Wikipedia talk:Featured picture candidates

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FPCs needing feedback
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Kamal Bahamdan, CEO of Safanad.jpg Kamal Bahamdan


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Proposal[edit]

I light of the fact that this FPC didn't even get a single user comment I'd like to propose that in such cases the FPC in question be either reintroduce to the lineup from the top of the page with a time stamp to reflect the new date of closure or moved to the section where more input is required to find consensus. I think it unfair that an FPC should fail do the lack of participation from anyone other than the nominator, and would like FPCs in such case to get at least on person's comment and/ or iVote before being close to help gauge where other people stand on the matter of the nomination. Would anyone here support such a proposal? (and for that matter has this even been proposed before?) TomStar81 (Talk) 06:30, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

  • Or perhaps it meant that nobody felt it worthy of support, yet didn't feel strongly enough to oppose. Personally, the resolution was a deal breaker for me. 320 × 240 pixels isn't anything to write home about. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:09, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
    • But hearing that at least provides some measure by which it is possible to gauge whether or not the image had a chance or not. See in light of that observation from you I would be of the mind not to renominate this clip since there is now officially a flaw in resolution size. But since I know that now, I am aware that a renomination is likely not worth the time or effort at this moment. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:56, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
      • It would be worth hunting down a higher resolution version. We've got a whole gigabyte to play with on Commons, so we could get full HD if something was available.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 11:48, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
        • That helps my example, but it still leaves others who have had the same experience of nominating an image or flick watch as there nomination sails through without any input. Even if you're not going to support or oppose its not that hard to type a few words on the subject matter, and having at least that would be nice to help editors and nominators gauge where the image stands. Personally, I'd be of the mind to do what they do at afd when this happens and just relist the media at the top until they get some input, but thats me, and I'm out of my league and my mind here. TomStar81 (Talk) 12:09, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
          • Even AFD has limits; a decision has to be made in three weeks at most. It's a bad point of comparison, too, as the goal is to see whether or not an article can stay, not whether or not it is really, really, good. No featured content processes feature such an "automatic rotation". The nominator has to take the initiative to renominate. Heck, at FAC and FLC, there's a two week delay, unless a coordinator says otherwise. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 13:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Compare also things like the Rigoletto image of recent: 4 supports, no opposes, very near passing, but nominated at a bad time. Such things happen sometimes. =/ Asking for feedback usually is better if you're not sure why something didn't pass. Adam Cuerden (talk) 21:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
@Adam Cuerden: But in the case of the Rigoletto image there was some input, and while the image didn't pass it was not for lack of participation, it was for lack on the currently accepted definition of consensus required for passing. What I am looking at are the specific cases in which images like the tear down this wall clip and the Jcpag2012 (talk · contribs) nominated Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Dione (moon) which had exactly zero input across all 10 days of the nomination period. In these very specific cases I feel that closing the nomination that has absolutely no input is a bad idea, hence the suggestion that they be moved to the more input required section or re-listed from the top rather than being closed as no consensus. Personally I favor the former since any kind of comment from someone other than the nominator would qualify as input, which would allow the images to be closed with some feedback to help the nominator better plan his or her next move. TomStar81 (Talk) 16:48, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Image size[edit]

Hi everyone; thanks to an appearance at DYK, I've recently come across Commons user BigHead, who is professional photographer Augustas Didžgalvis. His portraits are fantastic (though he prefers a little less head room than is typically preferred at FPC), and cover some underrepresented topics. However, he uploads his portraits at a size of 1500 by 1000, so they're a little under our size requirements. I assume part of the motivation for this is that it isn't clear why much bigger than that would be helpful for a portrait, unless we're looking to count hairs missed while shaving or pores on the nose. I suppose what I'm asking is whether we feel that these images would be suitable to nominate here; I've included a few highlights below. Josh Milburn (talk) 09:22, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

  • I do like his picture of Irina Davydova, but honestly I can't see why we can't ask for 1500px. 2250 * 1500px is only 3.4 megapixels, a mere fraction of what's possible with modern cameras. For high quality print uses, the files are slightly on the small size. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:02, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
  • I agree that we shouldn't compromise on the minimum size. The images above don't even fill an HD TV screen. They're good portraits, but what is the point of FP if it doesn't push for excellence. We're a Free Content project, so part of judging our best free images is also whether they are restricted in size to diminish their value. -- Colin°Talk 16:56, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposed clarification to delist closure[edit]

  • If the image to be delisted is not used in any articles by the time of closure, it must be delisted. If it is added to articles during the nomination, at least one week's stability is required for the nomination to be closed as "Kept". The nomination may be suspended if a week hasn't yet passed to give the rescue a chance.

This is a fundamental failure to be a featured picture that has to be sufficient grounds to delist, and we should write that into the rules. Adam Cuerden (talk) 14:31, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

  • I support this proposal (or something like it)- I agree that there is a fundamental flaw in unused images being kept. Josh Milburn (talk) 14:54, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Tweaked the last clause for clarity, shouldn't be any real change to meaning. Adam Cuerden (talk) 19:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Question about camera quality[edit]

I take some pretty decent pictures, but I just use a mid-priced digital camera. Are the pictures that get FP all from professional cameras, or can they also be from ones that cost under $300? RO(talk) 22:27, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492:@Diliff:@Godot13:@Jkadavoor: Ping some users. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:21, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
My 39 fps in Commons are with a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ28. The new fp here is with a Sony Alpha 33. Hope it explains. Jee 13:51, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
  • I can only say that we have fairly strict image quality requirements. It isn't that cheaper cameras are completely incapable of meeting these standards, but it is difficult and a $300 camera is going to struggle. That being said, a spectacular photo from an artistic or encyclopaedic value point of view might be enough to gain support. Can you give some examples? Perhaps we could suggest whether they have a chance or not. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 13:58, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
  • That example is a tough one. It's compositionally quite nice, and I assume has good EV. But the common problem that I see with these point and shoot style cameras is that there's often very little detail in the texture. The megapixels are there, but there's not actually much true resolution in them. I believe they use strong edge enhancement to give the illusion of sharpness, which works well for things like the brickwork, but fails to render finer detail like the grass or trees well. I know I'm being a bit picky and possibly elitist, but to really get good image quality and sharpness from that image, you need to downsample it to almost 50%, by which stage it falls below our minimum resolution requirements. The same is often true of DSLR photos too, particularly when paired with cheap lenses, but DSLRs often have more megapixels to work with to begin with. Just my thoughts. Anyway, I'm not saying I'd consider that image a flat-out oppose. I'd just find it hard to outright support too. Landscape images like this are fundamentally not hard to take and there's enough light that you should be able to extract the most out of any camera, so there's little mitigation for difficulty or capturing a once-in-a-lifetime moment. ;-) Just my thoughts anyway. I don't claim to speak for everyone. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 16:20, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
  • And many compact camera can shoot in raw, nowadays. Better processing may improve the results. Anyway an entry level DSLR like Canon EOS 1200D can produce fps; I think. (The quality of some bird photos by User:Baresi franco are exceptional. His camera is not that much cheap; but not as expensive as the mainstreams.) Jee 17:18, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
  • @Diliff: One of the issues I found was the considerable distortion towards the edges. That was my main issue for opposing the nomination. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:05, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Rationalobserver I think you would struggle to create an FP with a compact camera, but you certainly don't need professional equipment. Until last year, I had an entry-level consumer DSLR bought in 2010 and have taken many featured pictures with it. The biggest factors on quality are the size of the image sensor (bigger is better) and the cost of the lenses. If you want a compact camera, have a look at something like the Sony Cybershot DSC-RX100, which you might find at around $400 for the original version (there are newer more expensive versions of that camera). That fits a relatively large 1" sensor into a pocketable camera body. Alternatively, look at getting one of last year's (or the year before last) DSLRs. An entry-level Nikon or Canon DSLR with kit lens would also be about $400 if you avoid looking at the very latest models. And to be honest, the latest Nikon/Canon DSLRs aren't very different from those made a couple of years ago. If you can't spend more than $300 then it is probably best to look for a second hand DSLR. But beware the photography can get expensive as a hobby and before you know it, you'll have bought extra software for your PC and more lenses, a bag, tripod, flash, etc, etc. Photography is also more than just about the equipment, and FP demands more than just "decent" images -- they are supposed to be among the finest. -- Colin°Talk 17:17, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanations everyone. I won't bother noming any more images at FP until I get a much better camera. RO(talk) 17:37, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Should FPs be removed from the main page?[edit]

Wikipedia:2015 main page redesign proposal/draft/Guy Macon proposes that to be the case. It's one of those stealth proposals - not notified anyone affected by it, just going around and trying to give the illusion of some support. Adam Cuerden (talk) 00:16, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

  • I have absolutely no expectation for that proposal to pass. It looks like something you'd see in 1990. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:59, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Somehow I got myself involved in a debate there. Oh well, I think you're right. There certainly isn't much support for it yet. I think they're entirely missing the point though. The premise of needing to deliver a page with a tiny footprint is based on the blog of a Youtube software engineer written three years ago about a story that took place six years ago. Internet connectivity in the developing world has improved considerably in that time, I'm sure, and they will continue to improve in the future. Also, Wikipedia isn't a search engine. Yes, it has search functionality but it primarily hosts content. If people really want to find an article on a specific topic, they'll most likely use Google and click the article link directly from there. And if they want a minimalist Wikipedia 'search page', there's http://www.wikipedia.org. And if they're from a developing country on a low bandwidth connection, they're most likely accessing Wikipedia on a mobile device. The mobile version of the English Wikipedia main page is already very minimalist. There's nothing in our current set up that stops people from accessing a minimalist search page if they want to do so. It's a storm in a teacup. Ðiliff «» (Talk) 11:53, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
Not to mention the footprint of the Wikipedia Main Page is way under the footprint being discussed as the size to get under in that blog. An ancient 2400 baud modem would take less than 20 seconds to download our mainpage; anything 90s or later should get it in a second or two. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:00, 20 July 2015 (UTC)