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WikiProject Catholicism / Canon law (Rated Project-class)
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Categories for discussion: Former Roman Catholic patriarchates[edit]

Naming of papal bio articles. Time to lineup with other monarchial article titles.[edit]

Perhaps it's time we agree to rename the articles from Pope Name to just Name, with Name (pope) for those that need disambiguation. Example: change Pope John Paul II to John Paul II & Pope John XXIII to John XXIII (pope). Take note for example, that we have Elizabeth II & not Queen Elizabeth II. GoodDay (talk) 22:25, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid that the problem that would suggest disapproving your proposal is that in comparison with royalties such as Elizabeth, the popes' names are often shared with a more vast amount of other ecclesiastical dignitaries of varying traditions in time and space. Chicbyaccident (talk) 22:48, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I see no need to change this. The "Pope X" format clearly and ambiguously identifies the subject as a past or present pope. I am aware of no circumstances that have changed to make this "the time". –Zfish118talk 23:41, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I often edit Pope-related articles (and I have edited or created most Antipope-related categories), though I am not a member of WikiProject Catholicism. In several cases the "Pope" is necessary for disambiguation purposes from other historical figures. Some examples:

  • Pope Linus. A 1st-century pope, using a Greek name which appears frequently in Greek mythology. The most notable figure with this name is Linus of Thrace, a legendary musician of disputed historicity and reputed son of Apollo. He is supposedly the creator of the "linos", a type of musical lamentation that resembles the dirge.
  • Pope Anacletus. A 1st-century pope whose name is the Greek term (in both ancient and modern Greek) for being "recalled". His name is also rendered as "Cletus" in some sources, and might be a variation of the Greek name Cleitus. The most notable person of this name Cleitus the Black, a military officer under Alexander the Great. Cleitus famously rescued the life of Alexander in a battle, but was later killed by Alexander in a drunken quarrel between them.
  • Pope Alexander I. Same name and ordinal with various kings and bishops, including Alexander I of Macedon (one of the combatants in the Greco-Persian Wars), Alexander I of Epirus (primarily known for military campaigns in the Italian Peninsula, and getting killed in the Battle of Pandosia), Pope Alexander I of Alexandria (a 4th-century Christian Patriarch, primarily known as an opponent to Arianism and as one of the leading figures in the First Council of Nicaea), Alexander I of Scotland (a king primarily known for his religious policies, a number of brutal military campaigns, and his inability to father children), Alexander I of Moldavia (a monarch primarily known for his internal reforms, and for switching from a vassal to an invader of Poland), Alexander I of Georgia (the last king of a unified Georgia, as his kingdom was already fragmenting during his reign), Alexander I Jagiellon (a monarch who created a crown union of Lithuania and Poland), Alexander I of Kakheti (a monarch whose diplomatic skills secured the kingdom from external threats, but who ended up murdered by one of his own sons), Alexander I of Russia (one of the combatants in the Napoleonic Wars and the key founder of the Holy Alliance), Alexander I of Bulgaria (the first monarch of modern Bulgaria), Alexander I of Serbia (the first constitutional monarch of Serbia, and primarily known for his assassination), Alexander I of Greece (a monarch with a brief-three year reign during World War I and the Greco-Turkish War), and Alexander I of Yugoslavia (a monarch primarily known for abolishing the constitution, reigning as a dictator, and for his assassination getting filmed and recorded). Most of them have a better claim to fame than the Pope.
  • Pope Telesphorus. A pope with a Greek (and pagan) name. Telesphorus was the name of a Greek god or demigod, to whom people prayed for recovery from an illness. There is also a historical general called Telesphorus. The general was a disloyal vassal of Antigonus I Monophthalmus, who briefly attempted to create his own splinter state.
  • Pope Hyginus. Same name with Gaius Julius Hyginus (often called just "Hyginus" in sources), a Roman mythologist, astronomer, and professional librarian, whose works are still extant (not all of them). Hyginus the writer is famous as one of our few primary sources on ancient mythology and astronomy.
  • Pope Anicetus. A pope with a Greek name. "Anicetus" is a Greek term for someone who has never been defeated, and is typically translated to English as "undefeated", "unconquered", or "invincible". As a personal name, it has been used for various figures, such as a minor Greek war deity (son of Heracles and Hebe), a Roman admiral (served under emperor Nero, primarily known for assassinating the empress Agrippina the Younger on Nero's orders), and an anti-Roman rebel and pirate chief (primarily known for destroying Vespasian's Roman fleet in a successful ambush). There is also a genus of wasps called Anicetus, but it is poorly covered in Wikipedia.
  • Pope Soter. A Pope with a Greek name, though a bit peculiar. Soter is a Greek epithet which means "saviour", and typically applied to various Pagan gods, and a number of Hellenistic monarchs who were credited with saving one or more cities from destruction. Christians applied the term "Soter" to Jesus, considering him as their saviour. Soter does not typically appear as a personal name, though the modern Greek name Sotirios is a linguistic derivative.
  • Pope Eleutherius. A Pope with a Greek name. "Eleutherius" means "Liberator", and was typically an epithet of the god Dionysus. Christians adopted the name, and we have articles on multiple Saints, bishops, patriarchs, and even a Byzantine Exarch who are all called Eleutherius.
  • Pope Victor I. Same name and ordinal with a number of nobles, primarily Victor I, Prince of Anhalt-Bernburg-Schaumburg-Hoym (a German prince from the House of Ascania) and Victor I, Duke of Ratibor (a Prussian noble, politician, and military officer). "Victor I" is also the abbreviation used for the original version of the Victor-class submarine, a class of nuclear-powered submarines of the Soviet Union. Dimadick (talk) 10:22, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
So you're opposed? Johnbod (talk) 16:16, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose Can't see any gain except consistency with other types of article, but there will clearly be newly-introduced inconsistency within the papal bios (see above). Bound to cause lots of work and confusion. Johnbod (talk) 16:16, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose It's not broken. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:30, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose Note that Elizabeth II is actually an exception to policy, because she is judged to be especially well-known by that title (see WP:NCROY, which specifically names her as a rare exception). Normal naming for monarchs is (Name) (number) of (country), e.g. Elizabeth I of England. There is no good equivalent for Popes (you could invent "Francis of the Holy See", but that would be wildly at odds with common usage) so 'Pope' as a prefix instead seems the best option. TSP (talk) 11:07, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Deuterocanonical books[edit]

For those interested, please join this discussion about categorisation of the Deuterocanonical books. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:23, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Amoris Laetitia[edit]

The wikipedia article on Amoris Laetitia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoris_laetitia) is highly biased in favor of critics of the document. Criticisms of the document are given a prominent place and in fact take up more of the article than the actual content of Amoris Laetitia. Most of the links are to publications that are critical of AL (NCRegister, EWTN's "World Over").

I think this should be a high priority for WikiProject Catholicism because it strikes at the very unity of our Church. I recommend WikiProject Catholicism take control of the article on Amoris Laetitia, rewrite it to focus on the actual content of the document, and leave the controversy for another article.

Happy to discuss.


PluniaZ (talk) 07:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Update: I have made a substantial rewrite of the article on Amoris laetitia. I would appreciate this community's feedback. PluniaZ (talk) 05:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move: List of Catholic churchmen-scientists → List of Catholic cleric-scientists[edit]

There is a move discussion taking place at Talk:List of Catholic churchmen-scientists § Requested move 18 November 2017 that may be of interest to members of the WikiProject regarding moving the article List of Catholic churchmen-scientists to the title List of Catholic cleric-scientists. All are invited to participate. 142.160.131.202 (talk) 20:37, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject[edit]

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Catholicism

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 14:02, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Many of these are easily modified, but some need someone with a geographical bent. See Dvorce. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 18:21, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for looking at them. This sort of example is why we need specialists to help with the process.— Rod talk 08:19, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Proposal to add some religious events to ITNR[edit]

There is currently a proposal to add some religious events at WP:ITNR. If adopted some or all of the listed events could be added to ITNR and be automatically posted to the main page conditional on the overall quality of the relevant articles. Interested editors are encouraged to join the discussion here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:13, 19 January 2018 (UTC)