Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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New bolding in watchlist (resurrected)[edit]

Restored from 2 August premature archive. Problem remains unresolved. At least one editor has stated that they like the change. To prevent more premature archiving, I am adding a DNAU template to prevent another archive for one year, and that can be removed when this issue is resolved. ―Mandruss  20:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Firefox 47.0.1. Less than an hour ago, my watchlist started bolding unvisited page title links, where previously there was just a subtle color difference and no bolding. I have cleared history and cache and restarted Firefox, don't know what else I could do on my end. Anyone else seeing this? ―Mandruss  21:19, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

@Mandruss: Did you recently change any of your gadget settings? Under Gadgets -> Watchlist there is a setting that will "Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold". Is that checked? If not, check it, save, uncheck, and resave, and see if it fixes it. --Majora (talk) 21:24, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Did you recently change any of your gadget settings? No, not in many moons. The option was unchecked, so I did what you suggested. No change. ―Mandruss  21:26, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm having the same phenomenon, the same version of Firefox. Nothing changed on my end. But in the last hour or two, the bolding got so bold on the unvisited ones that it's blurry. It's big and thick and very dark and blurry. Only the link title is that way, not the rest of the info on the item. My gadget on Preferences is also not checked. What happened? — Maile (talk) 21:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
It's beginning to look like it might be a Firefox problem. I saw the change around the time that Firefox said it had automatically downloaded 47.0.1, albeit before I restarted Firefox to install it. I don't understand how the download could have introduced the problem, but then I know nothing of the internals. If it's Firefox, I'd expect a 47.0.2 very soon. ―Mandruss  21:42, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I've had Firefox 47.0.1 for a couple of weeks now. By default of any other postings here, it's probably Firefox. But who knows. It's really distracting. And just confirming that I do not have this same problem in I.E. — Maile (talk) 21:48, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I assume that the bolding has something to do with the was Firefox handles CSS scripts. I'm not seeing the issue on Chrome so it is probably a problem on their side. I believe you can override it. WP:CUSTOMWATCH has instructions on how to make it bold. I'm guessing you would just replace, "font-weight: bold;" with "font-weight: normal;" --Majora (talk) 21:47, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Am seeing the same myself in Chrome, Firefox, IE and Edge. Do not have the option selected in prefs. Have tried selecting it and deselecting it. No difference. Nanonic (talk) 21:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Not seeing it in Edge or IE, no other browsers to test. ―Mandruss  21:55, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Has now stopped in both my Edge and Chrome but still in IE and FF. Odd! However when I refresh the page in Chrome, I can see it bold the 'unread' entries during page load before putting them back to normal when rendered. Nanonic (talk) 22:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I've always experienced that in Chrome. I just assumed there was some Javascript at work that took a little longer to load. clpo13(talk) 22:04, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I think I've always seen that in Firefox, but the bolding was turned off so quickly that I barely noticed it. So the hypothesis would be that whatever was turning it off is no longer working. No idea what that is, or why it would suddenly stop working. ―Mandruss  22:19, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
It's CSS. The MediaWiki software comes with bolding and no builtin option to remove the bold. The English Wikipedia removes bolding in MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css, a gadget enabled by default and saying "(This loads the base style for the watchlist. Please do not disable this option.)" Another gadget MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistChangesBold.css can then override the first gadget and make bolding again with "Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold (see customizing watchlists for more options)". For some reason the first gadget is failing. I tried a dummy edit of MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css with no effect. It works in Firefox 47.0.1 if I load it using withCSS: But it fails if I just have it enabled in gadgets and disable the bolding gadget. The English Wikipedia got mw:MediaWiki 1.28/wmf.11 three hours ago so something there may have triggered the issue. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:31, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I'm experiencing this problem as well, Firefox 47.0.1 and briefly on Chrome 52. Interestingly enough, I tried Majora's suggestion above regarding the watchlist gadget and the bolding went away, but only in Chrome. Firefox still has it. clpo13(talk) 22:04, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I also am seeing the same bolding effect, started in the last hour or two. I am using Iceweasel 24.4.0, and have not recently tweaked any of my settings there or on WP. (Just got a new pair of glasses, but surely that is not a factor.) ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:12, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Me too. Started up this afternoon. I thought perhaps I had just loaded the page funny (sometimes clearly caches and what not fixes things like this) but apparently its still happening. I haven't tweaked any of my watchlist settings, and I am not happy about the bolding, although if it helps I have noticed that only pages I haven't directly edited are being bolded on the watchlist, those pages that I have edited and still have the current for are not bolded. Not sure what that means, but I am willing to take it. For the record, I am contributing using Firefox and I am fairly certain its the most recently available one. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:26, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Incidentally, I just noticed that its also on the recent changes page for those items I have on my watchlist. Not sure how that happened, but its happened. TomStar81 (Talk) 02:56, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
The bolding is of watched pages that have been changed since you last visited them. I don't know why MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css fails as a gadget but the bolding can be removed by importing it in your common JavaScript:
importStylesheet('MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css'); // Linkback: [[MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css]]
With this, bolding will be determined by the gadget "Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold". PrimeHunter (talk) 10:33, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: Thanks for helping with this, as always. Before deciding whether to fix this locally, I would like to know the prospects for a site fix that would make that unnecessary. Is anyone looking at this? If not, is there a way to get them to, such as phab? ―Mandruss  10:51, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
My guess is it will soon be fixed but I don't know where or by whom. I only know what is written here. Many people with CSS and MediaWiki knowledge watch this page, it has only been 14 hours where many users are not active, and so far a problem is only known to exist with a locally made gadget so I wouldn't take it to phab now. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:10, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Ok. I'll wait. ―Mandruss  11:21, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
It appears that gerrit:288026 has somehow changed the loading order of modules, so the module that applies the default bolding is now loaded after gadgets rather than before. Anomie 13:14, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
A short-term workaround would be to increase the specificity of the selectors in the gadget (e.g. make it "html .mw-changeslist-line-watched .mw-title") so it's not relying on ordering to break the tie. Anomie 13:25, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I have limited CSS knowledge but I suggest you do that if you ensure MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistChangesBold.css still works for those who do want bolding and have selected it in preferences. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
This is still occuring, seems to have stalled in getting a "fix", think we need to this this enwiki local still? — xaosflux Talk 11:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: If the suggested fix looks good to you or another admin with CSS knowledge then I suggest trying it. Anomie only has one edit since the suggestion. I'm not qualified to evaluate it. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:54, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

That dreadful bolding that everyone hates!!![edit]

I see that unreadable bold text in the watchlist is back. How do I get rid of it this time? Checking/unchecking the "Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold (see customizing watchlists for more options)" box, in preferences/gadgets/watchlist, makes no difference.--Ykraps (talk) 18:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't see this bold. Where is the customize button? Millbug talk 19:09, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
See #New bolding in watchlist. There is a solution for your personal JavaScript and a suggested solution for everybody who is affected. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:14, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm afraid I don't understand much of that conversation. Do I create User:Ykraps/common.js, then copy this script, "importStylesheet('MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css'); // Linkback: [[MediaWiki:Gadget-WatchlistBase.css]]" to it, and save?--Ykraps (talk) 19:32, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Exactly. (Don't copy the nowiki part in the page source). PrimeHunter (talk) 19:35, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
That seems to have done the trick, thank you.--Ykraps (talk) 21:32, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

As as side note, I don't understand why people consider the bold "unreadable". In fact I've had the bolding enabled for a while, and it's much easier to spot changes than solely based on the color of a small dot. nyuszika7h (talk) 21:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps it's a failing eyesight, getting old thing but in vector skin the type is so blobby the characters are barely distinguishable. With other skins it's not so bad but then the normal type is too small.--Ykraps (talk) 21:32, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I use Firefox and MonoBook; I found that with IE (any skin), all characters get smudged. I believe that this smudging is something called anti-aliasing, which some consider a Good Thing. With my eyesight, it's not - I need sharp edges. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:47, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I use Firefox and the Vector skin, it looks fine to me. nyuszika7h (talk) 11:12, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I use Firefox and Safari in Vector, and it looks good. Perhaps it's a Windows problem? I use a Mac.
Not a Windows thing. I see it on Linux with Firefox. Jason Quinn (talk) 17:23, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Despite the assertion that everyone hates the bolding, I happen to like it, and I will go to some trouble to enable it at the few wikis where it's not on by default. WhatamIdoing (talk) 13:50, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing I think what everyong "hates" is that we already had a gadget option for this (Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold) that is broken, removing the ability for users to configure this as a preference. Perhaps the gadget needs to be changed to "DO NOT BOLD ....." ? — xaosflux Talk 21:57, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
I like the bolding too, because otherwise the only notice that a page is unvisited is the dim color of the tiny bullet to the left of the page name. (In fact, the bullets are so non-obvious that I never even noticed their color variations until I read about it in nyuszika7h's post above.) I don't care whether bold or non-bold is the default, as long as I have the power to choose bold if I want it. (I'm using Firefox.) — Lawrence King (talk) 20:44, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Returning noinclude category from a Lua module[edit]

I'm trying to make {{Userbox}} not categorize pages that are just transcluding userboxes in Category:Potentially illegible userboxes. It turns out simply using <noinclude> tags won't work, I need to use frame:preprocess(). Doing return frame:getParent():preprocess('<noinclude>[[Category:Test]]</noinclude>') from a function in a minimal test module works, but when I try to use that in Module:Userbox/sandbox, it doesn't work, simply doesn't categorize pages using {{Userbox/sandbox}} with illegible colors. nyuszika7h (talk) 13:20, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Nyuszika7H: This is because preprocessing works the same way no matter which frame object frame:preprocess is called from. In other words, frame:preprocess('<noinclude>[[Category:Test]]</noinclude>') and frame:getParent():preprocess('<noinclude>[[Category:Test]]</noinclude>') do exactly the same thing. This means that the noinclude tag is actually taking effect on Template:Userbox/sandbox, not userboxes transcluding it. To work around this you will need to use some different logic. Maybe filter by namespace and/or page name? — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 06:52, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
That's strange, because I specifically tested that in a minimal module on my wiki, frame:preprocess() didn't work but frame.getParent():preprocess() worked fine. I can copy the test module here if needed. nyuszika7h (talk) 13:11, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@Mr. Stradivarius: Pinging because the previous ping was typoed. nyuszika7h (talk) 13:12, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@Nyuszika7H: Thanks for the reply, and allow me to apologise - after testing it myself, I can see that I was just talking out of my hat about preprocess being the same between the frame object and the parent frame object. You are right, it does make a difference to things like <noinclude>...</noinclude> and <includeonly>...</includeonly>. It seems that the second half of my post was correct, however. So, with modules frame belongs to the module page (e.g. Module:Userbox) and frame:getParent() belongs to the page that uses #invoke (e.g. Template:Userbox). So if you use frame:preprocess('<noinclude>foo</noinclude>') then "foo" would theoretically show on the module page but on no pages that transcluded that module. (It doesn't actually display on module pages, though, because they have a special content model.) And if you use frame:getParent():preprocess('<noinclude>foo</noinclude>') then "foo" would show on the page that used #invoke (e.g. Template:Userbox) but on no pages that transclude that page. To use noinclude with pages transcluding Template:Userbox you would need to use frame:getParent():getParent():preprocess('<noinclude>foo</noinclude>'), but this is not possible, as grandparent frames cannot be accessed through Scribunto. There was some work done on exposing grandparent frames and above in gerrit:141052, but it doesn't look like it's going to be merged due to worries about people writing modules that are easily broken when page structure changes. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:44, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
@Nyuszika7H: You might be able to get this to work by loading the content of the page and seeing if it contains the text {{userbox| and adding the category if it does. But that uses an expensive parser function, seems awfully kludgy and also categorizes pages that transclude illegible userbox template in addition to their own custom userbox. Pppery 21:05, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Nyuszika7H: By the way, the traditional way of fixing this is to make userbox template authors pass in the name of their template as an argument. Then you can do something like
if args.templatename == mw.title.getCurrentTitle().prefixedText then
    -- Add a category
That breaks if someone moves the page, though, and it requires adding new arguments to all the infoboxes out there. Maybe doing this in combination with namespace and page filters would get you the best results. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Ad banners[edit]

When I close a "wiki loves monuments" ad banner, it appears to pop-up again and again, as I happen to login from separate IP addresses. (I suppose that is why I keep seeing it.) Is there not a way make it so that the banners do not repeatedly pop-up for the same user? I wonder if this is a bug that has already been logged? Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 18:36, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Biosthmors: The toggle is tracked by a cookie which is specific to the device you use. Enable the "Suppress display of CentralNotices" option in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets to get rid of the banner. - NQ (talk) 18:50, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I use the same computer but it still keeps popping up VarunFEB2003 04:14, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
I just saw the ad banner again at my home IP, and I believe this isn't the first time. And I don't want to turn off all central notices. I just think that after I close out of it once, I shouldn't ever see it again. Is it supposed to keep re-appearing after I close out of it? Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 02:49, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
According to m:Special:CentralNoticeLogs, User:Romaine is probably the best person to answer questions about why this isn't running the "impression diet" or other features that would limit how often you see it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:15, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
An impression diet would have caused the same problem, as clicking a banner away should have the same result as an impression diet: not showing again.
Banners are enabled in such way with such settings that the banner fulfils what is supposed to do. Some banners use an impression diet, as for those it is assumed that if you have not looked at it in the for example 10 page views on a wiki, you are not interested. The Wiki Loves Monuments banner is set up differently than that, because it otherwise is not possible for participants - after going out and taking photos - to find back the website with the info about how to participate, how to upload, rules, etc.
However, if you have clicked a banner away, and you access it on a wiki with the same device and same browser, you should not see the banner again. I am not completely in the tech side of it, but so far I know the banner is placing a cookie and marks that you have clicked the banner away. Then the banner should not be shown to you again. I personally have clicked the banner away and did not show again to me. So why it keeps on showing to you I do not know.
One of the possibilities can be that a cookie contains an error, that you have an adblocker that disables the cookie or that your browser deletes cookies after closing/some time. Maybe other causes can exist as well. Romaine (talk) 19:27, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Sending thanks[edit]

Clicking the "Thank" button has been taking me to a different page to confirm the thanks rather than staying on the current page and having me confirm it with either "Yes" or "No." Anyone else experiencing this? Seems to have started sometime this week. Amaury (talk | contribs) 15:13, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

That's normal. It just wants to verify that you didn't click on the "Thank" button by accident. — Maile (talk) 15:18, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
No it's a new thing. See phab:T142636 @Amaury: I'm guessing you have the "RevisionSlider" beta feature enabled and this happens only on diff pages? - NQ (talk) 15:42, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
@NQ: Yup. Only happens when viewing a specific diff. On the overall history page of an article or a page, it still works as it should. Amaury (talk | contribs) 16:03, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
I've found that it can also happen if you've gone to a diff page, and click the "thank" link before the page has finished loading (indicated by the spinny thing in the browser tab, which hasn't yet been replaced by the favicon). This is similar behaviour to some other actions that will also send you off to a different page if you try them before the page has finished loading - these include the "alerts" bell, "notices" car door, and the "unwatch" tab. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:57, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Do you use Mononbook because in Vector we have not got an unwatch tab! I like your thought of calling it a car door! VarunFEB2003 13:18, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes I use MonoBook because (a) that was the default when I created the account seven years ago; (b) it doesn't waste as much space as Vector, which spreads things out; (c) it doesn't use smudgy fonts that are difficult to read - with my eyesight, sharp-edged lettering is essential, so as far as I am concerned, Vector violates MOS:ACCESS big-time; (d) it's consistent - it doesn't use serif fonts where none are needed, like section headings. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:11, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Great well... personally I hate MonoBook but that doesn't matter as I just wanted to know which skin you are using. Thanks for your reply. (talk) (I am Varun) 07:42, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Edit filter for new users[edit]

Dear Commonists,

I'm cleaning up the Category "Maps in French" as a new user. A few times I've already got the notice, that my edits were automatically filtered, probably because of using the gadget Cat-a-Lot. So I would like to kindly ask: How many edits I must have to get out of this filtering?--Sauri-Arabier (talk) 12:01, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

@Sauri-Arabier: The domain shows this is the English Wikipedia and not Wikimedia Commons. They are at and have a help desk at commons:Commons:Help desk. Your Commons account is three days old so you are a day from commons:Commons:Autoconfirmed users. That may reduce some restrictions but I don't know the details. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:13, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
That depends upon which filter is hitting you. For example, one filter requires new editors to have >50 edits and to have an account that is at least 180 days old. If there is a filter number in the notice, then you can find the exact filter and see what its requirements are. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:31, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Styling of block quotations on mobile[edit]

On the desktop site, the styles for <blockquote>...</blockquote> reduce the text size; on the mobile site, the styles increase the text size. The increased size is problematic because space is already limited on mobile. It only becomes worse when quotations are nested. Additionally, on mobile the quotes property is set, meaning the quotation gets a pair of oversized quotation marks. This looks really silly IMO when it gets applied to the inner quotation. You can see an example at On the Jewish Question § Reference to Müntzer. On that page, I've fixed both issues using style=font-size:inherit;quotes=none and also mentioned the fix at Template:Quote/doc. I'm mentioning this here to gauge to what extent my changes are supported by consensus. Also I think it should be possible to fix this everywhere, without using style, by changing the style sheets with a rule like

blockquote blockquote {
    font-size: inherit;
    quotes: none;

Hairy Dude (talk) 15:53, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

User:Melamrawy (WMF) will know whether this issue has already been reported to the mobile team.
BTW, there are some changes for how Mobile loads pages coming; you can read more about them on the blog. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:34, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
"On the desktop site, the styles for <blockquote>...</blockquote> reduce the text size" That's only Monobook, not the Vector default... In general you shouldn't make too many assumptions about how things look in browsers, because skins and browsers differ. I think nested quotes are hard to read, no matter what defaults you configure though. In a case like this, I would go with a style that is unique to the nested quote, to distinguish it from the first level quote. (like a left border, or a simple unobtrusive background). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:55, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Save page / save changes[edit]

Another of that idiotic problems caused by The Change to The Save Page button. Now if we go and edit the today's featured article we get a edit notice or whatever you call it saying by Pressing Save Page your edits will be visible at large. But the button has changed and so should the notice. Pinging @Xaosflux, Whatamidoing (WMF), and Fram: who have been previously involved. VarunFEB2003 08:19, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

What are you talking about? The change hasn't happened yet, in wikitext or in VE, and this is a known issue discussed to death. It can easily be fixed if the software change does go ahead by editing the editnotice. Moreover there is already a thread about this above. Please keep discussioms in one place and stop the disruptive editing which you have already been warned about on your talk page. BethNaught (talk) 09:49, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
S/he's talking about the change from "save page" to "save changes" - the edit notice uses the former text, the button says the latter. Or rather, the edit notice used the former text, I've changed it to "save changes" to reflect the current text of the edit button. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:08, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
If you find any others, feel free to make an {{editprotected}} request on its talk page. Please ask them to use {{MediaWiki:Savechanges}}, to ensure that if the text of this button is ever changed, so will the edit notices. See here on how to find the edit notice for the page. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 10:24, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
{{int:Savechanges}} (documented at Help:Magic words#Other) will also show what users with other language settings see. It produces "Save changes". See for example this section with German interface. But phab:T131132, discussed at #Significant change with implication for Draft namespace & AFC, is planning to replace MediaWiki:Savechanges by MediaWiki:Publishchanges so neither method is actually ensured to keep working. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:46, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Actually, if you use {{MediaWiki:Savechanges}}, then it will be extremely simple to find these pages and update them, if/when a new MediaWiki: namespace page is created, simply use Special:WhatLinksHere/MediaWiki:Savechanges as a guide. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 04:41, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I wonder if we should be wrapping those in bdi tags (for users whose interface is displayed in a right-to-left language). What do you think? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:36, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Minus in "View history" tab (past revisions)[edit]

Can - become − in "byte-negative" revision diffs? --Obsuser (talk) 06:48, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

A diff is a page displaying the differences between two versions like [1]. I don't see a negative number there but it's possible some tool can add it. I guess you mean Wikipedia:Added or removed characters in watchlists, page histories, user contributions. Then the request is phab:T40579. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:39, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter and Obuser: I think what he is talking about is the history page, where it says -1 for example and he wants it to use the unicode minus sign character. Pppery 11:24, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
@Obsuser: Pppery 11:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter and Pppery: Yes, it is about hyphen in list of revisions for some page that should be changed to minus sign i.e. phab:T40579. Is it possible to resolve this? --Obsuser (talk) 11:29, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Only with dev work (either staff or volunteer). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Obsuser: I wrote a little script to mitigate this. This is suboptimal because

  1. It won't work on mobile;
  2. JS is required;
  3. On first paint, a hyphen-minus is seen, and then replaced with a minus sign.

Still, you might like to try it. BethNaught (talk) 21:09, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata, image captions and translation[edit]

Prior discussion: Template talk:PH wikidata

Could someone help on how to get possibility of entering a longer caption for some image? My example was d:Q1461 (Manila), particularly P18 and Montage of Manila.png. Here, "Manila Bay" cannot get linked because then ]] would get deleted from Tondo Church; so, there is probably a limit for number/size of entered characters, and if they are Cyrillic – caption room gets really small. What would be a way to get around this?

I've tried to separate captions in more qualificators of same type (caption, you can see history of d:Q1461) and then use that ugly solution, i.e. {{#invoke:Wikidata|getValue|P2096|FETCH_WIKIDATA}} to get caption entries displayed as comma separated; it didn't work, only first entry was displayed.

And is there a way to translate some property value if there is no article on other Wiki (it is not yet created and/or connected to existing Wikidata item)? Example is "Metro Manila" in P131 (same d:Q1461).--Obsuser (talk) 16:04, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Why are you asking this question on en.WP instead of Wikidata? --Izno (talk) 16:07, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
I believe that User:Obsuser is trying to make a template work here.
Many of the editors who know how to deal with complex Wikidata issues can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikidata. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:49, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Massive display error in Poland article[edit]

Can you please confirm that there's a display error at Poland, exploding the size of the article fifty times the size of a standard monitor, both vertically and horizontally, thus making both scroll bars look tiny. Judging by my past experience, the possible source of the error is any-one of the templates used in that article. – Last time I was here with similar problem, I got excellent help from you guys, @Trappist the monk and PrimeHunter: so again, thank you in advance for your help. Poeticbent talk 19:39, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

The same issue happens when I look at the article. Pppery 19:42, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
The problems comes from Template:Polish_Voivodeships. Have temporarily removed the labels that are all over the page. Tholme (talk) 20:15, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Please note, User:Tholme did not fix the actual error, but only disabled the template function. The problem still needs to be solved. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 20:32, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
I made the same scale=1 fix as at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 148#Error display in Kraków article. Fix then: [2]. Fix now: [3]. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:46, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks a million, PrimeHunter. This one next thing would probably sound ridiculous to you already, but we have the same thing happening at Warsaw article now. I don't know what's going on. Poeticbent talk 19:51, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Fixed in same way [4], this time in {{Warsaw districts}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:06, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Indents not being read properly in certain character sets[edit]

As we all know, : is supposed to indent when used as wiki markup. However, I got pinged on Commons for a Japanese language item, and I reported my findings here. I was in the MS Japanese IME, and as can be seen, the colons there were not reported as indents. I fixed it here, but I had to swap out of the IME and back to English to do it. I'd assume this is a question of the wiki software apparently not reading this character (:) as a colon when it should? MSJapan (talk) 03:35, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@MSJapan: You're correct that the wiki software doesn't recognize the full-width colon (U+FF1A) as an equivalent of the normal colon (U+003A), but that doesn't necessarily mean that it should recognise it. If there is a template whose output starts with a fullwidth colon, for example, then changing the wiki software in the way you suggest would mean that that template would produce an indent where before it had produced a character. Making this kind of breaking change would require some thought on the part of the developers. (If you want to request that this be added to the wiki software anyway, then you can create a task for it in Phabricator.) As for the Japanese IME you are using, you don't necessarily have to switch in and out of it to get a normal colon. If you use the IME in Japanese mode, type a colon, then press space to see the different choices available, then one of those choices will usually be the regular colon. Trying this on Windows 10, I only get two choices: the full-width colon first, and then the normal colon. The normal one is labeled as 半, or half-width. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 04:51, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I know, I just don't usually like the half-width switching, because it usually ends up making me have to fix something else later. :) That does answer the question, though. MSJapan (talk) 07:23, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Lampman/Spitfire Air Aerodrome[edit]

What is causing the "< Talk:Lampman" to appear in the left side of Talk:Lampman/Spitfire Air Aerodrome? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 05:37, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Never mind I figured it out. Is there a way to stop that? Other than omitting the / which is part of the name. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 05:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Not that I'm aware of. The only solution I can see is to persuade the aerodrome to change its name, so that we can rename our article about it to not be a sub-page, as they are currently incompatible with Wikipedia / MediaWiki. Face-wink.svg Murph9000 (talk) 05:50, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
There are quite a few of them. The airport may not actually use that name. It might well be that Spitfire Air Aerodrome is what they use. Somewhat like the Aklavik/Freddie Carmichael Airport. The name system comes from the source that I use to create them. Nav Canada and its publication, Canada Flight Supplement, use "community name/airport name" but sometimes "community name (something) airport". Because I'm using the book to create them I don't know what the common name is and have to wait until somebody comes along and fixes it, such as Niagara Central Dorothy Rungeling Airport (Welland/Niagara Central Dorothy Rungeling Airport) and South River-Sundridge District Airport (Sundridge/Almaguin Highlands Aerodrome). CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 06:20, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I can see how that makes sense. It shouldn't really matter that they are subpages. In technical terms (other than the breadcrumb links to parent page at the top), it would only really matter if an administrator deleted or moved the parent page with the "and subpages" option selected. Obviously, WP:COMMONNAME and other guidelines still apply, in non-technical terms. Murph9000 (talk) 06:30, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Annotation toggle[edit]

Many lists have annotations, which, while useful, may obscure the items in the list that they describe. Sometimes it is useful to look at the bare list, without annotations.

Here's a list with annotations:

  • List item 1 – Hi, how are you?
  • List item 2 – I'm an annotation.
  • List item 3 – Simple Simon met a pieman.

Here's the same list without annotations:

  • List item 1
  • List item 2
  • List item 3

What would it take to have a toggle feature to turn the display of annotations on and off?

Not hide/show as in templates (which work on a template by template basis). I'm referring to a feature that would turn off all annotations until you turn them back on.

Could it be done via gadget, or would it take a change to MediaWiki?

I look forward to your replies. The Transhumanist 06:25, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Those are not really distinct from the list item. I.e. what you are calling the annotation is not a separate element in markup terms, the emdash character is not part of the technical markup, it's just another character that is part of the list item. It would not be easy to implement either inside MediaWiki or inside JavaScript. JS would not have any distinct elements within the HTML DOM to show and hide, it would have to actually edit the contents of elements, which is considerably more involved than just hiding and showing them. To make it easy, you would really need all of them wrapped in something like a <span class="annotation">…</span> element, or similar (i.e. the articles would need to be changed to include that special new markup). Murph9000 (talk) 06:40, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000: If those items were wrapped in the special markup, how could they be toggled? Could you have a checkbox like the one for activating/deactivating WikEd? How would you go about implementing that? The Transhumanist 19:59, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@The Transhumanist: Well, the key thing there is having elements for JavaScript to target / manipulate; it removes the need for it to edit content on the fly, which is always better to be avoided when possible. With suitable classed elements present, something similar to the mw-collapsible, or the various older versions of the same thing, could be used. You could also use personal CSS to manipulate the static presentation of them. Obviously, in wiki markup terms, it would probably be best to use a template to wrap the HTML span (or there may be a more appropriate HTML5 semantic element to use, I'd need to check that, rather than generic span) around the content. Murph9000 (talk) 20:10, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000: Please provide links to documentation on mw-collapsible. Thank you for clarifying HTML DOM aspect of this potential endeavor. Now what about the toggling itself? Are there any simple javascripts you know of that toggle something on Wikipedia? Do you know of any that deal with presentation of HTML DOM elements? The Transhumanist 20:55, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@The Transhumanist: The above was meant to read "the mw-collapsible JS", so that's your modern sample JS for it. It is an official MW re-implementation of older NavFrame and collapsible JS in MediaWiki:Common.js, right here on EN-WP (not 100% certain, but I think it originated here). It might or might not be possible to leverage one of those to do the job, or they could at least provide a baseline for development of your idea. Last time I looked, {{Navbox}} was still using our local "collapsible" JS, so it's still essentially current. The NavFrame stuff should still work, but is pretty much deprecated, I believe. If it works for a given task, mw-collapsible is the more portable one (i.e. probably the better option), as it's available on all modern MW installs and does not need any local JS added. Docs at:
Murph9000 (talk) 21:58, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000: Cool, another skin peeled off the onion. Okay, in MediaWiki:Common.js is the code for collapsible tables. There it says "deprecated since MediaWiki 1.20: Use class="mw-collapsible" instead which is supported in MediaWiki core." So, what is "MediaWiki core", and where can I find it? The Transhumanist 00:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@The Transhumanist: MediaWiki core just means the MediaWiki software itself, the software that is used for all of the WMF wikis. mw:MediaWiki is the front page, mw:Manual:Collapsible elements has the docs and links to the source. Murph9000 (talk) 00:22, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000: Digging into the core source seems daunting if there is an easier way to do it. In the manual you posted above is a link to jquery.makeCollapsible, which includes this: mw:ResourceLoader/Modules#Remote toggle, which says:

If you don't want the script to put the default toggle link (whether or not with a custom label) in your element, you can make one of your own. This could reside anywhere inside or outside the collapsible element. It's relationship to the collapsible element is detected by using an ID attribute with the prefix mw-customcollapsible and a corresponding class attribute with prefix mw-customtoggle for the collapsible element and the togglelink respectively.

Would you be so kind as to translate this to English for me?
This might help:
Thank you. The Transhumanist The Transhumanist 01:53, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
P.S.: I'm concerned that if the HTML Span were wrapped in a template, the Wikipedia:Template limits would be exceeded on many lists, especially outines. Unfortunately, that page doesn't state what the limits are. -TT
That quoted paragraph seems readable enough. You can create a custom show/hide element, if you don't want the default one. Murph9000 (talk) 04:26, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000: Requiring that the custom ID and Class be created in MediaWiki:Common.css? The custom class would essentially be a copy of the existing class known as what? And the script will process the toggle when clicked if the naming scheme mentioned in the quoted paragraph above is followed for the new ID and Class? The Transhumanist 05:49, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
So, the elements might look like this, with the toggle (which would probably be located at the top of the page), followed by an annotated list entry (in the body of the list):
<span ID="mw-customcollapsible1" class="mw-customtoggle1"></span>
*[[Classical acting]]<span class="mw-customtoggle1"> – philosophy of acting that integrates the expression of the body, voice, imagination, personalizing, improvisation, external stimuli, and script analysis. It is based on the theories and systems of select classical actors and directors including [[Konstantin Stanislavski]] and [[Michel Saint-Denis]].</span>
@The Transhumanist: It would need to be something like that, yes. Each span should also have a generic class which can be used for visual styling from CSS (either site or personal CSS). I.e. <span id="whatever-toggleid" class="annotation-toggle">label</span> and <span class="annotation mw-collapsible whatever-toggleid">content</span>, or similar. However, looking at mw:ResourceLoader/Modules#jquery.makeCollapsible and testwiki:User:Krinkle/Test suite for mw-collapsible (linked from the official docs), I don't believe this can be achieved with the current mw-collapsible, as it seems to be limited to a single target due to opposite usage of the class and id (in the DOM, IDs must be unique). mw-collapsible can have many toggles controlling a single target collapsible, but not one toggle controlling many collapsibles (without a really ugly mess of classes on the toggle). It would need new JS code which could be based roughly on the existing mw-collapsible code, perhaps even as a new enhancement or extension to mw-collapsible.
Something I have to say at this point: the more I look at this, the more it seems like it's going to be an awful lot of additional markup (and effort to create and maintain that markup, either via templates or raw HTML) for fairly limited benefit. I honestly don't see there being a huge demand for this. Personally, I find it very easy to just scan this style of list by eye and separate out the two logical halves of the information, ignoring the bits I'm not bothered about at the time. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know. Do we really need this? Is there demand for this solution? Is it worth the effort to develop and maintain an bunch of new JS collapsing code (either extending mw-collapsible, or in parallel to it)? Do we have a lot of lists with readability problems, where this would be the best way to improve things?
Murph9000 (talk) 09:36, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Murph9000: Annotation toggling is a very nice outliner feature, along with level collapsing. Outlines on Wikipedia are essentially crippled (compared to an outline in an outline viewer or outliner), in part because Wikipedia lacks basic outline-oriented viewing features. Those make viewing an outline's component lists very convenient. They are nice features, and would make outlines on WP more useful and more user-friendly. And they are useful for more than mere viewing. For example, for when you need to copy and paste a bare list. One way to view outlines, in a streamlined fashion, is to have annotations off (which makes reading the outlines faster), and only toggle them on when you want to know the definition of a topic. Then you toggle it off again and continue browsing. If you come across an outline or outline section in which you don't know many of the terms, you leave the annotations on. The best form of toggle would be one that was page-independent, like a hot key or WikEd's toggle checkbox. Outlines are evolving to include annotations, and before I develop tools to speed up this process, I thought it might be a good idea to have their viewing feature in place first. Of course, outline viewing in a wiki is new as far as I can tell, and so, testing on a limited number of pages at first would be best. Then improve the concept and expand from there. The Transhumanist 10:43, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@The Transhumanist: Ok, that's interesting, and it does change things. I still don't know if we have a strong need for it, but I think it's interesting and it might well generate more interest with others. It's sounding like it possibly might be a MediaWiki extension. There might even already be extensions out there for such a thing, so I encourage you to have a browse of the MW site and see if something catches your eye. Murph9000 (talk) 11:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000: I looked over mw:Category:Extensions by category, and nothing appears to be applicable to toggling views. The Transhumanist 20:09, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
One thing that concerns me is the amount of markup that would need to done to implement this concept. If delimiters are already included in the text (en dashes and newlines), making it parsable, I don't see why we couldn't use those, instead of inserting additional "markup code", especially if we're talking about writing an extension. Adding markup to existing pages would probably be done via parsing using regex anyways; so why parse twice if we don't have to? One major benefit of not having to rely on additional wiki-markup is that the functionality could be extended to include lists (which are essentially branches of multi-page outlines), without affecting the readability of the source text, and without requiring that a multitude of editors adopt the use of extraneous markup. We also avoid the issue of template overload entirely, and of editors stripping out the markup. We just give users a magic button, which they can opt to press or not. Adding more work for editors (in the form of marking up annotations that they write) would adversely affect scalability (we have tens of thousands of lists); while letting computers do all the work helps make the outline/list navigation system scalable (it's still far from complete). About the worst thing that could happen is that if the script encountered a piece of an outline (or list) it couldn't recognize (as annotations), the annotations there simply wouldn't disappear when the toggle was activated. The Transhumanist 20:09, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes, if it was an extension doing it, the likely implementation would be some form of extended wiki markup processing. The elements absolutely do need to be in the DOM inside the browser by some means, but they don't necessarily need to be in the wiki source text if something else adds them later in the processing pipeline. Some markup editing work is there regardless, as you will find a wide variety of styles across the wiki, such as colon, minus, en dash, em dash, probably plenty of other miscellaneous UTF-8 characters like bullets, bold followed by plain, etc. It would likely need something adding to the markup anyway, to enable the extension on a per-list basis, as there will be plenty of lists where it would not be appropriate (inside Infobox, Navbox, Sidebar, generic HLISTs inside table cells, etc. spring to mind, but probably plenty of in-article lists where it would be undesirable). I don't think it would be safe, and I don't think there would be community consensus for changing all lists into dynamic outlines (i.e. enabled by default). From an WP:ACCESSIBILITY point of view, many annotated lists should probably be converted to MOS:DEFLISTs anyway, which would be the obvious HTML elements for such an extension to use. Murph9000 (talk) 20:30, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Sidebars and table entries don't have annotations, generally speaking, but those elements could be accounted for and skipped. Sounds like this whole concept can be implemented as viewing technology from any of a number of different starting points, without pre-alteration of the source data (except maybe standardizing some punctuation). Let's see... There's CSS & JS, gadget, MediaWiki (extension), grease monkey, browser add-on, and browser (built-in). Have I missed any? The Transhumanist 21:26, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Templates vs. raw markup[edit]

Split this off, as it's mostly a quick tangent that reached a quick conclusion.

Not using templates because of a theoretical issue with limits does not seem like a good plan to me. I'd want some kind of strong evidence that there was an actual problem before going to a less maintainable solution. Murph9000 (talk) 04:31, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Once the code is worked out, it shouldn't be hard to test the template limit on some sample outlines. The Transhumanist 05:49, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Lua error in Module:Coordinates[edit]

Hi! There seems to be an issue with the Module:Coordinates after I added picture and commonscat for a item in the List of Category A listed buildings in Highland. I'm not quite sure if this is a mistake on my side, but even looking at old versions of the list I still get the same error message "Lua error in Module:Coordinates at line 657: Tried to read nil global frame.". Can anyone help me fix the list? Braveheart (talk) 10:43, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Braveheart: This is a problem in Module:HS listed building; Module:Coordinates was recently modified to include the {{#coordinates:}} parser function. In Scribunto, you have to call parser functions from a frame (usually wikitext). Module:Coordinates, being called through HS listed building, treats HS listed building as the frame and this causes the error. I'm not sure how you could fix this, although you could try calling coordinates._coord of Module:Coordinates through Module:Arguments. Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
11:09, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Send the problem to Module talk:Coordinates and ask them to fix what they broke. I would fix it myself, but it's Lua. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:34, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Jc86035: Thanks for explaining the underlying issue, unfortunately I'm miles away from becoming proficient in programming modules. It also only seems to affect lists that have been changed since the last modification, so I'll refrain from editing the other lists for the time being. I'll mention it on the talk page. :-) 14:43, 20 September 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Braveheart (talkcontribs)
@Braveheart: This is also primarily my fault, because I updated the module without checking if any other modules used it. Hopefully someone better at Lua than I am can fix this quickly. (Posted message on WT:Lua as well.) Jc86035 (talk) Use {{re|Jc86035}}
to reply to me
14:50, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Jc86035: This wasn't Module:HS listed building's problem. You were referencing a variable name that wasn't in scope (for no reason, as it turns out). This was how I fixed it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:36, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Opera 9.27[edit]

Hello. It is still impossible to see formulas. Is there any progress with this bug? Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_147#New_formulas_layout phab:T137765 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Any progress on updating your browser to something that isn't obsolete, unsupportable, and a decade old? It doesn't support HTML 5, does it? I'd guess it probably can't cope with modern CSS either. It must be long past time to let go of it and use something supportable. Murph9000 (talk) 09:45, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
You expect people to fix an error in a browser from over 8 years ago? We don't even support MS IE8, and that was released a year later. Update your browser. --Izno (talk) 11:45, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
That's not very nice. The official story is more along the lines of: "You are using a very old browser used by very few people, which we do not support and for which we thus cannot guarantee a fully functioning website. Most will be working, but you should also expect some things to NOT work." A fix might be possible, but it will depend upon the time available to volunteers to invest in such a rare problem. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

ORES article quality data as a database table[edit]

One of ORES applications is determining article quality. For example, What would be the best assessment of an article in the given revision. Users in Wikiprojects use ORES data to check if articles need re-assessment. e.g. if an article is in "Start" level and now good it's enough to be a "B" article.

As part of Q4 goals, we made a dataset of article quality scores of all articles in English Wikipedia (See phab:T135684, you can find the dataset there) and we are publishing it in figshare as something you can cite (phab:T145332) also we are working on publishing monthly data for researchers to track article quality data change over time. (phab:T145655)

As a pet project of mine, I always wanted to put these data in a database. So we can query the database and get much more useful data. For example quality of articles in category 'History_of_Essex' ([5] [6]). The weighed sum is a measure of quality which is a decimal number between 0 (really stub) to 5 (a definitely featured article). We have also prediction column which is a number in this map for example if prediction is 5, it means ORES thinks it should be a featured article.

I leave more use cases to your imagination :)

I'm looking for a more permanent place to put these data, please tell me if it's useful for you.:)Ladsgroupoverleg 09:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Ladsgroup: Awesome! I'm an advocate of big data, so having this available is really useful - well done! Let us know if there is anything we can do to help out. As for a more permanent place, that table seems good enough - the labs guys might put it in a non-user table though if you ask nicely Face-smile.svg -- samtar talk or stalk 09:31, 21 September 2016 (UTC)


Could someone continue to update this template? I see updates stopped on 12 July 2016 on (and other Wikis too), and user Ace111 (whose bot Acebot used to update these variables) seems inactive now on, Meta and elsewhere.

Is it possible for other bot to continue Acebot's work on {{NUMBEROF/data}} (or, better, for bot Acebot itself to continue them as it did)?

Template {{NUMBEROF}} that uses data from {{NUMBEROF/data}} is used widely (on in articles about other Wikipedias, such as article for e.g. German Wikipedia, which is now not updated because has >1.979.765 right now and article says 1,958,190 what is the last value updated in {{NUMBEROF/data}} on 12 July) and on some very visible places on some Wikipedia projects (like Main Page), and would have to be removed if updates are not possible in the future.

That's why even some notification should be made if bot stops working, so users know. Is it possible to make such notifications in the future? --Obsuser (talk) 02:31, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Obsuser: I've look into this a bit. Ace111 has been recently active at ruwiki and is aware that his bot is not functioning. Per ru:User talk:Ace111#Acebot @meta (15 July 2016), Ace is having problems updating the bot to use https for the API. I suggest contacting him on his talk page here and/or at ruwiki. If he is unable to get the bot running again, I will look into coding a replacement. — JJMC89(T·C) 06:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
@JJMC89: OK, I've just asked Ace111 on (he's recently been more active there than on and will wait for eventual answer.
Would it be possible to have these values for NUMBEROF incorporated somehow as a magic word and instantly updated/loaded by Wikisoftware as same as for magic word NUMBEROFARTICLES, for example? This way bot would not be needed, all values would be correct 100% time, and on all Wikipedia (and other Wikimedia) projects (maybe to do this in the future if not now)... --Obsuser (talk) 06:54, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Possibly; but it would need to be a phab: request. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Acebot made a first edit for {{NUMBEROF/data}}. I installed a recent version of pywikibot and was able to update the template using https, in July had problems with it. Sorry for a large period without updates. It seems that further regular updates are possible. — Ace111 (talk) 03:03, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

WikiData item call?[edit]

I see the WikiData item in the sidebar menu, but...

How do you have a script look up the WikiData identifier for a particular Wikipedia article? The Transhumanist 05:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

If I understand the question ... you'll only get the wikidata link if the article title in wikipedia corresponds to an entry in the 'wikipedia' child table in wikidata. So, for example, Bovinae points to because en:Bovinae is found in the 'wikipedia' child table in wikidata, and points at Q4979192. Put another way, the wikipedia article title is the foreign key used to look up a Q value from wikidata via a 'wikipedia' child table. It follows from this that if the wikidata item is missing from the wikipedia page, the cause is the absence of a link to en: in wikidata and the cure is to add the wikipedia article to the appropriate wikidata item. Wikipedia:Wikidata may be helpful. --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: Thank you. By the way, how do you look up the Wikipedia child table in Wikidata? The Transhumanist 05:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Why do you want to do that? It's possible that someone has already implemented the thing you want. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 14:53, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
To achieve the technological singularity, of course.   :)   I'm trying to learn WikiData and how it can be used in conjunction with WP pages. Like automatic data storage and data retrieval. I see the "Wikidata item" link on the sidebar, but how do you access the Q value other than by clicking on that link? Like with a script. As for "things", is there a list of the things that have been implemented? And how do you access the WP child table to get the Q value? The Transhumanist 20:30, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
What seems to be being implemented are templates, such as {{Wikidata property}} which enable you to retrieve a wikipdata property based on the article name being an FK to a wikipedia article name in wikipdata. Category:Templates using data from Wikidata shows progres to date. Visit any of those and view the source to see exactly how the query is put together - such as this. Does that help? Wikipedia:Wikidata seeks to explain this and provide some links to additionally useful pages. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:52, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: That looks like a very good place to start. Thank you. By the way, what does "FK" mean?   The Transhumanist 21:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Foreign key. The value that you search for in the 'wikipedia' table in wikidata. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:44, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
"Based on the article name being an FK to a wikipedia article name in wikidata."
  • {{Wikidata property |1=P496 |2=ORCID }} →
Wikidata has a property, P496, for ORCID (see uses)
@Tagishsimon: {{Wikidata property}} appears to access a property that you specify by its identity number. But where would a script get the identity number in the first place? And how do you use a foreign key? The Transhumanist 01:39, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I chose a really poor example. That template has little or nothing to do with the question you asked. Let's try again. Take {{OL author}}. Try adding just that: {{OL author}} to the top of the Jack Kerouac page, and preview. The result is a sentence "Works by Jack Kerouac at Open Library", and the link associated with the "Works by Jack Kerouac" substring is to ... and the value OL21491A in that URL is the OL author number, stored in wikidata against the wikidata item - its Jack Kerouac item. In that record we find OL21491A in the identifiers section, against the Open Library ID property. And in this example, the foreign key that was passed to wikidata in order to retrieve the OL21491A was the title of the article on which we placed the {{OL author}}. (And in the template's source, we see mention of #property:P648, which is the wikidata property number for an Open Library ID ... so the query is saying 'if there is one, give me the P648 value, for the wikidata record which has the title of this article in its wikipedia child table'.) ((Amongst things I don't know about wikidata: does it / how does it ensure that a wikipedia article name maps to only a single wikidata record, and/or, how does a template like OL author behave if there are two wikidata records associated with the article title ... doubtless I'm eliding a whole rats-nest of complexity in this simple answer. It's a learning experience for me, too.)) --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:21, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: to answer your questions. a) it simply doesn't allow you to add Xwiki link to multiple WD entities. This is a problem sometimes to us at Wikidata,but we haven't come up with a solution. b) it may pick the best value (see d:Help:Ranking) or simply get the first one (or probably random one). Oh, didn't read the part after 'and/or' carefully. So I answered that too in 'a)' part. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 04:37, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

unsafe websites[edit]

I don't know where to report these, but I had to remove them from an article, they are multiple popup nests. [ ô senegal, un oeil sur le senegal] * [ videos au senegal] --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:29, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Kintetsubuffalo: If they aren't used on a wide scale, simply removing them works (WP:ELNO). If it's a persistent problem across many articles, see Wikipedia:Spam blacklist. – Finnusertop (talkcontribs) 10:34, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
If those links are unsafe, please do not post live links to them on any page! I put nowiki around them. Use Special:LinkSearch/* to see where the links are used (currently Senelec). As Finnusertop says, just delete any problematic links. Johnuniq (talk) 11:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
When links like that occur in citation templates, they may once have been valid sources correctly supporting article text but have since been usurped. See if you can recover an appropriate version of the source from an archive service (, etc). If you can, add |archive-url= and |archive-date= to the template and set |dead-url=unfit so that there is a historical record of the original url. |dead-url=unfit hides the original url in the citation template's rendering.
Trappist the monk (talk) 11:37, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Sensitive IP addresses follow-up[edit]

This is a followup to this VPT thread, in which I suggested using a Lua module to keep one single list of sensitive IP addresses that could be used from both templates and from JavaScript, in order to avoid us having to maintain separate lists. I believe I am just about finished writing all the code that is necessary for this to happen. Here are the various pieces:

The API can potentially be used by non-JavaScript bots and tools as well, e.g. Huggle, although it is a bit fiddly without a library like libLua to help with the process.

I'd appreciate some new eyes on the code just in case I've done anything stupid - comments and questions welcome! If everything looks ok, I'll start rolling things out. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 13:55, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Great work Mr. S! I haven't examined the code since my last edit in that area, but I'll try to have a look next week. This is the most elegant code I've seen at Wikipedia, and it's documented! Johnuniq (talk) 00:35, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Nigeria WikiProject[edit]


Hi, Nigeria is currently running a Wiki Loves Women contest. I was wondering if somebody could edit Template:WikiProject Nigeria to allow for a WLWNG importance= parameter as importance for the women group may differ to general assessment. See here for instance, we want another on the end to assess it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:03, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps Ser Amantio di Nicolao knows how to do that?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:30, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: This is normally done by making a task force for the sub-project: I've made a stab at what that might look like at Template:WikiProject Nigeria/sandbox. The category pages still need to be created, and it's a pain to move them after they have been created and populated, so now would be a good time to check that all the names are correct. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 04:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Wrong citation template[edit]

mw:Wikimedia Research/Showcase#September 2016 presents some interesting work about finding sources to support unsourced statements in Wikipedia articles. One of the things that complicated this work is the inappropriate use of {{cite web}} when {{cite news}} would be appropriate (e.g., for citations to BBC News) – almost a million instances, actually. I think it'd be easy to identify a handful of popular news sites that should normally use the {{cite news}} template. (We might even be able to get a list from this researcher.)

If we get a list of URLs, can we send a bot around to fix "cite web" uses that should be "cite news", or is this task better suited to AWB? WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:34, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Changing {{cite web}} to {{cite news}} should be a fairly straightforward task given a list of news sources and I can imagine how an AWB task might accomplish that. I suspect that editors at Wikipedia will not easily accept, much less trust, that the researcher's machine will insert valid citations into Wikipedia articles.
Trappist the monk (talk) 15:52, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Some thoughts:
  1. In the most basic of uses, and probably most common, cite web and cite news render things identically (assuming web is provided a URL):
    • Last, First (January 1, 2000). "Title". Work. 
    • Last, First (January 1, 2000). "Title". Work. 
  2. Given #1, there would need to be a strong consensus (per WP:COSMETICBOT) to change one to the other.
  3. 1/2 aside, "should be" cite news is a mis-characterization for multiple reasons
    • Some template instances citing news works may not be citing a news article--for which cite news would clearly be wrong;
    • These are not "inappropriate" uses of cite web, simply unrefined. Please consider using more precise terminology in the future.
--Izno (talk) 16:22, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Date format flexibility or error message suppression in Cite templates[edit]

More flexibility in {{cite}} templates is needed. See David Biespiel as of 18:22, 22 September 2016, which includes a reference to a two-week issue of The New Yorker, entered as:

  • {{cite magazine |title=Want to understand the jihadis? Read their poetry. |author=Robyn Creswell |author2=Bernard Haykel |magazine=The New Yorker |date=June 8 & 15, 2015 |url=}}

which displays with a spurious date error message:

The New Yorker web page says that the article appeared in the "June 8 & 15, 2015 Issue", so the date is correct. There should be a way of suppressing the error message. —Anomalocaris (talk) 18:52, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Your comments would be better directed at Help talk:CS1. --Izno (talk) 19:12, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Izno: Done, thanks! —Anomalocaris (talk) 23:29, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Image not showing up again[edit]

Whenever I upload a new image over an old one, the image no longer appears in linked pages. For instance, in the infobox here I see only the blue broken-image icon. Do other people see an image here? Any idea how to fix it one way or the other? Maury Markowitz (talk) 21:41, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

This is probably Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Images not displaying. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:53, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Nope. Twas this. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:55, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
So how come it shows correctly at the previous version? --Redrose64 (talk) 23:04, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Dunno. Probably Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Images not displaying. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
... which is what I suggested first off ... --Redrose64 (talk) 23:07, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Category:Non-indexed pages[edit]

The red-linked Category:Non-indexed pages has over 1500 pages in it. What's populating the category? wbm1058 (talk) 22:30, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

If you WP:NULLEDIT any of these, it is transferred to Category:Noindexed pages. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:51, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Oh, just realised. It's Thursday. MediaWiki roolout time, so presume a bug that's since been reverted. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:52, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Category:Noindexed pages is populated by the MediaWiki software.
Hmm, noting this 22:45, 22 September 2016 edit by PrimeHunterwbm1058 (talk) 22:54, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes, there has apparently been a software change where pages with __NOINDEX__ are automatically added to a category specified by MediaWiki:Noindex-category. The default value is "Non-indexed pages". I have created the message with "Noindexed pages" to use our existing Category:Noindexed pages. It may take a long time (months) before the already categorized pages detect this unless they are edited. MediaWiki:Noindex-category is a system message and not a transcluded template so there is no job queue to process the pages automatically after an edit to the message. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:56, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
But Category:Noindexed pages isn't new, and __NOINDEX__ has been populating it for years. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:00, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Right. I actually thought categorization had always been done by {{NOINDEX}} but I see we stopped that years ago. MediaWiki:Noindex-category is not a new message but got a new default value for unknown reasons, maybe by error. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:24, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict) This is due to gerrit:302061 (diff) by User:Zppix. I'm guessing that the effects of changing the category name weren't fully anticipated. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 23:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that should be reverted. Category:Noindexed pages (Q4989245) shows many wikis have created Category:Noindexed pages long ago. No reason to force all of them to change their category name or set the MediaWiki message. The tag is called noindex so "Noindexed pages" is a logical name even if "Non-indexed pages" may sound more like normal English. I have created Category:Non-indexed pages with a soft redirect and an explanation. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:45, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
Indeed, or what's the point of Wikipedia:Categories for discussion?
We're supposed to be able to notice such a change among the haystack of changes listed at mw:MediaWiki 1.28/wmf.20?
"Cleaned up some un needed wording in the English i18n file" adequately describes this?
It occurred to nobody that the projects should have been notified before the change, so that they could edit their MediaWiki:Noindex-category page in advance?
Why are there two sets of codes – What's the difference between git #522dcec5 and gerrit 302061? wbm1058 (talk) 00:29, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I suspect they simply didn't realize they were changing the name of a tracking category. Maybe they thought it was only a displayed text like MediaWiki:Noindex-category-desc which is displayed at Special:TrackingCategories. A Phabricator ticket would have drawn more attention and probably objections but they may have thought it was just an innocent rewording of something only meant for reading. Mistakes happen. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:50, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
OK, I'll assume good faith. Anyway, it's down to a third of its maximum size now, just over 500 members, so perhaps it won't take that long to clear. wbm1058 (talk) 01:48, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
@Wbm1058: There's a note. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
@Wbm1058: 302061 is the index number used by the Gerrit software to track the change; this counts up from 1, although when I tried I could only access gerrit:5 and later. 522dcec5 is the prefix of the SHA-1 hash that the git software uses for the commit (in this case, the full hash is 522dcec59c7a01e53eb14bd22b9906378d13685f). There's some more info about git hashes in the git-scm book if you're interested. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 02:39, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Nice explanation; thanks. Hey, the category's already cleared out! wbm1058 (talk) 03:43, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I just found this one in there, so I WP:NULLEDITed it. Maybe we should hold back on WP:CSD#C1 until we're sure that no more are stuck in transit. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:27, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Maybe there is an undocumented job queue or something similar after all. mw:Manual:Job queue doesn't mention it. Category:Pages with disallowed DISPLAYTITLE modifications is still adding old pages four months after the new tracking category was added by MediaWiki. But that's another situation where the software didn't store the pages anywhere before and wouldn't have a list to run a job queue on. Here the existing MediaWiki:Noindex-category changed value and MediaWiki would be able to process the pages in the category given by the former value. Or maybe somebody just poked something to push the updates through. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:23, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I was going to suggest using to clear the category out - maybe someone else had the same idea. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 14:31, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Open a phab task and ill fix in the morning. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 02:02, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I have created phab:T146446. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:36, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
  Bug fixed awaiting merge on Gerrit, see change 312524--Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 14:44, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Edits appearing twice in contributions pages while logged in[edit]

Edits that I made yesterday between around 8:25 and 9:38 UTC are appearing twice in my contributions page. They appeared only once in the page histories. Edits made by other users at around the same time seem to have the same problem. After I logged out, the edits appeared only once. Does anyone else see the same thing? Gulumeemee (talk) 00:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Gulumeemee looks normal to me. — xaosflux Talk 00:40, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
It becomes normal if I turn off ORES. Gulumeemee (talk) 03:38, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
This appears to be the sort of problem phab:T145356 is working on dealing with. Anomie 11:08, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Vital article stubs for Africa[edit]

Hi, I'm planning on staging Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon starting next month sometime. Is it possible somebody could create me a list of African stub class entries which are also designated a Vital article or High/top importance for Africa?♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:09, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

There's apparently already a list: Top importance, High importance. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:37, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
There's another layer of stubs missing from those - the WP Africa template allows for country-level setting of importance. Petscan is your friend, at least for Top and High. There are no Vital Stubs, and so I've given you Vital Starts --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Top-Stub - 662 articles
High-Stub - 433 articles
Vital-Start - 94 articles
Medium-Stub - 1751 articles

That's a big help, thankyou both!♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

An Easter egg[edit]

Look at the buttons

Can anyone guess how I did that (I changed nothing in .js/.css pages). I think I have stumbled upon an Easter egg! I'll tell you if you are unable to guess it! 10:34, 24 September 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by VarunFEB2003 (talkcontribs)

I can't see anything in that screenshot other than the standard edit window in MediaWiki UI format—what are we supposed to be looking at here? ‑ Iridescent 13:01, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@Iridescent: Are you unable to see the different buttons at the bottom. They aren't the real ones! VarunFEB2003 13:36, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Looks a bit Bootstrapy.. -- samtar talk or stalk 14:09, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@Samtar and Iridescent: Well I'd tell you - if you place {{Special:UserLogin}} on a page and preview it the buttons change to look like this! VarunFEB2003 14:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Special:UserLogin is one of many interface elements which have been converted to use mw:OOUI where buttons and checkboxes look like that. If you transclude Special:UserLogin then it apparently causes the edit buttons to also use OOUI. I guess it's not intentional. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:07, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Oh so there is always a techy thingy behind each amazing thing around here!!!! VarunFEB2003 17:10, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Special pages are (almost?) all dynamic (our servers build them from scratch whenever they are fetched by your browser); yet they may be transcluded. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:54, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Some of them can be transcluded. See Help:Special page#Linking and transcluding and Wikipedia:Transclusion#Special pages. If they cannot be transcluded then an attempt produces a link to the special page. That happens for {{Special:UserLogin}} but this case has the odd side effect noticed by Varun. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

How is this happening[edit]

At Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red I see a button "Join WikiProject" which on clicking bring you a popup form. What is the code for this? How is this happening. I know the button comes from {{Load WikiProject Modules}} but how do we show a form? VarunFEB2003 11:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

It uses JavaScript and requires "FormWizard: a wizard for creating and expanding project pages" is enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Special:Gadgets shows the files used by gadgets. The main code here is in MediaWiki:Gadget-formWizard-core.js. The button has the url Something there must be discovered by the gadget but I don't know the details. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:58, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
PrimeHunter Thanks VarunFEB2003 14:28, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Country subdivision templates[edit]

Hi, I've created this as a maintenance/development tool, so general navigational templates by district and region of each country can be documented and developed evenly. I began listing for the UK but an error seems to have crept in on Wales #invoke:Navbox . Is there a maximium number of templates which can be displayed on one page at one time or something? Obviously eventually sub pages would be created by region of each country but if I knew what the maximium load was I could work around that. It's a long development anyway, any is free to help.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:09, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes there is Dr. Blofeld See the image I have included -
VarunFEB2003 14:27, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Can we work out what the maximum template load is per page and then we can disperse into bite sized amounts ;-)♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Ya sure let's keep it there itself! VarunFEB2003 14:38, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Country subdivision templates is in the hidden Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. See Wikipedia:Template limits#Post-expand include size. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:54, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks VarunFEB2003 17:05, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

XTools broken[edit]

Please check tool maintainers evrything is reading out to be 0. See mines, see MusikAnimal's, see Redrose64's VarunFEB2003 14:36, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@Cyberpower678 and MusikAnimal: Pinging developers. It is showing up at times then going off again. VarunFEB2003 17:07, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
See T97153. The issue comes and goes, and we can't figure out why it happens. I suspect it's related to the replicated database and Xtools' connection to it. ~ Matthewrbowker Drop me a note 17:36, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Template-based switches conditions[edit]

I'm trying to build a metatemplate ({{identifier}} so we can streamline identifier templates such as {{doi}}. In particular, I want to have a switch that allows/disallows inputs.

{{identifier}} has this switch in it:


the goal here is that if {{{allow-free|}}} is set to yes in {{doi/sandbox}}, then that the template will allow the access-parameter to have a value of 'free'.

For example, {{doi/sandbox}} has


To my understand, when we use {{doi/sandbox|10.1234/0123456|doi-access=free}}, we should get doi:10.1234/0123456A free version of this source can be accessed here. However, as of now, I get doi:10.1234/0123456A free version of this source can be accessed here.

Help here would be appreciated. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 15:08, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

In {{#switch: string | case = result}}, the = must syntatically belong to the switch construction and in your code it doesn't. I'm not sure of the details but I think case and result must be separate complete expressions. Even if you get that working, it gives tricky template maintenance if case is not a simple constant. Can you use something like this instead:
PrimeHunter (talk) 15:58, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter and Pppery: Ah yes, that was the issue. I knew I was having a brainfart somewhere. Either way, Pppery fixed it so thanks to the both of you! Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:34, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
What's with the double hashes? The syntax is surely {{#ifeq: ... }} --Redrose64 (talk) 20:58, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Edit window background for template-protection[edit]

I just noticed that the edit window has a bright red background for template-protected pages. Is this a new thing, or has it been around for a while? I could've sworn I've at least opened a template-protected template for editing since getting the right, but I may be wrong. nyuszika7h (talk) 22:41, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Nah, it's an old thing. Everybody who can edit a template protected or fully protected page sees the red background if they edit it. That's so to make it easier for template editors and administrators to notice the protection status. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
It's pink, #FFDBDB     , the rule is
.mw-textarea-protected + .ui-resizable .ace_content,
.ns-8 textarea,
.ns-8 .ace_content {
this rule also affects the edit box of fully-protected pages. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:52, 24 September 2016 (UTC)