Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/June 2006 part 2

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See Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/June 2006 for the archives of June 1 to June 15 2006.


June 16[edit]

Permanently enlarged text in Mozilla Firefox[edit]

I'm looking to permanently enlarge the text in web pages in Firefox, as the native resolution on this new monitor is too honking fine for me to comfortably read a lot of sites (such as the left column here). While I can find the setting for minimum font size, what I really want is to duplicate the effect of the Ctrl+"+" hotkey which enlarges all text, preserving the relative font sizes. Unfortunately, said hotkey isn't persistent across browser sessions. Anybody know how to make an effect like that persistent? — Lomn | Talk 00:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Tools > Option > Content > Font & Color -- Миборовский 00:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, that just forces all fonts to one size, not the relative size differential. — Lomn | Talk 03:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
You sure about that? I tweak my font size to 17 in Firefox on the Mac, and the sizes of headers etc. change proportionally, since at least on Wikipedia, they're done with <h2> tags (etc.); I assume those are the things you're talking about whyen you say "relative font sizes". --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
So it does... I wasn't seeing any effect poking around in the 14-16 range but going to 17 made an impact. Thanks! — Lomn | Talk 03:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Control + and Control - work in firefox --Froth 17:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but it reverts when I close the browser. I want to lock in those settings. — Lomn | Talk 04:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


Is it possible to balance an egg your head? This has always intrigued me... I can't do it, I am just wondering if anyone can. Political Mind 00:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Given enough hairspray (and hair) I'm sure I could handle half a dozen :D --inksT 01:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Depends on what state the egg is in - a poached, scrambled or fried one would sit rather comfortably, although you should let it cool down first, particularly if you have short hair / are bald. But it also reminds me of my favourite surrealist joke - "A guy walks into a bar with a fried egg on his head. The barman says 'Hey, why've you got a fried egg on your head?' The guy says, 'Because a boiled one would roll off, idiot'." Proto||type 08:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I mean a normal egg, still in the shell. Political Mind 23:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Try it, I suggest hard-boiling it first, the boil shouldn't affect it's balance, but it will affect the clean-up. Emmett5 23:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I have tried it. Political Mind 01:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It's quite easy to balance one raw egg. I can also balance 18 raw eggs on my head at the same time in the carton. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 02:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
  • You are all assuming a hen's egg,try a wild bird's egg ,they are usually much smaller and therefore easier to balance. I'm sure I could balance a blackbird's egg on my head,but it's not nesting season anymore so I can't prove it.hotclaws( 07:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC))
I can't think of any particular reason that a typical hen's egg (like you buy at the store) could not be balanced as you suggest. I'm not saying that it would be easy, but it should be possible.–RHolton– 18:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It is possible, and not that difficult. Here is a picture of me doing it this afternoon:

Ship me to Wayne's World[edit]

I'm staying in Chicago for a while, and the movie Wayne's World takes place in Aurora, IL, a suburb of Chicago. Was it filmed there? Can I visit places in the movie?

According to Aurora, Illinois, it was not filmed there. But if you want to visit Stan Mikita's, a Tim Hortons anywhere in Canada will do. Adam Bishop 06:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
According to imdb, it was filmed there, as well as Cerritos, California, Chicago, Illinois, Covina, California, Los Angeles, California, Mesa, Arizona, Scottsdale, Arizona and West Covina, California. User:Zoe|(talk) 15:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


Where do you get the Atari, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, & Transformers tshirts?

I'm looking for the orignal Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles logo on a black shirt, & how did the Transformers tshirt style start?

Also, where do you get the fiber bacelets & necklaces? I've been trying to find that style that the most people wear for males. Is it made of hemp or somthing? [Something like that, right?] & where do you get the chain bracelet? Its like a bike chain.

Please, you can contact me [email address removed to prevent spam].

Thanks 06:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It would help if you stated where you live. In the United States, you can find a store called "Hot Topic" in approximately every other shopping mall, and they carry exactly this type of merchandise. --LarryMac 13:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
??? I live in the US and have never heard of Hot Topic. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
You must live near those other shopping malls.  ;-) --LarryMac 17:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, to anwswer your question, I live in Canada. But since I REALLY need/I guess want this stuff, I will do anything to get this shit. Maybe you could order this stuff for me?
Thanks, once again my email is [redacted to prevent spam]; please.
Thanks. 06:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not really in the mail-order business; have you tried ebay?
Yes I have, thanks, but can't find what I'm looking for!:-P:-D
Please, (removed email to prevent spam)
Thanks 22:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could find these items on ebay

good questions[edit]

where can i find a list of good or interesting questions and answers that have been asked on the ref desk.

Best you can do it rootle around in Wikipedia:Reference desk archive. If you want to put together a Best of the Desk, umm, that'd be fine :) --Tagishsimon (talk)
There is a pilot scheme in action at the moment on the Science desk to mark "exemplar questions", but it's only been running about a month, so there isn't much done yet with it. Grutness...wha? 11:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Keep coming back here; there are guaranteed to be plenty of interesting questions and answers. Whether or not they're good, however, is another story all together. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 00:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


Ques. #1; How many people were born in the US in 1935? Ques. #2: Is it possible to know how many of those born in the US in 1935 are still alive today?

1) Not sure, I'll look it up for you,
2) It's 2006 now, so anyone born in 1935 would be (2006-1935 = 71) 71 years old, so I'm guessing there are quite a few people still alive in America who were born in 1935: what's need is a [65 years and over: 12.5% (male 15,542,288/female 21,653,879) (2006 est.) recent census] (from CIA World Factbook), but the age breakdown only goes as far as 65 here...the United States Census, 1930 is lacking in detail too, with just a summary of population, and is 5 years before your query.
Try the humanities reference desk, you may get a more coherent answer!
Don't forget to sign your posts using --~~~~!
EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 13:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

African peace[edit]

where can i get a list of English speaking countries in Africa that are at peace, i wanna go on holiday to a tropical/jungle type area in africa, but i want to live through it and not have a problem with the language. I have already been to South Africa, Namibia, Botswana. So other than those? Thnks

Map of nations using English as an official language
Geographic areas with ongoing armed conflicts.

These two images should answer your question. Philc TECI 13:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, may I recomend zambia, the Victoria Falls are worth a visit. Philc TECI 13:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It appears that Phil's maps leave us with Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ghana, Cameroon, Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Botswana, South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland and Namibia.

Sierra Leone and Liberia were recently in civil war, so the tourist infrastructure probably isn't well developed. Zimbabwe is a mess right now. Botswana and Namibia are peaceful and relatively modern, but there's not much to see unless you like deserts. (And from the pictures, Windhoek looks like it's in Canada.) South Africa is a beautiful country, but don't step into the wrong neighborhood. Lesotho and Swaziland are teeny. French is bigger than English in Cameroon, I think. Kenya and Tanzania are famous safari destinations. Wikitravel recommends Ghana for a first trip to Africa. I don't know what to say about Nigeria other than that Lagos is probably not a place for a fun weekend.

It's probably best not to limit yourself to "English-speaking" countries. People involved in tourism the world over learn English, and you can always use phrasebooks. -- Mwalcoff 23:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I know someone who recently went on a tourist safari trip in Tanzania and loved it. --Fastfission 02:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

oh and if your white, you might want to avoid zimbabwe. Philc TECI 17:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


What kinds of wine are good to have with grilled steak? Siri.

One would assume red wine with red meat (in contrast with white wine with white meats (chicken etc) and fish). Rosé could provide a nice, refreshing wine if you're having a barbeque outside on a hot afternoon though. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 13:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Whatever kind of wine you like. I don't care for white much and tend to drink red with white meat. Don't worry about other folks opinions and what they think. Just enjoy yourself. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I would recommend a Cabernet sauvignon or a Syrah. Chuck 18:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
That is a favorite on Saturday Kitchen. Kilo-Lima|(talk) 19:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Australian Shiraz has a good strong flavour that suits red meat and there is a sparkling version which is good for BBQ's but hey only wine snobs care about the white/red stuff which was invented by the Victorians to keep the lower middle class in their place anyway.....hotclaws( 07:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC))
I do not drink except to mark rare occasions or epiphanies since I am genetically predisposed to intoxication (which I now compensate for by indulging in the Wikipedia, ha-ha) but have you tried Merlot? ...IMHO (Talk) 18:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright question[edit]

I'm looking for some help determining whether a few images are in copyright or not. It's a bit long but I'll try to keep it as short as I can.

  • I'm looking for a photo for the Jim Hall (boxer) article. He died in 1913, so any photos of him were obviously taken before then.
  • This photo is the one I've seen used most often. The "Dana Photo SF" on the print refers to Dana Studio in San Francisco, who specialised in boxing photos from 1900-1916. The photographer, Percy Dana, was born circa 1865. There doesn't seem to be any indication of when the photo was published.
  • {{PD-US}} says images published before 1923 in the US are PD only in the US. {{PD-old-50}} says the same thing, and the author died 50 years ago (1956). I haven't yet been able to determine when Dana died (he would have been 91 in '56), but I'm not sure if it is OK to assume the photo was published before 1923 (since the photography studio closed in 1916).
  • Alternatively there is this ("circa 1895", no info about the ownership of the photo though), this (published in 1910 - but in Britain) and this (no info i could find)

So in short my question is whether (1) it is OK to use the first, under the assumption it was published before the photography studio closed and/or the subject died; (2) either of the second lot i've listed (in particular, the British one) are OK; (3) it's best to make no assumptions and try to find a new photo/concrete info; or (4) this is completely the wrong place to ask this question... Thanks — AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you tried asking at Wikipedia talk:Copyrights. They are helpful. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll try that. Thanks. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
If memory serves, an image published 1910 in the UK should be fine... at least in UK law. Shimgray | talk | 22:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Using similar slogans[edit]

We would like to use the slogan got Realtors??? get Results!!! Is this okay since this is similar to the "Got Milk" slogan?

Create a new article[edit]

i have been skimming all of your files, but I cannot find any simplified instructions on how I may go about creating a new article. Can you please provide me with instructions on how to accoplis this?

Darris Johnson

As you've already got an account, first go to where the page should be, either by clicking on a red link or typing the name in the search box and clicking 'Go', then click 'Start the (whatever) article' on the resulting page, or 'edit' at the top. Help:Starting a new page has the full instructions, and Wikipedia:Your first article should be read first (it's not that long and can save you a lot of bother). Future questions on how to use Wikipedia should go the the Help desk. --Sam Blanning(talk) 15:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking For Gmail Invite[edit]

I'd like you use gmail but can't find anyone to invite me. --Username132 (talk) 16:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll invite you if you leave your email on my talk page. TastyCakes 16:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
One can also sign up with a cell phone. zafiroblue05 | Talk 23:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Graduation Class System[edit]

In the United States and now over here many schools are creating yearbooks and year photographs etc. The title of these is often "class of....". How does this system work? is it the date the students arive or the date they leave? if so if I was doing a year 11 yearbook (current year 11) would I use: Class of 2001 (entry year), Class of 2006 (some are leaving this year) or Class of 2008 (the rest are leaving in '08)???? Please help I need to get the yearbook off to print and I am unsure as to which to use.

Many thanks James

It's supposed to be the year they graduate (for example, for high school, I was in the "class of 98"). This is not necessarily the year they leave, depending on how your education system works. Adam Bishop 18:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou, but I am still unsure whether it is class of 06 or 08??? Can anyone help?

If the person graduates this year, they would be in the class of '06. If they graduate in two years, they would be in the class of '08. Normally, if a person graduates early because of skipping a grade or whatever, a person will use whatever year they actually graduated in. They may go on to say, "Well, I was supposed to graduate in '08 but I skipped two grades and graduated in '06." If they are still in school and don't expect to graduate early, by skipping or whatever, then they will say "I'll be in the class of XX". Dismas|(talk) 20:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
The yearbook itself should simply be called QuaintName 2006. (My high school yearbook was "Sequin YYYY", my college's I won't even name, save to say "hooray for faux-Native American names!"). If you have separate photographs of the year 11 students leaving this year and those leaving in '08, you could label them "Class of '06" and "Class of '08" respectively. If you have one photograph of the whole group, then it might best be labelled "Year 11, May 2006" or something like that. --LarryMac 20:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much I shall do that.

It's worth noting that many UK schools have in the past used the year to be the year of arrival, and a few still do for the sake of consistency; I've had to deal recently with a large collection of records whose "year" was given consistently as 1910 rather than 1915 for (arrived 1910, left 1915). The year-of-mass-leaving system is, IMO, the more sensible one. Shimgray | talk | 22:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Name saying[edit]

I am wondering how to pronnonce the name diem i believe it would be someome from vietnam. I just want to know how it is said.

DIE-em or DEE-em, I would think. Not so sure on my Vietnamese. Kilo-Lima|(talk) 19:30, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

That sounds nearly right thanks for the info.

It's one syllable. DYEM. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
See Ngo Dinh Diem for the pronunciation. The D should NOT be pronounced as in English, but like a y. DHN 01:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Do wiki delete contents on the my talk portion of user space[edit]

Do wiki delete contents on the my talk portion of user space ? Thanks.

Not unless someone deletes it themselves, it's not automated. Edit: There might be some bots that clean up inactive user pages. Wizrdwarts (T|C) 18:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

2005 company slogan[edit]

In 2005 there was a company slogan "Always thinking so you don't have to." I would appreciate knowing what company it was? Possibly banking, insurance or investment firm

TechGeeks? --LarryMac 20:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Copyright clarification[edit]

The US Copyright web site says that all images and documents are automatically copyrighted when they are created without having to be registered and that it is only prior to an infringment suit that the creator must register his copyright. Therefore in the copyright article where the word "copyrighted" is used does this mean pre-registered copyright or post-registered copyright? ...IMHO (Talk) 20:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

There is no difference unless you are filing an infringement suit. --Fastfission 00:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
So then you are saying that if an image is posted that is tagged as public domain or released and then the copyright is registered that this is no clue that an infringment may actually exist and a law suit may be impending? In other words isn't it a bit unlikely that a registered copyright or that copyrighted material that has been registered is also public domain or released by the owner or is published under a free license, one of which every uploaded image on the Wikipedia must have? ...IMHO (Talk) 13:38, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Isn't an "infringement suit" one of those outfits fancy cowboys wore, with hanging leather fringes ? :-) StuRat 12:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

captains that go down with the ships[edit]

I would like to read about captains going down with their ships. When, why, how often, etc. Sinking ship has a reddish hue. -lethe talk + 22:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you tried Enron? 00:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
It may not be an exclusively British tradition, but it's certainly part of the "British rules about death". There was a great line spoken by William Holden in Bridge on the River Kwai. It went something like: "You people have the stench of death about you. You're always concerned about dying by the rules, dying like a gentleman - when what's really important is living like a human being". JackofOz 01:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I 've heard one reason is so that in the inquiry afterwards the captain can be blamed and isn't there to say otherwise (See inquiry into the Titanic Sinking) . It's to do with responsibility. The captain is responsible for all souls on board,therefore in the event of a disaster he has to get everyone off first then himself.If there wasn't time then he naturally went down with the ship.There are various literary examples of this but all I can think of right now is "The boy Stood on the Burning Deck" which is supposed to be based on a true incident and "Wreck of the Deutchland" but you go way metaphysical with that one.I'll get back after I've looked in all my shipwreck books and see if I can come up with any more....hotclaws**==( 07:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC))
Do captains do that still nowadays? -lethe talk + 07:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
For the record, Enron's captains took all 47 lifeboats out, leaving the employees with a broken bilge pump and a bunch of wet cardboard boxes to bale out the ship with. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 00:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

If would like to read about it, read about the tinaic that is the most famous case of this. When this will happen. When this happens, this usually happens because the window of oppurtunity at a time before see that all the passengers and or crew have left the ship. In such case the captains death cannot be seen as willfull but incidental to performance of duties. The captain might go down with ship if the circumstances where their would be no way for every one to survive. Such relates the idea that the captain a protector if their is a limited resourse it must be given to his protectees his crew and passengers. Regarding why it does, the captain is legally and morally responsible for everyone on that boats safety, as such is expected not to secure his own saftey before everyone elses safety is secured. Further as the captain of the ship he knows the most ship and thus would the best position to make sure that know one is left behind. Regarding how common, now it is not that common because commutions recue methods make the rescue process quicker and more likely to succeed. Even before rescue methods going down with the ship even if duty demanded such was not universal. Captainship is one of the few leadership possition where the leader usually shields takes danger before his underlings. Now a days for example generals never are anywhere near danger. In bussiness and poltics, their is always a fallguy and it is never the boss.


I friend and Iare in an argument. We are both good friends with a boy from Vietnam named Duy Nyugen. He (as a joke) has refused to tell us the proper pronunciation to his last name, and has bet us we won't ever get it. He returns from a camp in about a week and was hoping to surprise him with a banner with the pronunciation key to hi last name on it... any suggestion on how it is properly pronounced or a place to find out?

For one thing, are you sure it's Nyugen and not Nguyen? Nguyen is a common Vietnamese name. —Keenan Pepper 23:12, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
And we even have an article on it, with a sound clip of the pronunciation: Nguyen. —Zero Gravitas 23:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC) Okay, I'm an idiot and didn't see the link above.
I added it after I realized we had an article, so don't worry, you're not going crazy. =P —Keenan Pepper 00:33, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about Nyugen, but the common Vietnamese name Nguyen is pronounced like 'win.' Reywas92 02:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

But this does bring up the question of why they chose to spell it such an odd way in English instead of, say, I don't know, "Win" ? I can only assume that the correct pronunciation is something like "nahgWIN" with the "nahg" part greatly de-emphasized. They must feel that "WIN" is as close as English speakers can come, so settle for that. StuRat
I would suggest "Doy New-an".
They chose to "spell it in an odd way in English" because that's how the name is written in the language. DHN 01:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

when are criminal convictions spent?[edit]

in my youth i was stupid enough to get into trouble with the law in northern ireland. i was 16 and got sentenced for a number of crimes. most of these are now spent as i am now 27 and have kept my nose clean but there is 1 that is still haunting me. it was a three year sentence i got back in 1995, i know that usually a sentence of more than 2 1/2 years are never spent but the law also says that its different if your under 18 at the time. i hope somebody will be able to put my mind at rest and give me an answer because i find it hard to get a job, as soon as an employer asks about criminal convictions and i tell him i get a nice smile and a we'll be in touch and are never heard from again.

Well, in the US, your criminal record is usually wiped clean at 18 (but not for serious crimes), I would imagine it's similar for N. Ireland, but you should probably consult an attorney. Wikipedia cannot provide legal advice. Emmett5 23:32, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The term, at least in the US, for having your criminal record wiped clean, is having your record "expunged". StuRat 12:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Our article Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 will give you the answer as it applied to England and Wales. Basically, it says that for offenders under the age of 18, the "rehabilitation period" is 5 years before their record is wiped clean. I am 99% certain that the law would have also applied to Northern Ireland, but you may wish to contact the people at the Office of Public Sector Information to make sure, and also to check that there have been no amendments since then that have changed the time period for "young offenders". If you want further advice and don't have the option of speaking to a solicitor or other legal representative, you may wish to try your local Citizens Advice Bureau. They may be able to direct you to the correct official who will be able to put your mind at ease. Road Wizard 00:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

If I you I would simply begin your resume begining with when you got out of jail. As you where 18 or 19 the employer probablly would just assume you where attending secondary school (espessally if you actually completed secondary school while in prison) even if you clearly wherent doing that employer would probablly assume that you simply did adolencent thing of dropping society. I have a cousin who droped out of high school, and for while lived basically homeless, but later returned to life and school. Employers would assume such as explain a blank time. Few employers who want hire an adult for an adult possition would spend great deal of energy trying uncovering your adolences. If the records are sealed as has been suggested then their is no way you will found out. However it is also true that even they new about the arrest (depending on what the arrest was for) they would not hold against you, and if you came out openly about it, such migh actually advance you in your employers. By admiting it (espessally if it cant easily be found out)you prove your employer your honest, it would also sure employer that you can adapt and mature.

Graham Coxon's Freakin' Out[edit]

Does anybody know which British TV program uses the intro to Graham Coxon's Freakin' Out as its own intro? It's really bugging me. Anand 23:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

June 17[edit]

Can you be more specific? You may want to read the article June 17.-- 01:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Stupidest repley of the day. Or ever, replying to a date banner!! Philc TECI 01:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
No, seriously, June 17!
(This has got to be the funniest thing I have ever seen at the RD!) Loomis51 01:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree, this is actually "laugh out loud" hilarious! --Froth 03:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been laughing for 5 minutes, and I don't know how to stop. Help !!! JackofOz 03:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Suicide probably works (but I haven't actually tried it, caveat emptor). --ColourBurst 06:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
That's great advice, CB. If it works, I'll come back and haunt you. (lol) JackofOz 10:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh dear. Suitly emphazi, pastatutes, and now June 17. Grutness...wha? 05:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
What's also funny is that people are keeping track of - remembering - these things! zafiroblue05 | Talk 07:25, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
For the curious, see User:Cernen/Reference_desk_in-jokes -- SGBailey 07:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, now don't you go dragging me into this. I'm sitting idol. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 09:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Let's not forget about vurnable pastatutes. JackofOz 08:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
  • You've got it wrong,it's June-girl's name and 17-her age and someone is looking for her--hotclaws**==( 07:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC))

Wikipedia content in academic papers[edit]

Now don't blame me for cheating or anything - it's summer and I've been out of school for a month. Here's my question: Is copying text from wikipedia plagiarism if you were one of the major contributors to the article? Say I wrote an article. Others improved it of course, though not dramatically; mostly they made wikification changes, added a little content to satisfy NPOV, etc etc. If I copy large blocks of text (text that I know I wrote entirely, and was largely unchanged by others) and put it in a paper, and a professor runs one of those "anti-plagiarism" programs, can I get in trouble?

This is entirely hypothetical and I've never actually written a full article on my own.

All hypotheticals aside, basically what I'm asking is do I forfeit my rights to the content I submit? I'm afraid I didn't see anything like that under the GFDL.

--Froth 03:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

No, you can still use content you submit to Wikipedia for any other purpose as well. The only right you forfeit by submitting it is the right to stop others from using it too. If you subsequently use the same material in an academic paper, you risk having the awkward situation of being accused of plagiarism, and it's too much to expect your professor to look at the article history and see that the major contributor happens to have your name (and your username may bear no resemblence to your real name anyway). You can explain yourself, and if need be prove you have the account that wrote the article by logging on, but this still would be a situation it would be best to avoid.-gadfium 04:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Your writing belongs to you and you can do what you like with it. For example, some material at Cessna Citation X is nearly exactly lifted from the introduction to a long report I wrote for a class. But since it's mine, I can GFDL license it if I want. Doing it in the other order is harder, since you might have a hard time distinguishing your work from the work of others. moink 22:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Their Advice from a person with a doctorate in law: Legally their would no plagerism. The text you wrote is entirely your own. As far the fear creating an academic concern of being accused plagerism, that can be diffused before it is created simply by approaching the proffessor proposing what your planning. Here you can get his ok an if need be prove, through the history that it is your work. By getting his ok you completly neutralize the problem. If you approached the proffessor this way he would not think it employ in a scheme, such is because few plagerists would have the moral fortitude to present their copying. In addition by approaching the proffesor before you hand in the paper it could effectivly difuse other issues. If you don't approach any excuse you make would come accross as disingenious, however even you can prove your authorship it is best approach because the school might consider it cheating use old work and recycle it. Though this is unlikely since most rules only ban recycled work if it was previously submited for academic credit (at my college such would have been considered cheating even it was submitted for academic credit prior to college). If using your wikipedia text would be problem for any reason talking to the proffesor before you submit will disfuse problem. Of course if he says you can't use it you should not try to push the envelope by useing it any way


Often, on a box of some chocolate-flavoured food I see some type of chocolate which I don't know the name of. They're always in sort of chunks or something.

Here's an example:

Does anyone know what this is? --Daltonls 03:20, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Milk chocolate perhaps? --Proficient 11:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, for one thing, it doesn not say Pop Farts; it says Pop Tarts. Kilo-Lima|(talk) 11:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


what is Nelson's in cricket parlance? is it correct for example 222 runs for 2 wickets is called Nelson's

See 111 (number) -- SGBailey 07:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't play cricket. --Nelson Ricardo 15:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
A score of 111 is usually called a Nelson - although the reason why is open to argument. A score of 222 is more correctly called 'double nelson'. The cricket umpire Dickie Bird used to stand on one leg when 111 came up on the scoreboard if I recall correctly. It is considered to be an unlucky score. --Worm 11:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The name Nice[edit]

What gender is the given name Nice in Italy? Wiwaxia 07:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

When you say "given name", do you mean the first name of some person, or the name of the French city? I've never heard of a person known as Nice. According to this, the French city Nice is known as Nizza in Italian, which I'm guessing would be feminine. JackofOz 09:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't "given name" mean the name of a person? .. I'd guess female, "nice" seems more feminine than masculine. --Froth 17:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe short for Berenice. JackofOz 06:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


What is the relationship between Atari & Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and shirts?

To explain, other game companies [in refrence to Atari] don't have their company logo and/or name on any shirt; Nintendo is a company that is in every way the same as Atari, but you don't see people wearing a shirt with the nintendo logo; for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you see people in their 20's wearing these shirts, but they don't wear Pokémon shirts.

Where do you get the Atari, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, & Transformers tshirts?

I'm looking for the orignal Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles logo on a black shirt, & how did the Transformers tshirt style start?

Also, where do you get the fiber bacelets & necklaces? I've been trying to find that style that the most people wear for males. Is it made of hemp or somthing? [Something like that, right?] & where do you get the chain bracelet? Its like a bike chain.

Please also email removed, thanks.

Thanks alot! 08:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this like the fourth time you've posted this question? User:Zoe|(talk) 21:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I do believe it is. From here on out, sir or madam, I'm going to remove your questions related to this issue. Be patient and give us a chance to respond. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 00:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
He or she has been responded to, but apparently has not liked the answers (cf, my talk page). You go ahead and delete, Cernen, I'm going to be sitting idol. --LarryMac 19:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


Any one who can tell me from insects which one is an insect which doesn't have a leader and an aim?

See insect.  -- Run!  11:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
..then look in a mirror (Well, you did ask!)--Shantavira 18:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

insects are animals they do not have leaders or queens in the way we think of them.

"Why doesn't the government just print money for itself instead of making taxes?"[edit]

A question asked by my 10 year old sister. I know it's not feasible, but can anyone provide specific reasons?

Inflation. Actually, hyperinflation. Creating money out of 'nothing' dilutes the value of currency in circulation; this leads to the need to print more money to purchase the same goods, which in turn leads to a decline in the value of the currency, which leads to the need to print more money.... TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:18, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
It will create a vicious circle. --Proficient 15:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The same question was answered about a week ago, see Printing lots of money. --vibo56 talk 16:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, but why not just print the same amount of money they would anyway, but take their cut at source, rather than giving it to people and then demanding it back in the form of taxes? That would make matters a whole lot simpler. --Bonalaw 16:12, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't get that. What is the difference between "taking their cut at source" and taxing? --vibo56 talk 16:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
In other words, why doesn't the priest get a 10% pay cut and not have to tithe? This would be a valid question, except the employer already confiscates money from your paycheck. As for why the government doesn't just do it "off the assembly line" and have a tiny secondly tax rather than a huge yearly tax.. historical reasons I suppose --Froth 17:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The more money you print, the less it's worth. Wizrdwarts (T|C) 16:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The answer I have told myself is that printing more money won't magically increase the amount of food, or the time people have on their hands. So the supply of goods and services won't be able to keep up with the demand, and all that money will just be sitting useless on people's bank accounts. JIP | Talk 18:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC) This method has been tryed before, it was tried Weimer Germany, the result hyper inflation.

.AU online bookstore?[edit]

I'm looking for an Australian equivilent of Amazon. Does anything like that exist? Failing this, can someone recommend a good, cheap AU bookstore?

Try a Google search for 'australian book websites' (without the quotes). Several sites show up. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't Amazon ship to Australia ? Are the shipping charges too high ? StuRat 14:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Spanish online bookstore[edit]

And I'm looking for a good Spanish online bookstore. There's no Can anyone recommend a good Spanish online bookstore, with fast delivery within Europe, and a wide selection of books in the fields of science/medicine? --vibo56 talk 16:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Vatican Image Copyrights[edit]

When, if ever, do photos taken in Vatican City enter into public domain. In Italy, images become PD after 20 years, but obviously the Vatican is not Italy. If you google search this, you will be bombarded with hits about how the Vatican aggressively pursues copyrights on its works, but they are all talking about the writings of Pope Benedict XVI. I want to know about images, specifically old images, more specifically the images in Pope Pius XII which are between 70 and 50 years old. savidan(talk) (e@) 16:33, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

If you've taken the picture, you can license it into the public domain, else you don't (generally) own the copyright of the image. Other than that, you may want to check here... Hope this helps, else come back and ask the question again, or post on my talk page. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 21:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Cartoon question[edit]

Have a look at this picture (warning: softcore erotic content): [1]. I recognise the cartoon it is parodying but can't remember its name. It also had a boy with light brown hair and red clothes. What is it called? JIP | Talk 18:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


After stimulating my Boyfriends penis for a little while a clear liquid appears at the tip of his penis. Is there sperm in this liquid?

Yes, pre-ejaculation contains sperm. --Proficient 19:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

But not much. See Pre-ejaculate. —Keenan Pepper 20:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Sweetheart if you do not about the liquid that come out of your beau you are to young for a sexual relationship. I would advise to await a fews year, you probally will be happier in the long run.

Old Alcohol[edit]

I inherited a stock of alcohol in sealed bottles - over 30 to 40 years old. Is it safe to be drinking that?

Genuine Windows Thing[edit]

My problem is thus; I bought my computer from Time Computers Ltd. with a restore disc to restore Windows. When I tried to restore last year, the system failed and I was advised to return the PC to the vendor. The vendor however, has gone into liquidation so I sourced a counterfeit copy of Windows and installed it on my machine and now I'm getting bugged by the genuine Windows thingy. Why should I have to buy Windows again when I already have a valid holographic licence sticker stuck to the case of my machine? --Username132 (talk) 21:24, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Try contacting Microsoft, as if your Windows disc is valid, they may offer you a geniune Windows disc for free or for a small price (to cover shipping etc). There are, howeverm ways of bypassing the "Geniune Windows Advantage Program", but these are, for the most part,(obviously) illegal. One way to prevent future problems is to install a firewall which could block access to the internet to the Windows Validation program, but this is by no means recommended or fool-proof. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 21:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Using Windows' software to block Windows is, at least I would say so, hard. Iolakana|(talk) 13:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Obsession with celebrities[edit]

What is the name of the psycological condition that causes someone to become unhealthily fixated on a particular celebrity to the extent that they believe that they 'own' said celebrity and that he/she exists only to love/please them? Often, something like the celebrity changing their image, getting married, refusing to reply to their letters etc. can turn 'Number 1 Fan' into someone consumed with rage and hatred at being 'betrayed' by their idol and lead to stalking, threats, violence, etc. Anyone know what I'm on about here? I think that I know someone who is suffering from this... --Kurt Shaped Box 23:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

See erotomania, although it's not exclusively about celebrities. --Richardrj 06:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • "Stan" nuff sed...hotclaws**==( 06:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC))

June 18[edit]

Help with opening the fuel door of a 1967 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow I[edit]


My husband and I are stuck; we just purchased a 1967 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow I and are following the directions in the user manual however the fuel button does not release the fuel door and we cannot get gas into the car!

We don't even know which direction the springs are set to try and pop the door open.

Is it possible to get more help with how to open this fuel door? Also, can we have a schemata of the actual mechanism of the fuel door so we can see where the hinge(s) is/are located.

Thank you so much!!

And if for some reason I am writing this where I shouldn't be, please tell me; I couldn't follow the site very well. Thank you!

Dawna Martich Egan (email address redacted)

This, unfortunately, is not the kind of question the Wikipedia reference desk is good at answering. You'd be better served on an internet forum devoted to fans of classic Rolls-Royce vehicles. For instance, the Rolls Royce club of Australia has a technical forum where you might get an answer to this kind of question. Good luck with your classic car. --Robert Merkel 07:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
You could also try calling Car Talk on NPR, but those guys are strange 'nuff to be pastatutes. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 09:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I really doubt that the Tappet brothers would have much of a clue. A '67 Rolls isn't exactly the average auto that they get calls about. Dismas|(talk) 09:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Wow. That seems like a really big problem. --Proficient 14:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I suggest you contact the person or company from which you purchased the car, they must know. I once saw this very situation with a new car at it's first fill up at a gas station. In that case the culprit was a dealer installed locking fuel cap which was intended to be removed when the vehicle was sold. (This locking fuel cap was used to prevent people who take the car on a solo test drive from siphoning off fuel.) StuRat 00:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Indie British Rock[edit]

Lately I've been getting into Indie Rock and I'm going to the UK in a few days. And I was just wondering if, maybe, you can point out some really great British Indie Rock. I've really gotten into Hard-Fi and The Killers (Although they're not British). I know there are a lot of British people who work on here; that's why I'm asking. :) I've been trying really hard to find something similar to Hard-Fi with really catchy lyrics... So, any suggestion would be great! Thanks! ~Cathy~

Well, you may like the Arctic Monkeys, maybe the Kaiser Chiefs. The Young Knives are also very good, although they haven't released an album yet. Although they are also American, We Are Scientists are also very popular on the UK Indie scene, and some the older Britpop bands (Oasis, early Blur) sound quite Hard-Fi. Generally, a most UK indie bands aren't like Hard-Fi though; they are closer to Snow Patrol or Coldplay; quieter/gentler stuff. For a more comprehensive idea, you can either listen to Zane Lowe on Radio 1; he plays a lot of Indie, or read NME or Q magazine, both are British indie music mags. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 08:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Snow Patrol are from Dublin. Dublin does not = british. O_o And, while we're talking about Irish Rock (since Snow Patrol are Irish), I'd check out Flogging Molly and Dropkick Murphys. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 10:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC) (It is also worth noting that I am a horrible anglophile. Cernen Xanthine Katrena 10:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC))
Actually, Snow Patrol are from Belfast, which is in Northern Ireland, and formed in Glasgow, Scotland. But there is some great Irish rock music. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 10:57, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Hot picks are in bold - While we're on the subject of Glasweigans, try the Delgados, Franz Ferdinand, Sons and Daughters and Idlewild; although they're almost punk in parts, Idlewild have calmed down recently. Personal favourites Maxïmo Park and The Futureheads are worth a listen, and you could try the Music if you want to stick with the Northern theme. Dropping into the Midlands, you could stick on the Coral and the Zutons, and turn up the Oasis on the way through Manchester.On the other hand, if you're visiting the Saaaf, then Bloc Party and Kasabian will soundtrack more than enough urban wastelands to keep you going (and put on the Supergrass to pick you up again). If you're still hungry for more (I would be) then compare this lot with this list. That lot should keep you busy... Tyrhinis 14:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm listening to a lot of them. :) ~Cathy~

cat shows[edit]

who are the best judges in show competition

The ones who judge fairly and do not cheat. Iolakana|(talk) 13:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the person who asked this question was asking for specific judges. Were you not? --Proficient 14:43, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • In that case, I would like to know what he considers 'best' in a judge. Otherwise the answer is entirely subjective. - Mgm|(talk) 07:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably who are experts in cats, many would have a vetinary Zoological background.

Does the Wikimedia Foundation plan to ever put the Wikipedia on CDROM?[edit]

As a person who frequently travels -- often ending up to places where Internet access is problematic or unbearably slow -- it would be nice to have a set of Wikipedia CDROMs that contain the Wikipedia knowledgebase that I could carry with me on my journies. Given that the Wikipedia will always be a work in progress, I understand that a CDROM edition would be at best a snapshot of its state at any given time. But it seems to me that Wikimedia Foundation could earn some extra revenue from publishing a snapshot of the Wikipedia wiki, say in quarterly installments. I certainly would be willing to purchase these (if they were reasonably priced).

Beowulf888 03:33, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Beowulf888

your capable of downloading the current Wiki version yourself, although im not quite sure where it was. Joneleth 03:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Downloading it is not quite the same thing as being able to read it on a CD, in part because to view the information in its raw form you need to be able to run MediaWiki which requires MySQL and PHP which require a webserver and soforth. --Fastfission 04:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
There is a project to put it on a CD, yes. Apparently there is a beta version available; see Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download. --Fastfission 04:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
The CD in the previous reply only contains about 2000 articles. If you can read German, there are much larger versions of the German Wikipedia available for download at de:Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download. There are compressed versions of the English Wikipedia and some other language editions available for handheld devices in TomeRaider format. That article links to the downloads. You will probably want to buy a copy of TomeRaider as the free version doesn't display 20% of records. Although there is a Windows version of TomeRaider, we don't create a version of en wikipedia for it.
For the project to create a much more major CD or DVD or paper version, see Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. For the database download, see Wikipedia:Database download. You would have to also run the MediaWiki software and MySQL for the database to be of any use to you. The software is cross platform and should run for a single user on any modern laptop.-gadfium 05:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
What would be really useful is a program to convert the Wikimedia SQL dumps into HTML, which could then be burned onto a DVD with ease. Raul654 09:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
However, the media files would be a different beast - they'd never fit. If you did want to get them, you'd have to move up storage medium hierarchy a notce, from DVDs, to 300+ gig hard drives. Raul654 09:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


How do I upload a biography ... minus photos ... and perhaps add photos later?

Also, I thought I was logged in. Are there 2 different places where you have to create different ID and password? 03:43, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You don't upload text; you type it in. Make sure you are acquainted with our Wikipedia:Copyright policy before adding any text, though, and knowing our general article content policies will help make sure it isn't deleted quickly. --Fastfission 04:48, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
You certainly do upload text. That's what the "Save page" button does. :p
Please see the pages about Getting started. --TheMadBaron 10:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


ever since the American government forced the new economic system through in iraq that allowed up to 100% of iraq to be owned by foreigners, has there ever been made any estimates how much currently is owned by foreigners, and where would I get this information. Joneleth 03:53, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Try asking at the Humanities reference desk. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 14:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, it does sound highly suspicious. Also, most businessmen would be nuts to invest in Iraq right now, as the risk to both property and lives is extreme and any benefit doubtful. StuRat 00:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I dont think the questioner is saying that 100% of Iraqi companies are now in the hands of foreigners. He is complaining about the law giving foreigners the right to buy Iraqi businesses.
  • This is normal between all Western capitalist countries though, its not a punishment against Iraq. I dont know the figures so far but in reality it never reaches 100% (or even 50%), even in countries that have been capitalist for many years. The same thing happened in Eastern Europe. IIRC the most extreme case is that all the major banks in Slovakia are now foreign-owned. On the other hand of course the Russians have bought companies in the West too. Jameswilson 23:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That simply is not true their are many bussiness in Iraqi owned. Their most important industry is still socialized. On other hand I am guiseing the an American could try buy into Iraqi bussiess.—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Movie Ideas[edit]

Is there a place where you can email an idea for a movie to hollywood?

Yea, any movie producers email address, how to obtain it is a far more complicated question. Joneleth 04:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Reputable producers won't look at an idea unless it comes to them, officially, through an agent. So if your idea is any good, get an agent. The reason for such a rule is to stop them being sued by someone who sent them an idea years ago, and then a similar film eventually gets made. Notinasnaid 15:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Producers generally don't look at ideas for the same reason as editors at publishing companies don't. They don't want to be sued for supposedly stealing an idea someone sent years ago, so they simply don't look at them to avoid it. Besides, why pay for an idea if you can get enough of them yourself with a little bit of thinking. You have a much better chance if you actually send a screenplay or write a novel or short story and sell the movie rights to said work to them. Finished work is far more likely to be worth their money. - Mgm|(talk) 07:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Where to report linkspamer?[edit]

User: has been warned approximately four times, but he/she keeps inserting the same bit of linkspam into the LASIK article. Where should this issue be reported? Thanks! -AED 03:34, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I've given them a three hour block. That should take them past normal waking hours in the US.-gadfium 06:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
AED, if they continue to do so after you giving them the final warning, post it on WP:AIAV. Iolakana|(talk) 13:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
In the future you can drop {{subst:spam}}, {{subst:spam2}}, {{subst:spam3}}, {{subst:spam4}} on their user talk page and report at WP:AIV if they still persist. Conscious 14:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to the both of you! -AED 04:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Say it isn't so...[edit]

Is it true that the bird flu is in Canada now? Pacific Coast Highway (blahtypa-typa) 06:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's been spotted in a goose in PEI. Even though it is the H5 strain, they haven't tested the neuraminidase on it and don't know whether it's H5N1 (which is the deadly strain). It's not likely, however. --ColourBurst 06:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Given the huge amount of migratory birds we get in the Arctic I would be surprised if it wasn't more widespread. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Soft Copy of Life is Beautiful(English VErsion) movie[edit]

I would like to have a copy of Life is Beautiful English version Movie. Kindly plese send it across to me @ (email address removed by EvocativeIntrigue to prevent poster from spam, ham, jam and various other foodstuffs)

You are aware that copyright infringement is a crime just about everywhere on Earth? Go read some of the links from Bittorrent and cross your fingers that you don't get a call from the MPAA. --Robert Merkel 11:53, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

free domain[edit]

plz can ne1 tell me were i can get FREE .com domain plzz helpSuraj vas 11:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless you have a contact at one of the domaain registries or their resellers, I doubt that you can. But you can buy them for less than $10 US per year from, say,, amongst many others. Many other companies will throw in "free" domain registration if you also buy hosting from them. In most cases, unless you are intending to run a very large number of domains off a single web server I would have thought that in comparison to the hosting, a domain name is a small expensive. --Robert Merkel 12:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
You can get a free .tk domain, but still need to provide hosting for the site, and the site displays in a frame, making it harder for visitors to bookmark a particular page. A .com domain costs around £20 a year or less in the UK, with hosting costing about the same amount per year. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 14:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

High-quality full cover art for videogames.[edit]

Does anyone know where I can find high-res images of videogame amaray cases -- spine, back and front in one image that I can print using CoverXP? is great but doesn't have the image I need -- Harvest Moon: Magical Melody.

PDF -> SVG[edit]

Does anyone know of any free (or even free-trial) software that can be used to extract vectors from PDFs and save them to SVG or another vector format which is supported better PDF? - Рэдхот 13:43, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm..... that's a tough one. Adobe Illustrator can import vectors from PDFs and there is a 30 days trial version which I think is fully functional. According to this page Inkscape can, if you play with it, be made to import Postscript files, and I think that ImageMagick can convert PDF to Postscript files... pretty ugly way to do it, though. --Fastfission 15:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Illustrator can open/import most PDF files too (provided you own the fonts used). Notinasnaid 15:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. It was mainly for some logos used on Wikipedia which would be better in vector (and I managed to find in PDFs). Thanks again - Рэдхот 19:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


Does anyone know what "R.O.W." or sometimes "R.O.W.Y." stands for on road maps (it seems to mean a small lane generally behind the backyards of houses)?

It is most likely right of way. Depending on which country you are in, a right of way may be a path or road which any member of the public has a legal right to travel along (see also Rights of way in the United Kingdom). Road Wizard 14:03, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
It means "right of way"- see here! EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 14:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I typed it into the Wikipedia search box but that article didn't come up, probably because I typed it in with the full stops. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) .

I've added the redirect from R.O.W. for future reference! EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 14:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

swimming pools[edit]

I have an above ground swimming pool which is in direct sun about 8 hours a day. I have a solar cover to keep the heat in over night and on cloudy days. My question is: Will the water heat up faster with the solar cover on when the sun is shinning or with the cover off and the suns rays penetrating the water? My husband and I have been trying to figure this out but it seems that no two days are the same. Is there some scientific formula for this or has anyone figured this out on there own?

Thank you for any info, L.H.

(fixed formating issue. 14:37, 18 June 2006 (UTC))

What's the cover made out of, does it work like a standard Jacuzzi cover, or is it a thin layer of plastic stretched over the pool? Both of those factors will influence the answer. Emmett5 14:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It is a reg solar cover made of blue bubbled plastic which floats on top of the water. It looks like bubble wrap.

Take off the cover during the day, then put it on at night is the logical thing to do. It will heat slower if you let the cover on and let the sun's rays penetrate. Leave it off when it's hot and put it on when it's cooler to prevent the outside and inside from equilibrating faster.--Proficient 15:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Solar pool covers are intended to be used when the sun is shining -hence the solar part of the name. Rmhermen 18:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Andy Griffith[edit]

Was Andy Griffith's wife in his TV show at any time. (any of his wives)

In Episode 116, "The Song Festers", his first wife Barbara played the role of Sharon, a lady who sang in the choir. Danthemankhan 22:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

How many children did Griffith have 3 or 4? adopted or his own.

Etang Discher[edit]

Moved to Talk:Etang_Discher#Ethnicity.

Preventing Mass Deletions[edit]

I started a discussion here that people have seem to have forgotten about and we never got close to an answer. --Ephilei 17:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps because this is the Reference Desk: more favoured by people who like answering questions than by people who want to discuss (or people who know much about) Wikipedia policies. Notinasnaid 18:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Of course your question was not answered and the correct place for this is Wikipedia talk:Notability. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 20:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I never meant to have a conversation about this (here) I want to know where the proper place is to begin/continue proposing a policy concerning notability. Is Wikipedia talk:Notability the best place? If so, what is the process for proposing a new policy? --Ephilei 21:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There are already several guidelines concerning notability. Did you check Wikipedia:Notability? --Optichan 15:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I think I've read all the notability guidelines by now! But thanks. I'm contributing to a new proposal at Wikipedia:Non-notability. --Ephilei 06:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Gujerati translation[edit]

Namaste My name is Arvind Kunvar. I am from South Africa from a towm called Benoni. Annually we have a programe where memebers of the hindu gujerati community are asked to prepare the meaning of the slokas of the Bhagavat Gita from a particular chapter. This must then be presented at a gathering. Here one person will chant the Sanscrit followed by an English meaning thereafter the Gujerati meaning. This year we are doing Chapter 1 and I am to do the gujeari meaning of verse 41. Althought I do speak Gujerati but not very well. So if there is someone that can help me with this sloka I would be most grateful. This function takes place on the 02-07-2006 so if you could reply me to my e mail add at (email address removed) will be very much appreciated. I do have "Hari" Gujerati script on my computer. However gujerati written in english script will also be fine. Many thanks Hari Om Namaste Arvind

Hey, I removed your email address to prevent spam etc; all answers on the reference desk are posted here --iamajpeg 18:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Media law and wikipedia[edit]

Hi I was redirected here from the helpdesk

In this discussion -

We are trying to work out if American media law takes precendence over that of canada in regards to the naming of subjects in criminal investigations (IN REGARDS TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ARTICLE ON WIKIPEDIA). I'm *very* hazy about this but I *think* that Wikipedia has an ongoing effect to avoid american-bias and that we default to the norms of the country the offense happened in unless there is a good reason? WE seem to have solved the problem on that page. But I'm interested in a more general sense for future reference . --Charlesknight 21:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

U.S. bias? This site was founded by an American and the servers are located on U.S. soil. We can name names if we want. --Nelson Ricardo 00:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
That makes no sense to me... the court would actually release the names to the U.S. press? --ColourBurst 06:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
The court is open to the public and press. In a high profile case such as Karla Homolka the judge may issue a publication ban (see the Canada section) or gag order. However, the US or other foreign press have then published the information in papers and websites located outside of Canada. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the names are actually known to anyone, since the Canadian media is not publishing it. But I may be wrong. Anyway, the subject hasn't been brought up on the talk page in question. Only whether we should be using the passive voice. But feel free to start that conversation, especially if you know the names (from a reliable source) and want to add them. moink 09:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The US has a strong first amendment and a right to cover trials.

Saved By The Bell Minor Character[edit]

I was reading the article on Saved By The Bell the TV show, and I looked over the Minor Character's page for the answer, but could not find it. I was just trying to find out the name of the person that played a nerd on the show called something like Frog, or the Toad, because he had an oddly deep voice. He was a scrawny African American kid. Just wondering if anyone knew the actor's real name! Thanks.

I checked the episodes cast list, and there is no character named Frog or Toad listed in any episode - User:Zoe|(talk) 20:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Though there's a "moose" and an "ox/skud".  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  04:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I know exactly who you where talking about, he is kid of a Urcell like character. I dont he was ever reffered to by name.

Burberry Sunglasses[edit]

Hi, do all Burberry Sunglasses offer 100% UV protection? --Jamesino 22:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

No. Price and fashion do not imply any UV protection whatsoever. You will need to study their individual labels. In Europe, protective sunglasses may have a CE mark and give the protection factor. See sunglasses for more information.--Shantavira 07:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

June 19[edit]

What's brown and sticky?[edit]

<See headline>

Chocolate icing? Vegemite? Bitumen? —Keenan Pepper 00:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually bitumen is black and sticky. What about rosin? —Keenan Pepper 00:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and don't forget Gorilla Glue. —Keenan Pepper 00:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

A stick?

Mole asses --  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  02:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

"whats brown and sticky" is a joke, to which the most common answer is, obviously, a brown stick. similar to "what red and looks like a bucket?" (a red bucket). and "whats blue and looks like a bucket?" (a red bucket in disguise). oh the hilarity. --Ballchef 08:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I realize it's a pun, but for any non-native English speakers who might be reading this, sticky means "adhesive", not "resembling a stick", which would have to be something like stick-like. —Keenan Pepper 18:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I would have thought that too, but the OED does have "sticky: 1. Of plant-stems: Like a stick; woody. 2. Painting. Characterized by hardness of outline. 3. colloq. Of a person: Like a ‘stick’; wanting in animation or grace; awkward."--Shantavira 19:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Weird. —Keenan Pepper 00:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah well the OED is rather wanting in animation if you ask me.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  04:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

real person that owns this computer[edit]

i am the real person that owns this computer i am 15 and i have a girlfriend and shes 15 and i seen what my friend rote on this website he did that because i told him that he needs to get a life and just to let you know hes the one thats gay hes 13 and has a 10 year old boyfriend so he rote what he rote because he was jelous and was upset that i told him he needs to go get a life so please listen to me i would like you to delete his message in exatly 5 weeks and if its not gone then i will tell all of my friends and family members that this is a very bad web site so deal with oh and by the way your the one that needs to go see a shrink what i just said goes to who ever said i need to see a shrink and who ever said that your just upset so please take back what you said and that thing with my friend im very sorry it will never happen again—

Who is "you"? Many people read this page and answer questions. The only edits made by the IP address you're using (Special:Contributions/ are a spelling correction and three posts (including this one) to the reference desk. The reference desk is archived every few weeks anyway, so don't worry about it. By the way, people will be more willing to help you if you use things like capital letters and periods. It's difficult to tell what you're trying to say. —Keenan Pepper 02:41, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
We don't take well to threats at Wikipedia, but you can go ahead and tell your mom and your 15 year old friends that Wikpedea sukcs anyways. Nobody is going to call the police on you if you have a 15 year old girlfriend, mainly because a) it's none of our business b) we are not police c) we can't, really, and d) most of us really don't care. We are also well aware that people are not always truthful when posting on Wikipedia, so either you or your friend may not be telling the truth, and that really doesn't matter either, because we all have open minds and try to examine the details with a critical eye as they come to us.
I guess you want some kind of advice, which is why you posted here... so I'll see what I can do.
  • Consider that your gay 13 year old friend might not actually be your friend
  • rote -> wrote
  • your -> you're
  • jelous -> jealous
 freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  06:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
  • is it just me or would it be a good thing if this guy's family and friends didn't use Wikipedia?hotclaws**==( 07:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC))
Take a look at this...EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 11:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Have you ever considered suicide? Mayor Westfall 18:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Please keep your peti fallouts off the reference desk! --Username132 (talk) 21:07, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Heres how to get revenge create a long in account and write a bio about your friend.

Service pages[edit]

As most Internet users know server ports are used to access various services and applications. For instance port 13 is used to provide a time service or port 7 to provide the echo service. This concept can also be applied to the client environment and used to perform client or application services on the client computer. For instance if you need to sort data you can simply place it in a text file, use a particular name, save the file to a special folder and like magic the data in the special file in the special folder will be sorted automatically while you do something else. I've created a bunch of these for my own computer but my question is whether (owing to all the bots that are being used to maintain the Wikipedia) are there an pages that offer similar functionality such as spelling correction? In other words is there a page somewhere like the sandbox page where a user can submit the text of an edit and have it spell checked or have other checks or services performed before submitting it to an article in order to relieve the various bots the time an effort of file searching? ...IMHO (Talk) 03:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Bandwidth surprise![edit]

I hear a lot about people whose sites were flooded with unexpected traffic (from slashdotting, or an internet fad, or anything) and had gigantic bills. This recently happened to my friend (he went 4 terabytes over for the month!) and he has a huge bill.

It seems like this kind of thing happens a lot.. what do people usually do in these situations? He's only 16 so he can't come up with 2 grand by the time the bill is due. Do hosting companies typically offer payment plans or pardons for these cases?

--Froth 04:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

In most cases, I think it's a combination of the person just footing the bill, adding online advertising (web banners; Google AdWords or the like) since there's now enough traffic to generate real revenue; begging for PayPal donations again taking advantage from the increased traffic; and selling merchandise often through Cafe Press, particularly helpful in the case of internet fads. Essentially the same way that high-profile sites often support themselves, since they are high profile sites for a brief time. The problem is that all of this depends on quick reactions, since the internet is fast and fickle. Perhaps there's a market out there for "slashdot insurance"? --ByeByeBaby 05:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Aren't websites usually locked if people go over their bandwith limit to avoid such large bills? Otherwise unscrupulous people could attack sites with thousands of visits daily to generate such a bill for people they don't like. I'd suggest he contact the ISP and ask for advice to stop it happening again. In the mean time, go the commercial route. - Mgm|(talk) 07:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Western World[edit]

I frequently hear people refer to the "western world", when referring to certain characteristics of society. They usually use it when criticising one of these western characteristics. What I'd like to know is, what goes on in the "eastern world"? And why do people always think that its characteristics are always the opposite of the west's?

I guess the reason why the "western world" and the "eastern world" are often so inconcernedly divided into two is because of the state the world was in a few hundred years ago, when huge advances were being made in the basic sciences and maths in sectors of Europe, and there wasn't much contact with the main intellectual powers in the "east", mainly China and Japan. Many technologies were developed independantly on opposite ends of the globe, and they exhibited huge differences in lifestyle in the way that they were used and developed. A good example is the way timepieces advanced in Japan (see wadokei), and something like that would most certainly cause many Europeans suspect something strange was going on in the east.
More recently, the "east" and the "west" have obviously come closer in many respects regarding technology and culture, but there are still clearly many differences, from lifestyles to though processes to interests and pet peeves.
The "east" and the "west" are obviously not opposites (though they are, technically, physically opposite), but people have a tendancy to generalize, stereotype, and label other cultures in demeaning ways, often because it's simply easier to point fingers when you have a clearly stated target, whether such a concrete definable target actually exists or not. The same is also true for other areas of the world, such as the "middle-east", "asian minor", "southern asia", "australasia", "latin america", etc. etc.
As for what's actually going on in eastern world, well, they smoke American cigarettes, fight about pension plans and football games, eat a balanced diet of noodles, sushi, and hamburgers, struggle to speak English even they really don't want to, and sleep in rooms that smell funny and reverberate eerie music. Or maybe I'm just generalizing!  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  06:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
The western world was a creation of early European societies as a way of separating themselves from people whom they thought of as barbarians (even though Arab countries and China in particular were much more advanced than Europe was in the Middle Ages). See also Orientalism_(book) --ColourBurst 06:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Not like "the east" are not equally as responsible for trying to be different from our "evil ways" --mboverload@ 03:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The eastern greatly differs from the western world in the philosphiwes that influence them. Europe has influenced, Christianity marxism, liberalism and conservatism. The Easten World has influenced by Islam, ethic nationalism, polytheism and Buddism.

The Residency of George Bush Sr.[edit]

I know that George Bush Sr. claims residency in atleast nine different states, which states are they?

Do you have a source for that claim? It seems very unlikely and of questionable legality. Regardless, George H. W. Bush notes that he lives in Texas with a summer home in Maine. I expect that Texas is his legal, i.e. vote-eligible, state of residence. — Lomn | Talk 14:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)In Bushes life time has lived in four states. Mass, conneticut, maine and Texas.

Name of 1950s comic strip[edit]

I am looking for the name of (and a/some collections if any exist) of a comic strip I remember reading in the Sunday funnies in the 50s. It was a two panel strip dealing with poetic justice in hell. The first panel would show the person sinning while alive and the second would show them suffering in hell. As an example, if I were doing it today, the first panel would show John Ashcroft arresting people for using medical marijuana and the second panel would show the doctor telling him that "The only thing we have ever found which could alleviate your agonizing pain and nausea is marijuana." I think it may have been called Haley's Inferno.

It sounds like a cartoon rip off of Dante's Inferno. AllanHainey 10:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, although I wouldn't call it a rip off, since it clearly was titled Inferno and in the 50s people knew that meant Dante. But, the entire poetic justice concept seems to have solidified with Dante and I'm certain the concept for the comic was based on his work. I would really like to know the name of the strip and the name of the artist (which must have been the name in the title) and if there are any collections available. Ljward 05:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Jimmy Hatlo. See Bunthorne 03:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! That is exactly what I was looking for. Ljward 05:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Repeated question about insect[edit]

Before few days i have asked the following question: "Any one who can tell me from insects which one is an insect which doesn't have both a leader and an aim?". But the answer which i got from you doesn't answer my question. Please help me once again by answering this question.

I think the reason you didn't get a good answer is that nobody understood your question. What exactly do you mean? What kind of leader? Do you mean like a honey bee has a queen bee? Most insects do not live in groups. What sort of aim? Can you give an example of an aim of an insect. Please explain your question, and we might be able to answer. Notinasnaid 11:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Alternatively, you could try bugging (pardon the pun) the science reference desk or looking at insect!
Don't forget top sign your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~)!
EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 11:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
OK. I am guessing this is some sort of riddle? Do you mean "Which insect doesn't have a leader or an aim?" We shall be kind and ignore "Can anyone tell me from insects" this time round. I am assuming it is a riddle as insects are not usually thought of as having leaders. But all insects have an aim, which is to survive and breed.--Shantavira 12:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Only social insects have leaders (typically a "queen" which also lays all the eggs). Although I suppose you could debate whether the queen is really a leader or not. That part about "not having an aim" is a bit vague, however. StuRat 17:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


according to religious books..we r composed of matter and "soul" question is what is it is created...n where it will go ..after we die????? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) .

Nobody knows "where" it goes, if indeed it goes anywhere. But see afterlife. Also (depending on your religion, mood, or level of optimism) you might like to look at such topics as death, purgatory, heaven, hell, and reincarnation.--Shantavira 13:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

According to theosophy, the soul is a multi coloured, multi petalled lotus, that rotates in concentric circles much like monadic cyles, and for the most part is in three tears much like the popes tiara. it originates in the various andrenal glands around the body such as the petuatary gland and the spleen, which also crespond to the chakras seen in eastern philosophy. Ones soul is in direct relation to what we in the west call our bubble, or aura. It is a beautiful thing, and the more one studies it the larger it becomes and the more one is able to feel it and work with it. Some claim to have seen it. there are numerous different centers from which it originates, from the top, not nessesarilly in order of importance: just obove the crown ontop of the head, between the eyes, in the throat, the most prominent (in me at least) the sular plexus, the stomach, the groin. Look after your well, cultivate it! This does however raise a question for me, how does noe go about educating ones friends about the soul and its relationship to thier every day lives without sounding preachy or making them think i am some kind of religious nut like an Evangelical Christian. 13:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)Anton

Oh, and thanks for that question, it was real fun to answer, but where the soul goes after death is anyones guess, But an interesting theory that is backed up by the bible aswell as Eastern philiosphy is that when one sleeps, ones body is (i'll use an annalogy) taking what has happened to you during the day, and all that you have learnd and is backing it up on the hard drive. when we die, it is much like sleep for the soul, after years, we have learned certain things, and in the same way after death the sopul is backing up what ithas learned, and after many many lives one's soul can look back and asses what has happened to it and eventually dies or passes on to either Nirvana, Heaven, or as with this theory, passes to the next plain of existance to become a god, where once again the whole process of life death and rebirth as a god continues. tahnks again 14:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)Anton

who posted this question?

It was, just look through the page history...EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 17:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

your soul is belived you indestoyable immortal inter essence. Regarding how its created. It is created by a councious higher power. Beyond that even conjecture is impossible. Regarding where it goes there are many theories. Most people belive that a soul will go to heaven, basically the domain of the creator. Some also belive dark souls will got another place called hell which some believe astral plain the nature of both heaven are debated. Some also belive the soul can or electily visit or is imprisoned in the mortal world as a ghost.

Popularity of sports[edit]

I was watching the Australia v. Brazil (football/soccer) World Cup game yesterday and the commentator said that football (soccer) is Australia's fifth sport. This made me wonder: (a) What is England's fifth sport? (b) Where in the sports' "league table" would soccer come in the US (ie. is it the fifth most popular, sixth most popular sport etc.) and (c) in what country in the world would football (soccer) be ranked lowest in the sports "league table" (ie. which country has the most sports that are more popular than soccer)? Thanks in advance for any contributions. TomPhil 13:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't have any statistics to back up my opinion but I'd say it's behind American football, baseball, basketball, hockey, golf, auto racing, bowling, and fishing. Perhaps Sports in the United States will give you more info. Dismas|(talk) 13:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
As for the country where it is the least popular, I imagine there are many small countries where nobody plays, or even knows about, soccer. StuRat 17:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd doubt it. Only micronations could really do that - Andorra and San Marino both have football teams, the Vatican City has doubtless condemned it at one point or another (besides, they're in the middle of Rome, and that's a footballing city), and Liechtenstein's captain is a bank manager normally. Of course, these are only European states, but I think any country above about 500 people will play football. --Sam Pointon 17:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Further on my previous comment, after I've done some research: all but eight fully-soveign states are members of FIFA, and a decent number of non-sovereigns are members of NF-Board (even Sealand has a team!). So football is quite a bit more widespread thain in StuRat's estimation. --Sam Pointon 18:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Further to that there are few of "national" football teams not affiliated to FIFA for political reasons e.g. Vatican City national football team, Palestine national football team. Everyone plays football all you need is a ball and a patch of flat ground. Jooler 12:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC) - edit Palenstine is affiliated with FIFA , didn't know that. Jooler 12:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
It depends how you count - number of persons playing, number of persons who pay to go and watch, or number of persons who watch on television would each give different answers. The easiest to measure is television audiences, and by this method I would suggest cricket, Australian rules football, rugby league and rugby union as the four sports with a greater following in Australia. Swimming is also a very popular spectator sport in Australia, so I wouldn't be surprised if football was actually sixth.
In Britain, football, rugby union, cricket and horse racing would be the four sports with the biggest audiences - these four are on TV somewhere pretty much every day. Golf is likely next.
As for countries with little interest in football. As rightly stated, football is played to some extent in pretty much every country of the world. Greenland, a vast country with a very small population, is not a member of FIFA - but even there, football is played (by the minority Danish community; the Inuit have little interest in football). Otherwise, I would suggest India and Pakistan as the major nations where interest is lowest. It is played in these two countries for sure, but cricket is the national sporting obsession, followed by (field) hockey, and football comes lower down. (In India, the Calcutta and Goa areas are interested in football, but elsewhere interest is rather lower.) AndyofKent 22:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes there is a Greenland national football team See also Template:Non-FIFA teams Jooler 12:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
A poll from last year found soccer tied for ninth in popularity among U.S. adults, with 2% of respondents saying it was their favorite sport. Pro football (NFL) was far and away number one, followed by baseball, college football, auto racing, college basketball, ice hockey, men's pro basketball and men's golf. Had they included young people, soccer might have done a little better, but not too much. -- Mwalcoff 00:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In many countries soccer is the most popular sport, to rate sports popularity. In many countries it is the most popular sport. Such is attest by the international audience. In the US Football, baseball, basket ball are the most popular, with soccer and hockey come in distant seconds. In the Commonwealth countries, soccer, cricket, tennis and badmitan are the most popular sports.

joan baez[edit]

does any one know where i can get the chords or tabs to the songs: For Sasha, Song at the end of the Movie, and After the Deluge by joan baez, i wanna learn them but cant find them ANYWHERE. thanks

its not for public performance i just wanna play em for my enjoyment, please, NE1?

You asked this same question just a few days ago. It does not help to duplicate your question, in fact it might annoy. In this case it seems that nobody is able to locate the information you are seeking. Please remember we're all volunteers here and can not guarantee results. --LarryMac 19:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
It's very possible they have not been published. Did you try the fairly obvious route, which is to go to the Joan Baez article, click where it says "official website", click "contacts", then click on the name of the appropriate distributor? Then you can send them an email. Good luck. --Shantavira 19:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

tried the official site, but they want only professional inquieries, further more i have tried google and yahoo found pages 1-15 and to no avail they all have the same 6 songs. none of which appeal to me, please please please if any one has the chords to these, please let me know, here. thanks

name of film about Sean flynn son of Errol Flynn[edit]

please could someone tell me the name of the film made about Sean Flynn (son of Errol Flynn)in Vietnam, I think it was a tv movie made in the 90's, many thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) .

I Googled your phrase and turned this up. Hope it helps. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 18:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I came up with this. --Richardrj 18:31, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks for the information, I've been looking for it for a while, it's been a great help-- 19:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Roo

cleaning antique brass chandeliers[edit]

What's the best way to clean the metal parts of a dusty,moldy chandelier? Many thanks--Csummers 18:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Try a metal polish like Brasso. —Keenan Pepper 18:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

IP address[edit]

I would like to be able to continually change my IP address what would be a good way of going about this? I have tried unplugging my modem and leaving it off overnight, but that hasn't worked. Thanks. Mayor Westfall 18:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Use AOL Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 18:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Use a proxy server. There are hundreds of them listed here. There'll be a place in your web browser's preferences where you can type it in. Then your IP address can't be traced. --Richardrj 19:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Would you mind explaining how to use a proxy server? Im not very familer with the process. Thanks, Richard. Mayor Westfall 20:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

First off, go to the website I linked to and, from the lists, choose a proxy server that works and is anonymous. Then, like I said, it's just a question of finding the place in your web browser's preferences that enables you to enter the IP address of the proxy server you want to use. I can't help you with that part; just check your browser's help feature. (If you're using Internet Explorer, it's probably under Tools somewhere.) Then just surf the web as you would normally. Hope that helps but please come back to me if you get stuck. --Richardrj 20:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
You may find this link useful if you use Internet Explorer. It explains how to use a proxy. TomPhil 21:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Please note that using a proxy does not change your IP address. It will, however, mean that the websites you visit will think you are coming from a different address. If you use other internet services (like email, IRC, chat) the proxy might not be used or might not work. You could download software that make it look like your ethernet card has a different MAC address. Then, when you unplug, change the address, and plug back, you are likely to get a different IP address from your ISP. --Ornil 01:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

  • And if you use Mozilla Firefox there's several extensions that can help you surgf the net in anonymity. - Mgm|(talk) 07:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Kids, why?[edit]

Why do people choose to have children? To me it seems like they are a huge expense, a near life-long commitment, and require huge sacrafices of free time. If someone invested the money they would spend on a child instead of having a child, he would be a milionare by the time his kid would go to college. Who would rather have a kid over a million dollars? For the life of me I cannot understand why so many people make this seemingly bad decision. Mayor Westfall

Biology. There is a huge biological drive to have children in most people. They are not always aware of it, but it's there making people reckless "I'll pull it out before I come" and women broody "oooh what a lovely baby".It's what makes young people more sexually attractive than old people, (more likely to raise a kid to adulthood) and healthy people more attractive than sick ones. Think about people who don't have these urges, they don't have kids, and don't pass this characteristic on. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 18:55, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

My wife and I chose to have a child because we knew it would add something very special to our lives. And so it has proved. There really is nothing like the feeling of watching our child grow up, knowing that we are responsible for his upbringing, feeling unconditional love for him and knowing that that love is reciprocated. It gives our lives new and very profound meaning. Sure it's hugely expensive and fraught with difficulty, but I wouldn't trade being a parent for $1 million or even $1 billion. --Richardrj 19:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess I just don't understand why people like the above poster feel the way they do. To me, It seems like having kids would be a disaster for me. I almost have an abnormal fear of having a child, as being male, I wouldnt have the luxury of aborting it. Mayor Westfall 20:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

May I ask how old you are? You might well find that your feelings about this subject change over time. I know mine did. As I reached my mid-30s, I became dissatisfied with my life as it then was. That's what I meant when I said having a child gave my life new meaning. Another factor is whether you are in a serious relationship with a woman or not. If you are, you might well find that the issue comes up sooner or later. --Richardrj 20:35, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Just to balance this discussion with the other side of the argument; not wanting children is a perfectly normal viewpoint (though clearly not the majoirity one or the species would have died out by now). People kept telling me for years that I would wake up one day and suddenly want to have children, but I haven't seen any signs of that yet. One of the age old arguments that you will likely hear from people if you remain childless for very long is that you are being "selfish", in that you are putting your own self interest above that of a potential child. However, my response to that is to ask, "Which is more selfish, to choose not to have a child, or to choose to bring an unwanted child into the world?" That usually quiets them down. In short though, there is no right or wrong answer. Make what you feel is the right decision for you. Road Wizard 22:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It is best for the male of the species to only contemplate this as he approaches 30. Otherwise, it really interferes with your sex life! --Zeizmic 22:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm 26 and in a relationship with a girl that is 20. I really don't see things changing for me, as I have always cringed at even hearing a child cry in a restaurant or theater. People have told me I'm selfish after they learn I dont intend on having kids, but I just tell them that I am selfish, and that I'd rather spend my life on me & my girlfriend of 4 years than some child. I guess that makes me (and her) abnormal Mayor Westfall 01:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

This is somewhat similar to the question of why people marry. It is also hard to justify logically and rationally - it seems you'd be better of not to put yourself in a vulnerable position of depending on someone to such a huge extent, yet most people do it eventually, and many do it again even after painful divorce experiences. There are plenty of emotional compensations in both cases, though. --Ornil 01:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think there are sound logical and rational reasons for marrying, or for having kids, or both. As Road Wizard says, if people didn't have kids, none of us would be here discussing this. What's foremost in a particular person's mind when they're thinking of having a child may not be "the continuation of the species", but at a biological level that's what it comes down to. With marriage/LTRs, all kinds of emotional needs get met by having the same person to come home to every night, with the prospect of a permanant sharing of lives. What's logical and irrational is why Person A is attracted to Person B and not to Person C. There's no accounting for taste. JackofOz 02:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I suppose one needs to separate the questions of why people have kids vs. what people say their motivations to have kids are. Of course, it's probably true that most people have kids without actually considering why. It's just a natural thing to do. Both for the biological reasons mentioned, and because of societal pressure (try telling your parents they won't have grandkids). Not to mention that if you have no access to reliable birth control, you don't have much choice in the matter anyway. I wonder if Mayor Westfall is asking about the rare case where the couple actually considers the question rationally, and is asking about the arguments they would advance in favor of having kids. With that assumption, I can tell you what some of my motivations are/were in this matter. I didn't really consider the question deeply and decide to have kids, I always wanted to, since I was one myself. However, here are some of the reasons I think it was the right thing for me:

  • I like children. They are a lot of work and a lot of trouble, but I always enjoyed interacting with them. Think of it as a hobby, just the one that's very expensive and takes a lot of time
  • Posterity. I want to bring up someone who is like me, that shares some fundamental values with me. There other ways to leave something behind you, like teaching or making you mark in the world by accomplishing something of enduring importance, but it's not for everyone.
  • Good of the society. I want the society to continue in the next generation, and it is in the society's interests that I should help do so in this way. Moreover, I think I can do a better job of it than most people.
  • Ultimately, it all comes down to emotions. It feels right to do so, and it also brings joy. Presumably, because I am biologically programmed in this way, but that makes no difference to what you experience. --Ornil 03:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Mayor Westfall's suggestion of not having babies, taking the money you would theoretically spend on them and investing it is logically sound. However, it would be even more sensible to have lots of babies and sell them to illegal adoption agencies as soon as they pop out, thus providing you with a regular income. This would give you more time to consider your investment portfolio, and allow you to pursue more high-risk, high-return investments as you would not have to worry about going broke if your investments failed. --Sam Blanning(talk) 12:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I too share the same opinion with you. I dislike children at a high level and would never want to have children. I think it's normal for a portion of the human population to not want to have kids, in opposition to the larger spectrum of people that do indeed want to have children (or are "biologically programmed" to have children without making rational decisions and high end thoughts thereof). Some people remain childless to devote time to their career, their friends, their significant other, etc. There are various reasons why this would occur, and once again I must state that it's not abnormal. --Proficient 16:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Children are nice, having them with you is nice, not having children is nice, depending of our choices. Let us be far for egotism and egotist fears : it is what you like that counts. Things you share with people you know or you learn to know. Now, did any child choose to be born, some say sure, some say no, for myself I'd say nobody knows. --DLL 19:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Because if there is a gene which gives you a huge desire to have children, it is far more likely to be passed on. :P. Philc TECI 13:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe you would be interested in this website then : 1. Their of reasons. First of voluntary. Probally the majority of children in world and possibly in US where not planed. 2. Many people see getting married and having children as neccesary to become full fledges members of society. 3. People want children to take care them in their old age. 4. Many people just like kids.

I thought exactly this until I was 35 years old, been married for three years, and had settled down into a more comfortable life. There's no one good answer, but for my wife and myself it came down to the fact that kids are, for the most part, enjoyable (for us) to have around. They aren't for everyone, and every one of use knows someone who does such a crappy job of parenting that they shouldn't have kids. But for those of us who think "you know, we don't care if we get rich, and we'd like to share our lives with another person", the rewards are actually pretty good. Unconditional love is one amazing aspect of it, and until you experience that you won't have a clue what I'm talking about. --Kickstart70-T-C 06:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Id probably say because they feel obligated to by society. Though not everyone has kids, everyone has had parents, and there's always pressure (especially in early years) to start a family of your own and be like your parents. As for me though I hate babies and dislike children. And I'd never accept all the discomfort of menstuation, pregnancy, and childbirth to become a woman, even for the profit of adoption agencies. Though investing all that left over money sounds good..

I also dislike children. I hear babies crying and see little kids screaming and running around and I just want to be somewhere else. The noise goes right through me. Then there is the nappies, vomit, illness, food, clothes, doing stuff with them, etc. Having a kid would mean having to change my life and become a different person - but I'm perfectly happy with things as they are. This is also why I'm single most of the time - I just can't be bothered with the hassle of trying to keep a woman happy when, TBH I'm only interested in the sex/physical contact. I'm one of those guys who likes to be left alone most of the time - I'd be perfectly happy living by myself on a desert island, provided there were cigarettes. :) --Kurt Shaped Box 18:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Japanese stores in Manhattan[edit]

Can anyone recommend stores in Manhattan that specialize in Japanese products, or give me the links to sites with that information? Thanks, it'd be much appreciated --anon

A Google search for "Japanese stores in Manhattan" produces several useful-looking hits. ЯЄDVERS 22:21, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

  • The site looks useful (Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with the site or anyone connected with it. Not responsible for content. May contain nuts.) --Cam 01:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
There's a Takashimaya on 5th Ave. Ridiculous prices. --Nelson Ricardo 02:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

There should be a few Hello Kitty stores around. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

You will like Century 21, hich has lots of brands. I like that shop :-) Iolakana|(talk) 17:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

geographical distance[edit]

could you please tell me what the distance is between nottingham england and london england? and possibly how long it would take to get there by rail? thank you, i appreciate it. my e-mail address is: [redacted to prevent spam]

Distance, 123 miles (source).
A very basic search at this page, showed 5 hours 15 minutes from Nottingham to King's Cross Station. --LarryMac 20:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
No way does it take that long. Direct trains take between 1 hr 45 mins and 2 hrs. And the London terminus is St Pancras, not Kings Cross (although admittedly they are next to each other). --Richardrj 20:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) This site indicates there's a two hour train from Nottingham to St. Pancras Station. It's operated by Midland Mainline, if you want to purchase tickets or check schedules. Depending on which train you catch, it could be as quick as 1h45. You probably could have found this faster, though, by Googling say "nottingham london rail" and "nottingham london distance". --ByeByeBaby 20:59, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the misinformation on the timing. I guessed at which station in London to choose in my search, being an ignorant Yank and all that. I did say it was a very basic search though :-) --LarryMac 01:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
For any rail travel in the UK, the NRE journey planner is your best friend. — QuantumEleven 09:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

How much profit does Nintendo receive when they publish a third-party developer's game?[edit]

The title says it all. To be more specific, I was wondering about Rad Racer for the NES. The game sold an impressive 1.96 million units, with the majority of those being sold in the U.S. Apparently, however, Square (the developer) was still in financial hell after Rad Racer's debut, and it wasn't until Final Fantasy that they were in clear waters. So, knowing that the U.S. was published and licensed by Nintendo for its U.S. release (Square didn't have a U.S. branch back in 1987), did Nintendo take in a LOT of the profits or what? Thanks! Tristam 21:24, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I imagine they get a cut of the revenue generated from the game, not the profit. I doubt this information is made public, but if I were to guess, I would say about 20% ---Mayor Westfall

Indeed, a percentage is more likely than a set in stone amount. --Proficient 17:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

great grandfather[edit]

I am looking for joseph carey my great grandmother nora 0 carey I dont know what her mothers name was. I know they lived in franklyn co in the late 1800's can you help me find any thing out about them?

thank you so much (email address removed)

There are a lot of tips on searching, and some very useful internet links, at our article on Genealogy. ЯЄDVERS 22:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

If I where I would try took look at the public records in Franlin from the period.

Chinese names[edit]

I know that in China, a person's last name comes before their first. In my experience, most formal documents require that you put your last name first. In China, do they put their first name first on documents or what?

I'm not sure: I'll ask my friend and get back to you if you leave your IP address. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 23:11, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
no. In China, documents asking for your name usually ask for it in a single field (not separated surname and given names). Chinese surnames are almost always a single character long and the very few Chinese compound surnames in existence are well known, so it is easy to tell from context what is the surname and what is the given name. In addition, people refer to each other using their full name (even among family members) in Chinese (e.g. "My friend, Jiang Zemin") a lot more than in English (e.g. "My friend, Bob").
In this bi-lingual HK immigration form, they ask for the Chinese name in a single field (姓名) but ask for the English name in two separate fields, surname first. --Jiang 23:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Traditionally, most Chinese paperworks require you to submit your fullname (姓名; family name + given name). Since most Chinese names are quit simple in structure with only 1- or 2-character family names given names (more than 95% 1-character) and 1- or 2-character (more than 90% 2-character), it is easy to dicipher a fullname.
Here are some examples (family names are underlined):
  • 白 (Li Bai)
  • 中山 (Sun Zhongshan)
  • 歐陽修 (Ouyang Xiu): More difficult to dicipher
  • 豪年 (Ou Haonian): Painter and calligrapher
  • 歐陽菲菲 (Ouyang Feifei): Singer. I think this is a stage name.
  • 端木蕻良 (Duanmu Hongliang): Finally, a REAL 4-character name.
There are very few 2-character family names in China. Most people know what are these compound surname because there are really very few of them. However, some writers or artists may adopt 2-character family names as their pen names or stage names. Many wuxia authors adopt these names as a way to make their names stand out (e.g. 司馬翎, 諸葛青雲, 司馬紫烟).
Many 2-character family names are quite ancient. Some are evolved from names before Chinese languages became "monosyllabic". However, some are created only several hundred years ago. For example, "范姜" (Fanjiang) is a Hakka family name mostly located in southern China and Taoyuan County (Taiwan). The founder of this family name was a man about 300 years ago. His family name was "范" and his stepfather's family name was "姜". To show his gratitude for his stepfather's care, he named all his five children "范姜" and created a new family name.
Non-Han Chinese people may have longer family names and given names. Educated Han Chinese people used to have many aliases, but these Chinese style name (e.g. zhi, hao) are mostly abolished these days. Very very very few forms reserve a field for these names.
Computerized data processing changed the business convention. Now many computer systems require you to enter your family name and given name separately. -- Toytoy 03:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
The reason you put your surname first on official documents in the West is because it makes sorting easier. (Overlapping given names are more common than overlapping surnames.) With Chinese/Japanese/Korean names, there's no need to do that because the surname already comes first, and given names are less likely to overlap. --Kjoonlee 07:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
One of my PCs is displaying the chinese characters. The other is not. Both mozilla firefox on winXP. What do I need to change on the derelict computer? thanks --Tagishsimon (talk)


I have a black jumper/sweater I'd like to put some white text on. I was hoping there was some sort of material I could use in my inkjet printer that could be ironed onto the product easily and without the possibility of explosions. Do such materials exist?

A hasty Google search holds the key to your quest...EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 23:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Please note that to put light text on a dark shirt, you should use iron-ons specifically designed for dark fabric (it'll be somewhere in the product name) because the "regular" ones aren't white enough; they wind up looking like rubbish. Buy these rather than these, for instance. --ByeByeBaby 01:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Answering questions[edit]

Can I put an answer a question other than the one at the bottom of the page (the newest one)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Russian F (talkcontribs) .

Yes, just click the "edit" button on the section you want to add to. —Keenan Pepper 23:44, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Be bold, Russian! There are also some unanswered ones in the archives (link is page top). --DLL 19:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

TV Guide Covers[edit]

Hi, I'm very new to this site and I've called TV Guide themselfs. I saw an advertisement, since February 2006 to June 2006, in the TV Guide about a book/publication of all the TV Guide Covers, or something like that. Can anyone help me or know what I am talking about? Please contact me via e-mail, <email removed to prevent spam>. I work a ten hour job and it takes me an hour to get to work and another hour to get home. I have very little time to search the Internet. I took my first pick on a Google search and found this site. Thank You. David

Here it is on Amazon. --zenohockey 01:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Another Lethal Weapon Sequel?[edit]

Will there be another sequel to Lethal Weapon in the near future?

It is rumoured that there will be, but nothing is confirmed: see [2], [3], [4]AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That is unlikey, Mel Gibson has recently cut down his movie acting. It seems liking he is phasing out of acting and becoming fulltime producer.

Mel Gibson and Danny Glover's characters have stated numerous times that they are definitely getting too old for... you know the rest.

June 20[edit]

Where can I purchase blank sheets of acetate paper?[edit]

Where can I purchase blank sheets of acetate paper? Javguerre 01:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

A stationery or office supplies store or a copy shop ought to be able to sell you some. If you only need a few sheets, you can probably mooch some from a friendly teacher or professor. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

And remember, don't feed clear acetate into a copier or laser printer! It does a marvellous job of turning into glumpy goop. --Zeizmic 12:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

---When did Wikipedia become an online shopping reference site?? I thought this was a user-friendly reference site viz. an encyclopaedia.

Stanley Cup final Game 7 highlights on TV... not allowed?[edit]

I was watching the late news on my local Fox affiliate. It was the sports segment, and the anchor said that Carolina won, 3-1. Then he said something surprising: "We'd love to show you the highlights...but we're not allowed to." I've never heard of this happening before. Then he went on to the World Cup.

Did ABC really deny Fox the right to show highlights of the Stanley Cup tonight? Or was it just my local Fox/ABC station? Or what? --zenohockey 03:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably - similarly, in Canada, CBC owned the rights to the Olympics, so the sports news channels could show only still frames from various events (and I seem to remember David Letterman's out of focus highlights because CBS couldn't get the rights from NBC). On the other hand, CBC shows the NHL finals here too but the other channels can show highlights. Adam Bishop 21:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
So you get to see a real game instead. Write and thank them. :-) DJ Clayworth 21:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
And a Canadian would say that? --zenohockey 01:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I just blew my Canadian credentials didn't I. They'll probably deport me now. DJ Clayworth 13:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know anything about this specific example, but the "still pictures only" thing has cropped up from time to time here in the UK, generally with regard to boxing. I don't follow boxing so couldn't tell you how common it is, but I remember that (at least at first) the BBC was only allowed to show still frames from Buster Douglas's shock win over Mike Tyson.
What now happens, at least between British networks, is that there's an agreement that "news access" (a minute or so of highlights - so the goals for a football match) is permitted, but that if the BBC uses ITV footage, they have to put up a caption saying something like "Pictures from ITV sport". It seems to work reasonably well. Loganberry (Talk) 23:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Copyright of soundtracks for owners of the original material[edit]

Is it legal to download a videogame's soundtrack if you own the videogame in the US? Is it legal to download the soundtrack to a movie if you own the movie? -Quasipalm 03:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

No, no more than it is legal to take a second copy of a movie or game (or the OST of one) when you already own the original (e.g. stealing). Actually, I take back that "no". Your question is very difficult to answer because the courts are often out-to-lunch when it comes to what part of downloading copywrited material is illegal: the distribution and/or/xor the acceptance. Most of the time, though, both are.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  04:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it illegal? I cannot say. Is it wrong? IMHO no. It's not illegal to record the soundtrack of the game/movie yourself. You have fair use rights. --Kjoonlee 06:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Fair use? Didn't the DMCA and other such laws get rid of such silly things? (Yes, that was sarcasm) --ColourBurst 07:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in the US, they can sue you on a whim. They usually settle for what the market will bear, and I don't think any of this has been tested in court. --Zeizmic 12:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In terms of fair use, it may depend what you mean by "soundtrack". If you mean "an audio recording which is exactly the sounds heard on a movie which you own", that might go one way in court. On the other hand if you mean "a sound recording which has the same name as the movie plus the word Soundtrack", something which often has more complete songs, for example, it might be more likely to go another way as you don't already have exactly what you are getting a copy of. Notinasnaid 13:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks all. I was just wondering. I don't actually pay for music anyway, so it's not like I needed to know. But I was curious if I was breaking the law or not, even though it won't change what I actually do.  :-) -Quasipalm 16:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, that's what the common man does. ;o --Proficient 21:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

mp3 cd burner[edit]

Where can I download a free mp3 cd burner from? --elpenmaster

Didn't you get one with your cd burner?
As our article on optical disc authoring software states, the standard open source program for this task is cdrtools, but that has a command-line interface. I presume you're looking for something easier.
Try doing a search for "cd burner" at and you might find something of interest. --Robert Merkel 05:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
List of optical disc authoring software. I've heard good things about Burrrn. --Kjoonlee 06:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

email me please **email removed**[edit]

Hello. I am currently a girl living in New Zealand. I wish to get a sex change to a male. If possible could you please email me back with any information on this producer as well as as many places round world that does it and costs invovled. I will be looking forward to your reply. Many thanks, Laura

Sorry, we've removed your email address to prevent spam harvesting. You might try our article on Sex reassignment surgery, which has some information and links that might be of use. Needless to say, this kind of surgery is not something one enters into lightly, and is not a simple matter of walking into a doctor's office and asking for it, but you probably already know that. --Robert Merkel 05:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Internet without telephone line[edit]

Which ISP in England can provide broadband without the need of a telephone line? (unsigned)

Ultimately there has to be some kind of connection. Other than a telephone line, your choices include
  • ISDN line: sort of a digital telephone line. Not really broadband. Probably not an option if a phone line is not.
  • Fixed line: sort of an always-on telephone line, very expensive. Ditto.
  • Cable connection: only you will know if cable is available in your area.
  • Satellite connection: satellite broadband is available, subject to planning concerns and line of site from your premises to the satellite. Costs more than phone broadband, obviously.
  • Shared wireless with someone else within around 100 metres who does have broadband.
  • Mobile phone connection for a laptop. These are not very fast at all.

If you can indicate which of these work for you, someone else might be able to help with a suitable ISP; where you are in England may also be relevant. Notinasnaid 09:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I fired my laptop up in Nottingham recently, and picked up a wireless provider which seemed to be providing a city-area-network ... but I don't recall the details. But it makes the point that there may well be copper-less providers out there. --Tagishsimon (talk)


i,ve heard that if u tickle ur(man) nipples..u will get excited...n get question is does tickling nipples of man is also a mastebation????...coz it gives u pleasure...and is there any disadvantages of that?.

IMHO yes, it would count as masturbation. Disadvantages? It doesn't give me enough pleasure. :p --Rentice 10:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
does it effects ur health like real masterbation does!!!!!
"Real" masturbation does not have noticable ill effects. Read the article, please. --Rentice 10:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia, not the Leet Wikipedia. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Business communications[edit]

Due to the fact that I've tried my level best to get outstanding&substantiated notes on the above,i therefore ask you to provide all detailed information concerning the same!

Have you read the article? Business communication. --Kjoonlee 10:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there any spoken article in wikipedia spoken by a woman?[edit]

I doubt it, but take a look at this list: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Spoken_Wikipedia#Active participants and find out for yourself.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  12:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like Laura has a few: History Of New Jersey, Solar eclipse, Markup language, WP:NPOV, WP:EQ, WP:IAR.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  12:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Men have less harmony and differences in frequency and takes less brainpower to understand - apparently a reason most people with voices in their heads have a male voice. --mboverload@ 03:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia also is dominated by men, most active wikipedians are men. (UNSIGNED)

That might have been true in the early days, but I think it's an unverifiable statement now. --M@rēino 16:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The first name of the British Royal Family.[edit]

Is the first name of the BRF known? Thank you. Kahang 12:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean by "first name"? The members of the British Royal Family each have a first name (e.g. for Prince Charles it is Charles), but I don't think that can be what you mean...? Notinasnaid 12:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps you mean their surname? In which case, they don't officially have one, but informally it is Windsor.--Richardrj 12:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
The first member of the artificial House of Windsor was George mk.5, and they all descend from Queen Victoria

- surname-wise, it's anything from Wales to Windsor. The current Prince (whichever one's in the army, I forget) uses 'Wales' (it's on his helmet, at least). Tyrhinis 12:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

There's also Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Mountbatten-Windsor, and Wettin. Quite complicated! --Kjoonlee 13:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget Guelph/Welf. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, your're right, Richardrj, I mean their "last name". Sorry. -- Kahang 13:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

See -- SGBailey 16:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The Royal family seems to be remarkably lacks with regards last names, choosing a name whenever a formality demands surnam. However if I was to declare last name I would probally use the name of the house. As long as their is a house of windsor the Royal family clearly could use the last name of windsor. When Charles Assends as Windsor-Mountbatten, that will be the most appropriate royal last name.

Thanks all!! -- KahangShall we talk? 11:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Closest capital cities[edit]

Which 2 capital cities of adjacent countries are the closest to each other (as the crow flies)? Would it be Montevideo and Buenos Aires? JackofOz 13:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Rome and Vatican City? --Tachikoma 13:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Or Kinshasa and Brazzaville? СПУТНИКCCC P 13:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes Vatican City is in Rome so the distance is zero.


Kinshasa and Brazzaville are the closest both 'serious' capitals I guess : 5.3 miles or 8.5 kilometers.

Bratislava and Budapest :100 miles/163 kilometers..

Yerevan and Tbilisi :107 miles 173 kilometers

My very own Brussels is very close to Luxembourg, the capital ofLuxembourg :110 miles or 177 kilometers. But Pyongyang and Seoul are pretty close too (120 miles or 190 kilometers)

Buenos Aires and Montevideo are at 143 miles or 320 kilometers. Evilbu 14:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Apparently Vienna and Bratislava are the closest, at 64 km. I can't find the distance 'tween Brazzaville and Kinshasa, except that it's a 20 minute ferry. Judging by this photo, i'd imagine they're pretty close. СПУТНИКCCC P 14:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh oopsie, didn't read above. СПУТНИКCCC P 14:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Taking oldies into account : Bonn and Berlin ; Rome and Ravenna ; Paris and Bordeaux or Versailles ... more to come if you wish. --DLL 19:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The more the merrier. I wasn't thinking about enclaves, there's got to be some distance between them, so Vatican/Rome is out. It's looking like Kinshasa-Brazzaville at the moment. (How confusing would it be to live there, with the two countries' names being so similar as well.) Can we have a continent-by-continent breakdown as well? Africa's taken care of. In Europe it seems to be Vienna-Bratislava. Asia - anything closer than Yerevan-Tbilisi? South America - probably Monty-Buenos. What about North America? Australia and Antarctica don't even rate (that's because we're special). But how about Oceania? JackofOz 20:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

And while you're on that, you can probably guess my next question. Which 2 world capitals are the greatest distance apart? and also within each continent/region. JackofOz 23:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In a straight line, or curving with the Earth's circumfrence? Emmett5 23:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

As the crow flies, whatever that means. JackofOz 01:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd say Astana, Kazakhstan and Jakarta, Indonesia. 4481mi/7211km. Ooh, Pretoria, SF and Rabat, MO are more distant: 4721mi/7597km.--Anchoress 00:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Buenos Aires and Beijing are at 12036mi/19369km. Robert Krulwich actually discussed something similar on the radio recently, and referenced our antipodes article[5] in an accompanying webpost.--Pharos 00:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Buenos Aires and Beijing aren't on the same continent, are they? ;-) That's the criteria, same continent or region.--Anchoress 00:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Eh, that criterion not quite as fun :) Anyway, Singapore and Quito are at 12251 mi/19715km. Not sure if these are the most antipodal capitals, but looking at the antipodes map it's almost certainly in that region.--Pharos

I think Basseterre and St. John's would be the closest capitals of independent countries in North America, at 59 miles or 94 kilometers. Castries and Kingstown are pretty close, though, at 62 miles or 99 kilometers.--Pharos 00:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

  • How about Ulan Bator, Mongolia to whatever the capital of Yemen is (Aden?) for Asia? Wellington NZ to London is pretty hard to beat (both in the Commonwealth). Lisiate 00:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
London and Wellington are 18802 km apart. Singapore and Quito beats that. JackofOz 01:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Well here is a distance calculator.--Anchoress 00:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for these lovely quick responses, folks. Here's a summary of what we have so far. Updates and corrections appreciated. JackofOz 01:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I added the furthest capitals for North and South America, and Europe; these are just my guesses, confirmed with the above distance calculator; i probably overlooked something. СПУТНИКCCC P 02:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I've got a new candidate for most distant in Asia: Sana'a and Tokyo.--Pharos 02:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Great. The Bratislava-Vienna distance was in at 64 km, but Bratislava says it's 50 km and on mapcrow it's 56 km. I'll be using mapcrow as the standard measure for all these. JackofOz 03:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Continent Closest capitals Most distant capitals
World Brazzaville and Kinshasa (9 km) Madrid and Wellington (19,837 km)
Africa Brazzaville and Kinshasa (9 km) Pretoria and Rabat (7,597 km)
America, North Basseterre and St. John's (94 km) Ottawa and Panama City (4,066 km)
America, South Buenos Aires and Montevideo (230 km) Caracas and Montevideo (5,165 km)
Asia Amman and Jerusalem (69 km) Sana'a and Tokyo (9,613 km)
Europe Bratislava and Vienna (56 km) Nicosia and Reykjavik (4,872 km)
Oceania Majuro and South Tarawa (662 km) Apia and Dili (6,832 km)

More distant capitals: Wellington and Madrid are 19837.49 km apart.-gadfium 03:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Updated JackofOz 03:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I did Oceania, I think. Since I assume we only care about independent countries, and Oceania only has 14 of those, I just found the airport codes for the capital cities and ran them through the Great Circle Mapper (my query), then just sorted. The mapcrow link above wasn't able to verify distance between my pairings, but they seem correct. If we don't want to include Timor-Leste in Oceania, then the second longest distance is 6,777 km from Koror to our old friend Wellington. (Possible ad slogan: Wellington: When you're here, you're nowhere near anywhere else.) Also FYI, I left out Jakarta on the theory that while part of Indonesia was in Oceania, the capital wasn't. If we included it, then we could argue for Washington as an Oceanic capital (on the basis of Hawaii). I also assume we don't care about countries with two capitals -- aren't Amsterdam and The Hague pretty close? One is a legislative capital, one administrative. --ByeByeBaby 03:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for Oceania. I guess one could define any geopolitical areas one liked and continue the process forever. Maybe the entire Pacific area would be worth looking at. I've corrected Montevideo-Buenos Aires, they're only 230 km apart, not 320 km. And I've found a more distant pair in that continent, Montevideo and Caracas. Interesting that Monty figures in both the nearest and furthest pair in its continent. (Who said Wikipedia was good for nothing?) Great work, people. JackofOz 10:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
To be pedantic, many European atlases put Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan in Europe rather than Asia. Jameswilson 23:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

For Asia, Jerusalem is approximately under 70km from Amman, less than half the distance between Tbilisi and Yerevan (173 km). (No need to quibble about what continent the Caucasuses are in! (BTW they're in Europe)). Loomis 02:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Great, thanks Loomis. As to continentality (is that a word? If not, I hereby coin it), particularly with Europe-Asia, it all comes down to which definition we're using today. JackofOz 13:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I was actually dissappointed when I first discovered that the Caucuses were indeed in Europe. I would have much preferred to have discovered that they were in Asia. You know well of my deep animosity towards the politically correct. What a mess they would find themselves in to discover that "Caucasians" are indeed "Asians"! The whole PC vocabulary would have to be rewritten! One could no longer euphemistically refer to an East-Asian (i.e. Oriental) person or a Central Asian (i.e. Indian) person as simply an "Asian", as white people (i.e. Caucasians) would have just as much a claim to being Asian as the others! What a mess they'd find themselves in! Oh can dream. Loomis 22:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and BTW, should someone come along and dispute the fact that Jerusalem is indeed the capital of Israel (as I know me, if there's no prospect for controversy, where's the fun?), I'd simply add that there's another rather large city in Israel called Tel Aviv, which for some odd reason many nations seem to prefer to put their embassies in, (perhaps they like beautiful the ocean view?) In any case, Tel Aviv is about 111km from Amman, still beating out Tbilisi and Yerevan by quite a bit. But that's a purely moot point, as everyone knows that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, while Tel Aviv is its largest city. (A common and innocent assuming Sydney is the capital of Australia). Loomis 23:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Being categorical about where the dividing line between Europe and Asia is drawn, is not likely to be very helpful in general. Our article on Europe seems to have a foot in three camps (a rather uncomfortable position). Georgia is listed as being at least a possibility for being part of Europe, whereas Armenia is not. This gives a whole new meaning to arbitrariness. Transcontinental nations doesn't really resolve the problem.
Btw, I see some confusion between "caucuses" (the plural of caucus) and the singular word Caucasus. JackofOz 23:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Transcripts for student in approximately 1986[edit]

I would like to access my transcripts from approximately 1986 when I attended your university. My name is Masteneh Jafari. My address at that time was Colbeh Sadi, Shiraz Plastic, Mood Avenue,First Eight Meter Road, fourth house. I was enrolled in the midwife program. I attended for two and one half years. If you could please send me this information I would be greatly appreciative. I would like to continue my education in the USA and need this to verify what courses I have taken. Please send it to me in care of Address removed

We're an encyclopedia, not a university. You'll need to direct your question to the relevant university's registrar. — Lomn | Talk 14:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll have to check our records, but I don't think we even have your transcripts. Because this is an encyclopedia. --Optichan 16:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

what a weird question. since when do we have a midwife program?

wait, since at least 1986, apparently :) 18:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC).
Simple transposition of posts, I'd say. There's probably some university records department looking at a request for information about some odd subject and saying "What a weird question, wonder why they asked us this. We're a university, not some kind of Wikky-whatever thingamy". JackofOz 20:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Watchlist or bookmarks[edit]

How do I save a search or a page it returns, for future use? I can't find info on My Watchlist in the Help section and I sometimes do not use the same computer, so bookmarks built into each browser won't do. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by <--email removed--> <--email removed--> • contribs) 17:01, 20 June 2006 UTC.

Having logged in under your username, you click on "Watch this page". To get to it you click on "My Watchlist". -- SGBailey 16:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
You could read Help:Watchlist --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 17:54, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
You can also create a subpage in your namespace if you are logged in. For example, if your username was User:SoandSo, you could create a page at User:SoandSo/Links, which you could paste page names into. --Fastfission 22:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Thank you both for the above was really helpful***

Laptop computer[edit]

I have 2 Questions) 1. Do laptop computers play CD-ROM video games and 2. How much would one of these cost?

  1. Yes, assuming the computer has a CD-ROM (or a software emulator for one). A laptop is still a computer and is no functionally different from a standard desktop PC.
  2. Laptops generally cost about twice as much as a comparable desktop. However, that makes for a massive range of price, and what's best depends heavily on what its target environment is. — Lomn | Talk 18:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Some computer games do have system requirements that might preclude them running on a laptop, however. For example, some games require a relatively high-powered graphics processor, something that a low-cost laptop, or one designed for business users might not have. --LarryMac 20:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
They can play games, but as LarryMac says, unless you are willing to spend a lot of money you are often constrained to lower-quality graphics cards and things like that. Additionally it is very hard to upgrade laptop hardware in comparison with desktop machines. As for price... depends entirely on the make of the laptop. Some are relatively cheap ($400-900), and there is not much of an upper limit to them. --Fastfission 22:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

gas engines[edit]

I have come across a reference to a single stroke gas motorcycle engine and cannot find any reference to anything but 2 stroke, 4 stroke, wankel, etc. Do you have any information available on how this engine works or is this another way of saying 2 stroke?

Thank you,

Marty ````

Sounds like another way of saying 2-stroke to me, as two strokes (up + down) would constitute a single circular cycle of the shaft. Probably just a glitch in terminology. — Lomn | Talk 18:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I suspect your reference actually means a single cylinder engine, which could be either 2-stroke or 4-stroke.-gadfium 22:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Armed Forces and Space[edit]

If/when space travel (in both the normal and sci-fi senses) becomes possible, it is reasonable to assume that the armed forces will take control over it. I was wondering which force it would come under (at least in the UK, I don't know other countries' arrangements). Would it be under the Royal Navy (because there would, presumably, be space-ships), the RAF (because they travel around in the sky) or under a whole new division? How is it likely to work? Daniel () 18:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

We'd be getting into "unknown territory", both metaphorically and literally. We couldn't assume that humans would be the only beings with an interest in having some say about this. JackofOz 20:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I suspect that it would be under the Air Force, since in the end spaceflight has more in common with atmospheric flight than it does ground operations or water operations (even underwater ones). At least, that's how I imagine it would be in the US, also because the Air Force is the biggest sponsor of space-based research and activity (such as rockets), I believe (the Navy and the Army also have rocket forces and research and things like that, but the bulk of them are under control of the Air Force. This is not the same elsewhere, though; i.e. in Russia the Army controls the strategic rocket forces). However it is also highly likely that if the militarization of space did take place on a large scale, most governments would set up an autonomous branch of operations for it. --Fastfission 22:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I would expect a mix of civilian and military "flights" in space, just as there are mixes in sea travel and air travel. StuRat 04:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

there is an article on this, there are treaties governing space, no country or entity can control, buy, sell, test weapons, or claim soverenty over any part of space. i think the article is called interstellar space treaties or sometghing like that, read it a long time ago. 09:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Does that treaty only cover space itself or things that happen to be in space like planets (if so presumably it specifically excludes the earth), asteroids, etc.
Dealing with the original question. Space travel is possible, in the U.S.A. it is dealt with by the NASA. There are commercial space travel operations in planning (such as Virgin Galactic utilising SpaceShipOne's technology) but this is civillian and not controlled by any branch of the military (apart from arguably air traffic control). I wouldn't expect any significant Star Fleet style military space force to emerge until there is a real need to fight up there (eg aliens to fight) or there are significant advantages to fighting other human space forces in space rather than just using space as a base for missile launches. Of course there are I believe treaties against putting rockets & bombs in space but if the perceived benefit ever outweights the perceived consequences these will be broken. AllanHainey 11:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

the treaty covers interstellar space, planets, asteroids and just about any thing else extra terrestrial. read the article called Outer Space Treaty. very interesting, and should answer all your questions. take it easy 13:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

If such occures they would likely create a new force. Their is no reason to belive that the navy would be qualified to operate this space. The competency of operating occean ships does equal competency in operating a space ship. In deed the only thing a space ship and ocean ship have common is word ship. The Air force might be able to do however. Space so complex and different terriestial flight that Air force would not be a commpentent agency. Instead a knew specialised branch would likely be created. Before the war on terror began the Rumsfeld Defense depart was quiently planing the United States Military Space Service, which would have function as a coequal branch of the military. With resources and time spent time on the war on terror that plan has been postponed.

Length of Time Asset can be held in Construction in Progress[edit]


I have an Accountancy question: How long can you keep assets/unfinished projects in the "Construction in Progress" account. Is there a maximum number of years before transferring this unfinished project and capitalizing the asset and depreciating it.

A project was ongoing, however there is no definite date for completion of the project, not sure what to do with the costs associated which are sitting in CIP. What is long-term time frame of keeping asset here until the project is complete.

Also, would like to know what are US GAAP guidelines on this question as well as IFRS International Financial Reporting Standards guidelines on this question.

Thanks for any help on this question.


What is that citrus?[edit]

When I was working in Yemen about 15 years ago, they used to cut a citrus and eat its skin and pith. This citrus was lemony color and the flesh looked so shrunk and dense. You can only eat the pith and it was delicious. The whole fruit was not as light as large-pith citrus I ate after, but was not heavy either. I looked everywhere for it trying to find its name, but in vein. None of the citrus listed on Wikipedea fitted my memory of it, and no one seems to know it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 21:23, 20 June 2006 UTC.

Maybe it was a "sweet orange"? --Proficient 21:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

My parents have an old tree (probably 80+ years)with similar fruit, but the flesh is edible as well (and very tasty also). The fruit look like greenish-yellow, lumpy lemons. We call them Lemonades but I've no idea whether this is the formal name for them. Lisiate 23:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Actually, a quick browse of the list of citrus fruits makes me believe the fruit I'm describing is the Citron. Does that image look familiar? Lisiate 23:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi everyone, I am the writer of the question. I looked at pics of citron, but it is not the one. Well, I will keep looking, but keep an eye on it. The difference between citron and this fruit is that the flesh of the fruit is way smaller inside. Thank you.


Hi, why do Prostitutes charge more for a 'Greek' hour, and what does that mean? Serious question.

Travelling to Greece means anal sex, and it's more because: it's riskier health-wise for the SP (service provider), it can be painful, it can be humiliating, and, supply and demand. Few women do it, the demand is there, so they can charge a lot and men will pay.--Anchoress 00:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
So the question is, why is anal sex associated with Greece? —Keenan Pepper 01:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
BTW, HERE is a list of sex trade acronyms and euphemisms. I haven't been able to find an explanation of the euphemism, but I know that there are a lot of them in the sex trade to get around the solicitation laws, and maybe it has to do with the classical Greek traditions of pederasty?--Anchoress 02:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
While anal sex was not a widespread practice in ancient Greece, the popular misperception that any homosexuality must involve anal sex no doubt lead to the association of anal sex with Greece (although some grease might well be advised :-) ). StuRat 04:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
The above answer is probably the most correct one. There is widespread belief that in Athens men would only sleep with women when wanting to have a child (or so I've heard), and the tradition of pederasty may have also induced a belief that Greek males where homosexual. And just as StuRat said, homosexuality is associated with anal intercourse. Maxipuchi (talk) 17:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

June 21[edit]

Hispanic Immigrants / US Colleges[edit]


I am looking for resources that help hispanic immigrants (college students) assimilate themselves into Americain society. For a hispanic immigrant student looking to attend a United States college, what resources are available to him/her? (On a nationwide basis). What services do colleges offer to immigrants, and what can a hispanic immigrant expect to find in the US college system that is different than that of their own college system (using Mexican colleges as a base, even though there will be differences in where people come from). Any and all ideas would be VERY appreciated. Thanks!

The only major issue I would expect is English proficiency. Hispanic culture isn't so different from US culture that anything else is likely to be an issue. This might not be the case if we were talking about Arabs in US colleges, which might have differences in religion, polygamy, attitudes towards women, dress, and customs. StuRat 03:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Another major difference would be working from 2-4 instead of taking a nap Mayor Westfall 15:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, wow. Geez. WTF? I'm truly out of words. --RiseRover|talk 06:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Dog Eat Dog World?[edit]

do dogs ever eat other dogs? aren't hot dogs like canabalism to them?--Bee(y)Ti 01:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I think this page is for serious questions. That kind of stuff might go on the Uncyclopedia Forumthough. On a lighter note, no, it is not cannibalism. Hot Dogs are not, in fact, made of dogs. Russian F 03:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe that dogs will occasionally resort to cannibalism, as do people, and, I suppose, all carnivores and omnivores. StuRat 03:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Seems likely. --Proficient 17:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Hot dogs are not made out of dogs, contary to popular belief. They are instead made out of pork, beef, chicken, and byproducts. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 20:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
"Popular" belief? I've never thought hot dogs were made of dogs?? I've never known of anyone who has?! --Username132 (talk) 16:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I believe that in harsh environments where they use dog-sleds; as a last resort the weaker dogs are fed to the others.Capt.Scott came in for much criticism (from more pragmatic races)because he shot his dogs at the South Pole and didn't eat them.hotclaws**==

( 06:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC))

Considering the great size disparity in dogs it is conciveable bread dog could easily over take a smaller breed dog.

Let me rise to the occasion and ask "Does one eat a "bread dog" after slicing it up and buttering it ?" :-) StuRat 17:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Built-in Wikipedia functions[edit]

I can't figure out a more specific place to ask this, so here goes. What "built-in functions" does Wikipedia have and where can I find a list of them? I'm probabably using the wrong name form them but they look like templates and are things like "PAGENAME" "REDIRECT" "CURRENTTIMESTAMP", etc. Thanks, Rfrisbietalk 02:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

See Help:Variable (except REDIRECT isn't a variable). —Keenan Pepper 02:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! :-) Rfrisbietalk 04:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Is "REDIRECT" in some sort of special group? Rfrisbietalk 04:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I guess I really was looking for Help:Magic words. Thanks. Rfrisbietalk 05:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Logo Typeface[edit]

Hi, This is an odd question and I wasn't sure where to ask. I was wondering what kind of font(typeface) is used for the "WIKIPEDIA" part of the Wikipedia logo.


It looks like Garamond. --Canley 04:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Harddrive error checking[edit]

I'm running the error checking tool on WinXP on a large harddrive. I knew it would take a while, but it's been stuck in Phase 4 for about six hours without the progess bar moving although the harddrive activity light is blinking and I'm not using the harddrive in any other way. Is it safe to End Task? --Ephilei 06:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It probably is safe to end task. What was Phase 4 doing, anyway? What elements did it successfully complete?--Anchoress 13:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Always be careful with other hdd utilities that partition and such. Stopping them may corrupt something and will lead to a lot of trouble. It's always good to backup and image though. --Proficient 17:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Ask User:Cernen. He is a Microsoft certified XP expert. —WAvegetarian(talk) 21:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Most and least central capital[edit]

Hi, this continues the fun capital topic :)

If you take a look at the location of Ashgabat or Tashkent or Bratislava, you can't help but feeling that these are not so central.

In fact they could as well be the capital of another country.

What are the most and least central capitals? Now as a math student I know I should properly define that. One could calculate the shortest distance between the city and the geographical center of the nation, but one also has to take the actual size of the country into account.

In my opinion London is not central, while Madrid and Brussels are.

Evilbu 08:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Canberra is very un-central, even given the relative size of Australia. Not sure how to do the required calculation though AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 08:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Washington DC is thousands of miles from the geographic center of the US - especially if you include alaska and hawaii. I suspect Beijing is too. Raul654 08:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. As I said I am still in doubt how to properly define 'most central'. One could divide the distance to the geographic center by the square root of the area, or by the diameter. Then again, who cares if in a small country like Luxemburg the capital is near the border? Evilbu 10:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

A few more: -
Least central? Possibly Nouméa, although that's in a territory rather than a true "nation". Maputo would be another possibility. Most central would likely be Wellington, Windhoek, or Dodoma. Grutness...wha? 13:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Wellington's cropping up all over the place today. JackofOz 13:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the centralness of the capital be defined as a ratio of the distance of the captial to the centre, and the distance of the centre to the furthest border. Philc TECI 16:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Good proposal. --Proficient 17:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It is said that Madrid was deliberately chosen as capital because of its central position. Same for Brasilia? Jameswilson 23:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if by "capital", we can include state capatals of the U.S.A., I've got a VERY non-central one for you. If you look out of the windows of the State Capitol in Trenton, New Jersey, you can look into Pennsylvania

Yup - Trenton would probably be the most non-central state capital, and I'll repeat my nod for Maputo for national capital. Grutness...wha? 05:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I would disagree with Trenton. It may be very far west in New Jersey, but it's very central on NJ's main North-South axis. My vote goes for Juneau, Alaska, with Cheyenne, Wyoming in second. They are both in the southeastern corners of their states. Also, on the national capital issue, it's worth noting that Washington, D.C. is not very central on the USA's main East-West axis, but that when the country was founded, it was fairly close to the population center and geographic center. Brazil had a similar problem until they moved the capital to Brasília.--M@rēino 16:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


What are the principles of growth and development? One is endocrine glands

One is do your own homework Mayor Westfall 15:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


This topic fits into the Wikipedia category of bad jokes and other deleted nonsense. It is suggested that it be moved to it. Please discuss this on the discussion section for this topic.

Oh great, some of you already have. I guess my maintenance help isn't needed after all. I feel so useless. This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. You think I'm making that up. Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without trying to invent any more of it.—Marvin 18:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

While waiting for the kettle to boil, and the toast to pop, i was reading the ingredients of my bread, it says it contains E472e. What is this, how does it affect me, my bread, and ducks and sans and whatever else might eat bread. 10:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What are "sans"? JackofOz 10:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Sans are small creatures which are addicted to eating bread. You can catch them by setting special magical traps called "san witches". Grutness...wha? 13:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC) methinks it was meant to be "swans"
I must be getting Alzheimers. That seriously never occurred to me, Grutty. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when Kiwis spot things that Ozzies miss. Lol.
See here, they are "Mono- and diacetyl tartaric acid esters of mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids". CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
... which are emulsifiers. See E number. –Mysid(t) 11:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

sans are a type o i meant swans. lol.

Great, thanks. I never knew what kind of blood swans had till now. JackofOz 14:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
This question is in serious danger ofbeing moved to BJAODN or somewhere similar. Grutness...wha? 02:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC) "Grutty"??? It suits you, mate. Besides, you don't get a say about the nick names your friends give you. JackofOz 12:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Permanent deletion of malicious identifying information?[edit]

I know this can be done because I have seen it done, but I can't remember where I saw it or how it was done. Basically one editor has abused the edit summary facility in an attempt to maliciously post identifying information about me, I would very much like that permanently deleted. How do I go about it? Thanks--Zeraeph 12:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Post your request on the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents page.--Anchoress 12:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Franchisee density[edit]

7 ELEVEn Outles in Sindian.jpg

Is there an article on franchisee density of chain stores? -- Toytoy 13:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Lewis Black has a great piece.

From the beginning of time, man has looked at the heavens and firmly believed that the end of the universe ends out in space. It's not true. The end of the universe happens to be in the United States. I have seen it. And, oddly enough, it's in Houston, Texas...I know, I was shocked too... I left the comedy club there and walked down the street. On one corner, there was a Starbucks. And across the street from that Starbucks, in the exact same building as that Starbucks, was a Starbucks. At first I thought the sun was playing tricks on my eyes. But, no. There was a Starbucks across from a Starbucks. And that, my friends, is the end of the universe. People have said to me, 'how do you know?' And I say, 'go there. Stand between those two Starbucks and look at your watch. Time stands still.' And if you turn this way, and look at just this Starbucks, immediately you think, 'You know, There cannot possibly be a Starbucks behind me. Nobody would have been that stupid, to have built a Starbucks across from a Starbucks. And if there was a just and loving God, he wouldn't allow that kind of shit to go down.' So you turn slowly, thinking, 'well, I'll see a Gap, or a Denny's, maybe even a Mobil Station... BUT THERE'S A STARBUCKS!' - The End of the Universe

- From [6]

book makers rules[edit]

What is the minimum space required to start a betting shop

Rather odd little question. What do you mean? JackofOz 14:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

0 square feet/0 square meters. You can operate as a bookie without any facility at all. Just carry the cash and betting list on you at all times. StuRat 14:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

But, if you must have a facility, let's say a small room only large enough for the bookie and one customer, and a desk to hold the cash and betting lists. StuRat 14:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Knowing how to properly set up a business and acquire the needed licenses would be a more useful question. - Mgm|(talk) 08:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The occupation is nearly universally illegal, in the US out side of Nevada their are no bookies outside the undergroun economy.

No... Vitriol 04:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it was "nearly universally" illegal. You can find at least one bookies' shop on any British high street. To answer the original question, there is no minimum size restriction on gambling offices in the UK, and although the applicant has to provide an address to receive his (or her) license, the relevant page in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport website says that "Actual entry to licensed premises in order to place a bet is not essential". High street betting shops are usually pretty small, perhaps 20 square metres, because they don't have to have room for any actual stock. Ironfrost 06:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)* May be rules about toilet facilities for staff and customers.hotclaws**==( 05:20, 27 June 2006 (UTC))


If I owned a convient store, and somehow got 7-11 signs & other branded material e.g. cups, how would 7-11 ever find out I'm infringing on their trademark...I mean, it seems like no one would ever notice? WHo checks on these things? This isnt just a question specific to this situation. If I were to build a building, who checks and makes sure I comply with all applicable laws...? Thanks. _Mayor WF

Da, da, daaaaaa: Captain Copyright to the rescue! I hope somebody supplies a more useful answer shortly. --GraemeL (talk) 15:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Ironically, that article could be placed under my next question, as an example of Irony. Mayor Westfall 15:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

(1) Don't assume that your customers are not fervent supporters of copyright and any other law; if your shop is seen to be breaking the law, it might be reported. In some cases (e.g. if a company is using pirate software) there might even be a reward. (2) In the UK, you must submit plans for building (describing all techniques and materials) for approval before you start; on completion, the building control people have the right to inspect and demand changes. Planning permission is also required, but this does not deal with details of construction, only the overall appearance. Notinasnaid 17:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Some companies have active people who check for infringement of copyrights. I don't know if 7-11 is one of them or how they operate. But basically, obviously if they don't know and can't know (for whatever reason), then they can't know that they should sue you. But if they do, somehow, find out, you're in trouble. (Which would be a great way for an employee to get back at you if they got fired.) --Fastfission 18:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

But if some one built a building without getting approval, who would notice? I would think the building approval guys would assume that approval was requested and recieved. Who checks up on this stuff? -Mayor WF

In the UK, if a building appeared without planning permission, the neighbours would notice, and probably report it. Every single building put up in the UK has to have public notices posted, discussion, agreement. If a building has planning permission but not building approval, the chances are a system will eventually pick that up, since they are different departments of the same organisation. Yes, things do slip the net sometimes. For example, you need building permission to convert an attic to a room. But we purchased a house where this had been done without permission, and it caused us a lot of difficulty when we came to sell it. Anything that looks like a recent change is likely to send potential buyers off to check the official records. Notinasnaid 18:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Surely your customers would very soon notice if they didn't get the goods and services they expected to get from a regular 7-11, and they would complain to head office. Why else would you call it 7-11 if you didn't expect to get customers who were familiar with the brand?--Shantavira 18:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

In my area there's an 11-7 [sic] (they even write it "11-Seven" superimposed). If they could get away with more, I'm sure they would.--Pharos 21:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Virtually all franchises (and I'm sure 7-11 is in this category) have managers from Headquarters who travel from town to town inspecting all the stores. If they drove past a fake 7-11, they'd know, and they would be on the phone with 7-11's in-house legal counsel within minutes. --M@rēino 16:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Where I am now, they have a "Lucky 7", whose logo is a 7 with lucky written through the middle, just like 7-11's. I don't know how they get away with it. -Goldom ‽‽‽ 13:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Opposite of Irony[edit]

Often I encounter a situation that is kinda the oppostite of Irony, and I was wondering if there is a name for this. I guess I would give an example of pulling out of a car wash and moments later a bird takes a giant shit all over my car. Or sort of like the situations mentioned in Allanis Morest's song Ironcic, which Ironically, contains no irony. Mayor Westfall 15:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at Sod's law and Murphy's law. The article on Sod's Law actually makes the same point as you about the Morissette lyric. --Richardrj 15:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I was trying to find a term that doesn't always have to be something negative. LIke If I open a box of cookies and find....cookies :) Is there such term? There should be Mayor Westfall 16:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It -is- ironic though that after the carwash feces gets on. --Proficient 17:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Irony often has to do with bad timing (as in the car wash example). The opposite might be synchronicity -- the bird nails your car just before you enter the car wash. JamesMLane t c 20:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A 2nd helping of Irony[edit]

The article on IRony claims that [Alanis Morissette’s popular 1995 song “Ironic” breathed new life into the ongoing controversy over the definition of irony. The song attracted a great deal of attention from prescriptivists for its (arguably) flagrant misuse of the word ironic. Morissette’s alleged misuses of the word include the following:

It’s like a traffic jam / when you’re already late He won the lottery / and died the next day

Among those who assert that the song uses an invalid definition of irony, many find it ironic that Morissette would write a song titled “Ironic” with no actual irony in it. In 2004, Morissette herself acknowledged that the song doesn’t live up to the definition, which is what makes it ironic.]

Wouldn't it be Ironic if someone was overly cautious about flying, and then, when they finally do, the plane crashes? Or winning the lottery, and therefore appearing to be very lucky, but then suddenly dieing? Isnt that Irony? Mayor Westfall 15:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I had thought that there were some examples of irony among the bad luck. In my view the entire song is a wrapper for a single couplet "meeting the man of my dreams/and then meeting his beautiful wife". That struck me as irony, but it doesn't meet Wikipedia's definition which hinges on a difference between what is said, and what is understood. For instance, if the song had revealed through storytelling that this man was married, by giving us hints that the singer didn't pick up on, then simply said that she had met the man of her dreams; that would be irony. Ironically, I think the lyrics of "Perfect" on the same album are much higher in irony. (Note that the use of "ironically" in the previous sentence, which sounds perfectly fine to me, doesn't seem to match Wikipedia's definition either). Notinasnaid 17:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
If you look under "cosmic irony" (rather than verbal irony) in the Wikipedia definition you get a bit closer to the usage you used in the end with the "Ironically". I don't think any of the examples in the Morissette song are "irony" -- most of them are just examples of bad luck. I don't think in the lottery example the connection between the winning and dying (via luck) is strong enough to consistute as ironic -- if you won the lottery the day before hyperinflation set in, that might be ironic, because the money/luck connection is stronger. Meeting the man of your dreams and finding out he was your father would be ironic (in a classical tragic sense, so to speak); I don't know if meeting the man of your dreams and finding out he's married counts (that is just bad luck, but not a true disconnect from the expected). --Fastfission 01:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I thought the whole song was just whinging--hotclaws**==( 06:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC))
I guess the lesson is "don't pick up general knowledge from pop singers"! --ColourBurst 06:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Am I a racist?[edit]

I recently noticed the following thought-provoking userbox

X This user does not believe in the existence of human races, except as a social construct. X

, which I found to be really profound. I strongly believe there are no signifigant differences between the 'races' of people, but I do believe that people's reaction to the races or perecieved differences in the races causes signifigant differences in demograpics.

I feel that certain demographics have allowed themselves to absorb certain 'race'-specific traits, such the 'bling-bling' culture of young black males, where there are social presures that are not present for other races to spend money on frivilous things. Of course this is just one example, but I feel there are differences, even differences that make a race inferior/superior with respect to another one on certain issues like finanical management, but I do not feel these are the result of the 'race' difference itself, but rather people's reaction to the 'race' difference, via creating sub-cultures that are race specific. Does that make me a racist? Mayor Westfall 15:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well the races are different. for example, whites are better at swimming, and blacks are better at running. A statment of this fact does not make me rascist, so I don't think you are rascist either. Philc TECI 16:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Depends on what you mean by "better at swimming", "better at running", and "racist". I mean, at extremes you get anomalies anyway; Yao Ming is currently the tallest guy in the NBA, Liu Xiang tied the 110m hurdles record, Shani Davis is the current record holder for 1000m and 1500m speed skating, etc. and the categories for "white", "black", "Asian" and others are so broad anyway that it's impossible to assign characteristics like that to them. The fact that, for example, for many years ice hockey players have been predominately white could be no more sinister than the fact that more white people go into junior hockey leagues at a younger age. On the other hand, it could be from the fact that hockey itself is an expensive sport and because of institutional racism black families will have less opportunity to get into hockey leagues in the first place. Hockey is an expensive sport, whereas running, basketball and soccer are not. Swimming is somewhat of an expensive sport, because the facilities takes quite a bit of money to build.
Specifically, the phenomenon Mayor Westfall talks about where social pressure leads kids to behave a certain way based on their physical traits is called "stereotype threat", a term coined by Claude Steele of Stanford. [7] is a very brief article on the phenomenon. --ColourBurst 06:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Phil, had you added "from the cops" at a strategic point in your post, it would have made you racist. Mayor Westfall 16:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

lol, yeah that would change it up a bit if placed in the right location. XM 17:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Just a bit, but I'm not from the US so we don't have that racial sterotype anyway. And without the extra addition its not rascist. Philc TECI 17:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It still looks sort of rascist to me. Anyway, I'd urge you to read an essay featured in the short version of the Norton Reader, concerning genetic diversity and stereotypes. To paraphrase its point, lots of Caribbeans are good sprinters and lots of Koreans are good archers, but not necessarily because of race. Can't find the book right now. --Kjoonlee 06:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe I'm confusing two essays, one about genetic diversity and one about racial stereotypes. --Kjoonlee 06:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Not so much because of race, but because of the physical build associated with race, example, blacks have thinner longer legs bones, higher hips, better constructed lower bodies (for running), lower muscle density, allowing for better blood supply to muscles, giving an advantage in activities, where blood oxygen is used quickly such as accelerating in a sprint, these are the carachteristics of good sprinter, central africans have a better strength to bodyweight and height ratio for middle distance running, and whites are not so sure why though, a lot better at swimming, if you dont believe me watch the olympics, you'll be lucky to see a white sprinter, kenyans and ethiopians will do amazingly in the middle distance, and all the finalist swimmers will be white. Philc TECI 00:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
That's probably influential, but then, how many white people take up sprinting as enthusiastically as Africans? How many Africans have access to swimming pools, seas, lakes and rivers? Surely there's nothing special with Koreans that make them better at speed skating or archery. --Kjoonlee 09:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Beacause they are learned skills, however much you teach someone technique, there is a physical limit to how fast they can travel, that is where race comes in, there is no such limit on how good you can become at archery or skating (ignoring outside factors), so anyone can become good at them, if they work hard enough, for long enough. Those are also the reasons I did not include them as examples. I beg to differ on you point of peoples access to facilities, if that were true, from developed countries, you would expect a roughly equal mix of blacks and whites, as there is in the populations, but that is not true swimmers are with exception always white. And I don't think anyone 'takes up' sprinting, they find at an age of about 14, that they are exceptional, and they work on this talent, which is derived from natural ability, something which is heavily affected by race. Philc TECI 00:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
/me shrugs. I think differing genetic diversity within ethnological groups would be another contributing factor as well. Concerning access, you know that even in developed countries the wealth is not distributed evenly between black and white populations. --Kjoonlee 06:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Philc, you seem to be talking about innate differences in races. Not everyone subscribes to such a theory, and some people subscribe to such a theory but believe the differences are more minute than "race" (West Africans and East Africans, for example, have very different body structures). The granularity of "race" is too large to draw any conclusions like that. --ColourBurst 23:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
My understanding is that some Ethiopians and Kenyans are superlative distance runners because of the high altitude at which they have lived all their lives. I don't know whether Peru and Tibet do well at international distance running competitions as well.-gadfium 02:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Then surely you would have equally strong competitors from every major mountain range, andes, himlayas, rockys, alps? Philc TECI 10:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, East Africans come from a rather hot area and are long-limbed, while Andeans and Tibetans come from cold regions and have quite short limbs, rather unsuited to marathons. There's also a pretty strong cultural thing about long-distance running in East Africa.--Pharos 11:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Mayor Westfall, what you are talking about is race as a social construct, that is, race as a proxy for ethnicity or something like that. Just because one believes that race is a social construct does not make it a powerful force despite that. Being poor is a "social construct" (it is not related to one's biology), but of course being poor will have huge effects on the life of a person or group of people.
And Phil, saying "blacks are better at running" is, while not racist, not especially precise wording on the issue and could easily imply a belief in typological notions of race. More precise would be something like, "A statistically significant number of people identified as being members of a 'black' race [in the United States] perform better than similar counterparts amongst people identified as not being 'black'" or something like that. In the end, "racial" traits are one the one hand statistical (it is not that all blacks are better runners) and on the other hand tied to social categories ("black" is not a biologically or geographically specific term, and is a complicated mix of biological, ethnic, and geographical elements). Which is to say, each of these terms must have very specific means for it to be a correct statement, and race is more complicated than being just about biology. (As to whether "race" exists or not, IMO it depends on how you define it. Some definitions of "race" seem to be scientifically valid, while others are not.) --Fastfission 20:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
In addition, notions of what "race" is changed throughout history. Specifically the definition of "white" changed because for most of history it was Europeans who cared about the specific "race" modifier, and therefore care about who is "white" and therefore a part of "them" or "not white" or not a part of "them". Other people tended to group based on country or smaller social dividers. For example, in the U.S., Irish, Italians, and Jews were not considered "white", while they are now (except to perhaps some extremists). --ColourBurst 06:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
As far as I am concerned there is a huge difference between being non-pc and rascist, calling black people black, is non-pc but not rascist. It would be rascist to imply that it was a bad thing to be black though. Philc TECI 10:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Certain people use political correctness as an excuse to run off their mouth and not wanting to suffer any criticism headed their way. Anyways, there's more to racism than just racial prejudice (your example of implying badness in being black). There's also discrimination. --ColourBurst 23:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

is NY33Q part of the call numbers on one of the 9/11 planes' tails?[edit]

Does "NY33Q" have anything to do with insignia on any of the 9/11 planes? Look at what happens when you change it to wingdings font. Of course, it only means something if the letters actually figured somehow... " NY33Q" returns nothing... :( 16:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

snopes has an article on this. It's BSMayor Westfall 16:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. See Q33 NY.--Pharos 16:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
thanks! That cleared it up in a jiffy!  :) btw, do planes even have special serial numbers or designations (other than flight numbers, which change from flight to flight / get recycled, right, unless they're retired because of some famous event????) <--- is this right, since my original source didn't call it the flight number but some 'tail' designation or whatever. ("serial number"?, heh) 16:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC).
Aircraft sure do have tail numbers. A quick googling reveals some countries never recycle tail numbers but I don't know if that's global. Weregerbil 18:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Note, though, that according to the FAA's rules "NY33Q" would not be a legal tail number, since the first character after the N has to be a number. —Zero Gravitas 19:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

so what were the tail numbers of all the planes involved? incidentally,

American Airlines Flight 11 says "American Airlines Flight 11 was an American Airlines flight aboard a Boeing 767-223ER aircraft, registration number N334AA."

United Airlines Flight 175 says " The airplane on the flight, a Boeing 767-222 with registration number N612UA, was hijacked and crashed in New York City during the September 11, 2001 attacks."

American Airlines Flight 77 says "On September 11, 2001, while being piloted by Charles Burlingame, the Boeing 757-223, N644AA, was hijacked as part of the September 11, 2001 attacks."

United Airlines Flight 93 says "United Airlines Flight 93 was a Boeing 757-222 flight that regularly flew from Newark International Airport (now known as Newark Liberty International Airport) in Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco International Airport continuing on to Narita International Airport in Tokyo, Japan, on a different aircraft."

So, the fourth one does not mention registration number like the first three, however, it is on the side-bar to the right: "Tail number N591UA". (This side-bar does not conform to the format of the previous three articles I linked).

So we have the terms "tail number" only in this one and "registration number" only in the first two and the third flight I linked mentioned the lettors without saying whether they are tail numbers or registration numbers. Are these terms synonymous? The format of the fourth flight should parallel the format of the first three.

Tail numbers are just the aircraft registration number printed on the tail of the aircraft. Other places you might find it are under the wing or along the side. Each country has it's own registration, see International Civil Aviation Organization and scroll down for the aircraft registration list. Also for information and the ability to check a US aircraft registration see FAA. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


I've prepared a special image report on my findings:


However, I don't have an account. Could someone upload it and inline it to the end of the above post? (Inlining external images is no longer allowed on Wikipedia.).

You can't, as far as I'm aware, insert images from other sites into Wikipedia, perhaps to prevent copyright infringement. I'm not sure, whilst the subject of an amusing chain-email a few years ago, the image would prove too useful on Wikipedia either...EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 22:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Thats not shocking at all, so what if the N in windings in a skull and cross bones, the 5 is a chest of drawers, and the 1 is a folder and A is a hand, what is the significance of these? nothing! Philc TECI 00:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I see you did not notice the "super conspiracy" part. Anyway would you PLEASE upload it to wikipedia so I can inline the image on some talk pages? Thank you so much.
I saw the super conspiracy part and I don't see the relevence. It's just a bunch of Wingdings characters, several of which have no significance at all in this situation. --Optichan 16:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I did see it actually, your reply implies you believe the fact you scribbled super conspiracy over it, makes it a conspiracy. Philc TECI 00:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Searching for Alan Keyes[edit]

Hi all - I am trying to find an email address for Alan Keyes that is NOT associated with the Renew America Web site. Thank you so much for allowing to post this search with you good folks. Kathy

Try a search such as this, and add any other terms you want to exclude as -term. Might get you there. --Tagishsimon (talk) For privacy purpose he probablly does not release his personal email adress.

hjelp low vision user to find how to create a new article[edit]

I have low vision, ARMD and it is difficult for me to read through a lot of stuff even though I have a ttext to speechengine but long descriptions just fly by. I have succesfully registered, Claude A.R. KIagan I have successfully edited SAM76 article I have successfully edited MY TALK in my page.

I cant find after about a real full day of trying, how to just open a new page to edit in it an artricle with a new name.

I had an aborted experience with CREATE your FIRST, I got as far as the NAME, GLOBOTYPE and hit a wrong key and it vanished.

I did create GLOBOTYPE article in my talk and I want to actually have a new article named GLOBOTYPE so I can either copy from my talk or from by master file in my machine.

My ARMD, macular degeneration is compounded with a rare affliction of the Charles Bonney Syndrome, I have visions at the worde possible time link on the computer screen when I am editing, maps, castles and other visions overwrite the screen and I have to separate the vision from the edit.

I h ope this question is not too long. I tried to change skin to simple but that was a disaster. There was confilict in the left side between the left column and the body due to a long user name.

Best wishes to your gang.

Claude a. r. kagan <-- email removed to contact, see User:Claude A. R. Kagan -->

Pardon typos, I cannot read this microscopic type in this small window. I can listen to it but that is difficult to listen and edit while the speech keeps on talking.

I'm invoking the spirit of this new article. Globotype, AYT (are you there) ? I'm now building a special circle made of double square brackets around thy name, Globotype. Now anyone can play with you just by clicking it with his magic wand (or mouse pointer). Good luck. --DLL 18:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Other ways to create the article:
  1. If it exists in your user space, use the "move" link at the top of the page to move the article to its correct name
  2. Search for the exact name of the article you want to create, and you'll get a page saying "This article does not exist, click here to create it" or the like. — Lomn | Talk 19:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Just so you know, if you need the letters bigger to help see, hold ctrl and roll the wheel on the mouse back (in windows). Philc TECI 23:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
On a Mac, most browsers will have a View menu with the option of increasing text size. You might also try holding down the and + keys to make the text larger. In the Mac OS there is also a system preference called "Universal Access" that is designed to help people with low vision or hearing. —WAvegetarian(talk) 17:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

George & Robert Alexander Construction[edit]


My name is John Albert Mc Bee and I manage an apartment complex located at 7200 Hollywood Boulevard in Los Angeles. In an attempt to obtain the original blueprints to speed up process for plumbing and electrical repairs for this building, it was discovered that the original owner and contractor was a George Alexander Co. (As it appears on the permit to erect new building) The only information that I can seem to locate for this man was a large project that he and his son worked on in Palm Springs. Their files will not help me here in Hollywood. Can you help me with any leads for locating his/their work in Los Angeles so that I may obtain files for this particular structure? Several sites mention that they achieved their success from previous work performed in Los Angeles...but no info on what or where.

I appreciate any assistance you will offer.

Sincerely, John Mc Bee

You have not mentioned the year of construction, that might help somebody to find it. If the building is quite old, you have little chance of finding the original blueprints, since that stuff does not store well, and the company is most likely defunct. --Zeizmic 17:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
That's the Alexander Construction Company. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 17:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Fortune 1000 company rankings[edit]


I'd like to see if I can get Fortune 1000 rankings of companies back to 1994

My email is (email removed) My phone# is (removed)

Thank you,

Terry Eichelberger

It would be wise not to include your phone number and much more your email. --Proficient 21:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Archeology help for book[edit]

I'm writing a book and looking for a more specific setting that will hopefully fit some of the more general characteristics that I've laid out. Therefore, if anyone knows of an archeology dig site or a good location to put a fictional one that fits this description, please let me know:

Desert Site in the middle East (possibly the Negev? Sinai desert?) Neolithic to early bronze age settlement In a place where Westerners would be allowed to come and set up a dig.

Possibly previously worked site?

Thanks for any help that you can offer me. ~BJP

We have a Category:Archaeological sites in Israel that may be of use. Adam Bishop 22:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you should have the work site be at the Anatolian highlands in present day turkey. This mountainous region is where the metals associated with the broonze age where first mined and where the broonze age began.

Jericho is probably the most famous "neolithic through bronze age" dig site in the world. alteripse 02:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


Can you have sex at the age of 13, 14, 15 and 16 years old?

You can, but it's probably not legal. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 20:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It might well be legal. It all depends on where you live. --Richardrj 20:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
And the age of the other person engaging in the sex.--Anchoress 21:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Most likely legal for you to do so, but an adult having it with you will be in legal doodoo. --Nelson Ricardo 21:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably. --Proficient 21:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

If you can masterbate you can have sex. Legality has been answered. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 02:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It's not true that if you can masturbate you can have sex. Some kids start masturbating at 1 or 2 years of age, that's too young to have sex, the genitalia isn't sufficiently mature.--Anchoress 03:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Are we sure this isn't a troll question? I mean...what kind of question is that? --mboverload@ 07:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Technically, masturbation is sex with just one person. - Mgm|(talk) 08:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding whether a 13, 14, 15 or 16 year old it depends. Often 13 and 14 year olds espessally boy would not be physically mature enough have sex. The vast majority of 15 year olds probablly woulsd be. Of course no one at this age should be having sex! It depends,

Yeah, like 'technically' abstinance is sex with the null set.

This question was asked a few months ago and the conclusion was that most kids break the law all the time. Don't tell them or they'll get the notion that breaking the law is fun. DirkvdM 07:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

"Often 13 and 14 year olds espessally boy would not be physically mature enough have sex." Lies. Vitriol 04:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Final answer. As long as the boy is physically mature enough for penetrative sex, the age difference between them is not great, and it is consensual it is perfectly legal. However, I have heard of cases where a 15 year old has sex with 10 year old or something....I'm not sure how that turned out. --mboverload@ 05:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Usually. From what I can get out of the article on puberty, almost all boys are physically capably by age 13, and half by 11. Girls, even earlier. It does depend on race. And it's not legal in the US, unless you are 14 and live in Hawaii or 13, homosexual, and live in New Mexico.


Is there an age restriction for this?--Triviaman 22:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, but you should contact the organizers about it. Ideally if someone were a minor I imagine it would be best if we had some proof that their parents had authorized it (just in order to avoid any liability issues if a 12 year old goes to Wikimania in order to hook up with an internet stalker) but I don't know if that is an official requirement. --Fastfission 01:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I would also advise that you do this well in advance, and get documentation you can show to security if necessary (I'm not sure how tight security is at Wikimania). I would also make arrangements to have a person of influence in Wikipedia who can argue your case with security if necessary. I remember going to a conference where I was supposed to present something when I was 11 or so, only to have to have the people who invited me come out and argue with the guards to let me in. Having that happen is not fun, but it is better than not being let in at all. --Philosophus T 09:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
There is no age limit. I started when I was 12 or 13, if there is a limit, it is 13 if you live in the United States. Then again, Wikipedia also has the ultimate unreachable goal of catalogueing all human knowledge. There are some things on here you may not want to read, and there are images concerning your sexual pieces that some people believe shouldn't be seen if you are too young. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 02:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The questioner was asking about attendance at the Wikimania conference, not reading the website. --Richardrj 09:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


When is midsummer's night?

Tonight Philc TECI 23:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to the English language: Midsummer is the first day of summer, midwinter is the first day of winter. Emmett5 03:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily. In some English-speaking countries (eg. Australia) the seasons officially start on the 1st of March, June, September and December. JackofOz 03:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
That may be true, Jack, but then again, there are some things that the state cannot simply legislate, and then "poof" they become true. According to the Australian government, Winter may begin June 1st, but I'm sure if you'd ask any self-respecting Australian scientist s/he'd tell you that Winter actually starts at the Winter solstice (June 21/22? I believe it varies). Loomis 12:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Off topic a bit, but why is it Midsummer, if it takes place at the start of summer? smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 15:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Not positive, but I'd assume that it's probably because Midsummer is the Summer Equinox, which is the longest day of the year. It's the day between when the days are getting longer, and when they start getting shorter again. So in that way, it is indeed a "mid". So while an optimist might say "Yeay, it's June 21st! It's now officially summer!", a pessimist will respond "Yeah, but now the days are just getting shorter, we've already passed the peak and it's all downhill from here." ;-)
I REALLY REALLY hate to be a pedant, so I'll just assume that when you refered to the Summer "Equinox", you were actually refering to the Summer "Solstice", as there's no such thing as a Summer "Equinox". Easy slip of the tongue (or fingers) I suppose. Loomis 22:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, if we're going to be pedants, I'll just point out that Philc 0780's original answer was only true for half the planet. Here, it was midwinter's night. Grutness...wha? 05:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe I specifically refered to the fact that from Jack's point of view, June 21/22 would be the winter solstice. Yes, I'm fully aware that everything's upside-down for you guys! (The one question I have, though, is why you apparently don't turn your globes upside-down. Doesn't it hurt your necks when you crane them to locate your country?) Loomis 02:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Ah hadn't noticed that (the winter note) sorry. As to globes, we do have some "upside-down maps", though they're usually made for their whimsical value rather than for any real "southist" reason. Grutness...wha? 02:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Really? I wouldn't stand for that sort of borealocentrism! Those northern chauvinist pigs! Everyone knows there's no up or down in space! As an act of solidarity with my southern friends, I intend to turn my globe upside-down and tell all the little children I know that Santa in fact lives way UP in the SOUTH pole, and that we Canadians actually live "down-under"! Loomis 21:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Where are US brand cars and trucks manufactured?[edit]

My 2003 Dodge Dakota was made entirely in Brazil and final assembly was in the US. Seems we are not entitled to know where anything is "manufactured" as long as final assembly is done in the US and the Company can legally lable it "Made in USA". Can you include "actual manufacture" and location in all the great automotive info you now have? Thanks, Deano

In a globalised world, I would say that even if that information could be adequately verified, it would be too fast-changing to be included. Today the parts come from Brazil, tomorrow half the tiny screws could be coming from Ghana and the day after that the axles would be from Malaysia. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Sam. I read this in a mag while waiting to see my Dr. The cover was missing but I think it was an automotive type of consumer's digest. Guess I just dislike the "made-in-usa" rules of FTC, created to enhance out-sourcing.

New cars in the U.S. have a label showing the percentage of the car supplied by each country for just this reason. Rmhermen 03:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Little Problem[edit]

Dmitry Salita and Dmitriy Salita are two articles with the same name, however, Dmitriy Salita is the incorrect spelling, I am not sure how to redirect Dmitriy Salita to Dmitry Salita so could someone please do it for me?--GorillazFan Adam 23:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I was going to change to a redirect, but there is some information in Dmitriy Salita that is not present in Dmitry Salita, so the articles need to be merged. I'll have a look at this when I have time, unless someone else wants to do it. --Canley 00:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Done, I hope. I kept all the information from both in there. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 04:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

June 22[edit]


Hi, I was wondering this: could a human body hold an electric charge, and if a human could use that charge in any manner; furthermore, if that charge could be measured in Volts, and by what, if any, means could such a thing happen.--Captain ginyu 00:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, anything can hold a charge. It's usually called "static electricity". You can't really "use" it for anything, except touching other people to give them a little shock. Charge is not measured in volts, it's measured in coulombs. —Keenan Pepper 00:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Unlike the The Matrix! --Ephilei 01:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
...With a proviso that for an object of known capacitance, one could indirectly specify the charge in volts. (The charge in coulombs is equal to the potential in volts multiplied by the capacitance in farads.) Shuffling across a carpet on a dry winter day, it's possible to build up a potential of several thousand (even tens of thousands) of volts above ground. Fortunately, your capacitance is pathetically tiny (on the order of a hundred picofarads) so the total charge you can accumulate from a carpet is only enough to give you a nasty tingle and not cause lasting harm. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, but NO, that is not what I had in mind. I was thinking of a charge that you would obtain, e.g. if you survive a lightning strike or something like that. You can not shock people with static electricity when you want, I was thinking of a charge you could control(for example, like shock with static electricity but at will). Does anyone know what I am talking about.--Captain ginyu 01:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Electric charge is electric charge. It doesn't give you superhero powers. When a person is struck by lightning, the charge passes through the body, but it doesn't remain there afterwards. Read what TenOfAllTrades said, he's smart. —Keenan Pepper 02:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Ha! I'm a scientific dilettante. My undergrad was in physics and chemistry, grad work in biophysics, biochem, and cell biology. I'm a compulsive dabbler with a short attention span. All my knowledge is 'thintelligence'—I can expound on any topic for about five minutes, then I run out of steam and have to refer to a Wikipedia article. :D TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Anyone wouldn't be having the Mutant-X gene lying around, would ya? ;-) Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 09:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I was not exactly thinking of superhero powers, I am not stupid. Also, an edit conflict ocurred when i was writing my response to Keenan Pepper, so I have not seen other answers then. And, When a person is struck by lightning, the charge passes through the body, but it doesn't remain there afterwards, that is pretty much what I had in mind(if a person could keep the charge in his body, and manifest it somehow). Thanks to TenOfAllTrades, though.--Captain ginyu 13:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Since you've got a low capacitance, storing a big charge is associated with being at a high potential. Unfortunately, being at a high potential makes it very easy for charge to bleed (figuratively) out of you. Charges can be disposed of directly into the air; damp air is particularly good at this. (Neutral molecules from the air strike your body, pick up or drop off an electron, and then are repelled by your remaining charge.) At high potential you can also get corona discharge, or even an outright spark which will drain just about all of your charge. (At a potential of a million volts above ground, you can throw a spark half a meter or more in length.) If you could increase your capacitance somehow, you could store more charge without the associated high potential. I can't think of a 'natural' process to do this, but there are mechanical ways. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Standard Science Centre Demonstration: Person (preferably one with long, dry, fly-away hair) stands on insulated platform by the Van de Graaff generator. Hand on generator, zoomdezoom, hair stands on end. Hand off generator, hair still up. At this point they are holding a good charge, and can become a superhero. Demonstator zaps them with a neutral, and hair comes down. They are no longer 'Electro-hair', and are 'discharged' from the guild. --Zeizmic 14:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Not only can a human body hold a charge, you've almost certainly done it, or seen it done. It's a pretty popular high school science experiment (or it was in my day) to get someone to stand on an insulating object and charge them up with a Van de Graff generator. Mainly you notice their hair stands on end. DJ Clayworth 16:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Now, I have two questions: 1. When you are charged with Van de Graff generator, for how long can you keep that charge, and can you manifest it somehow(like give people a shock like with static electricity or something like that), and 2. for TenOfAllTrades, what mechanical means of increasing capacitance were you thinking of. Please, those answers are very important to me.--Captain ginyu 20:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It depends a lot on the weather. On a dry winter day, you can hold a charge for a long while, maybe even several hours long as you don't touch anything. You have to be wearing rubber-soled shoes so the charge doesn't leak into the ground. And as soon as you touch someone, at least some of the charge will flow into them (all of it if they're grounded) and give them a shock. —Keenan Pepper 02:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Well...the mechanical means are what you'd expect—you'd have to conceal capacitors, wired correctly, on or about your person. It would be relatively simple to design and build a Capacitor Man superhero suit, as long as you weren't intimately wedded to skintight spandex. (There's no magic bullet here.) I'll note in reply to Keenan Pepper's remark that you'll hold a kilovoltage charge for a fair while in dry air, but a megavoltage charge (such that you might get from a Van de Graff generator) will tend to very quickly bleed down even in dry air. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Static charges granting superhuman powers? that reminds me... Tyrhinis 20:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I once heard of a girl who had so much electricity in her body she could make the TV change channel without touching it and make power sockets explode... I think her name was Jacqueline Priestman or something, but that isn't it because her name didn't come up with any good results. Vitriol 04:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
How do you know when your body has reached the limit of capacitance when you are charged with Van de Graff generator.--Captain ginyu 21:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
No matter. This question is climbing, and I got pretty much all the answers I wanted. Thanks a lot to everyone, especially Keenan Pepper, and of course TenOfAllTrades.--Captain ginyu 21:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

On an episode of the Captain Midnight TV show, circa 1954, a man got an electric charge from the electric chair or an experiment, and was wise enough to insulate his feet with rubber boots, so he could walk around and kill people by touching them. Maybe that is what you had in mind. A similar "superpower' ensues if you stand on an insulating stool and get charged up by a Van de Graaf generator (but without the lethality). In the 1600's, scientists did a demo called the "electric boy" where a boy was suspended by silk cords and charged up with a static friction machine. Similar effects when he touched someone.Edison 23:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.--Captain ginyu 18:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Prince Phillip[edit]

What exactly is the "real-life" original nationality of Prince Phillip? The article speaks of dozens of titles that range from one end of Europe to the other, and a very geographically vague upbringing as well. I know that he was once a Prince of Greece, but then again, European royalty can be somewhat misleading, as the current royal family is actually German, rather than British in origin. Nonetheless Queen Elizabeth II, despite her ancestry, is clearly a Brit. In plain and simple terms, if Prince Phillip were an ordinary citizen, based on common sense, how would his nationality be described? Is he basically also a Brit with a bunch of confusing pan-European titles or is he indeed Greek? Or something else? Loomis 02:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The article on Prince Philip says: "Originally a Greek subject [...] he renounced these titles and his allegiance to marry the Princess Elizabeth." So he had Greek nationality, but no longer. I assume he has now British nationality. Presumably, some law was passed to properly regulate everything. Have you by any chance been enbribd? --LambiamTalk 03:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

From the first section of the article: Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark was born on June 10, 1921 atop a kitchen table at Villa Mon Repos on Corfu, a Greek island in the Ionian sea. He was born a greek to the son of the king of greece, which makes him pretty solidly greek. Since he fled to france, he became a greek expat. If you're talking personalitywise, though, you'd have to ask someone who knows him personally. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 07:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

He is danish, his family is a branch of the danish royal fsmily. When greece became independent they choose the brother of the danish king to become their king (I believe philps grandfather or great grand father). They chose a foriegn royal because they though he would be more objective, he would have no stake in any local disagreement. They also thought giving the crown to an established prince would give their monarchy more prestige . The ethic Danish rulers did not marry Greeks but instead married other northern european royals. Accept for his birth, in Greece and his membership to the greek royal family philip cannot be called an ethnic Greek. He has not a drope of Greek blood. In addition from childhood on he spent his entire life outside of greece. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 20:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

And apparently the family spoke English among themselves. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to you all for all your utterly contradictory replies :) I'm still rather confused about Prince Phillip's real nationality (ignoring all the irrelevant legalities). Is English his first language? Is he fluent in Greek? So far, from what I understand, he's a Danish-Greek who happens to be a Prince of England, making his son, Charles, a Danish-Greek-German-Englishman who happens to be the Prince of Wales and is the heir apparent to become king of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. This is all giving me a bit of a headache! I realize it's a tough question to answer and I hope you all understand that I'm teasing when I say your responses are utterly contradictory. I really appreciate all of your (unsuccessful) attempts to clarify the whole thing. Any more confusing info would be well appreciated! All the best. Loomis 02:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Remember that his mother, Princess Victoria Alice Elizabeth Julia Marie of Battenberg, although technically a German princess, was born and raised in London, and her father was the first Marquess of Milford Haven. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Name Issue[edit]

What would be some good names to call your girlfriend (examples, sweety, honey, babe etc...—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

You really need to ask her, they all have their own tastes. I prefer "darling". --mboverload@ 07:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't seem to have a list, yet. But there is a list here that you could look through for ideas. However, I think a unique name is usually more appealing. Maybe something that just starts out as a joke, and then becomes your own private name. Also be aware that while some girls will just love being called things like "squidgy bum" or "piglet", others might be offended or turned right off by it.--Shantavira 07:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the link those names look appealing. I'll take a look.--biggie 08:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC) Probally by an informal version of her name or nickame. For example her name is victoria call her vicky. Or her name is mildred, but informally the name ella, you shoul call her by that. Many pet names sound exaggerate (Juliet to my Romeo), or might offend ( such names which imply anatomy), or imply the existance of a relation which has yet to develop(such as phyical intamcy). Such migh make you girl friend uncomfortable or even alienate her. Some names such as sweetheart are good pet names and would not likely be found as offensive.

affidavit of adverse claim on land title.[edit]

Is an adverse claim annotated in the year 1975 still in effect now?

can we request the register of deed to cancell the adverse calim?

Somehow I sense that this is a legal question. Stay away from this place! Read the stuff at the beginning, and you will never ask a legal question again! --Zeizmic 11:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh relax Zeizmic! :) True, this isn't the place to get "official" legal opinions or advice, but asking for some casual legal info is perfectly fine to me.

Unfortunately, the questioner, like so many, just doesn't seem to understand that different places have different laws.

Without knowing what jurisdiction you're talking about, I'm afraid the question is no different than asking: "What's the best restaurant in town?", without it occurring to you that the internet, being international, has know clue what town the hell you're talking about. Loomis 01:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

World Cup[edit]

It is obviously possible with the 2006 draw for the 2006 FIFA World Cup final to be between two teams who had already played in the Group phase. Has this ever happened in previous World cups - and if so did the same team win both times? -- SGBailey 11:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

in the 1962 World Cup Czechoslovakia and Brazil were in the same group, they drew in the groups stages 0-0 Brazil won 3-1 in the final. and in 1954 World Cup Germany and Hungary were in the group stages together, hungary won 8-3 in the group stages, as Germany rested their first team, believing the match would simply tire their players, as hungary were considered the best team in the world at the time. Germany won 3-2 in the final. Philc TECI 12:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Brazil played Sweden twice on the way to the 1994 title, 1-1 in the first round and 1-0 in the semifinal Tintin (talk) 13:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
A couple more:
  • Italy and Poland played in the first group stage and semi-finals of the 1982 World Cup; the matches finished 0-0 and 2-0 to Italy.
  • Brazil and Turkey played in the group stage and semi-finals of the 2002 World Cup; Brazil won both matches (2-1 and 1-0). Qwghlm 14:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


can a 16 years old boy can have sex with a 15 or 14 years old?

"Can"? Usually. "May?" Different issue. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆
It depends on the country whether doing so would be a crime. In most English speaking countries though, it would be considered along the lines of Statutory rape. See also age of consent. Road Wizard 15:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe that this is made considerably more complex, at least in the US, by the age similarity, especially in the 16-15 case. --Philosophus T 21:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
If you're in the U.S. you may also want to check out I am not a lawyer -- Dismas|(talk) 18:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Generally speaking a 16 may not have sex with a 14 or 15 year old. In the US age of consent is 16 or older. Though some common law countries have created a close in age exception which may legalize such relationship however such does not exist in the U.S. 14 and 15 bellow the age of consent. If 16 has sex with them they will go to jail. In some states their is two level of age consent one where the relation is illegal but relation is not considered as bad as forcable rape, but bellow age the relationship is considered the same as forcable rape, usually in such states the cutoff age is 15, under that and possibly at that what your doing would rape. These laws are reasonable. A 14 year olds should not be in sexual relationships. Reasons 1. Because of their in experiense they would be more likely become pregnant or get a disease. Such because at this age they would not be old enough to understand sexuallity and contracetion. 2. Teenagers, espessally young teenagers often feel imortal it can't happen to them. Because of this disablity their consent to sexual activity has less meaning because it is not informed. This sense imortaltaity often would make the person less carefull. 3. Teenagers espessally teenage girls often mistake sexual advances as love. Emotions often cloud judgement and make consent. Often grown will pretend they love the girl, or try make their supposed love contingent on sex. 4. The possibility of pregnancy. 14 and 15 year olds often cannot take care of themselves, they certainly would not be able to take of infant. This lack of ability to take of a child will hurt the childs well being. The father usually will not involved in childs care. Since most fathers are kids themselves, or adult men who prey on teeage girls. Because of the inability of the mothers inability to provide for the child finacial, physcological they often becomes burdens of the state. Because of the loss educational oppurtunities often will become a perminate member of the struggling class. The child because the poor role model of a teenage mother an lack material upbringing often will have the same fate. 5. Physical: A 14 yearold may not be physcially mature, therefore the sexual act in itself could injure her. 6. It also could cause phycological problems. Teenagers who become sexualized early often are conditioned towards living sexually unhealthy unfilling lives. For example they might be promiscious because associate sexual experiences with love and engage in such behavior to get that feeling of love. They might also be more appt to accept a abusive relationship, or relation where their being used often when teenagers espessally teenage girls have sex it it is with a man (often an older man) who is useing and abusing them. By being sexually socialized in such a maner they would alow them to have healthy relationships in the future.

Stereotypical typeface[edit]

What is the typeface used on just about every stereotype Irish, Scotish, Welsh and Manx object in existance? It looks very distinctive, quite curly, and generally very "Celtic". smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 15:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you find an example somewhere for us to look at? Random guess: the Omnia family. Online font catalogues list other families with a similar Ye Olde English feel. Weregerbil 17:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
If you mean like seen here:[9], it is (an imitation of) the half-uncial script, which was used, for example, in the Book of Kells. --LambiamTalk 23:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
FYI, there's some relevant info at Irish orthography as well. --Kjoonlee 06:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Australia belongs to Asia or Oceania?[edit]

From my general knowledge, Australia is a Oceanian country. However, Australia is now a member of Asian Football Confederation, but not Oceania Football Confederation.

I am asking if Australia belongs to both Asia and Oceania, if not, why Australia could join the Asian Football Confederation.

Dont double post, you posted this on the Humanities desk. Philc TECI 16:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is in oceania. see the bottom of Australia. Reywas92 02:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

That's by the "five-continent" scheme taught in Europe. By the "seven-continent" scheme used in the States, the continent on which Australia is located is called Australia (and does not include Indonesia et al; I'm not certain whether Indonesia is considered part of Asia, or simply not part of any continent, like Hawaii). --Trovatore 02:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
In Australia we generally consider ourselves to be part of "Australasia" which always includes New Zealand and usually Papau New Guinea as well, but never Indonesia. Indonesia is always considered part of Asia by Australians. Battle Ape 18:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Top teacher in Ju jitsu school[edit]

What is the formal name for the top man in a Ju jitsu school?--Light current 17:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it Sensei in every japanese martial art. Philc TECI 18:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought it may be that, but I wasnt sure!--Light current 22:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The title depends on the skill of the senior teacher at the school. The one you are thinking of could be Renshi, Kyoshi or Hanshi. See Japanese titles. Road Wizard 19:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Correction. Though it is somewhat controversial, many western schools have bestowed the title Soke on their headmasters in recent decades. Road Wizard 19:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

THank you all for the info!--Light current 22:30, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The title of sensai is an informal generic title for person who is considered learned in a discipline. For example Medical Doctors and unviversity proffessor could appropriatly be adressed as Sensai. When used it is often used in place an academic or proffessional title. For example instead of being styled prof. Lee he could be styled as Sensai Lee. Their is no direct english translation for this title. The head of traditional martial would considered learned and thus could be appropriatly adressed with this title. However their is noting about this title in it self which suggest martial instructorship. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 23:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC).

A little note I forgot to mention earlier, make sure to say Sensei (Sen-say) rather than Sensai (Sen-sigh) as Sensei means teacher (or doctor, etc.), but Sensai means incompetent. Not the best pronunciation to begin a conversation with. :) Road Wizard 00:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah thanks for that one! I wouldnt want to offend the Grand Master (Sensei) or he might throw me to the other end of the dojo!--Light current 01:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Do edits made to Wikipedia affect its sister site,[edit]

I updated some outdated content on a diabetes-related content page in Wikipedia. That same content appears to be shared in the Web site, which seems to be a sister site of Wikipedia.

My question is this ... will the edits I've made in Wikipedia be reflected in the Web site? If so, how long before those changes are reflected? If not, how do you edit the site?

  • seeing as how isn't a 'sister site' in such much as it's a content mirroring advertising server, I'd say yes, they even mirror user pages, and quite a few deleted pages as well-- 18:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
There are hundreds of sites which mirror wikipedia content - most listed from Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. Changes made in Wikipedia will eventually turn up on these sites, which either periodically download a data dump of wikipedia, or grab and reframe a wikipedia page each time a user requests a page from them, known as Remote loading. And for the most part, wikipedia is very cool with this - it is well within the permissions given in the GFDL licence under which wikipedia is released. Clearly sites will vary in terms of their lag behind wikipedia - notably, changes to the wikipedia database structure, changes to the format of data dumps, or wikipedia's failure to make dumps available regularly will be causes of delay, as will be apathy on the part of the mirror site owner. --Tagishsimon (talk)
Wikipedia is very much not cool with remote loading, which is essentially stealing bandwidth from our servers. Sites have been blocked to prevent this.–RHolton– 01:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Someone did a survey of content, and it seems that their database is updated from wikipedia once every few months--it was about three months behind at the time they checked. You can see for yourself by checking the version of an article on against the history of the article on wikipedia.Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 22:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Go to, search for "2006" and note that April is the last "News by month" link. Link to April, 2006, and note that there's data for 30 April, 2006. Seems to be pretty strong evidence that the database was dumped sometime on 30 April, 2006. –RHolton– 04:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


Are Krill fish or plants? If fish, do they have scales and fins. It is important to me to know whether they are plants or fish, and if fish whether they have both scales and fins. Thank you.

Perhaps you would like to read our article on Krill. --LarryMac 19:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
...but the short answer is no, they are neither fish nor plants.--Shantavira 07:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Definitely closer to fish though. Vitriol 04:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Closer to shrimp or plankton than fish, I'd guess. Not kosher, if that's what the thread starter meant. --Kjoonlee 06:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

money earning programes[edit]

sir its a gr8 help n immmense plessurre using wikipedia

sir my question is can i can earn money online without nay investment? note-i dnt know any computer languages

You might try selling your unwanted possessions through EBay.--Tachikoma 20:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is also possible to create a website without knowing internent langauge. In terms it is possible have an internet bussiness largely free of over head. Beacuse one needs no store cost can be kept down. My parents own a small internet company which sells medical software they have virtually no over head. They have no fixed costs, because it is simply website operated out of the family home. Nor is their merchandice cost because they do not hold merchandice, instead they act as sales agents for the various publishers.

Any cases prosecuting individual sellers for selling counterfeit brand-named shoes?[edit]

Are there any (or, does anyone knows that) lawsuit prosecuting the individual sellers for their selling counterfeit brand-named shoes (e.g. PRADA, Gucci, BAPE) on the ebay? Or, the shoe companies just prosecute the ebay company as supplying a platform for people to sell fake/counterfeit PRADA, Gucci shoes through ebay?

Are there any laws set up in the USA, Uk and other European countries against the counterfeit Gucci/PRADA shoes on ebay? Or, those genuine companies are just not aware of this yet?

But, will it be reasonable and right to ban for selling the fake shoes on Ebay, as a online e-commerce platform? Would it be practically possible to supervise the listings on ebay, and suppose one really get genuine brand-name shoes, and want to re-sell it on Ebay, what type of proves do they need to put on the listings on ebay?

In addition, do most people prefer to be able to get cheap brand-name shoes (no matter whether it is genuine or fake) from ebay? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Korenzhang2244 (talkcontribs) 20:05, 22 June 2006.

You have asked this question on Talk:EBay as well as several other pages. Please do not post questions in multiple locations without mentioning it in each location, otherwise you are just wasting other editors' time. Thank you. Road Wizard 21:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Are the laws against counterfiting yes
It is generally illegal to sell counterfit brand names. Though a person who just selling the goods (and not manufacturing them) could only be held crimminally liable if they know or should know that the goods are counterfit. A platform like ebay, probably could not be expected to know the exact nature of goods sold. Ebay is large company with a large in house legal staff, they are aware of any law which could effect their bussiness.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 20:16, 22 June 2006.
Many of the questions you have raised are discussed in this recent internet article. Road Wizard 21:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Some people knowingly buy counterfeit goods cheaply if they are brand names. Some prefer it, some don't. --Proficient 21:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Take a penny, leave a penny[edit]

What exactly is a "Take a penny, Leave a penny" tray? It doesn't seem something we have here in the UK, and apparently nither does Wikipedia. So what exactly does it do, and what purpose does it have? Thanks a lot :) -Benbread 21:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

For people who don't like to have pennies jingling around in their pockets and find them useless, they can leave their pennies in a little tray near the cash register. These are usually found at convience stores and gas stations, less so at supermarkets. Then when someone has a bill of $10.26 and they just have a ten and a quarter, they can take a penny out of the tray to give to the cashier. Or sometimes the cashier will take one for the customer just so that they can give them 3 quarters back instead of having to count out two quarters, two dimes, and four pennies. Dismas|(talk) 22:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
We just have charity boxes for pennies you don't want. Philc TECI 22:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Nothing to do with spending a penny. JackofOz 23:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It means what it says. --Proficient 02:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

We now have an article on it... Take a penny, leave a penny. Dismas|(talk) 03:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

How can I change a page name when the "move" tab won't let me?[edit]

I am a new user. I think this is a great resource. I really need to change the name of a page I added but the "move" tab won't let me. Can you please give me detailed instructions on what I would have to do? Thanks very much for your time —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rightrx806 (talkcontribs)

Which page is it?. Please use --~~~~ at the end of your posts so we know who said it. --mboverload@ 23:43, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It's Chronology of Jesus' Last Days. List it on Wikipedia:Requested moves --Tagishsimon (talk)
The move function only works a few days after you register. You appear to be a new user, so it hasn't activated yet. Another reason is that the page may have been protected from vandalism meaning there will be restrictions on what you can do. Road Wizard 23:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It's often a good idea to discuss page moves on the discussion page for the page in question. You can do that, even if you don't yet have rights to perform the actual move. Usually, if the move has general approval, someone will implement it. –RHolton– 00:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Although this was a case of an article appended by the questioner ten minutes before asking the question; probably not much community interest in the article at that time hence not much point trying to solicit a discussion. --Tagishsimon (talk)
You can always use Wikipedia:Requested moves. --cesarb 18:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

June 23[edit]


How do you message specific users? Joneleth 00:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You can leave a message on their user talk page if you like. That link back there goes to yours, where you presently have two messages. Howard Train 00:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Or you can email them with the link in the "Toolbox", below the search bar. However, that only works if the user you want to contact has enabled people to send emails to them. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 20:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

New Mac commercials[edit]

Question about the new Mac commercials, with the "Mac" guy and the "PC" guy comparing various assets. First though, my beef... a Mac IS A PC, do those idiots even know what PC stands for? If they mean Windows-based they should say so. Anyway, the question... does anybody know who the guy is that plays the "Mac"? I know I recognize him from somewhere, but can't place him for the life of me. Any help would be appreciated, thanks! --Maelwys 00:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

But 'PC' is also an accepted abbreviation for a Windows-based as opposed to Mac computer, so it's perfectly OK for the ad to call them Mac and PC. --Richardrj 05:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The PC is John Hodgeman from the Daily Show; the Mac is Justin Long from Dodgeball, Herby Fully Loaded, The Break-Up, etc. —Wayward Talk 00:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

In the Touché commercial at [10], the Mac guy says "...and I'm a PC too..." So, there you go. They aren't idiots. schyler 01:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
But when he says that, he doesn't mean that they are both PCs in the sense of a PC being a generic term for any personal computer. He means that Macs can now emulate Windows PCs, because they now run on Intel chips. In fact, 'PC' should not be used as a generic term to describe any personal computer including Macs. It really is an abbreviation for IBM/Windows computer. --Richardrj 09:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with your last sentence. That is the arguably the most common usage, but then what do I call this box with an Intel processor running Ubuntu Linux? --LarryMac 14:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
It's a PC. Richard shouldn't have included Windows in the last part of his argument. PCs have been around long before Microsoft Windows. The reason a Windows PC or Larry's Ubuntu box is called a PC is because it is IBM-compatible. It is based off of the IBM PC. Therefore, I would call the Intel-based Macs PCs. Also, Intel-based Macs do not emulate Windows. They actually boot Windows. They can do that because the processor is an x86, which Windows is designed to run on . --Optichan 16:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Just call x86 computers with Windows installed "Wintels" or "Billboxes" for clarity and disambiguiety. JIP | Talk 10:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. "PC" is the name of an architecture that started with the first IBM PCs. Nowdays, the architecture of Macs are closer to that then they were, even to the point where you can run Windows on a Mac computer with some problems. This is probably so that they can put the same video cards, hard disks, USB devices etc to a Mac as in a PC. But originally they were quite different and they still differ somewhat nowdays. – b_jonas 18:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Ironically, our very own Personal Computer article indicates that "The term was popularized by Apple Computer with the Apple II [...] and afterwards by IBM with the IBM PC." Personally, I just say "computer." --LarryMac 20:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Before IBM introduced their PC, we were calling PCs PCs. It did not refer to an architecture; it was just an abbrev for Personal Computer. The Apple ][ was one, but there were many more on the market. --LambiamTalk 21:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Planetary Habitability[edit]

This is a passage from a book about Christianity and the existence of God:

We all know it: The conditions need for a planet or moon to be inhabitable are very great, numerous,rare, and fine-tuned.But there are over 100 billion billion stars in the universe, contained in 10 billion galaxies. Because of that, for a long time, people have claimed that because the universe is so large and there are so many stars and therefore planets in it, even though the chances of a planet being inhabitable is so small, there would still be probably one or a few inhabitable Earth-like planets in the universe.

But actually, scientists have calculated the number of planets out of which you would expect to find at least one inhabitable planet.What they found out is this: The conditions needed for planetary habitability are so great that number of planets out of which you would expect to find at least ONE inhabitable planet is much greater than the number of stars, and therefore planets, in the entire universe!The chances of a planet being inhabitable is 10 to the power of 33 or probably even greater, but the number of stars in the universe is much smaller, only 10 to the power of 20.

So what do you think?Is that claim about planetary habitability true?If so, then does that mean, as many creationists and proponents of Intelligent Design have always claimed, that the universe and the earth must have been created by some sort of Intelligent Designer?If not, then what other explanation would there be for this? 07:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's your problem: "But actually, scientists have calculated the number of planets out of which you would expect to find at least one inhabitable planet." No, they haven't. One scientist, or theologian, or whatever, may have guessed at the probability, but an accurate calculation of that is way beyond the capability of modern science. The argument is based on a false premise. If you've never heard of the Drake equation, it's worth a look. See also Rare Earth hypothesis. Deltabeignet 01:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

As far whether their is life out their, the short answer nobody really knows, and the long answer is nobody really can know.

And also we dont know what kind of habitat we are looking for. A planet without any water, oxygen and at freezing temparatures might hold lifeforms which are not carbon based like us. So, until we know what exactly we are looking for in a planet, we can never calculate the probability of finding life on another world. The above statement you mentioned is the probability of finding a planet in near earth-like conditions. Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 02:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like another pseudo-scientific religious trick reasoning. The key word is 'habitable'. By whom? Humans? In that case it may well be true. The trick is that you conclude that there is no life on other planets. But that's not what they said. But they know you will think it. DirkvdM 07:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The Anthropic principle is somewhat relevant to this. In this particular case, however, the primary scientific claims are bogus. --Philosophus T 08:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Also, consider this. Let us for a moment assume that the calculations are in fact valid: that the chances of life are indeed very small. Now, consider: I went outside my door today and found a plant growing, right next to a rock. A seed must have been blown by the wind, perhaps from a long way off. Now, let us imagine we were back at the plant which produced the seed, a few months ago. At that plant, we could ask ourselves "what is the chance that one of these seeds will produce a plant, that it will grow next to the rock by my door, and I will see it for the first time at 8.30 am on 23 June"? The chance, if we could calculate it, would be incredibly small. Probably as small as the numbers in the quote above. Ok, but the plant was there, no matter how unlikely. Does this (of itself) prove the existence of god, or anything else? No, it just happened. Ok, what is the point of this convoluted argument? Just that lots of things happen, just happen at random. After the event, you can calculate all the probability you like, but, no matter how unlikely the event, it doesn't prove that it didn't happen, or prove that an unseen hand made it happen. There is life on earth, no matter how unlikely it might (or might not) be. So I don't consider this one of the better arguments for the existence of God; however, it exploits the idea that most people don't really understand probability, and very big (or very small) numbers look impressive. Notinasnaid 08:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Whenever someone uses scientific or pseudoscientific reasoning to prove the existence of any type of religious deity, you should be careful. They're usually more interested in proving the existence of God than actual scientific evidence. Never trust someone with ulterior motives (that goes for non-religious stuff too). In this case the argument didn't include non-carbon based life forms. Also, it's based on approximations and none of it is by any means sure. Scientists initially misguessed the number of genes in humans before the Human Genome Project came off the ground. - Mgm|(talk) 09:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

1) we can colonize most planets, not stars and such like but planets, through either biodomes or terraforming. Or at least we will be able to in the near future. 2) if one looks and reads the wiki article on mars that shows photographs taken on mars. there is one that shows a 1mm hole drilled into a rock, this can be blown up to fill the pc screen, it was unable to photograph a single grain of sand, the sand could be alive because: 3) it has been proven that dolphins comunicate to each other and have names, but we cant talk to them so, even if we did find life on another planet, it would not help us in any way. 4) weather or not there is a god, has nothing to do with weather or not there is life on other planets.

  • I recommend the book Lonely Planets by David Grinspoon (ISBN 0060959967), which won the PEN award. It explains the convergences of philosophy and science in the quest to discover alien life in a manner that is scientific and yet easy to read and not insulting to anyone's religious beliefs. --M@rēino 21:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

But how could (large, multicellular) life survive on planets that are very different from earth?

Why cant they survive? As far as we know we cant be sure that the conditions only on earth are suitable for multicellular life. The aliens or animals on other planets, if we find them, maybe using nitrogen to breathe, or maybe they drink something else other than water. The conditions depends on how far you are willing to open your mind up to the idea that life on other planets may exist. Until we actually prove or disprove the theory we have to just keep guessing. Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 13:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


Dear Help,

Sorry for a mundane question: what does the abbreviation "fl." mean when used with a date or date range, e.g., "fl.1057-1058" in a genealogical chart?


Robert T. McKinlay

It means "florit" in Latin on "flourished" in English - basically no one knows when the person was born or died, but they are attested somewhere on that date. Adam Bishop 03:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
From the Latin floruit. JackofOz 03:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The Breakfast Club[edit]

I don't get it. If there are five of them and only one of him, why didn't they just kill him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Kill who? Are you referring to the film with Judd Nelson and Molly Ringwald?? If so, isn't that a bit extreme for getting a detention? Dismas|(talk) 03:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The pricipal. And it's not that extreme. He threatens one of them, in graphic detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)
Maybe they realise that if they mess with the bull, they'll get the horns.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  04:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Why did the five of them not kill the principal. One is such not realistic normal people do not just kill another person. Most view murder as a mortal sin, and in addition, because he was hanging around them they would be the likely supscets, if they where convict they would face life sentences. In as far as far the threats it would seem more logical for them to simply go public with his misconduct.

He's dead anyway! Adam Bishop 05:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You think murder is a reasonable way to avoid an unjust detention? This has to be the most despicable opinion expressed here in years. I feel sorry for your parents and community. alteripse 15:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm the one who posted this question. I would just like to say that I don't think murder is ever justifiable in any situation. I'm sorry that I put this here.

  • Understood. It's just that we're used to getting research questions, so joke questions sometimes get answered as if they were serious.--M@rēino 15:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Easy-to-use guide on writing themes for MediaWiki?[edit]

Does anyone know if such a thing exists? I was trying to write a theme for MediaWiki based on a header and footer I have, but looking at the code of the default theme has totally confused me! If anyone knows, that would be great! -- 05:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

mail order?[edit]

≈Dear Sir / Madam > whilst my wife and I were on holiday in the USA my wife purchased Excedrin > Migraine tablets and found them to be of particular benefit to her, > unfortunately we cannot purchase these tablets in the UK. > Do you know if it is possible for a company to mail order them to us in the UK > and if so could you give me any information about companies who I could e mail > to place an order. > Thanking you > > Dave Roberts JP

Having Excedrin imported would be quite expensive and difficult; chances are a similar product is sold in the UK, but under a different name. Look for something which includes both paracetamol and aspirin, the active ingredients of the medicine. I wouldn't recommend just taking a paracetamol tablet and an asprin tablet at the same time though. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 06:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Just look for something with the same amount of the same ingredients, or (preferably) ask a pharmacist to help you find it. Note that caffeine may also be an active ingredient (in medicine it isn't just there to keep you awake). Note also that the pack will say "acetaminophen" which is the US name for "paracetamol". The pharmacist will possibly not know this. Notinasnaid 09:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In the UK, Tesco's Paracetamol Plus contains both paracetamol and caffeine but no aspirin. May be worth a try though. Anand 10:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Excedrin Migraine has a very different composition from regular Excedrin, but you can actually make your own with a "cocktail" of ordinary asprin, paracetamol (which is the main ingredient in Tylenol, I believe), and a glass of Coca-Cola. See [11]. Obviously, see your doctor if you find that one or two doses is not enough. --M@rēino 21:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Does it really contain acetaminophen and aspirin? I thought it was dangerous to take them together because of the possibility of liver toxicity?--Anchoress 00:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

  • I am very much not a doctor, but assuming that what you say is true, that might be why that combination is reserved for migraines (where the damage to your body from stress could be worse than the liver toxicity) and not used for any old headache. --M@rēino 15:55, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Photo manager with geographical information?[edit]

Is there a photo manager that allows you to link photographs to locations on a map? I know that it is possible to include geographical coordinates in the EXIF data, and that there are several webbased applications that offer this (e.g. flickrmap), but I am looking for a (preferably freeware) desktop application, that positions photographs on your harddisk on a map. I suppose I could do it in a GIS application such as MapInfo, but I would prefer a less cumbersome and more 'elegant' solution. Many thanks, --pjd 07:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd be pretty sure that there are no self-standing freeware applications involving maps down to the level of detail that would be interesting for this (street level). Maps remain the last bastion of total copyright, since they are so expensive to produce. --Zeizmic 16:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, wouldn't this be a perfect Open Source cooperation? Let everyone draw a map of their street (or photograph it in some standardised way), also showing the beginning of every sidestreet. If i every street there is one participating person you could stitch them all together and ... ehm ... ok, sounds a bit tricky. Or is it? DirkvdM 19:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Street-level detail is not really what I am looking for, just an application that lets me classify the pictures on my harddrive by geographical location, allows me to access the pictures on a map. I've found out that Picasa Web Albums allows to geotag photos and view them in Google Earth. Unfortunately, you need an invitation to use this application... Can anyone help me out? --pjd 19:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Further questions/discuss about the counterfeit goods on ebay[edit]

Thank you all for your answers! These are really very useful.

1.However, in terms of a more general view of THE MAJORITY OF the people in the world, if in the reality we can take a poll/a questionnairs to ask all the people in the world, I guess more than 70% of the people will vote "yes, I prefer to buy cheap brand name shoes". If this is the case, (this is just an assumption), so, in this imaginary scinariour, (which is not surprising that only the brand owners dislike the counterfeit goods), would it be more humane and moral to allow the individual sellers to sell counterfeit goods (e.g. Gucci/PRADA shoes, watches, clothes, etc.) on the listings on Ebay? (Just an academic thinking of human behavious on e-commerce, thank you)

2. Can anyone supply the reference/case/news (website links) about the lawsuit against the individual sellers on ebay who tried to sell a counterfeit good, and what were the final decisions from the court?

3. Is ebay going to launch a policy to mendate all the sellers to put on some evidence to prove their goods they are selling are genuine/real product, which does not demage the big name companies' interests?

Would it be more humane and moral to allow people to break the law if it suits them and saves them money? Perhaps. It depends on your ethical framework. It also depends, I suspect on whether you have anything worth stealing. Notinasnaid 09:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I guess I will add my two cents, I don't mind people who sell counterfeit goods on eBay as long as they fully disclose what they are doing. Recently I have been reporting auctions involving CD's of various underground hip-hop groups that have never been released on that format (for example, pretty much all the instrumental versions of rap albums are released onto the 12" vinyl format because the primary audience for them are DJ's who primarily use turntables). Selling CDR's that claim to have the instrumental version of an album is fine if the seller fully discloses that this is a transfer of material from one format to another. Legally, I would suppose the seller would have to include a copy of the actual vinyl release (and merely claim they are offering an extra fee for the transfer of the audio from one format to another) but I am willing to bet this is illegal (or companies would not look kindly on this sort of action) under the DMCA. Legally I doubt eBay would be required to implement steps to verify the seller's items are authentic, just as I doubt owners of buildings where flea markets occur have any legal requirement to verify the authenticity of the seller's products. -- 09:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
This isn't a direct answer to question 2, as it's not on eBay, but it seemed associated, so since I found it I thought I'd post it. "for trafficking in counterfeit luxury items ...24 months in federal prison... $138,264.85 in restitution". [12]. Also, about a lawsuit that eBay is facing, from Tiffany, for not doing enough (they claim): [13]; obviously the result of this could have a big effect on question 3. Remember that Wikipedia does not give legal advice. Notinasnaid 12:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

upload help[edit]

Can someone please upload this image file for me:

I'd like to be able to inline it on talk pages, but inlining external images is no longer allowed. Thanks!

-- 09:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that you need a user account to upload images and I don't have one! Mgm: if you upload the image I'm asking I'll assign copyright of it to you as long as you license it to wikipedia under GFDL! I'd just like it uploaded and can't without a user account :( Please please please do this for me. Thank you! I am the creater of the image. 09:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC).
It will only take you a moment to register for an account. Registering for an account is also a good idea if you are participating on talk pages: rightly or wrongly, people pay more attention if a comment comes from a registered user. Notinasnaid 09:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
By the way, the other reason that it is essential to register an account and upload it yourself is in case anyone needs to contact you about the image copyrights etc. Notinasnaid 09:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
There's no messaging system other than leaving messages on talk pages, so I don't see why it's any different if I have a username. I think usernames are one of the big problems with wikipedia. Anyway, could you please upload this one image for me? Thank you.
Couple of questions. Why don't you want to sign up for an account? And what are you planning to do with this image? It looks a bit silly to me and I can't see any reason why it should appear on WP. --Richardrj 10:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
You are mistaken. As a registered user you would have a personal discussion page, which did not change, just because your IP address changed. This is where messages for you would be left. When a new message appears on your personal discussion page, you even get a notification the next time you visit Wikipedia. I am baffled, though, why you think usernames are one of the big problems in Wikipedia. Being able to connect together contributions is an important element of makes Wikipedia managable, rather than an experiment in anarchy. (By the way, I agree I can't see any use for this image, since it seems to be original research (not allowed in articles, so pointless in talk pages), but I would hold judgement until I'd seen how you intended to use it. Of course, as a registered user, the chances are nobody would object if it was on your personal page, though strictly speaking the page should only contain things relevant to Wikipedia.) Notinasnaid 10:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

anonymous users (IP's) also have talk pages, and also receive messages when these are added to, and I would like you to upload the image so I could put it on my talk page (also, obviously, signing). If you consider the "comment" I scrawled original research, then perhaps you should vote the source article (Q33 NY), for speedy deletion, or at least remove its final paragraph, clearly a comment. As for why usernames are one of the big problems in Wikipedia, I think the current discussion exemplifies it well. I can't believe so many users can waste dozens of minutes reading and typing replies, but not 3-48 seconds to upload an image that they could remove if ever abused. So much for "the Free encyclopedia anyone can contribute to".  :( 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

PS. it occurs to me that you might consider all pictures of user-typed text to be "original research" (including labels added on to a picture), and if so, I would say 1) you are making a distinction without a difference (it's not original research if typed in a form and submitted to edit a Wiki; it's original research if the typing becomes part of a picture added to a Wiki), and 2) you would not make this argument if you didn't have a username. Not everyone comes from a privileged background and social circle. 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
You still haven't answered my question why you won't sign up for a username. Your last sentence seems to imply that you think having a username is something that is somehow not open to everybody. Wrong - it is. And you can get one right now. --Richardrj 11:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
okay, please make me a username and password. I've googled for rsa javascript so I can find a form I can create a keypair in, give you the public key to encrypt the username/password with (to paste below) and where I can retrieve it from with the private key. The userinterface sucks but seems to be okay. Let me know when you've made my account, and thank you very much for all your help. 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Huh? Just click 'create account' at the top of any Wikipedia page, and follow the instructions. --Richardrj 11:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
it says "Login error: You have not specified a valid user name." even though it begins with a capital letter. is there some maximum length or something? Please tell me a username I can use that will work and is (probably) not taken. Thank you. (How did you get your username?)
There are rules for valid usernames. Without knowing what name you tried to create, I can't say what the problem was with it. This is a matter you could probably take up with the Wikipedia help desk. --Richardrj 12:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
well will you suggest a name? or better yet, why not be nice and instead of sending me on a run-around, what if you could find it in your heart to upload the picture I asked. Please? (I don't know what it is with everyone here, that they'd rather spend 20x the time debating than just doing something simple which I asked nicely and would appreciate. Am I doing something wrong? Is it an unreasonable request? I'm seriously near tears.) 14:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC).
Sheesh. No, I won't suggest a name for you. Think of one yourself, and then see if WP accepts it as valid. If it doesn't, keep trying until you find a valid one. Then you can upload as many images as you like. --Richardrj 15:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I've been trying, but apparently you all know something I don't, because it doesn't accept any of my names. I don't want to pick one of your names and add "123" or something, since the rules prohibit that. Could you specify a new name that actually works? I realize this is an "encyclopedia", and as such somewhat formal, etc, but that is no reason to categorically exclude people from a certain background. We have use for information too, and verifiable contributions to make. :(
I just did this: (1) thought of a name (2) Clicked Sign in/create account (3) It says "Don't have an account? Create one" so I clicked on Create one. (4) I filled in my proposed username, and password twice. (5) It all worked. If I try to do this with a username someone already chose it says "Login error: Username entered already in use. Please choose a different name". I wonder if you are missing out the step (3) and trying to login without first creating an account. Notinasnaid 15:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! Please, please, please type the "name you thought of", so that I can try a variation on it, and please write that you won't be offended if my username becomes a variation on the "name you thought of". What was the "name you thought" of please, and thanks in advance for all your help!!! :-D 15:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC).
You could try Nyáregyháza. Or ByInvitel. Both are free. Notinasnaid 17:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying that. I was not familiar with the background to the discussion, so I assumed that you had made the discovery yourself, rather than documenting an existing idea. So, apologies for that, but sorry I still don't understand your problem with usernames. You given an example, but I can't connect the two. All of us would rather be doing something else than continuing to politely refuse to do something you could do yourself, but I am curious about why anyone would object to usernames. And why on earth having a username is connected to "privileged background and social circle"? Notinasnaid 11:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
All of us would rather be doing something else than continuing to politely refuse to do something you could do yourself yeah well if "all of you" didn't have usernames, you wouldn't be filling my question post with crap replies -- sorry, you wouldn't waste dozens of collective minutes "politely" declining, you would wait for someone who was helpful enough to go through the few seconds I'm asking. And if not, as with my post above, afterwards I would take it from the reference desk to the wikipedia help desk, where perhaps they aren't so snarky. 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC).
Non sequitur. Ad hominem. I think you're losing respect. --Kjoonlee 22:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
By the way, while anonymous users can get messages, IP addresses can change. For some people, each time they most; for others maybe not until they move house. Notinasnaid 11:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Right. It looks like it's the same person who wrote "NY33Q part of the call numbers on one of the 9/11 planes' tails?" and "Important" above, posting from a different IP. --Kjoonlee 11:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's the same "important" post but no one answered my question above either [I was thinking of linking it to show I have the "right" to GFDL the pic, but that's obvious and trivial and if there were any contest anyone could just create another] :( :(. Anyway you can see it's the same subnet though as above, but the fact that SO many people wrote snarky replies but not one took 7-56 seconds to help me leave me very sad :( :(. 11:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC).

So you wrote both "NY33Q part of the call numbers on one of the 9/11 planes' tails?" and "Important"? Even if somebody were to upload it, I'm sure it would get deleted rather speedily. --Kjoonlee 11:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
yeah, of course, I thought it was obvious. I don't want to insert it in any article pages, as I've said from the beginning. :( 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Images not in use would be candidates for deletion as well, I think. --Kjoonlee 12:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
on article pages, i said. or do you think its inappropriate on (user) talk pages too?
Images unused on article pages without valid copyright info are candidates for speedy deletion. Since you won't upload it yourself, and nobody's willing to do it for you, nobody can provide proper copyright info. Hence it's doomed for deletion even if someone were to upload it. --Kjoonlee 14:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Are you seriously saying that the fact that I made it and would assign copyright to you not enough "proper copyright info". You can tell I made it. I own the copyright. How is it different if I assign this to you than if I upload it myself? What if someone impersonates me and uploads it: it's already on imageshack. Okay, how about this: Kjoon, if I make a brand new version, with a prominent "released into the public domain", will you upload it from imageshack to wikipedia for me, with the caveat that you will delete it if anyone contests the copyright (legitimately, only I could, since I created it from scratch -- using fonts and such doesn't make it a derived work.) Thank you for your help! You're the only one in all this convoluted mess who's actually thinking of trying to help me. :( (Am I doing something wrong? Should I have phrased my request or anyswers or anything else differently? I don't understand why people would write so much against me, it weighs heavily on my little heart. :( ) 15:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC).
Honestly, I don't feel like it. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think your picture would be against what Wikipedia is, and I don't think I want to add to "conspiracy theories." --Kjoonlee 16:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is actually trying to be rude or anything, I think most people just simply cannot understand why someone would not want a user account. As for the technical problems, that's beyond me, but at least we can't necessarily blame that on you. And by the way - if there weren't any usernames, how would you expect to ID people, with all the problems with IP addresses? I mean, this is open source. You need to see different people. martianlostinspace 16:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly everyone else here figured out to create an account so I think you should be able to as well. People have been more than welcoming and more than patient with you. As for in-lining links to images, I don't know if that was truly ever possible -- it certainly hasn't been since 2004, when I first started editing on here. You'd get better responses from people if you weren't so rude to them. If you are having trouble creating an account through Wikipedia, go to the Wikipedia:Help desk, which is where technical questions are answered. --Fastfission 16:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC) eyes are bleeding. Vitriol 04:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Troll. --mboverload@ 05:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Issues with Velcro[edit]

My post-surgical back brace fastens with Velcro strips, which have picked up bits and pieces of lint, pet hair and other stuff. Is there a way to clean Velcro?

Look up 'velcro brush' on Google, and you will get some nice products like this: "Velcro Brush. Great for getting hay, hair, debris off your velcro. Don't replace it, clean it with this nice sized Velcro Brush!" --Zeizmic 12:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Legal question[edit]

If someone posts/trolls on an internet forum, and continues to do so after the forum bans his IP address, is that poster in violation of any US law? For someone with limited legal knowledge it is difficult to judge whether or not a legal threat (Stop or you will go to jail, or stop or we will file a civil suit) is legitimate or just an intimidation tactic. I certainly don't want to violate any law, but if my actions are protected under the first amendment, as I believe they are, I don't want to be intidated out of doing something that is legal. Thanks! Mayor Westfall 14:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

As noted at the top of the page, there is not much point in asking legal questions here; the law is incredibly complicated, and changes with time and place. It's far simpler to study netiquette. --Shantavira 14:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
You can't track an IP and I severely doubt if it matters, because US law doesn't govern the internet. Philc TECI 15:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
It is quite likely that continuing to troll an internet forum after you have been banned violates the terms of service of your internet service provider. If you were to make sufficient nuisance of yourself, the forum operators are likely to contact your ISP, and you might find yourself disconnected. (Contrary to what Philc stated, given a specific time and an IP address, most ISPs are capable of identifying the person who used that address.)
Note also that the First Amendment – and I'm assuming that you're referring the U.S. one – applies only to government-imposed restrictions on free speech. A privately-owned and operated forum on the web is not compelled to provide you with a soapbox for your free speech, and is not obliged to let you troll unhindered. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
You can only track them with the consent of the servic provider can't you? Philc TECI 22:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
You double-posted this. See my answer on the Humanities reference desk. DJ Clayworth 15:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I double posted, as I was unsure of the catagory. Looks like I'm getting better answers over here, so please feel free to delete the humanities on if you wish.

I'm not asking if the Forum is legally justified in banning/IP banning me deleting my posts, etc. I am asking if I can be held legally liable, civily or criminally if I bypass those blocks and continue to post/troll whatever they want to call it. Mayor Westfall 16:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

How about just not being a dick? If you're not wanted on a forum, go away. If you stop annoying them, they'll stop threatening you. If you kept coming back, I would hope that they could find something to hit you with. Depending on your jurisdiction, there's might be some sort of 'unauthorized use of a computer system' statute on the books; if you make a sufficient nuisance of yourself they might also sue you to recover the costs associated with your unauthorized use. If you're not sure, consult a lawyer—it's your money. But I'd strongly recommend just not being a dick. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, you might think I'm being a dick, but what if there were a website forum that denied the holocaust and I were a Jew posting on the site calling out their BS. Im only interested in the legal issue here anyways, not if you think im a dick or not. Mayor Westfall 17:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
That's still being a dick. It's not your job to police the internet. If you want to call them out on their BS, create your own website that says, "This website is wrong for X and Y reasons." As long as you don't libel them there's nothing they can do about it. --Fastfission 20:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
If you are attempting to break into a computer system knowing that you have been specifically banned from it then it probably would fall under some sort of anti-hacking law. However the risk of real legal liabiilty is low. More likely would be attempts to contact your ISP because you are probably violating their terms of service. The First Amendment no more protects your right to break into another person's computer than it does to break into their house. --Fastfission 17:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Fastfiction, do you know what statute governs accessing someone's computer after being IP banned? I mean, if I send someone an email, then I am accessing their computer by putting information on it... Would this really fall under a anti-hacking statute, if I am not actually hacking their computer? Would they be able to file a civil case? If so, how could they claim any damages? Where could I go to get more information on this? Mayor Westfall 17:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
If you Google "hacking laws" you'll get a number of hits. The most relevant statute seems to be this one, which is an anti-fraud statute. Most of it is irrelevant unless you are trying to stead credit card numbers. Depending on what state you or the computer are in, there are local laws as well. As for whether trying to get into a site that you have been specifically banned from, I think that probably would fall under a standard definition of "hacking". I am pretty sure sending e-mail would be seen ananlogously to sending real mail -- it is not the same thing as breaking and entering, even though you are "accessing" their house by sending a letter to it. But I don't know about all of this, I know little of cyberlaw. I doubt there is a real legal threat here, but you should probably know that you have no "right" to access a given website (and your time would probably be better spent if you just knocked it off). --Fastfission 20:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
FF, thanks for the response and the links. -Mayor WF

registered trademarks[edit]

Hello, I was wondering if it is possible to make the circle r (registered trademark) on TWO MEN AND A TRUCK® a subscript next to the company's name. Currently it is the same size as the entire text. We would like it to be smaller.

Please let me know if this is possible, or if the only way to have it is by keeping the same size as the rest of the text. Thank you.

Assuming you are talking about HTML, try this: TWO MEN AND A TRUCK<sup>®</sup> (Which makes: TWO MEN AND A TRUCK®). (If you really meant subscript rather than superscript, use the <sub></sub> tags. If you want to have more control over its exact appearance, Google "superscript CSS", where there are explanations about how to change the exact size of the superscripted character and its exact position using Cascading Style Sheets. --Fastfission 17:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Staying completely with HTML, you could also use a font tag to make the R smaller: TWO MEN AND A TRUCK<sup><font size=-1>®</font></sup> (Which makes: TWO MEN AND A TRUCK®). --LarryMac 17:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sign in / create account[edit]

The Sign in / create account links at the top right of the page move to the left side of the page and hide behind the Wikipedia logo everytime I try to log in. This also happens in Wikimedia Commons. Does anyone know why it does this, and if there is anything I can do to stop these rogue links? Any help is appreciated. -- 18:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What Web Browser are you using? Is it IE by chance? -Benbread 18:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I am using Internet Explorer. Everytime I put my cursor over the links they jump to the other side of the screen and hide. -- 19:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Two suggestions:
1. Try it with a different browser. Mozilla Firefox has a lot of advantages over Explorer, including its proper rendering of pages.
2. Barring that... log-in with the direct link (, create a new account, then you change the stylesheet used for the account with your preferences (, and one of them should work without all of the fancy CSS which seems to be clogging your browser.
One of those should work. I emphatically suggest the first one though I know how annoying it is to be told to "get a new browser". --Fastfission 20:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Please use the help desk for questions on Wikipedia itself. --Kjoonlee 00:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I deliberately went onto IE to see what happened, and it looked fine. Iolakana|(talk) 20:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I use Internet Explorer and the login page always appear correctly for me. However, IE does have its quirks, which can cause some pages not to appear as intended. I also use Mozilla Firefox quite often, and I admit that this sort of thing is less likely to happen in Firefox than in IE, probably due to superior support of web standards. Andrew (My talk · World Cup) 23:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I've had the same problem, in firefox, but only when I've already logged in, so it only hides my Userpage link, and the others still stick out of the side. I don't know what caused it though, as it hardly ever happens, but it does happen. Philc TECI 14:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • What version of IE are you using? -0 Mgm|(talk) 18:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Serie E Savings Bonds[edit]

I have two Series E Saving Bonds. One is a $25 Bond dated April 1967. The other is a $50 Bond dated July 1965. Both are in mint condition. Are these of any value as collectors items?

I don't know about their value as collector's items, but the US Dept of Treasury has a Savings Bond Calculator page that will tell you what they are worth if you trade them in. --LarryMac 18:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

There were millions of these printed and put away carefully in safety deposit boxes, so it is hard to imagine any collector paying more than their monetary value, which by now will be several times their face value. Edison 23:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


What's happening with the case that involves with the Mexican-Canadian couples' death?

  • Sorry, a Google News search turned up nothing. Do you know the couple's name?--M@rēino 21:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
It's Dominic and Nancy Ianiero and there might be something more recent than that. Mareino, next time try just googling, that's how I got the info, the CBC link was the first hit.--Anchoress 00:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
We shouldn't have to google it in the first place =D --mboverload@ 13:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)


I notice that Israel and Turkey are considered as Asian nations, but when it comes to soccer, they're part of UEFA. How come?

The article on Turkey says it's considered an "intercontinental nation", and UEFA includes places like Kazakhstan... it's a football tournament, why should geography have anything to do with it? Sorry, that wasn't particularly helpful. Tyrhinis 21:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
They also take part in the Eurovision Song Contest. --RiseRover|talk 21:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
And Turkey is about to become a member of the EU --pjd 22:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Israel used to play with the Asian countries, but the Arab countries refused to play against Israel, so Israel was forced to move to UEFA. -- Mwalcoff 23:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Turkey and Russia are in both Europe and Asia and have always preferred to play in European competitions (more prestige, more money). When Kazakhstan (also in both) became independent they chose to play in Asia but then changed their minds later on (presumably for the same reasons).

As Mwalcoff says, those Arab countries which dont recognise Israel wouldnt play them so they were put in Europe instead to allow the Asian competitions to carry on without constant politicking. Jameswilson 23:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The FIFA Confederations are named for convenience and don't conform exactly to the limits of the continents. There has been a lot of fuss lately about Australia moving itself into the Asian confederation - yet no-one has mentioned that Guam has played as part of Asia for some time, nor that Guyana is in CONCACAF rather than CONMEBOL. It's certainly no stranger than countries like Greece, Turkey, and even Luxembourg being members of NATO (the A stands for Atlantic, remember). Grutness...wha? 01:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
NATO isn't an exclusive club for atlantic countries, it's a treaty for western countries really. Philc TECI 22:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that depends on what you consider to be a "western" country. If you mean it in the political/cultural sense, countries like Australia, New Zealand and Israel should be elligible for membership, yet somehow they're not. Loomis 21:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, they've never applied. Philc TECI 14:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Are you sure, Phil? You may be right and if so I'd be grateful if you pointed me towards some evidence that these countries have no interest in joining NATO. I can't see why they wouldn't be keenly interested in joining, especially Israel, because that would mean according to the North Atlantic Treaty, should it ever be attacked by a hostile power, all other NATO countries would be obliged to come to its aid. I can't see why Israel wouldn't want to be a part of that sort of alliance. Loomis 21:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Political parties[edit]

How many political parties does each country have that deals with anti- neighbouring countries platform, like for example, Bangladesh has Anti-Indian political parties(Bangladesh Nationalist Party and Jammat-e-Islami) and an Anti-Pakistani political partty (Awami League)?

I would guess these are pretty rare. Finland has, though, the True Finns party, whose ideology is pretty much that Finland should only fend for itself in the entire world and not cooperate with any other country, but there is no party whose official statement is opposed to another country. JIP | Talk 22:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Some of the political parties in Northern Ireland (in spirit though not in name). Jameswilson 23:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I suppose it'd depend on whether or not you count highly nationalistic parties, that are anti- pretty much every other country. If so, virtually every democratic country has a party espousing these views (though in most cases they're consigned to the fringe) GeeJo (t)(c) • 22:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The raison d'etre of the Canadian Action Party is anti-Americanism, although they would probably call it something different. The Bloc Québécois is anti-its own country, although its members wouldn't call Canada their own country. -- Mwalcoff 02:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

It also depends on what you're actually willing to count as a party. In most democracies there are literally dozens and dozens of the most bizarre parties imaginable with the most bizarre of platforms imaginable that never actually manage elect any canditates into the legislature. Should we count those? If so, I'd have to say that pretty much every democracy in the world will have not just one, but several political parties of the type you speak of. But if you're looking for parties that actually get their candidates elected, that's an entirely different story. Loomis 21:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

About translations...[edit]

I was surfing the net, and got across a Wikipedia page in Spanish. But I realized the translation was not complete and I wanted to do it. But then I came across the copyright rights and stuff... and I'm not sure now: what must I do before I can translate a page? Wikipedia pages have copyright rights also? When I translate a page, can I include the pictures from the "original" page or just the text?

Specifically, I was looking at this two pages: <> <>

Any help will be appreciated, --Memonka

You can include the pictures. Those on the ES page are on the Commons, and so they'll load into EN with no additional work. The image on EN will need to be loaded onto the Commons if you want it on the ES page. ==Tagishsimon (talk)
All Wikipedia content is licensed under the GFDL, which means that it is legally compatible with itself. In order to do full GFDL compliance you should put a note in the edit summary that you are translating from the Wikipedia page (attribution), but nobody will care much if you don't. Feel free to translate! People will be very thankful. --Fastfission 03:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


On my computer. Is it better for the hard drive to place the computer in "shut down" mode or in "Standby" when I am done with it for the day or session?

Shutdown. Standby is just a low power mode, I believe. There are certain combinations of options that allow you to turn off varied computer peripherals. --Proficient 23:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Some computers do have a "Hibernate" mode which puts the computer in a near-shutdown state, but keeps the session data so that when the computer is powered up again, it will be just as you left it. However, I would shutdown a computer when I've finished using it for the day. Andrew (My talk · World Cup) 17:39, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
In anything except shutdown and switched off, in event of power surge, you risk losing everytihng, including your computer. Philc TECI 22:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Hibernation == writing mem to disk and shutting down. Splintercellguy 09:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
It is either impossible or very dangerous to the computer to do this in Standby mode. In standby mode the computer still has power; if you touch anything in the computer with metal you may cause a short circuit and permanent damage. This is also true if you switch off and leave the power cable connected. So you must disconnect the power cable; this would end Standby mode suddenly, as bad as switching the computer off without shutdown. So, shutdown, and remove the power cable. Normally, hibernate is a good idea, but you should never hibernate over a hardware change; the system is unlikely to be able to resume. By the way, modern computers are never really off unless the power cable is removed... a power surge can still do damage after shutdown. Older computers had a real on/off switch before the power supply and were protected. If there is a touch switch, the computer is "always on". Notinasnaid 08:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


Is he really watching me? --Kurt Shaped Box 22:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

File:Ceiling cat 00.jpg
This page is big enough without out this dammed cat looking at me. Anyway my own cat never watches.
I have just removed a speedy delete tag from this section. Unfortunately, the tag applies to the whole page. Road Wizard 23:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
keep: the reference desk should continue to contain a miscellaneous section, since many, many questions don't fit in any of the other disciplines and wouldn't be readily answered there.
keep These people need a home! --Howard Train 05:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

List of phrases which mean to die[edit]

Where can I find a list of phrases that mean to die such as "kick the bucket" or "meet his maker" etc.?

We have a List of idioms in the English language, and Wiktionary also has a category devoted to them. Both pages include many of the phrases you are after, though they are mixed in with many others. Road Wizard 23:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
This question has been double posted. See the related section at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#List of phrases which mean to die. Road Wizard 00:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

C&C Generals: Zero Hour[edit]

This question is only meant for players of the mentioned game.

Is there a Challenge mission where one can play against General Juhziz (Demolitions), or is it only available in a mod? Same with General Fei (Infantry). And how can I play this "Ironside" guy. I've never even heard of him. Also, Is there a differance in damage between nuclear radiation and anthrax radiation? Russian F 01:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Pretty sure I played against both of these. Ironside was taken out, he was supposed to be the USA counterpart to Gen. Leang (China) but you only get to play against Leang. Nuke radiation does more damage to vehicles than biotoxin, AFAIK. -- Миборовский 01:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but how did you play against them? If you don't know, you dont have to look it up or anything. Correct me if i'm wrong, but your name seems to indicate that you are from an east European nation. Perhaps the version (of the game) released in Europe is different then the American version. Despite my username, I am not, in fact, Russian. Russian F 16:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
To play against them you need to have some kind of mod or something that unlocks the characters in the game. We used to have a page about this here which explained how exactly this worked, however one of our admins was nice enough to delete all of that material, so I have nothing to point you two that would help. Perhaps if you were to ask someone involved with editing the Command & Conquer series pages you may get a more precise answer. TomStar81 01:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

June 24[edit]

World Cup salaries[edit]

I was wondering how much players in World Cup teams get paid for playing. Do they do it for free because they get so much money from their clubs anyway. But then I heard that the Togo players were about to go on strike, because the Togo football federation hadn't paid them something like $100,000 for playing. So do the players just participate because of the pride for playign for their coutnry, or do they get large salaries? --AMorris (talk)(contribs) 02:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

BBC report on England. USA Today report on the USA (box on bottom left ). ESPN report on the Germans. Reuters report on the Ukraine. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are humans so stupid and weak in Dragonball Z?[edit]


Generally, if you hit humans with lightning, they will die. But I don't actually know anything about DBZ. Vitriol 03:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Because the writers felt like it --mboverload@ 13:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Funny, I was watching Zatch Bell! last night and thinking, "My god, did they just make an entire episode about how to play tag? Oh, my god, they did!"--M@rēino 15:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
It is a fictitious show, obviously. The writers can make humans weak or strong to their taste. --Proficient 17:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Do keep in mind that if you watched the English dub, you are watching a lamer dub version of a Japanese cartoon show, which is a huge strech out of a much more compact comic book. Not all humans are weak, Yamcha and Krilin( if you ignore that he doesn't have a nose) are human.

I am afraid providing cheesy comic relief is the main goal, like mister Satan.

I would say, because superhumans in DBZ are the stars, and the editors probably want to make them a lot superior in contrast to humans.--Captain ginyu 20:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Because Dragonball Z is a TV adaptation of a comic which is (at least initially) based on Chinese mythology, and humans are nothing but insects to be crushed in that? -- Миборовский 01:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

mystery bug[edit]

There's a bug in my kitchen and could somebody tell me what it is?

I've seen these around for some years, and they terrify me to be honest.

It's about an inch long and a few milimeters wide, it looks to be made of fur. Its got a kind of spotted pattern in the fur on its back. Out of each side of its body are dozens and dozens of inch-and-a-half-long, thin but very furry legs. I see no antennae or eyes.

I tried to blow air at it to get it to go into a cup I was trying to catch it with and it was totally unresponsive. I then covered a large piece of aluminum foil with 2-sided duct dape and threw the sheet at it to try to stick it (its really fuzzy so i thought it would stick well). I hit it but it zipped off at incredible speed, raising its body a bit and extending its legs fully. After a foot or so of running, it completely stopped, crouched to its original position, and went comatose again. I captured it the next time, and it's stuck to the tape now.. I hope :)

Can someone direct me to an article on these type of creatures? I've never seen it anywhere except my house. Do they typically come in groups like bees ant ants or are they loners like grasshoppers? Most importantly, are they dangerous?

It's one of the most revolting bugs I've ever seen and I don't doubt for an instant that I'd pass out if I felt it crawling on my bare skin. It might ease my anxious mind to know it's not poisonous..

EDIT: it's probably a house centipede (just found it) -- however all the pictures I can find of this insect are really -i dont know- insecty with black shiny armor etc. my bug is very very furry, almost like a big fur ball, and has colored hair down its back rather than colored armor. any extra info on this variety?

--Froth 05:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Three important questions: What country are you in? How many legs does it have? What colour is it? (Are you sure it's not a caterpillar? They can be very furry, but they tend to be slow.)--Shantavira 11:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Eastern US, dozens on each side, brownish. It's definately not a caterpillar; it perfectly fits the descriptions of house centipedes. However instead of hard armor, it has fur. --Froth 16:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
If you want to kill it, just use my napalm recepie. Throw some benzene, gasoline, and polystyrene. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 18:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Horse centipedes are gross and very fast but also very fragile. If you so much as tap the little thing it'll break into a milllion pieces. Definitely not a threat. --Fastfission 17:48, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Eight is Enough[edit]

I have recently tried my hardest to match actor names to faces in the picture at Eight is Enough. It's been a while since I've seen reruns, and I know I have at least SOME of them correct, so I was wondering if anyone more proficient on this show than me can check to see if I'm right. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 06:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It says on the wikipedia article their names. --Proficient 17:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
That wasn't exactly what I was asking. There were eight of them, and I don't exactly remember which child was what actor/actress, etc. I thought I was pretty clear in asking "Can someone check for me if I have the correct names in the caption, corresponding to each correct actor?". Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 18:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the names are in the correct order. — Michael J 20:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Rage The Werewolf: Apocalypse[edit]

Who invented this whole Rage Werewolf Apocalyspe thing?

-- 08:05, 24 June 2006 (UTC)Zachary

It was White Wolf, Inc.. It is written inside of the book. Flamarande 13:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, --Proficient 17:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Any laws against the online buyers who are willing to buy counterfeit goods?[edit]

as in the title, are there any laws in the USA, UK and other European countries against the online buyers (mainly through ebay) who are looking for cheap counterfeit goods? It wouldn't be fair if the law is only against the ebay as a platform, or only against the sellers who use ebay to benefit the billions of billions buyers in the world, would it?

Look for yourself here: --Proficient 17:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course. It's still illegal, regardless of the medium. Loomis 21:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Photo resolution[edit]

looks lovely reduced

I have a lot of photos which (in terms of resolution) are all something like this. If you look at the full-size version, it looks awful- all blurry. Does this mean that I can reduce the resolution (and therefore filesize) without a real loss of quality? If so, how do I know how much I can reduce it? HenryFlower 10:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

What's the make and model of the camera? There's obviously something wrong with it. Anyway, doing anything with a picture in jpeg format reduces the quality. However, just resizing it so it looks sharp would "seem" to increase the quality. Is your camera one of the scam ones that use a crappy quality sensor then resize the picture up? --mboverload@ 11:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is. What would the difference be between (say) a 3.5 mp jpeg, and the same bumped up to 5 mp by interpolation and then reduced back to 3.5? In other words, would I be better off turning off the interpolation? HenryFlower 12:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
That will reduce quality. Doing ANYTHING to a JPEG reduces its quality, and even if it wasn't JPEG, that process would reduce quality. To get good pictures be sure (a) to get pictures returned by the camera at a native resolution (that is, one that the camera takes directly); (b) use only optical zoom; (c) check the JPEG compression settings; go for one with high quality, not small file size. Increasing the resolution of a picture over what the camera takes is utterly pointless; camera manufacturers offer this only to convince the gullible that they can get more detail from their camera than they actually ever can. There may be other issues with the high resolution image: the blue lines at the edge of objects might mean the optics aren't as good as the image needs, or they might be an artifact from some other issue. Notinasnaid 12:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks- replacement isn't really an option until digital SLRs get significantly cheaper, so for now I have to make the best of what I've got. HenryFlower 13:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Interpolation is the DEVIL. Turn it off before it ruins more of your photographs =P --mboverload@ 13:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Also called "digital zoom", it's not only of no value, it's worse than no value, it creates fuzzy, cropped pics instead of a nice sharp pic. Only use "optical zoom". StuRat 15:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
    • StuRat is so right that I must concur. --M@rēino 15:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Digital zoom generally makes stuff blurry indeed. --Proficient 17:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I've also used digital zoom myself on my camera, and have consistently found that pictures taken with it are of significantly lower quality than pictures taken without it. Digital camera manufacturers do, however, tend to warn that a digital zoom can make your photographs "grainy", or something along those lines, in their instruction manuals. Andrew (My talk · World Cup) 17:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
After edit conflict:
Well, if there is a choice between digital and optical zoom, I also concur, but if all you have is digital zoom there is the slight advantage that the resulting file will be smaller. Digital zoom doesn't add any detail. What it really does is crop the image - it throws away the edges. You can also do that later in Photoshop or whatever. So if you are already at the limits of optical zoom, want to zoom in further, and may run out of memory if you don't, digital zoom makes sense. Other than that, it's worthless, so normally you should have it turned off at the deepest possible level to avoid mistakes. DirkvdM 17:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
At least on my digital camera, the digital zoom option does not reduce the memory requirements for the pic, since the savings from cropping are all taken up by the new interpolated pixels it adds to make the image fuzzy. It has an option to crop manually, however, which does reduce the file size without adding any fuzziness to the image, StuRat 17:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Amount of pounds sterling in circulation in britain[edit]

Hi. I would be grateful if anyone could help me with the following question. I'd like to know how much Pounds Sterling there is in circulation in this country today. How many billions,trillions? If possible i'd also like to have an idea of the amount in circulation in Scotland as opposed to the whole of Britain. Can anyone help? Thanks very much. Ed

  • Well, one thing to keep in mind is that with electronic banking, credit cards, and the like, an ever-shrinking fraction of the amount of "money" is actually in paper currency form. So you'll have two radically different numbers for bills and for total net worth. --M@rēino 15:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
  • If you are interested in cash, British coinage and British banknotes have links to Bank of England web pages which have estimates of cash in circulation. For other forms of money check out Money supply. Did you know in 2004 £86,000 worth of UK bank notes were returned because someone ate them?[14] :-) Weregerbil 16:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Source info is here, though it's rather heavyweight. First you might need to define your question in terms of the very many measures specified here -Tagishsimon (talk)

Australian ISPs.[edit]

Is there an Australian ISP that will provide DSL with speeds 1Mbit-down or better and never fine me for downloads, or shape my speed once the quota is reached? (Most AU ISPs give you a limit of 25GB, and then reduce you to 64k after you reach it). Maybe that will help. --Proficient 17:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Toronto Maple Leafs Last Stanley Cup[edit]

Exactly how many days has it been since the Toronto Maple Leafs Hockey Team won their last Stanley Cup. Last win was May 2 1967 up to today's date of June 24 2006. Need to know the exact number of days including leaps years.

14,299, according to this website (which was the first Google result for "day counter", incidentally). Adam Bishop 15:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Artemis Fowl Font[edit]

Does anybody know the font used on the cover of the Artemis Fowl books, among others? I mean the font for the title, not the Gnommish). Thank you! Daniel () 16:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Googlimages shows plenty of fonts for these books titles. Is is the one with a quite square "M" and an a "W" alike McDo's "M" ? --DLL 21:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
'Tis the one pictured in the article Artemis Fowl (book). So yes, I think. Daniel () 18:46, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

i am on disability and in my apartment i haven't had hot water 2 days[edit]

i would like to know my rights, also i am getting harrassed by my landlord her family, friends, and neighbors. She sent fire dept. up to my house with false statements, lied to the police and to a Sargent. My gas is off and have no hot water. I call 311 and they called HPD for the city and made 4 complaints, I have a lease that she signed in front of city workers, she is responsible for gas & elec Bills. She lied to this cop and told him didn't I see two gas meters. She is a miser and I only get one check a month. My case manager Miss Henry is coming to court with me on July 20th Supreme Court, she heard everything on the phone, she is having me harrassed by lying to everyone. So the Sargent tells me I will have no hot water until I pay the bill, which my case manager has a signed lease she signed stating in my rent she gets from the city gas and elec included she is committing fraud. My case manager says I don't have to pay anything she will have to pay the city all back, she takes the rent checks but does not honor the lease. I want hot water no human has to live like this my name is Francine Malave her name is x I live at x because of all this stress I fell down the stairs cut my finger real bad skin is hanging I would like something done please. my phine number is x. She has people in the whole neighborhood coming up to my house harrassing me. It hass to stop. I want hot water I am not suppose to pay her water bills for that matter any bills. Please respond. Thank u very much

Take her to court and sue the hell out of her. If you have to wait until July 20, then sue for even more. Also keep in mind that bots crawl these pages and harvest your information; don't post your address or phone number. --Froth 16:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Keep calling 311. Pacific Coast Highway (blahlol, internet) 16:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Certainly wikipedia is not the place for this. --Proficient 17:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Request Gmail Invite[edit]

Could someone please invite me to use gmail? I recieved replies last time I asked but when I emailed back, that was the last I heard... --Username132 (talk) 18:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Gmail is an exclusive club and if you are good enough, you would already have Gmail by now. — The Mac Davis] ⌇☢ ญƛ. 18:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I have 99 invites left, coz i'm soooo coooool, how do I send you one? Philc TECI 22:14, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I've no idea, not having seen the interface myself. I'm hoping someone else will come along and advise. Now my course is over, my university cuts off my current address in less than a week :( --Username132 (talk) 22:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I use GMail myself, as well as Hotmail. If you're in the U.S., you can get a GMail invitation by SMS text message [15], otherwise someone (say, a friend, relative or family member) has to send you an invitation by e-mail. For existing GMail users, there is a section you can use to send invitations (labelled "Invite a friend") on the left-hand side of the Inbox page, which you may have to scroll down to see. Invitations can be sent by entering an e-mail address in the box and then pressing the "Send Invitation" button. If you wish, you can preview the invitation beforehand. I have 99 invitations left if anyone wants them! Andrew (My talk · World Cup) 23:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
There are a few websites out there that match people with Gmail invites. [16] (French), [17] (Italian) and [18] (English) might be of help to you. --Howard Train 05:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
That English link has had no activity since 2004. The French one, if my linguistic skills don't fail me, has had 7000 invites and 142000 requests for invites. I think asking Andrew would be more productive. ;) HenryFlower 08:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Ask me, I have 100! Iolakana|(talk) 14:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I've got plenty too, just click my signature, visit my userpage and use the link in the toolbox to the left to email me and I will reply with an invite. - Mgm|(talk) 17:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've 3 gmail accounts and all of them have 100 invites! -- Миборовский 01:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I also have a few invites to spare. I even see people trying to sell the bloody things on eBay. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 08:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Robert Rowling - Baptist or Methodist?[edit]

I have been researching the backgrounds of the regents of the University of Texas. One trustee, Dallas billionaire Robert B. Rowling, is usually identified in the media as an "evangelic Christian," denomination unspecified. I noticed that Wikipedia lists Rowling under the "Methodist" religious category, along with President Bush, whom he supports.

However, when defending Rowling in a February 26, 2006, letter to the Corpus Christi Caller-Times, Brian Watson stated, "I know Bob from First Baptist Church..." The funeral of Rowling's father, Reese Rowling, was also held at First Baptist Church in Corpus Christi in September 2001. The funeral of Rowling's maternal grandfather, Ellis Sumerlin, was held at the Faith Baptist Church in Snyder, Tex., in 1997. I have not found any mention of other specific churches in relation to Rowling or his family.

It is a minor point, but what reason is there to suppose that Rowling is a Methodist?


Is there any cd program that invovles with you creating a human body and you make it as a sidekick, like for example, I created a girl and I make it as a sidekick?

Pig male yon ? --DLL 21:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)]
Probably. --Proficient 21:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
what? --Howard Train 05:15, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think technology has yet evolved that far...I think you may have to make do with a simple blow-up doll. Loomis 09:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Question on an exotic coffee[edit]

A friend who once applied to be a manager trainee at Starbucks said that there is an exotic coffee from South America that is one of the most expensive in the world. He said that the secret of this particular coffee was that the beans were eaten by certain rodents, perhaps in the Amazon. The rodents then excreted the beans whole, but some chemical or enzyme in the rodents' digestive system interacted with the beans - this gave the coffee made from these beans a distinctive taste that is highly valued by coffee connisseurs. I think that my friend is kidding - or, at least exaggerating. Has anyone heard of such a coffee?

Chuck Murphy

He's thinking of Kopi Luwak or Chon cafe. They both do exist (albeit in southeast Asia rather than South America). Luwak, as far as I can tell, is shat by a civet; Chon is vomited by a weasel (choose your favourite). HenryFlower 20:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and to be more specific - the civet cat (which is not quite a rodent) eats the coffee berries; these have the coffee beans as seeds. DS 20:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. Kopi Luwak seems to be what your friend is talking about. --Proficient 22:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
This was a question on QI. Stephen Fry claimed he once had to come up with a present for prince Charles, and not wishing to give him something he already had, gave him a bag of chon. DirkvdM 06:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it was on CSI: once, when Gil Grissom said it. So, are Starbucks really selling that? Iolakana|(talk) 14:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Term to use in an article section header[edit]

Hiya, I'm stumped for the correct term to use in an article I'm working on.

This is the scenario. I'm reworking an article on a broad area of study, similar to mathematics, or relationships, or any broad subject that covers a lot of areas.

Within the article structure there are some things that are within the subject and some which are about the subject's place in human knowledge.

For example, in relationships, there's types of relationship, sex in relationships, social relationships, commercial relationships... and these are all topics and subjects within relationships. But also there's relationships' taxonomy in human knowledge, relationships as a social construct, controversies about gender studies, and so on, and these are about relationships as a field of study.

So I have in my draft article, "Methods within X"... now I need a section title for "X as a field of knowledge" -- and I'm stumped. The subsections this has to contain are things like:

  • Taxonomy (classification) within human knowledge
  • Other topics connected to X
  • X as a discipline
  • Distribution of knowledge about X
  • Applications of X
  • Controversies about X

Can anyone suggest a good section title for a section with these subsections? I know its vague and an odd question but... ideas? :) FT2 (Talk | email) 21:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

That was fairly confusing. --Proficient 22:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I know... and I'm usually pretty good with words, but this time I'm stumped. Does it make any sense to you? FT2 (Talk | email) 22:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite of question

I'm writing an article on a subject, where its controversial whether it is or isnt a discipline, an art, a science, a field, etc. People cant agree what it is.

I want to discuss "the body of knowledge" rather than "its internal structure or approaches". So I'm after a heading something like "X as a field" to contain subsections on "classification of X", "controversies about X", "means of distribution of knowledge about X", and so on.

I'm not clear what to title that section. FT2 (Talk | email) 23:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Be bold, FT2. Your first idea must not be so bad, else you'd not think of it. --DLL 19:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


I've been trying to find a certain photograph for a while. I'm fairly sure It's an AP photograph, taken during an African conflict, and that among other places, I've definitely seen it on Wikipedia. It shows a black man running towards and to the left of the camera, carrying a child in his arms and with a number of other people fleeing with him. I remember reading in the image caption that the child was nine years old. It's from one of the many African conflicts or civil wars, but I can't remember which one, making it fairly hard to find on this site or any other. Any idea which one I'm thinking of? GeeJo (t)(c) • 23:05, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure, but I will keep my eyes open for you. --Proficient 00:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

i would think we wouldn't 'carry' the photo anyway for copyright reasons. ap doesn't go to the public domain or copyleft.

We have lots of copyvios- we just call them fair use. HenryFlower 08:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
This is not an AP photo. You are thinking of the famous photo depicting the Soweto riots. The image can be found here. It is copyrighted and used under fair use criteria in the article on the Soweto riots. —WAvegetarian(talk) 01:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yep, that's the one. Thanks :) GeeJo (t)(c) • 14:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

June 25[edit]

finding an article[edit]

A few days ago, this is June 24th, I saw an article on the main page that had a picture of a woman, from about a century ago. I clicked on it, and it was about how her ghost was the only ghost in America's history to be successfully used in a courtroom. Now, I can't find the article, and I completely forget what its title was. How do I find it? please email (e-mail removed, questions are answered on the desk).

I think the article you are looking for is the Greenbrier Ghost. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 02:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Check your internet history files. -Mayor WF

Just went from Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 1, 2006 to Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 24, 2006 and there is no reference to any women. Iolakana|(talk) 14:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
It may not have been a featured article, it might hzve been a Did You Know? User:Zoe|(talk) 20:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

What Are Degrees Plato Used For?[edit]

Sometimes in beer reviews or maybe even on a beer bottle the "degrees Plato" of the drink are mentioned. I know from reading wikipedia's article that this has something to do with the density of the beer (I'm not good (at all) at chem, so "specific gravity" is meaningless to me), but what does that matter? How do I use the Plato scale? What does it mean if one beer is 15 degrees Plato and another is 25?

"The scale expresses the density as the percentage of sucrose by weight, so a wort measured at 12° Plato has the same density as a water−sucrose solution containing 12% sucrose by weight." (from the wikipedia article)
That's probably the easiest way to put it.  :/
--Proficient 03:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Are Gen-pets real or a hoax?[edit]

I have been trying to find out if Gen-Pets are real or just a web hoax, does anyone know for sure? Has me mystified. The links seem legit.

thanks, Don -- 04:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Its fake - its one of those hoaxes which justify themselves by being "art projects". See for the culprit. This was discoverable from a whois domain ownership search. Not that the hoax is particularly convincing anyway, given that if it was true, it'd be front page news in the world media Bwithh 05:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Wiki policy on listing maiden names...[edit]

Hello...came across the Sir Elton John page and it says the following:

Elton John was born Reginald Kenneth Dwight in Pinner, England the son of Squadron Leader Stanley Dwight, RAF, and his wife Sheila.

I have dug up his mother's maiden name and changed it to read: Elton John was born Reginald Kenneth Dwight in Pinner, England the son of Squadron Leader Stanley Dwight, RAF, and his wife Sheila Harris.

What is Wiki policy when giving a mother's name? Do we always default to married name or married name with maiden as a ne or maiden name alone?


KsprayDad 05:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say that it should read:
Elton John was born Reginald Kenneth Dwight in Pinner, England the son of Squadron Leader Stanley Dwight, RAF, and his wife Sheila (née Harris).
My reasoning is that by using "Sheila Harris" you imply that this was her name when Elton was born (which I assume it wasn't). Using "Sheila (née Harris)" gives her maiden name without implying that this was her name at Elton's birth.--Melburnian 09:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree, "Sheila Harris" is misleading because it wasnt here name when her son was born - "née Harris" is better. Jameswilson 22:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks guys...I have changed it to nee Harris but is there no real wiki policy? KsprayDad 00:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) 2.1 Maiden Names --Melburnian 01:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
acouple of other tiny, laterally connected comments. In this case "Sheila Harris" is ambiguous in another way not listed - it could imply that her name was Sheila Harris Dwight (i.e., that Harris was a middle name). Also, as many but not all would realise, née is used for a woman's birth name, but you'd theoretically also be correct to write Elton John (né Reginald Kenneth Dwight) was born in Pinner... Grutness...wha? 06:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
It's also worth bearing in mind that maiden name and married name are not necessarily different. The guidance quoted above is pretty easy and clear, but does leave room for ambiguity. That's life really. --Worm 13:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


can u give me a site for translations of english words into many(italian.french, spanish etc..) other languages?

Try this site. --Richardrj 07:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Or this one, or here --pjd 07:37, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Use WorldLingo! Why does nobody ever think to use this one! I think it is good! Iolakana|(talk) 14:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I use worldlingo. —Daniel (‽) 19:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

MS Paint[edit]

My friend recently lost MS Paint from his computer. One day it just wasn't there anymore, and doesn't seem to be installed on his computer at all. He really wants it back.

I'd gladly burn it onto a CD for him, or email it to him, but I can't find it anywhere. Does anyone know where it's located on a computer's hardrive? Battle Ape 07:37, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The exe file is in Program Files/Accessories; I suspect that he's just deleted that rather than actually uninstalling it. If he has uninstalled it, however, restoring it might be more complicated than just re-adding the exe file. HenryFlower 08:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
In XP, if you go to Control Panel and then Add/Remove Programs and click on "Add or Remove Windows Components" on the left, you can re-add Paint under "Accessories." I'm not sure this will work if he's only deleted the EXE, but if Paint is fully removed, that's the way to get it back.-Elmer Clark 10:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Just a guess, but did he recently receive an email warning him of a 'dangerous' file on his computer that he had to remove? If so, there's a good chance it was a file crucial to using Paint. - Mgm|(talk) 16:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe a system restore will help? --Proficient 17:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
It's in "%SystemRoot%\System32\mspaint.exe", which might be "C:\Windows\System32\mspaint.exe" (depending on your installation). —Bradley 18:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Sodium silicate[edit]

I will appreaciate if you can tell me chemical compatibility of sodium silicate

Did you read Sodium silicate?
Shouldn't this question be in the science section? Russian F 17:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


what is the density of glass

It varies. Do a google search for "glass density" and you should get some numbers. --Robert Merkel 11:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It varies indeed. In fact crime scene investigators (like the ones in CSI) can use this together with its refractive index to determine the source of the glass if it was ever found on a crimescene. - Mgm|(talk) 16:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

major revisions complete[edit]

The Half-life computation article has undergone substantial revision which has hopefully addressed everyone's concerns. If you have any further comments after looking at the article again, please list the items you do not like, make whatever comment you have and please be specific and allow time for further revision. If there is any reason I can not comply with your wishes then I will let you know the reason why. ...IMHO (Talk) 12:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ambulances and border/customs?[edit]

After a friend had an accident in Gibraltar,she was taken to hospital in Spain for treatment.What do ambulances/other emergency vehicles do at border crossings?Can they go straight through-surely on an emergency call,time is critical and it's unlikely that the patient would have their passport/visa/etc with them?-- 13:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)lemon

If this happened once, it will happen more often (eg because Gibraltar has no (big enough) hospital) and there will probably be some special arrangement. A somewhat similar case was when my father died in Belgium (during a stroll he had crossed the border) and the queen's commissioner (for whom he worked) quickly arranged for his body to be (illegally?) transported back because else there would have been a lot of hassle. DirkvdM 12:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


Do male kangaroo have a pouch?

  • Nope. Only female marsupials have a pouch. DS 14:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
No. --Proficient 17:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Where do they store their tobacco ? --DLL 18:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
They roll it into cigarettes and store the cigarettes behind their ears. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:48, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The Pope's Easter speech[edit]

What happens to the Easter speech if the Pope has died shortly before and the cardinals are still in conclave electing another one?None of the senior cardinals can give it because of the secrecy rules-so who does?Or do they just do without one that year?-- 14:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)lemon

I would think that they would just do without it. --Proficient 17:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Has that ever happened before? (the Pope a dying few days before easter) Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 19:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
The last Pope to die near to Easter was Pope Innocent XIII. He died 7th March 1724 and Easter was 16th April. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

A kind of IP rights piracy[edit]

There's a new term that described a kind of outsourcing piracy: The manufacturing factory does an extra shift so it can churn out additional "genuine" but unlicensed goods. How do people call this? -- Toytoy 14:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it just piracy? --Proficient 03:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I mean a freshly coined business jargon. -- Toytoy 04:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
grey-market overshifting. (Not. There's no name.)

regarding copying an article[edit]

Hello, i wanted to copy an article and use it on my website. now, i just want the text article, i dont want to use the photo or graphics, is that ok? also, do i need to activate all the links within the article? i just want to use the text without worring about the active links.

You must read Wikipedia:Copyrights#Users' rights and obligations and Wikipedia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License and follow the guidelines on both pages. —Mets501 (talk) 14:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

tree swallows[edit]

I have 1 tree swallow house in my yard which has 4 babies in it. Within the past week there have been 5 or 6 other swallows, both male and female, trying to enter the house. Why?

Squatters. No one cares to build its own house if it's build yet and free. Were not the babies using a winchester to fight them ? --DLL 18:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

A Song title[edit]

I am looking for a song title in which I only remeber these lyrics of the song: Here we go... Here we go again.... I have typed these lyrics into Google, and I found this R&B song Here we go, here we go again Now you're tellin me, that she is just a friend Then why's she callin you, at 3 o'clock in the mornin... which is not what I am looking for. I have typed the melody on The Song Tapper, here if that would be of assistance. Please give me the title and/or artist(s) of the song. Thanks! --Domthedude001 16:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Was it the Sex Pistols or James Blunt? EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 17:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Might be heading the wrong direction, but could it be There She Goes?  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  18:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is There She Goes! Thank you Slumgum for the answer and thank you EvocativeIntrigue for taking the time to give me a responce! --Domthedude001 19:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 22:17, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Go for The La's original version, too. Far better than the Sixpence None the Richer cover version. Grutness...wha? 06:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I dont think it's There She Goes by The La's. It sort of fits the melody but not one of the lyrics is in that song thus I think has to be ruled out.--DPM 07:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
A v quick google came up with 'Here we go again' by Trina Kelly Rowland. Lyrically, I'd guess that a six year old penned the track. --DPM 07:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I already got it, it was There she goes... I must've heard the lyrics wrong. Closed.. --Domthedude001 17:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Eastern Continental Divide[edit]

I have exausted my search for a Map of the ECD, ie the portion that is located in NC. along the Appalachian Mts. that divides the watersheds, either to the Atlantic Ocean or the Gulf of Mexico. I have found a map showing the ECD in Georgia and S.W. North Carolina. My need is a map showing From Ashville, N.C. area and points North to the Virginia..Please advise, thanks, wayne
That was of no help? --Proficient 20:17, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Weird Japanese bondage cartoon thingy[edit]

OK, this is going to sound weird, but I have to ask it somewhere. I've looked at Japanese bondage cartoon websites, and have noticed a rather bizarre recurring theme. It's apparently some kind of sporting event for girls. The girls are in pairs, their hands are tied behind their backs, and they are tied together by one leg. One girl is gagged, the other is blindfolded. Apparently the blindfolded girl has to grab a loaf of bread hanging from a string in her mouth. Now my question is, what the bloody heck is this all about? I can't read Japanese so the websites' text is of no help. This looks too bizarre to be a real sport (although you never know...), so is it some kind of weird Japanese manga invention? It looks too complicated, and there are too many artists using it as a theme, to simply have popped into someone's mind. JIP | Talk 18:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow. That is pretty weird. --Proficient 20:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
The context makes it seem like some kinky objectification of women, but it actually isn't that strange when you strip it down (intended)to the basic structure. It's probably from some Japanese gameshow. It combines the three-legged race, with pinatas, with pin the tail on the donkey with unconventional communication initiave challenges. The two must move together. One can speak, but the other can see. The best strategy would be for the blindfolded one to tell the gagged one a series of audial commands about what direction to move, e.g. one thigh slap = forward, two = backward, three = left, etc. Actually, it sounds like it could be fun. I'll try it out at my summer camp, but replacing the gag with a simple admonishment.—WAvegetarian(talk) 01:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Obstacle courses featuring bread on a string, three-legged races, soccer, etc. are a part of a Japanese school sports event called undokai. The students get a day off from normal school, get assigned to one of two teams, and compete against each other in several "sports." --Kjoonlee 02:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
So this is simply a bondage-oriented variant of undokai? Thanks for the reply. JIP | Talk 05:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Almost, but not quite. An undokai is what the whole day of the event is called, AFAIK. The race/obstacle course/soccer does not happen all at the same time. To make an analogy, your manga sounds like a one-man band, rather than a series of sonatas and symphonies. --Kjoonlee 06:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
So it's more like a combination of several undokai sports rolled up in one, with a bondage-oriented theme? JIP | Talk 06:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yep, I think that's pretty much it. --Kjoonlee 11:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
WAvegetarian, you certainly should try it at summer camp. I guess it would be the first time it's been tried in real life. Please then tell us which set-up worked best: boy-boy, boy-girl (with boy blindfolded or with girl blindfolded), or girl-girl.
Kjoonlee, it appears we do not have an article about undokai. Since you know about this sports event, why not write an article about it? JIP | Talk 15:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid I don't know enough about undōkai to create a good article, and I only have experience in the Korean version, undonghoe. As a side note, it seems undōkais are usually held on Health and Sports Days. In the anime Battle Athletes Victory, undōkai is taken very seriously. --Kjoonlee 10:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Oops, we already have sports day. --Kjoonlee 10:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Just doing a Google search for undōkai has brought up several potential sources. I will write a short article about it later today. Road Wizard 10:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Just about the "strip (intended)" thing. The girls I've seen in the pictures are decently clothed. They are wearing T-shirts, gym shorts and sneakers. JIP | Talk 13:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to this discussion, I find myself subconsciously associating undokai with softcore BDSM. The reason, of course, is that I first even heard of undokai in the context of these Japanese bondage cartoons. I have to remind myself that the real undokai is perfectly innocent and child-safe. Perhaps when we have an undokai article, I can add a mention of this bondage variant. From the pictures, it seems to be well enough designed to deserve a mention. JIP | Talk 19:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Unknown relative[edit]

Hi, My name is Debra Lein. My grandfather, John Asheim was born in Norway and came to Ellis Island. My father, Leonard passed away and his dying wish was for me to go to Norway and find his cousin...Inger Seim. Her last known address was 5260 Indre Arne, Seim, Norway. I wrote to her several times and she quit writing because of her age. I am traveling to Norway and would like to find her, or at least find out if she passed on. She would probably be about 80 or 90. Would you be of assistance? I have no idea where to begin. -- 21:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC) I am leaving in 2 days. A kind man on the internet said that you might be able to help.

Please respond to: (Email removed, spam is not tasty!). EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 22:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Debra (—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) ., but AOL IP address).

You could try the humanities reference desk, but I'd try contacting your nearest Norweigen consulate/embassy to see if they could help! Good luck, I hope you find her. EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 22:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This is unrelated but I found interesting that she has the same name (Seim) as the town she used to live/still lives in. Maybe the town was founded by the Seim family? If so, maybe you can find some other relatives there. But yeah, going to the Embassy is a good first step in any case. --RiseRover|talk 22:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Seim is probably not a town, it doesn't even have a Wikipedia article, and people in Norway usually take the names of places as lastnames not the other way around. There are several people named Inger Seim in the phonebook so she might have moved. Inger Seim search.--Eivindt@c 22:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
5260 is the postcode. There are six Seims listed (see here) Chances are one of them's related. Jameswilson 23:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

swatch sunglasses[edit]

I have two pairs of swatch clip system sunglasses in plastic case, possible his and hers. One tortieshell effect other pastel coloured spots. Can anyone tell me anything about them. i.e Year of manufacture, were there many ever made, are they still produced and possible value? Would much appreciate any info as haven't been able to locate much on the internet. Thanks Jen←

I wouldn't expect much value, as Swatch is a rather low-end fashion brand better known for their watches. There isn't much of a used sunglasses market, anyway, so they would have to be something really special (like a Cartier diamond encrusted pair worn by a famous actress ?) to be worth much. StuRat 18:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

article deletion[edit]

When an article is deleted where can a user obtain a copy of the last version? ...IMHO (Talk) 22:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ask an admin, but not all admins will do it. -- Миборовский 01:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Usually you can. You should check the deletion log to see which admin deleted it, then ask them to copy the article into your user space. If you go to the article that was deleted—by typing the title into the search box and hitting go—you will find a link top this log. You can also go to Special:Log, select delete from the log type menu and enter in the title of the article you wish to inquire about. One reason that you might not be able to obtain a copy is if an article contains attacks or personal contact information or other content that by definition violates policy. If you wish to contest its deletion you may make your case at Wikipedia:Deletion review.—WAvegetarian(talk) 01:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
See Category:User undeletion for admins that have offered to do this. --GraemeL (talk) 01:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
You may also be able to find it at one of our mirrors, such as User:Zoe|(talk) 02:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

merging between ip and user[edit]

I've made contributions on my IP without being logged in. I was wondering whether I could merge the contributions made with the IP and the ones made with the username. The IP is and the user name is the one I'm using. Yonatanh 22:29, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Sadly not as far as I know. I had the same problem! EvocativeIntrigue TALK | EMAIL 23:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Place a redirect in the IP user page. ...IMHO (Talk) 23:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes you can, talk to a bureaucrat. -- Миборовский 01:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

okay but how about the contributions page? Yonatanh 00:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

A bureaucrat? Yonatanh 01:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Bureaucrats can not help with this. You need a developer to change attribution for an edit but no developers are currently doing this, so it isn't possible. Bureaucrats can only change user names, not merge accounts or reassign unregistered edits. Angela. 17:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
And remember Romain Gary - two pseudos' better than one. --DLL 20:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


Is there a website where I can buy products of Nevada (clothing), the one that make clothes? Maybe? --Proficient 03:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)



Can someone tell me who was this comedian who made fun of French-Canadians in his talk show?

Conan O'Brien did that while filming his show in Toronto. Adam Bishop 23:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Relocation to San Mateo County Help[edit]


We are soon to be relocating to San Mateo County. I have done all of the research on almost all of the towns in San Mateo County however there is a problem.

We really love greenery. I was on a consulting assignment for the Alameda County Office of Education and rented a house in the Berkeley Hills for 2 months. I was totally smitten. It satisfied my lifelong fantasy of living high in the hills, surrounded by greenery, overlooking a large body of water. (Presently we live in Beverly Hills and although there is much greenery we are not in the hills nor do we look at water).

Out here we have what is called Palos Verdes Peninsula and the highest point on it is around 1500 ft. overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

Would you be kind enough to suggest a short list of locations that perhaps satisfy at least two of the three requirements all three including a view of water would be ideal. We intend to rent a house first. I will be working in San Jose and commuting from Berkeley is just too much. (I am 57 years old and for 10 years commuted 90 miles round trip to work and do not want to do that again). Someone recommended Los Altos Hills and another said I would be happiest in Woodside. Sorry to say I was singularly unimpressed with San Jose. Though we live in Beverly Hills we love Los Angeles and all the goings on here events and ethnic restaurants so we would like proximity to urban life. Santa Cruz reminded me of Laguna Beach small nice and incestuous meaning a bit too insular.

Thank you in advance to all for your time and attention in this matter.

Call me naive, but wouldn't the easiest way to find such places be to call a couple of realtors in the towns that you are interested in and ask if there is anywhere that meets your requirements? --Robert Merkel 01:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, this is a really specific question that could be answered easily by a specialist. --Proficient 03:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
And based on the places you've lived, I'm guessing you can afford to hire a team of personal real estate agents. StuRat 18:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
To check for greenery and view of water, did you try Nasa or Googlemaps ? --DLL 20:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Half Moon Bay is right on the coast. You might look into Pacifica and Moss Beach, too. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Half Moon Bsy ? That cracks me up. What kind of a half-assed name is that ? :-) StuRat 01:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

June 26[edit]

urban legand or truth[edit]

I heard once that a long time ago some famous actors stole the body of another actor after he died and proped him up on a chair and partied with the corpse for a few days. Does anyone know if this is true and who was it? Thank You.

While I haven't heard of this specifically, I'm sure it has happened at least once in human history. I will note that there is an episode of the Americant tv forensics drama CSI that included the stealing of a body from a morgue for the purpose of partying with the corpse, specifically episode 115, which is part of season 5. See List of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation episodes for more information. —WAvegetarian(talk) 00:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
If the episode number actually is 115, then it would be part of season 1. And I think it is - I have seasons 1 and 2 and I remember it coming up on the DVDs. Just a note. 23:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Or see Weekend at Bernie's A very funny movie!

I seem to recall that, around 8 years ago, some medical students in Dublin, Ireland "borrowed" a body from the morgue and brought it to a party. --Downunda 01:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I've read that story, involving Errol Flynn I think. Probably one of the Barrymores too. I forget, although my father has a book called "Movie Anecdotes" that has the story in it. Adam Bishop 01:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Adam Bishop, My father told me that story about 20 years ago and since he has passed away and I couldn't ask him. I will read the book, and thank you again. Loudbirds 15:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Help! My girlfriend is getting fat[edit]

When I started dating my girlfriend she weighed 115-120 lbs, now she weighs 130. How can I get her to lose 10-15 lbs? Mayor Westfall 02:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Tell her. Pacific Coast Highway (blahlol, internet) 02:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Tell her is correct. Discuss what you can do to help her lose weight and not be fat (to be blunt). --Proficient 03:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
130 is fat? In what world? You can tell her, but be prepared for her to either get really angry, or dump you. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 03:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
What's disgusting is that he's upset because she gained 10-15 pounds between age 16 and age 20. Scroll up, or check the history of the Kids, why? section, for where he mentions that he started dating her when she was 16 and he was 22. Unless she's 4'5" 130 isn't fat. Underage children are children. Children grow. This is a fact of life. Girls tend to grow up and grow out, adding weight. Afterall, mammaries and buttocks are made up primarily of lipids, which is high school science for: breasts and asses are made of fat. —WAvegetarian(talk) 05:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't even want to touch the "she was 16 and he was 22" thing, but seriously, if anything, she gained that 10 or 15 pounds due to a number of factors, including but not limited to basic growing, and the possibility that she started the Pill. In any case, this earns a total wtf. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 06:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I've kinda come to the conclusion that Mayor Westfall is a troll; I suggest he is the one that should be put on a diet; or at least should stop wasting our time with his juvenilia. --Tagishsimon (talk)
After posting the above I saw the racism, suggestion that another editor commit suicide, and the numerous questions regarding avoiding prosecution for illegal activity and came to the same conclusion. I suggest we just ignore him and stop feeding him. I'm not sure if that was implied by your diet comment, but it was very fitting. —WAvegetarian(talk) 18:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

A very industrious troll. Unfortunately somebody told him how to change IP numbers with a proxy server. But I always find that something bad happens to these people.. --Zeizmic 13:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

(Personal attack removed)

I might be a troll, but I'm not one on Wikipedia. Going from 120 to 130 is getting fatter, it may not be fat yet, though it is a little past my personal taste. Nonetheless if allowed to continue, at some point she will become fat. And I ain't down with that Mayor Westfall 14:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a bit shallow, don't you think? Also, you've been with her for four years, and you haven't gotten to know her as a person to the point where you wouldn't leave her if she got, quote-unquote, "fat?" Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 08:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

after swimming[edit]

why does my penis get smaller after I go swimming?

Maybe it's shrinkage. 02:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Your genetailia are responding to the cold water conditions of swimming and are retracting to be closer to your core as the testicles have to be maintained at a certain temperature for sperm production.
It's retracting for warmth. It's a reflex and you do not generally have control of it. --Proficient 03:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Keeping it warm makes sense. But not for sperm production, because that is done in the balls. Notice that they get 'sucked in' too, though. DirkvdM 12:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
See The Hamptons (Seinfeld episode). --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 18:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


Why isn't masturbation fun anymore after you ejaculate?

See Refractory period. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
There is a certain period of time you must wait to have "fun" again. --Proficient 03:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Just like with mushrooms. DirkvdM 12:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Because you just noticed the ceiling cat is watching you, should have used a pastatute. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
We can't suitly emphazi this to you more strongly. Philc TECI 13:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
After ejaculation, one should sit idol, relax, perhaps talk to the ceiling kitty. --LarryMac 21:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
No, because once you have ejaculated god kills the kitten, but now that i've mentioned this a domo-kin has also been killed. damn it....Philc TECI 00:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Domo-kun, actually. --LarryMac 14:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Who says it isn't? --Bonalaw 11:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Template for Spliting Articles?[edit]

Is there a special template you can use to request that an article be split into different segments? Kindof like the merge articles one, only with the opposite effect. --YankeeDoodle14 03:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It's {{split}}. If you need anything drop a message. Yanksox (talk) 04:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. --YankeeDoodle14 04:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
BTW, Split has a very nice template
--DLL 20:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Food origin[edit]

Hi, I would like to know how to find out the food origin of the following countries.

For exmaple, Curry came from India

           Sushi oringinally came from China not Japan.

Which food came from Canada oringinally? From Canada: smoked meat, (a perfected version of pastrami,) by far the best bagels and the best rotisserie BBQ chicken the world has to offer, and of course poutine. (yechh!!) Loomis 21:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

       "        "   Australia         "      ?
                    Thailand                 ?
                    China                    ?
                    Russia                   ?
                    France                   ?
                    USA                      ?
                    New Zealand              ?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by JenniferYeh (talkcontribs) 05:39, 26 June 2006.

Looks like homework to me. We don't do people's homework for them. Our articles on the relevant countries might be of use, as might Cuisine. There's a whole bunch o' links in that article that might be of use. --Howard Train 04:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Start: --Proficient 06:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Here are a few:
China -> spaghetti (although without the tomato sauce)
France -> escargot (snails)
USA -> hot dogs (although a German immigrant first sold them)
StuRat 18:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
For Canada, try poutine. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I have to disagree with Zoe here. I strongly recommend that you don't try poutine. Loomis 01:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The Kalaam Cosmolgical Argument[edit]

The Kalaam Cosmologist Argument is an argument for the existence of God.It goes like this:

1.Whatever has a beginning must have a cause.(God doesn't need to have a cause because he doesn't have a beginning.He has always existed in the past.)

2.The Universe had a beginning.

3.Therefore, the Universe must have a cause.

4.A chain of causes cannot be of infinite length.

5.Because of that, the cause must be God.

6.Therefore, God must exist.

So what do you think about the Kalaam Cosmological Argument?Do you think it is logical?

      • Well time didn't exist before the start of the universe so how did God Exist in the past? Anyway that looks awfully like special pleading to me. So no it does not look logical to me.

This is a version of the "first Causes argument" and you can find more about it here:

If you want to discuss the issue in detail somewhere like is a more suitable venue.--Charlesknight 09:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

The first assumption places God on a pedestal needlessly, if we are assuming God was uncaused then why couldn't the universe be uncaused (this seems weird, but it is only not weird for God because it is God, even though many Eastern Religions would place these same attributes (uncausation) to the universe). This objection pertains to assumption 4 as well. And by the way, what you want to ask is not whether it is logical (which I assume you mean does the conclusion follow from the premises and this is called logical validity) but whether it is logically sound (which basically means do we have any reasons to accept or deny the premises). Additionally, a quick Google search reveals some websites with objections to this particular version of the cosmological argument.-- 12:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen some bullshit proofs of god, but this one is really lame. Too many assumptions that aren't in the least bit evident. DirkvdM 12:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I've seen worse: I've seen people use the fact that the theory of evolution cannot completely, non-ambiguosly, and non-disputably explain every single aspect both of animal biology and of human psychology as "rock-solid proof" that evolution is false, and creationism, word-for-word as written in the Bible, is true. JIP | Talk 13:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

HAHAHAHA thats really funny JIP, i have met people like that too, evangelicals, or even-jelly-calls what idiots, i usually ask them if they have read origin of species, they never have. most of em havent read the whole bible either, in fact most of cant read. i repeat hahahaha

I agree that it's total BS, too, but, just for kicks, let's take it point by point:

1.Whatever has a beginning must have a cause.(God doesn't need to have a cause because he doesn't have a beginning.He has always existed in the past.)

If anything with a beginning must have a cause, anything without a beginning must have a cause, too. I don't see any reason to treat the two cases separately. IF we found some rock in space and determined somehow that it had always existed, would we be able to accept that without explanation ?

2.The Universe had a beginning.

I don't see any evidence of this. Perhaps he was referring to the current phase of the universe, which is some 15 billion years old. It's entirely possible, though, that we live in an oscillating universe which expands and collapses every 100 billion years or so.

3.Therefore, the Universe must have a cause.

Given the assumptions, this is the logical conclusion. But, again, the assumptions aren't a given.

4.A chain of causes cannot be of infinite length.

Sure it can.

5.Because of that, the cause must be God.

How do we get to this conclusion ? Even if God were the cause, then God needs a source, as well.

6.Therefore, God must exist.

Same comments as for 3.

Now let me add my counter argument for the lack of necessity for God:

1) If the Universe is infinite, either in time or space, then all things that are possible must eventually occur, including the formation of life and humans.

2) The universe is infinite (this isn't clear, as we can certainly only observe a finite universe, but I am assuming it's really infinite and we just can't see beyond our "bubble").

3) If humans must exist in the universe solely based on random chance, then it is illogical to conclude they were created by God.

This argument has an interesting similarity to the belief in God, that it is not negatable. That is, nobody can prove that the universe isn't infinite (although there might be a terminology question on how "universe" is defined), so nobody can ever prove this argument wrong.

StuRat 17:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

After edit conflict:
Yeah, I also noticed that many so-called christians know the bible even worse than me. Next time they use such argumentation, ask them what happened after Kain and Abel. Where did the mext generation come from? Incest? No, Kain went out into the wide world and met another people. Another people? And where did they come from then? My conclusion is that the bible is just a story about the origin of the Jews, not mankind in general. DirkvdM 17:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
This deduction looks to me more like it's concluding something was the cause of everything. This "something" is not necessarily God. But then the parenthesis in part 1 (God does not need a beginning) is pulled out of thin air, and this "something" is automatically marked as God. Without the parenthesis, you could have a decent argument. But with the parenthesis, this degenerates into a tautology: God has always been present => God is the cause of everything. We could substitute anything for "God": the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Urho Kekkonen, me - it would still hold true. JIP | Talk 18:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
But if the universe is infinite and 'everything must occur', then God must exist as well, no? Besides, you're taking it as a given that the universe is infinite, just like the original argument was taking stuff for granted. - ulayiti (talk) 23:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, Maimonides in his work Guide for the Perplexed says explicitly that this proof is bogus; but there are other proofs for God which are not. Many fellow Rabbis were opposed to him saying this. He explain that if he let these proofs stand, many would believe that this is the only proof for God. Better, he explained, if he disproved what is wrong and proved what is right. Jon513 18:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm always puzzled by those who attempt to use logic or science to prove the existence of God. For example, there are quite a few people who actually go through the trouble of explaining just how, it's scientifically possible, with the winds blowing in this direction or that, and the moon being in whatever position, that the Red Sea could indeed have been parted. Personally, I believe in God. Specifically, I believe in a God that transcends our simple understandings of logic and science. So to try to prove the existence of God with some sort of logical argument or scientific explanation seems to me to be just plain silly. Loomis 21:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
In short, if God is omnipotent and all-knowing and all that, and we're not, then how can we know God? DirkvdM 06:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

The Purple Kitten Cosmological argument is very similar:

1.Whatever has a beginning must have a cause.(Purple kittens don't need to have a cause because they are imaginary)

2.The Universe had a beginning.

3.Therefore, the Universe must have a cause.

4.A chain of causes cannot be of infinite length.

5.Because of that, the cause must be Purple kittens.

6.Therefore, Purple kittens must exist.

Or, to put it another way, all you are really saying is "Given God exists, the universe must be caused by God, so God must exist", which boils down to "If God exists, then God exists". Grutness...wha? 03:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

  • "I am that I am"--hotclaws**==( 05:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

Have you also noticed that the more nonsensical the subject (God, intelligent design), the longer the discussions?
That said, if the reverse is also true then most of my own discussions must be utter crap. DirkvdM 06:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Your point being ..... ? (LOL, Dirk, just having some fun.) JackofOz 13:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 The following book might prove to be an interesting one for you
    " Code Name God - The Spiritual Odyssey Of A Man Of Science ",
 by - Mani Bhaumik.
                 Pupunwiki 12:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Brian Griffin[edit]

Greetings. I have discovered that Wikipedia actually does NOT know everything. My girlfriend asked me what breed of dog Brian_Griffin is. The article, while very thorough, doesn't seem to have this information. Does anyone know, or would like to venture a guess? (I apologise for the silly question, althogh the ref. desk has seen much much worse) :) --inksT 09:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It took you this long to realise Wikipedia does not know everything? Sorry, I just had to ask it. JIP | Talk 10:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
It's kind of laborious, but you could start by going through the List of dog breeds and see if any dog looks like him. - Mgm|(talk) 10:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I doubt the dog is any breed at all, just a drawing. So that's probably why the article seems to have let you down - Adrian Pingstone 12:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
He looks a bit like Snoopy and Snoopy seems to be a beagle... Here they do mention Brian Griffin as beagle. But to tell you the truth I'm not the biggest dog expert... :) --RiseRover|talk 13:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
It's a cartoon. Philc TECI 13:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I think Brian griffin is a Jack Russell, sorry no pun intended, he just looks like that.

I vote for beagle, or perhaps a cartoon breed that has evolved from the beagle. StuRat 17:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
IANADE, but they say "The Griffon Bruxellois or Brussels Griffon is a breed of dog, ... the breed is generally small, with a flat face, prominent chin, and large wide-set eyes that gives the Griffon an almost human expression—and they are often compared to an Ewok." --DLL 18:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
More to folk etymology of dog characters names : "The Briard is a large breed of dog, one of many herding breeds." --DLL 18:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
You thought wikipedia had EVERYTHING? It only has like 1.2 million articles. That's far from everything. Plus only "important" stuff is mentioned. --Proficient 22:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
He hasnt got beagle ears though. Jameswilson 22:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks all, and bonus points to RiseRover for the link. Even if Wikipedia doesn't know anything, someone hanging around the reference desk is bound to find it out. My faith is restored! (Yes, I'm joking about the faith thing. Yes, there reference to Wikipedia not knowing everything" was intended to be funny, not serious. Sheesh :D )--inksT 07:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

facility maintenance management.[edit]

what is the importance of facility maintenance management on public utility or toilet of a high rise building?

Without it people would not be able to do their own homework? DJ Clayworth 14:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Go into any Taco Bell bathroom and you will personally see the results of poor bathroom maintenance. :-) StuRat 17:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

How to remove 'disputed' tag from web page[edit]

Virtual inheritance (object-oriented programming) has been updated to cover a dispute.

[goal] Remove disputed status from 'Virtual Inheritance' page

As a Sr. Software Executive and System developer I 'note' the following :-)

[1] WikiPedia did not have a automated (place a request) step wise process for removing a 'dispute'.

[2] No 'user forums' exists (like Microsoft MSDN - C#, C++ language forums)

[3] No web page for 'to remove a dispute tag do this'.

This is my first (and perhaps my last) WikiPedia Article.

I just spent an hour wasting time looking at a really, really poor process for JUST STARTING THE PROCESS of removing the disputed status from an article.

I've looked through all the dispute resolution info which is so poorly done (realative to workflow automation, process steps, etc.) its hard to believe.

[A] I just want to 'start the process' for removal.

[B] I need a succient, SINGLE, list of steps.

[C] I could use a simple 'users forum' (just like MSDN above).

[D] I have no problems with anyone or anythng (dispute originator, etc)

[E] If the dispute resolution process is stratified with several processes list them

[F] Make a single page listing for each 'dispute process' and keep it clean

If anyone can help please let me know.

Otherwise I won't be wasting time editing articles for WikiPedia.

Shawnk (see Virtial Inheritance - Object Oriented Programming)

PS. You need to hire a Sr. consultant who can ...

[1] Add user forums to WikiPedia

[2] Architect the major work flow processes on site

[3] Provide a single 'point an click' operation to start any process

[4] Provide a 'process location - status' section so new users to any process know where they are (in process)

If you want quality people you need to automate and expidite all processes involving more than one person.

Thanks to anyone answering this post.

Please excuse the tone of frustration in this post :-)

BTW - [4] ..process location..

is a box that remains on the web page as you 'travel' through all the web pages that delinate some web based user dialog process.


Here's my signature (still pretty new to this :-)

--Shawn wiki 14:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. We always appreciate people who are right at the begining of their understanding of wikipedia telling us in detail what is wrong with the project's processes and suggesting remedies. Meanwhile, in short, if the dispute is resolved, remove the dispute tag. If it is not resolved, continue to discuss it on the article's talk page. We'll continue to rely on this traditional process until we get the senior consultant's report. --Tagishsimon (talk)
As a Sr. Software Executive, PS. You need to hire a Sr. consultant who can ...- are you looking for a job? I agree, though, the number of pages you need to read through to even gain a vague grasp of Wikimarkup and etiquette is horrendous. EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 15:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your patience. I would like to write two articles that are very important to one I've just finished (Virtual Inheritance). As I do so I will track, formalize, stratify and document the processes.

I can submit the process analysis for what it is worth. I will try to adapt the process to the current WikiPedia culture with the only change being for fast process automation.

I'll submit the process architecture (free of charge :-) to any admin/editor who is interested.

WikiPedia has been a excellent reference (for computer stuff) that I feel privileged to contribute.

I still don't know how to 'remove the dispute tag' but I'll try to see if there is something simple I missed.

Thanks again for your help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) . (I assume it was Shawn wiki. EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 15:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC))

If the dispute is resolved you just need to edit the page and remove the text that says {{dubious}} at the top of the article and then click save. Road Wizard 15:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I tested that out and removed the tag (in test). Contacted all in dispute and if resolved will remove tag in a few days. Thanks so much for your help :-)

Ties in Quidditch[edit]

What happens at the end of a game of Quidditch if the two teams have equal numbers of points? Does the game end as a tie, or is there an elimination round or something? I couldn't find this at Rules of Quidditch. Thanks! -- Creidieki 16:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

This question is right up there with trying to determine the proper Kennel Club breeding papers of a cartoon dog. --Zeizmic 16:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
What happens then is that either that the video game you are playing malfunctions and the console explodes, or you wake up from your dream. Russian F 16:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

There is no indication in any of the books either way. Forgive me for Criticizing Harry Potter, but the fact that there are many oversights like this shows that J. K. Rowling lacked foresight in making the books. There aren't any oversights like this in any of Tolkien's works. Jon513 18:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It might have to do something with the fact that Tolkien spent more than TWENTY years writting them, whereas Rowling wrote hers much quicker. Flamarande 18:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Moreover if you think there aren't any oversights in Tolkein's books, then you have some strange faith in a mere human - faith that Tolkein himself, a Christian, would be very surprised to see. (For example, how is everyone in this entire universe/world/whatever thingy so devoid of sexuality? What about reproduction? And if that's too subjective for you, how come there are anachronisms in terms of the hobbits originally being based on an ideal pastoral England: that is, why do/did they smoke pipes and so on?) In addition, JK Rowling recently said that she spent 30 minutes thinking up the rules of Quidditch: clearly, there are things she didn't think of. Ties, of course, but why would anyone ever really catch the Snitch if they're down more than 150 points? And isn't 150 points waaay too many? But really - these are such trivial "errors." In what way do they even remotely matter? zafiroblue05 | Talk 21:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Interesting question, and one I would like to see put to J.K. Rowling in the next interview she does (instead of the boring repeated ones). For one, the team that catches the Golden Snitch would have to play a lousy game to tie after getting 150 points, but I expect either they use some kind of penalty system or they declare the team that caught the snitch the winner because it's so hard to do, but I can't be sure. Did you read Quidditch Through the Ages? - Mgm|(talk) 18:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, there are no shortage of things that are never explained in Tolkien, Rowling, or any other fantasy or sci-fi or indeed any fiction you care to name. The books would be never ending if they tried to explain everything. You could spend your life asking hypothetical questions about hypothetical situations, but in the end they are fictional. Perhaps we need a fictional reference desk where this sort of thing could be hammered out indefinitely.--Shantavira 19:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest a fiction template that says something like: "This subject is completely fictional. It doesn't exist. Someone just made it up. It exists only in their head."--Shantavira 19:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • To answer the original question, yes, the match can end as a tie. It's mentioned in Quidditch Through the Ages that the Patonga Proudsticks team tied with the Montrose Magpies in 1986, to the astonishment of the professional Quidditch world. See List_of_Quidditch_teams#African_teams --RiseRover|talk 19:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Given that it seems to be based (at least in terms of its place in British culture) on soccer, it probably goes to extra time with some sort of one vs one shootout afterwards if the scores are still tied. Grutness...wha? 03:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

but how can you have extra time when there is no limit on the length of 'normal' time? --Alex.dsch 09:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Link problem[edit]

When I answered a question in the Humanities section of the referance desk earlier, I tried to put a link to Category:Wikipedians in the Dominican Republic but it (Wikipedia) wouldn't let me. It just showed up blank. Example: Category:Wikipedians in the Dominican Republic

See? It is blank. Russian F 16:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

And then this box down here shows up. How do I make that go away?

You preface prefix the category with a colon, as in [[:Category:stuff]]. I've adjusted your category link to match (the same is true for referencing without displaying an image) — Lomn | Talk 17:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Too much computer jargon for me. Is a colon a preliminary or introductory statement ? I'd say prefix. --DLL 18:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, prefix is more correct. — Lomn | Talk 18:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Russian F 18:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)



What drug are you talking about? Iolakana|t 17:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the poster is referring to Tricylic. Please do not type all in capital letters- it makes your posts more difficult to read! EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 17:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
...says the guy with the all-caps sig.... — Lomn | Talk 18:09, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Indeed... -- Миборовский 18:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
It's irony...or maybe it's a signature in disguise. EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 22:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
So... How do you know if a character is upper or lower case in Cyrillic? Iolakana|t 20:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Try Cyrillic alphabet? -- Миборовский 02:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Ohh, ok. Tricyclic antidepressants. Iolakana|t 17:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
After edit conflict:
Tricyclics#Example_compounds seems to list a few. DirkvdM 18:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
No, I can't here you...I was too busy suitly emphazi'ing other things. ;) EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 22:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, ok. Point taken. Loomis made a typo. Mistake corrected. I just hope this doesn't wind up being yet another running RefDesk joke. Loomis 11:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

StuRat cheers for Loomis...Hear, Here ! :-) StuRat 02:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
However, the answer to your question is "almost certainly not". You'd need a prescription for a doctor for any medicine containing these. --Robert Merkel 23:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Importing alcohol to the US from EU[edit]

How many bottles of alcohol am I allowed to bring into the US for personal use? Gardar Rurak 19:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

See the "Know Before You Go" section of the Customs & Border Protection website; the "types of exemptions" link is probably the most relevant. — Lomn | Talk 20:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Skin colour[edit]

Hi there,

When I was playing Backyard Basketball 2004, I was customizing a player and the first thing was skin colour. The colours were pale, peach, dark brown, medium brown and light brown. Is there such thing as pale colour skin and medium brown? If there is, show me a picture of a person who has this skin colour.


I'm not sure what you mean. "Pale" is white and "medium brown" is...medium brown. --mboverload@ 20:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Look out in the streets/town and you'll see plenty of people who are pale/medium brown. ._. --Proficient 22:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I haven't got a clue what this is about, but I'm intrigued. Maybe we need a customise article. DirkvdM 06:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

They're talking about a computer game. The word 'customise' would encompass too many different topics to be of much use in this situation. --[[User:Username132|Username132 ([[User talk:Username132|talk]]) {{GBR}}{{NED}}]] 00:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


Hi there,

Recently, I brought a t-shirt and a tank-top in different colours and the tag inside of the t-shirt says Nevada. I was wondering if the company "Nevada" has a website, so I can buy their products online.

I had a quick look on Goolge but nothing looks that hopeful- they're mostly just T-shirts about Nevada. EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 23:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Using a match for getting rid of odors in a bathroom[edit]

This has always puzzled me, maybe it doesn't even exist. I have seen multiple references to using a match in the bathroom when it smells. Am I interpreting this wrong? If it is done, why? -- 20:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

To "mask" the smell with a hopefully more powerful, more pleasant smell, such as the smell of wood/paper burning. For some it works, for others it doesn't. Loomis 21:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the "theory" is that it would ignite the methane and thus break it down into water vapor and carbon dioxide. It won't, of course, since you would need a higher concentration of methane for it to be flammable. StuRat 22:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
MythBusters (season 3) covered this. Evidently the match smoke hides the smell.

Stu, I really doubt that the whole idea would be to cause a minor explosion in the bathroom. It's simply about attempting to "masking" the smell with the hopefully more powerful smell of the match smoke. Loomis 01:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone seriously thought it would ignite the methane, it's just a joke based on an exaggeration...just like "she's so fat she has 3 smaller fat women orbit her" is an exaggeration based joke. StuRat 01:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

it does actually work. you have to strike the match and then blow it out as soon as the initial ignition has occured (ie before it starts to burn the match stick). it's that smell which will be more pleasant (and hopefully mask) the odour of the waste. sometimes it might take 2 matches (and my personal record is 3!)

Difference between WuShu and Kung Fu[edit]

I been reading alot about WuShu and Kung Fu, but I can find any difference between the two martial arts. What is the difference?

Thanks for you time and help.

Have you checked WuShu and Kung Fu? Emmett5 22:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Combined salaries of World Cup players.[edit]

If you were to add up all the yearly wages of every player at the World Cup, what would the total be? Furthermore, what would this total be as a percentage of Togo's GDP? I think £1.3 billion and 4%, my friend £1 billion and 2.5%... Richard Bladen 21:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the Togo article, its GDP for the year 2005 was estimated to be $8.948 billion. --Kjoonlee 04:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleted articles[edit]

Is there any possible way to access a deleted article?
Russian F 22:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Administrators are able to view deleted articles. Which article do you need to see? If it was deleted for being non-notable or nonsense, I'll be happy to tell you what was in it. Warofdreams talk 00:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
No, that's ok, I just wanted to read some articles, though this is one of those things that makes me want to become an admin. :) Russian F 00:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Pain in the neck, isn't it? You can always try looking for the article on one of the many Wikipedia mirrors. --Bonalaw 11:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Isn't that a really strong reason not to allow someone to become an admin? Notinasnaid 08:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's Stunted Growth![edit]

in the wikipedia page of wikipedia there is a graph showing the growth of the articles but there is a stop at 100000 articles is that an error was it feliberately stopped was the article warehouse full? and it took time to find another warehouse to rent?

They stopped counting. the exponential growth that was showed up to the 1000000 mark can be assumed to have continued. Philc TECI 00:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Why stop counting? I assume it's a totally automated process. Not like there's someone tallying "one article, two articles, ... threehundredfiftytwothousandsixhundredandtwentyfour art ... what's that love? Yes, I'll put out the garbage in a sec ... now where was I ... oh dear, ... one article, two articles ....". DirkvdM 06:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
There is an automated article count (currently over 1.2 million), but Image:Wikipedia growth.png is not automatically updated. There is some less-than-informative discussion of this at Image talk:Wikipedia growth.png. —Caesura(t) 02:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

June 27[edit]

Irony MARK 3[edit]

i dont think irony is an all together properly define concept reading the wiki entry i find ithe definitions are fuzzy and unclear should the word be disbanded?

also: in A.Moreset's song ironic: "10000 spoons when all u need is a knife" she's just being picky! a spoon is just a knife with more features! with ten thousand spoons who could possibly need a knife?

  • You can't disband words last time I checked, here on Wikipedia or elsewhere. "disband" is something you do with a group. Anyway, I don't see anything particularly wrong with the definition, although it does mean reading up on other definitions for those not well-versed in linguistics. Perhaps you could ask people at Talk:Irony for a definition that's aimed more at layman. Anyway, a lacking definition is not a reason to delete, or remove an entry from Wikipedia. - 07:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Have you ever tried cutting steak with a spoon? Battle Ape 07:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe that Australian guy in that one Simpsons episode has. "You call that a knife? This is a knife!" "No it's not. That's a spoon." JIP | Talk 11:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Discussions about the irony article shuold be undertaken on talk:Irony, not here. --Tagishsimon (talk)
But isnt it ironic that that discussion is here instead of on the talk page? Mayor Westfall 03:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Two Boys[edit]

Who were those two young boys (I think they lived somewhere in Asia) that were thought to have supernatural powers? I remember seeing them on the news a few years ago. 04:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure what two boys you are thinking of, but there are many children who believe they have supernatural powers. For example, "More than two million teens say they have communicated with a dead person (10%). Nearly two million youth (10%) claim they have psychic powers" [19]
So, if 1 in 10 teens are psychic, I can only assume that 1 in every 10 teens win the lottery each day ? StuRat 01:47, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, if only teens could play the lottery -- BUSY 15:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

(It would help if you specified the type of power they are supposed to have. - 07:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Johnny and Luther Htoo, are you talking about them? Evilbu 10:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. 17:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

--Zelda Joseph 03:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)Zelda Josepy--Zelda Joseph 03:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)--Zelda Joseph 03:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)--Zelda Joseph 03:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)Zelda§== being deleted ==

1. Can anyone explain to me why a contribution I wrote to the discussion on deleting accounts (I opposed) would have been deleted. I wrote it 2 or 3 days ago.

2. I understand the deletion of the comments I added to the page on pketrokeum politics, because I was asking for more info pon the topic, rather than providing any. However, I would appreciate learning where I COULD seek such additional info.

Thanks for any reply.

Zelda Joseph —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zelda Joseph (talkcontribs) .

We have been having problems with Firefox users with the Google Toolbar. When they switch tab, the bottom part of the edit gets deleted, so when they save it, it's all gone. I'm not sure if that's what happened, just throwing out an idea. --mboverload@ 05:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It would help if you gave the title of the page edited for which your contribution was deleted and signing with ~~~~ would also help so we can check for your name in the article's history. Deletion of accounts is simply not possible. It doesn't fit the GFDL Wikipedia is licensed under. - 07:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I see only two contributions from your account. The first, to petroleum politics, was to ask a question which would have been appropriately asked at talk:petroleum politics rather than in the article. The second is this posting to the reference desk.
If you posted to the Wikipedia talk:Delete unused username after 90 days, you must have done so while not logged into your account. I have looked at the posts deleted from that page, and none of them were yours. If you weren't logged in, then your post may have been removed because anonymous people can't vote on such pages, but it will still appear in the history. However, I have no way of knowing which anonymous post may have been yours.
This is not a suitable question for the Reference desk, since it is about editing on Wikipedia. Please use the Wikipedia:Help desk for any follow up questions.-gadfium 09:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Beach Blanket Babylon[edit]

Recently, there was an edit to this article, saying that everything except for one sentence was copyright infringement. The article doesn't make any sense now... why have it if anything about it is copyright infringement?

  • Articles can be fixed so they're no longer a copyright infringement, but this no longer appears to be about the subject initially written about. I'll see if I can get this rewritten into a non-copyvio version. - Mgm|(talk) 11:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I have restored Beach Blanket Babylon to its pre-copyvio state. Road Wizard 11:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Link to my first article not working[edit]

Is there a way to generate a link when you are at a certain web page? Then that link could be used in editing articles (and, it would work :-).

I just created an article...

Implementation Inheritance (Object-oriented programming)

I thought the link would be...

It did not work and tryed to vary the link but that did not work.

The URL to the article is...

Am I missing something??? Did I setup the article incorrectly???


PS. I'm still pretty new at this. Thanks for any help.

The question is, would we trust someone who cannot reverse engineer a link to advise us on process? Implementation Inheritance (object-oriented programming). Links are case specific. The article should probably be moved to Implementation Inheritance or probably better Implementation inheritance (note case again). See Wikipedia:Naming conventions --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate the work you're doing Shawn, but the questions you've been asking would be more appropriate to the Help Desk. --LarryMac 13:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

internation/internet question[edit]

What governs things on the internet that are certainly if I went over to Angola and libaled someone in America, what juristriction would that fall under? Also some places have different age-of-consent laws, such that a picture of a 17 year old girl is illegal in america, but might not be in some other conuntry. Is there any type of international laws that govern the internet on illegal content, or content that is illegal in some countries? How are companies like Iran & china going to keep their people from accessing illegal information on the internet? Mayor Westfall 14:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

You could take a look at INTERPOL, but it really depends on the willingness of the country to cooperate! EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 15:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
In addition, some countries' governments are placing restrictions on the ability of ISPs in those countries to operate freely. So the government is able to control people's access to certain information in that way. See, for example, Internet_censorship_in_mainland_China. --Richardrj 15:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


I am looking at going to Jay Cooke State Park in Thompson, MN. I'm wondering if you know where the best place to stay would be! For my husband and I? Thanks 14:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It really depends on your budget, but [20] looks reasonable. Alternatively, try here for a list of hotels and motels in the area. EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME 15:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

You should try Orbitz if you want to pick your hotel. If you're trying to stay cheaply, you might want to check out priceline Mayor Westfall 15:08, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

At this time of year finding somewhere to stay at or near an MN state park is most likely impossible. Russian F 02:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Song Title[edit]

Come What May. Does anyone know who else sings this song, besides the one in Moulin Rouge!

It appears to be an original song written for the movie by David Baerwald, or so Moulin Rouge! would suggest... 17:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Interesting fact: "Come What May" was ineligible for nomination for the Academy Award for Best Song because it was actually written (but not used) for Baz Luhrmann's previous film William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet. --Canley 03:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Another interesting fact, David Baerwald has done solo albums and used to be in a band called David and David (who had a very minor hit called "Welcome to the Boomtown", IIRC) - it is possible he has released the song himself. Grutness...wha? 03:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

most effective way to complain to UPS?[edit]

Oh, great and wise Wikipedia,

I had a baaaaad experience with UPS pickup last Friday evening. What is the best way to complain about this - I don't want to use their automated online email message system which will surely either automatically ignore me or feed me an automatic standard form letter. Is there a direct line or email address for their VP of Customer Relations or something?

here are some choice moments (not exact words obviously but as remembered) from my experience:

1. Me: I have a package which needs to be delivered Saturday morning, and I was told it'd be picked up by 7:45pm at the latest; I called at 7:45 and was told the driver was stuck in traffic. it's now 8:25pm, whats happening?
Operator: Our records show that the package was picked up at 7:46.
Me: whaaat???? but the package is still in my hands in front of me!! This package NEEDS to be deliveredt o my boss Saturday morning!
Operator: Well, we can send the driver back to you on Monday morning.
Me: what?? no!
Operator: Um, let me connect you to someone else
(operator places me on hold and never gets back to me; after 35 mins I hang up - in the meantime, I'm trying another operator on another line)
2. Second operator just won't believe me no matter how I explain the package is still in my hands because its says on the computer screen that its been picked up. This is a very pointless conversation. I try a third operator.
3.Me: So I have a package which was supposed to be picked up by 7:45pm at the latest and its now over an hour later and noones showed up or called me.
Operator: Sir, it's still 7:50, which means that the driver still has 10 minutes to pick the package up.
Me: Um, what (I do a double take of my computer clock). Uh, my clock has 8:50.
Operator: Well, I don't live in New York City.
Me: I assume UPS drivers who pick up packages in New York City are working on New York time?
Operator: Let me connect you to someone else.
4. Eventually, at about 9:05pm, I get connected to a competent operator who tells me the most she can do is leave an "urgent" phone message with the local depot who she says will "maybe" call me within an hour or so. I decide instead to run all the way over to the nearest UPS store through Manhattan traffic and rain and get there 5 minutes before closing time. The depot leaves a voicemail on my office phone at about 10:35pm.
So ends my tale of UPS woe. Bwithh 15:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
The most effective way to complain is to switch to a competent delivery service, then send UPS the above description as why you are switching services and recommending that all your friends and coworkers do the same. StuRat 16:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Next time, you should use another parcel service, like FedEx. To complain, I would write a formal letter to the head office; I have done many times and have never gotten a bad response nor no response. I would write a letter to them. Iolakana|t 17:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
In the meantime, if you don't use their "automated online email message system," then you are guaranteed not to get a response from that avenue. You should cover all your bases and do that first. If they don't respond or respond poorly, that's additional data you can put in your letter to the head office. --LarryMac 17:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

At least he has a choice. I was planning to order from Tiger Direct. UPS (and that's all they use) wanted $99.00 Canadian to ship a SD card. I now have a 7 lb parcel that cost $99.00 Candadian (they like that number) sitting in Edmonton, Alberta. It took 4 days to go from Warwick, Rhode Island (via, Windsor Locks, Connecticut & Louisville, Kentucky) to Calgary, Alberta. A distance of 2,100 miles followed by almost 36 hours to go from Calgary to Edmonton a distance of 176 miles. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 22:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Bank Account[edit]

I am 16 years old, and looking to change bank account. I have about £1000 to put into the account. I would like to access it on the web, a very competitive interest rate, and a cash card that allows me to withdraw money from cash machines, and also spend money online. Many thanks, -- 16:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Where do you live? Your local country will basically determine what banks are available and easiest for you to use. --Maelwys 17:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I live in England. I'm looking into the Halifax Web Saver, with the cash card. Does anyone know if you can use the cash card to pay for things online? Many thanks, -- 17:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Try egg, or HSBC (4.75%). If the card is debit/credit card, yes you can use it to buy stuff on the internet. If it is just a bank card that is not debit/credit, then no. Iolakana|t 17:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
4.75% sounds good! May I ask what account that is for? Do you have a link to the right section of the HSBC website? I can't find a 4.75% rate with what I was looking for. -- 17:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I like First Direct - they don't have branches, so everything is done over the phone or the net. And yes, you get a cash/debit card as well. --Richardrj 18:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I know this will sound nitpicking, but anyway, the question asks for advice about opening an online bank account that will be accessible on the web. I have an online account with the Royal Bank of Scotland (who are well represented in England) and use it frequently to transfer money between various higher interest accounts (online only, no cheque book - no debit or credit card - and certainly no OD facility) and my main current account (which does not pay anything like a decent rate of interest). So I keep just enough in the current account so as not to be OD; and then transfer cash into that account before I go to the hole in the wall to make a withdrawal. But my mother-in-law genuinely thinks online banking means I am able to somehow take money out of my PC/Printer.

why the revert?[edit]

maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I think

is a generally fair way to ask the question, and the answer I was looking for is about maybe constitutional law, the history. I can't readily find (for example in constitutional law) a watershed after which it was okay to interpret "no law" as "no law except", etc. There wasn't a reason given for the revert. Can someone reinsert it?

Your question got caught (apparently) by an automated bot, not a human editor. At a guess, the 30-plus consecutive question marks probably triggered a flag as a hallmark of vandalous edits. You're right, though, that there's no problem with the question; I'm inserting it below. — Lomn | Talk 17:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

"congress shall make no law" means NO law? not one?[edit]

I am very much for gun control, but the second ammendment seems to say:

I realize this might sound like a troll, but can I be for the U.S. Constitution including its amendments (as the unrepealed ammendment above) while being AGAINST the words "shall not be infringed." as it reads? Basically, I would very much like the second amendment to read differently, but in the absence of 2/3 of congress doing so, am I against the U.S. constitution if I am okay with congress making laws against this sentence? (For example, adding a word before "infringed" such as "materially", or afterwards, such as "except...").

Secondly, my title quotes the words "congress shall make no law" but SURELY it doesn't MEAN "no law"....There are plenty of federal laws "respecting an establishment of religion", etc. The amendment in full:

[ This is my source: ]

Now, surely we don't mean "no law". So why weren't the words "no law" changed, when they're not what is meant? Why didn't congress change those words, since they don't belong there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Basically, the country has interpreted the U.S. Constitution as a living document; that is, one subject to flexibility and interpretation. As a result, current interpretation is that Congress can restrict dangerous inciting speech (such as yelling "Fire!" in a crowded room when there isn't actually a fire) or particularly powerful firearms without infringing on the fundamental rights guaranteed. As a result, you can absolutely be for the Constitution at large while being opposed to particular passages, interpretations, or omissions, and you're free to voice said positions as per the free speech guarantee.
As for why "no law" wasn't changed: that's a trickier question. Here are some quick thoughts:
  1. It's not necessary per the flexibility noted above.
  2. Removing them may be deleterious (as a sort of slippery-slope thing).
  3. It's a major hassle.
Hope this provides some thinking points. — Lomn | Talk 17:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Good answers! Let's focus on the phrase "why 'no law' wasn't changed." Did the Supreme Court at one point essentially say "no law" does not mean "no law". or did they just interpret the second half of the sentence? ("respecting x" etc) In which decision can I read about this change in interpretation?

Basically the distinction is:

  • Constitution: "Congress shall never laugh".
  • [Congress giggles].
  • Supreme court's decision on constitutionality of above:
A: That was unconstitutional.
B: "Shall never" doesn't mean "shall never".
C: That wasn't a laugh.

Which one of these applies to the sentences from the Constitution I'm curious about? (I guess you could have D none of the above, which to me means "hand-waving" [ie vagueness] but maybe I'm making a false dichotomy and there are possibilities I'm not considering). 18:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

B is probably the most correct choice, with regard to things like gun control. One reason for the need for flexibility is where the requirements start to conflict. If you assume that fully automatic rifles serve primarily to hurt people (rather than, say, sport hunting), then "keep and bear arms" conflicts with the mandate to "promote the general welfare". Ditto for free speech and inciting a riot. Consequently, the interpretation has been one of the spirit, rather than the letter, of the Constitution. My personal guess as to why "no law" and related haven't been removed is the "slippery slope" bit ("shall pass only a reasonable number of laws"?) combined with a reluctance to start naming specifics to avoid creating loopholes.
You might be interested in checking List of United States Supreme Court cases and related lists for relevant cases. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire looks like it might be of particular interest to you. — Lomn | Talk 20:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I really don't think this is the correct forum to discuss this. It has the potential to turn ugly with people from both sides starting to attack the other. And I understand that Lomn is asking a valid question and not trolling. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know what you're so worried about, Cambridge, so far the discussion had been a completely civil one, and knowing wiki editors, I doubt it would turn ugly.
As for my opinion on the subject, first I should say that despite, for the most part, holding right wing views, I part company entirely with the right when it comes to guns. In fact, by American standards I would be considered a radical left-winger on this subject. Basically, guns are responsible for approximately 35,000 American deaths each year. That means that every two years, more Americans are killed by guns than during the entire Vietnam War. If you compare that to gun-related deaths in countries with heavily restrictive gun laws such as the UK, the number of gun-related deaths, (as well as homicides in general) is rather dramatically reduced. Is sport-hunting really that important a pastime to rationalize the death of 35,000 Americans each year? The second Amendment should be repealed, outright, and guns should be completely banned (with the exception of the police and the military). Its rationale is obsolete, as the necessity for ordinary Americans to bear arms to fend off King George's troops no longer exists. Note that it's the only amendment that actually bothers to begin with a rationale: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state...".
As for the problem that the Bill of Rights is phrased in absolutist terms "Congress shall pass NO law"...well, the framers of the US Constitution were doing their best to put together the first "Bill of Rights" ever to exist. They can't be blamed for overlooking certain problems that would arise later on. In my country, however, we've had the benefit of the US experience, and as a result we've included in our equivalent to the US Bill of Rights, an inevitably necessary limitations clause to our constitutionally guaranteed rights. Loomis 00:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Go fire a gun and you'll be a convert. Guns are awesome. Seriously. --

mboverload@ 01:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure guns are awesome. I'm sure if I ever fired one I'd certainly love the experience. It must be one hell of an adrenaline rush. Nonetheless it's not worth the death of 35,000 Americans a year. Do you disagree? Loomis 00:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Similarly, I love to fish. However if somehow it was indirectly responsible for 35,000 human deaths per year I'd gladly find anothere hobby. Loomis 00:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Well technically it was not the first "Bill of Rights" ever to exist as Magna Carta and the Charter of Liberties preceeded it by some margin, however your point is still valid. Road Wizard 02:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Not to mention the Bill of Rights 1689 AllanHainey 14:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Where can I get a copy of Mariano Rivera picture?[edit]

The article on New York Yankees pitcher Mariano Rivera also has a color picture of him. I would appreciate it if someone could tell me the source of this picture and where I might be able to acquire a copy. Any help will be appreciated.

Hi, all the pictures on Wikipedia (should) have source information on a separete page, just click on the image and you will see it. Image:Rivera2.jpg was submitted by User:Googie man and he seems to be the copyright holder, so you should ask him. --Eivindt@c 22:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Once you click on the image you can pick the text "Download high resolution version (612x1000, 223 KB)" on the image page to download the pic directly. StuRat 01:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

June 28[edit]

MPH and KPH vs. HPM MPK[edit]

So how come we use miles/km per hour and not hours per mile/km? Just a random thought from me... Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 01:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

It relates to the fact that speed equals distance divided by time (s = d/t or s = miles/hour). I am not sure what time divide by distance is a calculation of (t/d = ?). Road Wizard 02:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Depending on what one is talking about, different units make sense (either mathematically or by subjective feeling). For things like speed, "faster" seems like it should be a higher number, so distance/time gives the correct direction. OTOH, the reciprocal usage, time/distance, actually is commonly used in sporting events. Again, it's more conveinent to measure time for each contestant and use a distance of "one race". DMacks 02:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Male Orgasm[edit]

Are there any vitamins or anything else that would increase the pleasure in male orgasms? The precedning unsigned comment was left by someone other than me, can someone find out who and sign for them?

Having a partner. I hear Mayor Westfall 03:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Fleshlight is as good as it gets I hear. --mboverload@ 04:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Pleasure is something entirely subjective. What turns one person on, might not be at all pleasuring for someone else. - Mgm|(talk) 07:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Some seem to think that controlling and restricting ejaculation, separating it from orgasm, can give males the ability to have extended or multiple orgasms. This can be acheived by strengthening the Pubococcygeus muscle though excercise. Together with mental concentration, this enables the male to achieve orgasmic pleasure without the post-ejaculatory refractory period. Of course others believe that just doing anything new and/or crazy will bring more pleasure. --Flippant 15:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

World Cup Record[edit]

Does anyone know the record for the most points scored in a World Cup game? Thx--Summonmaster13 02:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Funnily enough, we have an article on FIFA World Cup records. --Robert Merkel 03:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
We have an article on everything. ...literally everything Mayor Westfall 03:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, ISTR that Australia holds the record for a qualifying tournament (they beat American Samoa something like 31-0). In a finals tournament El Salvador got done 10-1 by someone like Argentina in the 1980s, and for the final itself, I think there was a 5-2 (Brazil vs Sweden 1958?). Those are all off the top of my headm, though, so you might want to check the link above. Note too that those are all goals per game - only up to three points are awarded in each game. Grutness...wha? 03:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

<Pedant mode on> Points are what you get as a result of how well team performs, currently three points for a win. If you score more goals than he opposition, you win. <Pedant mode off> -- 13:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

World (future economies of India and China)[edit]

There is a lot of talk about India & China dominating the world economy in the next 100 yrs. Is this pretty much accepted by all economomist, or is it widely disputed? I think that American companies, already established, would have a competitive edge copmanies in other nations. I also feel that since america is more free-market based with respect to business that our economy is more efficent....and yet it seems like we are losing ground economically speaking. What will the end result be? Will wealth be more evenenly distributed across the world as we mover further into gobaliation? Mayor Westfall 03:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There's only so many call centers to go around =D --mboverload@ 04:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Contrary to popular belief, the U.S.'s market isn't all that free. Government spends a lot of money on contractors, for example, subsidies for farmers (corn, eg is subsidized so much that farmers grow it in place of things that would normally be more profitable), tariffs against things that lobbyist groups say are bad for them (steel and softwood lumber from Canada). In addition, the U.S. tends to run a trade deficit, which is why it gets the money to do some of the things it does, but they're going to have to pay back the money sometime.
Being entrenched does help sometimes. But Microsoft, Wal-Mart, etc, those companies were actually the underdogs at one point in time, and they gained competitive advantages over their larger adversaries. Also, there are Chinese and Indian rich people: Li Ka Shing is the 10th richest man in the world, and Lakshmi Mittal is the 5th richest man in the world. In fact, even though the US has the most people in the top 10, it's still not a majority (3 out of 10).
Average GDP is a different animal than wealth distribution, and I can tell you that wealth distribution is going to get worse, not better, at least on an individual scale. Rich people tend to have competitive advantages because they're rich (access to education, to other rich investors, etc). --ColourBurst 04:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Barring war between India and Pakistan, I do see the economy of India steadily improving, although I'm not sure about it surpassing the US. China, however, has some severe problems to deal with:

1) Demographics problem. Their "one family, one child" policy, started in the 1970's, has led to their current economic growth, by allowing limited economic resources to be focused on fewer children. However, around 2040-2050 this will lead to a problem of not enough working age Chinese to support the elderly. This is similar to the Social Security problem in the US, but will be much more severe, as the demographics are far worse.

2) Pollution. Rapid industrialization brings with it rapid increases in pollution levels, especially in a nondemocratic system where the people's needs are ignored by the government. Initially pollution is only an annoyance, but builds to a level where it causes widespread sickness and reduces productivity. Land and water sources affected by pollution are also made unusable.

3) Abuse of the poor. Chinese government officials, bribed by rich businessmen, frequently just steal land from the poor for some industrial development. This social injustice will eventually lead to, of all things, a communist revolution !

4) Authoritarianism. The nondemocratic nature of the Chinese government will be viewed as an increasing threat as their wealth, power and influence grows, leading other nations to restrict trade.

5) Unfair trade policies. China will eventually be forced to even the playing field, for example, by letting the Yuan float instead of holding it artificially low. The US and EU will be increasingly be more likely to impose trade sanctions on China until trade practices are made fair.

6) Increased wages. Due to the demographics issue and increasing wealth, Chinese workers will eventually no longer be willing to work for such low wages, removing China's competitive advantage. This has already happened in other places, like Japan, which once had low pay rates, but no longer does, due to the success of their economy.

StuRat 11:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding a more even distribution of wealth, that's the opposite of what I see happening. In countries like China where wealth will increase, it will largely be in the hands of a few rich people and government officials, with only a small middle class, and a massive, increasingly poor, uneducated class at the bottom. Many other countries, like those in Africa, will continue to slide further into poverty as corrupt dictators, like Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, destroy the economies of their countries and steal what little wealth remains. The Middle East, on the other hand, will run out of oil. Not having developed any other economic base, their economies will soon collapse, followed by civil war. Other Muslim nations may continue to suffer from a lack of tourism and foreign investment due to continued terrorism. South American economies may continue to grow, although a new trend towards socialism there may limit growth relative to capitalism. This socialism will ensure a more even distribution of the wealth they do have, however. StuRat 12:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well answered. Although it is safe to say that corruption is rampant in India as well.--John Brown 10:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

1941 pontiac coupe[edit]

Does anyone know how many 1941 pontiac streamliner 2 door coupes were manufactured? thank you, Pollock-- 04:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Heaven,Hell, and Religious Insecurity[edit]

Chritians believe that a person will go to Hell after he or she dies simply by not being a Christian.The reason why they believe this is a bit complicated to explain here.It's to do with the fact that all humans are sinful and need to be saved from their sins.So if you're not a Christian, BEWARE of the possibility that it might be the one true religion!!

And even if the chance of Christianity turning out to be true is relatively low, because of for example evidence for evolution, with our eternity at stake, I think we should pay attention to this seriously and find out if it is true, just in case it is.

Anyway, I have a question to ask you: How much and how many percent of non-Christians in the world, really know that this is what Christians really believe about who will go to Hell after they die?

If you're NOT a Christian, then I have more questions to ask you:

1.Did you know before that this is actually what Christians actually believe about who will go to hell?

2.What do you think about this, and that this being their belief on afterlife?

3.Christians claim because Jesus died for our sins and took our place, God could be just without punishing us.Do you think this is really just?

4.Are there any other religions in the world that also claim that they are the only way, or the one of the only ways, to go to heaven,avoid going to hell, or get saved?If so, then we're in big trouble. 05:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought I would point out that not all Christians believe that all non-Christians will go to hell. Given the fractured nature of the many Christian denominations the variations on this belief are quite significant. I remember reading one of the Gospels (or possibly Acts) in a religous studies class at school and spotting a verse that said something about cursing the Holy Spirit is the only act that God will not forgive. If that is a correct interpretation, then non-Christians would be safe from hell as long as they do not curse the holy spirit. But as I said though there are many interpretations and it might even be that one of the other religions is right and Christianity is wrong. Road Wizard 05:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Way, way off. If all you had to do was not blaspheme the Holy Spirit and that meant you could go to heaven, why would you be a Christian? It would mean, 'be as evil as you like, and you'll be saved anyway'!. This is not what the Bible teaches. BenC7 07:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
We should note that you are essentially restating Pascal's Wager. My most hated of all wagers! Adam Bishop 06:02, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
So everyone who died before Jesus was around went straight to hell. Nice god.
The Bible does not say or imply this in any way. It names people who lived and died before Jesus who are in heaven. BenC7 07:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
There's a variation to that. If God is omnipotent and allknowing, the creator and ultimate judge, then he made me, a non-christian, knowing perfectly well what he was doing and then after I die sends me to hell for something he did. DirkvdM 09:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
The Bible makes it clear on numerous occassions that God sends people to hell for decisions they make, not decisions that he makes.BenC7 07:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

such a strict literal interpretation of the bible is not followed by most christians, further more, if one looks a Jane beliefs, (they willn not kill an insect) and you look at christians like the crusaders, who is more like ly to go to heaven. further more, if one takes the bible so literally then one could say: you need to be without sin to get into heaven. the only person who can be totally without sin is jesus, therefore we will all go to hell, sio why bother being a good person. and in conclusion, Evangelicals Reallly really really piss me off. 09:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

This question is straying into prostelytising - the "If you're NOT a Christian, then I have more questions to ask you": section. Not appropriate on the reference desk. --Tagishsimon (talk)
If you're NOT a Christian, then I have more questions to ask you:
As an atheist, I'll make an attempt to answer these Mayor Westfall 13:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
1.Did you know before that this is actually what Christians actually believe about who will go to hell?
Yes, because they tell me everywhere. Even on the Wikipedia reference desk.Mayor Westfall 13:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
2.What do you think about this, and that this being their belief on afterlife?
I think they are silly. I don't believe in God, heaven, or hell, as I don't see any evidence for them. How do you propose we "seriously find out of these claims are true"?Mayor Westfall 13:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
3.Christians claim because Jesus died for our sins and took our place, God could be just without punishing us.Do you think this is really just?
Assuming there is a god, I wouldn't think punishing us at all for our decisions would be just. What gives him the right to do so? Just because he can? Mayor Westfall 13:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
3.Are there any other religions in the world that also claim that they are the only way, or the one of the only ways, to go to heaven,avoid going to hell, or get saved?If so, then we're in big trouble
Yes, there are other annoying religions that make the same unsupported claims, and no this doesn't mean we are in big trouble Mayor Westfall 13:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Religious insecurity is a built-up meme allowing insecurity managers to gain security for themselves. Other kinds of insecurity perform well, too. --DLL 18:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Religions that take the "believe or be damned" view include: Islam and the various sects of Christianity that hold that all other sects are Satan's creations. I think some followers of Hinduism also take this view (not the majority, though). Emmett5 20:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

What do you, especially DirkvdM, mean?God is perfect,holy,just,loving,sovereign, and infinitely wise.We're only sinful, fallible human beings.How can we, and what right do we have to, judge whether the judgements,punishments, and decisions of God are right or wrong?

Indeed. We cannot know God. So what are all those religious idiots blabbering about? DirkvdM 07:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

These religious 'idiots' are not blabbering, they're giving us a warning(or threat) from God that we need to flee to His refuge, Jesus Christ! Just like the Rich Man and the Beggar Lazarus, we all have a choice to whether take it seriously or ignore it.And they're giving it straight from the Bible: "He who believes on him (Jesus) is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."(John 3:18)

Regarding the (first) third question, the concept is that Jesus died in our place; that is, that he took the punishment for our sins (for those who believe in him). Because God is just, he cannot punish sin twice, once in Jesus and then in us. BenC7 07:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

word - puzzles[edit]

What is the name given to the following types of puzzles:

 13 S on the USF               answer  13 stripes on the united states flag
 7 D of the W                              7 days in a week
  18 H on a GC                                  18 hole golf course

also where this type of puzzle is presented as words (and diagrams) eg

      B.Sc.  B.Sc.           2 degrees below zero

garry n rees

(email address redacted) sydney nsw australia

  • Rebus?--hotclaws**==( 07:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC))
Yep. --Richardrj 07:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Ditloids seem to be very similar. --Shantavira 10:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
For the second type, see Dingbats and rebus. --Kjoonlee 11:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Does Yoga Pranayama of Swami Ramdev of India really cures all the so called incurable diseases including Cancer HIV AIDS etc.??[edit]

Does Yoga Pranayama of Swami Ramdev of India really cures all the so called incurable diseases including Cancer HIV AIDS etc., as mentioned on the website on Swami Ramdev & also on TV by Swami Ramdev?

Call me sceptical, but I doubt it. --Richardrj 08:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
verifiably, repeatedly? hardly. The world would be in an uproar it did. Just one of so many miracle healers, they are a dime a dozen. dab () 08:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
in fact, with claims like "it is your birth-right to stay disease free, healthy, slim, fit, look beautiful & younger, in complete peace of mind and get back robust health, better than your age" this website qualifies as spam pure and simple, and I've unlinked it. dab () 08:54, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
There's a guy in my hometown who sells a "miracle tea" which "cures" cancer, AIDS, etc. I'm sure every place in the world has some person who thinks they can cure that sort of thing. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 09:02, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should add a line at the top of the page, saying "Use your own brain before asking a question". DirkvdM 09:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

NOTE There was recently an article created promoting this shit, this is probably a spam question, also. --mboverload@ 09:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

He may be interested in James Randi's Million dollar challenge] Tintin (talk) 09:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I would just like to say, that anyone who spends any amount of money on this kind of shit deserves to lose their money. All of it. --mboverload@ 12:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Yoga, however, brings many benefits to one's life. The world would be in an uproar it did. Well, if someone was to practice Yoga for a somewhat extended period of time, enough to attain a spiritual enlightenment to some extent, he most probably would not get ill by tumor-like or similar deseases. Why the world is not in an uproar, is because many people are very sceptical about this, and they just do not want to except it, because it would mean that they were wrong about such things their whole life. But a true Yogi or Guru never would expose his secrets to public, let alone brag about it. I too would say that this kind of propaganda is fake.--Captain ginyu 14:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Please spam your crap elsewhere. This is the reference desk. --mboverload@ 19:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you wrote this to me, Mboverload.--Captain ginyu 00:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

moveoverload has no concept concerning that which he writes about.

We have said enough on this topic. Take your spam elsewhere. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
If you have bothered to check out I would not be so dimissive. Having grown up in India I have been more than dismmisive of these scams myself. However when your own parents and several other respected and trusted family members speak of Pranayam's benefit I really have to give it some thought. I am not convinced that it cures cancer/HIV but I know for a fact individuals who have seen vast improvements in chronic Blood pressure, heart ailments and allergies among others.

In fact on a whim I am trying some of this stuff ad hoc and it too early to say but you feel the impact. I guess I kind of have always known some of this stuff, but this guy really lays it out in simple terms, follow exactly what he says and you will feel the difference - for e.g breathing heavily in and out is too generic and does not have the necessary impact unless you do it the right way and his way appears to be the right way - sandeep

Good god - you can not be cured of AIDS by "breathing right" - However I'd find it easier to believe that someone who thinks such a thing operates without a brain.

--Charlesknight 15:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Rude people[edit]

how come there are people who are extremely RUDE?

They're jerks. I think that's pretty much the answer. --mboverload@ 09:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Sometimes they are answering really stupid questions and can't hold themselves. Flamarande 10:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the real answers have something to do with things like: suppressed anger; lack of skills in dealing with stress; a feeling of lack of control over one's own life; transference; certain medical conditions; an inappropriate response to a generalised anxiety state; or an absence of someone in their lives to really care and understand them. JackofOz 12:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
What is rude is a cultural thing. So unless you take someone's different background into consideration you're more likely to find them rude. Take Jack hereabove. He's of Oz. And unlike him (maybe he's holding back), Aussies have a tendency to say 'fuck' all the time. To them, that's normal (provided there's no lady present). To others, especially from the US, it's extremely rude. Or take me. I'm Dutch. The Dutch have a tendency to be very direct. To others, again especially folk from the US, that may give the impression that the Dutch are a very rude people (and I'm very direct even by Dutch standards, so mind my language). But to the Dutch it is very rude not to give a straight answer. This really irritated me when I was in the US. It took me some time to figure out what certain answers really meant. So often it's just a matter of cultural difference. Make allowances for that and life will be a lot more pleasant.
That said, some people are indeed just plain rude. Fuck 'm. DirkvdM 17:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. The "rudest" city in the US is considered to be New York City, which was originally settled by the Dutch as "New Amsterdam"...maybe that explains it all ? StuRat 23:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
There you go! :) DirkvdM 08:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Some Aussies do say "fuck" a lot, although it would not be considered appropriate behaviour in most situations. Those who do use the word often don't seem to give a damn about the presence of "ladies". In fact, a goodly proportion of fuck-sayers are themselves "ladies". It used to be socially tolerable for swearing to occur in certain situations, as long as you pick your company and do it discreetly (and then go to confession as soon as possible and do your penance). Nowadays you can sit on the train and hear people (men and women) down the far end of the carriage having loud conversations littered with obscenities of all kinds, and they neither know nor care who hears them. Even without the swearing, it's extremely irritating, and so unnecessarily excessive. A really horrible and backward social development, in my opinion. Such people are very much in the minority, but they're a minority it's hard to be unaware of or indifferent to. Maybe that's their point. Maybe because people feel they are rarely listened to these days, that makes them want to fight back somehow. I dunno.
  • I'm surprised about it being considered extremely rude in the U.S. - isn't that where "Sex in the City" was made. That script seemed to consist mainly of the words "fuck" and "cunt", with a few other words (like "and" and "the") sprinkled around to relieve monotony. I only ever watched it once, and switched channels in utter amazement. Maybe I caught an unrepresentative episode.
  • Back to the original question: I don't think in terms of "rude people". There are rude behaviours and acts, and there are the people who commit them. Those people are also capable of pleasant and positive behaviours. I prefer to reserve words like "rude" for judging behaviours, and make a distinction between what people do and who they are. That's not to say that people shouldn't pay the price for behaviours that don't work.
  • There is an infinite variety of rude behaviours. Walking out of a shop onto the footpath without looking to see who you might collide with and just assuming you will have "right of way", is extraordinarily rude. Being given the finger at a pedestrian crossing by a driver who was forced to slow down and let you cross, is rude. Being given a multi-million dollar package when you're sacked for incompetence in running a corporation, when the lower paid workers struggle to make ends meet, is utterly offensive.
  • Some would say that a response like "fuck 'm" is just as rude as anything they themselves said or did, which makes it not only rude but hypocritical as well. Yours was said in jest, Dirk, but mostly people say "fuck 'em" with malice aforethought. Now, that's rude. JackofOz 23:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Sex in the City is not representative of how most Americans talk. There is an even worse cable series, though, called The Sopranos. StuRat 02:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
One extreme leads to the other. Exactly because the use of certain words is appalling to most it becomes appealing to some. I also hate those comedians who are just rude for the sake of being rude. The rudeness doesn't get to me, so when you leave that out there's nothing left. Rudeness to spice up an actual joke is an entirely different matter. Alas some people don't get that. Luckily Jack does. :) DirkvdM 08:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


how is abortion seen in the muslim community?

Which muslim community? There's 1.4 billion muslims, with loads of different varieties of islam. And within each variety you have those who are more strict and others (probably the vast majority) who are more tolerant. This probably matters more than the religion. In any religion, the stricter people are, the more they will probably be against abortion. And the more they probably be willing to kill others in the name of their religion. Lovely bit of irony. DirkvdM 17:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
They simply move from supporting prenatal abortions to performing postnatal abortions. :-) StuRat 23:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
The pope even objects to abortion during conception ('conceptual abortion' ?). DirkvdM 08:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
What are you two on about? JackofOz 11:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Abortion is considered to be forbidden according to Islam after the woman has been pregnant for 2 months.Otherwise it'd be killing for a soul.

Slack Rodeo[edit]

Rodeo schedules often list "Slack". It seems to occur at times earlier than the regular rodeo and may be free.

Can someone clarify this term for me?

Thank you. 13:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)Bill Howard

According to this site, "Slack is the overflow of rodeo competitors who do not draw a slot in the main performances." --Canley 13:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I googled the term but never came up with that page. Thanks again.


  • OK, I've got a related question. Theatre programs, when listing the cast members, will sometimes describe some of the dancers as being "swing". I know it has nothing to do with "swing dancing"; but what does it mean? (And it's only related because the question made me think of it, though I like the combination of "swing" and "slack".) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
A "swing" is an understudy, in musical theatre terms. --Maelwys 10:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Especially someone who understudies multiple roles. Or sometimes someone who performs a role occasionally on a regular basis, maybe to cover an actor who cannot perform the 3pm Wednesday matinee or whatever. kmccoy (talk) 14:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

WF Economic Question 1[edit]

The US has a tremendous debt. What would happen if the US eventually defaults on the debt, and simply refuses to pay? The other nations of the world would be unable to force us to pay. I suspect that the rest of the world would try to impose economic sanctions on us, and our currency value would fall. What if the US responded to this with use or threats of use of military force? Or what if we work with some nations willing to trade with us, and isolate those that don't. We are such a big ecnonomy that most nations rely at least somewhat on us as a trading partner. Mayor Westfall 13:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

According to "United States public debt", 44% of the "public debt" is held by foreign entities, so such a default would hurt American citizens (mostly T Bill holders) more than anyone. I think most people assume it's pretty unthinkable that the US could default on this debt, I'm not really sure what would happen.. TastyCakes 14:25, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
It's not inconceivable that the U.S.A. would default on its foreign debts as they have done so once before (under Jefferson or Madison I think). Nowadays what would happen would be that the value of the U.S.A. dollar would fall through the floor. Literally no one would want to hold it; money invested in the U.S.A. would flow out; foreign exports due to be sent to the U.S.A. would be cancelled as folk would be afraid on not getting paid. All this would lead to the redenominating of international commodities as gold, oil, etc gradually become priced & traded in some currency or currency other than the U.S.A. dollar.

Also purely internal effects on the U.S.A. I would expect to see are a major stock market crash, companies & industried dependent on imports going to the wall (or having a lot harder time trading as they'd need to pay in advance in foreign currency), interest rates skyrocketing in a vain attempt to stop capital flowing out of the country, increase in inflation as all the foreign held $ are sent back to the U.S.A. and imported goods dry up.

Not likely... economic collapse is a very strong deterrent (which is why central bank heads have a lot of power, even over heads of state) and the two presidents you mention were in power before modern economic policies came into being. (I think it was Jefferson, as he seems to be rather fond of debts being cancelled with passing generations. Didn't prevent his land being sold to pay his own debts off, however.) --ColourBurst 18:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There would be other effects too but mostly I think it would be bad for the U.S.A. Your idea of intimidating or threatening militarily other nations to trade with you or support your currency would never work (depending on the increase in inflation the U.S.A. may have some bother in paying its own troops a living wage) as your military is overstreached now dealing with Iraq & Afghanistan without threatening the rest of the world. Also you state "We are such a big ecnonomy that most nations rely at least somewhat on us as a trading partner", that is true, and it is one of the things that makes the U.S.A. more vulnerable than most to the effects of welching on its debts. If Bhutan reneged on its debts it probably wouldn't have much impact as it isn't interconnected to such a great extent with the rest of the world, but if the U.S.A. tried it it would have a colossal effect. AllanHainey 15:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I also imagine that every country that owed the US money would instantly refuse to pay it back, which would be great news for much of the Third World. DJ Clayworth 16:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Most of the 3rd world does indeed default on it's debts on a regular basis. Surprisingly, when they borrow money with the promise of building an airport to improve their economy, but instead use it to build a palace for one of the dictator's mistresses, they don't seem able or willing to pay the money back afterwards. :-) StuRat 23:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

WF Economic Question 2[edit]

It seems like though "illegal imigration" may cost american jobs, it makes the economy a lot more efficent as a whole. I think I'm changing my opinion on illegal imigration as I believe it helps both the imigrant and the US. Besides, there were no anti-imigration laws when my (and most american)'s ancestors imigrated here. Does anyone have any good information/theroies on the Economic impact of allowing imigration from Mexico? I don't think introducing a 2nd language would make us more efficent as a nation, but if they were to learn english when they come here, I thikn it would be a win-win situation, and yet most people who are opposed to imigration do so out of economic concerns? Mayor Westfall

No immigration laws? Like say the Chinese Exclusion Act or the Immigration Act? Clearly cheap mexican labour helps some Americans, particularly business owners that rely on it, and hurts others, namely those that they displace or whose wages are driven down as a consequence. I'm sure there are lots of papers on the effect, I remember hearing statistics about what the econimc consequences of all hispanics going on strike, I'm sure you can find the estimated cost per day somewhere. TastyCakes 14:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
It always amuses me to hear the US saying to other countries: "Tariffs are bad, protectionism is bad, you'll be much better off with Free Trade. Wait, we're losing jobs? Quick, put up those tariffs!" DJ Clayworth 16:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Exactly this fear exists now in the Netherlands (and other Western European countries, I imagine) since the admittance of Eastern European countries to the EU ("The Polish are coming!"). Everyone can move freely across the borders within the EU labour market, but for these newcomers that is being held off for the moment for just this reason. But it seems that those countries that have already competely opened up have had positive experiences with it. Alas I don't know the details of this (I would like to make a little study of it). One observation that might be relevant here is that social security and minimum wages are much higher here (especially in the Netherlands). So if the Polish take jobs at the bottom end of the market, those displaced by them won't be struck as hard. DirkvdM 18:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

As with all free trade there are winners and loser, but the wins of the winners are always greater than the loses of the losers. The question becomes more complicated when poor people stand to lose and rich people stand to gain. Jon513 20:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

A certain level of immigration is good, provided only the "right" people are let in. This means those who are willing to work, not criminals or terrorists, and who speak the host nation's language, and are willing to integrate into the host country. Too many immigrants, or the wrong type of immigrants, on the other hand, can ruin a country, at least from the POV of the original occupants. Unrestricted permanent immigration to the US would likely change the US into a Hispanic country in a few decades, while allowing numerous Muslim terrorists in, as well. Reasonable immigration quotas should be set, and then they should be rigidly enforced. Unfortunately, many politicians refuse to take the necessary steps to do either part. StuRat 23:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, all those Mexican muslim terrorists ... DirkvdM 08:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, there is Jose Padilla, a Hispanic, Muslim terrorist, but I was referring primarily to Muslim terrorists as separate from Hispanics, but who can sneak in via an open border, especially if an illogical immigration policy leads millions to sneak into the US illegally each year, making it easier for the few terrorists to hide among their numbers. StuRat 19:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
If you don't want the US to speak Spanish as an official language, I'm afraid you're too late. The southern states have significant Latino voting blocs, and many of them are legal citizens. Fear is an emotion, not an argument. The "right" people is often an opinion, and a lot of the time it's racially based (there are many examples in US history! Eg. Californian farmers around the time of WW2 hated Japanese immigrants because they had better farming methods.) --ColourBurst 04:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
No, as long as the majority speak English, and vote to keep it as the official language, as they recently did in the US, then it will remain the only official language. Now, preventing unofficial languages from spreading is far more difficult, that's true. As for only allowing the "right" people in, not many would have any argument against keeping criminals and terrorists out. Those lacking skills or money and unwilling to work would likely also be banned by almost everyone. Admittedly, fewer would agree that a goal should be to preserve the current ethnic mix in any country, but I bet it's still a majority. StuRat 19:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
The problem is your definition of "criminal" and "terrorist", and "lazy worker". The way you phrase the argument implies that all Hispanics are lazy and all Muslims are terrorists, which is not true. As for the majority, not everything the majority decides on is necessarily moral or right. Ask the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia sometime. --ColourBurst 04:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
It's not hard to define "criminal", that is someone who has committed a crime. Of course, you can only check for those with arrests and criminal convictions, but that's a good start. You might say it's too strict to keep immigrants out for misdemeanors, like petty theft, but considering the number of honest immigrants waiting to get it, we can afford to be choosy. As for "terrorist", I would define that as being a member of any terrorist organization (the US maintains a list of these). As for "lazy", any immigrant who comes to the US and tries to get on welfare instead of working should be sent home. Once they stay long enough to become a citizen, and take the proper steps, then they can stay even if they can't work. I never implied that all Hispanics are lazy (if so, I would have said we should ban Hispanic immigration, wouldn't I ?) or that all Muslims are terrorists, that was all in your mind. The majority isn't always right, but it most often is, as I believe it is in this case. In short, I believe any country has the right to manage immigration for it's own benefit, with the benefit to the potential immigrants a secondary consideration, not the other way around. StuRat 16:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
As for the sentence on the Statue of Liberty: "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses", it should be changed to "Give us your healthy, honest, hard workers who are willing to integrate into our society, and put loyalty to their new country above their country of origin." Willingness to integrate includes learning the native language, BTW. StuRat 16:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

300 Proofs for the existance of God[edit]

With all of these proofs, how can anyone question the existance of God? Mayor Westfall 13:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well seeing as the site is Goodless Geeks I would suppose that they are being sarcastic. And none of them are proofs just a bunch of unsupported claims made to look like proof. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Hehe...I love proof number 345 -- Ferkelparade π 14:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
See Babel Fish#Existence Of God.  :-) --LarryMac 14:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
No. 17

concern witch burning, this strange and cruel punishment might prove god does not exist. amit youre a witch and you live?!? or throw you in a river, if you swim or float your a witch, if you drown your not ?!?!? Christians are very strange people. They should channel thier energy into Gnosticism. eg Pistis Sophia. 16:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The better question is, why does someone believe there is no proof for God just because there are over 300 bad proofs for God. Jon513 16:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
None of them are proof, It's just a list of (weak) arguments for his existence. Philc TECI 16:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree that none of these are proofs but that does not mean that there are none. Jon513 17:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I haven't seen an agrument for god that cant be simplified into one of those arguements
And an argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. 17:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd have to disagree, I don't think there will ever be proof of god, as they are outside the universe, which means none of the rules we have devised to explain the universe apply. But wether he exists or not is a different matter. If a god does exist, having the whole universe to tend to (if s/he does do that) s/he maybe completely unconcerned with humans anyway.
I would say that science and religion made a truce about that point. Science says that you can only prove what you build, and does not try to build a theory about God. Some religions say that God sets people free ... Proofs are useless then : religions needing proofs are historically very interesting and still out of date. --DLL 18:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

What's wrong with the following "reducto ad absurdum" proof? 1. Assume God. 2. WTF?? Thank you.

Ummm...1. Assume God exists. 2. ??? 3. Profit! (sorry, I couldn't resist) -- Ferkelparade π 19:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Hmmmm... I wouldn't call them proofs..they are more like the statements I said, a long time ago, to my elder brother when I tried to "reason" with him to get him to give me the remote control of the Tv. I wonder what kind of analysis or "logical reasoning" would the author of the "proofs" would have given if he'd assumed that God didnt exist. Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 21:07, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I know I've said this before, but I'll say it once again. (I'll try to say it in a different way to at least add some variety). God, as a concept, is defined as a being that can transcend the laws of physics and logic. Should you believe in God, as I do, God, being omnipotent, is capable of manipulating the laws of physics and logic as we understand them. Attempting to prove that God exists is not only silly, but counterproductive. If God is indeed capable of being proven, then he is not God, but merely a cosmological phenomenon. God, by definition, is unprovable, and if he were provable, he would not be God.

As an analogy, consider the quote by Descartes: Cogito ergo sum..."I Think, Therefore I Am". DesCartes was struggling with existentialism, trying to find "proof" that he did indeed "exist". Unfortunately, this "proof" was beyond his grasp, and he had to settle for a sort of "compromise" solution. Hence "Cogito ergo sum", i.e., I ultimately cannot prove that I "exist", however, the fact that I'm capable of "thought" is "proof" enough for me, (though it's not "proof" in the general sense of the term). Similarly, I cannot prove that God exists, but pondering the universe and the order with which it seems to operate, the existence of a "prime mover" seems to me more likely than not. Loomis 00:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's see.

  1. starts from an unproven premise (1).
  2. starts from an unproven premise (1) and has no link from part 3 to part 4. The cause of the universe doesn't have to be God.
  3. starts with a false premise. I define a 74-legged green donkey called Gerald to be X.
  4. The "Anselm hypothesis", with an incorrect second premise. Existence is not a quality of perfection.
  5. Incorrect premise (2) - no proof that god is unnecessary; incorrect link to (3) necessity does not precluse non-existence.
  6. Incorrect premise (2) - in any chaotic system complexity increases with time and iteration. After a couple of thousand million years of evolution, complexity in such a system is inevitable.
  7. Incorrect premise. Beauty is a human construct. Corrollary is also interesting (1- isn't that hideous? 2- no God could ever have created something that hideous; 3 - it was not created by God).
  8. No connection between premise (3) and conclusion. Faith and hope alone are powerful weapons against illness.
  9. Incorrect connection between example premise and general conclusion. Incorrect premise as well, since moral code is often based on religious texts.
  10. No connection between premise (2) and conclusion. If a person "becomes religious" then it implies changing attitudes to agree with that religions moral code. That moral code is quite independent of any real or fictitious existence of God. If the Great Church of the 74-legged Green Donkey Called Gerald calls on its adherents to be wonderful, ethical, kind people, then this argument implies that The 74-legged Green Donkey Called Gerald exists.
  11. Incorrect premise (1), incorrect premise (2). 1: There is nothing to stop creationism and evolution co-existing in some form. 2: Argument from stupidity is fallacious. Someone with an average might lack the intelligence to understand how the internet works, and might be uncomfortable about its existence - but this does not mean that the internet does not exist.
  12. No link between premise and conclusion, incomplete premise. We are all going to die - even the Bible says so. And whether we do or not is not connected to the existence or otherwise of God.

... etc etc etc. Then again as pointed out, the page is a spoof page anyway. these are the sort of "proofs" that people tend to use to try to prove the existence of God, but none of them stand up to scrutiny. I particularly like some of them though - such as 20-24 and 26. Grutness...wha? 09:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Cannot use Interent Explorer[edit]

Hi, I'm having trouble with IE, for some reason I am unable to open it. I click the button and nothing happens, i did this whilst viewing my task manager and saw it quickly appears as iexplorer.exe and rapidly closes, can anyone help? The problem however extends to the fact that i am unable to open folders either, such as recycle bin and my computer. When i do the desktop goes clear with only my background visible and all prgrams minimised. Thank in advance 17:06, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing as your able to write this your either doing it from someone elses computer or you're using a different web browser. In both cases, you're much better off using a more secure, faster and more featured web browser, such as Firefox -Benbread 17:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Ditto. But did you try shutting down your computer? Running a virus scan? Are you using IE 7 Beta? If you answered yes to the last one, you should report the error and ask (e-mail) a technician, as it is most likely a bug. schyler 17:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, try restarting. That solves 90% of problems. —Mets501 (talk) 18:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for all you suggestions, i am using fiorefox to do this at the moment. I did runa virus scan and nothing was found, any chance of some sort of spyware? though i am still using firefox i can't open my folders. 18:27, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I had a problem with my windows explorer once. I tried everything you tried but nothing worked. So, I backed up as many files as i could and formatted my computer and reinstalled windows Xp. Then, *wallah*, everything was back to normal. Although, I recommend that you do this only when everything else fails. Personally, I like to reinstall Windows Xp in my computer every month or so. Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 18:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Whatever you do, only format and reinstall as a final resort. Try using another browser, while you're working on getting IE functional again. - Mgm|(talk) 07:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
You could try downloading and installing IE 6 SP1 on top of your current version. That might fix whatever files have gotten messed up. Guess you could also try the new IE 7 beta and see if that will work. Seems like a good oppotunity to switch away from IE altogether though, I'm using Opera myself and have never looked back. --Sherool (talk) 06:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Mozilla vs Firefox[edit]

Why is everyone so full of firefox these days? I use Mozilla because it's basically the same, but comes with a (close to) wysiwyg html editor. Much better for writing texts than any other text editor / word processor I know of. Full-featured, yet starts up fast, easier to use and much much smaller files. DirkvdM 18:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Firefox benefitted greatly from a big publicity campaign. Mozilla had some negative baggage because of the time it took to get any product finished. Also, some (most?) people just don't need everything that's included in the Mozilla suite. I just expect my browser to be able to browse, I don't need an html editor or newsgroup reader or whatever else. (I also would love to get a cellular phone that gets a good signal and makes phone calls, not one that takes videos and plays music, but I digress). --LarryMac 18:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
When Firefox first debuted, start-up times were a major problem for the Mozilla suite, particularly if you used it primarily as a browser. Were Firefox a brand-new product today, I doubt there would be nearly the emphasis. Of course, part of the reason for the ongoing push is that Mozilla is (I think) planning to replace the Mozilla suite browser with Firefox's development / UI / whatever distinguishes them. — Lomn | Talk 19:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Why object to an extra when it costs nothing? The startup time (3 seconds for me) is only a problem once a day. After that, all the other windows open instantly. Unless at somepoint you close them all, then a new startup takes about 1,5 s. DirkvdM 08:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Note that as the Mozilla web browser separated to Firefox (and mail client to Thunderbird), the wysiwyg html editor is available separately as well, under the name Nvu - --Pasky 16:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

But I'm also asking about using html as a text-file standard. It's the only one that is really standard (every computer has a browser). So why not change to that? The editor comes with the browser (just one install needed), is GPL and doesn't try to force some new 'standard' down your throat (as OpenOffice does). DirkvdM 08:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Is Avril Lavigne a sellout?[edit]

Just after some opinions here guys. Would you consider Avril Lavigne to be a sellout for using her web site, [21] in order to sell fee-heavy Mastercard debits cards to the kids? As a punk myself, I'm probably a bit biased as it offends my punk rock sensibilities - I certainly now view her as a sellout because of this. -- 18:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

While we try to deal primarily with facts here, I'd have to say that my opinion is that Avril was never a punk and that she's been a tool of her corporate record label overlords since day 1. --LarryMac 19:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
The idea of "punk" is corporate anyway. Avirl may not be punk, but she is a real talent. --mboverload@ 19:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I would say so. She's been modelling, appearing on the front of fashion magazines and hanging out with Paris Hilton too. Did anyone even seriously think that Avril was the model of punk rock ethics in the first place? --Kurt Shaped Box 22:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Larry is right, Avril is a tool. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Larry is right, we try to deal primarily with facts here, not with ping-pong opinions. Take it to a fan forum. --Tagishsimon (talk)
She's kind of hot though. --Froth 06:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to burst your bubbel but every one "sells out". Do you think because this person plays loud music they would be less inclinded to take advantage of lucrative oppertunities. Also one must consider, her defense, her small window to make money. Most punk musicans careers short. As she grows older her ability make money will greatly decrease. Therfore she needs to make her money now. This is much different from white collar proffessionals who have more of an oppurtunity to make money when their older.

Dorm cooking[edit]

I have a cup of coconut milk, 200 grams of mushrooms, hot dogs, barley, rice, onions, garlic, tomatoes, potatos, oil, and plenty of spices. All I have to cook with is a Slow cooker. My main goal is to use the coconut milk and mushrooms. What kinds of stew can I make? Jon513 19:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

You can probably make some type of curry from the ingredients (if you have the right spices), but I'm not sure if you can do it with a slow cooker. Most types of creamy soup requires something heavier than coconut milk, I would think. --ColourBurst 03:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Lots of Thai food is based on cocunut milk and spices. —Keenan Pepper 05:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
You could make Irish stew or Stovies. AllanHainey 07:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Except I'd leave the hot dogs out entirely. They tend to contain yucky preservatives that would not go well in a stew or a curry. JackofOz 10:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I ended up fring the onions garlic and mushrooms, then adding the coconut milk, hot dog, barley and rice. I came out ok. Thanks. Jon513 11:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the "feed" back.  :--) JackofOz 12:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Wait wait -- you fried stuff in a slow cooker? --LarryMac 12:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I put oil in the bottom and the stuff to fry. It takes a long time (2 hours) but it works. Jon513 19:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Odd markings on a carpenter's rule[edit]

The ruler: carpenter's tool or mysterious alien artifact?

I was just sitting here toying around with a carpenter's rule (I'm one of those persons who constantly pick up some random object and wiggle it around) when I noticed a rather odd set of markings on the rule. They appear as thick black marks on both sides of the rule at (more or less) irregular intervals, and I cannot discern any useful pattern in the way they are arranged. They are (on a metric ruler) at 23.5cm, 44.5cm, 65.5cm, 86.5cm, 111.5cm, 132.5cm, 153.5cm, and 174.5cm, so for the most part they are adding 21 centimeters with an odd jump in the middle. I checked on some other rulers, but this one seems to be the only one with such markings. Is there any significance to these markings (as in, 23.5cm is some standardized shelf size, etc.)? Or is it some sort of code I cannot decipher? Have I stumbled upon a secret freemason's building tool? -- Ferkelparade π 20:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't know about a secret freemason's tool but the only answer i can think of is that he was building a shelf or something (whatever you call that thing in the most peoples living room) with racks for books or nice wines on both sides and a big hole in the middle for a tv. Now, I dont know whether the measurements you mentions would have space for a tv, but its the only thing that comes to my mind. (Maybe it was a small tv). Though curiously enough I have the exact same condition or whatever as you. I cant keep my hands off of tools. And I remember a ruler like the one you mentioned, and as the carpenter was finished with measuring a shelf with a ruler, he put the marks like you mentioned on it. I think he was making doors for the racks or something. Although, putting the marks with a marker rather than a pencil doesn't make much sense. Jayant,17 Years, Indiacontribs 20:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Some of those markings might be for common distances between wall studs. StuRat 21:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I should probably add that these markings are printed on the ruler, not put on by a carpenter during work. I also suspect they must be some common distances for something, but I'm curious to know for what exactly. -- Ferkelparade π 06:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

In North America, the tape measures carry the 16" stud markings. There are probably a dozen variations in Europe. :) (that's a joke, you touchy Europeans!) --Zeizmic 14:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

US tapes also often have diamond marks at the "8/5" points (19.2", alternate stud spacing that saves one 2 by 4 every eight feet) which I could swear we had a question about around here recently. Which means nothing in the context of Ferkelparade's question, but I felt like contributing anyway :-) --LarryMac 14:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
You might try cross-posting this to the Mathematics desk. Maybe there's some pattern here that those guys could pick out. --Howard Train 16:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
How about a picture in this age of digital cameras? Without one, I'd guess they're used to mark common angles (e.g., 15°, 30°, etc.). —Bradley 17:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I placed the ruler on my scanner and added a picture to better illustrate the markings. As you can see, they don't work too well for marking for asking on the math desk, the pattern is not taht complicated, but it looks rather useless to me: start at 23.5, add 21 until you reach 86.5, then add 25 once, then continue adding 21. The black marks than can be seen on the side are some hardware manufacturer's all my rulers, this one was a giveaway at some hardware store. I own at least a dozen of the things without ever having bought one. -- Ferkelparade π 19:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Combining all that info, I think I may have it. Assuming the wall timber is 4x2 (um that's 2x4 to Americans, for some weird reason), the midpoint of the first stud will be at 2.5 cm (1"). If stud spacing is 16", then the midpoint between the first and second studs will be at 1"+8" = 22.9cm. the next stud will be at 43.3cm, and so on. It doesn't quite tie in with a 21cm gap, but it may be close enough to be the explanation, especially if the gap is closer to 16 1/4" than 16. Grutness...wha? 03:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, that sounds about right...I would ecxpect a metric stud layout on a metric ruler, but that also seems to work if one assumes a slightly wider stud (of about 5cm width) every 2 meters. I guess this solves the mystery...thanks for the input, everyone :) -- Ferkelparade π 12:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Website help[edit]

Hello, I am working on a new template for my site and I am trying to make drop-dowm menus. Kinda like I cant figure out how to do that in Frontpage 2003 and the web didnt help much. If someone here could help, that would be great!! Thanks --Zach 20:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are interested in making a real professional webpage you will have to learn HTML, CSS, and maybe even some JavaScript. If you want to make a simple amateur website FrontPage will do. The truth is, HTML and CSS are not that hard and I don’t understand why people use programs like FrontPage. The feature you described can be done with either CSS or JavaScript. This site can help you implement it with CSS. This site claims to be able to write the JavaScript for you. - good luck. Jon513 12:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Who is the Wikipedian with the broadest knowledge of languages?[edit]

That should be reflected in the user's babel... Thanks ;)

I put forth myself. Any contenders? DirkvdM 08:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I speak a good few too193.115.175.247 09:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

But you have no user page, so no babel list (check my page to see what I mean). DirkvdM 10:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

just not logged in. prick

Are you calling me a prick or speaking in tongues? (haven't mastered that yet) DirkvdM 19:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
My vote is for Gareth Hughes, with 15 (plus some alphabets) to Dirk's 9; I hope he doesn't mind my volunteering him. СПУТНИКCCC P 18:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I didn't quite expect to win this one. But to get beaten by a priest .... Why does that happen to me? (hand of God?) Of course I could bitch about Latin being a dead language, but that would be a bit weak.
Anyway, I'm impressed. I bow to Garzo. I couldn't even tell what some of those languages were. Welsh, Cornish, Gaelic, Old English and English could be called variations on a theme, but then I used that trick too - Frysian and Afrikaans are so closely related to Dutch that, without ever learning them, I can understand them with some effort. I'd love to add Russian and Arabic to my list too. And Japanese, for that matter. Life's too short. DirkvdM 19:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Do VB or csh count ? --DLL 21:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
probably, as there are some userboxes relating to computer languages. --WhiteDragon 18:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


Hello, My 4 Year old son wants to know if Leopards can swim, and why do cats not like water? I would appreciate some help in satiating the unrelenting inquisitiveness of my son. Thank you -- Naabi.

This website [22] says that clouded leopards can swim. Some cats do like water, you might also want to look at Turkish Van and Fishing Cat. JMiall 22:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I really love the phrase "satiating [the] unrelenting inquisitiveness". JackofOz 22:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
[23] says all cats can swim if they have to. [24] gives a good answer to why some cats don't like water and other do.-gadfium 23:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Tigers swim a lot. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Catfish also like to swim. Mayor Westfall 03:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 :-) Iolakana|T 20:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
The aforementioned expression reminds me of Kipling's Just so stories - particularly a curious baby elephant. --DLL 21:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

How much does one click of the advertisement on google cost?[edit]

Hi, I have interests in the revenues of google and from the article "Adwords" it is said that most of the profit of google come from the advertisement. I would like to know for one click, how much does a company need to pay google for "one click"? Thanks!

google and google are your friends. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Thank you! very helpful!koren 08:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I am angry[edit]

Not a question but more of a poll: Does it make anyone else mad when people can't find an article in the search box because they misspell it, then they put the misspelling on the requested article list? Russian F 23:54, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

No. People are fallibel fallable make mistakes. The spelling will eventually get corrected; life's too short to get shirty about this sort of thing. --Tagishsimon (talk)
Yes, that is true, but instead of trying a different spelling or looking for an article that may have a link to the page thay are searching for, people just decide to be impatient and lazy. Russian F 00:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
If one person misspells it in a certain way, quite likely someone else will too. So make a redirect to the correct spelling, adding the {{R from misspelling}} template to the same line as the #REDIRECT. Takes five seconds and is much more useful than getting angry. --Trovatore 00:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
It may be that they don't know they have misspelled the word. In which case why would they try an alternate. A couple of examples of this are here (which I created in response to an earlier question). Both "offical" and "varities" are wrong. The second of which did not get changed until today. I also entered Manitobia instead of Manitoba several times before the redlink caught my eye but not on the first misspelling. Another one may be the correct spelling but a slightly different word. I will often type "pleas" for "please" and of course the spell checker won't catch it. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • It doesn't happen too often, but when I misspell something, I try to see if Google offers an alternative spelling to put into the Wikipedia search bar, or try to find a link to said article on a related page, so I don't need to type it correctly myself. - Mgm|(talk) 07:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
It'd be nice if Google released an API that allowed websites to use Google's Spell Check facility but i'm guessing the only real advantage would be to us, so it's unlikely to happen. An open source search spell checker, anyone? -Benbread 10:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
It's not only the speling that can mess you up. It seems to take months after an article is written before it can be Searched for because it sometimes takes that long for WP to index the article (if spelled correctly, the Go button will retrieve the article immediately). Google seems to index WP's pages every couple of weeks so using this WP specific search box can be useful for reasons of both spelling and timeliness. --hydnjo talk 11:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
There's a spellcheck extension for Firefox, and the Google Toolbar has spell check capability as well. (disclaimer - I have not used either of these) --LarryMac 13:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

As long as we're wishing for things, it would be nice if the {{R from misspelling}} template could somehow have the effect of informing the user that he'd been redirected from the misspelling. No idea how that could be implemented without developer-level changes. --Trovatore 18:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I often wish that Wikipedia could function like google does. When you misspell a word in a search of google, it says, "Did you mean [word spelled correctly]?" 05:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Did you notice that when the WP search engine is overloaded, it gracefully offers Goohoo and Yagle search boxes (with a choice between "search WP" & "search the net") ? These should always be at hand. --DLL 21:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah - best not to bother with the WP search engine, it sucks. Use the google one straight off. Trollderella 15:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

June 29[edit]


i was playing with the edit thing and messed up stuff on knoxville and conlang pages,I didnt think it would work. sry

Somebody had already taken care of Knoxville, I reverted your changes to Conlang. We encourage you to experiment, but please use the sandbox. (cross-posted to talk page) --LarryMac 02:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

i will next time sry agin

Is plagirism allowed on Wikipedia.[edit]

I was just looking through random articles and came apon the one for a keygaurd. Interested in what it looked like I went to google to look for a picture. One of the sites I went to had an all to familiar definition for a keygaurd.


" The keyguard is an overlay with holes cut in it that correspond to the keys on the keyboard.

It fits to a user's keyboard and can be useful for people who tend to hit more than one key

at a time, or who fatigue and need to rest on the keyboard while typing. Custom keyguards

made to fit any keyboard."


"A keyguard is an overlay with holes cut in it that correspond to the keys on the keyboard. It fits to a user's keyboard and can be useful for people who tend to hit more than one key at a time, or who fatigue and need to rest on the keyboard while typing. Custom keyguards are made to fit any keyboard. "

I am sorry if this is the wrong place to put this comment, but it was an issue that I thought should be brought up.

Thanks for pointing this out. We do take copyright violations very seriously, and I have removed the text and reported the article. The correct place for such reports is at Wikipedia:Copyright problems.-gadfium 02:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Just to reinforce the point: VERY seriously. We don't play around with things like this. Thank you for taking the time to point it out, again. --mboverload@ 09:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
What of plagarising from Wikipedia?--John Brown 10:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


do i have to give any set backs for an easement that runs through my property

That depends on the nature of the easement and your jurisdiction; the laws will vary. Have you tried contacting your municipal government? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Dunno what this is about, but if it's a legal question you should always add which country you're in. DirkvdM 19:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

A set-back is a distance you are required to leave clear from the border of your property inward, to allow for access, fire control, etc.
An easement is a portion of land allegedly owned by the homeowner, with all attendant responsibilities for maintenance, but where the government has exclusive control of the usage of that area. A prime example is sidewalks in front of homes.
As to the question, you certainly can't build on an easement, and some additional set-back requirement from the easement is also likely, but will vary by jurisdiction. StuRat 20:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for that precise answer. I could not figure out what the question asker was talking about ;) GTubio 10:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
You're quite welcome. StuRat 16:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Creating Stubs and Correcting a Page Title[edit]

I have created a listing for "Personal Health Information Privacy Act" but I titled it incorrectly... it should be "Protection Act," and not the title listed as "privacy act." How do I correct this error? I did not find a way to correct it when editing the page.

Additionally, how do I get this new page listed as a Stub?

Cheers Marc Yarascavitch 04:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It looks like it's already been moved and labelled as four different kinds of stub. Future questions about Wikipedia should be asked at the help desk. —Keenan Pepper 05:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Mensiversary Odd dates[edit]

I've looked through the use of google and the use of wikipedia on the subject of Mensiversary wondering how a date would be handled if it does not re-occur every month, say the 30th, or 31st of a month, what would a person do if that was the date they were trying to celebrate with their date or spouse.

There is some discussion on the page Talk:Anniversary (wikipedia)about Mensiversary dates, but doesnt refer to my question.

I'd be greatly thankful for any help to shed some light on this matter for me,

In non-Leap years, people born on 29 February choose to celebrate their birthday on 28 February or 1 March. I can't see why the "one day either side" rule wouldn't apply to the situation you've asked about. A six-month mensiversary of a 31 May wedding would be held on either 30 November or 1 December (assuming the happy couple can still agree on anything by then). A one-month mensiversary of a 31 January wedding would have to be on 28 or 29 February depending on the year, or 1 March. I can't think of any official contexts in which a mensiversary would be relevant (which may explain why the word has not really become accepted and we don't have a separate article on it). JackofOz 10:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Alcoholic drinks[edit]

Can someone please give me a list of Alcaholic drinks and the main fermenting ingredient needed to make that drink? For example, wine => grapes.

Suggest you take a look at list of alcoholic beverages and follow the links to see what each of them is made from.--Shantavira 12:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
There is a listing near the bottom of Alcoholic beverage. --hydnjo talk 13:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Source information[edit]

There is no source location mentioned for this Image:Bataille-sm.jpg. Is the Template:PD-Soviet enough? Anyone could use that template with any image, but after placing Template:No source I wasn't sure. Best regards, Ilse@ 13:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Asked again on Wikipedia:Help desk#Source information. Ilse@ 08:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


I read the article on Internet_scams. About the "re-shipper" scam, couldn't the person being scammed, scam the scammers by just keeping the goods? Would this be illegal? Even if it was, who would file a complaint? Mayor Westfall 14:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The re-shipper is receiving goods purchased on a stolen credit card. To authorities, it would appear that the re-shipper is the one committing the fraud. Perhaps you can steal some credit card numbers yourself, ship the goods to yourself, and then when the police show up claim you sent them to Nigeria—let us know how well this works. —Bradley 17:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't you have to know the credit card was stolen for it to be a crime? If you're told the cards are legitimate and the card holder is asking you to buy goods for him/her, couldnt you do just that assuming good faith, but then wait a long time before you send the goods off to make sure its legit. If the scammer breaks off contact, assume he decided he didn't want the goods anymore and keep them for yourself.

In any case, thank you for your suggestion, but I already blame people from Africa whenever the police show up. FYI, it works everytime Mayor Westfall 18:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

In case anyone is mistaking the above for a racist slam, it is actually a reference to Advance fee fraud, also known as the Nigerian money transfer fraud. -- Rick Block (talk) 19:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
The cops will eventually knock on your door because the credit company called them (there may be a minimum dollar limit for the fraud for this to happen, depends on the credit company and in which country you live.) If your living room has a big screen TV and its serial number matches a purchase made with a stolen credit card you'll have some 'splainin to do. If you held on to the goods to see what the fraudster did that could even count against you, as you evidently suspected the goods might be stolen but failed to notify authorities. Weregerbil 21:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Shawn Wayans[edit]

I have heard shawn wayans is now single, no other site has ever said he was or is married, I was wondering how you found that he was married.

Thank you for spotting this. The person who added that information was a vandal (User talk: in case anyone else wants to follow this up). I have corrected the article. --Shantavira 17:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I've warned user but they may change IP addresses every time they log on! EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 19:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Microsoft Excel[edit]

Is there a way to change column headings to make them go in place of the letters (i.e) A, B, C? I need the first item of data to be in A1, and I don't want the A row to be column headings. Your help would be greatly appreciated. AdamBiswanger1 15:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

You may want to ask this at the help desk, who specialise in dealing with these sorts of questions (assuming you're talking about Wikipedia)> EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 19:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
No, he is talking about Microsoft Excel. Maybe that article will help you, Adam? EdGl 20:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think you can do this. Excel depends on uniquely referenced cells, so the whole thing would fall over if you could change the names of cells (which is what you are effectively trying to do). Out of interest, why do you need the first item of data to be in A1? --Richardrj 09:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Just hide the headers. In XL : Options, then View : uncheck "Headers". Hope that helps.--DLL 21:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Trouble is I think he actually wants to rename the headers. --Richardrj 04:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think it's a lost cause, but thanks for your help! AdamBiswanger1 12:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


What's the biggest star? Is it the biggest star listed here?Mayor Westfall 16:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

This link takes a stab at your question: [27]. The largest known stars are luminous blue variable stars. LBV 1806-20 may be the largest of these. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
The Ulmer Scale places Tom Cruise as the biggest star[28]. (oh I couldn't resist) Sum0 17:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, both sources seem to agree that Antares is still the biggest in volume, don't them? GTubio 10:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Taking goal kicks in soccer[edit]

In the Football pitch article it mentions that a goal kick can be taken from anywhere within the 6-yard box. It seems to me, though, that the ball is always placed near the top corner on the side that the ball went out on. This seems to be the case even when it's no faster to set up on one side or the other. I would think that a keeper would either want to put the ball in the middle (so he can shoot easily to either side) or put it on the side of his dominant foot. Is putting it to the side that the ball went out on just a convention that everyone seems to follow? Or do keepers sometimes put the ball on the other side, or in the middle? 199 (talk) 16:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you actually think that professional sportsmen are aware of the rules? It may be the case that certain GKs prefer to take the kicks from the same corner each time, because they feel most comfortable. Most of the time a curved run-up to the ball is preferred and is longer than six yards, so it's possible that they've made a choice of left or right corner to avoid running from the back of the net. Putting the ball in the middle is something which I have seen very rarely. Either way, almost all keepers use the furthest edge of the 6yd box to gain more distance.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  17:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I've seen them taken from the middle and seemingly abritrary places inside the box. Obviously the may prefer putting it towards the top of the box to get that extra length. And towards the sides possibly to get extra width as goalkeepers tend to kick the ball very straight wherever posible, and do not like kicking the ball sideways, I suppose to prevent throw-ins given to the opposition in their own half in event of a mis-kick, whereas, when done straight the ball falls to his own defenders. Philc TECI 19:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I've always found that strange too 199! I play football and as a defender with a good kick, I take some of the goalkicks (anyone can take them, not just the goalie). Anyhow, if the ball goes over the goaline on, say, the left hand side, outfield players position themselves for a goalkick on that side. I then place the ball in the opposite corner of the 6 yard box, much to the confusion of the opposition, who have to shuffle across the pitch! You can gain an advantage by kicking from the opposite corner as it catches the opposition somewhat by suprise. I do it more for my own amusement than to gain advantage though! --Downunda 00:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, back when I was at school, we all certainly believed that you had to take it from the corner nearest where the ball went over the goal-line. As we never had a referee and had to decide these things by consensus LOL I cant say whether this was correct (then) or just a myth. But maybe there has been a rule change (take it from anywhere) and, as Slumgum suggests, the pros just havent caught up with it yet. Jameswilson 22:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Wow. I thought that was illegal. Interesting. --Proficient 10:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


I'm designing a website for a friend, who's starting a business using eBay. Not being a copyright expert or nuffink, I was wondering about legality: is it legal for me to use the eBay logo on the site? If not, are there any ways to get permission? Thanks. Sum0 17:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are using it without permission, no, it is not legal. The only legal usage of a copyrighted work or logo without permission is fair use, which will not cover starting a business. You can ask eBay at any of the customer service emails they list, but it's extremely doubtful that they'll permit you to use their logo for your own business. 199 (talk) 17:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
eBay offers some standard buttons you could perhaps use, if they fit into your design: [29]. David Sneek 17:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Ah, that's useful. Thanks to both of you. Sum0 17:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

deleting the previous ended listings from ebay[edit]

Hi, asking a questions for my friends. Is there a way to delete the previous ended listings from ebay? At the moment, they said, after one sold an item on ebay, and if someone left a feedback, from the "view feedback" link, others can still be able to view the previous ended listings (the seller listed the goods before, although the auction has finished and ended, others can still see the auctions and the previous goods on the listing). So, is there any method that the seller can permanently delete the previous (already ended) listings away from EBay? In other words, on ebay, how can the seller permanently delete the record of his/her previous selling activities?

Thank you!

I don't know of anyway to do this, and I really hope there is no such way. Otherwise somebody could go on there, create a listing for something, sell it, get the money from it, and then quickly delete it so that even the buyer would have no proof that the sale ever existed, and so they couldn't leave any feedback or anything. Thankfully, everything is kept as record, so that when you buy something from somebody, you can see their history of sales to determine if they're reliable or not. --Maelwys 17:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
If an auction is pulled by eBay because it violates the acceptable use policy they will delete the auction so that it cannot be looked up. Otherwise, they are removed from the active database after approximately 90 days. It would work against buyers for sellers to be able to delete their auctions right away as they would be able to hide their sales. EBay is suppoed to be community patrolled and having access to closed auctions is a necessity for that. —Bradley 18:46, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

airline passengers numbers[edit]

How do the airlines come up with the number of passengers they carry.I s it by departing flights or arriving flights or both ??Is there a formula they follow when they do this ?? thanks for your help

kevin kolasinski

Wouldn't departing and arriving flights be the same? I haven't been on any flights where someone felt the need to get out half way. Don't they just count their number of passengers, since everyone has to check in. Philc TECI 19:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess you weren't on D.B. Cooper's flightMayor Westfall 14:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure they do just tally the total number of passengers from each flight: I'm guessing they have to make a note somewhere of every passenger on board, just in case.
Budget airlines are renowned (in the UK at least) for overbooking the number passengers for flights to ensure they have the fullest load possible when the jet takes off.
Not just budget airlines. All airlines do this. — Michael J 21:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Not all, but most. JetBlue Airways does not. -- Hawaiian717 21:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I wonder if they don't just assume that every flight was full and base the number of passsengers on that. Also how about flights that are the same number even though they stop at an intermediate airport? As an example an aircraft that can carry 100 people leaves airport A as Flight 123 with 75 on board. Gets to point B and drops off 25 but loads 10. It then continues on to point C as Flight 123. So how many passengers has Flight 123 carried, 50, 60, 75 or 85? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Wouldn't it be easiest to count the number of boarding passes handed out? - Mgm|(talk) 07:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Airplane Mobile Hallway Thingy[edit]

Ok, this has been driving me crazy for a long time. When you are on a jumbo-jet like a Boeing 747, when you get on and off the plane, there are these Mobile Hallways that drive up and extend a hallway so you can walk onto the plane from the departure terminal.

What the heck is the technical name for these things?! I am tired of saying 'Mobile Hallway Thingy'. Thanks. 20:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

They're usually called jetways, though this is a genericized trademark. FMC Technologies, the company that owns the Jetway trademark, calls them "passenger boarding bridges". [30] -- Hawaiian717 20:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. 20:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps walkway is better; from the artile: It can also be used to board and remove passengers from aircraft to the terminal building. Iolakana|T 21:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Easyjet calls them skybridges. That doesn't accord with our article, but maybe it's an airline-specific (or UK-specific) term. --Howard Train 01:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I have also heard them call sky bridges, but I think it was Southwest Airlines. --mboverload@ 09:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


There is not article about "Penut" in Wikipedia?

Are you looking for peanut? -- Ferkelparade π 20:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
If you are really looking for "Penut" it's the eighth track on 13 (HLAH album). --hydnjo talk 20:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
lol. That was pretty funny. --Proficient 08:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Movie Effect[edit]

When you are watching for example, a documentary on how the movie if filmed, you can notice that the movie and lighting looks very different from the actual movie you are seeing. The actual movie is like darker and has more contrast than when you see movie being filmed. How do they achieve that "movie effect" that all proffessional movies have? --Jamesino 20:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess they run it through various computer/chemical filters to darken/lighten the frames. -Benbread 21:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
This is something I've often wondered. I think films run at a different frame-rate to what we're used to on TV, and use a different film format. Possibly like how in old TV programs there's a clear difference between footage shot in a studio and footage shot on location, because they have to use different cameras outside. Sum0 21:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

This was answered once before, and Cinematography has some of it. I think the styles will converge once super-digital is used everywhere. --Zeizmic 21:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

In fact there are many variables involved in producing a recorded image. Are they shooting with film stock, or video-to-film? Available light or artificial? Direct or reflected light? The cinematographer, or Director of Photography (DP), decides on a "look" for a film and adjusts the apertures, light levels, etc. accordingly in a consistent manner. In addition, the DP for a feature film may have a greater assortment of lenses available than the cameraman filming the documentary. All of these factors must be balanced by the DP to produce the desired image.

Also, feature film photography is usually low contrast, i.e., the difference between the "brightest" element of an image and the "darkest" element of the same image will be minimized, so that the bright parts don't glare or burn out and the dark parts will still show detail, unless the intent is to have pools of black within the frame for effect. The DP for the "Godfather" films, Gordon Willis, was famous, or notorious, for using low lighting and big swaths of black in the shots for those films. The more traditional, or stodgy, Hollywood cinematographers did not appreciate his approach and so Willis was not even nominated for an Academy Award for his work on "The Godfather" and "Godfather II." By the time of "The Godfather, Part III" things had changed enough in the Academy that Willis was finally awarded an Oscar for Best Cinematography.

Robster24.20.159.212 05:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

airline doesn't allow couple with baby as it is a few hours too young?[edit]


I was told this was aired in of those dozens of airline programmes on television. An airline did not want to allow babies onto the plane that were younger than two weeks. When a couple's baby turned out to be a few hours younger than two weeks, they forced the couple to sit around at the airport and eventually take a later flight.

Does anyone where and in which programme this was?

If this is true, isn't this a bit over the top? Isn't forcing those parents to sit around for nothing with their baby for nothing (keeping the baby possibly disturbed) actually more harmful?

Evilbu 20:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

There are laws that are even more stupid about age. For example, if a girl has sex an hour before her age of consent birthday, the man can be charged with a felony, imprisoned for years, then forced to register as a sex offender and live alone in the woods for the rest of his life. On the other hand, if they wait an hour, there is no crime at all. StuRat 23:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I wonder how they'd handle daylight savings time in such a situation. GeeJo (t)(c) • 04:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
That's a good point. Generally laws such as legal drinking age go by date only - time is irrelevant (in Australia at least). I was born at 10:58pm, however I was allowed to drink when I was 17 years, 364 days, 1 hour and 3 minutes old! Actually my 18th birthday was May 1996 - a leap year - so it was actually 365 days. -- Chuq 02:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know the medical reason, but I do know they did it for liability reasons. Companies (are pussies) don't like to get into lawsuits that have no merit. --mboverload@ 09:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

To expand on mboverload, companies are indeed pussies. They'd rather shove a couple grand in your pocket and have you run along than win a lawsuit over a pillow that smelled like farts. This makes sense, because companies want to have positive relations with their customers, since sacrificing the couple grand now means more money to them in the future. (Because their image wasn't hurt from a lawsuit.) —THIS IS MESSEDR with umlaut.pngOCKER (TALK) 04:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Some nice, reasoned comment there :) Fact is, the law is dictatorial on this. If the law says 'must be older than 2 weeks' then the airline has no choice but to refuse to let them fly. It's stupid, inconvenient, and annoying, but that's the law for you. If you have a problem with the situation and how it was handled, then you have a problem with the law, not the airline. I'm sure we wouldn't want airlines to start deciding which laws thay can just ignore because they are 'silly'. --Worm 12:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Certainly there should be leeway. --Proficient 08:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Wedding March[edit]

This is my first time on here, and I have a simple question. Where and how can I get a Free Sheet Music of the regular style "Wedding March" to download and print off?


Mendelssohn's famous Wedding March can be found for free here in various formats. Sum0 21:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

hotel room smell[edit]

Many hotel rooms I've stayed in seem to have a common smell. I'm having trouble describing it, so I'm hoping that someone here is familiar with it. Any ideas on what causes the smell? KeeganB

There is an industrial deodorant used by many, so they can leave the fecal stains and semen stains on the comforters they never change, without anyone smelling it. StuRat 23:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Charming. JackofOz 01:57, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha. KeeganB

Take a black light the next time you're in a hotel. I always bring a sleeping bag to put on top, and you'll find out why. It's probably not logical, but it don't keep me up at night wondering if that's semen or an orange juice spill on my pillow. --mboverload@ 09:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the smell is from the mint they put on your pillow?-gadfium 09:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Or it could be from the dead hooker left under the bed by a previous guest.
Take it from someone who lives in hotels -- it's best not to think about such things. Willful ignorance is the way to survive. :) kmccoy (talk) 14:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

When I go into a hotel room, I strip the semen-stained comforters and pillows off and put them into a pile in the corner, wearing rubber gloves, which I then wash. I then put down a comforter I brought on the bed, as well as my own pillows. Note that this is a lot to bring on a plane, so I typically drive everywhere, for this and many, many other reasons. I sleep on top of my comforter, with it folded over me (it's King Size), and always keep the same "contaminated" side towards the sheets. When I pack the comforter up, I fold it "contaminated" side in. When I get home, the comforter gets washed immediately. StuRat 16:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Obsessive compulsive disorder? Worrying too much about the possibility of being near somebody elses fluids or body is not necessarily a productive way to spend your time--you are likely just fooling yourself into thinking that one bit is "contaminated" and another is somehow not. It's the sort of thing which leads to a Howard Hughes situation if taken too far. But hey -- it's your life, your time, your happiness, so do what you want! I think though that traveling with a full comforter and bed set everywhere you go because you might touch sheets that somebody else once slept on (yet are cleaned daily in industrial-strength washers) seems a little nutty to me, to be frank. --Fastfission 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, sure, the next thing you know you're gonna tell me all my jars of urine are some kind of sign of mental illness ! :-) StuRat 21:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
The comforters are not washed daily, see my comments down below. StuRat 21:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
They smell the same because they use standardized chemicals there, most of them probably for cleaning. Hospitals all smell the same too, as do most swimming pools. --Fastfission 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
It may also be a leaky air conditioner - some of the CFC chemicals may be in the room. Nimur 20:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
What sort of Ninth World country do you guys live in? Fecal stains and semen-stained comforters? Why not vaginal secretions or smegma or menstrual blood or vomit or ... what the hell, maggot-infested placentas? I was under the impression that StuRat's first post was one of his typically sardonic jokes, but I'm horrified that things seem to be far worse in America than anyone ever dared imagine. This is a joke ... right? I can't believe you seriously believe the sanitary standards of your hotels are so bad that you'd spend one second worrying about this. If you do actually believe this: (a) why haven't you contacted your health authorities and your political masters for urgent attention to what you must agree is a major national health catastrophe waiting to happen? (b) why do you stay in such 10th-rate dumps rather than a properly run establishment? (c) Why don't you move to a different country where cleanliness is taken for granted and you don't need to live in fear of your life by just sleeping in a hotel bed? JackofOz 03:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I suspect your country has the same problem. They do clean the sheets and pillowcases for each new occupant (or, at least, they are supposed to), but not the pillows or comforters, and certainly not the mattresses. The pillows probably can't be washed even once, and the comforters only a few times, before they are destroyed by the process, especially if harsh chemicals like bleach are used. The expense of regularly replacing comforters would be prohibitive. The next time you're in a hotel, ask the desk clerk how often the comforters are changed, or better yet, do the black light test so you don't have to trust them and can find all the stains for yourself. This is a dirty little secret hotels don't like to talk about, something like how food companies don't like to show you how hot dogs are made. The health department can't help you, they know about this practice, and it's perfectly legal. They justify it because the chances of you catching a disease from a dried stain are quite low. That, however, doesn't mean I'm happy about sleeping on them. StuRat 21:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't fear for my life when I sleep in a hotel room. I was just curious about the hotel room smell and I got a bunch of replies about feces, semen, and whatever else. KeeganB

Seriously, it is an industrial deodorant, I've smelled it many times in many places. That did naturally bring up the question as to what stinks so badly, though, which led to this discussion. StuRat 21:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Can't this all be solved by taking a nice shower afterwards with plenty of soap? --Proficient 08:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, if you enjoy getting other people's body fluids on you, and/or fecal matter, then washing it off, then go ahead and have fun ! Of course, that shower curtain has the same things on it, so you can get a second coating after you wash the first coat off, LOL. StuRat 19:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, Stu, there really is a God after all. Or you were dead right (whichever is less unlikely). On the way home from work this afternoon, I happened to pick up a copy of the free newspaper "MX" just to see if it had descended to an even greater nadir of trashiness than even I thought possible. There was an article about germ freaks, so naturally I read it. And what should I see but the following:

  • "Dubious sources reveal that David Beckham spends $2500 a month on undies because he won't wear the same pair twice; and Jessica Alba carries a portable black light to pick up "other people's juices" on hotel bedding; and Natalie Appleton left "I'm a Celebrity, Get me Out of Here" because she couldn't use communal toilets (She won't even sit on her own)".

Score 1 for StuRat. JackofOz 12:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

$2500 a month ? That's over $80 per day, does he pay $80 for each pair of undies or does he go through 20 undies a day at a reasonable price for each ? StuRat 19:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe he's wearing these? The rhinestone Versace logo on the leg is a particularly nice touch that certainly makes it worth $80. :-) Crypticfirefly 18:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yep, at $103.20 (did they really need the extra 2 dimes ?) those are expensive enough, in fact a bit more than the $80 per day allotment...perhaps David Beckham "goes commando" one day each week ? I can possibly see paying that much for undies OR throwing cheap undies out each day, but doing both seems just a tad bit decadent. Anyone that crazy is likely to do just about anything, even marry a Spice Girl. StuRat 15:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Val Barker Trophy[edit]

Who named the Val Barker award? Why is this award which is given to the best boxer in the Olympics called that? Thank you.

There don't seem to be any relevant Wikipedia articles, but see -- Rick Block (talk) 00:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Google Camera Hacking[edit] Is this legal? And I've heard you can also print stuff on the other side of the world with Google too. It's creepy what can happen with unsecure networks.... Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 23:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

"the other side of the world" - what, Spain? Grutness...wha? 03:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably perfectly legal --mboverload@ 09:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

And rather fun, as well. --Richardrj 09:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, good stuff

Thanks from me as well. This should provide some entertainment for me tonight. --Proficient 08:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

June 30[edit]

Population of Chechnya[edit]

This article claims (in one of its few non-facetious parts) that the population of Chechnya has dropped from 1.3 million people to 300,000 people over the course of the conflict with Russia. Is there any basis to this figure, or is the eXile just pulling it out of their collective ass? zafiroblue05 | Talk 00:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Do they mean since the break-up of the Soviet Union, because if not then there may be some truth, begin looking at Population transfer in the Soviet Union. I did some research for my social linguistics class on the language policies of the Soviet Union, but was interested in the effects of population transfers. The Soviets forcefully removed people who were potential targets, like the Volga Germans, people in very key areas, most of Crimea especially the Tatars, and people who were rebellious, like the Chechens.-- 01:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
No, they mean over the course of the Second Chechen War. In other words, that 1 million people have died in Chechnya since about 1999. Is there any basis to that? zafiroblue05 | Talk 02:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure it means one million people have died: hundreds of thousands of Chechens have fled the country, mainly to Ingushetia. But eXile certainly isn't the only source to claim there is a genocide going on there. According to the article Second Chechen War, "[i]n 2001 the Holocaust Memorial Museum has placed Chechnya on its Genocide Watch List..." David Sneek 11:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Impossible to say of course but for the other side's POV the official 2002 Russian census admitted that the population of Grozny fell from 399,000 in 1989 (previous census) to 210,000 in 2002, before rising to an estimated 215,000 in 2005. But they dont admit any fall in the total population of Chechnya - they say it rose from 892,000 in 1989 to 1,103,686 in 2002 and an estimated 1,141,362 in 2005). So somebody's lying.Jameswilson 22:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


What do you call this marriage that invovles a person who asks a astrologer to find a spouse of his horoscope or let say he wants to marry a person who was born in same sign for example, he was born in Capricorn and he wants to marry a woman who was born in Capricorn also?

Doomed. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Ha, ha. Name any of the characteristics of any sign and imagine two of these people living together... --Zeizmic 02:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think there's a specific term, unless it's arranged marriage. According to traditional astrology, an ideal partner (all other factors being equal) would be someone of a complementary astrological sign, not the same sign.--Shantavira 06:46, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

A short marriage!

Curtain Material[edit]

I'm interesting in buying some fabric to make a curtain for inside my house. The Curtains needs to be able to block out light, and muffling sound would be nice too. So my question is, what material can serve this purpose, while still being relativly cheap. (By the way, the Curtain needs to be rather large, 170" x 85") Thanks --LBJacob09 00:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Where I live, we have a fashion district, where there are these old stores, chock full of rolls of material, for real cheap. The old ladies in these shops really know their stuff. --Zeizmic 02:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Cancelled U.S. TV talk show from 90's or 00's[edit]

Anyone remember a daytime TV talk show that was similar to The View, but instead the hosts were several guys instead of women? I think one of the hosts was a redhead, with some facial hair. --Uthbrian (talk) 01:13, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, found it. It was "The Other Half". --Uthbrian (talk) 01:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

comic page character[edit]

what was the comic strip in the late 40's to mid 50's that featured a woman that played football and baseball and was always the hero. i seem to recall her name was loweesey.

Was this a U.S. comic strip? I would guess so going by the baseball reference but football could also mean soccer. Dismas|(talk) 08:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know, but that makes me think of Barney Google. ike9898 15:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


Whether you're Catholic,Protestant, or neither, please answer these questions on purgatory:

1.Catholics (and other Christians) believe that if you're a Christian when you die, you go to heaven, and if you're a an unbeliever, you go to hell.If so, then who do they believe will go to purgatory (temporarily) after they die?Some Christians,some non-Christians, or both?

2.The Bible never mentioned such a place, so where did they get the idea from?

3.How come those Catholics don't know that we shouldn't make up ideas that aren't mentioned in the Bible?

4.What do you think of this Catholic idea? 04:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

1.Non serious sinners

2.It is Catholic cannon law.

3.In the law there are statues and written law, judges interpret those statues sometimes broadly, sometimes based on traditions, this is what the Catholic leadership does.

4.It seems merciful since the majority of us are flawed.

Maybe you should check the article on Purgatory. KeeganB

  • Your question has a false premise. It has never been the official Catholic position that unbelievers necessarily go to Hell. JackofOz 06:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
1. According to our article on purgatory, in Roman Catholicism "people who had repented for their sins, but had not expiated ("paid for") them, are purged before entering Heaven." So apparently you have to have repented. It's not absolutely clear whether you have to have a "catholic repention" or if this can mean something else. It's all interpretation anyway.
2. Details are too complex to answer here, but more interpretation and a long history of it. See the article.
3. Most religions cherry pick, interpret, rely on later documents of pious authorities, etc. Short answer: when you have millions of cooks over millennia all stirring and adding ingredients the broth becomes very cloudy indeed.
4. What do I think? All religions are equally as invalid. They are often fascinating, but its not useful to get hung up on the minutia of questions regarding contradictions as religions are full of them.--Fuhghettaboutit 05:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Catholics believe that if you're a Christian when you die, you go to heaven, and if you're a an unbeliever, you go to hell. You should be careful not to overgeneralize things. There's just as many catholics (perhaps even more) who don't think unbelievers go to hell. Besides, there's many things in between unbelievers and Christians (what about someone who believes something else?). - Mgm|(talk) 07:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • In response to the first question, see the following:

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. (Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, Lumen Gentium, chap. 2, November 21, 1964) —Wayward Talk 07:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok this idiot comes on here every day and asks a retorical question. He seems to be trying to change peoples opinions on subjects that he or she clearly has no concept of. for instance, this person is not a catholic, and seems to have some sort of rejedice toward catholics. can some one please ban him/her. Further more, pergatory is spoken about extensivly by jesus after he comes back from the dead. Although most of this is not in the common bible. But saying that, there is ALOT of things that could be inclueded in the bible but are not. to simplify, many many years ago some guys got together and said we have hundreds of books here lets take some that fit with our plans put them together, then lets supress the others hence the bible was developed. not to mention the vast inacuracies that have occured over the centuries through amlicious tampering as well as bad translation. now fuck off. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) .

Please suitly emphazi your amlicious rejedice.  :--) JackofOz 03:12, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

When I said 'unbeliever', I actually meant all non-Christians.

I don't want to answer these questions,it would be purgatorial to me to get in a pointless religious debate! hotclaws**==( 06:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC))

This weird thing in jam![edit]

I bought some jam from a farmer's market today, and upon opening it I discovered a large, half-inch-thick white disc of solid matter. It slides out effortlessly and the jam hasn't suffered for it -- but what the heck is this thing?

That sounds like paraffin wax to me. I think its main use is a sealant and therefore a preservative. JackofOz 06:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Yep, it's paraffin. Go ahead and discard it. The seal has been broken by you taking it off so it no longer is needed. Dismas|(talk) 08:48, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The use of paraffin is very traditional. It keeps the mold off, when using loose lids. Now, when you make jam, you use the modern 'pop' lids, and boil your jam jars to create a vacuum. --Zeizmic 11:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Paraffin wax is a traditional method of sealing jars, used long before modern canning methods were invented. The jar is filled with jam, and then hot melted paraffin is poured on top of the jam. The wax is lighter than the jam, so it floats on top, but because it is liquid, it finds its way into every little crevasse, forcing air out. When the wax cools, it becomes solid, and the jam is preserved because there is no air in contact with it. (My mom used to make jam like this.) — Michael J 18:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Sydney Olympics[edit]

Did Sydney's civic economy benefit from hosting the 2000 Summer Olympics? 07:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Depends on who you ask. The trouble is that most of the economic analysis is done by interested parties; much of the less sophisticated stuff falls prety to the broken window fallacy. However, if you do a Google search for sydney olympic economic impact" a whole bunch of relevant links turn up. --Robert Merkel 10:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
FWIW, Between about 1997 and now, many New Zealand builders moved to Sydney because of the huge upswing in building in the Sydney area. This upswing is only now starting to die down. Any city which shows an increase in public and civic building work for an entire decade has to have had some gains in its economy. Grutness...wha? 03:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Two points - firstly, it's debatable how much of that was due to the Olympics (the biggest housing bubble Australia has ever seen had a lot to do with it), and secondly at least some of that building displaced other economic activity (again, broken window fallacy). The building boom was an Australia-wide thing - heck, even the Tasmanian economy, which has basically been in recession for 30 years, got a big boost. --Robert Merkel 10:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Information about university students[edit]

What is the name of the latest IT system being used by uni students - especially in the USA - to communicate with each other. Apparently, each uni has their own database on their students and each student (who wants to) will put their details on so that they can meet other "like minded people". Any answers would be much appreicate. Muriel Eliz

Facebook?.... --mboverload@ 09:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Going around the world without using planes[edit]

A dream of mine has always been to travel the world without using planes. Don't ask me why, I just think they're boring. It's more in the spirit of adventure if you go by car/boat/train/walk. So I have a two questions:

  • Would it be possible to go through the Caribbean by boat? Like, are there ferries between some of the closer islands?
  • I live in Australia, so would it be possible to travel from Darwin to Indonesia or Port Moresby somehow? The Torres Strait doesn't seem to wide, I was thinking maybe I could island-hop across it somehow.

Oh and I know you can travel as a passenger on freighters, but that's almost as boring as airline travel (plus you have to book it months in advance). So no container ships.

And I also know this is naive, but it's just a pipeline dream. Indulge me.

For research, and entertainment too, I'd recommend getting the DVD of Michael Palin: Around the World in 80 Days. Notinasnaid 11:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

what a beautiful idea, i cant answer your question, but travelling acn be really bad if done alone, if you ever want a partner on your fillious fogesk travel, look me up.Anton 13:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Many people have done it, using boats balloons, bicycles, on foot, taxis, hitch-hiking and etc all the way round the world. Usually you will need some sort of help gaining visas and help through areas of on-going conflict. But thats about all. Philc T[[User:Philc

0780/Esperanza|E]]CI 13:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Another thought has occured to me, though: is it really as simple as just rmabling where the breeze takes you, with no schedule and no deadlines? Or would you have to arrange for visas and stuff BEFORE leaving for the trip. Even if I could do it on the go, it would probably still take time... besides, is it possible to remain in a country indefinitely? Because I went to Bali once and my passport says I could stay for only 60 days or something. That's fine for just a two-week holiday, but while backpacking there are some countries (like the US) I could easily spend months in.
Visa requirements mean you need careful research and immaculate planning. Most countries apply limits, whether or not a formal visa is required. Of course, Michael Palin had a BBC department sorting these things out for him, so we can expect he had a rather smoother ride than most people. Bear in mind too that travelling overland is likely to take you through war zones, and through countries where it is extremely dangerous to have your nationality (whatever it might be). Notinasnaid 23:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
There can't be that many war zones, except in Africa... as for my nationality, I'm an Aussie. I could pretend to be a Kiwi if I was in a hot zone, and I'm wise enough not to openly display my nationality (unlike that idiot on The Amazing Race who was wearing an AMERICAN FLAG BANDANA in the MIDDLE EAST.)

If you stow away on a sailboat and land on a beach or something and walk across the country, you don't exactly need a visa, especially if 1) You don't look too much like a foreign tourist. 2) The country doesn't have much of an organized border guard. --Froth 06:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

trying to understand weird Asian(Japanese) (supernatural) soccer video on net,plus language (Spanish) problem[edit]

I found a video on the web, Japanese soccer.wmv , which appears to come from (however doesn't look like the most trustworthy site).

It shows two Asian teams, presumably Japanese, one in red shirts and another in yellow shirts, playing some form of soccer against each other. However one of them makes an impossibly high jump, and another one then kicks the ball into the goal very hard. Some guys in red shirts also gather around one in yellow and close him in (preventing him from interfering in the game), which I thought wasn't exactly allowed by the rules of normal soccer. They also make salto's to kick the ball.

In the very end, (last second) one player in yellow says something which is subtitled :"Si usamos Kung-fu Shaolin para jugar al futbol" I guess this means something like "If we use Shaolin Kung fu, we will rule football"?

So please enlighten me, what on earth is this?Evilbu 13:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Is it the movie Shaolin Soccer? Which basically consists of impossible martial arts that you would normally find in something like House of the Flying Daggers, put to use in football matches. Of course its not real, its a movie. Philc TECI 13:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I find there's some criticism on Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon not being "real" martial arts, but most of those people would watch movies like X-Men, which feature superhuman feats as well. --ColourBurst 17:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
It's the blatently impossible physics of it that gets me, they just float off the ground, they don't appear to jump, or fall correctly, its so fake. Philc TECI 22:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is very likely what I meant. Thanks. Is it good..or dumb? Evilbu 15:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Good or dumb is an opinion. It's supposed to be humourous, and it has a 90% fresh rating on rottentomatoes if you go by that standard. If you do like Stephen Chow though, try Kung Fu Hustle as well, which isn't about soccer. --ColourBurst 17:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Extra note: it's not Japanese, it's Chinese. Europeans wouldn't like it if they were mistaken for American all the time, either. --ColourBurst 17:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Well 2001: a space travesty is also considered to be funny, while it isn't. Perhaps I will still give Kung Fu Hustle and this one a chance if the opportunity arises. I myself don't even like to be mistaken for a German of a French man! I am well aware of the tensions between China and Japanese and the differences, that is why, even though the file was called Japanese soccer.wmv I still wrote Asian and Japanese between brackets, it irks me too when people post funny Japanese stuff on the net and say "Those silly Chinese..." Evilbu 19:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, your subtitles actually mean "We use Shaolin Kung-Fu to play football". smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 15:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Broken Window[edit]

Is the Parable of the broken window just an example of the Multiplier effect? I'm not sure as the multiplier effect article doesn't seem to tally with what I understood it to be, but I may have misunderstood it. Thanks. Philc TECI 13:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The fallacy in understanding inherent in the Parable is that the broken window has some sort of multiplicative effect, when in reality there is merely an opportunity cost. To put it another way, nothing demonstrates that spending on glaziers instead of whatever the money would have been spent on had the glass not been broken, would cause more benefit (a bigger multiplier). So, it is not an example, nor is it mutually exclusive. If that help. --Tagishsimon (talk)
Yes, I think they are similar. In both cases, I would argue that there are a few special cases where such an action will benefit society, but in general it will not. For example, if the shopkeeper had excess money stuffed in his mattress, and the town had high unemployment, then breaking his window to force him to spend some of his money would help everyone else, at the expense of the shopkeeper. If the shopkeeper doesn't have excess money, or has it invested in other things, and the town has full employment, then nobody will benefit, and everyone will lose, from the broken window.
In the example of building a new stadium, if there is no current usable stadium, and there is significant demand for one, and the government has excess money, and no other good way to spend it, and no possible way to give it back to the taxpayers, then a government financed stadium might make sense. However, if there is an old stadium which can be renovated for a fraction of the cost, or insufficient demand for a new stadium, or the government lacks the money or has other things they need to spend money on or has a way to give back all this money burning a hole in their pockets, then building a new stadium on the taxpayer's dime makes no sense. Unfortunately, lobbyists for the developers who will benefit from the project, and government representatives in their pockets, frequently use bad economic theory to justify virtually any misuse of taxpayer dollars. If the stadium was really such a great investment, private donors would be willing to finance it 100% in return for projected future profits from restaurants and hotels they would build in the area. In fact, the stadium builders should also be forced to build up the roads in the area, at their expense, to support the increased traffic volume. StuRat 17:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you recommend a open source (or just free) graphics/photo editor?[edit]

I'm not a graphics person and I'm not a computer person, I just need software that I can run on Windows to do some photo editing and 2-D graphics. I've run across GIMP and the Draw program in Open Office, but I've never tried either. Can you please recommend a program the isn't buggy and would be usable by someone of moderate graphics and computer skills? ike9898 15:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Photofiltre sounds like what you need. It has decent editing power and it's pretty quick to learn. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 16:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
For the most basic operations (viewing, resizing, converting), I strongly recommend IrfanView. For actual image editing, I personally use Paint.NET or GIMP. (I'm sure lots of people would disagree with me on this point, if not accusing me of being a Microsoft shill ;-) , but I actually find myself preferring Paint.NET to GIMP more and more often, mainly because GIMP runs more slowly on my low-end machine than the native-for-windows Paint.NET.) —Caesura(t) 03:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I use Gimp, It is a bit hard to learn but it is worth it. Jon513 19:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Bounty hunters in old times[edit]

How did bounty hunters operate in the days before modern times? I mean, today fugitives can be traced because of technology; they'll show up if they use a credit card , and information can be easily passed to law enforcement agencies across the world via telephone and Internet. But how were fugitives traced back in the 1700 and 1800s, or even the early 20th century? Its eems to me that as soon as they fled the srea they'd be lost forever.

Spreading photos (or drawings before photography) around to other towns would help people recognize them, especially if there was a large enough reward to make it worth their time to memorize the face, check everyone they see, and notify the authorities if they find a match. Some outlaws were foolish enough to continue using their original names, as well, which made finding them a lot easier. Identifying marks, like scars and tattoos, were also as useful then as they are now. StuRat 17:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Other outlaws stayed in one area, in public view, counting on their gang having more firepower than the authorities. StuRat 17:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I guess technology got smarter as fugitives got smarter. Also, I've heard about how when slaves ran away, there'd be professional bounty hunters paid to catch them. —THIS IS MESSEDR with umlaut.pngOCKER (TALK) 04:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
But how did they know which way the slaves would run? How did they find them? The slaves could just disappear into the bushes, take a new identity and never be seena again. 14:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
In the US, most slaves would run north, where they could be free. Any black could be stopped by slave hunters, and if the slave wouldn't give them the name of their owner or show papers saying they were free, they would be taken prisoner. If their original owners were never identified, the slaves would be resold to new owners, instead. StuRat 19:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC) At that time people where less ,mobile, and moved slower and less distances.

Forgotten Realms Gods and names of their followers[edit]

I am currently trying my hand at writing a fantasy novel which takes place in the world of the Forgotten Realms, which is based off of the game Dungeons & Dragons. In the Forgotten Realms, there are Gods and priests. I've managed to find a website that provides a list of all the Gods in the Forgotten Realms, but not the names of their priests (or clerics, if you will). For example, a priest of the God Lathander is called a Morninglord of Lathander. However, that is the only name I know.

What I am specifically looking for is the name of: 1. a priest of Talos 2. a priest of Chauntea (if possible) 3. Paladin of Lathander (if possible) 4. Paladin of Chauntea (if possible) 5. Paladin of Illmater.

That's the specifics. Any other names of the priests (such as a follower of Mystra or Sune) are also welcome.

Thank you for your time and effort!

-Daniel Wheeler

Well, you might want to start by checking out our article on Lathander which includes a paragraph specifically about the titles:
Novice clerics in the Lathanderian faith are called the Awakened, and they gain the title of Dawnbringer upon becoming full priests. In ascending order of rank, the titles in general use by the Dawnbringers are Dawngreeter, Dawnlord (the church does not use feminine form of titles often), High Dawnlord, Dawnmaster, Morninglord, High Morninglord, Morningmaster, High Morningmaster, and Sunrise Lord.
Similarily, our articles on Talos, Chauntea, Ilmater, Mystra and Sune could also be of help. --Maelwys 17:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Nothing to do with your question, but you haven't forgotten that Forgotten Realms is copyright, and that if you want to make money publishing this novel you'll need permission? DJ Clayworth 17:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The novel could of course just be fan fiction. GeeJo (t)(c) • 03:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of an internet phrase?[edit]

I'm curious as to the origin/meaning of the phrase/meme "JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR" (seen here. I've also seen this same meme in an illustrated form, but with a timpani substituted for the lion. If anyone could help me with the origin of this phrase, that would be helpful. Thank you,--Antimatter Spork 18:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The phrase originates from this webcomic. I haven't been able to figure out where the >:3 ASCII version comes from. Hope that helps.-- 21:06, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, thanks. --Antimatter Spork 03:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
This joke is used on lecture note handouts in a natural sciences class at Cambridge University.

sockpuppets on parade[edit]

HI, there appears to be a (large) number of sockpuppets involved in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/What Really Happened (2nd nomination). I looked to WP:ANI first, but they seem to have a 3 week backlog and an AfD is a little more time-sensitive than that. I know that in other AfDs the remarks of confirmed sockpuppets have been struck out; it seems to be appropriate in this case, but I'm not sure where to turn for help. Can you point me in the right direction? --Doc Tropics 18:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

ok, thanks. --Doc Tropics 21:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Basking shark[edit]

We're always told they're not dangerous to humans, but...

...what would happen if you swam right the fuck into that?

You'd have a unique but very brief experience? great image! --Doc Tropics 18:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The world would be down 1 idiot. Russian F 19:45, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
From an evolutionary point of view, that's only useful if it occurs before the individual has reproduced. Otherwise the 'idiot' gene is passed on to another generation. --Doc Tropics 20:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't you have any chance? Won't he vomit you back out or something?Evilbu 20:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, seriously guys, what happens? Does he (she?) close the jaws or what? --The Gold Miner 20:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
According to