Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles

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WikiProject Automobiles (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Automobiles, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of automobiles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Saleen and Tata Harrier[edit]

Good morning, I would like to point out that I have corrected the Saleen and Saleen S1 entry by adding the sources and the acquisition of the company by the Chinese Jiangsu Secco Tecnology, if someone can correct any errors in the notes and grammar. And Saleen is a public company? Many source cite is a private and chinese!

also in Tata Harrier there are many Indian news sites and articles and I would like to know if they are suitable for an encyclopedia, many seem superfluous (for example the many competing cars that I eliminated). thanks and good job

sorry but in Tata Motors there is the "Notable Vehicle" section which seems useless and repetitive as already mentioned in the entry and the specific entries are already present.

Article for Deletion (AFD): Nivomat[edit]

Hello! I have nominated a small automotive-related article (Nivomat) for deletion, and wanted to let you know as it may be of interest to this WikiProject. Ganesha811 (talk) 12:58, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Hyundai Aero Town[edit]

Does anyone have sources for this on the model history? I am trying to figure out when it started becoming available, but there's very little I'm able to find about its history under English search. Graywalls (talk) 13:43, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

The Korean wiki says "Hyundai Aero Town was modified by Hyundai Motor on June 24, 1994 based on the U-MK117 / 517 model of Midi's Mitsubishi Fuso Truck & Bus Aero Midi, and trimmed with a streamlined design." Unfortunately it doesn't provide a source for this and the only archived links from the Hyundai page I could find lead to press release image pages with the text in Korean, so you can't even copy and paste the text to translate. Mighty Antar (talk) 18:21, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Electric vehicles Tesla, Inc.[edit]

I have just found a note in a responsible publication that Tesla which manufactures electric vehicles is now valued at more than Mercedes-Benz and BMW combined. Is this significant or a temporary pandemic phase or plain wrong? Eddaido (talk) 02:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

The crazy run up in the price of Tesla shares puts their value second only to Toyota. Lots of opinions regarding if the company should be valued so highly given the company has never had a yearly profit, the profits shown are often accompanied by questionable accounting etc. But none of that changes the simple fact that the market cap really is that high right now. What this should mean in the Wikipedia article? I'm not sure. The extrodinary share price certainly is a notable aspect of the company but recall that just over a year back the shares were $170 vs $1000. I suspect we will see big changes one way or the other in the next year or two. Personally I think the price will implode but I can't say when. I also thought it would implode when the shares were around $300 so it's probably best not to assume I have magical insight. Springee (talk) 02:54, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Adaptations for disabled Drivers or Passengers.[edit]

This Automotive Wikipedia forum currently does not include any information about the range of adaptations available for disabled people, yet it does include a sub section about electric vehicles.

I worked in the automotive industry for 45 years and for the last 10 I was also the voluntary diversity chairperson for disability within one of the leading multinational vehicle manufacturers, this was mainly due to my own son having multiple disabilities, whom I encouraged and supported to get through his driving test, he now drives a heavily adapted VW T6 shuttle using a drive by wire joystick system, https://www.paravan.com/ and a rear tail lift to access the vehicle, stage 1 modifications (base vehicle changes) by https://www.gmmobility.co.uk/

I Decided to add this sub topic having read on the VW transporter T6 wiki page about it being a common vehicle for conversion to a motor caravan, but no information about these same vehicles and many others being adapted for use for disabled people as either drivers or passengers.

The UK based Research Institure for Disabled Customers (RIDC) has an extensive guide to choosing a vehicke for people with disabilities, https://www.ridc.org.uk/features-reviews/out-and-about/car-search

In order for Wikipedia to be truely diverse it is essential that the area of vehicle adaptations for the disability gets more covereage in the Wikipedia pages. Many years ago I edited the disability pages to include vehicle adaptations, yet these were backed out, I still do not truely understand why.

Would one of the Wikipedia editing guru’s please get this new section off the ground and work with me to help build factual information to assist disabled people looking for transportation, as the motor industry & governments continue to ignore the requirements of the disabled compared to electrification of vehicles and disabled people will be further excluded from independant transportation unless they are very rich. e.g. the vehicle my son drives has approximately £20,000+ of adaptations fitted, this will increase as more electric only vehicles become the norm, unless awareness of the divide improves. IMHO Wikipedia can help bring this awareness about. Thanks.

Dbridge276 (talk) 06:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Have you seen Adapted automobile? Toasted Meter (talk) 06:58, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
And Wikipedia is an open encyclopaedia. If something is missing then we encourage you to jump in and add new stuff or expand old stuff.  Stepho  talk  12:47, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@toasted meter Thank you. No I hadn’t seen that Wikipedia section, I will have a good look, I think it needs to be a link on all the manufactures pages as well to promote the topic as every country handles it differently, it is a multi million $ business.

It’s quite amazing how little info their is in the public domain regarding driving adaptations. I once got an email from a US colleague asking about adaptations for a small car (fiesta/golf size) For a person with dwarfism in Columbia that a dealer couldn’t answer. After a couple of calls to friendly adaptation companies I know in the UK I was able to provide a product name and an America’s contact for a replacement pedal box that could be fitted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbridge276 (talkcontribs) 21:44, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Toasted Meter I have had a good read of the Adapted Automotive page and have added a few useful links to the external sechin and a few updates in some of the other Sections. Thanks for the link. Dbridge276 (talk) 23:12, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't think it would make sense to link it on the manufacturer pages, unless the adaptions are done by the manufacturer it seems off topic. Toasted Meter (talk) 23:42, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Whilst I would agree it wouldn’t be good to add links to Original Equipment Vehicle Manufacturer’s like Ford, VW, etc it would be appropriate to add links for adaptation or conversion comped like GM conversions, Allied Mobility etc.

If this is acceptable I am happy to start a list of UK Vehicle Adaptation companies and even some EU adaptation companies and include links to professional bodies that such companies belong to, which have a code of practise for these companies. I presume that these should be at the end with the other references and external links, maybe as a separate section “adaptation companies”.

2A00:23C7:D04:9A00:D4C8:6521:25F0:86D6 (talk) 06:13, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Shortdesc and car models[edit]

Hi, Just wondering - What should the short description (WP:Shortdesc) be for car models ?,
Taking Fiat Tipo as an example - Should it say "a compact car", "a compact car manufactured by Fiat" or simply "car model" ?,

Currently I've been using the first and second examples but truth be told I don't know really what the shortdesc should say,
Thanks, Regards, –Davey2010Talk 18:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

There's no hard and fast rules. I would have a preference for the second one (good information but 10 words or less is nice) but wouldn't complain about the others.  Stepho  talk  23:42, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Sorry forgot to check back here, Thanks for your help Stepho-wrs, I've since stuck with the second one purely for simplicity sake :), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 19:56, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Guideline or essay - WikiProject_Automobiles/Conventions[edit]

I have started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles/Conventions#Guideline_or_essay. Please feel free to join in.  Stepho  talk  22:27, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Will do. Best,  Mr.choppers | ✎  03:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

ASEAN NCAP[edit]

IqbalHakeem55 (talk · contribs) has uploaded rather large tables across several dozen articles with ASEAN NCAP scores, including some very granular data and large pictures that smell like copyvios. Is this promotional content? Is it important? Any opinions?  Mr.choppers | ✎  03:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Crash test info are fine, but for this case think it's too large and all over the place. I would suggest to keep this table only if the car is predominantly marketed in ASEAN and probably nowhere else. We don't need to know whether the Camry gained five stars in ASEAN NCAP especially since it probably had passed NHTSA crash tests with flying colors. I would say the ASEAN NCAP probably is one of the crash test with the lowest standard (or, the most 'forgiving') in the world. Andra Febrian (talk) 13:51, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Are you saying that for a vehicle sold in both N.America and Asia, the US NCAP is worthy and the ASEAN NCAP is not worthy?  Stepho  talk  22:22, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
That's not my point, rather ASEAN NCAP tables would be more fitting in Southeast Asia-specific car articles. Both standards are completely valid and worthy, but we don't need to be reminded a detailed ASEAN NCAP scores when the car is mostly sold somewhere else as it would be quite distracting. And yes, my point being 5 stars in ASEAN NCAP is easily obtainable still stands. Andra Febrian (talk) 03:51, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, your point is not quite clear. If a car is sold in both N.America and Asia, then are we allowed to show both NCAPS or only one?  Stepho  talk  10:52, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Vehicle/automotive technology - Wejo (company) article request[edit]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for someone to write an article for the company I work for, Wejo, who partner with automotive manufacturers to organise and enhance streams of authentic connected vehicle data unlocking its value for drivers, public and private sector organisations.

I'm unable to write the article myself due to conflict of interest, but I have submitted a request with a description and included multiple independent, reliable sources. Here is the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Applied_arts_and_sciences#Vehicle/automotive_technology

Wejo believes in the power of Data for Good - that's why we want to make connected car data accessible to even more like-minded businesses to drive innovations in safety, convenience and sustainability. Having a Wikipedia page will help raise awareness of the exciting work we do, so it would be great if someone could help me set this up.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Wejoltd. (talk) 08:05, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Sounds horrible, but I am a luddite with a privacy concern.  Mr.choppers | ✎  17:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
I appreciate that you've identified your conflict of interest, but "rais[ing] awareness of the exciting work we do" sounds more like blatant advertising than justification for article creation. IPBilly (talk) 01:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi everyone! I've now drafted the article, Draft:Wejo, which is waiting for review. I've kept your advice on blatant advertising in front of mind. Let me know your thoughts and suggestions. OH123 (talk) 14:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
To me it still reads like a press release. Quite good press release. But wikipedia does not really exist to become a repository for press releases. Apart from anything else, they generally don't age too well, and one tries, within reason, to "future proof" wiki entries. I tried checking out your sources, but they read like press releases too. Those guys have a good press officer / department. To make it look more "encyclopedic" - ugly word but I can't think of a better one - maybe you should google round the web - or check out the trade press, and find some sources that don't read like press releases. And to the extent they are notable and / or to the extent they can be made interesting, summarize and incorporate what they say (write).
Also, you could probably do with a bit more context. What business sector(s) are they in? Do they have any competitors? If not, that is interesting in itself. If they model themselves on some geeky enterprise in Palo Alto (or Duesseldorf, or Osaka) that would be interesting. Sometimes works: sometimes doesn't, but you could make it look relevant and interesting. Right now it looks like it's been drafted by someone whose hasn't left his desk in the corner office on some very small island for about twenty years (which indeed is how a lot of us feel just now....).
Success Charles01 (talk) 19:51, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


Article thought on Nissan Paramedic[edit]

Wondering on creating a Nissan Paramedic article. Thoughts? Ominae (talk) 08:42, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Citing Sources[edit]

I'd like to ask if citing the original download link for a brochure in self extracting format is appropriate or must it be reuploaded in the extracted pdf format ?

Also i'd like to ask on how to approach writing a vehicle's participation(by its manufacturer) in motorsports where there are only a few written articles left supporting its existence but there are youtube videos showing the car as well as magazine scans on facebook? The vehicle in question is the Toyota Condor in the Kijang Article and while TopCar still has some of its articles about it they dont have the magazine article posted online as in the facebook post nor are there pictures of the vehicle in the available articles online. TheBitterNoob (talk) 19:43, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

It would be little different from having the paper copy of the brochure or magazine article and citing those without a link at all. To your first question, the brochure itself is the cited work. I don't know if linking to a self-extracting file is okay from a security standpoint (that may be a question to ask at the WP:Help desk), but there's nothing wrong with citing the brochure alone without an online copy available.

It's generally helpful for sources to be available online for ease of verification, but there are plenty of articles where hard copy books, magazines, brochures or other documents are cited without being available online.

YouTube videos, unless they're of a TV program actually about the vehicle specifically, probably aren't suitable. --Sable232 (talk) 20:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion related to splitting the Chrysler article[edit]

There is renewed interest in splitting the Chrysler article. Please see the article talk page for details [[1]] Springee (talk) 12:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Wisconsin Motor[edit]

Does anyone have access to trade journals or old newspapers that might tell us the fate of this business? It made auxiliary engines (and for a while, earlier on, those of the Stutz race cars and sporting or stately Pierce-Arrows) for most of the 20th century and sold them all over the world. Eddaido (talk) 05:22, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Mercedes-Benz GLB-Class edit proposal[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mercedes-Benz_GLB-Class#Article%2Fimage_proposal

Please see talkpage discussion when you have the time, thanks. --Vauxford (talk) 16:20, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Made the talk page discussion less confusing, please read when you can. --Vauxford (talk) 00:14, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Darracq disappearance[edit]

Why would it be that readers suddenly stopped looking at these pages in mid-June 2020?

I realise its probably because the scales fell from their eyes and they found a better place to go but how do I find that better place so I can go there too? Eddaido (talk) 23:49, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Recalls and service bulletins[edit]

To what degree should Wikipedia cover recalls and service bulletins? My query is prompted by this edit adding a TSB regarding an issue that dealers are instructed to check and fix on vehicles that have not yet been sold.

Since the aforementioned example is a pre-sale concern that no customer will see I don't see how it's even remotely noteworthy and it should definitely be removed. However, I don't think this has been discussed in the past so it may be helpful to decide where to draw the line. Service bulletins are a common occurrence for any production vehicle and documenting them all would be impossible, so unless something is extraordinarily notable, I don't think any should be included.

What about recalls? I would question the value of including them unless they receive lasting coverage outside of automotive trade media. Wikipedia isn't a place to look up recalls on your own car, and with exceptions for severe cases (the 2009-11 Toyota vehicle recalls being one of the most significant examples) none of them have lasting notability. And without any significant coverage, all a Wikipedia article could do is list the recalls out, which would approach being an indiscriminate collection of information. --Sable232 (talk) 23:43, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Or to put it another way, does anybody care about service bulletins and recalls from 20 years ago? Everything we add today has to be thought of from the viewpoint of who cares about it years in the future. It would have to be a big ticket item for anybody to care, probably involving class action lawsuits, wide-spread mass media coverage, etc or something which effectively killed sales of the vehicle.  Stepho  talk  01:06, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Almost never should be included. A specific recall with no other context should never be included. Most notable recalls will be notable for something other than the recall itself. For example the recall of the Ford cruise control parts that caused fires or the GM ignition switch recall. Another example would be the first year Focus recalls. They were notable because there were so many, not because any particular recall was worth including. That edit should be reverted. Springee (talk) 01:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

List of Chevrolet Corvette owners[edit]

List of Chevrolet Corvette owners has been nominated for deletion. The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Article Assessments department, updated[edit]

Greetings, For WP Automobiles assessment, I added progression, pie graph, rainbow. JoeNMLC (talk) 18:07, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Fraud?[edit]

DB1
the replica of ?

In Commons there is a set of photos[4] claiming to be of an Aston Martin DB1. Somewhere else it is said to be a 1953 Aston Martin replica built for a Paul Jackman. Elsewhere it is said to be the car that won a then famous race at Spa in Belgium in 1948. Google says its for sale and vouches for its authenticity as stated in Wikipedia Commons :))

Is there any truth at all in this or is it just an enterprising fraud?

On the left is the real DB1 and here is a link to a picture of the Spa car It can't stay categorised the way it is now but how should it be categorised?

Does anyone have any verifiable information about this particular "Paul Jackman replica" car? Eddaido (talk) 08:35, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Clearly it isn't the Spa winning car... initially I thought it might have been the DB1/2L delivered without a body but from this article [5] it looks like it's a bitsa car built by Aston Martin engineer Paul Jackman, and was supposedly at one point wrongly believed to be a DB1. A7V2 (talk) 10:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
The silver car certainly looks like a stock DB1. The green car is a replica of the special prototype 1953 Aston Martin DB1 2-Litre Sports.
See https://www.supercars.net/blog/1953-aston-martin-db1-2-litre-sports-paul-jackman-special/  Stepho  talk  10:39, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
The Supercars story is unattributed. Eddaido (talk) 10:42, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Reports on the Aston Martin stand on different days of the October 1953 Motor Show are about the new DB2-4. There is no mention of any small car. Eddaido (talk) 10:51, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Ah, yes, looks I should have checked further. It looks very little like the real Aston Martin 2-Litre Sports. And the supercar article says "Story by Wikipedia", so we can't use it as a reference anyway. It does look a bit like a (replica?) AC Ace around the middle and rear but I can't say that for sure.  Stepho  talk 
@Stepho-wrs: - you don't think it's the same car as in the article I put above ([6])? A7V2 (talk) 12:06, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
I think it is the same car as the one at Goodwood, the "Sigma" special. Looking at this link, it appears to be number 17 of the 16 cars built. ([7]) but is clearly a very different animal to 'The Spa Replica' This link provides a chassis and engine number presumably given at the time of it's sale in 2010, so it's a rebodied DB1 that may or may not be fitted with the Spa engine. but I can't find anything online before 2010. ([8]). Mighty Antar (talk) 15:35, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
@A7V2:, it certainly looks like the car in your link. At the risk of making a fool of myself again, it appears to be a bitsa made back in the day. Not truly an Aston Martin but using some bits of the famous racer - among bits from other marques such as a BMW chassis. So I'd classify it as a private built special.  Stepho  talk  23:17, 9 August 2020 (UTC)