Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing

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WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of open wheel auto racing in the United States, with an emphasis on IndyCar racing, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Table suggestion[edit]

Fellows, I've been thinking we should just split the drivers chart between full season entires and Indy/partial season entries. The split tables will be better organized and it makes more sense since most of the teams are running the full 2013 schedule. I've come up with a prototype chart for you all to look at.

Team Engine No. Driver(s) Notes
A. J. Foyt Enterprises Honda 14 TBA
Andretti Autosport Chevrolet 1 United States Ryan Hunter-Reay[1]
25 United States Marco Andretti[2]
27 Canada James Hinchcliffe[3]
Barracuda Racing Honda 98 Canada Alex Tagliani[4]
Chip Ganassi Racing Honda 9 New Zealand Scott Dixon[5]
10 United Kingdom Dario Franchitti[5]
83 United States Charlie Kimball[6]
Dale Coyne Racing Honda 18 United Kingdom Justin Wilson[7]
Dragon Racing Chevrolet 6 United Kingdom Katherine Legge[8]
7 France Sébastien Bourdais
Ed Carpenter Racing Chevrolet 20 United States Ed Carpenter[9]
KV Racing Technology Chevrolet 11 Brazil Tony Kanaan
78 Switzerland Simona de Silvestro[10]
Panther Racing Chevrolet 4 United States J. R. Hildebrand[5]
Panther Dreyer & Reinbold Racing Chevrolet 22 Spain Oriol Servia[11]
Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing Honda 15 United States Graham Rahal[12]
Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing Honda 67 United States Josef Newgarden[5]
Schmidt-Hamilton Motorsports Honda 77 France Simon Pagenaud[5]
Team Penske Chevrolet 3 Brazil Hélio Castroneves
12 Australia Will Power[5]

And here is the limited entires table

Team Engine No. Driver(s) Round(s) Notes
A. J. Foyt Enterprises Honda 41 United States Chase Austin[13] (R) 5
Andretti Autosport Chevrolet TBA Colombia Carlos Muñoz[14] (R) 5
  1. ^ Cavin, Curt (15 September 2012). "Hunter-Reay signs two-year extension". Retrieved 15 September 2012. 
  2. ^ "Marco Andretti, the Twitterview". Pressdog. Pressdog. June 17, 2010. Retrieved March 12, 2012. 
  3. ^ Transcript – James Hinchcliffe And Michael Andretti Teleconference |
  4. ^ [1]
  5. ^ a b c d e f [2]
  6. ^ "Influx of American drivers could usher in a new era in IndyCar". CNN. March 21, 2012. 
  7. ^ [3]
  8. ^ "DTM and Former ChampCar/Atlantics Star Katherine Legge Joins TrueCar Racing Team". PR Newswire. Santa Monica, California: PR Newswire Association LLC. January 16, 2012. Retrieved January 18, 2012. 
  9. ^ "Carpenter forms own team backed by Fuzzy's". IndyCar Series. IndyCar. November 2, 2011. Retrieved January 12, 2012. 
  10. ^ [4]
  11. ^ [5]
  12. ^ [6]
  13. ^ [7]
  14. ^ [8]

So what do you all think?Gaeaman787 (talk) 18:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't really like it. I think the current format handles things like driver changes more easily and is more easily extensible to support series. I think it's also useful to keep all a team's entries together in one place. -Drdisque (talk) 17:38, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Do we really need a notes column? Isn't that just encouraging people to put all kinds of trivia in there? If there is something sufficiently noteworthy of mention it should go into the season review article rather than this table.
Why not one table for all entries rather than seperate into full series and part series. The results matrix will take care of mentioning which drivers competed full series or part series. --Falcadore (talk) 01:39, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Previous season have had split tables between the full season entries and the partial season entries. A driver change for a full season car is handled by making an extra row for that driver. You can use the Tooltip function to denote the number of races a sub driver runs. I also think we should get rid of the box color. Unless we're making note of something specific with the teams, then there's no point to them being there. The references will of course go in the references section. If it turns out that Legge is only running a partial season, but her car is running the whole schedule then you can use Tooltip to indicate the number of races they're running. Essentially, the IndyCar pages should be brought in line with the other motorsport pages on wikipedia to provide consistency.Gaeaman787 (talk) 21:35, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Other Wikipedia pages don't split between full and part season drivers. And the tendancy is to sort teams in numerological order rather than alphabetical. --05:42, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Then why are there differently colored boxes for the teams? Unless you're denoting engine manufacturers then there's no point to them. My concern is that if there are alot of partial entries, it inflates te box and clusters it. I just feel as though cutting up tables between the ful season entries and the Indy 500 or partial season entries is more organized. Look at the 2007 IndyCar page. Gaeaman787 (talk) 05:54, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Team Engine No. Driver(s) Rounds
Andretti Autosport Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 1 United States Ryan Hunter-Reay[1]
25 United States Marco Andretti[2]
27 Canada James Hinchcliffe[3]
TBA Colombia Carlos Muñoz[4] (R) 5
Team Penske Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 3 Brazil Hélio Castroneves
12 Australia Will Power[5]
Panther Racing Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 4 United States J. R. Hildebrand[5]
Panther Dreyer & Reinbold Racing Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 22 Spain Oriol Servia[6]
Dragon Racing Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 6 United Kingdom Katherine Legge[7]
7 France Sébastien Bourdais
Chip Ganassi Racing Dallara DW12-Honda 9 New Zealand Scott Dixon[5]
10 United Kingdom Dario Franchitti[5]
83 United States Charlie Kimball[8]
KV Racing Technology Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 11 Brazil Tony Kanaan
78 Switzerland Simona de Silvestro[9]
Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing Dallara DW12-Honda 15 United States Graham Rahal[10]
Dale Coyne Racing Dallara DW12-Honda 18 United Kingdom Justin Wilson[11]
Ed Carpenter Racing Dallara DW12-Chevrolet 20 United States Ed Carpenter[12]
A. J. Foyt Enterprises Dallara DW12-Honda 41 United States Chase Austin[13] (R) 5
Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing Dallara DW12-Honda 67 United States Josef Newgarden[5]
Schmidt-Hamilton Motorsports Dallara DW12-Honda 77 France Simon Pagenaud[5]
Barracuda Racing Dallara DW12-Honda 98 Canada Alex Tagliani[14]
This is closer to a standard wikipedia format. --Falcadore (talk) 06:02, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
Then change it to that then, and we might want to make a page for the DW12 since its all redlinked. Or we could have the engine manufacturer listed first then do the teams alphabetically. It makes no sense as to why Prisonermonkeys reformatted the NASCAR pages with the manufacturer first if this is the standard format.Gaeaman787 (talk) 04:34, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople[edit]

An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Aggregated racing driver infoboxes[edit]

User:Frietjes has proposed making changes to the various series-specific racing driver infoboxes ({{Infobox F1 driver}}, {{Infobox Le Mans driver}}, {{Infobox WRC driver}}, etc) to allow them to be embedded inside {{Infobox racing driver}}, such that a driver's article may contain a single infobox covering all the different series in which they have particpated, rather than multiple infoboxes - see Andy Priaulx as an example. You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at Template_talk:Infobox_racing_driver#addition_of_modules. DH85868993 (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Forsythe Racing[edit]

Hi WP:AOWR. I've just noticed a discrepancy regarding what year Forsythe Racing started:

  • Forsythe/Pettit Racing says "The team first operated as Forsythe Racing from 1983 to 1985...", but
  • in Héctor Rebaque, "Forsythe Racing" is listed as Rebaque's entrant for the 1982 CART season and the 1982 Indianapolis 500.

I'm not familiar enough with the history of CART to know which is correct, so I thought I'd just highlight the discrepancy, in the hope that someone here can resolve it. DH85868993 (talk) 02:31, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

It appears that Rebaque was teammate to Danny Sullivan who also drove part time in 1982. The car was entered as "Forsythe-Brown" in a number of races and the Danny Sullivan article shows it as "Forsythe-Newman". In addition Al Unser, Jr. made his CART debut at Riverside in a car entered as "Forsythe Racing" (the same car # that Sullivan drove). Perhaps Forsythe was just a sponsor, but that still doesn't answer the question as to what team this really was. -Drdisque (talk) 20:52, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

I asked some other people on the subject and consensus was that the team did run in 1982 [17]. Also found out that "Brown" was Garvin Brown of Brown-Forman. -Drdisque (talk) 01:48, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Drdisque. DH85868993 (talk) 00:36, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

2012 season articles needing work[edit]

Time for my annual post about incomplete season articles. The following series articles are little more than tables. Most of them don't even explain what they are, whether they are open wheel series, where they are held, who won the series! Apparently a series as important as DTM considers the point score system more important than the series champion.

The situation is also encouraging new editors to be likewise poor in seasonal coverage.

So while the majority of series are in hibernation perhaps we could spend a few days improving these articles.

Surely it would be more important and productive than arguing over whether Mercedes or Mercedes AMG is the correct terminology for a constructor? Less minuatae!

No mention of series winner:
2012 AMA Pro American Superbike Championship season
2012 NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing Series season
2012 Panam GP Series season

Series winner mentioned but no season review:

  • Indicates race summaries, but a lack of season review

2012 Formula 3 Sudamericana season

Thank you for your time. --Falcadore (talk) 05:19, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration[edit]

This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Wikipedia:Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:31, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Table cell/row merging - STOP![edit]

I am bringing this up here because it is an increasing problem in IndyCar race articles, but it also probably more prevalent in the NASCAR project. There seem to be some editors (most seem unregistered) who are turning race result tables (and other tables) totally upside-down by merging rows and cells. It makes the tables look terrible, hard to read, merges irrelevant data, and makes them very difficult to edit for future reasons. I have no idea what people are thinking do this. For instance, they are merging cells for a driver who wins a race back-to-back years, merging laps/miles, car makes that happened to win in . See this for an example. Some are much worse than this one.

I think it should be stopped immediately, and in fact reverted to un-merge all the cells. The reasoning is that each line represents a totally different event. What happened in one year is totally unrelated to the next. Each line should be complete of its information. The fact that a car make won two years in a row is merely coincidental to the makeup of the table. It also makes it difficult for the reader to see that they are separate events each year, and one might not be able to tell easily that 2-3-4 or more races are represented. While the skill of complex table syntax might be impressive, it has no place here. The only place where some cells could be mereged would be "twin" races, like Texas had

Agree - I have reverted it every time I've seen it as well. Unfortunately whoever is doing this hops from IP to IP and won't engage in any sort of dialogue. -Drdisque (talk) 23:07, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree too. Royalbroil 00:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
They've been doing it to Formula One articles as well - we've been reverting it there too. DH85868993 (talk) 11:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Good job, folks! --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
  • After wrestling with the API to check for collateral damage since the range contributions tool appears to be down, I've rangeblocked and for a month. - The Bushranger One ping only 21:18, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
  • And now that the range contributions tool is up, a check for collateral damage (very little if any) results in a rangeblock for - The Bushranger One ping only 20:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Another obvious sock puppet Special:contributions/, but it appears to be old edits. DoctorindyTalk 14:13, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

He's back[edit]

Just in time for race week: Special:contributions/ DoctorindyTalk 22:39, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

A very strange edit this time. It appears Special:Contributions/ reverted Sprint Unlimited to a version he created (had saved?) from back in mid 2013. DoctorindyTalk

Discussion about the "National Championships" and "Wins"[edit]

I started a little discussion HERE regarding what should be done in this project, and how we should once and for all, nuke the Haresnape & Means and Russ Catlin "fantasy champs" from recorded history once and for all. Doctorindy (talk) 14:33, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Track Map[edit]

A general request regarding this basic track map of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Indianapolis Motor Speedway - Speedway.svg

This really is a terrible schematic of the track. It's lopsided, not to scale, and the turns are crooked. Putting a suggestion out there for anyone that has the ability to create a new, cleaner, perhaps more detailed version, replacing this insufficient old one. Doctorindy (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2013 (UTC)


I took a stab at sketching a new track map of IMS. It's very basic, but not skewed and lopsided. I'm going to try and replace some of the prominent pages that use the old svg file. DoctorindyTalk 15:22, 16 May 2014 (UTC)



File:Boillot1914Indy.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 11:45, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

National Flags on AOWR seasons pages[edit]

I'm curious for the purpose of standardization if the national flags for each race should or should not be in the driver standings section. For example, the flags are present on both the top and bottom of the Standings in 2013 IndyCar Series season but have recently been edited to only be the bottom in the 1985-1987 seasons (1986 IndyCar season) Asher413 (talk) 15:09, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Proposing updated template[edit]

I'm proposing this updated template to update the wording of the series to reflect current name and to update photo (other photo recommendations gladly considered)

WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of open wheel Indy car racing in the United States. on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.

Let me know if you have any feedback. -Drdisque (talk) 05:10, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'd specify "Indy car racing", as that (despite the piped link) makes it look like Champ Cars, CART, USAC etc. aren't included. - The Bushranger One ping only 06:55, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
That's how it's currently specified. All I did was remove ", with an emphasis on the Indy Racing League IndyCar Series, including Champ Car". We could leave the former wording, but remove the words "Indy Racing League"? However, that would make it look like that we are saying that the IndyCar Series includes Champ Car, which is confusing. -Drdisque (talk) 14:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
The proposed changes makes it looks like sprint cars and midget cars / drivers are not included. How about change the original statement from ", with an emphasis on the Indy Racing League IndyCar Series, including Champ Car" to ", with an emphasis on the Indy car racing"? Then the template emphasizes all of the Indy car series plus the series that historically lead up to the big cars. Royalbroil 12:17, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
I've updated the template per the suggestions posted here. -Drdisque (talk) 19:30, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
No complaints, and I like that we're now using a DW-12 photo to make it more current. Although I think Dixon's image was the one previously used. Perhaps we could use another car, perhaps the most recent champion. Doctorindy (talk) 19:08, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
And of course, Dixon is now the current champion ;) -Drdisque (talk) 20:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Proposed move: Danny Sullivan[edit]

FYI, it has been proposed that Danny Sullivan be moved to Danny Sullivan (racing driver). You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at Talk:Danny Sullivan#Proposed move. DH85868993 (talk) 08:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

The discussion was closed on 15 September 2013. The page was not moved. DH85868993 (talk) 01:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

"Grid" and "Rank"[edit]

Hi, folks! In articles on the Indianapolis 500, I see two columns named "Grid" and "Rank". I expect one that mentions the qualifying results. Which columns is that, and what does the other column mean? Thanks! --NaBUru38 (talk) 22:36, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

"Grid" is the position they started the race in (determined by qualifying procedure) and "Rank" is how their qualifying speed ranked among the starters. Note that due to the Indy 500's unique qualifying procedure, the field does not start in simple fastest-to-slowest order. For example, if a last day qualifier had the 25th fastest speed but started 30th due to qualifying on the last day, their "Grid" would be 30 and "Rank" would be 25. This also takes into account when a car starts from the back due to a driver change (entry keeps its "Rank" but "Grid" becomes 33rd. -Drdisque (talk) 23:17, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
As rank is unofficial shouldn't it be removed? --Falcadore (talk) 02:22, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Where did I say it was unofficial? -Drdisque (talk) 02:59, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Why do you have to state it before the question can be asked? --Falcadore (talk) 04:36, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer! So, same question to me. I'd remove that column. --NaBUru38 (talk) 17:12, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm just saying that I don't think that "rank" is any more or less "official" then "grid". Both are matters of fact, not opinion. "rank" is just a less common statistic because in most races, the field more or less lines up in order of qualifying speed. -Drdisque (talk) 05:13, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
Grid decides how the race starts, rank does nothing of the sort. In think the is a gulf between them. It has no bearing what speed the guy in 12th grid position, 12th is as good as could be achieved, unless 11th is bumped out of the grid by someone on bump day which is also beyond their control.
One defines the starting order, the other is a quirk of statistics. --Falcadore (talk) 09:20, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
The "Fastest Qualifier" (i.e., the "Rank") is a big statistic at the Indianapolis 500. And it actually has quite a bit of importance as well with regard to Bump Day qualifying. A separate award is actually given for the fastest qualifier, although it's rare for the pole winner not to be the fastest qualifier, so it doesn't get a lot of press. Same for the slowest qualifier (an award is given), although it's rare for the slowest qualifier not to be 33rd just the same. When dealing with the Indy 500 qualifying, the "grid" position is irrelevant with respect to who gets bumped (speaking mostly of the older Indy 500 articles). Due to the way the qualifiers line up, you could be on the front row of the grid, and be on the bubble because your speed rank is last. In most years, the grid vs. rank is usually closely aligned. But in some years...1991 for instance...the grid does not closely align, and it was a point of news at the time.  Doctorindy (Talk) 18:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
As the details of bumping are covered in vivid detail in the race reports, and only 1st and 33rd are otherwise notable is it necessary to detail all of it? Text can cover first and last. Why rank everyone? --Falcadore (talk) 10:55, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Falcadore. --NaBUru38 (talk) 19:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
If you honestly want to go through 90+ race report articles to remove one harmless, but still factual column, have at it. I think it's a waste of time, effort, and worry.  Doctorindy (Talk) 19:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
I strongly disagree that "Rank" is unimportant - it is in fact, as mentioned, very important indeed. The objections I see here seem to boil down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
The importance of the statistic is beside the point. That is is essentially a fan stat is the point. If we could see the ranking refered to officially or in box scores (apart from individual mentions where 12th or 23rd is faaster than pole) then I would agree and desist. --Falcadore (talk) 06:02, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
It is not a fan stat. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:59, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
But if only 1st and 33rd are actually important, then what is the point of 2nd to 32nd? unneccessary detail that is never refered to except by table makers. --Falcadore (talk) 10:55, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
"The objections I see here seem to boil down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT" That about sums it up. And it is not the first time.  Doctorindy (Talk) 14:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Then you won't mind providing some references that demonstrate "ranking" the whole field is significant. --Falcadore (talk) 14:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Indy car vs. IndyCar[edit]

A lively discussion has raged on for most of the afternoon on twitter regarding the use of "xxxx IndyCar Season" when describing CART sanctioned championship seasons from 1979 on. We have found a media guide entry that describes the series as the "INDY CAR SERIES" (no caps so case is difficult to obtain) yet we found a newspaper article from 1994 that describes the series as the "IndyCar Series".

I'm more inclined to leave the title headings as is, but could see changing these entries to "indycar series" (small case as not to lock these years into a specific sanctioning body but still allow them to be part of indycar history proper) Curious of your opinions on the subject.

Link to 1979 Media Guide cover picture:

Link to 1994 news article

Thanks for any help guys!! Ehall317 (talk) 01:27, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The articles title are, in my opinion, incorrect in a contemporary sense. It should be, for instance, "1991 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season." I don't know who wrote them as "1991 IndyCar season" but that is wrong in the factual sense. A page rename + redirect operation is in order.
Variations seem to exist in official publications. I've seen it as CART/PPG Indy Car World Series (with the "/" between PPG) but that's not as common. The camelcase word IndyCar doesn't seem to exist prior to 1992...that's when IMS registered it as a trademark and licensed it to CART. Prior to that it was always two worlds "Indy Car" DoctorindyTalk 01:51, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
I think they should be "1991 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season". That is the name, the real name IMO. And for those oddly reluctant to recognize the sponsor name in that, note that all of the NASCAR season articles are 19XX Winston Cup season" (not 19xx NASCAR season). DoctorindyTalk 01:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Maybe it could be 1991 CART season, but that seems a little oversimplified. And it would cause some complications since they are already used as re-direct pages. DoctorindyTalk 01:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
For the record, I've noticed they've been like that for a long time. I don't know who re-named them that, and I know I didn't do it. DoctorindyTalk 01:59, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
With regards to who renamed the articles: As an example, User:Hippopotamus (who hasn't edited since 2009) moved 1991 PPG Indy Car World Series season to 1991 IndyCar season on 21 May 2009, referencing this discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 02:08, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Possibly pertaining to this: ive noticed the non-championship AAA seasons have been red linked with the data moved to the talk pages. I may have missed the discussion, but is this what the community is wanting? I was surprised they got moved, but didn't put up a fight over it.Ehall317 (talk) 02:10, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
I actually think those handful of season articles never existed. No one has gotten around to creating them. DoctorindyTalk 02:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
I would prefer to keep indycar in some form in the title for search engine purposes. I always have a fear of confusing the curious passerby with too much in the title headings. If we are cool keeping sponsors/sanctioning bodies I would prefer "1991 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season". As a caveat, I'm not totally sure when PPG left, so would the remainder of the CART/ChampCar entries need to be updated? Ehall317 (talk) 02:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
It would still be there because moving an article properly results in a re-direct page of the old name pointing it directly to the new one. So any search or link to "____ IndyCar season" for the CART years still comes up positive.. As for that 2009 discussion, I completely missed out on that one. There are some editors make up their own interpretation of what WP:COMMON means. One could easily cover all basis by creating re-direct pages comprising of the other semi-common but unofficial names. DoctorindyTalk 02:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Needless to say, I think the discussion from 2009 needs to be re-opened and re-evaluated. It's wrong the way it is currently. Note to move a page back to an old title required administrative help. DoctorindyTalk 02:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Ok, Those few AAA championships that *were* created have been reinstated as blue links. I must have missed that one, if it was you Dr., Thank you! As for reopening the discussion, I vote yes with an eye to revert the current titles back to pre May of 09 titles. I can understand the users concern considering the camelcase IndyCar is describing an era where this word did not technically exist. Ehall317 (talk) 02:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


I've come up with several alternatives, I have created a temporary, mostly-comprehensive listing here: Sandbox. The alternatives can be summarized as follows, with one selected as the article names, and the rest serving as re-direct pages. For quick reference, this primarily applies to 1980-1996 first (1979 is on its own, see link). The article names from 1997-2002 will need reconsideration, and that can come afterwards. DoctorindyTalk 18:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

  • 1980 CART PPG Indy Car World Series season
  • 1980 CART/PPG Indy Car World Series season (with "/")
  • 1980 CART PPG Indy Car World Series (without "season")
  • 1980 CART/PPG Indy Car World Series (with "/" and without "season")
  • 1980 PPG Indy Car World Series season
  • 1980 PPG Indy Car World Series (without "season")
  • 1980 CART season (simplist style)
  • 1980 in CART (old fashioned wiki style")

Revisit II[edit]

After consulting media guides and other pertinent reliable sources, I am going to move forward (if there is no further objection) and move to what appears to be the proper contemporary name for the articles...taking into account the name, and Wiki precedent.

  • "19XX CART PPG Indy Car World Series"
    • (with "CART", without "/", without "season", and with "Indy" and "Car" as two capitalized words. All other variations will be re-direct pages. DoctorindyTalk 20:03, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Phase 1[edit]

Completed "Phase 1" of the revisions. All CART season pages from 1979-1991 have been (properly) moved over to the accurate name as shown directly above. Numerous re-direct pages have been created based on the other variations. Pages from 1992-2003 will be re-visted next. DoctorindyTalk 16:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Phase 2[edit]

  • CART season pages from 1992-1996 are properly moved to the new article names.
  • CART season articles from 1979-1995 have been spruced up with new expanded headers. They actually tell a brief story of the what happened during the season, rather than the uninformative boilerplates that were there. Nearly done once through with each of those.
  • CART pages from 1997-2003 will be reviewed down the road.

DoctorindyTalk 17:58, 10 December 2014 (UTC)


  1. ^ Cavin, Curt (15 September 2012). "Hunter-Reay signs two-year extension". Retrieved 15 September 2012. 
  2. ^ "Marco Andretti, the Twitterview". Pressdog. Pressdog. June 17, 2010. Retrieved March 12, 2012. 
  3. ^ Transcript – James Hinchcliffe And Michael Andretti Teleconference |
  4. ^ [9]
  5. ^ a b c d e f [10]
  6. ^ [11]
  7. ^ "DTM and Former ChampCar/Atlantics Star Katherine Legge Joins TrueCar Racing Team". PR Newswire. Santa Monica, California: PR Newswire Association LLC. January 16, 2012. Retrieved January 18, 2012. 
  8. ^ "Influx of American drivers could usher in a new era in IndyCar". CNN. March 21, 2012. 
  9. ^ [12]
  10. ^ [13]
  11. ^ [14]
  12. ^ "Carpenter forms own team backed by Fuzzy's". IndyCar Series. IndyCar. November 2, 2011. Retrieved January 12, 2012. 
  13. ^ [15]
  14. ^ [16]

Proposed category rename[edit]

I have proposed that Category:Toyota Indy 400 be renamed to Category:MAVTV 500, to reflect the current name of the race and to match the associated article MAVTV 500. You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at the rename discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 01:01, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Sam Posey in 1972[edit]

Hi WP:AOWR. I posed a question a couple of days ago at Talk:1972 USAC Championship Car season#Sam Posey. To date there have been no replies, so I thought I'd advertise it here. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 04:32, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed change to wiki markup for motorsport results tables[edit]

Hi WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing. The wiki markup used to produce the background colour in most motorsport results tables (bgcolor="#XXXXXX") is no longer valid HTML and as a result doesn't work properly on mobile devices (no background colour is displayed). There is a proposal at WikiProject Formula One to get a bot to update the markup for all the articles within that WikiProject's scope. I'm letting this project know (a) so that you won't be surprised/confused if you suddenly see lots of articles being updated and are wondering why and (b) just in case you know of a reason why this would be a bad idea. The discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One#Bot request. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 10:21, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live![edit]

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Hello everyone!

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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Possible changes in results tables?[edit]

Hello all! Does anybody have an opinion based on what is being discussed here? --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 18:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Color scheme in the standings[edit]

Hello! Can anybody explain, why we use different color scheme, when we can use standard {{Motorsport driver results legend}}? I understand that American open-wheel series hadn't non-points placings, but don't understand the necessity to highlight finishes outside the top 3 with three different colors instead of one. Also don't understand for which purpose we need the different color to withdrawn. Corvus tristis (talk) 06:12, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

The Indycar table was developed by Indycar and/or NASCAR editors, initially because it was found to be unsuitable because US style of racing does not usually recognise the concept of a podium. Victory lane is usually reserved for one-driver only, not three. It was then expanded, recognising for example that classification extends to all participants in a race, not just to those who finish it, which is against the European style of classifications. --Falcadore (talk) 04:13, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Excessive use of colour[edit]

User:Lestatdelc has been adding liviery colours to Indycar race reports (example 2015 Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg). A practice that was stopped after discussion years ago. After pointing out the policy at WP:COLOR on the issue he/she ignores it and is prepared to edit war these colours back in on the basis that colour schemes is important information. Why it is important is not conveyed as every other motor racing article in Wikipedia gets on just fine without it. Perhaps there might be someone else with some input? --Falcadore (talk) 04:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't mind the colors representing the endplates just because it gives it more character, but from what I understand, it is not good for those that a color blind. So, even though I like it for personal reasons, we probably should do away with it.Fanofspeed (talk) 05:42, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Previous Winners and Rookie Denotation[edit]

I have noticed that previous winners are being denoted with yellow and rookies are being denoted with the color green. I am not sure why this is the case, but may I suggest we flip these color denotations as I feel it is more fitting for rookies to be denoted with yellow and previous winners to be denoted with green. You can see an example at the 2015 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach.Fanofspeed (talk) 23:57, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion either way, so I would appreciate your reasoning. Why do you think rookies should be denoted in yellow and previous winners in green? Why are previous winners and rookies given special denotation? Royalbroil 02:34, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure why they're given a special denotation. That's just the way it was when i checked it out last. I'm not sure who introduced it. The reason I recommend flipping it (if we keep it) is that rookies are already denoted on the track with yellow tape and numbers on the rear of the cars (yellow for proceed with caution). I think green for winners is okay because green means go and who goes better than winners?Fanofspeed (talk) 05:40, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
That's good reasoning and yellow for rookies is consistent with other forms of racing. Royalbroil 20:20, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Per WP:COLOR, these should not be denoted with any colors, but rather with some sort of marker that everyone can see. Tvx1 20:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Lapchart for AOWR Infobox?[edit]

Hi there, I'm relatively new to creating and editing Wiki articles, but I'm trying to create/update CART races starting with the 2001 season and when looking over templates and styles in other auto racing articles, I notice that the F1 template has a cool "Lapchart" function that shows who led the race over each lap. For example, on the right is the infobox for the 2008 Canadian GP, cut down to just the lapchart. As a n00b, I have no idea how this was done but I would really love to see the infobox for AOWR have a similar feature. Would anyone else be on board for this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocks with Salt (talkcontribs)

How about using this infobox and place it where you want it? It would only need minor changes at the most and Wikipedia is really into consolidating infoboxes anyhow, so we could request a change for us. RoyalbroilAlt 17:38, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Grand Prix
Race details
That doesn't work though. You'll still need to format an underlying template if you want to produce a lap chart for any IndyCar race. That's easily done, but the question is, do we want it. Remember that some IndyCar races have over 200 laps and this will result in very large infoboxes if you want a lap chart. Tvx1 00:09, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Season in progress footnotes[edit]

I have proposed a change to the wording of the "Season in progress" footnotes which accompany motorsport results tables which the season is still in progress. Interested editors are invited to comment at the centralised discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 21:55, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Request for input[edit]

It would be appreciated if other editors could please chime in on Talk:Milka Duno, where I'm attempting to engage a WP:SPA who is repeatedly attempting to whitewash the article by removal of all mention of criticism of the driver, and not having much success. - The Bushranger One ping only 12:14, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Tracks used in American Championship car racing[edit]

The tracks used in American Championship car racing since 1905 have been listed here and the Template:AAA tracks has been created. It could also be incorporated into the Template:AAA Championship Car seasons--Eman1982 (talk) 14:43, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

1973 Indianapolis 500[edit]

I'd like to request a fresh review both of the quality and importance of the article 1973 Indianapolis 500 (currently 'Start', and 'Mid' for this project, respectively). I've significantly reworked the article to be less storylike and more encyclopeadic, and added about a dozen references adding specifics where none existed or facts of the article were simply wrong. In terms of its importance, beyond the fatalities and injuries in the race itself, the race prompted an uproar so vocal that safety changes to USAC racing were passed three days later, effective one month later. A watershed race and article like this on the F1 side, 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, ranks a 'Top' in this regard, and I suspect this is of similar importance. Skybunny (talk) 22:08, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Additionally, although I know this hasn't been done in general, I'd like to suggest that 'Points' (USAC championship points) awarded in a race be added to box scores. I have done this by way of example in 1973 Indianapolis 500, but if people don't like it, that's fine, remove it. Points have meaning in the context of the season, and this is something (I know, I'm referencing it again, but), that F1 does. They also, as a rule, have a race by race 'top five points drivers' as of any given race, which shows the evolution of a season. Something to consider. See [[18]] and below it, [[19]]. While many early years aren't going to have many USAC races OTHER than Indy, for now, that doesn't mean that this shouldn't necessarily be there. (From 1950-1960, those points actually were Formula 1 WDC points, but those appear to be recorded as such.) Skybunny (talk) 21:12, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I assessed it at C class because it is greatly needs more citations from reliable sources. The article completeness / comprehensiveness is B class IMHO. Royalbroil 13:52, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

List of fatalities at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway[edit]

The List of fatalities at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway has been updated, depicting all deaths in the same newly created table; they are sorted in chronological order by default.--Eman1982 (talk) 03:29, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Article for deletion[edit]

Just a heads up that Rahal-Hogan RH-001 is up for deletion. Trying to get relevant input as it is part of this project. Discussion is here. The359 (Talk) 19:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Hod Preston[edit]

I just started Hod Preston and linked it as best I could, can anyone else fill in blanks and spruce it up? THANKS!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 11:43, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Rockingham 500 - Good Topic candidate[edit]

The Rockingham 500 overview has been nominated as a good topic. You can weigh in the discussion here. MWright96 (talk) 15:12, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

ITNR discussion[edit]

A discussion which may be of relevance to this WikiProject is being held ITNR, to discuss the status of Indianapolis 500 and Monaco Grand Prix on the ITN Recurring items list. Input welcome. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 08:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report[edit]

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing.

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We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

2017 Indianapolis 500 photos[edit]

Hello, folks! I made a long trip to the 500, and took some photos. I will be uploading them the following days. Have fun! --NaBUru38 (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

CART points system visual changes[edit]

Hi all,

So as I look for ways to visually improve race results tables, one thing that came to my attention was the Template:American Open Wheel driver results legend, which is influenced by the current points system used by Formula 1. However, for the vast majority of CART's existence (1983-2003), a slightly different points system was used. Unlike modern F1, which gives points to the Top 10, CART awarded points to the Top 12, and I think the AOWR results template should be changed to reflect that, at least in the applicable CART seasons. I've already done these visual changes on each of the CART season pages but not on driver or teams pages yet. What are the AOWR community's thoughts on this? Rocks with Salt (talk) 17:53, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

So for example:

Original Proposed
Color Result
Gold Winner
Silver 2nd place
Bronze 3rd place
Green 4th & 5th place
(Top 5)
Light Blue 6th–10th place
(Top 10)
Dark Blue Finished
(Outside Top 10)
Purple Did not finish
Red Did not qualify
Brown Withdrew
Black Disqualified
White Did not start
Blank Did not
Race not held
Not competing
In-Line Notation
Bold Pole position
Italics Ran fastest race lap
* Led most race laps
miscellaneous notation
Color Result
Gold Winner
Silver 2nd place
Bronze 3rd place
Green 4th-6th place
(Top 6)
Light Blue 7th–12th place
(Top 12)
Dark Blue Finished
(Outside Top 12)
Purple Did not finish
Red Did not qualify
Brown Withdrew
Black Disqualified
White Did not start
Blank Did not
Race not held
Not competing
In-Line Notation
Bold Pole position
Italics Ran fastest race lap
* Led most race laps
miscellaneous notation
  • It's a bit belated for this, but "top 12 finishes" is not a stat tracked by...well, anybody I can think of. Yes, the points went back to 12th, but while open-wheel racing tends to list podiums instead of top-fives, top-tens are the stat everyone uses across the board in motorsport. - The Bushranger One ping only 23:38, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Sources, sources, sources[edit]

I've been wandering around AOWR articles these past few weeks making aesthetic changes where needed and overall consolidating information as necessary. Recently, however, I've been running into problems in the 1996-2002 IRL years.

That problem is sources. I can't find a whole lot outside of When I added the Teams/Drivers charts for the 1998 season, 1999 season, and 2001 season, I discovered a tangled web of teams that may not actually be teams, teams that joined forces with other teams every season, and teams that I have absolutely no information on besides their names. Where do I find legitimate sources about Blueprint Racing, or Immke Racing, or that year where it was Blueprint-Immke Racing? It's certainly a chore, to be sure. At least Champ Car has this extremely helpful database that neatly consolidates and categorizes teams and drivers into one place. IRL/IndyCar doesn't really have that AFAIK.

Also, on a similar note, when I do extensive race reports for 2001 CART season races, the only definitive sources I'm able to use are from the old Champ Car website scraped from the Internet Archive. It's an absolute gold mine of helpful and interesting information, but when it's the only source available, it makes the articles suspect. I guess Wikipedia article guidelines frown upon leaning too heavily on one source, but unless more diverse sources come out of the woodwork, I'll stick with what I have.

In summary: SOURCES. Databases. Information that can be consolidated. Give me what you got. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocks with Salt (talkcontribs) 15:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Indy car wins article[edit]

An unregistered user did a substantial revert of List of American Championship Car winners, going back to a very old (2013) version, which was compiled prior to a substantial re-write. Based on discussion (HERE) and consensus, the wins list table was substantially revised in 2013 to reflect and properly separate the championship/non-championship races. This user is claiming the list as he wrote is "what is recognized by IndyCar", which actually isn't true either. It seems he's trying to use their 2011 stat book as a lone source, which while it is a source, it has been after review, considered suspect and brought into question by peers, given the fact that very little research was put into it, and it regurgitates known errors. I reverted the table back to it's late September form.

In addition, there are supplemental tables that have been added that don't seem to belong on that article. they appear to be WP:OR DoctorindyTalk 16:53, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

A ping: article work needed[edit]

I deprodded C. R. Crews, a late-2000s Indy Lights driver, that had been prodded as 'not notable'. Indy Lighs is kinda... *wibbles hand* when it comes to Conferring Notability, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt. The problem is it's deplorably referenced, and I can't find much, but I don't have much in the way of dead trees about open wheel from that era, so I'm kicking it here as something that may need rescuing by y'all. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:40, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Standard on Flag Icons for teams on season pages for Indycar/ChampCar?[edit]

Seems like it's all over the place depending on the season. My metric would be that the race team actually has facilities outside the US, not that someone who is Canadian or Australian owns, sponsors, or drives the team. So Carlin Motorsport is a British team, but Roth Racing was an American team (despite being owned by a Canadian). Jensen MotorSport has facilities in Canada, so they would count as a Canadian team.Froo (talk) 18:26, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

TBH, I don't think the teams even need it to be listed, it's hardly encyclopaedic information. I think it's only come to a head lately with the various press listing Carlin as the first British team in IndyCar. As it is though, IndyCar doesn't really care or make a distinction as to from what country a team is based or comes from; it's not an FIA series where the winning team gets their own national anthem played on the podium. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD {💬|✏️} 19:34, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing[edit]

I just found that Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing is mostly about the teams short F1 effort and has almost nothing about it's biggest successes in Indycar racing. It wasn't even marked under the scope of WP:AOWR until I added it today. Can someone more knowledgeable about the 70s' USAC period take a look at it? Pc13 (talk) 14:40, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Dispute about colors in charts on 2018 IndyCar Series[edit]

Can interested editors please look at this thread and chime in? --NeilN talk to me 20:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)