Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arminianism

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WikiProject Arminianism (Rated Project-class)
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Arminianism in the Church of England[edit]

A new article of mine that, like essentially everything else on the topic here, needs to be referenced carefully in line with current scholarly literature. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

New article[edit]

Petrus Bertius has a close relationship to the project: he was the only lay Remonstrant. But also plenty of other directions to follow. Charles Matthews (talk) 13:24, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Leiden after Arminius[edit]

If anyone has really clear references it could be very helpful. Arminius died, and Francis Gomarus left Leiden not long afterwards. Conrad Vorstius succeeded Arminius but was in effect excluded from Leiden. Johannes Polyander (Contra-Remonstrant) was appointed, and Simon Episcopius (Remonstrant) was appointed not long after (1611 and 1612, it seems). So two vacancies were filled with people on the two sides; and what I read is the that the Leiden Curators deliberately tried to balance two moderate figures (not really successfully). So what I'm looking for is a way of replacing comments that Polyander and Episcopius each replaced Gomarus (which random reading suggests). A better account could sort this out. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:48, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Remonstrants[edit]

Category:Remonstrants is filling up. I'd like to point out the Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie as a resource for Dutch theologians and others. There is a new listing up: see Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/ADB for an index to pages with the biography lists. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:16, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed redirection of Christianity subproject talk pages[edit]

I have recently started discussion about possibly eliminating the use of a separate talk page for it here. Input from any interested editors is very welcome and encouraged. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 22:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

A template question[edit]

Hello all! I ran across this on the bottom of the Arminianism page, and I'm wondering what y'all think about it:

This table summarizes the classical views of three Protestant beliefs about salvation.[1]

Topic Calvinism Lutheranism Arminianism
Human will Total depravity:[2] Humanity possesses "free will",[3] but it is in bondage to sin,[4] until it is "transformed".[5] Total depravity:[2] Humanity possesses free will in regard to "goods and possessions", but is sinful by nature and unable to contribute to its own salvation. [6][7][8] Humanity possesses freedom from necessity, but not "freedom from sin” unless enabled by "prevenient grace".[9]
Election Unconditional election. Unconditional election.[2][10] Conditional election in view of foreseen faith or unbelief.[11]
Justification and atonement Justification by faith alone. Various views regarding the extent of the atonement.[12] Justification for all men,[13] completed at Christ's death and effective through faith alone.[14][15][16][17] Justification made possible for all through Christ's death, but only completed upon choosing faith in Jesus.[18]
Conversion Monergistic,[19] through the means of grace, irresistible. Monergistic,[20][21] through the means of grace, resistible.[22] Synergistic, resistible due to the common grace of free will.[23]
Perseverance and apostasy Perseverance of the saints: the eternally elect in Christ will certainly persevere in faith.[24] Falling away is possible,[25] but God gives gospel assurance.[26][27] Preservation is conditional upon continued faith in Christ; with the possibility of a final apostasy.[28]


As a "Classical Arminian" or "Reformed Arminian," I have problems with it, a little on how the "Human will" part is worded but mainly on the "Conversion" section. I will quote from Pinson, J. Matthew (2003). "Will the Real Arminius Please Stand Up? A Study of the Theology of Jacobus Arminius in Light of His Interpreters" (PDF). Integrity: A Journal of Christian Thought. 2: 121–139. 

p. 133:

On the subjects of grace and faith, again interpreters have charged Arminius with holding semi-Pelagian and synergistic views that make God’s foreknowledge of a person’s merit the basis of redemption and that view individuals as sharing with God in their salvation.... Arminius believed that human beings have no ability to seek God or turn to him unless they are radically affected by his grace.

p. 134 (my emphasis in bold):

“...the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent, and (attenuatum) weakened; but it is also (captivatum) imprisoned, destroyed, and lost: And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such are excited by divine grace.” Fallen human beings have no ability or power to reach out to God on their own. Arminius explained that “the mind of man in this state is dark, destitute of the saving knowledge of God, and, according to the apostle, incapable of those things which belong to the Spirit of God.” ...Sinful human beings, for Arminius, have free will, but this is not a free will that has within its power to do any good but is rather in bondage to sin. The grace of God is the only power that can bring people out of this state. Arminius was not a synergist; he did not believe that individuals share with God in their salvation. Human beings are saved by grace through faith. This excludes human merit of any kind.

I think the very label of Arminianism as synergistic is a Calvinist calumny. Any ideas on how to fix this chart? TuckerResearch (talk) 06:31, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Table drawn from, though not copied, from Lange, Lyle W. God So Loved the World: A Study of Christian Doctrine. Milwaukee: Northwestern Publishing House, 2006. p. 448.
  2. ^ a b c "Calvinism and Lutheranism Compared". WELS Topical Q&A. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Archived from the original on 7 February 2009. Retrieved 26 January 2015. Both (Lutherans and Calvinists) agree on the devastating nature of the fall and that man by nature has no power to aid in his conversions...and that election to salvation is by grace. In Lutheranism the German term for election is Gnadenwahl, election by grace--there is no other kind. 
  3. ^ John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, trans. Henry Beveridge, III.23.2.
  4. ^ John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, trans. Henry Beveridge, II.3.5.
  5. ^ John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, trans. Henry Beveridge, III.3.6.
  6. ^ WELS Topical Q&A: WELS vs Assembly of God: "[P]eople by nature are dead in their tranbsgressions (sic) and sin and therefore have no ability to decide of Christ (Ephesians 2:1, 5). We do not choose Christ, rather he chose us (John 15:16) We believe that human beings are purely passive in conversion."
  7. ^ Augsburg Confessional, Article XVIII, Of Free Will, saying: "(M)an's will has some liberty to choose civil righteousness, and to work things subject to reason. But it has no power, without the Holy Ghost, to work the righteousness of God, that is, spiritual righteousness; since the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:14); but this righteousness is wrought in the heart when the Holy Ghost is received through the Word."
  8. ^ Henry Cole, trans, Martin Luther on the Bondage of the Will (London, T. Bensley, 1823), 66. The controversial term liberum arbitrium was translated "free-will" by Cole. However Ernest Gordon Rupp and Philip Saville Watson, Luther and Erasmus: Free Will and Salvation (Westminister, 1969) chose "free choice" as their translation.
  9. ^ Keith D. Stanglin and Thomas H. McCall, Jacob Arminius: Theologian of Grace (Oxford University, 2012), 157-158.
  10. ^ The Book of Concord: The Confessions of the Lutheran Church, XI. Election. "Predestination" means "God's ordination to salvation".
  11. ^ Roger E. Olson, Arminian Theology: Myths and Realities (InterVarsity Press, 2009), 63. “Arminians accepts divine election, [but] they believe it is conditional."
  12. ^ The Westminster Confession, III:6, says that only the "elect" are "effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved." However in his Calvin and the Reformed Tradition (Baker, 2012), 45, Richard A. Muller observes that "a sizeable body of literature has interpreted Calvin as teaching "limited atonement", but "an equally sizeable body . . . [interprets] Calvin as teaching "unlimited atonement".
  13. ^ "Justification / Salvation". WELS Topical Q&A. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Archived from the original on 27 September 2009. Retrieved 29 January 2015. Romans 3:23-24, 5:9, 18 are other passages that lead us to say that it is most appropriate and accurate to say that universal justification is a finished fact. God has forgiven the sins of the whole world whether people believe it or not. He has done more than "made forgiveness possible." All this is for the sake of the perfect substitutionary work of Jesus Christ. 
  14. ^ "IV. Justification by Grace through Faith". This We Believe. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Retrieved 5 February 2015. We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends. It is a message relevant to people of all times and places, of all races and social levels, for "the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men" (Romans 5:18). All need forgiveness of sins before God, and Scripture proclaims that all have been justified, for "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (Romans 5:18). We believe that individuals receive this free gift of forgiveness not on the basis of their own works, but only through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). ... On the other hand, although Jesus died for all, Scripture says that "whoever does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:16). Unbelievers forfeit the forgiveness won for them by Christ (John 8:24). 
  15. ^ Becker, Siegbert W. "Objective Justification" (PDF). Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary. p. 1. Retrieved 26 January 2015. 
  16. ^ "Universal Justification". WELS Topical Q&A. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Archived from the original on 27 September 2009. Retrieved 5 February 2015. Christ paid for all our sins. God the Father has therefore forgiven them. But to benefit from this verdict we need to hear about it and trust in it. If I deposit money in the bank for you, to benefit from it you need to hear about it and use it. Christ has paid for your sins, but to benefit from it you need to hear about it and believe in it. We need to have faith but we should not think of faith as our contribution. It is a gift of God which the Holy Spirit works in us. 
  17. ^ Augsburg Confession, Article V, Of Justification. People "cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for Christ's sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake. ..."
  18. ^ "Faith is a condition of justification". Keith D. Stanglin and Thomas H. McCall, Jacob Arminius: Theologian of Grace (Oxford University, 2012), 136.
  19. ^ Paul ChulHong Kang, Justification: The Imputation of Christ's Righteousness from Reformation Theology to the American Great Awakening and the Korean Revivals (Peter Lang, 2006), 70, note 171. Calvin generally defends Augustine’s "monergistic view".
  20. ^ Diehl, Walter A. "The Age of Accountability". Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary. Retrieved 10 February 2015. In full accord with Scripture the Lutheran Confessions teach monergism. "In this manner, too, the Holy Scriptures ascribe conversion, faith in Christ, regeneration, renewal and all the belongs to their efficacious beginning and completion, not to the human powers of the natural free will, neither entirely, nor half, nor in any, even the least or most inconsiderable part, but in solidum, that is, entirely, solely, to the divine working and the Holy Ghost" (Trigl. 891, F.C., Sol. Decl., II, 25). 
  21. ^ http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Monergism
  22. ^ "Calvinism and Lutheranism Compared". WELS Topical Q&A. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Archived from the original on 7 February 2009. Retrieved 9 February 2015. 
  23. ^ Roger E. Olson, Arminian Theology: Myths and Realities (InterVarsity Press, 2009), 18. "Arminian synergism" refers to "evangelical synergism, which affirms the prevenience of grace."
  24. ^ The Westminster Confession of Faith, Ch XVII, "Of the Perseverance of the Saints".
  25. ^ "Once saved always saved". WELS Topical Q&A. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Archived from the original on 27 September 2009. Retrieved 7 February 2015. People can fall from faith. The Bible warns, "If you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall" (! Corinthians 10:12). Some among the Galatians had believed for a while, but had fallen into soul-destroying error. Paul warned them, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace" (Galatians 5:4). In his explanation of the parable of the sower, Jesus says, "Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in time of testing they fall away" (Luke 8:13). According to Jesus a person can believe for a while and then fall away. While they believed they possessed eternal salvation, but when they fell from faith they lost God's gracious gift. 
  26. ^ "Perseverence of the Saints (Once Saved Always Saved)". WELS Topical Q&A. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Archived from the original on 27 September 2009. Retrieved 7 February 2015. We cannot contribute one speck to our salvation, but by our own arrogance or carelessness we can throw it away. Therefore, Scripture urges us repeatedly to fight the good fight of faith (Ephesians 6 and 2 Timothy 4 for example). My sins threaten and weaken my faith, but the Spirit through the gospel in word and sacraments strengthens and preserves my faith. That’s why Lutherans typically speak of God’s preservation of faith and not the perseverance of the saints. The key is not our perseverance but the Spirit’s preservation. 
  27. ^ Bruce Demarest, The Cross and Salvation: The Doctrine of Salvation (Crossway, 1997), 437-438.
  28. ^ “Many Arminians deny the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints." Bruce Demarest, The Cross and Salvation: The Doctrine of Salvation (Crossway, 1997), 35.

Jacobus Arminius peer review[edit]

Hello all,

I have nominated the Jacobus Arminius article for the peer review process. Here is the page for the article: Wikipedia:Peer review/Jacobus Arminius/archive1. I want to eventually get the Arminius article up to a good article or featured article level of goodness. TuckerResearch (talk) 05:46, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Decision Theology[edit]

I came across this vague, uncited stub article recently. I think that it duplicates the subject matter of arminianism and conditional election, among others I'm sure. It doesn't seem to have enough information to be worth starting a merger discussion, but I didn't want to stir things up by nominating it for afd, so I thought I would check with you all first. If the subject matter of "decision theology" is unique enough to merit its own article, it needs some serious work. I feel like a tourist (talk) 16:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live![edit]

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Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Proposal to move Methodism to Child Project[edit]

Per Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Methodism Jerodlycett (talk) 09:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Grace_in_Christianity#Wesley_and_Arminian_theology[edit]

The article and section Grace_in_Christianity#Wesley_and_Arminian_theology is all Wesley, no Arminius. Wesley's view on depravity and prevenient grace is given, but not Arminius's. Something I think we can fix. TuckerResearch (talk) 22:49, 12 March 2017 (UTC)