Wikipedia talk:Guide to requests for adminship

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Welcome to the discussion

Process is a joke[edit]

The process to become a admin is a joke. According to this you'lld have to have no life to become a admin! Jack Quinn UK (talk) 15:21, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

No joy? If there is any give us a bell asap. Jack Quinn UK (talk) 18:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I rmr befor when imade a first account as bowserQ but now i got overthrown but now i want a other chance cause i had the ownership and thought it would be fun but really i just need a other chance so plz take me how i am —Preceding unsigned comment added by BowserQs (talkcontribs) 20:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Jack Quinn, The process to become a admin can be intense, gruelling, humiliating, but I don't think it's a joke.
Bowser, if you really want a other chance to become a admin I think you'll probably need a few more edits, and better typing.   pablohablo. 21:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism[edit]

I got frequent mistaken vandalism warnings as a newcomer. Does that mean I can never be an administrator? Us441(talk)(contribs) 12:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

No it doesn't. I haven't looked at everything on your talkpage, but perfection is not required, and the odd mistake merely proves you are human. A number of mistakes might imply either being overhasty or misunderstanding some of our policies - either is worth working on and resolving. At RFA few editors go back more than three months or a couple of thousand edits looking for excessive goodfaith mistakes (genuine vandalism takes much longer to forgive). The key thing now is to learn from any mistakes you make and if necessary rectify them - so if for example you warned someone for vandalism when they were blanking an unsourced controversial statement, go back and replace any incorrect warnings you dished out with apologies. The only time when it would be relevant to mention old goodfaith mistakes is if you change activity areas.For example if your most recent UAA reports were four months old and included some howlers. In that case I would advise returning to an area, rereading the policies, working out were you went wrong, and when you are confident that you can do things better demonstrate that with some accurate activity. ϢereSpielChequers 13:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Debate?[edit]

Currently, there is an open-ended debate regarding whether a nomination that is going poorly should be removed from WP:RFA. There is no standard by which such nominations are removed, nor any consensus on whether they should be removed.

Is there? The RfA page clearly says that any user in good standing can use their own discretion to close an RfA that has no chance of succeeding. Is this a contradiction or am I simply interpreting this wrong? Swarm X 11:24, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Blocks[edit]

Currently, the page says under what people hope to see:

A clean block log as evidence of good editing behavior (if you have any blocks from more than twelve months ago, people will expect an explanation as to how your editing has changed to make this unlikely to happen again).

Under what people hope NOT to see, it says:

Blocks: If you've been blocked, voters will want to know why and what you've learned from this, especially if you've been blocked in recent months.

The first quote seems counterintuitive and appears to contradict the second. The older the block the less important it is, and a longer blockless edit history after an old block tends to mitigate any negative impact of the old block.

Interestingly, both pieces of information were added by the same user ([1]; [2]).

I suggest changing the first sentence to:

A clean block log as evidence of good editing behavior (if you have any blocks in recent months, people will expect an explanation as to how your editing has changed to make this unlikely to happen again).

--Bbb23 (talk) 15:12, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't see that it is counter-intuitive or that the proposed change would be an improvement. But then I wrote that bit of the current wording, so I would say that wouldn't I. My experience of RFA is that people can accept a block log as effectively clean if there are no blocks in the last 12 months, especially if you can show you've learned from the earlier blocks. If you have recent blocks then they will want a very good reason not to oppose over it. So any reference to recent blocks definitely belongs in the "what people hope NOT to see" bit. The two sentences don't contradict each other but they are different. What people want to see is the ideal candidate, what people do not want includes some examples of more borderline candidates, and candidates do not need to be perfect to pass RFA. ϢereSpielChequers 08:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Your response is exactly what I think we want to convey, but it doesn't tally with the first sentence in the guide, which is the only thing I propose changing. And, to be more specific, I just want to change the parenthetical. As it is currently, we are saying in the parenthetical to the first sentence that people want an explanation for blocks that are older than a year. Those aren't recent blocks, so why do we want that?--Bbb23 (talk) 13:05, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
They aren't recent blocks, so provided the candidate gives some assurance that they've learned from the experience or changed their behaviour then most people will not be fussed - the default would be to accept a plausible response. Though a candidate who says "I only lose my temper like that maybe once every 18 months" will not get through RFA. If a candidate does have recent blocks then they need to give a very good reason as to why one should disregard those blocks. The problem with your proposed wording is that it implies that voters are inclined to support candidates with recent blocks provided there is an explanation. The reality is the opposite, the RFA crowd are unlikely to support a candidate who has been blocked in the last 12 months, and would take serious persuasion and some reassurances to make an exception. That isn't to say that a recent block is an automatic fail, but it is very much not what people like to see when reviewing RFA candidates. ϢereSpielChequers 13:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Now we're back to the contradiction. On the one hand, we're saying we are more concerned about recent blocks, but, on the other hand, we are saying we care about older blocks. If we care about any blocks, recent or not, then we need to say we care about all blocks but more recent blocks are more problematic. Perhaps you think that's what it says, but to me it's jarring. Hopefully, others will comment here so we'll have more interpretations than just yours (the author's) and mine (just one reader's).--Bbb23 (talk) 13:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Its not a contradiction, People like to see a clean blocklog and they certainly expect RFA candidates to have a recently clean blocklog. So really we are folding three conditions into two. Recent blocks are a bad sign at an RFA, a clean blocklog is the ideal thing to have at an RFA and if you've been blocked it is best to wait 12 months before running an RFA, either that or be a really strong candidate with a very good tale to tell as to how we can be sure we are unlikely to need to block you again. Remember the principal purpose of this guide is to give potential RFA candidates an idea as to whether they are ready to run, so we don't want either to give the impression that candidates with recent blocks have much chance of passing RFA, or of making people think that only candidates with clean blocklogs can succeed. ϢereSpielChequers 21:11, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I think we're in agreement on the concepts, just not how they should be communicated, so here is another possible wording of the sentence in the section what people hope to see:

A clean block log as evidence of good editing behavior (if you have any blocks, people will expect an explanation as to how your editing has changed to make this unlikely to happen again, especially if you were blocked in the last year).

--Bbb23 (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

That wording would imply that recent blocks were among the things that RFA !Voters hope to see. But they really aren't. People like to see a clean block log, or at least one that has been clean for a year. ϢereSpielChequers 09:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
I think we are at an impasse. I still think we agree on the concepts, but there appears to be a fundamental interpretation issue as to what the language in the current guide means and what my proposed language would mean. I'll try to figure out the best way to get more editors to contribute to this discussion as it hasn't attracted any attention.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:33, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Alternatively why not look through some RFAs and see if you can find recent examples where people have passed despite having blocks in the preceding twelve months? My experience is that they are rare as hens' teeth, I'm not counting the one where the blocking admin unblocked within minutes with an unblock reason of "whoops very sorry" - everyone treated that as a clean blocklog. If you can demonstrate that the RFA !voters are OK with candidates who have recent blocks then maybe your wording is correct and my experience of RFA is somehow distorted. ϢereSpielChequers 20:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
What you suggest would only make sense if we disagreed conceptually on what !voters expect, but we don't. We disagree on how those expectations are being communicated in the guide, or, alternatively, we disagree on the interpretation of the current language. I happily accept your experience that recent blocks are unacceptable except maybe in rare circumstances. BTW, at the suggestion of another admin (whose opinion on where to obtain more comments I solicited), I posted at WP:VPP here. Thus far, zip - it's still just you and me. On the bright side, if I have to be stuck in the same room with someone with whom I disagree, at least I'm fortunate that the other person who has the temerity to disagree with me is unfailingly nice. Face-smile.svg --Bbb23 (talk) 20:21, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, and likewise. My understanding of our area of disagreement is that you want to change the wording under what people hope to see to include "recent blocks provided there is a good explanation". My view is that RFA !voters don't want to see recent blocks. If they do see recent blocks they want a very good reason to persuade them to support anyway. So in my view recent blocks don't go in the section for things that RFA !voters hope to see, instead they are worth a mention in the section what people hope NOT to see, along with an explanation as to how to allay people's concerns if you do have a recent block. ϢereSpielChequers 20:43, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Our only source of disagreement is in the section of what people hope to see. I just don't think it's clear enough, particularly in light of the language in the section of what people hope not to see; in other words, because the sentences are two sides of the same coin, they will be looked at together. I'll try yet another wording for you:

A clean block log as evidence of good editing behavior (even if you have blocks from more than twelve months ago, people will expect an explanation as to how your editing has changed to make this unlikely to happen again).

One word added, one word removed from the current wording.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:20, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

"even if you have" implies that having old blocks is less problematic than a clean blocklog. I can understand saying that in the context of what not people don't look for "voters don't like to see candidates who have recent blocks, even if you have blocks from more than twelve months ago, people will still expect an explanation as to how your editing has changed to make this unlikely to happen again", but this wording doesn't work for me. ϢereSpielChequers 04:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm commenting per the request at VP. My experience with RfA is minimal (I skim it occasionally, vote every now and then, and I've read through our policies on the matter), so feel free to take my opinion with whatever weight it deserves. It seems that the current wording is sufficiently clear to me. The only problem I see personally is that it's sort of clunky, and therefore maybe doesn't get the idea across as clearly as we would like. I can also understand WSC's objection regarding recent blocks in "What RfA contributors look for". Bbb23's most recent proposal, it seems to me, addresses that issue, and I'd be okay with that wording too. All these proposals still seem unduly long, but I can't think of any simpler solution; I'll try mulling it over in case we can't agree on this latest proposal. All the best,   — Jess· Δ 22:35, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The requirements for becoming an admin should be obvious, and plain common sense for any reasonably mature and experienced candidate. A recent spate of notnow/snow, however - and more on the way - seem to demonstrate that some users can't be bothered to read even the simplest of advice and policy pages, let alone this one and WP:Advice for RfA candidates. and regular voters' RfA criteria pages. Hence the wording and/or terminology will remain moot. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:15, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi Kudpung, Just because some candidates don't read this first doesn't mean that none do. My assumption is that most of the serious candidates will actually do a bit of preparation, and for those who have blocks it useful to be clear as to how RFA !voters treat them. ϢereSpielChequers 12:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Coming here from the VPP notice. I'd suggest the following wording for the "hope to see" section:
"A clean block log as evidence of good editing behavior. If you do have any blocks, it is expected you will explain how your editing has changed to make this unlikely to happen again."
That makes it clear that a clean block log is preferable, while those with blocks should make it clear how they've changed in order to be considered. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 13:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
That implies that people are OK with even recent blocks provided there is a good explanation. If we are going to keep the current structure then surely blocks belong in the section about what people don't want to see. Of course it might be best to go for a radical rewrite of those sections, and have one section for what people look for and say for each thing what is good, what is a snow fail and what might be acceptable. ϢereSpielChequers 10:33, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Administrator[edit]

Can a user apply for Administrator who was previously blocked for Wikipedia:Sock puppetry at the last attempt applying for Administrator.

I believe there should be rules for becoming an Administrator, or not eligible for becoming an Administrator. --Tahir Mahmood (talk) 08:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Under the current rules, anyone with a registered account can apply for adminship. There are no rules. The community is however usually pretty good at deciding who should become an admin. Sockpuppetry is a serious infringement of policy, but how the community would vote depends on the circumstances and how long ago it was. See: WP:Advice for RfA candidates. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:42, 22 January 2013 (UTC)