Wikipedia talk:Non-free content

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Discussion at File talk:Charmayne James and Scamper.jpg[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at File talk:Charmayne James and Scamper.jpg. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:02, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

British Admiralty Board and Navy Board Flags[edit]

The images that were originally uploaded by User talk:Wally Wiglet as the authors own work bare no resemblance whatsoever to the source images http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-lha.html from which their design concept was based on see my comments here explaining the differences File talk:Flag of the Admiralty Board.svg and here File talk:Flag of the Navy Board.svg he released them originally under Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain Dedication which was correct and true and had any body actually bothered to check both the CRW Flag's versions against the authors own designed versions using a reliable editing program like photoshop you can very clearly see they are not the same images so what was freely given for free public use that can be copied and even altered and for commercial and non commercial use has been assigned as an Non Free Image this needs looking at again and IMO reversing.--Navops47 (talk) 07:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

File:Flag of the Navy Board.svg is licensed as non-free content which means it is subject to WP:NFCCP for each use. If you feel this file has been licensed incorrectly you can (1) change the licensing as needed (but be sure this is the case) (2) start a discussion about it at WP:FFD or ask at WP:MCQ to see what others think. FWIW, the file does look simple enough perhaps for {{PD-ineligible-USonly}}, but the UK has a fairly low TOO so I am not sure if a free license is so obvious; it also possible that they might be considered to be a derivative work eligible for copyright protection even if the original work is in the public domain. Graeme Bartlett is the person who converted the files to {{non-free logo}} so perhaps he will be able to clarify why.
Another option would be to provide the required separate specifc non-free use rationale that is required for the file by WP:NFCC#10c for the article you want to use the file. This will stop the file from possibly being deleted/removed and allow time to sort out its licensing. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:37, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for your helpful feedback I think I will wait to see if Graeme Bartlett responds I have left him a message earlier today the technical side of changing things is a bit of minefield for me I have no idea how you change licences but I am 100% sure these images are different from CRWflags.--Navops47 (talk) 12:05, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Changing a copyright license is technically just changing from one template to another, but personally I think you need to be pretty sure before you do something like that to avoid any possible issues down the road. Even it cases where I think such a change is quite obvious, I often ask for another opinion at WP:MCQ or c:COM:VP/C just to make sure I'm not missing something. Graeme Bartlett is a pretty experienced editor and it looks like he converted the licensing of the files to non-free because somebody tagged them as a copyvio. Perhaps he felt that was a better alternative than deleting the image. Administrators who have experience dealing with file related things will often convert licensing one way or another when a file has been tagged for speedy deletion to keep the file when they feel its appropriate to do so. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:31, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
The reason I added a FUR was that they would have been deleted as a copyright infringement otherwise. As a flag or logo they could be used in an article on the topic. But perhaps the images are not genuine, and probably http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-lha.html images are not genuine either. Anyway if UK has a low threshold for copyright, then these slight variations by Wally Wiglet may count as a new copyright rather than just a derivative. Since I don't really know the original, I cannot give an opinion about whether it is a derivative of another copyright work. I would recommend using keep-local if the CC0 was claimed to stop it going to commons. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for reply Graham I have just come across an official source here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20081113175004/http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3649 that shows the actual flags for both boards what is interesting here is they don't even resemble CRW's versions which have been based upon them I assume by the notes on their site and which wally wiglet has based his versions upon the colour is very different take a look. You can also get a closer look at them individually here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20081113202031/http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/conMediaFile.5290 and here: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20081113202201/http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/conMediaFile.5286 .--Navops47 (talk) 12:54, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
As theses images are on a government owned website the licencing for its content is here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/webarchive/ it says OGL All content is available under the Open Government Licence v3.0, except where otherwise stated.--Navops47 (talk) 12:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I think you need to be careful with the exemptions listed here, in particular bullet points 3 to 5, since these files might be considered to be one of them. This is also mentioned in c:Template:OGL3. There is also may be another issue here since it states that the website's content may be used on the condition that it is "reproduced accurately and not used in a misleading context". This last bit might be just enough of a restriction to prevent the files from being treated as public domain. Note there is {{Non-free Crown copyright}} which is a non-free license and also mentions the "misleading context" bit. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:26, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I will note that if the original flags are copyright by the UK (which I would suspect) so would be non-free here to start, SVG replacements, no matter how accurate, are not allowed. --MASEM (t) 12:58, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I have left a message on another administrator's page User talk: Diannaa who deals with copyrights and is aware of the UK OGL Open licencing she knows her stuff as we have communicated in the past regarding Royal Navy articles so will wait for them to comment thanks.--Navops47 (talk) 13:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
The source web page http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20081113175004/http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3649 does not show an OGL license but a notice at the bottom that reads "© Crown Copyright 2008. All rights ..." I can't see the rest as the bottom is cut off (on the ChromeBook I can't see any of it, so this may not be visible on your set-up either. It's readily available in this archived version from the Wayback Machine). Clicking on the "terms and conditions" link takes us to this page, which also does not mention an OGL license or any compatible license. You can't extrapolate that the copyright status of www.nationalarchives.gov.uk applies to a web page that has a different copyright notice at the bottom of the page. Regardless, in my opinion the copyright status of each flag will depend on its creation date and the usual copyright rules for government works in the UK. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 14:04, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Many thanks I have also emailed the national archives earlier today to ask them to explain this http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/legal/crown-copyright-website.htm in relation to OGL on the main site and their archived page I linked will wait for a reply, in regards to the other previous images uploaded by User talk:Wally Wiglet what do we do with them.--Navops47 (talk) 16:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)