikipedia:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense, but do we have anywhere to highlight startlingly good answers like this one. -- Solipsist 07:39, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Origin of the title "Earl of Rosebery"[edit]

Does anyone know why the name 'rosebery' was chosen for the title given to the Primrose family (Archibald Primrose of 1600's?). My last name is Roseberry, and we are trying to determine its origin. Many thanks!

Rosebery was the name of his estates in Scotland. The first titled member of the family was Archibald Primrose, of Dalmeny (1664-1723) who became Viscount of Rosebery, Lord Primrose and Dalmeny in 1700 and Earl of Rosebery, Viscount of Inverkeithing, Lord Dalmeny and Primrose in 1703, in the peerage of Scotland. The two sets of titles have different remainders, with the frst set going to hairs male of his body, filing which to heirs female therof, failing which to his heirs of tailly of the lands of Rosebery. The second set leave out the remainder to his heirs in tail.
I don't have a clue as to why the lands were called Rosebery, though. - Nunh-huh 19:47, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cauliflower/Cabbabe Family[edit]

I'm allergic to Ragweed; therefore, I can not eat Melons or fruit grown close to the ground that could be exposed to Ragweed. However, I'm in an allergic reaction right now with something I ate a couple of days ago. But the only thing different in my diet was cabbage one night and raw cauliflower the next.

Since these are close to the ground grown....Could they be exposed to ragweed as well to cause my allergic reaction? I itch all over when exposed.

Thanks you

C. Delores Bennett

It appears that ragweed pollen production has increased a lot the last few years, possibly due to global warming. I don't know about your allergic reaction. Mark Richards 17:52, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What is this song called?[edit]

"You can't always get what you can't always get what you can't always get what you want, but if you try you'll find, you get what you need" This song is featured in the new Cola C2 comercials and I'm trying to find this song. Ilyanep (Talk) 19:47, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Ah, youth<g>. The song is "You Can't Always Get What You Want", and it's by the Rolling Stones, recorded in 1968 and released in 1969 on their album Let It Bleed. - Nunh-huh 19:55, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
nh, I share your reaction. Pretty soon I'm going to be telling little kids about how I went to school by walking 12 miles uphill both ways and through 10 foot snowdrifts in September. Sigh.... To forestall another query, the launch of Win95 featured another Stones song, Start it up, as M$ had invented the breakthrough Start button on the Windows user interface. Probably start getting those soon -- it's been almost 10 years! ww 19:27, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Well, LAUNCH yeilded 100 entries or so. Thanks. Ilyanep (Talk) 23:03, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • Oh no, you don't get out of it that easy. It's a canonical song. Sigh, no sense of heritage. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod (TALKQuietly)]] 05:26, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)


Can anyone shed light on the origins of the English word, 'Help'?

    Help \Help\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Helped(Obs. imp. Holp, p.
    p. Holpen; p. pr. & vb. n. Helping.] [AS. helpan; akin to
    OS. helpan, D. helpen, G. helfen, OHG. helfan, Icel.
    hj[=a]lpa, Sw. hjelpa, Dan. hielpe, Goth. hilpan; cf. Lith.
    szelpti, and Skr. klp to be fitting.]
  • If you need any help parsing that, I'm sure someone can help. Of course, the other thing about the history of the word is that it is very short. People through the ages have benefited from this virtue in a way that the now extinct tribe of annakournikovanaxxylflangshasticinators could not. To appreciate why they were not successful in Darwinistic terms, try shouting "antidisestablishmentarianism" when you next fall into an unattended reservoir. --bodnotbod 03:12, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)
I know what antidisestablishmentarianism means. I need to spend less time on the 'net. Ilyanep (Talk) 03:33, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The direct etymology of help is from Old English helpan, where -an is an infinitive ending. In other words, the word was English from the start. --Gelu Ignisque

Siula Grande first ascent any route?[edit]

Who was the first to ascend Siula Grande in the Peruvian Andes? The article Siula Grande, and the film Touching the Void implies a German team had descended it in 1936, but I found no mention in newsgroups or on the web outside of Wikipedia.

Talk:Siula Grande has more questions.

Sources I've looked at so far:

-Wikibob | Talk 13:57, 2004 Jul 28 (UTC)

Maybe take a quick squiz at the Touching the Void book next time you're near a library... may have more detail than the film? Pcb21| Pete 14:05, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

On line training resources for VHF radios[edit]

Does anyone know of any on-line (free preferably) resources for 101 training on VHF handset use for basic communication? Thanks, Mark Richards 16:42, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What kind of radio? Amateur radio or something else? --ssd 12:22, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Not quite, just how to use VHF handsets, vehicle and base stations, radio protocol and programming / setup of radio networks for disaster response / coordination. Mark Richards 16:36, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Radio protocols are generally created by the licencee, although there are typically a few legal things to follow, depending on the band. There are probably large pools of protocols others use listed on the net, especially in by scanner groups trying to listen in. Programming and setup is probably described in the instruction manuals with the radios. Disaster response / coordination is described on the web pages for many volunteer organizations, such as ARES/RACES or the Red Cross or other organizations listed under Category:Disaster preparation. Many local, state, and regional authorities also have disaster plans, which may or may not be publicly available. If that isn't helpful, perhaps someone else can give additonal information. --ssd 22:47, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Grimwith England[edit]

I'm looking for history of Grimwith England. It's in North Yorkshire/Dales National Park. It's north of Leeds, Northwest of York. There is now a reservoir built in 1864 by Brandford Corp over the area. I want to know about the area before said reservoir.

Interestingly then name seems to mean "The wood haunted by a ghost or goblin", from Old English and Old Norse. Mark Richards 22:07, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Miura Aika[edit]

You have an article on Kawashima Azumi. Why don't you have an article on Miura Aika. For me, Miura Aika is as well-known as Kawashima Azumi, if we do not want to say thay Miura Aika is more popular than Kawashima Azumi.

Thank you for your attention and your prompt reply.

Hoang Pha

Be bold and write the article yourself. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod ......TALKQuietly)]] 23:48, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Grimwith England[edit]

I'm looking for history of Grimwith England. It's in North Yorkshire/Dales National Park. It's north of Leeds, Northwest of York. There is now a reservoir built in 1864 by Brandford Corp over the area. I want to know about the area before said reservoir.

Grimwith is Old English+ Old Norse for "the wood haunted by a ghost or goblin"

Thank you, Anne-- 22:48, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Defacing/Destroying British currency[edit]

OK, please bear in mind I'm talking United Kingdom law here: we often hear it said that it's illegal to deface British currency (ie, writing on the notes).

Furthermore, someone is now telling me that if you destroy rather than deface currency then that is a differnt matter and is not illegal - which sounds barmy to me. The K Foundation once burnt a million quid and we recently had a game show hosted by Jimmy Carr who regularly burned prize money in front of the audience (though it could well have been fake, I guess).

Can someone tell me what law talks about defacing currency and whether destruction is legal? --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod ......TALKQuietly)]] 23:43, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Well, it is illegal in many jurisdictions, for example, the US Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code "Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both." this is kind of fun!
However, you're talking about the UK... I believe that it is illegal to deface coins or notes in any way in the UK, however, you have to be caught doing it, not just in posession of notes to be prosecuted, and I'm not aware of any cases. Notes remain legal tender no matter how defaced or shabby they are, and, even if shops won't accept them, banks must. Do you have some specific plan? Mark Richards 00:01, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
One reason why defacing coins was made illegal was to discourage clipping and to make prosecution of it easier. Rumour has it that clipping was punishable at one time by removal or breaking of fingers, later by removal of hand, then later still by transportation or death. Mark Richards 00:11, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Heading off topic, but the reason that higher value coins have milled edges is to prevent clipping. Machines to mill coin edges were first designed by Pierre Blondeau in 1662 in France [57] and partly introduced into Britain by Isaac Newton when he became Warden of the Mint[58] and oversaw the recoinage of 1690s[59]. One of Newton's prime responsibilities when working at the Mint was to persue counterfitters and he is known to have had several people hung for the crime. -- Solipsist 09:45, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Heading even more off topic, in Britain the 19th century it was common for various tokens and foriegn coins to be used as a substitute for British ones, there was no law against it, and the French 10 centime was often accepted as an English penny. The foreign coins were not subject to the law on defacing coinage and occasionally these coins would be stamped with some advertsing slogan. Thomas Barratt or Pears Soap came up with a scheme to import 500,000 10 centime coins which he had systematically stamped with the words "Pears Soap" before putting them into circulation. The law was subsequently changed so that foreign coins could no longer be used as tokens for British ones. (This is part of an article on Pears Soap, that has been languishing in my sandbox for about a year) Mintguy (T) 12:44, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes,yes,yes..... can we get back on topic now please?  ;o) --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod ......TALKQuietly)]] 13:46, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

[This is rather a guess.] Might it be something do with defacing the Queen's image? That's a form of treason, I believe. As I said, however, this is very much just a guess.
James F. (talk) 15:08, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
No, I think you're on to something there. Also David Brent from The Office tells us that British postage stamps can be used as legal tender. "If you give them to the bus driver he has to take them." --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)]] 17:50, Aug 6, 2004 (UTC)
Nope. There are a lot of popular myths about British Legal tender and this is just one more. --
I can find no reference in current criminal law to destroying currency, but there are plenty of statutes about defacement. Concerning notes, the Currency and Bank Notes Act 1928 says If any person prints, or stamps, or by any means impresses, on any bank note any words, letters or figures, he shall, in respect of each offence, be liable on summary conviction to a penalty not exceeding one pound. The penalty was changed to £25 in 1977 (Criminal Law Act, s.31) and to £200 in 1982 (Criminal Justice Act, s.46). For coins, the Coinage Act 1936 has similar wording, but the penalty is imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year! This has since been repealed, by the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981: as far as I can tell, defacing coins is no longer a crime per se, though some defacements might run close to forgery. None of the Bank of England statutes that I could find made any reference to the destruction of notes, though as I'm not a financial expert there may be something tremendously convoluted about controlling inflation that might apply. Parts of the 1981 Act seem to imply that cutting bank notes into pieces can be considered counterfeiting, but that's a very strained reading.
I haven't had much success tracing the history of the issue. The 1928 Act seems to be the first reference in British law to bank note defacement; the Coinage Act 1861 (24 & 25 Vict c.99) says almost the same as the 1936 Act, but with a reference to Hard Labour. Nice! Beyond that, it gets difficult because it was not common practice to list repealed statutes - so searching for earlier laws is a long, hard slog. Couldn't find any treason references, but treason probably holds the record for most-amended-statute-of-all-time. Some of the Treason Acts mentioned forgery, but that's long since repealed. No references to defacing the Queen's image; perhaps that's in treason case law rather than an actual statute - could conceivably be considered as encouraging her death. I doubt anyone could actually be convicted for it.
Anyway, I suspect your original correspondent is correct (as long as it's your currency you're destroying). Barmy, perhaps, but that's what the law is like. --AlexG 16:16, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If a bank has to accept a bank note no matter how defaced - could one not cut one in half and hand in both halves seperately at different banks - thus making twice the ammount? --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 10:38, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The bank will ask how the note came to be missing one half. You'll have to lie (else they'll point out that you should have simply taped the note back together as sometimes happens). Obtaining money by deception is illegal. Jail time.
It's my understanding that in the case of Bank of England notes, damaged notes have to be sent to the Damaged Notes Section at the Bank of England with an explanation of what happened (they've heard everything from "left in pocket in the washing machine" to "eaten by the dog"!). They will pay out depending on how much of the two serial numbers are identifiable. -- Arwel 16:20, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Business Owners, Management[edit]

Who is the owners, investors, partners, management etc. for Cee Gee's in Carlin Nevada?

  • Hoover's Online reports two businesses by that name in Carlin, NV, and several more besides. The search results are here (I performed the search from a university workstation; I'm not sure if you'll see the same results at home.) The two businesses in Carlin Nevada — Cee Gee's Pizza (775-754-6968) and Cee Gees Saloon (775-754-6551) — are both owned by one Cindy Goddard, but no other relevant information is reported. I guess you'd have to call them to find out more. --Ardonik 02:06, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)
    • Also note that Carlin, Nevada is a town of 2,000 people in what is, by American standards, the middle of nowhere. I would imagine that a fairly large proportion of the town would know who owns and runs the local saloon and pizza place, if you visited there. --Robert Merkel 03:33, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Searching for my Page[edit]

I created a page called Elcaro Wiki Discussion. If I search for the page it does not return. Do I need to enable something so that my page is searchable.

This question is about Wikipedia itself, and should really be asked on the Wikipedia:Village Pump. In any case, I've checked your user contributions page (click on "my contributions" at the top of any Wikipedia page when you're logged in to check your own; to check somebody else's go to their user page and then click "user contributions" on the left), and it doesn't appear you've created a page with that title.
I have checked whether somebody deleted your page (I'm an admin), and that doesn't seem to be the case either; so either it was deleted more than a week ago, or the page never actually got created in the first place (for instance, if the Wikipedia was "down" while you were trying to save the page). I can't find your page in the deletion logs, so I'm betting that it was never created.
By the way, that page title doesn't sound like it's on a particularly encyclopedic topic. Wikipedia is not a general-purpose wiki; it exists to create an encyclopedia. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not for some suggestions if you want to use a Wiki for non-encyclopedic purposes. --Robert Merkel 08:49, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The "Chop off my legs" guy[edit]

Did that guy that was going to chop off his legs live on the Internet with a home made guillotine, actually do it, or is he still trying to raise the money, or did some surgeon do it for him, or was it a hoax, or what? Mintguy (T) 12:31, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think you mean this guy, (a slate article, another interesting one) Paul Morgan. appears to have been shut down. The stunt was scheduled for September 19th 2001, so I guess it didn't happen. Mark Richards 20:34, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Chatmoss Country Club[edit]

Homepage. I love these. What about it?! Mark Richards 20:43, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution function[edit]

Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution. I love these. What about it?! Mark Richards 20:46, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • I have absolutely no idea how to respond to these entries. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod ......TALKQuietly)]] 13:11, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
That's nice for you. We hope you'll be very happy together. DJ Clayworth 20:06, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Linux woes[edit]

Well I finally decided to get around to trying Linux. I decided to go for the “safest option” and run a live distribution from a cd (Morphix). I ignored the warning on the disc that read “read the instructions inside the magazine first” because I no longer had the magazine. So I just put it in the drive and rebooted. Everything went ok, I had a bit of a look around, decided there would be a very steep learning curve, and I really should look at a few books (there was no documentation on the cd at all!). Then I pressed the button on the DVD drive and nothing happened! Panic set in, as I realise that a bootable cd meant I couldn’t just switch off and on again. I has visions of prising it open with a screwdriver ( the computer is 4 days old I really didn’t want to smash it up) then I came to my senses and thought of changing the boot order in the bios. That worked so I did boot up Windows and get the disc out, but surely there must be a way of opening it from within Linux? Also when I tried to connect to the internet, it didn't dial up (I get broadband in two weeks yeah!) how do i tell it about dial up networking? theresa knott 19:01, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think you can eject a live distribution while the OS is in use - you have to shut it down and the last thing it does is eject the CD. However, if you insist on using one, Knoppix is about the most friendly Linux distribution I have ever seen (live or on-disk). →Raul654 19:11, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)
Indeed, the root filesystem is mounted off the CD, so the eject button is (quite rightly) disabled. I'd echo Raul's fondness for Knoppix. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:51, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I don't know about Morphix but Mandrake Linux (the distro I use) has a whole control center (very nice) that should recognize your dial-up modem. Problem is, it doesn't recognize my D-link DWL-520! (nor does any other distro I tried) :(. A good distro is Debian because it makes installing packages a lot easier, and it's what lindows is based on. Good luck. Ilyanep (Talk) 19:19, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

First off, if you have a built in 'winmodem', generally it is not worth trying to get Linux to recognise it. All hardware modems should give you a better shot at it. How old is the CD you're using? Using the most recent one will give you a much better crack at getting it going, as Raul says, Knoppix is the best at this. As for getting the disk out, when it's running, you can't, because it is a LiveCD, running from the disk. Shut it down using the icon that, I think, on Gnome, is a foot, but honestly could be anything depending on the theme. It's analagous to the start button on windows. There should be a 'log out' or 'shut down' option. Go for it, and the disk should eject. If it doesn't, turn the computer off at the power switch, and find the little paperclip hole on the front of your cd drive that hardware ejects the cd. HTH Mark Richards 20:31, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

If you want specific help about how to configue it to dial up, let us know what computer, and what version of Linux. Mark Richards 23:04, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your halp everyone. Now that I come to think of it, it makes perfect sense not to allow removal of the disc when the operating system is on that disc. But it does not eject when the computer shuts down :-( Anyway I found a quick way to get the disc out, by rebooting, pressing F1, watching the light of the DVD drive an opening it when it flashes. It then boots to Windows just fine. As for dialup, i think I may as well just wait a couple of weeks to I go over to braodband and try to get that to work instead.
I intend to run a dual boot system - what's the best way to do this let Linux shrink my Windows partition, or use something like Partition Magic? I have version 5 ( current version is 8) free on a magazine disc. Has anyone used that with XP - it says it's compatable with Windows 2000 but XP hadn't come out yet when version 5 was new. I'd rather not pay for the latest version if I can get away with an older one. theresa knott 00:29, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Unless you're strapped for cash, I'd avoid dual-boot like the plague. Partition management (of every flavour) can be a bit dicey, and windows frequently doesn't play nice with the boot sectors of other OSes (particularly when you need to reinstall XP, it'll generally write the drive's MBR, meaning your linux partition becomes unbootable, at least until you fix the boot partition after booting from some install media or liveCD). If you can at all afford it, get one of those cheapo removable drive caddy things (you know, it's just a slot on the PC's front, and a regular IDE hard drive goes inside). Then have one drive for booting windows, and another for booting linux. It's marginally less convenient than dual boot, but much safer. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:40, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I would like to echo Finlay's advice - dual boot is 10x more headache than it's worth. 'Tried it, *hated* it. Now I have two machines (XP for fun, Fedora Core 2 for work) and life is a lot happier. If you have an older machine lying around, put linux on that one. Just one comment - the "good" Window managers (read - friendly and intuitive) are very processor hungry. →Raul654 04:36, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)
Dual boot isn't that hard, although I would recommend making an emergency boot disk to repair the boot loader if something happens. The Grub boot loader is fairly robust and works well either from floppy or disk. Repartitioning is a bit dangerous, but if done right, works well. I think getting a second disk would be much easier and cheaper than the "drive caddy things". I sometimes install grub in the last cylinder on the disk, which windows invariably forgets to use anyway. --ssd 04:25, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Yes, dual boot isn't such a big deal. Get a nice tool such as Partition Magic to help you. The concerns about MBRs are valid, but if you can get your preferred OS to rewrite the boot sector you want, if Win overwrites it (a boot floppy would help), you should be fine, really. Dysprosia 14:00, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Partition Magic costs $$$; if you're looking for a no-cost no-frills alternative for resizing partitions, check out BootItNG Ambarish | Talk 18:08, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have used dual boot, and found it, as others said, a pain, but not insurmountable. The solution I came up with was to make a floppy or cd boot disk that boots to a partition on the hard drive. If that disk is in the drive, it boots to linux, if not, it boots to windows. Seriously though, hard discs are not expensive, get another one and don't mess around with partitioning. Mark Richards 15:15, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You have convinced me, I shall get another hard drive. theresa knott 19:22, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
tk, There's some preparatory mental flossing generally needed when dual booting, whatever approach one uses. Decide what sort you are, with the two choices being (at the boundaries) computer enthusiast for whom the system is the thing and the work done with a working system not, or a user for whom the whole bit (hardware, software, connectivity, ...) is just a tool. If there were squirrells inside making it all go, that would be just fine as long as nobody makes you feed them and they don't lose/damage your work. the former sort will be quite accepting of the reboot, reload, reformat, recreate cycle some software compells.
If you're the latter sort (even if only sometimes) then dataloss paranoia is quite appropriate. The problem (as always) is that where and how the data (=all that work you've sweated over, or acquired in other perhaps not repeatable ways) can get lost is very hard to foresee, even for the most knowledgable. Monkeying with your partition tables is quite foreseeable, of course, and the problem (even w/ Partition Magic which has a sterling reputation) is of course pilot error, common in inexperienced. The usual resort is to backups, so if lightning (fire/flood/theft/flocks of offended tits/...) does strike, the data will at least still exist (elsewhere will then be your fervent hope). In an era of 60GB disks and rather smaller data tape cartridge capacities (among those offordable by mortals w/o Gates' resources), this is not so simple as it might be. DVD burners are of course an alternative, but at 7GB or so current max, that's a lot of DVDs (and time and trouble) if your disk(s) is full. Currently the cheapest alternative is probably a second disk, but unless it's portable (and kept elsewhere, though regularly updated with the latest not-to-be-lost stuff) the second copy of your vital info might die the same dismal death as the first (in the next door drive bay).
There are several intro to Linux things available on the 'Net, with the Rute Guide being perhaps the most one_source of the responsible lot. There's also a lot of not so useful stuff. Check with the Linux Documentation Project for generally good stuff, though a bit fragmented, rather as the WP often is. The learning curve isn't as steep as you now think, it's just that you're hitting it pretty much flat on when you're undertaking to dual boot, or install a new operating system yourself, or, indeed, to manage your own computer. The M$ folk iterate and reiterate about ease of use, and even easier of use with the newest/latest (only a bit more $!) release, but neglect to note that 1) it's easy (whatever they think they mean by that) only for those migrating from previous versions with a back story of experience and knowledge, and 2) "you don't have to worry about system administration" is a pile of poop and a flat (and every other sort of shape) lie. Every machine -- unless you're one of those for whom data is disposable and recreatable without cost or trouble -- requires a keeper. Even kids -- who are far more self managing than these machines -- requires minders, pretty continuously. At least machines aren't motivated/driven/compelled/poossessed/drawn to get into trouble on their own hook. It's easily doable (by those with certain capabilities, a sense of caution (unless you're one of those ...), and some patience), but does require effort and perspective and a bit of prepatory mental flossing. ww 18:31, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Yes, dual booting with two hard drives (one for linux and one for windows) is definitely the way to go. The easiest way to accomplish this is:
  1. Install windows on the master hard drive. (I'm guessing you've already done this.)
  2. Swap the two hard drives. I.e., make the master the slave, and the slave the master. Should be a simple adjustment of jumpers and IDE cables.
  3. Install linux on the new master hard drive.
  4. Set up the boot loader to enable dual boot. Both lilo and grub can fool the system into thinking that the windows drive is the master and the linux drive is the slave, making windows happy. (Windows insists on its bootloader being present in the "master" drive, or it won't boot.) Many linux distros will detect windows on your original hard drive and set the bootloader up to fool the system automatically. In case your distro doesn't, here's an example of a lilo.conf set up to virtually swap the master/slave (specifically, the part about map-drive).
The advantage of doing it this way is that the slave hard drive (the one containing windows) is not touched at all by linux. Even if something gets majorly screwed up with the bootloader, your windows installation is safe, and in a worst case scenario you can simply swap the two drives back and boot windows with no problems. It's saved me a couple times. Good luck. :-) --Benc 22:04, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How do you propagate a Bambusa multiplex 'Alphonse Karr'?[edit]

You can order them over the internet here, although I don't know whether they are seeds or cuttings. Mark Richards 15:31, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

PK4 file format[edit]

When I installed Quake, Medal of Honor, and Call of Duty, I always see files being copied of the file type PK4 (it's always like "pak.pk4") or PK3 (honestly I don't remember). Can somebody tell me what this filetype is and give me a link to an article about it? I kind of guessed it had something to do with the 3D game thing, and possibly a proprietary file made by ID. Ilyanep (Talk) 15:35, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC) doesn't have anything on it, so it must just be an internal, proprietory files used only by those programs, to do something mysterious. They may even just be copied during installation, compiled into something else, and then deleted. Ever tried finding them and opening them in Notepad? They may be something really simple. — Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 15:51, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
A .pk4 is a renamed .zip file that contains the data files for a specific level(?) game etc that runs on a quake or similar engine. I don't know anything about the organization of files inside it. Mark Richards 15:55, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Ok, thanks a lot for your help


If I increase the frequency of a microwave, I end up with a wave that is an optical one. Now a microwave has an electric and magnetic field. What happens to the EM field when the wave is in the optical spectrum? [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 20:24, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)
There is no difference between optical and microwave radiation except the frequency and wavelength. In both cases, it is an EM wave, with connected electrical and magnetic components. --ssd 13:17, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
So in other words, light gets deflected by an electrical and magnetic field? [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 18:41, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)
In vacuum, neither light nor microwaves or any other form of EM radiation is deflected by electrical or magnetic fields, I believe. (In certain materials, there are various electro-optic and magneto-optic effects which can do this, through.) -- DrBob 07:04, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Nichalp, You have jumped right into advanced physics. Transparency, reflection, absorption, and such happen at all EM frequencies but they look rather differently to us. Perhaps an example might lessen some of the obscurity. Low frequency sound wave have very long wave lengths (10s of feet or (10/3)s meters) and are not blocked or reflected by even large obstacles (trees, houses, people, elephants). High frequency sound waves have very much smaller wavelengths and are blocked / deflected by each of the above. Same thing but different effects. Clifford Stoll recounts his PhD oral exam in which an examiner asked him why the sky is blue, and then kept asking for more detail with each answer. (See The Cuckoo's Egg). You have asked a similarly deceptively simple question. ww 18:39, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Isn't it the other way round, high frequencies cannot be easily blocked (the cell phone's principle)? I know it is an innocuous looking question, but I still don't know where the EM wave disappears if there is a frequency shift. [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 20:32, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
N, For sound in air on Earth, things are as I stated. Long wavelengths do indeed go right past even big obstacles whilst short warvlengths are interacted with (absorbed / diffracted / reflected) by those same objects. For EM, the situation is analagous, though more complex as involving such things as quantum mechanical effects rather sooner in the explanation. For EM, your referenced to frequency shift is obscure. EM can be absorbed and reradiated (not always at the same frequency). Is that what you meant? ww 19:17, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Ok, to clear this up: First, yes, there is no principle difference between radio waves, microwaves, IR radiation, optical light etc., see electromagnetic spectrum. All these have their electric and magnetic fields. Now the frequencvy makes the difference, of course. For example, an antenna recieves radio waves because the electrons in the metal pole that an antenna basically is are sent back and forth to both ends by the ocillating electric fields, and a rectifier like a diode can demodulate this signal. For visible light, the same happens, but the electrons oscillate so fast, that no electronics attached to the antenna could make use of it and demodulate it.
But, on the other hand, the moving electrons give rise to an electromagnetic field again, i.e. emit an EM wave. In other words, a conductor reflects an EM wave. This is, why metal sheets reflect radio waves as well as optical wave (the latter of course only, if the metal is bare and not coated or painted).
But if there is not enough space for the electrons to move, they cannot emit a wave: So, a radio wave with a few meters wave length will not be reflected by a metal screen of a few centemeters size. The wave simply goes through and around it. The microwaves of cell phones (millimeter wavelength) easily go through large appertures in metal sheets, like say, the window of a car chassis, but not through even thin sheets with holes smaller than a few centimeters. (This is, my your microwave oven might have a metal grid with small holes glued to the glass door: it protects you from the radiation inside.)
Reflection also does not work, if the electrons cannot move fast enough to follow the field. For example, electrons in copper can follow the fast oscillations of reddish light, but not the even faster oscillations of blueish light. This is, why only the red part of the spectrum is reflected, giving rise to copper's distinctive colour.
However, the oscillations can now be violent enough to tear the electrons out of the metal into open air/vacuum. But here, the picture of the EM wave becomes indeed flawed, and the correct explanation of this so-called photoelectric effect, as given by Einstein, marks the beginning of quantum mechanics, so, see these articles for the rest of the story. Simon A. 16:50, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
What do you mean by "the EM wave disappears if there is a frequency shift" ? The EM wave exists at any frequency. It is only visible in the range our eye is designed to detect. --ssd 03:50, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Actually, I've confused myself. Really, what I want to state is that a microwave has two components perpendicular to the direction of propogation of the wave: An elecrtic (Ez) and Magnetic field (Hz). Above this lies the optical spectra, where these two are absent. I wanted to know what happens to the above two fields. [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 19:32, Aug 6, 2004 (UTC)
But the electric and magnetic fields are not absent for optical waves. In fact, they are what is "waving" in a light wave. The only difference between microwaves and light waves (and gamma rays, and radio waves, and all electromagnetic waves) is the frequency at which those electic and magnetic fields are oscillating. Transverse electric and magnetic fields are present in all cases (for a wave in free space). -- DrBob 19:53, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Now, go and read the article on polarization which explains all of this in even greater length, featuring some nice drawings. Simon A. 16:19, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Is there an article on waving of light in wikipedia? The polarisation at first glance is a bit too technical. I'll have to sit for an hour to understand all ;). [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 20:21, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)
No, but there is an article on light, which has a wavy picture at the end. This article could do with some more explanation. There's an article on the web that mentions an obscure effect called Delbrück scattering that can allow an EM field to deflect light, but only under extreme conditions. There is another effect called magnetic lensing (see this paper) which is said to bend light near neutron stars. In other words, light is qualitatively like all other kinds of EM radiation, but it takes much bigger quantities of EM field to bend it. -- Heron 17:01, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Heron: But you should be aware that also radio and microwave are not very impressed by magnetic fields. Actually, a static, homogenous magnetic field should not at all be able to get a microwave out of its path, and I wonder whether non-homogenous field could achieve it. Simon A. 17:45, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, just about managed to understand some more on optics [[User:Nichalp|¶ nichalp | Talk]] 20:12, Aug 10, 2004 (UTC)

Italian royalty killed in WWII camps?[edit]

I read something once about an Italian princess, who perished in a German concentration camp in WW2. No more information than that, does anybody know who I'm talking about (and do we have an article?) Rhymeless 04:58, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You're thinking of Mafalda: HRH Princess Mafalda Maria Elisabetta Anna Romana of Savoy, wife of SS officer Philip von Hessen. In 1943, Hitler ordered all German princes discharged from the Wehrmacht. Philip, Prinz von Hessen was arrested, turned over to the Gestapo, and sent to a concentration camp for political prisoners after informing Hitler of Italy’s inability to continue fighting. Hitler took revenge for the escape of the King of Italy, Victor Emmanuel, Mafalda's father, from his clutches by arresting his daughter. Hitler had never cared for Mafalda personally and had made disparaging remarks in his diary about her intellect and looks. Mafalda was taken to Germany on the pretext of joining her husband but was instead thrown into Buchenwald. Eleven months later she was badly burned and her arm was injured during an Allied air raid. Left unattended for four days, she died of a hemorrhage after her arm was amputated. -- Nunh-huh 20:03, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Takes a while to find things: Our article resides at Mafalda Maria Elisabetta of Savoy (so someone needs to either know three of her given names to find it or track her down from the House of Savoy article because one knows that they were Kings of Italy.) I'll make a redirect from Mafalda of Savoy and Mafalda of Italy; when we have articles on other Mafaldas they can become disambiguations. - Nunh-huh 20:16, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Classification term needed[edit]

I have a question which may really be part of cladistics; when encountering Tavolara island , which was formerly a kingdom centuries ago, and which has formally not ceded sovereignty to Italy, how does one classify something which is clearly on the wane but not yet extinct. It seems crazy to write something off to history when there are real people still living on a real island; this topic really doesn't belong in the List of extinct nations yet. The topic is similar to the List of endangered species, or List of Ethnic groups. What is the term for this condition? Who studies this? The issue is a loss of vitality for the subject of study, be it a small island kingdom, a species, an ethnic group, or a language on the wane. Ancheta Wis 07:11, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A term can be generally useful but still slightly imprecise in its meaning. -- Jmabel 20:59, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
Before I read the article I though 'obsolescent' would be ideal but it's more commonly used to describe things that technology has almost (but not quite) replaced. Maybe 'dwindling' or 'shrinking' would do for a dying village although they don't answer your question. adamsan 20:09, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ankhs and money[edit]

Does anyone know what the link is between the ankh symbol and money? For example, money clips with an ankh seem to be very common, and the Bond Street tube station in London is decorated with an ankh. But I've been searching on the web for half an hour and I can't find a connection. Am I making up a connection where none exists? For the most part it seems to mean good health and long life; perhaps I'm misinterpreting what it's representing in the Bond Street station. Elf | Talk 18:31, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think the Bond Street tiles are actually meant to represent a stylised gift: blue-green striped wrapping paper, and a black ribbon. It's quite hard to interpret, actually; my first thought was a chi-rho symbol, but since it's in a shopping district I believe it's more likely to be something much more mundane! No idea about the ankhs, though. Maybe someone just thought it looked nice, though it would be satisfying if there was some interesting connection beyond that. --AlexG 17:38, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Oh, like, wow, man, I guess i was just taking the wrong drugs! I see what you're talking about--that makes a lot more sense. Elf | Talk 20:08, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Pinback (the band)[edit]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me about Pinback. I love their music but I don't know much of anything about their albums or history. My friend Drew gave me some their stuff, but he's in Europe for the summer...thanks.

p.s. do i need to watch this page or if someone responds to this does it get messaged to me? JoeSmack 20:15, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC) p.s.s. wikipedia rocks and it keeps me massively entertained at work.

Yes, Wikipedia generally posts answers to questions right beneath the questions themselves. --Gelu Ignisque

Pinback Bio courtesy Artist Direct

BTW, it's p.p.s. -Salasks 16:50, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)