Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation

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WikiProject Disambiguation
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Disambiguation, an attempt to structure and organize all disambiguation pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can edit the page attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.
 

Two entries for dab - delete or retain?[edit]

If there are only two entries in a disambiguation page, then should that page be deleted and replaced with a hatnote? See Henry Moskowitz. Mitchumch (talk) 18:14, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

@Mitchumch: Only if one of the two is a primary topic. The activist has more mentions but neither man seems particularly prominent. WP:2DABS explains more fully, with examples. Certes (talk) 18:54, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. Mitchumch (talk) 19:22, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

RM discussion about temporally specific disambiguators like "(defunct)"[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Please see Talk:KCTY (defunct)#Defunct television station disambiguator changes.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  01:19, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Argh. This has WP:TALKFORKed into Talk:KAPY-LP (defunct)#Defunct radio station disambiguator changes, too.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  01:51, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
WP:TALKFORKed again! See Talk:KCLA_(defunct)#Defunct_radio_and_TV_station_disambiguator_changes_(consolidated) --В²C 20:24, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Servants of the People (disambiguation)[edit]

A disambiguation page Servants of the People (disambiguation) has been created, but there is no article titled Servants of the People. I discussed this briefly with the page creator Kirotsi on his talk page and he agrees that it needs to be changed. My question is, which route would be better - Servants of the People or Servant of the People (disambiguation) as the DAB page? I initially thought that hatnotes would be sufficient, but there is also Servants of the People Society. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Leschnei (talk) 12:52, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

What's the primary topic for "Servants of the People"? If there isn't one, put the disambiguation page at the base name. If there is one (Servants of the People Society?), redirect the base name to it and put a hatnote on that target pointing to the disambiguation page. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:31, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
There's Servant of the People (a Ukrainian television program), Servant of the People (political party), and Servants of the People Society. There is no Servants of the People. Leschnei (talk) 22:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Bike Week[edit]

This dab page has three entries. I think that Bike Week (Bicycle Week) has a clunky and unnecessary disambiguator and should be at the base name, with the dab page being at Bike Week (disambiguation). Any concerns? MB 03:45, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Use WP:RM to propose the moves of Bike Week to Bike Week (disambiguation) and Bike Week (Bicycle Week) to Bike Week. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 Done MB 22:17, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

DAB pages called 'The Ambiguous Thing'[edit]

Should DAB page The Ambiguous Thing be DEFAULTSORTed as 'Ambiguous Thing, The'? My feeling is that it should. However, with so many of them, I wouldn't want to edit the ones I keep falling across in User:DPL bot reports unless it's agreed to be a good idea. Narky Blert (talk) 10:39, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

I agree it's a good idea. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:08, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
Seconded. olderwiser 13:39, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
I also agree. bd2412 T 14:17, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
Agree. This is point 3 at WP:SORTKEY which I assume also applies to dab pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:04, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
  • I am running a routine for this now. bd2412 T 17:11, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Done, except for the following three: The 'Bu The 'Cuse The "s" word. Do these get defaultsorted with or without the leading punctuation? bd2412 T 19:59, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
I'd suggest, without the leading punctuation. A reader looking at an ordered list or a category would expect to find those sorted into the alphabet, not somewhere away from it. Narky Blert (talk) 09:28, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Done, cheers! bd2412 T 13:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment. DAB pages whose names begin 'A' or 'An', e.g. A Bridge Too Far, are very much less common than 'The'. They're probably best dealt with by hand, because there's a risk of accidentally catching e.g. Indian films where 'a' or 'an' is a word in a local language and not the English indefinite article. The same applies to definite and indefinite articles in languages other than English, e.g. French Le/La/L'/Les. Narky Blert (talk) 09:54, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Additional comment. Examples where 'an' must be the first word in the sortkey: An die ferne Geliebte (German), An Ruzi (Chinese), and An Dương Vương (Vietnamese). None of those is a DAB page, but the principle stands. Narky Blert (talk) 04:43, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Schools named "Attucks"[edit]

Any suggestions for how to sort out the articles Attucks High School, Crispus Attucks High School, and Attucks School? Thanks! Zagalejo^^^ 22:05, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Those three are in Hopkinsville, Kentucky; Indianapolis, Indiana; and Vinita, Oklahoma, and are all notable schools or buildings (we know they are notable in part because each is separately listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places).
And Attucks Elementary School is a redirect to Missouri's Kansas City Public Schools, where there is a row for "Crispus Attucks Elementary School - 2400 Prospect Avenue". And the Crispus Attucks article's mentions a few more schools, including Attucks Middle School in Sunnyside, Houston, Texas; Crispus Attucks Elementary School in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn; and Crispus Attucks Elementary School in East St. Louis, Illinois. There are probably more which can be mentioned in a list, whether or not they justify separate articles. I thought there were list-articles like "List of schools named for Lincoln" but that is a redlink. I do see that List of educational institutions named after presidents of the United States exists.
These schools are all named for Crispus Attucks. User:Zagalejo and me are not sure what is current practice for disambiguating or listing these. Do we create a List of schools named for Crispus Attucks? --Doncram (talk) 22:22, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Hmm, somewhat similar is situation of schools named after Clara Barton, for which Clara Barton School is disambiguation page (which i created back in2016). It includes a "see also" type link to Schools named for Clara Barton which is a redirect to a list within the Clara Barton article. I think doing similar now would be okay/good. Unless there are other suggestions, i may proceed to create Crispus Attucks School to serve as a disambiguation page, and rename the Oklahoma one so that Attucks School could redirect to the disambiguation, and expand a section within the Crispus Attucks article. Sound okay? Thanks for listening. :) --Doncram (talk) 00:59, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
There's currently no need to move any of the three articles Attucks High School, Crispus Attucks High School, and Attucks School (or the redirect Attucks Elementary School). A SIA List of schools named after Crispus Attucks (a la List of schools named after Francis Xavier) or a disambiguation page Attucks School (disambiguation) or Crispus Attucks School could be hatnoted or "See also"ed from each (including Attucks School). -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:07, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Attucks High School seems like a plausible search term for Crispus Attucks High School in Indianapolis. Note the title of this recent book. Zagalejo^^^ 00:31, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
Hatnotes can handle getting readers where they want to be, though. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:06, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
Hatnotes would certainly help, and for the time being, I'll just go ahead and add a few. But when it comes to schools named after historical figures, it's helpful to have one nicely organized starting point. The school in Hopkinsville has also been referred to as "Crispus Attucks High School" ([1], [2], [3], etc.) Now, it's possible that that was never the "official" name of the school, but it would be natural for people to assume that Crispus was part of the name. Zagalejo^^^ 01:56, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

DAB pages with missing links[edit]

The relevant report is so massive, and some of the problems so time-consuming or needing thought (DAB pages with a list of names + a corresponding (name) page, badly formatted DAB pages (especially pipes, and multiple links on one line), pages with malformed qualifiers, WP:PTOPICs buried somewhere in a (disambiguation) page rather than at the top, duplicate entries (sometimes as redirects), redlinks corresponding to an existing page, and so on), that I've adopted the approach of cherry-picking some of the easy-looking stuff when I'm in the mood for cherry-picking some easy-looking stuff. The report also throws up a few WP:PTMs which IMO probably shouldn't be on the DAB page (e.g. Poly(3,4-ethylenedioxythiophene) and Poly).

Plenty of work for any DABfixer at a loose end; feel free to join in. At least the list should only grow slowly, so even small efforts should help cut it down. Narky Blert (talk) 08:09, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

If you find any PTMs that shouldn't be there, you can list them on this page – that's not going to affect anything at the moment, but I'm hoping to persuade Dispenser, who created and maintains the report, to start excluding them. – Uanfala (talk) 08:48, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
Good idea. But as you say, no urgency with the size of the report as it is. Narky Blert (talk) 13:58, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

There should be a criteria for relative prominence[edit]

In the past I've taken out a few disambigs at the top of articles that were somewhat like the examples below. I was reverted, with the indications being that if someone was searching for the obscure meaning of the term, that guidlines suggest and allow it a disambig at the top of any article which is so-titled. I did not pursue further, so there are no debates on this.

So, let's say that I invent a strain of marijuana and name it "earth", and manage to get it mentioned in a Wikipedia article. Does that mean that at the top of the Earth article, I get to put "for "Earth" the marijuana product, see (the article which lists it)". ? I used the "earth" article to dramatize, but we have that exact situation at the Girl Scout Cookie article. Somebody has a strain of marijuana named "Girl Scout Cookies", and so it gets advertised at the top of the Girl Scout Cookie article. As I understand it, because somebody might punch in "Girl Scout Cookies" looking for the strain of marijuana, guidlines in essence suggest and allow it a(disambig) listing at the top of the Girl Scout Cookies article. My guess is that I can just try taking it out, so what to do on this particular case is not why I'm here. But, I've been there before and got reverted. I think that the guidline should state that if the disambig meaning is immensely less common than the meaning of the article, there should be no disambig statement for it. Or, if the disambig meaning has no stand-alone article, it should not be there. North8000 (talk) 12:43, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I think you're talking about the use of the {{for}} or {{about}} templates. Ultimately, yes, readers who land on a primary-topic page must be given a way to navigate to the non-primary topic or topics, if any. That might be a hatnote to a disambiguation page, or a hatnote to a specific page (or two, or even three). The guideline definitely should not state anything like "for very rare usages, give the reader seeking them no way to get there from the primary topic". If there's a topic that you feel should not be findable in the encyclopedia, use WP:AFD. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:58, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
JHunterJ is certainly right when the article linked in the hatnote has a non-trivial mention of the subtopic. However, as List of names for cannabis#Controversial strain names says little more than that Girl Scout Cookies exist, there may be a case for removing this hatnote per WP:TRHAT. Certes (talk) 13:23, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
The cannabis strain is cited in secondary sources, so isn't WP:TRHAT trivial usage or dictionary definition of term. (And it's a separate topic, not a subtopic. The cannabis strain is not a type of cookie.)-- JHunterJ (talk) 13:41, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I suppose if one wanted to test it, would Girl Scout Cookies (cannabis strain) survive an RfD? I think it would. (edit: I was expecting to find that a red link.) -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:56, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Could also create a full disambiguation page with the cannabis strain and the songs by Ted Nugent from Love Grenade and by Blaze Foley. FWIW, the cannabis strain may have some minor degree of notoriety (While Randall Roberts of the Los Angeles Times said it sounded "like she vaped a gram of Girl Scout Cookies before her vocal take". quoted in High by the Beach -- although it's not completely clear if he meant the cookies in an comically metaphorical sense or the cannabis strain. olderwiser 14:15, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Excellent idea!  Done -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:25, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion regarding the Genderqueer article[edit]

Hi, all. I left a message at Wikipedia talk:Article titles about moving this article: Talk:Genderqueer#Requested move 1 May 2019. But, given the disambiguation aspect of the discussion, it has occurred to me that leaving a note about the move discussion here might also be beneficial. One issue of discussion is WP:NOUN. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 19:37, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

shipindex vs dab?[edit]

I recently cleaned up USS Holly to match MOS:DAB style. My edit was reverted by User:Llammakey, saying that it's a list, not a dab page. It sure looks like a dab page to me. The initial creation of the page back in 2008 even says, disambiguation of US ships named "Holly". I have no problem with Llammakey's revert (WP:BRD and all that), I'm just trying to understand what's the accepted best practice here. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:19, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Llammakey said "SI pages are NOT dab pages, they are list pages". SI means Wikipedia:Set index articles. They are indeed lists and not disambiguation pages. For this example, see also Wikipedia:WikiProject Ships/Guidelines#Index pages which is linked on "list of ships" at the bottom of USS Holly. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:04, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
WP:SHIPS have a WP:CONSENSUS guideline that lists of ships are WP:SIA pages not WP:DAB pages. This works well most of the time: navies don't reuse a name until an earlier ship has been removed from the navy list.
It works less well when there are two ships with the identical name fighting on opposite sides in the same battle, e.g. HMS Swiftsure (1787) and HMS Swiftsure (1804) at the Battle of Trafalgar.
In my experience, SIAs inevitably collect bad links-in, but who am I to argue? Narky Blert (talk) 19:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Feedback sought for proposed article-to-DBA/SIA conversion at Allopathic medicine[edit]

Your feedback would be appreciated at Talk:Allopathic medicine#Make this page a disambiguation page. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 06:32, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Apologize for the ping if it's unwanted, but we could still use opinions at this discussion. Pinging top ten editors at WT:D: @JHunterJ, Born2cycle, Bkonrad, BD2412, SmokeyJoe, Diego Moya, Andrewa, PamD, Kotniski, and SMcCandlish: Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:52, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

An RM relying on PRIMARYTOPIC[edit]

This RM could use some input from primary topic experts:

--В²C 23:25, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Ayman Joumaa[edit]

Ayman Joumaa and Ayman Joumaa (disambiguation) need to be rearranged. Currently Ayman Joumaa (disambiguation) is the DAB page and Ayman Joumaa redirects to Ayman Zakaria Joumaa. I would like to put the DAB page at Ayman Joumaa and redirect Ayman Joumaa (disambiguation) to that page. Can I simply over-write the current contents or do I need to go through a series of moves? Leschnei (talk) 13:02, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Edited to ping Bachounda who has been editing these pages. Leschnei (talk) 13:08, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
You would need the series of moves. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:10, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Actually, just the one move, of the disambiguation page to the base name (overwriting the redirect). -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:12, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
I agree with Leschnei and thaks for pinging me, indeed the two people are known in Lebanon, I looked in politics but I could not find, I decided to redirect Ayman Joumaa to Ayman Zakaria Joumaa. --Bachounda (talk) 14:00, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
I've only carried out moves to new names. How does it work when the name being moved to already exists? Leschnei (talk) 15:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
A technical request at WP:RM/TR -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:18, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll make the request Leschnei (talk) 15:26, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

This is apparently a contested move since the redirect was already in existence. The request has been moved to Talk:Ayman Joumaa (disambiguation) for discussion, if you'd care to weigh in. Leschnei (talk) 12:48, 23 May 2019 (UTC)