Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)/Archive E

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Sysop accountability?[edit]

What can be done when a sysop abuses his power/privileges (i.e. by consistantly making extremely biased and inflammatory edits and reversions to articles without showing any regard for Wikiquette or the integrity of the encyclopedia)? I believe an edit dispute with a sysop may be coming up. In the event of such a dispute, are the odds stacked against me because he's a sysop whereas I'm anonymous?

(unsigned but by User:

If someone is abusing their powers, show evidence and something will be done about it. Of course the idea that you think one "may be coming up" is highly suspicious, and the vast majority of anonymous users making these claims have been shown to have made them falsely. Regardless of what others have done, if you are truly correct, then you will prevail because others will see what is going on. From your contribution history on this IP address I am doubtful. DreamGuy 09:39, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
Hallo, are you talking about this edit by Jayjg to Eustace Mullins? Also, you will probably be taken more seriously if you get an account and log in Susvolans (pigs can fly) 09:35, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Considering that you were reverted twice by DreamGuy, and only once by me, your focus on me is bizzare. In any event, your edits are a non-factual whitewash, and I will continue to remove any non-factual material and restore factual material. Jayjg (talk) 15:02, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
My reverts came after I saw the above and checked out the changes he was making. From the looks of the article histories he's been using a variety of anon accounts, so he is no doubt referring to reverts of changes he made on other IPs as well. His agenda looks pretty clear. DreamGuy 15:08, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Portrait copy?[edit]

-- 15:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Chinese Empress Cixi (Cixi.jpg on Wikipaedia). How and from whom can I get a 300 dpi digital image of this portrait? Harry Gelber 16 August 2005 noon.

NFL Hall Of Fame Game from Canton, Ohio[edit]

Can there be a article on this? Or maybe merged into the NFL 2005 Season? --Peacearoundtheworld 14:18, 9 August 2005 (UTC) Chicago Bears 27 to Miami Dolphins 24. --Peacearoundtheworld 14:18, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

  • There's an article on Pro Football Hall of Fame Game with the results from every game each year... not entirely sure if each individual game warrants its own article, since it's nothing more than a glorified preseason game. But if you'd like to write a little blurb on it for the 2005 NFL season article, I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a paragraph on it and the HOF induction. Anthony 14:22, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Mysteriously protected junk in meta[edit]

The article "Don't be a dick" is protected in meta. Someone was muttering about a meme, but that sort of thing belongs in BJAODN. Please come and vote in Meta:Requests for deletion#Don't be a dick to have it removed. Mr. Jones 11:31, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

The previous vote ended less than a month ago. The page is protected due to a move war. --cesarb 15:49, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Billy Haughton[edit]

Someone please have a look at this article: Billy Haughton and tell me what I've done wrong! I've created the last category, but it just won't work. It exists, and it works in the preview, but it goes red once I hit "save". Eixo 09:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

As you've worked out since posting this, you need to add some text to the category page, normally a parent category, but optionally also a description of what the category should contain.-gadfium 09:24, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

southern gospel music[edit]

I am looking for a song that came out in the 1950s. It is a southern Gospel song. I am not sure about the name or the group that recorded it, but some of the words are:

I see others living in mansions so fine, Their worldly possessions much greater than mine, I'm tempted to envy the treasures they hold, and then I remember I have but one goal

I'm bound for that city that's built foursquare No more disappointment will trouble me there

It may have been by Bill Smith and the Gold something or other quartet.

Thanks, Wally Taylor Aug 18, 2005

Mike Bucci possible Mafia member[edit]

Does anyone have any information on him? --Riverofdreams 18:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Information or Advertisement?[edit]

I'm looking for some experienced editors to weigh in on a disagreement on the MATLAB page. Because I work for the company that makes MATLAB, I am not impartial and need a disinterested opinion. As discussed on Talk:MATLAB, someone insists on including information about how MATLAB compares to DADiSP . Listing major competitors to MATLAB on its page is appropriate, and the biggest ones are listed. DADiSP, however is one of dozens of small niche competitors to MATLAB. It is is already listed on the linked-to numerical analysis page, so I feel like it's covered. This seems like a small thing, but it is precedent-setting. Listing information about the dozens of numerical computing packages on the dozens of pages about them would create a mess of redundancy. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Please follow-up on Talk:MATLAB. Thanks for your help. Matthew Simoneau 00:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


In which page of a Wiki skin could I find the footer code so that I may place an advertisement at the bottom of every Wiki article?

MediaWiki:Copyright. Take also a look at Special:Allmessages for other messages. --cesarb 21:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I hope you're not talking about adding an ad on the bottom of the pages you're editing, so that others can see the ad. That would not be an acceptable edit. Zoe 23:56, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
He said "a Wiki skin", so it looks more like he has his own instalation of MediaWiki. Also, he said "Wiki article" instead of "Wikipedia article". --cesarb 00:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. Zoe 04:14, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
(Original author) Thanks, guys. I found a solution. It was inside of the skin.php file.

Spider Mosquito question. ASAP ASAP[edit]

Okay heres what I got this bug has long spider like legs daddy long legs type and body has a stinger that is curved on the end. What I'am I looking at? You science buffs out there help me. Spider Mosquito type bug??? Thank you please ASAP. --Spidermosquito 19:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC) HELLO --Spidermosquito 19:49, 16 August 2005 (UTC) ASAP

You should ask this question at the Reference desk, they're better able to help you there. Zoe 05:57, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

what happened to my suggested changes[edit]

in july, i suggested certain changes to "buchenwald" and "arbeit macht frei". The old version claimed that the latter motto was used in all german concentration camps, which was wrong. The correct version should note an exception, buchenwald, which used the motto "jedem das seine".

my user name is "HYH".

i actually visited buchenwald, and am happy to confirm my change was correct. however, i see that the changes are now reflected in the entries, but there is no history of the change.

can someone help me find out?


(unsigned, but from

If you click on the history of the Arbeit macht frei article you can see that the change was made on September 4 by TOttenville8. I don't know what changes you suggested to Buchenwald, but you could also click on its history to see what changes were made to it. I actually can't find any suggestions on the talk pages of either article corresponding to this, or from the July time period. Is it possible you made the suggestions somewhere else? Otherwise, they appear to have been lost.
Nevertheless, thank you for your concern for historical accuracy. I'm glad the record was corrected, and I hope you'll continue to participate in Wikipedia. By the way, you can sign your messages with four tildes (like this: ~~~~), if you're logged in. --DavidConrad 02:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Repeatedly getting an error message[edit]

Almost every time I attempt to edit a page which has any length to it at all, I get the following error message:

Sorry- we have a problem... The wikimedia web server didn't return any response to your request. To get information on what's going on you can visit #wikipedia. An "offsite" status page is hosted on OpenFacts.

Going back to the page I attempted to edit, in every case the edit I made has actually occurred. Why does this error message keep coming up? It's been happening every since I got back from my Wikivacation. Zoe 19:53, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

AFAIK, that's a timeout message. The web server took too long to answer, and another server (possibly the front-end proxies) displays that message. That does not mean it hasn't been saved (it first saves and then regenerates the HTML for the page). It usually happens on longer pages since they take longer to process. --cesarb 21:53, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
But why is it happening so frequently? I mean, it's almost guaranteed to occur when I edit lengthy articles, even when I'm only editing a section. Zoe 22:52, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
Hardware's falling behind demand again, probably. -- Cyrius| 07:34, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I believe it's getting worst, nearly ever second edit I make I receive the error as noted above, it's very frustrating. This has only manifested itself this past week or two, prior to that I only received these error's about one a week, I attributed those to a busy server. Now the server(s) must be overloaded! HJKeats 02:03, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it keeps happening, over and over again. Zoe 05:52, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

  • In fact, it just happened when I added the comment above. Zoe 05:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Lithuania Revert Wars, Chapter 1,654![edit]

I just saw that Zivinbudas was banned for a year for persistent immature nationalism in those revert wars -- I certainly saw plenty of that from Z and tried to moderate at times. Probably a good call. But Halibutt Halibutt is probably more often inaccurate from the Polish side (and sometimes goaded Zivinbudas), and is skillful enough at Wiki diplomacy to not have the inaccuracy or prejudice pop out the way Zivinbudas did. See Talk: Lithuania. Kind of like the athlete who starts something and then the ref catches the other guy and calls a foul. I don't have time to guard content against Halibutt's persistent edits, but they often echo what apparently is taught in Polish schools. I believe he thinks he is being accurate (he says he's a student), but as an American deeply versed in this history I can confirm he is a well-intentioned but mis-informed Polish mirror of Lithuanian Zivinbudas and they both waste a lot of pixels on one-sided POV and sometimes pure fantasy. Both sides in the revert wars (multiple offenders) repeatedly add content that is conspicuously inaccurate. To break the frustrating Lithuania revert wars it isn't enough to ban Zivinbudas, Halibutt has to be counseled as well, and watched. (Others on both sides will probably have to be warned or suspended as well to finally calm this down.) Hope this helps. Coll7 05:25, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

You are always welcome to ask for sources, explanation or dispute any of my edits. Although I have yet to see you do this. Anyway, If you believe that there is something wrong with my edits, their accuracy or NPOV, then please be so kind as to notify me on the respective talk page. If you feel the matter is too complex, move all of what you dispute to the talk page and let others decide.
As to my ban you propose - I'm slightly disappointed that you have not contacted me first. However, if you really believe that I'm a threat to wikipedia, then please be so kind as to start the proper dispute resolution process, provide evidence, diffs and links. I'll be happy (?!) to cooperate. Halibutt 05:56, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Advice about possibility of using a list[edit]

I am a Project Gutenberg volunteer who is interested in bringing the wikipedia article about that organization up to a higher standard. One problem is that the section "Other projects inspired by Project Gutenberg" seems to keep growing to where it takes up a disproportionate amount of the article. I've thought of moving these to a List of digital libraries, which could be a comparative list which information about each entry, such as languages, approximate size, etc. However, one could argue that Category:Digital libraries is a better choice for wikipedia. Suggestions? Andrew Sly 23:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Categories list their entries without annotation, so I think is not a good choice in this case. There is an existing List_of_digital_library_projects which is mostly unannotated as well and I suspect includes projects not directly inspired by Project Gutenberg. You could create a new article, perhaps Projects inspired by Project Gutenberg. This seems like an appropriate topic for Talk:Project_Gutenberg. I'd suggest you move the discussion there. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:19, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Good suggestion. Thanks. Is there anywhere else I might want to mention the topic to avoid it going unnoticed by people who might be interested? Andrew Sly 16:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I can't find any obvious place (for example, there seems to be no particularly relevant wikiproject - perhaps Wikipedia:WikiProject Media). You could mention it at the talk pages for some other articles, like Wikipedia:Library_and_Information_Science_basic_topics, and the aforementioned List_of_digital_library_projects and Category:Digital libraries. I'm not sure I'd worry about it too much. Anyone who might object to extracting content from Project Gutenberg into another article should have this article on their watch list (so they should notice anything you bring up on its talk page). -- Rick Block (talk) 18:50, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


Some anon editor is adding links to an external web site that sells images by one photographer. Result At least half a dozen half been added today. Looks like a fairly clear-cut case of link spam to me. Any admin feeling like going through the list and rolling them back? Rl 16:01, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, but I've now warned the user on their talk page(using {{spam}}). I'm going to wait until at least one other person agrees that this is linkspam before taking them out, though. JesseW 19:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I should have mentioned the reason I didn't try to contact the user on their talk page: They use several IP addresses. Another batch was done back in May over an NTL proxy [1]. Rl 20:09, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed every instance I could find. Rl 13:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
Ok. Good. Thanks! JesseW 04:22, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Adding a logo to my link[edit]

I'd like to use the Wikipedia logo in my link from my site, but everything I've tried so far doesn't work. I just get the little X in the box. -- JRC 21:00, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup Ethiopia Flag[edit]

I noticed that Flag_of_Ethiopia had a clean up tag so I've tried my best to sort it out. Feedback hints and what not appriciated dok 16:09, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Stokes County, North Carolina[edit]

Could somebody with some knowledge of North Carolina take a look at Stokes County, North Carolina and Category:Stokes County, North Carolina? A repeatedly-reverted vandal has added some suspicious looking place names and has made other edits which make all of the information in this county suspect. Zoe 04:28, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Adding Picture[edit]

I am a bit dense at this. I want to add a picture to an entry but haven't got the first clue on how to it. Any help would be great. dok 10:02, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there needs to be a page with very simplified instructions. My first advice is upload the image in the size it will be used in the article. (don't upload a large image for people to be able to see the "full version" that's not the purpose of an encyclopedia - that's an archive. fair use means you just get the gist of what an image is and you should add a link where people could see a larger version, if that's available.) Upload the file here. then you HAVE to add a copyright tag to the picture's page or the image will definately be a candidate for deletion. to add an image to a page use, for example, [[Image:widget.jpg|right|thumb|Words about widget.]] for an image that will be seen to the right of text. And, by the way, if anyone could add links here to image pages that could be "the gold standard" - images that have all the right copyright info etc. - an image that we know is done right - I would really appreciate that. As it stands, when I go to an image's page I'm not sure if it was done right or if it just hasn't been found and deleted yet... CDA 13:36, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
It's best to avoid fair use if possible at all. These images can't be used in many other Wikipedias. Most articles can be illustrated with pictures that are either in the public domain or were made by us. In those cases, it is recommended to upload a resolution that is considerably higher than what we currently use in the articles. If you can provide the picture under a free license (public domain, GFDL, Creative Commons) you may want to consider uploading to the commons (here). The only difference will be that other language WPs can use the image as well. Rl 13:46, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
RI - I think a better way to say that is don't upload "fair use images" if you don't thoroughly understand the concept. From the fair use page: "General guidance on what is or isn't likely to be fair use in Wikipedia can be accessed at Wikipedia:Fair use." And the best source I have found for the simplest explanation of public domain is at If the image is under fair use it should be small, the size used in the article. If it is public domain or your own image should you upload the largest image possible to the commons? Is that what Wikipedia wants?CDA 14:09, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Fair use is always a last resort. We can't use those pictures in other WPs (they are not even accepted on commons), we'd have to replace them for many kinds of possible uses.
As for resolutions, let me quote from the image use policy: "Upload a high-resolution version of your image whenever possible, and use the automatic thumbnailing option of the Wikipedia image markup to scale down the image. Wiki accepts photos up to 2 MB in size. Do not scale down the image yourself, as scaled-down images may be of limited use in the future." And if you go to the upload page, the text in bold reads "Uploading your files to Commons is highly recommended." Rl 15:00, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
RI - can you give specific examples of an image that would qualify, legally, as fair use but would be wrong for wikipedia because you would "have to replace them"? I don't understand. CDA 15:52, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Fair use depends on specific circumstances. So a picture may be okay to use within a specific WP article, but it will likely be beyond fair use for some other WP article or the same article on another media (e.g. DVD – didn't we want to make an English one as well?). You never know because there are no simple, clear-cut rules. Rl 16:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Incorrect attribution?[edit]

Lucas van Leyden 019.jpg

The image description claims this Jerome picture is by Albrecht Dürer (who in fact made a well-known Jerome picture). This image, however, is probably not by Durer, but by Lucas van Leyden (1521). source Can anyone confirm this (and maybe even provide a better version)? Rl 07:07, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Credit for Emily Blackwell[edit]

I hope this doesn't seem petty, but I just invested a lot of effort in creating the Emily Blackwell article (which was a wanted article on the Encarta/2004 crossover list), but when I saved it I was not logged in. I had been, but I guess it either times out or my modem had dropped carrier and I had to dial back in. The article is now credited to an IP address, and I'm only credited for a minor edit to an external link. Is it possible for an admin to modify the history so it reflects that I created the article? --DavidConrad 05:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. It used to be possible for developers (not admins) to transfer credit in this way, but that's no longer done (it created too much work, presumably as the number of editors increased). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:34, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Do you edit consistently from a single, fixed IP, and are you the only editor editing from that IP? If so, you can mention that IP on your user page and make it clear that edits from that IP are yours. Similarly, if you think it's useful, you can mention on the talk page of the article that you wrote the bulk of it, but failed to log in. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:26, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Wiki:a convergent medium?[edit]

Community Service?[edit]

I've been pretty active on wikipedia, and I'd like to count the time I've worked on the site for community service for my high school. The problem is I need someone to sign off on the community service form, and I'd need to make sure Wikipedia counts for community service. (It's a non-prof so it probably does and this isn't the biggest problem.)

I could probably fax the form to a member with administrative duties and have him or her sign it. The form also requires the person who signs to list a phone number.

Can anyone help me with this? Is there any policy as to how to count time spent? I've been reviewing my contributions and counting blocs of time that begin with one contribution and continue for as long as there is no more than a 15-minute break before the next article. When there is more than 15 minutes before or until another contribution I just count a minute for that contribution.

You can contact me at Thanks. Theshibboleth 08:07, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

First a few useful notes on this user:
  • First edit 2005-06-10
  • 387 total edits, 273 to articles, 25 to images, 140 distinct pages. [2]
  • Talk page contains no "Thanks for the good edit" notes.
Second, I have in the past related electronic log entries to hours worked by picking some round time interval and counting any clock-aligned interval that contains one or more entries. Using a one-hour interval, I have found that this correlates well with hours billed by my sub-contractors. I suggest that for Wikipedia, an interval like 5 or 10 minutes would be more appropriate.
Third, I think it would be great if working on Wikipedia could be counted as volunteer effort. May I suggest that you find someone who is especially appreciative of some article work you have done? Bovlb 15:03:34, 2005-08-24 (UTC)
Well the problem is a lot of the edits have been toward fixing grammar and POV problems, and not so much content, so these things go relatively unnoticed. I would be willing to accept a 5- or 10-minute maximum interval between entries counted in a bloc. Theshibboleth 19:41, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Dear Wikipedia[edit]

I am interested in getting CKEC through the internet, because I live in another province and my cable provider doesn't have rights to that channel. I don't have money to invest in a satelite dish, which is the only way I could get the channel on TV. Can anyone guide me with regards to how to obtain access through the internet, and which website I should visit to set it up?

Yours truly-- 19:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Reference desk. I would help you here if I could. ~~ N (t/c) 14:07, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

How does one access info showing frequency of visits to particular Wiki articles?[edit]

Please help me locate "hit" data which would show approximately how many visits to particular articles are or have been made daily, weekly, monthly, etc. Thank you. SOTO

such data is not recorded.Geni 14:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Just two days ago I saw on the Pump that someone had made a list of pages that had more than a thousand hits. I can't find it now but such data can, apparently, be retrieved. Marskell 18:30, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
A fresh, unmodified MediaWiki install does report these numbers. You can see them at the bottom of, e.g., the Toki Pona Wiki. So presumably they're still in the database. ~~ N (t/c) 14:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
The page hit counter is a feature of the mediawiki software, and is turned off at wikipedia for performance reasons (it turns every page hit into a database update, which wikipedia simply cannot afford). Apparently some counts are maintained somewhere (see User:Dcoetzee/List of Wikipedia articles with at least 1000 hits for the most recent stats), but they are not exactly generally available (may take direct database access). If you're interested in pursuing this, I'd suggest you contact user:Dcoetzee and try to find out where the data used to create this list came from. -- Rick Block (talk) 23:37, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Clean Ups and Stubs[edit]

I have tidied up the national flag pages of the Northern Mariana and Rwanda. In these cases I don't think there is any more encyclopedic content which could be added that wouldn't be pointless duplication of other sources or needless page-filling. I trust it is acceptable in these cases for me to "be bold" (to coin a phrase) and remove the clean-up tag? dok 21:38, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead. In case you are wrong, someone else will add it back later. Be bold. --cesarb 22:10, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

How do I?[edit]

I just created my own article entitled "Let's Discuss the Issues or A Message to the Termites". I then exited Wikipedia. Now when I return to Wikipedia I do not know how to retrieve my article. Please advise. narkad at cox dot net

Thank you.

Your article is at LET’S DISCUSS THE ISSUES? Or A MESSAGE TO THE TERMITES. Using almost all capital letters in the title makes it retrievable only under the exact same name (capitals and all). Someone has marked the article for deletion as well, please see Wikipedia:Guide_to_Votes_for_deletion for what this means. -- Rick Block (talk) 22:17, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Help with Non-aryans and Christian Non Aryans[edit]

These two articles have identicle text and were created by the same person. The article is actually concerned with a book, However, we are neither fish nor meat. I redirected Non-aryans to nor meat, but I don't think it's correct to redirect Non-aryans and Christian Non Aryans to that book title, since those topics are so much more involved. I'm not sure what to do with this. --Fang Aili 14:15, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it's a copyright violation (1). I've posted it to WP:CP --Fang Aili 14:22, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Editing or Adding an item to Special:Specialpages[edit]

I use Special:Specialpages quite a bit, like many or most editors, and just noticed that it was not editable. I'm not sure if that's a policy or a technical issue. Most Special Pages are not editable because they're automatically generated, but that one is a static page with selected content (I assume). Perhaps it's unwise to make it editable, but I would like to nominate a page for inclusion, which is WP:VFD/Today. Or are only pages with the prefix Special: able to be included? MCB 06:30, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

No, this is automatically generated from the list of all available Special: pages (which is determined by certain files in the MediaWiki source tree). Only Special: pages are eligible in any case. ~~ N (t/c) 15:28, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Thanks. MCB


Is there any quick way to rename a category and all the links to it on pages or do I have to make a new one, manually change all of the article links, and then post the old category on VfD? Marskell 16:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Category renaming is done via Wikipedia:Categories for deletion (used for both renames and deletions), and it is currently a manual process as you describe. In some cases, the article changes are handled by a bot (specifically, user:pearle) but, more typically, the changes are done manually by dedicated volunteers like user:Who. -- Rick Block (talk) 17:44, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
Hi thanks for the support. Specifically if you wish to have a category speedy renamed, you can use the speedy renaming section of WP:CFD, as long as it fits the criteria listed. Otherwise, it will take 7 days of proposal and discussion. You can find the instructions to proposed renaming on the template {{Cfr}}'s talk page, and on How to use this page. Who?¿? 22:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Minucius Felix[edit]

I notice that the article on M. Minucius Felix has his names in the wrong order : Felix_Marcus_Minucius. No doubt this is a typo by someone copying from the 1911 encyclopedia (i.e. Felix, Marcus Minucius).

What does one need to do to correct this?Roger Pearse 22:25, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Click on the "move" tab at the top of the page. You should see a box where you can enter the title you want to move it to. See also Wikipedia:Move. Flowerparty talk 23:29, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Link Exchange[edit]

Does Wikipedia engage in link exchange with other sites?

No, we don't. See Wikipedia:External links for when it is appropriate to link to other sites from a Wikipedia article.-gadfium 09:02, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Having two articles with the same name[edit]

I want to create the generic article "[[peace and love]]" but the name is already used for a record. What shall I do ? Create a synonyms page ??? How ??? Thanks Graphophile2 16:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Typically a disambiguation page is made, thus: Peace and love (disambiguation) . This contains redirects to the various articles. If necessary the record page could then be moved to, say Peace and love (album), and the original page used for the main topic. At the top of the page there can be a message that points to the disambiguation page, which then links to the album. — RJH 18:49, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I made it into a disambiguation page, since there are at least two records with that title. I don't know what you intended to include in this article? The topic seems to be covered at flower child, and elsewhere. Flowerparty talk 23:46, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Then aren't you supposed to check "what links here" at the originally created page - and then go to each one and change the internal link to the new page? What if there are 400 linked-to pages on the "what links here" page? CDA 16:48, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
    • I thought I'd done that, I must have forgotten about it half way through. Now fixed. Flowerparty talk 17:25, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Footnote question[edit]

Do we have (or can someone build) a mechanism like {{ref}}/{{note}} that allows multiple references to be associated with a single note? I'd like to use it at List of entertainers known to have performed in blackface. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:58, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

There is a manually numbered footnote system(based on {{ref}}), described at Wikipedia:Footnote4- the only big problem is that backlinks don't work, since there are multiple possible targets. Hope that helps... JesseW 04:38, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:28, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Merge Hospitals Lists?[edit]

There are two redundant hospital lists Category:Lists of hospitals in the United States and Category:Hospitals in the United States. The statewide categories they lead to are also mostly incomplete duplicates of each other . Should we get rid of one?

Most of the other members of Category:Hospitals by nationality seem to redirect to Category:Lists of hospitals so I guess its not such a problem there... Jarwulf 20:16, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Soundtrack: Brother Sun, Sister Moon[edit]

Hi there. I am wondering if you can help me. I'm looking for the soundtrack of Brother Sun, Sister Moon. I know the DVD / VHS is available but I am wanting the soundtrack for the film. I know Donovan was involved in creating the soundtrack but I cannot find it anywhere.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Benji Euvrard

According to this, it's available through iTunes. I have not verified this statement. Zoe 22:30, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

About Viruses Again[edit]

--User Talk: Felix Frederick Bruyns I am sorry if I seem impatient, but it's getting late where I live so could someone please answer me at my user talk. Thank you very much.


--User Talk: Felix Frederick Bruyns Is there any evidence that there were viruses on Wikipedia as of September 1 (U.S. Pacific Time)? Please answer. Thank you very much.

No, Wikipedia's engine (MediaWiki doesn't allow javascript or executable code to be inserted onto its pages. Unless you copied some code manually from a Wikipedia page you didn't get a virus from here. Seeing your mention elsewhere that your A drive is failing makes me suspect that this is a coincidental hardware failure and not a virus at all.-gadfium 06:06, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Copied Article[edit]

Hi, newbie here so hope I'm asking this in the right place.

While writing A2 road (Northern Ireland) I came across an article on Dunluce Castle which appears to be an exact copy of this [3]

What is the procedure here? Does the article need to be deleted completely?

Stú 10:39, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi and welcome. Thank you for pointing out that instance of copyright violation. I have placed the article through our standard procedure which will close when the article is completely deleted. Whenever you spot a "copyvio" tag the entry by placing this code {{copyvio|url=insert site}} plus your signature. A copyvio box will appear, the box offers a link to the current day's collection of copyvio entries. Click the link. Once there add the entry you just tagged to the long list. Thanks. lots of issues | leave me a message 11:30, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Wiki Main Page[edit]

I'm building another wiki somewhere on the net.

I would like to modularize the Main Page much like Wikipedia does. My goal is to have the main page proper be static, but it shows views of other pages that are being edited. The views can change from day to day. Basically, I have not been able to decrypt how the template for Today's Featured article works. Or more generally, how do I make a template for the main page that just echoes a real page elsewhere in the wiki?

Bill 02:10, 1 Sep 2005

If you're using mediawiki, use {{name of page here}}. --fvw* 02:13, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
No, that only creates an empty template named after the page with the content I want. It doesn't put the content in the place of the template. Bill 06:36, 1 Sep 2005
Then you've either not yet created the page at name of page here yet, mistyped, or you're not using mediawiki. --fvw* 06:40, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Or you're trying to transclude something from the main namespace, in which case you need a colon, like so: {{:name of page here}} —Cryptic (talk) 06:46, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Of course, I'd forgotten about that, silly me. Apologies for the misinformation. --fvw* 06:52, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Yep, that is working just fine! Thanks for the help!! Bill 07:23, 1 Sep 2005

Desparately slogging through copyright tags[edit]

I've been given permission to use some photos. But I am having a devil's time trying to figure out what tag applies. Is there someone around who can assist? The learning curve is killing me. Thanks. Paul Klenk 05:15, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


nfortunately, permission alone isn't always good enough. In general, the images would need to be released under the GFDL or a compatible licence (e.g. public domain). For example, use of images under permission for non-commercial or educational use only is expressly forbidden; see Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ. Permission for use specifically in Wikipedia will not be good enough for downstream users of our content. Perhaps this explains why you are having such a hard time finding an appropriate tag. I hope this helps. IANAL. TINLA. Bovlb 06:24:24, 2005-08-31 (UTC)

Thanks, B. What about albums, magazines, ect.? How do I tag them?
Well, assuming that you're claiming fair use, probably {{Albumcover}} and {{Magazinecover}}. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use and please also consult Wikipedia:Image description page#Fair use rationale. Cheers, Bovlb 07:01:41, 2005-08-31 (UTC)

Bovlb, thanks for your continued attention. I'll keep posting questions -- just answer what you want but if I tire you out not to worry.

Q. When writing to someone to get permission, I would like to do it in this way:

1. Ask for the permission for the image to be release under GFDL.

2. Insert a quick paragraph, defining what GFDL is, like this:

The license was designed for manuals, textbooks, and other reference and instructional materials. However, it can be used for any text-based work, regardless of subject matter. It stipulates that any copy of the material, even if modified, carry the same license. Those copies may be sold but, if produced in quantity, have to be made available in a format which facilitates further editing.

3. Then provide a link that lets them read about it in its entirety.

If they respond with a yes, is that enough? Paul Klenk

Well, basically yes, but you might find it helpful to look at Wikipedia:Boilerplate request for permission. Don't forget to document the permission on the image page. Bovlb 07:23:26, 2005-08-31 (UTC)
Thanks, Bovlb. You've been very helpful. Paul Klenk 10:50, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Request for assistance with term paper.[edit]

I am an undergraduate at Griffith Uni, Queensland. Australia. The term paper I have been asked to produce is 'Describe a website that shows convergence in media'. I have chosen Wikipedia itself as my example. Here is a rough draft of my submission

Derek, I am going to make some comments about this. I have sent you an e-mail asking you to come back and look at this page. I suggest you log in and register if you haven't already, then click on the tab above that says "watch". After you do that, you can monitor changes to this page by clicking on the "my watchlist" link above and see if new edits have been made. I'm sure you know you can also edit this page; just remember to sign your remarks with four tildes 'Paul Klenk 06:45, 31 August 2005 (UTC)'.
I visited Oz two summers as a musician, when I was a teenager years ago. You've got a lovely country.
First, let me say that there are lots of "About" pages here that may answer many of your questions about WP. I suggest you read as many as you can; just start browsing. Second, I'll insert some comments into your text, give you my opinion, and see if others have something to day. They may disagree with or correct me as well.
Your paper is about "convergence of media." Define it, describe what that is and what it isn't, and tell how in what way you think WP is a converge. (I think I know what it means, but I need to know if you know, or perhaps if your definition is different.)

Paul Klenk 06:45, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

<starts> As well as convergence in the visual modes of technology, the best media are the ones who have converged in time too. It is not merely a matter of use, but of premier use that is a defining factor. Consider the examples google and wikipedia. Each has become institutionalised in commercial and cultural transactions (if not yet legal, inter alia). Each has the gravitas associated with authoritative and quick results. Google is the first point of reference to any ‘what’ question. Wikipedia then provides the context to its mazy habitat.

You seem to sugguest that WP and Google have converged. Does that jibe with your professor's definition? Paul Klenk

Google is simpler in that it relies on the power of its indexing but Wikipedia is where you come for a stroll in Knowledge Park. Both the veracity of its contents and the wide-ranging subject matter give it credibility. McLuhan mentions ruefully at the start of his ‘Understanding Media’ that his editor complained to him that ‘75% of your material is new, a successful book cannot venture to be more than 10% new”. One could argue that McLuhan isn’t trying hard enough but a more plausible reason for the editor’s concern is that each idea needs to sit in a gap vacated by the previous idea.

The convergence of web & encyclopaedia in Wiki,

Now I see how you're defining convergence. I get it. Paul Klenk

the name deriving from surfing,

I'm not sure that the name comes from "surfing", exactly. Paul Klenk

is authority that is not clamped on. It is both audacious in its trust of its audience to respect the furniture while having the option to change and build at any moment, and also its ability to repair quickly when vandalised. It is stunningly up-to-date as it is a 24 by 7 educated community bound by rules that are usually accepted and flagged where not. In other words, does not shy away from controversy when the facts and truth sit uneasily aligned. Its biggest flaw is that same trust, which makes it susceptible to mindless virus due to the ease of change acceptance. Nonetheless Wiki shouldn’t be afraid of that challenge. In short it shows convergence in space (web imitating encyclopaedia without the update-unfriendly CD Rom) and time (the speed to get basic information is only determined by your Internet Service Provider).


My questions to the Wikipedia trustees (and any other interested members of the community are: Does Wikipedia see itself as a convergent medium? If so, why?

Confirm your definition and I'll give you my opinion. (But I'm not trustee, just a guy.) Paul Klenk

What do you think the website's greatest strength is?

Easy to use, easy to update, easy to fix, a lot of eyes, mostly solid information, and well-established and updated protocols for addressing problems. Paul Klenk

What is the greatest threat?

Vandals, political correctness, and timidity in addressing them both. Paul Klenk

Do you agree Wiki is a 24 by 7 community ?

Yes. Paul Klenk

Clearly change does not worry Wiki, does extinction?

Define what you mean. Paul Klenk

Does Wikipedia turn a profit?

Wish I knew, I'd buy shares. Paul Klenk
No. It is run by the nonprofit Wikimedia Foundation. All resources are donated. ~~ N (t/c) 14:10, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Would love any feedback to my submission or these questions either posted here or to my email address at posted: 12.50pm (AEST) 31 Aug 2005

valid request for deletion of Israel vandalized by wikipedia 'editors'[edit]

the first time i proposed it i made a mistake in the protocol, the second time i got the protocol right but it was still spuriously deleted by Gadfium and Sjakkalle. even my comments regarding deletion of Israel were deleted by Gadfium.

I think that these spurious changes by the two editors are violations of wikipedia protocol and as such, they should have their editing privileges revoked or curtailed.

as per wikipedia protocols, even as an anonymous user i have the right to nominate pages for deletion. I have indicated my reasons for deletion of the page in the proper places (even though they have been deleted by Gadfium and Sjakkalle). In short? they are that Israel has violated international law and the laws of the United Nations (the body that granted it soveriegnity) and as such it is no longer a soveriegn nation. It should be considered being voted upon just as validly as if i made a page that stated data for the United S tates of the World as ruled by Carrot Top that was in violation of numerous international laws, covenants and the u.n. charter itself.

If nothing else, my request should be voted upon according to Wikipedia protocols and not subject to change by spurious whims of editors who are too paranoid to even allow my comments on the talk pages about this subject remain in place.

thank you,

You need a valid argument under Wikipedia policy to put something up for a vote for deletion. You don't have one. Your personal claims of violations of international law are simply not proper deletion rationale, and as such your actions are the equivalent of vandalism. See WP:POINT. DreamGuy 08:23, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. We report things as it is. Israel exists. It has a flag, government and what not. Please do not nominate an article for deletion based on your personal feelings. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:04, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
By the same logic will be you being placing Soviet Union on VFD? Evil MonkeyHello 02:07, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I'll be putting George W. Bush up for deletion if they do. Alphax τεχ 08:19, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Dear (if that is indeed your real number),
Since when does the U.N. establish sovereignty? What, do you go pick up a license there, fill it out and whatnot? Sorry lot they are, bunch of Jew haters. Breaking international law? Sez you. I don't answer to an international court, neither do you, neither does Israel.
Thank your lucky stars there are enough timid and g

ullible people here that you even get the time of day. Paul Klenk 11:36, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Template producing date[edit]

I'm trying to create a template that includes the line "this template was added on <date>". Is it possible to create a template that, when subst'ed, produces the current date at the moment the substing happens? I'm not talking about {{CURRENTDATE}}, because that produces the current date at the time you look at it. Radiant_>|< 10:45, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

You could include {{subst:CURRENTDATE}}, then save again immediately afterwards. Other than that, I don't know. [[smoddy]] 15:04, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm afraid that won't work - it will be subst'ed into the template, and will produce the date when the template was saved. Radiant_>|< 15:07, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
Not if you use <includeonly>. Well, that should be the case. Good luck! [[smoddy]] 15:20, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Tried it. "includeonly subst:CURRENTDATE /includeonly" (with appropriate brackets) does in fact subst the currentdate into the template when I save it, and then makes that current date invisible except when the template is included :( Radiant_>|< 15:37, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
Probably not quite what you're looking for, but I think making the date an input parameter to the template and subst'ing it like {{subst:template|{{CURRENTDATE}}}} would work. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:14, August 30, 2005 (UTC)


Two topics I'm surprised not to find[edit]

I tried asking this at Talk:Sign, but it's a couple of weeks and I have no answer, so I thought I'd try here. Two topics I'm surprised I can't find an article for; I would have expected an appropriate link from Sign (which is a disambiguation page) but no such luck, and I can't guess what they would be named.

Do we have an article about:

  • Signage on retail establishments indicating the name of the business, etc.? I would think the history of these and how they vary from country to country would be a fascinating topic: how it interacts with literacy, use of multiple languages, etc.
  • Marquees on movie theaters announcing what is playing. A similarly interesting possible article; marquee is about something else entirely. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:56, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Hate to rain on your parade, but a movie theatre is a retail, storefront business. One topic -- but a good notice. Surprises me, too. I guess the topic is so overwhelmingly a part of most human lives that we hardly notice it any longer.
There's Neon sign, which doesn't seem to be linked from the dab, either. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'd be willing to partner with someone who is, and supply technical support and perhaps some photography. — Xiongtalk* 04:52, 2005 August 23 (UTC)
Can anyone suggest a title for this missing article? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:55, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Signage? Zoe 07:02, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
I've put a stub at Commercial signage. Thanks to all who made comments and suggestions. (I still think theatre marquees and especially their integration into the design of cinemas merits an article of its own, but I'm not ready to start it.) -- Jmabel | Talk 05:39, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Wiki:a convergent medium?[edit]

Copyrighted image?[edit]

I would like to upload this image: [4]. Its a 1703 image of Bombay. There's a copyright notice on the page, but can such an old image be copyrighted? PS I've seen the Madras image on a postcard some years back. User:Nichalp/sg 15:00, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Images that old are in the public domain. In the United States, where Wikimedia servers are located, case law has unambiguously determined that photographs and scans of public domain two-dimensional artwork do not receive new copyrights (as they don't add artistic value, which is required for copyright status). Regardless of that site's claims, that image is clearly public domain and can be used here. That'd be a PD-old tag when you go to upload it. DreamGuy 16:23, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. :) User:Nichalp/sg 17:17, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Search Problem (Bug?)[edit]

Ey there!

I've been trying to use the search function (versus the Go function), but it will not work, stating:

"Wikipedia search is disabled for performance reasons. You can search via Google or Yahoo! in the meantime."

This frequently pops up. Sometimes it works, but often I get k-nada.

Ideas? Is this a network/server problem on Wiki's end, or something else? I've tried three different browsers and no-go.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

User 5326572635X1

This happens when the server is overloaded. Cutting back on searches allows editing and reading of articles to go on as usual. Usually the Google search works pretty well. -Aranel ("Sarah") 02:13, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Sarah!

List of national capitals edit check[edit]

Could someone please review this edit: [5] in the article List of national capitals? It was made by an IP whose next several edits were blatant vandalism. I don't know enough about the subject to call this one, though. Joyous (talk) 16:36, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

I have fixed the Israeli entries, as I assume these were not in the spirit of the article. dok 04:47, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

how do i upload a picture for my bio?[edit]

i noticed that i have a bio in the adult male porn section, i was wondering if i could upload a picture of myself to the bio? i noticed other guys have pics and i thought 'nice touch' and would like to have my pic there as well. not so much for sake of vanity, but i am considered an icon of the gay movement in the 1970 and into the early 1980's. while i admit i just happened to be there when the wheel went around, my image and the media that promoted my image and the likeness of my image made for an interesting decade. BLUEBOY INTRODUCES ROGER and the numerous films i appeared in have for better or worse cemented my in the world of gay porn. so, if u can tell me how to upload, that would be great. and i have already donated to the fundraising effort.

You just need to make sure that any photo of yourself is free under our copyright agreement (see Wikipedia:Copyrights) and then you just press the Upload file button to your left and you can browse your computer for the image, SqueakBox 15:53, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Human Rights Servey on Wikipedia (The final post of I_sterbinski)[edit]

Dear all,
Wikipedia was recently a subject of intensive research of an huge international human right organization. A team of people from different nationalities and ages were acting on Wikipedia for 20 days, investigating previously noted anomalities of Wikipedia free editing and forming a final report, which (between the others similar reports) will later be a guide to all future moves of the organization concerning Wikipedia. Acting under an account of a real person, their privacy is to be held private. Therefore, very few private information will be revealed.
Also, this is a result of the lack of final possition of the organization concerning Wikipedia and human rights, which was still not formed.
The team's final post on Wikipedia, where they explain their actions can be found on the following addresses:
The team would like to thank to all the persons who took part in the correspondence with us.
We also want to appologise for keeping our identity secret for a longer period.
Best regards,
Aleksandar, Biljana, Asparuh, Christos, Valjon, Michael and Ana Luiza
I sterbinski 00:54, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a variation of the old "I really, honestly do have a team of very important people behind me who support my views 100% so you should do what I say or else" spiel. DreamGuy 01:34, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Along with the classic, "I made those grammatical mistakes on perpose." -Willmcw 01:46, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

George Henry Andrews: True story???[edit]

Does anybody know anything about the history of Liberia? This (new) article here is a bit strange. It was first written under the name of "Heroes of Liberia" . I moved it to where it is now and wikified it. But the whole story sounds like a summary of a book and I can't find any information anywhere... I was tempted, but still a bit reluctant putting a {{dispute}} template on the article... -- MarioR 23:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I marked it {{verify}} which isn't as harsh. This topic may just be the sort of thing that isn't normally covered on the net and is thus hard to verify, but on the other hand you never can be too sure. I wouldn't put it past some Nigerian scammer to put up a fake article with information to try to back up claims in a 401 email, for example, not that this article would be a real good fit for that. DreamGuy 01:38, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Peugeot article doesn't work in my browser.[edit]

The article "Peugeot" does not work for me in Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106CO.
Instead of opening the article it brings up a file open dialog. All other pages I have tried
work fine using the same computer and browser.

I can open the Peugeot page on the same computer using Mozilla Firefox 1.0.4.


Copyright violation[edit]

I believe Roger Bootle (which I moved from Roger bootle before I noticed) is a copyright violation because it copies [6] I know the procedure is to blank it out and replace it with a copyright notice, but that's too bold for me as I'm not a lawyer or anything and I might be missing something. Art LaPella 02:26, September 13, 2005 (UTC)

  • Done. Thanks for letting us know. Bovlb 05:18:15, 2005-09-13 (UTC)

index.php suddenly stops showing[edit]

Has anyone experienced that on their version of mediawiki, the index.php file suddenly stops appearing? My wiki is - for no reason I know of - coming up blank. I look over its code, and I don't see anything missing. If you of this problem, could you drop me a line: drfabulous at gmail dot com.

Thanks Jeff-- 18:40, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

revert of old vandalism[edit]

Most vandalism gets reverted in a few minutes, but some remain unnoticed for months. I recently reverted a 4-month old vandalism in Angelina Jolie. I once remember reverting a 1-year old vandalism. I was wondering if there is a meta page which has got entries of vandalisms which are found very late. I could add this entry there. Jay 15:14, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Concerns over articles[edit]

I'd love to edit Wikipedia regularly, but don't have the time, save minor edits. If I come across an article which I think needs looking at, is there anyway of flaging this up? I'm talking about obscure articles, so the talk page is no good, and specifically the article is unlikely to be come across by other users. Grayum 10:59, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Help with renominating an article for deletion[edit]

I am trying to renominate an article for deletion. I have a concern over the previous vote on Mind Pollution (see User_talk:JIP#Mind_Pollution_and_Sin_Star_votes for details). Unfortunately, the Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mind_Pollution page already exists from the prior vote. I am not sure how to handle this. --DavidConrad 18:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Never mind, I just edited the old vote page and saw the comment text there that tells me exactly what to do. --DavidConrad 18:25, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Convert ram to ogg[edit]

I'm trying to upload some traditional samples for music of Nigeria. I've managed to find two on the web, but they're in RealPlayer (.ram) format. I have Mac OSX and usually use iTunes but also have Audacity, which is what I use to make excerpts for Wikipedia. Audacity apparently can't do ram files though. Any suggestions? Tuf-Kat 02:05, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

Transcluding a categorized page.[edit]

Is there anyway to decategorize a page? This might be difficult to consisely explain without letter variables, so:

If page [[P1]] contains [[Category:C1]],
If page [[P2]] contains {{:P1}} [plus some additional text] [[Category:C2]]

Is there any way for [[P2]] to only be a member of [[Category:C2]] but not a member of [[Category:C1]]?

~~~~ 20:52, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
If page [[P1]] contains <noinclude> [[Category:C1]] </noinclude> , then P1 but not P2 should be a member of C1. See m:Help:Template#Noinclude_and_includeonly. As far as I know, there's nothing you can put in C2 to actively "undo" the transcluded categorization. -- Rick Block (talk) 01:12, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Reply assistance needed[edit]

Someone has just asked me this:

I'm very flattered and will change the licence but, just for my information, why is the current licence (cc-by-non-commercial) a problem for Wikipedia?

I need a short reply phrase drafted. How do I put the concept of why nc is not needed, and explain WP's goals @ the same time & invite the person to sign up? User:Nichalp/sg 12:23, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
Ok got help on IRC. User:Nichalp/sg 13:37, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

Moving Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Mexico to the Portal namespace[edit]

I finished building this Portal today following the "simple" instructions on Wikipedia:Wikiportals. If I try to move the page to Portal:Mexico it becomes a mess, could someone please move it there?--Fito 23:11, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

I fixed it myself.--Fito 00:15, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

Misnamed images[edit]

Some pics are misnamed like this Media:Radial Piston Engine 8b03590r.jpg that shows a Radial engine or this one Media:Lotus79.jpg that shows a Lotus 77. I don't know how to fix it. Any suggestion ? Ericd 18:33, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

The only way to rename images is to re-upload them. —Cryptic (talk) 20:40, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedians in UK[edit]

I have created a sub category of UK Wikipedians - ie those from Northamptonshire (see bottom of my user page - but it is sitting in the ether on its own - how do I make it a sub category of Wikepedians in England? Thanks :) The curate's egg 07:40, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

You make a subcategory by putting it into another category, satisfyingly enough. I took the liberty of basically copy+pasting from Category:Wikipedians in Yorkshire. See the results: Category:Wikipedians in Northamptonshire. Flowerparty 08:05, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the help :) The curate's egg 09:44, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Anon/New user voting[edit]

Hi, I seem to recall that anons and new users are discounted from votes. How new is "New" for the purpose though? - SoM 20:15, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

It varies. Every admin has his/her own personal criteria. Mine is usually "created after the voting began", with some exceptions. --cesarb 20:19, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I do pretty much the same, although I sometimes include the vote of a user that uses proper reasoning based in wikipolicies. - Mgm|(talk) 11:39, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

you have ten accounts[edit]

Our school is beginning a Wikipedia project and after ten students signed on through our server a message appeared saying there were ten accounts and we could have no more. How can this be fixed?

This is a choke designed to prevent vandals and spammers from creating many accounts at once. I believe you will be able to create more accounts tomorrow. You will also be able to create more accounts using a different IP address (say from students' homes). I don't know if it's possible to disable this behaviour selectively. Bovlb 19:33:06, 2005-09-06 (UTC)

downloading itsy bitsy (comparatively) parts of wikipedia[edit]

I have found wikipedia very, very helpful in giving me overviews of information that comes up in my university class lectures. Traditionally, I have jotted a few notes and then after class checked wikipedia articles when I get home for further explanation, but I would like to be able to do this in class with my laptop (no wifi access in classrooms here). One solution that I thought up was to download pages about individual court-cases, scientific concepts, historic figures, authors, etc for the material that will be covered in class, and spider approximately 3 links deep to get all information I might not anticipate needing (but often find quite helpful)... However, I haven't found any way to do this yet... I can save every page individually, but this is tedius and way too time consuming. I've also tried using download tool httrack, but it gives me "forbidden" errors on wikipedia (works on most every other site, though). I've aleady checked Wikipedia:Database_download, but there was nothing useful for my purposes there. Any help/ideas?

Wikipedia:Copyright problems backlog[edit]

There is currently a backlog at the above page and experienced editors are requested to help. Feel free to ask for directions on how to help on the talk page. Steve block talk 22:15, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

You guys need money, your 5 year anniversary is coming up, sell a complete cd/dvd rom version of wikipedia for 20.00 a disc and you'll pay your bills for years. charge more? and people will pass it up.... of course... if it takes two dvds? 40.00 ain't a big deal. is it.[edit]

longest village pump handle ever. freeze it on the day of the fifth anniversary at the same time wikipedia opened its servers.

Why would anyone pay for something they can get free? Soo 16:38, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Because if they had it on CD, they would download it and start editing it. paul klenk 17:11, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
because if it was on cd... you could put it on your laptop... drop it on a non-internet capable system.... have it available for local reference... have it for vanity points... use it when dial-up isn't available (lots of folks still have dial-up)... have it available for reference in the library or the library computer system... etc. Doc Martian 22:45, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Because they're stupid? Other CD-based encyclopedias are still selling, and a Wikipedia compilation on CD would be just as good as many of those. On the other hand, we'd have to worry about things like accidently capturing vandalism on the snapshot we make for the CD. Selling someone a CD with dozens of autofellatio pictures splattered over random articles is probably rather worse than having them on Wikipedia. Aquillion 00:17, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
A version of the German Wikipedia is on sale here for €9.90. We have long had an ambition of pushing towards a stable version of Wikipedia that can be distributed on CD-ROM, paper etc. I don't know the details behind the de.wikipedia disc, but see Wikipedia:Pushing to 1.0. There is ultimately a need for offline versions. --Kwekubo 00:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

How Do I Change The Name of Articles?[edit]

I wrote three articles today. Two of them I misnamed in this way. Having read conventional encyclopedias, I presumed that the basic title of a biographical article was supposed to start with the last name "Jefferson, Mildred Faye", but now I find that if someone were to search for the person's name as "Mildred Fay Jefferson", they wouldn't find it, and I can't figure out how to change the actual article names. The third article was somehow fixed in this respect by someone else. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you very much. Felix Frederick Bruyns 03:40, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

You'll laugh when you hear this, sometimes things are so obvious you miss them. At the top of every pag, next to the "watch" button is a "move" button. Click it, designate the new name, and provide a summary for why you changed it. This will move it to the new location and put a redirect in place at the old location. Dmcdevit·t 03:45, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
It's a new account (only five days), he might not have that enabled yet. If you do not have the "move" tab, ask on Wikipedia:Requested moves. --cesarb 03:48, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I had not even thought of that. In which case, you wouldn't laugh, you might just be kind of annoyed. Dmcdevit·t 03:50, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Page does not exist[edit]

I just created the Jan Moor-Jankowski article. It shows up in my list of contributions, but when I go to the page, it says the page does not exist. What's going on? Zoe 23:23, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

I see it. Try clearing cache? Dmcdevit·t 23:25, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
I did that. Twice. But now it's finally showing up when I click on the link above. Zoe 23:28, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • Really? It works for me. Can you see it when you log out? Have you typed in the title correctly? - Mgm|(talk) 11:33, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Main page - alternate index[edit]

Hi. I would like the following feature in the Corsican wikipeida. There are two main varieties of Corsican language and I would like the main page to reflect this diversity. How can I have the index on the main page changing from one day to another. More accurately: what is the wiki code in order to obtain: one day, the northern index: Template:Indice, and the following day, the southern index: Template:Indice taravesu , and so on... Best, Img

question about Wikipedia:Sandbox[edit]

The sandbox header says that the sandbox is reset automatically per 12 hours. However, the sandbox history shows no server script clearing the sandbox. When the reset is due, is the data removed from the most recent version, as if the most recent editor blanked the sandbox?

Thanks in advance. --Ixfd64 04:08, 2005 September 2 (UTC)

Edit: I'm not talking about User:Sandbot. --Ixfd64 04:30, 2005 September 2 (UTC)

But it is all about User:Sandbot. The automatic reset is in fact done by User:Sandbot, not by a server script. --cesarb 16:37, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
  • And if Sandbot hasn't been clearing the sandbox, User:AllyUnion still hasn't managed to update his bot code, or to actually start running it. - Mgm|(talk) 11:30, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Technical babysteps[edit]

The more technical side of Wiki is still making my head hurt (tables and templates enter the world of programming about which I know nothing). I think my recently added Lancashire railway station articles (I have created Leyland railway station, Euxton Balshaw Lane railway station and Chorley railway station) but would not know how to create tables with more than 2 rows or in need of more colours, so if I cry for help on these or other additions can someone try and help me out? Wiki is great but the technical side of things makes me whimper in the face of long strings of text.. =/ dok 09:21, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

There's an example at Lancaster_railway_station. Does this help? -- Rick Block (talk) 02:38, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree. Trying to work with tables is a major pain. My eyes tend to blur when I get to an article with a big table in it, and I wind up making requests on the Talk page since I cannot figure out how to edit the table. Zoe 21:10, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

I'm a big believer in cargo culting table formatting from other articles. I actually find infobox templates to be more confusing than tables, because you have to look up the tags (I wish infoboxes would just ignore nonexistent tags, instead of displaying {{tag}}. But that's me. Nandesuka 14:11, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Dred Scott v. Sandford[edit]

Somebody made some bad edits. I don't know how to fix it, so I will be happy if someone do it. 17:04, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Ray Nagin[edit]

Ray Nagin is the mayor of Nawlins, and is as controversial as you'd expect. An edit war is brewing, over (or partly over) whether a chunk of critical material should be included. There are allegations of vandalism. Rather obviously, the critical material or something like it should be included somewhere (at least if it is marked "It has been claimed that" or similar); is this the best place? I could spend a happy (?) hour boning up on Nawlins news and what coverage is in which article, but have to leave my computer soon. Could one or two people who are knowledgable, energetic or both take a look at the article? -- Hoary 07:23, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikitext coding problem[edit]

On my own wiki, I have a template on a page using the info below. The Armaments part is the problem. For some reason, the first * won't translate into a bullet point. What am I doing wrong? Thanks. Jediarchives11 22:11, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

{{Ship Class Infobox| Image=[[Image:Y-4_Transport.jpg]]| Name=Y-4 "Raptor" Transport| Class=[[Transport]]| Affiliation=[[Warlord Zsinj]], civilian| Manufacturer=[[Incom Corporation]]| Size=30 meters long| Armaments=*2 fire-linked laser cannons *1 concussion missile launcher (recessed, 6 missiles) *1 double laser cannon| Starfighters=None| Crew=3| Cargo=Unknown| Speed=Unknown| Hyperdrive=Class 2}}

The asterisk has to be the first character on the line to be interpreted by mediaWiki. Otherwise, every occurence of an asterisk would play havoc with formatting. Try inserting a newline before the asterisk.-gadfium 05:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I have tried the ways below and it still doesn't work. I don't know but maybe seeing the code in context will help. It's at this site.
*2 fire-linked lasercannons
blank line
*2 fire-linked lasercannons
In the template, add a newline before {{{Armaments}}} to also get the first "*" on a new line. -- Rick Block (talk) 19:21, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
Brilliant, thanks. Jediarchives11 02:46, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Help width some word[edit]

Dear colegues, I was add some word, but I do not know, if this allright in English. If this possible, can you help me? Its a word, it needs control if there is gramar is OK. Thanks a lot for you helping. Brouzdej 20:59, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I've cleaned it up and fixed the language. I did not understand all of what yo wrote, so please look through the article to see that it is accurate. Cheers, gkhan 04:34, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Dear Gkhan, I am too much thanks you for your improving motto. It is OK, perfect work. Thanks a lot. Brouzdej 23:26, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Rip it up, start again[edit]

Big favour - could someone delete an article for me? Since 2001, I have collecting information on Constituencies in United Kingdom General Election, and thought my current confidence in Wiki meant I could create a page on that subject using the info I have. Big disaster - I am still really unsure about tables and have done something a bit newbie with the one I found. It's also proving hard to maintain the page the way I wanted.

I have a sneaking suspicion this could be a big Wiki no-no, and apologise for any problems this has caused. In brief, I wanted to create a page on this subject, tried to do it, found I was a little too inexperienced, and feel it's best if it is deleted. Apologies again, I'll go back to scouting around looking for edits and leave the technical stuff (like tables) to more experienced people =/ doktorb 14:43, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Doktorbuk: Wikipedia articles are not supposed to be individual projects. If you can't do this yourself, ask for help. Or just say, "Here it is. I'm quitting. Someone take over." Or, if you really think the article should not exist at all, why not just make it a redirect to "United Kingdom general elections", which is something you do not need an admin to help you with. — Nowhither 23:24, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


I've just come accross this article, and I'm completely at a loss as to what to do with it. Its partly written like a text book partly encyclopaedic, starts with a lengthy example, and the ending bit makes little sense in places and is self referential in at least one place (referring to deleted revisions in the page history). Its marked as a stub but its not that. I am unsure whether to put it up for deletion, mark it as a transwiki (although quite whether it would fit at wikisource or wikibooks I don't know). Oh and the title is in CamelCase, but the talk page imlpies that there is a difference between Organic Poetry and OrganicPoetry. Thryduulf 20:59, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

philosophy "{"[edit]

Some articles are showing up in Category:Philosophy (which we are trying to clean up), under the alpha heading of "{". We believe that this has to do with Template:Integral theory3. I have looked at the code of the templates and remove the category stuff. Any ideas why these are showing up in Category:Philosophy? --goethean 22:22, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Categorizations done via templates take effect only when the article using the template is changed. In cases like this where categorization done by a template is changed (either added or removed), the change can be made visible in the articles including the template by making a "null" change to the articles (edit, then save without making any changes and without providing an edit summary). I did that with the two articles in Category:Philosophy under "{". -- Rick Block (talk) 15:24, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Edit conflicts[edit]

The way edit conflicts work has been changed. There is no longer a "Cancel" link, but instead the difference between what you tried to add and the conflict are shown in red, and there is an "edit" link to re-edit the page. I guess this is a good thing, but what happens if my edit conflict is to a section of an enormous page? Am I going to be required to edit the entire page, or will the new edit conflict process only bring up the section I'm editing? User:Zoe|(talk) 21:42, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I just found the answer to my question. If you are editing a section, and encounter an edit conflict on that section, you don't have a cancel link to cancel your edit. If you click "Edit" on the Edit Conflict page, however, it gives you an edit of the first section on the page, and not on the edit you encountered the edit conflict on. This needs to be fixed. User:Zoe|(talk) 06:46, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

This is more likely to be fixed if you note it on Bugzilla:. Thryduulf 12:41, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
I did, thanks.  :) Brion wants a screen print, but I have to wait till the next time I get an edit conflict.  :) User:Zoe|(talk) 19:33, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

can't get any user script to work (monobook.js)[edit]

I'm not sure whether I should post this under Technical or Assistance, but here goes:

Recently, I "installed" godmode-light.js into my monobook.js page. However, after changing my skin to MonoBook and refreshing my cache, nothing happened. At first, I thought that the script was somehow incompatible with my browser. However, I added a simple test script alert('test') that should have given me a "test" message, and nothing happened.

Now, I'm thinking that there is something wrong on my part, but I don't know what. Any help will be greatly appreciated. --Ixfd64 01:47, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

  • His code linked to the script rather than including it. I changed it to include the file he linked to and will now inform him on his talk page. - Mgm|(talk) 11:14, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Admin to fix Template:WikipediaSister[edit]

Hi. Could an admin please fix the Wikisource link and slogan on Template:WikipediaSister?! As explained on the talk page there:

  • "s:" is now the new link to English Wikisource (like "b:" to Wikibooks or "q:" to Wikiquote). The current link that appears in this template (and on the Main Page leads to a dead redirect.
  • The new slogan for Wikisource is The Free Library (like The Free Encyclopedia, and much more attractive and meaningful than "Free source documents." This can be seen at the Wikisource's new Main Page portal.

No one seems to have responded to the request on the template's talk page, so I'm trying here. Thanks!Dovi 14:34, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Done. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:09, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

How to resolve a duplicate article situation[edit]

I'm looking for a bit of advice/assistance from other admins here. Princess Victoria, Princess Royal and Victoria Adelaide of the United Kingdom exist as duplicate articles. Both of them appear to have existed for quite some time and have a lengthy history. Both of them have been moved, at various times, by various users, and no consensus seems to have been achieved (or seriously sought) on the best title. Being well aware that one or two people are just waiting to catch me out, I wonder what others think is the best way to resolve the situation, ie. how best to achieve a compromise in terms of history before we start talking/voting about where the article should be on the relevant talk page. Deb 20:15, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

In case of both having a remarkable edit history, a technically-savvy admin should merge the two articles with their edit histories - and it should be merged to the older article. However, in this case the article which now is located at Princess Victoria, Princess Royal seems to be a relatively recent cut-and-paste product, without a really lengthy and substantial edit history of its own. The edits to that article between the cut-and-paste beginning and today seem relatively trivial. This is question whether they are worth saving or not. IF they also are worth saving, they should be technically merged to the older article, as I said for starters. If not worth, that newer article will simply be changed to a redirect. In both cases, work will continue at the article which currently is located at Victoria Adelaide of the United Kingdom. 08:23, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I have adopted this suggestion and the article is now at Victoria, Princess Royal and Empress Frederick, which was the most linked-to of the former titles. Deb 21:54, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

The new name of the article is quite horrible. A hybrid of TWO monarchical titularies which were not originally used as combined, and besides too much titularies should be strictly forbidden from names of articles. Better to return the article to its previous location which at least is a disambiguate one and no hybrid - then, a poll for renaming (RM) would be appropriate, if any desires to move it. 22:09, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Default edit box[edit]

Isn't there an option to have a page display the edit box automatically without my having to click on edit? Jaberwocky6669 19:43, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

"Tone not appropriate?" Help, please...[edit]

Anyone -

Trying to determine how to edit my entry so as not to see the "tone inappropriate" warning at the top. Firstly, how do I determine what's wrong w/ the tone and what would be acceptable? Next, how, exactly, do I go about editing the content? Thirdly, is it possible to contact anyone at Wikipedia by phone or is this, Village Pump, etc. the only ways?

I'd very much appreciate assistance w/ this.

Thank you.


Editors of Wikipedia are, like yourself, all volunteers, and not huddled in some towering office block somewhere. Posting here is appropriate. Also you could post on the talk page of the article you've been trying to edit, and ask why your tone is inappropriate. Remember that we are editing an encylopaedia, and the style of our writing should compare to a good encyclopaedic standard. Wikipedia help has a lot of articles that you might be interested in reading. --Gareth Hughes 20:57, 26 September 2005 (UTC)


Hi, I'm not sure about discussing articles- with the Winnington article, it says I can discuss the article being merged, and the only way I could do that was by editing the discussions page- is this the correct way of doing this? Oakesy

Yes—just edit the discussion page and explain why you think the article should or should not be merged. See Wikipedia:Talk page for the full explanation. —Charles P. (Mirv) 05:56, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Copyright Tagging Question[edit]

For the image Image:Interstate 95 and 276.png, am I correct in interpreting the copyright statement [7] posted on that page from the NJ department of transportation?--michael180 15:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

  • The way I interpret it is that one may view, copy or distribute department information found here, but this information may not necessarily be public domain and instead may be copyrighted material. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 23:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


Need someone to explain how to post pictures on an article. -MegamanZero

See Wikipedia:Uploading images. If the image has already been uploaded, then the code to put an image with filename (say) "abcd.jpg" on a page is
Typically, you want a clickable thumbnail with a caption. Use something like
[[Image:abcd.jpg|thumb|A picture of a 4-armed, yellow-bellied Abcd]]
Nowhither 00:52, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Have I been blocked?[edit]

doktorb 18:27, 22 September 2005 (UTC) I can't seem to edit a page - have I been blocked?

Edit - The page says ""18:13, 22 September 2005, Ixfd64 blocked (expires 18:13, 23 September 2005) (contribs) (vandalism; was warned earlier) ""

I have never been warned about vandalism, nor have had any discussions with the user Ixfd64.

Could someone please assist - I am trying to edit my own article!!

Thanks doktorb 18:32, 22 September 2005 (UTC) / Liam P

  • Well, that IP does have a history of vandalism. [8] However, I have unblocked it for now, as it seemed that it belonged to a shared computer. --Ixfd64 18:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Looking at that example, I am convinced that the culprit is someone else. I spend too long assisting around here - I would not dare ruin an article for cheap laughs. Thanks for the swift reply doktorb 19:54, 22 September 2005 (UTC)


Hi, I recently filed a request for comment against the user Garywbush. A contributor complaiend that I had not included 'diffs'? I have searched around Wikipedia but am not entirely sure what they are? Robdurbar 20:46, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

If you click on a "page history" link, you'll see the edit history for that page. It includes a number of links labeled "last". Each of those links corresponds to a specific set of changes to the page, usually referred to as a "diff". What is being requested is that you provide links to the changes that show the actions you're referring to in the RfC. --Carnildo 21:10, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks - so what I'm being asked to provide is a link to the 'snapshots' of each page after the user in question made the relevant edits? Robdurbar 21:19, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Close, but not quite right. Here is both a link to a snapshot of a page and a link to a diff, and you can see that they are not the same. —AlanBarrett 10:03, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


In simple terms, is Butane heavier than air? If a leak occurs say on a boat, does it disapate into the air or fall into the bilge of the craft?

email removed

  • In simple terms, the relative density of gases can be deduced from their molecular weights. Butane is C4H10, which makes the molecular weight about 4*12+10*1=58. Air is primarily nitrogen, or N2, which is 2*14=28. So butane is about twice as dense. This is from memory, and I haven't studied chemistry since 1986, so someone should check my work. Bovlb 20:21, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • You're correct. ~~ N (t/c) 23:36, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Yup. — Nowhither 01:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[edit]

Hi, I'm the bureaucrat on Recently we have had a bit of vandalism (it's a rare thing for us minority languages!) but it looks like the moron(s) has/have migrated some sicilian articles on, namely Sicily and Sicilian language. Could I ask that one or two sysops keep an eye on these and ban the dickhead the next time he comes around (it's usually a he). I imagine it's some frustrated italian xenophobe with a massive chip on his shoulder and a very misplaced air of superiority (obviously). Thank you. --pippudoz - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 08:53, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

how to post definitions?[edit]

Hello, i was looking for a explanation of Hot Cell and after i found out what a hot cell was i created an article.

I've read the recommendation that artictles shouldn't just be one sentence definitions, is there a place for short definitions somewhere then?

I don't want to pad the article just to get it across the line


mathew 05:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Yes, there is. or Dictionary sister project. - Mgm|(talk) 12:10, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • But the article would be encyclopedic if it discussed the specific technology of hot cell, prominent events (e.g. invention, accidents), people (e.g. inventor) and organisations (e.g. users, vendors) related to them, and their efficacy, risks, and alternatives. Bovlb 21:08, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Zscout370#Photos[edit]

This user has been deleting images willy-nilly, including some of mine that I am happy for WP to be using. This user appears to think he has a personal mandate from Jimbo to do this, and is acting accordingly. Now there may be some new image deletion policy that I have not been made aware of, but this strikes me as wrong. A simple word of courtesy to me would have allowed me to tag the images appropriately (which were uploaded >2 years ago, when image tag templates didn't exist). The images are not breaching any copyvio. Unfortunately this user seems to think his approach and attitude are perfectly acceptable, despite it having seriously pisssed me off, and having been warned by several other users about the same thing. This is building up to a big deal. I am considering quitting WP altogether, his attitude has angered me so much. I have been here a number of years and while I admit my contributions may not amount to much, they surely count for something. So for this upstart to start throwing his weight around in this manner is quite unacceptable, and is in breach of several wikipedia policies (though clearly for him the copyvio policy appears to override everything else). This needs someone to check out and mediate or something. Unfortunately it's no longer clear to me that the process is simple and straightforward - in fact much of what used to be simple has become impenetrably complex lately. In addition, ordinary contributors like me are starting to feel seriously disenfranchised - if there has been a change in image policy, why were we not told, at the very least. I suppose some consultation is too much to ask. So, if this is the wrong place for this request then I apologise, but perhaps someone could review the discussion on his talk page and either get involved or direct me to a more appropriate place to take my complaint. If nothing is done, this will be my last contribution to WP altogether. Graham 01:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

There is a new policy of WP:CSD. The problem is that we have been tagging and moaning at people to get this sorted out for the best part of a year. While you appear to have been unfortunet enough to have missed this I have a hard time beliving this is common. Since pretty much everything else has failed it would appear that jimbo has decided to go for shock tactics.Geni 02:08, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I find it hard to accept that such shock tactics have been properly thought through. They are having the following consequences: a) pissing people off, to the point where they (me) are angry enough to leave b) damaging articles, c) removing images which are perfectly acceptable, but for whatever reason have not been tagged yet with the appropriate tag and d) making a lot of unnecessary extra work. I can't accept that the image tagging is enough of a big deal to make these other consequences a necessary side effect. I have uploaded images which I am happy to give to wikipedia. These images were uploaded when there were no standard tag templates, but have not been brought to my attention. It does NOT follow that deletion is the only appropriate course of action. A word on my talk page and I will tag the images. Why is that so difficult? However the issue I have with this user is not just this, it is also his attitude in assuming that he must carry out Jimbo's orders without question. That alarms me for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with the image issue per se. If these are the sort of people that are going to be running around wikipedia treating the ordinary contributors like the worthless citizens of some police state then no, thankyou. I'm sure, having read a lot of Jimbo's own philosophies about WP that this is the last thing he'd want going on in his name. Graham 02:25, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
sooner or latter we were going to have to clean out that catigory and belive me it was always going to be messy. The fact that you never got a comment on your talk page is odd sice whoever put that tag there should have told you (ok in at least some cases User:Ellmist did). Yes in an ideal world we would have gone thorugh and had one last try at contacting authors but we don't have enough admins/caretaker minded editors to make that practical within a reasonable time frame.Geni 02:39, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Yet enough to actually implement the instant deletion policy I see. Funny how there are always more hands willing to do dirty work than good work, isn't it? By the way, there is a possibly easier way to handle this. If there was some way to simply bundle all images from a specific contributor into one category, then ask that user to go through and check them ALL, then this might get results. The problem at present is that all unsourced images are in one huge category, so there are too many to go through. They are all from different contributors so there is no single responsible person. Of course it's too much work!! But arrange them by contributor and suddenly the problem becomes quite straightforward - there is a single person responsible for checking them, and the number will most likely be manageable. It will also be obvious where there are sets of images that can be speedily deleted (the contributor is anonymous or has no contribution history) and where a softer touch is needed. Where can I take this suggestion? Graham 02:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I'd suggest reposting this suggestion to user talk:Jimbo Wales. I'm relatively certain user:Beland would be happy to write a script that would create the sorted list. Please do this soon (like now). I'll put something on WP:AN immediately about this as well. BTW - please don't leave over this. There are many more good folks here than not. Most of the admins deal with incredibly obnoxious people on a regular basis (and I'm not implying you're in this category) and sometimes either lose patience or are having a bad day or whatever (which is not meant as an excuse in this case, but more as a potential explanation). Image deletion isn't reversible (unlike article deletion), so the deleted images will have to be re-uploaded. If you don't have personal copies, they can almost certainly be found on one of wikipedia's mirrors. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:06, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
When I am going through non tagged images and see that a lot of them are by one user, I just goto their individual logs so I can find all of them to tag. This usually works out pretty well, that way I only have to notify them once about a group of images. See uploads log for me. To give you an idea. Who?¿? 03:33, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
The point is at least some admins aren't making any effort to do this user by user but are just going through the verboten categories and effectively deleting random images (at Jimbo's suggestion). This is, IMO not unsurprisingly, pissing people off. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:37, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Ahh, yea that's not a good thing. I notify all the users first and don't post them for deletion until after 7 days. Admins should really follow up on the user who u/l the image. However, I have seen cases where the user just ignores all requests for sources and continues to u/l non-sourced images, but that's a special case. Who?¿? 03:50, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

My question is "What's the rush?". It's not like Wikipedia is getting sued. In my opinion doing this right is the key. Yes, making the images a CSD will speed the process up but it doesn't mean we should spend an hour deleting images non-stop without removing them from affected articles or notifying the uploader. Just because we could delete them without notice doesn't mean we have to. If the user is still active, drop them a line. If it's some redlinked guide who hasn't shown since 2003 then delete it. Consolidating the list by user name is similar to what is done at commons and it seems to work quite well. Broken S 19:23, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've posted some sample lists:

I also have a list of uncategorized images, sorted by author, but it's 2.4MB, and I thought I should check and see if these things are useful before posting it. And also ask if I should do the rest of the non-free categories, based on Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags#Tags_for_depreciated_images.

There are some limitations to what I did. The data about which images are in what categories comes from the latest database dump, which as far as I know makes this current only as of 9 September 2005. To establish identity of the uploader, I just downloaded the latest SQL dump of the image table, which was posted on 19 September 2005. Either a few thousand images were deleted in between there, or I've made a significant mistake. (I did throw together these scripts in something of a hurry.) I just assumed the "img_user_test" field in the SQL table was the uploader of the latest version; I hope that's correct.

If my calculations are correct, there are about 70,000 uncategorized images with about 17,000 different uploaders. Wikipedia will probably lose some good contributions (if not good contributors) unless it gives these uploaders the opportunity to identify sources. For images that are actually being used to illustrate articles, it would also be nice if we tried at least once to ask the copyright holders to free-license their works. It's likely we could enlarge the space of free imagery quite a bit, just by asking.

Given the volume of messages that need to be left on user talk pages, I think it would be a good idea to write a bot to automate the process. Then an admin could come by 7 days later to review the image and refile or delete as appropriate. A bot would also have the benefit of having current data to work with. -- Beland 04:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Article and History Download/Dump[edit]

I'm trying to do analysis of the evolution of one article and I'm trying to figure out a good way to get a dump of the article and all previous revisions. I would like to get each revision of the article in its own text file. For example, if the article has 500 edits, I need 500 text files, each containing the full contents of the article at that particular point in time. (article_name.20050832.23h14m.txt, or similar) Any ideas about how I could export data in that way?

I would use Special:Export, which exports the whole history as one XML document, then do some simple parsing. ~~ N (t/c) 16:46, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I've tried Special:Export, but regardless of the value of the checkbox to export current revision or whole history all I can get is the current revision. Is there any way to get the the entire contents of each revision on an article?

that is strange.... Well, then, you just have to download the entire friggin database then. It doesn't include the most recent editions, but all editions to all articles up to September 24. gkhan 03:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Create article[edit]

Any idea of what to do with this article? Apparently there are no articles on Louisville's neighborhoods... -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 22:24, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Deleted. ~~ N (t/c) 22:27, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 22:45, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Thomas The Tank Engine[edit]

Some-one has been posting characters in the Railway Series section, which are not from the Railway Series but from the magazines. I know this sounds daft but can some-one tell him that you put information where its supposed to go and not where they think. I suspect I know who it is though as he's done this on websites about the topic where he added his own characters.

Mafew 17:59, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Serenity (film)[edit]

Could someone take a look at the above article? The user took some bits out and moved them, but I don't know enough about the topic to correct it. Thanks,--TheDoctor10 (talk|email) 07:31, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

User:PM Poon[edit]

I'm fairly new to Wikipedia, so sorry if this is a FAQ, but is there anywhere to go to get help with problem editors? After I corrected the English of User:PM Poon, and explained some of his mistakes, he's been pestering me, moving very quickly to long and insulting message on my Talk page. I could just ignore him, but looking at User talk:PM Poon this is something that he thrives on, and he's not likely to give up soon. Selfishly I'd just like him to stop bothering me, but I think that he's likely to be a more widespread pest (his Talk page certainly suggests that), so more publicly-spiritedly, is there any way to get him to behave better? --Phronima 21:29, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Dr Zebra[edit]

An article that I watch (John Adams) recently picked up an external link to a website at Dr Zebra. Somehow I can't consider the site authoritative, even if it us an interesting hobby for someone. The link comes from an anonymous user, see Contributions for Other editors have removed some of his text edits, mostly insertions into President articles. Alexis lists the website as very low traffic, and there's no ownersip statement. Alexis also shows 44 links from other websites, with Wikipedia as first and Yahoo indices as second. My first reaction is to revert all these insertions (there are now about 20). I'll do that in a day or two, but thought to ask for a second opinion. Reply here or my talk page, thanks, Lou I 16:13, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Inter language wikipedia[edit]

Whilst I have found assorted pages on how the technical aspects of the various wiki languages work and how to cross link etc, I have not found a community page describing the hows and whys of them. In particular, I am interested in adding a article on a German town to the English wikipedia. The best source of info is the German wikipedia. I can translate and paraphrase some of that article. What about the templates it uses? What about the images it uses? Should I put a language link from german to english? From english to german? etc/usw. -- SGBailey 21:21, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, the differences between a normal article and a translated article are very small, that's probably why there are no community pages about this.
  • templates are likely completely different between languages. They might have other names, slighty other meaning or might not exist at all. The best here would be if you would take an existing article about a German town in the english encyclopedia and copy most of that stuff from there.
  • The images are all in one big namespace for all languages. You should just leave the image name and it should appear again in the other language
  • For links between languages, look at Wikipedia:Interlanguage links. Generally, you add the tag de:Bonn to the english wikipedia and en:Bonn to the german one and interlanguage links will appear to the left of the wikipedia article. It has been agreed on that those links are added at the end of the article.
Well, that's all. Cheers! :-) Peter S. 12:06, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
I think Wikipedia:Translation into English may answer some of your questions. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 13:17, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
  • If you want to use images from the German Wikipedia. You need to reupload them into the Image: namespace here under an English name and link it to the article. (Wikipedia:Picture tutorial). The English Wikipedia can't link to images from the German one. - Mgm|(talk) 21:43, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
    • It would be better to upload the image to the Commons: so it can be used by all Wikipedias. You can then use it in the same way as local images by typing [[Image:Image name.jpg]] for example. Angela. 22:40, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Difficult case with Aladin and Alkhemi[edit]

Hi everybody. I've joined wp in May and made about 350 sensible edits so far. Now I've ran into the two pages Aladin and Alkhemi that seemed like vanity pages, written by the subject itself, full of promotional language. The poster seemed to have been clever enough to frequently change his alias, which can be seen by comparing the history of those articles and the history of all the submitters (which are mostly empty). Now I'm looking at a barrage of not-so-sensible edits and the article just seems to go down the drain. What can one do when one is faced with a determined person trying to get his article into wikipedia using multiple aliases? (And please, I'd like to only see comments from helpful regulars here, not just another alias of the one who created those two articles). Thank you very much. Peter S. 08:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

  • If something contains promotional language, try cleaning up the language while retaining the relevant content. aladin's press clippings from his site suggest he's a well-known British magician repeatedly covered by the press. I don't know him, but I may know someone who does. I'll shoot off an email to be sure. Maybe someone could try to dig up the press clippings he mentions to verify it all? - Mgm|(talk) 21:40, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Azerbaijani chess players[edit]

Could somebody cleanup the entries in the Category:Azerbaijani chess players. There are a lot of IP user talk pages inside. These are resulting by a Regular disclaimer on vandal warning on these pages. The Category link is missing the : inside. Some examples: User talk: User talk: User talk: User talk: But there are about 30 more. thanks a lot -- 18:01, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Done. Evil MonkeyHello 22:42, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

UseMod-style commenting[edit]

USer:ZL1VMF left his comment on Wikipedia: How to log in (instead of on it's talk page), and I'd like to know what should be done when this happens again.

Forgot to sign the edit.--Kakurady 02:17, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Just move the comment to the talk page. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:46, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Help dealing with conspiracy-theorist-dominated article[edit]

I've found an article, Skull & Bones, which is such a disaster in terms of implausible, uncited, and likely unverifiable claims, that I'm afraid I will be swamped by conspiracy theorists if I try to fix it. Is there a WikiProject or other place to request help dealing with such things? -- SCZenz 23:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

The two places that come to mind are Wikipedia:Cleanup Taskforce (a WikiProject) and Wikipedia:Cleanup (general cleanup requests). -- Rick Block (talk) 13:08, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Redirected talk of recreated article[edit]

Not quite sure what to do about this one... sometime in the past, the article Waikato (the name of a region, a district, and river in New Zealand) was moved to Waikato (region), and Waikato was made into a dab page. As time went on, th dab page grew into a much larger article dealing with the use of the word Waikato in all its varieties. Problem is, of course, that the original article's talk page was moved too. I noticed this after I posted a comment on what I assumed was Talk:Waikato and it didn't show up on my watchlist (Waikato is there, but not Waikato (region)). So... is it simply a case of undoing the redirect on the talk page and moving back any comments that should have been on Talk:Waikato? And if so, what happens with the page histories? Grutness...wha? 09:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I've now moved the talk page back from Talk:Waikato (region) to Talk:Waikato. Seeing as all of the comments on the talk page are about the disambig page, they should now all be in the right place (with their history retained). So I think this has sorted it? --Vclaw 23:13, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Translation of Articles[edit]

What is the policy for translation of existing articles in English into other languages? Are there any guidelines or things I should look out for?

  • WP:PNT has a table with lots of related information. Basically, there's 3 important rules to remember:
  1. Mention it's a translation and where it came from in your first edit summary and on the talk page.
  2. Don't rely on machine translation alone.
  3. Try to find references in the target language so it remains verifiable on the other wiki.

That last bit may be hard, but it'll pay off. Now get to work! I'm looking forward to seeing your translations. Please consider creating an account if you haven't already. If you do please sign your posts (using for tildes - i.e. ~) on discussion pages like this one. - Mgm|(talk) 21:31, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

regarding m-derived filters[edit]

i would like to get the details of band pass and band elimination filters.And the derivation for the same from k-type band pass/band elimination filters.


I spent a long time trying to decide whether to post to Miscellaneous or event the Help Desk, so i hope this is the right place...
I am having severe problems with another user. He is consistently, in fact increasingly, rude and sarcastic in comments to me on various article talk pages. Though my impatience may have begun to show in remarks, and I did act rashly at one point, I have done my best to maintain an air of civility and reason when addressing him. While I do hope to eventually settle the edit conflicts and revert wars, my more immediate concern is to break the tension and reduce wikistress for both of us. In this attempt, I believe the question of who's right and who's wrong about the article content is irrelevant; as I understand it, there is no reason not to be civil even during a dispute. I'm something of a newcomer to the Wikipedia, and as such don't have allies to jump to my defense. Since RfC requires at least 2 users to have attempted to deal with the problem, I really don't know where to turn. -- WikidSmaht (talk) 02:29, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I suspect that if you indicate what page(s) demonstrate the problem, someone will come look. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
I hope so, but where would that be appropriate? RfC and RfM don't seem to be the right places, and neither does this page... If you tell me where I should do so, I will collect links and diffs sometime soon( after I finish a major update to my user page and have a chance to calm down/stop feeling sick from the conflict). Thank you for your help! -- WikidSmaht (talk) 06:04, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
If you haven't already, you might read Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. Sounds to me like one of Wikipedia:Third opinion, Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts, or (if the other party agrees) Wikipedia:Requests for mediation might be appropriate next steps. -- Rick Block (talk) 13:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Request for comment wp:rfc is the place for soliticing fresh looks at a contentious article. alteripse 10:23, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Herbalife spam[edit]

Hi! These edits strike me as dubious:

They irk me enough that my first instinct is to revert them. Is that too extreme a reaction? William Pietri 00:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

No, it is not too extreme - Nameneko reverted them between you asking the question and this answer. Thryduulf 08:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks. I'm still getting a feel for community standards here, and I really appreciate feedback like this. William Pietri 15:14, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Swapping articles[edit]

The articles Charles Orde Wingate and Orde Charles Wingate need interchanging.

The name of the man was Orde Charles Wingate - so this page should contain the article. The redirect should be from the incorrect C.O.W. to the correct O.C.W.

I was tempted just to swap the text between articles - please can someone confirm that this was not the thing to do! And moving seemed inappropriate Saltmarsh 09:11, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

If you had just pasted the text then the edit history would not have been preserved, which in addition to being impractical would also violate the terms of the GFDL. Why is it inappropriate to just move the article (done)? Thue | talk 15:21, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for that - My look at help didn't help. I imagined moving the article would delete the target? Is this what happened - you then created the new redirect. Or does the target get renamed into a temp article? John Saltmarsh 06:11, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
There were no article at the target, only a redirect. Normaly you cannot overwrite another article by moving, but in this case I could because the target was only a redirect. The new redirect was created automatically by the move command. Thue | talk 06:27, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Note, this only works for articles which have no history since the creation of the redirect. If other edits had been made, and then the redirect recreated, you could not move the article over the top of it; an admin would have to delete the redirect to make room (taking steps to preserve the history). — Catherine\talk 04:26, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


I have seen numbered lists where the numberings aren't broken by headings:

85. Item #85
86. Item #86


87. Item #87
88. Item #88

But I can't remember the syntax for doing this. Can anyone help me out? Ingoolemo talk 19:07, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Gore, Oklahoma

This rembot-generated article has been getting a lot of editing concerning a child-abuse case that apparently is/was a big deal in the town. That material and the tone of the edits don't strike me as being very encyclopedic, even if it is sourced in the local paper. I keep thinking that it's just a town's dirty laundry being aired on Wikipedia. Would someone else look at it and offer up an opinion? Joyous (talk) 19:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the case is notable, and I just heavily rewrote the that bit. I'll be watching it, but I'd like to hear some other opinions--Sean Jelly Baby? 03:34, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Arctic National Wildlife Refuge[edit]

Arctic National Wildlife Refuge looks like it was written by PR consultants for an oil company. The article contains flatly ludicrous claims such as the creation of 2 million jobs based on a report from an obviously partisan source. The US workforce is only about 100-130 million and as a modern industrial economy the majority of jobs are in tertiarry industry. Primary industry such as oil extraction is unlikely to be more than 20 million total of which the majority will be agriculture. It is doubtful that there are 2 million people employed in the whole of the oil extraction industry.

The article also has a bunch of bloggish titles that are POV in themselves 'How much oil?', 'How many jobs'.

Origins of Paleoindians[edit]

Origins of Paleoindians looks a bit iffy. Might be a copyvio, but a google didn't seem to turn up anything (wrong selection, perhaps?) Could someone look into it? At the very least, it needs to be cleaned up. — Ambush Commander(Talk) 01:13, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Worms of the Earth[edit]

Can someone please take a look at this article. It looks like it is a direct copy from somewhere but the only hit that I get for a key phrase is from a wikipedia mirror. I am off to bed now and am too tired to work out whether it needs noting as a potential copyvio; nominating for deletion or marking for wikification, cleanup and expansion. Thryduulf 23:47, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I've tidied it. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Moving article sections into new articles[edit]

How do I view one section at a time so I can request it to be moved to a seperate, more specific location if the section gets too long? HereToHelp 17:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

With the [edit] link to the top right of the section. ~~ N (t/c) 17:32, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, perhaps that wasn't clear enough—how do I move those sections? I've been told never to cut and paste because it destroys the history. HereToHelp talk 20:27, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you can do a cut-and-paste move if you place on the talk page of the destination something saying "Original content moved from (original article), see its history for attribution information." ~~ N (t/c) 20:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, breaking away a section of an article is one of the situations in which making a copy-paste move is pretty much unavoidable. --cesarb 20:49, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

List Of Climbers compiler[edit]

I don't know wether I should post this here but this is the question:

Who compiled the List of Climbers and what are the criteria ? What is the meaning of blue and red entries ? Could a climber add his own name ?

Thanks, 13:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Please don't add your own name unless you are an internationally known climber with a significant record of important climbs and references in newspapers, magazines and Google sites.

Red links are for those people who do not have articles about them, blue links are for those people who have articles about them. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Australian prisoner row[edit]

Strange things have recently been happening at Talk:List of Australians in international prisons. I first noticed this referred to in an entirely inappropriate edit to "Speedy Deletions", which I reverted. Talk:List of Australians in international prisons has had a lot of excited and silly-seeming unsigned messages, many of which seem to be a lot less about the article than about score-settling and name-calling. I have attributed a number of these messages to the IP numbers that posted them, but this is only a tiny start. Given an hour, I could probably work out what's going on here; but (i) I (neither Australian nor in Australia) am utterly unacquainted with this business so it would take me longer than it would take a level-headed Australian; and (ii) I'm using my office computer, and my office will soon close. Could some level-headed person, Australian or otherwise, please take a look. -- Hoary 08:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


I've added an afd header to P-P-P-Powerbook, but due to the IE bug, I can't create the AfD page. I would have indicated that this is a non-notable page about a non-notable incident in the history of a non-notable website (even though we have to keep the article on the main website due to lack of consensus to delete it). Could somebody complete the process for me? Thank you. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Why does he keep deleting my post?[edit]

Hello everyone. This is my first contribution and a user keeps deleting my addition every time. On the -phobia page, I added hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia to the list and linked it to it's Wiktionary page. Twice now, when I came back to it, this user deleted it. Is there some hidden reason for this that I'm not aware of? Even if this phobia is fictional (I'm not sure if it is but it's already in the Wiktionary and all over the internet), there are fictional phobias listed on the page already such as "Anatidaephobia - Fear that somewhere, somehow, a duck is watching you." Could someone please let me know what's going on with it? Thanks.

Jackie 02:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

The Anatidaephobia article has been repetedly deleted. However, it (arguably) merits mention in an encyclopedia because it was featured in a Far Side cartoon. If your fictional phobia doesn't have an equally notable source, it may not be sensible to include on a list of phobias. What's the source of "hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia"? -- SCZenz 03:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
This was discussed on the -phobia talk page: Talk:-phobia#Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Try looking there. -- SCZenz 03:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Image deletion assistance[edit]

I'm not quite sure where to put this... I need to have all of my Red Dot maps for Indiana deleted from the Wikipedia site (NOT the Commons site!). I created improved versions, and chose to upload them to the Commons, but WP articles cannot 'see' them since WP has its own copy.

There are about 120 of them. You can find them in the Category:Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 maps of Indiana with the file name US-IN-xxxxx.png (not the red and white county maps that are also in that category) - Marvin01 | talk 06:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I deleted 122 images with file names US-IN-xxxxx.png. I did not delete Image:US-IN-Allen County Municipalities.jpg, Image:US-IN-Fort Wayne.jpg, and Image:US-IN-Muncie.gif, as they were not in Category:Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 maps of Indiana. I also did not delete Image:US-IN-Evansville.png and Image:US-IN-Gary.png. Corresponding images do exist on commons but they were not in commons:Category:Locator maps of cities in Indiana, so I was not totally sure whether you wanted them deleted, even though I guess you do. Since image deletions are irreversible, I decided to play it safe. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 22:37, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you very much! The Allen County map is not mine, so it is good you left that one. The Fort Wayne jpg and the Muncie gif are not mine either. I replaced them with mine on their article pages, but it is best to leave them around I guess. The rest it should be ok to delete. I still have some categories to clean up on the Commons site, but that should not cause any problems in the mean time. Thanks again, - Marvin01 | talk 03:18, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, Image:US-IN-Evansville.png and Image:US-IN-Gary.png are now deleted as well. I noticed that some of the maps have talk pages, like Image talk:US-IN-South Bend.png. I presume they can be deleted as well? -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 13:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Unknown Album Title[edit]

The following article ...Maybe_Fuck_You claims to represent an album by Mike Meyers (misspelling of Mike Myers?) .. however I cannot find any reference to this album on the internet.

I checked using google for the alleged #7 hit, however there again is no refererence.

Should this be removed, how do we confirm articles like this?

--jameselliot 22:45, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

You could ask the person who created the article (Allamerican13 (talk · contribs)) to cite their sources. If there's no evidence the album exists, it's probably a hoax article that can be listed on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Angela. 02:52, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I have added a request on his talk page. Thank you for your advise jameselliot 18:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Treasures of Aht Urhgan[edit]

I was the one who originally created the page for that, and now it says that this 'Halliwell3' or something created it. Why is that?

The page you created, "Treasures of Aht Urhgan", was changed into a redirect to another page that already existed. To see what exactly happened:
  1. Type Treasures of Aht Urhgan in the search box and click Go
  2. Note the article you're now at is called Final Fantasy XI: Treasures of Aht Urhgan and that in small type below this, it says "Redirected from Treasures of Aht Urhgan". Click that small link.
  3. You'll be brought to the redirect page. Click the "history" tab and you'll see that you're still listed as the creator.
In the future, by the way, please sign your posts with four tilde marks ('~~~~') so we know who to look for in the page histories and such. Tempshill 22:14, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Making maps[edit]

I was wondering how the different maps on Wikipedia were created and if I could create some to illustrate the many articles that are in need of them. Is there any particular software that's the standard for Wikipedia? Thanks. Theshibboleth 00:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Not an answer to your question! Ordnance Survey provide outlines of Britain - with and without county boundaries - and can be used as a base for other maps. These are available for free, but OS must be acknowledged. Saltmarsh 05:34, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Free but noncommercial. We can't take noncommercial images. Secretlondon 11:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
A great many maps have been taken outright from the CIA World Factbook, mostly because the maps are in the public domain. If it suits your purposes, you can always use them as a start and do whatever you want with them (cropping, zooming, adding text, rotating, superimposing each country's leader's head on the country....) Tempshill 22:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
As far as software's concerned, I believe we're encouraged to use the SVG format for new maps now that Wikimedia supports it properly: in that case consider Inkscape, which is a very good free editor. Haeleth 22:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. I guess I'll try my luck simplifying pre-exisitng maps and editing them with the Inkscape editor, though I think the SVG stuff will probably require some adjusting to on my part. Theshibboleth 10:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

External Links Policy[edit]

Hello, I know that what I am discussing is a potentially sensitive subject but I want to open up a discussion here and get some feedback and advice on how to move forward. Basically for the last few months I have been adding external links to certain computer networking & security articles and I would like to know why some links are removed and considered link spam while other links remain. The articles which I link to all contain useful information which is totally free and from what I can gather does not violate the External Link policies. There is no registration required and the article adds to and supplements the information found on the wikipedia article. Looking at some of the other External links on certain wikipedia articles I can definitely say that my External links do not differ from others. I can understand that since I link to the same sites but to different articles this may be considered spam but I never put a link at the top and only add the external link if it complements the wikipedia article. I do not want to be considered a vandal or a spammer so I would just like to know how I can contribute without a negative impact. Would there be a limit of how many external links can be added per week? I don't understand why the links were removed if the content was useful for wikipedia guests. Also why were some links removed while others allowed to stay? Please let me know what I can do and I will respect that decision.

--MikeVella 10:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Generally if you are adding links to several articles and they point to a commercial site, this can be considered spam because it is using Wikipedia for advertising. Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, it is an encyclopedia. Basically, if an editor feels your contributions are no more than adding ext links to a lot of articles, chances are good they will remove the link, or if they feel the link has no informative and relevant info, it will be removed. I looked at your contribs and this is your first edit, if you provide the link you are concerned about, we could probably better answer your question. «»Who?¿?meta 11:05, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

The sites that I link to are and They are both free resources for IT professionals and as I mentioned before require no signing up, registration or anything of the sort. I recently added a link under the FTP article. I linked to the following article Understanding the FTP Protocol. I also linked to various other articles about different Network protocols and they were all removed. I added these links over a span of a few months and not at once. Looking at the article I linked to I don't understand why it was removed as link spam since it provides relevant information about the topic. Of course I will understand if linking to one site is a bit dubious... but all the information there complements the articles well... Anyway let me know what you think. Thanks! --MikeVella 15:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, in that particular case, FTP, if you look at this diff you will see that they removed a large amount of links. Mainly because there were so many and they had to make a choice of which ones were better, more technical, etc. A lot of times this will happen because so many users add a ton of different links, and it goes back to the "WP is not a repository of links...". It is not that we do not appreciate your contributions, they just happened to get caught up in the mix of links that were removed. The only advice I could really give, is only add links to those articles you feel may need some clarification outside of the article that the other links possibly do not already offer. Other than that, the link you added was a good addition, if it weren't for the other 5 or 10 links that were already there or added. Hope that helps. «»Who?¿?meta 15:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. I will be a bit more cautious about adding links in the future and try to stick to your recommendation. The last thing I want to do is to be labelled a vandal. Thanks!--MikeVella 09:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Is username change possible?[edit]

Is it possible to change your username? Is it possible to have your edits reattributed to your IP address or a different username? Thanks Lisa 08:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

  • It used to be possible, the feature is currently disabled. See Wikipedia:Changing username. Although a developer still may do it, but that would be more of a personal favor. «»Who?¿?meta 08:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

All right -- I give up. Two questions I can't find an answer to.[edit]

I have been looking on this site for close to two hours for answers to a couple of really basic questions that should be in the open, @ "how to edit" or "your first page" and they're not. If anyone could direct me to a remedial page I would be grateful.

1) Is the signature supposed to link to a personal page? If so, why are we warned about have a "vanity" article? I'm confused -- is there no "about the user" data? (And why isn't this all documented real nice and easy?)
2) What is the secret to adding an embedded image? The button produces this: **Image:Example.jpg** with brackets of course. But no clue anywhere as to how it's used? If external links are forbidden?


-- John Meghly Xgenei 03:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

The signature links to your userpage, not to a personal page, there is a difference. As for how to use images, see Wikipedia:Extended image syntax. «»Who?¿?meta 03:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
{2] A picture has to be hosted on Wikipedia (or the Commons) in order for you to link to it. Linking to external pics left us open to too much vandalism (in the days before we willingly hosted naughty pictures). So the "secret" is probably: you have to "upload" a picture to Wikipedia (via the "Upload file" in the toolbox menu that is probably on the left side of your screen) before you can link to it with syntax that you already know. (This also means the picture should be public domain or GFDL).
[1] User pages aren't articles: your user page can hold anything you want the entire world to know about you forever and ever, and we won't charge you with vanity. - Nunh-huh 04:35, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:User page for more info about user pages and Wikipedia:Namespace for information about other types of pages. I agree this should be explained someplace fairly prominently, but I'm not sure how you'd find this if you didn't already know. If you let me know where you looked, I'd be willing to try to make sure this gets explained somewhere along the path you searched. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:37, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
Super Rick Block. Take a look at the very first sentence above and you will see where I thought I should find these specific answers the first time I needed to know them! You might also have a link at these sites to an article about "How Wikipedia is Structured" to give a basic idea about its organization. I happened just to run across some peripheral discussion that gave some incidental history.
It's really a pleasure to be a part of the community (until I have my first fight over something I've created that some hominid has just mashed, I'm sure.) Great execution and strategy. I think it's going to be quite a hobby for me. (except no drag & drop yet! Bother!)
-- John Meghly Xgenei 04:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Assistance on image copyright[edit]

Please forgive me if this is not in the correct place. I have just received a notification that an image I uploaded for an article that I wrote (Chepstow Bridge), has no accreditiation and will be deleted in seven days because of concerns about its copyright status. I went to considerable trouble to get hold of an image whose owner was willing for it to be used on Wikipedia and acknowledged it as such. How do I prove that to the satisfaction of Wikipedians? Peter Maggs 19:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

The general instructions are at Wikipedia:Image description page. Assuming you're talking about Image:Brunel Chepstow bridge.jpg, the issue is the copyright status. If you're still in contact with John Morris, if you explain to him what GFDL and public domain are, and he agrees to license the photo under one of these, you can update the image description page indicating the license status. I'm not a lawyer (most of us here aren't) but GFDL basically says anyone can do anything they'd like with the image, including modifying or selling it, so long as they credit where it came from and license it under GFDL while public domain basically says anyone can do anything they like with it, no strings attached. For more details, I'm sure any of the users listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Members would be happy to help. -- Rick Block (talk) 00:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Need admin help re personal attacks.[edit]

Page in question is Talk:Joey Harrington. I slapped an {{npov}} tag on the Joey Harrington about ten days ago, waited a week for comments, and got nothing but a few personal attacks from this one particular user. With no constructive feedback coming, I edited the page to remove the POV content (largely abstract and qualitative criticisms of Harrington) and replaced it with a summary of his statistical standing among NFL quarterbacks.

What I could use is an admin to drop by the talk page and point out that this user, Mithotyn, is violating the no personal attacks policy. So far, he has called me a "moron," an "insecure uppity tight ass," a "hypocrite," and a few other less direct insults. I don't care what he calls me, but it wouldn't hurt to set him straight before he spreads his special brand of editing to other pages. Oh, and he won't sign his comments on talk pages. Thanks. | Keithlaw 22:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

In my opinion, at least, unsigned insults on article talk pages are perfectly appropriate to just remove. (I wouldn't do it on user talk pages, personally, but that's not relevant to the case at hand. Nor would I do it with statements that have content aside from just being insulting.) -- SCZenz 19:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Where can I get assistance setting up a mediawiki site? (already installed)[edit]

Where can I get assistance setting up a mediawiki wiki? We have an installed version but I am sunsure how to do things such as:

  • adding users into specific groups
  • creating templates that can be used as the basis for pages created by users

I am thankful for any assistance people can offer--Peter 02:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Trevor Ashmore[edit]

This is a stub article not marked as such, it needs cleanup and adding to a category. There are also no inbound links. I thought about putting it up for deletion, but a google search suggests they probably are notable. I don't know enough about them or wikipedia to do what needs doing though. 22:24, 15 October 2005 (UTC) (I do have an account but for reasons to do with my sanity I am remaining anonymous for now).

Asking for images[edit]

Where would be the best place to request images? I'm looking for a photomicrograph of Quartz in XPL showing undulose extinction (for the undulose extinction article obviously), but I don't have the equipment to take it, and I'm wary of just grabbing one off the web. Is there somewhere specific people can request images like this?

Weebs 20:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, at Wikipedia:Requested pictures. -- Rick Block (talk) 21:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Attribution details[edit]

I've just put my first image into Wikipedia under Creative Commons copyright. Can anyone direct me to examples of how you specify on an image description page what attribution you'd like people to give?

Albertus Pictor 02:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Naming for "nationality x" categories pertaining to the United States[edit]

I've started a page for discussion of what form of naming should be used for "nationality x" categories pertaining to the United States. Please participate at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (categories)/Usage of American. Editors highly skilled in consensus building are requested to help moderate. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Links in Burning Man[edit]

I would like the input of other Wikipedians on the topic of Links in article Burning Man. Please come to the Links section of Talk:Burning Man and provide your input, if you have time. Thanks! Kit 21:14, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


Cound someone have a look at the series of recent edits by User:Wbfl to Road and Pavement (material) and also my comments to him on his talk page, as well as the comment at Talk:Road. This user is continually removing parts of these texts seemingly because it doesn't agree with his personal view. So far, so ho-hum. However, he will not enter into any discourse on the subject, his edit comments are full of invective, his only comment at the top of his own talk page is 'your comments are not welcome' and he also calles himself a 'legal sockpuppet' , whatever that might be. All in all it adds up to someone trying to push an agenda without entering into the spirit of Wikipedia. I'd be grateful for some back-up or input on this. Graham 08:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Just as a note for anyone else coming across this request, the issue seems to have died down, as of now, with the conclusion being that the section(now semi-referenced) stays in. JesseW, the juggling janitor 08:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Pegasus Award winners[edit]

I created this category to tie together the pages of the various filkers who had won this award. However, I suspect I did this badly. Should have I just made it "Pegasus Awards", so I could tie the Pegasus Awards page into the category? If so, is there a fast way to fix it, or do I just have to fix each page manually? Thanks.

I'm pretty sure you did it right (viz. the subcategories of Category:Recipients_of_formal_honors), but if not, you would go to Wikipedia:Categories for deletion and request that a bot do the renaming for you. ~~ N (t/c) 02:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Winter Olympics 2006[edit]

I put in the talk page for the 2006 Winter Olympics a suggestion to put the national flags of participating nations - as has happened for Salt Lake City's 2002 article. No reply to that so was going to "be bold" (to coin a phrase) and do it; however I am struck by how many dead links currently exist and how few articles have been formed on participating teams. I wondered, before I make changes, if I could delete all the links to articles yet to be formed, create a section for existing internal links, and replace the Participating nations section with a table of nations and flags ? When more is known about specific nations, then this section can be 'rebuilt' with links to articles? doktorb 19:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest leaving them alone, because red-links encourage people to create articles. I like the flags idea, however. Oh, and- It always wise to Be bold!.--Sean|Black 20:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends[edit]

Please could someone fix the table formating on this article. I don't have time at the moment. Thanks. Thryduulf 22:46, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Looks like someone's done it already. — mendel  01:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Futures Studies[edit]

This project could probably use some help from someone familiar with organizing WikiProjects. ᓛᖁ♀ 14:16, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Aqua template[edit]

I was thinking of developing a dynamic (sweetwater)aquarium guide template similar to the taxobox. Per species of fish one can add:

temperature ph range general hardness range carbonate hardness range whether the fish is a bottom, surface or 'middle' dweller whether it requires flowing water ease of keeping ease of breeding

Preferably this would use graphic icons.

I wonder whether there is a place on wikipedia where i can experiment with dynamic templates? And is there anyone who would be willing to provide assistance?

Chelman 15:30, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Well....actually i got down to it and managed to put down an early version. you can check the template out by adding the following to an aquarium fish-species page (use the preview mode ;) :

{{Aquabox_begin | name = Gourami}}
{{Aquabox_temperature | name = 24-27°C}}
{{Aquabox_GH | name = 5-8}}
{{Aquabox_KH | name =  unknown}}
{{Aquabox_pH | name = 6.5-7}}
{{Aquabox_water_region | name = ALL}}
{{Aquabox_social_behaviour | name = Pair}}

I would be most grateful for any and all suggestions on how to improve the template.

Chelman 16:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

From 'future studies' to 'futures studies'[edit]


A number of colleagues of mine from the World Futures Studies Federation (WFSF) are together editing the page on studies of the future. The problem we have is that the page title (which we cannot change) is 'future studies'. The previous contributors named it by using something they call a 'google test' comparing the number of hits from different titles.

The problem is that no one in this field calls it 'future studies'. I myself have a Masters in Futures Studies, know many in the field, and have conducted a survey of futures related courses around the world. There are half a dozen universities in the US that offer one course or another on 'futures studies'. No one calls it 'future studies'.

There are epistemological reasons why scholars in this area have come to call it futures (plural) over the past 2 decades, but it would indeed require long winded explanations. All I really need to know is: do we change it?


Jose Ramos

Most of the time, there's a "Move" tab next to the "Edit this page" tab. In your case, however, futures studies already exists as redirect to future studies, in which case you'll need to list it at WP:RM. Now, I presume that you're involved in this "Wikiraid" thing, but I don't think that this will happen as quickly as you want.-Sean Black | Talk 04:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Sean

Thanks for your quick feedback. I'm not quite sure how I would list it at WP:RM. I'll post it to the others and see if they know what you mean.


Jose Globaleyes 23:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

A-ha! Futures studies. All set, the move is already done. See how helpful we are? :).--Sean Black | Talk 01:15, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Two different people with the same name[edit]

How should one describe two separate people with the same name?

e.g. there is already an entry for Laszlo Szabo Hungarian fencing master and I would like to add an entry about Laszlo Szabo the Hungarian chess Grand Master.

Should I include in the same page? If yes how should I make clear these are two people with the same name?

You can create the new article at László Szabó (chess player), and move the old article to László Szabó (fencing master). In that case, László Szabó should be a disambiguation page, with links to both other pages.
Or, if one of them is much better known than the other, that person should be at László Szabó, with a link at the top "For the chess player, see László Szabó (chess player). -- Eugene van der Pijll 11:07, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Gabor 11:42, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome. However, next time that you move a page, please don't just cut & paste the contents to the new page. This means the edit history of the article remains at the old location, and is no longer connected to the page itself. I have corrected this for the László Szabó pages. There is a "move" link at the top of the page, next to the "edit" link. It's better to use that one, and easier too! -- Eugene van der Pijll 12:47, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Page worth keeping?[edit]

Hi! Looking through a recent spate of garbage edits, I'm trying to decide if Madison academic high school is worth keeping. I removed all the cruft, which leaves very little, and the article isn't connected anywhere. Should I leave it be? Is it junky enough to call for a speedy deletion? Or should I take it through the regular deletion process? Thanks! --William Pietri 23:16, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

If you are in doubt, it's best to use the "regular deletion process". --cesarb 15:23, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
You could just put the appopriate category and stub markers on it, and bring it to the attention of the folks at Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools. It might be notable and worth expanding. -- SCZenz 22:37, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Help with image copyright[edit]

Not being American and all I'm not sure I totally understand the GFDL with regard to certain images: scanned images from magazines and magazine covers: are they allowable in Wikipedia or not? Every image in the article Gia Carangi has been scanned in by a new user from a number of glossy magazines: are these copyvio images or not? -- Francs2000 10:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Scanned images from copyrighted magazines and magazine covers actually falls under the guidelines at Wikipedia:Fair use. Under United States copyright law, some usages of copyrighted materials without the permission of the copyright holder are considered fair use rather than copyvio. So the answer to your question: it depends on how the images are being used on Gia Carangi. Therefore, you should read the criteria on WP:FU. And if you need help, you can tag the images with {{fairusereview}}. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 18:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Better yet, you may want to post a message on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fair use. That WikiProject was set up by users who want to help monitor and improve the use of fair use images here on Wikipedia. They can probably help you more than I can. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 19:05, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

The Anthem of Death[edit]

As Info, because I'm not used to en: - The german article about this band was deleted as a fake. -- srb 10:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

It has been added to AFD. Thanks. Tempshill 04:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


How do you report harassment here? --20px Spinboy 02:30, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. You could also let admins know at WP:AN and WP:AN/I.--Sean Black | Talk 21:31, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Imposter and fake accounts[edit]

I reported this to 2 admins whio are familiar with my work. Please floolow up and ban this imposter. The 2 admins are

I find this disgusting. Surely this user can be banned, that fake acct closed, and some censure applied to prevent it. He even copied the admins barnstar I got. Iago Dali 18:59, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Report of Hacking

crosspost at

As I am not well connected at Wiki, and you are the only admin I know of, I wonder if you could help me? I believe my account has been hacked into, or some shenanigans have been going on. I have been trying to tighten and condense many literary articles and sometimes have argued with others. I believe one of the people who argued with me must be trying to take vengeance by hacking into my account. I recently edited the entry on Knut Hamsun- a Nobel winner, and my work was undone ithout any explanation. In fact on the talk page for history there is this entry

(cur) (last) 17:42, 25 October 2005 Iago DaIi m (on second thought, photo is relevant to KH history)

This was not me, but someone screwing around. The edit just under it was my last and on my contributions page the edit above is not listed as TOP. This is obviously someone trying to play games and perhaps using some hacking skills to screw with my edits. How do I report this? And how do I prevent this from occurring again? It's bad enough hacking goes on in the real world, but here? My edits and tightening make enough emnemies, I do not need one of those people recklessly getting me in trouble. Please advise and reply on my talk page. Thanks. Iago Dali 18:28, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


I dug about and discovered that someone made an account and copied all my info:

Notice the capital I (I as in ice), not an l (L as in Lake). Here is my real page:

Here is the perpetrator's contributions page:

Obviously, this person is trying to create trouble. Tony, since you could ban me I asssume you can permanently block this imposter's IP # from trying to ruin my edits. I will report this at and the other admin, as well.

This is atrocious, and someone I disagreed with is obviously trying to frame me for bad edits or the like. Please help me out. Thanks, Iago Dali 18:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Blocked permanently. Thanks for reporting. ~~ N (t/c) 19:07, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Vandal hit Cool Cat, Iago Dali, and Alabamaboy in past few days. Suspecting return of Doppelganger vandal. Don Diego(Talk) 20:10, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

George Franklin Barber[edit]

I suspect this to be a copyvio, but I can't find anything online. Are there any architect enthusiasts who can check their books? - Mgm|(talk) 10:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Not me, but I'm copying and pasting your comment to the article's discussion page where interested people will see it in the future. Tempshill 04:15, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Using Wikipedia as an article repository[edit]

I don't know where to put this so I'll put it here. The International Biopharmaceutical Association seem to be using us as a storage service. They pasted in the content of Nursing Approach to Vaginal Cancer which they claim is copyright free. It's not actually on their web site - but a link to the Wikipedia article is. They have an A to Z list on their web site with "Powered by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Articles were developed by IBPA volunteers.". At the bottom of their page they have ©2004 International Biopharmaceutical Association Inc., all rights reserved.

It's not a mirror - as it is linking to our content. It's not loading in a frame. It doesn't appear to be a breach of the GFDL. It's just strange - these are unwikified howtos of unknown authorship. Also claiming that they wrote our articles on Food and Drug Administration for example is clearly false. What shall we do? Secretlondon 19:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

In general I'd say just edit the stuff they've submitted mercilessly until they're proper articles; if they're happy with the result they're free to link it, if they're not they can lump it. As for claiming they authored an article they didn't, I suppose someone could send them a nastygram about it but there's better uses of your time.
In this case the "Nursing approach to..." articles they've mass-uploaded aren't really encyclopaedic though, and unless someone feels like merging the useful bits, if any, I'd say put them up for deletion. --fvw* 19:22, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I've already stuck Biopharmaceutical networking on afd - I'm going to plough through and find the others.. Secretlondon 19:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Pretty much everything by Intbiopharm is suspect, though some of his articles have encyclopedic potential. I wonder why the Nursing Approach series is being pasted in by an IP, when the IBPA has its very own account? Haeleth 20:34, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Now, this is interesting: lookie here. What possible reason could they have for creating similar pages on Blogspot? Haeleth 20:40, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Search engine optimisation? Secretlondon 20:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Patently unencylopedic articles which are have titles of common search terms (they sound like things you'd search for), linked from their own webpages, are plain attempts at googlebombing. Speedy move the damn things. Alphax τεχ 10:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Any use for Wikisource instead of WP? Apwoolrich 20:48, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure I trust any of it. Secretlondon 20:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The postings are actually pretty good nursing care plans and I created a subcategory, retitled them, moved them, and started cleaning them up. Having usable information for nursing students and nurses will help the whole category expand and improve. THB 00:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Someone is claiming and granting a copyright all at once on this talk page[edit]

How do we verify this? And then what do we do? It's quite odd as it's not usually the way that copyvio investigations come about.... [9] Jacqui 14:12, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

From the looks of it, he made up his own new verses to an old song, claims copyright on the new verses, but says we can use them.... Of course the question is why would we even want to use them? Wikipedia articles are not the place for creative writing. It's like no original research but worse: No original fiction writing. I'd just ignore it and remove it if someone tries to put it into the main article. DreamGuy 16:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Viewing NEW articles created by a user[edit]

I am trying to figure out how many NEW articles are being created by User:Striver. I believe that the figure is rather high, but the new article creation is masked by his subsequent edits to the newly created articles, and by the sheer number of edits that he makes. He has made over 500 edits in the last five days. Rather than having to click on 100 edits a day to find out what is happening, I'd like to be able to see what NEW articles he has created. Is there a way to do this? Zora 01:28, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Unblocking request[edit]

Via helpdesk-l I got an undeletion request for the IP According to the submitter, the IP address is shared by various unrelated people because of "transparent proxying" by Telefonica. I would have liked to unblock myself, but I am not a sysop any more. If possible, you could also notify the original requester at dkmaster AT It might be someone else from the Helpdesk already unblocked this, of course. - Andre Engels 07:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Mount or Mt???[edit]

I have been trying to find if there is a policy on whether article titles should not contain abbrevaitions or not. I was creating a wikilink for a Mountain, and I did not what if any policy existed. I would preume the same issue would apply to things life St or Street, St or Saint, Rd or Road and so forth. Where do I find a discussion or policy on this?SauliH 05:04, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (acronyms) is the closest thing I could find. Also, it seems that most of these article are at their unabreviated titles.--Sean|Black 05:17, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Thank you. I had read that page, but I did not really think it spoke to that. I think it would be helpful to at least make a policy on it if there is not one already. Anyone else know more about this?SauliH 05:33, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (toponymy) -- Zondor 06:15, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Talk:North High Debate Team[edit]

Can someone take a look at this? I don't understand what is going on here. I was checking for contributions by an anonymous editor of Ian Galchutt (an article that will probably have been speedied by the time you read this), and I came across Talk:North High Debate Team, which appears to be a talk page without a corresponding article. Looks like the article was deleted — shouldn't the talk page have been deleted along with it? --DavidConrad 01:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes it's forgotten. Deleted. --cesarb 01:43, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Editors signing other editors' edits[edit]

Is there any policy or convention that applies where I make a contribution to a talk page, forget to sign it, and another editor identifies me as the author and then goes in an signs it with my signature but without consulting me? Cheers JackofOz 01:25, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

None I know of, but usually it's done using the {{unsigned}} or {{unsigned2}} templates. --cesarb 01:46, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Color vs Colour[edit]

First off, has there been a large discussion about "color" vs "colour"? Is it settled debate?

Second, some number of mirrored articles/categories/templates were just created. From what I can tell, copy-and-pasted articles aren't supposed to exist on Wikipedia, but I don't want to do something unilateral in bad faith, or without having a discussion first before doing a lot of work to resolve it in one direction or the other if concensus will go the other way.

The articles recently created are:

If there have been several discussions about this before, is the proper thing to put #REDIRECTs everywhere (eg. as is done with Category:Colour stubs?

I started doing this, and therefore some double-directs need to be fixed, and there's a CFD for Category:Colour, but it's more work than I realized, and wanted to make sure that this is the right thing to do before completing it. --Interiot 13:07, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

No idea if it's been debated, but in my view there is nothing wrong with redirects. They cost almost nothing, and benefit users who are searching using their native preferred spelling. The americanised 'color' is less widespread than you might think, globally. Graham 16:37, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

re: "color" vs "colour", either is used for the appropriate context it is in. if its associated with American use Color. if Australian, then Colour. -- Zondor 06:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Lannoy - 1623 painting by Croy[edit]

On the page there is an image "Lannoy vue par Charles Cröy en 1623". You state that the image is in the public domain.

I wish to use the image in a forthcoming book but would like to get access to the best quality original possible. Do you know where or how this can be obtained?

Thanking you in anticipation.

George English

Shouldn't you ask on the French wiki rather than the English one? Brookie: A collector of little round things 09:57, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Info Box Help?[edit]

Hi, I need help with info boxes. I think they're just above my head. I've tried working with templates and looked through the instructions for about a half hour but progressed none. I'm hoping to write articles for each of the vessels of the Alaska Marine Highway System but I would like to have an info box for a ferry vessel first.

Could someone perhaps create one for me?

Jarfingle 06:41, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I think I can help. What information are you planning to include in the infobox(i.e. name, route, date established...)? Superm401 | Talk 04:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I can't change the skin.[edit]

I am using the chick skin, but I can't change it. I can click on a skin , but when I try and click on save, nothing happens.

--Katieh5584 20:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Category - What do to?[edit]

Got myself lost trying to find the page to flag up [[Category:Secretaries of State for Defence (UK)]] as a blank category page. Where do you go to request categories or pages like this be considered for deletion ? doktorb 09:29, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

You can request the deletion of a category at WP:CFD. If it has never contained any articles, it can be speedy deleted, but CFD is a safe bet. Superm401 | Talk 18:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Non-Compliant Japanese Mirror[edit]

Can someone living in Japan send a Wikipedia:Standard GFDL violation letter to the below address? He's operator of the non-compliant mirror (see The address is from a whois lookup. Thanks. Superm401 | Talk 02:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd email it to him myself, but the email was , so I thought a letter was better. Superm401 | Talk 02:35, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Kanamaru Junichi

Security Networks Corp.

4-8-3 Sotokanda Sekine Bild. 3F Chiyoda-ku Tokyo 1010021 Japan

I'll try to contact some Japanese wikipedians first.--Jondel 05:59, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The link is dead at this moment (?)--Jondel 06:03, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Help with section formatting[edit]

I'm relatively new here and am not yet versed enough in the code to be able to fix this, although i tried unsucessfully. In Somalia, the EDIT links for section 1 (History) and Section 2 (politics) have both somehow found their way into the first line of the body of section 2 next to each other, rather than in line with their respective section titles. If anyone can figure out what is causing this (i suspect it has to do with the table and picture running down the right side of the page) and can fix it, id appreciate it, since im out of my league on this one. --Lanoitarus 02:30, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I moved the pics around to fix the described issue? Are you satisfied with the current appearance? Superm401 | Talk 02:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Thats perfect, clever solution! Thanks! --Lanoitarus 21:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


I just saw Template:User_ka and I realised this is not the Georgian language (KA) template as that's not even the Georgian alphabet. I guess someone made a mistake in the language code. Would anyone care to fix the mistake please? Thanks, Malafaya 22:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Looks like a character system from somewhere in South Asia or Southeast Asia. Maybe change this temporarily to English until someone can get it right?

Urgent help at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship needed[edit]

I followed the instructions and created this: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/JamesMLane,

but when I try to add the link where I am supposed to, I see only this:

"((Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/JamesMLane))" .


Rex071404 09:06, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

It's been fixed, but in the future, you're supposed use these brackets:{{ }}, not parentheses: (( )).--Sean|Black 09:25, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

E-mail address somehow became username?[edit]

I just joined Wikipedia, and somehow my user account became my e-mail address, instead of a nickname. I don't like my e-mail address being available like that. Please tell me how I can change this!--ViolinGirl 11:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Since you've only made a few edits, wouldn't be easier to just register a new username? The only other way to do it would be going to Wikipedia:Changing username, but that is currently disabled, and will be for the forseeable future.--Sean|Black 23:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks so much, I didn't know I could do that. Thank you! (I changed my signature from my first post.) Thanks..."Candy", now known as ViolinGirl--ViolinGirl 11:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Photo copyright question[edit]

Another one

This image is of refugee shacks in San Francisco after the earthquake. I don't know who took it, but it must have been taken in either 1906 or 1907. What would be the copyright status on it? Thanks!Trollderella 17:52, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It really depends on who took it an when; it could go under the fairuseunsure tag if nothing can be found out. Brookie: A collector of little round things 20:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't know who took them, but they must have been taken in either 1906 or 1907, since the things they show were not there after those dates. Trollderella 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
If they were published at that time, they are certainly now in the public domain. See {{PD-art-US}} -- Jmabel | Talk 08:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Question on deletion policy[edit]

I was hoping someone could give me some insight into what articles should be deleted. Last week I nominated an article for deletion, Christopher Knight (publisher). It was not deleted because there was no consensus. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christopher Knight (publisher)

I don’t know this person, have no particular interest in this person and no stake in whether the article stays or goes. I just came across the article and it struck me as not worthy of inclusion. But I am willing to accept the Wikipedia consensus (or lack thereof).

This was the first time I nominated an article for deletion. The arguments against seem to focus on the subject’s “success”. Is that a reason to have an article about someone? Are we going to have an article about every successful dentist and insurance salesman in every town? This person, as far as I can tell, did not produce any significant innovation, and his “success” was through Google’s AdSense program. There are tens of thousands of AdSense publishers, and we don’t want to have an article about every one of them. I honestly don’t see why this person is notable except that he is a “success”, and not a Bill Gates type success, but a success like my local dentist and insurance salesman.

Also, two of the “keep” votes were from users who appears to have signed up with Wikipedia after I made the nomination. Is this OK? Carax 01:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

It's not okay if users sign up only to vote on your AFD. However, he appears to be sufficiently important to deserve an article. Apparently, his ezine has a page rank under 800. Superm401 | Talk 02:10, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
So you are saying, "yes", someone who started a website that gets a lot of visits is "important" enough to deserve an article. "Page rank" is an Internet thing. Do we give preference to people who work in the Internet?Carax 18:23, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't think so. If an author writes a book that is in the top 1000 read(the equivalent of page rank), he definitely deserves an article too. In fact, most people here would say almost all published authors deserve articles. Superm401 | Talk 04:30, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


There's a short page now available that may be helpful to editors who have had problems with the display of their signatures. Very kind regards encephalon 02:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Need help on helpdesk-l[edit]

  • Are you good at answering questions?
  • Do you have a large email inbox?
  • Do you have lots of spare time on your hands?
  • Do you have infinite patience?

If you answered "yes" to all of the above, helpdesk-l needs your help! We're seriously short of people who can answer questions; we've got legal enquiries/threats/etc. going everywhere, and WE NEED YOU!

Jimbo wants YOU! for helpdesk-l

Thanks, Alphax τεχ 04:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Broken HTML in AFD from a few days back[edit]

Hi. I'm not sure if this is something I can fix, but there is an errant small tag in this entry that is making the rest of the page small. I can't seem to edit the part that the problem is in. Can someone point me to the best way to solve this problem? Thank you. Jessamyn 02:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

You are probably aware of the problem with HTML Tidy that has caused problems like this to popup all over the place. I've fixed this particular instance. Canderson7 02:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks very much. Is there a better way to flag these for repair in the future? Jessamyn 14:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Questions about Disambiguation[edit]

I have been working on a disambiguation of Sue Miller, and it's my first disambiguation so I have a couple of questions. First, was I wrong to create a disambiguation page in the first place, since there are only two Sue Millers currently listed on Wikipedia? Second, how should I deal with the original, but far less known, Sue Miller? Should I rename the page to something along the lines of Sue Miller (agent) or Sue Miller (club owner), or just leave it as is? It seems odd to me that such a comparatively-unknown Sue Miller should get the direct, unambigious link while the bestselling author must make do with Sue Miller (author). I'm not really sure any one person should be allowed the direct, unambiguous link at all when there is more than one person with that name in the database. Can someone help me with the policy on this? Thanks... --Aaron 01:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the policy is, but I see nothing wrong with doing a move to either (agent) or (club owner), as long as you clean up the links to that page. Sue Miller (author) should stay as (author), IMHO. (This advice worth what you paid for it.)--SarekOfVulcan 01:43, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

When there are only two articles and one is primary and one isn't, there's no need for a disambig page. The more famous one gets the top spot without some descriptor in parantheses after and then a tiny line is added to the top redirecting anyone looking for the other thing. Of course the problem here is that someone put the unknown person in the top spot and the famous person in a lowly spot. Sue Miller (author) should be moved to just plain Sue Miller, which will require a filing at Wikipedia:Requested moves. I went ahead and moved the agent to Sue Miller (agent) (not club owner, because the article says she isn't a club owner anymore). DreamGuy 02:16, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Link spam[edit]

At Coin acceptor, I deleted Weavefuture's links to his own products as link spam. He put them back in, saying it isn't link spam, it's advanced technology. According to Google, it also appears to be virtually unknown technology. I haven't pushed the issue further because I wonder if we have a policy or precedents or something I can wave at him, or he might even be right. Art LaPella 00:58, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Reading Wikipedia:Spam might be helpful, but this seems like spam to me: It's a telling sign when somebody insists it's not spam, though. I'd just remove them.--Sean|Black 01:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
You mean like Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine?--SarekOfVulcan 01:05, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

adding a picture[edit]

how exactly do i add a picture to an edited page?

  • It is very easy, use for instance this code: Image:Yin yang.png|left|thumb|100px within double brackets [[ ]]. "Left" indicates the alignment and "100px" the size of the thumbnail. The image must be located in Wikimedia. Here you also can upload new images.

The code mentioned will generate this image:

Click on "edit" to the right of this section to see the code I used.

Regards, Dennis Nilsson. Dna-Dennis 02:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Delete Policy - just what am I doing wrong?[edit]

For the second time, I have tried and failed to correctly work out the delete policy (this time for the HMS Duke of Edinburgh article}. Makes me laugh because it seems so easy but I get lost half-way through the process. If anyone can get me untangled, please do, and I am really sorry for getting it wrong! Don't mean any serious harm, I just can't seem to get this right doktorb 11:20, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Noticeboard instead of a WikiProject?[edit]

I hope someone can help - I recently created Portal:Politics to make navigation easier and so forth, and also set up a corresponding WikiProject. However, I feel the subject is far too broad to merit its own Project, and would therefore like to just create a page or something like that for people who want to help maintain the Portal - so we have a members list and a list of tasks (keep featured content showcased, update the news, and so forth). I've seen notice boards for this sort of thing under the Wikipedia namespace, but would it be better from all points of view to just use the Portal talkpage? Once I've set up a place for Portal maintenance people I can go ahead and wipe the WikiProject. Thanks, --HighHopes (T)(+)(C)(E)(P) 09:30, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Clamshell Laptop[edit]

I came across Clamshell Laptop when I was going through the Zenith Electronics Corporation page for research on a different article. It's short, has atrocious spelling and grammar, doesn't really add to the topic (Laptop is the main article and already contains much more usable information), and is only linked to from an edit in the Zenith article which is not only equally bad, but factually inaccurate as well (apparently the author just started spewing there without reading the main laptop article first); since I plan on deleting that edit, and nothing else links to the page, I'm wondering if this is a candidate for speedy rather than a simple redirect. -lee 05:44, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Public domain[edit]

I'm seeking advice on whether an image of Ally Sloper would be in the public domain. The image in question is one I can personally scan from the Penguin Book of Comics, and is a detail of a cover of Ally Sloper's Half Holiday. My intention is to propose the use of this image for a barnstar for work on comics articles, since Sloper is recognised as the oldest recuring comics character. However I am sketchy on whether such an image would be in the public domain. The creator of Sloper, Charles Henry Ross, died in 1897 [10]. However, he had sold his rights to the character to Gilbert Dalziel in the early 1880's. Dalziel died in 1930 [11]. I am unsure of whether the rights were sold on by Dalziel, and also whether this affects the length of copyright, which in the United Kingdom is currently, I believe, life+70 years. Is this length taken from Ross, the creator, or from Dalziel or whomever he may have subsequently sold the rights to. I am inclined to believe it is Ross, since he established the right, and sold the right. If I am right, that would mean such an image is pulic domain, yes? I have searched for trademarks [12] and found none. Also, a related query, if such an image of Sloper is public domain, does anyone know why the British Library can claim copyright on the images they display of the character on their website. [13] Steve block talk 12:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Whether the image is under copyright depends upon when it was drawn. If it's from one fo the original old drawings it's certainly public domain by now, but a new drawing (being a new artistic work) of a public domain character would have a new copyright. Regarding the British Library, they claim copyrights on all sorts of things they don't have any rights to simply because they scanned the images in and offer them for sale. It's not uncommon for libraries and museums to try to claim copyrights on old images when they can earn money off of the process. DreamGuy 16:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
It's from 9th August 1884. So that means it's in the public domain I take it? Steve block talk 17:49, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm not going to say it's public domain everywhere (though it probably is), but Wikipedia runs off a server in the US and uses US laws and everything pre-1923 is definitely public domain (except things like post-1923 photos of 3-dimensional pre-1923 things, but this is a 2-dimensional thing, so you are good to go). DreamGuy 18:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Note that a large number of the British Library scans are copyrighted, despite coming from public-domain original material - British copyright law is absurdly generous on the matter of "new photography". (I hashed this out on wikien-l some months back over a scan they made of an old manuscript) Shimgray | talk | 15:51, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Posting a link to a specific spot on a page[edit]

I've searched the web but I cannot find a comprehensive site that clearly explains how to post a link to a specific spot on an external site. I'm trying to post to the section that mentions C.T. Bate on this page.

Any help will be much appreciated!

LadyEarth 12:06, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean by "post a link"? Do you mean create a link that directs someone to an external site, or do you want the link to be visible on the external site? If it's the latter, it's usually impossible(with the exception of Wikipedia). Anyway, where is Bates mentioned on the link you gave? I can't find any reference to him on that page. Superm401 | Talk 04:42, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I believe that what is wanted is to link to a specific anchor within the page. This can be done by including a "fragment identifier" at the end of the URI, but the page must already contain the desired anchor. For example, on the page in question each paragraph has an anchor such as: "<A NAME = "PARA666"></A>". One could link directly to that paragraph by ending the URI with "G008.htm#PARA666". (Wikipedia always allows linking to specific sections of articles by using the section title as the fragment ID.) However, the fact that the information on C.T. Bates has already vanished from the page suggests that any link to that page would be evanescent. You can read more about URI fragment IDs in the W3C document on the Architectural Principles of the World Wide Web. --DavidConrad 01:51, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
The "fragment identifier" name is quite misleading, because the entire page is still loaded and visible. I've always heard this just called an anchor name. Superm401 | Talk 03:32, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
The name is C.T. Bate: --Patrick 16:24, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Singular Pronoun Policy or Guideline[edit]

Do we currently have a policy or guideline on what the preferred singular pronoun indicating indefinite actual gender is, and, if not, do we have one on when it is appropriate to replace one usage with another? (If so, I apologise for wasting time and space here; just let me know where I can read it.) I personally believe that the traditional "he" and its inflected forms are proper for a variety of reasons. (Not the least of which is that I find "newer" forms to be very insulting as they create the implication that those of us who retain the linguistic masculine in this context are either indicating only males or else are sexist in our use of language. Note that this extends even to readings of Dickens, Poe, and so forth, where it impunes highly unfairly of them.) Without getting into the argument, however, I'm perfectly content not to go on a crusade of correcting "he or she", "he/she", etc. as long as those on the other side of this question behave likewise. I am finding that this is not the case. Savant1984 03:52, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I think we do not, nor are we likely ever to. Archived discussions are here and here. Obviously, and unfortunately, this is the sort of thing both sides are willing to make jihad over. - Nunh-huh 04:01, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the archived discussions, Nunh-huh. I really think this is something that'll eventually have to find some sort of codified resolution that doesn't require anyone to concede on principle, though. Otherwise, I don't see any future but either revert wars or whichever position abstains from them simply de facto losing the argument in terms of actual content. At the very least we need a convention about when it's appropriate to change existing usages in articles. Savant1984 04:20, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't think a convention is undesirable. Just unachievable! <g> - Nunh-huh 05:07, 13 November 2005 (UTC)