Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive10

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Ethnic groups in the Philippines - Population history

I am a little bit baffled about this section in Population history under the “Ethnic groups in the Philippines” article. This history is from Dr. Henry Otley Beyer's theory of waves of migration. This theory is long been debunked by many prehistoric scholars like F. Landa Jocano, Peter Bellwood and Wilhelm Solheim. I am also wondering why many still believe Dr. Beyer's theory. Pls/ update the entire section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gemicat16 (talkcontribs) 09:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Really? Beyer has been debunked? Back in my elementary days his theory was the one in the textbooks. I dunno now. --Howard the Duck 11:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
As far as NPOV is concerned, two or more sides to a story should be presented. Otley's theory says prehistoric migration to the Phils started from the south, while anthropologists nowadays say migration started from the north. I don't think Otley's theory should be debunked. Theories are theories. --Weekeejames 19:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Philippine historians now approve of Peter Bellwood's theory that Filipinos came from Austronesians, and that Malaysians and Indonesians are the ones who came from the Philippines, not vice versa, Genetics, archaeological evidences, cultural analyses, and population genetics confirm this. Otley's theory was discredited and is now unaccepted as part of Philippine history. --User:Matthewprc 11:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

According to a retired professor of Southeast Asian history, a lot of Philippine historians had an utang ng loob for Beyer, so they didn't feel a need to challenge him. Consequently, for the most part this has left things unchanged in textbooks. The current Austronesian theory has been supported by arhaeologists and linguists - Dr. Peter Bellwood of Australian National University is a major proponent to this theory. And while Weekeejames may be right that theories may be theories, Bellwood's theory has the most compelling evidence by far. And the body of evidence continues to grow from various, related, academic fields. A good place to start is the 1995 The Austronesians: Comparative and Historical Perspectives by Bellwood, Tryon, and Fox of ANU. --Chris S. 03:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Theories are not laws. They remain to be theories and can only be debunked by a scientific (empirical) law. Unlike the ancient theory that the sun revolves around the planets of which has long been debunked and proven false by a medieval theory of which is already considered to be a scientific law, Otley's theory still has a possible chance to be proven true despite of all these compelling evidences. That's why I believe that Otley's theory still has to be presented, explained, and compared to other theories in contradiction. --Weekeejames 10:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, of course you're right. A theory is a theory, nothing more. And the outdated theories should have a passing mention kind of like the way people theorized the earth was flat. ;-) --Chris S. 13:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

BTW, regarding all these ethnic groups, Filipino minorities and minority groups articles and templates, would you all be so kind to exclude Zamboangueños from these categories and templates? The Zamboangueño is neither one ethnic group nor a minority group. To be precise, the Zamboangueño is one regional collective group of people. Kelan pa naging minority ang mga Zamboangueños? On the article Ethnic_groups_in_the_Philippines, the Zamboangueño Chavacanos were categorised as "smaller ethnic groups" Waaaaa ang lufet! =( Weekeejames 11:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I think a few months ago all Filipino groups speaking Spanish derived language were under "Chavacano"... then someone changed it to Zamboangueño...--Nino Gonzales 05:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I was in opposition to that. But if only to distinguish the Chabacano varieties of Caviteño, Ternateño and Zamboangueño, I gave in. When I wrote the article Zamboangueño, I meant to refer it to the people of Zamboanga City and not the Chabacano variety. In Zamboanga City, when we talk about our language, we generally call it "Chabacano" and when we talk about the people, we call ourselves "Zamboangueños". Back to the ethnic groups of people in the Philippines topics, I certainly disagree that Zamboangueños are a "smaller ethnic group" and a "minority". This is all way too wrong and innacurate. --Weekeejames 06:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Why don't you correct it? Btw, I think the arrangement shouldn't be biggest to smallest. I think it is better to arrange from north to south (or south to north), then the groups dispersed throughout the country (like Chinese, Spanish and tribal groups).--Nino Gonzales 06:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I did edit the list of minorities in the Philippines and the Template:Smaller ethnic groups in the Philippines template. I dunno if I should edit the ethnic groups in the Philippines article; I would be tempted to edit large chunks of it. That article needs a major overhaul. Also, why would you think the arrangement should be from north to south? Why not south to north? Bakit ba pag Philippines, lagi na lang ang mga taga north ang una? It's so annoying. :P --Weekeejames 07:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Err, why not east to west, or west to east? It would be a matter of one's POV. --Weekeejames 07:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Go ahead. Even south-west to north-east is better than largest to smallest.--Nino Gonzales 01:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
This sounds like the East Coast-West Coast hiphop war hehehe... --Howard the Duck 06:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
If arrangement by direction is POV, why not arrange it alphabetically instead? --bluemask (talk) 07:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Kulintang a FA candidate

The article Kulintang is currently a featured article nominee.

The article was currently under peer review but considering the comments of many that it should be featured, I decided to self-nom for feature status. If you believe you have any ideas for improving it, level them here. You're help getting another Filipino article featured would be much appreciated. Thanks - PhilipDM 10:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm nice work! I was wondering, why is the History section in the last? Shouldn't it be the first or one of the firsts? Berserkerz Crit 11:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I was thinking about putting it first but I also realize... I think a reader would want to know what this is before going into it's history. Where and what seem more important than when in this case. Then again I could be wrong. PhilipDM 23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Also, I can't read the green text on the map, or may I just have bad eyesight. Otherwise, this should breeze through, unless there are some bad grammatical errors. --Howard the Duck 11:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
If you open it up and read it very closely it says.... Chalempung... doesn't work well further away though... PhilipDM 23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Gamelan? Also, I noticed referencing is very heavy. This is not bad but for some nit picky FA reviewers, I anticipate they will bring this up. Although for me, heavy referencing is better than light referencing. Berserkerz Crit 13:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Yea. Indon brought up the same issue. But as I told him... it's much easier to work from a article with a bunch of references than none at all. To fix it.. all one has to do is delete some and move around others. And yes, Gamelan is the bigger brother of kulintang tradition of the Philippines. PhilipDM 23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


Can I request for a picture? I'm not really good with images. I'm hoping that we could improve this article further as this animal is a unique and endangered Philippine treasure. Lenticel 01:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Bisaya eraser

This guy ( has been deleting large chunks of content relating to Bisaya. Help wanted in cleaning up.

He is of the party which thinks Visayans should not be lumped together. It is really just a matter of opinion whether or not they should be lumped together in Wikipedia. But it is better organized if they are. (If they aren't, then we should break up Moro and Tribal groups as well... then we have to create individual sections for the other Visayan ethnic groups, which are ~20. I'm talking here if the Ethnic groups in the phil article.)

If you are reading this,, please discuss first before deleting. Thanks.--Nino Gonzales 05:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC) --Nino Gonzales 05:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

That happened on the Philippines article too, didn't revert, though. --Howard the Duck 06:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Ilonggos, Warays, etc. have always been called Visayans. There are plenty of verified sources for this. I have a copy of 1977 work by an American linguist who specializes in Visayan languages (and is fluent in Aklanon and Tagalog) by Dr. R. David Zorc. He lists 36 known Visayan tongues as well as their alternate names.

For Hiligaynon, he lists only Ilonggo. However the three varieties of Waray-Waray all have Binisaya as an alternate name. Other groups that he lists as having Binisaya as an alternate name are Alcantaranon, Bantayan Visayan, Guimarasnon (this refers to 'both Hiligaynon and Kinaray-a!), the Cantilan dialect of Surigaonon, Kawayan Visayan (Negros Occidental), Masbateño, Naturalis dialect of Surigaonon, Pandan dialect of Kinaray-a, Semirara Visayan, Santa Teresa Visayan (of Brgy. Sta. Teresa, Magsaysay, Occ. Mindoro), Romblomanon, and the Jaun-Jaun dialect of Surigaonon. It would not surprise me that Binisaya would also refer to languages NOT listed by Dr. Zorc.

Also, in the 2001 work Facts about the World's Languages Dr. Zorc writes in the Hiligaynon article:

The name Visayan was the Spanish rendition of the adjective bisayá’ referring to a person or item from the central Philippine islands and the verb binisayá’ meaning ‘to speak Bisayan.’ It applies to 36 different speech varieties, the most well-known of which include Cebuano, Waray, Hiligaynon, and Aklanon. Together, these groups represent over 40% of the Philippine population, almost double that of any other language in the archipelago.

I hope this helps. --Chris S. 03:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Chris. I'm glad I was wrong. It isn't a matter of opinion after all whether or not Visayans could be group together in one heading.--Nino Gonzales 06:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Its alright to lump these so-called 'binisaya' groups into one group known as bisaya or visayan BUT only in the linguistical aspect and not in the 'ethnicity' context. In the article ethnic groups in the Philippines, the same criteria was used to lump these groups into one group called bisaya. This is certainly wrong. According to the article, the criterias are based on religion, common ancestry and language. Culture is not even considered a criteria. The Surigaonons or the Boholanos for example had different pre-historic cultures than the Cebuanos. Why lump them altogether as one bisaya group? I think the term "bisaya' in the socio-cultural context has been a stereotype in the Philippines. Just because one speaks Boholano for example, people (especially in the north) would right away call them 'bisaya' to mean one belongs to that group of people in central and southern Philippines (as one generic ethnic group) without even realizing that the bisaya they are talking about is just one mere linguistical aspect. In other words, the Surigaonons defnitely cannot be called bisaya in the sense that they do not share the same culture with the Cebuanos or Boholanos for that matter. Yes, they are bisaya because that's what the linguists say (they share the same linguistical roots) and they share the same geographical locations. But as far as ethnicity is concerned, grouping them as one altogether would be disputable. I think that's the point the bisaya eraser is trying to drive at. Even if linguistical factors are to be considered, I wouldn't even group them altogether as bisaya. Oo as alternative names, pwedeng tangapin yan (sabi ng mga linguists, eh). Pero to categorise them as one group, that's another thing. Even then, may punto si bisaya eraser when he wrote "Hiligaynon, Waray-Waray and Cebuano are mutually unintelligible". --Weekeejames 12:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the term "Bisaya" is valid as it is. Language, religion, and common ancestry falls under the umbrella of "culture" so I guess that's a point and besides another aspect of defining an ethnic group is self identification so as long as Ilonggos, Warays, Cebuanos, Aklanons, and etc. conisder themselves as "Bisaya" then they are "Bisaya". --23prootie 22:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
True, but only in the linguistical context. Culture is rather broad that it is impossible to classify the Tausogs, for example, as 'Bisaya' in the "multi-lingual ethnic" context as having shared ancestry, religion, and history. You can't lump these groups altogether as one Bisaya ethnic group just because they have one common, shared linguistical aspect as decided upon by linguists. You gotta consider all aspects. To classify them as one social group according to their languages only is narrow. The subject of "ethnicity" in the Philippines is rather complex and complicated that this topic should be undertaken with serious cautiousness with rather well-researched materials from different sources (linguists, historians, sociologists, anthropologists, archeologists, etc). The Ilongos, Warays, Cebuanos, Aklanons surely must have had different ancestors, different beliefs and ways of worshipping their gods and deities, and must have had spoken so much differently from each other. They aren't even mutually intelligible these days! --Weekeejames 05:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, Weekeejames. Tinatamad akong kunin yung aking mga anthro textbooks from last year, but I do recall that a sense of "oneness" and "belonging" as well as cultural traits are considered part of an ethnic group. I mean, an ethnic group is all about culture and self-identification to that culture essentially. In any case, it is clear that many Visayans feel they are connected and label themselves as such.
Now, one thing that we must keep straight is that there are people who are considered for linguistic reasons should not be considered Visayans for ethnic/cultural criteria - and I believe this is the point that you were getting at, and if that's the case I agree with you.. The Tausugs are a prime example. They may speak a Visayan language, but they don't consider themselves as such. In fact, Bisaya means "Christian Filipino" in Tausug. Another example are the the people who speak Visayan languages in Sorsogon province and perhaps Masbate in Bicol. They consider themselves first and foremost Bicolanos or Sorsoganons.
These are things to consider when writing the article that Visayan has different meanings based on the perspective be it ethnic, linguistic, geographic, and political. Some examples... Cebuanos, Aklanons, Ilonggos, Hamtikanons, and Warays are Visayans in all those perspectives. A Tausug and a Sorsoganon is Visayan in only linguistic terms. Someone from Cagayan de Oro is Visayan by ethnicity and their language. Abaknons from Capul Island in Samar are politically and geographically Visayan but their language is Sama-Bajaw and I don't know if they consider themselves Visayans (I suspect they do). And people of Palawan have only been politically Visayan for not even two years yet! And I dont't think Palawan has ever been considered Visayan geographically! You get my point. Oh, this would make some kind of lovely Venn diagram, di ba? ;-)
By the way - I think that since this is the English Wikipedia that the name should be Visayan instead of Bisaya. --Chris S. 05:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Other points:

  • The identity of Bisaya came before its geopolitica usage (Check Fr Alcinas Historia de las Islas y Indios de Bisaya... there's a new English translation)
  • They identify themselves as Bisaya (the linguists are talking about their language, not their identity)
  • Everyone, I'm sure, has different "pre-historic cultures". The ancestors of the "English People"--Britons, Saxons, Normans, etc--have, I'm sure, have different "pre-historic cultures."
  • The similarity in history and culture, it seems, is more than the difference
    • pre-1521: animist, datu, agricultural + some trade
    • colonial era: christian, part of the Phil Spanish colony
    • 20th century: part of the RP state
  • There are other ethnic groups which have multiple languages

--Nino Gonzales 05:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Oo Chris. Yung example sa mga Tausogs (this group is an excellent example) and you do understand the point I am trying to drive at (it is really more on the socio-cultural aspect rather than the linguistics or geography). Now the Tausogs are just one example in one aspect. There are other groups and other aspects (to be considered) too. The Venn diagram is an execellent diagram to show how these all go about. But just because a small part of me is bisaya doesn't mean I am altogether a bisaya. That would be a narrow concept of what bisaya or visayan is. Also to Nino, while the idea of more similarities is significant, its actually the difference among the many differences that makes everything different. --Weekeejames 06:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
The Tausugs, btw, were not included in the Bisaya section. "the difference among the many differences that makes everything different"--sorry, I do not understand this. Could you explain. Also, I started a discussion in the ethnic groups in the phil page on this... the anon doesn't seem to know how to use talk pages yet, so I just copied and pasted his edits...--Nino Gonzales 06:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I didn't mean it to be too novelty. In other words, you don't simply look at the big picture to try to explain everything that makes you and I similar. You have to zoom in to the smaller details too to explain few things that makes you and I different, and that is actually what makes it more significant. Although in the ethnic groups in the Philippines article it does not explicitly say that Tausogs are part of the Bisaya group, there is a link in that subsection leading to multilingual ethnic group where it says the Tausogs speak Visayan language. Of course this will lead to conclusion that Tausogs belong to the bisaya ethnic group where the language criteria will be applicable. I just thought the Tausog was one fine example in this discussion. I try to bring it to this tamabayan page discussion because I believe there are few other ethnicity articles and templates out there involved that need some fine tuning. Like Zamboangueños too. We have been categorised as an ethnic group, and worst - a "minority" group. --Weekeejames 07:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, please go ahead and edit boldly... we could all use some fine tuning... btw, I don't know if someone has edited it in the meantime, but when I wrote about the Tausugs under the Bisaya section and the Bisaya article (I think a year ago), it was to explain your point--that some ethnic groups speak a Visayan language but do not consider themselves Bisaya, the Tausug being an example.--Nino Gonzales 07:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Legislative districts of Maguindanao and Legislative districts of Surigao del Norte

Just an FYI: I called COMELEC's Education and Information Division and asked which municipalites/cities now comprise Maguindanao and Surigao del Norte's districts. Since COMELEC Resolution 7813 states Maguindanao and Surigao del Norte will still have 2 legislative districts despite the carving out of Shariff Kabunsuan and Dinagat Islands from them, respectively, as such, they are now re-grouped:

Surigao del Norte:

  1. 1st District: Burgos, Dapa, Del Carmen, General Luna, Pilar, San Benito, San Isidro, Santa Monica, Socorro
  2. 2nd District: Surigao City, Alegria, Bacuag, Claver, Gigaquit, Mainit, Malimono, Placer, San Francisco, Sison, Tagana-an, Tubod


  1. 1st District: Cotabato City
  2. 2nd District: Ampatuan, Buluan, Datu Abdullah Sangki, Datu Anggal Midtimbang, Datu Paglas, Datu Piang, Datu Saudi-Ampatuan, Datu Unsay, Gen. S. K. Pendatun, Guindulungan, Mamasapano, Mangudadatu, Pagagawan, Pagalungan, Paglat, Pandag, Rajah Buayan, Shariff Aguak, South Upi, Sultan sa Barongis, Talayan, Talitay.

Take note though, 1st District of Maguindanao even if its comprised only of Cotabato City is still called Maguindanao's first district since Cotabato City is not yet a highly-urbanized city. Scorpion prinz 09:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

It'll be nice if someone comes up with a blank Philippines map of municipalities so that we can color it, hehe. --Howard the Duck 09:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
NAMRIA has one. you need to register though, go to Data Center and then Metadata browser. Scorpion prinz 09:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I remember a Philippine Daily Inquirer article about Didagen Dilangalen running for Congressman (of Shariff Kabunsuan) mentioning that Cotabato is part of the lone district of Shariff Kabunsuan. This is really confusing me. --Sky Harbor 20:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
You may check though with the PDI COMELEC, they can fax you that information I obtained from them. I guess this is more official than PDI's report. Scorpion prinz 00:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

controversial quotes

I am asking anyone or all to respond to this! I am still absorbing, and/or stalling? heheheh! --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 17:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

He's really taking it to heart to be the Boses ng kabataan sa Senado hehehehe. bothersome though. Well he didn't take an engineering course, hence. Scorpion prinz 17:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk pages aren't discussion forums, you people can use PEX if you'd want to. --Howard the Duck 17:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
What's PEX? Berserkerz Crit 17:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC) --Howard the Duck 02:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the late, late, late response, I know some people were waiting for this. I will be posting my thoughts at the talk page of the Chiz Escudero article, so if you can't find it there, it means that I'm still writing it. Thanks! --- Tito Pao 04:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Talk Page Template

Do you have a Wikiproject Philippines template that usually appears on the talk page of an article within the project's scope? I haven't been seeing any while surfing Philippines-related articles. Shrumster 05:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

You can use Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/notice - fully equipped with ratings assessments. (Perhaps that can be moved to the Template namespace...) --Howard the Duck 07:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Paring Bol-anon Article for deletion nomination

Unencyclopedic, a directory of Roman Catholic priests in a particular geographic area. I guess if I had to pick a criteria for deletion, it would be WP:ORG or WP:NOT#IINFO. (As an aside, I'm probably going to Hell for nominating this article for deletion.) RJASE1 Talk 06:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

If there are no objections from the Filipino Wikipedia community, I will tag this {{db-author}} and hope that this will find its best place in the Cebuano Wikipedia. --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 11:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Ahm Back

Sorry for the long hiatus. toomany things to do. I'll be back up this summer. I'll just finish classes. I'll have to do a lot of catching up perhaps?- Justox dizaola 15:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back? Hehe seriously welcome back. Anyway, I remember Pinay06 (or was it Titopao) reminding us about WP's policy on minors and too much personal details, seeing your userpage, maybe you might want to update yourself with that. Calling Pinay06 or Titopao for the relevant link topic or whatever. Berserkerz Crit 16:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Help with Jollibee article

Hi guys. It'd be cool if we all could collaborate to bring the Jollibee article up to GA/FA status. While it's not really an interesting topic for me, I was thinking if there's one iconic Filipino restaurant/fast food place, it would be that. And right now, it sorely needs attention. So, is the community up to it? (No, I'm not affiliated with the company...honestly, I prefer to eat McDonald's myself. :) ) Shrumster 05:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Oui! ibig sabihin kailangan ako. I am very, matakaw. Justox dizaola 11:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Philippines political divisions

I kinda changed the layout of the template, if it doesn't look good feel free to rv it. I'm just wondering though i think it'll look better if everything is centered? I dunno how to do it. Ü Scorpion prinz 08:32, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I edited the template to center everything. I hope it's the way you like it. I also shortened a bit the width of the body so that it looks a lil better. --Weekeejames 12:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Comelec on fire

The other day I went to Comelec library to get info about previous elections as part of my Wikipedia research. Since its late afternoon, I decide to go back the next day. Then I was surprised that the building is burnt into ashes. Now my research is incomplete. :( --Exec8 18:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Not only your research is incomplete but the Filipino people's hope for a clean elections. F**K F**K F**K I really really am angry at Philippine politics. Berserkerz Crit 18:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Lol, someone should put that in the Comelec article, if it exists. The world must know what happens in this country, through any means necessary. Shrumster 21:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
The library and records sections were burned in the fire but Abalos said that there are no important documents burned. He also ask God's forgiveness for the evil minds that think that the fire is a move to rig the elections. Somebody ought to fire their spin doctor. Lenticel 00:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
What important COMELEC documents do you need? I had photocopied tons of materials from the COMELEC Records and Statistics division several months back. I'm thinking of selling these to them if they dont have copies of it anymore. lol..kidding. I have election results from 1946 to present, if i'm not mistaken. Scorpion prinz 01:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Requested move:

Sineserye->Sineserye Presents, then redirect sineserye to teleserye. Thanks! --Howard the Duck 08:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Done! TheCoffee 16:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it's reverted, again. argh. --Howard the Duck 09:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Filipino people

Hi guys, I am requesting your assistance at Filipino people. I'm involved with two young Americans (AFAICT) in a content dispute involving the addition of "Hispanic" in the "related ethnic groups" field of the infobox. Ba't laging Kano ang kaaway ko sa mga Philippine-related articles? ;-) In any case, if you wish to help please see the talk page and the edit history of the article in question. Thanks. --Chris S. 12:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

What's the main problem? To include Hispanics or not? Berserkerz Crit 13:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Sumuko na yata. Sayang, gumaganda na nga yung mga arguments niya (sort of)--Lenticel 06:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Hindi ako sumuko. Naghahanap lang ako ng reliable sources bago ko baguhin yung infobox na yun. --Chris S. 00:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Hindi ikaw. Yung Kano. Ibig kung sabihin sa mas maganda eh mas "civil" na yung replies niya. Panget kasi yung mga arguements niya. Bigyan ko lang siya ng tips para gumanda naman yung discussion pero di naman yata niya sinunod tapos bumalik na naman siya sa dating gawi niya. Mas immature pa yata sa kin yun eh. --Lenticel 03:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I gave my arguments in the article's talk page. There is no such thing as 'hispanic' in the Philippines in the 'ethnicity' context. You don't based the langauge criteria alone in this aspect. As I was arguing all along, language (or surnames, for that matter) is NOT solely the criteria to create an ethnic group. There is a big difference being in that state of 'hispanized' (as in Latin America) and the process of 'hispanicized' (which we sometimes tend to do it here in Wikipedia on Filipino-Spanish related articles and topics). Tayong mga Filipino, hindi tayo 'hispanics' kahit gustuhin man natin o kahit feel man natin mga wannabees. Bring back Spanish in the college curriculum first before we dream of being hispanics. 300 years of Spanish colonialism is not enough for us to brand ourselves as 'hispanics'. Weekeejames 12:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
By the way, even if culture is an added criteria, the Philippines still does not consider itself as 'hispanic'. In Zamboanga City (a former Spanish stronghold), within the the Tausogs, the Yakans, the Subanons, the Samals and other indegenous ethic tribes, you hardly see any Spanish influences in their culture. Maybe a bit because of modern-day technology, but their ethnicity remains un-influenced. You just cannot generalize a 'hispanic' ethnic group in the Philippines because it's simply non-existent. Sabi ko na nga ba talaga. Etong 'ethnicity' concept in some Philippine-related articles, talagang disputable. I know it involves several articles. The latest is the Filipino people article. We all should really be careful writing articles in the 'ethnicity' concept. Otherwise, it simply violates Wikipedia's policy in NPOV. Pag disputable, ibig sabihin, the neutrality of the article is a question mark. Weekeejames 12:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Philippines Most Corrupt in Asia

With a score of 9.40 (10 being the most corrupt and 0 as the least), RP has bested both Indonesia and Thailand (8.03) as the most corrupt country in Asia. This statement is from the Political and Economic Risk Consultancy group.--Lenticel 23:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It would be good to assign a date to that citation. These things fluctuate. --Ancheta Wis 03:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

According to the article in the Philippine Daily Inquirer [1], the info was released yesterday by PERC to Agence France Presse. Last year was 7.80. A chart about the corruption trends in selected Asian Countries can be seen on the front page of the inquirer today. --Lenticel 04:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

more data could be found here [2]--Lenticel 04:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Why am I not surprised? Anyway, which article(s) do we stick the data in? Shrumster 07:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

You people can also add this on Talk:Philippines, there's an international rankings section there waiting to be developed. --Howard the Duck 09:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I copied the entire discussion and inserted it to your discussion in Talk:Philippines.--Lenticel 00:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Did you know?

Did you know that the Wikipedia Cebuano is composed mainly of bot-generated stubs? Cebuano tops Tagalog and ranked as No. 31 with 32,520 articles while Tagalog is on the 80th with 5,494. Please see the List of Wikipedias.
Fddfred talk 11:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Map inc

This user created a bunch of hoax articles in the past few days. He's the one responsible for creating the hoax DZUP article. Please help me verify those articles especially the provincial radio stations he created since I am not familiar with those... thanks! -Danngarcia 19:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

This'll be tough since our radio at home can only pick up stations from Metro Manila, Pampanga and Baguio... --Howard the Duck 04:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Need help

That guy recently created new hoax articles, at least on NCR FM radio, and I'm suspecting all of his/her edits are bogus too. Can the admins check it out, and if possible ban this user? --Howard the Duck 18:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: According to his/her user page, he/she was indefinitely blocked from Wikipedia not because of his hoax article, but his/her username sounds like a name of an organization. (see Inappropriate usernames).--Danngarcia 16:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Ibang usapan na 'yan (that's another topic). And take note that he was even able to make threats on the site (as in, verbatim, "SEND IT BACK OR I'LL KILL YOU!! LET ME EDIT SOME THINS OR I'LL KILL YOU!!!!!!!"). Tsk tsk tsk. --- Tito Pao 19:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Review of Articles of Incorporation

As part of getting Wikimedia Philippines moving forward, I am now asking anyone and everyone who would be willing to conduct a review of the WMPH Articles of Incorporation and make suggestions on what to change, or to add and/or delete parts of the Articles. After this, I can move onto the by-laws. --Sky Harbor 13:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Batangas needs to be cleaned

Someone inserted the Batangan vocabulary in the article. Scorpion prinz 09:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The language stuff can go to the Tagalog language article. --Howard the Duck 11:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the stuff may be copyrighted.. lifted from another website. --Chris S. 03:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
How about a Batangueño article similar to Boholano.-- 23prootie 12:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Batangan instead if it will be in English. Scorpion prinz 16:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
To make it more in line with other articles about dialectal, how about Batangas Tagalog. There is American English and Quebec French, etc. --Chris S. 18:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm for that, just have Batangan redirected to it too. Scorpion prinz 05:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. I'm waiting for the day that a genie grants me free time to make the Marinduque Tagalog article. ;-P --Chris S. 12:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Done, might need some cleaning. — scorpion prinz 02:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

new article

Please help make Estefania Aldaba-Lim better! 21:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

added refs and stub tag. A great person should have a better article--Lenticel 00:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Congrats to Chris S. for being a finalist in the Philippine Blog Awards!

See this page under the Socio-political category. Kudos! --seav 15:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh wow, thanks; I didn't think it'd go this far! I should write another blog entry soon, hah. --Chris S. 18:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Are you going to the awarding ceremony in Makati this March 31? Probably not because you're in the States. :) --seav 01:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
You treat us to a barbeque or something... --Howard the Duck 02:42, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Congrats in advance, whether you win it or not. With Pinoy blogs almost becoming dime a dozen, being recognized in something like this is already an honor ;-) --- Tito Pao 07:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't even know there was going to be an awarding ceremony. I'd totally go if I could. --Chris S. 12:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! Ü Scorpion prinz 14:03, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Tol, congrats. punta ka! Let me know how i can help. Email me so we can exchange phone numbers. Sige na 'tol. Punta ka. I am sooooooo proud of you! --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 14:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Ate P. The awards ceremony is on the 31st. Even if I could afford the trip, I wouldn't have time to obtain a passport. Besides, I'm totally unprepared. I've not been to the Philippines since 1989, I'd have to visit the whole Philippines para dumalaw sa mga kamag-anak ko roon. Not to mention to taking requests on what to put inside a balikbayan box. hehe ;-P --Chris S. 05:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah! Its a great way that we could group together and plan for the future of Pinoy Wikis. --Exec8 16:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Am I smelling a WP EB?? =D Berserkerz Crit 16:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Why not, buko nut? ;-) Actually, a Wikipedian will already be there at the awarding night. To be precise, one of the judges =) --- Tito Pao 02:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Congrats! You're the Man! I saw this so late, busy with work.--Jondel 02:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Congrats! You deserve not only the nomination, but the award itself! --Weekeejames 02:18, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations. --Ancheta Wis 02:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, thanks guys. Ang sobrang bait ninyo. No need for the fuss. hehe. --Chris S. 05:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Sayang tol, at di ka na punta! But this is already a feather in the cap of ALL of us Filipinos. Salamat 'tol, for the gift of you to the Filipino community, and the blogging community as well. Ipagpatuloy ang work with the little check mo na ang ? hehehehe Ingat, tol, chat uli tayo ha? this weekend. Or better still, i will email you my cp so we can talk? --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 09:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind, but you have an article on the proposed Tagalog Wikinews. You can find it here (in writing as of this time). --Sky Harbor 01:53, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh my gulay! I've become Wikinotable already. LOL So am I not understanding the importance of the Philippine Blog Awards? Is it really a big thing there? --Chris S. 21:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
"Big thing", at least for most of the online Netizens. Besides, familiar names in the media are already into blogging as well (among them are Inquirer's Manolo Quezon III and ABC-5's Jove Francisco). Btw, I've updated the information on the Wikinews article...not one, but two (AFAIK) Wikipedians are sitting as judges :-) --- Tito Pao 23:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I only know one, not At least I now know Manolo Quezon is a judge. --Sky Harbor 01:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Magpainom ka naman... ng coke!--Lenticel 03:05, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, may 1 coke ang bawat Pinoy wiki na makapunta sa awards ceremony. Just see Titopao after. basta may picture lang with MLQ3 ha? hehehehe. Titopao, check ur talk page and coordinate with our mutual friend at Ayala F. Balita in email pls. --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 06:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
To all, pls magpa head count na dito so we know how many coke soda we will prepare after the Blog Awards Night Ceremonies with matching pic with MLQ3 ha? and Chris S. award, and the owner of WordPress. Sign your name after this thread. Thanks. BTW, Lenticel, puede ka ma mag help pass out the coke or coordinate this? Send me wiki email pls re your availability, or leave a msg in my talk page. Thanks again... --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 21:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify...I didn't say that Matt Mullenweg would be coming to Manila for the Phil. Blog Awards (not that I'm aware if he's coming or not, just that there's no news about it). What I did mention is that his company, Automattic, is one of the major sponsors (if I'm not mistaken, they sent in additional funds for the event). Hope this clears up any expectations for those who might be waiting to see him. --- Tito Pao 00:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Another clarification: no single person "owns" Wordpress in the same way as nobody "owns" the MediaWiki software. Both Wordpress and the MediaWiki software were created by a community of open-source programmers, so saying that the "owner" of Wordpress would be coming over to Manila would be taken to mean that all of these programmers (who come from all over the world) would be here (that's a different story, though). Matt Mullenweg is the founding programmer of Wordpress, but that doesn't mean he owns it; however, he owns a company that offers Wordpress-related services. --- Tito Pao 02:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Titopao, Gotcha, loud and clear. hehehehe! So, where are the answers to my question? I mean the signature of those who are attending the awards ceremony of my favoritest utol, Dalubwika. hehehehe--Ate Pinay (talkemail) 02:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Congatz. 'Ay huli na pala!- 23prootie 11:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, Chris S.! Sayang di ka pupunta tol ;) Would've liked to meet Pinoy wikipedians in person. I'll be there to support my GF, who's also a finalist for the Tech category. Good luck to both of you! I hope both of you win the grand prizes for your respective categories! :D Malaking karangalan din para sa Pinoy Wikipedia community. --- Corsarius 18:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Cagayan de Oro to elect 2 House reps at large?

I don't get this maybe you do, COMELEC Resolution 7837, refer also to [3] and [4]. — scorpion prinz 02:36, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

RA 9371 is finally being implemented dividing Cagayan de Oro City into two districts. That's how I see it. --Sky Harbor 08:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Tagalog Wikinews

Please vote for the establishment of the Tagalog Wikinews. Finally, we'll have reliable Tagalog-language news on the Internet. You can sign your support (if you're willing to contribute or are willing to back up the project) here. --Sky Harbor 07:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

My only complain is that there is a so few (if ever) reliable news sources written in Tagalog (or Filipino depending on your POV). Sigh. --bluemask (talk) 10:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean by this, bluemask? News sources, whether people, places or things, can be from other languages; the writing form is just in Tagalog. News sources are the raw materials; the news articles in Tagalog is the finished product. So what's the apprehension? --Weekeejames 11:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
We don't need to use exclusively Tagalog news sources; we can use English-language media and translate them into Tagalog, like with certain articles now. --Sky Harbor 13:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I would also like to add that the Tagalog Wikinews test is available here. --Sky Harbor 14:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
We wouldn't really need sources since its news, and journalists don't research for news on the web, unless you're this guy, hehehe. --Howard the Duck 15:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
But would we really have full-time Wikinews journalists? That's why its another option to summarize the news. --Sky Harbor 15:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Not really full-time journalists, of course anyone can write there as long s/he can speak the language. --Howard the Duck 16:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
There are plenty of news sources, I know. It is just, well, if I want to check out news stories written in Tagalog to see the writing style for inspiration, I am disappointed. Well, this is just my POV. --bluemask (talk) 16:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes unfortunately, what you say is true. However, if you were in the Philippines, grab a tabloid or listen to news on the radio and tv for inspiration. Basically, news-writing style is the same regardless of what language or medium you use. The only difference is whether you are writing in the 'straight' news form or the 'feature' form. Tabloids should not be underestimated. There are plenty of good Tagalog writers in tabloid sheets as much as there are in broadsheets. Good luck. --Weekeejames 11:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
It's been awhile since I last wrote a tagalog news lol. Take a look, bluemask [Inquirer news] and [Wikinews]. I know you can do better than that. --Weekeejames 12:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind, but I did some cleanup on the article. But the good thing is that it is on the front page. --Sky Harbor 02:15, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
No, not at all. That's the spirit of wikipedia in wikinews hehehe. Oks nga yung edition mo. Prinaktis ko lang talaga yun. I have been observing that English words are infiltrating Tagalog news as I watch ABS-CBN news and current affairs newscasts on TFC. But it is ok. There are so-called editorial policies which sometimes tend to be lenient with language (but not grammar) in favor of bringing the news fast to all four corners of the community or society or the masses. --Weekeejames 14:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Then again, most Tagalog-language print news media is in the form of tabloids. --Sky Harbor 16:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
There used to be a Tagalog broadsheet, it's gone now. --Howard the Duck 16:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Despite the language differences, I wonder now if Wikinews can obtain media accreditation from the International Press Center (a branch of the Office of the Press Secretary). The problem is that Wikinews lacks the hierarchy for such accreditation (if Wikimedia Philippines comes to fruition, I suppose, but I don't know). --Sky Harbor 23:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Zamboanga City and the Zamboanga del Sur template

I do not know why Scorpion Prinz insists on putting the Zamboanga del Sur template on the Zamboanga City article. I, a Zamboangueño, do not really care whether Zamboanga City is included in that template or not. It's not relevant. This has been discussed at length in the past. Zamboanga del Sur doesn't have anything to do with the independent chartered city of Zamboanga and vice-versa. The only truthful fact is that Zamboanga City gave Zamboanga del Sur a name and nothing else! The Indy Philippine cities template is more relevant to the Zamboanga City article than the Zamboanga del Sur template. If you all read the Zamboanga City article carefully, the first paragraph gives emphasis to the city as a chartered city and not somewhere else in the article. It's something we Zamboangueños are proud of being one of the first in the country and something we have enjoyed and continue to do so. --Weekeejames 12:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

First, we should agree that we should standardize all provincial navig templates. We that said I propose the following options:
You add your own options to the list. --Howard the Duck 14:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for the fuzz. =( — scorpion prinz 14:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
My preference would be towards Howard the Duck's first option, because it seems (to me) the easiest and simplest to implement. Just put a footnote in the template saying the city is politically independent. That's what the NSCB does. Their page for Zamboanga del Sur includes Zamboanga City. This is an official government site... The two are not as completely unassociated as Weekeejames suggests. TheCoffee 15:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Zamboangueños know better than the ignorant and idiotic employees of some government agencies.Just because the NSCB publishes wrong information and it's an official government agency does not mean it is correct and should be followed. --Weekeejames 15:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
BTW TheCoffee, it's not only significant that the Zamboangueños know better about their city and themselves than the idiots of NSCB, they are actually doing something important about it! This press release article comes from the Phil Info Agency (Zambo. City), another gov't agency and one that I believe is not as stupid as the statistics agency. --Weekeejames 09:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Basing on RA 7160, is my assessment right? I'd come up with a proposal for templates to fix the confusion I recreated:
Type of city Independent of province Votes for provincial officials1
Highly urbanized city
Depends on charter
Independent component city
Component city
^1 Governor, vice-governor, board members (Congressional representation does not affect the city's independence from or being part of the province). — scorpion prinz 15:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Wait, how can a city that is independent from the province votes for provincial officials? Are there any examples? --Howard the Duck 16:04, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Mandaue City and Lucena City are classified as HUCs (plus if Lapu-Lapu City ratifies its elevation to an HUC), but still elects provincial officials[5]. RA 7160 affords them such privilege, Section 452 last paragraph provides: Qualified voters of cities who acquired the right to vote for elective provincial officials prior to the classification of said cities as highly-urbanized after the ratification of the Constitution and before the effectivity of this Code, shall continue to exercise such right.
I think it's like the arrangement of Scotland and England before 1999, where Scotland elects members to the parliament in London, however the parliament in London can't pass domestic laws for Scotland, but MPs from Scotland votes on statutes that affect England's domestic issues.
Anyways, what about a city template, grouped into HUCs, independent components and components? — scorpion prinz 17:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
How about including cities that both satisfy the requirement that they're independent from a province and don't vote for provincial officials? --Howard the Duck 02:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyway here's my proposal, if we use the {{Philippines political divisions}} template for Highly urbanized cities, like Zamboanga and the likes, other fields there are impertinent to the LGU. I take the cue from TheCoffee to come up with individual templates, and I think we can group them like this in the main Philippines article:

This way we can have {{Philippine territorial disputes}} included in the Sabah, Spratlys, Scarborough Shoal articles, without dragging the entire {{Philippines political divisions}} to it. I can also accede to removing HUCs from provincial templates, but for ICCs lets just have them included, and labeled below as such. What do you think? This will entail however the deletion of {{Philippines political divisions}} as we will render it useless. For the cities it's really hard to monitor their charters as to they will continue to vote or not for provincial officials, so I think lets have them all in one template, and categorize them as HUCs, ICCs and Components. — scorpion prinz 04:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The {{Philippines political divisions}} is supposed to mimic the {{USPoliticalDivisions}}, an easy way to navigate between the top political divisions; in this case provinces and HUCs. So I'd rather remove all of the {{Philippines political divisions}}'s contents except for the provinces. --Howard the Duck 08:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Well their structure is much simpler than ours. =( — scorpion prinz 09:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
If I'd be given a choice, I'd revert {{Philippines political divisions}} to the previous version where the provinces, Manila and the LGU hierarchy are displayed, not all of them. --Howard the Duck 10:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


Exclude all HUCs in provincial lateral templates, then include them at {{Indy Philippine cities}}; all HUC articles will display only the {{Indy Philippine cities}} and no trace of any provincial navigation template.

(BTW, {{Indy Philippine cities}} is under deletion but it hasn't been started.) --Howard the Duck 10:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I took the liberty of removing all HUCs from provincial templates, just retained independent "component" cities there and used the {{Philippine cities}} for template. I hope not to resurrect any issue anymore. Btw I was the one who had it tagged as {{TfD}}. Is there a "user for deletion" template? lol... — scorpion prinz 17:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Having a city template for all cities doesn't achieve anything, since cities by themselves aren't related to one another as provinces are.
  • You haven't finished the deletion procedure; you'd have to list it on the TFD page.
  • As for your last sentence, is that an insult? --Howard the Duck 17:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I get your point. I just find it worthy to have all cities in a template, properly grouping them into HUCs, ICCs and Components. That's my solution for the meantime. — scorpion prinz 17:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Tagalog Wikipedia concern

One of the regular contributors of Japanese child actors at the tl:Tagalog Wikipedia, tl:User:GNHK, is concerned that an article is used for a French porn community site. Any advice on what to do? --bluemask (talk) 01:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I've written in a response on the TL page. Basically, what I said is that the said site used a direct quotation, and there's nothing we or WP can do about it (since basically, WP has nothing to do with the said website). I also suggested that the best course of action is to contact the said porn site's owner, admin or moderator. Feel free to add any other ideas. --- Tito Pao 02:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

other info in the project page

hey, I just visited the other regional notice boards out of curiosity and found out that they have some interesting sections in their project pages. I suggest that we add to expand, to destub, to cleanup etc. sections rather than just requested media alone on the project page. I think that would guide Filipino wikipedians to the articles that need help. However the added info might bulk up the project page. Sub-pages might solve this problem. Anyways I leave the decision to the veterans here.--Lenticel 08:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Have you heard of Cheche Lazaro ?

Cheche Lazaro is a Filipino broadcast journalist, but how notable is she? Have the members of the Phillipines Portal heard of her? I am considering a deletion if notability cannot be shown. -- Guroadrunner 15:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The simple answer would be yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssss. --Howard the Duck 18:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
In the Philippines, Cheche Lazaro would be somewhat the Christiane Amanpour or the Barbara Walters of the Philippines, 'cept that she's also teaching at the University of the Philippines; this is significant because some of the familiar names in the Philippine news media (esp. news reporters) were her students --- Tito Pao 22:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
She's just the GREATEST Filipina journalist in the whole world. Well, one of the greatest (together with Loren and Mareng Winnie). Anyway, LUV her! --23prootie 15:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Cleaned up the article somehow. Would appreciate it if someone develop it further. Why people of her caliber have such little online sources baffles me. --Lenticel 01:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Lumipat kasi siya mula sa Kapuso before they were active on their website. Traydor! Joke. --23prootie 20:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Online sources are freaking hard to find for local stuff. Do any of the public libraries here have microfilm access plus indices of the leading broadsheet newspapers? Shrumster 20:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
True. Online Philippine libraries and news publications are far behind their US counterparts. I was once doing a research on liquor Gangs and Al Capone, and I was so impressed with the online Chicago Tribune that with a small fee, you can lookup news and feature articles from as far as the 1930's, and even way further! But yes, some university and public libraries in the Philippines do have microfilm access and indices of print news materials. --Weekeejames 23:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
merong microfilm section doon sa Main Library ng UP-Diliman. Sensya na pero hindi ako makakapunta doon ngayon --Lenticel 23:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I believe the most complete broadsheet records there would be for the Manila Bulletin I don't know how far the records go but I know they have records for at least the 1980's onwards.--Lenticel 00:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Phil. Blog Awards - Limited tickets to be raffled off

Sorry I had to create a new topic for this one, since the original discussion is getting longer. Anyway...for those who are interested to watch the Phil. Blog Awards, it looks like there will be limited seats for the event. The good news is, the organizers will be raffling off giving away 100 seats for the event. Joining is easy, but you'll need to have a blog to get started. Please visit this page for more information. NOTE: As of this date, 28 people have signed up, so that means there are only 72 tickets left!!! Just to be sure, I'll be signing up as well. --- Tito Pao 05:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Update So apparently, there were less than 28...someone made a double posting and so it means that it's not meant to be a double entry. --- Tito Pao 05:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I could sign up with my blog, but I can't go. Can another Pinoy/Pinay wiki use my e ticket, do u know? --Ate Pinay (talkemail) 15:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I would love to go, but I don't think I can go on the 31st. But it doesn't hurt to ask. If I get permission, I will join the ticket raffle. --Sky Harbor 13:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I have a blog and I've followed their instructions. Just waiting for my e-ticket. :) --seav 11:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey folks, my friend User:Pepe alas (of & will be representing me at the Blog Awards on Saturday. Wish me luck, ha? ;-) --Chris S. 04:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, a really great blogger is representing you! MLQ3 cited Pepe's blog as perhaps the first and the only Philippine-related blog written entirely in Spanish. Good luck to you, Chris! Ipagpapamisa kita sa serve ko...hehehe ;) --- Tito Pao 04:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes indeed, as far as I have heard. I would still like someone though who would be willing to cover the Philippine Blog Awards, since I will be in Marinduque tomorrow. Oh well. --Sky Harbor 05:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Is this for the Wikinews? I'm going to the ceremony and I'll be taking some pictures. :-) --seav 08:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

San Juan City?

Really? --Howard the Duck 17:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Not yet. Plebiscites have not yet been conducted to ratify it. As well that of Navotas' and the 12 controversial city charters which our president had allowed to lapse into law. I believe the COMELEC is set to hold plebiscites for these "proposed cities" on May 14 as well. A lot of provincial and municipal profiles had been edited in anticipation of their cityhood which have NOT YET BEEN RATIFIED. The 12 controversial city charters (not counting Navotas' and San Juan's) are to be challenged by the League of Cities. If so, their effectivity will not come until the Supreme Court's final ruling on them, if those who oppose it won't accede to a lower court's decision. Just imagine, Taguig's cityhood plebiscite was held in 1998?? but it didn't take effect until 2004 when the Supreme Court rendered with final judgment upholding it. So let's revert those "soon to be cities" back to just plain municipalities for now. — scorpion prinz 17:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I moved it back to San Juan, Metro Manila. --Howard the Duck 17:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to barge in the discussion. AFAIK, the plebiscite for San Juan's cityhood will push through soon. The "controversies" involved, from what I understand, were the makings of some politician with vested interests (but since that might qualify as original research and, more importantly, because my sources are confidential, I can't say much). The real problems with San Juan not getting the cityhood has nothing to do with politics, really, but with population---that is, they used to have very few (semi-)permanent residents. Btw, my mom works in San Juan :) --- Tito Pao 22:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
But as long as it is not proclaimed as a city, then it should remain at San Juan, Metro Manila. --Howard the Duck 00:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I know that, obviously. I just wanted to let you guys know that there will be new developments on this one and that, once new news gets puclished, we can expect updates on this article. --- Tito Pao 00:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's just wait for the outcome of the plebiscite and their formal proclamation. As far as I know there's no opposition to San Juan's and Navotas' cityhood. The other's like Carcar, Cebu, Baybay, Leyte have, so even if they ratify their charters, if there's a pending case before them in the courts, we have to follow the status quo not to have them labeled as cities yet. This is also the case with our maps, we already had drawn Taguig's boundaries to include North Portside and South Portside of Makati, even though the lower court has decided in favor of Taguig, the case was elevated by Makati to the Supreme Court. This coming elections, as I had verified with people from COMELEC, affected residents will still vote for Makati's officials, since they have to follow the status quo (which is they still belong to Makati), until the decision is rendered with finality. — scorpion prinz 05:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Guess what, at the official homepage, the Wikipedia locator map is display, without credit hehehe. --Howard the Duck 02:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Puerto Princesa City a HUC

According to this, President Arroyo has ordered the conversion of Puerto Princesa City into a highly urbanized city. Presuming I got the text correct, it will still remain the capital of Palawan, but it's only a guess. --Sky Harbor 01:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't say a plebiscite has already taken place. Maybe the COMELEC will hold it simultaneous with the May 14 elections similar to Lapu-Lapu City. It can very well remain as Palawan's capital, similar to Cebu, Bacolod and Iloilo cities being the capital of their mother province. — scorpion prinz 01:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
This HUC thing is killing me. Removing them from provincial templates. It's like deducting the land area of the US embassy in Manila, from Manila's land area as well as the Philippines', since it is considered foreign territory and not even the Philippines has jurisdiction over it. whew. — scorpion prinz 01:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Another thing about naming HUCs and Philippine cities in general: since all cities except all HUCs and a few others are independent from a province, perhaps we can use a "<Cityname> City, <Province>" format? For example: Meycauayan City becomes Meycauayan City, Bulacan. --Howard the Duck 11:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Why not.. Ü — scorpion prinz 16:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Experimental mediation avenue now in testing/evaluation period

FYI: The Community enforceable mediation has recently opened a 90-day evaluation period for the community. Basically, it's a cross between an arbitration request, a mediation request and a case handled by members of the mediation cabal except that, unlike an ArbCom case, both parties will come up with a set of resolutions (under the mediator's guidance) and will submit these resolutions to the community for the community's approval. The resolutions are enforceable only if the community has reached such a consensus. No cases have been filed so far, but as members of the WP community, let's help decide if this new program should continue after the said 90 days. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 05:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea, but what force does it have on someone who just deliberately edits anything that will suit his palette even though consensus has been reached? There are those who just ignores and keeps on doing what they want. :( — scorpion prinz 02:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Project: Political parties of the Philippines

Tambayan Philippines/Archive10

Now its election campaign season, can you help me look into campaign posters, banners, ads and lets take a picture on them.

Interestingly, no images of these political parties are circulated in the entire world wide web:

If you have a link to show me, please paste it below. If you took a picture on them, please provide a photobucket or any image bank link. If it can be enhanced through Photoshop or CorelDraw, thats good. I need it for my project at school. --Exec8 00:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

TEAM Unity's logo has 2 doves biting an olive branch on a dark blue background. --Howard the Duck 01:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Political ideology? I guess N/A for most. lol Ü — scorpion prinz 03:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Manila's infobox

Someone changed Manila's infobox. I dunno what to do. Should I revert it? --Howard the Duck 01:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I like it though, but I guess who ever edited it is following other infoboxes he finds in other countries. The boldfaces however are an eyesore. — scorpion prinz 02:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
By the way, Manila wasn't settled only in 1574. Rajahnates have thrived in the area long before the Spanish came. — scorpion prinz 02:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it should be renamed into "resettled by the Spaniards" or something. --Howard the Duck 02:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Nah, why do the Spanish have to take prominence in its "settlement"? There was once a Kingdom of Namayan in the area of centered in present-day Sta. Ana in the 12th century according to Nick Joaquin's Manila, My Manila. Can't the settlement date just be removed, since no one is sure of it. — scorpion prinz 02:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
It's your call but Manilenos celebrate "Awaw ng Maynila" on the date of the Spanish resettlement. If we can find the exact date/year of the Filipino settlement (next to impossible), then it should be included. --Howard the Duck 02:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Isn't it the date when it was formally established as a city, and not merely settled right? I guess that date when the Spanish arrival in Manila, similar to Magellan's arrival in the Philippines. But it's not when it was settled. — scorpion prinz 03:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
From Nick Joaquin's Manila, My Manila, here are some dates important to Manila:
May 19, 1571 – Miguel Lopez de Legazpi's occupation of Manila
June 3, 1571 – Legazpi formally gave Manila the title of city, proclaiming it the capital of the New Kingdom of Castile
June 24, 1571 – City government was established. I guess this should help. — scorpion prinz 04:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, the income classification is gone. --seav 08:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

This infobox looks pretty good actually (though I prefer we still use our own "Infobox Philippine city"). I like the prominent skyline picture. I personally don't like the idea of putting "settlement" and "incorporated" dates for Philippine cities, since that can mean wildly different things for different cities.TheCoffee 12:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we can adopt a few changes with the {{Infobox Philippine city}}. Ü— scorpion prinz 16:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I got a suggestion as I've observed in some LGU templates that they tend to have the entire town/city/provincial officials listed, sometimes in BOLD letters if not BOLDFACED and with the title Hon. (which I believe should only be reserved to judges and justices), can't we have a template to accommodate them? So they'd be in a proper place, without much fanfare? Ü — scorpion prinz 17:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Lito Sisnorio, dead boxer dude

Hey guys, just saw the guy on the news, decided to start a Lito Sisnorio stub on him. I put in a handful of references but this just ain't my thing so I'm wondering if anyone would want to do the honors of bulking up the article from the references I've dug up so far? One of the links has a detailed biography on the guy, all of them have the details of his last fight and his subsequent death, some of the references have stuff on the aftermath (banning of Thai fights, etc), etc. There's a lot to be summarized and wikized. Shrumster 11:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hacking in the Philippines

Do you remember Ernie Baron's episode regarding "hacking"? Can someone shed light with this article This is supposed to be a start-class article. Yunaffx 10:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yunaffx, Ernie Baron, while providing an alternative means of mass education, is not exactly someone I would seriously consider as an academic. He merely repeats what other people have already researched from other books, a fact that Mr. Baron himself admits (i.e. he reads encyclopedias and other books and has a good memory). In this regard, just because a hacker gets mentioned in one episode of a defunct TV show hosted by a well-known host doesn't add notability to that person (or, in this nomination's case, group). In Wikipedia, notability is more than just a mere mention: in the context of hackers, the subject of an article must have done something significant (since this is about hackers, think of Junel de Guzman; think of Kevin Mitnick; think of the original creator of the Melissa virus---what these people did could be done by equally competent hackers, but for certain reasons as specified in the Wikipedia guidelines, they really deserved their own Wikipedia articles.) Now, I do not encourage any hackers' group to do something as drastic as, say, simultaneously hacking ten notable websites like Yahoo, Google and Microsoft, but bear in mind that for a hacker to have his own article on WP, they must have done something that did get people's attention and may have an impact to the community. (For instance, Melissa was the first macro successful virus, and this affected how people view and deal with computer viruses. Other hackers have since written their own macro viruses, but only the author of the Melissa earned his place on Wikipedia because he was the first and he left a mark on the world. If not for the incident with Melissa, antiviruses would still be dealing with executables and Trojans and not with macro viruses.) For purposes of transparency: I casted a "delete" vote on the aforementinoed AfD. Having read through your comments, I'd like you to take time to read Wikipedia's take on neutral point of view, attribution and conflict of interest. You may also want to read more about Wikipedia's take on notability, especially on organizations and corporations. --- Tito Pao 09:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
And please don't hack WP. >_< =D Berserkerz Crit 01:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


I was given the municipal reports for San Teodoro Oriental Mindoro by its Mayor, Apollo Feraren and i see here that there is a lot of information which can be used to expand the article. I also have the pictures of its 20 waterfalls and other attractions, its seal, and other paraphernalia to use for his campaign video which i will make... I wish to use them for wikipedia purposes, maybe turn San teodoro to a featured Article candidate (ambition...) but how can i fit these to our policy? Aren't these copyrighted? I am baffled.... please help. -Justox dizaola 06:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

For the text, writing it with your own words in NPOV will not be a problem (and you need to cite your sources of course). It would be different for the images though. You need to ask if they want the images released under a free license. --bluemask (talk) 06:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Of course, if you took your own pictures with your own camera, upload it on WP and add a note that you took them yourself, and release them under a free license, that will almost never be a problem ;) --- Tito Pao 04:35, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I did not take ther photos. As I see the text is in NPOV so it is not a problem. Are seals copyrighted? I plan to ask a letter from the municipal gov't allowing free use of their images and other media for Wikipedia. It will be easy. Tito ko ito, but how will i conduct the making of the letter? is there any prescribed format or what specifications must be necessary? 05:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)-Justox Dizaola

If the images were taken by an employee of the Government of the Philippines during the time of his/her work, the images are owned by the Government of the Philippines and available only under a non-commercial license. (Here we go again.) We need free ones. Do what Tito Pao says and we will be fine. --bluemask (talk) 09:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm actually thinking of a workaround: if the photos were published as if it was from the uncle's personal use before it gets published in a government publication, then maybe (and it's a qualified "maybe") the pics could be published on WP. In that case, the licensing issues will be the problem of the local government, not us. But that's wishful thinking on my part. Anyway, Justox, I suggest that you take it one step at a time...generally, articles will have to pass good article status before being scrutinized as featured article material. If the article makes it as a GA, then it means you're on your way to FA-hood. Good luck editing! =) --- Tito Pao 15:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Not necessarily: three of the four FAs the Filipino Wikipedia community can boast of (the LRT, MRT and history of the Philippines) never went through GA before FA. But then again, just in case. --Sky Harbor 22:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Hmm...I didn't know that, although, yes, just in case, it's a good idea to be aware of both the GA and FA standards. For me, it would be tantamount to setting a gauge on how far an article is from being FA status (for example, something like, "it meets most of the GA criteria but will still need more work to be FA")...although I can't think of an egregious situation where an FA status fails GA status. ---- Tito Pao 22:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Most wanted articles

There are currently 7 articles listed at WP:MWA#Philippines that might be of interest to this project --Sapphic 20:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

An AfD about a barangay

Hello! I've nominated an article about a barangay in Sta. Maria, Bulacan. Although I know the place (I am a Bulakeño), I think an article about a barangay that not many Filipinos may have heard of is taking the limits of WP too far. I don't know if another article about a barangay has been nominated before, so to the best of my knowledge it's the first time I've ever encountered an AfD like this. Hence, I'd appreciate your inputs on the AfD's discussion, if only to serve as a reference point for those who are thinking of writing articles about their own barangays. Thanks! --- Tito Pao 01:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I vaguely recall a barangay or two being put up for AfD. I agree, unless the barangay is notable for some reason it should be deleted or if there is something salvageable then it should go merged. I'll go make a note of that on the AfD. --Chris S. 04:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to set a precedent that says all barangays are notable, but this is a pretty big barangay... with a population of 23,069, that's larger than many towns. TheCoffee 06:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

National Assembly of the Philippines

I might be lifting my own bench here, but I'd like to nominate this to Good Article status. :) — scorpion prinz 13:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

That's a helluva good work! no1 Berserkerz Crit 13:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I only got 1 supporter.. lol.. — scorpion prinz 18:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
For GAs, you'll only need 1 supporter... --Howard the Duck 01:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Shall I add this now to the project page? Ü— scorpion prinz 03:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I can't found this on WP:GAC, though. --Howard the Duck 06:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Any Filipino American experts?

The Asian American is pretty sketchy on Filipino Americans although they are supposed to be the second largest subgroup after Chinese Americans. In contrast, there is quite a bit about Indian and Japanese Americans. If any of you can help fill in the article with more information about Filipino Americans, that would be.....helpful. Chiss Boy 12:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Some of the editors on this portal are Filipino-Americans themselves, so please feel free to leave a message on their talk pages =) I can think of Ate P, Chris S., Lenticel and Sky Harbor, among others. --- Tito Pao 12:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm also a FilAm, and I'm glad to help. -chris^_^ 01:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Barasoain Church

I just made the article, please improve it. History and architecture is really not my niche.--Lenticel 13:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Angeles City

I just protected Angeles City. Susanbryce has been adamant about putting some info about certain social issues there (imho, she's going overboard). Another user has been removing them. Anyone want to help? --Chris S. 03:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the late, late reply about this. I took the time to carefully study this article and the articles that this user edited. After much deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that Susanbryce is pushing a personal agenda, or at least the agenda of her group. Not that I'm denying that prostitution in the Philippines isn't a serious social issue, but there are better ways of presenting the issue without sticking it in everyone's throat (see the disproportionate referencing for Angeles City in the Prostitution in the Philippines article for an example of this). At the very least, although her edits were properly referenced, I can't help but think that she's essentially POV-pushing her way in these articles (most of the references tend to come from the website of her group). You need not look further at her user page for this (I'll let the rambling discourse speak for itself).
Anyway, I've made an edit to this article, and if she reverts that (directly or otherwise)...wala na akong masasabi pa (I can't say anything more about it). I would have also wanted to leave some user warning templates on her talk page, but given how she reacts to other people's edits and given how she justifies her work as shown on the talk pages, I'm hesitant. I wanted to say more, but the one that's on the tip of my tongue is too strong a word (even under WP standards), so at the moment, all I can say is that her edits speak for itself. --- Tito Pao 15:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Is her org that notable? If it's not that notable, it can't be that reliable. --Howard the Duck 16:02, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly...that's one of the things that's also on my mind right now. Been doing some Google searches, and it looks decent enough, there are some mentions not just from Philippine websites, but from other countries as well. However, even so, there are other issues that I'd rather not discuss at the moment. --- Tito Pao 16:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Why single out Angeles City? Unless it has really gained notoriety for it. No one would say if you're from Angeles, you're most likely a prostitute, or people would ask how are the brothels and prostitutes there? Scorpion Prinz | talk  16:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Prostitution editwar with User:RodentofDeath

From what I understand (and I'm no expert), Angeles City is a notable destination for prostitution. I get this from a few editors on Talk:Sex tourism, and from the online material used to source the following line in the Angeles City article:

Since the early days of Clark Air Base, Angeles City has become known as a centre for prostitution. This industry increased greatly after the end of World War II.[1][2][3][4][5]

  1. ^ Marks, Kathy (2004-06-28). "In the clubs of the Filipino sex trade, a former RUC officer is back in business". The Independent (Independent News and Media Limited). Retrieved 2007-05-15. This is the centre of the Philippines sex industry. ... There are 100,000 child prostitutes in the Philippines, according to the UN children's agency, Unicef. 
  2. ^ Pfitzner, Dr The Hon. Bernice (1996-08-14). "Inquiry into Prostitution, Final Report". Ninth Report of the Social Development Committee of the Parliament of South Australia. President of the Legislative Council and the Speaker of the House of Assembly. pp. 38–39. Retrieved 2007-05-15. The predominance of Australians in the sex trade in the Philippines was confirmed by a delegate from the Australian Law Reform Commission who visited the Philippines as part of an Australian study tour in July 1995.... In Angeles city in particular, up to 80 percent of the bars and hotels are owned or managed by Australians. When the Manila local government attempted to close down the sex industry in central Manila, many of the businesses moved to Angeles. Once the site of a major US army base, it seems that Australians have taken over this thriving entertainment and prostitution centre (Lauber, 1995, p 2) 
  3. ^ Juvida, Sol F. (1997-10-12). "Philippines-Children: Scourge of Child Prostitution". Inter Press Service. IPS-Inter Press Service. Archived from the original on 2003-05-04. Retrieved 2007-05-15. The country's top five spots for child prostitution all have more than their fair share of foreign visitors: Metro Manila, Angeles City, Puerto Galera in Mindoro province, Davao and Cebu. 
  4. ^ Cullen, Fr. Shay (2005-05-03). "Sex Tourism Is Big Money for Pimps and Politicians". imc-qc (philipines). independent media center. Retrieved 2007-05-15. Angeles City, two hours north of Metro Manila, is the home of the most organized sex industry in the Philippines. Thousands of sex tourists from all over the world go there to look for cheap sex, much of it with under age minors. Some go looking for children younger than 12. It is estimated that 60,000 children are exploited annually in this business in the Philippines. 
  5. ^ "Country Report: Philippines". The Protection Project. The Protection Project, The Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS), John Hopkins University, Washington, D.C. 2005-09-27. Archived from the original (DOC) on 2005-09-27. Retrieved 2007-05-15. Fields Avenue in Angeles, a seedy city north of Manila, is the center of the sex industry in the Philippines. Many bars and clubs employ underage girls. The city grew up around the huge U.S. Clark Air Base, and although the base closed in 1992, prostitution is still the only industry in town.  line feed character in |publisher= at position 49 (help)

I can't speak to User:Susanbryce's edits, but at this point RodentofDeath seems to be the last one standing, and has taken an obstreperous WP:OWNership of the article. RodentofDeath repeatedly deletes the above, well-annotated sentence, typically with misleading edit summaries. [6] [7] [8] [9]

Two anonymous editors have also deleted this passage. I'm pretty sure one is not RodentofDeath, perhaps neither is.[10] [11]

RodentofDeath has taken to disputing every source on the Talk page, using nitpicky, opportunistic arguments [12] [13] [14], then removing without consensus. Discussion has become lengthy, and I don't think further discussion will be productive as he deletes regardless. Rodent's general campaign has been to remove anything perceived as unflattering, without compromise. This may be a reaction to the Susanbryce edit war, but he's now going pretty far in the other direction.

The quotes in these citations became quite long because Rodent has been misrepresenting (for a while I assumed simply misreading) the citations in deletion edit summaries. Now I really think he's simply bulldozing, and giving any plausible excuse for the deletion.

Any suggestions?

If Susanbryce returns I'd be pleased to see a mediation happen, and help where I can, but I've arrived late to this mess, and I'm in it mostly for this one edit. / edgarde 04:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to mention, there is currently an incident report on the Administrators' Noticeboard on this subject. / edgarde 05:17, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

GA for PNR

As of today, I would like to announce that Philippine National Railways has been elevated to good article status, making it WP's 2,135th good article. Well, now I think we have a reason to celebrate. --Sky Harbor 18:56, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


Did you know that there is a Philippine Wikia but the only article is the very useless Philippines movement? Perhaps all of the content destined to be deleted, barangays, anything under the sun can be transfered there. --Howard the Duck 16:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


"When the Americans established a civil government in the Philippines, they held the first election in the country in the town of Baliuag, Bulacan on May 6, 1899. "<<-- I doubt the veracity of this fact because I believe that it is highly improbable that an election was held in Baliuag, if it was really true that the first local elections was actually held there, in 1899. why?

1. 1999 was the height of the conflict between the Filipinos and the Americans. the province of Bulacan was a hotbed of "insurrection" during that year. A civil government may be established only in a pacified province, city or town.

2. the Americans only began organizing a civil government in 1900. Even with the establishment of the civil government with the Philippine Commission as the legislature, executive powers still resided in the Military Governor. Civil Government was only fully established on July 4, 1901 with William Howard Taft as Civil Governor.

Angeles624 19:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Since you made a duplicate entry on the Bulacan talk page, please continue your discussion there and not here on the Tambayan. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 21:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
From the book Malolos: The Crisis of the Republic by Teodoro Agoncillo, p. 390:
...The following day, Bustos and Baliuag fell, and the Filipino defenders fled northward. At Baliuag, Lawton seized 150,000 bushels of rice and 265 tons of sugar and distributed them to the civilians. On May 7, he authorized the creation of the first Filipino local government under the Americans. General Field Orders No. 8, dated at Baliuag, May 7, said:
For the purposes of official and just representation of the inhabitants of this town with Military authorities, as well as for temporary convenience in restoring and maintaining order among the former, the citizens ere authorized to meet and elect a capitan municipal. The result of such meeting has been the selection of Señor Francisco Guerrero, who is therefore announced as Mayor and authorized to select a council and such other assistants or officers as may be necessary to properly administer municipal affairs. He will be accordingly respected and obeyed.
These were events in 1899, I'll cite other references I can find.— scorpion prinz 16:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

BEPZA, Bataan

Can anyone verify this article (BEPZA, Bataan) written by Reinerdiz (talk · contribs)? --bluemask (talk) 14:56, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I saw this place on the PLDT directory since it has an area code. --Howard the Duck 14:58, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
On second thought, although may have a separate area code, it is not a separate municipality. --Howard the Duck 15:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
It isn't: BEPZA is legally part of Mariveles; it just happens to be the economic (the Bataan Economic Zone; formerly the Bataan Economic Processing Zone) zone within the municipality, although with similar arrangement to Clark Air Base (the CSEZ redirects to there) and Angeles City, and the Subic Bay Freeport Zone and Olongapo City, we can write a separate article on it. --Sky Harbor 16:52, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Can an admin move BEPZA, Bataan to Bataan Export Processing Zone? I screwed up when I moved Talk:BEPZA, Bataan to Bataan Export Processing Zone. --Howard the Duck 16:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I partially fixed the move, but it must be moved to Bataan Export Zone and the BEPZ must redirect to there. The Bataan Export Zone is the current name of the area. --Sky Harbor 17:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I'll fix this. What's the current status of the area? Special zone? Barangay? What? --Howard the Duck 06:27, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Special zone. The BEPZA is classified as a GOCC (and another thing, the talk page for the BEZ is still redirecting to the BEPZ talk page, not the BEZ). --Sky Harbor 18:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I can't do it, it needs admin intervention, however, I'm thinking of creating an article about Special economic zones of the Philippines and a category too. And what's GOCC? --Howard the Duck 09:06, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Government owned and/or operated corporation. --Sky Harbor 13:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
If these "zones" are to be deduced from the jurisdiction of the LGUs they are under, it would be tantamount to excluding data of Boracay from Malay, Aklan or of Intramuros from Manila since they are administered by the Department of Tourism, and other areas which are in such similar arrangements. Would we then exclude the land area occupied by foreign embassies in the Philippines since they are "de jure" outside of our sovereignty? Even if these areas are by law not supervised by the LGUs they are located, there must be a status quo that has to be observed. — scorpion prinz 15:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
IMHO, it's all right for these articles to exist, but it must be made clear that they're a part of a certain municipality/city right from the start, and no barangays and stats removed from the mother city/municipality. The problem with the BEPZA article was the the original author implied that BEPZA is independent from Mariveles when it is not. --Howard the Duck 16:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
And that's why I'm happy that the Embassy of the United States of America to the Republic of the Philippines (that's a very long article title) implies that it is in Manila :). --Sky Harbor 17:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Can't it be shortened to United States Embassy in the Philippines or Embassy of the United States in the Philippines? The use of the preposition "to" is like a title you confer or a grant. Scorpion Prinz | talk  08:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Originally, it was the Embassy of the United States in Manila, but SunKing moved it because the present name conforms to present Wikipedia naming conventions with regard to embassies. I haven't been able to fully investigate it though. --Sky Harbor 16:46, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh no

I reformatted my hard drive but I forgot to back up the files on my Windows desktop, including all the Photoshop source files for all those maps I made. :( Aaargh! --TheCoffee 05:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Well at least you can start on creating PNG ones hehehe. --Howard the Duck 14:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
If you know someone who can retrieve data from the master boot record, you can still retrieve them as long as you don't continually use your hard drive. — scorpion prinz 16:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


Is it acceptable take content from the english wiki and just translate it for There seems to be very little activity over there and maybe we can start a project to move more content from the english wiki to the tagalog one.— Sandtiger 10:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Of course. Everything here is free, except for fair-use images. Lol. Berserkerz Crit 13:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)'d have to say at the bottom that the content came from the English Wikipedia, though. --Howard the Duck 13:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Airport names in local languages

Well, I have this trend now to insert local (other than Filipino) names into international airport articles. So far, this is what we have:

  • Cebu: Tugpahanang International sa Mactan-Cebu (Cebuano)
  • Davao: Tugpahanang International sa Francisco Bangoy (Cebuano)
  • Zamboanga: Aeropuerto Internacional de Zamboanga (Chavacano/Spanish)

All international airports have their names in Filipino (ex. Laguindingan International Airport, which I will add in Filipino and Cebuano). However, for those good in translation, I do want to ask the translations of the following airports' names in their respective local languages:

Subic Bay International Airport and General Santos International Airport can be translated, but I do not know the dominant languages in their respective provinces/cities.

Thanks for all the help. --Sky Harbor 01:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

This is a good move, Bay. Although I couldn't help, I commend you for it! --Bentong Isles 12:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Tessie Aquino-Oreta/Feliciano Belmonte, Jr.

Anyone willing to clean/wikify these up? Brazen political propaganda. oops. Ü — scorpion prinz 08:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm editing the Oreta article as I write this =) --- Tito Pao 12:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Done (so I hope)! I also left warnings at the talk pages of the editor who was/were responsible for this. Actually, it was a cut-and-paste of the original biography at the Team Unity website, so I gave the uw-copyright warning. --- Tito Pao 12:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
And I reverted the Feliciano Belmonte article. If you're still up to it and feeling industrious, you can salvage the copy vio slash propaganda write-up at the history Titopao. =) Berserkerz Crit 12:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Might do that on my first's less than a minute before my shift begins =P --- Tito Pao 12:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm also done with the Sonny Belmonte article! I know there's a lot of holes, but of course I need to begin with something. I also added a redirect, so residents of Quezon City can now look up Sonny Belmonte in case they don't know the full name (and the "Jr"). Full disclosure: given the chance, I would have inerviewed my grandfather, he and Sonny Belmonte know each other. But I'd rather not ;-) --- Tito Pao 23:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
It isn't actually, but you might run into some problems with original research policy. Just be careful, though. --Sky Harbor 01:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Page move: Philippine piso to Philippiine peso

A move has been proposed. Talk:Philippine piso#Requested move. -Will Beback · · 20:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Afd for List of Philippine Presidents by longevity

AFD discussion here. It doesn't look like it's gonna get deleted though, due to overwhelming precedent. Still I think an effort should be made to expand the article.— Sandtiger 02:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks like I spoke too soon, the article is gone now.— Sandtiger 03:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Although I'd want this to be deleted, the closing admin clearly used his own judgment rather than the judgment of others (in this case, no consensus), which is quite common actually. Anyone can salvage this into WP:DRV. --Howard the Duck 08:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm not sure who would have the heart to bring the article through deletion review. Consensus as far as I know did not lean strongly towards delete (unlike what the outcome says), and the conditional delete point can prove valid, because this is a precedent overriding ann existing precedent IMHO: that these articles are trivial, according to the deletion summary. --Sky Harbor 15:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The List of United States Presidents by longevity is itself nominated (courtesy of TheCoffee), and some of the editors who have voted Delete so far have cited the Philippine version as a precedent. So if you were one of the editors who opined that the US list should be deleted as well, this is your chance. Offer good while supplies last ;-) --- Tito Pao 12:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Cebu Pacific took my image too

Earlier this month after I settled into my seat on a Cebu Pacific flight from Cebu to Manila, I checked out their-in flight magazine and saw this half-page feature on Dumaguete City. It took me a few moments to realize it, but that image looks very very familiar. --TheCoffee 03:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Props to you... you're now a published photographer :) — Sandtiger 03:26, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
QTV used your locator map for Jaen, Nueva Ecija too. Which brings me, GFDL is very demanding, we might as well change it to CC. --Howard the Duck 08:40, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
(Wait, isn't "Benguet" should be "Pangasinan"? --Howard the Duck 16:03, 27 April 2007 (UTC))


Someone please rename Caloocan City to "Historic City of Caloocan" to conform with the renaming of "Samal City" and "Muñoz City" to Island Garden City of Samal and Science City of Muñoz, respectively. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 06:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Hmm I wonder why is that since in the External Links I couldn't find a reference or website stating that the official name is the Historic City of Caloocan. IMHO, it's already ok where it's at. Berserkerz Crit 08:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
On the city seal it says as such, but we follow the most common name, which is "Caloocan City." Nobody in conversation says, "I live at the Historic City of Caloocan", might as well move "Philippines" to "Republic of the Philippines." --Howard the Duck 08:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Option Google hits Google hits
Samal 66,700 for IGaCoS 1,440 for Samal City
Munoz 557 for SC of Munoz 214 for Munoz City
Caloocan 5 for HC of Caloocan 203,000 for Caloocan City
Ruling: No contest. --Howard the Duck 14:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
What's next? The "Binay City of Makati"? Hehehe. The city charters of Science City of Muñoz and Island Garden City of Samal provided their nomenclature to be as such. It's different from the Islamic City of Marawi which is a title they bestowed on themselves. Much like Quezon City being the "City of the Stars".— scorpion prinz 15:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Is there any referendum in the past to change Caloocan's name to the "Historic city" title? --Glenncando 02:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
My take: no referendum, no official documentation (read: legal documents or certified referendum results) about this "Historic City" idea (I'd consider it as OR unless proven otherwise)...then no "Historic City" for you. --- Tito Pao 03:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
All places in the Philippines claim to be something, Antipolo for one is "The Pilgrimage City" those are adopted by the city council through a resolution, but their respective city charter don't call them really that way, in contrast to Samal and Muñoz. Scorpion Prinz | talk  07:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Manila Carnival Queen

I was at the Philippine Heart Center one time at an isolated corner I came across an exhibit of Philippine Carnival Queens (1908-1939) and I got the chance to photograph it. I was wondering if I could upload the pictures of those carnival queens here, I'm not sure if I'd be violating any copyright provisions. Scorpion Prinz | talk  05:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

By now those pictures should be PD since copyright only lasts 50 years for pictures from date of publication or creation according to the IPCP, but I'm not sure. I think there's a policy on taking pictures of copyrighted pictures, but I have to find it. --Sky Harbor 18:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikimania 2008 (the redux)

I just remembered about Wikimania 2008, of which unofficial city bids are finally being accepted. As far as I know, I am willing to support a Philippine bid for Wikimania 2008, of which I think can be held in the following cities:

  • Manila (I'll suggest this one)
  • Cebu City (original proposal by PikDig; it's here)
  • Other cities which might be good (Iloilo City is billing itself as a convention destination, for example)

I am even willing to work double time to establish Wikimedia Philippines for such. I think the convention though brings good publicity to Wikimedia projects in the Philippines, and even might be able to increase awareness of free media there. What do you think? --Sky Harbor 01:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I TOTALLY support a Philippine bid for Wikimania 2008. It would also be a good opportunity for us fellow Pinoy Wikipedians to meet each other as well as other Wikipedians from all over the world. (Speaking of which, how about a formal meet-up between Pinoy Wikipedians? *hint* *hint*). Admittedly, it's a long shot, and more so considering the logistics and the security arrangements, so I would suggest that we really, really come up with a viable and winnable plan if and when the proposal pushes through. --- Tito Pao 02:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
My honest opinion, since you asked... I don't think there's even a slight chance of having Wikimania 2008 in the Philippines. TheCoffee 03:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Wikimania is being held in Asia this year already, Taipei. Because of this, the host would most likely be in Europe next year. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 03:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, there's Wikimania 2009 (with Singapore being the only Asian bid). --Sky Harbor 11:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Unless North America or another region gets their turn (I believe they are on a rotational basis). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 15:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
We could always try to for Wikimania 2009 (No pain, no gain). The place if I were to be asked I would choose Cebu.

Advantages of Cebu: 1. It is probably cheaper than Manila 2. It is less busy than Manila 3. If the people who are gonna attend the Wikimania, want to go on vacation they could do it all in one place or fly to other tourist destinations like Boracay 4. A lot cooler than Manila Disadvantages of Cebu: 1. Very little international flights. People to/from other international destinations would probably first fly to Manila then to Cebu. If there are no connecting flights available to/from their place from/to Cebu. Advantages of Manila: 1. Plenty international flights. Flights to/from Canada, United States, Mexico, Brazil, Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Australia can depart/arrive from NAIA 2. A lot of places to choose from for the convention, or whatever you call it 3. If the people who are gonna attend the Wikimania, want to go on vacation they could do it all in one place or fly to other tourist destinations like Boracay Disadvantages of Manila: 1. It is probably more expensive than Cebu 2. It is busier than Cebu 3. It is hotter than Cebu So this is only my opinion, BTW no offense to those people living in Manila or Cebu... -chris^_^ 13:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Pinoy Wikimania

If you want to confirm your attendance for the the May 20 meet-up, please click on this link and then sign your name. Thank you. --- Tito Pao 08:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Its better we plan for a Filipino version of Wikimania '07. Suggested venues are as follows:

User:exec8(talkcontribs) 02:20, 4 May 2007

The last time we had a meetup it was a flop. We need greater cooperation and communication this time. But any one of those places would work well. --Sky Harbor 14:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
There was a previous meet-up?? Berserkerz Crit 14:18, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes there was. See here. There have been plans before, but they usually stop cold. --Sky Harbor 15:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to come. Scorpion Prinz | talk  15:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
We need a date and who really are going. --Sky Harbor 16:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
As long as it's in Metro Manila and MRT-able, I'd be willing to go. Megamall sounds good. Mall of Asia, pwede din. Shrumster 21:00, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Anywhere in Metro Manila is OK with me. If it's on another province, I'll see how it could work...just that, with my erratic sked and with the idiosyncracies of my workplace, I'll need at least three weeks' notice so that I can file my leave. --- Tito Pao 22:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Megamall is the most accessible because it will converge members from Northern and Southern Metro Manila. However due to lack of resources, meeting in Megamall would be expensive if a formal meeting would be held (unless otherwise there is a sponsor who could shelve thousands of pesos for the lease of the trade hall alone). Informal meeting in a restaurant (or food court) would be preferred. In the same case as Mall of Asia. But it would be a hassle for Northern Metro Manila members. I personally prefer MoA for an informal meeting because of its closeness to my location. U.P. Campus is a preferred choice for formal meeting as it would attract potential members and the U.P. community would embrace us. La Salle would be an alternate choice but it would get a lesser audience than U.P.. CICC in Cebu is a good choice for formal meeting if there is a larger audience than Metro Manila. But I have doubts. Preferred date for an informal meeting would be this May to accommodate minor-aged members to come in. If full preparation is a consideration, July is a preferred date. --Exec8 01:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking late May since I go back to school June 6, but I'm still unsure where we can go and meet up. Megamall or MoA are both fine, although I'll add Ayala Center to the list. --Sky Harbor 14:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Let's just do it in a resto on a weekend, check out what these guys in Melbourne did [15]. Renting the trade hall? Too much, unless it's already a convention of some sorts. Megamall is nice, it's at the center of the Metropolis. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 07:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Megamall is fine with me. We still need a concrete date (preferably late May) and an agenda. --Sky Harbor 16:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

(resetting indent) If we're going to do it in, say, Megamall, how about a reservation at a resto with a separate conference room or something similar? For example, if I'm not mistaken, the Jollibee branch at the fifth floor has a separate enclosure for parties and such (but then again, some people may think that Jollibee is best rented out for children's parties). I think that the other restos may also have similar facilities. From what I understand renting out the room/enclosure this way is way, way much cheaper than renting out the trade hall if there are not too many people coming in. --- Tito Pao 03:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe at DAD'S Megamall? --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 14:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
That would be nice. I can suggest Temptasian at Megastrip B (I know the manager), but any place is fine. Do we have a set date yet? --Sky Harbor 19:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm available May 20, June 3, June 10.--Exec8 20:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I'm available on those dates as well, although I have to ask. --Sky Harbor 02:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm in as long as it's a weekend. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 13:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
As of this week and the next few weeks (hopefully), my days off are Sundays and Mondays. Saturday evenings will be fine with me, but I'll first need to know in advance. --- Tito Pao 22:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor meeting on May 20, SM Megamall around 1:00 PM. Please send your responses by replying on this forum. --Exec8 (talkcontribs) 08:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC
In before everyone else. That means count me in. Berserkerz Crit 09:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I suggest we hold it in Metro Manila first; not that I am pro-Manila (you should know :)) but based on my observations most Pinoy WPians are based in Metro Manila. Once it starts we can hold it outside Metro Manila. BTW, the Philippine Wikipedias Mailing List is still active, if anyone is interested. --Bentong Isles 11:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I need to be back in Manila first before I confirm, but I can try to go. I'll keep people posted. --Sky Harbor 13:11, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Count me in. --Jojit fb 08:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm coming. Ü --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 13:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
May 20 sounds good to me. --seav 13:43, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
The survey does not work, so I find it quite useless. I will try my best to free up my schedule for the 20th (I will even forgo debate training and school supply-buying just for this). We still need a place to meet up though. --Sky Harbor 00:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't even know that there was a survey (until now), but since May 20, 2007, 1:00pm somewhere in Megamall or the Mall of Asia is fine by me. I'll set aside this date. Now we need a more specific venue. Anyone willing to scout around? I can volunteer to go around Megamall at least by Tuesday next week (since I'm playing for the nightly novena masses for our barrio fiesta until Saturday).--- Tito Pao 06:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll be waiting. --Exec8 09:18, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I have allocated May 20, 2007 1:00 PM for the wikipedia meetup. Place would be SM Megamall Building A, Kenny Rogers. If there would be someone who will follow please post your responses below. If we cant get seats in kenny rogers, we'll just use kenny rogers resto as a meetup then will look for a place to discuss our plans. This is just an informal getting to know meet lang naman. If no one will come at least I have used this time to roam around the mall and just buy something. --Exec8 11:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


Since we now have a set meetup date and time (but no place), I will now propose the following agenda (it's roughly the same as Exec8's agenda sent over the PhilWiki group, but edited:

  • Wikimedia Philippines (WMPH)
    • I will present a copy of the proposed articles of incorporation, and we need to start some by-laws. We also need a way to raise (and keep constant) one million pesos for capital.
  • Issues with copyright
    • We need a new EDP per Board resolution for all Philippine-language Wikipedias (or a common one to be translated in all languages), including Hiligaynon and Kinaray-a. The EDP adopted for the Tagalog Wikipedia will also be used on the Tagalog Wiktionary (and Wikinews and Wikibooks). I think we also need a way to persuade Congress to "let loose" (for lack of a better term) on Section 176 of the IPCP. Also, how will we cement the use of Philippine fair-use provisions either here or on the Philippine Wikimedia projects.
  • Article standards
    • No existing Philippine-language Wikipedia has a Manual of Style (although Ilokano has one on proper grammar and spelling). Quality and consistency are some of the main sticking points on all Philippine-language Wikipedias. For the sake of article standards on the English Wikipedia, I suggest we have a section where people can request assessments of unassessed articles.
  • Other, more controversial ideas
    • We need yet another common stand on whether or not we need a Philippines WikiProject (there is one on the Tagalog Wikipedia) and place all other projects as sub-projects. Also, we need to find a way to bring people who contribute exclusively on the Philippine-language Wikipedias to the main English Wikipedia (and Wikipedians-in-exile).

Well, go comment! --Sky Harbor 00:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Not that I'm going to begin making edits myself on the articles of incorporation (I have a Meta account), but would it be OK to, at least, write in some comments on its Talk page? --- Tito Pao 06:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Go ahead. --Sky Harbor 20:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Comments by Bentong Isles
  • One-million peso bond: We should find a way to be "exempted" from this requirement. IANAL, but there should be a way. Also, in case we can't find that way, we can ask s.o. with million pesos in his bank account for that to act as a bond. That's what we did in our foundation (SOLFED, which of course you don't know because we don't actually have a million pesos to spend - our president used his private bank account as bond).
  • Copyrights: I consulted a lawyer-friend and he told me that there are two schools of thought here on which laws are to be applied on each individual case. For simplicity we assumed that the servers are in the U.S. and the contributors are in the Philippines (even with this very simplified scenario the process is already very complicated). "Illegal" content on the US servers could constitute crime but as to the responsibility of the uploader (assuming he resides in the Phils.) there is no doctrine in the courts yet. "Illegal" uploads of s.o. residing in the Philippines could constitute crime, but then again, there is a very large gray area on what crime did the uploader actually commit (esp. as the data actually resides in the servers in the US). His simplistic resolution is to use the most restrictive fair-use provisions in each case, i.e. U.S. rules are more restrictive, use them; if Phil. rules are more restrictive use them.
    • Now imagine that there are Filipino contributors from Australia, etc.
    • To be noted here is the high improbability (although not impossible if each one of you - don't include me :) - puts up a million peso) of having Wikimedia Philippine-owned servers.
  • Article standards: IMHO, we should have a "basic", "core" standards which we can ask each individual community to adapt - the en-wp Manual of Style is a good starting point.
    • One of the things that I would definitely support is the "localization" of notability rules, i.e. what is not notable in one wp might be notable in another. To cite a concrete example: Tagalogs may not care as to the notability of Tres de Abril, but it should be a required article in the Cebuano Wikipedia (unfortunately it's not written yet - you can blame me :)).
    • For the record, ceb-wp has "the" definite standard on the proper use of 'o' and 'u'.
    • And, as you can see, the presence of these wp's in regional Philippine languages could help in the "standardization" of these languages. :)
  • Philippines WikiProject: I will support this. On the other hand, we cannot "force" those wp'ans in other languages to contribute to en-wp. --Bentong Isles 04:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Total members of House of Reps = 275

There being 220 legislative districts (from the 200 districts provided in the 8th Congress) for the 14th Congress and the constitution mandates that at most 20% of House membership is elected through the party-list system that would make it now 55, therefore total maximum membership is now 275. Our House & Congress articles still provides for the 250 initially set by the constitution, where it says "The House of Representatives shall be composed of not more than 250 members, unless otherwise fixed by law" and laws have been passed to create new legislative districts thus rationally increasing as well the maximum number of seats allocated to the party-list system. I need your input before i proceed with the change in figures. Scorpion Prinz | talk  16:24, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

You've said "at most 20%...elected through the party-list system." So there's no problem. --seav 05:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I remembered this thread when I saw the image of the Inquirer front page. Just a thought... although the law says 20% of membership is party-list, how can there be 55 seats when a party needs 2% of the vote to be elected? That gives a maximum of 50 seats for party-list right? Ivanhenares 16:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


I would just like to point out that someone placed the calatagan pot in the Tagalog language.--23prootie 04:02, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

What is a Catalagan Pot anyway? --Howard the Duck 04:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
It's an ancient artifact. --bluemask (talk) 05:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Is it written in Tagalog? --Howard the Duck 05:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Template:Philippine legislatures

The inclusion of Batasang Bayan and Legislative Executive Development Advisory Council of the Philippines in the Legislature template is a point of argument between me and Rizalninoynapoleon, if other could add their inputs, we'd appreciate it. -- Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 15:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Cebuano wiki French communes

Just a little report and suggestion: the sudden growth of the Cebuano wikipedia ( is due to the importing of more than 30,000 articles on French communes. This wikipedia is flooded by these Fench commune articles. I'm not against France or its communes, I just think that the cebuano wiki does not serve right the Cebuanos or anyone researching for anything Cebuano in this wikipedia. For example, clicking on the random article link always returns a French commune, not anything related to Cebuano or even the world. Its portals, the supposedly navigational point of entry to related topics, have almost empty content (red links). This is not what I expect of a local encyclopedia, I expect it to present local, international or whatever information of general interest rather than trivial articles on every French commune, which in my opinion is so remote and foreign that it may have little weight or nothing at all in serving the local community or even the expectations of someone who is or will use the cebuano wikipedia. Thus, I suggest that all French commune articles be removed in the cebuano wiki, maybe except for the largest communes.

If I'd choose between French communes and Pinoy barangays, I'd rather choose the barangays; most of these French communes articles are actually empty, at least at en:. --Howard the Duck 02:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
IMHO, between the Philippine barangays and the French communes I would keep the French communes. For most of them a history can be traced, unlike the Philippine barangays most of which, even if some of them were actually political units prior to the Spanish conquest, are artificial creations during the Spanish regime to collect taxes and during the American occupation to consolidate the population. Also, the proposal at ceb-wp to have en-wp as the "de facto" standard for its articles had been set aside during its earliest days; the French commune articles are from it-wp and not from en-wp. --Bentong Isles 11:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Famous people or not???

Confusion on the usage of "famous" refering to people coming from San Fernando. We're not even aware that the aforementioned figures are famous. It's even much funnier to see the entire clan of Abad Santos here in this section and worst, even including Jamby Madrigal who basically grew up in Manila. Somebody rephrase this entry, please? Jeez! They're not even known by our folks here in Pampanga.

Another important thing. Just when did we hear local actress, Judy Ann Santos, coming from our city? She was born in Manila and never raised in San Fernando at all so why should we claim that she hails from our city? Well, ok. Her mom (Mrs. Lumagui) came from Angeles City and Porac, Pampanga but it just appears silly and highly insignificant to place her in this entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 15:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

Judy Ann Santos was from Antipolo, she was our neighbor. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 06:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
If you feel content is really doubtable, remove it, if someone readds it, tag it with {{cn}}. If someone removes the tag, take it to the talk page of the article. If they're really stubborn, ask for semi-protection. --Howard the Duck 12:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Judy Ann Santos is in our list of Famous Fernandinos because the list includes parentage. I simply copied some names from that list and put it there. I don't mind taking her out of the list. But I mind that the unsigned commenter above is complaining about the word "famous" and even deleted the whole section. The list included Jose Abad Santos. Maybe the person above has not seen a P1000 peso bill and being placed on money to the commenter does not seem to be a sign of fame. Jose Abad Santos, Pedro Abad Santos, etc. were all born in San Fernando, Pampanga. And what was that? Not known even by folks here in Pampanga? Happy Jose Abad Santos Day to you else you forget May 7 is a non-working holiday in Pampanga known as Jose Abad Santos Day. Ivanhenares 13:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
IMHO, a person should only be included there if the person lived/resided there. You can always add them to Kapampangan people if you'd want. --Howard the Duck 13:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The Abad Santoses resided in San Fernando, no doubt about that. On the Kapampangan people, I'll help build the list as soon as my Encyclopedia of Kapampangan Biogaphies is published. Ivanhenares 14:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Segue, I noticed in that article and template, Tribal groups of the Philippines, I took the liberty of moving it to Indigenous peoples of the Philippines, to be politically correct. UN conventions as well as Philippine laws refer to them as "indigenous" rather than tribal. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 15:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

What a silly old person you are, Ivan. To include anyone like Judy Ann or Jamby Madrigal is irrelevant! You keep on saying they have a grandparent from San Fernando, thus easily placing them in the list. So you mean to say that since Jamby's Madrigal clan came from Bicol area, she'll be regarded a Bicolana at once? You're tickling our funny bones here, Ivan. I am a Kapampangan myself but I don't agree with you to include anyone not even born nor raised in your city.

Aside from her grandparents Jose Abad Santos and Amanda Teopaco, Jamby's mother Amanda Teopaco Abad Santos was born and raised in San Fernando, spoke fluent Kapampangan, and is 100% Fernandino. Jamby considers herself Fernandino too. I can also use myself as an example. I was born and raised in Manila, but I consider myself 100% Fernandino. In fact, I have already won the Most Outstanding Kapampangan and The Outstanding Fernandino awards. Are you denying me of my right to be call myself Fernandino? I vote here, I live here! If a Kapampangan was born in the best hospital in Manila, does that mean he or she is no longer Kapampangan because he or she was not born in Pampanga? If a Kapampangan was raised in Manila because he or she was sent to the best schools there, does that mean he or she is no longer Kapampangan? Stop vandalizing the San Fernando article you silly old person. And don't call me old because I'm not even 30! Ivanhenares 06:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Look people, IMHO if there's a criteria that we should use in these cases is if a person was born, lived or resided there. If they consider themselves "Fernandino" but didn't live, wasn't born or resided at CoSF, it should be at the Kampampangan people article, not at the City of San Fernando, Pampanga article. --Howard the Duck 13:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I get what you mean. At the same time, I just got fed up with the sarcasm because there are nicer ways to say things unlike the way that "silly old person" who knows nothing but showbiz makes points here. To me, the attack is personal since a contributor with good intentions wouldn't use "Calling Ivan" as a subject here.
Anyway, I was just using one of the criterion used in Pampanga (such as in the MOKA, TOFA, etc.) to determine who is from Pampanga, or from San Fernando... that is one parent must have been born in Pampanga, or in particular, San Fernando. I guess there's a different criteria here in Wikipedia. But then again, there are cases like GMA. She's from Lubao right? She votes there meaning she technically "lives" there. But in reality, she has never lived nor resided in Lubao if you know what I mean. That's why "lived/resided" can also be problematic. If I lived in the US for one year, does that make me eligible to say I'm American? Ivanhenares 19:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
No. You're from the United States. That's why we have separate categories like Category:People from Pampanga and Category:Kapampangan people. Actually, if you're a voter in that place, technically you reside there, so PGMA can be included in both categories. That's why I go for the born/lived/resided criteria for "People from <xxxx>" and use the blood relationship from "<Xxxx> people". --Howard the Duck 04:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Exactly my point. I used "Notable Fernandinos" in the article and not "People from San Fernando." If I used "People from San Fernando," I really would not have put Judy Ann or Jamby in it. Ivanhenares 19:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Last time I checked "Fernandinos" wasn't an ethnic group. Either it should be renamed into people from San Fernando, or that list be transfered to Kapampangan people. --Howard the Duck 05:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Calling Ivan

To Ivan Henares, please don't mess up the article on San Fernando. I know that you work for the local government but make it as reliable and credible as possible. Some facts you may insert or change need to have a back-up link to support your statements. Otherwise, it's considered vandalism. Thanks, Cabalen!  :) Fernandino —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 15:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

Another anonymous commenter. Judy Ann Santos is my third cousin in the Dayrit family. You don't even have your facts right since her mother, as far as I know, is not Kapampangan. Her father, Manuel Dayrit Santos is from San Fernando, Pampanga and makes her eligible to even with the Most Outstanding Kapampangan Award. She's in our list of Famous Fernandinos because the list includes parentage. I simply copied some names from that list and put it there. And don't go telling me I'm messing up the San Fernando article because most of the info there came from me. Ivanhenares 13:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

So is that basically the reason why you included the Dayrit clans in this so-called "notable Fernandinos?" Am I smelling any partiality here? Likewise, don't go telling me as to when "Abad Santos Day" is cause I was raised in Dolores, San Fernando so I should know. What I don't get is that most of the people in the said list are not even popular at all, with the exeption of Jose Abad Santos, I may have to say.

You're from Dolores? You're a disgrace since you don't know your local history. From your edits, we could see it's all showbiz. It seems only showbiz personalities are popular to you. You don't know who Nicolasa Dayrit is? There, I posted the article used in the CoSF. Are you really from San Fernando? September 10, Nicolasa Dayrit's birthday, was declared San Fernando Women's Day. To everyone, please ban and from posting. Keeps on vandalizing the articles by putting question marks. Thank you. Ivanhenares 06:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Cool it, both of you. As for the anonymous editor, I'd suggest that you register your own account on WP (read this for more information) because, frankly, if you get reported to the admins and your IP address eventually gets banned and happens to be shared by other people within the same Internet connection (for example, if you're in an Internet)...kawawa naman sila at hindi makakapag-edit sa Wikipedia. --- Tito Pao 05:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
So you're implying that all 30 year-old folks and above are OLD? Ivan, don't you think you're being discriminating? That rude statement is a "slur" as you are making a derogatory remark against 30 year-old peeps by calling them "old." That's absolutely mockery.
Well, you don't have to tell us you're young and claim you're not even in your 30s because honestly, your actuations would simply depict you as a young brat kid. Worse, you even implicate other people by daring them to ban all my edits just because they don't conform with your standards. It only goes to show then how immature you are. I'm in my early 20s but fortunately, I don't act like you do.
You're saying that all my edits are "nothing but showbiz" but look who's talking, fellow Cabalen? Who placed Judy Ann Santos in your so-called "Famous Fernandinos" in the first place, huh? Uh-oh...certainly not me! The moderator already suggested you not putting Judy Ann or Jamby but you kept on inserting them in the list. Now, ain't that being showbiz to you, buddy?
In addition, you brag that you work for the local government of San Fernando and that you even won several awards/merits, yet you're acting unbecoming of a government official. Tsk tsk!
If I may have offended you, in any way, then I do apologize but I'd appreciate you stop calling me names and making fun of people in their 30s by describing them as "old."
If you describe me as a "disgrace" to my Cabalens in Dolores Homesite, SFP (where I grew up, though I already moved here in the US), then what are YOU now? I don't have to tell you. Your words and actuations would simply say what kind of an individual you are.
Oh, by the folks here have to say you're downright pansy by simply deleting my replies? I don't wanna think you are as I know you're one educated person. Please, be fair and man enough to accept comments from others. Hope it isn't too much to ask. Thank you. Cabalen08 21:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Cabalen08
Before things get out of hand, let me introduce you to another common Wikipedia acronym that every well-meaning editor should know: NPA (no, not that NPA). Remember that we're here to build encyclopedia articles, not question the capabilities or credibilities of each other (unless it's something like this one). There are other, more civil ways to settle your disagreements. Above all, assume good faith. Thank you. --- Tito Pao 05:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Calling you names? Do I have to remind you that you started all these derogatory remarks by calling me a "silly old person"? Conform to my standards? I'm talking about Wikipedia standards. Since when did placing "???" all over an article become valid in Wikipedia? It's vandalism! Now ask any editor here whether placing "??????" in an article is vandalism or not. And I'm not a government official. I'm a student. Unlike you, I follow the moderators' instructions. Contrary to your lies, I did not place Judy Ann back after they said no. I'm also in my 20s and fortunately, I do not act like a Fil-Am brat. This is my last post on the topic since replying to you is a waste of time, energy and effort, in other words, outright useless. We have much better and productive things to do here in the Philippines, things that benefit our country. Good day! Ivanhenares 04:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

You have "better and productive" things to do in our country? Whew! That somehow relieves me, Ivan. Then prove it, by not putting "showbiz" personalities in your "FAMOUS FERNANDINOS" list...showbiz figures who don't even come from our city in San Fernando, though you claim they do. I ain't acting like a Fil-Am brat, Cabalen. I'm only practicing my right to voice out my opinion, just as anyone of any nationality.

Just so you know, I don't see anything wrong with the idea of placing showbiz folks in the list of "notable people" as long as they contributed to the society and have made big names in foreign countries... something the Philippines can be truly proud of. Salamat dacal queca, Kong Ivan.

Vectorization of seals

In Flag of Bohol fashion, I have an idea on how to (partially) resolve problems over the PhilippinesGov template. Unfortunately, I cannot do this, but if someone is willing to vectorize the provincial, city and Presidential seals (recreate even), then I think we can partially get the license problems resolved. What do you think? --Sky Harbor 19:57, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Nah, it'll still be under copyright. See Commons:Commons:derivative works. No go until Congress amends the law. And I thought someone from here told us it can be done. I was right all along. --Howard the Duck 12:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
From what I understood, the government is not claiming the copyright of their work. They only restricted the commercial re-use. If someone replicated the design, does commercial re-use of the derivative work still restricted? --bluemask (talk) 04:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
But if you upload a derived work to Wikipedia, it will be commercially re-used with all of those Wikipedia rip-offs. --Howard the Duck 16:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I am confused by the Intellectual Property Code's derivative copyright provisions (Section 173), which says the following:
Section 173. Derivative Works. – 173.1. The following derivative works shall also be protected by copyright:
(a) Dramatizations, translations, adaptations, abridgments, arrangements, and other alterations of literary or artistic works; and
(b) Collections of literary, scholarly or artistic works, and compilations of data and other materials which are original by reason of the selection or coordination or arrangement of their contents. (Sec. 2, (P) and (Q), P.D. No. 49)
173.2. The works referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) of Subsection 173.1 shall be protected as new works: Provided, however, That such new work shall not affect the force of any subsisting copyright upon the original works employed or any part thereof, or be construed to imply any right to such use of the original works, or to secure or extend copyright in such original works. (Sec. 8, P.D. 49; Art. 10, TRIPS)
It does not address individual works per se, but I think it says that derivatives can be re-copyrighted as new works as long as it does not affect the original copyright, or we claim no copyright at all. --Sky Harbor 19:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Confusing talaga. Does Philippine Government owns the copyright of its work? (The Intellectual Property Code says its not but it controls commercial re-use.) What exactly does it control, the actual work (i.e. the JPG or GIF from a government website) or the design of the seal? Is making a derivative from the non-copyrighted work can be re-copyrighted? --bluemask (talk) 04:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't know anymore. I think it says that derivatives of existing works can be re-copyrighted as long as it does not affect the copyright of the existing work (i.e. if there's no copyright, a derivative cannot be made to extend an expired copyright). Whoever made the derivative can re-copyright it, as long as it does not affect the status of the original. --Sky Harbor 14:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Sabah instead of Malaysia

Will it sit well with everyone if we'd use Sabah instead of Malaysia whenever our Philippine maps would display that part of Malaysian territory? This is what is NAMRIA is doing. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 08:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

How about Malaysia is a big bold text then directly under it we add a more discreet "SABAH"? --Howard the Duck 11:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I read about it several years ago I forget where, that since the Philippines is disputing Sabah, naming the area as Malaysia is one way of conceding that we fully recognize Malaysian sovereignty over the area, thus NAMRIA maps label the area as Sabah rather than Malaysia. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 14:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
That's why we'd have 2 POVs, we add "Malaysia" but we also add "Sabah". After all, Malaysia currently controls Sabah, and it is an administrative division. --Howard the Duck 14:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
How about a bigger SABAH and smaller MALAYSIA? --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 15:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
How about having the same sizes? --Howard the Duck 16:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, using just "Sabah" is neutrally ambiguous, so I think it fits the NPOV policy. We're not showing Taiwan, and the Indonesian island to the south is too small to be labelled, so we're not "singling" out Sabah. I'll modify the maps I've created maybe this weekend (thank God it's a long weekend). --seav 16:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
How about if it is just called Borneo? --Howard the Duck 16:21, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Should be Sabah. Berserkerz Crit 17:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Nueva Ecija maps

I commented about this in the discussion pages of the towns of Nueva Ecija. All the maps of the cities and municipalities of Nueva Ecija have the same error. Tarlac should be labeled as Pampanga. Pangasinan should be labeled as Tarlac. And Benguet should be labeled as Pangasinan. The error is obvious since Benguet does not border Nueva Ecija. Ivanhenares 13:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

(I've brought it here at the bottom as per the rules around here.)
I've contacted the creator of those maps and I hope he's working on it, but it seems his base files were deleted. --Howard the Duck 13:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
That should be an easy fix, especially if he remembers what font he used. And Ivan, welcome to Tambayan and Wikipedia. Another familiar face from YahooGroups! :-) --Chris S. 22:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
It's my first time here, sorry about that. I was just surprised about that comment which brought me to this page. Commenter left it all over the place, even in my talk page. I didn't see it as such a big fuss and I have my sources (books, articles, etc.) with me to prove what I contribute to Wikipedia. Does the commenter even have to put my name in the subject? Ivanhenares 14:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Chris S. Are you talking about the Hispano-Filipino YahooGroup? I left after a short dose of reading the heated debates. How do you make the maps in Wikipedia btw? Ivanhenares 10:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Secure your passwords!

Ever wonder why clicking on the "Log-in" link gives you a different message these days? Read this for more information (or rather, you must read it). And while you're at it, please, please consider strengthening your password now...consider replacing your password if it contains your name, your birthday, your ATM's PIN number, your address, or any related information about your family and friends =) --- Tito Pao 08:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I was still shocked by the "Encyclopedia my ass" picture a few days ago, as well as the blanking of the Main Page. I ran to the Tagalog Wikipedia and Wiktionary for Anyways, I'm always logged on, so I find it quite irrelevant, but then again, it's a good suggestion. --Sky Harbor 19:56, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Philippine Nebula

Philippine Nebula has been nominated for deletion... it's not very related to the islands, but somewhat is... 22:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Link to PhilWiki


Can we put a link to PhilWiki in the noticeboard? It's not a very active mailing list, but some things related to Philippine Wikipedias are coordinated there. (Well, hopefully.) --Bentong Isles 11:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I guess we can. I can use it for meetup notifications. --Sky Harbor 13:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

TAGALOG Wikipedia

Inviting Native Tagalog Speakers, you can also contribute in the Tagalog Wikipedia. --Mananaliksik 15:18, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Many of us do already, but some are inactive. Others refuse. --Sky Harbor 19:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Will try, but frankly, the level of Tagalog/Filipino used in the Tagalog Wikipedia is too deep for my taste/capabilities. I'm thinking this is the same reason many/some of us Filipino wikipedians don't really contribute to it much. Shrumster 05:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Quick counts

Are the quick counts necessary to be shown here? Philippine general election, 2007 --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 09:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Only the NAMFREL ones were included at the previous elections, although I'd recommend other quick counts for the early days, when we get official results we can discard them except NAMFREL. --Howard the Duck 13:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
So let's nominate those other templates for deletion then? --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 15:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Who created those anyway? It won't be needed anyway in the long run. --Howard the Duck 16:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Other than the NAMFREL quick count tally, no, no and a big, big NO. In the articles about US elections, do you see any of those exit polls by CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and Fox TV? In the recently-concluded French elections, do you see other similar unofficial counts other than from the government? --- Tito Pao 01:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Well those elections get to have their victors announced within a week; ours are within a month. --Howard the Duck 02:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Let's just remove all other quick counts other than NAMFREL, it's the official citizen's arm sanctioned by COMELEC. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 06:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm in favor but not now. Maybe after a week we can remove ABS-CBN's, PPCRV's and GMA's quick counts, but for the time being when there are no numbers released yet it'll give an idea where we're at. --Howard the Duck 06:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Rizalninoynapoleon added an announcement on the Tambayan's main page that says "Philippine Senator Richard Gordon has asked Tambayan prevent deletion of the media quick counts which must tackled immediately". Is this true? I tried looking this up at news websites but I was unable to find this. --- Tito Pao 06:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm reverting it unless he can provide a source. TheCoffee 07:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Excerpt from the email he sent to me is with Titopao which is the valuable information therefore we will end proposals to delete the media quick counts Rizalninoynapoleon 16:07, 15 May 2007
For everone's benefit, I'll reprint the quoted email here:
Mr. Lopez i have noticed the 2007 elections page of WIKIPEDIA 
of the regards to the quick counts, i am asking if you can tell 
your group known as the TAMBAYAN PHILIPPINES to tell its members 
to stop their proposals of deletion since it is against the 
Amending Modernization Act and against the right to information.
I hope so action this as soon as possible. Sincerely yours: Sen.
Richard Gordon
Personally, if you ask me, since the Wikimedia office and the Wikimedia servers are located in the US, and since we are bound by the TOS of WP and its policies and guidelines, we must first decide on a consensus. If the entire Tambayan community has a consensus to not include the quick count results, then we have to disagree with Sen. Gordon and have the quick count results deleted from the article since Wikipedia is technically covered by US laws (by the laws of the State of Florida, if you want to be very specific). (Unless Sen. Gordon makes a call to Wikimedia Foundation office and the WMF office takes office action, that is.) Or, as a compromise, we can have links to each quick count's website since this information tends to change by the minute (or at least by the hour). But if the community decides on including the quick count results, then I have no objections. --- Tito Pao 08:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
ADDENDA I took a look at the text of the Amendment to the Election Modernizations Act and I was unable to find the exact information that Sen. Gordon is referring to. Any references to the word "Website" refers to the COMELEC's website and not to other websites such as Wikipedia, and all other references refer to local publications. Or maybe I was also misreading everything? For additional resources, I also tried to look up at a list of election offenses, as summarized by a lawyer-blogger in one of his so-called "blog lectures" (this isn't allowed under WP:A, but it gives us a good summary of current election violations). I have also posted a related question for opinions by disinterested parties. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 08:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Neverthless, there should stay up to the point when they do not update their figures. If they start using NAMFREL's numbers then that's the time they should be taken down. The quick counts can be seen on other websites and the page history anyway. --Howard the Duck 10:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Tambayan i am asking you let the quick counts to stay for they are valuable information though partial and unofficial besides TEAM Unity deputy spokesperson Tonypet Albano is criticizing the media quick counts who knows if there will be electoral fraud this can be used as evidences, so think over -- Rizalninoynapoleon 15:28, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I for one doubt that we have to oblige with that resolution. We go by WP rules and US laws, and user consensus. I swing towards removing all counts except the official (comelec) and the namfrel unofficial quick count (the only accredited citizen's arm). But in the meantime we can use the media quick counts until Namfrel comes up with a more definitive quick count. Berserkerz Crit 11:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
We go by consensus. So regardless of what Sen. Gordon has told you (or, for that matter, I don't care if it was PGMA herself), we'll stick with the consensus: only the COMELEC and the NAMFREL count should survive. Per my suggestion, we may only link to the other quick counts. --- Tito Pao 11:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't conduct its own count anyway so if the media outlets stop issuing updates to their counts, there's nothing to report so it'll be removed in the long run. --Howard the Duck 13:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
With regard to this supposed email from Senator Gordon, i don't think Philippine jurisprudence covers wikipedia, since the server is not in the Philippines. It's like forcing me to pose the results of all the media quick counts in my personal website, if I posted the NAMFREL quick count results. One unofficial quick count would suffice, so as not to confuse non-Filipinos. Perhaps we can just have under the See also section a link to the media quick count websites. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 14:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Not to demean Senator Gordon but I find it laughable that he thinks Philppine law is enforceable here in Wikipedia. Although I do commend him for even knowing Wikipedia. Berserkerz Crit 15:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be a lot of misunderstanding about law. While I have no idea about the specific law in this case nor am I an expert on law, I'm pretty sure any countries' laws can cover whatever it wants to. For example, court decisions in Australia (and I believe several European countries) have held that people can be held responsible in Australian courts for libeling an Australian via the internet even if they themselves don't live in Australia (see Slander and libel). This is an area of law with a great deal uncertainty (you might want to look at decisions regarding swastikas and the like in European countries too). Anyway, my point is it's possible that the law will apply to wikipedia. As the wikipedia servers are located in Florida and so is the foundation, enforcing them may be difficult. But for example, a court could order the servers be blocked in the Phillipines. And if any of the wikimedia foundation members were to ever visit the Phillipines perhaps they could be arrested. Any assets the foundation may have in the Phillipines could be seized. I'm not saying any of this is likely to happen (I don't think it is) or that we should obey what the Senator alleged said. I think we should just make a decision as we normally would and not let the e-mail influence us either way. I'm simply pointing out that the idea that the law doesn't apply to wikipedia because the servers are located in Florida is flawed. Someone who actually knows the law could perhaps better explain whether it's likely or not but in absence of that it's silly to say it surely doesn't because it may. BTW, is there any reason to assume this e-mail is genuiene? It seems awfully informal and sloppily written for a request from a Senator... Nil Einne 17:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Rizalninoynapoleon makes things up anyway (see Template talk:Philippine elections), and in the long run, when nobody cares anymore, the quick counts will be taken down, even by GMA and ABS-CBN. NAMFREL does keep a record of their counts though. And I think even ABS ended their media count already and instead would be relying on NAMFREL's, and eventually, COMELEC's numbers; GMA would sure to follow suit by tomorrow. --Howard the Duck 18:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Point taken, I'm currently writing an email to Sen. Gordon (the email address can be found here) to settle the matter. But honestly speaking, I was also thinking along those lines since I can't verify anything related to WP on the Election Modernization Act. And I'm still for sticking to consensus, in spite of anything. --- Tito Pao 22:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

(resetting indent) As if this wasn't enough: apparently, the COMELEC requested TV networks to stop conducting "unauthorized" quick counts. (This is just an initial report, but I'm sure a more definitive report will follow.) Nevertheless, this is what I and other editors have been saying all along: these unofficial (and "unauthorized") quick counts are unencyclopedic and do not deserve space on WP. If the COMELEC itself disputes these quick count's authority or validity, then so must we. In the meantime, I haven't received a reply from Sen. Gordon's email address, but as soon as I got a response, I'll let you know. --- Tito Pao

Slightly OT - Hmm...'unencyclopedic'. That's the perfect word that applies to these unofficial and unsanctioned counts that certain media outlets have been conducting. Sigh. If only the electorate were familiar with Wikijargon. Shrumster 05:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
There are suggestions at Talk:Philippine general election, 2007 to rip off an article containing both the GMA and ABS-CBN counts. Let your voice be heard there. --Howard the Duck 05:51, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Update on the alleged email from Sen. Gordon

Just want to let everyone know about this...after all the brouhaha over this email that was supposedly sent by Sen. Richard Gordon, Rizalninoynapoleon has recognized that the email is a fake. However, the response he gave me was very vague...did someone inform him? did he receive another email? did he contact Sen. Gordon? (And, as other fellow Wikipedians might have put it, did he even make up this one?)

Regardless of whatever anyone wants to say about this, this latest development leaves some questions lingering in my mind:

  1. First, by recanting something that others view as his fabrication, what is he trying to prove? That he could come up with something to prove his point and flout consensus?
  2. Second, since he himself acknowledged that the email is a fake, was he aware of the possible legal consequences of his actions, especially that this involved the name of a public official, let alone a nationally-elected public official? Or was he even thinking carefully before he acted?
  3. Third, did he even take steps to verify his sources? Right from the start, there were doubts about the email, in both form (i.e. the sloppily-written language) and substance (the email made Sen. Gordon look like he didn't know what he was talking about, or that he didn't even bother to consult his legal researchers). Having now said that he "found out" that the email was a fake, he should at least given Sen. Gordon's office a call---hell, even a Grade One student can Google the phone number and email address of senators and congressmen. At least, as far as I can remember, Ate P took steps to contact Cong. (soon-to-be) Sen. Chiz Escudero's staff, who provided additional published references.

Rizalninoynapoleon want me to "end" this issue "as soon as possible." Sorry, I can not just let this pass just like that. Sorry na lang ba? Because, after all, everyone is entitled to the truth. What you sow, you go and face the music --- Tito Pao 01:21, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

ADDITIONAL UPDATE. Senator Gordon's office has spoken. Please see this: (I've obscured some details to protect the privacy of my contact; however, Chris S., Ate P and Bolanon can confirm that I do have a GMail email address. Thanks --- Tito Pao 01:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Se I told you that guy makes up things. --Howard the Duck 01:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, we all know that...except that, this time, Sen. Gordon's staff now knows about this, too. (I hope his media handlers didn't.) That is a problem. And look what this guy did to us >=( --- Tito Pao 03:23, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Such behavior should not be tolerated. -- • Kurt Guirnela •Talk 04:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I second that one. And his edits must be closely monitored for veracity. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 12:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi all, what action will Wikipedia take against that fake e-mail? Just curious since I know Louis Pawid and Dick G. personally. Thanks! Ivanhenares 15:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
None that I can think of for now, since there's nothing similar to a Penal Code here on WP (in the very literal sense). However, since this is just another incident of catching Rizalninoy's hand in the cookie jar (and it almost becomes a pattern), the consensus so far is that anything that he says or edits should be scrutinized and monitored closely (even if it's true), especially some of his edits compromise the more important policies on Wikipedia. --- Tito Pao 00:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Pinoy Wiki Roll-Call

Who: Wikipedia Contributors, Administrator(s), Readers
What: First Informal Meeting
Where: Kenny Rogers, SM Megamall Building A, Mandaluyong City, Metro Manila
When: May 20, 2007 1:00 PM
How (to participate):

1) Post responses on this forum
2) Yahoo Group: PhilWiki

--Exec8 09:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


  • Present! --seav 11:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Now (Present)! Berserkerz Crit 20:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Not withstanding any unforeseen circumstances, I will be present =) --- Tito Pao 01:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Not sure. If I get there after church and not be lost in the process. Kelangan me libreng bucket meal muffin ha! (joke) --Lenticel (talk) 01:47, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Present Ü --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 01:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Per his comment below, Kgargar will be coming. Please feel free to delete this line if this is not the case. Thanks! Please see below =) --- Tito Pao 03:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Count me in! --Kgargar 07:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Per his comment way, way up, Jojit_fb will make it. Please post all your confirmations on this section instead of elsewhere. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 08:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Sorry, I didn't see this. Anyway, I will be there. --Jojit fb 12:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Present--Jondel 12:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Damn, buti na lang nakita ko 'to before Sunday. :P I'll try to make it. Shrumster 05:26, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Hopefully you can make would be our first reunion in...dang, I can't remember! It must be almost eleven years? =P (For those who don't know...Shrumster was my classmate in grade school :) --- Tito Pao 05:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
  • No Internet at the house (as in yes, I'm in Manila now) but yes, I'll go. Keep me in touch with my cell (available on my user page). Can someone print the Articles of Incorporation from Meta (and all the other stuff I need)? --Sky Harbor 07:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Not coming

  • I will not be coming but I will help in whatever way I can. For those who believe in prayer, I'll pray for you :) --Bentong Isles 11:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
  • But I will be there in spirit. ^_^ TheCoffee 03:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Sira kasi yung bangka ko, eh. ;-) --Chris S. 01:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Unable to attend - venue too far away from Bacolod City. =) To your success! -- • Kurt Guirnela •Talk 01:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • May I know kung ano-ano ang mga agenda sa pagti-tipong ito? I won't be able to join you pero mas maganda siguro kung naka-post din ang ditalye para magkaroon din ng ideya ang ibang hindi makakadalo (pwede rin kaming makatulong, kahit pinansyal, joke). Fddfred talk 09:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Most of it were already mentioned above. In particular, the meat of the conversation will be about the proposal to incorporate the Philippine chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation. --- Tito Pao 11:38, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Unable to attend currently on vacation in New York, but I really wish I could come... too bad... anyways maybe I could go if there's another one. -chris^_^ 13:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Sana ay maging matagumpay ang pagtitipon ninyo. (Mula sa Tagalog Wikipedia) --Mananaliksik 04:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Wish I could, but I'm currently hibernating. Buena suerte con vosotros! (oops this is a late post hahaha. Better late then never!) --Weekeejames 15:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Response from exec8

I hope this would push through this time. I am expecting 5 in attendance but if would go higher, the better. There are things to talk about and doing this at 1:00pm is good since some would go from Prayer Meetings and Masses while others have work to do the following day. I pose a challenge to you. The first one who shook my hand libre, my treat. --Exec8 09:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...okay, call ako jan. If you ask me to be there at 1pm, I can make it there earlier than anyone else (i.e. not later than 30 mins. before the time). Problem is, how do we know it's you? ;-) --- Tito Pao 11:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I think we should append to our "present" signatures what we will wear or look like or distinct recognizable feature. Berserkerz Crit 15:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll bring a paper with a wikipedia logo on it. --Exec8 21:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll wear a yellow shirt, blue jeans, a pair of sneakers and---take note of this---I have long hair =) If any one of you can't recognize me by that, then I don't know what ;-) --- Tito Pao 22:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey someone bring a camera and upload a pic or two for the rest of us. :P TheCoffee 23:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

We still have no response from Sky Harbor, his presence is important. --Exec8 05:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm going already (as long as nothing goes wrong and my dad lets me because I have to pack for Singapore the next day). --Sky Harbor 07:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment by Kgargar

Sana maging matagumpay itong First Informal Meeting ng Filipino wikipedians. See you people! Kgargar 00:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Just so that we'll have an accurate head count, could you please sign your name on the list above? Thanks! :) --- Tito Pao 01:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Some questions

  • What will be our agenda there?
  • How long would the meeting last?
  • Should we contribute for a group meal or eat individually or eat before the meeting (I talked my family into coming due to the job fair and as a family outing so baka mauna na kami kumain)?
  • Who will bring the camera (I don't have one)?
  • Asan na muffin ko?


for those who have no jobs yet (like me), there is a job fair at the megatrade hall 1. So bring your resume, para may kasama ako hehe.--Lenticel (talk) 07:53, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

  1. Matters pertaining to the establishment of the Wikimedia Foundation, Philippine Chapter (prolly the priority topic)
  2. Copyright matters (re fair use)
  3. Article Standards
  4. Wikiproject Philippines (on the Tagalog Wikipedia and elsewhere)
Other topics can also be discussed when we're there, but for now these are the three items that always come up. --- Tito Pao 08:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Pinoy Wikimeetup - roundup

Since we have more than five Wikipedians who have indicated their interest in showing up tomorrow, I'd decided to make a round-up of the details for this meeting:


  • WHO: Wikipedia Contributors, Administrator(s), Readers
  • WHAT: First Informal Meeting
  • WHERE: Kenny Rogers, Ground Floor, SM Megamall Building A, Mandaluyong City, Metro Manila. However, per, Exec8, if Kenny's is fully packed, we'll just meet up there and then look for another place, as this is an informal meeting.
Not a lot of people should be having coffee at that time, starbucks and seattle's best are just nearby. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 10:30, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
  • WHEN: May 20, 2007 1:00 PM


  1. Berserkerz Crit
  2. Exec8
  3. Kgargar
  4. Jojit_fb
  5. Jondel
  6. Lenticel
  7. Scorpion prinz (Would be coming around 1.30pm)
  8. seav
  9. Shrumster
  10. Sky Harbor (Might be late, but hopefully not too late)
  11. And yours truly, Tito Pao ;-)


  1. Bentong Isles
  2. Chris S. - is abroad and, per his comments, his boat is broken :)
  3. Fddfred
  4. Kurt Guirnela - is in Bacolod
  5. Mananaliksik
  6. Pikdig / chris^_^ - in New York
  7. TheCoffee ("but I will be there in spirit ^_^")


  • Matters pertaining to the establishment of the Wikimedia Foundation, Philippine Chapter (prolly the priority topic)
  • Copyright matters (re fair use)
  • Article Standards
  • Wikiproject Philippines (on the Tagalog Wikipedia and elsewhere)
  • Other matters

I'll try to bring a print-out of the related posts/discussions related to these agenda. Please feel free to bring your own notes, as well as anything that you think can help us with our discussion.

(And per Lenticel, please feel free to bring your own resumes in case you want to come to the Inquirer Jobfair ;-)

If there's anything that I missed, or if you'd like to add your name to the list of people who will or will not attend, or if you want to add another possible agendum for the meet-up, please let me know...I'd like to include it in my notes.

Thanks and see you very, very soon! (",) --- Tito Pao 05:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok i'll bring a camera. Do we need to discuss 501 Pesos + VSOP?, if you know what I mean. --Exec8 11:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

*The* meet-up

'guys hindi ko kayo nakita. Naiinis na kasi yung nanay ko so kelangan kong maagang umalis. I stayed in Kenny Rogers until about 1:30 but I did not see any Wikipedian :(. Anyways, the jobfair was OK. I hope you had a great time. —Lenticel (talk) 07:08, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

That's okay, since we're still keen on convoking a second meet-up, after about a few months. We decided that the rest of the discussion should be continued online first so that everyone else who have expressed their interest to help establish Wikimedia Philippines. --- Tito Pao 08:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I would like to thank seav, Berserkerz Crit, Jojit_fb, Jondel, Tito Pao from attending the kenny rogers meeting and to Scorpion prinz and Sky Harbor from catching up in the starbucks meeting. The meeting was lengthy but its meaty. We are actually seated near the entrance of kenny rogers in Ground Floor, Mega Building A from 1 to 3pm and inside starbucks at around 3pm onwards. As expected we wore our designated shirt colors. There was a wikipedia logo in our dining table. --Exec8 12:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks also for the lunch, Exec8. By the way, here are some of the pictures in the meet-up. It’s nice meeting you all guys. I hope that we will be able to established Wikimedia Philippines. --Jojit fb 14:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Can someone reserve the org name for me? A person has to be at least 18 to register a name. You can register at the SEC website; just remember that we are classified as a foundation. --Sky Harbor 16:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
So sorry about missing the meeting. I uh...kinda woke up at 3pm. :P Shrumster 18:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the lunch, too! :-) --- Tito Pao 08:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Can someone add a caption on the image description page so I can tell who's who? Thanks. :D TheCoffee 03:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I did :) --- Tito Pao 08:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Isang matagumpay na pagbati sa lahat ng dumalo sa isang Makasaysayang Katuparan kahapon! Isa ito sa una at marami pang hakbang tungo sa inyong mabuti at malinis na adhikain para sa mga Pilipino sa buong mundo. Mabuhay Kayo! Fddfred talk 04:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, masakit yung tyan ko, kaso, libreng Ribs, ice cream, etc! Miraculously I was healed! (at nagutom- foodtrip :D !! ) Thanks Exec8!--Jondel 11:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
More pictures. Thanks Exec8 for the lunch! :) --seav 00:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Please accept my apology for not making it there. I look forward to hearing the minutes. Kgargar 03:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Di ako photogenic. Hehehe. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 05:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to everyone who attended. It was nice meeting you. More power to us and to the fruition of a Philippine chapter of Wikimedia. Berserkerz Crit 15:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Nice pics. Kakainggit! haha! Sige di bale, next time... Jondel, ikaw pala yun? Di ba taga Japan ka? :D --Weekeejames 15:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
'os ko! ang babata n'yo pa pala mga iho! one reason why i didn't join the meeting kase noong kapanahunan ko wala pang istarbaks at sumisikat pa lang noon si kenny rogers. Mabuhay kayong lahat! Fddfred 05:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Argh... just saw this... why did this have to happen at the height of my project crisis? :-P Took a look a the pics... did anyone else notice that there is no chick female person among us (or am I just not visiting WP:PINOY often enough)? This might make our articles prone to a macho systemic bias... hehe --Nino Gonzales 08:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Anong nangyare kay Ate Pinay? May naman chick naman dito ah! :D --Weekeejames 14:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Sad that I just saw this! :-( Wish I'd known. Unfortunately, though, I'm based in La Union so I wouldn't have been able to go anyway. It would have been great to meet you guys. Alternativity 04:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism on Alan Peter Cayetano

I noticed that the Inquirer ran a brief news report about this on their website. Just so that you may know, I have made a protection request for this article. Thanks! --- Tito Pao 06:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

That was's now protected (until 5/23)! =) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Titopao (talkcontribs) 06:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC).

Data on Philippine legislative districts

Anyone has a copy of the dataset used to produce the articles on Philippine legislative districts? --Bentong Isles 11:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Eddie Panlilio

COMELEC has just proclaimed that Fr. Eddie Panlilio (YEHEY! To end jueteng in Pampanga) as the new Governor of Pampanga. Howard, Scorpion and Others today is a day to end corruption and poverty and i ask that Among Ed should have a page he deserves it. Don't you second the motion rizalninoy 23:42, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a web discussion forum. --Howard the Duck 05:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Non sequitur. Whatever your misgivings about Rizalninoynapoleon, it does not invalidate his suggestion that Panlilio should have a Wikipedia article. (Remove all the opinionated cruft and you get a simple request.) I, for one, thinks that the priest is now notable enough to deserve a Wikipedia article. --seav 21:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Policy say we should avoid talk pages from becoming discussion forums (read the first sentence). As for a page, governors are notable, even big city mayors are. --Howard the Duck 08:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
If you believe Father Panlilio should have an article, then write it. Be bold! --Sky Harbor 08:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
You can get info from his website Ivanhenares 15:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Made the article's skeleton. Would appreciate it if some important fields in the infobox are filled up. --Lenticel (talk) 03:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I've added some stuff, mostly paraphrased from the official(?) website. Please feel free to add more :) --- Tito Pao 04:32, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

"New" proposal for the Tagalog Wikinews

The Tagalog Wikinews proposal has been refiled since the old proposal was closed in a "supposed" reform of the system. You may support the new proposal here. By the way, I need more contributors! --Sky Harbor 01:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

(maaari po bang ihayag din ninyo ito sa Tagalog Wikipedia? salamat po). Can you please announce this also in Tagalog Wikipedia? Thank you.--Mananaliksik 13:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I will announce the new proposal, pero sana naman hindi sinarado yung orihinal. --Sky Harbor 14:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

WMPH by-laws

The initial by-laws of Wikimedia Philippines are now available! You can view them here. Be sure to add on stuff and comment! --Sky Harbor 02:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey Sky Harbor, I saw your invitation at the Tambayan de los Chavacanos at the Chavacano Wikipedia. The Wikimedia Philippines page is great. I have translated the page to Wikimedia de las Filipinas. Great job! Hope this will push thru. Have you registered the foundation yet? --Weekeejames 14:40, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

As much as WMPH is my "brainchild" of sorts, I cannot register it. First, I have to be 18 or older (that's why we have the incorporators). Second, I need community commitment. Finally, we are P998,000 short with respect to working capital. Thanks for the translation though, although unless you intend to translate the documents into Chavacano, you should link them to the English versions first, especially since we only keep one member list. --Sky Harbor 06:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

New Philippines

Sorry, I couldn't help it. Texas was supposed to be the New Philippines. I know there are more appropriate places to mention this.--Jondel 06:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I think this would make a good article, provided we can get more sources and references for this. =) --- Tito Pao 08:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
A Palau traveler's guide, referred to the islands as Nueva Filipinas (includes Caroline Islands) too. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 11:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Very intersting. There are still other priorities as of now like translation of Bomburza. Then I 'll see if I can work on an article.--Jondel 06:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia: Where do we go from here?

Now that we agreed to setup the organization, Where do we go from here? Let's discuss. You can also visit the Pinoy Wikimedia Talk. --Exec8 10:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I need help to for my new page List of political clans in Philippines

I just bought a new book called Rulemakers made by the PCIJ it contains a list of political clans who were legislators from 1898 - 2007. I need help in making my article by making tables. Please help Rizalninoynapoleon 04:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC) Rizalninoynapoleon

It's not new, I have mine for 2 years now. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 17:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not in favor of the article since it the list will never end. What about just a section about political dynasties in the Politics of the Philippines. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 07:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Parokya ni Edgar

The Parokya article needs cleaning. Also, the sub-articles have a lack of information. I realize this is not a top priority, but it would be appreciated if someone knowledgeable about the band would contribute in some way. I unfortunately don't know enough to help myself. -KingpinE7 21:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

He's done it again.

Just take a look at this article. I couldn't find the original, though, but it does read like it was another copy-paste operation like what he did to the Tessie Aquino-Oreta and the Prospero Pichay articles. If someone can help me pinpoint the original article, I"d really appreciate it. Thanks! --- Tito Pao 07:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I scoured the net finding the verbatim for that one but I couldn't find it. --Howard the Duck 02:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Sigh... Kinausap ko na siya sa talk page nya. Matigas talaga ulo--Lenticel (talk) 07:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Completion of by-laws (and other WMPH stuff)

In order to get Wikimedia Philippines moving forward, we need to get two things done:

  1. Inspect the (now-completed) Bylaws and comment
  2. Inspect the Articles of Incorporation for anything inconsistent, and if ready, vote to approve or not. If approved, I will forward it to the Chapters committee.

Please do participate in the processes! To vote on whether to support or oppose the Articles of Incorporation, go here. --Sky Harbor 02:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

To add on: a new participants' list is available here. Those who signed on my old list have been moved to the new one (well, sort of). Feel free to sign up! --Sky Harbor 06:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Ogie Alcasid

At a glance, the article looks like it was lifted from the official website. patingin naman oh. I know the we have some copyright problems with GMA stars lately.--Lenticel (talk) 07:42, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I'll be placing a tag shortly on this article, and I'll make sure that it's on my watchlist. I'll try to edit this later once I'm home. --- Tito Pao 01:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
As you may have noticed by now---the article got speedied, and also the editor who did this it temporarily blocked. Hope someone will write a better article that's defnitely not copyvio'ed as this one. --- Tito Pao 14:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

President of the Philippines

The title of the President of the Philippines should be left blank as most Filipinos do no recognize the present presidency to be the legitimate one.

Go tell that to Al Gore. --Howard the Duck 13:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not the place to "proclaim the truth," or your version of it. LOL at the Gore comment... Manbearpig, I'm so serial!Sandtiger 20:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Affixing "Metro Manila" to City Addresses

I can't find a specific reference, but isn't it improper to add "Metro Manila" to city names, e.g.

Marikina City, 
Metro Manila, 

Well not really improper, but a bit syntactically awkward?? I believe adding Metro Manila is only required for Municipalities (San Juan, Navotas, and Pateros) but city addresses can be written as

Marikina City, Philippines

I remember having this discussion with my teacher when we had to make the transition from using "Marikina, Metro Manila" to "Marikina City, Philippines." If this is the case then some articles need to be fixed (List of shopping malls in the Philippines, for one).— Sandtiger 20:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Time Magazine even uses "Manila, the Philippines" on its letters to the editor section. With that said, all of the cities in MM are HUCs, and HUCs' naming convetion is to omit the province. --Howard the Duck 06:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Not necessarily: check Postal addresses in the Philippines. Adding "Metro Manila" to city postal addresses is acceptable by Philpost. --Sky Harbor 10:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Er... Pardon me, but what's an HUC? This particular argument naming convention is something I've been wondering about since High School. :-D Alternativity 05:00, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
HUC stands for Highly Urbanized City. --Sky Harbor 07:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I personally add "Metro Manila" to my Las Piñas address especially if I'll add "Philippines" at the end. I'd like to hear what other Metro Manileños think. --seav 14:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I've addressed mail to my great-uncle in Pasay as:

blah blah ST.
Pasay City

--Chris S. 03:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Threat of AFD

Quezon Avenue MRT Station is being threatened with AFD because there are no references for it (meaning that it is not notable). I highly doubt there is any literature on MRT stations for one thing. What should I do? --Sky Harbor 06:20, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Are other train stations threatened too? The MTV Ink magazine I have may save the day, lol. --Howard the Duck 06:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

All the information of Wikipedia is supposed to be based on reliable sources, so if there's no literature at all on MRT stations then that's a problem. I notice on the talk page you say the article is written based on actual experience of riding the system. That would make it a perfect example of Wikipedia:original research. TheCoffee 08:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Not necessarily: I can cite the MRTC website for certain things (ridership statistics, perhaps?), but I think it's wait-and-see time. Worse, it's already under AFD. --Sky Harbor 07:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Update: The AfD Debate was closed. The result of the debate was a keep. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 22:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

AfD on Jessie Castillo

Jessie Castillo has just shown up on AfD. The nominator seems to believe that the mayor is not notable. Unfortunately, there are few sources. Would it be possible for someone to add a few reliable sources to this? I'm not in the Philippines and can't find much online, but I strongly suspect that a mayor of a city of 300,000 people is highly notable. The AFD is here. --Charlene 10:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

IMHO, not all mayors are notable. Although Bacoor may be a big town, it dunno if being mayor of a place is enough. Where do we draw the line, anyway? I'd rather abstain on this one... --Howard the Duck 14:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Update The AfD debate has closed. The result was no consensus; hence, it may be nominated again in the future (if ever). Thanks. --- Tito Pao 22:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


Template:Philippine quasi-legislatures I nominated this template for {{TFD}}, apparently there's only 1 item in it. Other editors would rather have "experts" share their opinion before acting on it. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 21:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Kopong-kopong and Mahoma

Ok don't get me wrong, I'm just really curious about these two "icons" but I can't find good sources for them. Googling would only bring up Filipinos saying Panahon pa yan ni Kopong-kopong or 19Kopong-kopong pa yan.

There is a theory (from an internet forum) that Mahoma is the Spanish term for the prophet Mohammed. Since the Philippines have a Muslim background prior to the Spanish colonization, it might be concluded that the Spaniards use the term the "time of Mahoma" to characterize our "primitive" lifestyle and the term stuck. Sadly I don't have hard sources.

I have no idea who or what kopong-kopong is (alter ego of lapu-lapu?).

Anthropology and culture-inclined people, care for a challenge and research them?--Lenticel (talk) 02:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, "Mahoma" refers to the prophet Mohammed. The implied reference in the phrase panahon pa ni Mahoma was the introduction of Islam in the Philippines, which was in the 15th century. The implication is that if an information or a piece of news exists noong panahon pa ni Mahoma, it is so old that no one was old enough to remember (so to speak). My source for this was that four-volume uber-compilation of Filipino trivias aptly named "Pinoy Trivia" (by Bong Barrameda, who is credited as a consultant on the ABS-CBNgame show Game K N B?, but I can't remember which volume). As for "kopong-kopong"...I don't have an idea...I'll try looking it up if it exists in any dictionary. --- Tito Pao 02:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm familiar with the kopong-kopong or 19 kopong-kopong it all means "antiquity". --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 09:49, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Ah. But how did it come to mean "antiquity" in the first place? Try as I might, I can't come up with phonetic associations of kopong-kopong to any Filipino word indicating antiquity. (Kahapon is rather far fetched.) "Panahon ni Mahoma" and "Panahon ni Limahong" can be traced to specific people and specific events, from way back. It seems likely this phrase evolved in a similar manner. Hehe. A challenge indeed. But I seriously doubt anyone will ever find a documentable reference for the origin of this phrase. Alternativity 04:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
It's a colloquial jargon. --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 13:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


I know this may seem a bit odd to ask here, but who here is willing to donate anything to our chapter-in-formation (Wikimedia Philippines)? Donations will be accepted in cash or in kind. I'm ready to donate a mobile phone so the org can have a permanent telephone number (until we get a landline of course). --Sky Harbor 14:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

1K --Scorpion prinz (Talk | contribs) 21:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Minimum of 1k, hopefully I could give more --- Tito Pao 22:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm considering some office supplies (and if I can, some money as well). I wonder who can solicit donations for the org to third parties? --Sky Harbor 04:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I can donate computer parts (hard drive or memory or modem or whatever) and accessories or whatever if we need such for a start. Lemme know. I'll donate my cash when I get a new job :D Weekeejames 15:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
If we ever get a computer (functioning or otherwise), we need a regular office computer and a server. MediaWiki is best installed on a Linux-run server, so I will try to procure a copy of Bayanihan Linux 2006 from the guys at the DOST's Advanced Science and Technology Institute (ASTI). For a regular office computer, we either get a functioning computer (Windows, Mac or Linux), or we build one ourselves. --Sky Harbor 02:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Why is it difficult to be a Filipino for a Pangasinan?

Most of the inhabitants of the Philippines learned that Pangasinan province is in Ilocos region. They also learned that inhabitants of the Ilocos region are Ilocanos. According to this education (propaganda), the inhabitants of Pangasinan province are Ilocanos. This appear in elementary textbooks approved by Department of Education, which is an arm of the Philippine government.

The inhabitants of Pangasinan province right now are mostly Pangasinans and Ilocanos. The forefathers of Ilocanos were migrants from Ilocos Norte and Ilocos Sur in the 19th century due to drought experienced in those areas. Before this period, the Ilocanos were not inhabitants of Pangasinan province. For humanitarian reasons, the Pangasinans accepted them and did not drive them away. The term Pangasinan refers to the location and to the people, who are original inhabitants of the location.

The Philippine government decided to include Pangasinan province into the Ilocos region. By doing this, the Philippine government ignores a separate ethno-linguistic group in the Philippines. Until this is not corrected, it is difficult for a Pangasinan to become a Filipino, because the concept of "Filipino" ignores his being Pangasinan. What could the government do? It could continue to ignore the Pangasinan people. Or it correct the name of the region it belongs to, such that its name becomes "Northwestern Luzon Region". Or it removes Pangasinan province from the region it presently belongs to.

I have studied for a long time outside the Philippines. I could not be proud to be a Filipino, because being Filipino rejects the Pangasinan in me. How can anyone be proud to an oppressive concept? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Do not use Wikipedia as a messageboard/forum or a blog. Leave your gripes elsewhere, but not here. We're building an encyclopedia here. Thank you --- Tito Pao 05:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Tip: Try consulting your congressman or a senator from your place. Tell him/her of the problem and let him do something about it. Wikipedia can't force the government to do anything... and that's what the Congressmen and Senators do, not build more basketball courts. --Howard the Duck 06:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Let's get something featured

It has been nearly a year since we had a new Philippine-related Featured Article. How about getting Flag of the Philippines up to FA-status? There are already 9 other featured flag articles to follow the lead of-- most recently, Flag of Portugal and Flag of Armenia. In fact, the Armenia article got featured even with just 16KB of content and only 15 sources. The text of RA 8491 alone is enough to give us a lot of content on our flag. So, anyone care to join me? No need for structured outlines and division of labor, I think... just successive improvements that should bring us progressively closer to perfection. :D TheCoffee 06:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Good idea! Can we also add Lupang Hinirang to this list? Ate P originally initiated efforts to make this one a featured article, but for some reason there weren't any new follow-ups. I was working on a few sheet musics and an arrangement that I was intending to release to the public domain (yes, I'll be recording my voice on it, too ;) --- Tito Pao 06:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to get Philippine National Railways to FA status, but I have nothing on rolling stock and station layout, or even incidents and accidents. --Sky Harbor 06:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
May I suggest that we make a featured article on an endemic plant or animal species. We don't have a Phil. flora or fauna featured article yet. A nice start would be the Carabao or the Philippine Tarsier.--Lenticel (talk) 06:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, we can also work on the tarsier article. Ate P did most of the work and had it nominated for GA status, so I think we can improve on her work and help make it FA. Maybe we can also ask Shrumster to review the article; although he's a marine biologist, I think he has the basic expertise in general biology, his critiques will be very much appreciated. --- Tito Pao 06:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
We should, Shrumster and I worked on the Tamaraw article for GA or FA status, (postponed as of now due to lack of online info and free pictures). --Lenticel (talk) 09:30, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Tagalog Wikipedia

(Ipinababatid sa lahat ng gumagamit ng Wikipedia, na ang Tagalog Wikipedia ay umabot na sa mahigit 6,000 mga pahina.)

The Tagalog Wikipedia already reach more than 6,000 pages. --Mananaliksik 13:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Ay, salamat. Anong artikulo ba ang ika-6000 artikulo? --Sky Harbor 14:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Maaring ang artikulong tl:San Isidro, Davao del Norte ang ika-6000 na artikulo. --bluemask (talk) 15:27, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Melba Padilla Magay, Evangelical Anthropologist, Author,and CEO of ISACC - Notable?

Hi guys. I made a wiki a few days ago on Melba Padilla Maggay, the anthropologist, author, and President and Founder of the Institute for Studies in Asian Church and Culture (ISACC). I did not immediately cite sources, and frankly there aren't that many websites mentioning her which aren't directly connected to ISACC, and she's not very well known outside of Evangelical protestant circles. In the Evangelical community, however, Dr Maggay is rather well known, since her books are widely published by OMF Lit.

Well, someone questioned the notability of the article. I've since attempted to beef it up, but I've no idea if what I've done is sufficient. I would appreciate it if you could look at it and give me feedback? Thanks. Alternativity 14:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Better err on the side of caution; let's look at it on the perspective of the Filipino community or, in her religious community, the wider Evangelical community (say, on the national and maybe the international level). Honestly, I haven't heard of her, nor have I found enough G-hits to her name that could help boost the notability. --- Tito Pao 22:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Kguirnela's user page under attack

Just a heads up for the rest of the Tambayan...our fellow editor Kguirnela's user page and talk page are being subject to a repeated vandalisms from a single user/many users who's now using different IP addresses (probably hopping from one Internet cafe to another) to vandalize his user page (about five or six, as of my last count). This stemmed from an argument about a link that was repeatedly removed from the Bacolod City article, for which the original anon IP account was warned and eventually banned for 24 hours. Malas lang ng vandal because I've bookmarked Kurt's user page (as with many others), and Kurt's user page always comes up each time I refresh my watchlist. However, I may not always be around, as I may be away from home, out of the office or commuting. So may I ask everyone else to please lend him a hand in case this very resourceful anon comes back again; feel free to re-revert any vandalisms on his user page. Thanks. --- Tito Pao 07:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd prefer that Kurt's user and talk pages be locked for the time being. I think an admin would understand the circumstances. --Sky Harbor 08:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I know. When I wrote that one, I was on my way home, and I was expecting some retaliatory reverts (and apparently, it did happen). At any rate, I filed an WP:RFP myself, hope it gets acted upon soon. --- Tito Pao 09:31, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Voting extensions

Voting on the WMPH Articles of Incorporation has been extended until June 14. Unfortunately, no one (and I mean no one) voted in the original time period. Please do participate so I can forward the document to the Chapters committee. You may vote here. --Sky Harbor 02:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Voting has been extended to June 21, 2007. I need three more signatures (majority here is 50% plus one). --Sky Harbor 12:14, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Invitation to Gnome Week

For those interested...there is a current campaign for all the Wikignomes out there (you know who you are ;-) If you are interested, just visit the page, and then sign up as one of the volunteers (I signed up myself, btw). Thanks! --- Tito Pao 05:05, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


I guess this is the place to ask what the description ("Bahay kubo ng mga T'boli") means that is added to this image on tl.wikipedia. I have uploaded the image to commons by the way (see here). I know that Bahay kubo means Nipa hut and T'boli are a people on Mindanao. Magalhães 13:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

It means A T'boli nipa hut or literally, A nipa hut of the T'bolis. --Sky Harbor 14:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, that's not very exciting ;) Magalhães 15:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget to remove the apostrophe. It should just be Tboli. --Chris S. 03:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Okay. I will do. Magalhães 09:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)