Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Comics

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WikiProject Comics (Rated Project-class)
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WikiProject Manual of Style
WikiProject iconThis page falls within the scope of WikiProject Manual of Style, a drive to identify and address contradictions and redundancies, improve language, and coordinate the pages that form the MoS guidelines.
 

An arts-and-media MoS proposal[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

At Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Proposal: Adopt WP:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines into MoS, it's been suggested to merge that WP:PROJPAGE into MoS, as one of the last remaining genre/medium-specific style guide kinds of pages that isn't in MoS, especially since someone's already put a guideline tag on it, and given it a misleading MOS:VG shortcut.

Strangely, several people from the WP:VG wikiproject have shown up to make what appear to be WP:OWN-based arguments against the idea. I hope that people from other media and arts projects, all of which have MoS pages (largely authored and maintained by people from those projects, but without a claim of absolute control by them) can participate in this discussion and assuage the unreasonable fears of people in that particular project. Promotion of topical style advice pages into MoS has not proven any kind of problem for WP:VISUALARTS, WP:ARTS, WP:FILM, WP:TV, WP:COMICS, WP:ANIME, WP:NOVELS, WP:MUSIC, etc. Meanwhile, the continued fragmentation of such a page to an "un-MoS" page (while simultaneously claiming to be an MoS page, somehow), is misleading and a recipe for conflict.

Or, if you think there's is some kind of problem, feel free to give the opposite opinion. I'm not telling anyone how they should !vote. I'm pointing out that that all the arts-and-media projects and arts-and-media MoS pages share a common sort of history, as well as the same practicality of their advice being included in MoS or shunted to a wikiproject backwater where no one is apt to take "guideline" claims seriously; it's the same across all these projects and pages. So is the increased level to which they agree instead of conflict, by virtue of MoS maintainers ironing out WP:POLICYFORKs between them.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  23:39, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Actors in plot summaries[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Please see Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film#Proposed MoS change: actors' names (not) in plot sections

Gist: MOS:FILM and MOS:TV are in conflict about whether to give actors' names in plot summaries. (This doesn't affect comics per se, but comics-related films, TV, and voice-acted video games).  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  02:07, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Merge in WP:NCCOMICS[edit]

We really need to fix this redundant WP:POLICYFORK. WP:Manual of Style/Comics is already about 50% naming conventions, so a split off page of sometimes contradictory material at WP:Naming conventions (comics) serves no purpose and is counter productive. This situation is quite worse than useless. It's already common practice for topical MoS pages to contain a naming conventions section (at the bottom, not the top) with a {{Subcat guideline|naming convention}} section header, so the page cross-categorizes as both an MoS and an NC guideline. (This is also how WP:SAL is done – it's an MoS, NC, and content guideline all at once, in different sections, and it works fine – better than the original mess of three conflicting pages).

The NC section should be compressed to not be redundant with the general MoS material above it, but only address titling-specific matters. After merger, the final result might end up being shorter than the current MOS:COMICS page by itself (since it is written backwards and repeating NC stuff as general-prose stuff), or it could in theory be slightly longer, but will in any case be much more concise that two separate pages of rehash, and unable to result in any further policyforking.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  08:38, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm fine with it. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Merge since the latter page is largely redundant. Combining them would result in a more cleaner and concise guideline. — AfroThundr (u · t · c) 02:11, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
Though not a member of this project, I'd support this since it will deal with the policy fork of the naming conventions. Just a question, you want to merge the MoS in the NC (as I understand from the title) or the way around (basically asking what the final page will be named)?--Gonnym (talk) 20:39, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
Merge the NC into the MoS page, since it's a subtopic here already, but it's not logically possible for MoS material that isn't title related to be part of a naming convention (which only covers titles).  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  04:16, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Is Clark Kent Superman's public identity, codename, code name, identity, real name, alternate name, public persona, or something else?[edit]

Naming conventions, 1.1 Characters seems to indicate that in most instances we should use "codename" to refer to a character's public persona. Has the WikiProject reached consensus on this question and formally recommended using "codename" unless there is a compelling reason to use another term?

The term I have seen most often over the years is "public identity". (By "over the years" I'm referring to collecting comics starting in 1973; working at Pacific Comics in San Diego through high school; on the board of San Diego Comic-Con for two years, and keeping up with the field off and on since then.)

Therefore, I am baffled by the recommendation to use "codename". Oh, I forgot to mention that in section 1.1 Characters , "codename" links to the Wikipedia article Code name. Note the difference in spelling. Also note that the article Code name never mentions comics, comix, or comic books.

Please tell me if I am missing something (which is always a possibility. ;-)

Thanks!   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I am a man. The traditional male pronouns are fine.) 17:29, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

That section isn't recommending that we universally use the word codename to describe a costumed identity in an article. It's using the word to give guidance on how an article should be titled. Argento Surfer (talk) 17:36, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Ah, thank you for clarifying and helping me understand better Argento Surfer. I'll read again in a day or to with fresh eyes. If it still seems murky to me, I'll copy edit that part and post a note here so others can take a look.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I am a man. The traditional male pronouns are fine.) 18:10, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Superheroes, villains, and other comics characters often have a public identity or alter ego as well as their superhero or villain identity. People in the "everyday world" don't know that Clark Kent (public identity) is Superman (superhero identity), or that Green Lantern lives in the day-to-day "regular" world as Hal Jordan. J. Jonah Jameson complains about Spider-Man to young photojournalist Peter Parker, not knowing that Parker is the public identity of Spider-Man.

To determine the most appropriate article name for a character, use the most well-known name. If a given character is best known by their public identity, then that name should serve as the article name. Thus, Norman Osborn is a stand-alone article about the original Green Goblin, whereas the latter article discusses several "Green Goblin" characters appearing in Marvel Comics. Other examples include John Constantine rather than Hellblazer; Lois Lane rather than Superwoman; and Roy Harper rather than Arsenal or Red Arrow, two of his lesser-known superhero incarnations, but along with an article about Speedy, Roy Harper's more established Golden Age DC comics superhero character.

If readers know a character by both their superhero (or villain) name and public identity in equal measure, usually the superhero (or villain) name functions best as article title.

Where a character's name includes an abbreviated term, such as "Mr." for "Mister", title the article using the abbreviated term. So it is Mr. Freeze but Doctor Destiny.

Rationale: Among comics fans, writers, and publishers, "public identity" and "alter ego" enjoy much more use than "codename". The Wikipedia article, codename does not mention comics at all--additional evidence of the word's incongruity in this context.
What do you all think?   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I am a man. The traditional male pronouns are fine.) 08:26, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Flags[edit]

I saw the edits to the flags section. I'm not entirely sure why such a section even exists in this guideline, since it has nothing to say that is directly relevant to the comics domain. I suggest that it should be removed. --Izno (talk) 20:59, 2 May 2019 (UTC)