Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Thanks not working[edit]

Hi, Not sure if it's just me but my thanks doesn't seem to be working?
I go to thank someone (it then says thanked as it should) but then when I thank someone else on the same page it doesn't do anything and then when I reload the page the edit I thanked no longer says "thanked" (I just have the option to rethank basically),
Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 00:15, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Davey, see if the thanks you tried to send are in your log. I don't know why it doesn't seem to work twice for you on the same page, but I do know that "thanked" reverting to "thank" when you come back to a page is an annoying issue that has irritated me for a while, but I've just kind of put up with it. If you want me to check if I get the same issue, reply to this, and I'll see if I can thank you for both edits from the page history. -- Begoon 01:13, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
I thanked Davey2010 for his edit here, and it now says I thank Begoon. I'm going to file a bug MusikAnimal talk 01:25, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
The system tells me you thanked me twice, MA, according to my "notices"... -- Begoon 01:28, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Yep, I tried a second time and it thanked you for your other edit. It's thanking whatever the most recent non-thanked revision is. I created a bug at phab:T187757 MusikAnimal talk 01:30, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Well, just to maybe add to the confusion, I thanked you both, from the page history, and each time I got the expected message, and "thank" said "thanked" for both edits on the page history after the second one. My log has 2 entries, one for MA, one for Davey... -- Begoon 01:35, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Maybe you thanked before intermediate edits were made? Because that would mean Davey and I's edits are the most recent ones that aren't yours, if that makes sense. Either that or it is magically working for you but not others. @Begoon and Davey2010: What browser/OS/skin are you using? MusikAnimal talk 01:39, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Vector, FF 58.0.2, Win 7. And yes, you could be right, looking at the times of the edits/thanks they could well have been the last 2 edits that weren't mine (Nagual edited in the same minute, I don't have seconds to compare.) -- Begoon 01:47, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Hi Begoon, I've never had an issue before but got your thanks (thanks! :) ),
MusikAnimal - My thank log now shows as
"01:01, 20 February 2018 Davey2010 (talk | contribs) thanked My name is not dave (talk | contribs)
00:59, 20 February 2018 Davey2010 (talk | contribs) thanked Tacyarg (talk | contribs)
00:10, 20 February 2018 Davey2010 (talk | contribs) thanked Casliber (talk | contribs)
00:09, 20 February 2018 Davey2010 (talk | contribs) thanked Dodger67 (talk | contribs)
00:09, 20 February 2018 Davey2010 (talk | contribs) thanked Callanecc (talk | contribs)"
All of which I've never thanked (I tried thanking Ritchie333, SoWhy and Lourdes on Lourdes's RFA),
I'm currently using Vector skin, Chrome, OS is Windows 7, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 01:51, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
I get the same error and added an example with screenshots to phab:T187757. This is serious. I suggest we hide thanks links until it's fixed. We can do it by placing the below in MediaWiki:Common.css. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:11, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
.mw-thanks-thank-link {display: none;}
@PrimeHunter: I was about to suggest the same. I'm going to up the task to Unbreak Now, but there's a chance it won't get fixed until tomorrow. So yeah, let's hide it. I don't think we can hide it on mobile too, can we? MusikAnimal talk 02:22, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
I don't know a way we can hide it in mobile but I suspect the vast majority of thanks are from desktop. Pages with thanks links are harder to find in mobile and most editors are in desktop. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:31, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
I agree. I've gone ahead and hidden it with Special:Diff/826612112 MusikAnimal talk 02:32, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Similarly for mobile. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:20, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Despite MusikAnimal's edit of 02:30 today, thanks are still happening. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Redrose64, those edits are done through mobile. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Even those thanks that were made after TheDJ amended MediaWiki:Minerva.css at 11:20? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:19, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
@Redrose64: yeah, but we still have caching, the mobile apps, maybe a userscript and anything else that uses the api (possibly including troll bots). :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:29, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Judging by the patch, I'm guessing the mobile version is unaffected. We might as well leave it hidden until the ticket is resolved, though. Thanks for figuring that out. Now I know where the mobile CSS is :) Which go figure is the SkinName.css MusikAnimal talk 16:31, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

"thanked" link reverting to "thank"[edit]

I've put this in a subsection so as not to pollute the discussion of the above serious error, but I'd still be interested in an eventual answer to this, which was touched on above. While the thanks "links" on this page history for the thanks I just made today, above, still show as an unlinked "thanked" no matter how many times I refresh or purge, if I revisit the page histories for the thanks I sent yesterday the link has reverted to a blue-linked "thank", with the opportunity to do it again. Is this how it's supposed to work (ie the links revert after a period of time)? -- Begoon 02:27, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

I think you probably had the same issue. When you thank in the interface, it looks like it goes through, but if you refresh, it ends up having thanked the most recent revision. The ones you did today were probably the most recent revisions, hence why they worked. MusikAnimal talk 02:36, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
No, I think it's separate. The edits which have reverted to "thank" are correctly shown as thanked in the log. Also, at least one of them was definitely the last revision when I thanked it (and still is, as I type). Also, also, this has done this, like this, for some time (weeks, maybe months), I've just never asked or "complained" till Davey mentioned something similar. -- Begoon 02:41, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
For as long as I can remember, any time I would log out and log back in, it would reset any edits I had thanked and allow me to thank them again. They remained in the log properly. Home Lander (talk) 02:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, actually I do recall seeing that as well -- where the Thanks did go through but still reverted back to a Thanks link. For me it would revert back after a few days, not immediately, if I remember correctly. Anyway I agree this is probably an unrelated issue. I don't see a bug for it in Phabricator, so let's revisit it after the above bug is fixed.

Unrelated, I love that Nihlus just Thanked me for removing Thanks =p MusikAnimal talk 02:51, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

I was testing out the Mobile to see if there were any issues. :P Nihlus 02:52, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I'm guessing this issue arose today; all my thanks in the log from yesterday and earlier appear to be correct. Guess I'm glad I didn't try to thank anyone today. Home Lander (talk) 02:59, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

@MusikAnimal: There is a phab ticket at Notifications: Getting multiple "Thank"s from one user for the same edit is possible (double/duplicate), this may cover it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
That's it! Thanks :) MusikAnimal talk 16:31, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks not appearing[edit]

I'm presenting problems with the thanks feature too. In the article's history the thank option disappeared from the edits, and reads as (undo | ). Only those edits I have thanked before appear as (undo | thanked). I noticed that in the Spanish Wikipedia my option is shown normally. --Jamez42 (talk) 03:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

@Jamez42: That's because MusikAnimal removed it for now; see above thread. Home Lander (talk) 03:29, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
I added a watchliist notice for this outage, pointing to this thread. — xaosflux Talk 04:14, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the watchlist notice! I thought it was just me for a moment. Alex Shih (talk) 05:28, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: I just thanked you on your watchlist notice edit and I notice the action is logged both in my thanks log and your received thanks log. Did you receive notification for this or is it just not going despite the logs showing so?–Ammarpad (talk) 06:17, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
The problem appears to be that the thanks function is thanking the last unthanked edit in the page, regardless of which edit is chosen, so in many cases it is thanking the wrong edit/user. If the edit you thanked happened to be the last unthanked revision you were possibly "lucky" and it will possibly have worked "ok", by chance. The logs seem to be correct, but the feedback you receive at the time of thanking may not be. Don't rely on it at all until it's fixed would be my advice, though. I'm guessing you must have done it from mobile though, and I don't think anyone has confirmed exactly what that is doing, or if there is any difference. -- Begoon 06:36, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
...and I received your thanks for this edit, which, from my log, does appear to have been the most recent revision at the time you thanked me... -- Begoon 07:08, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I am trying to figure it out because from the above, it seems to me like people are also not seeing the button at all. But I understand this edit now hid it, so I am now not seeing the button on desktop version, but still it appears and works in mobile. –Ammarpad (talk) 09:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes I got it, no we don't have it disabled on mobile. See the phab ticket for some more details. — xaosflux Talk 12:37, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
It should be disabled on mobile view now as well. (Not necessarily the mobile APP). — xaosflux Talk 14:47, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
I just discovered it had disappeared from sight on my PC so came here to find that others have the same problem. I can no longer thank people. Doug Weller talk 13:52, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I too discovered that I can see only the parenthesis(), but the Thanks word is absent.SouravDas1998t@lk to me? 19:05, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks is fixed[edit]

  • Thanks to everyone who helped on this. — xaosflux Talk 23:17, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks isn't fixed[edit]

Fixing bugs in math rendering[edit]

Is there some standard forum for reporting bugs with the Wikipedia software itself? Specifically, I'm looking for a place to report the bug described at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics/Typography#Apparent_bug_in_rendering_\operatorname* -- The Anome (talk) 19:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

@The Anome: Here is usually the correct first stop. If you are comfortable, you can report the bug yourself on Phabricator. --Izno (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
As Izno said, bugs ideally get reported on phab:Phabricator by someone. It might also be useful to leave a note at mw:Extension talk:Math, but I don't know how closely that page is watched.
Support for math rendering has historically been an area where volunteer devs such as User:Physikerwelt have contributed more than WMF staff. User:Debenben had a proposal up for the most recent m:Community Wishlist to make some substantial improvements in rendering, but it didn't get enough votes to win. The WMF is working on the plans for the upcoming fiscal year right now, and I've not heard anyone talk about math as a key area for improvements (which isn't proof that they're not). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:52, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
See also here for a similar issue. I added a phab task for something similar, but no one seems to have really paid attention to it. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 20:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
For some reason the input \operatorname* is replaced with \operatorname {*} by the texvc "validation". My suggested fix is to get rid of the broken validation. @Whatamidoing (WMF): Is there a way to influence the plans to include math as an area for improvements?--Debenben (talk) 22:53, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
I believe that most of the changes you've outlined belong to the Reading team (because most of them are about how the formulas display to the readers), and probably User:Jkatz (WMF) knows the most about that team's plan. Eventually, the drafts will be posted on Meta, and any interested person can comment. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:50, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Actually, I should let @OVasileva (WMF): speak to this, as she is closer to the plan than I am. Apologies for the delay. Jkatz (WMF) (talk) 19:41, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
@OVasileva (WMF): Any updates?
I think investing some time into improving the math rendering now would save the reading team a lot of work in the future. Currently there are various different incompatible workarounds used by the editors, each with its own set of problems affecting the readers: The svg and png images usually look bad (unreadably small on iPad1, broken image icons on android 2...), unable to handle languages with non-latin characters, uncopyable... The templates are difficult to use, non-standard, inaccessible to screenreaders and can't handle everything. All of these workarounds have to be maintained only due to the lack of a working rendering system like MathJax, which is what other websites use.
Also, I don't think any volunteer developer would help to re-integrate MathJax or enable client side, HTML-based rendering if it will not become default. As an opt-in via MathML-capable browsers, plug-ins or user-scripts it is already possible today and an alternative system for hiding rendering problems of average readers from the editors is not useful. This situation will not change until the problem that kept the MathJax rendering option from becoming default is resolved: Providing servers (or using a third party cdn?) capable of delivering web-fonts to readers that don't have any suitable math-fonts installed on their device. I believe the additional traffic should not be an issue anymore.
Finally, bad software that is completely useless will not attract volunteer developers. For example, I currently don't see the \operatorname* problem this thread started with ever getting fixed. I created a ticket for my proposed fix: phab:T188879, it would already help if it gets discussed and agreed on.
--Debenben (talk) 19:23, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Refill Mr[edit]

Hi I wanted refill on Marathi Wikipedia but I don't find the way out for it. I requested for it's translation on it's Transifex page yet no response. Can anyone create a version of it for Marathi Wikipedia? I and the community is ready to help in translation and templates needed. --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०†ลℓк †๏ мэ 05:51, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Have you tried doing this in the visual editor? The Marathi Wikipedia already has the citoid service installed, and the visual editor offers a "convert" button for bare URLs. Open the page (in the visual editor; you may need to enable that in your preferences), select the blue ref tag, and then click the "convert" button that will pop up. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:29, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF) and MusikAnimal: While citoid is concerned we have just installed it few days ago and it's not working fine. I've seen the convert button there and it fills one reference at a time (currently not working). Marathi Wikipedia has a lot of bare urls so I needed this tool to convert them on a large scale. Any developer that can make the same type of tool? --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०†ลℓк †๏ мэ 00:58, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
@Tiven2240: Hi, the reason it's not working is because the citation templates added to the message are missing the required TemplateData. I have temporarily disabled the message until this can be fixed. So for instance, the template संकेतस्थळ स्रोत, जर्नल स्रोत, and स्रोत पुस्तक didn't have template data. See'citoid'_maps_value_for_each_Cite_template. Once this template data is added, we can re-enable the message. Mvolz (WMF) (talk) 08:07, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I certainly don't have time to work on it, sorry :( User:Dispenser has a similar tool, maybe he could assist with adding support for mrwiki? Otherwise, as I said ok my talk page, I would ask for help at User talk:Zhaofeng Li/reFill. According to the FAQ this is the means to request that new wikis be added. Best MusikAnimal talk 06:18, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
User:Mvolz (WMF), can you take a look at the citoid situation at w:mr:? This article looks like it has a couple of bare URLs, and citoid is no longer visible there (doubtless due to the 'hide if broken' feature that went out today). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:47, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

@Mvolz (WMF) and Whatamidoing (WMF): I have prepared the template data and seen that the templates are working fine. Hope y'all make the further necessary changes for citoid. --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०†ลℓк †๏ мэ 09:56, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

I did a very quick test, and it looks like it's working now. Do you see any other problems with it? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:42, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Citoid is working all fine. --✝iѵɛɳ२२४०†ลℓк †๏ мэ 23:13, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Documentation on the int: construct[edit]

I was tipped to use this: {{button|{{int:publishchanges}}}}, to show Publish changes all right. Could someone give a link to int: documentation (help, WP, mw, ...). Likely it will also lead to the available options (like this 'publishchanges'). -DePiep (talk) 10:19, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

@DePiep: See mw:Help:Magic_words#Localization. It basically give the translated version of a MediaWiki: translation key. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:07, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict) See mw:Help:Magic words#Localization. {{int:publishchanges}} displays MediaWiki:publishchanges in the reader's interface language, e.g. MediaWiki:publishchanges/de if you select "de - Deutsch" at Special:Preferences. Any pagename in the MediaWiki namespace can be used. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:09, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Oh and Special:AllMessages lists all predefined translation keys (used by the software) and opening a page with language code qqx shows you the names of the keys being used on that page. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:16, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks TheDJ, PrimeHunter. Helpful. -DePiep (talk) 00:21, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Also, it's been in Help:Magic words#Other for four years (as of tomorrow). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:17, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Redrose64, what are you trying to say? You think I did not search it? Or try WP:int:? To me, magic words look like __TOC__, and anything like {{#if: is a parser function (quote from there, lede: "* Parser functions: these take parameters and are either of the form {{foo:...}} or {{#foo:...}}, e.g. {{#invoke:}}. See also Help:Extension:ParserFunctions"). So far for mw consistency and documentation clarity. - DePiep (talk) 15:25, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
A search on help:int would have found information. I have added a hatnote to WP:INT. There are three types of magic words at mw:Help:Magic words#Localization. The term is most commonly used about behavior switches of form __TOC__, but built in parser functions of form {{int:}} with no # are also sometimes called magic words. Extensions like mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions can add more parser functions with # like {{#if:}}. Such added parser functions are not called magic words. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:38, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
This all may be OK, but: I did not find it. "You searched the wrong word spelling [stupid]" is not a reply I expect (yes, this is tough re good editors, but can one disagree?). Already above I pointed out (with links): mw help etc. is inconsistent. - DePiep (talk) 00:29, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I didn't in any way imply you are stupid. I merely showed that searching the help namespace may be useful. I thought it was a helpful tip and didn't expect it to offend you. I don't know which inconsistency you refer to. Your only link was to mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions. It's a help page for a specific extension. {{int:}} is not part of the extension so it's not listed there, but the opening sentence links mw:Help:Magic words#Parser functions where it's listed. If there is a page incorrectly claiming that magic words can only look like __TOC__ and not {{int:}} then please identify it. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:56, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
I encountered int a while ago at Commons and for anyone noticing it there, they have an interesting trick. By convention (at Commons), [[MediaWiki:Lang/XX]], where XX is a language code, contains XX. That means {{int|lang}} is replaced with XX, where XX is the language code for the current user. For example, if your user language preference is French (or if ?uselang=fr is used in the URL), {{int|lang}} would be fr. That happens because c:MediaWiki:Lang/fr contains fr so lang is translated to fr for French. phab:T4085 is relevant. Johnuniq (talk) 22:10, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
BTW, this int is from "interface", not "i18n" nor "integer". -DePiep (talk) 00:29, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
"int" can be short for "interface", but it could also be short for "internationalise". The {{int:...}} function at Commons is exactly the same as it is here, at meta, wiktionary and all the others. At none of them does it mean integer; and I don't know where that i18n comes from. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:45, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
internationalization (i, 18 characters, n) - Internationalization and localization#Naming - but I don't really follow DePiep either... I see int: used a lot at Commons, as Johnuniq describes, and in multilingual file description templates, like: == {{int:filedesc}} == -- Begoon 11:54, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Historical block records erased — bug or Ministry of Truth?[edit]

Bishzilla was admin in 2008 and 2009, perform some blocks, compare AN thread. See also example of block of specific user. Used to be log of these blocks! Now gone![1] How that happen? Where is block log? Pre-September 2009 block log by other admins also apparently erased. Why history erased? Especially considering old blocks still logged under blocked user. Is bug? Now look like Jimbo Wales never blocked Bishonen.[2] (He did, in 2009.) Disgraceful! bishzilla ROARR!! 10:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC).

Joking aside, it does indeed seem as if all blocks performed before ca. 20 September 2009 have been removed from the block log for all admins, which is probably not a good thing. Has this been communicated or discussed before? Fram (talk) 10:39, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Hmm...This definitely do look like a bug.Any phab ticket opened somewhere?~ Winged BladesGodric 11:59, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Not all of them are missing. The block log has plenty of entries for September 2009 and earlier, going right back to 23 December 2004 - those entries dated before 04:53 that day seem to be testing of a new feature. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:37, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
That's not what this is about, Redrose64. When I try to look at the blocks by an individual admin, such as Bishzilla or Jimbo Wales, it shows nothing earlier than September 2009. I know those blocks show up when you look in other ways: for instance, at the blocks of an individual user (example), or at the whole block log, as exemplified by you. Phabricator now says it's been fixed[3] and the fix is "being deployed" — I suppose not deployed yet, because the problem persists when I look. Bishonen | talk 16:23, 8 March 2018 (UTC).
None of the previous comments state that it is only the blocks by an individual admin that are affected. Indeed, Fram wrote "all blocks performed before ca. 20 September 2009 have been removed from the block log for all admins". So I looked at the block log for all admins - and found thousands of entries. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:45, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

The problem is fixed. Fram (talk) 09:05, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Authority control[edit]

I think it could be useful there was a template like the {{Authority control}} template that included {{IMDb name}} (IMDb), {{Find a Grave}} (Find a Grave), {{MusicBrainz artist}} (MusicBrainz), {{Discogs artist}} (Discogs) and {{Wikidata entity link}} (Wikidata) identifiers.

As I see it the authority control is a kind of navigation bar to other websites, specifically those that catalogue people, books and the like. It is clearly intended to assist identification of the subject. For various reasons related to reliability a number of indexes have been excluded, possibly due to reliability, although ORCID is also user-generated and is included.

Imdb is listed at the bottom of almost every article about an actor, it would make sense to have a template similar to Authority control but for biographies of people in the entertainment industry. I also don't see why there are links to all the library databases except ours, adding wikidata seems completely logical, especially as that is where the data is coming from. By having a set template, it would be easier to stop the proliferation of external links (often used as a store for promotional material), because the section would not be needed to link to IMDb/etc. It would also be easier to add the same template to all actors/musicians, and display better for people that are both. Prince of Thieves (talk) 10:39, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

All these sources are unreliable ones. Musicbrainz is already included in Authority control anyway (but should be removed from it as it is a wiki where the main text is just a reproduction of our article anyway), and Wikidata is linked from the left side panel. Adding Findagrave and the like to more articles, or institutionalizing it in a template, is the wrong way to go. Removing them from many more articles is what needs to be done. Fram (talk) 10:43, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
There is this big difference: {{Authority control}} ({AC}) only cross-links external identifiers, not additional information ("what is this article named in library system Xyz?"). Accordingly, {AC} is not part of the article content (same as navboxes). So if you want to link to WP:EXTERNALLINKS (that do have extra info and are within article content), that would require a different template. One can not use {AC} for this.
That said, by information approach: I think such an {AC}-like, and an MOS:EL-defined template is useful and needed. Today {{Chembox}} (an infobox), is overloaded with EL's in the identifiers section (e.g. Carbon monoxide). - DePiep (talk) 11:00, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
User:DePiep, you might consider using Template:Medical resources as a model. Those links were previously handled in infoboxes. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:04, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
  • To be clear I am looking for a new template like Authority control, not to add imdb to the existing Authority control template, this would then be used instead of existing imdb, musicbrainz, discogs and fa grave templates. It would be used purely as an external link template, and would not allow people to cite imdb any more than they do already. Prince of Thieves (talk) 11:07, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
@Fram: I can't see Musicbrainz in the Authority control template documentation, for sme reason it's implementation has not been made clear. It is in Module:Authority control, but I cannot not I can't see why it should be in that template. Prince of Thieves (talk) 12:12, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
There are many more resources included in Authority control than there are listed in its documentation. Who decides about which numbers are included is not really clear, I suppose the handful of people reading the template talk page? A thorough discussion about which IDs should be included (or which ones should be included in some cases but not in others), and how to display this (removing the actual numbers and keeping only the database names would reduce the "heaviness" of the template significantly), is needed, but I'm not the one who is going to start it. Fram (talk) 09:10, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

NOTICE: EducationProgram extension is being deprecated[edit]

Please help translate to your language. Thank you!.

Over the years many issues have been discovered from our engineering colleagues regarding the Education Extension, including security concerns. For this reason, and with a viable alternative platform available, we are starting the process to deprecate the extension and having it uninstalled where it has been activated. This includes this wiki Special:Courses.

This means that the following steps will be taken:

  1. New programs are discouraged from using the extension and encouraged to use the Programs and Events Dashboard.
  2. Current ongoing programs will be supported, until the month of June, 2018.
  3. On June 30, 2018, the Education Extension will be shut down.
  4. If you are still running an education program that uses the Education Extension, please take the appropriate measures and also reach out to your colleagues and communities so they are also aware.

It should be noted that data of previous programs that ran on the Education Extension will remain safe, and we are working on documenting how to access that data.

Thus, we invite all Education Program Leaders (and users of the Education Extension) to take the online training for the dashboard so that you can benefit from this tool and make your work easier.

Did you know you can also use the P&E Dashboard at edit-a-thons, writing competitions, and other Wiki-based activities? More training courses for the dashboard are available here, so take a look!

Do you need to communicate with us about this?

  • If you have comments or questions, please reach out to the Education Team at educationAt, or the Programs and Events Dashboard group at dashboardAt
  • If you use Phabricator, you can also go to:
  • You are also welcome to share questions and comments on

-- On behalf of the Education Team 19:56, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

This is just a dummy reply that contains a signature with a link to a user page so this thread will be archived. Graham87 12:14, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Article creation date[edit]

A researcher wrote to Wikimedia asking for help identifying the creation date of an article.

I responded that we typically equate the creation date to the date of the first edit.

I was slightly surprised I didn't find anything formally stating this.

I can think of a couple things to be concerned about if one adopted this is a rule (the intention, I believe, is to do a statistical analysis of the entire set of articles).

  1. Some of the edits of the very oldest articles are missing, so that the first edit one can find in the existing database is slightly more recent than the original creation edit.
  2. There may be some issues when a redirect is converted to an article. For example, if someone created a redirect 2010, and someone else converted it into a proper article in 2015, what is the creation date of the article? Depending on the nature of the study, one could make an argument for both dates and given that they might be separated by years, this is worth thinking about.

Are there other important classes of articles that could be an issue? In the case of deleted and restored articles typically the history is preserved so I don't see an issue there.

I would also urge the researcher to think about the definition of an article. For example, I believe we have more redirects than articles, and deciding to count redirects as articles would have major implications on average edits per article, for example.S Philbrick(Talk) 21:26, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

If a draft is moved to mainspace then it can be discussed whether the first edit or the move is the creation date. Sometimes the first edit is from a sandbox used for other purposes. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:37, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
The Did You Know? project's criteria for a newly created article is the date on which it first appeared in mainspace. As PrimeHunter suggests, an article can be worked on by one or more people in Draftspace or user sandbox for a very long time - years even - prior to being moved into mainspace. Sometimes moving a draft from a sandbox is a simple copy/paste job into mainspace or to WP:AFC, thus losing every scrap of prior editing history. I'm not sure I'd ever consider that creating a redirect is the same as creating an article - in what circumstances might that seem to apply? Nick Moyes (talk) 09:58, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Please test pings in edit summary[edit]

1. Read this:

"You can notify users in edit summaries. They will get a ping just as if they had been mentioned on a wiki page. phab:T32750"-- meta:Tech/News/2018/10

2. Sign up at using a different user name and password (not the one you use here). You may create multiple accounts if you like, just put a note on their user pages.

3. Edit a page and put a username link in edit summary. Confirm that you are receiving the notification correctly.

4. Test at different pages and in different ways.

5. Report bugs to Phabricator.

6. Share this comment with other people on other wikis, in different languages.

--Gryllida (talk) 23:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Please see mw:How to report a bug and use this Phabricator link instead (as follow-up bug fixes were nothing that was voted on in the Community Wishlist Survey 2017). Thanks. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 11:48, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Searching user contributions[edit]

We used to be able to go to an account and look at all contribs in a certain year. Now we have to fiddle with a calendar and add start and end year, month and day. Does anyone know why this was changed, and is it possible to get the old interface back? SarahSV (talk) 04:33, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

2015 Community Wishlist Survey, coming in 15th place overall. No, you cannot revert back to the old interface, but I agree the calendars don't really help your use case. Perhaps it's easier to type in the dates (YYYY-MM-DD format)? You shouldn't have to put in an end date MusikAnimal talk 05:33, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
There's always tradeoffs :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:59, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I guess it would help if you could just type "2008" in that field and it would automatically interpret that as 2008-01-01... It seems more strict on that fields validation now, than it has to be really. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:01, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
@TheDJ: yes, that would help a lot. It does require an end date, by the way, but I've just discovered that it doesn't require a start date. SarahSV (talk) 02:13, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
The old query string parameters still work, try these out:
I guess somebody could write some JavaScript that adds the appropriate <input /> or <select>...</select> elements to the existing form. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:04, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
@Redrose64: thanks, that's good to know. Pinging Kaldari too. Can the interface be changed to allow us to enter the year only, so that we have access to that year and everything before and after it as needed? That is, the way it worked before. The new interface is fiddly. It would be nice if we could easily bypass it. SarahSV (talk) 02:13, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Teahouse Ask-A-Question form fails to function in iOS[edit]

Screenshot of Teahouse's "Ask a Question" form on iPhone 5 showing overlapping text and no acccess to the question box itself.

Over the last few months we've seen a number of reports at the Teahouse that our page does not display properly in iOS, and especially that our "Ask a Question" tool doesn't work on iOS devices. See here, and here. I can certainly confirm this to be the case, having first reported it myself in December 2017. The screenshot shown here was taken today, and is no different from how it displayed back then.

On clicking the blue "Ask a Question" form, it's possible to enter text into the "Subject" line, but there is no access to the box to complete the question text itself, and, as can be seen, other elements of the page overlap one another. - a real mess. I can also confirm that if I log in from my alternative account User:NM Demo (which uses only the default settings any newly signed up person would have), the problem is also seen there, too.

The issue is of special concern because new users who want to ask a question simply won't have sufficient knowledge to know what to do once the Teahouse's own form fails them. I'd really appreciate it if this could be investigated. Regards from the Teahouse, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: which version of iOS ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:56, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Oops, sorry. I can only speak for myself: iOS 10 (10.3.3 - if I'm reading my phone correctly). I've intentionally not updated to iOS11 as I understood that version 11 now saves image files in a format that renders them unreadable to Windows users. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:02, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
@TheDJ: It's worth adding that I've just tried the similar-looking "Ask a Question" form at WP:CQ and I don't have any problem accessing the form's subject line, the main text entry box,or the Publish changes button, whereas that's not possible with the Teahouse's question box. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:07, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Hmm, that's MediaWiki:Gadget-teahouse/content.js and it's about as broken on desktop as it's on mobile really. Really needs to be rewritten from scratch with OOui or something. Maybe if we look very nicely at MusikAnimal he might be willing to take it on as part of community tech ? :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:50, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I've disabled it for now as this is just obstructive and prohibitive right now I think. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:12, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
@TheDJ: - thank you. I've just made a couple of test posts from a desktop PC and from my iPhone 5, and both post published OK. It's great when disabling something makes something else work properly. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 15:09, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
It does seem like a fairly important script. However it probably won't be trivial to rewrite it, at least if we use OOJS =p. I can't say if Community Tech would be able to work on this but feel free to create a phab task. You'd need to find something else to tag it with other than just community-tech, though :) MusikAnimal talk 21:43, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

User talk namespace template message for updating accessdate[edit]

Is there a user talk namespace template message to notify editors to update the |access-date= parameter in citing templates, such as {{cite web}}? -- AlexTW 11:57, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Why would we need to do this? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:12, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
It's a common thing, I've noticed, for an editor to update the statistics for websites like Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, especially for films and television series, and not update the access-date parameter when they do so. Per the documentation of {{cite web}} for |access-date=: Full date when the content pointed to by url was last verified to support the text in the article [...] Note that access-date is the date that the URL was found to be working and to support the text being cited. This means that the parameter needs to be updated whenever the statistics are as well. For editors that do not do this, a user talk namespace template message would be handy; I was wondering if anything like this already existed. If it didn't, I was planning to create it. -- AlexTW 12:23, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I also see this often in box office numbers, sports statistics and other changing data with a fixed source. An addition to Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace sounds fine. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:36, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Okay, great. Just wanted to make sure that they didn't exist before I created them. -- AlexTW 03:21, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 Done Now at {{uw-accessdate1}} and {{uw-accessdate2}}. -- AlexTW 04:32, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Shortcuts (Ctrl+I, Ctrl+B etc.) don't work any more in source code editor[edit]

Hi, I recently discovered that these shortcuts don't work in source code editor. I remembered them to work before. The weirder is, if you turned on syntax highlighting, upon pressing, say, ctrl+I, you can visually see the selected text became italic and then immediately changed back to normal.

I'm using Google Chrome. I have this problem on Chinese Wikipedia as well, tested logged in and logged out (to make sure it's not caused by non-default gadgets). --fireattack (talk) 15:23, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello, fireattack, and thank you for this note. Which of the mw:editors are you using? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:54, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF):: I believe it's mw:Extension:WikiEditor one (2010). --fireattack (talk) 22:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for this. I haven't been able to reproduce this in Safari or Firefox on my Mac, but the flash for syntax highlighting happens in Chrome. Are you running Windows (version?)?
Also, I wanted to say thanks for your thoroughness in testing (logged in and out, more than one wiki). I really appreciate it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF):: I'm on Win 10/7. I tested with Firefox, these shortcuts are overridden by Firefox's own features (both Ctrl+B and Ctrl+I will just toggle Firefox's bookmark sidebar), so I doubt it even gets registered by the web page (needless to say, no flashing since they straighly up don't do anything). -fireattack (talk) 19:22, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Parse Template:Location map entries[edit]

Dear Wikipedians,

I'm looking for a solution to parse the {{Location map~}} templates. So from

{{Location map+|England|width=300|caption=Example.|float=right |places=
  {{Location map~ |England |label=[[Battle of Blore Heath|Blore Heath]] |label_size=86 |position=top |lat=52.913611 |long=-2.424722 |mark=Battle_icon_(crossed_swords).svg |marksize=16 }}
  {{Location map~ |England |label=[[Battle of Tewkesbury|Tewkesbury]] |label_size=86 |position=top |lat=51.986389 |long=-2.161389 |mark=Battle_icon_(crossed_swords).svg |marksize=16 }}

I would like to get out all label=, lat= and long= tags. Do you know any linux commandline tool, which could do this? Sorry if that's not obvious to me.--Lazy Eight (talk) 07:22, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

I was able to do this partially with:
grep lat|sed '/lat/s/.*| *lat *= *\([^}|]*\).*$/lat=\1/g' |grep lat=
grep long|sed '/lat/s/.*| *long *= *\([^}|]*\).*$/long=\1/g' |grep long=

But label broke due to the pipes in the link Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:17, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

I think it was just solved on Stackoverflow. @Graeme Bartlett: How should your code be run?--Intl Railways (talk) 11:03, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
This is part of a pipe. You can add <filename to the grep. or use something like wget -O- "URL" to launch it into the pipe. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:14, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
This is why we should move all this into wikidata :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:13, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Broken template[edit]

Template:USS seems to have suddenly broke. For example, see USS Enterprise (CVN-65) Is there a template editor or knowledgeable admin than can take a look? This is affecting every ship article right now. - theWOLFchild 19:08, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

I undid the last edit to the template, which seems to have fixed the problem for now. Honestly, I have no idea what that edit was trying to accomplish so I'm not sure if there would be a better way to do it. Paging DePiep, who made the edit. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 19:19, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for getting to that to that so quickly. List of current ships of the United States Navy was a ghastly red mess! Cheers - theWOLFchild 19:23, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
My mistake. Did the edit again, without it. - DePiep (talk) 19:24, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Visual editor - discard "unsaved changes"[edit]

Is there any way to discard the "unsaved changes" of the visual editor. It's all very well that it saves them, but here am I, using VE for the automatic citation filler, then copyediting in source to use LDRs. Then, VE wants to revert those changes because they weren't made under VE. This is a problem, and could catch out somebody who discarded changes for a reason. Bellezzasolo Discuss 19:56, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

You might want to try VisualEditor's wikitext mode, which you can enable in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures. (I recommend turning the "syntax highlighting" beta feature off, as the two sometimes don't play well together.) Then you'll get the visual editor's toolbar, with the mw:citoid button, but you'll be working in wikitext the whole time and not need to switch at all (except perhaps for table editing, because everyone agrees that deleting columns from tables is much easier in the visual mode  ;-). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:27, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

How to test that a date/time string is in "yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss" format?[edit]

Need an explanation, or perhaps a pointer elsewhere. How can I check that a supplied date/time string is in yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss format? Presumably with a suitable regex, but I can't find any parser functions for that. Do I have to dip into Lua? Is there a module for that? (I know regex, but having trying to avoid having to learn Lua.) ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 00:46, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

@J. Johnson: What is your purpose? Does the time parserfunction help the overall purpose, or no? If it does not, there are similar functions in Lua. --Izno (talk) 01:01, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
If you decide to go with Lua, I wrote a simple function dateFormat() that returns the format (dmy, mdy, iso, ymd) of a given date. In Module:Webarchive - it would need expansion to parse hh:mm:ss -- GreenC 01:11, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Does {{#ifeq:{{#time:Y-m-d H:i:s|TIME}}|TIME|yes|no}} work. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 01:30, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
As others have said, please explain the purpose, preferably with an example of what would go in an article and what the wanted result would be. Module:Date can parse dates, see the examples in the documentation at {{extract}}. That template can tell you what format was used, but it only returns dmy, mdy or ymd.
  • {{extract|2001-2-1 14:30:25|show=format}} → ymd
Johnuniq (talk) 02:07, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

If you use anything other than a plain regular expression, there is a danger the function will have limitations you didn't think about, like failing for dates before AD 100, regarding 29 February 1900 as invalid, etc. A full statement of the requirements is called for. Jc3s5h (talk) 02:24, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you all, those look like good ideas. The key element is that I want to check the format, not validate or return a date/time. Which I think I can work out now. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:06, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Abusefilter conditions[edit]

OK. Thanks. --Horus (talk) 15:07, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Lead section [edit] link[edit]

When we go to Preferences → Gadgets and scroll down to Appearance, the first checkbox is "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page". When this is checked, and when the "Move section [edit] links to the right side of the screen" preference is also checked, the edit link appears low enough to be sliced by the horizontal line that underscores the page title. This is unlike all the other edit links for later sections of an article. Those edit links are above the horizontal line that underscores section titles. Is it possible to raise the lead-section edit link so it appears above the line like the other edit links? (Note that if the "Move section [edit] links to the right side of the screen" preference is not checked, then the [edit] link comes right after the title and is positioned correctly above the horizontal line.) I use Windows 10 and have checked this in IE v11 and Chrome v65.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  15:33, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

It looks normal for me in Win10 and Chrome (vector skin). What skin do you use? Ruslik_Zero 16:25, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
I use the vector skin, too.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  17:13, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
(You should consider upgrading to Edge from IE11.) --Izno (talk) 16:48, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
I have Edge. eeyechhhh!  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  17:13, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
PS I just checked it with Edge v41 and have the same problem. PS left by  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  17:22, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
PPS I just checked it with Firefox v57 – same problem. PPS added by  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  17:44, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
What screen resolution do you use? Ruslik_Zero 00:04, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
My Windows 10 setting is 1280 x 1024, and in IE and Chrome the text size is set to "largest" with 100% zoom. In Edge and Firefox the text size is set to normal.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  12:30, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
It may be an interference from another gadget or script. Try to disable them one by one. Ruslik_Zero 18:26, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
If you have more than a couple, then a binary search pattern is faster: disable half, and see if it's still a problem. If it's still broken, then disable half of what's left and check again. If it isn't, then put half of the removed ones back in, and check those. You may also want to see mw:Help:Locating broken scripts. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:16, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you Ruslik_Zero and Whatamidoing (WMF)! The gadget that makes the difference is under "Appearance" called "Vector classic typography (use only sans-serif in Vector skin)". I started using that when titles and section headers were changed by the software. I find that when it's not checked, not only is the lead section edit link high enough to clear the horizontal line, all the section header edit links appear visibly higher than when it's checked, as well. This looks like something that can and should be fixed by the software, doesn't it?  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  15:15, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Lopadotemachoselachogaleokra etc...[edit]

There is a rendering problem with this article, basically the title carries on way off the screen breaking the format and creating a bottom scrollbar where there would not be one normally, but the rest of the page stops short at it's normal breakpoint, leaving the title projecting on it's own. Prince of Thieves (talk) 01:15, 12 March 2018 (UTC) ~

@Prince of Thieves: it is wrapping at the display end for me, with both Firefox and Chrome, logged in and logged out. What browser and conditions are you viewing it under? — xaosflux Talk 01:42, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
Looks fine to me. Firefox 58 on Mac OS. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:42, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
The reported version is [4] which doesn't wrap the title for me in Firefox. I fixed the DISPLAYTITLE with word breaks to match the article name so the name can wrap at top of the article. It cannot wrap in other places like categories and search results. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:44, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
What PrimeHunter did fixed it, it wraps fine now. Prince of Thieves (talk) 01:51, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

updated since my last visit ???[edit]

I see updated since my last visit in a lot of edit summeries. What does that mean? Is there some piece of automated software that's inserting that? It's a pretty useless edit summary, since it doesn't give somebody scanning the history any clue what changed, or why. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:51, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

It isn't an edit summary, it's an automated message after the edit summary that tells you that this edit was done after the last time you checked the page. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:02, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:17, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
You can hide it with this in your CSS:
.updatedmarker {display: none;}
PrimeHunter (talk) 19:58, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-11[edit]

19:43, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Notification from edit summary[edit]

  • The English Wikipedia should be good to go as far as modifications to scripts are concerned, what hasn't been updated yet will be by Thursday. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:41, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
This is cool. Thanks for implementing Keegan (WMF) (and all those involved) --TheSandDoctor (talk) 15:13, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Enlarging text[edit]

Sorrowfully, I can't seem to find instructions for enlarging text in the edit window. I'll appreciate any help that comes in that regard. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 05:55, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

On my browser I can do ctrl-mouse wheel rotation to enlarge or shrink all text. ctrl-shift-+ also enlarges. There would be a style sheet change that should change it too. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:01, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
OK style sheet change in User:John Cline/common.css: .mw-editfont-monospace {font-size: 200% !important;}
will double the size. Change 200 to get a size you like. (I am finding its a bit too big for me!) Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:08, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
(I also note you are trying to include the deleted page: MediaWiki:Gadget-textareasansserif.css in your vector.css.) (this originally said textarea { font-family: sans-serif; } Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you very much!--John Cline (talk) 08:59, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Gender research on deleted articles[edit]

Hi all

I've been thinking a lot about the gender gap on Wikipedia recently and would like to understand if there is a relationship between the gender of a biography articleand article deletions. Is there a way to know the gender of the subject of deleted biography articles?

The question I'd most like to understand is are biographies about women more or less likely to get deleted? and if there is a large difference, why does this happen.

Also related questions:

  • Are articles about women more or less likely to be nominated for deletion than articles about men and in general?
  • Are articles about women that are nominated for deletion more or less likely to be deleted than articles about men and in general?

Is the data to do this research available? And if so how ould it be collected?

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 14:29, 13 March 2018 (UTC) (@Victuallers: who may be interested.) John Cummings (talk) 08:32, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

@John Cummings: your edit that tried to ping Victuallers didn't work because you didn't add a signature while making it. Graham87 07:00, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks @Graham87:, fixed. John Cummings (talk) 08:32, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi John (thx Graham) I'm not sure this is a technical question yet, as to my mind the major problem is to just phrase the experimental query that may lead to a convincing answer. There may be more notable male footballers than there are women who have played professionally. There are I guess more notable Crimean female nurses than there were Victorian male nurses. Some will seize on the results to feed the idea that the reason why there are so few women biogs is because of wiki admin discrimination. I'm not saying that the latter might not exist (can you prove it) but with (maybe) 100,000 plus missing notable women biographies already listed then it would just be misleading to highlight an article that was deleted as being the "poster girl" cause for systemic bias. (There are instances where female editors have been bullied off Wikipedia, but these are anecdotes.) So if I had to suggest an experiment then I would apply ORES scores to a month of newly written articles. I would see what percentage were deleted as just "rubbish" within a day. I would take a sample of those that were PRODed and those that were AFD'd and then those that were deleted. And then I would look at whether any of those groups contained a higher percent of females (adjusted for ORES score) than the original population. Or something like that. I suspect you may just discover systemic bias (which feeds a lot of twitter anger). Good luck!! Roger aka Victuallers (talk) 09:11, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Oooo! I just thought of a counter experiment. Let us presume that the AFD system is absolutely biased and corrupt and all the female articles that were deleted were deleted unfairly. So if we put ALL of those back into our new 'Wikipedia .... then what effect would that have on the percentage of women on the new 'Wikipedia? How about if we also halved, quartered or decimated (divide by ten) all the male biogs that were successful .... then would that make a substantial difference? I think that answer might be quite revealing. Victuallers (talk) 09:37, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Just FYI, in many cases "gender" of the article subjects is recorded at their WikiData entry, so it should be able to be looked up even if the page is removed. — xaosflux Talk 15:25, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Gender is not consistently recorded for deleted articles, a number of which are deleted before wikidata entries are completed or the articles are categorized, and categorization does not always include gender, in any event. I do find that at least for the last several years that inclusion on deletion sorting lists is fairly common for individuals. Men are usually included at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/People, whereas women are usually included at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Women and sometimes Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/People. I'd be tempted to say that the implications of this linguistic decision are an exercise left to the reader but that would truly be unfair as, in my experience, women are included on the specialized list by the hardworking volunteers who do sorting so as to facilitate review by editors particularly interested in women's biographies. This does not include articles deleted via WP:PROD or WP:SPEEDY but might be a place to start gathering data. Caveats about taking into account all the potential inappropriate comparisons assumed. (talk) 16:04, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Labels and data are misaligned in Infobox film[edit]

Just dropping by to let y'all know that there's an issue relating to line-height that might be of interest to anyone watching this page. – Srdjan m (talk) 15:38, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Mysteriously-watched pages[edit]

Normally, I only watch pages that I have edited. Occasionally, something will show up on my watchlist and I have no recollection of why I might be interested in the page, but after checking the history of the page, its talk page, and their logs, an explanation surfaces. So, it's something of a puzzle as to why this edit has shown on my watchlist. I can't find evidence of me editing the page. Insects aren't my thing either - they creep me out. This is not the first page that is watched w/o explanation. Any ideas? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

You could just have accidentally clicked the watch tab while viewing the image. You reviewed Template talk:FPCresult#Adding noinclude 28 January 2013. The template was on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Acrocinus longimanus MHNT femelle.jpg, while Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Harlequin beetle was open and got the template two days later. Maybe you looked for uses of the template and also clicked the image. I have no recollection of random pages I came by five years ago. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:57, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
You also might want to check your settings in preferences. One of them is "Add pages I create and files I upload to my watchlist", and another is "Add pages and files I edit to my watchlist". This may not account for the beetle pic, but it might be the source of links you haven't seen in a long while.     — The Transhumanist    22:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
I've had both of those enabled since forever; but I have no edits or uploads scored against that page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
It could be interesting to log watchlist changes somewhere. Added phab:T190003 which may or may not be a duplicate as I haven't checked. Please check its status in the coming days. Gryllida (talk) 02:28, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Double move[edit]

Does anybody have any idea why I seem to have moved the same pair of pages twice within the same minute? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't have an idea but this query along with your above query suggests that something might be up with your account. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:38, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
I found another pair of double log entries from twenty minutes earlier. What do you think might be up with my account? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:42, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
When you move some page the related talk page also gets moved, hence the "talk" part in them. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 09:25, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
@Sjoerddebruin: I know that; my question is not about why the talk pages are logged, but about why there are two log entries for each category page and for each category talk page. That is to say, the log at 20:45, 13 March 2018 shows two instances of "moved page Category talk:NA-Class Finance articles to Category talk:NA-Class Finance & Investment articles" together with two of "moved page Category:NA-Class Finance articles to Category:NA-Class Finance & Investment articles" when I should expect only one of each. Similarly, the log at 20:26, 13 March 2018 shows two instances of "moved page Category talk:Start-Class Finance articles to Category talk:Start-Class Finance & Investment articles" together with two of "moved page Category:Start-Class Finance articles to Category:Start-Class Finance & Investment articles" when I should expect only one of each. Other page moves that I carried out in that timeframe log only one entry for each category page, and one for each category talk page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:23, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
My best guess at the moment is that if you accidentally click "Move page" twice, the two submissions might both get past the "valid move?" checks before either gets to actually performing the move so both wind up doing the move. The second mostly does no-op updates like setting the page's title to the already-set new title, but it does create an extra log entry and null revision in the moved page's history. Spot checking a few date ranges, I see this has happened for other users' moves too and goes back at least a few years (e.g. Nishonoseki stable (1935) was supposedly moved twice at 2015-01-01 18:54). Anomie 12:15, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Can double-clicks really do that? Since a number of people are unclear as to when a single click is sufficient and may use double-click "just in case", it sounds like something we should guard against, like not firing another event when there's already an identical one pending. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:23, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

A technical question regarding warning users before submitting potential copyright violations[edit]

First, this is not a proposal; do not !vote on it. This is a question for anyone who has a good idea how the Wikimedia software works regarding whether something would be technically possible, as well as the difficulty level required.

Would it be possible to put a system in place which does the following:

  • Whenever a new article is created, prior to 'publishing' going through, the article is automatically run through the copyvios detector.
  • If the submission has a confidence of 50% or higher, a warning message pops up warning the user that they might be submitting a copyright violation (link to the copyvios report) and giving a bit of information on what is ok to copy and what isn't (i.e. you can't copy from your own website unless the content there is under a suitable licence).
  • The warning asks the submitting user if they want to proceed or not, and if they do, it publishes the article but also flags the article for New Page Patrol as a potential copyright violation needing review.

Some information if there are any technical or legal roadblocks to the implementation of such a system would be great. Thanks. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 09:14, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

No, this would not be possible as things currently stand. You'd need to either A) port the copyvio tool to be a MediaWiki extension outright, or B) have the tool expose an API of sorts that a MediaWiki extension could call and then use the results from. Either way, you'd need a new extension. FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY [u+1F602] 17:51, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
There is an extension request for images (that's phab:T31793). A similar phab task could be filed.
It sounds like a pretty good idea, generally, and it is definitely something which could be implemented. We do have ORES today (ORES documentation), so deeper integration there (ORES supports edit filters I think--but definitely has an API which a bot could use) might be a good idea. --Izno (talk) 18:07, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
From a tech standpoint, your use case is trivially subverted (a) create the page (b) edit it to include the "copyvio" stuff. So instead you'd need to score each edit - which could be computationally expensive if you wanted it to be real time (the current tool says Running a full check can take up to a minute if other websites are slow or if the tool is under heavy use. Please be patient. If you get a timeout, wait a moment and refresh the page.. Other tech challenges - putting such a tool in the way of production editing would mean that it would have to be well supported, 24/365 by paid staff. The other, much more serious problem is that those automated tools are horribly prone to false positives. For example I pulled up a Featured Article (Acrocanthosaurus) and ran that check on it - it got a 98% copyvio score. So either its a huge FP, or we are doing a poor job maintaining FA's.... (or the editor published elsewhere, etc,etc etc) - they are also bad with public domain text. — xaosflux Talk 19:49, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
I would assume in this case the Detector is detecting pages out on the web which are copies of our Acrocanthosaurus article, as it has been a featured article for quite a while. Presumably, it would have less trouble with newly created articles. - dcljr (talk) 05:42, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
[interpolated comment] Actually, xaosflux, come to think of it, the results of your test could be seen as a complete success, since anyone creating a new article that's an exact copy of the Acrocanthosaurus one would indeed be submitting a copyvio. [grin] - dcljr (talk) 05:54, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
It is trivially easy to circumvent but that doesn't mean it couldn't be useful to stop copyvios, even if it only checked when a new page is created. Most people adding those copyvios are not of the malicious sort. Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:49, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
I think this could make copyvios harder to detect as the users would start rewording the plagiarised text until the copyvio detector stops complaining (but the copyvio issue would remain simply by putting words in different order). I would personally favour making more adequate use of edit intros and interactive wizards which encourage users to copy/paste quotes from sources into a dedicated text area so that they do not have to switch tabs back and forth, and have an opportunity to rewrite them in their own words in the article. Gryllida (talk) 02:24, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

JavaScript exploit at fawiki[edit]

Paraphrased from wikitech-l and a couple of other posts: On 14 March 2018, cryptocurrency mining software was discovered on fawiki. It was removed and the user responsible globally locked soon after. It appears (from here) that fawiki was configured so that anyone with the template editor right could also edit the MediaWiki namespace, including fa:MediaWiki:Common.js. Any website (particularly those with adverts) could attack users browsing with scripting enabled, and at enwiki, a compromised admin account could attack individuals or everyone with js exploits. Johnuniq (talk) 04:07, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

It is interesting why that revision was fully suppressed after that? Ruslik_Zero 18:33, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
For WP:BEANS reasons mostly I presume. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:01, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
This kind of exploit has been possible in MediaWiki for over a decade. Discussions to solve this exploit start again every year or so, but typically the same solutions are proposed as in previous discussions, and the same arguments for and against the solutions are rehashed each time. --Deskana (talk) 11:26, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Yeah this is nothing new that it is possible, but it is one of the more atrocious occurrences of it having actually been exploited by a 'trusted' user (possibly boosted by the crypto hype making people more aware of the seriousness of such incidents). We've been discussing ways to fix this hole without pissing off users for several years. As I've stated many times before, if we were to have started MediaWiki in the late 2000s, early 2010s, then this whole feature would have never existed and neither would user scripts. But since it does, it will take many many years to get rid of it. Some day... either it will be abused so terribly that we have to shut it down completely, or we find a solution that works and piss off some people :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
I am not sure that it would not be a solution in search of a problem - this is incident actually proved that it is impossible to insert any malicious code in the MediaWiki namespace scripts. Ruslik_Zero 20:02, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
TheDJ, mediawiki without user scripts would be difficult to use, no? How do you think that would be implemented? Experienced editors would perhaps have to rely on desktop apps instead of using the web site. There is just so many routine tasks which need to be customized by the user that I do not know how that ecosystem would even work. For instance I started reviewing drafts recently and I find I often need to mark things and add comments ('wonderful professor(biased, rephrase or remove)' kind of thing inline). If not for user scripts then doing this would become rather laborious and time consuming. Gryllida (talk) 02:20, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

/a/ in IPA[edit]

Hi. Im trying to add pronunciation help to an article, in the form of a phonemic transcription using IPA, like this: (/ˈkɒns.tənˌt[invalid input: 'a']ɪn/). It all works, except the a -- whether I use the cheat-sheet or copy the character from another good source. Where am I going wrong, please? I'm using Safari 11.0.3. Thanks --Frans Fowler (talk) 02:29, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, found it myself. Use aɪ as a 'single' character - (/ˈkɒns.tənˌtn/) --Frans Fowler (talk) 02:42, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Help needed on French Wikipedia[edit]

I am needing the help of a French speaking Wikipedian. On French Wikipedia, user Angela Criss is an obvious sockpuppet of Jack Gaines (talk · contribs). As I do not speak French, could someone please inform any French Wikipedia admins as to the user's doings, and ask them to protect any articles pertaining to Alan Jackson? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 23:48, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Pintoch (talk · contribs), one for you perhaps? Merci bien. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:50, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
@Redrose64: sure! but it looks like it was done and dusted before I arrived. − Pintoch (talk) 05:40, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Editing edit summaries[edit]

Like these nested dolls, putting things in things gets complex. If you edit the edit summary and leave an edit summary for your edit summary, then that edit summary for the edit summary could need to be edited, in which case there would be an edit summary for the edit summary of the edit summary of the edit, which could in turn need to be edited. This can go on ad infinitum and be a distracting mind game, or a interesting film plot. -- Prince of Thieves (talk) 19:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

I know there must have been plenty of people who have proposed this before, but I would like to know if the interface could be modified to allow editors to change their edit summaries after they have saved the edit, rather than having to make a new edit where they don't do anything (or as it is sometimes called, a "null edit") just to modify their last edit summary. On a project otherwise defined by an almost complete ability to modify content after it has been posted, it seems odd that no one can change their own edit summaries (but of course you shouldn't be able to change others', just your own). Every morning (there's a halo...) 03:55, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

See e.g. the declined phab:T12105 and phab:T15937. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:17, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
There would have to be a history of changes to each summary, and the ability for people to patrol changes to summaries to watch for vandalism or personal attacks or the like, and so on. That sort of thing quickly gets rather complicated. Anomie 13:35, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
As Anomie implied, building a miniwiki for edit summary content would not be particularly productive. It's not too hard to make another empty edit, but it's super easy to preview your edit summary before hitting save/publish. We can edit content, but not history; same goes for the edit summary. ~ Amory (utc) 14:59, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
If I were to edit a prior edit summary, there should be somewhere for me to provide a description of the edit too, hmm that one might need to be adjusted to, it will be summaries all the way down. — xaosflux Talk 15:06, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
This sounds like corrections would become recursive, and that would cause really weird situations when trying to quote a diff. There would also be the issue of how to view the past revisions of edit summaries. Prince of Thieves (talk) 19:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC) (added image Prince of Thieves (talk) 19:27, 17 March 2018 (UTC))

Bug adding lines of blank text[edit]

Hi all, per instructions at Phabricator, I'm stopping to inquire here first; I'm well out of my depth on this and would be grateful for guidance.

I appear to be encountering a bug that is now repeatedly adding extra blank lines to the same spot in one entry (1, 2, 3). I'm editing in browser Firefox Quantum 58.0.2. If I'm tracking this correctly, it's only when I use the Visual Editor, although I was working on the same entry earlier in the day and this had not been happening, even on Visual Editor.

Might someone be willing, firstly, to cast a second set of eyes to make sure there's not some straightforward issue I'm overlooking, and if not, then assist me in properly reporting the matter (whether that's at Phabricator or wherever the appropriate place might be)? Much obliged! Innisfree987 (talk) 00:50, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Huh. Error no longer reproducing today. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Nope, jinxed it. Appears only to be happening when I edit the section nearest the error. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

File restore error[edit]

Hello. I tried to perform a WP:HISTSPLIT on Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2018_March_10#File:Taisekiji_Hoanden.JPG. Everything worked fine, except the last stage - restoring. I want to restore these revisions, but depending on which revisions I select, I am either faced with this or this error. Any clue what's going on? I've done file splits many times on Commons. But I think this is the first time I've tried on enwiki. Cheers, Rehman 02:00, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

This sounds like a MediaWiki bug. You'd be advised to file it in Phabricator: mw:How to report a bug. — This, that and the other (talk) 08:17, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
File:Enwiki restore error 2.png is now filed as phab:T189985. I don't know about the other screenshots. BJorsch (WMF) (talk) 14:45, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks User:This, that and the other and User:BJorsch (WMF). Rehman 04:10, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

JavaScriptWikiBrowser interface text: where is it?[edit]

There's a script called JWB.js that is a partial port of AWB to JavaScript. I've been looking over its source code, and I can't find the interface text. There are phrases included on the screen when the program runs, but a search of the source code does not reveal them. For example: "Enter list of pages:" is part of the interface, but it's nowhere in the source code. The same goes for the other text displayed in the program's various frames. None of it seems to be in the source code, or in the program's css page. It's got to be coming from somewhere. But where?     — The Transhumanist    07:09, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

@The Transhumanist: I think it loads them from User:Joeytje50/JWB.js/i18n.js -- John of Reading (talk) 07:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
There it is! Thank you.     — The Transhumanist    07:40, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Getting a bot to run of WMF servers[edit]

After a long period of sleep I wanted to reactivate my bot for Teahouse archival notification (see Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Tigraan-testbot for details) to get it run on WMF servers as a cron job. However, the documentation to getting a bot run on the servers is quite hard to decipher. If someone could give me a step-by-step guide (either here or on my TP) it would be nice. (I already have the source code I want to run, and it would probably pass BRFA easily since it is just a refactoring of the previously-approved task, but I do not have any account on the WMF servers or OAuth key or whatever else is needed to technically run the thing). TigraanClick here to contact me 20:57, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi thank you for asking. :-) This should hopefully be relatively easy. says
1. Create an LDAP account (you must have an LDAP account to access the Toolforge project)
2. Add a public SSH key (you will need this to access Toolforge servers using SSH)
3. Request access to the Toolforge project (Join us!)
4. Create a new Tool
Once you are in the system via your username, use 'become toolname' to log in under the tool's account, 'jsub script' to submit your job to the cluster queue. wikitech:Help:Toolforge/Grid#Submitting_simple_one-off_jobs_using_'jsub'.
Use #wikimedia-cloud connect to ask for help on live chat. Gryllida (talk) 02:14, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Line breaks don't appear in edit summaries without spaces in watchlists / contrib pages[edit]

This diff page shows my long edit summary wrapping so as to not run way off the end of the page. However, this permalink page shows that same edit summary running way off the end of the page, and the same occurs when viewing this edit in my watchlist or contributions page. Is this a bug (and if so, has a Phabricator report already been filed)? Has this always been the case and I just didn't notice because I don't normally use long edit summaries without spaces? Regardless, it is an issue that needs fixing. Master of Time (talk) 23:31, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

For me at the permalink the edit summary does not exceed screen width. Gryllida (talk) 02:10, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
This is how it displays for me. Master of Time (talk) 02:18, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
@Gryllida: Does the edit summary just cut off? Or does it actually display as multiple lines? Do you have a very wide monitor perhaps? Master of Time (talk) 02:18, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
Confirm with monobook, vector, not with timeless skin. Gryllida (talk) 02:30, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
The timeless skin technically just 'covers up' the right side. If I click my middle mouse in the center part of the page, it still lets me drag way off to the right. The very end of the edit summary is a lowercase v. With that being the case, every skin has the problem where the edit summary won't break into multiple lines despite not fitting on the page. Master of Time (talk) 02:40, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
No, the timeless skin wraps. It does not cut off.
It has "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXY" on the first line and "ZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEF" on the next line (and a few more lines to follow).
Add "#mw-revision-info .comment { word-wrap: break-word; display: block; }" to your common.css (Special:MyPage/common.css) to fix it, I think that's what it does. Gryllida (talk) 03:13, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
That didn't do anything, unfortunately. My edit summaries still won't wrap properly. Master of Time (talk) 03:55, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Please volunteer to document mw:Extension:Graph, update it to use Vega 3?[edit]

Hi all! mw:Extension:Graph allows to draw graphs and charts and variously sized and colored points on maps. Documentation appears to be lacking using Vega 2 library. Vega version 3.0 documentation is not very introductory level. :-) Do we have volunteers who could expand the extension documentation to include an explanation of how its features work, starting from hello world and gradually increasing complexity? And or volunteers to update the extension to Vega 3?

Specifically what interests me is the ability to create timelines spanning across several days with events with hours and minutes. I had tried this at mw:User:Gryllida/sandbox (starting from mw:Extension:Graph/Demo#Timeline_/_lifeline) but could not figure out how it should work. No error message has been produced. --Gryllida (talk) 02:08, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

To clarify, what I expect to make or use is a template that takes a set of timestamps and strings as argument and outputs a timeline, for instance,
|2018-03-01 12:04:I had lunch {{fixed}}
|2018-03-02 08:01:Someone had [[breakfast]] in a hall.}}
Would output a timeline with these times set (and 20% at each side of the earliest and latest event for readability). The annotations need to be able to contain clickable links and images. --Gryllida (talk) 03:22, 19 March 2018 (UTC)