# Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 87

## Reference formatting change?

Why did we need to change cite.php to use letters instead of numbers? Such a change messes up formatting for many notes, such as seen in St. Anthony's Catholic Church (Padua, Ohio) — unlike when numbers were used for <ref> citations, you can't easily distinguish the content comment (following the first occurrence of "Padua" in the text) from one of the citations to the first reference. Nyttend (talk) 15:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

A mistake surely The inline cites are lettered and the references numnbered. Thincat (talk) 15:06, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

((edit conflict))

This is what I mean...

Okay, I've only just realised this, but apparently inline citations using <ref> now result in letters being displayed, sort of like this[a] when it used to be like this.[2] I don't really like the change, but what the hell, I can live with it. However, when using {{reflist}} to display the references, they still display with numbers to refer to the citations, even though the inline bits are now letters. So either the change to the inline citations needs to be reverted, or reflist and associated templates need updating. And can anyone please enlighten me on when this change was made? Thanks. Strange Passerby (talkcontribsEditor review) 15:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I just noticed the change as well. Anyone know where this was discussed / if it was discussed? Jujutacular talk 15:12, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
It's back to normal now. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:12, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Indeed. I'd really like to know where the actual change was implemented (for my own curiosity). Jujutacular talk 15:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Weirdly, it seems to be so on some pages but not all – Sam Oldham, seen in my screenshot above, still shows the letter format of cites, while another of "my" articles, List of 1952 Winter Olympics medal winners, appears to show numbers for cites... Strange Passerby (talkcontribsEditor review) 15:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I see numbers on Sam Oldham. Try WP:BYPASS, failing that, WP:PURGE. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Good idea; purging worked. Although like Jujutacular I'd like to know where and why it was changed... Strange Passerby (talkcontribsEditor review) 15:20, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
This is my fault. I was working on the feature described below and the documentation in bugzilla was sketchy. It looks like MediaWiki:Cite link label group- changes the default labels for all in-text cite links, nut just the "footnote" group as I was lead to believe. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:56, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Added an editnotice to reduce the chances of my gaff being repeated. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Weird. That page (since moved to MediaWiki:Cite link label group-footnote) doesn't seem to be part of the list of system messages. Edokter (talk) — 16:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Now at @alpha per discussion below. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
How is AllMessages populated? MediaWiki:Cite link label group pages are not defined by default. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

## animated gif not playing

I uploaded an animated gif which plays fine here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GWM_HahnEcho.gif

...but only a static image is shown on the actual Wikipedia page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_echo

I find the same behaviour in Firefox 3.6.3 and IE8. GavinMorley (talk) 17:04, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing it's too large. When GIFs reach 12.5 million pixels (I think) total, only a single frame is presented in the thumbnail. 640x480 x 256 frames is over 78 million pixels. It's a known issue. --Golbez (talk) 17:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
That's right, however, it's only when scaling. So if the size of the image is set to 640px, then it will still animate fine (hence why it animates fine on the file page). You could also re-upload with the gif scaled to the desired size (400px). - Kingpin13 (talk) 17:23, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! all sorted now. GavinMorley (talk) 23:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Any chance of thumbnailing animated svgs as animated gifs in the distant future? ―cobaltcigs 08:10, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Is the Vector skin faster than Monobook due to caching?

Monobook seems to be getting slower every day, while when testing in Vector, things seem faster. Are pages cached based on what skin you're using—meaning each article would have a different cache for each skin—or are they only based on a user's settings (math generation preferences, etc.)? Meaning, would pages load faster if I switched from Monobook to Vector (since Vector is the default skin)? Looking at the page sources, it looks like the main difference between Vector and Monobook is the sidebar, but I don't think that's part of the cache—is it? I did manage to eventually find a few pages in Vector that the server choked on, though, requiring 30 seconds or more to process, so maybe I'm best to just stick with Monobook for now. Gary King (talk · scripts) 19:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Did you test both skins while being logged out? You seem to have lots of code in your monobook.js. Plus, this edit makes your common.js (now a default personal JS file: check preferences) load the second time. — AlexSm 20:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah I tested both skins logged out. The JS is not affecting load times since they come after the HTML has loaded. By "load time" I'm talking about the server processing time, where it says at the bottom of every page "Served by srv156 in 0.531 secs.", it'll sometimes be 30 seconds or more. Also, yeah I'll rename common.js to something else; I explicitly added it again since I had a JS error and couldn't find where it was, until I finally realized that common.js was being loaded automatically. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:16, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
The more something is used, the better it will be cached (the cache is actually many caches, SQL, parserfunctions, wikicode rendering, interface rendering, squid (page) caching ). Since usage of monobook is declining, it is logical that less pages will be served from caches (esp from the squid caches for non-logged in requests). HOWEVER. when you are logged in, you never hit the squid caches anyways, so all steps AFTER building the article content, will never be fully cached. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Why isn't content cached by Squid for logged in users? Squid caches the entire page, not only the area within bodyContent, so it can only serve the same thing to non-logged in users? And so, you're saying I won't see a performance improvement if I switched to Vector? Gary King (talk · scripts) 19:42, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes, that's exactly how Squid works. Every logged in user will see a different final page, due to it including their username in the top-right if nothing else. That's why we don't show anon users' IP addresses on article pages even though that feature is available in MediaWiki. MW is configured such that all logged-out users would be shown exactly the same HTML for a given page, so it doesn't matter whether that page is generated by MediaWiki running on the Apache servers, or served directly from a cache by the squids. Happymelon 18:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Gadgets stopped working again / Page jumping

My gadgets have stopped working again (clock/purge, popups, blackscreen) also the predictive search thing has stopped. They do work when I'm in the edit screen. DuncanHill (talk) 23:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

What browser/version are you using? Have you tried purging your cache? {{Nihiltres|talk|edits|}} 01:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Monobook, Chrome, WinXP. Will give that a try. DuncanHill (talk) 01:18, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Purging seems to have fixed it for now, but it is happening very often since the "up"grade. DuncanHill (talk) 01:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Ditto. If even happens after not just purging, but restarting the computer. In fact, it tends to happen there more frequently, at least for me with Safari on a Mac. As far as a non-technical person like me can tell, it's the slow loading of Javascript. DGG ( talk ) 02:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm on Safari on a Mac, and I haven't seen a problem like this at all yet… {{Nihiltres|talk|edits|}} 03:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Clearing your cache will most likely resolve this, from how you guys have explained it. Restarting your computer or browser shouldn't change anything, though. It does seem to sound like perhaps that the JavaScript is taking too long to load. Since 1.17, JS is loaded after the page rather than before, which allows the page to load and then the browser loads the JS, which is why you might be viewing a page with no JS functionality enabled—because it's still loading. I suppose that's better than staring at a blank page waiting for the JS to load first, though. Gary King (talk · scripts) 04:44, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Purging your cache should in theory make this worse because all the scripts have to be completely reloaded from the server. When I purge, it takes an extra 5 to 10 seconds for my scripts to run. So why is purging helping in this case? There must be something we don't understand here. By the way, my purges were all for debugging purposes, I haven't actually seen this problem since we escaped the HTML 5 black hole. —UncleDouggie (talk) 05:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
JavaScript does seem to be making Wikipedia browsing very slow recently. I just turned it off altogether and it makes such a difference, that I'm half tempted to leave it off for Wikipedia, even though it ruins the display of a number of things. - Kingpin13 (talk) 06:23, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't see RefTools when I'm editing, maybe all the gadgets are failing for me? I'm on Safari/Mac. Tried emptying cache, no change. First Light (talk) 07:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Purging works for me most of the time, anyhow. I suppose that's mostly after I edit a script, though, so purging works well since it reloads everything from scratch. It only needs to be done once, and yes it takes longer to load, but at least the scripts do eventually load. JavaScript then loads faster after that, as it should. Gary King (talk · scripts) 17:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
• Add a "Purge" tab to the top of the page, which purges the page's cache when followed.
I've not yet come across a situation when I wanted to go for "*" (purge) only to find that it was missing, but sometimes the lead section  link doesn't appear: pressing F5 to reload the page causes it to show, and I've not needed to use any methods more drastic than that. Windows XP, Firefox 3.6.13, Monobook. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
It sounds like FF sometimes isn't getting a response from the server on the load of your last script. This could be load related or a bug in ResourceLoader. It might be useful for you to install the Firebug add-on, but you would need to keep firebug open in a background window until the problem occurs so you can see what got loaded without first needing to let Firebug do it's own reload. I'm not positive, but perhaps you will see an entry for the script in the Firebug script list, but there won't be any content when you select it. I haven't personally used Firebug for this purpose before, so perhaps others have some thoughts. —UncleDouggie (talk) 22:47, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Yikes, it just jumped to the end of the window on me when I saved the last change, just as you reported down in another thread. I'm doing this edit with Firebug running to see if I can repeat it. —UncleDouggie (talk) 22:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
The JS loading sequence (and speed) does seem relevant--it first loads as it would without the javascript gadgets, and then redraws the page with them. This is very disconcerting. DGG ( talk ) 22:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
That time I made sure not to touch anything after clicking Save. It reloaded the page, jumped to the very end of the window, and 3 seconds later jumped back to this section. The previous time I probably scrolled the mouse while it was at the end of the window, which may have canceled the jump back to here. My guess is that this sequence has always happened, but prior to ResourceLoader the display of the end of the page was hidden from us and therefore immune to the jump back being canceled by hitting the mouse. Trying it again now... —UncleDouggie (talk) 22:56, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
This time it initially showed the proper section, which may have been from cache it was so fast, jumped to the end a few seconds later, I scrolled the mouse slightly, and it didn't jump back. —UncleDouggie (talk) 22:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Jumped to end, I moved my mouse without scrolling, and it jumped back to this section. BTW, FF 3.6.13, OS X 10.6.6, but I have just about every platform if needed. —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:01, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── More clues. When I edit a section 15% of the way down this page, it jumps the equivalent of 0.75 screens in my window and then returns to the correct location if I don't scroll the mouse. The text portion of my window is currently 9.5 inches. When I edit a section 50% of the way down the page, it jumps 2.25 screens. When I make an edit 75% of the way down the page, it jumps by 3.5 screen. When I edit this section, near the end of the page, it jumps by a full 4 screens, which is all the way to the end of the page in my case. Conclusion: The amount of the jump is directly proportional to the location of the section being edited. Next question: Is the jump dependent on the total length of the page or just the relative position? —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

A null edit to archive 85 of this page, done 50% of the way down a 60 screen page, caused a jump of only 0.75 screens. 25% of the way down that page is a collapsed box that is 1 screen tall. I don't understand the 0.75 vs. 1.0, but I'm going to overlook that for now. On this page, the FAQ fully expanded is 0.75 screens tall, exactly equal to the jump I observed with my 15% edit. There is another collapsed box 1.5 screens tall before the page midpoint, which explains the 2.25 screen jump. And yet another one 1.25 screens tall to explain the 3.5 screen jump. I didn't see anything else to explain the 4 screen jump, but there's enough of a pattern here to conclude that the jumps are all caused by collapsed elements. And there's probably not a damn thing we can do about it in a ReourceLoader world, short of getting the devs to move the CSS back up to the top. —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Tests with Safari 5.0.3: Following an edit, it first shows the very top of the page for 3 seconds, then jumps to the correct section, and finally it usually backs up some amount. Editing 15% of the way down, there was no visible jump back, but the screen did a very fast refresh, almost like a glitch where it normally jumps back. Editing 50% of the way down this page, the jump back was 0.17 screens. Editing 85% of the way down, the jump back was 0.25 screens. Very different behavior from FF 3.6.13. It will probably be different in every browser we try. —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:59, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

UncleDouggie: please stop making tests edits to this page. First, real null edits (which are not the edits you're making) would be enough because they show the same behavior. Second, if you do need to make test edits please to in on your own subpage. — AlexSm 00:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I used the wrong term. They were dummy edits and I did a preview on each one to verify that there was no change, including to the line spacing. Nevertheless, I have reverted the whole batch out of the utmost caution. <eggonface>It turns out that a true null edit does the exact same jumping! I didn't even think to try it because I figured that loading the new version of the page was somehow causing the problem.</eggonface> While I normally do test in my own userspace, there seemed to be something special about this page that wasn't as predictable elsewhere, although with the benefit of hindsight it is possible to reproduce the failure. —UncleDouggie (talk) 01:09, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Email not functioning on commons?

I've gone to email someone on commons, and I got the following red letter notice: Unknown error in PHP's mail() function. Is this standard? Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:20, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

It worked for me when I mailed myself at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/PrimeHunter. Does it still happen? Is it only when mailing a specific user? Does it happen when you click Send or when you try to load the mail form? Which browser? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

No, it only happens with commons:User:Noblestrawberry. It worked fine when I tried to mail myself. Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I have tried http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Noblestrawberry. I see a normal mail form but when I click Send I get the same error message as you. I have tried mailing at Commons from my alternate account to my own main account and that worked fine. Maybe there is something hinky with the email address stored for Noblestrawberry. Here at the English Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Noblestrawberry says "This user has not specified a valid e-mail address." PrimeHunter (talk) 04:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking that too. The email address is probably invalid, which the PHP expertly catches, but the Mediawiki software glibly moves over. Someone or other should probably notify the devs. Magog the Ogre (talk) 08:24, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Noblestrawberry gives the same error when clicking Send, so it's apparently not a Commons problem. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Are there any devs around that might take a look at the email address and give us a hint of where the formatting might be wrong? Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Question about the IPA-English interface

Sorry to post this here. I want to note a problem with the IPA (English) character-insertion menu (toolbar?) at the bottom of the WP edit field, but I don't understand the inner workings of the interface well enough to know where the code for this is, or how to suggest a change. Basically, the low-back phonemes were clearly designed by a British speaker and are insufficient for General American (GA), as the GA phoneme ɑ is missing. The closest in the menu are the two British-only phonemes ɒ and ɑː, neither of which exists in GA. (A similar thing applies to the missing GA phoneme ɔ, although in this case the British substitute ɔː is slightly less bad, since ɔ was historically a long vowel.) Benwing (talk) 04:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Ask this on the talk page for MediaWiki:Edittools. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:40, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Value #expr: 1.2.3.4.5.00 is 1.2

Are there any plans to change parser function #expr to treat multiple dots as being an invalid number? Currently, the value of 1.2.3.4.5.00 in wiki-math is:

{{#expr: 1.2.3.4.5.00}} → 1.2
{{#expr: 1.2.3.4 + 100}} → 101.2
{{#expr: 1.2.3,4.5.00}} → Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character ",".

I was thinking 1.2.3.4 might generate an "expression error" because I was planning to detect a European million "1.000.000" (#expr value 1.0) as invalid, to be reformatted as "1,000,000". However, I realize "one man's bug is another man's neat feature" and we often use bizarre MediaWiki bugs to create kludge features all the time, to provide faster results for our readers. Perhaps someone already treats a numeric date "2.26.2011" as 2.26, so they might think dropping ".2011" is a neat feature of #expr. Meanwhile, we have Template:Valid to check if numbers are valid:

{{Valid| number= --12345.00}} → false {{Valid| number= 12345.00 }} → true
{{Valid| number=1.2.3.4.5.00}} → false {{Valid| number=1.000.000}} → false

So, {Valid} realizes the number is invalid, and I could use similar logic to detect "1.000.000" for reformatting. There's no hurry on this, just curious. -Wikid77 08:30, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

## Page layout problems

Hi, in http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Georgia_and_the_South_Sandwich_Islands&oldid=415969089 I see a large blank space breaking the lead section (specifcally, between "The total land area of the territory is 3,903 square kilometres (1,507 sq mi)" and "There is no native population on any of the islands" is a whole screen's worth of blank space). I know that the alignment of text with picture is what's causing it, and I know various things to try that will fix it. The puzzle is that I see problems very similar to this over and over and over again in many different Wikipedia articles -- I mean, like hundreds of times -- often (though not in this case) that have gone uncorrected for a long time. I think I asked about this one before, and it was suggested that different browsers lay out the page differently, so that many people did not see the problem. However, my recollection is a bit hazy. What I would like to do is establish again whether this problem is browser specific. I am using IE 8. Could others take a look in different browsers and report what they see? 86.176.210.29 (talk) 12:59, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no gap in Firefox 3.6.13, Google Chrome 9 or Opera 11.01, but in IE7 the gap is there. Specifically, since the image File:South Georgia Photo by Sascha Grabow.jpg is right aligned, it is pushed down the page by the infobox. The paragraph beginning "There is no native population on any of the islands" is in the wikicode just after this image, and IE insists on vertically-aligning that text with the upper edge of the image, so the gap occirs immediately before this. The easiest fix is to align that image left instead of right. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I would like to propose that this problem is investigated further by the technical guys to see whether Wikipedia's code generation can be tweaked so that all common browsers display the same thing in such cases. My guess is that in many cases that I've encountered, the person who made the edit was using a non-IE browser and had no idea that it broke the layout in IE. This is probably why such layout errors are so common. 86.176.210.29 (talk) 14:05, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
• Major typesetting problem: I will write a short essay "WP:Avoiding text gaps" to help people be aware of the text-gap problems and ways to avoid them. This is very frustrating because "all" IE browsers (at least from IE6 to IE8) show a large text-gap beside nearby non-stacked images, on wider windows. Plus, some people deliberately use CSS options which cause those large, awkward text-gaps, deliberately ignoring (yes) the trashy affect on IE browsers. If an image-box were set to float around the text, then the images would tend to amass into a page-wide gallery, so that is only a partial solution. However, using {{floatbox|image}} might be a very quick fix when adjusting only 1 image. For that article ("South Sandwich Islands"), I used "|thumb|left" followed by word-joining {{j|There is no}} to no-wrap that phrase for avoiding 1-word-per-line wrapping after a left-side image on narrow windows. I agree that the problem appears in hundreds of articles, and is probably the most trashy typesetting glitch for readers using IE: those large text-gaps make Wikipedia seem extremely unstable on IE browsers. -Wikid77 15:33, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

## Too small font in secure server while using Mozilla Firefox

I'm experiencing shrinked font-size in secure server in Mozilla Firefox 3.6.13. This issue does not happen in my Internet Explorer 8. Is there any problem in my browser or server, or MediaWiki CSS? It happens Korean Wikipedia, Wikimedia Meta-Wiki, Wikimedia Commons as well as English language Wikipedia. Best regards. Kwj2772 (talk) 14:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

You probably (accidentally) set your font-size in Mozilla with (ctrl-scrollwheel). Mozilla remembers fontsize settings per site. Simply reset to 100% while you are on the secure server. Edokter (talk) — 15:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
That works. Thanks! Kwj2772 (talk) 15:51, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

## Account

Hello, I am participant of the Russian Wikipedia. I tried to register in the English-language Wikipedia under the name "Palaiologos", but it turned out that this account has already been there. But at the same time, if you type User: Palaiologos in the search engine of Wikipedia, it appears that no such page. Moreover, information on the disposal of this page is not in the deletion log. However, despite all this, I can not register under that name. What should I do? May I usurp this account? --90.188.224.108 (talk) 15:10, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

The creation of the user account does not create the userpage, and it is possible to create a "userpage" where the corresponding account is not registered. At a glance, it looks like you should certainly be able to usurp the account; see WP:CHUU for instructions. Anomie 15:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
The existence of a user page is not the same as the existence of a username. This page shows the username is not registered here. Best thing to do is to 'globalise' you account on ru.wikipedia.org, then you will automatically be registered here. Edokter (talk) — 15:31, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
This problem has appeared at me just when I created a global account.--90.188.224.108 (talk) 15:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
The username does exist here. It doesn't appear in the global user manager though, because it's not the same user. It has to be usurped. Reach Out to the Truth 16:18, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Look at the bottom of Special:CentralAuth/Palaiologos: el.wikipedia.org and en.wikipedia.org are listed as "not attached". Anomie 20:49, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
90.188.224.108 has already made a request for the English at Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I have applied for usurpation. --90.188.224.108 (talk) 09:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## More Greek letters in TeX

Wikipedia's limited version of TeX is immensely useful in mathematics articles. In particular one can type any and all of the 24 letters of the standard Greek alphabet:

${\displaystyle \alpha \beta \gamma \delta \epsilon \zeta \eta \theta \iota \kappa \lambda \mu \nu \xi \mathrm {o} \pi \rho \sigma \tau \upsilon \varphi \chi \psi \omega .\,}$

However, one cannot (as far as I can tell so far) type the lower-case stigma or koppa. These were used in ancient Greek numerals, and in Wikipedia articles that need to mention ancient Greek arithmetic, they would be useful. For example, the 2nd-century trigonometric table on page 48 of this pdf file uses both stigma and koppa. I think these can be found in some LaTex packages. I would like to see them available for use in Wikipedia articles. Can someone here help with that? Michael Hardy (talk) 23:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

It looks like you need to load the babel package with the greek option in math/texutil.ml (like this: Wikipedia talk:Texvc#babel package), then add the TeX characters and HTML entities to the list of characters in texutil.ml. Technically that's probably not a big issue. The question is whether you can get that change accepted by the developers. So far only the AMS packages are supported as optional modules in texvc. They might dislike the idea of putting anything else there, even if it's optional. --Morn (talk) 10:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
P.S. Apparently it's not as simple. I have patch here but it only works when you render the TeX to HTML via texvc. If you try to render it through LaTeX, you get:

LaTeX Warning: Command \qoppa invalid in math mode on input line 8.

Do such packages work within Wikipedia articles? Michael Hardy (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by that--they work in LaTeX. And Wikipedia uses LaTeX and texvc to render its TeX. Unfortunately, the markup is all in TeX math mode, so babel doesn't work there as it seems. --Morn (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

LaTeX Warning: Command \stigma invalid in math mode on input line 8.

It looks to me as if those babel-supplied characters don't work in math mode at all, which is a major bummer because Wikipedia's TeX is math mode-based. --Morn (talk) 14:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Navbox appearance has changed

The navbox Template:Nanotechnology and some related navboxes suddenly started displaying wide bars to the left and/or right of the navbox, depending on which browser you're using (I have seen this on both IE8 and Chrome). See this version for an example. The navbox contains two nested tables, and it looks like the width of the outer table is being interpreted incorrectly, causing the change in display. This change in appearence occured within the last few days, and there have been no edits in this time, and all of the pervious versions in the history are now displaying these bars. It looks like the problem is fixed by either setting the outer table width to 0, or removing class="infobox" from the outer table, but I'm curious as to the source of this display change—perhaps related to the 1.17 rollout. Antony–22 (talkcontribs) 07:09, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Update: Based on my limited sleuthing abilities, I think this diff may be the culprit. It looks like it is setting the default infobox width to 22em which seems to match the width I'm seeing in the broxen navboxes. Antony–22 (talkcontribs) 07:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Setting the "width: auto" also appears to work. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 07:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## no request for email confirmation

• I added an email address two days ago, but rec'd no request for email confirmation. I double-checked; email address I provided is OK. – Peacock.Lane 07:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Does your email software have a spam filter? If so, is it being over-vigilant? I use gmail (aka googlemail), and sometimes legitamate mails end up in the spam box. --12:18, 27 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redrose64 (talkcontribs)
• Thanks.. I thought of that, and checked. No luck... – Peacock.Lane 12:27, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
See Help:Email confirmation. Can you try another email address? PrimeHunter (talk) 13:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Missing "edit" thread tabs on a Project discussion Page

I seem to be missing "edits" on individual threads on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. counties. Don't seem to have this problem anywhere else. Any ideas? Student7 (talk) 19:21, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

It stems from your transclusion of Portal:United States/Projects/Popular pages. Maybe stop transcluding it and just link to it instead? I didn't read the surrounding discussion - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Correct. Deep inside the subtemplates of that, specifically, inside Portal:Box-header, there is a __NOEDITSECTION__ (see Help:Magic words#Behavior switches). It would appear that this is configurable: amending Portal:United States/box-header to supply the parameter |EDIT=yes, as in
{{Portal:box-header | title={{{1}}}
|editpage={{{2}}}
|EDIT=yes
|border=#BF0A30             <!-- This is the color of the borders around  Box Sections -->

will restore the section edit links. Note that the parameter name is all-capitals. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:32, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

## Commons image details not transcluded to Wikipedia?

It appears the details of images from the Wikimedia Commons will not appear when I view it on Wikipedia. If it was intentional, then it was probably a bad idea. mechamind90 19:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Ditto. I'm having the same issue too. You aren't alone. BobAmnertiopsisChatMe! 19:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I have made the people in irc tech channel aware of it. They seem to work on it. ;) Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 20:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Seems that there aren't many sysadmins online. Created a ticket bugzilla:27767. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:44, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Works for me Which images are giving trouble? --Redrose64 (talk) 20:53, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Am seeing this as well in all commons hosted images, the images themselves display but the info templates etc don't. E.g. File:Russian ePassport.jpg does not show the info and licensing boxes as on commons:File:Russian ePassport.jpg. Nanonic (talk) 21:12, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Ah, now that the specific problem has been described, I also don't see the description or licensing which should be between the "This is a file from" box and the revision history. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Yep, I have the same issue, too. Everything shows up fine at Commons, but no licensing/description here. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 22:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
For me the images also take a while to load after I click on them. →GƒoleyFour← 22:22, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
It takes about 25 seconds between clicking on an image and the image description page being displayed. Presumably that's the timeout for metadata requests from Commons. --Morn (talk) 00:36, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Fixed "Tim Starling 2011-02-28 04:46:42 UTC Should be fixed now." in the above mentioned bugzilla:27767. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saibo (talkcontribs)

## My watchlist

Before I take this to Bugzilla, I thought to bring it up here, in case it might be controversial, or too difficult to implement. I would like to have the ability to note items on "My watchlist" as mark as unread in case I want to keep them on that particular list. This would imply the "automatic" marking them as read so they would drop off the list. An example might be the effect in an email reader. There we have the ability to keep a msg by indicating that it is "unread" (even if we've read it, but we want to keep it as unread). It would really be great to be able to clear the clutter of items on a particular watchlist that I've already checked and do not need to see again (without removing them from the main watchlist list, so that I would still be able to see a new edit). Perhaps include a little checkbox next to each item that can be checked if we want to keep it on that particular list (mark as unread)?  — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX )  00:23, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea. Helder 00:29, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I like the idea too but this is Wikipedia so good luck with that idea. Everything here is controversial and difficult to implement. --Kumioko (talk) 00:39, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank both of you very much! This is probably an item for the overworked devs at bugzilla. I just didn't want them to turn me down if this has already been tried. Maybe some of the techs here can tell me if there's an open bug?  — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX )  11:58, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
If I understand you correctly, my Desktop Watchlist could do what you want, if you use Windows. But it does it in reverse – you manually mark edits as read. Svick (talk) 15:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes, thank you! Your app would do the trick, I think. I would like it used by Wikipedia, so it could be used across op. systems. Have you requested its WP usage?  — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX )  21:49, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
No, I haven't. You can try adding a feature request to bugzilla, but I'm not sure if it's going to be successful. Svick (talk) 18:29, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

With ll the new "goodies" the edit box loads really slowly (pages are served slowly enough as it is) I can focus on it and type a few words (sometimes all I need is "Subst:welcome ~~ ~~", only to have it redraw itself to put all the fancy gew-gaws in. Can they be supressed? Rich Farmbrough, 22:20, 23 February 2011 (UTC).

Sure, just pop over to Special:Preferences > Editing > Usability features > Enable enhanced editing toolbar :) - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:26, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, done. Strangely, I had already visited that box. Maybe it was auto-ticked for me? Rich Farmbrough, 16:43, 24 February 2011 (UTC).
I would like to suggest that somebody install here a workaround for bugzilla:11130 which is used on pt.wikibooks to stop sending the HTML of MediaWiki:Edittools for people who can not use it at all: those who can't use JavaScript.
This kind of modification was previously suggested in some places:
This probably would save some bytes when editing pages. Helder 00:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Um... English Wikipedia switched to JavaScript-based Edittols a long time ago, what you see in MediaWiki:Edittools is just plain text that was put there intentonally for people who have JavaScript disabled. Also, I'm almost sure the original poster complains about new "beta" toolbar. — AlexSm 02:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I see the problem here as well. First, the enhanced toolbar "suddenly" applies line-height:1.5em after the page is loaded; if this change is really necessary the CSS should be sent to browser before the edit box. Second, enhanced toolbar makes edit box to lose its focus on load which is annoying if you're already typing something; this doesn't happen with the old toolbar. — AlexSm 02:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Looks like this was reported about a day ago as mediazilla:27620. — AlexSm 02:52, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The methodology to get rid of this wretched "enhancement" to the edit box really needs to be more obvious. This functionality downgrade has been nothing but problems for me since Wikipedia apparently changed it to default to being on (I use IE7)... only tonight did I figure out how to get rid of it, through blind guesswork in my preferences. Townlake (talk) 05:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

## Commons temporarily down?

Yes, I notice the thread just above this one, questioning whether details from Commons images aren't coming through. I'm having trouble accessing Commons: if I go to any URL that begins with http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ I get one of those "Internet Explorer has stopped working" messages, which I generally receive only when I'm at a page that's somehow broken. Any idea what's going wrong? I'm running version 8.0.6001.19019. Nyttend (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Commons works for me in Firefox 3.6.13 and IE 8.0.7601.17514. The display of Commons image descriptions on this Wikipedia is still broken. PleaseStand (talk) 03:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Commons is FUBAR again! Any commons page I try to get to fails to load. The times I'm lucky, it doesn't shut down IE ompletely and I end up with a page that displays:
We were unable to return you to wikimedia.org.
Internet Explorer has stopped trying to restore this website. It appears that the website continues to have a problem.
What you can do:
When a website causes a failure or crash, Internet Explorer attempts to restore the site. It stops after two tries to avoid an endless loop.

Please fix and leave the shut-downing to Ghaddafi.... André Kritzinger 11:14, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Exactly the same thing is happening to me. Arriva436talk/contribs 13:12, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Some crosslinking: commons:Commons:Village_pump#Commons_not_working_with_IE, de:Wikipedia:Fragen_zur_Wikipedia#Browserabsturz. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 13:41, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Bryan identified this (Common.js) as the cause of our IE crashtest. Clear your cache if it still does not work! Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 14:12, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Man, this is getting stale. Wikimedia worked fine most of the evening, but now whoever the geek is that's fooling around with Internet Explorer users has struck again. And I and a gazillion other contributors must sit here twiddling thumbs instead of being productive. André Kritzinger 23:36, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
It was crashing some/many/all? Internet Explorers again between 2011-02-28T21:34:44 and 2011-02-28T23:26:30 (UTC). See the history of Common.js. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 01:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

If you have any issues again best report it at commons:Commons:Village_pump#Commons_not_working_with_IE, again. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 01:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

## JavaScript Deprecations

In addition to the impending turn on of HTML 5 that crippled us last week, there are a large number of JavaScript identifiers scheduled to be deprecated in phases over an unknown time period. I've setup a method at mw:ResourceLoader/JavaScript_Deprecations that can be used to automatically search for these identifiers in existing code. My preference is to eliminate all such identifiers when updating updating code to prevent future failures. For those using calls to User:AzaToth/morebits.js, a fully compliant version is being developed as part of the ongoing Twinkle updates, but it's not ready for prime time yet. Unfortunately, it's not possible to salvage the Wikipedia.wiki class due to a fundamental incompatibly with HTML 5, so all code using that class will need to be updated in the same manner as we're doing in the Twinkle overhaul. The new User:AzaToth/morebits.js will be named User:AzaToth/twinklecommon.js so as to not immediately break anyone's code. However, that minor reprieve will only last until the HTML 5 switch is thrown once again. —UncleDouggie (talk) 03:31, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

As mentioned, these now-deprecated variables, objects and functions are not removed and will continue to work for a yet-to-be-announced period of time. Before being fully removed they will first be put in a quarantined object (mw.legacy), so that if by the time they are removed an update has still not been made by the developer, someone else without knowledge of the script can upgrade it and replace all calls with the mw.legacy prefix, this has been planned as a last-minute stop-gap/fail safe to identify problems and provide a smoother transition and more time to find future alternatives.
I'd like to say once again that if there are any issues, or missing successor methods or where help is needed in migration, feel free to ask at mw:Talk:ResourceLoader/Migration_guide_(users) or mw:Talk:ResourceLoader/JavaScript Deprecations. You may also ping TrevorParscal, RoanKattouw or me, Krinkle in #mediawiki connect when available for direct messaging. Thanks, Krinkle (talk) 10:11, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that when some of the gadgets (I'm thinking Twinkle but probably anything that uses scripting) alter the way pages are displayed, there's a delay between when the page loads and the script kicks in. The result is that the page momentarily appears unaltered (for example, displaying the talk page tab as "discussion" rather than "talk"). This makes the loading process annoyingly jumpy. Is there some workaround to make the page not display until the scripts are finished? Feezo (Talk) 11:01, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I have exactly the same problems with the tabs. All my user scripts (except Twinkle) have stopped functioning as well. Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:11, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Same thing here. --Highspeedrailguy (talk) 16:14, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
I understand the jumpiness, it's a fact of life with ResourceLoader right now. I've had much better success running FF 4.0b12. It's fast enough that the jumps aren't as noticeable. I don't get the scripting problem. Are Highspeedrailguy's scripts not running either? Mine work. —UncleDouggie (talk) 01:24, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

## Cursor problem with "Hidden" template

When the pointer is hovered over the "expand" link created by a "Hidden template", the cursor takes the form of an up-and-down arrow rather than the pointing-index-finger form I would expect: example below. I am using Firefox/Windows 7. JohnCD (talk) 11:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

"Hidden" example
Hidden text line 1
Hidden text line 2
Same with IE9 and Monobook skin. I don't see it as a problem, but it is different. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
See User talk:Pdfpdf#"Hidden" not working? - that user has a more serious problem with IE - only the title of the hidden box shows, with no link to expand it. I can reproduce that with IE8/Vector; Chrome is OK apart from the funny cursor. JohnCD (talk) 12:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
I've temporarily reverted the change that was recently done to the Hidden template which has fixed the issue. -- WOSlinker (talk)
That is the new collapsible code (since reverted). It needs some tweaking. Too bad admins can't hack the code anymore. The 'up-down' arrow you see is the new cursor associated with expanding and collapsing. The actual CSS cursors assigned are 's-resize' and 'n-resize' (arrow down and arrow up), but Windows does not have these cursors and substitutes both with the up-down resize arrow. The code could use URL (downloadable) icons, however, Commons does not allow uploading .cur files, which is the only cursor format supported by all major borwsers. Edokter (talk) — 14:15, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

## Heavy use of User:GregU/dashes.js results in "this wiki has a problem"

Heavy use of User:GregU/dashes.js results in "this wiki has a problem". --Highspeedrailguy (talk) 16:08, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• What do you mean? I'm using it fine. /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 17:57, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

## Tilde may mess up ref name

Resolved

If you look here, I'm almost positive all I did was copy and paste the ref name to the second use of the reference. When I first put the source in the article, I didn't include the tilde because I didn't know how, but in a subsequent edit, someone added the tilde. I figured it was only right to put the man's name in the ref name properly.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:37, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. --Highspeedrailguy (talk) 19:45, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I don't generally think to use quotes, but I rarely have that problem.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:50, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Tweaked the help page to include name rules. -— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:55, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
If the name= attribute values are supposed to follow HTML4 rules, then quotes are mandatory unless the value consists entirely of Latin letters (A-Z, a-z), digits 0-9, the period and the minus sign (keyboard hyphen, not Unicode minus). I don't know if our Wikicode parser follows the same rule though. If in doubt: quote it. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:02, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes— the ref tags create an HTML id. This is also documented at WP:REFNAME in an overly verbose manner. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

## Recent Javascript changes

Howdy.

So, I was just alerted by a user that my igloo script had suddenly stopped working - and indeed, it has. I have tracked the problem down to the fact that innerHTML no longer seems to be defined for the DOM returned by my DOMParser - when it most definitely was before. Have there been any recent changes that would particularly affect this, or alternatively, does anyone know how to fix it?

This could possibly be more of a reference desk question, but as the only thing that would have stopped it working would be a change made here somewhere (or to several different browsers simulateously, I guess), I think this is a reasonable place to put it. Thanks! Ale_Jrbtalk 22:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Change to 1.17. See mw:ResourceLoader/Migration_guide_(users) and mw:ResourceLoader/Migration_guide_(developers) Reedy (talk) 00:56, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
... do you happen to know why objects returned by DOMParser would stop providing innerHTML due to these changes? Ale_Jrbtalk 01:28, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Devs switched to the site to HTML5 doctype, read Simetrical's explanation from 2009. — AlexSm 04:52, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh. Dear. Guess we can scratch that project then. =/ :| Ale_Jrbtalk 16:48, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
We're back at HTML4 at the moment but will likely get switched to HTML5 again: follow mediazilla:27478. Just switch your script to mw:API which was supposed to be used by any userscripts in the first place. — AlexSm 16:55, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I do use the API, but diffs are returned as - yes, you guessed it, strings - and in order to perform DOM edits on the strings you need to - yes, you guessed it - use DOMParser! Which stopped working properly. I will investigate another way of doing it, I suppose, for the future. Thanks anyways. Ale_Jrbtalk 17:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
You have to use AJAX with the API. The end result is simpler, but it's a big change to your code. Take at a look at my conversion of the ARV tool at User:Lightdarkness/aiv.js for a working example. Replace the addLoadHook while you're at it as I did because that's scheduled to break next. —UncleDouggie (talk) 20:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I meant of course the jQuery AJAX library. —UncleDouggie (talk) 02:35, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey. Thanks for your thoughts. I do, of course, use AJAX when interacting with the API, and have done since it was query.php. However, igloo is based around patrolling recent changes, and I have to interact with mediawiki generated diffs on a regular basis. Consider, as an example, a request like this one. You will see that the relevant part "*" returns the human readable diff as a string. You can use regex and messy, slow string methods to interact with this, but it is generally easier to use Firefox and Chrome's DOMParser to parse this string into an object so it can be manipulated like the document object using DOM methods.

Unfortunately, the change to HTML5 resulted, for some reason still unknown to me, in the returned object from DOMparser - which was, indeed, registering as a valid document object, no longer exposing the innerHTML of the object - which is important if you wish to perform string edits on it after parsing it into a document object, but before displaying it to the user. This is what my code was doing in order to add CSS highlighting of certain strings, and this is what stopped working (I just got 'html.getElementsByTagName('stuff')[0].innerHTML is undefined' where html was a valid document object returned by DOMParser). Again, thanks, but my AJAX wasn't the problem. Ale_Jrbtalk 13:33, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

You should change to format=xml and then use jQuery libraries to parse and manipulate the result. DOM parsing is about to die for good on Wikipedia. See an example here. —UncleDouggie (talk) 14:00, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Changing to format=xml changes the output type of the document, but the diff itself is still a string (albeit now with &lt; and &gt; instead of < and >), and still needs parsing into XML in some way before it can be used with jQuery or the browser DOM manipulators. There are possibly jQuery libraries for this, but the agressive nature of how resource loader seems to implement jQuery means I wouldn't know how to install or use these. Ale_Jrbtalk 14:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Twinkle doesn't display or work with diffs, afaik. I'm not sure how that's relevant. Ale_Jrbtalk 14:34, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Are you having trouble extracting the diff text from the returned data stream or are you referring to parsing of the diff text once it's already been extracted from the XML or JSON wrapper? The new Twinkle uses jQuery extensively and we haven't seen any problems. It's the new standard for Wikipedia. We're in an adapt or die situation. See this thread for offers of help. —UncleDouggie (talk) 17:14, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Regardless of the format of the API, the diff test is returned by the API as a string. I can retrieve this string simply. In order to manipulate this, however, I was parsing the string into a DOM object using DOM parser. This stopped working. Do you happen to know how jQuery can parse a string into XML? Ale_Jrbtalk 17:19, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

(←) Ale_jrb: I lookеd at your code and it seems like you're fetching the whole page just to get the diff. The thing is, MediaWiki can give you just the diff HTML with index.php...&action=render (see mw:Manual:Parameters to index.php) or with api.php...&prop=revisions...&rvdiffto=.. (this one without table headers). You can put the result into a hidden div and then use any DOM methods without using DOMParser. — AlexSm 18:14, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I was definitely parsing the API result at some point, but it might have been my dev version - I know I had lots of problems with the diff in the original development. I hadn't thought of that, though - thanks a bunch. :) Ale_Jrbtalk 18:39, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
You can't use index.php anymore with HTML 5. Everything has to use api.php. If you use format=xml, you will get back an XML document from AJAX, not a string. —UncleDouggie (talk) 01:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
That's not really the place to argue but afaik the main problem was with DOM Parser and your statements are not entirely true. We could continue this conversation at WT:WikiProject_User_scriptsAlexSm 04:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Doug, API response is XML - and can be freely manipulated using DOM methods - but that's completely irrelevant. The diff text itself is the contents of an XML field - and the contents of any XML field is a text node. You have <api><diff from="366345698" to="368373307" xml:space="preserve">lots of diff text as a string &lt;test&gt;I'm a a string&lt;/test&gt; and some more string, and &lt;tr&gt;more string&lt;/tr&gt; and so on...</diff></api> - while you could use getElementsByTagName ('diff')[0] to get the content of the diff field, you cannot use those methods on the diff itself. Which is what I wanted to do. Ale_Jrbtalk 10:48, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Sounds fragile to me, but if your diff text parsing code is working, more power to you. You started this thread by saying that your code broke with HTML 5, so clearly you weren't invoking the API with format=xml, despite what you're saying now. The DOMParser didn't break itself. The problem is that the DOMParser provided by all browsers isn't HTML 5 compatible. —UncleDouggie (talk) 13:51, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
It's horribly fragile, and generally some disgusting coding. :D I've been meaning to rewrite it for ages; maybe I'll get round to it now. Thanks for your help. Ale_Jrbtalk 14:46, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

## Flag icon

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Village pump#Flag icon. Svick (talk) 19:39, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I am currently creating a table which shows the largest settlements in the Great Lakes Megalopolis but I am currently having problems with inserting flag icons for certain cities. I really want to include the flags so it doesn't look so boring.

I am far from done but I have gotten the following flags to work:
# {{flagicon|Chicago}} [[Chicago]]
# {{flagicon|Detroit}} [[Detroit]]
# {{flagicon|Toronto}} [[Toronto]]
# {{flagicon|Montreal}} [[Montreal|Montréal]]
# {{flagicon|Cincinnati}} [[Cincinnati]]
# {{flagicon|Indianapolis}} [[Indianapolis]]

Examples of some that don't work:
# {{flagicon|Minneapolis}} [[Minneapolis]]
# {{flagicon|St. Louis}} [[St. Louis]]
# {{flagicon|Pittsburgh}} [[Pittsburgh]]
# {{flagicon|Cleveland}} [[Cleveland]]
# {{flagicon|Buffalo}} [[Buffalo]]
# {{flagicon|Kansas City}} [[Kansas City, Missouri]]


So what do I do? ThisguyYEAH (talk) 18:50, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Somebody (you?) would have to create the redlinked templates, and possibly upload flag icons for them. See Category:Country data templates for a lot of examples. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:46, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Use {Quikflag} to show flags: Almost a year ago, I created Template:Quikflag to quickly display a flag, in the style of {{flagicon}} without using all those hundreds of country-data fork templates. Simply use {quikflag} with the "link=" (and "image=") parameters:

• {{quikflag|image=Minneapolis flag.svg|link=Minneapolis|n}} → needs fair-use
• {{quikflag|image=Flag of Kansas City, Missouri.svg|link=Kansas City, Missouri|n}} →  Kansas City, Missouri

Please DO NOT create hundreds more fork templates named "Template:Country_data..." for city names. There are less than 400 countries (nations) in the world, and Minneapolis is not a country, not a U.S. state, but rather, a city. We do not need "982,000" cities to have tiny data templates named "Country_data..." when they are not countries, but rather, cities. To find a flag-image name, edit the city article, at section=0, and find the "image_flag" keyword:

http: //en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cleveland&action=edit&section=0
(contains:     |image_flag   = Flag of Cleveland, Ohio.svg)

Plus, in general, avoid creating hundreds of fork templates and try to reuse common utility templates, by passing parameters, instead of creating a separate, abstract data template specifically for each and every case, as single-purpose forked templates. Meanwhile, people should redesign and condense the {Country_data...} fork templates into having 1 major template which handles most nations, perhaps named {Older_country_data...}, using each country name as a parameter, then have just a few other templates to handle newer nations, and not have 399 or now 1,316 {Country_data...} fork templates when a few templates, using parameters, would have solved the problem. However, thank you for noting the {flagicon} fork-template problem exists, and has apparently spiraled out of control, totally. I don't think anyone originally intended to spawn thousands of {Country_data...} fork templates. The structure of Template:Flagicon has fostered the massive creation of thousands of fork templates, by concealing the simple use of parameters. -Wikid77 11:31, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that there being 400 separate templates to encompass a closed set of 400 countries is a significant problem in the general scheme of things. I do definitely agree that expanding the "Country_data_foo" schema to be open-ended for things which are manifestly not countries, is both a big change, and a big mistake. Happymelon 19:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, with having {{Template:quikflag}} now, each article can choose whether to use either 1 or 31 templates to display 30 nation flags needed in an article. I see that each {Country_data...} also can list the various flags of a nation, by year, so that is possibly a valuable feature, for sometimes displaying each nation-flag with a separate template (because many nations have had multiple flags):
{{flag| Iraq}} →  Iraq, {{flag| Iraq| 1924}} → Iraq
It is not always easy to avoid a "slippery slope" where, an idea appropriate for 400 cases, gets spammed into over 1,300 cases (as perhaps "too much of a good thing"). However, by emphasizing shorter, quicker solutions, such as using {quikflag} to show multiple flags, then the growth of template forks can be slowed, or reduced back down. In the case of flags, if the common flags are formatted and stored as the same name format and general size (by putting blank margins in some base images), than they can be displayed without a country-data lookup to adjust the size of each flag to better fit an icon size. I'm not advocating "standard flag margins" for all flags, just the common ones, where thousands of city flags could still be whatever shape a city chooses. -Wikid77

Would there happen to be one for seals and coat of arms too? Some cities do not even have flags. E.g.

ThisguyYEAH (talk) 00:47, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, if the full image name is specified, then {{quikflag}} could be used to display many seal/crest images also:
{{quikflag|image=KCKS-UG-LOGO.png|link=Kansas City, Kansas|n}} - requires a fair-use rationale.
However, the seal of Kansas City, Kansas is under copyright and requires a fair-use rationale to be shown outside the city's article. If a repeated pattern appears in many seal names (such as "Seal of xx.png"), then a {quikseal} could be written to simplify displaying multiple seals as well, probably with a larger default image size than for flags. A valid reason to have another template is to constantly use significantly different defaults than a similar template, such as different image-name format, different wikilink format, and larger size. However, as I recall, many seals are under copyright, so they should NOT be displayed outside of each city (or town) article, where a fair-use rationale specifically names that article as the use for the seal. I've even had people remind me that examples used in template documentation should beware such fair-use restrictions. This is a case where policy trumps technical ability, to avoid displaying multiple images of town seals. -Wikid77 03:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Even better, please avoid flag icons for cities altogether, per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (icons). And as Wikid77 noted, many civic flags are non-free so could not be used in icon form per WP:Non-free content criteria. So I'd hate for you to invest a lot of time putting little icons on your article, when the list will likely be incomplete, and future editors will likely remove the remaining city flag icons anyway. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 01:32, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I have yet another question.

What I want to do with this table...

Rank Metropolitan Area Population

(2009)

Population

Growth (2000-2009)

Core City(s) Population

(2009)

4 Metro Montréal 3,818,700 15.8% Montréal 1,620,693
5 Minneapolis – Saint Paul 3,269,814 +10.14% Minneapolis align=right | 385,378
rowspan Minneapolis – Saint Paul 3,269,814 +10.14%  Saint Paul align=right | 287,151
6 Greater St. Louis 2,828,990 +4.83%  St. Louis 319,294

...is to combine the 2nd and 3rd row into one row for 4 columns but the last 2 columns should stay in 2 seperate rows. Basically I want to merge the data for

so that I do not reapeat any information and mess up the order BUT I want to keep the data for the cities of

and

separated if possible. ThisguyYEAH (talk) 02:54, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Use rowspan within the table, but note that the table would not be sortable if you did that. Also, sorry, the flag of Minneapolis is non-free. Lastly, you might want to consider another template with cleaner wiki-markup: instead of:
{{quikflag|image=Flag of St. Paul, Minnesota.svg|link=Saint Paul|n}}
you could use:
{{flagicon image|Flag of St. Paul, Minnesota.svg}} [[Saint Paul]]
Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 03:25, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea how to use rowspan! ThisguyYEAH (talk) 01:10, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

To retain sorting, repeat the rank as "5" for both Minneapolis & St. Paul rows. However, to combine 2 rows, then use "rowspan=2" to start the 1st of 2 rows, then omit the Rank column on the next row, which starts instead with column "Metropolitan Area". See Help:Table and search inside for "rowspan" to find examples of combining multiple columns. The use of rowspan will seem confusing unless the examples are read carefully. -Wikid77 06:31, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

## Gender specific pages for other wikis

A recent article on women joining Wikipedia had one Portugese women state that she would like to have the option to change from "Usario" to "Usaria", but that it didn't matter that much. Just wondering, would there be any insurmountable technical difficulties by allowing users on the gender specific language wikis to allow themselves to be either "Usarios" or "Usarias" depending on their preference?AerobicFox (talk) 23:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

This is already implemented in the development version of MediaWiki (r82029). The upcoming 1.17 version does not yet support it however. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 23:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Some things can already be made gender specific with the magic word {{gender}}. The user page link at pt:Usuário:Alexanderps says "Página do usuário". At pt:Usuário:Anne Valladares it says "Página da usuária". At pt:Usuário:AlexCapra it says "Página de usuário(a)". However, the actual page name says "Usuário" in all three cases. Here is a test where {{gender:username|Male|Female|Unspecified}} is used to display respectively Male, Female, Unspecified for the three users. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:15, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
It was suggested the use of a script to change the page name as well (until the changes from rev:82029 are live). The script would just detect the word used in MediaWiki:Nstab-user (which uses GENDER as suggested on wikitech) and replace the default text in the user page header. The discussion about this (and the script code) is on this page (in Portuguese). Helder 15:47, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

The new upload button in the contributions page of every user (that is, the one that is displayed between the talk and the logs near the username in the center of the page, and which brings up http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles&user=$1 ) seems to have replaced the functionality of Daniel's WikiSense tool when it was introduced during the MediaWiki 1.17 upgrade. I propose that the tool be removed, since it is no longer necessary. :| TelCoNaSpVe :| 07:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC) ## Watchlist API fix needs synched/merged/deployed... Resolved: Now live. Thanks, West.andrew.g (talk) 21:04, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Per the now-archived thread: Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_86#Page_removed_from_watchlist When editing using the API, the 'watchlist' parameters are not respected. Any page you edit via the API will be removed from your watchlist (assuming it was already there). This is obviously not good news for tool users (but subtle enough that they might not notice it). I took this issue to Wikitech IRC where a fix was made. However, those who fixed it didn't have the necessary commit/merge/sync privileges, so the change couldn't be brought live. This took place over a week ago, how long does this normally take? I don't remember the exact change ID, but I am pretty confident it ended in "*27". Could someone please handle this? Many thanks, West.andrew.g (talk) 17:47, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Looks like rev:82727. It was synced to 1.17 in rev:82730 and 1.17wmf1 in rev:82731, so (barring reversion) we will get it eventually and relatively sooner rather than later. Your best bet for getting it live any quicker is probably to comment at rev:82731 and pester the appropriate people on IRC; while the right people may watch this page, there is no guarantee. Anomie 19:02, 1 March 2011 (UTC) ## Why do unicode characters display differently on Firefox and Safari? Characters specified using the unicode template are not processed the same on these two browsers. For example, on the page Kildin_Sami_language#Writing_system, in the sentence beginning "Note that the letters", Safari shows all the characters as sans serif bold, but Firefox shows a mixture of sans serif bold and serif not bold. In the page source, all the letters are specified using the unicode template. The mixture of serif characters in the midst of all sans serif text looks really bad. Browsers: Safari 5.0.3 & Firefox 3.6.14; Operating system: Mac OS X 10.5.8; —Coroboy (talk) 23:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC) I use firefox and they are all in sans serif; my guess it's that it is (a) due to the fonts you have installed on your computer or (b) due to the default fonts firefox picks for you. To change that (in firefox) go to Tools>Options>Content and pick a different font as default. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 23:43, 1 March 2011 (UTC) (a) It's not the fonts - Safari shows all the characters using a sans serif font, so they are available. (b) I tried playing with Firefox font settings. Nothing made any difference until I turned off "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of my selections above". Then the whole page was displayed in serif. But I want pages to choose their own fonts, so I turned it back on. Then the same characters as before were still displayed in a serif font while the rest of the page went back to the Wikipedia specified sans serif font - except that they are now bold as they should be. (Note I am using a Mac system and a Mac version of Firefox - the previous reply gave a menu location for a Windows version of Firefox.) —Coroboy (talk) 01:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## Cite template not working? The cite template does not appear to be working. The RH option is now headed <cite-section-label> which when selected produces a drop down <cite-template-list> (I don't remember either of these having < > before) When clicking the down arrow and selecting cite web (or any of the others), I get a totally blank form with nothing to say what goes in which box. (I'm using IE8, XP, Vector) Arjayay (talk) 12:08, 26 February 2011 (UTC) I think you are referring to RefToolbar 2.0. Ask this question on the talk page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:15, 27 February 2011 (UTC) See Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar 2.0#Troubleshooting. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:24, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## Getting Google to forget Regarding this issue, the error was apparently never fixed. See here for related information. Google search results are still coming up with deleted category pages. VegaDark (talk) 03:35, 27 February 2011 (UTC) • In the (article) namespace all deleted or never-exist titles return an HTTP response header starting with HTTP/1.0 404 Not Found. This means that search engines will stop indexing deleted pages. What are the objections to applying this rule to all the other namespaces? Here, for example is a category page that Google is still indexing even though it was deleted more than three years ago. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 14:15, 27 February 2011 (UTC) • Did you not pay attention to the bug you filed last time? The change has already been made in trunk, it just wasn't part of the 1.17 update. Anomie 15:37, 27 February 2011 (UTC) • Ah, that's what I was wondering. Any idea when it will be? Or how I can check when it finally is, so I can delete the category in question? VegaDark (talk) 08:30, 28 February 2011 (UTC) • I have, on several occasions, emphasized to pre-edit pages before deletion, because the final content might "go viral" when deleted, leaving unwanted text phrases still indexed, for display in multiple search engines, where the "deleted" page can no longer be corrected to stop the text copied to all those search-engine websites. See essay: WP:BLPMEND (or WP:BLPWAIT). Fortunately, policy WP:BLP (since 2009) already advises people, who will actually follow the rules, to edit pages to correct BLP violations, long before they are deleted. This is a case where policies are in agreement with technical considerations, rather than some bizarre rule, such as claiming users will have their little minds warped if a disambiguation line contains 2 blue wikilinks. On some occasions, Google Search will re-index a corrected article within 2 days, so a corrected BLP-violation article could be deleted later, perhaps for non-notability, but after the unwanted text was de-indexed from Google. Note how search engine Bing.com has been creating Bing sub-topic pages named for the "==header==" phrases within each article, giving high visibility to such headers as major sub-topics when Bing matches to the article. For that reason, any troublesome =header= phrases should also be reworded before deleting an article. I have confirmed a deleted page goes viral for at least 3 weeks in Google, even though a corrected page could have been re-indexed within 2 days to "forget" the unwanted text. However, those activities might have changed, now, with Google's lowering of some Wikipedia article ranks. I realize there is the constant danger of rabid deletionists who will violate all rules to censor and delete pages, instantly, regardless of technical issues, so if a deletion procedure could actually blank-and-hide a deleted page (for 3 or 4 days), thereby allowing the "empty" page to be re-indexed by spiders before full deletion, then that would avoid the going-viral problem of the unwanted text on such pages. The basic strategy, again, is to create technical procedures (such as blank-and-hide predelete) which are mostly "foolproof" (or "jerk-proof") to avoid problems even with people who "ignore all [your technical] rules". -Wikid77 02:50, 28 February 2011 (UTC) • Pre-editing pages wouldn't solve the issue if the title of the page is the troubling content in question, though. Would moving an article solve this perhaps, though? VegaDark (talk) 08:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC) If only the title is troublesome, I suggest the move to a new name, then go to the original title (containing #REDIRECT) and replace that line with "blank page" so it becomes a tiny article, which will be re-indexed to words "blank" and "page" as very low rank (among 4,080,000 other webpages) with common phrase blank page (see: Intentionally blank page). After a few days, then completely delete that original title article. If the whole article is being deleted, then directly replace the whole contents as "blank page" to avoid searches which might match invalid text in the deleted article. Wait a few days (for re-indexing by search-engine spiders), then delete. Upon a possible un-delete, the prior revision can be re-edited to restore and modify, plus verify, the older contents. For offensive category names, consider a similar move, plus blank-page tagging of the old category page, wait a few days, then delete. During a WP:AfD resolution, identify the preferred new name, as being pre-deleted, so there would be little need to un-delete an offensive page title, where the contents were archived, instead, under the preferred name. I hope this hasn't sounded too confusing. -Wikid77 07:17, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## Editing shortcut has disappeared Some time back I asked on here about getting a Cite shortcut added to my editing page, and this was done successfully. I have just noticed today though that this Cite sub-heading is no longer showing on my layout when I go to edit articles. Can anyone suggest what might be happening? Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 22:31, 28 February 2011 (UTC) Same for me - except I don't recall adding anything - the cite shortcut has been there, and it has disappeared. Please advise. Tvoz/talk 23:58, 28 February 2011 (UTC) If using the new toolbar, ask at Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar 2.0. If using the old toolbar, note that the Cite button is now on the left; ask at Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar 1.0. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 05:15, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Thanks for your response. I assume I am on 1.0 and so have made a post at [1]. I can't see any cite button on the left of my layout. Eldumpo (talk) 09:24, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Yes, thanks - I am on the old toolbar, and that cite button had completely disappeared, but then it reappeared on the left where it is at the moment. (Eldumpo, it reappeared for me next to the "B" for bold on the left above the edit screeen - but it wasn't there earlier yesterday.) Is this instability expected to settle down? Tvoz/talk 17:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC) On Friday, RefTools was changed from an option to a feature. The icon moved from the right to the left because of this. See Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar 2.0#Troubleshooting for more info. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## Vector skin load warnings I'm getting rather tired of the dozens of the following console warnings that I get when loading any page on Wikipedia. Warning: Expected 'important' but found 'ie'. Expected ';' or '}' to terminate declaration but found 'ie'. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=mediawiki.legacy.commonPrint%7Cmediawiki.legacy.shared%7Cskins.vector&only=styles&skin=vector Line: 1  It's been happening for quite awhile, but I'm trying to debug the new Twinkle and they are seriously getting in my way. I've got my hands full with Twinkle, so I'd really appreciate any help in figuring out what's going on. I'm using FF 4.0b12 at the moment, but the same thing happens on FF 3.6.13, which I still need to use for deeper debugging. Thanks! —UncleDouggie (talk) 08:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Also, when I save a page, which is kind of important for Twinkle, I get several dozen more of: Warning: Unknown property 'whitespace'. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) Line: 0 Warning: Error in parsing value for 'filter'. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=site&only=styles&skin=vector&version=20110227T232030Z Line: 1 Warning: Expected ':' but found '='. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) Line: 0 Warning: Selector expected. Ruleset ignored due to bad selector. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=user&only=styles&skin=vector&user=UncleDouggie&version=20110227T163440Z Line: 1 Warning: Error in parsing value for 'filter'. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=site&only=styles&skin=vector&version=20110227T232030Z Line: 1 Warning: Unknown property 'zoom'. Declaration dropped. Source File: http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=mediawiki.legacy.commonPrint%7Cmediawiki.legacy.shared%7Cskins.vector&only=styles&skin=vector Line: 1  UncleDouggie (talk) 08:39, 1 March 2011 (UTC) These are all warnings and not important. They are invalid CSS declarations, used to target specific browsers. (Read IE). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC) I'm not worried about them. They're just getting in my way. I'll just have to debug off errors only and hope that there aren't any warnings from the Twinkle update. Can't we suppress them based on browser detection? —UncleDouggie (talk) 09:50, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Unfortunately CSS does not provide mechanisms for browser detection. Doing it all with separate conditional comments in the html source has proven to be not really sustainable with all the different skins and stuff and probably hurts caching of the resourceloader quite a lot. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC) I sympathize. Thanks for your response. I've been forced to just hide all warnings. Usually my bugs are big obvious things anyway. :-) —UncleDouggie (talk) 13:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Hmm, I don't recall JavaScript warnings to be really helpful, but if you need them then the following things can filter errors and messages by type: Firebug's console (#1 tool btw), Firefox extension Console² (haven't tried it myself), Opera's error console. Plus you could try JSHint or JSLint. — AlexSm 16:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC) I use Firebug for intensive debugging, but even then I like being able to have the error console open in a second window because I don't think there's a way to detach the console pane from the main Firebug window. A bigger problem is that Firebug isn't released for FF 4.0beta, which I've been needing to use due to all the other ResouceLoader induced weirdness. I see that Firebug now has an alpha for FF 4, but I'm not sure I want go there. Although, switching back and forth from FF 4 to FF 3 to debug is a bit of a pain. Furthermore, we need to test the new Twinkle in non-FF browsers that don't have Firebug. —UncleDouggie (talk) 06:57, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## Auto-refreshing RecentChanges using AJAX? I recently stole this (and this) code from a Wikia site I administrate on, to try and get Special:RecentChanges to auto-refresh. I can't seem to get it to work, however. I'm guessing I need to modify it a bit, can anyone help me with that? Furries Talk 03:48, 2 March 2011 (UTC) You might want to look at meta:User:Krinkle/Tools/Real-Time_Recent_Changes instead. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:27, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## "Release date and age" code shows wrong age On page DragonFly_BSD, in the info box, Latest Stable Release: Today the age is showing as 3 months, but 30 Oct was over 4 months ago. Is there a bug related to the short month of February, I wonder? Minor event (talk) 03:50, 2 March 2011 (UTC) A month is hardcoded as 31 days in {{Time ago}}, a template which is the basis for the template you mentioned. This template is also the basis for most, if not all, of the date-difference-related templates. Gary King (talk · scripts) 04:31, 2 March 2011 (UTC) So.. the template wants improving? Minor event (talk) 06:39, 2 March 2011 (UTC) I'm sure that they'd appreciate it if you could lend a hand. However, they might have made it the way it is for performance reasons, so that calculating the difference between two dates won't take more than a minute, for instance. Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:03, 2 March 2011 (UTC) A change from 31 to 30 days per "month" might be slightly more standard. Anomie 00:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC) • Just use 365.25 days per year / 12 months per year = 30.4375 days per month. Then, if someone asks for 2,000 days ago, the result would be: • 2,000/30.4375 ~= 65.71 ~= 66 months, versus • 2,000/31.0000 ~= 64.52 ~= 65 months, by 31-day formula. It would be a simple change, and reflect a compromise of all months in a year, including most leap years. -Wikid77 04:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC) I think perhaps modulo operation would be pertinent, so we don't actually see all those gross decimals. :) Aside from that, this definitely warrants a change. --Izno (talk) 05:10, 3 March 2011 (UTC) • "Time ago" is IMO obnoxious and seems to be some kind of viral internet meme appearing all over various blogs I read and so forth. Is it some kind of twitter-ism or something? I guess "3 minutes ago" or even "1 hour ago" can be sort of human-friendly, but for anything further back than 1 hour, I'd prefer to see a conventional time stamp with the actual date. 71.141.88.54 (talk) 06:32, 3 March 2011 (UTC) ## Deletion of the move log? I recently say this in the deletion log (actually, I entered Special:Log/move): * 13:03, 2 March 2011 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) changed the visibility of one or more entries in the (Move log): removed content, edit summary for 1 entry ‎ (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material) * 13:03, 2 March 2011 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) changed the visibility of one or more entries in the (Move log): removed content, edit summary for 1 entry ‎ (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material) * 13:03, 2 March 2011 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) changed the visibility of one or more entries in the (Move log): removed content, edit summary for 1 entry ‎ (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material) * 13:03, 2 March 2011 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) changed the visibility of one or more entries in the (Move log): removed content, edit summary for 1 entry ‎ (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material) * 13:02, 2 March 2011 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) changed the visibility of one or more entries in the (Move log): removed content, edit summary for 1 entry ‎ (RD2: Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material)  --Posted on 14:52 on 2 March in 2011 (UTC) by Highspeedrailguy 14:52, 2 March 2011 (UTC) It's revision deletion. I've taken the liberty of removeing all the entries besides the first five in your post to make the size of this section more reasonable. Graham87 15:10, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## Huggle In User:The High Fin Sperm Whale/huggle.css, the part that says, default-summary:Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/$1|$1]] ([[User talk:$1|talk]]) to last revision by $2  If I change this part, will that change my summary every time I revert? Is it as simple as that? And is there any way I can add an automated note every time I warn a user? Thanks, --T H F S W (T · C · E) 21:28, 2 March 2011 (UTC) ## No edit buttons Intermittently in the past few weeks I've encountered pages that appear to be protected when they are not. I see "View source" at the top of the page instead of "Edit", and no "edit" links on individual sections. Clicking "view source" actually lets me edit the page normally. Reloading the page sometimes fixes the problem. Is there a bug open? I didn't see one in a little bit of bugzilla searching. 71.141.88.54 (talk) 06:27, 3 March 2011 (UTC) ## List defined references issue Does anyone know what happened to the numbering of references when using the list defined reference format? There are no numbers anymore in the references section, just bullets.KeptSouth (talk) 16:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC) (edit conflict) Can someone tell me what is going in this picture? Why are references no longer numbered 1-4 like they used to be? NW (Talk) 16:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Working An update to the cite system is progress. Bear with us while we sort this out. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:05, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Reverted. An experiment with custom list styling did not go as expected. While the custom styling itself worked flawlessly, the default numbering changed to bullets. As I could not think of a fix, I reverted for now, while I think of a new mechanism. Edokter (talk) — 16:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Sorry: still bullets. --Old Moonraker (talk) 16:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Try bypassing your cache. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:38, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Yep: still bullets. --Old Moonraker (talk) 16:51, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Click Purge on top of the page; it's not a browser cache issue. Mediawiki needs to re-render the page. Edokter (talk) — 16:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC) ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Yep, that's a fix. Thanks, everybody. --Old Moonraker (talk) 17:03, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Resolved An update to the Cite reference system went awry. Pages that still show bullets can be fixed by purging. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC) ## Numbering contribs list with Vector When I used the Monobook skin, I had an entry in my monobook.css to display contribs as a numbered list rather than bullet points: body.page-Special_Contributions ul { list-style: decimal } This doesn't work in Vector, but I found that body[class*="page-Special_Contributions"] ul { list-style: decimal } seems to do the trick. Is there a better way? However, this seems to have removed all numbering from the list of references ... and now even if I blank both vector.js and vector.css, I still cannot restore the numbering even if I log out and reload. (this applies both in Chrome and Firefox) Any suggestions? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Working An update to the cite system is progress. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC) (edit conflict) They could be unrelated, see immediately above #List defined references issue. I seem to recall having a # button that would number the contribs, but it's not showing up any more. –xenotalk 16:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Apparently, there is no better way. In Vector, the body class is defined as class="mediawiki ltr ns--1 ns-special page-Special_Contributions_BrownHairedGirl skin-vector". The references are unrelated. Edokter (talk) — 16:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Thanks folks. It seems that my changes coincided with a transient glitch in the Vector skin, but everything is now working again. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:08, 3 March 2011 (UTC) • Does anyone know where the # button went or came from? –xenotalk 17:11, 3 March 2011 (UTC) I never saw a # button. Did you have a script which provided it? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:36, 3 March 2011 (UTC) That's what I'm trying to recall... –xenotalk 17:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Part of the problem is the CSS class differs depending on the type of url used to access said contribs, cf.: So apparently the fix applied for bugzilla:23315 has not taken effect yet. ―cobaltcigs 21:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC) ## pages cached for logged-in users? It seems like the CURRENTTIMESTAMP magic word is getting cached for me; I see the same value until I purge the page, when I see a new value. I thought that logged-in users always got a fresh parse, including the current versions of these magic words, and only logged-out users got a cached version. But I never tested it before - has this behavior been standard for a while, or is it new? — Carl (CBM · talk) 21:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC) There's caching and caching. The output of the preprocessor is cached, after brace expansion is done but before full parsing; this level of cached material doesn't contain any user-specific details, so it can be used by logged-in users. Once the parser has run over it and implemented things like stub thresholds, math preferences, etc, the result (the full HTML of the article contents, without the skin frame) is cached too; that can be drawn upon if your user preferences happen to match. Finally, the complete page, with all the skin chrome and widgets, is cached by the squids for logged-out users. So it's not true that whenever a logged-in user requests a page, it's created from scratch from the database; most likely an apache server will pull a cached copy of the wikitext and slot it in to your heavily-personalised skin frame. Happymelon 22:20, 3 March 2011 (UTC) ## Disabling rollback on Android phone Another editor pointed me to this thread for help in removing rollback when I'm looking at my watchlist on my phone. The problem is that I have a Motorola Droid, not an iPhone. Can it be adapted? I figured I could delete "iPhone" and "iPod" and insert something else, but I'm not really sure what. Thanks, Coemgenus 00:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Try "Android"? (You can check what user agent your browser is sending by clicking here.) –xenotalk 00:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC) (...) if (navigator.userAgent.match(/Android/i) { var styleEle = document.getElementsByTagName("head")[0].appendChild(document.createElement("style")); styleEle.sheet.insertRule(".mw-rollback-link { display: none; }", 0); }  Oh, SWEET. (Had the problem on my iDevices, actually set up a separate account (with the appropriate notices) to deal with this and public hotspots.) --99.13.228.79 (talk) 00:22, 4 March 2011 (UTC) This ended up working: if (navigator.userAgent.match(/Android/i) || navigator.userAgent.match(/Droid/i)) { var styleEle = document.getElementsByTagName("head")[0].appendChild(document.createElement("style")); styleEle.sheet.insertRule(".mw-rollback-link { display: none; }", 0); }  Thanks for the help. --Coemgenus 02:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC) ## Cite.php: Custom cite links The Footnote3 system using {{Ref}}/{{Note}} has been deprecated for standard footnotes, but is still heavily in use in tables, navboxes and the like. This is because the Footnotes system has a in-text cite link that uses a a minimum of three characters, including the space, and can be intrusive. With the new deployment of MediaWiki, the Cite extension was updated to include custom cite links. This means we can now have in-text cite links of one character. For example, using a group name of "footnote" now uses lower case link labels instead of numeric: The Sun is pretty big,<ref group=lower-alpha>Miller, E: ''The Sun'', page 23. Academic Press, 2005.</ref> but the Moon is not so big.<ref group=lower-alpha>Brown, R: "Size of the Moon", ''Scientific American'', 51(78):46</ref> The Sun is also quite hot.<ref group=lower-alpha>Miller, E: ''The Sun'', page 34. Academic Press, 2005.</ref> <h2> Notes </h2> <references group=lower-alpha/>  The Sun is pretty big,[a] but the Moon is not so big.[b] The Sun is also quite hot.[c] Notes 1. ^ Miller, E: The Sun, page 23. Academic Press, 2005. 2. ^ Brown, R: "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78):46 3. ^ Miller, E: The Sun, page 34. Academic Press, 2005. Full documentation is currently at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (footnotes)/Cite link labels. To do: Technical stuff that I will deal with • Create a help page for the error message— started at Help:Cite errors/Cite error no link label group • Update the error message to link to the error page— Can't use a wikilink as the error message is classed as a reference • Link the error message talk page to the central page— done ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:39, 25 February 2011 (UTC) First of all, is this related to the above thread? (i.e. every citation on every page was appearing as letters for about 15 minutes). Second: the reference at the bottom of the page needs to be the same format as the citation above. It is quite confusing to follow a letter citation to a numeric reference. Jujutacular talk 15:50, 25 February 2011 (UTC) Yes— my fault. It should clear up quickly. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:58, 25 February 2011 (UTC) The reference list is an ordered list and uses numbers that don't match the in-text cite labels. Added to bug 22265. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC) <3 --Golbez (talk) 22:49, 25 February 2011 (UTC) A couple of things: 1. I don't think that footnote is an appropriate name for a special-case usage such as this — ditto for all similarly normal-seeming names. There's too much chance of that name being used by an editor expecting it to work as a normal (i.e. not special-case) group name. Also, special-case group names defined at some distant-future point (e.g. greek, crylic) risk breaking articles which used those names as normal group names before they (suddenly and, to many editors, mysteriously) begin behaving in a special-case fashion. One solution might be to adopt a naming convention for this class of special-case group names and deprecate those names by convention for normal plain-vanilla group name usage. One convention which seems workable would be to require group names for this special-case usage to begin with commercial-at character (e.g., @footnote and @greek). 2. One useful application which I see for this is footnoting tables using the familiar cite-php <Ref ... method rather than the more complicated WP:Footnote3 method. However, I would expect that there would be some articles having multiple tables needing footnotes. As I understand it, this could be dealt with by creating some number of available groups using the same footnoting characters (e.g., group=@footnote1, group=@footnote2, etc., all identical to the exampled footnote group), but I wonder if this could somehow be done without requiring an admin to step in to create, say, the next five groups when the ones then existing aren't enough for some article. Perhaps a special-case suffix could cause reuse of a base group (that is, have a group named @footnote which picks the footnote numbering characters, and which could be reused by specifying group names like group=@footnote#1, group=@footnote#2, etc.). I hope I've explained that in an understandable manner. It'll read like gibberish to some, but I'm guessing that it'll be clear to Gadget50 (Ed). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:08, 26 February 2011 (UTC) I had been pondering the naming scheme and using @ makes sense if it is allowed in the MediaWiki namespace (I will find out). As to point 2: this should not be an issue. When you use any parameter within {{reflist}} or <references>...</references> then it closes the reference list, and the use of |group= will certainly do this. Thus the references from one table will not get stuffed into the reference list for another. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:05, 26 February 2011 (UTC) Changed the existing groups to @alpha and @greek. I am going to add table examples to the doc page. Added @decimal. Example:  05/08 04/08 4266 7828 7282[1] 1105 224[1] 161 916 [1] 506 231 4127 6190 6487[1] 1139 241 205 1165 478 301 4127 6190 6487 1139 241 205 1165[1] 478 301[1] 4266 7828 7282 1105[1] 224 161 916[1] 506 231 1. Elk, Anne (November 16, 1972). Anne Elk's Theory on Brontosauruses. @decimal is really not needed, as that is the default for ref labeling and list styling. Edokter (talk) — 14:10, 3 March 2011 (UTC) It is if you want to use numerics as a refgroup in a table. There are many articles that still use {{ref}} because refgroup cite labels were too large. Examples: Big Brother Sweden#Nominations table, 2009 Russian Premier League#Managerial changes. When I deprecated and updated {{fn}} a year ago, my efforts to replace it with refgroups was rejected in many cases due to label size and it was replaced with {{ref}}. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:34, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Moved to @decimal to match list-style-type property. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:32, 3 March 2011 (UTC) I do not know why things went wrong with this page but please do not restore the wiki-text above. Otherwise the archiving bot may break the page again. – Allen4names 08:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC) So is it worth adding any of the other styles from CSS 2.1 or CSS3? CSS2.1 gives @armenian, decimal-leading-zero, @georgian, @upper-roman, and @upper-alpha, while CSS3 adds a ton more. Speaking of which, how is browser support for all those? Anomie 20:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Wikipedia:Manual of Style (footnotes)/Cite link labels has been updated to address that. It has instructions on how to request new styles and a list of potential styles with samples. I did a lot of work a year ago deprecating and replacing the older footnote systems, and I only recall the use of lower-alpha, decimal and a few with Greek, which is why I started with those. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:47, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Updated with IE support issues. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 21:06, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Added a list of values and browser support to the doc. I can't see the value to @armenian or @georgian and decimal-leading-zero simply adds a leading zero to the single digit numbers. @upper-roman and @upper-alpha are good candidates. The CSS3 values are now documented, and there are some that look very useful, but I don't see any that are supported in a browser yet. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:44, 4 March 2011 (UTC) ## Idiots guide to updating .js pages for 1.17 Is there one? If not can some kind soul write (or at least start) one? Rich Farmbrough, 17:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC). Please... --Kudpung (talk) 20:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Have you seen mw:ResourceLoader/Migration_guide_(users)? Ale_Jrbtalk 23:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC) You might try Wikipedia_talk:Twinkle#Code_restructuring. We're running into just above every possible problem along the way. I don't think I'd call it an idiot's guide, although perhaps the new Wikipedia.page class will come close when it's done. Just don't ask about page jumping. —UncleDouggie (talk) 01:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## Template:Infobox astronaut Anybody know how to add alt text to images in this infobox? If so, it would be good if they could chime in at Talk:Mark E. Kelly/GA1. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:54, 4 March 2011 (UTC) There is already an |alt= parameter in the code but it is not mentioned in the documentation. Keith D (talk) 23:33, 4 March 2011 (UTC) ## Edit summary length Has the maximum length for an edit summary been increased from 200 characters? It looks like the edit summary box now accepts 250 characters, although I'm only seeing the first 248 in the edit history. Mudwater (Talk) 03:28, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Did you check your preferences#gadgets before asking this question (the checkbox next to "Allow up to 50 more characters...") ? — AlexSm 03:38, 1 March 2011 (UTC) I didn't check, and thanks for pointing out that page, I hadn't noticed it before and it has some interesting things in it. However, "Allow up to 50 more characters in each of your edit summaries" is not checked for me. I hadn't see the Gadgets before and nothing on that page is checked. Mudwater (Talk) 03:55, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Hmmm, I did not know that such a gadget existed! I did notice where it did seem like the edit summary box allowed some more characters, but I did not know that there is also a gadget to expand its capacity. I have now enabled it. Thanks! [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 04:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Then it must be the resolution for mediazilla:22967 finally live in MediaWiki which means we don't need the gadget anymore. — AlexSm 04:16, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Sounds good, the extra characters will come in handy, although it would be even better if the number of characters recorded in the edit summary was exactly the same as the number of characters allowed in the edit summary box before saving the edit. Mudwater (Talk) 04:19, 1 March 2011 (UTC) I just tested it, that fix does seem to be live. Anomie 15:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC) It is worth browsing around My preferences. In the last week or so quite a few options have been added (and removed). Thincat (talk) 10:47, 1 March 2011 (UTC) Summarizing an edit-summary: There are some WP pages to help write concise edit-summary lines: WP:EDITSUM & WP:Edit summary legend (WP:ESL, think "edit-summaries as a second language"). The use of common abbreviations can make the edit-summary line of 200 characters act like 300 or 400 long. For example: • putting: "grmr/fmt +refs, recat" (each explained in WP:ESL) • means: "adjusted grammar; reformatted; added source references; redid category links" Please feel free to add more abbreviations to the essay "WP:Edit summary legend". Plus remember, an extensive edit-summary text might work better as a talk-page topic ("Reworded for NPOV"), to really emphasize everything which was changed (and why). For rare articles, the talk-pages are rarely archived, and a topic, added there, will often have far more impact than an edit-summary line (which fades from view in revised articles). -Wikid77 14:04, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## Temple:Tracklist and Infoboxes {{Tracklist}} has been acting strangely when placed near an infobox (see In Your Face (Fishbone album)). It may be the new MW or whatever, but this is messing up a lot of pages. Can someone take a look at it? ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 07:29, 3 March 2011 (UTC) I tried some different things and I realized its assuming a certain default thumbnail size in the infobox. When I lowered my default thumbnail size it worked. Can this be fixed? ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 07:56, 3 March 2011 (UTC) • Quick fix: I see the Firefox browser is also refusing to allow {Tracklist} to display the track-listing table alongside the infobox, no matter how wide the window is stretched. Fortunately, I have a similar template which will work, under name "Template:Track_listing/sandbox6", which was formerly {{Tracklist_custom}} to allow customizing the width of each column (and automatically adding the track lengths to compute the total album length). By changing {Tracklist} to #REDIRECT to Template:Track_listing/sandbox6, then that large text-gap problem can be avoided, quickly, in thousands of articles, until another fix is found. However, the current shoddy appearance is not unexpected: many users often see mis-formatted tables and vandalism hacks in hundreds of other articles, so this formatting glitch is just another to them. -Wikid77 14:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## HotCat being difficult Today I'm noticing that HotCat isn't automatically saving the changes I make--it gives me the "edit preview" window and I either have to manually change the category in the preview window or hit the back button and re-make the change using HotCat, at which point it automatically saves it. I'm confused as to why it only saves the changes automatically after I've reloaded the page. Help? Aristophanes68 (talk) 16:40, 4 March 2011 (UTC) I can't reproduce that. Try reloading your browser's cache and see if that makes the problem go away. Otherwise: which browser, which skin? Single-change mode or multi-change mode? Lupo 17:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Are you using Firefox 3.6.14, and if so, does HotCat use Java applets? If so, you may need to upgrade to Firefox 3.6.15. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:01, 4 March 2011 (UTC) No, HotCat doesn't use Java. HotCat is a JavaScript script. The JavaScript programming language has, despite the name, nothing whatsoever to do with the Java programming language. AFAIK, HotCat works perfectly well on FF 3.6.14. Lupo 18:10, 4 March 2011 (UTC) The system logged me out for some reason (that's been happening a lot too lately) and after I logged back in, it seems to be working fine. Really odd. Maybe it was just a browser glitch. Thanks. Aristophanes68 (talk) 22:47, 4 March 2011 (UTC) I'm getting similar issues with HotCat as well so you aren't alone. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 04:20, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Sporadically getting logged out has nothing to do with HotCat. Lupo 09:31, 5 March 2011 (UTC) I realize that. My point was that things seemed better after I logged back in, and I wondered if it was just a cache issue. However, on a different computer last night, HotCat was acting odd again. Aristophanes68 (talk) 13:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## How to find all the articles linking to a certaing article through the interwiki? I can easily find all the pages in the english wikipedia linking to a certain article. How can I find all the articles from wikipedias in other languages that links to a certain article through the interwiki links? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.234.224.27 (talk) 21:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Would a Google search like this- link:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) site:wikipedia.org -site:en.wikipedia.org help?[2] Thincat (talk) 10:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Not working for me :( even the first result in that search isn't linking to Village_pump_(technical), but to Village_pump_(main). Any other ideas? 81.234.224.27 (talk) 15:30, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## Collapse top template at the top of admin noticeboard incident archive Can someone explain/find out why the {{collapse top}} template is below the {{Administrators' noticeboard navbox all}} template when in reality placed right below the archive's first header? See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive678 for what I mean. The collapsed content is below the navbox template, and the collapsed content itself is, in the wiki-code, right below the header. The header ("My Kenken link repeatedly deleted"), however, is still at the top of the page. I have confirmed the issue in both the Vector and MonoBook interfaces. HeyMid (contribs) 23:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC) It is a navbox. Navboxes always clear all floating elements, and thus by definition will always be positioned under all floating elements. This is intentional. Remember that navboxes are made to be put at the bottom of articles, they are not for dropping random stuff on a talkpage. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:37, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## RSS/Twitter of In The News Hi all, I really like In The News and I feel that it's exactly the sort of news source that many people who don't currently follow the news (including me) would like to follow - timely, accurate, and non-trivial. Thus, I'd like to make an RSS and a Twitter feed of it. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to do this, and would anyone like to help out? (I've also posted this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Syndication) Mariuskempe (talk) 11:28, 5 March 2011 (UTC) You could use a service such as this one to convert webpages to RSS feeds. Wikipedia itself doesn't output feeds for the "In the News" section specifically since it's a wiki, after all, and it'd be hard for the software to determine whether to push, say, an edit of an existing headline as a new item or not. You could, however, subscribe to changes made to the page. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:13, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## duplicating section I am want to deal with several pages that use and a summary. The issue is that there have ended up being multiple sections that have different meaning. Is it possible to rewrite the summary so that automatically insert a paragraph/section from the original article? If so where do I find how to do this?Tetron76 (talk) 16:30, 5 March 2011 (UTC) You could transclude the section, although it's usually better to just write out the summary rather than transclude part of another article. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:11, 5 March 2011 (UTC) • Extracting summary text, to be repeated, could be done with a separate template, dedicated to the general subject. However, there should be several articles which need a summary section, to justify having a template dedicated to this purpose. For example, suppose the NASA Apollo missions needed to all be summarized in a WP:NPOV-neutral manner, as a small paragraph to be shown in each of the 3 (of 60) astronaut's bio-page for the 3 men on each Apollo mission. The goal would be to maintain a balance between Apollo 1 to Apollo 17 to cancelled Apollo 20; hence, even though Apollo 11 was the first Moon landing, it should not be summarized as 10x times more text than Apollo 8 or such. A dedicated Template:Sum_Apollo_mission could be created, where all 20 Apollo missions were described, briefly, in similar terms. The Apollo mission number, plus the name of the particular astronaut, would be parameters: • {{Sum_Apollo_mission| number=11| name=Mike Collins}} That same template could be used in all 60 (or so) astronaut bio-pages to ensure that all 20 Apollo missions were summarized in an equivalent, balanced, NPOV manner, for each of the 60 astronauts. Extra separate text could be appended into each astronaut article, after showing the general text from {{Sum_Apollo_mission|...}}. Later, if some aspects of the Apollo-flight summaries needed to be highlighted, then changing just that 1 dedicated template would apply the change to all 60 astronaut bio-pages, rather than waiting to update each astronaut article, separately by hand, giving unfair attention to the earlier pages updated. As a mental limit, I would consider using a dedicated template only when there were more than 6 pages needing a similar summary section. -Wikid77 23:21, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## Adding contents of a category to a project Can you add a project template to all items in a category automatically? This is an issue for BTGProject that I suspect has about 5000 pages of interest but only 2000 marked.Tetron76 (talk) 16:39, 5 March 2011 (UTC) You'd have to either get a bot to do it or use WP:AWB. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## Delayed jumping of watchlist I have "dismissed" top wikipedia ads in my watchlist (clerk elections, pending protection talks, etc.) and now experience this: every time I refresh watchlist, the page jumps up and down by several lines within a time frame of a few seconds. It apparently first opens those WP ads then realizes that I disabled them, and collapses them, but the delay is rather annoying. Surely, same happens on similar pages with collapsible tops, such as this one. If I happened to refresh the page in a scrolled state (i.e. was somewhere in the middle of the page and hit "reload") then I get an extra jump (sort of triple jump). Is this just wiki servers traffic (its lasts already several days) or this can be alleviated by some settings? I use WP:XP/Vista + latest Firefox + old WP interface (i.e. no vector); one PC+internet is fast, but the delay is still quite noticeable; another is slower and it is hit worse. I think this all started after the last major wikimedia update. Materialscientist (talk) 04:37, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Happens independent of traffic. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 04:40, 4 March 2011 (UTC) I get it too, Monobook, Chrome, WinXP. I think it's one of the improvements in the last upgrade. DuncanHill (talk) 04:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC) The funny thing is that I wish now to re-enable those WP ads on top to reduce jumping, but don't know how :) Materialscientist (talk) 04:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC) It's due to the implementation of ResourceLoader in the MediaWiki 1.17 update. We don't know any way to stop it. There have been several threads on this page with the gory details about jumping over the last week. —UncleDouggie (talk) 05:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC) I don't like it either: apart from being annoying it looks unprofessional - what other websites do that? To get the messages back (which stops the jumping), delete the en.wikipedia.org cookies named hidewatchlistmessage-nn, where nn at present is 92 and 93. —SMALLJIM 10:56, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Unprofessional behaviour is often what you get from a website built by non-professionals :P Two options I can see are to either hide the notices by default and display them with javascript, which would prevent the jumping but make the notices not visible to users without JS; or to use a jQuery effect (fade out or slide out) to hide them, rather than an instant jump. Happymelon 16:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Except that we do have a paid technical team, things like this do leave me scratching my head. Rich Farmbrough, 17:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC). Yes, I was going to query whether our developers were really amateurs. Part of the problem for me is that the number of these messages varies: I don't mind one or two one-liners, but when there are a lot they push the page content down too far and it's then that I switch them off and the jumping now starts. I'd be happier if they were in a shallow box that was always the same size (maybe in small text) with a scroll bar if necessary. Can that be done with CSS? Otherwise I think a good case can be made for not forcing all .js to be applied after the page is rendered. —SMALLJIM 18:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Actually, yes, 94% of MediaWiki developers are volunteers; and while they invariably have programming experience and many earn a living from IT and software, they can't be said to be acting in a "professional" capacity here. ResourceLoader was, broadly speaking, a volunteer spinoff alternative to a failed Foundation project (the ultimately-rejected /js2 branch). More importantly, this issue is a result of work done both by those developers, and editors here on enwiki, who definitely cannot be held to act in a professional capacity. We strive for professionalism, certainly, and that's both reasonable and important. We do not have the right to expect it. Happymelon 15:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC) I experience this jumping issue too (in Monobook and Vector, using Firefox for Windows), particularly on RfPP when I respond to a request. It shows me the long list of notation templates, which is normally hidden. Then that jumps out of view again. It's been happening since the 1.17 update. SlimVirgin test account (talk) 01:09, 8 March 2011 (UTC) ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Thanks for those comments. To answer the interesting bit of my posting myself, trial and error has shown that adding the following to my monobook.css puts the watchlist messages into a scrollable box. This stays the same size whether or not it has any content, and thus eliminates the jumping. #watchlist-message {/*put content into a scrollable box*/ display:block; height:30px; overflow:auto; width:90%; padding:2px; border:1px solid gray; margin:5px; }  Hope this may be useful to others. —SMALLJIM 17:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC) ## Scripts not working Hey everyone, I have a problem and apparently I'm not the only one. Ever since we rolled out the 1.17 interface, none of the scripts that I have in vector for .js and .css are working. Am I the only one having this problem because it is quite annoying to not having anything working. If anyone can help me asking something that has probably been asked a million times before, that would be more than terrific. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:29, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Please provide a link to a specific script that's not working, along with the line number on which it is failing. For general questions, try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject User scripts. —UncleDouggie (talk) 04:49, 5 March 2011 (UTC) You could remove everytihng and add things back gradually until you find out which script is causing the issues. At least that way, you would get some things working. -- WOSlinker (talk) 08:56, 5 March 2011 (UTC) I removed one line that was generating an error. diff. Hope it's better now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC) I posted last week that my background color had stopped working--someone had to update the code for me. Is that an example of a .css script not working? Aristophanes68 (talk) 13:18, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Yeah a lot of CSS scripts won't work anymore until they are updated. I'm sure a lot of people will have to update their CSS but probably don't know how. Classes and IDs are more specific now, which I guess ultimately is a good thing. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:15, 5 March 2011 (UTC) To everyone: Douggie, they all don't work. WOS, that's a good idea but that will take a long time with the number I have. Thanks DJ! Gary, do we have a timeline on when people might do that? I have no idea how to do scripts but I would help if I knew how to do it. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 23:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC) I'm in the same boat as you, Kevin. Basically every script at User:Airplaneman/vector.js except the new page patrol script seems to have stopped working. I've tried everything in my relatively limited technical arsenal, including switching back to monobook, different browsers, and different computers (and operating systems). I'm quite clueless as to why they aren't functioning, as others seem to be managing fine after the switch to 1.17. For example, others are still able to use User:Rami_R/rfppClerk.js to clerk WP:RFPP; however, it no longer shows up in my edit window. Airplaneman 04:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC) I just added User:Dr_pda/prosesize.js to my vector.js and it's working fine. Nice tool BTW, thanks. —UncleDouggie (talk) 06:17, 6 March 2011 (UTC) I reordered the scripts in my vector and that fixed it. Now I have to find which one is breaking all of the ones after it. Airplaneman 00:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC) ## Curious http://stats.grok.se/en/201012/ANALOG_COMPUTER Rich Farmbrough, 12:48, 5 March 2011 (UTC). Interesting, I suppose, if you can pull it up, but I get a time out. My system hasn't been able to open the stats for at least 14 hours now, due to "a problem loading". I assume the link you provided is part of that. Maile66 (talk) 15:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Google's cache - Kingpin13 (talk) 15:29, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Un huh. And is the "curious" factor the number of views about a technology that most people would consider passe? Maile66 (talk) 16:02, 5 March 2011 (UTC) The curious factor is that the page gets an average of about 500 or so views a day, but then on the fifteenth gets 450,000. - Kingpin13 (talk) 16:43, 5 March 2011 (UTC) • The stats.grok.se website has been slow to respond, all day. However, several articles have experienced a 1-day spike in pageviews, on various days over the past 3 years, such as 449,000 for "analog computer" on December 15, 2010 (upper/lower-case titles are counted together). A topic such as "Amanda Knox" gets a spike when worldwide news has reported another analysis of the knife DNA, or a university will dismantle the knife handle (or such), or when the Lifetime (TV network) broadcast a new film about her (Feb. 21, 2011), then the pageviews spiked to 28,000 and 35,000 next day (rather than 700 per day). When a spike runs over 200,000 per day, then I suspect an automated re-request for the page, perhaps just 1 bot-user (multiple times per second). One day contains only 86,400 seconds (60*60*24), so perhaps multiple bot-users are hitting the page to reach 449,000 pageviews on Dec. 15, to then drop to only 595 pageviews on Dec. 16. I have no reason to believe the stats program is "stuck in a loop" because other spikes are clearly justified, such as all the "Twilight (film)" topics have spiked near the release of the next vampire/werewolf film in the series. -Wikid77 19:05, 5 March 2011 (UTC) Judging by Google Blog Search, it looks like there were several stories about the Antikythera mechanism around that time. The Antikythera mechanism article shows a smaller traffic spike to 21.7k on Dec. 11, 2010 and "analog computer" is prominently linked from that article. So perhaps this is related somehow. I.e., the Antikythera mechanism was in the news and some high-traffic site linked to the WP article about analog computers for a day. --Morn (talk) 13:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC) ## Help I do not know how to properly edit a user page and this keeps happening: Places Lived;  This user comes from COLOMBIA.  This user lives in the U.S. State of Florida, the Sunshine State.  This user is originally from the United States, but lives in Canada.  This user is a Wikipedian in Canada.  This user is a Wikipedian in Ontario.  This user comes from the City of Toronto. Personal info  This user is an omnivore.  Hershey's This user loves Hershey's Chocolate Bars Projects  This user is a member of WikiProject Urban studies and planning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThisguyYEAH (talkcontribs) 19:52, 6 March 2011 Add {{clear}} after each set. See also Wikipedia:User page design center. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:02, 6 March 2011 (UTC) Try adding {{userboxtop}} and {{userboxbottom}} above and below userbox templates to group them; as mentioned by Gadget, there are more options presented at UPDC. Airplaneman 05:09, 7 March 2011 (UTC) ## Has there been a change to MediaWiki that I've missed I've noticed in the last couple of days a couple of strange implementations involving class=infobox, such as here and here. I was wondering if there is a workaround, and/or if anyone could point me in the direction of the appropriate discussion. Thanks in advance, —WFC— 10:38, 7 March 2011 (UTC) The infobox width has been changed to 22 em recently. I don't recall what it was, but it was a bit small than that before. 11:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC) Add style="width:180px;" or style="width:auto;" after class="infobox". -- WOSlinker (talk) 11:21, 7 March 2011 (UTC) I inadvertantly broke it again, not realising that it had already been fixed! Thanks for the help! —WFC— 15:39, 7 March 2011 (UTC) ## Gadget not working properly on one page Some time ago, I enabled the metadata gadget, and aside from minor caching issues, it's always worked fine. To my surprise, it just now told me that Wikipedia is an unassessed article, and it still tells me this, even though I've purged. Any idea what's going on? The talk page has been correctly tagged as a GA for months. Nyttend (talk) 14:36, 7 March 2011 (UTC) ## Is there a way to customize the editing interface buttons? I don't use 90% of the buttons. On the other hand, I'd really like to link some to certain templates and such I often use (welcome, assessment, etc.). Is there a way to do so? -- 18:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC) You can add buttons to the toolbar with User:MarkS/Extra edit buttons. You can add custom templates to Wikipedia:Friendly. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:39, 7 March 2011 (UTC) I used to use MarkS buttons but they were not maintained in ages, and broke for me wen the new edit buttons were introduced :( -- 21:08, 7 March 2011 (UTC) They still work in monobook, with all the new "beta features" disabled. –xenotalk 21:09, 7 March 2011 (UTC) ## Talk page links in contribs When viewing a user's contribs, you see something like: 18:16, 7 March 2011 (diff | hist) m Lynn Margulis ‎ (clean up using AWB) (top) Is there any scripts that can add the talk page link as well, like on Special:Watchlist/edit? Sort of like: 18:16, 7 March 2011 (diff | talk | hist) m Lynn Margulis ‎ (clean up using AWB) (top) This would be handy. :) Avicennasis @ 19:06, 1 Adar II 5771 / 7 March 2011 (UTC) Script: User:Gary King/contribs alt link.js. I assume you know how to install since you already have scripts installed, but just in case, I'll tell you how, anyway. Go to your skin's page, then add the following line to it: importScript('User:Gary King/contribs alt link.js'); // [[User:Gary King/contribs alt link.js]]  And you're done. Don't forget to bypass your cache. Gary King (talk · scripts) 02:09, 8 March 2011 (UTC) Awesome, exactly what I was looking for! I checked Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts first, and I didn't see it there - perhaps you should add it. :) Thanks. Avicennasis @ 03:34, 2 Adar II 5771 / 8 March 2011 (UTC) Added Gary King (talk · scripts) 03:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC) ## Need some JS help I'm trying to incorporate css3pie that enables some CSS3 features for IE7 and 8, to turn into a gadget eventually. I need a little helper script to enumerate all elements that have any of these CSS properties: border-radius or box-shadow, or contain the CSS value *linear-gradient, and then append the classname .css3pie to those elements. I think any javascript programmer needs but two minutes to so this. (I would need two hours to research.) Many thanks. Edokter (talk) — 19:19, 7 March 2011 (UTC) This should do the trick: $('*').each(function()
{
if (hasCssProperty($(this), 'border-radius') || hasCssProperty($(this), 'box-shadow') || hasCssProperty($(this), 'linear-gradient')) {$(this).addClass('css3pie');
}

function hasCssProperty(node, property)
{
if ((node.css(property) && node.css(property) != 'none') || (node.attr('style') && node.attr('style').indexOf(property) != -1)) return true;
else return false;
}
});

Gary King (talk · scripts) 21:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Does this catch linear-gradient as a CSS value (as it is a value of the background-image property)? Edokter (talk) — 22:13, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
No; try this:
$('*').each(function() { if (hasCssProperty($(this), 'border-radius') || hasCssProperty($(this), 'box-shadow') ||$(this).css('background-image').indexOf('linear-gradient') != -1)
{
}

function hasCssProperty(node, property)
{
if ((node.css(property) && node.css(property) != 'none') || (node.attr('style') && node.attr('style').indexOf(property) != -1)) return true;
else return false;
}
});

Gary King (talk · scripts) 22:30, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Background-image with a gradient still doesn't seem to get caught. Also, what is the difference between node.css(property) and node.attr('style')? They both seem to work independently. Edokter (talk) — 23:37, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I know what the problem is; IE does not recognize (-moz-)linear-gradient (inserted by {{gradient}}) as a valid value for background-image and dumps it, so it is never found. Edokter (talk) — 23:52, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
node.css checks for CSS applied via a stylesheet, while .attr('style') checks for inline styles, I believe. Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:35, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## What is the "*" usergroup?

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<api>
<query>
<users>
<user name="West.andrew.g" editcount="8376" gender="male">
<groups>
<g>*</g>
<g>user</g>
<g>autoconfirmed</g>
<g>reviewer</g>
<g>rollbacker</g>
</groups>
</user>
</users>
</query>
</api>


Thanks, West.andrew.g (talk) 00:13, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Errr, I now see that this is being discussed in the thread immediately above. Thanks, West.andrew.g (talk) 00:29, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
'*' is all users. Prodego talk 05:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## Citation templates now support more identifiers

Recent changes were made to citations templates (such as {{citation}}, {{cite journal}}, {{cite web}}...). In addition to what was previously supported (bibcode, doi, jstor, isbn, ...), templates now support arXiv, ASIN, JFM, LCCN, MR, OL, OSTI, RFC, SSRN and Zbl. Before, you needed to place |id={{arxiv|0123.4567}} (or worse |url=http://arxiv.org/abs/0123.4567), now you can simply use |arxiv=0123.4567, likewise for |id={{JSTOR|0123456789}} and |url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/0123456789|jstor=0123456789.

The full list of supported identifiers is given here (with dummy values):

• {{cite journal |author=John Smith |year=2000 |title=How to Put Things into Other Things |journal=Journal of Foobar |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=3–4 |arxiv=0123456789 |asin=0123456789 |bibcode=0123456789 |doi=0123456789 |jfm=0123456789 |jstor=0123456789 |lccn=0123456789 |isbn=0123456789 |issn=0123456789 |mr=0123456789 |oclc=0123456789 |ol=0123456789 |osti=0123456789 |rfc=0123456789 |pmc=0123456789 |pmid=0123456789 |ssrn=0123456789 |zbl=0123456789 |id={{para|id|____}} }}

Obviously not all citations needs all parameters, but this streamlines the most popular ones and gives both better metadata and better appearances when printed. 05:34, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## This wiki has a problem

Twice in the past few minutes I've gotten a mostly white screen that says the site is having technical difficulties. Since there's no URL, it's too hard for me to reproduce the message, but maybe the heading is enough.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:07, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, it's not a serious problem after all. It was a few days ago but I can't even remember which day. I suppose I could copy and paste the error message.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 22:23, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
"This wiki has a problem
Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.
(Cannot contact the database server: Can't connect to MySQL server on '10.0.6.43' (4))"
I'm getting that on the English and German Wikipedias right now. --Morn (talk) 08:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Am getting it on roughly 2/3 of pages here at en.wp in last 15 minutes. Ran a search, found a couple ANI threads on similar problems in past years, clicked on the links, and got: "This wiki has a problem". Fun fun fun. Rivertorch (talk) 08:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
That's probably it.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 14:19, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## JS issues

I copied User:Δ/editor.js from another user, a while back, however for a while now, (even before the 1.17 roll-out) its been causing two annoying bugs. It hides the check boxes for watch this page (making the page drop off my watchlist) and hides the minor edit check box when editing, the second major issue is that it makes it impossible for me to use the new section tab because it garbles/hides the edit text box. This is a very powerful and useful tool, and I would like to see these issues resolved, however I am clueless when it comes to javascript. any assistance would be welcome. ΔT The only constant 02:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I suggest upgrading to wikEd instead, which is the successor to the script that you are using. It is also compatible with 1.17, has more features, etc. Gary King (talk · scripts) 02:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
WikiEd does too much, I much prefer my basic minimal tool. ΔT The only constant 03:41, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
In that case, you might want to talk to User:Cacycle, who created the script you are using. He might have a better idea of what's going on than most people, since his script is fairly complex and would therefore take less time if he himself diagnosed the problem rather than someone unfamiliar with this script. Gary King (talk · scripts) 03:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
This script was the predecessor of wikEd and has not been updated for five years. (As a sidenote, that means that wikEd will have its five-year anniversary this year!). As stated on User:Cacycle/editor, this software is no longer actively maintained and I have no capacities to debug this outdated program. If someone else wants to dive into it: the code wraps and rearranges existing pages elements on startup, which is somewhat sensitive to changes in the page structure. The problem is probably somewhere below the line "// add elements to buttonsWrapper". However, the best bet would be to switch to wikEd. Cacycle (talk) 07:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## long captions leading to ugly infoboxes

At the top of the smallpox article there is a captioned picture in an infobox. The caption is quite long and leads to a very wide infobox with broad expanses of blank space on either side of the picture. Is this being caused by a bug or something not being used correctly? Frotz (talk) 06:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

You could just tighten up the caption... Like rewrite it with less words. --Jayron32 06:31, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I saw what you were talking about, but now it appears to be working just fine. Odd. EVula // talk // // 06:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I've seen this on other infoboxes, ones which have a parameter for setting the width; for example, {{Infobox rail line}}. In these cases, using |box_width=auto sets the width of the infobox to the length of the longest line; and so it prevents word-wrapping in captions, sometimes resulting in an over-wide infobox. Omitting the parameter entirely causes the default width to be used, as you might expect, so the caption word-wraps where appropriate; but the curious thing is that having the |box_width= parameter present, but blank, is exactly the same as setting it to "auto". --Redrose64 (talk) 23:31, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## Editing duplicates, abbreviates, and scrambles sections

I apologize. I think I just destroyed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Silkie_of_Sule_Skerry by trying to edit it. Sections duplicated, disappeared, and scrambled. This is apparently an old bug, reported in 2007 and later to Bugzilla, so I am surprised to find it still with us.

How do I make amends? The ==Lyrics== section is gone, except for bits that appear elsewhere. This I can reproduce easily, but I'm not going to ty today, lest the discography that I cannot reproduce gets messed up too.Ferren (talk) 10:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• Someone reverted all those changes, back to the prior stable revision. When scrambled, then quit an erroneous edit and re-start editing whenever the edit-preview looks scrambled. If your browser is defective, you might want to download the free Firefox browser. Meanwhile, you will probably need to discuss any song changes on the talk-page, plus identify the source(s) about Jim Waters (or James Waters) having written a variation of the tune, because Joan Baez did not credit him in her 1960's recording (perhaps thinking the tune and lyrics were both traditional). So, perhaps add a new topic under:
Talk:The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry - add a topic about authors of the tunes
I know it can be frustrating how the article has not already identified the tunes behind the lyrics, but Wikipedia has some huge gaps in the subjects it covers. I recently had to write the entire article for the song "Old Rosin the Beau" (after "Rosin the Bow") because there had been nothing (at all!) in Wikipedia about those famous old songs. -Wikid77 13:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## "from" targets not working in at least some categories

When I browse the Living_people category right now, it's not positioning correctly using the "from= " parameter; it's only taking the first letter thereof. For example:

take you to exactly the same page.

On this huge category, (and any that use the LargeCategoryTOC template), the TOC sublinks don't take you where you expect anymore. Studerby (talk) 22:40, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Believe this is related to #categorically random categories above. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Has been mentioned to developers, I think, as bug #4912 (see bottom comments). A significant upgrade is coming, I suspect it was broken so it could be built up again. Regards, - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 22:47, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

## Fix bunching and old browsers

After changes to MediaWiki:common.css, it was declared that the edit link bunching problem had been solved. I have been doing some testing, and as far as I can tell, this is basically true. However, there are minor issues with multiple left and/or right floating elements, but that can be addressed by stacking them together using {{stack}} or {{stack begin}}/{{stack end}} (basically, if you float something on the right, then float something on the left, it is unable to float up higher than the last element floated on the opposite side). Recently, it was brought to my attention by User:Anotherclown that there are other issues, particularly with older versions of Internet Explorer (e.g., IE6). I don't have this browser, so I cannot check, and found no differences using this. Could someone tell me if you see any differences in the top two floating boxes on say this page and this page? I see no differences between the two. If you do see a difference, please tell me which browser you are using, and if possible, provide a screenshot. This would be helpful in providing a uniform browsing experience for all users. Thank you! Frietjes (talk) 21:46, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Looking on the oldest versions I've got available here... Seems to render OK on IE7.0xx , Chrome 8.4xx, and Firefox 2.0.1xx - maybe not as old as you're looking for, but hope that helps. Skier Dude (talk) 05:18, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
You can test IE6 by using Microsoft Expression Web SuperPreview.[3] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 05:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I will check that out. I am still wondering what exactly is going wrong with the formatting. I haven't see any editor other than Anotherclown adding this template, post changes to Common.css. Thank you. Frietjes (talk) 22:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

## categorytree

I have noticed our cat-trees are not functioning properly.Moxy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC).

<categorytree>Wikipedia</categorytree>

=

Probably related to #categorically random categories. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 17:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to respond,Moxy (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

## Template:Convert garbage output

What's going wrong here? Can someone fix this? Thanks. --Morn (talk) 20:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't see "Gcuft" in the list of supported units. Ntsimp (talk) 21:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
It redirects to Template:Convert/e9cuft, i.e. billion cubic feet. But something with that subtemplate seems to be amiss. --Morn (talk) 21:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The problem is with {{convert/outsep}}. It needs some kind of {{#iferror: ...}} function for handling scientific notation. I would fix it, but it's protected. Frietjes (talk) 22:33, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The following is the crux of the problem
{{convert/outsep| 1={{formatnum:{{formatnum:{{rnd/e+|4.35|0|10}}}}}}| sep= |2=m<sup>3</sup>|3=m<sup>3</sup>}}


which currently produces {{convert/outsep| 1={{formatnum:{{formatnum:{{rnd/e+|4.35|0|10}}}}}}| sep= |2=m<sup>3</sup>|3=m<sup>3</sup>}}

The {{rnd/e+}} template creates 4.35E-10×1010, but {{convert/outsep}} assumes this is a number in a format which can be parsed with {{#expr:}}, and hence the error. This could be fixed by making outsep do something smart when the number isn't one which can be passed to an expr parser. Frietjes (talk) 22:53, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I have made a change in the sandbox, but need an admin to copy it to the live template (see Template talk:convert/outsep). Thank you! Frietjes (talk) 23:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for finding and explaining the problem, Frietjes! Some of these templates are getting a bit of a nightmare to debug. --Morn (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Now fixed by Boing! said Zebedee. Thank you. Frietjes (talk) 00:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out how to make CSS drop down menus on Wikipedia and I've gotten this far.

<div class="vectorMenu">
<ul>
<li>[[WP:VPR]]</li>
<li>[[WP:VPP]]</li>
<li>[[WP:VPT]]</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>


Hovering over CSS-DropDownMenu above, sort of works in some browsers, but I know the code is wrong. I've been searching and can't find out how to do this properly. Can anybody help?- Hydroxonium (H3O+) 03:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

May I suggest you to start with fixing CSS in your signature because your user name is not the most important part of discussion pages? — AlexSm 03:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
That was a bit inappropriate, Alex. It's actually not a bad design for a signature, since it will stand out against large bodies of text, allowing people to more easily determine who wrote what message. demize (t · c) 03:58, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
There is always this option ... to use a signature like <span class=my_user_name>...</span> and apply any colors in one's personal css file. Then the signature will stand out just for that user (and for his/her friends who actually agreed to use the same CSS and to see this rainbow). — AlexSm 04:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Signature changed. Any help with the CSS drop down menu is greatly appreciated. - Hydroxonium (talk) 04:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

On a small aside, I'm not sure why you're wrapping the ul in a div... They're both block level elements (in css2/html4...) and you can move the class to the ul. --Izno (talk) 19:25, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Probably because the script is looking for div.menu. Moving the class just shows the menu permanently. Edokter (talk) — 20:30, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
The code above is a simple manipulation of the Move page code in Vector. I used that CSS drop-down code because it was easy to find. I am completely ignorant in this area and I'm looking for an example that I can learn from. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (talk) 07:34, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "CSS drop down menus on Wikipedia". You cannot put that menu on "public" pages anyway because it will only work in Vector skin. For personal use, it looks like there is nothing wrong with the code (except that it's a hack that might break with changes in Vector skin) as long as it works in your browser. — AlexSm 17:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Yep, it's for my userpage, not articles. I'm just starting to learn style sheets, so I'm ignorant about CSS and may get this wrong. I believe the HTML elements use class and id to get formatting information from style sheets, which have been set up at places like MediaWiki:Common.css and MediaWiki:Vector.css. I think a bunch of style sheets get loaded by http://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php but I'm not sure which ones and some are skin dependent (vector, monobook, etc.). Wikipedia:Catalogue of CSS classes is out of date so I haven't been able to determine which get loaded and which can be used for a drop-down menu. The class="vectorMenu" looks like it comes from MediaWiki:Vector.css, but I don't understand it by looking at vector.css. I also can't find where class="menu" comes from.
You are correct, the code above was hacked together just to show an example, and is likely to break in the future, plus it shows the little down arrow in the text. I have seen proper CSS drop down menus on user pages many months ago, but have been unable to find them again. I'm sure somebody knows how to do this properly so that it is less likely to break in the future. I'm just starting to learn this stuff, so any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (talk) 08:43, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Local messages like Vector.css only apply some local (for enwiki) fixes and features, the core CSS/JS files are shared between all Wikimedia projects and are located elsewhere. The "Catalogue" is outdated indeed, so I added some info how to find current CSS and JS files. The file collapsibleTabs.js might also be relevant to Vector tabs although I'm not sure.
Since this menu is for your personal use you could search for something like "simple CSS dropdown menu" on the web and then copy HTML to your user (sub)page and CSS into your common.css or vector.css. Or you could use the existing CSS from vector skin CSS file like in the example above. Personally, I haven't seen user pages with CSS menus. — AlexSm 18:19, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. I was completely unaware of the SVN part of the project. This gives me a lot of good examples to learn from. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (talk) 23:12, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

## Something wrong with popups?

For some reason whenever I hover or a username, it says they're unregistered even though they are. For example if I hover over my username it says I'm unregistered. It doesn't show account creation date, number of edits, and user rights anymore. Elockid (Talk) 22:37, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Works for me? What browser are you using? Are you loading it thru the gadget or your javascript page? Perhaps try switching to the other method. –xenotalk 22:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
It's also not showing user information for me, too, starting a few hours ago. It looks like the script hasn't been updated for a few weeks, though. Perhaps a problem with the API at the moment? Gary King (talk · scripts) 22:46, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Yep, the API is indeed broken. Gary King (talk · scripts) 22:50, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I tried using both Chrome and Firefox 3.6.15. Both are the same. I'm loading it thru the gadget. Let me try the javascript page. Elockid (Talk) 22:48, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ditto, broken for me too. It works if the user is blocked. - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:51, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
... which is odd ;). API is the same as popups, as Gary said (so API also works if the user is blocked). So definitely not a popups issue. - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I am having this problem also. It was not occuring yesterday. I also knoiw that, since the software update, the popups display even the unnecessary user rights for any user that has special user rights, e. g. a user that previously only displayed the "reviewer" or "sysop" permission(s) now also displays "*, user, autoconformed". This does not occur with users who have no special user rights (like me). [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 23:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
It was working fine for me today but it only started maybe an hour or two ago. I also tried some other ways, but they don't seem to be working either. Elockid (Talk) 23:08, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Same problem here. Chrome 9.0.597.107. T. Canens (talk) 23:14, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
It's not browser specific, it's a problem with the actual output from the API. Apparently it was being worked on, and seems to be fixed now. - Kingpin13 (talk) 23:17, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Okay it's working for me now. Elockid (Talk) 23:19, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

• While we have all these great minds on the subject, perhaps someone could stop it outputting the silly "*", "user", and "autoconfirmed", as results for usergroups =) –xenotalk 23:26, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Mentioned here a few weeks ago. Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:07, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
It is rather annoying. Should we just change pop-ups to filter out those groups and be done with it? —UncleDouggie (talk) 01:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Done [4] - Kingpin13 (talk) 08:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Correction: Almost done. ;-) You forgot the "autoconfirmed" user group. ;-) Actually, displaying the "autoconfirmed" user group might not be such a bad idea, but we should display it for even users that do not have any special user rights, if we were going to display it. ;-) [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 02:50, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Is it possible to suppress the display of "autoconfirmed" with an option - or only display it when it is the only usergroup? It's rather redundant otherwise. –xenotalk 15:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The problem is that the API is only returning the autoconfirmed group if the user also has other groups. Since we can't reliably get the autoconfirmed status for everyone, we should always filter it to avoid misleading people. I have prepared two modified versions of the pop-ups script:
• Filter out "autoconfirmed": Script (diff)
• Filter out "autoconfirmed" and replace "sysop" with "admin": Script (diff)
Take your pick and copy it to MediaWiki:Gadget-popups.js. I made the second version because we rarely use the sysop term anymore and it's probably confusing to newer users. —UncleDouggie (talk) 22:49, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I did intentionally leave out autoconfirmed, since it could be useful. But whatever suits really, it doesn't exactly bother me if it's one way or the other. - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
If the user has any other group, we already know they are autoconfirmed and if they don't have another group, the API doesn't tell us they are autoconfirmed. So, there are no cases where it's useful and it's more likely to be misleading. —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Done, thanks. I picked door number 1 since renaming one user group is opening a can of worms: Popups is imported directly from other language versions of Wikipedia, WikiMedia sister projects, and even many private MediaWiki installations -- many of those would be confused by changing sysop to admin. Proper way would be to pull the display names from the messages (MediaWiki:Group-autoreviewer-member et. al.). Patch for that (should handle that request somewhat economically) is very welcome. :) Amalthea 10:01, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, both =) –xenotalk 16:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
MediaWiki:Group-sysop-member is set to "administrator". I don't think anyone wants to see that in their popup! If we did something like this, we would need to cache the lookups to make it efficient. We could just detect that we're on en.wikipedia and only substitute in that case. —UncleDouggie (talk) 20:49, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

There is also an issue with the action "revert" using popups. Normally when choosing "revert" the popups action includes pressing the save button. Lately the save button is not pressed through popups and I have to do it manually. Further the popup revert edit summary sometimes varies, from "revert to revision prior to revision...etc." to "revert to version by "editor name"...". Any idea why? Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:00, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I just did two reverts and both auto-saved. I don't know why the edit summary is sometimes different. —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:09, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you UncleDouggie. I lost the auto-save ability a few day ago. I'll try again and see what happens. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:13, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Works fine in Chrome, doesn't work for me in IE. Shouldn't the revert function should be using the API anyway? - Kingpin13 (talk) 23:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
That's odd. It used to work with Chrome but now it doesn't for me. However it works with Firefox and the edit summary refers to: "revert to version by "editor name"...". I am not sure what the API has to do with it. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
It works for me in FireFox. I haven't tested any other browsers, although I do have them all. Of course it should be using the API. Reverting or other features might even break when HTML 5 gets turned back on. However, I've got my hands full with the Twinkle rewrite at the moment. —UncleDouggie (talk) 23:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Here is an example of different edit summaries using the same browser and the revert function in popups: [5] and [6]. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 23:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
If I get the time I may attempt to re-write this to use the API, no promises though, so if anyone else wants to please be my guest :) - Kingpin13 (talk) 00:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much Kingpin13. But no pressure. :) Dr.K. λogosπraxis 00:38, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
A few things about moving to the API: When fixing redirects, there is an option named popupRedirAutoClick that let's you select either the Save, Diff, or Preview button to be auto-clicked. A straight API interface obviously wouldn't have this functionality and would just auto-save. Revert doesn't have this option and I believe it is expected to just always auto-save, unless there is some other option that I'm missing or that isn't documented. In addition, when using the API to save an edit, it is important to add the optional md5 hash. Not doing so has caused corrupted pages in the past if the call is interrupted when using Twinkle. Twinkle has long had a hack workaround for the issue, but I'm going to add in the proper hash support as part of the rewrite. —UncleDouggie (talk) 03:16, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

## Problem with mobile site today?

Resolved: Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:36, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Is there a problem with the mobile version of the site today? These three Help Desk threads could use some input: one, two, three. Since my mobile only does telephone calls I'm a bit stuck. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't working a day or two ago, then worked again, then stopped working today for me, as well. I'm not sure what's going on since the MobileRedirect.js file seems to look fine. Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Two more threads at the Help desk this morning. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:53, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Bump. Other stuck users are posting at Wikipedia talk:Enable mobile version. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
This entry in the Server admin log looks hopeful. Can anyone confirm whether the mobile version is now working? -- John of Reading (talk) 17:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
It's not working for me, even after clearing cookies and cache. I think MobileRedirect.js was moved recently from the bottom of the page to the top, which maybe caused this problem, although I can't see why. Gary King (talk · scripts) 17:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Okay figured it out. wgPageName is not defined in MobileRedirect.js because it's defined at the bottom of the page. Gary King (talk · scripts) 17:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Reported as a bug. Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Fixed. Vars were added to the header. A hack, really, but it works. Gary King (talk · scripts) 18:36, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

## Any tools to assist in combining references?

Are there any automated tools to combine duplicate references (or to summon a bot to do so)? On a misspelling patrol I stumbled onto Kevin Rodney Sullivan which has at least four instances of identical references being cited more than once (one cited at least 8 times). TJRC (talk) 00:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Done ΔT The only constant 00:35, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your attention to the example. I still have the question, however: are there any automated tools to do this? I find a lot of cases like this, and hate to post here every time. TJRC (talk) 01:06, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Drop a note on my talk page, Ive got a few tools that help with this, but they are not stable enough for public usage. ΔT The only constant 01:11, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. If anyone's aware of any tools to accomplish this. I'd still like to know about them. TJRC (talk) 01:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
*cough*Reflinks*cough* — Dispenser 06:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I used to use Reflinks a lot, before I started using the citation templates more consistently. I wasn't aware that it did this. TJRC (talk) 06:45, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
There is logic in AWB genfixes too. To run there must already be one or more uses of named references. Rjwilmsi 16:08, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

## weird message in Dutch

Yesterday I loaded this revision of ANI (which now displays just fine if you click on the link) and saw a big red banner at the bottom saying "Citefout: De tag <ref> bestaat, maar de tag <references/> is niet aangetroffen. There was in fact a ref tag in one of the incident reports (pasted from an article) with no <references/> but the weird part was the Dutch error message. I haven't seen it again since then. Maybe it was just a busted template that someone fixed, maybe some other sort of problem. 75.57.242.120 (talk) 07:43, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

This might be related: Talk:Challenger Deep#obvious error. Hans Adler 07:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
That is the Dutch version of MediaWiki:Cite error refs without references (you won't see text unless you edit it as it uses a template). It should show only when your language is set to nl, then you would see MediaWiki:Cite error refs without references/nl. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:13, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
And I don't have a clue why you would see the nl interface page if you language is set to en. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes. I use Dutch as my interface language for English Wikipedia and I get that all the time. There's special logic in the English message set to suppress the error when the page isn't in article space. That logic isn't included in the Dutch message set.—Kww(talk) 16:17, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Then you are missing all of the custom interface pages, as the majority of the non-English interfaces at the default. For example, the error in question has a link to a help page, but only when the language is set to en. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I should be clear: since I read and edit without using a Wikipedia account, I don't have any preferences settings to adjust. I can't use anything but the defaults, whatever they are. That's why I thought the Dutch message was so weird. 75.57.242.120 (talk) 21:45, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

## Subcategories sorting

I think this is a technical query: Why when I create new subcategories, are they not sorted with others starting with the same first number or first (upper-case) letter: Hugo999 (talk) 10:34, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

This looks to be related to the #categorically random categories thread, above. -- John of Reading (talk) 10:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I removed some superfluous links, such as [[human height|height]] from template {{adult bio}} about a week ago, but a 'what links here' against human height still show it linking to most of the articles that use that template (hundreds of them). I was vaguely under the impression that a batch job comes along and updates the linking info from time to time - does this happen? Colonies Chris (talk) 10:51, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Known problem, join the party at Help talk:Job queue#Where's it gone? --Redrose64 (talk) 11:21, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
And I've been waiting three weeks for a couple of my template edits to expand out. So, yes, join the party. Maile66 (talk) 12:07, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

## Number of External Links on en.Wikipedia

If I recall right, there is a DB-table which tracks external links on Wikipedia. Could someone with toolserver(?) or similar access just run a COUNT(*) for me that calculates this (or something similar)? Many thanks, West.andrew.g (talk) 02:38, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

The answer along with discussion is here. —UncleDouggie (talk) 05:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, UD. West.andrew.g (talk) 06:02, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

## strange formatting on Spathiphyllum floribundum page

Just went to the page for Spathiphyllum floribundum and the formatting is all wonky. No sidebar, limited styles. Looks like Internet circa 1994. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.186.4.102 (talk) 00:49, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Never mind looks fixed now.

I am seeing the same thing - then not seeing it. It's not only here but on Wiktionary, also. Perhaps the foundation of the Foundation is under attack construction. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 13:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Specifically, this Photobucket image is what I saw on the Pedia, only full screen. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 14:57, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I am seeing the same thing on the page for Lena Herzog -- but after clicking the "edit" link for one of the sections, the formatting was fixed. However, when I switched to a different browser, I saw the same incorrect formatting. Looks just like the Photobucket image uploaded above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.234.32.5 (talk) 20:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Have come across this twice today here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Foster_(director) and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodger,_Bonzo_and_the_Rest —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.201.196.10 (talk) 10:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

This is all over the place. Just clicking 'random' I found: Ngau Chi Wan, Handsome Devil, Zainab Kamel Ali, Bill Whitney, Brødrene Dal (series), Ivan Jevtić, Abdelkarim Zebidi. It seems to be more than 1 in 10 that's broken. Something in the underlying pages is seriously broken here. Edit: Yet now they look fine when clicking on the links.. What's going on? --80.217.157.29 (talk) 23:16, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
All of those pages are displaying normally for me (using monobook skin). Rivertorch (talk) 23:28, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Is this one of those problems that only shows up for unregistered (and logged out) users? That is, does the problem only appear on cached pages? Logged-in users will get pages that are largely freshly-built (see archived thread), but for users not logged in, any problem which may have occurred in the past few days or weeks (but has since been sorted) may still exist on the cached pages. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:17, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

## Another software bug

I hate to beat a dead horse, but should I report this? The software is misreporting the number of subcategories in Category:Wikipedia files with a different name on Wikimedia Commons (it's saying 221) and truncating the display of them; Category:Wikipedia files on Wikimedia Commons correctly reports it as 221 subcategories. It's been doing this for a day or two now, ever since the number got below ~300. Magog the Ogre (talk) 10:05, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Any categorisation problems (whether mis-sorted, incorrect counts, not all pages showing) are likely related to #categorically random categories above. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible to search for a word and restrict the search to headings? My question is motivated by seeing a section called "Commentary" in Righthaven LLC. This doesn't strike me as appropriate, but I'd like to see if it is common. Simply searching for the word brings up many hits, but the term is often appropriate in main text. (It can even be appropriate in a heading, e.g. Audio commentary) I plan to question the one instance I've noticed, but I'd like to know if it occurs elsewhere. (I tried searching for "search in headings" in the archives, but didn't see anything useful.)--SPhilbrickT 13:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

## Edit count as of a specific date

Is it possible to get an edit count for an editor as of a particular date? I think I'm looking at ~100 editors (and therefore ~100 different dates), so I'd like something reasonably automated. As an example, I'd like to know how much experience this editor had when he created this page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Drop me a list on my talk page and I can run a db query. ΔT The only constant 16:33, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

So you aren't beholden to any particular user.
SELECT COUNT(*) AS "Edit count", COUNT(DISTINCT rev_page) AS "Different pages"
FROM revision
WHERE rev_user_text = "Tobit2"
AND rev_timestamp < "20090426110000";

Edit count was 895 edit across 367 different pages. Mind you that might not be allowed under German privacy law. This is why we can't have nice tools. — Dispenser 17:58, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

## 32K

I remember there use to be a warning about how browsers may crash on older systems and so it would be better to split articles that were over 32K and recent changes to Wikipedia have got rid of this. Could i ask for it to be brought back, on talk pages, in archives and on pages with user discussions? That way it would be better to know when to archive a page. Is this the best place to request this oin VP? Simply south...... 21:48, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I already made a request at what used to be the best place for these discussions: WP:MediaWiki messages#Movepagetext, Moveuserpage-warning, Longpagewarning but I guess it's not anymore. — AlexSm 22:05, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

## "Bug in an extension"

I reverted vandalism on 2011_Sendai_earthquake_and_tsunami and got this error message when the article was reloading:

Extended content
MediaWiki internal error.

Original exception: exception 'MWException' with message 'Detected bug in an extension! Hook VectorHooks::makeGlobalVariablesScript failed to return a value; should return true to continue hook processing or false to abort.' in /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Hooks.php:187
Stack trace:
#0 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Skin.php(456): wfRunHooks('MakeGlobalVaria...', Array)
#1 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/OutputPage.php(2460): Skin::makeGlobalVariablesScript('vector')
#3 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/SkinTemplate.php(452): Skin->bottomScripts(Object(OutputPage))
#4 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/OutputPage.php(1721): SkinTemplate->outputPage(Object(OutputPage))
#5 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Wiki.php(372): OutputPage->output()
#6 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/index.php(115): MediaWiki->finalCleanup(Object(OutputPage))
#7 /usr/local/apache/common-local/live-1.5/index.php(3): require('/usr/local/apac...')
#8 {main}

Exception caught inside exception handler: exception 'MWException' with message 'Detected bug in an extension! Hook VectorHooks::makeGlobalVariablesScript failed to return a value; should return true to continue hook processing or false to abort.' in /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Hooks.php:187
Stack trace:
#0 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Skin.php(456): wfRunHooks('MakeGlobalVaria...', Array)
#1 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/OutputPage.php(2460): Skin::makeGlobalVariablesScript('vector')
#3 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/SkinTemplate.php(452): Skin->bottomScripts(Object(OutputPage))
#4 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/OutputPage.php(1721): SkinTemplate->outputPage(Object(OutputPage))
#5 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Exception.php(189): OutputPage->output()
#6 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Exception.php(220): MWException->reportHTML()
#7 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Exception.php(325): MWException->report()
#8 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.17/includes/Exception.php(393): wfReportException(Object(MWException))
#9 [internal function]: wfExceptionHandler(Object(MWException))
#10 {main}


Is this just because of high load, or is there something else wrong here? PleaseStand (talk) 23:47, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps worth posting to Bugzilla. I've never seen this myself. Gary King (talk · scripts) 05:45, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

## Going to the previous non-minor/non-bot/etc of pages in the watchlist

I just found this out today after having "Hide bot edits from the watchlist" checked under Special:Preferences, that if a bot edits a page, then that page is then completely hidden from the watchlist until a non-bot edit is made. Wouldn't it make sense, instead of hiding a page from the watchlist when the most recent edit is a bot edit, to have the watchlist display the last non-bot edit instead? The same question pertains to minor edits, your own edits, or any other type of edits covered under Special:Preferences. –MuZemike 00:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

See bug 9790 Anomie 02:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

## Show edit toolbar

Hi. I've disabled this on EN wiki, but it's active on other language wikis. Is there a way of disabling it across all the other wiki sites in one go? Thanks. Lugnuts (talk) 08:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Anyone? Lugnuts (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
There is no global preferences system for the Wikimedia websites (I think there is some work in progress system, but it can only be used by the system administrators, has no interface and does not have all the prefs) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:57, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
It might be possible to create a bookmarklet to quickly set this option the first time you visit a wiki site or a Greasemonkey-type userscript to do it automatically. — AlexSm 23:11, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

## Cite label styles

As previously announced, we now have a way to change the labels in citations. This is now implemented and documented. For example, using the group name of "lower-alpha", the cite labels will use lower case alpha characters.

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center;"
|-
! 05/08
| 4266 || 7828 || 7282<ref group=lower-alpha name=elk1/> || 1105 || 224<ref group=lower-alpha name=elk2/> || 161 || 916<ref group=lower-alpha name=elk3/>|| 506 || 231 || 4127 || 6190 || 6487 || 1139 || 241 || 205 || 1165 || 478 || 301
|}

{{reflist |group=lower-alpha |refs=
<ref name=elk1>{{cite book |last=Elk |first=Anne |title=[[Anne Elk's Theory on Brontosauruses]] |date=November 16, 1972}}</ref>
<ref name=elk2>{{cite book |last=Elk |first=Anne |title=Anne Elk's Other Theory on Brontosauruses |date=November 16, 1972}}</ref>
<ref name=elk3>{{cite book |last=Elk |first=Anne |title=Anne Elk's Greater Theory on Brontosauruses |date=November 16, 1972}}</ref>}}

 05/08 4266 7828 7282[a] 1105 224[b] 161 916[c] 506 231 4127 6190 6487 1139 241 205 1165 478 301
1. ^ Elk, Anne (November 16, 1972). Anne Elk's Theory on Brontosauruses.
2. ^ Elk, Anne (November 16, 1972). Anne Elk's Other Theory on Brontosauruses.
3. ^ Elk, Anne (November 16, 1972). Anne Elk's Greater Theory on Brontosauruses.

Other styles are decimal, lower-greek and lower-roman. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:34, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Again: <3 --Golbez (talk) 16:56, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
• Are there any plans to list alpha footnotes as "a. b. c." rather than "1. 2. 3." (which look the same as decimal footnotes)? Compare the following ungrouped footnotes (1. 2.) to the 3 Elk footnotes above: [1][2]
1. ^ ungrouped 1
2. ^ ungrouped 2
Perhaps have a reflist option as number=a for alpha (a. b. c.), or number=i for lower Roman numerals (i. ii. iii. iv.) or number=g for Greek, number=1 for decimal. Also, if a ref name is misspelled, then it will be listed as a blank footnote. However, if one footnote omits the "group=lower-alpha", then it will appear as a number [1] (the next omitted shows [2], etc.) rather than having the expected letter. Is there an option to show an error message if a ref name is not defined as used (such as "elk222/"), rather than look for a blank footnote in the bottom list? -Wikid77 12:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
It seems you're quite confused.
• If you're not seeing the numbers in Gadget850's example above as "a. b. c.", either your browser doesn't correctly support the needed CSS, you need to bypass your cache, or you have a user script overriding it.
• Your example shouldn't use letters for the reflist, because the [1] indicators are not using letters.
• {{reflist}} chooses numbering style based on the |group=, just as <ref>...</ref> does. Although the mechanisms behind it are different (the latter is done by MediaWiki, while the former is done by CSS styling on the <ol>).
• Citation error messages show only on articles, userpages, template pages, category pages, help pages and file pages; they are hidden in other namespaces (including all talk namespaces) to avoid confusing people who might be easily confused by errors appearing when they copy and paste wikitext for discussion and get citation error messages. The error messages, when shown, are large and red unless overridden by your user CSS.
• The whole point of |group= is to group footnotes into different groups. Complaining that references go into the wrong group if you forget or screw up |group= is like going to a restaurant, ordering tea, and then getting upset that they brought you tea instead of coffee.
• Articles should probably stick with normal numbered footnotes for citations. Letters and other styles should only be used if the article needs a second grouping, for example how ASCII has special footnotes for its table of control characters.
HTH. Anomie 13:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to explain all the complex reasons why the various citation features are so unusual. There are numerous aspects of Wikipedia which are confusing, so I am not trying to dwell on citation problems alone. Rather than implicitly hiding error messages, perhaps the citations could have a parameter "<references showerror=no>" to allow talk-page discussions to show cases where the error messages appear. Despite the pain of using "<nowiki>", many people learn to suppress messages, where implicit hiding would be more confusing. Anyway, the complex, conditional operation of all the unusual citation features makes them less likely to be used. However, it is good to discuss these issues to better understand why people would not want to be bothered with the complex footnote problems. Just put letter "a" in brackets "[a]" and stick a related note at the bottom of a page; the letters are unlikely to change often. Again, thank you for taking the time to highlight the various problems. Perhaps some people can find other ways to simplify them. -Wikid77
• If you don't see the lower-alpha styling in my example after bypassing, then contact me on my talk page and let's troubleshoot this. You don't have any custom CSS or JS.
• If you invoke a reference, but do not define it anywhere, then you will get an error— that check has been in place since refnames were added.
• If you forget the group name in the invoked reference, then a cite error will display; this check was added with refgroups.
• As noted in WP:CITELABEL: "styled labels are generally used in tables, image captions, infoboxes and navboxes to separate them from regular footnotes."
---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Not that it matters much at this point but I don't really like this idea of different footnote styles. I think its going to be very confusing for readers when they look at one article and see one style and then look at 2 more and see 2 more styles. --Kumioko (talk) 15:45, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

## Can the "Wikipedia - the free encyclopedia" phrase appending behavior be eliminated when saving a Wikipedia link?

Saving a link via a browser address bar by dragging-and-dropping it onto a desktop or into a folder always has the phrase " - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" appended to the article topic to which the link points to. At most, the appended text should be only "Wikipedia" because the site is well beyond its unknown existence time. In a GUI environment, the link icon is enough and no appended text is necessary at all. Can this behavior be eliminated somehow? Is this a technical issue or a policy issue? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TechTony (talkcontribs) 16:01, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

A technical issue that has more to do with how the browsers implement that functionality than with how Wikipedia does. There's no way to fix that from our end (on a global basis, anyway), and I don't think Wikipedia would want to do so anyway. Sorry. :( --Izno (talk) 16:49, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Surely the phrase comes from Wikipedia somewhere/somehow, though. IMO, it's enough to just have 'Wikipedia', just like 'Cher' and 'Elvis' don't need further qualification. FWIW.
As a personal fix, you could try something like
document.title = document.title.replace(", the free encyclopedia","")
in your personal JS file. — AlexSm 16:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
It worked nicely, thank you. I eliminated the whole phrase. It only works when I'm logged-in though, of course, which I don't do usually when researching, but if that's what it takes, it's worth the effort to log in rather than renaming all those saved links. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TechTony (talkcontribs) 18:02, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Then you could instead create a Greasemonkey script that does the same thing. Reach Out to the Truth 20:47, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I am an IE user.
MediaWiki:Pagetitle and MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage. MediaWiki:Tagline some related discussion. — Dispenser 17:36, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I have found Google Chrome handles it "correctly", i.e., as I prefer it to be handled. But Chrome has other issues, or I have issues with it. IE is the browser using the entire title phrase for the shortcut name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TechTony (talkcontribs) 02:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I just tried dragging a link on Wikipedia in Chrome to my desktop and it included the tagline as it should. Browsers just grab the page's title. They shouldn't modify the text, they should return exactly what you see, since it's the most expected result. Gary King (talk · scripts) 05:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Oh, silly me! My script (noted above) is active! The script did it, not Chrome. My bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TechTony (talkcontribs) 11:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I just learned I have to sign posts on talk pages. OK. But can't there be a preference to auto-sign on talk pages? Or, does someone have a script to do that?TechTony (talk) 11:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Not all edits to talk pages need a signature; for example, I might make a post, sign and save it, and then notice that it was incorrectly formatted, so I amend it and there is no need for a fresh signature.
Regarding the text of the shortcut created on the desktop: you can find the page title of any page by viewing the page source. Most browsers offer this feature:
• in Chrome it's Ctrl+U or Alt+E,L,O (or click on the "wrench" icon upper right, then select "Tools..." then "View source")
• in Firefox it's Ctrl+U or Alt+V,O (or click on "View" then "Page Source")
• in IE7 it's Alt+V,C (or click on "View" then "Page Source")
• in Opera it's Ctrl+U (or click on "Menu" then "Page" then "Developer Tools" then "Source")
(all these being under Windows XP). When I try these, I see the page source as HTML; near the top is the <head>...</head> section, and within that there will be a line enclosed in <title>...</title> tags. For this particular page it shows:
<title>Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>
That is where the shortcut text comes from. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

## Javascript to automatically set "minor edit" checkbox

I proposed a MediaWiki enhancement that would allow users to separately set preferences to "mark all edits minor by default" for main pages versus discussion pages. The reason is virtually all talk page edits are non-minor. I was told that they wanted to minimize the number of user preferences, which is understandable, and it could be done with some Javascript. Could somebody help me with that? Thanks in advance. –CWenger (talk) 03:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother. There's consensus to remove the "mark minor by default" entirely, and if I understand correctly there's a bugzilla ticket to do this and it's just waiting on the developers. --Trovatore (talk) 03:42, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Right, but I'm asking if I can do this without user preferences via JavaScript, with better granularity on what is automatically marked minor and what isn't. –CWenger (talk) 03:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
There has been a lot of disruption caused by edits automatically marked as minor. An editor needs to make a decision on a case-by-case basis whether to apply that flag, and no automated process is an acceptable substitute. Johnuniq (talk) 04:28, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't see much harm given that users have had the option to mark all edits as minor by default for a while now. I have this option enabled and am actually trying to disable it in some cases. –CWenger (talk) 04:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Done: User:Gary King/custom minor edits.js. To install, copy the following to your custom JavaScript file:
minorEditNamespaces = ['Main', 2];
importScript('User:Gary King/custom minor edits.js'); // [[User:Gary King/custom minor edits.js]]

Get namespaces from WP:Namespace. You can either use the namespace name or ID number. The example provided in the code above is for the "Main" namespace (where Articles reside) and the "2" is for the "User" namespace. Gary King (talk · scripts) 05:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! –CWenger (talk) 13:55, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Just a note that there are a lot of edits being made to talk pages that are minor such as fixing problems with the banners and such. Yobot for example does a lot of edits that most users probably won't care about from a participating in discussions standpoint. --Kumioko (talk) 15:38, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Special:Recentchangeslinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject Board and table games has clearly failed to pick up at least one significant edit with a tagged talk page Ingenious. Is this a bug or does it just not track all changes. Tetron76 (talk) 15:52, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

That feature only picks up changes to pages linked *from* the target page. See Help:Related changes. Graham87 01:45, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## Can't dismiss WMF message

Whenever we get one of those special messages from the Wikimedia Foundation at the top of the screen, I tend to see several posts here within a few minutes complaining about not being able to dismiss it. I was really surprised that didn't happen this time. Maybe my browser (Konqueror 4.5.1) is just weird, but clicking the X in the box next to "Help with translations!" does nothing for me. Any ideas? Ntsimp (talk) 15:54, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Try Firefox.
21:22, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
No. Any other ideas? Ntsimp (talk) 23:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Add the following code to Special:MyPage/skin.css:
#nextChapter { display: none; }

Then the banner will disappear after you bypass your cache. Gary King (talk · scripts) 01:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## Error trying to lift a block

User:Bishonen and I have both been trying to unblock User:Baby Tex after an idiot admin mistakenly blocked him, but we're both getting "Error: Block ID not found. It may have been unblocked already." and the account is still blocked. Anybody have any idea what's up? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Unblocked, not sure what the problem was though. I just went and got the block ID from the API and then used http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BlockList&action=unblock&id=2463705 (2463705 was the block ID). I also got the error when trying to unblock normally. - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:40, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I got the same message on a different block - I blocked a user who had blown his stack at someone coupla hours to try to stop him digging a deeper hole for himself. When I came to unblock him (he having gone off to bed rather than argue about it), I got the exact same message. What I did was reset the block duration to time expired, which worked. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:50, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Hey Elen, how long ago was that? - Kingpin13 (talk) 22:52, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Block was around midnight, and I was trying to release it around 9.30 Friday morning GMT. In the end, I reset the end time to 10.00 just as the town hall clock struck the hour.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:58, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Haha. Somebody doesn't like humor socks. Make Bishzilla angry that way. Seriously, this may be related to the "slow" problem above...database not catching up, maybe.
22:55, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
It does sound like a database error. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:00, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps, but then it's odd that the API was happy. - Kingpin13 (talk) 23:05, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I'd say it's an error with the spaces in the usernames, see here (doesn't work) whereas this worked fine (also both the user HJ blocked and the user Elen blocked had spaces in their usernames). I may file a bugzilla in a second, just want to test some other stuff first. - Kingpin13 (talk) 23:09, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
[User:Darwinbish files her sharp little teeth and starts looking around for the frightened database, which cowers in a corner. ] No need for slow old Bishzilla! I'll take care of the biting! [Darwinbish high-fives with Tex's baby. ] darwinbish BITE 23:14, 12 March 2011 (UTC).
Your next user's name best be Bishzilla123';DROP TABLE 'users' ;P. - Kingpin13 (talk) 23:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Bug submitted, see [7]. As mentioned there, replacing underscores with whitespace fixes the problem. - Kingpin13 (talk) 23:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Just run same test with my non-tools account . With underscores, error message. Underscores replaced by whitespace, no problem Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:43, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Huh. [me staunchly pretends to understand what's going on. ] Well, I think I've got it figgered that you fixed it, Kingpin. Thanks. Bishonen | talk 23:46, 12 March 2011 (UTC).
• That is similar to Commons image file names which did not match, last year, if named with underscores. Anyway, as for the WP databases being slow, everyone agrees the data has been there (upon re-edit), but the displayed page sometimes shows the prior cache revision for large pages over 60kb(?). There is no case, AFAICT, where the database did not store the new data, including new settings for user accounts. So, when data refuses to register, on a re-check, we should not consider that problem to be a slow database update. -Wikid77 05:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## Editing

The new editing template is a disaster. Clicking on Advanced, Special characters and Help does nothing (Windows XP). Please don't tell me that I need to change my IE8 settings. I want them as they are. As a chemist I need to have superscript and subscript readily available for chemical formua such as O2+, not two clicks away. Also the Courier font is unpleasant to use. BTW the special characters did not work with the previous edit template, but one could get round that. Petergans (talk) 11:06, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Another issue: the link to citation template gives an old version. Petergans (talk) 11:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

The preferences were temporarily incorrect after the upgrade, the preferences are being restored as we speak to their pre-upgrade settings. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:47, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
12:47 < RoanKattouw> thedj: Known issue, running a script to (partially) fix it like right now. The ones still having the issue will, unfortunately, have to switch it off againTheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:48, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Clarification: the script fixed most of the mess, but due to a minor FUBAR we were unable to fix the fact that certain users that had previously disabled the edit toolbar will now have it enabled again. These users will have to go to Preferences -> Editing -> Beta features and uncheck "Enable enhanced edit toolbar". There are about 4,200 affected users on English Wikipedia, if memory serves.
I realize this is an annoyance to these people, and I apologize for messing up. However, I'm sure you would've been more annoyed if you'd gotten the new toolbar and the preferences interface would refuse to turn it off, which is what would've happened if we hadn't done anything at all :) --Catrope (talk) 15:12, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Actually, that is exactly what is happening to me. Regardless of the state of the checkbox, I have the enhanced edit toolbar active. There is no way for me to get the old one back. -- Whpq (talk) 15:15, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Could you try again now? --Catrope (talk) 15:25, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I followed the instructions given above and I am back in working order again. Thanks! ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 15:29, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Reply - Still doesn't work for me. I am using Firefox version 3.6.13 on Windows XP. I shut down the browser and started it again. The checkbox was clear, but I had the enhanced edit tool bar. I checked the box and saved my preferences; opened a page to edit and confirmed I had the enhanced edit tool bar. I then unchecked the box and saved my preference. I opened a page to edit, and the enhanced edit tool bar is still there. -- Whpq (talk) 16:16, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Try WP:BYPASS? –xenotalk 16:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Reply - Still broken for me. I cleared my entire cache and it made no difference. For extra fun, I switched to Chrome. Same problem. I then switched to IE8, and again, the same problem. Note that with IE8, I've never even visited Wikipedia so there's no way anything is cached. No matter which browser I am using, I only see the enhanced edit toolbar regardless of my preference setting. -- Whpq (talk) 16:32, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

UPDATE - I found a way to get the toolbar back! In your preferences, under the editing tab, there are two checkboxes that are related to beta features. The first is supposed to toggle between the old edit toolbar and the advanced edit toolbar. The second relates to some features. Previously, the state of the second checkbox was irrelevant. Now, in order to get the old toolbar back, you need to uncheck both boxes. -- Whpq (talk) 21:15, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this is what the real issue was: the behavior of the second box change. The whole database thing turned out to be a red herring. I've deployed a prospective fix that should restore the old behavior, please tell me if it works. --Catrope (talk) 22:48, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
I am able to toggle between the classic toolbar and the advanced toolbar regardless of the state of the state of the "Enable Dialogs" checkbox. This is the behaviour that is expected and matches the behaviour prior to the upgrade. So inthat way, it works. This may perhaps be unrelated. The classic toolbar itself seems to have changed. The "cite button" which is the one most used by me, is on the far left of the toolbar instead of on the far right, next to the "ref" button. And when the "cite button" is clicked, the toolbar formatting gets whacky. The "cite" button moves to the top on its own. The series of template buttons are below that with their bottom edge overlapped with the rest of the classic toolbar (minus the "cite" button. -- Whpq (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

← I have been having a similar problem for the last couple of days - I am using the old toolbar, both boxes are unchecked on my preferences and I also can toggle back and forth successfully, except I don't want the new one. The problem is that the cite button I always use - the one that auto-fills in article title, other info, and was on the far right- has disappeared. The "cite ref" button is useless - just adds <ref> and </ref> which I don't need. Is there something else I am supposed to do to reinstate the edit toolbar the way it was? PLease advise. Tvoz/talk 00:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:RefToolbar 2.0#Troubleshooting. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:26, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

### Edit box font forced to Courier

Since the upgrade, the edit box is using Courier rather than my preferred monospace font. It actually comes up for a split second in my font and then changes. Presumably someone's hard-coded Courier somewhere in a CSS file, which isn't really acceptable.

I see a couple of other people mentioning this above, but nobody's claimed it's been fixed. – Smyth\talk 22:15, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

There's no hardcoded font in the MediaWiki CSS or any skin CSS for the edit box. Double-check your browser settings. Edokter (talk) — 23:27, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
The line spacing is definitely greater than normal for me. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 23:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
That they did change, with the new edit toolbar. That can be corrected with textarea#wpTextbox1 {line-height: normal !important;}. Edokter (talk) — 00:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, you can specify #wpTextbox1 {font-family:whatever !important;} where whatever is the name of your preferred font, and need not be fixed-width necessarily. 68.69.54.2 (talk) 17:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Well that's weird. My browser settings have indeed changed without my intervention. Maybe caused by a Chrome upgrade that happened at roughly the same time? – Smyth\talk 10:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The font in edit mode changed for me too yesterday. Does anyone know how we can fix it? SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 02:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

If you're using Chrome, double-check your browser settings. Really. I don't know how it changed, but it did. – Smyth\talk 10:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm using Firefox, and my settings haven't changed. I just checked it on Chrome and it's the same problem. I'm also getting a weird thing where sometimes (not always), when I open the edit box, it only fills half the screen. So something odd has happened to width in general.
The new font (or new width, whatever it is) is awkward to edit with, partly because some of the symbols aren't translating well. For example, an em dash looks like an en dash, and an endash looks like a hyphen. So I would love to get it back to what it was. This change occurred for me at almost exactly 18:00 hours (UTC) on February 20, in case anyone knows of something that happened then. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:38, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Try Special:Preferences -> Editing -> Disable all "Beta features" –xenotalk 17:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Xeno, I tried that yesterday. The only thing it did was change my toolbar. I already had the new toolbar (before this recent change) that others are complaining about, so when I removed Beta features, it took me back to the old one. But it didn't change the font issue. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
What is Special:Preferences → Editing → Edit area font style set to? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:55, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Using Firefox 3.6.14 on Mac OS X 10.5.8, the Wikipedia edit box is using the Firefox font preference for Monospace text, regardless of the Firefox setting "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of my selections above". Using Safari 5.0.3, the edit box is using Helvetica font, not my default Fixed-width font. I think the latter behaviour is correct – what is happening with Firefox? —Coroboy (talk) 06:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
This got fixed for me with help from Kaldari (see here), but ever since then I've been getting the Classic interface rather than Monobook sporadically, and now I can't get Monobook at all. I'll start a new thread about it. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 00:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

### Monobook interface keeps disappearing; now can't edit whole articles

File:Edit window.JPG
In edit mode occasionally for the last couple of weeks
File:Notice when I try to edit in Monobook.JPG
Since March 8, this appears when I try to edit logged in as SlimVirgin.

For the last while, my Monobook interface has kept disappearing and being replaced by Classic, combined with an odd split-window in edit mode (see right). It's been happening briefly every few hours, but today I can't get Monobook at all, and have had to switch to Vector so I can edit—though all my scripts have gone, so there's a lot I can't do. Is anyone else experiencing this? SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 00:24, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

• Standard questions: Which browser(s) are you using? How soon after deleting browser temp files does the problem reappear? When not logged in, are the problems similar? -Wikid77 13:36, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm using Firefox 3.6.15 for Windows, and it's getting crazier. Today, I can get Monobook, but in both Monobook and Vector I can't edit whole articles. I can do section editing, but if I click on edit at the top of any page, I get a notice (see lower right), which says I'm trying to download something. I'll try it logged out and report back. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 00:04, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
It's the same when I try to edit as SlimVirgin using Chrome. I click on edit, a notice appears saying index.php, and then another one saying "Windows cannot open this file." SlimVirgin test account (talk) 00:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
It's fine when I'm logged out. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 00:09, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
And I can also edit with this new account that I created. But I can't edit whole articles with SlimVirgin, and I haven't changed any of my preferences recently, at least not since the last problem. See here for how that got resolved. I also can't create a new article, or check the history of a deleted article, with the SlimVirgin account. SlimVirgin test account (talk) 00:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, more weirdness with this new account too (default preferences except for Monobook). Monobook is now disappearing again, and Classic appearing instead. SlimVirgin test account (talk) 01:19, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Just to clarify here, in case anyone can help:
• With SlimVirgin, I can't edit whole articles; can't create new articles; and can't read the content or history of deleted articles.
• When I try to do those things, I get a message saying I have chosen to open index.php, then one saying Windows doesn't know how to open it.
• I first noticed it around 00:00 on 8 March (UTC). Things were fine during my previous edit 21 hours earlier at 02:45 that day.
• There was no change to my preferences between those periods.
• It is happening with Monobook, Vector, and several other skins.
• It is happening with Firefox and Chrome.
• It is happening on two computers with different operating systems.
• It's not happening logged out; it's not happening with a new account I created with default preferences; and it's not happening with SlimVirgin with default preferences.
• Blanking SlimVirgin's monobook.js and monobook.css pages made no difference.
Therefore, it seems there has been a change somewhere that has created an incompatibility with my preferences. I'm currently clunking through them to see which one is the culprit. In the meantime, does anyone know whether there was a change between 02:45 and around midnight UTC on March 7 (00:00 March 8) that might have caused this? SlimVirgin test account (talk) 06:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
• I'm clearly talking to myself here. :) But I'll continue with my running commentary in case someone can figure out what's happening. So, I restored all my preferences, and was suddenly able to edit whole articles again today; I can't tell whether a particular preference was responsible, or whether it was something else. The situation with not being able to use Monobook continues (it keeps disappearing and the Classic skin appears instead). That happens with SlimVirgin and with the new account I sent up, and it happens on two computers with different operating systems. The latest thing today is that when I post a response, it doesn't show up in the page that loads after I press save. I can see it in edit mode, but not read mode. This is with SlimVirgin. Haven't tried it logged out or with default preferences yet. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 01:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps a problem with your ISP? It looks like pages are sometimes served incorrectly to you, regardless of what browser it is; specifically, it appears as though the correct media type is not being sent to you. You can use a Firefox extension such as Live HTTP Headers to see what media type is being sent, which might help figure out the problem. But I suspect that no media type is sent at all; the HTTP headers are getting lost during transmission. .php files should be read like HTML files in your browser, not asked to be downloaded. Gary King (talk · scripts) 02:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Many thanks for the reply, Gary. The php problem has now disappeared. What remains today is Monobook being unstable (it regularly disappears and is replaced by Classic), and my posts not showing up in read mode immediately (see below). I have to refresh quite a few times before I see them. That's happening with SlimVirgin and other accounts I've tried out with default or nearly-default preferences. I'll try to go elsewhere to log in from a different ISP, though I'm only having problems on WP, so if my ISP were the issue I'd expect to see problems elsewhere too. I'll also install the Firefox extension you suggested. Thank you again. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 06:37, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
As for "downloading index.php" problem: next time make sure you did not check the option "Use external editor by default (for experts only...)" in editing preferences. — AlexSm 16:34, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Alex. SlimVirgin TALK|CONTRIBS 17:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## categorically random categories

I'm fascinated but a bit perplexed by this category being broken down alphabetically into subsections R, H, L, D, C, J, B, K, I, M, E, G, F, N, S, G again (different items), H again (different items), .... --joe deckertalk to me 20:02, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

The entries in the categories clump. The letter heading corresponds to the first letter of the article regardless of setup in the article of a DEFAULTSORT. The actual order of all the of the articles in the category though still appears to follow the ordering set up in the DEFAULTSORT. -- Whpq (talk) 20:27, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Someone else has noticed problems with indexed categories! In the category cited above the first page says "The following 200 pages are in this category out of 535 total." When one clicks on "next 200" the first page reappears. The first page ends with "Sanford", so click on "T" in the index. That takes you to a page that begins with "Terleyeva" and says, "The following 154 pages are in this category out of 535 total." When one clicks on "previous 200" the first page reappears. There are 181 missing pages.
Look at its parent, Category:All unreferenced BLPs. Try to navigate around the pages. Now look at Category:WikiProject Biography articles, if you can get there. There are more than 150 pages whose |listas= is a lower-case letter. How do I get to them to fix them? JimCubb (talk) 21:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm seeing that too, although the craziness I first reported is gone, "next" is broken still, yes. While I'm guessing it will be fixed soon, in my own gnoming I'm getting to entries like that by workign on the ones I can get to, which moves the ones I can't get to closer to being ones I can get to. There are still more than enough places for me to usefully dig. --joe deckertalk to me 22:01, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Related to this: newly created article Fretherne with Saul has a {{DEFAULTSORT:Fretherne With Saul}}, and is in three categories: but in each cat it sorts at the start of the Fs (ie before Frampton-on-Severn; Five Valleys; Fairview, Cheltenham respectively). I've redone the DEFAULTSORT; purged the page; made edits (null and real) - and whatever I do, it stays stuck at the top of the Fs. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

The "next" url on categories says &pagefrom= where it should only say &from=. Templates like {{Category TOC}} don't rely on "next" links and correctly say &from= in the template source. But this doesn't explain the sorting problems. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Where can one report the problem to ensure that someone is working on it? There are a lot of editors working specifically on sort values as part of the Cleanup project. If the sort scheme is broken and no one is working to fix it, they are just spinning their heels. We also look like complete idiots for users of the encyclopedia who are looking for information about a subject that is covered by pages within a category when the pages are sorted incorrectly.

JimCubb (talk) 23:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

A related issue: sorting by special characters (e.g., "μ" for stub categories, "β" for books categories and "τ" for template categories) is affected as well. Categories with sort keys of "μ", "β" and "τ" continue to appear near the end of contents lists, but they are shown as being under "M", "B" and "T", respectively. -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

The sysadmins are deploying new category sorting ("collation") code. It was kept back from the 1.17 deployment because unlike the rest of the changes it is very difficult to revert; so they waited to make sure the rest of the 1.17 code was stable in production first. The net effect on enwiki should be nill: the new collation should be identical to the old one; but for other languages it will dramatically improve the quality of sorting, putting characters in proper order for that language. So at the moment categories are sorting pretty much randomly; there is a maintenance script running for each wiki which will gradually shake it out into the correct new order, but naturally for enwiki that is a huge job which will take hours if not days to complete. I guess it's a case of "please continue to chew your fingenails patiently"... :D Happymelon 10:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Estimated time to completion is ~30 hours Happymelon 17:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks for the info! --joe deckertalk to me 18:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The projected time to complete passed us a few hours ago and there appears to be no change. Is there a new estimate? JimCubb (talk) 05:24, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
It finished at about 12:00 UTC today; so any still-broken categories are now actually broken. Happymelon 16:02, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Loading up a category in AWB only produces articles that have been created in the past few days. Category:Unassessed biography articles and Category:Biography articles without listas parameter are examples. Bgwhite (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
That is, I think, a separate issue related to the borked job queue, see Help talk:Job queue#Where's it gone? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
FWIW was working earlier in the week. Borked job queue started in February. Bgwhite (talk) 17:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Related to Black Falcon's post: Category:Geography of Gloucestershire has sub-categories under C, E, ... T, V, Μ in that order. The apparent error of M appearing last is explained by examining the sort-key of the sub-cat under that heading: it's µGloucestershire geography stubs (in common with the majority of stub categories do when placed in non-stub cats using {{stub category}}), and the letter µ when capitalised is Μ, which is a Greek letter: although it looks exactly like the Latin letter M, it's different. Is it possible to override this capitalisation, otherwide it'll cause plenty of confusion? --Redrose64 (talk) 17:37, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Okay, who broke the stub cat (μ) and template cat (τ) sorting keys??!! It looks like it's taking more than 30 hours. Just wondering, --Funandtrvl (talk) 06:58, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## Problem in the English Wikipedia search field

Hello,

I noticed a problem in the English Wikipedia top-right search field. With K-Meleon and Firefox 3.

I go the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin Above the funny bird, the field contains the grey text "Search". The article has the word "oceans", not a link. I want to read about oceans, so I select the word "oceans" and drag it to the search box. The box contains now the grey text "Seoceansarch"! I want to delete "Se" and "arch". So I click in the box. All the text gets erased!

If you really want to keep the grey "Search" clue, then I suggest you to make it a background image.

Best regards,

Nnemo (talk) 03:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed something similar even when I'm just typing directly into the search box--it's happened several times over the past few weeks and on several articles. The typefont stays grey and doesn't recognize that I've entered anything. I thought maybe it happens only when the page hasn't finished loading, but is it happening in other circumstances? Aristophanes68 (talk) 04:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I can drag text to the search box just fine to replace "Search" in Firefox. If the page is still loading then yes, it's very likely that problems such as that will be encountered. Gary King (talk · scripts) 05:01, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
User:BehnamFarid just reported the same problem to me. I don't have the issue, which is possibly because I'm on monobook. Stifle (talk) 09:15, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I've never thought to drag text into the search field, but I just did (Safari 5, Mac OSX 10.6) and it replaced "search" with the dragged text. Also, when I select the box again, the text does not disappear; that is decidedly a browser-only issue.
Not to sound like a jerk, but the easiest way around this problem is to just select the box and type, rather than dragging text to the box. (or you could select the type, copy it, and then select the Search box and paste the word) Your suggestion of making it a background image wouldn't work, as then the text "Search" would be visible under any text you type, which would render it somewhat illegible. EVula // talk // // 17:18, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
There is a problem in the stuff served.
Firstly, there is parasite text in a search box which is supposed to welcome my text.
Secondly, when the content of the box gets erased at my click, this is not something my browser does from its own initiative; it does so because it is instructed to do so. Who is the instructor? Some Javascript, I suppose.
When I suggest to replace the grey text by a background, of course the background is not meant to be more present than the grey text: it is not supposed to stay. Nnemo (talk) 01:11, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
The search box does welcome your text, just not in the way that you're attempting, which is probably an error in your browser; dragging and dropping text works just fine for me. I don't know what you mean by "parasite text"; it's a common feature on websites for there to be placeholder text in the search box that disappears when the user clicks in it. The "instructor" isn't JavaScript, it's just regular HTML. EVula // talk // // 21:06, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
What regular HTML can accomplish this? Nnemo (talk) 01:19, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

## Offer 460px and 620px as thumbnail size preferences

Until now, the maximum possible for the thumbnail is 300 pixels, thank you for extending up to 620 pixels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ViveCulture (talkcontribs) 06:45, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

620px is greater than half of the typically available screen-width (see [8]) and quite less when accounting for the side-bar and the left/right margins of the content area (approx. −182px in monobook). I doubt this would be a popular setting for anyone. ―cobaltcigs 03:42, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but thank you for extending up to 620 pixels. It's quick to do. ViveCulture (talk) 14:32, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## special:Newimages shrinking size

{{special:Newimages/3}}

Creates:

How can I shrink the size of each image in User:Adamtheclown/MonoBook.css posted on another page, say User:Adamtheclown/testing?

I am able to increase the width of all of the entire gallery:

Change text color:

body.page-User_Adamtheclown div.gallerybox { color: #006400; }

But how do I change the size of each individual image from 150px?

hmmm... for some reason this does not by posting this on User:Adamtheclown/MonoBook.css. Adamtheclown (talk) 13:13, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid you can't. Special:NewFiles uses the <gallery> tag internally. While the tag allows parameters to control the image size, I see no way to use it with Special:NewFiles. Edokter (talk) — 13:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you Edokter. Hmm...so I guess when i changed the width of the entire gallery above, that was different than changing the image size of each image? Adamtheclown (talk) 13:35, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes. At most, that would change the number of images that will fit on one row of the gallery. Edokter (talk) — 13:42, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you again. wikia posts the three most recent images on each page of the wikia, but they must use much more than just special:Newimages. Adamtheclown (talk) 13:48, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
They seem to use a special module for that. Edokter (talk) — 16:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## Cannot rollback self-reverted edit

== Cannot rollback, Or: Can we get a STABLE MediaWiki please? ==

This is really getting annoying. Aren't there any tests carried out before a new MediaWiki is disclosed upon us? For some reason I cannot rollback some test edit! I get an "Action complete" response but then when I go to the history page nothing has happened!!! Nageh (talk) 18:24, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Please provide a link to the edit you are unable to rollback. - Kingpin13 (talk) 18:29, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
[9]. It's not that I can't unroll this test edit that bothers me it's that it seems every time something else is not working. Nageh (talk) 18:33, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
The rollback isn't showing up because there was no change made in those edits (see). So you're making a null edit (this is different from a dummy edit, in that no changes are made). Null edits are not meant to show in history (hence the rollback doesn't show up), but the (null) edit was successful (hence it says it was successful). Nothing is wrong here. - Kingpin13 (talk) 18:36, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I am pretty confident that such null edit rollbacks were always working before. But please clear this up for me: the basic rationale for reverting test edits seems to be that bad faith editors can't secretly collect editing points. So did that null edit revert get counted or not? Nageh (talk) 18:42, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Null rollbacks never showed up in history - they're just rare because most rollbacks are not of vandals who already reverted themselves (doing such a rollback is kind of silly). Dcoetzee 18:44, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Please note that if you WP:ROLLBACK an edit (or sequence of edits) the original editor's edit count doesn't decrease by 1 (or more than 1); instead, your own edit count increases by 1. Put simply: if it's in the page history, each row is scored to the person named first on that row. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:46, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, that's clear. I thought that for certain minimum editing levels for new accounts only non-reverted edits will be counted. That's why I assumed that re-reverting test edits that a newbie has reverted itself was common practice. My bad then. Nothing I really bother about, I was really just annoyed because I thought I encountered yet another mediawiki bug (after all the previous hazzles). Thanks for all your responses! Nageh (talk) 21:10, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## Show recent user edits with size

Is there an easy way to browse the list of a user's recent edits with the size of the diff? I can see the size in my watchlist, and with "related changes", but they don't show up on the standard "user contributions" page. I could just copy all the recent edits to a page, then do "related changes", but I am sure there is a more efficient way. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:58, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Since you're an admin, one unusual way is to use Special:Abusefilter/test (only available to "Edit Filter managers" but you can assign it to youself at Special:Userrights) with the username in "changes by user" and true as filter code. Of course, JavaScript + API (list=recentchanges) would be a better option, I guess I could write a userscript if nobody did it yet. — AlexSm 02:59, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks that works! I was also able to get it to work using the method I described above (copying list of edits to a temp page, then using 'related changes'). This will help audit my bot's contributions. Thanks again. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 03:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

## Special:NewPages only displaying the latest 50 new pages

Has anyone else noticed this since 4 days ago? The backlog is only showing new pages of today's date. --Kudpung (talk) 13:42, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Filed as bugzilla:27339. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
That's the tracking bug. You mean bugzilla:27607. Reach Out to the Truth 18:05, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I investigated the issue, I can't find anything wrong. The newer 50, older 50 links work as expected. Perhaps you are confused by the "hidepatrolled" setting, which all new pages older than a day apparently are atm. I guess patrolling is going better than you are used to ? :D —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 00:04, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Ha! I noticed hidepatrolled was enabled, so I clicked the link to show all changes. I didn't realize that clicking that also removed "dir=prev" from the query, so I saw the front of the backlog and thought it was the back! Maybe we should slow down our new page controlling; it's causing us all to get confused. Reach Out to the Truth 03:37, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Guys, are you sure there's nothing wrong? There was an approximately 28- or 29-day backlog of unpatrolled articles (i.e. thousands of articles) that disappeared over the course of a day or two, which just happened to coincide with the release of 1.17. In the past year, I've never seen the backlog shorter than about 20 days. Are we positive this was just an extremely unlikely coincidence? Special:Newpages appears to be working correctly now, however it also appears that the entire backlog was somehow lost during the release. —SW— confess 00:20, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

### Special:NewPages

There's no yellow highlight. --Highspeedrailguy (talk) 16:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

There are for me. Perhaps all pages had been patrolled when you last looked at the page? Gary King (talk · scripts) 19:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
There does appear to be a problem with this. These pages usually have abacklog of up to 30 days - several thousand pages. It's probably unlikely that they have been cleaned up overnight. Is anyone looking into this? The problem seems to be concurrent with the new software upgrade. --Kudpung (talk) 15:07, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
See threads above and below. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

### Newpages 1-26 February 2011 marked as patrolled

For the last few days Special:NewPages has been dramatically unclogged. It could be that we've suddenly acquired a new batch of patrollers, but it looks more likely to me that recent software changes have shifted the end of the queue from 30 days to something more like ten hours. ϢereSpielChequers 16:33, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

They are remaining on the list for a month as previous (see here), but it seems that the entire list was accidentally marked as "patrolled" at some point. See this earlier thread; also this thread is, I believe, related. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:21, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
• I have renamed this topic "Newpages 1-26 February 2011 marked as patrolled" before it gets archived. I scanned the prior 1,500 articles in Special:NewPages, and it looks like only February 27-28 will show unpatrolled articles: all articles dated during February 1-26, 2011 still appear marked as already patrolled. However, perhaps all entries dated "February 27" will seem patrolled, on February 28. -Wikid77 13:00, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
If the new page patrollers are patrolling pages from the back of the unpatrolled backlog as requested, then the date and time of the oldest unpatrolled page will gradually get later. It doesn't follow that pages are still being automatically marked as patrolled when they shouldn't have been. The only way to be sure is to find a page in Special:NewPages which is not yellow-highlighted, and which also does not appear in Special:Log/patrol. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Let's Play Together is currently the end of the queue at 13 hours ago, the consistency of the queue at half a day leads me to doubt that we simply have an enthusiastic new patroller - if that was the case the queue length would be linked to their sleep pattern. The best way to resolve this would be for someone who was involved in the recent updates to the site to please check to see if it is possible that something changed the code to reduce the queue? ϢereSpielChequers 16:45, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I've done some sampling of the patrolled pages in Special:NewPages on multiple days, ignoring pages created by autopatrollers. Of the pages I checked, they were all patrolled by someone, so it doesn't seem to be a software issue. I found a lot of patrolling from two users in particular: Kamkek (talk · contribs) and The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk · contribs). Initially I just saw Kamkek, but Kamkek has expressed concern with quickly the backlog was being cleared, so I figured there must be at least one other highly active new page patroller. The Blade of the Northern Lights seems to be that other patroller. Reach Out to the Truth 17:57, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

For the record, here are the current patrolling data:
mysql> select (select user_name from user where user_id = log_user) as user_name, count(*) as count from recentchanges join logging on rc_namespace = log_namespace and rc_title = log_title and rc_timestamp < log_timestamp where rc_new = 1 and log_type = 'patrol' and log_action = 'patrol' and log_timestamp > '20110128' and rc_namespace = 0 group by log_user having count > 200 order by count desc;

+----------------------------------+-------+
| user_name                        | count |
+----------------------------------+-------+
| Kamkek                           |  5219 |
| The Blade of the Northern Lights |  1666 |
| Ebe123                           |   643 |
| Travelbird                       |   595 |
| Ironholds                        |   445 |
| DASHBot                          |   422 |
| Visik                            |   375 |
| Ser Amantio di Nicolao           |   294 |
| Gilo1969                         |   211 |
+----------------------------------+-------+
9 rows in set (2.54 sec)

Svick (talk) 18:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
• No human being can properly patrol over a thousand articles a day, unless they should be working with a batch of non-autopatrolled automatic page creations--looking at their patrol logs, such was not the case. This is a matter that needs to be discussed with those editors, and I will discuss it with them; if they do not understand, this is a matter to be raised elsewhere. But can someone tell me whether the edits above are sufficient to account for all the problem, or whether there was or is a technical problem also? DGG ( talk ) 01:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
It's not more than 1000 per day - it's more than 1000 per month. See the query selection, which includes the test log_timestamp > '20110128' ie "show only actions logged after 28 January 2011". --Redrose64 (talk) 12:37, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Here's the patrol log:
Extended content
    * 19:23, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Richard Clarida patrolled ‎
* 19:23, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Ipsex Bruisers patrolled ‎
* 19:22, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Adam Buenz patrolled ‎
* 19:22, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User WP Montserrat patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:22, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:71.167.193.49 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:21, 28 February 2011 Rich Farmbrough (talk | contribs) marked Talk:ArmiÅski (crater) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:21, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:75.159.248.212 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:21, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:206.219.164.59 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 Ute in DC (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Hemley patrolled ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 J3Mrs (talk | contribs) marked Wellington Colliery patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 COIBot (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/miskolczi.webs.com patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 Drmies (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ian Erix patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 PFHLai (talk | contribs) marked Template:POTD protected/2011-03-01 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 Rich Farmbrough (talk | contribs) marked Talk:AndÄl (crater) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:20, 28 February 2011 Andre Kritzinger (talk | contribs) marked South African Class 8 4-8-0 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Epbr123 (talk | contribs) marked User talk:90.202.117.131 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User:Forksnipe315/Predator zero patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Epbr123 (talk | contribs) marked User talk:204.9.150.244 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Dezinated patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Colm James patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Legodoctorwhoguy patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:70.253.38.110 patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Regional insourcing patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:GLAM/BL/Events patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Dzp111 patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:98.116.22.21 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:69.18.26.251 patrolled ‎
* 19:19, 28 February 2011 Versageek (talk | contribs) marked User talk:CountryLdy patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User:Johorean Boy patrolled ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked User:Wadulko patrolled ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User:Dhananjay00919220890710 patrolled ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 COIBot (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/ineuro.ru patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 Erik (talk | contribs) marked User:Erik/Lawrence of Arabia/Production patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Holt/Editnotice patrolled ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 Bermicourt (talk | contribs) marked Karsdorf fault patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:18, 28 February 2011 Mbakkel2 (talk | contribs) marked List of Chairmen of the Supreme Soviet of the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 MilborneOne (talk | contribs) marked Alia Royal Jordanian Airlines patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Matthew Newbury patrolled ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 Alan Liefting (talk | contribs) marked Category talk:Crops patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked User talk:173.206.215.86 patrolled ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 Howcheng (talk | contribs) marked Template:POTD/2011-03-01 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:188.221.153.178 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 MilborneOne (talk | contribs) marked AVIANCA patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 DragonflySixtyseven (talk | contribs) marked User:Mrcolt1288 patrolled ‎
* 19:17, 28 February 2011 M2545 (talk | contribs) marked Medfield Social Library patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:16, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:99.192.68.98 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:16, 28 February 2011 RadioFan (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:FUTON patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:16, 28 February 2011 MilborneOne (talk | contribs) marked Wardair Canada patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:16, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Government efficiency patrolled ‎
* 19:15, 28 February 2011 Rich Farmbrough (talk | contribs) marked Talk:1155 AÃ«nna patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:15, 28 February 2011 MilborneOne (talk | contribs) marked Trans Australian Airlines patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:15, 28 February 2011 MacRusgail (talk | contribs) marked Category:Italian books by author patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:15, 28 February 2011 WelcomerBot (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Shannon lloyd71 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:15, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User WP Montenegro/doc patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:14, 28 February 2011 SarekOfVulcan (talk | contribs) marked Template:Editnotices/Page/Bernard Nathanson patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:14, 28 February 2011 Jllm06 (talk | contribs) marked Category:Towns in Sawyer County, Wisconsin patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:14, 28 February 2011 Jllm06 (talk | contribs) marked Category:Towns in Chippewa County, Wisconsin patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:14, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:94.192.94.191 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:14, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Chicago Croatian patrolled ‎
* 19:14, 28 February 2011 SarekOfVulcan (talk | contribs) marked Template:Editnotices/Page/Abortion patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 COIBot (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/telenovelagarden.info patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:StudlyBudlytheseventh patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked MyDealerLot patrolled ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 Ostalocutanje (talk | contribs) marked Zdravo band patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 Chris0693 (talk | contribs) marked Cérons railway station patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User WP Montenegro patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Dutch general election, 2010/ Candidate List/ GreenLeft patrolled ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 Zachlipton (talk | contribs) marked A-1 Auto Transport patrolled ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 Chris0693 (talk | contribs) marked Gare de Cerons patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:13, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Ballygunner Castle patrolled ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Deceptive implications patrolled ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked X - ray patrolled ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:70.83.214.79 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 Chris0693 (talk | contribs) marked Cerons railway station patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 SarekOfVulcan (talk | contribs) marked Template:Editnotices/Page/Live Action (organization) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Dare to Dream show patrolled ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 Epbr123 (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Sixrider patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Bribertise patrolled ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 Greenshed (talk | contribs) marked Saif al-Arab al-Gaddafi patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked OKK Koksovny, a. s. patrolled ‎
* 19:12, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked John Coleman (musician) patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Toronto ALPHA patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Institute of Cosmology and Gravitation, University of Portsmouth patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Chris0693 (talk | contribs) marked Barsac railway station patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Playout247 patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Mieszko32 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Drmies (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Kingofmycastle1 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Benipal patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Natasha D'Schommer patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Active Archive patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:170.158.14.39 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Ballygunner patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Deraclamo patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Caneo patrolled ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Chris0693 (talk | contribs) marked Preignac railway station patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 Gadfium (talk | contribs) marked User talk:121.72.16.249 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:11, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Jlink patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Adam Kadmon (Adam777MJ) Real Person patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Bashereyre (talk | contribs) marked John West (dean) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked R. L. LaFevers patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Knockboy, County Waterford patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 SarekOfVulcan (talk | contribs) marked Template:Editnotices/Page/Lila Rose patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Mari the Apostle patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Rich Farmbrough (talk | contribs) marked Talk:1137 RaÃ¯ssa patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked AFF U-23 Youth Championship patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Chris0693 (talk | contribs) marked Langon railway station patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Maria Eugénia Martins de Nazaré Ribeiro patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 MacRusgail (talk | contribs) marked Category:French books by author patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Marie Løkke patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Gunter Pauli patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Ordo equitum solis patrolled ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:86.146.60.175 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:10, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Peter Madden(solicitor) patrolled ‎
* 19:09, 28 February 2011 MacRusgail (talk | contribs) marked Category:Works by Richard Wright patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:09, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Everton F.C. Reserves and Academy patrolled ‎
* 19:09, 28 February 2011 Deb (talk | contribs) marked Diego Restrepo patrolled ‎
* 19:09, 28 February 2011 Spinningspark (talk | contribs) marked Ucamco patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:09, 28 February 2011 GuillaumeTell (talk | contribs) marked St Luke's Church, Oseney Crescent patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:09, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Tejo Power Station (working conditions) patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Wandlebury-Hatfield Loxodrome patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 MacRusgail (talk | contribs) marked Category:Works by Stephen Spender patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Pallathuruthy patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 CambridgeBayWeather (talk | contribs) marked CAK7 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked HAL HTT-40 patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 SarekOfVulcan (talk | contribs) marked Template:AbortionGSEN patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Favonian (talk | contribs) marked User talk:60.50.163.212 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Vanilija patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked David Price (soccer) patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Nováci patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Epbr123 (talk | contribs) marked User talk:86.168.60.177 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked John Peter "Shane" du Toit patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User WP Mongolia patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 MacRusgail (talk | contribs) marked Category:Works by Ignazio Silone patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked St. John's church, Marchington Woodlands patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked The Johnny Chronicles patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Women Seeking Women patrolled ‎
* 19:08, 28 February 2011 Kamkek (talk | contribs) marked Paul Nicholson (footballer) patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked ALQ patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Yekta Ibrahimoğlu patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 MacRusgail (talk | contribs) marked Category:Works by André Gide patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Frankie Teardrop patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Jrumma patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Ernest Mills patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Glenfiddich House patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Pirate Nilly aka Chilly Nilly patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Leithana patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked LUONG MINH DANG patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Adam Kadmon (character) patrolled ‎
* 19:07, 28 February 2011 Kamkek (talk | contribs) marked Vallabh niketan patrolled ‎
* 19:06, 28 February 2011 Highspeedrailguy (talk | contribs) marked Yeah That App patrolled ‎
* 19:06, 28 February 2011 Spitfire (talk | contribs) marked Janklin Number System patrolled ‎
* 19:06, 28 February 2011 Boleyn (talk | contribs) marked Michael Griffiths patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 19:06, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Liskl patrolled ‎
* 19:06, 28 February 2011 Boleyn (talk | contribs) marked Michael Griffiths (disambiguation) patrolled (automatic) ‎
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* 18:38, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Beachedwhalehobo12345 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:38, 28 February 2011 RFD (talk | contribs) marked Category talk:Members of the Missouri Territorial Legislature patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:38, 28 February 2011 Qwfp (talk | contribs) marked Michael Wogan patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:38, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Make a plan patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked KBO-CPBL Club Championship patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 Cydebot (talk | contribs) marked Category:Computer keyboards patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 Jaknouse (talk | contribs) marked Federal Creek patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Aditya Tripathi patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Lily Vanilli patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Teja Bhai & Family patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Angels (Mika Newton song) patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Focus: Jan Akkerman patrolled ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Raconnolly patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:37, 28 February 2011 Kamkek (talk | contribs) marked Howard O. McMahon patrolled ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 RFD (talk | contribs) marked Category:Members of the Missouri Territorial Legislature patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 Ajsmith141 (talk | contribs) marked Talk:My Love (London Boys song) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Euroleague 2010–11 Quarterfinals patrolled ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Corre (professional wrestling) patrolled ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Nashville Christian Advocate patrolled ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 Ajsmith141 (talk | contribs) marked My Love (London Boys song) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 Ajsmith141 (talk | contribs) marked Talk:Harlem Desire (song) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 Ezhiki (talk | contribs) marked Template:RussiaAdmMunRef/orl/munlist/dmitrovsky patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk | contribs) marked Tony (North American Skins) patrolled ‎
* 18:36, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:199.230.43.138 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Bonadea (talk | contribs) marked The James Creature patrolled ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User in Poland/doc patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Bin.zourain patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Kamkek (talk | contribs) marked Prakata patrolled ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Kuyabribri (talk | contribs) marked Luca balan patrolled ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Loser87 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Bonadea (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Pyjamaqueen2011 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:35, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User in Poland patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:34, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Renjith08 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:33, 28 February 2011 JoJan (talk | contribs) marked User talk:24.253.59.25 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:33, 28 February 2011 Kamkek (talk | contribs) marked Nusrat Afsana Usha patrolled ‎
* 18:33, 28 February 2011 Ohnoitsjamie (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Grantdustin patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:33, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:KevinWDavis patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:33, 28 February 2011 Bermicourt (talk | contribs) marked Category:Drainage basins of the Czech Republic patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:33, 28 February 2011 Acabashi (talk | contribs) marked Dominik Thomas (racing driver) patrolled ‎
* 18:32, 28 February 2011 RFD (talk | contribs) marked Talk:John Rice Jones patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:32, 28 February 2011 Mariah-Yulia (talk | contribs) marked Talk:Angels (Mika Newton song) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:32, 28 February 2011 Xufanc (talk | contribs) marked Alcolea (disambiguation) patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:32, 28 February 2011 Epbr123 (talk | contribs) marked User talk:41.56.13.102 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:32, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Hanustiak patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 Ruud Koot (talk | contribs) marked العقيد القذافي patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 COIBot (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/Local/spectrasonics.net patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 COIBot (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam/LinkReports/spectrasonics.net patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 Inwind (talk | contribs) marked Sarah Glaser patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 AshLin (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Avingodb patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 Epbr123 (talk | contribs) marked User talk:86.181.214.214 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:31, 28 February 2011 Ruud Koot (talk | contribs) marked العقيد معمر القذافي patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:30, 28 February 2011 Ezhiki (talk | contribs) marked Template:RussiaAdmMunRef/mos/munlist/dmitrovsky patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:30, 28 February 2011 Bonadea (talk | contribs) marked Vlogstreet patrolled ‎
* 18:30, 28 February 2011 JuneGloom07 (talk | contribs) marked Aaron Barkley patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:30, 28 February 2011 Bonadea (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Mancis4productions patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:30, 28 February 2011 Bonadea (talk | contribs) marked Mancis4 productions patrolled ‎
* 18:30, 28 February 2011 JohnCD (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Chasetwomey/Zoro Tools patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:29, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:ReiqArtist patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:29, 28 February 2011 AudeBot (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Kunabomber patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:29, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:XVemoKidx patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:29, 28 February 2011 Bonadea (talk | contribs) marked Lightspeed Magazine patrolled ‎
* 18:29, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Gerbil2 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:29, 28 February 2011 Black Falcon (talk | contribs) marked Category:Air-to-surface missiles of the Soviet Union patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:28, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Usheroinfo patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:28, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Daniel.Rembish patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:28, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User in DPRK patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:28, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:203.82.95.56 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:27, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Andyp1981 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:27, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User DPRK patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:27, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:97.82.178.77 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:27, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Bomboor patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:27, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:68.38.175.135 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:26, 28 February 2011 Deb (talk | contribs) marked Alexandre Brussilovsky patrolled ‎
* 18:26, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:ArmenianMusicCenter patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:26, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Viks0711 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Volunteer Marek (talk | contribs) marked Talk:Artur Gold patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Wikid77 (talk | contribs) marked Template:Convert/LoffAonSoff/sandbox patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Armbrust (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Abdulkumar patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Valfontis (talk | contribs) marked User talk:MacSemiFromToronto patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User ROK patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Bermicourt (talk | contribs) marked Talk:North Bohemian Basin patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:25, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User in ROK patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:24, 28 February 2011 Jllm06 (talk | contribs) marked Category:Populated places in Sawyer County, Wisconsin patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:24, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:163.150.32.219 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 Acabashi (talk | contribs) marked Falkner Eggington Court patrolled ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 The High Fin Sperm Whale (talk | contribs) marked User talk:93.69.90.119 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:86.145.231.116 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User in South Korea/doc patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 Syrthiss (talk | contribs) marked User talk:Dillbagmuham patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 JuneGloom07 (talk | contribs) marked Father Capetola patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:23, 28 February 2011 RFD (talk | contribs) marked John Rice Jones patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:22, 28 February 2011 Bermicourt (talk | contribs) marked Talk:North Bohemia patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:22, 28 February 2011 Buaidh (talk | contribs) marked Template:User in South Korea patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:22, 28 February 2011 Jaknouse (talk | contribs) marked Victorian fern craze patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:22, 28 February 2011 JuneGloom07 (talk | contribs) marked Roberta Marley patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:22, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:207.255.41.65 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:22, 28 February 2011 Namiba (talk | contribs) marked Old Port Festival patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:21, 28 February 2011 The Bushranger (talk | contribs) marked Wikipedia:DONTASSUME patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:21, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:59.182.139.56 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:20, 28 February 2011 Acabashi (talk | contribs) marked Chadwick M-Dog patrolled ‎
* 18:20, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:108.5.115.171 patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:19, 28 February 2011 AnemoneProjectors (talk | contribs) marked File talk:Yusef-Khan EE.jpg patrolled (automatic) ‎
* 18:19, 28 February 2011 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) marked User talk:165.29.44.133 patrolled (automatic) ‎


--Highspeedrailguy (talk) 19:43, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Why do we need all that? Also, I see that it has all namespaces, where we've just been discussing patrolled pages in article space (ns:0). --Redrose64 (talk) 19:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
If it's any help, on or around 13 October last year, I carried out a massive attempt to clear the backlog from the bottom to achieve just a three day safety margin from the 30-day drop-off point. At that time, there were around, I beleieve, 250- 350 unpatrolled pages per day during that period of preceding 30 days, which is what precipitated my idea to launch the development of a project for the registering and categorisation of these unpatrolled pages. I remain fully convinced that it is impossible for any one (or even two) NP patrollers to sensibly clear much more in the space of three days and nights. We seriously need to establish whether this current situation is the result of enthusiastic patrolling or a technical glitch. Kudpung (talk) 04:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
My theory is that the backlog at Special:Newpages got cleared out somehow through a glitch during the upgrade to 1.17. I don't think there's anything that can be done about that. It appears that Newpages is working correctly now, and I'd expect the backlog to slowly start growing again. I see roughly 2 days of backlog currently. —SW— spill the beans 19:39, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, actually, here's a strange example. Till the World Ends was created on February 17th, but was just patrolled about 30 minutes ago today (March 4). User:Kudpung mentioned that he saw that article in the Newpages list earlier today, see his post here from an hour or two ago. For the past week, we've had only a day or two of backlog at Newpages, how could an article from 2 weeks ago show up there all of a sudden? Something is fishy... —SW— confer 19:55, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Until yesterday the article was a redirect, so it wouldn't appear by default in the newpages list. 20:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Good call. Nevermind. —SW— talk 21:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
And as long as we're on this subject... those few of us out there would love some more help so that it doesn't "return to normal". And by the way, you can thank Ironholds for clearing the backlog; see here. Since then, I've been patrolling easily a couple hundred a day to try to keep Special:NewPages from flooding again; I cleared almost 250 a little while ago. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 08:39, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
By my reckoning that could be as much as 8 hours work. Kudpung (talk) 12:20, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
The way I read, I can handle the rate I've been going at; I'm easily in the 99th percentile for reading in both speed and comprehension. But yeah, it's a lot; you figure at that point it was Ironholds, Kamkek, and myself doing most of it, and split between us it would have been about 2 1/2 hours each. It wasn't quite that much, since there was some help, but I think I put in almost 2 hours here and there on that day. Getting new patrollers seems to be impossible, and I can't really blame people for not wanting to do it, but it leaves us where we are now. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:39, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
You'd be surprised actually. According to the logs there are quite a lot of new people chipping in. It's a good place for newcomers to start learning about deletion policy, but of course some inevitable errors creep in, and recently while looking for a possible glitch we've come across a lot of poorly tagged pages or pages patrolled but not tagged. The current effort is to localise whether the huge backlog disappeared as a result of a tech glitch, or through overenthusiastic patrolling. If three of you shared that work, your math sounds about right. Naturally the goal is to not have a massive 30-day backlog at all, but quality is still better than quantity. If you come across anything that seems odd, do let us know. One way to check is to occasionally re-patrol the pages that have been patrolled. Kudpung (talk) 11:30, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I imagine a large part of the problem now is that Twinkle right now isn't automatically marking things as patrolled, even though it says it does. If and when they fix that bug, there shouldn't be as much of a problem with articles that are tagged but not marked patrolled. After that, it's just a matter of reminding people to actually mark the pages when they're done, and as you said to re-patrol pages that are already marked. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 15:54, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I've worked out why the number of unpatrolled pages being added to Special:Newpages seems lower - a large number of editors have recently been granted the autopatroller right, including yours truly. It seems that in January the threshold for this right was reduced from 75 to 50 articles created, so they ran a report to see who had created more than 50 articles but wasn't already an autopatroller, and granted it on a case-by-case basis. More autopatrollers means less yellow stripes at Special:Newpages even though the article creation rate is probably about the same. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:10, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, yes; I did notice a reduction in volume after those discussions (one at WT:CSD and one at WP:VPP). That certainly helped. And for those interested, there's an RfC going on now here on a related issue, over where to set the bar for article creation. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:26, 14 March 2011 (UTC)