Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Schools

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WikiProject Schools (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.
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Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference[edit]

Anyone care to comment on my proposal at Talk:Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference#List of schools?

Lycée Français Charles de Gaulle[edit]

There is a single editor @Po Kadzieli: doing a excellent job here, working mainly from the French article: he could do with a second set of eyes. -- Clem Rutter (talk) 10:40, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

International schools and navigation templates[edit]

Hey guys! I am making regional navigation templates for international schools. I base the templates largely on how different agencies subdivide schools:

So far I have single templates for Spanish, Pakistani, Indian, etc. international schools (for countries which don't have as many international schools)

AFAIK I don't know of a single formal organization for American and British international schools. Instead there seem to be individual agencies focusing on geographic regions, so I will focus on making templates oriented around those agencies.

Sometimes the geographical designations aren't exactly the same. For example: The AEFE splits Latin America into three pieces. The ZfA has "Central America" in one zone and "South America" in another. MEXT puts all of Latin America into one zone. This is reflected in the templates.

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:02, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

As for reasons why I'm focusing on international schools this month:

  • 1. These templates and articles can be "bridges" connecting geographic regions together. Someone may find interest in an international school in, say, Lima, and then encounter a template that encourages her/him to find out more about the local Peruvian schools. Or somebody looking at schools in Brussels may encounter one of the international schools and find himself/herself looking at info about German schools in Europe.
  • 2. International schools are often studied by academics, especially if they have unique programs. Liceo Mexicano Japones in Mexico City is one example of a school with many papers written about it.
  • 3. These international schools often have broader interest bases: Both among locals in the city where they are located and expatriates in other countries.
  • 4. Some Wikipedias have much stricter notability policies on schools. Having articles in the English Wikipedia makes up for not being able to have articles in the native language(s).
  • 5. There is a possibility of recruiting students at these schools. I started Wikipedia as I entered the 9th grade (first year of upper secondary education in the United States). High school students at these schools are wealthy enough to have the proper equipment and likely have enough free time to edit Wikipedia, and I think high school's a good time to learn how to be an editor. In addition they may be fluent in multiple languages, allowing them to translate material and edit multiple editions of Wikipedia. They may also frequently travel, allowing them to take photographs useful for the Commons. As they grow up they may establish programs to teach other people how to edit Wikipedia, and this may trickle down to locals of the host countries of these schools.

WhisperToMe (talk) 16:19, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of British International School Lagos[edit]

Hi! I found that an admin did an A7 of the school article British International School Lagos. I am able to retrieve the contents. Here they are:

'''British International School Lagos''' ('''BIS''') is a British international school in Oniru Private Estate in [[Victoria Island (Lagos)|Victoria Island]], [[Lagos]], [[Nigeria]].<ref>"[http://www.bisnigeria.org/contactus.asp Contact Us]." British International School Lagos. Retrieved on May 1, 2015. "1 Landbridge Avenue Oniru Private Estate P.O. Box 75133 Victoria Island Lagos, Nigeria"</ref> It opened in September 2001. The school's students include Nigerians and foreigners and range in age from 11 to 18.<ref>"[http://www.bisnigeria.org/aboutus.asp?pid=12 About BIS]." British International School Lagos. Retrieved on May 1, 2015.</ref> The school includes a boarding facility.<ref>"[http://www.bisnigeria.org/boarding.asp Boarding]." British International School Lagos. Retrieved on May 1, 2015.</ref>

According to school article common outcomes notability is presumed when the school serves senior high school/sixth form level. The text clearly says the article serves up to age 18. That means it does, in fact, assert notability, and A7 is not appropriate. I think the deletion should be reversed ASAP. If there are questions about the notability, please let an AFD take its course.

Whenever there is a question please use AFD. @Chrislk02: @Jamie Tubers: WhisperToMe (talk) 17:00, 8 May 2015 (UTC):

Let me review it real quick, I may not be up to speed on the notability requirements for schools. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 17:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
It's based on this: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Common_outcomes#Schools: "Most independently accredited degree-awarding institutions and high schools are being kept except when zero independent sources can be found to prove that the institution actually exists." @Chrislk02: WhisperToMe (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I reviewed the article, the above link you provided, and other relevant information. First off, the link you provide WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is clearly stated as an Essay, and not a substitute for an assertion of notability. Secondly, I reviewed WP:NSCHOOL which says that is must meet the notability requirements of WP:ORG (which it CLEARLY does not). I guess for some unknown reason, a 3 line article about a school only citing itself, nowhere in the article stating why it is notable is exempt from WP:A7, so you will have to forgive me as I have speedy deleted many many other articles with far more content than this. I will undelete it and leave it at AFD. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 17:22, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I reversed my early close, but strongly disagree with the above statement which you cite from an essay that says "...notability is presumed...". WP:NSCHOOL clearly says that they must adhere to WP:ORG which it blatantly fails. The article is 3 lines long, citing only its website, and in no way provides even a modicum of evidence why it is more than a building, in a foreign country, that people spend time in. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 17:35, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

@Chrislk02: I found a source which gives some information on the school's German curriculum program and I'll add it shortly. Anyway, Chris, I think it may help to consider why the common outcome is "keep" even if the articles only have enough citations to establish their existence, rather than enough to satisfy WP:ORG. In other words, even though the page is technically just an "essay" it reflects the actual practice of the editors on Wikipedia. Do you want me to try to find some sample high school AFDs? Maybe looking at the arguments may help clarify the matter. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
The problem that I am concerned with is a "turn the other way" mentality. Just because it is the way that it happens most of the time does not mean it is the best thing overall for the project (There are many times in history where the "status quo" was overturned based on a principle (think suffrage, slavery as extreme examples). In the cases I mention, somebody said "I know this is the way things are done, but, based on this principle (e.g. equal human rights), it should be changed." At the end of the day, the content in that article is un encyclopedic, per the WP:DUCK test application of WP:NOTABILITY (the underlying principle based on the identity of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia). I read your additions, and trust me, props for going to the work to find them, but at the end of the day, if I were to show somebody that article and say "Did it come from an encyclopedia", or "from the summary of a PTA meeting", I suspect many people would select the latter. That a school had a difficulty finding a german teacher with the potential that the German classes would have to be cancelled is not encyclopedic, regardless of whether prior articles on schools have been kept or deleted? Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 18:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
@Chrislk02: IMO if you think the whole practice of keeping these high school articles is flawed, it may be best to start a village pump discussion or a sort of wider discussion in the WP:Common outcomes page. Otherwise other editors who are accustomed to seeing these articles generally be a part of the encyclopedia for years and years will be asking questions. There are cases where a subject is "automautically presumed notable" and the AFD is treated as being negative. Consider Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Northern_Mariana_Islands_Department_of_Public_Safety as a similar example. This was the state of the article when it was AFD'ed.
I went ahead and did a search for high school AFDs. They largely stopped after 2010. There was one case where a public school was merged into the larger school district: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creekside High School (Utah) (2013) but "common outcomes" was invoked here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chittaranjan English Medium high school. This cases ended as a no consensus: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oakhill Christian School
"That a school had a difficulty finding a german teacher with the potential that the German classes would have to be cancelled is not encyclopedic, regardless of whether prior articles on schools have been kept or deleted?" - The source of that statement is from a German nonfiction book, which I presume is academic. This sourcing automatically reflects notability and counts towards WP:GNG.
WhisperToMe (talk) 18:27, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Not all content in books are notable. I have brought this up at village pump as you suggested to get clarification. Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 18:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Everybody please take a look at this village pump discussion. This may have implications for many articles concerning this WikiProject. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Please help[edit]

I don't know anything about this project, but reviewing articles about schools and continually tagging them for no references and issues related to biographies of living persons is starting to wear on me. Doesn't there have to be a reference for every claim for notable alumni? A list of staff? How does a school article get through the creation process with no sources whatsoever? I use STIki, a editing difference, semi-automated program that continually alerts me to school articles with few to no references. I am tired of nominating these for deletion because it seems as if this WikiProject lets anyone create an article with questionable notability and few references. What do you want me to do when I find a school article with no references? What do you want me to do when I find a school article containing names of living people with no references? I really want to help, but don't know how to proceed. Please don't tell me to find references on schools, I would rather drink all the water out of my fishtank. I've read the archives of past discussions on this topic and the water is even muddier (but not in my fishtank). Best Regards,

  Bfpage |leave a message  22:54, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
Don't nominate the article for deletion just because you don't want to find the references yourself. (Secondary schools are deemed to be notable by default so they will not be deleted.) I'd say, continue to tag articles with no references, or leave that to someone else. Delete any alumni who are not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article of their own. I think the convention has been that is is sufficient to just wikilink to their article. -- Alarics (talk) 08:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Sound advice, See also:WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Adding to the above, feel free to also delete any student and staff names except the head of the school (usually the principal in the US) and anyone that is WP:N. Naming a bunch of names of NN people is out of guideline for school articles. And Alarics is mainly correct. It is sufficient to Wikilink the articles as long as the article has referenced content tying the individual to the school. John from Idegon (talk) 21:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Thank you so very much. I will do as you ask. I've come up with a custom message for those articles that are flagged with editing changes by newer editors. I let the editor know that I am reverting their edit due to the lack of references related to the names listed in an article of living persons. I thought I would share it with you here. No no Afd tagging from me for schools but I will tag with no references and delete content about living persons that have no wikipedia article OR have no references. Here is the message that I leave letting the editor know that I am removing content about living persons from their school article:
==(Recent edit#s# to School name)==
Information.svg Hello. I noticed that you made an edit to an article containing biographical information on a living person in the article: (school name), unfortunately you didn't support your changes with a or reference citation to a reliable source. Wikipedia has a strict policy concerning adding information on living people how we write about living people, so please help us keep such articles very accurate. If you think I made a mistake, which is entirely possible, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.
If you need help editing, please feel free to visit the WP:Teahouse. This is a question and answer forum designed to encourage you in your editing. Your questions will be handled in a friendly, helpful manner.Thank you!
  Bfpage |leave a message  22:49, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

United States education navigational boxes[edit]

Nav boxes have been set up for 200+ school districts in the U.S.: Category:United States education navigational boxes by state. What does a good school district nav box look like, and what helps determine when one would be useful? Many seem to have only a handful of links to real articles in Wikipedia; many have red links to elementary schools, which will likely always be red links. Example: Template:Henry County Schools --Hebisddave (talk) 13:48, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Contentious article on Newton Public School district -- issues of anti-Semitism. We need serious help.[edit]

I was hoping some folk from here might lend a hand on the Newton Public Schools article. There is an edit war going on between me and another editor concerning an edit of theirs. Their edit involves charges of anti-Semitism while I'm protesting that there's way too much space being devoted to the issue and questioning whether the edit is neutral. Before taking this to the larger Wikipedia community I was hoping some folks here might weigh in a bit and help calm things down. Thanks for any help. SQGibbon (talk) 15:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)