Wikipedia talk:Babel

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Wikipedia:Babel is part of WikiProject Userboxes. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as part of the userboxes system. WikiProject Userboxes itself is an attempt to improve, grow and standardize Wikipedia's articles and templates related to the userbox system, used on many users' pages. We need all your help, so join in today!
 

Moroccan Arabic?[edit]

Seems I can't find it... Any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabertooth (talkcontribs) 13:40, 26 January 2007

Professional level of Danish[edit]

Hi, I've made a da-5 userbox:

da-5 Denne bruger kan bidrage med dansk på et professionelt niveau.



Wanted so badly to show it off on my user page. =P

Suggesting an additional 'level': 'L' for Learners.[edit]

Dear fellow editors interested in userboxes, Face-smile.svg
I am in the process of learning (European) Portuguese, and created the following userbox to include on my user page:

pt-L

Although the 'L' is obviously not one of the accepted ILR scale levels ('0' to '5'), the 'learner' symbol is used in many countries to identify people learning to drive. So, I thought it would be fun to apply it for the purpose of enabling Wikipedians to declare that they're currently learning a language; that is to say, Wikipedians with an ILR scale higher than '0' but lower than '1' in that language. After a while, the learner would feel s/he has attained a level higher than '0', and could therefore adopt one of the other, standard userboxes.

I am offering the idea here, for consideration. However, since it is highly improbable that this new level of proficiency would ever be adopted as part of Wikipedia's Babel project, I have not bothered to create a category for 'Wikipedians learning European Portuguese', which would be required otherwise. (And it is highly likely that such a category would be nominated immediately for speedy deletion, if I had).

In any case, if anyone wishes to re-use the above userbox and modify it for the language(s) they're learning, then please be my guest. Face-wink.svg

With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 18:36, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

The babel system is intended to be the same for all Wikimedia projects - if a user has e.g. {{#babel:en-N|fr-1}} on their user page at English Wikipedia, they should be able to use exactly the same code on their user pages at all other Wikipedia languages, at the various languages for wiktionary, Wikisource etc., at Commons, Meta, Wikidata and anything else that I've omitted. This means that this is the wrong place to propose it. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:09, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
@Redrose64: Dear Redrose64, Face-smile.svg
Thank you for your helpful comment; I am honoured by your intervention, although somewhat contrite also at causing a micro-waste of your precious time. Face-wink.svg Seriously, though: I am sure I should learn more about the whole Foundation project, beyond en.Wikipedia, as I know very little about the whole edifice. I occasionally visit Commons or the fr.wiki, but that's about it. Basically, I just enjoy fixing typos, copy-editing and adding citations, here at the en.wiki. And having fun with userboxes, of course. I am therefore grateful to you for this pointer and, if I ever decide that this idea of 'L' should ever stand a chance, which I doubt, then I will try and find out at which talk page I should post the above proposal. In any case, it was good to communicate with you, as I've seen your username around, and thank you very much, once again, for intervening as you have, to point me in the right direction. Face-smile.svg
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 10:09, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
@Pdebee: The problem with that is that learning is a "process", whereas 0-5 represent a "capability" and you shouldn't mix them up. Even if you are a pt-3, you could still be "learning" to become a pt-4. From the Wiki perspective, it doesn't matter if you're a pt-1 because you learnt from your Portuguese grandmother and have now "unlearnt" 75% of what she taught you or because you're in the middle of taking night classes and learning new stuff every week. All that matters is what you can offer the encyclopedia right now. So I'd continue to restrict Babel boxes to 0-5, but maybe have a separate box for learning a language in the "hobby" userbox hierarchy, if you wanted one. JMO. Le Deluge (talk) 15:22, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
@Le Deluge: Dear Le Deluge, Face-smile.svg
Thank you for taking the time to comment so cogently. You are, of course, entirely correct in pointing out the difference between the 0-5 skill levels in their direct usefulness to our encyclopedia, with my idea of offering a userbox to Wikipedians who might simply wish to declare an interest in learning a given language for its own sake. Your suggestion to include such a learning userbox in the hobby userbox hierarchy is most excellent and I am thankful to you for making this suggestion, as it fits perfectly with the spirit of my original idea.
On the other hand, I can see a danger in overloading that hobby hierarchy with a very large number of userboxes (potentially: one for each language/dialect), unless I came up with a generic userbox to which the language being learned would be passed as a parameter.
I will think some more about this idea and, in the meantime, I want to thank you once again for taking the trouble of offering your most helpful suggestion, and for all your other contributions to our encyclopedia. Face-smile.svg
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 21:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
Yes. I had wondered about maybe an addition symbol to bolt on to the Babel boxes but on reflection I think it's best to keep their "purity" and have language learning as a hobby. Definitely the way to go would be to have a generic {{User lang learner}} where xx was a replaceable parameter - there's obviously code floating around the place to extract all sorts of information from language codes, so it makes sense to reuse it. You might want to ask over on Wikipedia:Requested templates. Le Deluge (talk) 23:05, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

xx-0 template suite MfD notice[edit]

It looks like the entire suite of xx-0 babel templates (including ones like {{User es-0}}, {{User st-0}}) have been nominated for deletion on the grounds that the categories they were formerly used to populate were deleted long ago. Also affected are {{User cu-N}}, {{User fb-3}} and {{User fb-4}}. See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Templates for deleted categories. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 13:46, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

There's also a separate discussion about Template:User en-0 at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User en-0. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 18:52, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

User apa[edit]

I thought I'd flag this one up. You'd expect Category:User apa and friends to refer to the Apache language, per ISO 639-2. In fact it's a hierarchy for the Americanist Phonetic Alphabet. I've adjusted the text to reflect that it's now changed name to Americanist phonetic notation, but didn't know what the procedure was beyond that, other than assuming 639 names should be protected.Le Deluge (talk) 01:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Simplification of User xx-x template sources[edit]

Hello, I would like to propose the use of {{User language box}} in the User xx-x templates to simplify their code without changing their functionality and to facilitate their migration to other wikis. For example, the current {{User en-3}} template's code

{{userbox-level
| level         = 3
| id            = [[English language|en]]
| info          = This user can contribute with an '''[[:Category:User en-3|advanced]]''' level of '''[[:Category:User en|English]]'''.
| usercategory  = User en-3
| nocat         = {{{nocat|}}}
}}

will simplify to

{{User language box
| id    = en
| level = 3
| info  = This user can contribute with an {level:advanced} level of {lang:English}.
| nocat = {{{nocat|}}}
}}

Note that the manual specification of categories is no longer needed, which is a big advantage when porting to wikis with differently named categories. Petr Matas 12:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Other wikis shouldn't have differently named categories. The point about the babel system is that the code is the same everywhere, so if I put {{#babel:de-1|en-N|fr-1|simple-2}} on my user page, I should not need to alter that if copying to any of my other user pages, and the result will be exactly the same. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:09, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
You are right when speaking about the template titles and codes passed to {{babel}} and {{#babel}}, but it is up to the community of a given wiki to decide which categories are populated using the given template. For example, wikis with no two-letter code for their language tend to use three-letter codes in the category names (pms:Categorìa:User eng), some wikis translate the category name (lb:Kategorie:Benotzer en), and some translate even the language name (es:Categoría:Wikipedia:Wikipedistas con conocimientos de inglés) and level (es:Categoría:Wikipedia:Wikipedistas con nivel intermedio de inglés). My proposal makes the info parameter independent of these conditions. Petr Matas 21:25, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Patent Nonsense[edit]

Wikipedia:Babel
q79BUNNY!eQQ-3 This user is a fluent speaker of Patent nonsense.
Search user languages

(only works for babel nonsense 3) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charizardmewtwo (talkcontribs) 16:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

It's transcluding {{User nonsense-3}}. What is the problem here? --Redrose64 (talk) 21:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Category redirects[edit]

Can someone who understands this system have a look at Category:User kmr & Category:User lrc and see if they can work out how to clear these category redirects? They've been hanging around for months and it would be good to finally clear them. Timrollpickering (talk) 08:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

If you use {{#Babel:kmr-2|lrc-2}}, as Hamid Hassani (talk · contribs) has essentially done, the page will be placed in four categories: Category:User kmr Category:User kmr-2 Category:User lrc Category:User lrc-2. These four occur because the global babel system expects to use a particular category setup, which has not been respected locally. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:42, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
@Redrose64: A couple of days ago, Tomrollpickering left a message on my talk page on the subject. I will revise these babel categories redirects on my user page at least, as soon as possible. Hamid Hassani (talk) 20:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)