Wikipedia talk:Requested moves

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Time to standardize this and create a main-space template for articles listed here[edit]

I know, I know, we haven't done this before, but don't let organizational inertia ("tradition") stop you from realizing that moves are the only major Wikipedia article cleanup activity that does not inform the readers that there is something to discuss on the talk page. Renaming of categories does occur through a notice on the category page. Ditto for the rare case of renaming an image. Deletions, splits, mergers, a bazillion of other clean up notices are there to inform people something is going on, but article renamings (moves) discussions are relegated to talk pages only. For no good reason except "this is how we have always done things". Well, let's change this, in the spirit of standardization of cleanup processes, and common good sense (readers are at least as interested in article's name and discussions as in other cleanup issues). I therefore propose we create a relevant template or two, and encourage their use (or perhaps tie them to some form of bot / script, so that using a RM template on the article would trigger addition of a template to the article, as would it removal). But in case someone bemoans that such automation is too technical, a simple cleanup template "It has been suggested that this article may need to be renamed. A relevant discussion may be found on its discussion page" is the primary thing to consider here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:27, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

See User talk:RMCD bot#Considering adding bot-maintained article-space notices. It's not so much inertia or tradition, but prioritization (too many tasks, too little time, not enough volunteers) that's been holding this up. I'll start working on it, and keep you posted on my progress. I'll note, however, one activity that does not always inform the readers anymore: {{Orphan}} tags which are over a month or two old become invisible, as many complained that they were "article-defacing eyesores" and such. If anyone objects to this, please speak up now, as I'd hate to put a lot of time into it, only to see my implementation be rejected. Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 15:32, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
Just a note that the bot will honor {{nobots}} tags placed in main-space, so the automatically-placed article notices may be suppressed if desired on individual articles, on a case-by-case basis. Don't know how often this option might be used, but it will be available. wbm1058 (talk) 02:32, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
For the record, and as encouragement to wbm1058, I fully support this proposal. — JFG talk 06:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

OK, for the next step in development I will be placing {{User:RMCD bot/subject notice}} tags at the top of some articles. That's just a blank page for now, while I work on the bot's end. Once I have the new bot code working, I'll add the notice to that file. wbm1058 (talk) 08:37, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I've created the {{User:RMCD bot/subject notice}} tag, and after testing this on around a dozen move requests, I'm ready to release it into the wild. There may need to be some minor tweaks to handle more rarely occurring special cases, but basically this is done. The bot will be propagating notices to all open move requests momentarily. For this initial implementation, for multiple-move requests, the notice will only be posted to the article page for the talk page which is hosting the discussion. wbm1058 (talk) 20:57, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

The initial full pass has completed, and all single-move requests should be properly functioning. There's an issue which is causing the notices to be prematurely removed from multi-move requests. Working on the fix now. wbm1058 (talk) 21:15, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

OK, the multi-move issue is fixed, so now Yes check.svg Done.
121 of 123 open requests have subject-space notices on them now. The two that don't:

  • @Wbm1058: Thanks for working on this! This was a wonderful idea. I'd encourage an application for admin-editing rights for full transparency of advertising for RM discussions. -- Tavix (talk) 19:08, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Very nice development indeed, wbm1058, thanks again! — JFG talk 16:47, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
@Wbm1058: Thank you very much for quick implementation. I gather a template like now at Tsarist autocracy is the result? Good job! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:56, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone. Above I said, there may need to be some minor tweaks to handle more rarely occurring special cases, and so far I've seen only one glitch. Template move requests should be sandwiched in <noinclude> ... </noinclude> tags, and the bot needs to remove such template-space notices after the discussion has closed. A patch-fix is on my to-do list. wbm1058 (talk) 13:39, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Reason in move summary[edit]

@Andy M. Wang: Per WP:BRD, I'm taking this to the talk page. I think that the reason should be included in the move summary for multiple reasons:

  1. The current (and old) edit summary is very opaque – you have to click on the permalink (which I've seen truncated in some cases like the recent move war between AaAaAA!!! – A Reckless Disregard for Gravity and AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!! – A Reckless Disregard for Gravity) and then find the request in a potentially long list to have any idea why the move happened
  2. If the requesting user were able to move the page themselves, they would do so with the reason parameter they specified as the edit summary (which might cause summary length issues, but those are not RM/TR's job to fix). The text added by RM/TR (requested by [requester] at WP:RM/TR) is non-essential - the move reason would make sense without it.

Pppery (talk) 01:35, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Pppery refers to Special:Diff/736370743 in which I undo the addition of {{{reason}}} from the edit summary generated automatically for requests at WP:RMT. As I understand it, RMT has always been operating via attribution... there are no technical move req logs; moves are quickly undoable. Pppery's bold suggestion puts {{{reason}}} before the consistent part of the summary complete with attribution and description of technical nature. An unpredictable prefix that would hide it if it were very long. Scenario: the "reason" for Special:Permalink/732888473 is over 200 characters already. Adding the MediaWiki prefix "User X moved page Foo to Bar:" makes the moves even less liekly attributable, i.e. the permalink is likely to be lost and visible only in the title's move log without an apparent character limit (as far as I know).
Now I suppose {{{reason}}} could be added at the end of the summary so that whatever is left can appear in the revision history, while the move log benefits from a cited reason right there.
I have the feeling that people give you ideas, Pppery, so I'd like to add: you are extremely over-eager and enthusiastic, which is really admirable, but please don't act on this yet, and perhaps wait for another to chime in. (Minor nit: consider syncing the sandboxes too) — Andy W. (talk ·ctb) 02:12, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
Here is the point where I disagree. The fact that it was requested at RM/TR is a minor technical thing that should not deprive the actual reason (for the request) of space. Pppery (talk) 12:19, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Is this unintelligible because it is a continuation of a long disagreement spanning multiple pages? Move summaries should always include the reason, preferably including a link to the specific discussion justifying the move. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:14, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
    @SmokeyJoe: This is the extent to the discussion. All technical move summaries already include an attributable permalink. The summaries (until yesterday) had almost always been something similar to: "Requested at WP:RM/TR as an uncontroversial technical move. (permalink)". Pppery added the additional customized user-given reason to the front of the edit summary. If the reason is hundreds of characters long, it will hide the implication of a satisfaction of a technical request (along with an attributable permalink) in the edit summary (which has a character limit). I'm saying that I could support adding {{{reason}}} to the back of the edit summary, which will end up being "Requested by User:Example at WP:RM/TR as an uncontroversial technical move. Specific move reason given by user Example" <-- however much of the move reason will still fit in the space of the edit summary. — Andy W. (talk ·ctb) 06:58, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
  • I'd agree with Andy M. Wang above, but suggest that rather than "Specific move reason given by user Example" we just use "Reason given:" to save space and ensure that more of the reason is readable. Agree that the fact of it being requested as uncontroversial technical move, and link to WP:RM/TR needs to take priority. PamD 15:31, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
    • How about Requested by [requester] at WP:RM/TR: [reason]? Pppery (talk) 15:41, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
      • With "Requested" being the permalink link, I think it's fine (with the way it's phrased, kinds of implies a special action) — Andy W. (talk ·ctb) 15:44, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
        • @Andy M. Wang: I was intending for requested to be the permalink, but wasn't sure how to phrase that. Pppery (talk) 15:47, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
          • As no-one seems to be objecting to the reason at the end, I just changed the move summary to be my proposal above. Pppery (talk) 22:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Page mover#Repairing WP:MALPLACED dab pages[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Page mover#Repairing WP:MALPLACED dab pages. <<< SOME GADGET GEEK >>> (talk) 17:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC) <<< SOME GADGET GEEK >>> (talk) 17:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

RMassist over db-move[edit]

I made some revisions of move how-to pages, explained at Wikipedia talk:Moving a page#Revisions on 16 September 2016. Please follow up there if there are any comments. — Andy W. (talk ·ctb) 00:27, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Request for closure[edit]

i didn't know any other place to put the request. the seven-day period of this discussion will end tomorrow. will an uninvolved user, preferably an admin, close the discussion and state their decision? --HamedH94 (talk) 07:47, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Done. EdJohnston (talk) 14:32, 22 September 2016 (UTC)