Wikipedia talk:Babel

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Moroccan Arabic?[edit]

Seems I can't find it... Any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabertooth (talkcontribs) 13:40, 26 January 2007

Professional level of Danish[edit]

Hi, I've made a da-5 userbox:

da-5 Denne bruger kan bidrage med dansk på et professionelt niveau.

Wanted so badly to show it off on my user page. =P

Request: a way to say "i know this language" but WITHOUT implied invitation to discuss in that language[edit]


I found Babel intriguing and so added a template to my own user page per instructions.

But I don't want to have discussions on this English-language wikipedia in any other language than English!

My impression is that by listing other languages, there's an implicit invitation to actually carry discussions in those languages. I don't want that.

Is there (or can you add a request to create) a way to indicate fluency without this implied invitation?

To be clear, something like:

"This user can contribute with an intermediate level of Esperanto but please don't take that as an invitation to start discussions in that language! Please start any discussions in English here on English-language Wikipedia."

CapnZapp (talk) 18:35, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

en-4 compared to de-4[edit]

Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but there is a small but significant anomaly between the en-4 and de-4 descriptions:

en-4 = This user can contribute with a near-native level of English. de-4 = Dieser Benutzer hat Deutschkenntnisse auf muttersprachlichem Niveau.

The difference is therefore between "near-native" and "native". My mother tongue is English, I also have a near-native level of German, but the German description lacks this important distinction. The nuance could be added by translating the sentence thus: Dieser Benutzer hat Deutschkenntnisse auf fast muttersprachlichem Niveau.

Any thoughts? I know it's of minor importance to the majority, but it seems that there is a discrepancy here.

Mowerbyte (talk) 13:57, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Try {{#babel:en-4|en-N|de-4|de-N}} and compare the results:
I don't know enough German to decide if it's correct or not; but I'm certain that level 4 is not intended to be unqualified "native", that is why we provide level N. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:06, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Well, en-N and de-N are crystal clear: both describe native speakers, no ifs, no buts, no confusion whatsoever!
However, as I already pointed out, there is a clear discrepancy between en-4 and de-4.
The former (en-4) uses the word "near" (meaning almost, close to); whereas de-4 is essentially the same as de-N inasmuch as it states that the user speaks at the level of a native speaker - there is no qualifying "near", "almost", "close to". The English translation for de-4 would be This user speaks German at the level of a native speaker; the translation for de-N would be This user is a native speaker of German. To summarise: if level 4 is not intended to be unqualified "native", then the German translation (de-4) is not accurate as it states that the speaker has a native speaker's command of the language, rather than a near native speaker. There is, perhaps, a hint in the German that the user was not originally "born into" the language; but my feeling is that this should be made clearer.
Basically I am asking whether there would be sufficient consensus to modify de-4 to include a qualifying word such as "near" (in German) to correspond to the English version in en-4 (I've made a specific suggestion above).
It's a subtle, but to my mind important distinction. It would be interesting to hear some thoughts from German (native) speakers... Mowerbyte (talk) 20:47, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
I've just looked at the equivalent page on German Wikipedia de:Wikipedia:Babel where there is a different example given for de-4 In German: Diese Person beherrscht Deutsch auf annähernd muttersprachlichem Niveau. meaning "This person has a near-native command of German" - the word annähernd (near) is what I was missing. However, if I add de-4 this small but essential qualifier that differentiates de-4 from de-N is absent'. Confusing.Mowerbyte (talk) 23:09, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
That page uses the template {{babel|de-4}}, not the parser function {{#babel:de-4}}. They have different effects:
The only significant difference is the presence or absence of "annähernd". It is important to compare like with like. So a comparison of {{babel|de-4}} used on English Wikipedia with the same syntax used on German Wikipedia is valid, as is a comparison of {{#babel:de-4}} used on English Wikipedia with the same syntax used on German Wikipedia; but a comparison of {{#babel:de-4}} used on English Wikipedia with {{babel|de-4}} used on German Wikipedia is not valid. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:49, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

That's a very comprehensive explanation of the difference between templates and parsers, thank you for that User:Redrose64. I'm not at all clear where is the best forum to pursue this query, but as it's essentially an issue in German, I suspect the Babel page on German Wikipedia would be more appropriate? Mowerbyte (talk) 22:35, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Native German speaker: I recommend to address the Babel page in German, because it's the German wording that is inconsistent. Why "beherrscht" (masters) here, but "speaks" (speaks) there? - while an equivalent to "contributes" would be nice: written language rather than spoken. Why "annähernd" instead of a simple "fast"? Just an example. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:47, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Good call, Gerda - thanks for your suggestion, I'll follow up there (when I have a moment!). It does seem to be the German side that needs attention. Mowerbyte (talk) 17:43, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Old Norse[edit]

Is there a way I could make one for Old Norse, or do I have to request it made?Schwiiz (talk) 02:54, 9 July 2017 (UTC) {{#babel:non-0|non-1|non-2|non-3|non-4|non-5|non}}

@Schwiiz: Yes, there is: note that you should use the parser function method, because the old {{babel}} template doesn't provide all of the levels. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Thank you, I'll keep that in mind for future reference as my Norse gets better. Schwiiz (talk) 21:17, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Userbox for the Gaddang language (ISO-639-3: gad)[edit]

As the title states, I wish to make a userbox for speakers of the Gaddang language, such as myself. My problem with using the ISO-639-3 code is, Template:User gad is for Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Of course there are considerably more people with GAD than there are people who speak Gaddang, but I still want to make a template for it. For the time being, I have it in a sandboxed page under my userspace using User gaddang as a category, so as not to overlap with the user category for GAD.

What alternatives do I have for the language codes I can use for the template? Should I create the template as Template:User gaddang or just confine it to my userspace for now? Thank you very much! --a u t a c o i d (stalk) 13:32, 18 August 2017 (UTC) {{#babel:gad-0|gad-1|gad-2|gad-3|gad-4|gad-5|gad}}

@Autacoid: You don't need to set anything up, it's already been done. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 05:53, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Thank you very much! How do I edit the templates so that the text is in the language, though? I also need to fix the redlink, since there is an article about the language on en Wikipedia. --a u t a c o i d (stalk) 12:41, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
EDIT: Apparently using the parser means the userbox no longer has a link to the language in question from the ISO code. I still have no idea how to edit the text, though. --a u t a c o i d (stalk) 12:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
The {{#babel:}} system is supposed to be the same on all Wikipedias, Wiktionaries, Wikiquotes etc. (full list). Hence changes need to be centrally agreed, so a ticket at phab: is required. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Red Categories[edit]

Would you mind taking the red categories User non-5User non-NUser gadUser gad-1User gad-2User gad-3User gad-4User gad-5User gad-N off this page? Or alternatively, can you create the categories? Rathfelder (talk) 22:34, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

@Rathfelder: it was a demo in the two threads immediately above. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:56, 1 October 2017 (UTC)