Wikipedia talk:Image use policy

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Template:Cleanup-gallery[edit]

I plan to add something like "use the template {{Cleanup-gallery}}" somewhere in Image gallery section. Any objections or comments? -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:04, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

On second thought, I think that would encourage tagging rather than fixing; added to the hatnote instead. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 03:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Blasphemy[edit]

Hello my name is Chavdar Likov. I am Bulgarian and I have been working on Wikipedia since its early creation. I find that the image uploading method is just a bureaucratic bunch of stupid methodology to confuse, discourage and deny free speech and free global Internet and general migration of Information; instead of using all Internet resources, we as users need, as aknowledged users and academic scholars are using and even writing in Wikipedia, Wikipedia is actually convoluting, limiting and discouraging users to put appropriate images and update Wikipedia to further level. I think that with working on WikiProject Rock Music, many bands and musical acts deserve good photos appropriate to their era and line-up at that stage. Wikipedia should open and free people from such limitations and convoluted way of presenting information. As a user with adequate education and a lot of experience, working here and observing general media circulation, I am saying it. It is not in any way undermine Wikipedia and its usage. With all due respect: The Mad Hatter (talk) 18:33, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Annotated image policy[edit]

Notified: WP:IM, WP:ILL, WP:PIC, MOS:IMAGE, TMP:AI4, WP:MCB, WP:GEN, WP:BIOL

Currently the only advice on image annotation seems to be Picture tutorial (WP:PIC) and a sentence in the manual of style (MOS:IMAGE). I am keen to more frequently use wikilinked image annotation (TMP:AI4) but thought it would be good to have some consensus on when/where it is appropriate/inappropriate. For example, the DNA article contains:

Which if any could appropriately have interactive wikilinked annotations? What are the general principles for when it is appropriate? When is it inappropriate? T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 02:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

I do not see any fundamental difference between placing text and associated wikilinks in an image vs. the image caption. Including wikilinks directly in the image is often clearer. The only disadvantage I see is that it may make it somewhat more complicated to port the image to other languages. I also do not see any fundamental difference between including Wikilinks in the main text vs. images. The same link guidelines apply to both. In particular, one should guard against overlinking. Boghog (talk) 06:11, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
I've really liked the ones I've seen you create. (And shouldn't it be easier to port to other languages than an image with its own text would be?) I'm just not sure I see why there's a need for a policy on the topic. Did someone object to one of them? Opabinia regalis (talk) 07:09, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Currently the wikilinked annotation template is only available in English and Welsh. To port the annotated image to another language, one also needs to port the template (and ideally also the template documentation). Furthermore maintenance of these templates in other languages is a headache. So as it currently stands, it is easier to port a text free graphic and associated caption vs. an wikilinked annotated image. Boghog (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
I've not yet had anyone object to the interactive images I've made so far. I mainly want to pre-empt any future problems. Agree that there's no sense in overlinking an image where the labels are not a key feature. I think a lot of summary images could do with wikilinked labels though. Good point that the templates don't necessarily work in other languages - I hadn't thought of that. I'll make sure that the non-interactive images are always available. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 08:07, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Images (specifically, the section titled "Making images yourself"), annotating text onto images is the preferred method for including text in images. Seppi333 (Insert ) 16:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Added: Personally, I think it's only worthwhile to use image annotation when there's image text that would be benefit from having a link to the associated article(s) in the image. In some cases, it may be useful to use both regular image text (for text which is less relevant to the purpose of the image) and annotated text (for article links/etc) in an image. Seppi333 (Insert ) 11:59, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Cropped vs. full images[edit]

Map of Lorem ipsum. Clicking on the image itself takes you to an uncropped version of the full map, while clicking on the little rectangle thingee here in the caption area takes you to the formal description page for the cropped img

I hope you'll excuse my injecting a somewhat related issue. If a large image will not display well at thumbnail size (or there's a small part of it that's most important for the purposes of the article) for some time I've been using link= to allow a crop of that image to be displayed in the thumbnail, but if the user clicks on the image he's taken to the original, full (uncropped) image. This way the reader gets the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, I've gotten static on this from that kind of editor who's hostile to anything they haven't see before -- see [1] (open the collapse box, and you can stop reading at the end of the third image). Does anyone see anything wrong with this technique? And if not, can we add something explicitly here, with an example? EEng (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

This sounds to be a good option. I would use it if I knew how. I do not think it needs to be used in all cases of cropping, but sometimes it will make for a better thumbnail, eg a zoom in of a face for a portrait, or a building in its context. It would also be good for WP:DYK, where the thumbnail is even smaller. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Your examples are exactly right. It's very easy -- here's the markup:
[[File:CavendishVermont 1869Map Beers AnnotatedPhineasGageLocations cropped.jpg
|link=File:CavendishVermont_1869Map_Beers_AnnotatedPhineasGageLocations.jpg
|thumb|upright=1.2
|Map of Lorem ipsum. Clicking on the image itself takes you to an uncropped version of the full map, while clicking on the little rectangle thingee here in the caption area takes you to the formal description page for the cropped img
]]
I'd really like to know whether people think this page should explicitly acknowledge this usage, so I don't have to argue with knowitalls about it in the future. EEng (talk) 23:35, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Just as long as there is a link to the image file page somewhere in the caption, on the image, or as the image background link, it will suffice, since this satisfies the requirement to indicate the image copyright/licensing info (i.e., attribution requirements). There is no policy or legal requirement to have an image background link to a copyright page. This info could even be listed in the article itself, although that would be a bit tacky for an encylcopedia IMO. I should probably note that attribution is typically provided on the same page as the image in most external sources (e.g., academic journals, textbooks, webpages, etc)... linking to another page for attribution as we do is actually somewhat atypical.

As an example of an alternative way to provide attribution, I recently coded a parameter to add an info icon (i.e., this thing: Desc-20.png) to the end of a caption to link to the associated commons page when a background link is not used (note that template:annotated image 4 requires that an image have a commons page). If using an image-insertion template, it is a good idea to indicate/link to the image commons page somewhere on that page or its documentation as well, as was done with the example below.

Seppi333 (Insert ) 16:33, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Wow, you certainly, um, know how to put an image together! We are obviously in violent agreement, but if you read the (beginning of) the discussion I linked, you'll see there are editors who simply cannot see beyond reasoning of the form "You must do X because I've only seen X, and that's the reason you must do X. QED." So, how might we acknowledge this technique on this page? I think it's one which could be used to excellent effect in a lot of articles, and it's very simple once someone points out the syntax. EEng (talk) 18:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Coverage of attribution requirements involving the link parameter, or no background link, is basically summarized at Wikipedia:Extended image syntax partly in the lead and mostly in Wikipedia:Extended image syntax#Link. The mere fact that the unlinked syntax is covered and the attribution requirements are explained there is an implicit endorsement of retargeting or removing background links altogether. I'd suggest just pointing people to that page for now, although the syntax page text involving links/attribution for non-PD images could just as well be added to this page. Seppi333 (Insert ) 11:37, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I don't really understand what you've said -- what does "there is an implicit endorsement of retargeting or removing background links altogether" mean? In 2009 someone added this [2] without any discussion that I can see:

Note that link cannot be used in conjunction with thumb as thumb is always meant to link to the larger version of the image.

I think what this was getting at is that when the reader clicks the image he shouldn't get an easter egg -- something unexpected; he expects to get "more" of the little image in the thumb. The most obvious sense of "more" is the same image, just bigger; but it seems to me completely reasonable to extend that to the possibility of a full image, of which the thumb was a crop -- as someone mentioned above, the thumb might have been a close-up of a face, with the full image giving a larger context. How about this:

If link is used with thumb, the linked image should be a full, uncropped image from which the thumbnail was cropped, or a full document from which thumbnail was a single page, or crop of a single page.

EEng (talk) 14:16, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

I was referring to the following lead text on that WP:EIS:

Link
Link the image to a different resource, or to nothing. Must not be set for non-public domain images unless attribution is provided in some other fashion.
— Wikipedia:Extended image syntax lead

It explicitly states that link removal should not be done unless another form of attribution is used. Since the page doesn't state that the background link shouldn't be removed in any circumstance and given that the page explains how to remove the background link in WP:EIS#Link, the page is implicitly supporting the removal of the background link as a display option, assuming attribution is provided by another means. If removing the background link wasn't an acceptable option in articles at all, the page would've stated that instead of mention the attribution condition in the above quote. Seppi333 (Insert ) 15:56, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
I see. You seem to be using the phrase link removal to mean setting link= to a nonempty value -- that's kind of confusing (or am I misunderstanding?). But there's still the problem that the text I quoted in my earlier post does say that, in the specific context of a thumbnail, link= shouldn't be used at all. Would you agree that text is inappropriate and should be modified along the lines of my suggestion above? EEng (talk) 16:33, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
Your interpretation of my meaning is correct.
As for thumbs, as long as attribution to the associated image(s) (i.e., cropped version, full version, etc) is provided via an alternate method OR on the target page of the link, it should be perfectly fine to link a thumb. {{Annotated image 4}} actually retargets the link to the file's wikimedia commons page for all images (note that this template produces a thumbnail frame/caption which looks virtually identical to normal thumbs) which are displayed using this template.
With regard to cropped/full images, it would probably be faster and simpler to use a template to crop an image instead of upload a cropped file; when cropping with a template, the default image link would be the full version of the image since no cropped image file is used. Both {{annotated image}} and {{annotated image 4}} (and I imagine several other image templates as well) are able to crop and/or expand the area around an image. Seppi333 (Insert ) 01:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Template cropping: these 3 images use the same image file
Example 1
cropped horizontally; expanded vertically
Racemic amphetamine
Full version, expanded vertically (the area where the wikilinks appear is not part of the image)
Example 2
cropped horizontally; expanded vertically

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── You'll understand my saying that I really don't want to navigate all that syntax for every image -- I'd just like to use link=, so can we agree that the changed text I proposed above is OK? EEng (talk) 01:45, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

If link is used with thumb, the linked image should be a full, uncropped image from which the thumbnail was cropped, or a full document from which thumbnail was a single page, or crop of a single page.
Add the word "generally" between "linked image should" and "be a full" and I think that's fine. It's best not to mandate a particular method for layout/syntax when there may be unusual cases in which it would be better if done differently.
In any event, should you ever decide to use it, the parameters in the AI4 template mirror the syntax in a double-bracketed image/file call, and the remainder are pretty straightforward to use. Seppi333 (Insert ) 05:28, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Lead image?[edit]

Lead image is upright=1.35 is NOT the sixe of 300px. Just tried it, it's much bigger. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jackie_Chan&diff=672862056&oldid=672861350 check here. Or is it the infobox? Hafspajen (talk) 10:35, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

  • It looks like infobox image doesn't work on upright="1.3", it's GIANT, it can't replace 300px, it is not the same size at all... Hafspajen (talk) 11:06, 24 July 2015 (UTC)