Wikipedia talk:Categorization

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Western Europe example[edit]

Just to note that one of the examples in the Non-diffusing subcategories section appears to have been changed since the documentation was written. Category:Western Europe does not include the countries - they are within the Category:Western European countries subcat (although the {{All included}} template is still present). Nzd (talk) 04:45, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

I have changed the example to Category:Mountains of Switzerland (more or less randomly). Happy for anyone else to change this if there is a more appropriate example. I've also removed the {{All included}} template from Category:Western Europe. Nzd (talk) 09:42, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I've also just noticed that this is used as part of the main example in the Guidelines for articles with eponymous categories section, which is obviously now incorrect. Nzd (talk) 21:40, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Mass creation of category talk pages[edit]

I've had a disagreement with one editor who is very keen on project tagging large numbers of category pages, so I'm coming here for wider input. Should the mass creation of talk pages of categories (containing only wikiproject tags) be encouraged or discouraged?

The only advantage of tagging I could think is that the category will show up in the project's article alerts systems if the category is nominated at CfD, but I believe it's much more efficient to tag categories only if (and when) they do come up at CfD. Other than that, are there any reasons a project might want to track its categories? Given the large number of categories out there, and the lack of distinctions in quality or importance ratings, I'm not sure I see any point.

On the other hand, the existence of a category talk page can be a minor maintenance nuisance. First off, it adds an extra step in the process every time a category is renamed or deleted, though that's not really significant. A more important consideration is in the same direction as the reason why the {{WikiProject Disambiguation}} banner should not be placed on dab pages: when making major changes to a category, it's helpful to see if there have been previous discussions on the talk page, and if talk pages aren't generally project tagged, then this involves simply glancing at the talk page link: if it's blue, then there might have been a discussion, if it's red, then there isn't. This wouldn't work if all these links are blue.

What should be the relative weight of the disadvantages and the benefits? Are there any considerations I'm not aware of? – Uanfala (talk) 09:41, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

I would recommend that users take a look at Category:Category-Class articles and its subcategories (e.g. Category:Category-Class Architecture articles). Category tagging has happened on over 100,000 talk pages and has been happening for at least 12 years. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 09:47, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

A difference that I can see in the case of disambiguation pages is that there's already a template to mark them, making WikiProject Disambiguation tagging redundant. I've tagged categories for WP:SKEPTIC at times myself, although not massively. Some categories are obviously of interest to some projects and I don't see a problem with marking them if done correctly. —PaleoNeonate – 16:04, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
{{WikiProject Disambiguation}} is often used to mean "this page intentionally left blank", especially when the corresponding mainspace page has changed from a redirect into a dab. We rarely create talk pages just to hold that banner. Of course, category pages can't get repurposed in that way. Certes (talk) 16:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I've generally added wikiproject tags where I've come across a category page with a redlink talk page (including category pages I've created) - partly to "fix" the redlink (category pages, unlike articles, don't normally have redlinks). Of course, if consensus is that it's better to leave it as a redlink then I'd stop. DexDor (talk) 19:44, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Whether to add a WikiProject banner template to a category talk page (or any other kind of talk page, for that matter) is a decision that each WikiProject reserves for itself. If a WikiProject tells you (either directly, on your user talk page or through the edit summary of a revert; or indirectly, by having a "Project scope" section (or similar) on their main WikiProject page) that they don't want cat talk pages to be tagged, it's best to honour their wish. This is one of the few areas where WP:OWN does not apply. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:29, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable. But what should be the default choice if a wikiproject hasn't stated a preference? – Uanfala (talk) 20:43, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
One thing I would try is to add the WikiProject template and preview without saving. If one of the rows in the banner begins with a yellow rectangle containing the word "Category" in blue, followed by the text "This category does not require a rating on the project's quality scale", you're probably safe. But if it shows a white rectangle, with "NA" in blue followed by "This category does not require a rating on the quality scale.", I would omit the banner template. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:55, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! I've just had a look at {{WikiProject Languages}}, and the behaviour on previews seems to suggest tagging the category is fine. But then I wasn't able to find anything in the template's code that explicitly does anything for categories, so does that mean that this behaviour is the default of the metatemplate? That is, a white rectangle with "NA" will only show if the specific banner template has been specifically tweaked in a way that discourages categories? – Uanfala (talk) 21:34, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
The code for Template:WikiProject Languages includes |QUALITY_SCALE=subpage, which means that the various page types are defined in the custom class mask. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:47, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Uanfala wrote "I believe it's much more efficient to tag categories only if (and when) they do come up at CfD" – but who would tag the categories? IMHO it's unrealistic to impose this as a duty on nominators. Like DexDor, I make it a habit to add project tags on redlinked category talk pages, mainly in order to generate future alerts, and regardless of whether projects currently make other use of the info. I believe that assessment as "class=Category, importance=NA" is automated in most cases. – Fayenatic London 23:17, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, class and importance are autodetected for all namespaces except Talk: (the talkspace of article space). Class and importance are also autodetected for the talk pages of redirects in all namespaces. The preceding two sentences apply for all WikiProject banners that are built around {{WPBannerMeta}}, which in practice means all except about six of them. In short: you only need to worry about these two parameters for the talk pages of articles and the talk pages of disambiguation pages. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:58, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Table of years on century category pages[edit]

We have standard templates to display links to decade and year categories for (dis)establishments, e.g. see Category:20th-century disestablishments in Germany.

Template:EstcatCountryCentury has a parameter to suppress the table for centuries where the detailed categories have been merged, e.g. Category:14th-century establishments in Luxembourg.

Where a country's name changed during the century, some editors have been making tailored tables, covering only the relevant years. I have been compiling a list of these at Template talk:EstcatCountryCentury. In some cases these only cover part of one or two decades.

Hike395 (talk · contribs) recently deleted some of these tailored part-century tables with the edit comment "rm odd formatting in category space using AWB". I reinstated some of these, but then experimented with combining the years for different country names into one template to be used on the century category for both names.

Do editors find the partial-century table [1] or the multi-name table [2] more useful, or have any other suggestions for improvement? – Fayenatic London 20:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

The multi-name table is more informative, and it keeps navigation more consistent than the partial-century table. Thanks for your efforts! — JFG talk 20:45, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Subcategory placement[edit]

I realize that this has been brought up previously but I thought that I would bring it up again because I want to see some consistency on this project. There are a select few subcategories within Category:Unincorporated communities in the United States by state that only contain subcategories (NJ, RI, NY, MA) For Category:Unincorporated communities in New Jersey, is it wrong to place all entries within this category, like all of the other 46 states have included (2 redirects are currently within this category). My reasoning is that these unincorporated communities can be categorized both by county and state. So the reader has a choice of searching through either by the communities specifically sorted just in that county, or have a whole list within the entire state. See Category:Unincorporated communities in Pennsylvania that contains over 1400 entries. Each of these entries contain both the county category and state category. How come NJ and others should be treated differently? Tinton5 (talk) 21:28, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Tinton5: You asked exactly the same question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories#Subcategory placement nineteen hours earlier. Please see WP:MULTI. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Well because nobody answered there. I moved it to one place, here. It’d be nice instead of pointing out I posted something twice, that we can hear your feedback on the topic of categorization. Tinton5 (talk) 07:53, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
So nobody answered after nineteen hours. Boo-hoo. Remember that 02:30 (UTC) is the middle of the night in Europe and late evening in the eastern United States; some people only edit in the early evening, between evening meal and bedtime. We have discussion forums where it is considered good practice to wait a whole week before assuming that nobody will be answering. I am not obliged to give feedback on the topic of categorization; and nor is anybody else: we are all volunteers here. Maybe other people saw your original post, and are even now considering the best reply before posting it. Maybe they saw it but don't know the answer. Maybe the people who actually care about this haven't seen the post yet - perhaps they only check their watchlists once every 24 hours (or longer); maybe they only log in once a day. Maybe they're Jewish and refuse to use a computer on Shabbat. Maybe they participated in those previous discussions and are sick to the teeth with the whole thing and the thought of hacking it out all over again has made them turn away to something more rewarding. Maybe people simply don't care. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:23, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Feedback sought at The Aversion Project[edit]

Your feedback is requested regarding a possible issue of over-categorization. Please discuss at Talk:The Aversion Project#Over-categorization. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 23:30, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Categorization of eponymous categories[edit]

Hello. Koavf and I are disagreeing on the proper categorization of eponymous categories. See the discussion: Category talk:Black Francis#BRD discussion: Eponymous categorization. It has become clear that, regardless of whoever is right, there may be a lot of pages that would have to be changed. So the question is: Which categories should eponymous categories be placed in, and under what circumstances? — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  01:32, 16 October 2018 (UTC)