Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Linking

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Another problem?[edit]

Well, there is a sort of thing I don't like with some links. Examples such as (just for example) Watermelon instead of Watermelon. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 02:31, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

That comes under the advice against "bunching" in MOSLINK. Tony (talk) 03:49, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
I thought that falls under WP:SEAOFBLUE. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Née[edit]

Should the term "née" be linked and/or italicized? I work with a lot of different biographical articles which reference the subjects' parents. This term is therefore used frequently. I remember in the past née was always linked to the appropriate article but this was removed as most editors deemed it now overlink. However, I have seen a few articles where editors insisted on linking and sometimes even italicizing the term. What is the guideline for this term? Thanks. 2602:306:C5D4:8750:18A5:ACC4:97A5:D0EC (talk) 03:22, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Linking to a disambiguation page with a one-liner about the topic[edit]

Ran across an interesting case today and want to see what the guidance is. Knights of Legend links to Scorpia, which is a disambiguation page. However, Scorpia (game journalist) doesn't have her own page but she does have a one-line description on the dab page, which is not an unknown practice. Since I believe that an article could be written about this topic I could redlink Scorpia (game journalist) but that would remove access to the brief bit of info we have on the dab page. Are there any clean solutions to this other than just creating a new article for Scorpia (game journalist)? (courtesy pinging CapnZapp) Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 18:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

That's a plausible red link, so it should be red linked IMO. Someone who does a search (from the red link page) will likely find the disambiguation page. --Izno (talk) 19:54, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Per WP:DABRELATED, an article should only be linked to from a dab page "if the term being disambiguated is actually described in the target article". So Scorpia the journalist shouldn't be included in the Scorpia dab page, because the linked article (Computer Gaming World) only mentions her once in passing – and if she was properly discussed in that article, the Knights of Legend page should link straight to it, bypassing the dab page. So either way, linking to the dab page isn't really appropriate here. DoctorKubla (talk) 09:48, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the courtesy, OSS. Just to clarify Dr Kubla: nobody is suggesting the link to Scorpia should be to the CGW magazine. OSS: feel free to change the links to a red one for Scorpia (game journalist) if you like. We could still use the disambiguation page's talk page as a repository for the known facts about the subject until such time somebody is inclined to create a page. Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 16:01, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Oh I see, Kubla - somebody bluelinked my mention of the magazine. That was not my intention - I fully agree it isn't useful (especially since when Scorpia is mentioned by game articles, it's almost always right next to a link to the mag). But please don't use the actions of others as argument against OSS' proposal: as I see it, the problem is not that Scorpia is on the disambig, but that somebody added a link to a page that barely mentions her. CapnZapp (talk) 16:08, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Scorpia being on the dab page is the problem, I'm afraid. Disambiguation pages have to lead the reader somewhere useful – that's what they're for. See MOS:DABRL: "Red links should not be the only link in a given entry; link also to an existing article, so that a reader (as opposed to a contributing editor) will have somewhere to navigate to for additional information. The linked article should contain some meaningful information about the term." DoctorKubla (talk) 18:20, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
First off, thank you for educating me of the exception to the general "one link only" rule. I didn't know you could have two links in this case. Then, ...well, what's then? I don't see anything wrong after redlinking to a future Scorpia journo page; do note that the passage you quoted is for the case where all pages that use the red link are disambiguation pages. Which is not the case, not since I linked to Scorpia from a bunch of the game articles that mention her reviews. DABRL starts by saying
A link to a non-existent article (a "red link") should only be included on a disambiguation page when an article (not just disambiguation pages) also includes that red link. Do not create red links to articles that are unlikely ever to be written, or are likely to be removed as insufficiently notable topics.
Right, so I believe my attempts meet all these requirements so far. Articles link to the disambig. The Scorpia article is not "unlikely ever to be written" (especially since Wikipedia would welcome a page on a woman pioneer). It's hopefully deemed notable, especially since I went through all that trouble to point how how ubiquitous her work were at the time. I suggest we do nothing now, but wait for some brave soul to actually write her article. Unless of course I've missed something. Best regards, CapnZapp (talk) 21:56, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
The point is that there shouldn't be links to a dab page in the body of an article (see WP:INTDAB), and an entry in a dab page shouldn't link to an article that doesn't provide any additional information on the subject. (I'm really not that fussed about this, I just want you to understand where I'm coming from.) DoctorKubla (talk) 11:30, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
Ah. I guess I'm used to Wikipedians being rather aggressive about conforming to protocol. Perhaps you mean "in general, I mean this" rather than "there's an error and I must fix this within X hours"? Because the policy clearly allows for us to create red links to articles not yet written. I realize now that even "red articles" can show you "what links here": the only reason I linked all those articles to the DAB page was to help establish notability by allowing a concerned editor to click "what links here" to see for him or herself that Scorpia is frequently discussed already here on Wikipedia. Since you can click "what links here" even for red links, I now realize I could have linked all those pages directly to Scorpia (game journo), and put the information bit on the DAB talk page instead for now. CapnZapp (talk) 12:41, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── In the meanwhile, let me return to what the orange suede sofa said: "[subject] doesn't have her own page but she does have a one-line description on the dab page, which is not an unknown practice" (my emphasis). Thoughts on the bolded part? CapnZapp (talk) 12:41, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

After digging some more, it looks like WP:DABSTYLE and WP:DABRELATED approve of this under specific circumstances. WP:DABSTYLE: "Each bulleted entry should have a navigable (blue) link, normally as the entry itself (see the previous bullet), or in the description if the entry is red-linked or unlinked." WP:DABRELATED: "Include articles only if the term being disambiguated is actually described in the target article. For example, a use of the term "set" is discussed in the article on Volleyball, so Set (disambiguation) legitimately includes "Set, the second contact in volleyball"." In this case, the entry for Scorpia (the journalist) in the dab page links to Computer Gaming World which does discuss Scorpia, albeit briefly. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 21:10, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
You bring up two points. First, your response to my query, and I thank you for that. Secondly and secondarily, you provide ample illustration why the mention of the magazine Scorpia was working for should not be linked, since "the editorial staff included popular writers such as Scorpia" is only the briefest of mention and far from "actually described" in my view. However, to reiterate, that we should unlink CGW should not be taken as support for the stance her entire DAB line should be removed. Again, I support the stance which is "let her remain redlinked on the DAB page until someone creates a full article". Hope this was useful and not too repetitive. Best Regards, CapnZapp (talk) 23:37, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Can we get a definitive list of countries/entities not to link?[edit]

I feel like editors are not linking to many counties and sub national areas that aren't common knowledge to people, for example I've seen Uttar Pradesh and Cambodia unlinked on major articles before. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if over half of the world's population is unable to identify France on a map, even though the guidelines tell us not to link it.--Prisencolin (talk) 02:03, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

France was unilaterally added as an example only recently. I agree it's debatable how we can define "major" or assert, for all readers, what might be said to be well-known and hence not worth linking by some people's rationale (which of course ignores the point that links are there to aid and enable navigation between related pages that contain detailed (ahem) encyclopedic information. The page on France doesn't simply say "France is a country in western Europe, in case you didn't know what it was, which most people do". By that logic, we may as well not even have a page on France at all). In any event, the guideline does of course say that such links are OK if the subject is "particularly relevant to the context in the article" – so, however they are defined, there is in fact no outright bar on such links. There's a lot on this in the archives, and a few hardcore editors who strip out such links from masses of pages with scripts, regardless of context, while declaring vaguely that there is an alleged "consensus" for such actions. N-HH talk/edits 17:23, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm looking at List of box office records set by Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and it appears that literally no country is ever linked in the article, rendering this section to be pretty an indiscriminate list to anybody who didn't already know where these countries are. --Prisencolin (talk) 19:15, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Novelization?[edit]

Is novelization a link-worthy term? I saw an editor linking it, but in my opinion it's a common enough term that a link shouldn't be necessary. Thanks for your thoughts! DonIago (talk) 14:07, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

There is a whole body of scholarship on the concept (see for example the Google Search); this means that the concept has a number of more complicated implications than just being a process of converting a movie or other media into a novel. Our article, doesn't quite do justice for the concept, but we ought to do an overhaul like I did with Novelist or Nautical fiction, but for such a broad topic, thats a huge bit of time. Building up the links to the article, is a good way to get more eyes on it, and in turn creating more interest amongst both our editors and readers in the article. In general, WP:OVERLINK suggests that any article that would clarify for a reader not deeply familiar with the topic, should be done. Sadads (talk) 14:47, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
I see your point, but I question how many readers are going to click the link, much less make any changes, precisely because for most readers the term is straightforward enough that they wouldn't feel they'd have anything to gain by pursuing the link. In other words, I suspect readers will think they're "familiar enough" with the topic, and the link will consequently serve no purpose.
That being said, I admit that having the term linked causes no harm beyond potentially making it look like we're linking an obvious term. But then, that's why I asked the question here. :) DonIago (talk) 15:02, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi DonIago! You might also want to check out Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary ;-) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 00:43, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm aware of that...is that an argument in favor of not linking, then? Sorry, not sure what you're going for. DonIago (talk) 16:48, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure what article this is on but I'd say it should be linked, because "novelization" is a broad concept that may not immediately be understandable to some readers. People may also want to read more about the process of novelization, which is described on that page, and probably not on a page about a movie.--Prisencolin (talk) 19:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)