Wikipedia talk:Five pillars

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Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
Is this page a policy or guideline, or the source for all policies and guidelines?
No. It is a non-binding description of some of the fundamental principles, begun by User:Neutrality in 2005 as a simple introduction for new users. For comparison, WP:NPOV, WP:NOT and WP:IAR were first written down on Wikipedia in 2001, and WP:NOR and WP:V were written in 2003.
What was this page originally based on?
It was an expansion of WP:Trifecta.
Does the title refer to the Five Pillars of Islam?
No. It also has nothing to do with the Five Precepts of Buddhism or the Five Pillars puzzle.
Even though it has nothing to do with the Five Pillars of Islam, won't Muslim people be offended anyway?
Muslim editors commenting here have confirmed that there is nothing offensive in this. The Arabic Wikipedia uses exactly the same words to title their version of this essay. The words "five pillars" are not inherently sacred; the same words might be used by Muslims in everyday speech, such as to describe architectural elements in a building.
Does this page list every single important principle?
No. It does not discuss the importance of using common sense, not charging money to readers, cooperating with Wikipedias in other languages, the desirability of making pages accessible to people with disabilities or limited internet access, or any number of other principles that the community has identified as important over the years.
Where can I find similar pages?
See Wikipedia:Principles.
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Why are you copying Islam[edit]

Seriously, you didn't just think of that yourself, you copied it from the Quran. Why though? — Preceding unsigned comment added by XS2003 (talkcontribs) 15:03, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Please add new discussions at the bottom of a talk page, not the top. If you look there you will see someone else had the same misapprehension. Dmcq (talk) 16:20, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

What's a typewriter?[edit]

I asked a question about the phrasing of the first pillar in the Village Pump. Please reply there. Will eventually be archived in approximately Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 130. – b_jonas 20:57, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

😯 Wethepeople2017 (talk) 21:43, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Is it Oxford paid actor to talk to His Queen the romantic view or the beauty of remaining anonimus to the test of time. Wethepeople2017 (talk) 21:50, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Is just ink and paper ...not a such of thing called typewriter 😀 Wethepeople2017 (talk) 21:51, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

God bless Unicorn! Wethepeople2017 (talk) 21:54, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

New icons proposal[edit]

Hi! I see some problems with the actual icons:

  • They don't illustrate the content of each pillar, which is a missed opportunity. (It also took me some time to realise what the icons actually represent, it's not that clear).
  • The use of color is problematic: green is normally attributed to something good, red to something to be avoided. To put them in chromatic order (blue/green-yellow-red) makes things even more misleading. The first impression might be that of a list 'from good to bad' (that was actually my first impression).

As a solution to these two problems I propose to use icons that illustrate each pillar in black and white. You can see how it would look in Wikipedia talk:Five pillars/icons proposal. The icons used are from The Noun Project, where there are thousands of icons in the same style to choose from (I also changed a bit the code to make the layout look nicer). Would anyone object? Greetings! Sgomag (talk) 15:25, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the proposal but people are sure to object for a variety of reasons. For example, some editors are used to the fact that Wikipedia:Five pillars#Green identifies the green pillar. Also, the current icons, while being meaningless, support the pillars theme of the page. The icons in the proposal are fine, but they do not add anything to the page—a fancy W is no more helpful than a blue pillar. Finally, since the page is short, having five completely unrelated icons is somewhat jarring. Johnuniq (talk) 23:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind a change. The first icon doesn't really show the subject, it just says it is about Wikipedia. Perhaps a finger over a book showing a person looking something up would be better. I'm not sure a handshake shows civility, we want civility even when people disagree. Perhaps it was to show consensus? I haven't the foggiest what the icon for pillar 5 is in aid of. What we want to express is that the rules may be broken if that is best for the encyclopaedia content. Dmcq (talk) 23:51, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks for your comments and sorry for the late reply. I've taken your objections into consideration and changed the proposal. You can see it in Wikipedia talk:Five pillars/icons proposal. I hope you'll find it an improvement.
  • You are right the "green pillar" has to be green so I've kept the colors but tamed them a bit in order to avoid the problem with the color code (e.g. red=prohibition). Also, the way the color is applied –as a circle– helps uniformize the icons and avoid the 'jarring' effect.
  • I've changed or simplified the icons. The first icon is now a depiction of an online enciclopedia. The third pillar has become a jigzaw piece to represent content as it's a theme in the logo of Wikipedia (an alternative could be the logo of Creative Commons but in my opinion that'd be duller). The fourth icon speaks for itself and the last icon is a lightbulb to represent innovation. They can always be changed later for better ones, of course. (The actual icons in the page are supposed to represent pillars but many people mistake them with werid academic caps. A better option to reinforce the "pillar theme" would be the classical ionic capitel with its recognizable volutes, but I'd still find it a missed opportunity).
  • I've tweaked the layout to make each principle stand out and make it look more structured. This "icon-title-text" layout is what many professional webpages use.
Keep in mind that newcomers are the principal target of this page and for them it is a lot of new information. Both the icons and the new layout present it in a clearer and more attractive way, which always helps. I hope you consider this a move in the right direction. Atón (talk) 12:47, 21 January 2017 (UTC) (PD: I'm Sgomag but I've recently changed my name to Atón).
The proposal is good but it may not be worth doing. Having five different icons in such a short page makes it too similar to the fluffy, content-free websites that many Wikipedians don't like. You can try it and see what happens because there may not be much feedback until that happens. The subheadings are helpful. Johnuniq (talk) 01:41, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Done, let's see what happens. By the way, as a finishing touch I've removed the links from the subheadings and integrated them in the body of text. That way the pillars won't get confused with the one policy they link, and it looks neater to me. Atón (talk) 11:01, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Okay I'm a stick in the mud but I've got over most of the jarring feeling and I think the new icons are fine. Thanks. Dmcq (talk) 15:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
New icons not viewable through mobile and app view. Anyone looking it to this.--Moxy (talk) 16:56, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
I've never used a mobile with Wikipedia, but on sites I run I mark some pictures so they don't show up on mobiles to reduce clutter. I can't see any markup like that in the source here though. I just tried it with a mobile and got just the first icon on one browser and none with the other. It is an old an and crappy mobile I use though on the basis of if I can show things reasonably on that it'll be okay on later things :) Dmcq (talk) 17:28, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

@Atón: I just checked this page for a first time in a while, and the new layout looks great! I'd say it's a much needed update :)—Neil P. Quinn (talk) 12:16, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Reliable Sources[edit]

As I was systematically going through the five pillars, I was shocked to find that the wikilink (in pillar 2) for

"citing reliable, authoritative sources"

goes to WP:CS rather than WP:RS. This peculiar result is from the evolution of the first original draft that said,

"Write from a neutral, accurate standpoint. Citing sources greatly aids in this..."

where WP:CS made sense, which quickly became

 "Citing authoritative sources greatly aids in this...".    

I propose we change "citing reliable, authoritative sources" to look like this:

"citing reliable, authoritative sources"

where "citing" wikilinks to WP:CS and "reliable, authoritative sources" wikilinks to WP:RS.

Can I make that change? --David Tornheim (talk) 10:50, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Seeing no objection, I went ahead and made the change here. --David Tornheim (talk) 23:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Looks more like the 5 pillars of Islam[edit]

This page, the five pillars of Wikipedia, might look like someone has copied the 5 pillars of Islam. I wonder why.Uchoseitutakeit (talk) 15:03, 9 March 2017 (UTC) Uchoseitutakeit (talk) 15:03, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

See the third question in the frequently asked questions at the top of this page. And then the fourth question. Dmcq (talk) 22:56, 9 March 2017 (UTC)