Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons

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RfC on red links for persons[edit]

Regarding WP:REDLINK, there is an RfC about red links for persons. Editors are invited to comment here. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 16:44, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

RfC regarding the WP:Lead guideline -- the first sentence[edit]

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section#Request for comment on parenthetical information in first sentence. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:47, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Editorial control?[edit]

From WP:BLPSPS: "Some news organizations host online columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." How exactly can it be determined whether the hosting news organization has "full editorial control"? Does The Washington Post have full editorial control over The Monkey Cage blog or Wonkblog? What about Paul Krugman's or Frank Bruni's blog at the NYTimes? http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/blogs/directory.html Which of these NYTimes blogs count as 'full editorial control'? The fact that a reputable RS hosts a blog indicates that the organization vouches for the general accuracy and quality of the material there and would be legally liable if the blog libels a BLP. I suggest changing the sentence to "Some news organizations host online columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals or notable experts." 73.61.19.240 (talk) 02:26, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Compare WP:NEWSBLOG: "Several newspapers, magazines, and other news organizations host columns on their web sites that they call blogs. These may be acceptable sources if the writers are professionals, but use them with caution because the blog may not be subject to the news organization's normal fact-checking process." Given the nature of "news", almost all the content of such blogs is about the living or recently deceased so these two policies are in (de facto) contradiction. The spirit of the RS policy is that if a notable news organization 'publishes' a blog then it should be acceptable as a source whether or not it has 'full editorial control'. 73.61.19.240 (talk) 03:03, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
It's not always so black and white. Look at The Volokh Conspiracy, for example, which is one of The Washington Post's blogs. Eugene Volokh wrote in 2014 that he and his regular contributors "retain full editorial control over what we write". He's a distinguished law professor, so his SPS is generally considered reliable when it comes to legal matters, even though it's outside the editorial control of the publisher. But we wouldn't cite his blog when it comes to claims about living persons, or even non-BLP-related claims like a scientific discovery. It's not always easy to tell whether or not a blog is under editorial control of its publisher, which is part of the reason why noticeboards like WP:RSN and WP:BLPN exist. Woodroar (talk) 03:55, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
But purpose does that serve? WaPo gives its masthead to a blog like Volokh Conspiracy and publishes it, vouches for it and is legally responsible for it. If someone complained to the Washington Post about inaccurate or libelous material published on The Monkey Cage, the professors in charge of the blog would have to resolve the complaint to the newspaper's satisfaction or be sent packing. "Questionable sources are those that have a poor reputation for checking the facts, lack meaningful editorial oversight, or have an apparent conflict of interest." I think there is a distinction between day-to-day editorial *control* and long-term editorial oversight, which is vouched for by the fact that the Monkey Cage has been hosted by WaPo for nearly four years. 73.61.19.240 (talk) 05:04, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
They don't vouch for it, that's exactly the point. If a blog is outside their editorial control, the publisher is saying that they haven't vetted its contents, haven't run it through their normal fact-checking process, and so on. Whether or not the publisher is legally responsible isn't any concern of ours. Woodroar (talk) 05:42, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
The publisher is effectively deputing the people who run the blog as editors, which is a mark of confidence rather than the reverse. I understand the need to be conservative in BLPs, but by drawing the line in the sand “editorially independent blogs that are published by RS media outlets can’t be in BLPs”, regardless of their reputation for accuracy or the reputation of the media outlet that hosts them, WP is depriving itself of lots of valuable data while not measurably increasing source quality. I mean, do the guys at The Monkey Cage have a reputation for libeling people? Are they meticulous about corrections? Would Washington Post step in if they goofed?73.61.19.240 (talk) 06:23, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
It's not the case that publishers deputize their blog editors. The very first link at The Volokh Conspiracy homepage is an About page titled "Editorial independence" where they state how independent they are. Every article is flagged as "Opinion". Likewise, every article run by Forbes Contributors (at forbes.com/sites) has this disclaimer: "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own." These publishers are explicitly distancing themselves from that blog content. Woodroar (talk) 16:26, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

"Nader El-Bizri"[edit]

Please check what is taking place around the article "Nader El-Bizri" since this was proposed for deletion, but the reasons put forward touch upon statements that harm the reputation of the living person it covers. The ranking and merits of the work of a living person should be judged by their peers and not simply by random wikipedia users, especially if the deletion has not been requested by someone specializing in academia but by someone who has been covering businessmen and billionaires. Please check this serious matter since it lowers the integrity of wikipedia and causes actual harm to living people, especially if they are in the public domain and well known in their field (2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:8170:FF93:C1C4:942C (talk) 12:09, 8 July 2017 (UTC))

As I have read the prod, it does not put forward anything that would "harm" the subjects reputation. (talk page stalker) CrashUnderride 13:15, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Lele Pons[edit]

Good afternoon, I think someone should delete the text that says "page issues" in Lele Pons biography due to that the page already got enough references and citations, thank you. Sebasdiazorozco (talk) 22:55, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I don't know; every section but one ("Social media growth") still has referencing issues; either inclusing unreferenecd assertions or, in the case of "Nominations and awards", no references whatsoever.
I think it's better to have a single template at the top of the article than one in each of the three sections still needing work. TJRC (talk) 23:50, 20 July 2017 (UTC)