Wikipedia talk:Verifiability
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WP:SOURCEACCESS issue[edit]
I understand that a rare book shouldn't be rejected as a source but offline sources create a verifiability burden that should be addressed. Anyone can verify online sources but paywalls and offline sources can be verified by few editors. I many times find that text doesn't match sources but likely I couldn't check offline and paywall sources. Thoughts? Thinker78 (talk) 03:31, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
- How would you propose addressing this? Nikkimaria (talk) 10:39, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe creating a yellow superscript that indicates the special status of the text? Because really some sources may even be inaccessible to all except to the editor who posted it. Thinker78 (talk) 22:56, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
- Almost nobody except editors ever looks at the sources, so a yellow superscript would introduce a difference (and the confusion that entails) without any real benefit for anyone except us, and we already know how to figure out which sources are paywalled or offline. Also, the status of a source varies by editor (it's available via Google Books in your country, but not mine) and by time (not searchable now, but it is searchable next time), so this would introduce a big maintenance hassle.
- Are you familiar with Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library and Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Requests? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:47, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe creating a yellow superscript that indicates the special status of the text? Because really some sources may even be inaccessible to all except to the editor who posted it. Thinker78 (talk) 22:56, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
Request for comment on Wikipedia:Interviews[edit]
There is a request for comment on the Wikipedia:Interviews essay:
- Should Wikipedia:Interviews be designated as an explanatory supplement?
- Should Wikipedia:Interviews be linked from the verifiability policy?
- Should Wikipedia:Interviews be linked from the no original research policy?
- Should Wikipedia:Interviews be linked from the identifying reliable sources guideline?
- Should Wikipedia:Interviews be linked from the notability guideline?
If you are interested, please participate at Wikipedia talk:Interviews#RfC: Explanatory supplement and links from policies and guidelines. Thanks. — Newslinger talk 18:43, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- This request for comment has been withdrawn. Thank you for your feedback. — Newslinger talk 07:26, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
Extreme negative outliers[edit]
On WP:EXCEPTIONAL and WP:FRINGE, I don't see discussion of consequences of extreme negative outliers. (Think negative 'black swans'). Did I miss that?
What if 'mainstream' narrative is wrong and consequence of that error is enormous and negative? How does WP responsibly deal with that possibility? Humanengr (talk) 03:45, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- We report such possibilities to the extent they have been discussed in reliable sources. We do not make our own assessments. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:49, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- A black swan would — by definition — not be covered by RS; a grey swan would at best be given short shrift. Which brings us into a conundrum, given that the possibility of black swans and gray swans is RS.
- WP policy as it stands stacks the deck irretrievably in denial, precluding mention of enormous negative consequences should the mainstream so-called 'reliable' narrative be mistaken. How can we best address that? Where should that discussion take place? Humanengr (talk) 04:10, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- For proposing major changes in core Wikipedia policies, Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) is probably the place to start. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 12:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Small technical change to wording[edit]
This page sometimes refers to "third-party" sources, but we actually mean "independent" sources. The difference can be illustrated in these examples:
- Bob sues Alice. If Alice loses, Alice's insurance company will pay the resulting damages.
- Bob = first party, Alice = second party, Alice's insurance company = third party.
- Chris, Joe and Paul are campaigning to win a political office. Paul Politician insults Joe. Chris is a "third party" – he did not attack anyone, and he was not attacked – but he stands to benefit from the situation.
We would not accept Alice's insurance company or Chris as a desirable source (for most general statements), because they're not the sort of disinterested, uninvolved ("independent") sources that we prefer, even though they're formally a "third party". I therefore think that this page will be clearer if we swap the wording to "independent sources" (at least for me and my fellow dictionary-reading pedants. ;-)
If there are no objections, then I'll make the change another day, or anyone who gets to it before I can is welcome to do so. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:44, 8 November 2018 (UTC)