# Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/October 2004 III

## "AIDS from Britain" theory?

After writing much of the article on Philip Emeagwali, I occasionally search Google News to see what he's been up to. In this speech, he makes the rather interesting claim that, due to racism, the world's scientists have grossly misinterpreted the scientific evidence on the origins of AIDS. His preferred hypothesis is that AIDS originated in Britain and was spread to Africa by David Carr, the first known human carrier of the disease who died in 1959.

Has anybody else heard this hypothesis floated before, and by if so by whom and when? --Robert Merkel 20:56, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I haven't heard the theory. But, of course, us British do have a noble tradition of invention. So, if indeed AIDS is made in Britain I shouldn't be at all surprised and it will add to my reasons for bowing and scraping in an unseemly manner in front of an over-privileged, utterly useless family of flappy jawed spongers. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)]] 21:48, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)
• So do we Australians. We are also in favour in bowing and scraping in an unseemly manner in front of an over-privileged, utterly useless family of flappy-jawed spongers. It's just that these days our (recently reelected..grrrrr) government prefers the Bush family :) :/ --Robert Merkel 22:22, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Amusing Scientific Instruments

1. I'm writing a bit of stand up comedy. And I wondered if some of the more scientifically inclined of you could point me in the direction of amusingly named scientific instruments.
2. As a follow up question: what's that thing that you put your hands on the globe and your hair goes up? I thought it was a Van der Graaf Generator (and, yes, I KNOW it's a band too, but I thought they'd got their name from it, but apparently not).

--[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)]] 21:48, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)

Try Van de Graaff generator for starters. Oh, and here's a page on historical physics apparatus if you feel like browsing: [1]. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 21:58, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What about the Penile plethysmograph? Though some of the uses that this device have been put to are, shall we say, distinctly less than amusing. More generally, my favourite unintentionally funny bit of labelling with a scientific/mathematical implication is washing powder in Australia. A few years ago, all of them began to have standard government labelling in one of two categories "P" and "NP". I was hoping that the "NP" one would be able to cope with intractable stains (maybe by trying all possible ways to get the clothes clean and applying the one that suceeds), but no such luck. In fact, they performed pretty much the same, which went completely against my expectations!
If the (alleged) humor of the above is lost on you (and it probably is unless you're a CS geek), have a quick look at Complexity classes P and NP. Not a gag for a general audience... :) --Robert Merkel 22:31, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Nipple and screw extractors? Not exactly scientific tools, but... -- Jmabel | Talk 23:08, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)
Sphygmomanometer is a fun word to say...also it has the benefit of being more funny if you don't know what it is. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 23:55, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for those. The penile plethysmograph and the nipple and screw extractors are a bit too sledgehammery. And the sphygmomanometer... well, the idea is that I build the device into a stand-up comedy set. So, I don't really want something I'm liable to be unable to say without stumbling over the word. Any more? --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)]] 17:48, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Funniest device-name ever - Wankel Rotary Engine.

## Name of a song

What's the name of this song? Kieff | Talk 13:17, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

I think it is Enter the Gladiators, or more correctly Einzug der Gladiatoren by Czech composer, Julius Fučík. Slightly bizarre, given that it now usually accompanies the appearance of the clowns in a circus performance. -- Solipsist 15:20, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Note to self — must try turning down the sound on the DVD of Gladiator (2000 movie) and playing this over Russell Crowe's entrance to the Colosseum. :) -- Solipsist 15:33, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Kokopelli wallet by Kingport or Kluge

I passed up a chance this last summer to buy a ladies wallet from the souvenier store at Carlsbad Caverns, NM. The wallet was distributed by Kingport or Kluge and had an image of Kokopelli on one side. I've tried to find this available as a mail-order item without success so far. Can someone give me some pointers to find it available online or by telephone? - [[User:Bevo|Bevo]] 13:57, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

How about this link? I found this on Froogle using this search I just realized that there was a distributor requirement on that request.--Cvaneg 20:24, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for doing the search. That one is similar, but without handles. I'm finding that sometimes the item I'm looking for is called a "clutch". - [[User:Bevo|Bevo]] 13:22, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## OpenFilm: could we do it together?

Hi Wikipedians, I'm the OpenFilm's staff coordinator.

OpenFilm is a new Open Project which aims to create an open database about films.

To create OpenFilm we are inspiring to Wikipedia. We think Wikipedia is wonderful and we would like to link our project with yours: you know, the main difficult is not to create the project (DB, web pages) but to startup it correctly (create the community and let people know us).

Could you help me???

The OpenFilm's Staff

I'm sure there's people at Wikipedia:WikiProject Movies who want to help out. Maybe you get a better response if you try and ask there. -- [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 17:44, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

## Name of a literary device

I was watching Smallville last week, and wondering: is there a specific term for the literary device wherein future events that the audience is already aware of are suggested in some way? For instance, when Lex Luthor tells Clark Kent "Our friendship will be the stuff of legends," Clark saying he doesn't like flying, Chloe telling Clark that yellow and red really aren't his colors, Lois Lane expressing a disinterest in reporting, etc. These involve some irony, but there have been others that weren't necessarily ironic. It's not really foreshadowing; it seems more of a direct appeal to the audience, and depends on their knowledge of what is to come. Is there a term for this? -- Wapcaplet 18:02, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

When the audience/reader knows something the characters do not, that's dramatic irony. This appears to be a bit of a mix of dramatic irony and foreshadowing - ironic foreshadowing, perhaps, because the characters are expressing their expectation that things will turn out the opposite of the way they actually do. Ðåñηÿßôý | Talk 18:13, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Mathematics tree

I'm looking for rather complete tree scheme of mathematics, its subdivisions and etc. Something like:

Mathematics -> Topology
|
v
Arithmetics


I dunno, you get the idea? We could even use something like that on mathematics, would be rather interesting Kieff | Talk 04:05, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

A mathematics taxonomy ? No problem. Here's one ... and another one ... and yet another one. All diligently crafted and carefully thought out. All different. Rumour has it that there is a comprehensive and absolutely definitive taxonomy of mathematics, stored right next to the Holy Grail. Gandalf61 11:44, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
Ahh, so that's what taxonomy is! Thanks.
Where can I find more about this rumour, btw? Kieff | Talk 03:41, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
I think the rumour started at 11.44, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC). -Rholton 04:09, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Rabbit model used in Computer Vision

Has anyone heard of a "standard" model of a rabbit (I think) that is used in computer vision and modelling systems? Kinda like the Utah Teapot? -- Alphax (Talk)

You mean the Stanford Bunny? No article on that yet; see http://graphics.stanford.edu/software/scanview/models/bunny.html --JRM 16:50, 2004 Oct 18 (UTC)
I interviewed Levoy once for a Stanford Daily article. Salasks 22:46, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
That's the one. I'll add it to my watchlist. -- Alphax 23:25, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

## Coords of Beijing

What are the coordinates of Beijing, China? The Beijing article does not appear to list them. --User:Juuitchan

Assuming you mean longitude and latitude, the coordinates are (39, 55 N) (116, 25 E). Skyler 19:23, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
To make the units clearer (and change one of the values trivially) the coordinates for Beijing are 39 degrees 55 minutes 44 seconds North and 116 degrees 23 minutes 18 seconds East - Adrian Pingstone 15:49, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## What are the names of the Correctional Facilities in Canandaigua?

Well, according to the this list from the New York State Department of Corrections there are no prisons (which are the correctional factilies that tend to have names) in Canadaigua. However, there is a county jail for Ontario County on this list, but like most county jails, it is simply referred to as Ontario County Jail. Whether or not there is a commonly used nickname for this facility, I couldn't tell you -- Cvaneg 21:21, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but Ontario County Jail is called Ontario County Jail or Ontario County Correctional Facility. The jails that have "nicknames" such as Sing Sing (which isn't a nickname... it was just what it was named upon opening), are generally state or federal prisons and they get different names because they can't be named after the city or county they are located in. Ontario County Jail is the only correctional facility in Canandaigua. Skyler 21:46, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
I should clarify that this was not my question, and I was actually trying to repond to the original poster who did not have anything in the question body. --Cvaneg 22:16, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Referencing information from this website

Could someone please help me to find the author/s to this page? http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Donkey From my understanding, these pages can be edited/updated by anyone, so therefore how would i get a list of the authors? Thankyou for any help, Courtney

• Wordiq.com is one of many "mirror sites" of Wikipedia. The entry is a direct replication from here. So click on Donkey and go the page history to find out who the author's were (there have been many). Skyler 23:06, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
• Not to mention that at the very bottom of the Wordiq.com article there's a link The list of authors can be found here which links back to the Wikipedia Donkey history page. -- Arwel 02:22, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Alternatively, if you are looking for the authors for the purpose of citing the work in a paper or report you are doing, you may want to look at Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia instead. --Cvaneg 23:30, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Good point. Skyler 23:42, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
Aha, our Frequently Asked Question again! Intrigue 00:04, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Marguerite Yourcenar Quote

What does this Marguerite Yourcenar quote mean? "On ne doit plus craindre les mots lorsqu'on a consenti aux choses." Is it roughly "One should not fear words more than one has agreed to the things"? I'm totally confused ... Please help! Thanks, Gelu Ignisque

"You must no longer fear the words, since you have agreed to the things" (presumably the things named by the words; more context is needed to understand what things she is talking about). Gdr 07:45, 2004 Oct 19 (UTC)

## Capacitance of a cylindrical capacitor

Is there a specific formula for the capacitance of a cylindrical capacitor, or the equation ${\displaystyle C=\epsilon _{0}\epsilon _{r}{\frac {A}{d}}}$ applies here as well? Kieff | Talk 06:34, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

Not quite. For a cylinder it's ${\displaystyle C={\frac {2\pi \epsilon _{r}\epsilon _{0}L}{\ln(b/a)}}}$, where L is the length of the cylinder, and a and b are the radii of the inner and outer plates. -- DrBob 20:13, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I was looking for a roll-on cylindrical capacitor... I can't find it anywhere! All I'm finding is exercises that just say "using Gauss' Law, find the equation of this capacitance"... Kieff | Talk 21:32, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
I found it. The sushi-like rolled capacitors can be considered flat parallel capacitors, so the equation does apply :). By the way, someone who's more knowledgeable upon this subject should add the above cylindrical capacitance equation to our capacitor article. Kieff | Talk 03:50, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

## Churches facing Jerusalem?

I'm not sure where I heard this, but I distinctly remember hearing once that churches (at least in the Catholic tradition) are built facing Jerusalem. Is this true? --Penta 20:01, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Certainly not in general. Roman Catholic churches are, more often than not, aligned with the compass points. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:08, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
Churches often do face east. This comes from the tradition that, in Southern Europe at least, Jerusalem is to the east. The Word 'to orient' comes from the fact that churches are oriented to The Orient. Of course, there is symbolism about the rising sun too. There is a theory that (because churches often do not align directly east) they are aligned to face the sunrise on the saint's day that they are consecrated for. Wordsworth notes this in 1823, there is also stuff about a Scottish Masonic tradition. try this. Intrigue 20:19, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yes, I suppose the "facing east" tradition does relate to Jerusalem, never thought about it, but the tendency is to face due east, not in the precise direction of Jerusalem (unlike Muslims facing Mecca to pray). -- Jmabel | Talk 21:14, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
Early Christian churches often faced Jerusalem, based in part (as I recall) on the tradition that the Second Coming of Jesus would occur on the Mount of Olives. A prominent example, as I recall, is the building once known as Hagia Sophia in Istanbul -- I remember seeing a picture of its internal layout once (it's now a mosque) that showed the praying Muslims are not aligned with the building's axis. The explanation given was that the building was aligned to Jerusalem when built, but that praying to Mecca meant that worshippers didn't face the front wall directly, but at a slight angle. I believe I saw this in Kenneth Clark's Civilisation film series, but it may have simply been in a college lecture. Wish I had more data and less recollections, though. Jwrosenzweig 21:23, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
A google search provided a number of sites agreeing with me, though I didn't find any of them authoritative enough that they're worth quoting here (searching at Google for 'Christian church "facing Jerusalem" will provide what I found). I will check some of my reference materials at home to see if a better source can be found. Jwrosenzweig 21:29, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This tradition is no longer followed, atleast not in the new world. Around here, catholic churches face the street they are on, for example, Cathedral Basilica of St. Joseph (San Jose) faces west, while my church in Saratoga, California faces north, and is shaped like a hexagon. Gentgeen 22:54, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Many British churches were built so that the sun would rise and come through the main entrance at dawn on the feast day of the saint the church was named for. When the calendar change in 1752 occurred, this threw churches out of alignment. I've read that some churches later put additions on to be aligned once more, but the "crooked churches of England" has a whiff of apocrypha about it. PedanticallySpeaking 14:07, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

## speed of passenger airline travel

I am wondering if the average speed of normal, passenger airline travel has increased in recent decades, let's say 1960 to now. Is travel from Los Angeles to New York any quicker today than it was in 1980?? ike9898 20:52, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

The major advance in airliner speed since the 1940s is jet propulsion. The first jet airliner was introduced in 1949 (see jetliner), but it took a number of years to phase out the old models. I checked a few articles on early jetliners and found them to be remarkably short on specifications, but IIRC they had cruise speeds of 400-500 miles per hour. Modern designs range between 500 and nearly 600 miles per hour; large models are a bit faster than small ones. If you're looking for information about things like air traffic control efficiency, flight patterns, airport streamlining, etc., I can't help you. --Smack 05:13, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
They had Concorde in 1980, they don't now. Speeds have come down! Dunc| 17:03, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
For quite a while, airliners have flown at speeds around 90% of the speed of sound. Concorde not withstanding, it generally hasn't been seen as being economically viable to design passenger planes which can break the sound barrier (although there are some plans for future supersonic airliners). So there hasn't been much change in the average cruise speed for the last twenty years or so. However, there has been considerable effort put into developing more efficient engines and aircraft designs. As such the range of airliners has increased, so it is now possible to get non-stop flights to more destinations. If you are travelling to an airport that used to require a refuelling stop but now doesn't, there can be a significant saving in the total time required for the flight (probably saves about two hours). -- Solipsist 23:45, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Election night

I'm considering staying up to watch the US presidential results on election night. Can anyone tell me at roughly what time did American television channels initially declare Gore/Bush the winner of Florida? [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 22:00, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

According to this timeline Florida was initially called for Gore at 7:50 PM EST. I don't know how valid that reference is, but my vauge recolection of the election agrees with that approximate time. Incidentally, you'd probably be better off getting your sleep rather than staying up, as I imagine this coming election will be just as contentious if not more so than the last. At the very least, I don't forsee either candidate conceding defeat until all ballots are counted, which usually does not happen till early the next day anyway.--Cvaneg 22:22, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Cheers, I think I can afford to stay up to 01:00 GMT [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն 13:41, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Though they often declare candidates to have won before they actually have results, the polls generally close in most states at 8 PM. To find out the actual result of the election is 2000, you would have had to stay up for about 3 weeks. I often don't trust the initial reports (especially when it is before polls technically close) in battleground states, anyway. That's just me, though. Skyler 13:49, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)
8 PM? Gosh that's early! In UK general elections the polls stay open until 10 PM. -- Arwel 01:24, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Well, they do open at 7 AM... if you can't find fifteen free minutes in that span of time to get out and vote, your life is entirely too busy. Still, if I had my druthers, "Election Day" would last for at least two days, and polls would be open for a full 24 hours... Garrett Albright 04:42, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Well, UK general elections open at 7 AM too -- we like to give people plenty of chance to vote, and they can always apply in advance for a postal vote if they absolutely can't get to a polling station. And the BBC usually declares the winners at 10:00:01 PM, though there's the fun of staying up to 3 or 4 AM to watch the individual results, especially when the major candidates get humiliated by the Official Monster Raving Loony Party candidate standing behind them! The annual UK local elections have polls open from 8 AM to 9 PM. -- Arwel 23:14, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In most states, you can vote early, if you want. Voting at the polls in Florida is already a few days under way, and here in Washington State, where almost half the people vote by mail, most of those who do so have already received their ballots. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:53, Oct 21, 2004 (UTC)
It should be noted that, in most states in the US, absentee ballots are ludicrously easy to get, and are more and more common. One state (Oregon I believe) does only postal voting, something which will make election night absolutely strange. However, more directly: 7-8PM is the standard in each time zone, and this requirement is dictated in part by the fact that elections occur in early November, and darkness hits very early in lots of the US by then. You risk Meaning, if you're on the East Coast of the US, election night is an all-night affair as you wait for final returns to come in from the Pacific Coast, as while it usually takes mere minutes for projections to be released, the actual counts take hours. Hawaii and Alaska, Thank God, are (typically...after 2000 I hesitate to set any rules...) electorally insignificant. This is a Good Thing only because they are several hours off of even Pacific time. The results are usually not in until early Wednesday from those states, and life would be even more miserable for political junkies if Guam was a state. As is, I advise foreign people to be very gentle to Americans the next day, even if the election comes off fine; We'll be up all night this year, and thus rather sleep-deprived. --Penta 01:38, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Polls in Kentucky and Indiana are the first in the country to close, doing so at 6 PM. However, western parts of both states (the areas around Bowling Green, Kentucky, Owensboro, Kentucky, Evansville, Indiana, and Gary, Indiana) are in the Central Time Zone and would close at 7 PM Eastern. A few more close at seven and in my state of Ohio they close at 730 PM, having opened at 630 AM. PedanticallySpeaking 14:10, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
• As for voting by post, Oregon residents no longer go to the polls as the entire election is done by mail. In some states, any person can get an absentee ballot just by asking. In California, voters can request to be permanent absentee voters, meaning they automatically get a ballot by mail. In Ohio, one must have a reason as delinated on the form here. Among them: you are at least sixty-two, in jail (but not prison), out of the county, disabled, a fireman on duty, and working the polls. There is no process to check this, however, so if you claimed to be out of the county, no one could stop you. In West Virginia, if you claim you are disabled and can't get to the polls, you must present a note from your doctor verifying this. PedanticallySpeaking 14:16, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

## punctuation question

which is correct....

what's at stake

or

whats at stake?

(this is used as the opening line to a paragraph in a promotional brochure)

thank you.

"What's" Chameleon 22:56, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I believe "What's" would be correct, as in "What is at stake." I'm not even sure that "whats" without the apostrophe is a word. --Cvaneg 23:17, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Its only potential use, as far as I can postulate, is in casual speech or writing -- people talk about the "whys and hows" of doing things, so I suppose a use for "whats" can be envisioned (though I admit I can't think of any reasonable example at present). Jwrosenzweig 23:30, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
But shouldn't one use apostrophes for plurals of words: "why's and how's"? mat_x 08:51, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
No. To quote from the apostrophe article: "its role in pluralization of symbols has led to a modern tendency to use the apostrophe incorrectly to form plurals of words, ... such as the movie title Dating Do's and Don'ts in which the first apostrophe is erroneous". Gandalf61 11:16, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)
Maybe. Wikipedia's article notwithstanding, many guides allow its use to pluralize words "not normally admitting of a plural" (which is the quote that's stuck in my head from one guide), meaning words other than nouns, including proper nouns and adjectives used as nouns. As I recall the example was "no if's, and's or but's", so "who's, what's, where's, when's and why's" would follow, I think. It's ultimately up to you to decide whether whether your readers will figure out what you mean; "dos" even in lower case is a well-known acronym, but "don't's" looks like some dialectical "doughnuts". The Dating movie's producers may have chosen the least evil. At any rate, in the example, "What's" is certainly short for "what is" and certainly needs the apostrophe. Sharkford 13:28, 2004 Oct 20 (UTC)
Maybe indeed. Now I'm around some books, Eats, Shoots and Leaves tells us "do's and don't's", while Bryson's Troublesome Words advises "dos and don'ts". mat_x 13:52, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In practice it's probably a question of clear communication. In general, what's meaning "what is" is so common that I think it would be a mistake to ever use it as the plural of what. Where's and who's are even more clear-cut—if you intend for either to be a plural than it had better be exceedingly obvious from context! If's, and's, and but's are different in that one never contracts "and is", "if is" or "but is". In the example in question, though, the apostrophe almost certainly indicates a contraction of "what is", so all this debating is not strictly relevant (although very interesting). [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 17:12, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Of course, also note that What's should be capitalized, and don't forget the question mark! Garrett Albright 01:03, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

'Whats and whyfores' would be the only phrase I can think of. Mark Richards 18:00, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## The Ravaged: Vanity page?

The Ravaged and the member links on that page are too close to vanity articles for my taste. The band hasn't produced any records, google only gives one link, to a site that appears to be of lots of bands trying to get their demo tapes out. Also, the IP who created the articles for the band and its members is swedish, just as the band. (Not that this necessarily suggests someone involved with the band is creating the pages, it does make sense for a beginning band to only have fans in their immediate environment. Still, it does show that this isn't a well-known band). Could anyone a little more familiar with swedish hard rock comment? --fvw 12:07, 2004 Oct 20 (UTC)

You best submit this to Votes for Deletion. The people who come there have experience with this kind of things and are undoubtedly willing to offer you their expertise. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 18:03, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

## Breathing Ionized air

I am seeking any information with reliable source, preferably scientific, that provides information on the effects of breathing negatively and/or positively ionized air, on humans or animals.

Thank you.

Harry

I did a MEDLINE search on the topics, and found lots of studies. Too much, really, for a non-specialist (i.e. me) to wade through in a reasonable time...so I looked for a review paper, and stumbled upon a 2002 review article (with 131 references) that seems exactly what is needed here (and might make a good starting point for a Wikipedia article on the topic): N. Goldstein, "Reactive oxygen species as essential components of ambient air," Biochemistry (Moscow) 67 (2), 161-170 (2002). Abstract:
In this review evidence for the presence of the anion radical O2(-*) in atmospheric air is considered, and the biological activity of superoxide and negative air ions is compared. Various aspects of the biological effect of superoxide and other reactive oxygen species contained in air at the cell, tissue, and organism levels are discussed. The results of the therapeutic use of exogenous gaseous superoxide and low doses of H2O2 for the treatment of bronchial asthma, pain, and Parkinson's disease are reported. A hypothesis on the mechanism of physiological action of exogenous reactive oxygen species is discussed.
I emailed a PDF of the article to the original poster, and would be happy to send a copy to anyone else who wants to write a Wikipedia article on the subject (put a note on my Talk page). —Steven G. Johnson 17:56, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

The difference between running on the road and on a treadmill is obvious momentum - you do not have momentum on a treadmill. How does this affect the speed you run? Is there an equation to work out what a comparable speed that would be run on a smooth road? --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 19:32, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Why do you think you don't have momentum? Momentum = mass * velocity. When you're running on the treadmill, your momentum (a vector) is countered by that of the treadmill's reverse motion, so the total momentum of runner + treadmill is indeed zero. Maybe I'm missing a point here -- it's been a while since I took physics. --jpgordon{gab} 21:51, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Also, of course, a treadmill runnner doesn't experience the drag from air-resistance that a road runner would. I don't know if it would make much difference, but it'll have at least a slight effect. -- DrBob 01:58, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• On a treadmill, you have zero momentum from the frame of reference of the ground. However, this isn't actually important outside of air resistance, because you're not directly interacting with the ground anyway. -- Cyrius| 06:12, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Momentum (Momentous?) Science Experiment: Next time you are in a health club and see some big, heavy, muscular guy running on a treadmill, sneak up behind him and pull the treadmill's power plug out of the wall. Compare the results with your hypothesis. Then run away, very quickly; that guy has been training, after all... Garrett Albright 04:39, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Warning: Attempting such activities could be fatal. Wikipedia disclaims all liability for the results of such activities. --Penta 01:46, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Morning glories

How long is the growth cycle of morning glories?

Erowid sez that if the seeds are nicked and soaked, morning glories will flower six weeks after being sowed. --Neschek 18:07, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## stalin

what year did joseph stalin die?

Stalin died on March 5, 1953. See Joseph Stalin for more information. Skyler1534 01:06, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

## Speech problems query moved from Speech communication

i don't know how to say this but i really can't speak straight english,can you help me? I can write what I want to say but when I am talking in front of a person, I can't say the words I am to say. Also, I always have the wrong choice of words everytime I speak.

There are probably a lot of resources that you could draw on. See Toastmasters (I have no involvement with them personally). See if any community colleges in your area have night classes in public speaking. In many cases the focus will be on overcoming the fear of speaking to crowds, which is not your main concern, but some will focus on diction, vocabulary, etc. Sharkford 13:34, 2004 Oct 22 (UTC)
Also, if english is your second language and you are having problems translating it fast enough to talk to someone, there should be plenty of classes that serve a wide range of skill levels for conversational english. If English is your first language, in addition to Sharkfords recommendations, you may want to see a therapist, if you feel that the problem is significantly impacting your life. --Cvaneg 18:18, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## origin of an image...

hi in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CouncilofClermont.jpg appears an image that i dont know its origin. i would like to know where was it scanned from.

thanx

nir evron nir_evron@yahoo.com

It would most likely be best to ask this question directly of the user who uploaded the image. In this case, that user (Adam Bishop) is a respected administrator within the community and I'm sure he would be happy to answer. I have left a message on his talk page requesting him to reply. Skyler1534 15:29, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
I think I got the image itself from http://www.churchofsaginaw.org/churchstory/crusades.htm. It's a pretty common image on the internet; it comes from a painting in a manuscript written about 1490, which is located in the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris. The date and place info about the image, although not the image itself because it wasn't as good a copy, comes from http://www.unf.edu/classes/crusades/, the homepage for a class taught by Paul Halsall, probably the most trustworthy source for crusade info on the Internet. Unfortunately I don't know the name (or the shelf mark) of the manuscript, if you wanted to go to Paris to look it up, but I hope this helps! Adam Bishop 16:58, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Address needed for Dutch Reformed Church

Hi, I am looking specifically for the mailing address for the Dutch Reformed Church in Boskoop, Holland. If anyone can provide this address, please email to rholford@usfamily.net.

Thanks

(Sent an email containing the following)

Here's the information you requested. My source: http://www.boskoop.nl/show?id=360032&textonly=247667 .

Christelijke Gereformeerde Kerk
Nieuwstraat 77
2771 XH Boskoop
Diensten: zondag 9.30 en 17.00 uur (zomertijd om 18.30 uur)
Predikant: ds. C.C. den Hertog
Bellefleur 2, 2771 PG Boskoop
tel. (0172) 213094

--[[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 21:58, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

## What is this? Came from an Old house

Any ideas as to what this is? Help would be apreciated. Thank you --Chauncey 16:02, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Interesting. Where did you find it in the house? Was it attached to anything? Where is the house? How old is it? Were any other similar things recovered near it? Mark Richards 17:22, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm thinking it may have held a lamp on a wall. The pins sticking up and down at the left would have gone into a bracket on the wall, and allowed swinging from side to side; the parallel arms permit height adjustment, with the thumbwheel holding the desired height; and the smooth arm, which remains horizontal at all heights, would slide in and out. The load would have been on the pin sticking up at the right. It might equally well have held a flowerpot but whatever it was, it permitted a heck of a lot of adjustment. Maybe a lamp over a workbench? A non-adjustable example is here. Sharkford 17:37, 2004 Oct 22 (UTC)
I think it's some sort of weighing device (left side attached to a wall). Not sure though. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 21:45, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

## Border Regiment

Moved from Border Regiment:

My father Thomas Judge served in the Border Reg and was in the Chindit campaign.I would be intrested in any info or links to relevant web sites.

Our article is at Chindits. Rmhermen 03:19, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

## Apple 2 Space Shuttle game

OK, I'm not holding out much hope for this one but I figure I'll ask. For YEARS I've been looking for this Apple 2 game which I played as a kid. At this point I simply want confirmation that the game exists, and that my childhood was not a hallucination. The game is a simulation of the Space Shuttle program. It's very in depth, and you spend a bunch of time planning before you even get to the first launch. You have to purchase equipment, hire astronauts, schedule launches, and of course pilot the shuttle in outer space. I remember random details of the game, for example when you're landing you have to control your descent or else the tiles get damaged. When you're in orbit, the game deviates from reality and gives you a "pod" which you fly around in, and you can use it to grasp satellites and debris. You can perform experiments in space in order to earn government funding, and you can also launch commercial satellites.

Unfortunately I don't remember the name of this game. If anyone could tell me the name or where I can obtain a copy, I'd be very grateful. This has been bugging me for a long time now. Rhobite 20:17, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

It appears that there were many Space Shuttle games for the Apple II. I found this listing:
Space Shuttle Commander
APPLE II COMPUTER PROGRAM
game/simulation; Newton's laws of motion; space shuttle

Space Shuttle Mission Facts Data Base
APPLE II COMPUTER PROGRAM
utility; shuttle missions: orbiter, date, pilot, etc

These may be what you are looking for, however:
func(talk) 18:29, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Discussion moved to the pump. func(talk) 05:00, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Flemish Council and Flemish Parliament

When exactly did the Flemish Council or Vlaamse Raad (of Flanders, Belgium) change its name to "Flemish Parliament" or "Vlaams Parlement"? Is the new name "official" (i.e. was it enacted by some sort of legal text?), or is it a self-chosen "nickname"? --Edcolins 17:39, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

The Flemish Council was officially renamed "Vlaams Parlement" on June 13, 1995. Members are called "Vlaams Volksvertegenwoordiger". This history of the Flemish parliament can be found on this site Milestones in the history of the Flemish Parliament (in Dutch), or on this site the Flemish Parliament (in English with an introductory brochure in .pdf) JoJan 14:33, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer. I copied this in the article on the Flemish Parliament. But where would it possible to find the law which officialy enacted this? --Edcolins 20:39, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

## How High Is Yu Shan in Taiwan?

My Webster's Geographical Dictionary gives Yu Shan's height at 13,113 feet (3,997 meters) when the article Jade Mountain says it is 12,962 feet (3,952 meters). Anyone clarify? PedanticallySpeaking 18:53, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Britannica (2002) says 13,113 feet also. Incidentally, they spell it with an umlaut over the u. - John Fader
Although both the Chinese and Japanese wikipedias say 3952m. Maybe one number is a result of a re-survey? - John Fader
• I went through my books and found many disagreeing answers. The following sources had these listed for its height:
1. Columbia Encyclopedia, 1st ed. (1940), "over 14,000 feet" in the article "Niitakayama"
2. Colubmia Encyclopedia, 1st ed. (1940), "about 14,000 feet" in the article "Mount Morrison"
3. Brittanica (1941): 12,939 feet in the atlas
4. Brittanica (1941): 14,720 feet in the article "Formosa" (v. 9, p. 514)
5. Webster's New Int'l Dict., 2d ed. (1957): 13,599 feet
6. New Catholic Encyclopedia: 13,599 feet (v. 13, p. 916)
7. Brittanica (1974): 3997 meters
8. Hammond World Atlas (1989): 3997 meters/13,113 feet
9. Times Atlas, 8th ed. (1990): 3997 meters
10. National Geographic Atlas, 7th ed. (1990): 3997 meters
11. Columbia Encyclopedia, 5th ed. (1993): 3997 meters/13,113 feet
12. Whitaker's Almanac (1996): 13,035 feet

Finally, the official Central Geological Survey of Taiwan's site (here) says 3952 meters, which is what the original article says and the Taiwanese should know. But isn't remarkable the range of these answers, varying by 1,700 feet? PedanticallySpeaking 14:34, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

One thing that might be a factor is that these are all heights above sea level. Given that Taiwan has fallen under the political control of mainland China, Japan, and of its own government, perhaps some of this variation reflects some numbers being with respect to different definitions of sea-level. Unfortunately Wikipedia's sea level article doesn't really compare values for different countries (something that would probably be rather hard, geoids and all. Still, sea level does mention a 20cm difference at Panama - if that's representative then this doesn't really address the significant differences you describe. - John Fader

## Non-democratic countries

Which countries are not democracies? Thanks, Gelu Ignisque.

This is a bit too broad of a question. It would involve the definition of a democracy and a large list of countries that don't fall within the scope of what is typically considered to be democratic. Also, you would have to discount countries that are working toward democracy, transitional (i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan) and those countries that call themselves democracies, but actually are not. I would try looking here if you would like to research this further on your own. The countries are listed in alphabetical order and if you click on each, it has a link to the entry in the CIA World Factbook, which has some detailed information about the system of government. Skyler1534 02:57, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
Bit of a difficult question. I would suggest looking at the Worldwide Press Freedom Index complied by Reporters Without Borders. 04:37, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
This is a very complex question. What does it mean to be a democracy? You'll get some American libertarians who'll argue long and loud that their own country is a "republic, not a democracy" according to their (rather idiosyncratic) definitions of such, despite the fact that by most standards it's a fairly conventional representative democracy. And, by democracy, do you require that there be a number of political parties who alternatively control the government? What restrictions on universal suffrage are acceptable? How free from fraud should be electoral process be? How free does the press have to be? To give some examples, does Singapore count as a democracy? Did South Africa during the apartheid years? What about Mexico, where the PRI wins just about every election? How about Japan, where the LDP wins every election through rural malapportionment and massive pork to that narrow constituency? If I wished to be *really* provocative, you could argue that democracy in the United States isn't in such a healthy state, given the massive influence of financial donors and the chaotic electoral system. Not that I'd necessarily support the argument. --Robert Merkel 06:44, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Technically, the United States is a republic. It would be termed as a democratic republic. In order for it to be a technical democracy, every person would have to have the ability to vote on every issue. Since this is not a very pragmatic solution, we choose a democratic republic, but a republic all the same. Still, this is neither here nor there. I just love to see reasonably intelligent people discuss political matters. ;-) Skyler1534 14:18, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
Note that by this definition, there are no democracies anywhere in the world, and haven't been since... the city-state of Athens? If that (slaves and women couldn't vote). To Gelu, there is a list of countries by system of government which may interest you. Tuf-Kat 14:27, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
As odd as it may sound to some, that is partially a correct view, Tuf-Kat. "Pure Democracy" does not exist in the world (not on a national government level, at least). Just as "Pure Capitalism" and "Pure Communism" do not exist on a large scale. However, democracy does exist on smaller scales, such as Wikipedia and town halls across the world. Just as capitalism exists on smaller scales, such as certain derivatives markets and flea markets. Sorry for going slightly off-topic. Skyler1534 15:01, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
Democracy isn't necessarily direct democracy. "Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them" - from the OED definition of "democracy". ("Republic", on the other hand, is effectively meaningless in this kind of discussion - it just means that the Head of State isn't a monarch.) Proteus (Talk) 22:52, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Proteus, a lot of US conservatives and libertarians have their own definition of "republic" and "democracy", and when they speak of democracy, they refer exclusively to what the rest of us call "direct democracy". They will argue until they are blue in the face that their definition is correct and the rest of us have it wrong, though. It's a little bit like how in the Linux community "hacker" means something different to what the general public has in mind. --Robert Merkel 03:14, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What you are really asking is: "What does the word 'democracy' mean?" You will get as many different answers to this as people you ask. It is a slippery term, ususally highly politically charged. Pick your definition, then make your list! Mark Richards 19:32, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## MIDI logging and MIDI stream

I'm looking for two things for a while, and I'm not finding anything. Maybe someone can help?

1. A program that logs to a MIDI file any MIDI info sent to the sound card.
2. A program that can convert MDS (MIDI Stream) files to MIDI.

I could find some references to a "MDS2MID" thing, but they were in japanese and no translation tool worked :( Kieff | Talk 07:01, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

Kieff, is this for a Windows system? If you're talking about Linux you could probably code something up yourself with not much effort. --Robert Merkel 12:21, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, Windows... If it was Linux, it would be a lot easier, indeed Kieff | Talk 00:46, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
If you could get the program concerned running under WINE, maybe you could capture the data that way... --Robert Merkel 03:27, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Maybe... But not possible right now. And I can't even code anything to do that to me either, so wouldn't help much Kieff | Talk 04:01, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
Here's open source for .MID to .MDS conversion. I don't have time to write the reverse right now, maybe someone else does... mid2strm.c Key45 23:49, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Ise Franks, second wife of Walter Gropius

Is there a question in here somewhere? --Ardonik.talk()* 18:58, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

We have an article on Walter Gropius, but we don't have one on Isa Franks, nor does Gropius's article mention her. func(talk) 19:08, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Critical values for Spearman's rank correlation coefficient (Statistics)

What is the critical value for a two-tailed test with 150 value pairs at 5%, 2.5% and 1% confidence? You may be able to use the values at [2] and extrapolate, but I don't know. --User:r3m0t (can't login, using damn firefox - please reply here) 20:59, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In general, given, Spearman RCC of r and a large sample of size n, find
${\displaystyle t={\frac {\rho }{\sqrt {(1-\rho ^{2})/(n-2)}}}}$
and compare to the appropriate critical t score (n-2 degrees of freedom.) For a sample of 150, these are basically the critical z values: 1.64, 1.96, 2.58

## animals for the disabled

You're probably thinking of assistance animals; that article doesn't exist yet, but try guide dog and assistance dog. Or, better yet, try asking an actual question. --Ardonik.talk()* 00:16, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

## Changing the sound of a Snare Drum

My son is interested in doing a science fair project to determine how the sound of a snare drum is changed. I don't know where to begin. Please help.

signed ganon

I'm not sure how it would work as a science experiment, but I played drums for a while. From my experience, there are three main ways to change the sound: loosen or tighten the head (the part you hit), loosen or tighten the part that causes the snare sound (it is stretched across the bottom, but i can't remember what it is called) or put something inside the drum (I used to use rolled up tissues. The purpose is to muffle the sound in some way.) If all else fails, you can just change the setting on any part of the drum that will move and hit it to see if the sound changes. You'll need a drum key for most of these changes. Anyplace the key will fit, try making it looser or tighter. Best of luck! Skyler1534 02:15, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
The things across the bottom that make the snare sound are called "snares", oddly enough. -- Cyrius| 04:45, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What Skyler said - I used to be a band geek. For the purposes of a science experiment, you would probably be interested in the sound frequencies produced by skins of different tension. Not sure how to convert it to something in a science fair - perhaps he could borrow an oscilloscope to show changes in frequency? --inks 06:38, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The physics of music article discusses normal modes (or harmonics, whatever you wish to call them), but it doesn't get into how this applies to various instruments. A drum (and anything else that is two-dimensional) has much more complicated vibrational modes than a string, but it's still one of the more simple models and any book on acoustics will include diagrams of the normal modes of a flat, circular object.
I imagine it would not be difficult to show that hitting the drum at a node or antinode of an important vibrational mode (or at the nodes of different vibrational modes) will have different effects. (All I have with me at the moment are bell acoustic diagrams, which are not exactly the same, although they are related.) Of course, I am not familiar with snare drums; I don't know what effect the snare has or how audibly "pitched" the sound really is.
The vibrating string article gives formulas relating string tension to the frequency of vibration (see also Pitch (music)). It's a little different for a drum, but basically, increasing the tension will increase the frequency. The aforementioned book on acoustics will probably have a chapter discussing drums. It will certainly discuss the basics of the vibrating string. Depending on how in-depth the project is supposed to be, it may be enough to understand the basic concepts. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 22:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Maps for articles

Many times when I am reading an article it references a geographical area for which I have little understanding of its location (especially ancient civilizations like the Etruscans or Phoenecians). How can we view maps showing where it was located relative to other entities of the time and today? Can these maps be included in the article without worrying about copyright? --Lyle 03:47, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

We can make maps using public domain sources. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps. Gdr 18:48, 2004 Oct 25 (UTC)
Keep in mind, that the larger the area, and the more detail, that you include in a historical map, the greater the chance of making a mistake. The editors of an article may be experts in the subject at hand, but they may not catch mistakes in the historical geography of outlying regions. GUllman 03:10, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Generally, tracing maps, even if they are copyright, can produce a pd version, as long as only geographical information, and not 'artistic' details, are traced. The underlying information in a map cannot be copyrighted. IANAL though, and TINLA. Mark Richards 22:22, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Freedom on Information Act in other countries?

I often put on FOIA requests to the US and find to be, occasionally, a valuable resource. Is there a similar process in other countries, particularly Spain or Russia? That is, could I somehow acquire goverment documents from the Franco or the Stalin era? Thanks... --Tothebarricades.tk 05:11, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There is a Right to Information act in the Indian Constitution, but it is yet to be implemented in practice. See also [3] -- Sundar 05:53, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
See Freedom of Information Act. Gdr 18:39, 2004 Oct 25 (UTC)

## Strait/fjord

Was writing an article on Lim Fjord, and it occurred to me- what exactly is the difference between a strait and a fjord? Is it just that fjords are a more direct product of glaciation? Can some (all) fjords be straits? To what extent are the terms interchangable? [[User:Rhymeless|Rhymeless | (Methyl Remiss)]] 07:07, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

IIRC, a strait is any narrow body of water separating two large land masses (eg the straits of Malacca (sp?)), while a fjord is a deep body of water caused by glacier activity. I suppose you would use the most appropriate name for the task - is it more important that your body of water is defined as "narrow and between two land masses", or that your body of water "is where a glacier once was"? --inks 07:30, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The terms are not interchangeable at all. A strait is a narrow body of water connecting two bodies of water/separating two land masses e.g. the Cook Strait between the two main islands of New Zealand. A fjord is a flooded, heavily glaciated valley, and characteristically is a dead end, e.g. the Sogne Fjord is the longest fjord, at about 120 miles long, but it still comes to an end. Lim Fjord appears to be a misnomer! -- Arwel 10:10, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Wnt and (apo)lipoproteins

I'm trying to find info on the following questions in scientific articles, but the specific info I need is never mentioned in the articles I read. Can anyone recommend some specific articles?

1. What kind of a lipid modification does the wnt protein have and what other proteins share this modification?
2. Are HDL particles loaded on the plasma membrane or in the cell?
3. What is the function of the apolipoproteins (especially Apolipoprotein E)?
4. What proteins are involved in the binding, endocytosis and secretion of HDL, and what diseases are related to deficiencies those proteins?
5. How does lipoprotein transport and recycling work in mammals?

Remember, although answers to these questions are appreciated, articles that may help to answer these questions are welcomed even more. -- [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 07:09, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

Have you tried PubMed or similar databases? --inks 07:14, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have. But they return such a huge amount of articles that I really have no clue what to read first. Tips on which key words to search for are appreciated as well.
Search terms "lipid modification the wnt protein" returned a single article (PMID 15189162), the abstract appears to be relevant to part 1 of your question. Also found this one (PMID 15181251) with "apoE function expression review". I find that a good way to do it is brute force your way through the PubMed results till you find a relevant paper, then go for the articles they reference. --inks 07:25, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. I think I found the first one myself, I'll give the other one a read through. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 07:55, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

For the more general answers on HDL metabolism I would recommend the latest edition of Scriver (Metabolic Basis of Inherited Disease) (2003 I think) which is available in all med school and many hospital libraries, often on the reference shelf. A medical librarian should immediately recognize the request as it is a multivolume "encyclopedic" reference work. This is a good place to start. If I have time later, I'll see what I can find in Medline on wnt. You can refine your search by restricting to "review" articles that mention wnt and lipoprotein. I'll bet that makes it a manageable number. If you are lucky, the text for one or more may be online.Alteripse 15:57, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/Area_of_Interest/Biochemicals/Enzyme_Explorer/Key_Resources/Plasma__Blood_Protein/Apolipoprotein.html

## 180mb Wikipedia Tomeraider Pocket PC file

Hi, I wanted to know where I can download the 180mb Tomeraider File for my Pocket PC. The download worked about 2 weeks ago but I had to unfortunately format my hard drive and thus lost the TR file before I sent it to my SD card. I appreciate any help as the encyclopedia is simply amazing. Thanks and take care. Robert M.

Well, it should be available from here: Wikipedia:TomeRaider database - download instructions, but for some reason the links aren't working. I'd also like to know when this will be back, since I just bought a memory card to try it out. -- DrBob 16:26, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The download links to the tomeraider files are now available again. -- DrBob 02:01, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## bible used by Roman Catholics

Which version of the Bible is most commonly used by Engish speaking Roman Catholics? ike9898 19:23, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops use the New American Bible. So, assuming that American Catholics are the largest English speaking group of Catholics and that they are observant enough to follow biblical recommendations from the clergy, that should be the answer. Of course, I don't know if my assumptions are correct. --Cvaneg 22:40, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
According to Revised Standard Version, the Catholic Bible Association adopted the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition in 1965 and the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition in 1989. I'm not sure how many people actually used the latter, as apparently there were some issues with the "inclusive language", but you can just bet that there are still a lot of people using the former. The New American Bible apparently has only been around since 1970, so I imagine there are still people using whatever came before that.
From experience, the clergy tend to be a bit ahead of the laity with regards to what translation is preferred. I suppose what you really need is someone who has led Bible study groups with Roman Catholics. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:28, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The other major versions are the Jerusalem Bible of 1966; the New Jerusalem Bible of 1985 and the Douay-Rheims Bible of 1752 but in use until quite recently. Rmhermen 01:55, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
The NRSV was the one we used in high school. I don't know what random people would use in their house, though. Adam Bishop 04:09, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Follow-up Question: Do Roman Catholics object to the King James Version? Is the King James Version considered a protestant bible? ike9898 15:20, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

At one time, all translations into vernacular language were treated with a strong disapproval. But, that was a long time ago. AFAIK, there are no special constraints about Bible translations. But, even among Protestants, only a minority place special emphasis on the KJV as their particular translation. Considering the flaws, great age, and difficulty in comprehension that the KJV suffers from, it is unlikely to have many Catholic takers. The KJV is still widely quoted because it sounds "Biblical" with all the "thees" and "thous", but I doubt there is much use of it in Catholic churches beyond quoting certain verses that everyone knows in KJV form. Diderot 15:32, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Douay-Rheims Bible was first translated as a Catholic edition opposed to the Protestant ones, about the same time as the King James version. Both achieved similar long usage and both are still used by "traditionalists" among their respective groups. Generally the important difference between Protestant and Catholic Bible is the "extra books" in the Catholic ones which were included in the original King James translations and you can still get complete versions today. Rmhermen 17:24, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, I believe the King James bible is considered a Protestant bible more or less. Also the above mentioned translation issues leave it not the version of choice for Catholics. Growing up catholic, at least in Michigan, we did not focus very much on the bible at all, especially in comparison to other Christian groups. The Catechism and the epistles and so forth were much more emphasized, just as they are in masses. - Taxman 18:52, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

When someone is executed via a firing squad, will the impact of the bullets causes instant biological death?

You can read our article at firing squad. However, the article doesn't really cover this point, and your question can be interpreted in several ways. As I understand it (and I'm not an expert), if you are shot in the heart several times blood supply to the brain would end pretty much instantaneously, and according to the cardiac arrest article that leads to immediate loss of consciousness, though the death of brain nerve cells would take a couple of minutes after that. Would there be enough time for the executed person to percieve pain? Who knows? Not every body cell would die immediately, some would remain alive for some minutes afterwards.
As to the question of whether the executed person could be legally declared dead immediately after being shot, you might like to read our article on death and the difficulties of determining exactly when a person goes from being considered alive to being dead.
Finally, in practice it is not unknown for firing squads to, for whatever reason, aim imprecisely, and leave their target terminally wounded to die a long, slow, painful death. See this page. --Robert Merkel 06:59, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm given to understand that hydrostatic shock has a lot to do with it. Marsvin 22:29, 2004 Oct 31 (UTC)

## What Is/Are Cholis?

This is the lead to Derek Ellery's review in the October 11, 2004, edition of Variety, of the forthcoming film Bride and Prejudice, directed by Gurinda Chadha: "Austen nuts may rend their frocks, and Bollywood buffs may split their cholis, but there's an immensely likable, almost goofily playful charm to Bride and Prejudice that finally wins the day." What is or are cholis?

A choli is a garment worn by women to cover the chest area or upper part fo the body. See http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=on&q=choli Mintguy (T)

## Temperance Fountain

Moved from Wikipedia:Village Pump (proposals)

I am looking for information about the Temperance Fountain which is located in Washington DC at 7th and Pennsylvania Ave. At the monument I know very little about it but would like to know more. Especially I would like to find some websites that might tell me about this fountain. Some say that there was a Cogswell society in Washington DC for many years and I would like to know more about that too. Any information you could provide me would be very helpful.

Thank you Stephen Hosmer.

Don't know, but there are some in Portland, Oregon, put there to encourage workers to drink water, not beer. Mark Richards 01:41, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Alexander Hamilton

Moved from Wikipedia:Village Pump (proposals)

I am trying to find out more information about Alexander Hamilton Statue which stands on the West side of the Dept of Treasury building. I kind of would like to know whatever is available. I would especailly like to know about a couple of website which would tell me about the statue. Any information you could provide me would be helpful and much apprecaited.

Thank you Stephen Hosmer.

[4] Rmhermen 01:05, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

Society still meets, locations to be announced. Still very secretive. will be aware of more details next month.

## Kelley's Key

I've just heard the following line in a short story: "He was decoding a Horace ode with the help of a Kelley's Key." (not sure whether Kelley is spelled with two e's). Does anyone know what that is? Mjklin 04:01, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

If he was decoding, I'd expect Kelley's Key to be a cypher of some sort. I suggest you read our article on cryptography and see if any of the links help you out. You could also try contacting User:Matt Crypto, our resident cryptography specialist. If it's a cypher, he'll probably know about it. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 08:04, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
I just thought I'd add a note that, if Matt doesn't know, he'll know of others who may. While I agree with Mgm that Matt is brilliant in this field, I think it's worth noting that he is far from alone -- we have a collection of editors who edit on codes and codebreaking, and I've found that they each have a remarkable amount of knowledge at their disposal. If Matt can't help you, Mjklin, make sure he points you to other people's talk pages. Good luck! Jwrosenzweig 20:53, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm afraid I've never come across mention of a "Kelley's Key" in a crypto context, sorry! I'd probably favour the "translation" interpretation myself, but if you want to quiz others about whether it might be a cipher, you could drop a note here at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cryptography, or even hazard a query at the sci.crypt newsgroup. — Matt 16:39, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Um, I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about "decoding" actually, but rather translation (since Horace wrote in Latin). I'm just wondering whether a "key" in this case is just a dictionary or something more interesting. Mjklin 21:11, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

Possibly it is a reference to a book? The only Google reference I can find is this one:

Kelly's Key To Horace, Odes, Epodes, and Carmen Seculare, published by W. & G. Foyle Ltd, 119-125 Charing Cross Road, London WC2, no date given

And yes, it must be referring to translation, rather than encryption. Horace was a prolific poet in Latin, so I suspect the question of how to translate his work is centuries-old. -- Wapcaplet 22:36, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## disability which causes typing transposition of letters need help or workaround suggestions

A question I have is whether there is any type of spell checker available when we are writing. I have a minor (?) mental disability which results in transposing letters when I type. This was diagnosed by medical experts as a coordination problem. I also have auditory processing deficit (basically a delay in interpreting what we hear) and hyper focus, which can be a good thing, as you can get intensely into whatever you are paying attention to. These are all manifestations of adult add, which was diagnosed when I was 42.

To explain briefly, I had career in bus transportation, so I know how to spell "fleet". (duh?). When I type, I can mentally envision F-L-E-E-T, but it will come out as FLETE or something like that. This occurs every thrid to fuifth word on average, like this sentanec e I am typing right now, whcih i will refrain from cleaning up (sorry).

When I manually print, the problem doesn't happen, and for years, at work I had help to do my typing (in the days before computers). I actually spell pretty well, but have to go back over every single word I ever type, even e-mail. Spell checkers on a computer were a godsend for me, and help enormously, although they don't catch it when I make another word by accident or when what I come out with is beyond the suggestions.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I have tried working off-line in my word processor, but I am trained and used to an outdated one (Lotus Wordpro a.k.a. AmiPro) and it doesn't work very well with wiki formatting. I someday will need to earn MS word like the rest of the world, and have been doing that some. Copying previous work and editing it also is a workaround for me. I tried voice recognition stuff 8-10 years ago before I retired, but the results were poor. Expensive software or equipment is out of the question these days, as I am one of those seniors on a very fixed income.

For my Wikipedia contributions, I am mostly focused on history and people, places and railroads. I have been working on Virginian Railway and several related others items. I also have founded and moderate Yahoo groups, 3 rail and 1 for bus enthusiasts. 2 of my rail groups are very active, and info I have used on wiki has come from many others with hands-on historical backgrounds. Some of our work is used in the Virginia Standards of Learning online stuff for public school here! Here are is the url for the most active group for anyone who may be interested in what we are doing.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts/

I would like to spend more time on composing content and less on cleaning up my bad typing which results. I would appreciate some suggestions, as I am enjoying contributing to Wikipedia!

My email is vgn700{ a t }aol.com if anyone wants to write me offline.

Yours in Richmond, VA Mark Fisher, aka vaoverland

Mark i have exactly the same problem though possible not as severe, although as well as transposing letters I also miss them out alltogether or sometimes I'll add a letter from the next word liket his. I don't have any anwsers. I haven't found any mechanical methods to solve this problem. generally , for wikipedia pages, i just do the best i can and let the many wonderful people who loike to clean up articles catch any I miss. Theresa Knott (Not the skater) 12:20, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

May be we should be developing a specialised word processor for people with such difficulties, one that suggests alternative spellings, even if you've typed a valid word. As for Wikipedia, it is a big self-organising community with people of diverse interests, capabilities and focus areas, so don't worry. -- Sundar 12:36, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

I recently downloaded the Ultra Hal Reader from http://www.zabaware.com . The program can read a bunch of selected text, which makes it easier to catch spelling mistakes. It might clash with the auditory processing deficit, but at least, you can catch transpositions with it. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 18:20, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

I've been working with it for a long time, and I will continue to do so. I am not upset about it, just know that it wastes time. If the hal reader turns text into sound, it rpobably wouldn't help me much, because I can almost always spot the errors quickly. With my particualr ADD and aspects, I am much more visual than auditory. the frustration is seeing it in your mind the way you want to type it, and then seeing the word come out in the wrong order. I'll keep an eye on this thread, and let 'yall know whenever I find was to improve or workaround. Thanks, Mark

Hi Mark. You asked me this on my talk page, but we may as well stick the discussion together.
There's a pretty good web-based spellchecker, though it seems to work almost too well, considering that, in testing it, I misspelled 'the' as 'teh' and it didn't mark it as wrong; turns out that 'TEH' can be an acronym for a few things.
If you're using Internet Explorer, there's an apparently gratis extension you can download called ieSpell. I haven't tried it and recommend Firefox. :-)
Some other spellcheckers exist, but they tend to cost money. Here's a Google search for 'spell checker', which simply gets more results than 'spellchecker'.
By the way, if you do try a different word processor (and there's no reason to if you're happy with your current one), please give OpenOffice.org a try. Word is needlessly (for you, not MS) expensive.
And of course remember that if you misspell things, only morons will whine about it and do nothing. We can always correct your typos, but we cannot equal your knowledge of the subjects that interest you. Keep up the good work. Chris Roy 19:45, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am testing iespell Vaoverland 01:26, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC) TEST: (before)This occurs every thrid to fuifth word on average, like this sentanec e I am typing right now, whcih i will refrain from cleaning up (sorry).

(after) This occurs every third to fifth word on average, like this sentence e I am typing right now, which i will refrain from cleaning up (sorry).

SUMMARY: It looks like it will be a big help for me. Thanks Vaoverland 01:31, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

## Termination procedures and time limits for Section 8 housing

Well, I'm not sure what the exact question is here, and of course IANAL, but in general, terminating a tenancy will depend very much on the state, county, and municipal laws where your rental unit is located. Your best bet would be to contact your local apartment/rental association or a lawyer who specializes in rental law. The amount of money spent on such services will vastly outweigh potential losses of rent as a result of an incorrectly executed eviction, or losses due to litigation regarding unintentional non-compliance with local rent laws. For what it's worth, though, IIRC Section 8 only deals with partial payment of rent from the government, aside from that it is like a standard tenancy --Cvaneg 17:56, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I would suggest going here: [5] It is the section of the Housing and Urban Development website that deals with Housing Choice (or Section 8) Voucher programs. Skyler1534 00:26, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

## Schubert article

I would like to know who wrote the article on Franz Schubert.

A.G. Perry

These people --Tagishsimon
On the other hand, if you would like to know for the purposes of citing the article, then you should instead look at Citing Wikipedia --Cvaneg 18:05, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Invention date and usage of fMRI

I am researching brain injury diagnosis and can't find out the date of fMRI invention or date of initial usage, as a diagnostic tool, in Texas,United States. Do you have any such information? I found out that EMI Laboratories had one at Hillcrest Medical Center in Waco,Texas in 1979. ---anon.

fMRI using oxyhemoglobin to measure brain oxygen uptake wasn't developed until 1990. Slightly earlier using gadolinium but not as far back as 1979, I don't think. Rmhermen 20:08, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

## Employment statistics for the late 90s

Between 1995 & 2000 the millenium scare created a lot of high paying jobs that went away in 2000. Are there any statistics on this subject?

There are loads of statistics, but it requires a lot of reading. There are no simple tables and such. I'm an academic economist, so I am used to the reports. The statistics it sounds like you are looking for would be published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. They release the Unemployment Situation on the first working Friday of every month. You can find the archived versions of the reports going back to 1994 here: [6] For background information (such as why these things occurred in certain regions), you can also read the Beige Book reports published by the Federal Open Market Committee. The information is divided into the twelve regions covered by the twelve Federal Reserve Banks. Archives releases of the Beige Book reports can be found at the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis' website Skyler1534 00:48, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
An anecdotal comment: you may find that much of the y2k prep work was done not by creating new jobs, but by deferring other projects. Programmers and sysadmins who would otherwise have been deploying new apps spent '98 and '99 reworking old ones. Likewise, many new hires in those years who went straight into y2k work would have been reassigned to catchup work in '00, not let go. At any rate, there was a huge I.T. labour buildup in the U.S. throughout the late '90s owing to the phenomenon generally called the dot-com boom, which ended in a bust in early '02. It might be hard to discern y2k hiring effects against that background. Sharkford 14:39, 2004 Nov 1 (UTC)

## interpreter

hi i am fluent in English and Bulgarian,I would like to help by translating articles in and from Bulgarian; could somebody let me know @ kalina_pp80{ a t }hotmail.com? thank you kalina

Hi, I'd say just do it. Anyone can help, join up, and edit articles. You may notice there is a Bulgarian Wikipedia at http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/ So start in, have fun and translate articles back and forth. Just make sure to spend some time getting familiar with the resources and conventions. It will help you contribute more. - Taxman 15:36, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
For translations from Bulgarian, see Wikipedia:Translation into English. It's a good project, and I'm sure there are articles in the Bulgarian Wikipedia that would help expand our coverage here! Jwrosenzweig 19:25, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Also, please create yourself an account and sign up at Wikipedia:Translators available. We don't have any Bulgarian translators on the list, so you would be very welcome.
We'd love to have English translations of any good articles in the Bulgarian Wikipedia (especially articles containing local knowledge on Bulgaria). I believe the Bulgarian Wikipedia is still in a pretty "fledgling" state, so you should be careful to look for possible copyright violations in its content; many of the smaller Wikipedias have a lot of problems with these.
There is undoubtedly an almost boundless need for translation of English-language articles to Bulgarian. I would particularly urge you to take a look at Wikipedia:Featured articles, which should link to some of the best English-language articles. I'm sure that translations of some of these would be helpful to any of the smaller Wikipedias. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:36, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

## Do electric blankets really cause house fires?

I like to use an electric blanket in the winter, and I convinced it save me money on my heating bill. But I always have people warning me that these blankets can start fires. In fact, one friend who told me seemed to know what he was talking about - his company did repair work on houses that had been damaged by fires, floods, ect. BUT... It seems to me that if there really were that many fires caused by these blankets, some goverment agency (the Consumer Products Safety Commision?) would step in. Is this an urban lengend? (I've heard the same about Glade Plug-ins) ike9898 14:03, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Look for the UL label, or the CE logo where appropriate. In principle, these products are tested so that ordinary use shouldn't cause an unexpected risk of injury or property damage.
It does happen. [7], [8], [9], [10], [11] But, when the blanket isn't faulty due to poor manufacture, the insulation is intact, and the blanket isn't worn out, it is not supposed to be possible for it to cause house fires. An electric blanket is a device which draws electrical current with the intent to produce heat in a space where the heat is not quickly radiated away. There are inherent risks that don't go away under those conditions. I doubt any class of government regulation short of banning them could make them totally safe, and I imagine that the certification labs and the risk of lawsuits usually acts in lieu of comprehensive regulation. But, such processes are corruptible. Manufacturing standards vary and users are not always careful - especially the elderly users who are the most likely to need them.
Diderot 14:19, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Tourism article Author?

hello, I would like to quote off the tourism article on the website (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism) and need to know the author. is it possible you have it in your records. Many thanks Alistair Minty

Well you can find the list of contributors here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Tourism&action=history, but you are more likely looking for How to cite wikipedia - Taxman 15:39, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
Would it be worth putting a citing wikipedia link next to 'about wikipedia' and 'disclaimers'? Intrigue 16:50, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yes, we should consider something like that. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 17:58, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, Wikipedia will be an increasingly cited source as time goes on, especially if wikipedia articles are well researched and cited themselves. Is this developer issue now, and where would we take this to get wider approval for the idea? - Taxman 19:35, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#"Citing Wikipedia" link, or Citation Box, on every page for an interesting discussion of this. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:40, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

## Free font or software to draw syntax trees

For both Wikipedia and personnal purposes, I would love to be able to draw nice syntax trees using a free software or font. Does anyone know if such a thing exists, for MS-Windows, in a stable and functionnal state? --[[User:Valmi|Valmi ]] 22:52, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• It looks like aiSee is free for non-commercial usage. -- Wapcaplet 23:19, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Question transferred from Eikonal equation in Gemotrical optics

I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE EIKONAL EQUATION AND SOLUTION OF THE EIKONAL EQUATION. lITERATURE SAYS THAT IT HAS BEEN USED IN GEOMETRICAL OPTICS TO COMPUTE THE TRAVEL TIME OF WAVE IN THE MEDIUM WHICH HAVE DIFFERENT REFERCTIVE INDEX

And I quote: "Please avoid using all capital letters; not only do they make a question harder to read, but they are often interpreted as impolite or shouting."

I don't think we have any artickle on the eikonal equation. Only gradient index optics about variable refractive index. Charles Matthews 16:39, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Citing

How do you cite Wikipedia? How do you find out the author of the articles?

See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. →Raul654 16:58, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
Generally, you do not cite individual authors (since each article may have many), but if you wish, you can click the "history" link that is at the top of most pages using the default style. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 16:59, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
On a side note, we get asked this a lot. I can't imagine how many users there are who don't get as far as this page and give up hopes of citation. Should we think about a more prominent way of linking to the citation page? If we believe we're a usable encyclopedia (and I do) that students might quote, I think it's worth discussing how best to do that. Although this particular page might not be the right place....I don't know about that. I fear a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Citing Wikipedia wouldn't attract much interest. Jwrosenzweig 19:08, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Look at the citing question 3 questions above this one. It's already being discussed. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 19:49, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

## what does the number lock do

If the number lock is turned on, the keys of the numeric keypad will give you numerals instead of behaving as up and down arrows, etc. On my laptop, this is particularly useful, since it makes it much easier to get at special characters and such. See IBM PC keyboard and Num lock. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:57, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If you're on a desktop Mac, NumLock does nothing; it's just there on the "Clear" key for compatibility (with non-Mac OSs like Windows (in emulation) or Linux/Unix, I suppose). Garrett Albright 06:36, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Finding the author?

I cant find the author of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagism how can I find the author(s)?

Here, although I think you'll find the answer more surprising than useful. If you're interested in citing Wikipedia, please see Citing Wikipedia --Neschek 22:05, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This question is asked so often that I wonder if people know the meaning of the word 'cite' or 'citation'. Maybe we should change the title of the article to something more obvious, such as, Wikipedia:Who is the author of a Wikipedia article?, or How to use Wikipedia articles for your research paper. GUllman 03:42, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
You can track the answer to this down by typing FAQ in the search box, which has a link to Wikipedia:FAQ -> Wikipedia:Readers' FAQ and that has a link to Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. OK, it's a hell of a journey, but it's logical... I think. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)]] 10:20, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

## Latin phrase

I have been sent this message by a lost loved one. It is almost certainly from Dante. Can someone tell me what this phrase means, where it's from and what follows it in it's original source? This is extremely important to me, thank you.

" Neque porro est qui dolorem ipsum quiadolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit... "

my email is (deleted, see history)

• It means "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain...". Here's our writeup on what it's best known for: Lorem ipsum --jpgordon{gab} 02:10, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

## Vitamin B-12

I do not know if this will accomplish what I want. I am trying to find a simple Email contact to ask a question. I can find all kinds of data about deficiences in vitamin b-12, but I cannot find out what is undesirable about having too much in the system. A doctor removed my wifes consumption of a multiple vitamin because she had too much b-12 in her system. What could be the possible consequences of having too much? --anon

That's odd. The Institute of Medicine states that "no adverse effects have been associated with excess vitamin B12 intake from food and supplements in healthy individuals." Your doctor must be privy to some very exclusive information... As for finding an email contact, we generally don't encourage people to request email replies here, as it benefits all for answers to these questions to be public... but you didn't leave an email address anyway. Garrett Albright 04:45, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Although B12 isn't believed to be harmful in itself, there are several reasons your doctor may wish her to stop taking it. Chiefly its a diagnostic tool - elevated serum B12 can be indicative of several conditions (including obesity, ulcers, diseases of the liver and kidney, diabetes, and certain metabolic imbalances). So if he's tested her blood and found elevated B12 it's quite reasonable that he ask her to stop taking a B12 supplement so he can be sure that it's the cause of the elevated B12, not one of those conditions. - John Fader

## is this web site copying the information on Wikipedia illegally?

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/idiom

Unfortunetly, according to the GFDL license, no. See on the bottom:
Makes me sad, though Kieff | Talk 09:48, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
You mean "no," not illegally. The information on Wikipedia is free for folks to completely leech like this, so long as they attribute Wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. Garrett Albright 20:57, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Erm, actually, the site must credit the copyright holder, NOT Wikipedia. Citing Wikipedia is possibly one way to credit the copyright holder since the contribution log is preserved. Tricky 07:03, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I meant no. I thought it said LEGALLY. Ugh, sorry. It's fixed now. Kieff | Talk 21:20, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)

## How much of a journey from Paris to Versailles in 1693?

For an article about an Englishman, John Vanbrugh, who stayed in Paris in 1693, it would be great if somebody could suggest how much of a journey it would have been for him to go see Versailles. Could it have been a day trip? (How far is it?) Would there have been a stage coach (diligence)? Would the public be allowed close enough to get a good impression of the exterior? Probably hard questions to answer exactly, but any good guesses or estimates would also be much appreciated.--Bishonen 15:40, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, didn't the citizens march to Versailles in 1792 as a mob? I think it's less than 10 miles. Alteripse 17:08, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

1789, actually -- and it was mostly women. --jpgordon{gab} 19:27, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In 1693? Dunno. But I can show you how to make the journey now. Go to mappy.com and enter "Paris" and "Versailles" under Itinerary. It is apparently 21.4 km from the centre of modern Paris to the centre of modern Versailles, taking an average of 29 minutes in a typical car. Chameleon 17:28, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Oh, cool, thank you both very much. If the mob could do it on foot, I guess a healthy young man would have made it an easy day trip, either on horseback or by diligence. Vanbrugh was to invent English baroque later, that's why I wondered if he could have seen Versailles. In 1693 he wasn't a sightseeing Grand Tour kid, but a political prisoner who'd just been let out of the Bastille and allowed to move freely in Paris only, but if Versailles is that close, I don't think it would have been a problem. He wasn't especially supposed to have tendencies to assassinate royals. Thanks.--Bishonen 18:27, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Easy enough to get to on horse back and a popular day out for Parisians today. It might be on the edge of Paris now, but I would have thought Versailles would have been seen as a very separate village in 1693. Surely it would have meant leaving the city boundaries. -- Solipsist 08:01, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In an SR-71 he could have done it in 20 seconds. You have to write that in the article. -- FirstPrinciples 06:16, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)