Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals pages, or – for assistance – at the help desk, rather than here, if at all appropriate. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.
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Wikipedia and game theory[edit]

How can the game theory be applied to model wikiedits to articles and wikidialogues in talk pages?-- (talk) 11:03, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Not so easily: it's probably impossible to define utility functions for the English Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation, and individual editors. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:56, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Not an expert - but just pondering, it seems to me 'its complicated' and you would get some partial insights and some aspects fit but not have a complete capture or simple model. For example, the terminology of game theory might be applied to say it's a cooperative game with transparency and history and sequential moves. Or might consider that some articles fit to the Philosophy use in being development of a shard knowledge, while more controversial ones look to be a Prisoners dilemma with 3 rounds known in advance. Not sure where you're wanting to go with it all anyway. Markbassett (talk) 04:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Partial insights are fine and welcomed. An interesting situation to model re cooperativity or its opposite is to estimate probabilistically the time needed by a main user assisted by another to remove a misquotation of a source which is kept in an article by 3-5 other non-cooperative editors who oppose to the elimination of the misquotation by various spurious reasons.-- (talk) 11:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
The biggest application is first mover advantage and second mover advantage. This plays out in WP:3RR, and WP:Wheel war among other things, even though we all know about it and explicitly allow WP:GAMEing to be considered on its merits. All the best: Rich Farmbrough17:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC).


Note that Luigi Arienti has died acording to italian wikipedia. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:42, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi IP. This note should go on Talk:Luigi Arienti. However the Italian Wikipedia article has no sources that verify his death. --NeilN talk to me 14:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikilinks going to wrong targets for years[edit]

I just found out that the article American craft had credited a book written by Michael Monroe as a source. Now the link Michael Monroe goes to a Finnish rock/punk musician, real name Matti Fagerholm, who is best known by his artist name Michael Monroe. I very seriously doubt he would ever have written a book about American craft, that must have been some American writer whose real name is Michael Monroe.

The thing is, the article American craft had been this way ever since it was created, for almost nine years. Right at the beginning, or any time since, its original author could have actually clicked the wikilink and seen that he/she had the wrong Michael Monroe. But no, he/she did not, and neither did anyone else.

I finally removed the wikilink from the author's name. I would have done it sooner, but I didn't know the article American craft existed. I only found it by using the "What links here" tool for Michael Monroe.

I myself often click on every not completely obvious blue wikilink in articles I have created, or that appear in edits I have made, just to be sure I have got the right targets. Not immediately, but usually within weeks or months. I don't just leave them entirely unchecked for almost a decade.

Why can't people be more accurate in checking their wikilinks? JIP | Talk 20:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

We see this issue time and time again with disambiguation links. People seem to make links without thinking about the possibility that there could be anyone else in the world with a fairly common combination of first name and last name. There also seems to be a sense that if a human name is linked in an article, it must be linked - even if the article is on a small high school and the name is that of the gym teacher. Perhaps this craft writer is notable, and should have an article, in which case we might disambiguate "Michael Monroe", and at least it will be easier to tell that there are bad links going to the page. I do think that it would be great if we had some kind of helpful hints coming from the system itself that would let an editor know that a link was fishy before they saved the edit. bd2412 T 22:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@JIP: My guess is that the user in question was an unpaid (and probably untrained) volunteer just starting to understand how Wikipedia works. Everyone makes mistakes. Unfortunately, the user doesn't seem to be active anymore for you to ask. Thank you for fixing the article.
I like to go hunting for incorrect links, such as Prince, Cream, and Pink when the user meant Prince (musician), Cream (band) and Pink (singer). Maybe this would be an area where you could contribute too. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 22:22, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

how to add geocoordinate data[edit]


I can't figure out how to add geocoordinate data. I have lat=45.8104911, long=13.4287543, but when I try to fill in a template copied from another article I get error messages. Thanks, EChastain (talk) 21:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

@EChastain: The method for adding coordinates varies, mainly according to whether or not an infobox is used on the article, and what kind of infobox it is. So, which article do you wish these coordinates adding to? --Redrose64 (talk) 21:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@Redrose64: to Torre (river), thanks, EChastain (talk) 21:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
That article uses {{Infobox River}}, and the documentation for that shows that two pairs of coordinates may be used: if your coordinates are those of the river's origin (which may be a source or confluence), use |origin_lat_d=45.8105 |origin_long_d=13.4287 but if they are the river's mouth (which again may be a confluence), use |mouth_lat_d=45.8105 |mouth_long_d=13.4287 --Redrose64 (talk) 22:00, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@EChastain: I forgot to mention: don't use as many as seven places of decimals, that works out to about one centimetre - I'd use four places (ten metres), see WP:OPCOORD. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
I have replied at Wikipedia:Help desk#how to add geocoordinate data. Please only post a question in one place. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks so much. That's exactly what I wanted to know. EChastain (talk) 22:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Can anyone get this to work?[edit]

The workaround described here with getting un watermarked images from a certain site [ex. [1] ]. I can't seem to get this to work there something I'm doing wrong, or have browser updates since then made it impossible to do? Connormah (talk) 08:24, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

New talk page watcher template created[edit]

Most editors who participate on user talk pages have seen (talk page stalker) used to preface comments. Based on concerns listed at Template talk:Talk page stalker I've created a new Template:Talk page watcher which produces (talk page watcher). Please comment if you wish. --NeilN talk to me 15:46, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Africa: last hours to vote[edit]


The c:Commons:Wiki Loves Africa photographic contest is reaching its end and the jury has decided the first three winners: c:Wiki Loves Africa 2014/Winners

We wish to add a fourth prize that will be voted by the community. A selection of 20 images (the best of the selection by jury, from n°4 till n°23) is proposed here : c:Wiki Loves Africa 2014/Community Prize Selection. Please cast your vote ! (only one vote per person please) Anthere (talk)

Vote for Wikipedia in the DoGooder Awards[edit]

I received the following e-mail (lightly redacted):

We run the DoGooder Awards, which honor the best nonprofit videos each year. We do this with YouTube and something called the Nonprofit Technology Network, which is basically an association of nonprofit technologists. The purpose of the awards is to educate the broader public about important work that the nonprofit community does, and to showcase videos which will inspire other causes to invest to tell their own stories.
Wikimedia did a video about 2014 accomplishments on Wikipedia that's a finalist in the awards. The video has the hashtag, #Edit2014
A judging panel chooses the finalists among hundreds of entries. The winner among the 4 finalists are chosen by public voting. Voting opened this week.
My question to you... Is there a good way to let the Wikipedia community know about this? I don't know what level of interest there would be, but I think the video honors the people working on the platform and given the reach of Wikipedia, it would be really nice to see it get broader reach.
I know that Wikimedia has put something on their social channels, but it seemed not really to reach folks. The video has 19 votes right now.
Here's the link:

Get to voting! —Justin (koavf)TCM 20:40, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

@Koavf: Have you considered Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions? GoingBatty (talk) 03:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
@GoingBatty: Definitely and I recommended that to the person who originally sent me the e-mail but Signpost won't be published in time for the vote. —Justin (koavf)TCM 04:15, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • It just published. Like, just. If you'd mentioned this to the editor in chief, it could have been inserted. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

A young and old person kissing[edit]

This is a rush request for a kind editor to take a staged photo to help save Wikipedia a ton of resources.

It would put an end to two months, approaching 20k words, and many hours of observer reads, over a disputed lead image at Age disparity in sexual relationships. (It is gone now, but in the last stable version, so will return. It is a picture of a marriage -- not ideal.)

Image needed: Ideal would be a man and woman, very obvious age difference, waist up, (fake) kissing, clothes on of course, holding hands (they show age well) visible at shoulder level, so the focus of the image would be heads and hands.

Please, anyone with a camera and willing, appropriate people in the room, take the photo and upload it here.

Many thanks,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Only on Wikipedia is the opportunity presented to be the face of age disparity in sexual relationships. Chillum 03:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Well, how about Cranach: [2] (FYI all I did was put "young and old in art" in google images just now - less than two seconds) Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Cranach is a good start. commons:Category:The unlikely couples by Lucas Cranach (I) --Atlasowa (talk) 19:00, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Forget what i wrote. Talk:Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships#Possible_illustration etc. OMG. --Atlasowa (talk) 19:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The Core Contest[edit]

is being run again in March - see Wikipedia:The Core Contest for details. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Adding diacritical marks[edit]

What is going on with all the changes being made in articles (and their titles) by adding accents and tildes to proper names? Wikipedia guidelines are pretty clear on this. See Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#Modified_letters. It is very annoying to me as a copy editor to see these mistakes in spelling: I am always impelled to dive in and correct them, and that is just a waste of time. In some instances I have had to ask an administrator for help in renaming (moving) an entire page to one with the correct spelling. I hope the people reading this can find a solution to this (apparent) wave of name changes. Thank you. GeorgeLouis (talk) 18:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

@GeorgeLouis: You don't give examples, but judging by your contribs, in which I find this thread and this edit, your most recent concern is with Richard Alarcón. This was moved to its current title in June 2006, and hasn't moved since. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:57, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Moriscos not of Arab descent, but Iberian instead?[edit]

I have made an RfC [3] at the talk page [4] of the Morisco article.

Should the last paragraph in the "Expulsion" section of the article state as accomplished fact that Moriscos were mostly not descendants of Arab settlers, but overwhelmingly the descendants of native Iberians who converted to Islam?

A couple of editors insist that this statement be left as it is: "Contrary to popular belief, the Moriscos were for the most part not descendants of Arab settlers, but instead were overwhelmingly the descendants of Muladis, native Iberians who converted to Islam under Muslim rule, and were as ethnically Iberian as the Christians who expelled them." The only supporting source given is a documentary on the British Channel 4. They allow qualifying information to be appended, but revert any attempt to rephrase the declarative statement so that it doesn't represent this as an objective fact, as the article's history will show. Carlstak (talk) 05:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)