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Can anyone identify this gun please?
It's on an Italian MAS (motorboat) and is from an article called "Submarine Hunting" in a magazine published in January 1917. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alansplodge (talk • contribs) 10:55, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, I can't identify the gun but internet pictures show there is an example of one in the Italian Naval Museum at La Spezia. I checked their website but, alas, couldn't find more details. But maybe it is a lead? Monstrelet (talk) 10:14, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- I checked my Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II which is quite comprehensive, I have looked through machine guns, cannons and even against the MAS boat itself and had no luck either. It doesn't look like a machine gun, but the MAS boat entry said they were only armed with torpedos and an MG. I don't know what type of gun it is or its calibre to look further. Any thoughs on what type of gun it is might open new leads. — Marcus(talk) 10:44, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- Not sure, really. Possibly a 37 / 20.6 cannon?  Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:41, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- See  - 37/25 H 1890 1pdr, described as "torpedo boat gun" - but no pic.Icewhiz (talk) 12:29, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- The MAS was produced in lots of different versions from WWI right into WWII; and the secondary armament accordingly changed rather frequent. Also a non-regulation armament is possible to make it more difficult, though I don´t how likely that is. Some of the versions are posted on this board and on that one as well; of course I don´t know how correct or complete the info is. But as the picture description says it is in 1917 it surely limits the options ...GELongstreet (talk) 12:47, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- True, but there aren't many options for guns of that caliber. It sure looks like a Hotchkiss 1-pounder to me. Parsecboy (talk) 13:01, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- I did try that but I'm not convinced of the match. The la Spezia example shows very clearly the stock and trigger, which seems to be of a different design.Monstrelet (talk) 16:20, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- If it is a 1pdr Hotchkiss then the 1890 Hotchkiss 37mm Lungo seems the most likely, or a variant thereof. This was apparently used by Italian navy at the time of WWI. Can't find a labelled match photo. The one definitely of this weapon at La Spezia is frustratingly unlabelled. Monstrelet (talk) 17:34, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) There were two different Hotchkiss 1-pounders in Italian service - the /21 1886 variant and the /25 1890 variant (the Lungo mentioned above), and if you look through Google images, you see 1-pounders (from various navies) with all sorts of mounts, grips, and recuperators. I wouldn't discount 1886 version, since there would have been plenty of them lying around. Parsecboy (talk) 17:35, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- Agreed. I thought this may be the longer barelled 1890 version. Here is the La Spezia one for the record https://wargamingmiscellanybackup.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ce496-laspezianavalmuseum2016-021.jpg?w=364&h=400 Monstrelet (talk) 17:42, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- The Hotchkiss went through all sorts of mods, including I believe marrying the barrel with breeches from other guns. The spotting rifle and mounting, in this pic, are variable between different variations.Icewhiz (talk) 17:59, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- Very true. For reference, MAS 96 appears to be carrying one of the /21 1886 guns (compare with Puglia) - looks to be the same kind of mount, even. Parsecboy (talk) 18:05, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you all most kindly. This is for an image that I posted on the MAS (motorboat) article, and I intend to put "probably a 1-pounder (37 mm) Hotchkiss quick-firing gun" in the caption, unless anybody thinks this is misleading. Alansplodge (talk) 16:41, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
- I tried to shoehorn some info on this type of gun into the US section of QF 1-pounder pom-pom, which is what "1-pounder" redirects to. The single shot weapons really need a separate article, though. I have found little online info about them. Compounding the problem is that both "machine gun" and "single shot" versions are all called QF or RF, depending on country. RobDuch (talk) 21:09, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
- I would not use "probably" in the caption as it's an expression of doubt; WP:Manual of Style/Words to watch#Expressions of doubt. If it looks like one put that it is a Hotchkiss... if someone can identify it as a different gun later on they're free to dispute it. — Marcus(talk) 13:03, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I've just unmoved a move because I found that guerrilla is the common spelling in wiki; is guerilla not the usual spelling? Keith-264 (talk) 13:11, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- m-w  lists it as as a variant, with the double-r as the primary. Same here - .Icewhiz (talk) 13:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- Hmmm, Wonder how I got them confused...? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 14:26, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- Derived from the French guerre (war), I believe. Mjroots (talk) 19:23, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
- Actually Spanish guerra. The British seem to have adopted it based on experience in the Peninsular War. Monstrelet (talk) 17:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
Maneuver warfare is probably the worst Wikipeia article that falls under the auspices of this project I have read this year. Not only is most of it unreferenced,(still far too common a problem and that is not the main issue)it is in places embarrassing.
The lead currently states
Maneuver warfare, or manoeuvre warfare, is a military strategy that advocates attempting to defeat the enemy by incapacitating their decision-making through shock and disruption.
One can incapacitate decision-making through a heavy bombardment (as happened at the start of the First Gulf War the war of manoeuvre came later in the campaign. That is not embarrassing it is just lead that does not meet the lead guideline. This paragraph is embarrassing:
For the majority of history, armies were limited in their speed to that of the marching soldier, about equal for everyone involved. ... In prehistoric times, that began to change with the domestication of the horse
From the Wikipedia leads on history and prehistoric articles:
- History "is the study of the past as it is described in written documents"
- Prehistoric "is the period of human activity between the use of the first stone tools c. 3.3 million years ago and the invention of writing systems,"
In the same section the editor who arranged the text does not seem to realise that the smaller the date in BC the more modern it is hence it has these examples in this order:
One of the most famous early maneuver tactics was the double envelopment, used by Hannibal against the Romans, at the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC ...
The retreat of the center of the Athenian and Platean Hoplites at the battle of Marathon against the forces of Datis in 490 BC and the subsequent pincer movement by the Athenian forces on the flanks used a similar tactic....
Khalid's invasion of Roman Syria in July 634, by invading Syria from the most unexpected direction, ...
The section on Napoleon is not much better eg "Napoleon also arranged his forces into what today would be called 'Battle Groups' of combined arms"!
Can someone who know something about the subject please give the article some TLC. -- PBS (talk) 21:47, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thought I was experiencing déjà vu. Seems not. I raised similar concerns about this article and another article (Attrition warfare) just a short while ago, back in April. Not much resulted from it, I gather. Still full of badly-written OR and SYNTH crap? WT:WikiProject Military history/Archive 139#Maneuver warfare article — Marcus(talk) 20:23, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- G'day, gents, thank you for the feedback. If you don't get any interest, my advice would be to cross post your concerns on the various talk pages. Eventually, someone will be interested in working on them. Additionally, putting them up for peer review might help, but again that runs the risk that there might not currently be people interested or able to work on these articles. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:12, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Could just be me, but I think the article suffers from modern Ameri-centric bias and reasoning whilst failing to source and reference a broad range of global military history texts, since war is as old as humanity itself, as are many basic tactics. You'd think there'd be room for some The Art of War in there too, but it all appears to have been written from the top of someone's head without any detailed research or referencing whatsoever. IMO, it's due a top-down rewrite rather than a clean-up, along with Attrition warfare, which is equally as bad. — Marcus(talk) 12:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- I had a look at the pre-modern bit. There was a reference to the Agincourt campaign which was so wrong it was misleading, so I'm afraid I cut it rather than fixed it (I wouldn't have used it as an example).
Overall, the article struggles to separate a strategic doctrine from just manoeuvering on the battlefield. Cannae is not an example of manouever warfare, its an example of a tactical double envelopment. I could easily reorder this section chronologically but I can't check its accuracy. Monstrelet (talk) 13:27, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
The article is missing many references, and in general is in poor shape. It could really use some attention from this project and its track record of excellence. Thanks, Khirurg (talk) 06:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- From the looks of things the shape of the article isn't really the primary issue here – there appears to be a major dispute on the talk page between User:Khirurg and User:Lord Aseem. I see the word "Indophobia" being used a lot by someone, but it doesn't help that you are responding to each other within each others signed replies instead of restricting yourselves to seperate paragraphs. Might be best if you both step back for a bit to prevent an edit war from breaking out and ask for members of this project or Wiki admins in general review the dispute and help settle it, rather than expect this project to simply jump in and clean-up the entire article for you, because it doesn't work that way. Given the length of the article, I'd have through that 42 references would be enough, but it seems you two can't argee on them or their relevance and that's why it's in poor shape. Any edit war that involves editors accusing each other of nationalistic viewpoints and racial/phobic bias can't be good... — Marcus(talk) 19:39, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Well as far as accusations of Indophobia and "replying within each other's signed replies", I don't know if you noticed, but it's exclusively Lord Aseem who is guilty of that. Painting everyone with the same brush is not helpful. Anyway, my bad for posting here, should have known better. Khirurg (talk) 19:53, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Wasn't "painting everyone with the same brush", just didn't have the patience to work out which replies belonged to who, far too many and far too jumbled. Simply an observation. Doesn't help that you go from one polarised view to another either – consider: "this project and its track record of excellence" to "my bad for posting here, should have known better". You change your views quicker than I can change a shirt. If you had a motive when you came here you should have been more open about the ongoing dispute with the article first instead of skirting the matter and looking for someone else to do the dirty work. I'm sure if anyone has time and patience to review the article they will. There may not be a large number of members into that period of history though, so you'll have to wait and see... and try to be a bit more upfront about the problems with Lord Aseem, you'll find it gains you more credit and helps iron out the issues faster. Then you can move on and focus on fixing the article and its content. — Marcus(talk) 20:12, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Looking for ideas of things to work on
Hey there military history folks. I am fairly new to actual editing here on Wikipedia and not really sure where to start. I asked at the teahouse as well but thought I might ask here as well as something of a military history buff myself. Billbo T. Baggins (talk) 00:14, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- G'day, Billbo, welcome! The project maintains several lists of open tasks, for instance here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks. Also, if you are interested in a specific subset of military history, you might look at the individual lists maintained on our constituent task forces. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks much. I'll check those out. Billbo T. Baggins (talk) 00:36, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- What topics are you interested in? There's always lots which can be done to both improve articles on 'big picture' topics or fill more specialised gaps. Once you've been editing for a while, User:SuggestBot is quite useful BTW. Nick-D (talk) 00:49, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks again. With those excellent suggestions as well as the ones on the Teahouse I should be able to figure something out now. Billbo T. Baggins (talk) 00:51, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone know how to devise better coords for this article, considering that the action straggles all over the place? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 08:07, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Use of infobox at Cold-Weather warfare
User:Gaioa and I are in disagreement over whether Template:Infobox military conflict is appropriate for the article at Cold-weather warfare. Please advise us at Talk:Cold-weather warfare#Infobox. Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 11:57, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Is the abovementioned medal sufficient to make this recipient notable enough for an article here? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:16, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- By itself, per a recent RFC, no. It does contribute towads notability, but is not enough by itself.Icewhiz (talk) 18:23, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks Icewhiz, could you post a link to the RFC so that I can cite it when declining the draft. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:37, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- See . In the past it was different. Becker, dying in 2016, might meet GNG, but not with the sourced provided. There would have to be some more significant sourcing, with a bio based on something more than a listing in a knight cross book.Icewhiz (talk) 18:41, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've declined it with a suitable explanation. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:11, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere but as a newby I don't know. Would the same argument extend to other top awards for countries such as the Victoria Cross, Medal of Honor and others? It seems to me that a lot the articles for these would also not meet GNG as I understand it but I could be misreading it. I guess I am wondering if they are different, what makes them different just so I understand? Billbo T. Baggins (talk) 01:40, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- The Victoria Cross and Medal of Honor are considered to inherently convey notability. The situation with the Knights Cross is a little more complex. The RfC referred to is perhaps something of a political decision (my personal observation). It has to do with the large number of recipients, that it was awarded fairly liberally and multiple times to individual recipients (ie higher grades) and that it was often awarded for service and not just valour (even though the last is also true of the Medal of Honor). This is probably as clear as mud but reading through the RfC will clarify some of the issues. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:02, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- There are some politics involved, but also other issues. KC was awarded not just for valor, but also for leadership, and as the war progressed there was an "inflation" of this award. Finally SOLDIER, while highly regarded, is not policy, but an essay - it establishes presumed notability under GNG, but you still have to meet GNG, and for some of these KC recipients sourcing is quite scant (an incident description often in a hagiographical psuedo-history which is borderline reliable and in works cataloging KC recipients in a scant fashion). The same could apply to medals of other nations for subjects with a similar sourcing level - while the RFC cited was on KC, the principles would be the same for other medals.Icewhiz (talk) 03:57, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Part of the problem is what is effectively systemic bias against articles about Knight's Cross recipients, due to the fact that there are probably reliable sources like newspapers, books etc in German that are not as easily accessible as those in English for VC and MoH recipients, and the fact that few highly decorated Germans were lauded after WWII because Germany lost the war and committed horrific crimes against humanity. The reality is that, for a private soldier, the KC was all he was ever going to get, regardless of how many levels there were above the base KC. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
I just invited Pintere to add those Iron Cross recipient articles to the Military wiki over at Wikia here. I would like to extend that invitation to you all as well if any of you are interested. I sometimes edit there and it doesn't have the same notability criteria as Wikipedia and is a good place to defer people in situations like this when the articles have value but just don't meet Wikipedia criteria for notability. PS, as I told Pintere, it is best viewed in none wikia skin format. I hate the Wikia skin personally and try to avoid using it whenever possible. I hope to see at least some of you there. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 15:00, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- If there is anything systemic, then it is the lack of reliable sources on Knight's Cross recipients, many of whom therefore fail WP:GNG. This has nothing to do with accessibility of sources. If there is a bias then it rather seems to result from the willingness of the English Wikipedia to accept sources which are not easily accessible even in Germany, mainly because these sources have been published by special interest publishers with little or no reputation for reliability and are thus not held by many libraries. Given the lack of RS the number of articles on KC recipients in the English Wikipedia is astonishingly high. It is higher than in the German Wikipedia. German military historiography has seldom used a prosopographical approach to "highly decorated soldiers". This is not a post-WW II development, but even after WW I biographical dictionaries of Pour le Mérite-recipients have been written and published in close connection with or even by the Ritterschaft des Ordens Pour le Mérite, just like after WW II the Ordensgemeinschaft der Ritterkreuzträger was instrumental in producing biographies of their revered members. Only few private soldiers received a KC, because to get one you needed to be recommended and supported by your superior officer and it is well known that such recommendations were subject of favoritism. The Nazi primary sources on which most of the KC recipients' literature is based, are inherently unreliable and thus this literature suffers from its uncritical approach.--Assayer (talk) 10:26, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
- Fair point but I feel like this argument could also be extended to other awards as well. For example, the majority of the Medal of Honor recipients were pre World War I and often just say things like Captured the flag with very few references available other than primary sources from the US military. So, although many would certainly easily pass WP:GNG, a lot of these early recipients, such as those during the American Civil War, probably wouldn't other than the generic statement that any recipient is notable. Whichever is the case, I really think this project and Wikipedia should do it consistently and evenly for all awards. If the requirement is they are considered notable because the received the award then great, if not then that's ok, but it should be consistent IMO. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 12:36, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
User:Keith-264 has chosen to describe this edit as "infelicitous" & this as "incvil" & "complaining". Comment at the Malta Convoys talk page is invited. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 16:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'm at a loss as to why Trek had taken such umbrage at a mild objection to the diatribe he left on the talk page or his unwillingness to discuss his edits as I suggested but will avoid 3RR and hope that other editors take a look at the edits. I hope that help will move towards consensus. I'd particularly like help to discover why the definite article is so inflammatory. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 16:57, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Hmmm, handbags holstered. ;O)Keith-264 (talk) 09:59, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'd be very interested to know why a demand for "consensus" & "discussion" was met with indifference & treating the very discussion demanded as if it was a waste of time, followed by accusations of ownership, when it's his own adds he's insistent on keeping (judging by the latest rv on the page--to his preferred edit), without any of the "discussion" he demanded from me. And calling my rv "vandalism" in the process. So much for BRD. So much for WP guidelines. So much for civil treatment. I suppose I'm supposed to just take it, shut up, & go away, am I? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 21:43 & 21:47, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- I think you're exaggerating a content dispute into a one-sided personality clash; look at the talk page.Keith-264 (talk) 22:23, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Can anyone remember that a while back, several of us went through a lot of Western Desert Campaign articles removing interpolations by an Italian chauvinist? There was a list of articles to check and I wonder if the Second Italo-Ethiopian War was one? The Analysis section of this article looks a bit dodgy, could he have had a hand in it? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 17:28, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Was that User:AnnalesSchool or one of his socks you're thinking of? I don't see anything from him in the edit history (but I didn't check all of the IPs he used, so he might have added things that way). Parsecboy (talk) 15:09, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- That's him, there's a whiff of apologetics over gas warfare too. Just wondered. ThanksKeith-264 (talk) 15:15, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
US National Archives images of World War I
At the US National Archives, we've been uploading images from our holdings to Wikimedia Commons. In August, I started uploading a major collection of World War I photos, and now we have done about 50,000 of over 100,000, so I really want to let you all know about it. You can find all of these at Category:US National Archives series: Photographs of American Military Activities, Category:US_National_Archives_series:_American_Unofficial_Collection_of_World_War_I_Photographs, and Category:US_National_Archives_series:_German_Military_Activities_and_Personnel. Or, you can also peruse our bot's uploads. You can learn more about this collection here.
I would love to see these images put to use on Wikipedia, because there is a lot of really great material that could go in articles. Aside from locations, equipment and weaponry, daily life, and so on, there are also pictures of notable people. In addition, help with categorizing on Commons would be very welcome. As you can see, many of the images may need cropping before placement in articles—but they should be high-resolution enough that it's not a problem—and for anyone who is good at working with images, that is a great way to help as well (please upload new files when doing so, so the original isn't lost). Files are still being uploaded right now, as this batch is only about half done, but there is a lot to look at already. Let me know if you have any questions. Dominic·t 19:47, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- This is fascinating. Loading a torpedo tube from the outside with a few kicks. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- Pretty sure this has to be a Nevada-class battleship. I can't think of any other US WWI vessels with that 2 over 3 gun arrangement. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:04, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- Partly mistaken name, the description makes it clear that this is Pensacola, not Jahncke. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:31, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'll see you and I'll raise you. Consider File:"Somewhere in England, Maj. Charity E. Adams,...and Capt. Abbie N. Campbell,...inspect the first contingent of Negro members of the Women's Army Corps assigned to overseas service." - NARA - 531249.gif It is of course an image from World War II, not World War I. The people at Commons need to do some work properly categorising the images. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- I can definitely look into reporting errors. We had a process for that a while back, as you know, but it went defunct, and I don't have the power to change catalog records. Dominic·t 15:48, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi @Dominic:. These have been uploaded as jpeg, though I'm presuming the originals are not in a compressed format. Would you consider swapping to uploading the original uncompressed files in TIFF or PNG format? Using PNG would be a good choice as thumbnails on Wikipedia would work well, and Croptool would be usable. --Fæ (talk) 16:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
A new user has an axe to grind Several articles are in need of review
A newly registered user has taken issue with the following two pages, and is heavily tagging them.
They clearly have an axe to grind, and I do not think such extensive tagging is constructive. Rather than edit-warring with them, looking for a coordinator etc. to review the situation? Thank you.Thetweaker2017 (talk) 17:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
- Hi. Not really a reasonable conclusion. I'm a long retired editor who came back after seeing serious issues on a few articles. Issues that grow the more I look. The tags are all legit, and documented in Talk pages. No need to assume I'm acting in bad faith. I've been very patient and waited for interested editors to respond to my concerns. But, I am very much hoping for more eyes on both articles. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 17:11, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
- ten separate tags in the hatnote area of an article rated GA? Controversial. GraemeLeggett (talk) 17:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
- I'd agree. Is GA worth nothing anymore? :) LargelyRecyclable (talk) 17:37, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
- Per your comment, struck several of my comments; AGF.Thetweaker2017 (talk) 17:40, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
I think I've largely finished my work on Panzerschlachten for now and would really like some feedback. I've taken it from this to this. The issues that initially attracted my attention to this article seem to be systemic across possibly hundreds of articles, centering around two or three editors. Since none of them have logged on since I started my work I would really like feed back from MILHIST on whether or not this is the general direction to be going. Any feedback at all, positive or negative, substantial or brief, is greatly appreciated. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 17:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Rommel myth, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 13:41, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
I just listed my picks for November TFA reruns at WT:TFA, and (with some sadness) I had to omit this article because it doesn't look like it's going to survive its trip through WP:FAR, with 10 tags. I'm not sure what we're going to run on 11 November this year and next; this is the only top-level WWI FA we've got, and it's probably not long for this world, unless someone yanks some sentences or provides some references. - Dank (push to talk) 19:31, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- G'day, I think I've dealt with this now, but if others could take a look that would be greatly appreciated. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:39, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Dudley thinks you got them all. Thanks a million. - Dank (push to talk) 15:24, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Bumping this ... more problems. The review page is Wikipedia:Featured article review/Western Front (World War I)/archive1. - Dank (push to talk) 20:56, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 Sock? Keith-264 (talk) 21:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
- @Keith-264: by the looks of it. This article has been dragged through so much dirt in the past few months and I've grown real tired of protecting it from socks. I would appreciate it if other editors would pitch in to monitor this article because its getting to the point where I would have to violate the 3-revert rule to stop the disruptive edits. Also, I think the temporary semi-protection on the article just simply isn't enough. It already received that protection this summer and though it did temporarily stem the flow of disruption from IPs and single-purpose socks, everything came back as soon as the block was lifted. And then there was one socker who had the idea of committing low-level vandalism to achieve auto-confirmed status for their sock so they could disruptively edit the article. Right now, there is one disruptive editor who is probably a sock that has auto-confirmed status that is running free on the article because they are not restricted from editing it. I think we need to present this to admins as a whole picture to secure better protections. -Indy beetle (talk) 03:26, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Quite agree, its getting beyond a joke.Keith-264 (talk) 10:23, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Ask at WP:AN for extended confirmed protection. I recently got that imposed on an airline article that was the target of a large sockfarm. Mjroots (talk) 17:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Was there an HMS Marne that was lost in 1841 at Phillippeville, French Algeria, or was she a French ship? The Times of 15 February 1841 refers to "Her Most Faithful Majesty's Ship Marne", whereas the issue of 13 February says she was a French corvette lost in the Gulf of Stora with the loss of 57 crew. Mjroots (talk) 17:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- No 19th century ship by that name is listed in Colledge. All the local papers I've looked at for that period all refer to the same French newspaper account that the Times article references. Nthep (talk) 20:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Worth remembering that in 1841 the French king was the Catholic Louis Philippe I, which would make some sense of the Times' comment...or could have been an attempt to refer to Queen Maria II of Portugal. Hchc2009 (talk) 23:00, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- Marne being a French ship makes sense if the reference to "Her Majesty" was in error. Can't see why Portugal would name a ship after a French river. Mjroots (talk) 07:12, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Templates for discussion
The relevant discussion can be found here:
K.e.coffman (talk) 23:12, 23 September 2017 (UTC)