Wikipedia talk:Article titles

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standard keyboard characters[edit]

This article suggests there may exist any single «standard keyboard characters». This is wrong as keyboard standards may be in number or in characters comparable to the number of nations or the number of languages.

Additionally, you cannot expect from the reader being in one country to know what are the characters available on your specific keyboard and you cannot expect him to imagine what standard keyboard characters can be.

For instance, Many US keyboards sold do not have the extra US-International characters or AltGr engraved on the keys, although € (AltGr+5) always is; nevertheless, the keys work as expected even if not marked. (QWERTY). This means that € is an acceptable character? Correct?

Or also, the United Kingdom and Ireland use a keyboard layout (...) very similar to that of the United States, but (...) includes £ and € signs, that is the currency of United Kingdom and Ireland.

So I suggest to replace standard keyboard characters by English keyboard characters which might be less vague, if we mean English keyboard characters or by any keyboard characters if we mean any keyboard characters.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.199.96.122 (talk) 20:56, 12 July 2016‎

Notre Dame[edit]

I'm concerned at the wider implications of Talk:Notre-Dame de Paris#Requested move 20 March 2017.

As I see it, the article was moved to conform to French usage, ignoring appeals to English usage.

If this principle is upheld, there are quite radical consequences to many article titles, ISTM. Andrewa (talk) 22:15, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't see any huge or radical consequences... I suppose the move closure can be seen as creating a exception to a generally sound rule, but this policy is written in a way that intentionally embraces the idea that we can make occasional exceptions, if there is consensus to do so. Blueboar (talk) 00:29, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
English usage is divided, running at slightly over half in accord with French usage. There is no "standard" English usage that's being disregarded. Correct French and slim-majority English coincide. Awien (talk) 04:00, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks... If that's the reason for this closure, I'd have no problem with it. But ISTM that the !votes that support the hyphen appeal to French usage; If these are discounted there would be no consensus to move. That's the problem. Andrewa (talk) 05:32, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks again, and again if there's consensus that this should be an exception then I'd agree with the move. But I see no such consensus, or even discussion in those terms. The argument seems to be that we should follow correct French usage. That's what might be the thin edge of a very interesting wedge. Andrewa (talk) 05:32, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't see any "wedge" here. But if there is, it would be a very limited one. I suppose there is some merit to the argument that common non-English usage might be used as a "tie breaker", in the rare situations when English usage is so mixed that we can not determine a COMMONNAME English variant. But there are going to be very few article titles where that will be the case (mixed English usage and common non-English usage). So few, that we don't need to amend the policy to account for them. Just chalk them up to "we made an exception to the norm in these cases, and exceptions to the norm do not set a precedent". Blueboar (talk) 12:06, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

RfC on the WP:ANDOR guideline[edit]

Hi, all. Opinions are needed on the following: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#RfC: Should the WP:ANDOR guideline be softened to begin with "Avoid unless" wording or similar?. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:11, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Article title question relating to Formula 1 and IndyCar motorsport[edit]

I've followed F1 for over 20 years. I used to watch the Champ Car series before the reunification with IndyCar, and watch it occasionally since. There was a recent discussion at the DYK project over an IndyCar event article and it led me to thinking about article naming and the use of corporate names of race sponsors in WP article titles.

but not from

My point is not the inconsistency within the IndyCar naming, which is a topic for the American Open Wheel Racing WikiProject), or the inconsistent redirects (which can simply be created) or that F1 and IndyCar / Champ Car have different approaches {a topic bringing in the Motorsport and F1 WikiProjects). To me, these are secondary considerations that follow after the policy issue about including corporate names in article titles. It is my intention, following this discussion, to post to the WikiProjects and not to make any unilateral changes, but my posting here is seeking an objective and outsider view from a policy perspective. (Of course, anyone may comment / respond, I am just explaining why I am posting this question here.)

My inter-related questions are: From the perspective of wiki-policy and neutral / non-promotional editing:

  • is the inclusion of the title sponsors of races in article titles for individual events (like the 2010 Honda Grand Prix of St. Petersburg) or for articles covering the history of a race over time (like the Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg) acceptable?
  • Is it desirable?
  • Is it not a policy issue and so should be left up to individual WikiProjects and local consensus so it is consistent within sports?
  • Is the application of WP:COMMONNAME leading to a different preferred name for F1 and IndyCar (title sponsors are mentioned much less often in F1, in my experience, but that is purely anecdotal) the natural outcome?
  • Am I just overthinking?
  • Any other thoughts / comments?

Thanks, and apologies for this post being so long. EdChem (talk) 02:37, 25 April 2017 (UTC)