Wikipedia talk:Article Rescue Squadron/Archive 13

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Archive 12 Archive 13 Archive 14

Needing diplomacy and finesse


Both Ancient Tombs of Goguryeo and Joseon tongsinsa are AfD nominated. Both are noteworthy subjects; but both are entirely unsourced and both are awkwardly written. Both were created by the same contributor who abandoned them and Wikipedia soon after.

The unverifiable text at Ancient Tombs of Goguryeo could be merged with the better written, but also unsourced prose at Complex of Goguryeo Tombs ... but the content problems would remain unaddressed. As a result of feedback at AfD, I learned that UNESCO has identified the Goguryeo mounds as a World Heritage Site.

Similarly, the unverifiable narrative at Joseon tongsinsa would be merged with the unsourced table at Joseon Tongsinsa ... but the essential problems in each article are unaffected. As a result of feedback at AfD, I looked into this subject a bit further and learned that in 2008, an application has been filed with UNESCO to register "Joseon Tongsinsa" on the World Cultural Heritage list.

I myself lack the optimistic temerity even to attempt to bridge these substantive gaps. In this instance, I'm persuaded that bold would be unwise, perhaps foolish for someone like me to do more. --Tenmei (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I have tagged Ancient Tombs of Goguryeo for rescue. I have not done so for Joseon tongsinsa since I feel this was a bad AfD nom, and in such cases I feel in such cases that {{rescue}} is not quite the way to go. I have no doubt someone else will tag. In both cases the work that is needed is for someone with overview of the sources to merge the relevant articles together. Taemyr (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Taemyr -- Please allow me to reiterate that I will gladly apologize if or when I come to understand and agree with your point of view. I continue to assert, and to believe, that the article as it now stands does meet the criteria for deletion. However, as this posting makes clear, I'm committed to doing what I can to ensure that neither Joseon Tongsinsa nor Joseon tongsinsa deleted thoughtlessly or casually. --Tenmei (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
With the exception of copyvios and attack pages AfD's is always about the potential that a topic have. Never about what the current state of an article is. Taemyr (talk) 22:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
In light of your last posting, I will re-visit the guidance pages which informed my AfD nomination. I do not now recall reading that an assessment of potential becomes a relevant factor in this process. You may notice that I've underlined two sentences above. Even as I re-examine the criteria for AfD, I don't want to undervalue these unexpected and constructive consequences of this step in an oblique direction. --Tenmei (talk) 23:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
The relevant section is WP:BEFORE on the procedure page, and WP:ATD on the policy page. Taemyr (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Also note that it's specifically the nom of Joseon tongsinsa that I react to, since discussions of alternatives already where underway at that article. Taemyr (talk) 00:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
We are on the same page -- specifically WP:BEFORE and the sentence highlighted in bold:
  • "If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a good candidate for AfD."
It was specifically that sentence in that section which informed my decision -- and in light of what has happened since, I think that assessment and judgment is born by what has developed. I'm astonished that we read the same sentence, we examined the same edit history and text, we are informed by the same record of an extended discussion -- and yet we draw such disparate conclusions.
I was referring to the sections. WP:BEFORE also includes statements such as
  • Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD.
WP:ATD states;
  • If two pages are duplicates or otherwise redundant, one should be merged and redirected to the other, using the most common, or more general page name. This does not require process or formal debate beforehand.
  • The content issues should be discussed at the relevant talk page, and other methods of dispute resolution should be used first, such as listing on Wikipedia:Requests for comments for further input. Deletion discussions that are really unresolved content disputes may be closed by an administrator, and referred to the talk page or other appropriate forum.
Taemyr (talk) 07:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
It is no mere "wonkery" for me to assert here that my AfD nomination was explicitly informed by WP:ATD -- both by the "Editing" sub-section and by the "Merging" sub-section; but this becomes worth pondering further. --Tenmei (talk) 01:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
My appologize, it was not my intention to call your nomination process wonkery. If you read my comments that way please accept my reasurrance that this was not how my comments was intended. Taemyr (talk) 07:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The Adventures of Brer Rabbit


The Adventures of Brer Rabbit - not quite sure if it should be tagged for ARS. Currently in AfD ( Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Adventures of Brer Rabbit ). With all the talent listed in the article's sidebar, seems like there should be something that passes movie notability guidelines, but a cursory review doesn't support it. Will an experienced ARS member take a look and decide if it should be rescue tagged? Thank you! LaughingVulcan 02:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. definitely looks rescue-able. Banjeboi 10:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I added a bunch of refs to the AfD page, but haven't had a chance to integrate them into the article. Feel free to do so, as I may not have time to before the AfD closes. However, things are almost snow'ing keep on the basis of those sources, looks like. Jclemens (talk) 14:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal mention

If you haven't seen it, the Wall Street Journal did a rather long article on Wikimania, and it mentions ARS. Enjoy. Jim Miller See me | Touch me | Review me 02:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

tagged articles

Smackdown vs Raw 2009 Roster

Resolved: deleted. Banjeboi 09:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Karthik Kumar N G (Vishwa)

Resolved: deleted. Banjeboi 23:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Elite Four members

Resolved: deleted. Banjeboi 00:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Master game server

Resolved: deleted. Banjeboi 00:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Odessa (Wild Arms 2)

Resolved: Deleted with redirect. Banjeboi 00:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


Resolved: Deleted. Banjeboi 00:19, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Desktop Destroyer

Resolved: Article kept. Banjeboi 23:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Prelate Annalina

Resolved: No consensus. Banjeboi 23:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Witch Hunters

Resolved: deleted - redirect to another topic. ::Banjeboi 20:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Zittel's Marina

Resolved: Deleted. ::Banjeboi 20:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


Resolved: article deleted. -- Banjeboi 13:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Chronicles of the Sword characters

Resolved: article deleted. -- Banjeboi 13:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Mr. Wormwood, and
Bruce Bogtrotter

Resolved: No concensus on Mr. Wormwood, Bruce Bogtrotter deleted with redirect. -- Banjeboi 13:26, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Harlan Rook

Resolved: deleted. -- Banjeboi 13:27, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Ben Mitchell (film character)

Resolved: Merged to Wolf Creek (film). -- Banjeboi 13:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Irina (General Hospital)

Resolved: deleted. -- Banjeboi 13:29, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Rolando Gomez

Resolved: deleted. -- Banjeboi 13:30, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Snorri Snorrelssen

Resolved: two articles merged. -- Banjeboi 18:11, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Marcia Overstrand

Resolved: Article merged. -- Banjeboi 18:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Technology of the Tau Empire (Warhammer 40,000)

Resolved: Article deleted. -- Banjeboi 18:21, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Births, Marriages and Deaths

Resolved: Deleted. -- Banjeboi 19:08, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Decade nostalgia

Resolved: Article deleted. -- Banjeboi 19:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Gamer Tonight

Resolved: Deleted. -- Banjeboi 19:10, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Stuart M. Pepper

Resolved: speedy delete. -- Banjeboi 20:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Angry left

Resolved: Deleted. -- Banjeboi 05:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Rescue - But Not Tagged

The Article Rescue Squadron guidelines say don't rescue-tag a page if you're th primary editor but add it here instead; but I can't see a suitable section to add it to?

The page I'd like some help saving is Alan_Pipes. Thanks for help and comments. WorthyDan (talk) 16:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it's a bit confusing. On that article you have a "prod" that if left uncontested will be automatically deleted. Use {{hangon}} directly below that prod tag if you intend to improve the article and post on the talkpage of that article what you will be doing immediately to appease concerns. In this case you will need reliable sources asserting that the author and/or books are noteworthy. If you aren't able to quickly do that you may also ask that if the article is deleted that it be userfied so you can work on it at a more relaxed pace in your userspace then repost it when it's ready. -- Banjeboi 22:13, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, that's not quite correct. Use {{hangon}} if an article is tagged for speedy deletion. Any editor who contests the use of a {{prod}} can simply delete it, giving an appropriate edit summary. Unless either 1) they aren't paying attention to the article anymore, or 2) you've done some stunning improvements so that the editor who placed the prod no longer believes that the article merits deletion, the editor who placed the prod will typically nominate the article for deletion, WP:AfD. That is normally the venue that ARS looks to make improvements, since an AfD discussion typically runs for 5 days. If the nomination is off base, often it will fail anyways. What seems to be the most common issue in AfD's these days is adding reliable sources. Jclemens (talk) 22:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
OK, I reviewed it and deprodded it. I'm leaving specific recommendations for future improvements on the article talk page. Cheers! Jclemens (talk) 23:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Tagged articles

J. J. Thiel,
Frank Armin,
Harry Brock,
Wes Buller,
Jake Cabell,
Bill Carroll,
Fred Clapp,
Don Copper,
Fred Dittman,
Chris Douglas,
Phil Hower,
Robert Hower,
Harold Hunt,
Jay Mack Love,
Ray Morrison,
Dick Nolan, and
Jim Paramore

Resolved: All deleted except Willis Bates and Harry Huston (separated on their own for archiving). -- Banjeboi 22:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
  1. J. J. Thiel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  2. Frank Armin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  3. Harry Brock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  4. Wes Buller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  5. Jake Cabell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  6. Bill Carroll (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  7. Fred Clapp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  8. Don Copper (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  9. Fred Dittman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  10. Chris Douglas (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  11. Phil Hower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  12. Robert Hower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  13. Harold Hunt (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  14. Jay Mack Love (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  15. Ray Morrison (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  16. Dick Nolan (football coach) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  17. Jim Paramore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)