Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles

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Irish parliament[edit]

Request for Comment -> changing Kingdom of Ulidia to a redirect for Ulaid[edit]

Per the section title. Discussion at Talk:Kingdom_of_Ulidia#Page_redirect_request_for_comment. Mabuska (talk) 22:45, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

NI political parties[edit]

Do we insert the Irish name for political parties after the English-language name, for Unionist parties that don't use Irish, ever? I would assume that the corollary from Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Ireland-related_articles#Naming_people would apply and you wouldn't insert an Irish-language name where the organisation itself doesn't use an Irish name. Giving the DUP and UUP an Irish-language translation just seems pointy to me. Others disagree. Thoughts? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:51, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

No; this just seems like trying to annoy the political parties. It doesn't make sense to give them Irish names, for they don't use the language at all. There is absolutely no need at all. Also pinging the editor who added it: Apollo The Logician. st170e 13:45, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
I agree. Giving the UUP/etc Irish names is misleading and wrong. They never use Irish names.____Ebelular (talk) 14:11, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
Not to mention that if we did that, we would need to include Ulster-Scots too, which likewise wouldn't make the nationalist parties to happy either. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:47, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
I agree. It's ridiculous, as is adding made-up Irish versions of names of recipients of the Victoria Cross, e.g. John Hogan (VC).--Damac (talk) 17:52, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
Ok, that's seems like a clear consensus - will remove them, so. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 16:38, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Project: Northern Ireland[edit]

I recently removed the WP:NI banner from a few pages (Ulaid for example) because the province refered to as "Northern Ireland" was not founded until 1921. User:Mabuska objected saying that Ulaid (and the other articles I removed it from) are related to the area that is now refered to as "Northern Ireland" so it doesn't matter if it wasn't founded until hundreds of years later.

So basically I am asking should the WP:NI banner appear on talk pages of things that happened before the province's foundation?Apollo The Logician (talk) 08:38, 2 July 2017 (UTC) Apollo The Logician (talk) 08:38, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

It is normal practice, for example Rheged existed long before Scotland ever did but that WikiProject is included on its talk page. Elmet existed before Yorkshire did but has its Wikiproject banner. Gododdin has the English, Welsh and Scottish ones despite the fact it never reached into Wales! The Battle of the Alamo took place in the Republic of Texas not the USA but it has the USA WikiProject banner on its talk page. Similarly why does the DUP talk page include the Ireland WikiProject banner when the DUP was founded in NI and only stands in NI along with the fact the NI WikiProject is a child of both the UK and Ireland WikiProjects? Most settlements in NI where founded before NI was created, should we also remove it from them as well? Mabuska (talk) 13:13, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
The area refered to as Scotland etc has consistently remained the same while the boundaries on the island of Ireland have not. As for areas where boundaries have changed (Texas) I dont see how that matters. Policies should be evaluated based on their merit not based on whether they are normal practice or not.Apollo The Logician (talk) 13:45, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
You haven't provided any logical rationale for your argument and you obviously don't know the geopolitcal history of Scotland very well. Let's not forget Lothian being part of Anglo-Saxon England and the Hebrides belonging the the Kingdom of the Isles and the Orkneys and Shetlands belonging to Norway all whilst Scotland did exist... Very consistent... Unless you provide something meaningful or get others to input and all agree with you then this issue is closed. Mabuska (talk) 16:35, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
As I already stated policies should be evaluated based on merit not based on what you label "normal practice". You ignored this.Apollo The Logician (talk) 17:33, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
Kievan Rus' has banners from WikiProject Belarus, Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukraine, WikiProject Poland and WikiProject Russia, none of which countries existed for hundreds of years after the topic of that article, except Poland which has the least overlap of the four with it. So convention appears to be on Mabuska's side. I can't see what policy is being contravened here; it seems to me that anything that might be of interest to a WikiProject can and should have that project's banner.
In any event, this is not a question of style, so the MOS page is not the right place to discuss it. Scolaire (talk) 20:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
No policy is being contravened and as the WikiProject shell banner says "of interest to the following WikiProjects" and in articles such as Ulaid, which historically where confined almost entirely in what is now NI with key figures, events and places located within what is now NI so it is highly relevant. You want to go the legendary capital of Ulaid? Its at Emain Macha outside Armagh; the historical capital of the reduced Ulaid, then Dun Lethglase (Downpatrick) in Down; or maybe that of the Dal nAraidi of Magh Line at Rath Mor outside Antrim? The significant ancient battles of Magh Rath or even Moin Daire Lothair? All located obviously in NI. Mabuska (talk) 09:19, 3 July 2017 (UTC)