Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Schools

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WikiProject Schools (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.
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Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference[edit]

Anyone care to comment on my proposal at Talk:Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference#List of schools?

Speedy deletion of British International School Lagos[edit]

Hi! I found that an admin did an A7 of the school article British International School Lagos. I am able to retrieve the contents. Here they are:

'''British International School Lagos''' ('''BIS''') is a British international school in Oniru Private Estate in [[Victoria Island (Lagos)|Victoria Island]], [[Lagos]], [[Nigeria]].<ref>"[ Contact Us]." British International School Lagos. Retrieved on May 1, 2015. "1 Landbridge Avenue Oniru Private Estate P.O. Box 75133 Victoria Island Lagos, Nigeria"</ref> It opened in September 2001. The school's students include Nigerians and foreigners and range in age from 11 to 18.<ref>"[ About BIS]." British International School Lagos. Retrieved on May 1, 2015.</ref> The school includes a boarding facility.<ref>"[ Boarding]." British International School Lagos. Retrieved on May 1, 2015.</ref>

According to school article common outcomes notability is presumed when the school serves senior high school/sixth form level. The text clearly says the article serves up to age 18. That means it does, in fact, assert notability, and A7 is not appropriate. I think the deletion should be reversed ASAP. If there are questions about the notability, please let an AFD take its course.

Whenever there is a question please use AFD. @Chrislk02: @Jamie Tubers: WhisperToMe (talk) 17:00, 8 May 2015 (UTC):

Let me review it real quick, I may not be up to speed on the notability requirements for schools. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 17:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
It's based on this: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Common_outcomes#Schools: "Most independently accredited degree-awarding institutions and high schools are being kept except when zero independent sources can be found to prove that the institution actually exists." @Chrislk02: WhisperToMe (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I reviewed the article, the above link you provided, and other relevant information. First off, the link you provide WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is clearly stated as an Essay, and not a substitute for an assertion of notability. Secondly, I reviewed WP:NSCHOOL which says that is must meet the notability requirements of WP:ORG (which it CLEARLY does not). I guess for some unknown reason, a 3 line article about a school only citing itself, nowhere in the article stating why it is notable is exempt from WP:A7, so you will have to forgive me as I have speedy deleted many many other articles with far more content than this. I will undelete it and leave it at AFD. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 17:22, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I reversed my early close, but strongly disagree with the above statement which you cite from an essay that says "...notability is presumed...". WP:NSCHOOL clearly says that they must adhere to WP:ORG which it blatantly fails. The article is 3 lines long, citing only its website, and in no way provides even a modicum of evidence why it is more than a building, in a foreign country, that people spend time in. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 17:35, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Chrislk02: I found a source which gives some information on the school's German curriculum program and I'll add it shortly. Anyway, Chris, I think it may help to consider why the common outcome is "keep" even if the articles only have enough citations to establish their existence, rather than enough to satisfy WP:ORG. In other words, even though the page is technically just an "essay" it reflects the actual practice of the editors on Wikipedia. Do you want me to try to find some sample high school AFDs? Maybe looking at the arguments may help clarify the matter. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
The problem that I am concerned with is a "turn the other way" mentality. Just because it is the way that it happens most of the time does not mean it is the best thing overall for the project (There are many times in history where the "status quo" was overturned based on a principle (think suffrage, slavery as extreme examples). In the cases I mention, somebody said "I know this is the way things are done, but, based on this principle (e.g. equal human rights), it should be changed." At the end of the day, the content in that article is un encyclopedic, per the WP:DUCK test application of WP:NOTABILITY (the underlying principle based on the identity of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia). I read your additions, and trust me, props for going to the work to find them, but at the end of the day, if I were to show somebody that article and say "Did it come from an encyclopedia", or "from the summary of a PTA meeting", I suspect many people would select the latter. That a school had a difficulty finding a german teacher with the potential that the German classes would have to be cancelled is not encyclopedic, regardless of whether prior articles on schools have been kept or deleted? Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 18:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
@Chrislk02: IMO if you think the whole practice of keeping these high school articles is flawed, it may be best to start a village pump discussion or a sort of wider discussion in the WP:Common outcomes page. Otherwise other editors who are accustomed to seeing these articles generally be a part of the encyclopedia for years and years will be asking questions. There are cases where a subject is "automautically presumed notable" and the AFD is treated as being negative. Consider Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Northern_Mariana_Islands_Department_of_Public_Safety as a similar example. This was the state of the article when it was AFD'ed.
I went ahead and did a search for high school AFDs. They largely stopped after 2010. There was one case where a public school was merged into the larger school district: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creekside High School (Utah) (2013) but "common outcomes" was invoked here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chittaranjan English Medium high school. This cases ended as a no consensus: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oakhill Christian School
"That a school had a difficulty finding a german teacher with the potential that the German classes would have to be cancelled is not encyclopedic, regardless of whether prior articles on schools have been kept or deleted?" - The source of that statement is from a German nonfiction book, which I presume is academic. This sourcing automatically reflects notability and counts towards WP:GNG.
WhisperToMe (talk) 18:27, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Not all content in books are notable. I have brought this up at village pump as you suggested to get clarification. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 18:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Everybody please take a look at this village pump discussion. This may have implications for many articles concerning this WikiProject. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Please help[edit]

I don't know anything about this project, but reviewing articles about schools and continually tagging them for no references and issues related to biographies of living persons is starting to wear on me. Doesn't there have to be a reference for every claim for notable alumni? A list of staff? How does a school article get through the creation process with no sources whatsoever? I use STIki, a editing difference, semi-automated program that continually alerts me to school articles with few to no references. I am tired of nominating these for deletion because it seems as if this WikiProject lets anyone create an article with questionable notability and few references. What do you want me to do when I find a school article with no references? What do you want me to do when I find a school article containing names of living people with no references? I really want to help, but don't know how to proceed. Please don't tell me to find references on schools, I would rather drink all the water out of my fishtank. I've read the archives of past discussions on this topic and the water is even muddier (but not in my fishtank). Best Regards,

  Bfpage |leave a message  22:54, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Don't nominate the article for deletion just because you don't want to find the references yourself. (Secondary schools are deemed to be notable by default so they will not be deleted.) I'd say, continue to tag articles with no references, or leave that to someone else. Delete any alumni who are not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article of their own. I think the convention has been that is is sufficient to just wikilink to their article. -- Alarics (talk) 08:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Sound advice, See also:WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Adding to the above, feel free to also delete any student and staff names except the head of the school (usually the principal in the US) and anyone that is WP:N. Naming a bunch of names of NN people is out of guideline for school articles. And Alarics is mainly correct. It is sufficient to Wikilink the articles as long as the article has referenced content tying the individual to the school. John from Idegon (talk) 21:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you so very much. I will do as you ask. I've come up with a custom message for those articles that are flagged with editing changes by newer editors. I let the editor know that I am reverting their edit due to the lack of references related to the names listed in an article of living persons. I thought I would share it with you here. No no Afd tagging from me for schools but I will tag with no references and delete content about living persons that have no wikipedia article OR have no references. Here is the message that I leave letting the editor know that I am removing content about living persons from their school article:
==(Recent edit#s# to School name)==
Information.svg Hello. I noticed that you made an edit to an article containing biographical information on a living person in the article: (school name), unfortunately you didn't support your changes with a or reference citation to a reliable source. Wikipedia has a strict policy concerning adding information on living people how we write about living people, so please help us keep such articles very accurate. If you think I made a mistake, which is entirely possible, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.
If you need help editing, please feel free to visit the WP:Teahouse. This is a question and answer forum designed to encourage you in your editing. Your questions will be handled in a friendly, helpful manner.Thank you!
  Bfpage |leave a message  22:49, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

United States education navigational boxes[edit]

Nav boxes have been set up for 200+ school districts in the U.S.: Category:United States education navigational boxes by state. What does a good school district nav box look like, and what helps determine when one would be useful? Many seem to have only a handful of links to real articles in Wikipedia; many have red links to elementary schools, which will likely always be red links. Example: Template:Henry County Schools --Hebisddave (talk) 13:48, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Contentious article on Newton Public School district -- issues of anti-Semitism. We need serious help.[edit]

I was hoping some folk from here might lend a hand on the Newton Public Schools article. There is an edit war going on between me and another editor concerning an edit of theirs. Their edit involves charges of anti-Semitism while I'm protesting that there's way too much space being devoted to the issue and questioning whether the edit is neutral. Before taking this to the larger Wikipedia community I was hoping some folks here might weigh in a bit and help calm things down. Thanks for any help. SQGibbon (talk) 15:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Please ensure articles on school districts and certain schools in the U.S. and Canada have articles in non-English languages[edit]

Those of us from the United States and Canada understand that our education systems absorb the children of immigrants and make them into Americans and Canadians. Part of this process is ensuring their parents know about their children's education and the history and culture of their schools. I have been making an effort to have articles on U.S. and Canadian school districts, as well as select senior high schools, translated into and otherwise established in non-English languages for the benefit of immigrants living in the United States and Canada.

In theory you may write about any school district in any language Wikipedia, and most Wikipedias allow articles on senior high schools. However it is best to focus on whichever languages are most relevant for a particular school district and/or school.

  • Some school districts operate sections of their websites in multiple languages. Determine which languages they are and either: A. start stubs in these languages or B. request native speakers to write Wikipedia article in the relevant languages.
  • Some school districts do not have special websites for particular languages, but they do post translated documents (codes of student conduct, permission forms, meal schedules, dress codes, etc) in multiple languages. Note which languages these forms are printed in. For example while the San Francisco Unified School District has Spanish and Chinese websites, I discovered that it also has documents available in many other languages.
  • Some individual schools have websites and/or forms in other languages. I found Detroit Public Schools listed brochures of individual schools. I noticed Detroit International Academy for Young Women had a brochure in Bengali and discovered that many ethnic Bengali girls attend the school. I asked a Bengali speaker to write an article in Bengali and he did so. Since Lee High School (Houston) had a large number of Spanish speakers I started a Spanish language article.

For those of you who know Spanish: It is the most prevalent second language in U.S. schools, so please get busy with creating and expanding school district articles on the Spanish Wikipedia if you are interested in doing so. There are large numbers of Spanish-speaking immigrants with low English fluency in the United States so Spanish is a very important language for school district articles. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:37, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

This is all well and good, but this is a project on en.Wikipedia and articles on other Wikimedia projects are beyond its scope. John from Idegon (talk) 05:34, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I do understand that technically other language Wikipedias are separate from the English Wikipedia. I had to consider what is the best place for a request generally aimed at U.S. and Canadian-based Wikipedians related to article writing. If the majority of American Wikimedia users regularly participated on Meta I would posted there. Since relatively few of them do, I figured that EN was the best place for such a request. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:42, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I think this is a good idea and that this project talk page is one good place to post it. However, I'm not sure my pitiful Spanish is up to this. How about posting links to sister projects, if any, or to a few good school articles in Spanish and other likely languages? Perhaps this should be a sub-project.--Hjal (talk) 05:58, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
@Hjal: - The Spanish Wikipedia doesn't have an education project, but it does have a USA project: es:Wikiproyecto:Estados Unidos. The founder is a bilingual English-Spanish speaker based in San Diego, California, named Alex (User:Alex357 or es:Usuario:Vrysxy)
The main directory for schools is es:Categoría:Escuelas de Estados Unidos while for school districts it is es:Categoría:Distritos escolares de Estados Unidos
An example of a Spanish translation of a high school article is es:San Diego High School, made by Alex himself
More examples of translations: en:Walled Lake Consolidated Schools near Detroit, Michigan, into Japanese and Arabic: ar:مدارس والد ليك المتحدة and ja:ウォルドレイク学校区 (based off of the fact that the school district published handbooks in these languages)
WhisperToMe (talk) 06:28, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I thought that we might want to look at good articles in Spanish about secondary schools in Spanish-speaking countries to consider as models. Of course, since our readers might live in English-speaking countries, we wouldn't want to leave out anything that we already decided was encyclopedic. I found a Spanish education project: Wikiproyecto:Educación and a template . --Hjal (talk) 06:39, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Thank you so much for finding that! I had no idea that the project existed. I'm now adding that template to multiple school district articles WhisperToMe (talk) 06:57, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
@Hjal: - It took me awhile but I added the education template to all of the American school district articles on the Spanish Wikipedia. I think now those articles make up a majority of the articles belonging to the Spanish education Wikiproject. BTW es:Liceo Mexicano Japonés may be an idea for a model. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:01, 15 July 2015 (UTC)