Wikipedia talk:Redirect

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RFC: Should users be permitted/encouraged to change links via redirects to piped links or direct links?[edit]

This RfC has continued for more than 30 days with the most recent edit more than 30 days old. The consensus opposes blanket encouragement to change redirected links to piped or direct links. Painius  16:08, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should users be permitted/encouraged to change links via redirects to piped links or direct links? A user in the Bypassing redirects thread argues that what-links-here is more useful when all or most links go directly to a page, and that if people routinely changed such links page moves would be less likely to create double-redirects which might be forgotten. Other users have argued that the display of "[Redirected from XXX]" is helpful to a reader who clicks on a link via a redirect, and is not available via a piped link, and that What-links-here actually gives better information by showing how pages have been linked. WP:NOTBROKEN currently advises not changing such links in fairly strong terms, specifically saying "While there are a limited number of cases where this is beneficial, there is otherwise no good reason to pipe links solely to avoid redirects. Doing so is generally an unhelpful, time-wasting exercise that can actually be detrimental. It is almost never helpful to replace redirect with redirect". Should this be changed to permit or even encourage such changes in smoe or all cases, and if so, in which cases? The previous discussion was too small and too polarized to form a consensus. I now request comment from editors more generally on the matter. DES (talk) 11:03, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

  • No/Oppose, per the WP:NOTBROKEN guideline, Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Linking/Archive 16#Editor not seeing the benefit of WP:NOTBROKEN, and the #Bypassing redirects discussion above, I think it's generally best not to bypass redirects. For example, in some cases, an article (such as a medical article) might have WP:Alternative titles listed in the lead or lower, and it might be best to link one of the alternative titles for a particular article instead of linking to the default title. Flyer22 (talk) 11:28, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Clarify. There are times as indicated by this guideline when editors should not be so encouraged, and there are times when they should. Perhaps the guideline should show an example or two when it should be encouraged, such as misspelling/typo redirects, redirects from incorrect names and non-neutral names and so on. Any one or two of these could serve as examples that may be given more detail in the guideline, examples of when a redirect should be bypassed and a direct link is the way to go. Just to bypass a redirect that is not broken for the sole purpose of bypassing the redirect is known as a "trivial edit", an edit that can serve only one purpose: to inflate an editor's edit count. There are "major" edits, there are "minor" edits and about 17 steps below "minor" are the "trivial" edits. Trivial edits, if an editor feels they absolutely must perform them, should only be engaged if other non-trivial edits are necessary on the page. Good working redirects are there for a purpose. They should be used, not bypassed. – Paine  15:21, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Agree with Paine. It is not a black and white use/encourage or don't use/discourage. In cases where there is a legitimate topic that is distinct from the title of the target article, using a redirect may in fact make what links here more effective not less effective, in that an editor can more easily find links that concern the specific topic. But of course misspelling should be corrected. olderwiser 17:07, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • With certain exceptions, I think it should be allowable for the link on the left side of a pipe character to be changed to a direct link. Redirects can often be fine, though, so if someone wants to link San Francisco, California, they would not put [[San Francisco|San Francisco, California]] but could just put [[San Francisco, California]] even though it is a redirect. I disagree with some redirects, such as [[Hopi people|Hopi]] where the text on the right side already is a direct link, and I have a few other reservations as well. Dustin (talk) 17:18, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • One reason to keep redirects is for future-proofing. In the example of [[Hopi people|Hopi]], it is safe to assume that Hopi people will always be about the people, but Hopi might one day have a different primary topic or become a disambiguation page. Allowing the redirect now reduces the possible future maintenance burden. Gorobay (talk) 17:28, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • No/Oppose. Piped links break the connection between what you see on the page and the underlying functionality. They have their uses in cases where all other options are worse, but they should not be resorted to merely to avoid a redirect. There is nothing wrong with redirects, whereas there is something wrong with piped links. --Trovatore (talk) 18:40, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Sub-comment I just now see that you've folded in the issue of changing to a direct link. That's really a separate issue and should be treated separately. Anyway, to me, when you're contemplating changing [[redirect]] to [[target]], there's only one question: Which is the text you want to see in the article? If you want to see redirect on the page then leave it as [[redirect]]; if you'd rather see target then change it to [[target]]. The fact that one of them is a redirect is irrelevant; just go with the better text. But never change [[redirect]] to [[target|redirect]], because that creates a piped link where one is not needed. --Trovatore (talk) 18:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Are people commenting in this RfC making some sort of effort to get onto people for changing links in universal situations? I am going off the word "permitted" here. If so, there is no way I can ever support this. Dustin (talk) 20:31, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Dustin, this is a guideline, which is a "strong suggestion" based on community consensus of how to manage the subject of the guideline, in this case redirects. "Permitted" in this context does not mean that there will be an editor block on those who don't comply – in this context it means "not discouraged", and that is what probably should have been used. "Coulda, woulda, shoulda" and all that. Joys! – Paine  22:29, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
  • No/Oppose. "... to change links via redirects to piped links" [full stop]. Broadly I agree with Flyer, Paine Ellsworth, and Trovatore. "... to change links via redirects to direct links". It may be useful to describe and illustrate some classes wherein such replacement by direct links is good, but even among the good replacements there must be few we should encourage from editors who will make no other contributions. Comment. Where it is destructive that "Redirected from [XXX]" appears at the top of the target page, maybe we should delete the redirect page. --P64 (talk) 20:23, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
    • I'll second that opinion – there are several cases where it is undesirable to have the redirect appear at the top of a page under the page title as "(Redirected from blue link)". From typos to non-neutral names, incorrect names to some shortcuts/aliases, I've felt for a long time that the redirect link should read just that: "(Redirect link)", with no indication as to the exact name of the redirect. – Paine  22:22, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. If there is a problem with the user-interface of 'What links here' and how the redirects are sorted, rather than do what amounts to be a psuedo-hack just here on the English Wikipedia, it is better to make a bug/feature request (see WP:Bugzilla). The issue also affects other Wikis, so we could see if the developers could find a solution. As for double redirects, a list of them is regularly updated at Special:DoubleRedirects, so either a bot or a normal editor can fix them. Zzyzx11 (talk) 22:53, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. Dustin mentioned the idea of changing the link on the left side of the pipe. I think that should be encouraged. On the other hand, cases where I bypassed a simple redirect to a more complicated direct link (which I did quite a lot of) I now see as a foolish mistake. I think it's helpful to distinguish between the two. Also, I think mis-spelled or poorly formatted indirect links should be changed to direct links (and even the policy page says that). For example, I've come across quite a few articles redirecting to a title with two initials, separated with a period, plus a surname. If the article itself has a space between the two initials, the redirect should be changed to a direct link — e.g. A.B. Smith >> A. B. Smith (not a real article —I've made this one up — but it represents a lot of cases which I've fixed up). A third case is the use of official spellings. I edit a lot of Fijian articles. Fijian spellings do not follow English norms — e.g., 'C' is pronounced 'TH'. I've come across British and American editors who don't know that and go by the pronunciation, linking to Thakombau, which redirects to Cakobau (and rightly so, as that is the correct spelling). Nobody in Fiji would recognize the spelling "Thakombau" so the redirect should be changed to a direct link, not left as a redirect. (I've already replaced those ones, but there are many other cases — especially with Fijian place names, flora, fauna, etc). David Cannon (talk) 02:29, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


An RfC has been opened to see if WP:NOTFAQ and WP:NOTHOWTO should or should not apply to redirects. For the discussion, see WT:NOT#RfC: Should we add a footnote to WP:NOTHOWTO/WP:NOTFAQ stating that it does not apply to redirects? -- (talk) 04:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Guidance on NOTBROKEN for piped links[edit]

Greetings, I come to you guys in search of guidance of the NOT BROKEN guideline. So I edit mainly pro wrestling articles and encounter a lot of already piped links, some have a redirect instead of a direct link on the linking side (left). So to illustrate my question I will give you an actual example, one that illustrates most of my link corrections. Article Drago (wrestler) is about a guy who used to be called Alan, then Gato Everready and finally Drago. So the article was created under the name [[Gato Everready]] since that was the common name at the time the article was created. So at the time links to the article would be:

  • [[Gato Everready|Allan]]
  • [[Gato Everready]]
  • [[Gato Everready|Drago]]

Later Drago became his common name and the article moved to [[Drago (wrestler)]]. So while making other edits to articles I made two corrections:

  • [[Drago (wrestler)|Allan]]
  • [[Drago (wrestler)|Drago]]

Not changing the visible text, not adding any piping and leaving Gato Everready alone. But I get hit with a revert stating it is not allowed due to NOT BROKEN. Reading the guideline I believe that revert was a misapplication of the guideline, I am not adding a pipe, the article exists, since it was moved the change reduces future double redirects. I am not seeing how using the ACTUAL article in an existing piped link is a bad thing? Am I missing something here? Thank you in advance for your help.  MPJ-US  22:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

  • So the editor misapplying the guideline just did a buch of edits to fix the piped name, i guess he either has double standards or realised it is not wrong to fix piped text.  MPJ-US  23:28, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 September 2#Katrina Richardson[edit]

The above discussion, which deals with redirects flowing to dab pages, may be of interest. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Article to Category redirect[edit]

Does it (in general) make sense to redirect an article into a category? Just wondering about the common practice within Wikipedia. Thanks! --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 00:58, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

For example(?), given Category:Women writers, redirect Women writers to that target? --P64 (talk) 16:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Yes, we do have some of those; Music hardware is the one that first comes to my mind. See Category:Redirects to category space, which currently has over 800 members. However, a bunch of those are redirects from the CAT: pseudo-namespace. Note that a lot of others redirect to articles beginning "List of...", so first check to see if there's a List of women writers. As there indeed is such a list, it's generally preferable to redirect to the list rather than the category. – Wbm1058 (talk) 16:42, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Question about redirects[edit]

I normally don't really ask questions about redirects if I think that they're rational, but the majority of redirects I make are of the "no duh" type, like full names or alternate book/film titles. This would be my first time really making a redirect of this type for Wikipedia. Basically, I was looking for the name of the first English settlement in Virginia and I decided to go under the general search term of "first settlement in north america". I noted that there were several first settlements out there for various groups, such as the First Dutch settlement in North America (which would redirect to Fort Nassau (North River)) and First Swedish settlement in North America (Fort Christina).

My question is this: I can't be the only person using this search term. I was wondering if it would be OK to create search redirect titles of this type on Wikipedia. I'm also interested in possibly creating a disambiguation page for the general term First settlement in North America, as that would make it easier for people to find a general listing of first settlements (and would provide a link to the colonization page). It would differ from the main article for colonization as it'd be just a disambiguation list page. Of course this second part is something more to bring up at the disambiguation page than anything else.

However since this would be my first time doing something like that with redirects or disambiguations (and especially since it'd be under my LVA account), I figure it's better to ask first. I just figure that if I'm using this search term on Wikipedia, others likely are as well. Tokyogirl79LVA (talk) 14:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

It all sounds like good ideas to me, and you're right about discussion at, say, WT:WPDAB as concerns the dab parts. Painius  22:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Thanks! I'll go ask at DAB and see what they have to say about a potential dab page like this prior to creating the redirects. Tokyogirl79LVA (talk) 13:26, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

archeo-photons/archo-photons/archaeo-photons or archeophotons/archophotons/archaeophotons[edit]

  1. REDIRECT Cosmic microwave background
Neither nor none of those individually, unless mentioned in the article, which none of them are. "Archeophotons" would be my first choice, but only if the term is explained and reliably sourced in the article. Then either "archeo-photons", "archo-photons" or "archaeo-photons" could also redirect as a {{Redirect from modification}}-type search term. Painius  22:39, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Links to deleted redirects[edit]

Suppose that a redirect has been deleted. Should links to the deleted redirect be updated to link to what the target was before deletion? WP:NOTBROKEN no longer applies because the redirect was deleted. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 21:43, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

  • If the redirect was a typo or in a foreign language, then yes. If the redirect was deleted to encourage article creation, then no. If the context of the link is a discussion about the redirect itself, then no. Et cetera. It depends. Gorobay (talk) 02:58, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. Agree with Gorobay – search-purpose redirected links (misspellings, inappropriate titles, etc.) are routinely updated to link directly to their targets, so most of the red links that result from redirect deletion should be left alone as possible article-, project-page- or other-page-creation titles. See WP:REDLINK and also the deletion discussion, because it will shed light on why the redirect was deleted. Painius  19:00, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Should a tool (similar to WP:UNLINK) be written to automate this if this proposal goes through? I agree with Gorobay. It depends on what type the redirect is. Then again, a redirect would not be deleted to encourage article creation. We have {{R with possibilities}} for that. sst 11:06, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Quantum potentiality[edit]

  1. REDIRECT Quantum potential — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:25, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
    Yes check.svg Done Paine  (talk contribs)  02:26, 7 October 2015 (UTC)